"Peacekeeper" vs "Thrown Down": Which is the hit?!

[joe68]

So what will be the first single:

Thrown Down

Peacekeeper

Neither One

Thoughts?

And what will the first video look like?

[Johnny Stew]

Well, apparently Warner Bros. is hedging their bets, and hoping BOTH will be hits.
Current info indicates that "Thrown Down" will be released to pop/Top 40/AC radio stations, and "Peacekeeper" will be released to rock stations.

They did the same thing with Stevie's 'Trouble In Shangri-La'... simultaneously releasing "Every Day" to the pop/Top 40/AC formats, and "Planets Of The Universe" to the rock stations.

Of the two, "Every Day" was the one chosen for the first video... but, in Fleetwood Mac's case, and given that Warners has released three Stevie promo videos in the past few years (not counting "Silver Springs" or "Landslide," since they were just lifted from 'The Dance'), they might opt to film a video for "Peacekeeper" instead.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if the pop single is the one to get a video treatment.



Johnny Stew

[BlueGrass]

"Peacekeeper" should be the first single. They sHould NOT release 2 at once because it will confuse people.

[Johnny Stew]

The record companies don't consider it to be confusing to the audience, because they assume people who listen to one radio format, don't listen to another.
And when it comes to making a video, they choose only one of the two to focus their promotion on.

Like I said, it's usually the pop/Top 40/AC single that gets a video, since that's the audience VH1 tends to attract (and let's face it, Fleetwood Mac MAY get some airplay on MTV for this album, but nowadays their biggest audience is more inclined to watch VH1... so the promotional campaign will be geared to that demographic).




Johnny Stew

[xhector]

PEACEKEEPER!!!!!!!!!!!

I definitely LOVE IT now!!

[Steve]

Johnny Stew, where did you get this information about both singles being released simultaneously? Is there an article or something?:eek:

[estranged4life]

neither...I think the record label should release a single that has both Lindsey & Stevie singing (i.e.-"Thrown Down") but with a more upbeat rocking sound (i.e.-"Go You Own Way"), Just my opinion...Brian J.

[jwd]

...I think the record label should release a single that has both Lindsey & Stevie singing

Brian I don' think this is the version you are going to hear on FM's next record. I think this is just basically Lindsey before he took the song to FM.....Stevie's vocals COULD still be on the track.


Joe

[estranged4life]

the album version, I like it just as it is now...I think it could make a possible single, Just not the first single for the upcoming album...Brian J.

[sodascouts]

Definitely. It rocks. Thrown Down drags a bit.

[ricohv]

I know we've rehashed our analysis of Thrown Down to bits here at the Ledge, but if Thrown Down has the most potential of all the Stevie songs on a 2 disc set (so that's basically one disc of Stevie) to be a hit single...HMMMM....that seems a little disappointing. I figured they were throwing us a crumb with Thrown Down and saving the big enchilada for closer to release date.

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by estranged4life
neither...I think the record label should release a single that has both Lindsey & Stevie singing (i.e.-"Thrown Down") but with a more upbeat rocking sound (i.e.-"Go You Own Way"), Just my opinion...Brian J.

Peacekeeper IS the new GYOW IMHO!
Sure there'll be a slight addition of Stevie vocals, but don'tforget TITN's first single, Big Love. Where was the ever important Stevie in that?? She's not needed like oxygen in all Lindsey's songs, just as he isn't in hers necessarily. This has certainly never been the case in the past, but I guess the whole "BN FM" thing has got people thinking everything needs to reworked to represent the same old harmonies in each song. That would get a little tired in my opinion.

[estranged4life]

"Peacekeeper IS the new GYOW IMHO!
Sure there'll be a slight addition of Stevie vocals, but don'tforget TITN's first single, Big Love. Where was the ever important Stevie in that?? She's not needed like oxygen in all Lindsey's songs, just as he isn't in hers necessarily. This has certainly never been the case in the past, but I guess the whole "BN FM" thing has got people thinking everything needs to reworked to represent the same old harmonies in each song. That would get a little tired in my opinion."

