Thrown Down: What Makes the Song

[CarneVaca]

I had not heard the demo of "Thrown Down," so this song is very new to me. I would not be surprised if this becomes the first single, since Stevie does lead vocals and the song contains the signature lead guitar sound that will be imediately recognizable. Or perhaps the label, after leaking this, will release some other song as the first single and thereby attempt to create more excitement around the album release.

Now, for the song. I like it. I especially like Lindsey's layered guitar treatment, which he used so masterfully in Out of the Cradle. The arpeggio during the verses, which has rightly received kudos on these boards already, the acoustic strumming, the muted notes and the sparse electric guitar embellishments are all tastefully done. There seem to be at least five guitar tracks in the mix, adding a nice rich texture to the song. I also like the Hammond organ in the background. I only wish Lindsey had thought of adding the Hammond to his sound long ago because I love that instrument.

The harmonies are well placed and Lindsey's voice is blending well with Stevie's The background vocals add a nice touch.

The song's weakness, and here's where I'm going to get targeted with rotten produce, frankly, is the lyrics. To begin, there have been way too many songs written about failed relationships, and this song is rather bland lyrically. It is very hard anymore to say something fresh about this topic. About the only interesting image in the song is the barricade being thrown down, which makes you think while you process that image in your mind's eye. The rest of the words to me are ho-hum. And I wish Stevie would use some self-discipline and stop using words like "baby." Her penchant for writing in the third person, to me, is a little distracting. Songs are most effective when written in first or second person. She does switch to the second person along the way, but it is a confusing, therefore ineffective, switch.

I like the song. It's going to be one of those that I will listen to because it sounds good, it has a nice melody but my ear simply won't pick up the words because they don't mean much to me.

Now, folks, jump in on the discussion, but remember, I like the song and I am not trying to diss anyone here. What do you think about the song?

[sulamith]

I really like the lyrics to TD, and I guess I like them because they are very "Stevie". I would almost call them vintage Stevie. She does use "baby" alot, but no moreso than anyone else. No Doubt and their "hey baby hey baby hey" lyric come to mind.
Stevie says "baby" like no one else. It's trippy and cool.

As far as the lyrics being based on a worn-out premise, well, you could say the same thing about Lindsey. His songs are always about relationships that aren't going well.

It's just what I have come to expect from them, and I suspect they will keep doing it. Failed relationships, angst, and longing will always be good premises for songs, because their will always be somebody who can identify with that.
Even if you are in a good relationship, most folks have had a bad one here or there, and there are even a few people who will always mourn the "one that got away".
It's just Stevie's thing.

You can't tell an artist how or what they should be creating. It's just like the people who are trying to tell JK Rowling that she should or shouldn't be doing this or that with the storyline of Harry Potter. I love her response. She said, "This is my story, and I'm going to tell it the way I want to tell it." Good for her, I say!

My mother is not a very big fan of my artwork. Oh, she thinks I'm talented, but she doesn't understand why I like to paint unicorns and dragons and jesters. She looks at it and says, "Geez, Sharon, can't you just paint a nice vase of flowers or something?"

No, I can't. I don't want to paint flowers any more than Stevie wants to write happy little love songs.
If you want flowers and sweetness, find yourself another artist, I guess. lol!!

[joe]

I agree with you completely. I LOVE Lindsey's guitar work on this...i actually wish the guitar solo was a bit longer...it seems to end a bit too soon. But the arpeggio you are talking about is what made me love his style in the first place. It was very surprising to hear that when the first verse kicked in. At first, I thought it was going to sound predictable but was pleasantly surprised.

I agree about the lyrics. When i heard that "Thrown Down" was going to be used on the FM album i thought to myself "yuck...that song sounds very boring..." I thought Stevie's best material was that off the wall dark and mysterious stuff including the lyrics. We all know that Stevie's lyrics have somewhat lost some "magic" in recent years and i'm sure it's because her life has straightened out quite a bit. Her lyrics seem to be interesting whenever she's referring to her past life or some sort of drama or trouble (ie..."Fall From Grace", "Trouble in Shangri-La"...)

She used to say in the past "you can't possibly write good songs if you're happy all the time...you have to be somewhere between tragedy and happiness..." And i've been thinking about this quote a lot lately basically because for me her music and lyrics aren't what they used to be. It just is what it is and that's it. I'm not saying this to criticize at all. It's just that there's an "eerieness" that seems to be missing and that's what attracted me immensely to her style.

