FM Family Tree [Archive]

wetcamelfood

07-30-2002, 02:08 PM

OK, I wasn't sure how far each "branch" was going to go but I found this (attachement) in the John Mayall compilation CD "Looking back"....

...so of course the only groups of interest here are 1-5 (and naturallly Mayall himself needs to be added to these lineups for "gtr/keyboards/harmonica/vocals" etc.).

I think I heard that Mcvie was fired on three seperate occasions for drinking (but I can't find specific dates) while with Mayall hence the "or Jack Bruce" parts of group three.

I understand group four with Aynsley ended in 3/67 while group four with Mick was from 4/67-6/67.

Group five really must have gone until 9/67 (and not 8/67) as we know that Mcvie would not leave Mayall originally (as the rest of FM recruited Bob Brunning for the 8/67-9/67 period) but did eventually leave Mayall to join FM in 9/67.

So, that (in effect) "takes care" of John Mcvie.

Now, I've been trying to sketch some things out but it seems it may work easier if we get something started and add to it from there. For instance, I'll start with Jeremy, as the only band I/we know of that he was in prior to FM was Litchfield England's "The Levi set" and (apparently) were a trio consisting of Jeremy (gtr/voc) and a bass player and a drummer but I can't seem to find the names of those two individuals. On top of which I can't find a solid time frame for them apart from the fact that they must have in essence "broke up" when Jeremy joined FM.

I'll list "what I've got" so far on the other "original" members below here but I'll put a "?" where I don't know something (and something like "Errol Dixon & The Honeydrippers" must have had more than PG & ED in the band but I left it at that as I don't know anything else about them other than what I listed) and hopefully some of you can help "fill them in" and we can move on from there (does this sound good Brian? or, should I PM/E mail you any additions? I wasn't sure how you/everyone else would like this to "take shape". Anyways, here's the "bare bones" of something to start with (in case it does turn out you'd like to do it here):

PETER GREEN

Group: Bobby Dennis(?/Denim?) & the Dominoes (originally knowm as"The ken cats"
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass), Bobby Dennis(?/Denim?) (?)

Group: The Didlos
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass)

Group: The Muskrats
Time frame: ?
Lineup: Peter Green (bass), Dave Bidwell (drums), Roger Pearce (guitar)

Group: The Tridents
Time frame: "Spring" 1965 - 9/65
Lineup: Peter Green (bass)

Group: John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
Time frame: 10/65 (only a couple of weeks, PG filled in for EC while he was in Greece)
Lineup: Peter Green (guitar), John Mayall (gtr/keyboards/harmonica/vocals), John Mcvie/Jack Bruce (bass), Hughie Flint (drums)

Group: Errol Dixon & The Honeydrippers
Time frame: 11/65-1/66 (only one gig, rest of time unemployed)
Lineup: Peter Green (guitar), Errol Dixon (keyboards)

Groups: Peter B's Looners (see Johnny Stew's attachements)...and so on.

BOB BRUNNING

Group: Lee Peterson & The Defenders
Time frame: 1960's?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Lee Peterson (voc?), ? (gtr), ? (gtr), ? (sax), ? (drums?)

Group: Five's Company
Time frame: 1965?-8/67?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Colin Jordan (gtr), Ian Pearson (drums), Eddie Broadbridge (vocals), Steve Jones (keyboards)

...then he went to FM and then the "post" FM bands (Savoy Brown, Brunning Sunflower... and so on but I wasn't sure if you just wanted "pre" ones or what. Whatever you think, let me know how "completest" you want to be on this and whether I should PM/E mail you further additions or what OK? Thanks Brian. :)

John

bjk3047

07-30-2002, 10:56 PM

Well done John! Can't ask for much more thourough info than that! First off, I'd say additions should stay here in this thread, always good to have everything together in one place. It's up for debate really, as to what to do with Bob. I'd say, in the spirit of the care we'd take with LB or SN's solo endeavors, it would make sense to map it all out. He was technically a member of the Mac. However, it just means more work in finding the info and finding room on the tree lol. Should be fine though.

Regarding the construction of the tree, I'm going to have to do it manually by taking Pete Frame's 1990 edition (courtesy of Johnny Stew, big help!), constructing a font based on that, and just simply adding to it. Since it just comes down to adding lines, it should look the same and as professional as the truncated original. Once I get the scans and make the font, I'll make some prototypes and post them so we can see if it comes out the way envisioned. This could be a very interesting project!
-Brian

wetcamelfood

07-31-2002, 06:17 AM

Sounds great to me, I'll try and get together some info on Bob Brunning's "post" Mac band lineups and post them here later today (in case everyone does decide to "keep him in" and want the "post" as well as "pre" FM band lineups for his "branch" (if it is kept).

Sorry, but I've got more questions, since you say you'd like to eventually document things such as SN & LB's solo touring/recording "bands" (when we get there!) should I go by the same "rule" for, say, Peter Green as since after FM he had his "End of the game" album and he did do some solo shows (I'd have to look up to see if those solo shows had the same lineup as the album but even then, I don't know if I have access to the "touring band" info or not...) but I hardly think it's the same thing to call it a "band" he had in 1970 for that album (as I thought I heard rumors to the effect that EOTG may very well have been a "contractual obligation" he had to fulfill with Reprise) especially since his next (fully fledged) band/album project wasn't until "In the skies" (which may make that an extra elongated branch!). So, in the end, would you/everyone like "those" kinds of things listed as well? Either way is fine with me. It would be easy enough to me to list the "main band" musicians on most of the albums as I've got virtually all of them but I wasn't sure how you/everyone felt about some of these things, know what I mean?). Thanks again Brian and in the meantime I'll get researching on post Mac Brunning soon!

John

wetcamelfood

07-31-2002, 12:47 PM

Two areas to keep in mind for Bob Brunning are:

FIVE'S COMPANY - they did "reform" (though I'm not clear as to whether it was just an on record reforming or what) in 1969 for the "Ballad of Fred the pixie" album. The lineup was Brunning on bass, Colin Jordan (guitar) & Eddie Broadbridge (though he had to be credited on the album as Eddie St. John for legal reasons) on keyboards & vocals. The album doesn't state who plays drums though.

TRAMP - their first (classic!) album from 1969 had the lineup of Brunning on bass, Danny on guitar, Mick on drums, Bob Hall on keyboards, Dave Kelly (vocals) & Jo Ann Kelly (vocals). The second album, "Put a record on" from 1974 had the members of Tramp listed as all of the above but ALSO included Dave Brooks on sax and Ian Morton on percussion. Now it should also be noted that according to the notes on Mooncrest's 3 CD set of rare Jo Ann Kelly recordings (which include many Tramp recordings from 1974) that are of the following lineups:

"Put a record on (alternate version)" from her "Key to the highway" CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD037) lists Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Peter Emery (gtr) & Pete Miles (drums).

"'Til my back ain't got no bone", "It's too late for that now (alternate version)", "Feel like breaking up somebody's home" & "You got to move (alternate version)" from the "Talkin' low" CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD045) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Peter Emery (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), Dave Brooks (sax, though he's not on TMBAGNB) & Pete Miles (drums)

"'Til my back ain't got no bone (alternate version)", "Love blind", "Nicki hoeky", "Feel like breaking up somebody's home (alternate version)", "Put a record on (another alternate version!)", "Help me through the night" & "Travellin' mood" from the Jo Ann Kelly "Tramp" album (Mooncrest, CRESTCD063) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Pete Emery (gtr), Adrian "putty" Pietyga (gtr), Dave Brooks (sax), Pete Miles (drums) & "The Kokomo singers" (backing vocals).

"Baby what you want me to do (live)", "It's too late for that now (live)", "What you gonna do (live)", "You don't love me baby (live)", "Put a record on (live)" & "You got to move (live)" from the same CD (Mooncrest, CRESTCD063) list Brunning on bass, Jo Ann Kelly (voc), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Kirwan (gtr), Dave Brooks (sax) & Keef Hartley (drums).

...so, I wasn't sure how and/or if you wanted to include these "side" bands or not (especially since these "rare" Tramp recordings simply specify that it was "1974" it doesn't say when in relation to the PARO sessions any of it was so it would be hard to put this stuff in "order"), whatever you/everyone thinks is fine with me, I'm just passing on the info as best I can. So, I'll now proceed to what I came up with (for a start anways) for the Brunning "post Mac" branch:

after leaving FM...

Group: Savoy Brown
Time line: 9/67-10/67
Members: Brunning (bass), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), Chris Youlden (voc), Martin Stone (gtr), Leo Manning (drums)

Group: Savoy Brown
Time line: 10/67-12/67?
Members: Brunning (bass), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Bob Hall (keyboards), "Lonesome" Dave Peverett (gtr/voc), Chris Youlden (voc), Hughie Flint (drums)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1968?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Colin Jordan (gtr), Jeff Russell (drums), Pete French (voc), Mick Halls (gtr)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1969?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Colin Jordan (gtr), Pete Banham (drums)

Group: Brunning Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1970?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Dave Kelly (gtr/voc), Jo Ann Kelly (gtr/voc), Steve Rye (harmonica), John Altman (sax/flute/clarinet), Mel Wright (drums)

Group: Brunning (Hall) Sunflower Blues Band
Time line: 1971?
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Pat Grover (gtr/voc), John Hunt (drums, tour only), Leo Manning/Barry Guard (drums, album only), Jo Ann Kelly (gtr/voc, album only), Steve Rye (harmonica, album only), John O'Leary (harmonica, album only)

...then on to the...

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1980-1987
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Adler (gtr/voc), Mickey Waller (drums)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line:1988-1990
Members: Brunning (bass), Bob Hall (keyboards), Danny Adler (gtr/voc), Mickey Waller (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line 1991-1992 (inactive)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1993-1997
Members: Brunning (bass), Dave Beaumont (gtr), Allan Vincent (gtr), Phil Taylor (voc), Mickey Waller (drums), Dick Heckstall-Smith (sax)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 1998-1999 (inactive)

Group: The Deluxe Blues Band
Time line: 2000-(Present)?
Members: Brunning (bass), Daniel Smith (gtr), Dennis Mcgrath (gtr), Bill Smith (harmonica), Russell Baillie (voc), Reg Patton (drums)

So, I'll wait to see what (all of) you think about the PG question I posted about earlier before I delve in to his solo "bands". Any questions Brian, just let me know.

John

Johnny Stew

07-31-2002, 02:13 PM

Here's a thought... instead of seperate branches for the solo endeavors... which might needlessly complicate the tree... how about an appendix for each Mac member (well, except those who've had their appendex removed ;) ).

In the case of someone who has toured with more than one of the members, there can be a little notation next to their name.

For instance....
under Fleetwood Mac: Additional Tour Personnel, there would be a listing for Brett Tuggle... who would then have a notation stating "see also Mick Fleetwood's Zoo, and Stevie Nicks: Solo Tour Personnel."

And Neale Heywood's listing would say, "see also Lindsey Buckingham: Solo Tour Personnel, and Stevie Nicks: Solo Tour Personnel."

Then, if it's decided to do so, we can always add something like "Neale has also worked with Peter Bardens and Walter Egan."

And so on, and so on.

Anyway, it's just a thought. :-)

Johnny Stew

bjk3047

07-31-2002, 03:41 PM

Well I would've thought that would've been the fun of making such an expansive tree - the fact that it was so complex. As real family trees go, lots of families and cousins and second wives, that's the fun of it! lol I'd think an appendix would make it too segmented. But that's my thought, I don't really see anyone else's opinion other than mine and Johnny and John, cmon people!!
-Brian

wetcamelfood

07-31-2002, 06:23 PM

I take it that you would like me to include the PG solo stuff (as it seems you would like this thing to be as juicy as possible!) so I'll see what I can find tomorrow on that. Talk to you then. :)

John

Johnny Stew

07-31-2002, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by bjk3047
Well I would've thought that would've been the fun of making such an expansive tree - the fact that it was so complex.

:laugh:
Well, that is true!
I was thinking my suggestion might make the task a little easier on you, Brian, but if you're willing to climb all the branches, then more power to ya!
:D

By the way, did the files I e-mailed you make it thru ok? Nothing was bounced back, so I assume they werent too big for your account.

Johnny Stew

bjk3047

07-31-2002, 10:48 PM

I'm definately up for it! I completely forgot to check my account! I got the files, they're beautiful. Couldn't have better stuff to work with. I'll make a font and put a couple pieces on by tomorrow and post them so we can see some solid progress. I'm actually looking forward to this :D:D
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-01-2002, 08:55 AM

OK Brian, I realized I forgot to post the POST FM Jeremy stuff so I'll put that after Peter's Post FM stuff. Now, I just had to go by the personnel of the albums (except where noted) as I found very little info on who was involved with PG & JS's live shows (and when they took place if at all) but at least it would be something to get down to start the branch anyways and then additions/corrections could always be added later, perhaps Mario could help with some of the "live PG lineups/dates" info? Once again though, things like PG's 1972 "band", the only people I "know" of that played on the 2 '72 Reprise singles were PG & Nigel Watson so I couldn't list anything further though there are obviously other people involved on there. Also, I had to "assume" a few things such as, Peter Bardens played on PG's "In the skies" album but I've never heard any data suggesting that he was in Peter's "band" at the time so I left him out. Anyways, here's the "meat & potatoes" of what I've got here on these two:

PETER GREEN (POST FM)

...after FM...

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1970?
Members: PG (gtr), Nick Buck (keyboards, album & "tour"), Zoot Money (keyboards), Godfrey Maclean (Drums), Alex Dimochowski (bass)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1972?
Members: PG (gtr), Nigel Watson (voc?)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1979?
Members: PG (gtr/voc), Snowy White (gtr), Lennox Langton (percussion), Reg Isadore (drums), Kuma Harada (bass)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1980?
Members: PG (gtr/voc), Ronnie Johnson (gtr), Morris Pert (percussion), Dave Mattacks (drums), Kuma Harada (bass), Paul Westwood (bass), John Edwards (bass), Roy Shipston (keyboards)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1981?
Members: PG (gtr/voc), Mo Foster (bass), Lennox Langton (percussion), Jeff Daly (sax), Dave Mattacks (drums), Paul Westwood (bass), Roy Shipston (keyboards)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1982?
Members: PG (gtr/voc), Reg Isadore (drums), Larry Steele (bass), Webster Johnson (keyboards), Jeff Whittaker (percussion)

Group: (Peter Green Band)
Time line: 1983?
Members: PG (gtr/voc), Reg Isadore (drums), Larry Steele (bass), Webster Johnson (keyboards), Jeff Whittaker (percussion), Bob Bowman (slide gtr), Trevor Orten (pan pipes)

Group: Peter Green Splinter Group
Time line: 1996-1997
Members: PG (gtr/har/voc), Nigel Watson (gtr/voc), Neil Murray (bass), Spike Edney (keyboards), Cozy Powell (drums)

Group: Peter Green Splinter Group
Time line: 1998?
Members: PG (gtr/har/voc), Nigel Watson (gtr/voc), Neil Murray (bass), Roger Cotton (keyboards), Larry Tolfree (drums)

Group: Peter Green Splinter Group
Time line: 1999-(present)
Members: PG (gtr/har/voc), Nigel Watson (gtr/voc), Roger Cotton (keyboards), Larry Tolfree (drums), Peter Stroud (bass)

...now JEREMY SPENCER (POST FM)

...after FM...