I understand your opinion & about the "BN FM", But I think to grab the attention of radio stations that wouldnt otherwise play "Peacekeeper" and/or "Thrown Down" I think they need a harder edged song...The radio stations in my area wouldnt play either if they were released as a single for exactly that reason...Brian J.

[seteca]

I'm hoping neither of the two, because I want the first single to be something COMPLETELY striking, like "Red Rover" or "Come". But if it HAS to be one of the two, I'll go with "Peacekeeper" because I think it's slightly more radio friendly than "Thrown Down" and it could have a very powerful video to go with it.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Steve
Johnny Stew, where did you get this information about both singles being released simultaneously? Is there an article or something?:eek: I really should have qualified my statement with the disclaimer, "reliable sources within the fan community state that...."
I tried to save myself a few keystrokes, but I shouldn't have assumed that everyone would know this isn't confirmed information yet.

Sorry about that. :)



Johnny Stew

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by ricohv
if Thrown Down has the most potential of all the Stevie songs on a 2 disc set, to be a hit single... that seems a little disappointing.That's not necessarily true. After all, "Every Day" was certainly not the strongest song on 'Trouble In Shangri-La,' nor was it really the track with the most "hit" potential. It's just that the record companies have certain demographics they try to reach and appeal to, and they choose whichever songs they feel will accomplish that. (Don't forget, they're trying to sell albums, not singles.)

Nine times in ten though, they don't choose the song the fans think they should have chosen.



Johnny Stew

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Nine times in ten though, they don't choose the song the fans think they should have chosen.Johnny Stew

Sometimes, I wonder if the frickin record companies even LISTEN to the radio..LOL It's like baby food....soft and mushy in a cute lil jar...with a baby face on the label....but it tastes like CRAP!!!!! GIVE ME SOME MEAT AND TATERS!!!!!! :laugh::nod::cool::D

[DownOnRodeo]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
soft and mushy in a cute lil jar...with a baby face on the label....but it tastes like CRAP!!!!!

lol, Someone's not a Babyface fan!! ;) :p :laugh: j/k!:wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by sodascouts
Definitely. It rocks. Thrown Down drags a bit.

Be still! Did you just say that!? Welcome to the right side where the light shines forth. :laugh:

[FiercestCalmSea]

Be still! Did you just say that!? Welcome to the right side where the light shines forth.


LMAO...even i have to admit...there is something that Peacekeeper has that TD does not...as much as i adore Stevie's voice and all...but i really don't want either to be the single..i think it should be something that is more of an attention grabber..

[Sorcerer386]

I have had a busy week, so I haven't gotten to download Peacekeeper yet. I just wanted to comment and skew a bit off topic...JS mentioned (I think it was him) that FM might be played on MTV a little. Well, according to the TV Guide, MTV is thinking of cutting videos down to showing only 10 per week, and repeating the same 10 over and over throughout the week. So, if this happens, I doubt we will see them on MTV. It's kind of upsetting, because MTV was starting to get a little more credit from me when they started playing things I'd see on VH1 -- best example is John Mayer's No Such Thing. But, it seems MTV should become MCTV (Musically Challenged Television). This is a really bad move, and I hope they don't go through with it.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Be still! Did you just say that!? Welcome to the right side where the light shines forth. :laugh:

Hey, Lindsey's my man! I've always dwelt in the light! I just spead my love around. :)

[Johnny Stew]

I think "Peacekeeper" is a terrific song, and it's now in my top 5 of the 'GoS' tracks (some of them left me underwhelmed... while others totally blew me away, and I listen to them frequently. "Peacekeeper" is definitely in the latter category).