Above all, believe it or not, i DO like the song. I would probably also like it a bit more if Chris was in there. Again, for me, she's missing in FM. But, we must soldier on. I like the "darkness" the finished version has over the demo version. I was surprised by that. The demo has a bland feeling to it so initially i was worried. But Lindsey has worked his magic. God how i love his style. I'm at work right now and i don't have access to hearing the song but i'm imagining it right now and all i hear is his guitars. I like the ending too with the guitars and alternate vocals going back and forth. I also like the second verse for some reason. I don't know the words offhand but i think it's the last line in the second verse before the chorus comes back....i think it's something along the lines of letting your pain become the darkness or something. Anyway, i wish she would go off a bit on that one. In other words, you know how "Planets of the Universe" is? Well, i love the extended ending to that song cause she goes off in that classic style. She needs to do that a bit more.

[joe]

Originally posted by joe
...her music and lyrics aren't what they used to be. It just is what it is and that's it. I'm not saying this to criticize at all. It's just that there's an "eerieness" that seems to be missing and that's what attracted me immensely to her style.



I want to clarify this because i don't want to be misunderstood and blasted. Stevie and any other artist creates what they want and how they want. When i or someone says "they should do this or they shouldn't do that..." it really is referring to how much more enjoyment we would get personally if we could custom tailer them to our needs.

Hope this make sense. I'm glad that Stevie and FM are creating at all. It's just that if i feel that there's something lacking compared to past work, i'm going to search out the past work to satisfy my "wants".

[joe68]

I have to say I love the melody of the song, but I also agree on two points: the lyrics are a little wishy-washy and I'm really not sure what she's talking about this time...
"You say you're sorry...
Now you should walk away...
But it's so overwhelming...
You have nothing left to say..."
Huh?

And, you're right about the comparison to "Planets". She just seemed so committed to that track, especially the ending of it. I think "Thrown" kind of needs that little kick as well. But I also know that Stevie has always "stayed in check" so to speak with the Mac as opposed to her solo stuff.

The one thing that really makes the song for me is Lindsey's guitar work. It's abolutely amazing and so his signature.
I love the harmonies as well.

I'm wondering...has it been confirmed that this song is going to be the first single?

[Mike B]

I like the "darkness" the finished version has over the demo version.

Me too! I wasn't too excited about the demo of Thrown Down and when I heard it would be on the new album, I was just "eh." But hearing it with Lindsey's magic touch - wow!

This song totally works for me. The <i>intensity</i> that Lindsey's guitar work added has just created an entirely new feel for the song....there is, like Joe said, a darkness, an eerieness, a sense of urgency in the song that wasn't there before. It kicks the demo's ass.

The lyrics don't bother me in the least.

The only thing I'm not completely sold on is the backup vocals. I guess it is Sharon and/or Lori, but their voices sound so high and "sweet", it takes the edge out of the song for me.

Still, I'm in love with the song and can see it as a highlight of the new album.

Mike B.

[joe]

Originally posted by Mike B
The only thing I'm not completely sold on is the backup vocals. I guess it is Sharon and/or Lori, but their voices sound so high and "sweet", it takes the edge out of the song for me.
Mike B.


yeah, i forgot to mention that. i'm sorry folks but i need to only have official FM vocalists on the record. Honestly, i hated the idea of backup vocalists even back in the "Tango" tour days but i guess that's the way it has to be. Now, they're on the record as well? I'm not wild about that. It's more like FM & Co. And the sad thing is that i hear Chris singing those harmonies that Sharon and Lori are doing (or Sharon & Mindy)....Stevie and Lindsey could have done those vocals even if they had to rearrange them to fit their respective ranges.

Oh well....i guess we can never be happy huh? For my own sake i have to redirect my energy to look on the bright side.

[chiliD]

I still haven't heard the original demo version...well, I did quite a while ago, and only once. I still would really like to compare the demo with this "finished" version side-by-side.

The thing that draws me to the song is Lindsey's guitarwork. He uses some OLD things (the solos...sound like his "Isn't It Midnight" tone), and he incorporates some of the NEW ideas he'd come upon the last few years (the main rhythm work sounds like ideas he used on "Try For The Sun" & "Red Rover"). Lindsey also seemed to capture some of the same feel that Stevie had on "TISL"...specifically "Planets Of The Universe".

Yet, the overall FEEL of the song sounds like "vintage" Rumours era FMac...but, I can't put an exact finger on WHAT it is that makes that sound that way. Like hearing a brand new Rolling Stones tune and knowing that it IS the Rolling Stones before Jagger even opens his mouth.