Group: Jeremy Spencer & The Children
Time line: 1972?
Members: JS (gtr/keyboards/voc), Michael (gtr/har/voc), Phil Ham (gtr/flute/sitar), Moriah (voc/tamb), Boaz (bass/voc/recorder), Ginnethon (drums)

Group: (Jeremy Spencer Band)
Time line: 1979?
Members: JS (gtr/voc), Michael Fogarty (keyboards/voc), Jeff Schoen (keyboards), Neal Jason (bass), Al Izzo (drums), Buz Buchanan (drums), Victor Salazar (percussion)

Group: (Jeremy Spencer Band)
Time line: 1999?
Members: JS (gtr/voc), Mike Creswel (keyboards), Adrian Fernandes (drums), Rupert Fernandes (gtr), Taufiq Qureshi (percussion), Vas Myers (bass), Jono D'Sousa (keyboards), Makoto Nobuka (gtr), Tim Forsberg (percussion), Christy Gibson (backing voc), Joy Pascarelli (backing voc)

...phew! So, that takes care of all of the "original" members. I need a break! LOL! Let me know Brian when you are ready to proceed (as I assume this will keep you busy for a while) and I guess we'll just take a member at a time, next up Danny Kirwan. I look forward to hearing how things are going so far. :)

John

wetcamelfood

08-01-2002, 10:00 AM

Brian, I forgot that I found this (attached) "Tramp tree" inside the Jo Ann Kelly "Tramp 1974" CD booklet so hopefully you can just refer to this now and ignore my badly explained ramblings about Tramp which I posted here before remembering that this was in that CD case.

John

chiliD

08-01-2002, 10:17 AM

I guess I'll just drop little bits & pieces of trivia and tie up some loose ends here & there:

Bob Hall-Piano (original keyboard player for Savoy Brown)

Here's a Beatle connection:

Keef Hartley: Before taking Mick Fleetwood's place in Bluesbreakers, he was the second replacement for Ringo Starr in Rory Storm & The Hurricanes; then I see by the Tramp tree, he once again took a spot in a band that Mick had filled. (Just don't tell me that someday our favorite band will be called "Hartley Mac" will it?).:laugh:

I'm just going off the top of my head and don't have the documentation in front of me at the moment, but some of those later Peter Green "bands" actually had names:

Kolors
Katmandu

But, off the top of my head, I can't remember the chronology of them.

John, the current Splinter Group lineup has been together since August of 1998...Pete stroud replaced Neil Murray right before their US tour.

wetcamelfood

08-01-2002, 12:22 PM

...for letting me know about the correct date that Stroud replaced Murray in PGSG. As I say, I only had the albums so I just had to assume from those as to the "replacement dates" but at least Brian can make that change now and we can just keep adding to it to get it as accurate as possible before too long. :)

John

bjk3047

08-01-2002, 12:58 PM

Small update - The font really isn't working as I had envisioned...it's just way too rough. Sooo I'm entertaining other ideas :D In other words, back to square one. The only thing I can think of is copy paste from the existing letters and add manually. It works, I tried a little of it, but it's quite tedious. Suggestions frmo the Peanut Gallery?
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-01-2002, 01:26 PM

Sunds OK to me Brian, at least it would be the same effect whereby you'd be pasting over the original info at the time just to get the tree up and then if there's additions/corrections later, those can be pasted in after.

I'll still wait to hear from you before I move on to Danny but I wanted to ask...

Is the "Group, Time line, Members" format I've been posting them in been of use in so far as making it easy for you to copy and paste them over from? (if it turns out you go with this way of doing it)

Naturally, I guess you'd have to put in the attachments ones manually which seems a bummer but at least you know that way (and the "copy and paste" deal) works so you won't have to go all of the way into it and start over again (like now!). You'll know that once you do it, it's there for good. I can imagine how tedious it must be but that's why I figured it wouldn't be so disjointed if we started with the original members and just adding a new member at a time but I really don't know, I'll keep thinking of other ways...

Anyways, that's my two cents, but I'll go with the majority. So let me know if I should continue posting under the same "format" or if it should be a different one, let me know how you'd like stuff posted (obviously, depending on which approach is decided on for putting it together) and let me know when your caught up and I'll start researching Danny.

John

Les

08-01-2002, 04:04 PM

From the pictures Johnny Stew posted -- perhaps the Fritz lineup can be corrected to say "Bob Aguirre" rather than "Bob Geary"? ;)

wetcamelfood

08-01-2002, 08:04 PM

Since I was listing "side" projects (such as Tramp just in case they were considered relevant), I forgot to list these for "original" members Mick & John earlier so the "originals" should be completely covered now! It's fine with me if it's decided against adding these but I just thought I'd pass them along so it can be hashed around (once again, I'm just going by the album credits as I don't have any other documentation for exact dates etc. but at least that can be added later if necessary):

JOHN MCVIE

Group: John Mcvie's Gotta Band (with Lola Thomas)
Time line: 1992?
Members: JM (bass), Lola Thomas (voc), Lee Spath (drums), David Plenn (gtr), Mick Taylor (gtr), Jim Pugh (keyboards), Wayne Jackson (horns), Andrew Love (horns), Brad Dutz (percussion), Billy Burnette (gtr/backing voc), George Hawkins (backing voc)

MICK fLEETWOOD

Group: (Mick Fleetwood Band)
Time line: 1981?
Members: MF (drums), George Hawkins (bass/voc), Todd Sharp (gtr/voc), Lord Tiki (congas)

Group: Mick Fleetwood's Zoo
Time Line: 1983?
Members: MF (drums), George Hawkins (bass/voc), Steve Ross (gtr/voc), Billy Burnette (gtr/voc)

Group: The Zoo
Time Line: 1992?
Members: MF (drums), Bekka Bramlett (voc), Billy Thorpe (gtr/voc), Gregg Wright (gtr), Tom Lilly (bass), Brett Tuggle (keyboards)

...I know some may feel as though these don't count but I know some might think these may be considered obvious for inclusion and that they should not be forgotten so I just thought I'd run them by everyone so we can decide if they are to be included or whatever. OK, NOW I'll wait until your caught up Brian! :)

John

Johnny Stew

08-01-2002, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Les
perhaps the Fritz lineup can be corrected to say "Bob Aguirre" rather than "Bob Geary"? ;)
Good catch, Les! :)

Yeah, we definitely need to peruse that family tree to correct any other mistakes there may be. I remember thinking there were a couple, but now I can't remember exactly what they were.

Here's another question for Brian... do you want the info for the "bogus" Fleetwood Mac, or are we leaving them off completely?

Johnny Stew

bjk3047

08-01-2002, 11:18 PM

First off, I attatched a file of the template I made to try and makes things a little speedier. Someone holler if I missed something that would add to the efficiency.

I fixed Mr. "Geary"s name. And Johnny's right, please do ppint out anymore errors befor I start adding to the tree. It may be difficult to add after the fact, so (and this is key) ***let's make alterations before additions*** Some have been mentioned (such as "Various" replacements I believe John brought up), but I can't quite remember, so do post them again.

I think we should probably just stick with the real Fleetwood Mac. Oh and also, I think we should restrict entries to live lineups. Thus, LB Law And Order and Go Insane would not appear. That's how the tree was originally constructed and it would be good to keep it to a standard. SO, we should refine entries for Mick and John and Bob's solo gigs to meet that criteria. Makes sense?

-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-02-2002, 06:11 AM

Sounds (and looks, from the attachment) great to me Brian. OK sticking to "live" only is cool with me. I guess I should kinda "step down" though as I must admit, I'm not all that authoritive on the "live" lineups and since it seems you would rather have all of the info FIRST and THEN add it to make sure that it is all correct (as I wasn't aware that it would be hard to make corrections later) I wouldn't want to bombard you with all of this info from albums when you may not even need/want it but I do agree with everything you said (I really like the font you came up with there, looks to me just like Pete Frame's one, Great stuff!) and I'm looking forward to seeing the finished results. :)

I was thining though that there are things like, say, Bob Weston (when you get there), whereby he was in bands like say, Ashkan or Long John Baldry's band but I can't even think where to start on getting further info on some "live" data on them but I do have the relevant albums etc. so if you ever do want lineups from the albums or whatever, just let me know and I'll pass them on to you here. OK? Thanks guys, this looks and sounds really cool to me already!

John

bjk3047

08-02-2002, 11:24 AM

Don't get me wrong John! It's only hard to add, say, another person to a band due to the fact that there's a wing right next to it that I would've added. I can correct info like Bob "Geary" in the wink of an eye, so if you have even vague info, it's a starting place. Such as the album postings you have, at the very least, we assume that was the live lineup for a lot of them. So please do continue to contribute, as you're one OF THE FEW AHEM AHEM ;)
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-02-2002, 12:05 PM

Okies, I WILL continue on this, I'm glad because in a few cases, I figured it would be easier to take someone out as opossed to adding someone in later so that's why I've overcompensated with some of them such as, (I think it was some of...) the PG albums, which had a couple of drummers listed and, although possible, it's doubtlful that there was more than one on the road with him at a time so I included both so that way I figured once we find out which one it was on the tour in question for certain, then the extra one could be taken away and then it would be cleared up quickly and easily.

So, since it seems you would prefer to have as much of the info as possible beforehand, should I just continue on now with Danny's branch then or shoud I wait? As I say, I don't want to swamp you and the "extra notes" bits (like "they knew (so and so) from (this band)") I think will take longer investigations etc. (and I probably would've looked in to those things after getting all of the people/instruments/dates down first) so I didn't know how much info you wanted to collect here before actually starting the tree).

John

bjk3047

08-02-2002, 12:49 PM

We need to take a few steps back so I can cover everything and not skip anything. I added what I believe to be all the extra pieces of Bluesbreakers as annotated in John's attatchment on the first page of this thread. I apologize for the zoom out, but I had to catch everything. Tell me if I missed anything!
And corrections to existing info pleeeeze!
And then I need to know what to add next.
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-02-2002, 01:51 PM

I've got two attachments here regarding Shotgun Express (I tried to do it all in one but it was too big) so check the last paragraph of this one out (I hope it comes out OK)...

wetcamelfood

08-02-2002, 02:03 PM

...and the top paragraph of this one...

This is from a 10" EP I have (which compiles both sides of the 2 SE singles). It appears as though there was much guitar spot shuffling going on and by all means, if everyone would pefer to leave it as is on the tree and just have it be notations then fine with me but I personally think that it tends to get overlooked in books and whatnot that Peter Green DIDN'T play on either of the SE singles and I would hope that by illustrating that in their short life that they have had some changes so that it may help some in the future with their own investigations etc. JMHO though.

So, IF it's decided to outline it all, should it be:

SE 1 5/66-7/66
Green, Fleetwood, Bardens, Ambrose, Stewart, Marsden

SE 2 7/66-12/66?
Mooreshead, Fleetwood, Bardens, Ambrose, Stewart, Marsden

SE 3 12/66?-2/67
Sawyer, Fleetwood, Bardens, Ambrose, Stewart, Marsden

..... (as the tree (as it stands) shows that PG had joined Mayall in 7/66)? As I say either way is cool with me but you're right Brian we should try to nip these things in the bud. It looks really cool to me so far by the way! Who knows though, maybe these liner notes I have are inaccurate?! :)

John

bjk3047

08-03-2002, 09:59 PM

I decided to save a little bandwidth on the Ledge and make a crappy little webpage for updates to the tree. So when I mention an update, I'll add a link to this page so you all can see what I screwed up ;)
http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

Anyway, I added the Shotgun Express pieces. Additions, corrections, etc. please. What's up next?
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-04-2002, 07:43 AM

Oh yeah geez, I forgot all about the bandwidth thing.

OK, I'm trying to think, it's hard to say since I'm not sure what's the easiest for you and all but my guess is that it LOOKS like it seems eaisest for you to work on the top parts of the tree and go chronologically rather than adding a band members entire branch at a time (as I had originally thought). So I guess that's my question to you, would you rather put all of of the 60's stuff in now? (like Jeremy's "Levi set" (if we can find out the other 2 members names somewhere but I've had no luck yet), Bob Brunning's early bands or even future members like early bands of say, Dave Mason (Jaguars, Hellions etc.) (as I see you have Fritz there already, that's the only reason I figured it may be easiest for you to start with all of the old stuff now and then work towards the newer stuff) Whatever you think, I'll provide whatever info I can (that would be easiest for you to add) accordingly. :)

Now for corrections, I hope some of the others will notice things I haven't but the only thing I noticed on the tree site blow ups were that you had the link from Shotgun Express for PG go to Mayall on the Mayall thumbnail but you didn't have the line go from SE to Mayall on the Shotgun thumbnail. There's probably a good reason for this but I just thought I'd point it out. Also, I wasn't sure if you'd want info on what each lineup recorded or whatever for the "blurbs" parts (like what Pete Frame has under the band name and dates of his tree entries) if anything. It's fine with me if you don't want to add any of that stuff but I just thought I'd ask now so in case you want that stuff now, I could give what info I've got on the bands you've already out lined or whatever you know what I mean? Anyways, looks great to me so far and let me know.

John

bjk3047

08-04-2002, 03:17 PM

The Peter Green line: thank you, it was on my to do list after repositioning stuff and never got added lol

Date and things: I took all the orignal stuff off just to simplify so we wouldn't have to worry about adding stuff like that. We can just concentrate on the tree itself.

I can see the quandry we're in regarding how to add pieces, but organizationally, I think it'll make the most sense to add the most relavant stuff together. (Ex. wouldn't want the Splinter Group right next to the BN FM lineup, it would make more sense to add a SN solo tour lineup next to the BN FM lineup.) So basically I think we should add stuff about 1 or 2 lineups per person at a time. Make sense?
In that rationale, I'd need all the pre-FM stuff for Bob Brunning next.