Anyway, despite my affection for "Peacekeeper," I still think "Thrown Down" is the one that has the most potential for radio airplay.
Fleetwood Mac has been gone a long time, and... especially given the currently unstable political climate... people seem to be gravitating more to the familiar.
"Thrown Down" has that classic Fleetwood Mac stamp all over it. It's upbeat, it has a very catchy chorus, tight harmonies, and some great guitar licks.

Of these two songs, I really think it's the one that radio programmers will graviate towards, as it's the one that's most easily recognizable as being Fleetwood Mac.

Now, I'm well aware that the band has released offbeat singles in the past ("Tusk," and "Big Love"), but let's not forget that their biggest hits have always been Christine's tunes... every one of which, was perky and catchy.
Never underestimate the power of a catchy chorus, in regards to airplay.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one song is better than the other... I'm just going by my observations as a music buff.



Johnny Stew

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Welcome to the right side where the light shines forth. :laugh: I've always been happiest being on the left. ;) :laugh:



Johnny Stew

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Never underestimate the power of a catchy chorus, in regards to airplay.

In that case, "Peacekeeper" wins hands down. I was with you on the other points, but you lost me here.

Also, I think a song with the message of "Peacekeeper" might just be what the doctor ordered. If we get into a war that lasts, say, more than eight weeks, the public is going to get nervous about it, especially if there is street fighting and casualties on our side start mounting. As it is, enough polls are starting to show that at least 50 percent of Americans are not persuaded that we should go into this war.

[chiliD]

From what I read, not even 50% of the current ADMINISTRATION is behind going to war.

[stefan]

Interesting to read that, the perception here in Europe about the situation and mood in the US is completely different probably also as a result of the last election results several weeks ago. Well O.K. that`s probably not an issue for this thread, just wanted to share this information/thoughts on that.
Back to the song- I don't believe it was meant to be understood as a reaction to the current political situation. Don`t forget it's at least two years old. Nevertheless it sounds very related to now and this probably will lead to a broader airplay, if it`s musically good, what I suppose (Haven`t heard it yet)

[Sorcerer386]

Okay, now I've listened to Peacekeeper, and I must say this is very good, and I'm not a fan of Lindsey's writing. I am just hoping this is not the final product of the song. I hear A LOT more potential for this song to kick a lot more ass, and generally I'm surprised by the lack of instrumentation energy. It comes out somewhat during the final chorus, but it needs to come out like this in the other choruses, and then even more in the last choruses. There's also a lot of vocal potential here, and if this ISN'T Fleetwood Mac's version, I can hear Stevie and Lindsey definitely getting some belting done here. If they were to keep Peacekeeper as it is, I definitely have to go with Thrown Down, and even then I'd have to hear the final cut of Peacekeeper before making a decision. The only thing that irks me about Peacekeeper is the bridge and seeing how many words have "ill" in them. But if this is a good representation of Lindsey's latest writing, I will be pleasantly surprised and happy.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
I was with you on the other points, but you lost me here."Peacekeeper" does have a fantastic chorus, but I think "Thrown Down" has the "catchier" chorus of the two.

To me, it has the same feel as "Little Lies" almost... and it seems to stick with you long after you've heard it.

But, as Justin said, we've not yet heard the "final" version of "Peacekeeper," so maybe it's evolved into something with even stronger single potential.

Personally, I think it's excellent as is. If I were to change anything, I'd just add live drums, and some harmony vocals from Stevie (and maybe giving them some room to branch-off towards the end).
I definitely wouldn't mess with the tempo, or the general arrangement.

I guess we'll see soon. :)



Johnny Stew

[John Run]

I posted this in another PeaceKeeper Thrown Down thread and thought it might of some relevance here.