[David]

I think the work the band did on "Thrown Down" is elegant but too straightforward. I had the same response to it that I had to the "Trouble in Shangri-La" album last year. I've always been a little disappointed when Fleetwood Mac stripped its work of idiosyncrasy & went for the one-two punch of MOR, whether it was the reactionary quality on some of "Mirage" or the mainstream "Time." I can't really see myself returning to "Thrown Down" in 20 years the way I return to "Tusk" & "Heroes"---or at best only sporadically. To me, the charm is usually in the off-kilter, & this "Thrown Down" track, while beautifully played & mixed, has no more distinct personality than tracks I've heard by the Dave Matthews Band or Sheryl Crow or even Dave Mason. All the little elements that the band pulls together with utmost craft in this track just ultimately seem so calculated to me, with that radio hit blueprint behind it all. The sad thing is that, even when it is engineered to do so, the song typically doesn't chart anyway.

[blinker12]

The arrangement and the song itself are terrific, but I agree with CarneVaca about the lyrics. They *sound* OK, but they don't really mean anything. I don't think it's necessarily the subject matter that's the problem _ there are always fresh (or at least compelling) ways to look at love gone wrong.
Instead, they're just not very well written. And frankly, I find that disappointing considering that Stevie's lyrics on TISL were some of her best and most direct in years. Lyrically, "Thrown Down" seems like a bit of a step backward _ to the OSOTM era, when everything she wrote was vague and third-person.
Disclaimer: This isn't an attack on Stevie (I adore her work) or an attempt to say that she "should" have written the song another way. Just an opinion.

As for what's great about the song: I really like the background vocal line sung by Sharon and Lori. True, it would be better if it were sung by Christine, but musically it adds a lot to the song. Also, of course, Lindsey's guitar work is splendid. I love the little truncated solos at the end. And I think Stevie's vocals are very clean and clear. It's kind of a nice twist that at the end of the song, *Lindsey*, not Stevie, is the one to spaz out! LOL

[Christopher]

I also believe that Lindsey was inspired with TISL......esp 'Planets" ... I recall in an interview w/ Srevie around that time ...That Lindsey mentioned to her he was impressed with John Shanks and what he did with Planets of the Universe......and he thought TISL was her Best solo lp to date...

Thrown Down-doesnt sound out of place next to Stevie's TISL songs....I was listening to Planets and TD back to back the other day and they flowed very nicely....

Another positive on the new FM Thrown Down version is the tempo....the Tempo is brighter and faster than the demo version and also gets Stevie out of that slow to mid-tempo which her songs usually plod along at.....

[CarneVaca]

Were Stevie's vocals redone from the demo? Or do you think they were patched in? Of course, if Lindsey changed keys on the song, they would have been redone, though these days with the kind of software at the disposal of producers, you can change keys on someone's vocal electronically. I don't see Lindsey doing that though.

What about Stevie's tendency to write in third person? Is that one of the attractions to a lot of people? Does it help draw you in to the story?

Remember in "Dreams" she uses the second person, and I think that is what makes the song terribly effective. Of course, I consider "Rhiannon" an exception to the rule, but that song is on a different plain altogether.

[joe]

Originally posted by David
I think the work the band did on "Thrown Down" is elegant but too straightforward....The sad thing is that, even when it is engineered to do so, the song typically doesn't chart anyway.


David, i agree with everything you are saying. Although i am still glad (believe it or not) that they are putting a record out....well, 4/5 of them plus "extras"...i just wish that they would go that extra mile and be a little bit more groundbreaking. A little more rough and experimental if you will...the new stuff comes out and then 6 months later you're sick of it already cause it's too formulaic. And, yeah, then it doesn't chart so everyone thinks it's a failure. Most of these old bands are like that. I mean, "Don't Stop" by the Stones? I didn't see anything special with that one.

I hope "thrown down" isn't a sign of things to come in the context of what David is saying.

[jeffs]

Personally, without having recently listened to Twisted, this song sounds like Twisted with different lyrics. Anyone else find the resemlence? Not going to be a radio hit in my opinion, but pleasant enough to listen to.

[BlueGrass]

Usually the first song leaked from an album is the first single. The only thing is this sounds like it isn't completed. The tracks starts off odd with the drum roll. It isn't in CDQ either, but that doesn't mean anything.