Oh and by the way, Fritz was in there before, I didn't put it in. Just so happens that that's going to have move way over to the right lol.

I added the most recent reincarnations of the Mac with a few date holes: Birth and death dates (for lack of a better term lol) for the following:

Death for the Behind the Mask group (sometime in 92?)
B and D for the Time group (92? to 96?)
Birth for the Dance group (96?)

-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-04-2002, 03:43 PM

OK, first things first, here's the Brunning pre-FM stuff again (as best as I know anyways):

Group: Lee Peterson & The Defenders
Time frame: 1960's?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Lee Peterson (voc?), ? (gtr), ? (gtr), ? (sax), ? (drums?)

Group: Five's Company
Time frame: 1965?-8/67?
Lineup: Bob Brunning (bass), Colin Jordan (gtr), Ian Pearson (drums), Eddie Broadbridge (vocals), Steve Jones (keyboards)

Now "birth & death" for BTM, what you said sounds OK to me but I guess it's really hard to say as Rick "left" (I heard) in 12/91 but then of course he was there for the Superbowl 27 show from Jan. '93 (and Stevie wasn't, we're not gonna bother with having that shows line up as a line and the Clinton ball be another one as well are we?! :) ) and it's always been a mystery to me as to who is playing gtr on "Love shines", "Heart of stone" etc.

B & D for "Time" It's a little hazy but I think I heard the news come down on Bekka & Dave M joining FM in Sep.(?) of '93 and there never was an "announcement" (as far as I know of) for their "death" (anyone else know any better info than me & Brian on this?) and well, I guess I can't really add anything to what you said about "The dance" lineup so once again my standard line, which is "whatever everyone else goes with is cool with me" :)

John

bjk3047

08-04-2002, 08:36 PM

Well, I added Five's Company, and checked Bob's official site, he refers to "a few garage bands" before Five's Company. So if even he doesn't feel it important enough to acknowledge it...lol I did check quite thoroughly and came up with no mention of Lee Peterson.
Added: Five's Company, Christine's SHADES of Blue,not Sounds of Blue, Danny Kirwan's Boilerhouse, Fleetwood Mac post 87
http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html
Next up:
Anyone know anything about Jeremy Spencer's Levi Set Blues Group?
Peter Green's Bobby Denim & the Dominoes, Tridents, and Muskrats?
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-05-2002, 07:40 AM

The additions look great Brian!

I've attached the picture (with caption on the Lee Peterson group just for your info, I'm completely cool with it if you do leave them off the tree as we don't have any other data on them (and as you say if even Bob doesn't say anything about them on his site too!) then it's fine with me to leave it off but I just thought I'd pas it along in case someone out there maybe has some extra info on them and this caption & picture may jog their memory (I giot this from Bob's "Blues: The British connection" book but I couldn't find any other mentioin of this band anywhere within the book's pages).

I was thinking though in the case of Steve Thoma as he (as far as I know anyways) wsan't actually a "member" as such but there to "help out", should the lines attaching him be "clipped"? (like "- - - - -" ) as I thought I'd noticed Pete Frame had done this in cases such as this on other trees. Once again, it doesn't matter to me but it was just a thought based on what he does but of course that's not to say that's what we have to do but I'll go with the majority vote on this whatever it is. :)

As I've already passed on what I could about JS & PG's early bands, I'll have to wait with you Brian to see if anyone else can add anything else on them too. Hopefully we'll hear from someone else soon on this! :)

John

chiliD

08-05-2002, 11:41 AM

The Behind The Mask lineup ended in December 1990.

From 1991-1993, there were many different lineups (the "weird period"), but none "official".

There was the "Rumours" era reunion for the Clinton inaugural

There was the Mick, John, Billy, Rick, Christine lineup that played the Super Bowl pre-game show within a couple of weeks either side of the Clinton gig (I don't recall which came first chronologically)

There were a few "private corporate party" gigs that featured just the guys: Mick, John, Billy & Rick

There was the "Love Shines" video from 1992 with lineup of: Mick, John, Christine, & Billy

Johnny Stew

08-05-2002, 04:01 PM

I've been thinking all along that we're gonna have a dickens of a time trying to pin down dates for the 1990-1997 period.

December 1990 is correct for the end date of the 'Behind The Mask' line-up, but it still leaves a lot of open-threads.

For one thing, like chiliD said, there's the matter of the new songs on '25 Years - The Chain,' and then the Clinton gig, the Super Bowl gig (which I believe followed the Clinton thing by one week... two at the most), the "Love Shines" video, the period in which Billy had left the band and then re-joined, and then the arrival of Bekka and Dave.

Ultra-complicated... and I don't see an easy way of making those comings and goings concise and clear.

Maybe a little side-bar would do the trick?
Something to the effect of:

The years 1991 thru 1993 were relatively inactive for Fleetwood Mac. Christine declined to tour after 1990, but agreed to continue recording with the band. Stevie also decided to quit touring with Fleetwood Mac, and had initially agreed to remain a recording member.
After a personal squabble between her and Fleetwood (over the song "Silver Springs"), Nicks decided to quit the band outright in 1991. At this time Vito also gave his resignation.
Nicks and Vito, as well as Buckingham, did make a few one-off appearances with Fleetwood Mac during this time period, both in the studio (for the boxed-set compilation, '25 Years - The Chain') and for live performances (most notably a reunion of the 'Rumours' lineup for the inauguration of William Jefferson Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States).
Burnette left briefly in 1992 to resume his solo career, but re-joined in time to be a part of the 12th official edition of Fleetwood Mac, which spent its first couple years on the road.

then for the 12th lineup, Christine's entry can have a little notation that says, "studio only"... or something to that effect.

But anyway, that's just a thought... and beyond that, we're probably getting ahead of ourselves here.

Johnny Stew

chiliD

08-05-2002, 05:40 PM

At the time of the Clinton Inaugural, I would say the only "active" members of Fleetwood Mac were Mick & John.

bjk3047

08-06-2002, 12:16 AM

It's the same question as "Who were the active members of Fleetwood Mac in 1985?" Well...no one really, but you might as well just list the BN lineup.
That said, I think we should just list the substantial tours. Tango lineup until Dec 90, Time lineup Dec 90 - May 97. It's just to hard to distinguish otherwise. Right?

On another tangent, I did some research on PG and the Tridents and got the following:

About the TRIDENTS, Jeff Beck has (finally after seeing this fanzine) confirmed that the drummer was Ray Cook, bass/vocals Paul Lucas, and rhythm guitar/vocals was John Lucas.
So where's Greeny? And can anyone do any better than 1963? Too many questions I tell ya.

And for the Muskrats, I could only find this reference:
The birth of the John Dummer Blues Band in 1965 evolved from two English groups namely The Muskrats and The Grebbells. Known as one of the most hard working blues bands in the UK, they were chosen to back up the touring concerts of John Lee Hooker and Howling Wolf. Their line-up included the ever talented Dave Kelly and his remarkable sister Joanne Kelly on vocals. Bob Hall on keyboards with Mike Cooper completed one of the finest blues ensembles to play the underground pub scene in the mid sixties.
So can anyone figure who came from the Muskrats?
That's about the best I can do with this stuff.
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-06-2002, 06:18 AM

This is from page 112 of Bob Brunning's "Blues: The British Connection" (attached). Maybe this isn't "concrete" but it does state that Dave Bidwell was on drums in The Muskrats. I've got a few other pages that state this too (like in the Peter Green bio etc.) but I sent this one as it talks about both bands here.

I'm sure I did read somewhere (though I can't remember for the life of me where) that Beck's Tridents was a different band to PG's Tridents (another case of "not to be confused with..."). I'll see if I have anything that says this on paper but I don't think I do. If I do though, I'll scan it here.

John

chiliD

08-06-2002, 09:15 AM

That's right, John, there were two (if not more) bands named "The Tridents"...just so happened that Jeff Beck was in one, Peter Green in another. Who knew then that they'd eventually be rock legends? :shrug:

bjk3047

08-06-2002, 05:54 PM

I added two pieces of Savoy Brown for Bob Brunning:
http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

Earlier, John posted this:
Group: Jeremy Spencer & The Children
Time line: 1972?
Members: JS (gtr/keyboards/voc), Michael (gtr/har/voc), Phil Ham (gtr/flute/sitar), Moriah (voc/tamb), Boaz (bass/voc/recorder), Ginnethon (drums)

I found this on The Penguin:
In 1975 Jeremy Spencer returned to London and formed a group called Albatross with other Children Of God members.
Same group?

And just checking, did Peter Green support his post-FM albums with tours? I just had my reservations with a guy like him ;)
Oh and by the way, I took Steve Thoma off the Time lineup, after further consideration, he doesn't count. I was just thinking in terms of replacing Christine, but still, not enough.
-Brian

chiliD

08-06-2002, 06:05 PM

In 1975 Jeremy Spencer returned to London and formed a group called Albatross with other Children Of God members

What turned out to be the "Jeremy Spencer Band"...which released the album "Flee".

Pete Green toured Europe with Kolors & Katmandu. (refer to Jet Celmins' bio of Peter)

wetcamelfood

08-07-2002, 07:43 AM

I don't mean to confuse things but as I notcied at the tree site that you had Chicken Shack listed as the one lineup the whole time from 65-69, as I say, it's fine with me if it's kept this way (and it might have to be as there are no dates on the attached info and it was the Bidwell lineup that cut all of the early Shack recordings anyways) but I just though I'd pass along the info so it can be hashed around. The attached snippet is from the UK "40 Blue fungers..." Chicken Shack CD...

...it seems there were two drummers previous to Bidwell in Chicken Shack. I do have one picture each from the Morley & Sykes lineups but no dates (or "date useful" captions) on either of them. So, like with what you had rightly decided about Steve Thoma etc. you may choose to leave these two guys off too but at least the option is there for you. I'll keep digging for more specific dates on them but I don't know if I'll be able to find anything on them or not.

Also, I wasn't sure if "Savoy Brown 1" should be "Sep-Oct" and 2 should be Oct-Dec as Brunning left FM to go to SB and as it looks now the dates overlap (as it is, this wasn't the first lineup of SB but it was the first for FM involvement and of course they will be coming back later for Dave Walker). I know we don't have documentation of an actual FM leaving date for him yet but until we do I didn't know if we should assume that he was with FM for Aug and then Mcvie came to FM in Sep? Whatever is cool with me though. I hope this is of some help and doesn't make things worse! :)

John

bjk3047

08-07-2002, 09:48 AM

Right, that doesn't make sense as I look at it. I read in a SB bio that Brunning left in August and went on that. Although, I doesn't quite make sense, as the Windsor festival was in August. Soo, I changed SB's dates to Sep-Nov and Nov-Dec.
So we have established that the two Jeremy Spencer references are separare entities? Figuring out that is the only thing keeping me from moving on to post-FM Kirwan.
Two holes I have that maybe someone could help with:

The Seven Souls 1964-1969
Bob Welch guit/voc
Henry Thomson bass
?????????? I'm stuck past that

Peter Green 1985
Peter Green guit
Vincent Crane ?
Jeff Wittaker drums
Ray Dorset ?

-Brian

greatdarkwing

08-07-2002, 12:17 PM

I need to comment that you guys are doing a FABULOUS job with this.....It is so cool that Ledgies can band together and do such a great job. Keep it up!:D :)

Thanks!:wavey:

~Alex

wetcamelfood

08-07-2002, 03:17 PM

Thanks Alex! We really hope we get this thing right!

Now Brian, I'm stuck on the Seven Souls too. I found this part of an answer from Bob Welch at the Bob Welch Penguin Q & A:

The Seven Souls were actually part of a large group of players in LA, that were all in different bands, but sort of trying to do the same thing. There was the 'Souls, there were the guys, Bobby Watson and Tony Maiden, who later, with Chaka Kahn, turned into "Rufus",.

...so I don't know if this means that Watson & Maiden were there (and if they were, what instruments they played). Bob did say at another point in the Q & A that "Bobby Hunt" was "an old buddy of (his) from The Seven Souls". I noticed that a Robert Hunt played keyboards in Welch's next band Head West so I would assume this is one in the same person as well. Past that, I'm stuck. I've got The Seven Souls singles (except one) I know of that exist but there's nothing on them that suggests any further data on their personnel. I'll keep digging though. Oh, I forgot, a 7S tune, "I'm no stranger" was written by Welch and an "H. Moore" (and it's B-side "I still love you" was written by this "H. Moore" too) once again, I would assume that this is Henry Moore, the drummer in Head West but no way to tell (if that's of any help but it probably makes it more confusing!) :)

Yeah, I agree, I would guess that Jeremy's bands were "seperate entitties" as you had guessed but I really can't say for sure as I had passed on all I had on that stuff earlier. Hopefully someone else can pass anything further they may have on this topic on here. :)

Now, it sounds like this "Peter Green 1985" deal you have listed is Katmandu and I must admit, I had forgotten all about them when I had listed his post FM stuff so here's what the album's got listed:

PG (voc/gtr/harmonica), Vincent Crane (keyboards), Jeff Whittaker (percussion/voc), Ray Dorset (voc/gtr/harmonica), Greg Terry-Short (drums), Len Surtees (bass).

....Sue Marshall & Terri Crazel are also listed as backing vocalists but I'll assume they're not part of the "band" and they list some other facts like how Peter plays drums on one soing (!) but I'll leave that out of his "core" instrument duties! It says that the recording for the album took place from Dec '83 to Feb '84. I'll see if I can find out if they played any gigs but I don't know if I'll find anything. If I do, I'll post it here. Hope this helps.

John

chiliD

08-07-2002, 04:18 PM

Just because they're on my mind...take these with a grain of salt; just kind of "stream of consciousness"-ly posting here.

Chicken Shack (post-Christine):
Stan Webb-guitar, vocals
Dave Bidwell-drums
Andy Sylvester-bass
Paul Raymond replaced Christine on keyboards.

Take this incarnation of CS, subtract Stan Webb, add Kim Simmonds & Dave Walker, you have the "Street Corner Talking"/"Lion's Share" incarnation of Savoy Brown---After this lineup broke up (or was disbanded), Paul Raymond went on to join "U.F.O." (remember "Lights Out In London" and the great "Where's Michael Schenker?" fiasco?)---this incarnation of Savoy Brown as a unit replaced:

Dave Peverett (guitar), Tone Stevens (bass), Roger Earl (drums) who bailed out of Savoy Brown en masse to form Foghat

bjk3047

08-07-2002, 08:10 PM

Thanks Alex! Feel free to join in the fray! :)
For Henry Thomson info, refer here: http://members.cox.net/jjp62/ht.htm
I think if we can muster up one more member of Seven Souls to make 4 total, we can safely have enough to list it and put "several others" i.e. Bo Street Runners. I can't remember if the entries John had for JS were for albums or the live band as we were still working that out at the time. Or are they the same? After JS, if I caught chiliD right, we can hold off on Peter Green as he only toured twice in the 80's and go straight to Kirwan. Hey, this thing's moving along! :D
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-08-2002, 07:02 AM

I think I confused the 7S issue with the Bob Welch quote from the Q & A as now that I re-read it, it doesn't look like Maiden & Watsom were in there. Sorry! :) ...but, as we seem to have Welch, Thomson, Moore, & Hunt, that would be the "mandatory" 4 you spoke of so do you think we could get away with that for now (with the "several others" tag you had mentioned)?