What makes people so sure that Mick, John, and Stevie will turn up on this song or some of the other Lindsey Stuff we have heard? Yes Mick played drums on numerous tracks and John some bass. However, to assume that every track you have heard will be reworked with contributions from the other 3 may be wrong. Numerous songs labled as Fleetwood Mac have not had contributions from all the members. Lindsey has talked about playing bass parts on Tango in the Night using a Fairlight Synth, and Stevie's vocals are missing from many Lindsey tunes on Tango. Some of the percussion and drum sounds on that album are synth produced as well. It is well documented that some songs on Tusk were Lindsey all by myself.

My point to all of the above. Don't assume that every Lindsey tune you have heard has been reworked to include all of the band members. There is much in Fleetwood Mac's history that says that may not be the case.

I think a lot of last 18 months was spent with the band producing Stevie's songs not redoing nearly complete Lindsey songs.

With all that said, I am sure some of the Lindsey tunes we have heard will have been changed and maybe even a sprinkling on the album of songs never before heard!!

[golddustwoman77]

Originally posted by estranged4life
neither...I think the record label should release a single that has both Lindsey & Stevie singing (i.e.-"Thrown Down") but with a more upbeat rocking sound (i.e.-"Go You Own Way"), Just my opinion...Brian J.

That was my thoughts exactly! I think that the single will be better received if it is a single that shows off Lindsey and Stevie's harmony, not a slow song, but an upbeat, rockin' song that will get people's attention with awesome vocals/harmony and kick- @ss guitar, bass, and drums! That would totally rock. :nod:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
"Peacekeeper" does have a fantastic chorus, but I me, it has the same feel as "Little Lies" almost... and it seems to stick with you long after you've heard it.

I don't know about that, Johnny. Of course, you and I could argue about this without ever giving an inch because we're both biased. What we need is an unbiased panel to solve these conflicts!

In general, when I think of all the Fleetwood Mac songs that have gotten some airplay, I would say Stevie's songs have the weakest choruses. Of course a handful of them have great choruses, including Stand Back, Rhiannon and Dreams. Take Sara, what exactly is the chorus in that song? Yet it doesn't matter with Sara because the song as a whole is beautiful. Or even Gypsy, quite possibly my favorite Stevie tune with Fleetwood Mac. Yes there is a chorus there, but what words really stand out? I'd say, "She was just a wish" and "To the gypsy that remainsm," but they are not a standout chorus in the traditional sense. Those Stevie songs are more about the overall vibe, not the chorus.

Strong choruses in my opinion include:

Go Your Own Way
Don't Stop
Tusk (not really a chorus, more of a refrain)
Little Lies
Everywhere
I Wish You Were Here
Big Love
Peacekeeper
Seven Wonders (as much as I hate to admit it, that less-than-great song has a pretty nifty chorus that sticks with you... or to you, as it were.)

[joe]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
...they are not a standout chorus in the traditional sense. Those Stevie songs are more about the overall vibe, not the chorus.



true...there are a lot of songs that don't really have any pronounced choruses...some of them are either instrumental or a series of chord changes (little if any vocals)or just nothing at all:

Sisters of the Moon
Straight Back
Honey Hi
Fireflies
The Farmer's Daughter
Never Make Me Cry
That's Enough For Me

I can't think of any others offhand...some are not really choruses but may have a la la la thing going on or a note that's held...or they're just plain and simple vague cause they seem to run right into the verses such as:

Brown Eyes (sha la la sha la la etc...)

Second Hand News (bam bam bam bam etc... although one could argue that "when times go bad, times go rough, won't you lay me down in the tall grass and let me do my stuff" is the chorus but it also kind of blends into the verses)

Gypsy (no real "chorus" although one could argue that "and you see your gypsy...you see your gypsy" is kind of a chorus but, again, it kind of just blends in with the other verses)

The Ledge

any others???

[joe]

i finally downloaded "Peacekeeper" last night. I really like it. I think it's a strong song musically. Lyrically, when i read it, i wasn't blown away at all but i don't expect that from Lindsey. I've never regarded him as a great writer which is ok cause it's not why he's here. He's a great guitarist and arranger and my first guitar teacher...i love his finger picking style and always have. you don't hear a lot of that in rock and roll.