If this is the first single then I would be sort of dissapointed, not because it isn't a good song, but because I would like something a bit more edgier like "Gift Of Screws."

[Johnny Stew]

The first thing I thought when I heard the demo for "Thrown Down," was that it would make a great single for Fleetwood Mac.
In my opinion, the lyrics walk the fine line between the more straightforward aspects of Christine's lyrical style, and the typically more ponderable style of Stevie's work.
The chorus is catchy, and sticks with you after the song has finished... which always bodes well for repeated radio play.
I think the third-person nature of Stevie's lyrics here, works well, as it leaves the listener to ponder exactly *who* is being sung about.
She's not coming right out and saying, "this is about me and someone"... but she's being coy enough, that one wouldn't feel wrong in making that assumption.

I'm in love with the Fleetwood Mac version, and I think Lindsey did a terrific job on the production. It's not a major departure from Stevie's original demo, but it has enough changes to give it a nice new twist.
And... as always... those two voices just sound amazing together.
I'm a fan of Stevie's voice, and all its quirks, so I imagine it goes without saying that I think she sounds terrific here. And Lindsey sounds particulary committed on his backing vocals, and gives the track a nice edginess.
(To answer your question, CarneVaca... Stevie's vocals are new. Her voice is a little "softer" here than on her demo.)

Overall, the finished product (if this *is* the finished product) might be slightly predictable, as far as Fleetwood Mac's music goes... but it's still heads above 90% of the music being made today.
And quite honestly, i welcome "The Mac Sound" with open arms, so it doesn't bother me if it's slightly reminiscent of their previous work.

I'm happy as a clam! :D


Johnny Stew

[jwd]

Well I think its what makes most of Fleetwood Mac's songs sound great.....the guitar and production work of Lindsey, the vocals of Stevie and her harmonies with Lindsey, and the rhythm section of John and Mick... to put it simply.

I like the song but I don't think it's their best, or one that just blows you away. I love hearing that Fleetwood Mac sound and never really get tired of hearing it.

"Thrown Down" as a single wouldn't appeal to me, but within the context of their forthcoming album it COULD find its' niche.

As a post script I think that Stevie's voice sounds very tonally appealing on this song. :) ...and I think the additional vocals of Lori and Sharon are a plus ala Christine.


Joe

[seteca]

Originally posted by David
I think the work the band did on "Thrown Down" is elegant but too straightforward.......... All the little elements that the band pulls together with utmost craft in this track just ultimately seem so calculated to me, with that radio hit blueprint behind it all. The sad thing is that, even when it is engineered to do so, the song typically doesn't chart anyway.

I agree with this. While Lindsey has indeed turned the song from quite a boring (IMHO, and not surprising as it was only a demo) demo into a very listenable, radio-friendly "FM sounding" track, I do think that it is too "straightforward", at least if it's going to be released as a single; while it IS radio-friendly, I hope that it isn't released as a single because at best it will do "ok" in the charts, at worst it won't even chart.

In answer to the actual topic of the thread, for me it really has to be LB's guitar work on the track...the verses in particular with the arpeggios and muted notes in verses 1 and 2 respectively are really awesome.

Originally posted by chiliD
He uses some OLD things (the solos...sound like his "Isn't It Midnight" tone)

Ah thank you!! I was dying trying to figure out why the song reminded me of the TITN album.....for some reason I'd gone blank and didn't remember the Isn't It Midnight solo tone....yes, the two tones are practically identical...in fact I wouldn't be surprised if he used the same guitar going through the same FX.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[joe]

so i think we all agree that you take a little "Planets of the Universe", "Twisted", "Big Love", and "Isn't is Midnight" and voila! you've got "Thrown Down"!

[estranged4life]

waiting for my copy of "Thrown Down" to arrive...If it sounds like the description that joe gave as a combination of "Planets of the Universe", "Twisted", "Big Love", and "Isn't is Midnight", Then it should be very interesting...Brian J.

[FiercestCalmSea]

I sent it out way earlier this week so you should have it soon :)

[estranged4life]

Sarah...My mail is way behind, But so is everyone elses...lol...Brian J.

[Sorcerer386]

What about Stevie's tendency to write in third person? Is that one of the attractions to a lot of people? Does it help draw you in to the story?

My friend always laughs at me because I tell him how I like "story songs." Writing in the third person contributes more to telling a story in a song. The second person version of this song would be like she's saying something to someone, which she WAS doing in Dreams, but I don't think she's doing that here. The first person is also direct, though not AS direct. So, I think Stevie was just telling a story, and I like it this way.