Okie doak, I'm cool with the PG thing. :)

...and yes, the JS stuff I listed was just from the albums, I just hit a brick wall when trying to find out anything on his live stuff from his solo days (with the exception of the India 99 thing as that album IS live so...

Now, Danny, let's see, you've got Boilerhouse so that's his "pre" taken care of (and you've got Tramp of course). Hmm, I'm not sure if he toured with Chris Youlden or not, I'll have to check. However, in regards to his solo stuff I don't think he ever played a "solo" gig live as such due to the fact that the Jo Ann Kelly "Tramp 1974" album notes that the live BBC stuff from that CD was "Danny's last known live performance" etc. so I can list the album personnel from DK's solo outings if you wish but I wasn't sure if you wanted that in this case or not. Let me know.

John

bjk3047

08-08-2002, 01:42 PM

Oh right! Sorry, when you made reference to Herny Moore, I was thinking of Henry Thomson. So yes, we do have 4, and yes, it has been added.

Yeah, same here, JS in India's all I got. Just so I know, do you know when in '99 he started the tour? He finished in March of '00.

We do have to do a little decyphering of the Tramp tree that you posted before though, as some of it refers to studio work. Should I just take it to mean that the second album's support tour was by the second group listed?

I would think if DK's last known performance was in '74 and all 3 of his albums were '75 and on, I think it's safe to leave them off.
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-08-2002, 04:28 PM

Brian,

Regarding JS it says this in the CD notes for "India live '99":

"Jeremy Spencer's recent tour in India, in January 1998 was done on behalf of the National Association for the Blind in India. (etc.)"

...so, I don't know if they are saying that it STARTED in Jan '98 or if the ENTIRE India TOUR was in the whole month of 1/98. I'm assuming it was in that month that this CD was recorded as it does state that it is a CD for the NAB of India. Hmm, I guess we should just assume it started then and ended when you noted but I'll go with whatever you guys think. :)

Now Tramp, well because they were this "side" band and Brunning had no idea what was going on with the Mac at the time and knowing what he/we know now it was very good of Fleetwood/Kirwan to have taken part etc. etc. etc. and I understand that it has been insinuated that it was felt a relief to get the BBC session over with without too much trouble (Danny's "condition" etc.) so, with that (apparently) being the case, I don't think Tramp ever did any other live gigs/tours (that I know of or have read of/can find) so I guess the BBC tracks on the "Tramp 1974" CD would in effect be their only "live line up" (unless anyone else out there has any corrections to this) :) so just to clarify, the lineup for those live BBC tracks on "Tramp 1974" is: (Jo Ann) Kelly, Hall, Brunning, Kirwan, Brooks, Hartley.

Oh, and leaving off the DK solo stuff is fine with me. You're right Brian, this sure IS moving along! :)

John

chiliD

08-08-2002, 04:35 PM

BUT...there are so many ironic things about the crew that played on Danny's solo stuff, you SHOULD include them.

A quick few examples:

Andy Sylvester, the Chicken Shack/Savoy Brown bass player, was the bass player on the Second Chapter album

Paul Raymond- Chicken Shack/Savoy Brown/UFO keyboardist played on Second Chapter.

Geoff Britton-drummer on the Second Chapter album did a stint in Paul McCartney's Wings (between Denny Seiwell and Joe English) and played on most of the "Venus & Mars" album; and for a time was a member of Manfred Mann's Earth Band (he replaced Chris Slade)

Bob Weston, Danny's "replacement" in FMac played on his "Hello There Big Boy" album.

Kirby & Steve Cook (guitarist & bass player respectively) who played on both the "Midnight In San Juan" & "Hello There Big Boy" albums were members of "Stretch" (aka "the phony Fleetwood Mac" in 1973) whose membership ALSO included at one point Nigel Watson, co-founder of the Splinter Group.

I think Danny's solo career is worth delving into.

wetcamelfood

08-09-2002, 01:28 PM

Oh yeah, geez, all these connections, I knew about Britton being in MMEB of course but didn't know about him being in Wings. I guess it's especially ironic he was in Wings around the VAM period as it was on "Listen to what the man said" (from "Venus and Mars") that Dave Mason played on! :) Well as I say, either way is fine with me Brian.

John

Cristian

08-09-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Oh yeah, geez, all these connections, I knew about Britton being in MMEB of course but didn't know about him being in Wings. I guess it's especially ironic he was in Wings around the VAM period as it was on "Listen to what the man said" (from "Venus and Mars") that Dave Mason played on! :)John He is credited with drums on "Junior's Farm" and "Sally G", from the 1974 single; "Love In Song", "Letting Go", "Medicine Jar" and "Listen To What The Man Said", from Venus And Mars. :nod:

Song of the moment - Nigths In Estoril

bjk3047

08-09-2002, 08:42 PM

I think I'm gonna stick with strictly bands that have a past or present member of Fleetwood Mac in it. Otherwise, there's no common theme. Yes, it is really quite interesting, but sadly, it doesn't quite fit in here.
Alright, next up isssss...(drum roll? :rolleyes: ) DAVE WALKER!
What do we have for him pre and post? Savoy Brown is in already for pre, but its there any pre that?

Rollin rollin rollin, keep that Mac tree rollin'

-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-10-2002, 09:18 AM

Okies, here's what I've got on Dave Walker (pre FM)

Band: The Redcaps
Time line: 1963-1964
Lineup: DW (voc), Mick Blythe (gtr), Mike (could be "Mick") Walter (bass), Alan Morley (drums), Max Broadhurst (?)

Band: Beckett
Time line: 1965-12/69?
Lineup: DW (voc), Pete Oliver (?), Don Mcginty (?), Colin Timmins (?)

Band: Idle Race
Time line: 1/70-1/71
Lineup: DW (voc), Mike Hopkins (gtr), Dave Pritchard (gtr), Roger Spencer (drums), Greg Masters (bass)

Band: Savoy Brown
Time line: 2/71-6/72
Lineup: DW (voc), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Andy Silvester (bass), Dave Bidwell (drums)

Band: Savoy Brown
Time line : 6/72-9/72
Lineup: DW (voc), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Dave Bidwell (drums), Andy Pyle (bass)

...then joined FM.

For DW post FM, I've got:

Band: Hungry Fighter (I don't know how I could've forgotten this one for Danny!)
Time line: 1974 (one gig)
Lineup: DW (voc), DK (gtr), Andy Silvester (bass), Dave Bidwell (drums)

Band: Raven
Time line: 1975-5/76
Lineup: DW (voc), John Cipollina (gtr), Nicky Hopkins (keyboards), Hutch Hutchinson (bass), Skip Olsen (bass), Greg Douglass (gtr), Andy Kirby (drums), David Weber (drums), Jim Mcpherson (?)

Band: Mistress
Time line: 6/76-10/77?
Lineup: DW (voc), Charlie Williams (voc), Kenny Hopkins (gtr), Danny Chauncey (gtr), David Warner Brown (bass), Chris Paulsen (drums)

Band: Black Sabbath
Time line: 11/77-1/78
Lineup: DW (voc), Tony Iommi (gtr), Terry "Geezer" Butler (bass), Bill Ward (drums)

(inactive in music biz from after this until...)

Band: Savoy Brown
Time line: 1987-1989
Lineup: DW (voc), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Jim Dagnesi (bass), Al Macomber (drums)

Band: Savoy Brown
Time line: 1990-9/91
Lineup: DW (voc), Kim Simmonds (gtr), Lou Kaplan (bass), Pete Mendillo (drums), Rick Jewett (keyboards)

DW left the music biz again until the Donovan's Brain stuff. Now, although Dave Walker took a big part in recordings for Donovan's Brain from (roughly May) 1999 until the end of 2000, it's debatable as to whether he was actually a "member" of the band or not as they were/are a sort of "Zoo" type outfit. You can check to see what you think at www.donovans-brain.com (for the most DW relevant info, go to "discography", then "Tiny crustacean light show" but he is pictured/talked about much throughout the site).

I know that there are some family trees floating around of Raven and Mistress but I can't seem to find my copies anywhere so I've only been able to supply what I could above but hopefully some one else out there can clean that up a little bit if they come across those somewhere (as I was just able to list who was "ever" in those bands hence the two drummers, bass players, etc.) but Ron Sanchez of Donovan's Brain may be able to help you out a lot over at the DB site with more info on that as he knows Dave well as he met Dave back in DW's San Francisco days (Mistress & Raven).

Sorry I don't have more info on Beckett but I didn't even know they existed until DW discussed them on his Penguin Q & A here but what I listed is all I could find about them in the Q & A.

Also, in case it was confusing before, I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't suggesting that we include Wings in the tree or anything, I was simply commenting on how ironic it was with those other non tree connections. Anyways, I can see what ChiliD means about how we may want to consider including Danny's solo "lineups" though and either way is fine with me if we include/don't include DK's solo "bands". OK? So, I hope some of this helps. :)

John

wetcamelfood

08-10-2002, 09:25 AM

I came across the attached family tree for Idle Race but I think the 2/72 date is wrong as this was when Savoy Brown's SECOND album with DW was out ("Hellbound train"). The first, "Street corner talking", was out in 1971 and a Savoy Brown US tour (headlining over Rod Stewart!) took place with DW in what has been referred to as "early '71" (therefore, this 2/72 date overlaps). I just thought I'd warn you about this in case you came across it yourself. I know Mr. Frame is the king of the jungle in this area but I think he goofed here.

John

chiliD

08-12-2002, 05:18 PM

By the looks of that "limb", it appears that we have a pretty good trivia question...

Who took Jeff Lynne's place in Idle Race when he left to co-found E.L.O.???

Dave Walker

DAMN! I love trivia!

bjk3047

08-13-2002, 12:15 AM

Sorry I finally got around to digesting all the DW info. It all looks good to me, except for Beckett. Since that's the only mention of it and I can't find squat on any of those guys, we may have to bag it. And for the Redcaps...I found two slightly conflicting websites: http://members.aol.com/djguvnor/Redcaps.html
http://members.rogers.com/woodhouse1713/redcaps.htm
And from the looks of your info, these are the two you found. I'm inclined to say that it would be Mick Walker, as Dave Walker was misspelled twice on the aol page and was identical to Mick. But as for Max...lol ummm....ideas?
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-13-2002, 05:33 AM

I'm happy to go with "Mick Walker". You're right, I found the brumbeat site (the second one) but I didn't find the first one. As they mistakenly list DW as "Dave Walter" on this site AND they also list this Max guy as well, I'm inclined to say that I think they got their info from www.allmusic.com as that was where I found the original personnel listing (with Max) before finding the brumbeat site and I've found many errors at Allmusic in the past so the brumbeat site is probably right about this so since we have the "mandatory four" for tree purposes, we could leave him out if necessary but I'll go with whatever. :)

Oh, speaking of that brumbeat site. I found this listed there for Christine under the Chicken Shack page:

Christine Perfect (born July 12, 1943) was from Bearwood, Birmingham and coming from a musical family, she learned to play piano at an early age and was also a talented singer. She later attended Moseley College of Art where she played in a group called The Bobcats which later became The Rockin' Berries.

...you will see that there is a page on this site for this "Rockin' Berries" group but I can't say I've ever seen or heard of any other listing that says Christine was in this group so perhaps this site is NOT as accurate as I thought it was with the Redcaps? Just a thought.

John

bjk3047

08-16-2002, 09:34 PM

Sorry for the delay, I made the additions twice (PhotoDeluxe pooped out on me before I could save the first time). After some further pondering, I decided on 'Mick Walter'. Makes more sense to me... So yeah, here are the additions, please do make necessary corrections:
http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

We're in a bit of a predicament in terms of Hungry Fighter, DK and DW are on separate sides of the tree...any suggestions?
We're up to 40 entries for the tree! Yay.
It looks as if I've adapted a method of putting all the pre-Mac stuff for the members first and leaving post stuff 'til afterwards. Just kinda what I've been doing I guess. So anyway...