Anyway. i like the song. I really can't get into these deep discussions about whether it's going to be the first single or what is cause i need to hear the entire album in completion. However, I personally think that "Peacekeeper" has given "Thrown Down" a sort of boost. I know we aren't 100% sure what songs are even going to be on the album but after i played "Peacekeeper" i played "Thrown Down" and i liked the combination of the two.
That's why it's easier to like a song when you've heard the entire album. All the songs influence one another.

[blinker12]

I think it's true that a lot of Stevie's songs don't really have recognizable choruses... but that makes it even cooler, IMO, that she's had hits with them. She breaks the mold a bit.

Choruses are common in contemporary pop songs, but they're not necessary for a song to work well.

A lot of Dylan's songs, for example, don't have choruses _ especially the early stuff ("Boots of Spanish Leather," "Positively 4th Street"). Yet the songs are still brilliant and catchy.

Also, the classic songwriters of the early part of the century (Gershwin, Porter, Ellington) didn't write "choruses" in the sense that we think of them today. There was repetition in the music and lyrics, but it was more subtle than what you'll hear in a pop chorus.

I'm not saying Stevie's in the same league as Gershwin (or even Dylan) _ she doesn't have enough musical knowledge. But I think it's cool that she doesn't "write to formula."

Just some observations.

[Sorcerer386]

With the point of choruses in Gypsy and Sara, there really aren't choruses too much lyrically, but musically there are, especially in Sara. If you put aside the lyrics to Sara, you really see that's it's not too much of a complicated song. Sara actually starts out with the musical chorus, as "Wait a minute baby, stay with me a while, said you'd give me light, but you never told me about the fire" is the same as "Said Sara, you're the poet in my heart, never change, never stop" and then there's added "but now it's gone..." But you can sing "Wait a minute baby..." right along when Stevie is singing "Said Sara," you just kind of have to find how it fits. And then, the chorus returns with "...in the sea of love, where everyone would just love to drown." It's subtle, but it's there.

I also think the guitar hook in Thrown Down is catchier...but don't confuse that with "better."

As far as assuming FM will redo Lindsey's songs, I don't think they'll "redo" very many of his songs at all. They may add or change a few things here and there, but Lindsey is pretty much his own producer, as we know. I just think Peacekeeper has more energy than Lindsey is giving us, A LOT more. And if Stevie and Lindsey are wailing at each other in this song, that'd make it all the better...it's definitely that kind of song, almost like The Chain or Go Your Own Way. Lindsey's singing is lazy on the version we have (he sounds a little flat to me), and for these reasons I'm HOPING they do more with it, but not assuming it.

[Johnny Stew]

Dangit! I'm starting to think I don't make myself clear enough when I write! *lol*

I wasn't meaning to imply that a song HAD to have a chorus, or that if it didn't have one, it's no good.

I'm just thinking in terms of what tends to stand out to people, and in terms of which songs Fleetwood Mac has had the biggest hits with. And with a few exceptions, FM's biggest hits have always had strong, catchy choruses.
Something you're gonna turn up as you're driving in your car, and will be singing to yourself hours later.

"Peacekeeper" definitely has a terrific chorus, and I love it... it just seems to me that the chorus to "Thrown Down" is the one that becomes a bit more ingrained in your subconscious.

I'm also going by what I *assume* people are going to want to hear on the radio from Fleetwood Mac, after all these years of them being away... and I'm thinking they'll want something that is instantly recognizable as Fleetwood Mac, and again, I think "Thrown Down" fits that niche a little better than "Peacekeeper."

But that... as always... is just my very humble opinion.

As for any biases... quite frankly, I'd be so happy to hear a new Fleetwood Mac song playing on the radio right now, I wouldn't care if *John* was singing the lead. :laugh:



Johnny Stew