I'm uncomfortably surprised about non-Stevie fans not liking the lyrics. Most say that her lyrics are too abstract or too choppy, whereas in this song they are more prose-ish. I thought it was interesting that someone mentioned it reminded them of Christine's writing, because I thought that it did too. And, I definitely hear a slice of Big Love in the background of the first verse.

As far as it being the first single, well, the song IS catchy, and I think that's what you need with the first single. Then the second single should be edgier, more uptempo, etc. Slow it down with the third single, then if you get to a fourth single, another catchy, midtempo song. I love this song more each time I hear it. BUT, another thing we have to remember is that we don't even know what songs are gonna be on this album. There's obviously some Stevie songs we don't know yet, and maybe even some newer Lindsey songs not from Gift of Screws. So I think we would really need to wait to hear everything before deciding what should be singles. Enough ranting, I'm tired.

[sodascouts]

Hmm, a lot to talk about here.

First, I have to say I'm surprised about how many people are talking about the vast differences between the demo and the leaked version. Obviously you have the additions of Lindsey's trademark guitar, the extra background vocals, but the rest of the variations seem pretty slight to me. I was actually surprised that it wasn't changed more, but then again, maybe that's the problem - it doesn't seem very changed to me because I was expecting it to be MORE changed. lol But as just a regular old listener, I didn't really notice that big of a difference (besides what I said above).

Second:
To begin, there have been way too many songs written about failed relationships, and this song is rather bland lyrically. It is very hard anymore to say something fresh about this topic.

What, so no one should do songs about failed relationships anymore? Come on! Relationships are a fundamental part of the human emotional experience, which is precisely why there are so many songs about them! But perhaps you're right. Let's make 2003 the cutoff year. "Want to hear a song about heartbreak? Let me refer you to some of our classics. We don't sing about such things anymore."

And while you're at it, cut off the love songs. Tons of songs about that. Cut off the songs about sex. Surely there's only so many ways to say "I want you." Cut off the songs about pain, hate, joy, sorrow, anger, jealousy, resentment, passion - people have written songs about all these emotions since the beginning of time! So passee!

Life experiences don't suddenly become irrelevant because others have lived them before, and neither do songs about them.



At any rate, about the lyrics:

There is nothing more subjective than lyric analysis. Everybody gets something different out of them. What sounds insipid to one person might touch another deeply. What one person can't make heads or tails out of, another sees a meaning as clear as crystal (no pun intended). It reminds me of when I took a postmodernism seminar. I'm being handed these postmodern texts, told they're oh so significant works of genius, half the time I'm like "What the...?! This is bizarre, rambling, pointess crap!"

So, in that vein, what makes a "good" lyric? I feel it's indefinable. Some people fault Lindsey for having lyrics that are too simplisitc, some fault Steive for having lyrics that are too vague....but what's "good" is what speaks to you, isn't it? And that's mighty hard to guage. In relation to that, as Rick Nelson would say, "You can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself." ;-)

[CarneVaca]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sodascouts
What, so no one should do songs about failed relationships anymore? Come on! Relationships are a fundamental part of the human emotional experience, which is precisely why there are so many songs about them!

I want to hear songs about relationships that bring a fresh perspective, or fresh images, not simply a retread of ideas that have been featured ad nauseum in pop songs. With Ms. Nicks' credentials as a songwriter, you would hope that she could come up with better. The lyrics are bland, and that was my point. I didn't call for a ban on any type of song.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
Songs about HAPPY stuff are lifeless for the most part...

So that would make "Mystified," "You Make Loving Fun," "Leather and Lace," "Countdown," "Turn It On," and "Rhiannon," to name a few, lifeless songs?

[xhector]

>I also like the Hammond organ in the background. I only wish
> Lindsey had thought of adding the Hammond to his sound long
> ago because I love that instrument.

Where's that hammond organ? I cannot hear it on this song.

Héctor

[seteca]

Originally posted by xhector
>I also like the Hammond organ in the background. I only wish
> Lindsey had thought of adding the Hammond to his sound long
> ago because I love that instrument.

Where's that hammond organ? I cannot hear it on this song.

Héctor

Yea good point...I can't hear it either...:shrug:

Where is it, CV? Can you give me a time location? Or is it throughout the entire song?

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Vianna]

I just heard TD-not sure what I think yet. I feel like it's a continuation of TISL on Stevie's part and I definitely see the resemblance to Planets of the Universe.