BOB WESTON! Whatcha know about the guy? Might as well list pre- and post- so it's here and we can go back to it. Sounds good? Cool.
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-17-2002, 04:35 PM

Yeah, Mick Walter sounds more likely to me as well. I'm cool with that if everyone else is. :)

Hmm, Hungry Fighter, yeah I see what you mean. Since you've got the DW pre stuff coming in on the left and then he hooks on from the left wing to FM and Danny "dangles" from the right after he leaves FM 6, maybe you could have HF be straight down on the right from when/where Danny ends off from FM but have it be quite a long line down so that by when FM 7 is over and DW "leaves" FM, you could then have DW's line go off to the right from his FM listing to join on to HF where DK joins on to HF from what would be the "above" position. I must admit, I can't see below FM 6 so there's probably something blocking it that I can't see and would stop you from doing this and the above explanatioin probably made no sense! Just an idea though. The members don't have to stay on the same side of the tree for their whole career (though it probably is preferrable) as long as you can follow the link lines to see where they go in their career(s) you know what I mean? Besides, it looks like DW has more post stuff than DK anyways. Well, I hope that helps anyways. I'll keep thinking. :)

OK, Weston, here we go (I agree that it's probably best just to list pre AND post here so it will be here to refer to) so here's what I've got though it won't flow so easily (and dates will be pretty vague to say the least unfortunately):

BOB WESTON PRE FM

Group: The Kinetic
Time line: 1967?
Members: Weston (gtr), Andy Mowbray (voc), Geoffrey Capper (bass), John Christopher Sze (drums), Michael Humby (keyboards)

(in 1968, it's been reported over the years that Weston was involved with the band Black Cat Bones. However, both vinyl & CD copies of their only album "Barbed wire sandwich" list no mention of Weston anywhere on the credits and Weston himself couldn't remember when asked in his Penguin Q & A in what capacity he was "involved" with this band. I can list for you who WAS listed on the album if you want, let me know)

Group: Ashkan
Time Line: 1969(-1970?)
Members: Weston (gtr), Steve Bailey (voc), Ron Bending (bass), Terry Sims (drums)

(in 1971, it has been reported that Weston played on Graham Bond's "Bond in America" album. Though it seems to be after Bond's "Graham Bond Organization" days, he has always appeared to exist (much like John Mayall) as a "band" type unit even though the band "title" ("Organization, "Bluesbreakers" etc.) had apparently been dropped. The copy of the "Bond in America" album I have has no musicians listed on the album. Therefore, I can't confirm one way or the other who was in that "band" at that time so I'm not sure what you'd want to do (if anything) about this, let me know again)

Group: Ashman Reynolds
Time line: 1/72?-6/72
Members: Weston (gtr), Aliki Ashman (voc), Harry Reynolds (bass/voc), Micky Keen (gtr), Rod Edwards (keyboards), Keith Boyce (drums), Tony Clarke (percussion)

(further notes on AR, when asked about his work with AR in his Penguin Q & A, Weston seemed adamant that he was only a "side" musician and not "in the band". However, if you look at the album cover of "Stop off" in the Penguin discography, you'll clearly see him pictured there with Ashman, Reynolds (and who I would assume is Micky Keen as he is the fourth listed musician on the album credits). I know that they played live on British TV on "The Old Grey Whistle Test" on June 6, 1972 (though I have yet to find a copy of this show on videotape (and likely never will unfortunately!) and it's doubtful that they were able to play the material from the "Stop off" album on this show or subsequent tours without any rhythm backing. So, I listed the next three musicians on the record as I would have to presume that they would have been on "tour" with AR at the time as well. I can only guess that this project started at the beginning of '72 and played no later than 6/72 together due to the OGWT show date and the fact that as we now know Weston had toured with (Long) John Baldry before he joined FM)

Group: ((Long) John Baldry band)
Time Line: 7/72-8/72
Members: Weston (gtr), (Long) John Baldry (voc), James Litherland (gtr), Ian Armit (keyboards), Bill Smith (bass), John Dentith (drums), Liza Strike (backing voc), Doris Troy (backing voc)

(once again, I had to do a little assuming here with Baldry's band. The (Long) John Baldry album "Everything stops for tea" has 2 songs on which Weston plays, both are on the side of the album produced by Rod Stewart (the other side was produced by Elton John) therefore there were not many common factors. I know that Weston had replaced guitarist Sam Mitchell who is listed as playing on a few of the Stewart produced tracks so I figured that the line up that was on the Weston tunes must have been the lineup on this tour as it stood to reason that the Weston tracks must have been the last few recorded tunes for the album so I listed the common denominators that played on both songs and listed those "most likely to have been on the tour" above accordingly. I am guessing on the Baldry dates again due to his joining FM in 9/72 and having to have to assume that he ended his time with Ashman Reynols no later (and/or earlier) than 6/72 in order to have played with Baldry long enough for it to have been considered "important" enough for that to have been documented previously in Weston bios we have read/seen.)

...then joined FM

BOB WESTON POST FM

after FM, he went on to...

Group: (Dana Gillespie band)
Time Line: 11/73?-12/74?
Members: Weston (gtr), Dana Gillespie (voc), John Porter (gtr), Simon Phillips (drums), Dave Skinner (keyboards), Mel Collins (sax), Henry Lowther (horns), Robin Sylvester (bass)

(again, I have to guess that this is where he went after his "exit" from FM at the end of 10/73, hence the dates though the "Ain't gonna play no second fiddle" album was recorded from 6/74-7/74 at least if you prefer to just use those dates but by all accounts he did tour with Gillespie for this album. All DG personnel listed above were in the touring band except I was not sure who was playing bass so I had to guess it was Sylvester due to the fact that he had played bass on all 7 of the songs Weston played on from the AGPNSF album of the 10 songs from the record. There is a FM common link here as Sylvester was to later be in one of Bob Welch's solo bands but anyways, one Macster at a time! :) )

Group: Howard Werth & The Moonbeams
Time Line: 1/75?-6/75
Members: Weston (gtr), Howard Werth (voc/gtr), Mike Moran (keyboards), Freddy Gandy (bass), Roger Pope (drums)

(I have to guess that this outfit started at the beginning of '75 and stopped in 6/75 due to the album's 1975 release date listed on the copy I have as well as Pete Frame documentation I have here of Weston joining Marriott in 7/75 below...)

Group: Steve Marriott's All Stars
Time Line: 7/75-8/75
Members: Weston (gtr), Steve Marriott (gtr/voc), Ian Wallace (drums), Micky Finn (gtr), Nick South (bass)

Group: Steve Marriott's All Stars
Time Line: 9/75-12/75
Weston (gtr), Steve Marriott (gtr/voc), Ian Wallace (drums), Micky Finn (gtr), Greg Ridley (bass)

Weston left the All Stars in 12/75 and he stated in his Q & A that he had toured heavily around this time with Murray Head. He played on every song from Head's 1975 "Say it ain't so" album and all but two of the songs from Head's 1979 album "Between us". However, as "Say it ain't so" was presumably recorded and released in 1975, "time line"-ing this with the Marriott stuff would be tricky if you/we are to conclude that he was in Head's band and that it should be documented. Think it over.

Also, as far as I know, I don't think Weston ever "toured" for a solo release (though I think he mentioned something in his Q & A about promoting one of his first two solo albums on French TV right after/before doing the "Bob Welch & Friends live at the Roxy" deal, I don't think he said who was playing with him on that French TV show whatever it was, if he even played anything at all on it which he may not have anyways). If this is the case, I don't know if you want to list the personnel from his solo albums or not. I only have "There's a heaven", I haven't been able to find copies of "Night light" & "Studio picks" yet (most unfortunately!) so someone else would have to help out with personnel listings on those two albums but I can provide the personnel listings for the two Head albums and Weston's solo "There's a heaven" album if you need them. Let me know and I hope some of this is of some help. Looks GREAT to me so far, I didn't see any errors but I'll give it a once over again. :)

John

Vianna

08-17-2002, 05:23 PM

This is fabulous, guys-you need to put all this in an ebook and charge to download it=:-) I'm trying to read it and keep it all straight...

I have a question: Wasn't Peter Green hospitalized at one point after he took that bad acid? When was that? or am I just dreaming this up?

Also who was in the band when they made the boxed set The Chain? Like who's singing in Heart of Stone?

wetcamelfood

08-18-2002, 10:06 AM

Brian is doing the hard part really! :)

Yeah, we couldn't really figure out who was in FM during that strange early 90's Chain box time either so we just kinda left that alone. Even though we know it's not really correct, it's as correct as we can get it. Same could be said for many of the "obscure" bands listed throughout the tree.

Now, good question (as well) on Peter Green, maybe someone else will know off hand here, I'm gonna check through the PG bio book again later to see for sure and please chime in here someone if I'm wrong on this (which I probably am!) but I don't think PG was hospitalized after the bad acid thing, he was hospitalized after the "shotgun incident" in late '76 as I think it was January 23, 1977 that he was admitted to a mental hopspital (which of course can't (directly) be related to the acid thing as that was in 1970) though this may not have been the time period you had been referring to. If it is, I hope this was of some help. :)

John

wetcamelfood

08-18-2002, 04:35 PM

Brian,

Not to jump ahead to Bob Welch but I noticed on the site that you have Welch going straight from the Seven Souls to FM but he was in Head West during 1970 and then went to FM from there (though I think they did break up before he had joined FM but I don't have any specific dates, I guess you could just have it be from 1/70-3/71 or something, whatever you think). They were a trio and they consisted of Welch, Moore & Hunt (see the Seven Souls on the tree already for the instruments etc.). Since you like to have the "minimum four", is this going to be a problem? (I hope not as thinking ahead to Welch's post FM stuff, there's Bob's trio Paris as well etc.)

Sorry to jump ahead like that but I thought you might want to squeeze HW in there now somewhere (though I realize it looks a little tight for space as it is) before too much more growth on the tree, trying to keep on top of any errors etc. like you were saying. Anyways, hope that helps.

John

bjk3047

08-19-2002, 10:04 PM

Well I'm going to have to do my homework to see if I can add to any of the Weston stuff (although I must hand it to you, John, incredible digging, the best I could ever manage to do with the great work you've done is possibly refine :) ). Really, I'd say "the hard part" is getting a bit easier as I get into the flow of adding bands to the tree. I can't believe my task would be any harder than putting together all the lineups as you've done so well.:nod:
And also, many thanks to Johnny Stew for supplying the initial tree, and for Les and chiliD for joining in on the help, I already have your names ready to go on the final tree when it's done (Lord granting that we finish it lol). I figure I can make a giant title for it: THE COMPLEAT FLEETWOOD MAC TREE :D
About the minimum four, I just meant if it was a good size group, it would be nice to have at least four. But if we have complete info on a trio (such as Head West), and we know that it *was* a trio, it's all set to add. I did the same with DK's Boilerhouse. It'll take a little work to fit Head West in there with the all the Walker additions, but DEFINATELY better now than later with more additions to move. Thanks for pointing that out.
Oh and finally, Vianna: I'm relatively sure that Heart Of Stone was done by Billy, Christine, John, and Mick. That's who appears on the Love Shines video from the same album, so I'd think it would translate to HOS.

wetcamelfood

08-20-2002, 05:32 AM

Thanks for the compliments Brian, I hope your Weston investigations don't cause too many headaches! All with the trios etc. sounds good to me, this is going to be so cool! :)

I'd like to thank Johnny Stew and ChiliD for their great help too, thanks guys! :) We still do have some work ahead of us though so hopefully there won't be too many headaches upcoming for ALL of us! :)

Yeah, I figured that Billy, Christine, John & Mick were on LS, HOS etc. but, although certainly possible, it just seems unlikely that it would be Billy doing the lead guitar work on those songs so THAT is really the main stumbling block on that area for me personally but oh well, hopefully we'll find out for sure someday about that time. :)

John

bjk3047

08-21-2002, 01:37 PM

Well I came up empty handed except for this from Dana Gillespie's website:
Her second RCA LP "Ain't Gonna Play No Second Fiddle" was just beginning to take off when her management company decided she should move to the USA, where she played and toured extensively for two years.
That probably only makes things more difficult date-wise :rolleyes:. Greeeat.
But someone else is going to have to pipe-up on Graham Bond and/or Black Cat Bones, because I've got nothing. As for lineups that only have a year (ex. 1969) what should I do? It'll look a little silly with just one line on the date spot...
-Brian
P.S. I didn't feel like adding an entire post after Johnny's right below this one - DUH ME! Thanks Johnny, got too wrapped up in guitars to completely forget that! Not to mention Paper Doll from the same album. Hmm.. why wasn't Stevie on the vid for Love Shines?

Johnny Stew

08-21-2002, 02:49 PM

One quick comment.... I'm not sure about Lindsey or Rick's involvement, but Stevie's vocals are definitely apparent on "Heart Of Stone."

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

08-21-2002, 03:18 PM

Hmm, good questions, I guess I'd be inclined to leave out Black Cat Bones & Graham Bond (unless anyone else who has further info on these guys speaks up...now!) as it seems less likely to me that Weston had much (if any) involvement with either of these bands, at least the others around that time frame are more "documented" BUT in contrast we seem to have TOO much documentation for the Gillespie thing. Geez, I had never heard of that "two year" quote before. Well, if I was deciding, I guess I'd just assume that Weston must have left the band before the US tour (whenever that might have been, since a leaving date has to be on it, I would say 12/74) because he was definately in Howard Werth & The Moonbeams (not to mention this "heavy involvement" in the Murray Head band) in '75 as well as the Marriott All Stars deal but I'll go with whatever the majority says. :)

John

chiliD

08-22-2002, 12:21 PM

why wasn't Stevie on the vid for Love Shines?

She wasn't in the band at the time.:nod:

bjk3047

08-22-2002, 10:59 PM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Oh lord here we go again...lol
Did you and tommer get together and decide to push this? How can you contribute a song AND sing backup on another song for the album and not be part of the band? How does that work? She was NOT "being courteous" or any crap like that, she was actively taking part in band recordings.
-Brian

fleetfootmike

08-23-2002, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Hmm, good questions, I guess I'd be inclined to leave out Black Cat Bones & Graham Bond (unless anyone else who has further info on these guys speaks up...now!)

For what it's worth, our bassist in Fleetfoot Mike used to hang out with Black Cat Bones, and was taught to play by Stu Brooks, their bass player and his friend. I had a chat with him about this last night, and he doesn't remember Bob Weston being involved: but, as he said 'I remember jamming and chatting in his front room a lot, with an awful lot of people with Les Pauls...'

Mal (our bassist) is trying to track Stu down (he went on to play in Leafhound and The Pretty Things, among others and was last seen playing with Greg Leon (ex-Quiet Riot) in Wishing Well): if he succeeds I'll get him to ask.

fleetfootmike

08-23-2002, 10:22 AM

IIRC Pete Frame uses a dotted rather than solid line to link live 'support' musicians (as per Chris's replacement for Time shows).

bjk3047

08-23-2002, 10:54 PM

Re: Time shows -
I was under the impression that the sole dotted line used on the chart (Peter Green) was used to indicate that he was there but only due to a technicality. Not really support... As to Time though, if you're looking at the version in which I had added Steve Thoma, I eventually took him out - all the others in the lineup are lead members.
Re: Bob Weston -
So you'd say he was just more of an associate than a member of BCB? Would make sense from the shady references...
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-24-2002, 07:34 AM

Yeah, unless fleetfootmike can get some good info from Stu, I guess we should just leave Weston out of BCB for now. Any other thoughts on this anyone?

John

bjk3047

09-02-2002, 11:32 PM

Phew! Sorry for the long delay, but pre-FM Weston seemed to take forever! Take a look at the site, additions, corrections, what have you: http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

Can you believe it, (I thought we'd never get so far lol) WE'RE UP TO BUCKINGHAM AND NICKS!!! Bout frickin' time too, this thread was overstaying it's welcome on the *Rumours* board ;) So is there anything pre-FM other than Fritz and BN?
-Brian

Johnny Stew

09-03-2002, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by bjk3047
How can you contribute a song AND sing backup on another song for the album and not be part of the band? How does that work? She was NOT "being courteous" or any crap like that, she was actively taking part in band recordings.

Actually... despite the fact that Stevie didn't "officially" quit the band until directly after the Clinton Inaugural gala, she had pretty much said she'd never work with them again in 1991, unless Mick found a way of making amends for not letting her use "Silver Springs" on 'Timespace.'
So, all concerned seemed to consider her appearance on '25 Years - The Chain' to be a gesture of good-will, rather than part of the duties of an active band-member.

