2nd Greatest Acoustic Perfomance To "Big Love"? [Archive]

wondergirl9847

09-08-2002, 01:09 PM

I love each and every one SO MUCH!! Red Rover made my jaw drop to the floor when I first heard it. :eek: AMAZING!!

Go Insane is so gorgeous, it makes me want to cry. That pling pling pling pling...da da da da da... at the beginning is so beautiful!

Here Comes the Sun was greatness too...what I wouldn't have given to have been in NYC that night..sigh...I just CANNOT get over the hole in the guitar story..KILLER!! :laugh:

Say Goodbye is a haunting song that is so soft and tender, it's a cry-inducer as well.

Try for the Sun is not my favorite GOS song, mainly because I cannot understand the lyrics very well, but the guitar is GREATNESS!!

I guess I would say Red Rover too like Neil...when I first heard it, I was just in shock at it's greatness. SUPERB!!

nodmod

09-08-2002, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by BlueGrass
I made one...It has:

This Nearly Was Mine
Big Love
Never Going Back Again '93
Stephanie
Blue Turns To Gray
Instrumental 1
Go Insane
Lanslide
Gypsy Live AHI
Instrumental 2
Red Rover
Love Minus Zero
Bleed To Love Her
She Smiled Sweetly
Say Goodbye
Never Going Back Again
Here Comes The Son
Street Of Dreams '93
Try For The Sun

Yeah, that's it along those lines, couldn't think of anything else to go on it.
Did you use Bleed To Love Her Dance version or GOS version?

seteca

09-08-2002, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by BlueGrass
What do you thinbk it is. I know many agree "Big Love" is amazing...but what do you think is second in line?

"Go Insane" (Live)
"Red Rover"
"Say Goodbye"
"Try For The Sun"
"Here Comes The Sun" LInds version

I'd go with "Try For The Sun"...it is incredibily fast paced...and multi-layered like "Big Love."

What do you mean by "multi-layered"...?

It's one guitar, only. The fact that he uses two amps, each one with clever delay settings, coupled with some damn good Travis picking, gives the effect of a "multi-layered" song.
If you mean "multi-layered" in the sense that the song has indepedent bass-rhythm-melody sections....well, that's the essence of Travis picking. All of those songs you've mentioned there are played using the same method.

IMO none of the songs on G.O.S. are totally "acoustic"...sure they're played with an acoustic guitar(s) but all the "acoustic" G.O.S. songs are multi-layered, and many of them have synthesizer, percussion, etc layers....so I personally wouldn't class them as "acoustic" in the way that "Big Love", "Go Insane", "Never Going Back Again", "Here Comes The Sun" are.

In answer to the original question...my fav. LB acoustic song is "Go Insane (Live '97)".

In terms of impressive guitar performace, "Big Love" is easily the most technically challenging/impressive song...it took me the good part of a year to get it perfect (and I don't even sing over it...!...yep...the guy is an absolute genius..!)

A distant second (again, "technically" speaking) would be "Never Going Back Again"....it's a simple sounding song but keeping that alternating bass line going in perfect time is quite tricky.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

BlueGrass

09-08-2002, 04:28 PM

Nodmod: I used the live version cause the guitar picking stands out more. And it is more "acoustic" cause it doesn't have that electric guitar ending like the original does.

I'm currently making a second Cd with another version of "Never Gaoing Back Again," "Landslide," "Go Insane," "Big Love," "Try For The Sun" and "Countdown."

Seteca...

What I mean is..."Big Love" has a lot of things going on at once...it doesn't sound simple to me at all. Same with "Try For The Sun." The guitar playing seems (and sounds) very complex. So that is kinda what I mean by multi-layered.