I like Stevie's voice with Lindsey's.

I like Lindsey's guitar solo in there and I like the ending.

I wonder if this is the first single??Do you guys think this will attract enough attention and radio play to promote the album? I'm kinda doubtful myself...

[joe]

Originally posted by xhector
>I also like the Hammond organ in the background. I only wish
> Lindsey had thought of adding the Hammond to his sound long
> ago because I love that instrument.

Where's that hammond organ? I cannot hear it on this song.

Héctor


You can hear the low notes as soon as the first verse starts...it's very low but i can hear it. after about :30 with the line "but more important..." it get's a little louder...then, in the chorus after about 1:20 before the line "but they should be together..." it's more evident in volume and also the notes are higher with some vibrato going on...it's not a blaring organ. as a matter of fact, it could be a bit louder but whatever....we don't know if this is even the final mix. hope this helps.

[David]

Originally posted by joe
You can hear the low notes as soon as the first verse starts...it's very low but i can hear it. after about :30 with the line "but more important..." it get's a little louder...then, in the chorus after about 1:20 before the line "but they should be together..." it's more evident in volume and also the notes are higher with some vibrato going on...it's not a blaring organ. as a matter of fact, it could be a bit louder but whatever....we don't know if this is even the final mix. hope this helps.
I can't hear the B3, either. But I will go back & listen for it at the 1:20 mark.

Is it possible it's just a synth pad of some sort? To tell you the truth, I can't hear any sort of keyboard on this one. However, my ears are not to be trusted because my hearing is going.

[joe]

Originally posted by David
I can't hear the B3, either. But I will go back & listen for it at the 1:20 mark.

Is it possible it's just a synth pad of some sort? To tell you the truth, I can't hear any sort of keyboard on this one. However, my ears are not to be trusted because my hearing is going.

well, to be honest, i don't know if it's a synth pad. it could be...you never know these days. and it's so drowned out with everything else going on in there that it's hard to really isolate it. I also have an incredible sinus infection so my ears are very clogged the past few days. It's hard for me right now to really "listen" to the song and pick specific things out.

Those timing marks are to be given or taken one or two seconds but you should hear it. Maybe the beginning keyboard part isn't necessarily a B3...it could be some other organ/synth but there is definately an organ (B3 if you will?) sound during the chorus which i've indicated can be heard around the 1:20 mark. I have an old Hammond M3 with a Leslie 145 speaker. The Hammond M3 is really nothing special but with the type of speaker i have it mimics a B3 which is really cool. I love it. It puts out an incredible amount of sound.

One more thing...when i first heard this song i thought that maybe Stevie's vibrato on certain words such as in the line in the first verse: "day by DAYYYYYYYYY" sounded fake to me almost like it was tweaked in the studio to give it that effect. By no means am i saying that Stevie has no vibrato and can't sing but it just sounded that way to me when i first heard it and i can't ignore something that my ears detected. Maybe it just sounds too perfect or something. I just listened to it now and i guess it sounded normal but i'm not 100% sure of that. I remember noticing this on "POTU" towards the end on the extended mix where she goes: "...go there way...wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" it's right before the fade out...Just sounded like it was "helped" to me. Again, i could be completely wrong but i wouldn't rule out that FM would resort to using special techniques to help them sound near flawless. Anyone else notice this?

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by David---

"I can't hear the B3, either. But I will go back & listen for it at the 1:20 mark.

Is it possible it's just a synth pad of some sort? To tell you the truth, I can't hear any sort of keyboard on this one."

You could probably tell if it is a B3 or a synth pad if you try mixing the song down into 2 separate channels by using a DVD player, I just did that for the "Tusk" album and burnt those discs (2 discs of the separate mono channels mixes...I hear ALOT that I never knew existed on the "Tusk" album. I learned this lil' trick from my "Beatles" trading companions, Who in the past, Mixed the stereo versions into separate mono channels so a person can hear alot more of what is going on musically...) directly into my TDK system. I'm going to try it with "Thrown Down" when I get my copy to just see what lies below the surface, Brian J.

[Sorcerer386]

I do hear the organ right before and during "And they should be together..." It's just playing straight chords, you hear it start off on one chord and then it goes up to the next chord. I can't really catch it anywhere else, but I'd imagine it's in there...I don't think they'd use it for two chords on one line of the chorus. Concerning the vibrato, I think it probably was polished with studio work as anything is, but I don't think it's fabricated. Stevie's always had that ability. I don't know if it's a TRUE vibrato which involves rapidly exchanging slight pitches. But then again, I'm not sure if there's a way to shake your voice without making it a vibrato. Hey music buffs...a little help? Thanks! :wavey:

[seteca]

Yes, I think I can just about hear it now, although I would never have picked it up if you guys hadn't desribed it/given time locations...no way I can tell if that really is an organ or not...could well be a synth. It's not really a critical instrument to the song is it...!