The same can be said of Rick Vito, who had also quit the band in 1991, but appeared alongside Mick, John, Christine & Billy, at the Super Bowl pre-game show, in 1993.

(By the way, Brian, the tree looks fantastic!!!)

Johnny Stew

Johnny Stew

09-03-2002, 01:53 AM

By the way, Brian, if no one else wants to do it, I'd be more than happy to submit a listing of every member of each of Stevie's solo touring bands.

I don't have much info on her band members' other projects though.

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

09-03-2002, 05:38 AM

Johnny Stew - That would be a great big help to me if you could post the Stevie band stuff here as I'm still investigating Bob Welch's post Mac solo bands as I've run in to some problems deciding "who was in it when" etc. so it might help speed things up if you could do that while I look in to these other things OK? Thanks so much Johnny! Any help by ANYONE on this would be greatly appreciated (well, I think so anyways and I'm sure Brian would agree too). :)

Brian - Wow, this tree looks FANTASTIC! :) Only correction I could find was that the lead singer of Ashman Reynolds, her name is "Aliki" (I may have read it wrong and I do apologize if I did but it looks to me like you have "Alik" in there). I hope you can squeeze Head West in for Welch too (after 7S & before FM) as I say but I see how difficult things are getting for some of these things (like Hungry Figher etc.). Well, I'll keep thinking too and we'll figure out something in the end on those kinds of things I'm sure (but I know you say it's easier for you if we try and fix them now rather than later).

Anyways, the only other "pre BN FM stuff" that I can think of is the POST FM Welch unless you mean like before as wanting all of the 60's stuff on there first and working up to present day (hence why you've been putting the "pre" stuff for these guys but not the "post" stuff yet). There's the pre FM Dave Mason stuff (Traffic, Jaguars, Hellions, etc.) but I wasn't sure if that's what you meant. Oops, I just noticed that you were referring to pre FM stuff for LB & SN, sorry about that! I suppose with stuff like Billy being in Brenda Lee's band in the 60's, beyond that I don't have any other info on stuff like that anyways! I wouldn't know what to make of his "touring" bands (if any existed) in the 70's ("Jawbone", etc.). Well, I'll probably need to try and get some help on DM's solo bands from somewhere anyways so let me know what you think.

John

bjk3047

09-03-2002, 02:53 PM

John: AHH! I completely forgot about Head West! It was a bit of a puzzle, but it fit in without too much movement. Check it out: http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html
I guess it was just a bad screen capture, Aliki is indeed Aliki. Not to worry though, the actual tree is 46 x 70 INCHES! Not far off a real tree lol.
I really meant pre-FM stuff for LB and SN themselves. We'll get to Billy and Dave in due course.

Brian: Stevie tour lineups would be MUCH obliged! I don't know what kind of band she packed on off hand, but if indeed she had like 12 people, the principal 5-6 should do it. I wouldn't need the tour members' bands though, that would be one step too removed from the tree. And heck, I wouldn't mind getting LB OOTC up there too if you knew the lineup. That could be interesting, what with the guitar army lol
-Brian

wetcamelfood

09-03-2002, 03:14 PM

Hey Brian, the Head West entry looks great! :) The only "correction" I noticed was that I guess it should say Jan "1970" for the start date (and not '71) as they did have their one and only album in 1970. I know those won't be the absolute correct dates but it would make it as correct as we can get it anyways under the circumstances.

I'll leave SN & LB up to Johnny Stew if he's game. :)

OK, I'll wait for the green light on Dave M & Billy etc. :)

Should I go ahead and post (what I can) on "post FM Bob Welch" (so it will be here for when you do get to that like we were saying before) though?

John

bjk3047

09-03-2002, 09:11 PM

Head West correction made, go ahead and list the Welch stuff at your leisure, it'd be good to get it down. When the SN and LB stuff is up, you have the green light for Billy, Rick, Dave, and Bekka.
-Brian

Johnny Stew

09-04-2002, 01:14 AM

The White Winged Dove Tour, Nov. 28th, 1981 - Dec. 13th, 1981

Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Bob Glaub ~ bass
Roy Bittan ~ piano
Benmont Tench ~ keyboards & synthesizer
Russ Kunkel ~ drums
Bobbye Hall ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Wild Heart Tour, June 21st, 1983 - Nov. 24th, 1983

Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Wizard ~ bass
Roy Bittan ~ piano
Benmont Tench ~ keyboards & synthesizer
Liberty DeVito ~ drums
Bobbye Hall ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rock A Little Tour, April 11th, 1986 - October 6th, 1986

Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Jennifer Condos ~ bass
Jai Winding ~ keyboards
Robert Martin ~ keyboards & horns
Rick Marotta ~ drums
Bobbye Hall ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals
Elisecia Wright ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Other Side Of The Mirror Tour, Aug. 16th, 1989 - Nov. 27th, 1989

Carlos Rios ~ guitar
Don Boyette ~ bass
Christopher Cameron ~ keyboards
Robert Martin ~ keyboards & horns
Russ Kunkel ~ drums
Peter Michael ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry-Nicks ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Whole Lotta Trouble Tour, July 9th, 1991 - Aug. 18th, 1991

Les Dudek ~ lead guitar
Michael Lennon ~ rhythm guitar
Mark Andes ~ bass
Cat Gray ~ keyboards
Eddie M. ~ keyboards & horns
Scott Crago ~ drums
Peter Michael ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lynn Mabry ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Street Angel Tour, July 22nd, 1994 - Sept. 18th, 1994

Rick Vito ~ lead guitar
Carlos Rios ~ rhythm guitar
Don Boyette ~ bass
Dan Garfield ~ keyboards
Marty Grebb ~ organ & sax
Russ Kunkel ~ drums
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Sara Fleetwood ~ backing vocals
Liza Jane Edwards ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Enchanted Tour, May 27th, 1998 - August 8th, 1998

Frank Simes ~ lead guitar
Carlos Rios ~ rhythm guitar
Don Boyette ~ bass
Kevin Stoller ~ keyboards
Brett Tuggle ~ keyboards
Land Richards ~ drums
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Millennium Concerts, Dec. 28th, 1999 - Jan. 9th, 2000

Frank Simes ~ lead guitar
Carlos Rios ~ rhythm guitar
Don Boyette ~ bass
Kevin Stoller ~ keyboards
Scott Plunkett ~ keyboards
Land Richards ~ drums
Daniel de los Reyes ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trouble In Shangri-La Tour, July 6th, 2001 - Oct. 10th, 2001

Waddy Wachtel ~ lead guitar
Carlos Rios ~ rhythm guitar
Al Ortiz ~ bass
Brett Tuggle ~ keyboards
Scott Plunkett ~ keyboards
Mark Schulman ~ drums
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals
Sheryl Crow ~ guitar/vocals (***occasional appearances)

wetcamelfood

09-04-2002, 09:22 AM

Thanks for that Johnny, that's a BIG help! :) Now we just gotta get LB's OOTC live lineup from somewhere, it figures, I used to have it listed somewhere but can't find it anywhere now. Johnny? Anyone?

In the meantime, here's Bob Welch's "post" FM stuff for reference. Now, I've listed what I could again but had to go by albums in most cases and I've listed questions where appropriate.

Group: Paris
Time line: 1/75-6/76
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Glenn Cornick (bass/keyboards), Thom Mooney (drums)

Group: Paris
Time line: 7/76-12/76
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Glenn Cornick (bass/keyboards), Hunt Sales (drums)

(I just had to guess on the dates as to not leave a "gap" from him leaving FM, I had the "start date" be 1/75 and as the "Big towne 2061" album was released in 8-9/76 (I think) it must have taken them at least a month to record that album (probably longer though) but for now, I just put 6/76 for Paris mark one as ending and 7/76 as Paris mark two as beginning and once again, I couldn't find clear info as to when Paris actually fell apart so I had to "guess" with 12/76 as their "death" unless someone has better info on this (hopefully?!)

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 1/77-12/78
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Todd Sharp (gtr)

Can anyone tell from the "Cal Jam 2" video clip who ELSE was in Bob's band at this time BESIDES TS? Welch has stated in shows like the Roxy one that Alvin Taylor has been with him "since 1976" and although Taylor does play on the FK album, that is obviously not him at Cal Jam 2 so any further additions to this would be great but I can't tell from my copy. Once again, I had to "guess" on these dates. Anyone have any Welch tour dates from this time frame or anything that would give us a better idea on how long this was for?

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 1/79-6/79
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Todd Sharp (gtr), Alvin Taylor (drums), David Adelstein (keyboards), Steve Foreman (percussion)

I had to go by the "Three hearts" credits for this so this can't be right or at least, not complete as the album lists Welch as playing "bass" on the album (in addition to gtr, etc.) and although possible, it's unlikely that he played bass on the tour. Anyone know? Due to this, I "guessed" on the dates as well going by when I understood these albums to be released allowing a short space of time for recording etc.

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 7/79-8/80
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Todd Sharp (gtr), Donny Francisco (drums), David Adelstein (keyboards), Brad Palmer (bass)

(went by "The other one" album credits, "guessed" on dates etc.)

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 9/80-12/80
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Todd Sharp (gtr), Alvin Taylor (drums), David Adelstein (keyboards), Al Bran (bass)

I went by the "Man overboard" album credits for this one. Now, Donny Francisco did backing vocals & harmonies on MO but I would guess that he didn't "tour" for MO becauae of this "minimal" contribution though I could be wrong. Anyone? Also, Welch played bass himself on 3 songs on MO but this Al Bran is listed as playing bass on 4 songs on the album and it doesn't even list who else plays bass on the other songs so this is one of those "common denominator" deals. Anyone have any further/better info on this though? Had to "guess" on dates per usual.

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 1/81-12/82
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Joey Brasler (gtr), Alvin Taylor (drums), David Adelstein (keyboards), Robin Sylvester (bass), Robbie Patton (persussion)

I went by the "Bob Welch & friends live at the Roxy" video & Bob's selftitled 1981 RCA album for this info though I know the dates can't be right as I assume Patton must have done his own tours for DS & OFH. Perhaps he was just counted as one of the 'friends" on this show and not part of the band? I wasn't sure whether he was "in the band" or not since he is listed as being on the RCA album. Anyone know?

Group: (Bob Welch band)
Time line: 1/83-12/83
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Jeff Baxter (gtr), Ed Greene (drums), James Ehinger (keyboards), Nathan East (bass)

Once again, "guessed" on dates, went by what musicians WERE listed on "Eye contact" though it states that Greene, Ehinger & East are only on a few songs as it is. Anyone have better info on this time?

Group: Avenue M
Time line: 1/91-6/91
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Dave Gambrel (gtr), Bob Milan (drums), Fred Robinson (gtr), Glen De Jongh (gtr), Fred Yates (bass)

Group: Avenue M
Time line: 7/91-12/91
Members: Welch (voc/gtr), Dave Gambrel (gtr), Bob Milan (drums), Fred Robinson (gtr), Glen De Jongh (gtr), Kevin Ichrist (bass)

Again, I had to "guess" on the dates, especially where "mark one" was concerned since it was at Welch's Q & A I found out about Yates being replaced in favor of Ichrist etc. Anyone have better info on this?

I must end this with 2 questions:

1. Welch said in his Q & A that a band he played with called Touch included him, Brian Wild on vocals, Dallas Taylor on drums & John Schayer on bass. However, he didn't say when this was. Anyone know?

2. Bob also mentioned in his Q & A when asked as to who else played on "...Looks at bop" that it contained "a cast of thousands due to modern technology etc." I don't even know if there was a tour for that album or not but if so, does anyone know who was on it (etc.)?

I may just have to go by the albums on Mason, Burnette, Vito etc. when that time comes but I'll wait until someone can post the LB OOTC tour details before I go in to all of that.

John

chiliD

09-04-2002, 10:02 AM

The band that recorded "The Other One" is the road band Welch had since "French Kiss".

Lindsey's OotC tour band:
Steve Ross-guitar
Neale Haywood-guitar
Janet Robin-guitar
Lisa Carbe-guitar
Fredrico Pol-bass
Chad Wackerman-"drums"
Michael Tempo-percussion
Dan Garfield-keyboards
there was a second percussionist but I've forgotten his name

wetcamelfood

09-06-2002, 12:40 PM

OK, now that the LB info is there I'll go and add Billy, Rick, Dave M & Bekka (as best I can) here in that order. I'll do them in seperate posts so the stuff should be easier to find for later.

While I think of it though, when doing Johm Mcvie earlier, I forgot about the Bluesbreakers "reunion" tour in (I think it was...) the summer of '82 (for further info, see the "Jammin' with the blues greats" DVD (originally on VHS as "Blues alive")) so I don't know if you want that to be a "sideways branch" or what but it was him on bass of course and Mayall on keys, Colin Allen on drums and Mick Taylor on guitar. So whatever you think is fine with me, just thought I'd point it out to cover as many bases as possible. :)

I'll go and start with Billy below now. I'll warn you though, I've got a lot of questions/plot holes etc. on ALL of these guys that we'll need to figure out, nothing new I guess after all! :)

John

Johnny Stew

09-06-2002, 01:16 PM

Hey John... maybe we could contact Michele and see if she can fill in any of the blanks you might have regarding Billy's info?

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

09-06-2002, 01:53 PM

As per usual, I just went by albums etc. for the most part, oh well, you know all of that, I'll get on with it...

(1966? suppossedly was a part of Brenda Lee's band for a "far eastern" tour but don't know anything beyond this. Also, apparently worked in Dorsey Burnette's (solo) band but don't know when or anything. OOH how I wish I was at the Penguin when Billy did his Q & A here! Anyone?)

I don't know the personnel for his early singles that I have like the "Billy Beau" billed one "Hey daddy (I'm gonna tell Santa on you)" b/w "Santa's coffee" and the 67-69 circa one under his real name, "Frog prince" b/w "One extreme to the other". I doubt there were "tours" for these anyways but whatever.

There's no musician credits on the copy I have of his selftitled album on Entrance from 1972 either so can't add anything to that.

I still haven't been able to ascertain if the "Bill Burnett" that played bass in the band called "Blue Jug" which had a selftitled album out in 1975 on Capricorn is OUR Billy or not. Though the album was co-produced by Larry Henley (who Billy was in cahoots with for a few years in regards to songwriting etc.) none of the songs on the record were written by Billy which would seem very strange for a writer of the stature for which he is known etc. It's definately not Billy singing leads on the album and it's tough to tell from the backups if it's him on there either. There are six people on the cover and only five listed as being in the "band" on the credits and it really is hard to tell from the picture if Billy is any of them! I can try and post a scan of the picture here to see if you can find Billy on it or not. If it's of any help, other than listing that this "Bill Burnett" plays bass, it lists Ed Ratzeloff on gtr/voc (and he is listed as the writer of all songs except he co-wrote one with Bill Little and Bill Little wrote one on his own). Speaking of Bill Little, he is listed next as keyboards, Clint DeLong is listed next as gtr/voc and "Mac" Paul Walkley is on drums. Anyone have better info on this at all? I don't know what we should think on this one.