Skylark

09-08-2002, 07:50 PM

Your list is good ...Try For the Son!... is one of his best!!!
{ I put Try for The SON as that is how Lindsey wrote it!}
I know the other two are more intricate and his fingers
fly for multi-layering effects!Multi-Genius at Work I say! Sky:)

chiliD

09-08-2002, 11:36 PM

Lindsey's version of "Here Comes The Sun" is an abomination to the memory of George Harrison...no WONDER Peter Jennings & ABC wanted to ****can it from the New Year's Eve show. It was only because of Lindsey's "hissy fit" that they allowed him to play it. I wish they would've told him to stick it, instead. Talk about ruining a great song...

macfan 57

09-09-2002, 10:35 AM

My favorite Lindsey acoustic song is Never Going Back Again. I love it on Rumours and live both on the Rumours tour and on his 1993 OOTC tour. My least favorite would be Here Comes the Sun. I agree with ChiliD's last post, but I'm also a big Beatles fan, too.

chiliD

09-09-2002, 10:56 AM

Ooops...it was late last night when I posted and I forgot to list my FAVEs of Lind's acoustic stuff:

Stephanie
Red Rover
Try For The Sun

The solo acoustic version of "Soul Drifter" that Lindsey did to end his OotC live tour set is pretty darn good , too.

seteca

09-09-2002, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Lindsey's version of "Here Comes The Sun" is an abomination to the memory of George Harrison...no WONDER Peter Jennings & ABC wanted to ****can it from the New Year's Eve show. It was only because of Lindsey's "hissy fit" that they allowed him to play it. I wish they would've told him to stick it, instead. Talk about ruining a great song...

I'm curious about something...for a variety of reasons I guess (primarily being my relatively young age), I've never heard George Harrison's (original) version of HCTS, or indeed any cover of it other than Lindsey's. However, when I heard Lindsey's last NYE...I really liked it, simply because to my ears it was a totally new song...i.e. I had nothing to compare it to.

Do you think that if I have a listen to George Harrison's original version, I'll stop liking Lindsey's...?...or maybe not like his as much as I used to...?

It's a weird situation I guess...to have heard a cover but not the original....haha...I feel like these teenagers who hear "Alient Ant Farm" singing "Smooth Criminal" and they go "Wow!! That's such an amazing song!!!".....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

jeffles

09-09-2002, 01:31 PM

Seteca,
You've never heard the Beatles "Here Comes the Sun"? You should probably give it a listen and you'll see why there a plenty of people disappointed with LB's version. Its not that his version is aweful, it isn't. I don't dislike it at all, but it was hardly a tribute. I particularly like when an artist pays tribute to others by completely recreating the song, such as Matchbox 20 doing a whole new take on "Never Going Back Again". However, , when you pay tribute to someone who died, you do a faithful version and put aside your own agenda. LB's totally offbeat take on the song wasn't appropriate for that setting.

chiliD

09-09-2002, 01:48 PM

Yeah, good choice of words..."inappropriate". Probably, under different circumstances, I might've enjoyed the new take of "HCTS", but, still, I doubt it, being a big George Harrison/Beatles fan.

BlueGrass

09-09-2002, 01:59 PM

ChiliD; Anyway I could get this version of "Soul Drifter"? As an mp3 or something?

CarneVaca

09-09-2002, 02:46 PM

Lindsey, being pretty self-centered, was going to do Here Comes the Sun however he saw fit and no one could have changed his mind about that. His rendition of the song is certainly jarring for those of us used to hearing the sweet sounds of Harrison's original. Did Lindsey strike the appropriate tone or reach for the right emotion in his version? That certainly is debatable. But does his rendition stand on its own as a typically frantic and anguished Lindsey number? Certainly, and we have our friend Seteca to attest to that. I am not sure that Lindsey should have done the whole anguish thing on this song, but to call it an abomination is probably going too far.

chiliD

09-09-2002, 03:31 PM

No, I think "abomination" is actually an understatement.

Carole Ann

09-09-2002, 07:35 PM

...was, "What in the world did George ever do to Lindsey?" My God, what a mess that "rendition" was. George was, no doubt, flopping about in his grave, trying to get his fingers in his ears and going, "LALALALALALALALALALALA!"

LB should be ashamed of himself; that's no way to treat a song, especially a Beatles' song. :distress:

Les

09-09-2002, 08:17 PM

Actually, I thought it was sort of lovely that the reclusive member of one band would come out of his cave to play a song that meant something to him, created by a hero, the reclusive member of another band.

So you don't like the rendition, huh? Hey, fine. It's an entirely subjective opinion that lots share.