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[greatdarkwing]

CarneVaca brought up a good point, that the guitar work is very 'Out of the Cradle'. I was discussing this with a good friend of mine. From 'Thrown Down', I am getting a feeling that most of Lindsey's songs are going to be very much like 'Out of the Cradle' and most of Stevie's songs very 'Shangri-La'. My only concern is, what happens when 'Out of the Cradle' meets 'Trouble in Shangri-La'!

Lmao!!! Perfect album title: "Trouble in the Cradle!!!"

~Alex:)

[joe]

Originally posted by greatdarkwing
Lmao!!! Perfect album title: "Trouble in the Cradle!!!"

~Alex:)

That's good. really good.

As an alternative, how about "Out of Shangri-La"

Doesn't have the same punch as yours but.....oh well!

[Cristian]

I like the mix of the vocals on this song. I was afraid of hearing a couple of voices that were pretty much out of range at this point of time, but Stevie and Lindsey manage to mantain the harmony that they had even in the first years on their songwriting/performing relationship. Especially notable are their harmonies in the final part. As said, in few Stevie songs Lindsey has been so vocally commited with her.

I like the instrumentation. The background (rhythm) guitar (sorry, I am not a musician therefore I can't be too technical about this) is astonishingly beautiful, reminding us of Lindsey's later works. His lead part is no less notorious, too. The use of the keyboards is also very interesting, and by no means exagerated. I also like the detail of the vocals that sound like sung by Christine but they aren't.

I like the lyrics. I like the third-part songs when Stevie is actually talking about herself. It's a very characteristic system that she has used many times and she has reached many good results with that technique. This time, without being her best lyric at all, it's not embarassing and it serves its purpose.

BUT... I don't see this as a radio hit at all. I don't know, there's something about the structure of it, the sound of it... it's more of a fantastic album track rather than a big radio hit. I hope they choose another of the already finished songs to be promoted. Let's remember that FM has made horrible choices for singles in the past that have not helped the sellings of the albums, instead of lifting them up (remember the "Love In Store" single from Mirage which went nowhere; same for "Fireflies" and "Farmer's Daughter" on the Live album; "Sisters Of The Moon" and "Think About Me" on Tusk and most of all the awful choices of "Save Me", "Skies The Limit" and "Hard Feelings (!!!!) on Behind The Mask)...


Song of the moment - Thrown Down (of course)



P.S. Happy Xmas everybody.

[BombaySapphire3]

I don't think it really matters too much what the first single is as far as chart potential.Correct me if i'm wrong someone,but unless I'm mistaken no "Classic Rock' artist has made the Billboard top 20 pop singles charts since the turn of the millenium with the obvious exception of Santana who noodles along to singing 20 year olds.I think what we have to hope for here is strong album sales.Springsteen just sold big with no major hit single.

[Cristian]

It's a pity that the thing about buying singles is dead. It was something good, you know... "I like that song, I will buy it". Period. If you did not like the whole body of work of the artist, then you would not buy the entire LP.

In this case I was of course refering to radio airplay. I don't see it as a radio "hit" (thinking about "contemporary adult" or even "oldies" stations even)... that was the main point of my original post.


Song of the moment - Thrown Down

[rhianntp]

its seems as though Lindsey is reborn with the playing on this song... its a new twist on his style and he pulls it off very well... I must say that Mick's drumming and especially John's bass work here is so very much full of life..... this song is packed with energy ..... I try to stay away from listening to it too much because I want the final album verson and the liner notes.. hehe
the most disappointing thing about this song is Stevie's voice...dont get me wrong .. I love her... and this vocal is pretty strong... how ever it will always be obvious how she has damaged her voice over the years... which is unfortunate because she had such an angelic unique voice early on.... lindsey sounds as young as ever though vocally here..:)
I am hoping this album includes some instrumental pieces..... the way Toto always seemed to always include a full instrumental song.. I'd love to see what mick john and lindsey could pull off instrumentally... even like an albatross type thing... would be awesome..:)

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by rhianntp
the most disappointing thing about this song is Stevie's voice...dont get me wrong .. I love her... and this vocal is pretty strong... how ever it will always be obvious how she has damaged her voice over the years... which is unfortunate because she had such an angelic unique voice early on....As always, it's interesting to hear other people's opinions, and how we react to certain things.