To confuse matters, I have a single from 1976 called "Just another love song" (it's a promo so that's on both sides though I'm looking for a commercial copy which apparently has a song on the B-side called "Baby" if anyone has it, let me know and we'll talk!) and it's credited as being by "Billy Burnett & Jawbone". Note the missing "e" again but if you ever get to listen to it, it is DEFINATELY our Billy and he wrote the song with Delaney Bramlett. Once again though, no other details available on this "band" at all. Anyone (again)?

On Billy's selftitled 1979 Polydor album, it lists many musicians but it doesn't say which songs they are on so I can do the "common denominator" deal that I have been doing with the albums that do say which songs everyone is on etc. I'm more than happy to list them all here for you but I don't want to make things more of a mess then they already are for Billy's branch. Let me know. Sing along and follow the bouncing ball... anyone else know anything about this?! :)

Of the musicians listed on Billy's "Between friends" album, the ones that I would imagine "could" be in the "core band" include 4 other guitar players BESIDES Billy, 2 keys players, 2 bass, 1 drum & 1 percussion so once again as they don't break it down by song, I can't say which ones were more "popular" than others. Anyone else know anything about this time frame for Billy's live work?

Group: (Billy Burnette band)
Time line: 7/80-12/80?
Members: Billy (voc/gtr), Kimmie Gardner (bass), Chris Brosius (gtr), Ian Wallace (drums)

With Billy's selftitled 1980 Columbia record, there FINALLY seems to be a "band" feeling going on. YAY! I just guessed that as he was with Polydor in early '80 (for "Between friends"), I just put 7/80-12/80 for the dates though it's probably wrong, anyone else?!

Group: (Billy Burnette band)
Time line: 1/81-12/82
Members: Billy (voc/gtr), Jimmy Johnson (gtr), Philip Donnelly (gtr), Wayne Perkins (gtr), Duncan Cameron (gtr), David Hood (bass), Roger Hawkins (drums), Barry Beckett (keyboards)

(I wasn't going to list this as I doubt that Billy took 4 gtr players on the road with him so it's a "take your pick" deal I guess, I'm just showing you that sadly, this was one of the more easy ones to attempt to discect! I doubt the dates are right either, oh boy!) :)

(then joined Mick Fleetwood's Zoo, Christine Mcvie band etc. (WAS he in CM's band? I wasn't sure if he was just a "special guest" according to what CM says on the "Video album" videotape etc. or not or what))

Billy's "Try me" album lists 3 OTHER gtr players, 1 keyboard player, 3 bass players and 2 drummers. One of the two drummers is Mick so I doubt he was on tour with Billy at that time if ever (as a solo artist that is) but even if we assume it was the other guy and the keys guy, that still leaves us in a dillema about the bass and gtr seats. GRR! Anyone...? (I'm gonna fall asleep saying these words!)

Group: (Billy Burnette band)
Time line: 1/86-6/87
Members: Billy (voc/gtr), Billy Joe Walker Jr. (gtr), Michael Lawler (keyboards), Paul Leim (drums), Spady Brannan (bass)

Once again, I went by this lineup from his "Soldier of love" album so I don't know how correct it is if at all and I'm sure I've got a videotape kicking around somewhere of the Zoo (w/Billy) on "Rock Palace" in 1986 (and yes, I do have the RP videotape performance fron 1984 of the Zoo but this one has them doing newer Billy tunes (at the time) like "Get an education", "Guitar bug" etc.) so I doubt BB's solo tour lasted as long as I have it down for here due to this if nothing else anyways. Anyone?

(then joined FM...)

Billy's "Coming home" album lists 2 bass, 2 keys etc. etc. etc.) Anyone?

(then "rejoined" FM, then after "Time"...)

Group: Bekka & Billy
Time line: Bekka (voc), Billy (voc/gtr), Todd Sharp (gtr), Eddie Bayers (drums), Dave Pomeroy (bass), Steve Nathan (keyboards)

(I know the time line on this can't be right as I've got a video tape of Bekka on tour with Billy Joel (& Elton John) in Japan in 3/98 so change things how you will and I know TS was on gtr on their "Prime time country" appearance but I couldn't tell who else there was. I just went with the common denominators on the rest which are probably wrong anyways because there was a female fiddle player on the PTC show and there isn't a female fiddle player listed anywhere on the CD so...Anyone?)

Group: Billy Burnette band)
Time line: 1/99-12/99
Members: Billy (voc/gtr), David Roe (bass), Ian Wallace (drums), J.T. Corenflos (gtr)

I just used the "All night long" album credits on this one. Anyone?

Group: (Billy Burnette band)
Time line: 1/00- (present?)
Members: Billy (voc/gtr), David Roe (bass), Ian Wallace (drums), Kenny Vaughan (gtr)

I just used the "Are you with me baby" album credits. Anyone?

I skipped soundtrack/single only songs personnel and the like to not mess things up any more. Sorry I coudn't get better info, I'll keep digging though. At least it gives us some topics to hash around. Next up is Rick.

John

wetcamelfood

09-06-2002, 01:55 PM

Hi Johnny Stew, I just saw your post, yeah I hope Michele sees this and can add things as it looks like we'll need it! ANY help from ANYONE would be great!

John

David

09-06-2002, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
then joined Mick Fleetwood's Zoo, Christine Mcvie band etc. (WAS he in CM's band? I wasn't sure if he was just a "special guest" according to what CM says on the "Video album" videotape etc. or not or what)
That show with Christine was just a guest appearance; it was about four months before her tour actually started.

If you add Billy to Christine's band as a guest, you probably want to add some of the people who played for Stevie on numerous shows even though they weren't part of the core band, like Mick Fleetwood in 1986 (who played congas at all the shows out west), Marilyn Martin & Carolyn Brooks & Bill Payne in 1983, & Waddy Wachtel in 1994.

For Johnny Stew: The Bella Donna tour started Nov. 28. I think that notation for the 27th is just a flub.

wetcamelfood

09-06-2002, 03:15 PM

I know some of these "entries" will be real lame but I just figured I'd get it all down and in case the little tidbits sparks someone's memory or something...

1963 Rick was in a group called "Johnny & the Inspirations" don't know anything else, anyone?

Between 67-70 Rick was in bands called "The matrix", The Wright Brothers" and the "Vito-Valenti Blues band" but that's all I got. Anyone else?

Somewhere within 1971-72, Rick played in Delaney & Bonnie (Bramlett)'s band. Anyone have anything more concrete?

I assume he played live with Bobby Whitlock in '72 as he is listed as being in the "band" on the "Raw velvet" album along with Whitlock (voc/keyboards/gtr), Keith Ellis (bass) & Don Poncher (drums) but does anyone know for sure?

Within 1973-74 Rick may have been in a band of an artist I have an album by called "All I see is you" and his name was Rabindra (his full name was Rabindra Danks) as Rick is on this album (it looks like) in a big way but it's hard to make a "core" band out of the musicians listed on the album (see Billy's entry for the kinds of problems I mean!) During this time I know he toured with Dobie Gray & Little Richard (and possibly John Prine, but that's just a guess based on RV's heavy involvement with JP's "Common sense" album). Can anyone clear any of this up?

I don't know if this is the correct chronological place to put this or not but as long as I'm spouting off, John "Juke" Logan had a "band" called the "Juke Rhythm Band" which Rick appears to have been in according to JL's 1998 CD "Juke Rhythm" as there is a picture from 1975 of the JRB including Rick but the caption says that the album was a "20 year in studio reunion of the JRB" 1998 minus 20 years = 1978? Anyone?

Group: (John Mayall band)
Timeline: 1/75-6/76
Members: RV (gtr), John Mayall (gtr/harmonica/keyboards), Dee Mckinnie (voc), Soko Richardson (drums), Larry Taylor (bass), Jay Spell (keyboards), Don Harris (violin)

Group: (John Mayall band)
Timeline: 7/76-12/76
Members: RV (gtr), John Mayall (gtr/harmonica/keyboards), Dee Mckinnie (voc), Ron Mccurdy (drums), Larry Taylor (bass), Jay Spell (keyboards), Don Harris (violin)

(I used common denominators on the "New year new band new company" & "Notice to appear" albums and guessed as to when the proposed "exit" of Richardson was (as Mccurdy played on more songs from the "A banquet in blues" album in late '76)

Group: Roger Mcguinn's Thunderbyrd
Timeline: 1/77-6/77
Members: RV (gtr), Roger Mcguinn (voc/gtr), Greg Thomas (drums), Charlie Harrison (bass)

(guessed on dates but I do have a live CD (from a 4/77 show) and videotape (from a 2/77 show) of them in England & Germany (respectively) and RMT is how they were being billed)

Between 7/77 (let's say) and 12/78 Rick toured with Bonnie Raitt as I heard a live show a long time ago from this tour and Rick was definately on it but I don't know how long this tour was for though. I doubt it was for the time frame I've said! Anyone?

Group: (John Mayall band)
Time line: 1/79-12/79
Members: RV (gtr), John Mayall (gtr/harmonica/keyboards), James Quill Smith (gtr), Chris Cameron (keyboards), Christiaan Mostert (sax/flute), Angus Thomas (bass), Ruben Alvarez (drums), Maggie Parker (voc)

(went by the "No more interviews" album credits and guessed on dates. Anyone?)

Between 1/80 (let's say) and 6/82(?) Rick toured again with Bonnie Raitt. DEFINATELY on her "The glow" tour (as I heard yet another live show from this tour and he was announced etc.) and maybe again on her "Green light" tour. Strange in that he doesn't play on TG but does play on 4 songs from GL. He is not listed as being in the "bump band" on Bonnie's GL album though so who knows, anyone?

Group: (Jackson Browne band)
Time line: 7/82-12/83
Members: RV (gtr), Jackson Browne (voc/gtr), Doug Haywood (keyboards), Craig Doerge (keyboards), Bob Glaub (bass), Russ Kunkel (drums), Danny Kortchmar (gtr)

Both keys players were listed as being in the core band as the guest musicians from the "Lawyers in love" album are listed seperate from the "band" members so I guess we'll have to assume both were in there. Kortchmar is not listed on the "Lawyers in love" core band but he is on the "Downtown" videotape footage I have and played on "Somebody's baby" which must have been summer '82 at latest that SB was recorded. Was Kunkel on SN's WH tour? oops, I meant to check Johnny Stew's listing before posting this. Maybe we can figure from that when the Browne tour would've been (by default) as I had to guess on these dates again. I know the record RV recorded with Thelma Houston was done in '82 (but it was never released) if that helps narrow things down. Anyone?

Group: (Rita Coolidge band)
Time line: 1/84-12/85
Members: RV (gtr), Rita Coolidge (voc), Josh Leo (gtr), Mike Utley (keyboards), Kurtis Teel (bass), Thom Mooney (drums)

I guessed on the dates and I know it can't have been this long as Rick did other sessions during '84 and was in the TV movie "Jealousy" etc. so do what you will with these dates. I just used the common denominators from Rita's "Inside the fire" album for this listing as well. Anyone?

Group: Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band
Time line: 1/86-7/87
Members: RV (gtr), Bob Seger (voc), Chris Campbell (bass), Craig Frost (keyboards), Don Brewer (drums), Alto Reed (sax), Fred Tackett (gtr), Dawayne Bailey (gtr)

I know that's a lot of gtr players but I heard a live Seger show from this time and when introducing everbody, Bob listed a bunch of guitar players before FINALLY getting to Rick and I used the common denominators on the 'Like a rock" album for this. Tackett was not on the album much but I do remember Seger introducing him on the live show from that time. Anyone?

(then joined FM...)

I can list who played on "King of hearts" if you want here but Rick played bass and gtr on many of the songs so I don't think we'd get a common denominator bass player there and I don't think there was a tour for that album anyways, was there anyone?

(then joined SN band...)

(95-96 spent with family)

('97 spent recording "Pink & black")

Group: (Bonnie Raitt band)
Time line: 4/98-12/98
Members: RV (gtr), Bonnie Raitt (voc/gtr), Ricky Fatar (drums), Hutch Hutchinson (bass), Jon Cleary (keyboards)

Guessed on dates, got info from the V/A compilation "Lilith fair: A celebration of women in music - Volume 3" CD which has a live BR song from this tour. RV was NOT on the "Fundamental" album though. Anyone with better dates on this? In addition to VH1's "Storytellers", Bonnie (w/RV) was on Leno, Letterman, Rosie O'Donnell, Conan O'Brien & Oprah from this time if that helps figure out for dates etc. Anyone?

Was there a "Pink & black" tour in 1999? Anyone?

Group: Rick Vito & The Lucky Devils
Time line: 1/00-4/00
Members: RV (voc/gtr), Tommy Kay (gtr), Jimmy Dejulio (drums), Paul Egman (bass) (I think that's his last name, I watched my copy of the 4/00 German TV show "Ohne filter" and couldn't really hear what his name was, something like that! Sorry!) Anyone?

In the "summer" of '01 Rick toured with John Fogarty but don't know who else was in the band or the dates etc. Anyone?

('01 was apparently spent recording most of the year)

from 1/02 (to present?) Rick has gone to Germany twice to play live. With him is Rick Reed on drums and Charlie Harrison on bass but I don't know if there's anyone else for a "mandatory fourth" member or if they are just a trio. Anyone?

I'll keep digging for better info on him but maybe in the meantime some one can plug up the holes? That's all I've got on RV for now anyways. Next up, Dave Mason. I'll have to finish this tomorrow or possibly in a few days though. See ya then! :)

John

Johnny Stew

09-06-2002, 04:57 PM

David... thanks for catching that! :)
I've made the correction to my original post.

Johnny Stew

bjk3047

09-06-2002, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by chiliD
Lindsey's OotC tour band:
Steve Ross-guitar
Neale Haywood-guitar
Janet Robin-guitar
Lisa Carbe-guitar
Fredrico Pol-bass
Chad Wackerman-"drums"
Michael Tempo-percussion
Dan Garfield-keyboards
Two quick questions:
1) Who was on vocals as well?
2) If one were to pull two names from the guitar category for the tree, which would be the most important? (I don't really want to exceed 6 entries in one band, I'd think it's a bit overboard...am I right?)