Course, some don't share it. Best thing he ever did? Nah. An abomination to the memory of George Harrison? Nah. ;)

Les

09-09-2002, 08:21 PM

I'm still rather transfixed by Red Rover & Say Goodbye as my favorite "acoustics" from the new stuff.

DownOnRodeo

09-09-2002, 08:40 PM

I agree with Les. Any Beatles fan might be appalled, but if the network execs chose 90s/2000s Lindsey, well, that's what they get. His playing is never a sell out these days. Some may say this 'integrity' has warped his musical sensibility to the other extreme (a'la' Tusk as areaction to Rumours)- trying carefully not to be too accessible.

So I stand by Lindsey that 'he is what he is', and that's what they got. Since when would George Harrison turn over in his grave when Lindsey is doing the best he can. If you pick Lindsey Buckingham, that's the tribute you can expect from him (if you know anythng about him post Rumours, which these NBC people seemingly didn't :s). Since when has Lindsey recently ever sold out to what people expect?

Christy - those are my exact words: My jaw dropped when I first heard Red Rover! That song is unreal.

But favourite acoustic (as opposed to live acoustic..?) goes to Try for the Sun. Maybe live acoustic is the GYOW from the Sports Bar set! Esepcially that croony vocal intro teaser!

Oh oh - are we forgetting the Down on Rodeo demo;) Sure it has some pathetic drum machine, but come on!

Carole Ann

09-09-2002, 09:34 PM

Is this paltry collection of barbed, witty, terribly hurtful, yet suspiciously knee-jerk, responses directed at moi?

DownOnRodeo

09-09-2002, 09:42 PM

Please, I'm appalled!
But, now that you meation jerks....

:laugh: j/k...couldn't resist!:wavey:

Anyway, who's Moi??...I was talking to you Carol Ann!
LOL;)

Carole Ann

09-09-2002, 09:54 PM

Here's a quarter.

wondergirl9847

09-09-2002, 09:57 PM

I just do not understand why Lindsey's version of HCTS made people want to gag. :shrug: I mean I can sit here and say, Elton John's version of "Don't Stop" was an abomination...but I won't. ;):laugh: And, you may say, but that is different, they aren't dead, but it was still called a TRIBUTE album. Anywho...

Why should Lindsey do a "cookie-cutter" version of the song, he is NOT George Harrison, so he shouldn't do it like GEORGE would have. I thought it was fine, he sang it with emotion and played AMAZINGLY. JMO tho...if ya don't like it, that's cool. :cool:

Street_Dreamer

09-09-2002, 10:05 PM

What many of us as fans of Lindsey's work appreciate the most is how "out of left field" he is as a musician. He's willing to try a technique totally different than what is considered to be the "norm" (ie: Tusk.) Right or wrong, bad or good, I support his decision because he's not doing it for the money, he's doing it to better himself as a musician. I personally thought that his version of HCTS was awesome.
BUT
Lindsey's best acoustic performance, to me is the Down On Rodeo demo. The song just has a certain emotional impact on me; the vocals, the guitar, the simplicity of it is just pure magic. I KNOW it has a "beat" to it but take that out and the song wouldn't change at all because the guitar carries the beat too.

Matt

Carole Ann

09-09-2002, 10:27 PM

I love the way Chili catches the first stage outta town just as this starts getting good. Wuss.

I hate HCtS; everybody else likes it. There you go.

I doubt seriously that any souls were released from (or sent to) purgatory just because opinions differ.

Do not infer, however, that I do not "understand" Lindsey's music; I have been a fan for longer than most of you have been alive.

It's just an opinion.

DownOnRodeo

09-09-2002, 10:37 PM

Carol Ann
I could tell from your two replies to me ("knee-jerk comments" and "have a quarter") that you consider yours a higher claim to Lindsey appreciation than mine.
Yes I'm 18 (actually 19 in a few weeks). Does that make my comments inferior, especially for that matter my appreciation of Lindsey and his music? Unless you're the Carol Ann of Go Insane fame, we're fans among fans, so the "I'm older than you" thing sounds pretty lame. The point is, I was never "inferring that you didn't understand Lindsey's music". Sorry if it could have been read that way.