For me, Stevie's voice is one of the best parts of "Thrown Down."
It *can* be a bit jarring to listen to a song such as "Silver Springs," from 1976, and then follow it with something from the last few years, but I find her voice far more fascinating now than ever before (well, expect perhaps the mid-80s, and that seductive rasp on "I Sing For The Things," and "When I See You Again," etc.).

Thru all the grit and texture, there's a prettiness to Stevie's voice, even to this day... at least to my ears. And whatever she's lost in range, she has more than made up for in resonance.
It's truly a unique instrument... perfect within all of its imperfections.



Johnny Stew

[jwd]

Very well said ....AGAIN...Brian.

I felt the same way in comparing Stevie's voice from the early years to present.....what she has lost in range she has more than made up for in the resonance of it. That was one thing I always felt she lacked in her "early" singing voice.

Angelic voice......I would call it that to this day...a voice that still gets me through the dark hours of my life, lifts me up, and touches my soul.....REALLY! :)


Joe

[Cristian]

Originally posted by thewhitewingedd
...Reminds me of Twisted... Funny you'd say that. When everyone was talking about the new upcoming album not featuring Christine at all, I immediatly thought about the vocals sounding like "Twisted", with Stevie's vocals being so well mixed with Lindsey's... but in a completely different level that the one used in, say, the Buckingham Nicks album. Their voces now are now in more "maturity" and I love that. Both of the voices: Stevie's hypnotic vocal and Lindsey's solid sounds... more so in the high notes he reaches through the end of the song.


Song of the moment - Paper Doll

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by Cristian
Lindsey's solid sounds... more so in the high notes he reaches through the end of the song.His voice at the end absolutely gives me chills!
Usually they give the "branching off" part to Stevie, so it's really a treat to listen to Lindsey tackling it this time.

Great song. :)


Johnny Stew

[Sorcerer386]

Lindsey's voice has DRAMATICALLY changed I think, as well as Stevie's of course. It's definitely a lot lower as he strains to hit ISA notes in The Dance, which for me makes the song so much better. But the reason I'm responding is because I can remember when I first bought the Twister soundtrack and was driving away from the mall. I put it in and was coming to a place to yield right before Lindsey started singing. When he started singing, all I kept thinking was, is THAT Lindsey? It sounds nothing like him. Little did I realize that I had NOT yielded into the next lane but was driving on the shoulder of the road. It's a good thing I got my attention back because that shoulder doesn't last for long...

[CarneVaca]

I'm not sure Lindsey's voice has changed dramatically. A bit, yes, as everyone's voice is bound to. What happens now is he sings in a greater variety of registers, pushing his range a lot more than he did in the early days. It's all good.

[seteca]

I definitely think that LB's voice was at its peak during the OOTC tour...he could still (just about) access those highs of the 70s, but could also hit the lows of "The Dance". He must have either gone through some very good vocal training, or else his voice naturally was at its best during that time. I am HIGHLY envious of anyone who saw him live during that period...it must have been a complete joy to watch and hear.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[Steve]

Even though they still sound good together, they have lost the wonderful harmony they had in the early days. :(

[pberry]

I am thrilled with the Fleetwood Mac version of Thrown Down. It starts off with a soothing beat. I love the way Stevie tells a story and brings one in. Her stories always ring with truth. Like a barricade removed, the song talks about the possibility of love between the couple. Who wants to dedicate their pain...
The song's healing sense is joyful. I could see Stevie deliver its lines in the way she sang Silver Springs. I think we're going to be in for a treat when the two are on stage singing to each other. LB and SN are amazing indenpendently but together, it's outrageous. I love Christine too but this is an amazing experiment, one that will be memorable. I heard some people didn't like this song. I think all of the best songs work when powerful lyrics are a component. I find Thrown Down to have new life in the studio version. I understand it in a way that I didn't understand the Stevie demo.

[Rumours]

Ok, this is going to sound corny on my part.....but, I haven't been around here in a while.....I am SO out of the loop.....how can I hear the Mac's version of this song? Where can I find it. I have Stevie's demo, and I would love to hear how this sounds now, since it's been Mactified!! Is it in another thread? I've missed something......
Ok, a lot!!!!

Thanks!
Stephanie