Carole Ann

09-09-2002, 10:55 PM

I DID "read it that way;" thus my response that mine was just an opinion. My decidedly advanced age means nothing when it comes to what one likes and what one doesn't like.

Few here purport to be experts (whatever that is); if we can just hold the line at having an opinion, we may be able to straddle the fence of congeniality that passes for good sense around here.

Neither your age nor mine means a thing when it comes to whether we appreciate the way LB interprets a piece of music or not.

I repeat: You like it; I don't. There you go.

DownOnRodeo

09-10-2002, 06:55 AM

Agreed!
No problemo.
:thumbsup:

jeffles

09-10-2002, 09:15 AM

As I mentioned earlier, i do like his version of Here Comes the Sun. But i didn't think it was appropriate for the setting. No, i don't think George Harrison is rolling in his grave over this though...If anything, he'd be rolling over the fact that he was the most overlooked member of the beatles.
I particularly like "Down on Rodeo" most, of all the new songs. Try for the sun is also great.
Of the older songs, I like Crystal. I think he is singing at his best on that song, though its not much of a guitar piece. Big Love, Go Insane, Never Going Back Again and (acoustic) Gypsy are my favorites. I also like Time Bomb Town a lot. Great underrated song!

chiliD

09-10-2002, 11:19 AM

Ok, now, if Lindsey's so "quirky", let's hear him do a solo acoustic guitar version of "Revolution #9"...that's about how "out there" his version of "HCTS" was.

It's one thing to make a song "your own", but at least make sure the song is still recognizable as the song you're covering. Lindsey definitely crossed the line on this one.

By comparison, let's look at the four Rolling Stones tunes he covered during the GoS sessions...those are very close to being carbon copies of the original tune...or at least FAITHFUL to the original arrangement; enough that the songs were RECOGNIZABLE as being the songs. He can do that with the Stones, but f***s up a GEORGE HARRISON song on national TV??? Shameful, downright shameful.

BlueGrass

09-10-2002, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Street_Dreamer
What many of us as fans of Lindsey's work appreciate the most is how "out of left field" he is as a musician. He's willing to try a technique totally different than what is considered to be the "norm" (ie: Tusk.) Right or wrong, bad or good, I support his decision because he's not doing it for the money, he's doing it to better himself as a musician. I personally thought that his version of HCTS was awesome.
BUT
Lindsey's best acoustic performance, to me is the Down On Rodeo demo. The song just has a certain emotional impact on me; the vocals, the guitar, the simplicity of it is just pure magic. I KNOW it has a "beat" to it but take that out and the song wouldn't change at all because the guitar carries the beat too.

Matt

Hey Matt...do you think I could get this sogn fro myou? Do you have it? If so contact me on AIM as Murrow86.

bjk3047

09-10-2002, 02:58 PM

Just a note to Carne, Try For The Sun is one guitar. Have you head the instrumental demo for it? I wouldn't even call it a demo, it sounds like he's laying down the guitar track. He's most certainly picking away at it on one gutair.
-Brian

DownOnRodeo

09-11-2002, 01:51 AM

THERE IS A DEMO VERSION to Try For The Sun?? And nobody told me??!! :o

Apart from that and the Down On Rodeo demo, do you know any other GOS demos (ie excluding Given Thing etc)??

Rainman

09-11-2002, 02:26 AM

I think that Go Insane (Dance version) is the most moving of his accoustic performances. Surely it isn't the most technical or showy bit of Lindsay's work. But it is easily the most emotional (with the probable exception of Big Love).

I can listen to this over and over and find new ways to appreciate it. It's beautiful.

seteca

09-11-2002, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Rainman
I think that Go Insane (Dance version) is the most moving of his accoustic performances. Surely it isn't the most technical or showy bit of Lindsay's work. But it is easily the most emotional (with the probable exception of Big Love).

I can listen to this over and over and find new ways to appreciate it. It's beautiful.

Rainman!:wavey:

PERFECTLY said! I don't think I've ever agreed more with a post on The Ledge!:) "Go Insane '97" is IMO the most emotional LB song ever, and is my fav. song of all time of any artist, full stop! (or "period" !! as you guys say over there!!:D )

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

Rainman

09-11-2002, 11:33 AM

Seteca,

Nice to see some agreement on this. I saw Lindsey do this same version live in the early 90s at a small club in Vancouver. He did Big Love and Go Insane back-to-back, and I was seated right up front, very close. It just blew everyone away. It's something I will never forget.

seteca

09-11-2002, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Rainman
Seteca,

Nice to see some agreement on this. I saw Lindsey do this same version live in the early 90s at a small club in Vancouver. He did Big Love and Go Insane back-to-back, and I was seated right up front, very close. It just blew everyone away. It's something I will never forget.

Wow!! To say I'm totally jealous would be an understatement! I can only imagine how awesome that would have been in such a small setting! I thought after the Dance I would never have the chance to see these songs performed again....but now the odds are looking good!!

(Is Big Love (Live) and Go Insane (Live) on the Greatest Hits album.....I BELIEVE SO!! Hehe!!;))

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

seteca

09-11-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by jeffles
Seteca,
You've never heard the Beatles "Here Comes the Sun"? You should probably give it a listen and you'll see why there a plenty of people disappointed with LB's version. Its not that his version is aweful, it isn't. I don't dislike it at all, but it was hardly a tribute. I particularly like when an artist pays tribute to others by completely recreating the song, such as Matchbox 20 doing a whole new take on "Never Going Back Again". However, , when you pay tribute to someone who died, you do a faithful version and put aside your own agenda. LB's totally offbeat take on the song wasn't appropriate for that setting.

Well I listened to the original. The funny thing is that I first accidentally downloaded an acoustic live version of the song (it's the one where he says "well i'm gonna do an acoustic song now...if we can get these mics to work...") and obviously I realised that it was a live version as soon as I started listening but I decided to carry on listening anyway...and well...maybe I'm going crazy but I actually thought it wasn't exactly light years apart from Lindsey's version......sure they weren't exactly identical, but if I had heard this acoustic version first, and then heard LB's, I would definitely have associated them immediately as the same song.
Then I downloaded the original studio version, and..yes...very rarely do I really like a song on first-listen, but it's truly a beautiful song...I loved it immediately.
Here's how I would "rate" them....the original studio version is amazing....and is so much better that I'd say it's in a different league to both his own and LB's live acoustic versions....but...I do prefer LB's live acoustic over George Harrison's.
I think there is a high chance that LB's "interpretation" of HCTS was directly based on this live acoustic version that I heard (which would make good sense seeing as his was also to be a "one man and one guitar" job), and not the original studio version.

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

bjk3047

09-11-2002, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
THERE IS A DEMO VERSION to Try For The Sun?? And nobody told me??!! :o

Apart from that and the Down On Rodeo demo, do you know any other GOS demos (ie excluding Given Thing etc)??
Yes, it's rather impressive, I can transfer it over to you if you have AIM, PM me.
I never really wanted to listen to any "demos" of GOS unless they were CD quality (which I did). So apart from the instrumental TFTS, the only other GOS rarities worth having are the studio version and "rough cut" version of My Little Demon, both CD quality.
-Brian

CarneVaca

09-12-2002, 09:15 AM

Wow, I didn't look at this thread for a couple of days, and look what I missed! I see my friend Carole Ann is back and Chili rode the coach back into town.

OK, a few thoughts:

Lest I forget, Down on Rodeo hardly qualifies as an acoustic song. If I had to guess, Lindsey is playing a Strat for the main guitar parts on that one. I can't wait to hear it on the new album. Mick should add some cool percussion to it. If you think about it, the song is actually quite similar to Bleed to Love Her.

Secondly, Chili and gang, I understand your dislike of Lindsey's Here Comes the Sun. I had the same kind of violent reaction to most of the stuff in the Rumours tribute. The "how dare he" indignation is well understood. However, Lindsey is hardly botching the song; he is merely giving it a very Lindsey interpretation, and I am pretty sure that George would have appreciated it. Furthermore, Richie Havens did a version of it that was just as urgent-sounding, if not more, the main difference being that Richie Havens strums and Lindsey picks. Do you hate the Havens version as much a you hate Lindsey's? For whatever reason, this shimmering song dripping with optimism strikes a chord of urgency and anguish in some interpreters. So what if they play it differently from George?

Lastly, Lindsey's interpretations of the Stones songs, though not quite as wild as Here Comes the Sun, are hardly faithful renditions, going back to Law and Order days. I don't believe he has done a faifthful rendition yet. Take Satisfied Mind and All My Sorrows. He actually changed chords and gave them considerably different arrangements from what the orginals were.

chiliD

09-12-2002, 10:32 AM

I guess we'll have to "agree to disagree". I "A-B"'d both Lindsey's versions and the Stones versions, they're not that different...only difference I could hear was 30+ years of technological improvements in production quality. Lindsey, to my ears, stays VERY close to the Stones' arrangements. And, that's what DID surprise me that he DID stay so close to the original arrangements.

Actually, I LIKE Richie Havens' version of "HCTS", a LOT. Maybe I could buy into Lindsey's "tortured artist" angst in the 70's & 80's, but, jeez, he's married with two kids, living a seemingly comfortable life, what's he "angst" about? It just seems that NOW his "angst" is phony..."angst for angst's sake"...it doesn't come off very genuine.

CarneVaca

09-12-2002, 11:08 AM

Chili, I'll have to go listen to the Stones' versions again.

As for the angst, hey, this guy is always going to have demons. That's jus the way he is.

DownOnRodeo

09-13-2002, 01:58 AM

Two little ankle-biters running around, wreaking havoc, spilling milk over his 40-track??

I'd have angst!! Lots of it!!

Lol.:laugh: :nod:

Johnny Stew

09-13-2002, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by DownOnRodeo
Two little ankle-biters running around, wreaking havoc, spilling milk over his 40-track??

I'd have angst!! Lots of it!!I think Joe just hit upon the reason Lindsey hasnt released his album! :laugh:

Instead of a full-length album, titled 'Gift Of Screws,' it'll be a one-track single, called 'Crying Over Spilled Milk'
:)

Seriously, about Lindsey's rendition of "Here Comes The Sun"... I actually quite enjoyed it.
I loved that it wasn't a paint-by-numbers cover of the Beatles' original, and I thought it was very much in keeping with the overall tone of Lindsey's work... which is the way a cover should be.
I've always felt that an artist should put their own stamp on a song that they're covering. So we can see it interpreted thru *their* eyes... not just a pale imitation of what's already been done.

Though I could also see why the network had hesitations about the performance.... as they were probably afraid it would come off as damn-near sacreligious.

Anyway, my mom, who's about as big of a Beatles fan as they come, loved it... and she's been listening to "Here Comes The Sun" since the day the 'Abbey Road' was released.

Johnny Stew

jeffles

09-13-2002, 11:05 AM

I tend to agree with ChiliD's comments on the angst, etc. The tortured artist schtick is old. As i mentioned in another thread earlier, he "borrowed" that from Brian Wilson.

Carole Ann

09-13-2002, 06:39 PM

Ol' LB better shape up regarding the kids, if he is, indeed, still bedevilled (is that the way it's spelled?). Of course, we don't KNOW that he is, but it's such fun to pretend.

The last damned thing women as a gender need is another Whiney-Lindsey-Boy in the person of Billy. I certainly hope things in the Buckingham home have brightened up with the birth of the kids; geez, what a bummer to think that their dad insists upon being morose and tortured. Poopy pants are torture enough for ANYone; Lindsey's got kids to raise and he'd better slap a smile on that cute face or the kids are going to figure that their dad's heading toward being a bitter old man.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

wondergirl9847

09-13-2002, 07:48 PM

I have NEVER met the man (But 'twould be a dream to...) and I've only seen him in interviews and on his BTM on VH1, but to me, he doesn't seem tortured and morose (anymore), the way he was playing with the kiddos at the pool and those cute pictures of William with the headphones on and in the studio with daddy was too cute. (And I'm not a "kid" person)

I don't think ANY of us can honestly and truly say that he IS or ISN'T tortured or morose because we don't live with him. He is a "hermit" (like me. LOL) and I can see why he loves to get his way and do things a certain way, so do I....so do we ALL....he's just a man...a musician...a human being. DUR. LOL

Sugar

09-13-2002, 09:51 PM

I have to say I never thought of Lindsey as angst-ridden or tortured either, let alone trying to affect that. I mean, what are going off of to get to that conclusion? His unappreciated artistic weirdness? Yeah, he had some friction, but I think that was just frustration at people always getting in the way of, what I'm guessing, was his clear artistic vision. Not him wrestling with any personal demons. Then there's the stories of various "anger issues" our dear Lindsey has been reported to have. But hell, is anger and violence angst? I mean, we're not going to label Motley Crue as angst-ridden are we? I can even see people thinking he's cocky! But I'm still not at angst. To me angst is Kurt Cobain. Even Brian Wilson is a little grey for me in this area because I was under the impression that he actually had a diagnosed mental condition. That ain't angst, that's chemical.

I just keep thinking about when I saw him for the OOTC tour. I too saw him in a very small venue and was right up front. At one point he said something about not having been on tour in a while and the audience started yelling, "Yeah it's been too long," and stuff like that. When the audence wouldn't stop he finally stepped back from the microphone and looked at the other guitar players, seemingly at a loss. He seemed genuinely surprised, even embarassed, that he had fans that WANTED to hear him play solo. He finally hushed us and came back to the microphone and said something like he wouldn't let it happen again. :rolleyes: No angst here!

Oh, and I DID get backstage to meet him. He was very nice and very cordial, had no problem signing a couple of autographs and even complimented my friend on his t-shirt (A Misfits t-shirt! Who'd a thought!).

The whole angst thing never even ocurred to me until I saw these recent threads on it.

CarneVaca

09-13-2002, 09:54 PM

Jeffles, how can I put this politely? You are wrong, wrong, wrong. Don't tell me the man doesn't have a personality of his own, as you have implied. Don't tell me that he's just a carbon copy of Brian Wilson, as you have implied. Come on, man. If he's so unoriginal, what exactly do you find appealing about the man?

Wondergirl, if you don't think he's still a tortured soul, listen to his lyrics from the GOS tracks. Don't get me wrong; you do make some lucid points about how do we really know? But I'm going by the lyrics. That's my evidence.

Carole Ann, as usual, your perspective is very much appreciated by old Carne, though the image of poopies was not terribly appealing.

sulamith

09-13-2002, 09:59 PM

I know I am joining this late, but like I said in the other thread, I think there is somewhat of an undercurrent there, and I am basing it on lyrics as well.
Why all the longing and regret still?

wondergirl9847

09-13-2002, 10:01 PM

I have seen the PBS special of him with his backupers (LOL) and he is having a BLAST up there BUT he also looks as if he's having a BLAST when he's up there with FM too. Jammin' with ol' Mick N' John N' Christine (sigh... :( )

I mean, his lyrics to lots of his songs are very dark, yes, but I've written some things that you guys would read and go, "OMG, she's got issues, or she needs help!!" but, it was a moment in my life where I needed to GET IT OUT and LET OFF STEAM (like Eminem) so that I could GET ON WITH LIFE. Like Lindsey, I write sometimes to vent frustration and he and I seem to be more adept at writing our feelings down rather than speaking them....JMO. :shrug:

CarneVaca

09-13-2002, 10:21 PM

Wondergirl and Sugar, your intepretation of what constitutes angst may differ from mine. I accept that, though I have the dictionary to back me up. But I don't buy that Lindsey's angst is an act. It simply isn't. He is one of the most honest-to-goodness genuine artists out there. I saw him on the OOTC tour, and I know what you mean about his humility. Yet he's a cocky son of a gun too. Guess what, folks? People are complex. One of the reasons The Sopranos has gotten so much acclaim is because its characters are complicated, multidimensional people. As are most real people, some more than others.

I have to keep going back to the lyrics. Read Hemingway, and tell me there wasn't a tortured soul. Read Leaving Las Vegas (the book, not the song). I too have written plenty, and some of it is so dark I don't know where it comes from (scaring Mrs. Carne occasionally). But I know it's me and there's darkness there. Then some other stuff is so light and silly, and that just shows the playful side of Carne. I guess I too am a complicated soul. As I'm sure most of you, if not all, are.

Sugar

09-13-2002, 10:29 PM

OK, there's some darkness going on, I never said Lindsey was perky! He's sardonic, reflective, I even see a bit of social commentary going on, but I'm just not at tortured! In fact I see a fair amount of optimism in GOS!

There's something to be said for separating the art from the man as well. I mean, if Leonard Cohen was half as depressed as he sounds in his songs, he'd a been dead after the first album!

Maybe it's time for some GOS lyric threads! :D Is Lindsey doomed to eternal anguish or has he "come in out of the darkness"? :laugh:

wondergirl9847

09-13-2002, 10:36 PM

I do NOT see his "dark side" as an act at all!! You are CORRECTAMUNDO in saying we are ALL complex and have various dimensions to our personality. We show some of them, but others, we keep to ourselves to either "save face" or keep a part of us for...well...us. It's just that saying someone is a "tortured soul" TO ME makes them seem "above" regular people (why I think that, I have no clue), it's wierd, I can't explain why. I just see him as a dude who loves music, likes to write and is complicated like EVERYONE else on this planet. Sometimes, we all try to be so simplistic...but life is not that simple...too many gray areas to deal with, too many questions unanswered...

Okay, getting too deep here!! LMAO!!!

Les

09-23-2002, 04:02 PM

I’ve never considered that Lindsey was playing “schtick” or affecting a personality type. Dangerous ground on these boards, I know, but I grant him more dignity and respect than that. ;) He is who he is. He identified with Brian, I think, because he saw someone who struggled to be and do something other than what the people around him wanted him to be and do. He identified with Brian's music certainly, but then arguably even more strongly with Brian because he saw someone “aspiring to be an individual” under great pressure to conform.

What leads one to be introspective, analytical, reflective to a greater degree than another? Who knows? Mightn’t it just be something in his makeup..in his personality…? A strong need from within that began very early and that he’s tried (and sometimes struggled) to understand? (I actually think several of his songs focus on that very issue.) Afterall, what leads a six year old boy to become so enamored of a musical instrument that he’d forego the more usual six year old’s activities to sit in his big brother’s room and obsessively learn to play the guitar all by himself? We, by no means, have any real grasp at all on the things that have gone into making him the kind of person that he is. But not having it spelled out for me in an episode of Oprah doesn’t diminish the strength of what I hear coming through in the music. In some ways, it may even add to it.

For my buck, life is essentially a process of searching for the things that mean something to you. Finding the gem here and the gem there, amongst the many falsely glittering objects, balances out the journey and gives you a certain base to hold fast to. But it doesn’t necessarily diminish the desire to continue to search as your life evolves and you find meaning in different areas. Perhaps some people just feel that search more intensely and aren't disuaded from pursuing it because of how "angsty" it might appear to others.

That being said, Lindsey’s far too often pigeon-holed as one thing and never allowed to be anything else. But he is, like all of us, so much else. Being on these boards…any boards with a narrow scope of focus, has the tendency to de-personalize the individuals in this band some times. Analysis of somebody’s every quirk, twitch and blink starts to make them less human and more character. Less some one to consider, more some thing to be judged and dismantled and put in the role we want them to play. But he is, as has been stated before, the same kind of multidimensional person that we all are. Lindsey’s clearly got a very conflicted side. He’s also got a pretty goofy and optimistic side. As the man himself says, “nobody falls into a simple set of labels.”

Interesting topic...

Johnny Stew

09-23-2002, 04:42 PM

Les... I haven't read anything here in a very long time (if ever) that gave me the desire to stand up and applaud, but you definitely provoked that feeling with your post.

You managed to very eloquently say all of the things I would have never been able to articulate.

Each member of Fleetwood Mac is a very real human-being... with millions of facets to their personalities. Some flattering, some not so flattering.
(Just like the rest of us!)

Sometimes it is way too easy to pigeon-hole them. We're discussing their songs, their personalities, their images... basically disecting them, for all intents and purposes... but we're never going to really put a finger on what it is about them that makes them so fascinating.
At the end of the day, we just have to concede that it's because they're human.

And yes, there are some folks who prefer to focus on the positive aspects of these individuals... and some who seem preoccupied with all the negatives.
But hopefully the majority of people see them as well-rounded human beings, who are more than just the sum of their personality traits.

Thanks for that post, Les. :)

Johnny Stew