Brian - SN bands look great! I should get them done by Weds at the latest.

David - You're right on the money reagrding Billy in CMV's band, and I think it would be good to stay away from guest appearences with the exception of possibly Sheryl Crow on SN's TISL tour (dotted line a la Peter Green).
She would qualify as a band member after actively participating in a good half of the shows, right?

John - In refernce to JMV's "sideways line" for the JM reunion tour, I think that's what's going to have to happen for SN, MF and CMV's solo tours. SPEAKING of which! Before we jump the gun on Billy and the others from 90's FM, we need MF and CMV solo tour lineups to get in there. Who's got 'em?

-Brian

Johnny Stew

09-07-2002, 12:10 AM

Well, with all due respect to Ms. Carbe and Ms. Robin, I think Steve Ross and Neale Heywood are probably the two that are absolutely essential to include... because they have other connections to the band and its members.

But that's just my two cents.

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

09-07-2002, 12:08 PM

Regarding MF "solo" for "the side", I listed these earlier in the thread:

Group: (Mick Fleetwood Band)
Time line: 1981?
Members: MF (drums), George Hawkins (bass/voc), Todd Sharp (gtr/voc), Lord Tiki (congas)

Group: Mick Fleetwood's Zoo
Time Line: 1983?
Members: MF (drums), George Hawkins (bass/voc), Steve Ross (gtr/voc), Billy Burnette (gtr/voc)

Group: The Zoo
Time Line: 1992?
Members: MF (drums), Bekka Bramlett (voc), Billy Thorpe (gtr/voc), Gregg Wright (gtr), Tom Lilly (bass), Brett Tuggle (keyboards)

These are just from the albums, the '81 stuff is backed up (mostly) by the "Visitor" CED laserdisc video documentary deal about the project. The '83 stuff is backed up by the fact that the Zoo's TV performances of the time "Thicke of the night", "Rock palace", SNL etc.) had the same lineup. Same as well for the '92 Zoo from the "Dennis Miller" & 'Arsenio" clips. However, shows like A & E's "Inside track" from 1990 (when MF was promoting his book) had the Zoo playin' some tunes and Todd Sharp was there (I presume in place of Steve Ross?) but I don't know if we should get in to those "confusing" areas with these guys too or not. Whatever you think. :)

CM's solo band from '84 was George Hawkins (bass), Todd Sharp (gtr) & Steve Ferrone (drums).

Sorry for the miscommunication. I only "forged ahead" with Billy, Rick etc. as you had said I "had the green light" to post their stuff once the SN & LB stuff was posted and it seemed straightforward enough (to me) when it was (as I didn't know about not wanting to have more than 6 in a lineup etc.). Also, as it was mainly there for "referring to" I figured I'd just get it all down and then we could iron out any details on the members in question before an entry is made to the tree.

So, since I have a few minutes free now (earlier than I thought I would) and I don't have much left to post now anyways (just DM & (what I can on...) Bekka), I'm just gonna put that stuff in now so it will simply leave the ironing out to finish off in this "long time tired" thread (as you had stated)! :) OK? So here comes Dave M's stuff...

John

David

09-07-2002, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by bjk3047
Before we jump the gun on Billy and the others from 90's FM, we need MF and CMV solo tour lineups to get in there. Who's got 'em?

1984 Christine Solo Tour

Christine McVie, keyboards
Eddy/Eddie Quintela, keyboards
Todd Sharp, guitar
George Hawkins, bass
Steve Ferrone, drums
(possibly Stephen Bruton on some dates)

I think the membership in the Zoo was revolving door through the years. It would be tough to track every last player unless you happened to see every last show. At the 1983 UCLA Rock & Run charity benefit, the Zoo was Mick Fleetwood (drums), Billy Burnette (vocals/guitars), George Hawkins (bass), Steve Ross (guitars) & Stevie Nicks (vocals).

For the 1992 "Shakin' the Cage" tour, the Zoo was Mick Fleetwood (drums), Billy Thorpe (vocals/guitars), Bekka Bramlett (vocals), Billy Burnette (vocals/guitars), Gregg Wright (guitars), Tom Lilly (bass) & Brett Tuggle (keyboards).

wetcamelfood

09-07-2002, 01:48 PM

He's a little more straightforward but I asked around the DM community for more accurate TOURING personnel info but got no responses so I had to go mainly from the albums (from some of the DM videos I DO have, it's hard to tell who some of these guys are) so at least this should be a start anyways :) Had to guess on many dates due to album release dates etc. as you know and I keep saying but I just figured I'd say it here so I don't have to retype it after every lineup/album! :) You'll know it applies in virtually every case. Hopefully someone can provide better info than this for us soon.

Group: The Jaguars
Time line: 1961-1963
Members: DM (gtr), Mick Mann (gtr), Dennis Morgan (bass), Roger Moss (drums)

(they had 2 singles, the first (which I do have) was released in '63 but the much harder to find second one was apparently released in '65 but I don't know if that's correct or not)

Group: The Hellions
Time line: 1964-1965
Members: DM (gtr), Jim Capaldi (voc/drums), Tony Hill (bass), Gordon Jackson (gtr)

(in '66 there has been some reports that DM had hung around and played in Capaldi's band at the time called Deep Feeling but he was not actually a member and regardless of what some reports claim, the 3 tracks recorded by DF were never released anyways. By all accounts most of '66 DM spent being a rodie for the Spencer Davis Group)

Group: Traffic
Time line: 1/67?-12/67 & 5/68-11/68
Members: DM (voc/gtr/bass), Steve Winwood (voc/keyboards/gtr), Jim Capaldi (voc/drums), Chris Wood (sax/flute)

(DM left Traffic in 12/67 but returned in 5/68. During 12/67-5/68 he had recorded with Jimi Hendrix (Electric ladyland) & The Rolling Stones (Beggars banquet) etc.

Group: Mason Capaldi Wood & Frog
Time line: 12/68-6/69?
Members: DM (gtr), Jim Capaldi (drums), Chris Wood (sax/flute), Mick Weaver (AKA "Wynder K. Frog") (keyboards)

(this short lived group never recorded though one BBC "transcription disc" has apparently floated around. I do know that they were the opening act for the Jimi Hendrix Experience gig at London's Albert Hall on 2/24/69 if that's of any help but I had to kind of guess on the dates to "fill in the gaps")

Group: Delaney & Bonnie (Bramlett) & Friends
Time line: 7/69-11/69
Members: DM (gtr), Delaney Bramlett (voc/gtr), Bonnie Bramlett (voc), Leon Russell (gtr/keyboards), Bobby Whitlock (keyboards), Carl Radle (bass), Bobby Keys (sax), Jim Price (horns), Jim Keltner (drums), Rita Coolidge (backing voc)

(I had to guess on the starting date and I'm assuming that this lineup ended in 11/69 due to the fact that I know Clapton joined in 12/69 (at the latest) for the "Coming home" single but DM has said that he was with the D & B band as the opening act for Blind Faith on thier one and only tour (which I understand was in the summer of '69 so it may very well have started before 7/69 but I just couldn't find anything so I just guessed 7/69. Change it how you will! :) )

Group: Delaney & Bonnie (Bramlett) & Friends
Time line: 12/69-3/70
Members: DM (gtr), Delaney Bramlett (voc/gtr), Bonnie Bramlett (voc), Leon Russell (gtr/keyboards), Bobby Whitlock (keyboards), Carl Radle (bass), Bobby Keys (sax), Jim Price (horns), Jim Gordon (drums), Rita Coolidge (backing voc), Eric Clapton (gtr), Tex Johnson (percussion)

Group: Derek & The Dominoes
Time line: (one gig, 6/14/70)
Members: DM (gtr), Bobby Whitlock (keyboards), Carl Radle (bass), Jim Gordon (drums), Eric Clapton (voc/gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 4/70-6/70 & 6/70-8/70?
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Leon Russell (keyboards), Jim Capaldi (drums), John Simon (keyboards), Jim Keltner (drums), Jim Gordon (drums), Chris Etheridge (bass), Carl Radle (bass)

(I know, I know, too many keys, drums etc. but I just had to go by the "Alone together" album for this and can't find out anything about a tour, you'll know that this sentence will apply to all DM albums for the most part so I don't retype it after each one and I had to guess on the dates too, nothing new there either! :) )

Group: Dave Mason & Cass Elliot
Time line: 9/70-4/71
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Cass Elliot (voc), Paul Harris (keyboards), Bryan Garo (bass), Russ Kunkel (drums)

Group: Traffic
Time line: 5/71-7/71
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Steve Winwood (voc/keyboards/gtr), Jim Capaldi (voc/tam/drums), Chris Wood (sax/flute), Rick Grech (bass), Reebop Kwaku Baah (percussion), Jim Gordon (drums)

Yup, 2 drums again but this lineup only lasted 6 gigs, long enough to record the (great!) live album "Welcome to the canteen" and this was the personnel listed on it. It was not unusual for Capaldi to get up front on stage for percussives while others would play drums in later Traffic lineups (as evident on their "Live in Santa Monica 1972" videotape so this would probably be right enough)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 8/71-4/73
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mark Jordan (keyboards), Lonnie Turner (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums)

(as DM was embroiled in a lengthy lawsuit wit Blue Thumb Records for most of 72-73 I doubt this line up actually lasted this long but I just put it down as such to plug up the gaps)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 5/73-10/74
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mark Jordan (keyboards), Carl Radle (bass), Greg Reeves (bass), Jim Keltner (drums)

(these 2 bass players were listed on the same amount of songs from the "It's like you never left" album so take yer pick! :) )

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 11/74-8/75
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mike Finnigan (keyboards), Bob Glaub (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 9/75?
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Jai Winding (keyboards), Gerald Johnson (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

(this was the "main" lineup on Dave's "Split coconut" album which I think was released in Sep '75 but then the line up for the "Certified live" album which was recorded on the SC tour lists:...)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 10/75-6/78
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mike Finnigan (keyboards), Gerald Johnson (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

(...and Finnigan sings lead on "Goin' down slow" from CL so there's no way it's a misprint or anything. This "lineup", by all accounts, also lasted throughout the "Let it flow" album, "Cal Jam 2" etc.)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 7/78-12/79
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mark Stein (keyboards), Gerald Johnson (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 1/80-12/80
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Mark Stein (keyboards), Bob Glaub (bass), Rick Jaeger (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 1/81-12/86
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Jim Krueger (gtr)

(it was at this time that Dave did solely acoustic tours with Jim Krueger as a duo as evident on the "Live at Perkins palace" DVD (originally released as "Dave Mason In Concert" on VHS in 1981) I know it was for quite a few years but I don't think it was for this long as this was his "drug time" as well, staying at the Blue Whale etc. but I don't understand why in the "Bob Welch & friends live at the Roxy" show, BW introduces Mark Stein as being from "Dave Mason's band" as this show was most definately from 81/82? Maybe he meant that he WAS in DM's band? Well, whatever! :) )

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 1/87-6/87
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Larry Cohn (keyboards), Vernon Porter (bass), Bill Meeker (drums), Jim Krueger (gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 7/87-12/89
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Chris Corss (keyboards), Wally Hustin (bass), Joe Bellia (drums), Gary Bruns (gtr)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 1/90-1993?
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Guy Dominick (keyboards), Walter Dziedzic (bass), Joe Bellia (drums), Mark Karan (gtr)

(then joined FM...)

(it was reported in 4/97 that DM was to join Ringo Starr's all stars band for a tour but he must have pulled out of it or something because I can't find any evidence that he was actually ever on this tour. Anyone?)

Group: (Dave Mason & Jim Capaldi band)
Time line: 1/98-12/00
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Steve Thoma (keyboards), Alex Drizos (bass), Jim Capaldi (drums)

(once again, I don't think this lasted this long either but I have to assume Capaldi was there in 2000 as (I assume) this lineup cut a new studio version of "(Roamin' through the gloamin with) 40,000 headmen" (as it is JC on vocals I think) for the otherwise live, (what is referred to in the DM community as the...) "2000 touring disc" that was recorded and sold solely at DM live shows and on line at the time)

Group: (Dave Mason band)
Time line: 1/01-(present?)
Members: DM (voc/gtr), Bobby Scumaci (keyboards), Rich Campbell (bass), Greg Babcock (drums), John Sambataro (gtr)

(this is the lineup on the new "Live at Sunrise" CD/DVD releases anyways).

I've mainly got stuff to run by you guys for what you want to do (if anything) about Bekka's "bands?" up next.

John

wetcamelfood

09-07-2002, 02:05 PM

Now, here's a brief outline of what I've got as an overview for Bekka's career so far (in regards to touring)

Backing vocals for:

Belinda Carlisle (1987-88) (even though she sang BV's on all songs (except one) on BC's "Runaway horses" album released in 1989, she was not on the RH tour but was on the "Heaven on earth" tour (as evident from a "Tonight show" appearance I've got on videotape from '87 and the "Belinda Live" 1988 videotape release.

She possibly toured with Warrant and/or Rod Stewart in '89 (?)

Toured with The Moody Blues between 1990-91

(then joined Zoo, then FM, then Bekka & Billy (see Billy's listing for that stuff!)

Toured with Billy Joel in early '98

Since '99, it seems to mainly be recording sessions, inpromtu gigs, the annual Delbert Mcclinton cruise ship deal etc.

I would say to leave this stuff off as number one, I can't find out much else stuff on any of this (besides what I've listed) and number two, she did do the backing vocals but probably wasn't considered as being in the "band". I just wanted to check with everyone though as I assume Sharon, Lori, etc. are being listed for Stevie's bands but whatever way is decided on this stuff is fine with me. :) So, I hope some of this stuff helps and we can sort it all out to our liking in some way soon. :)

John

wetcamelfood

09-07-2002, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by David
For the 1992 "Shakin' the Cage" tour, the Zoo was Mick Fleetwood (drums), Billy Thorpe (vocals/guitars), Bekka Bramlett (vocals), Billy Burnette (vocals/guitars), Gregg Wright (guitars), Tom Lilly (bass) & Brett Tuggle (keyboards).

Geez, I saw The Zoo, in '92 at The Paradise club in Boston (Allston) MA a week after the FM convention in Austin TX and Billy Burnette wasn't at my show. Just my luck. :) Which show did you see that he was at from that tour?

Anyways, thanks for the more detailed info on the CM tour David, I didn't see that tour so I just went by the video but I now know that was done before the tour etc. so this is cool that we're getting better data now! :)

John

Johnny Stew

09-08-2002, 03:27 PM

In regards to John's question about Sharon and Lori, I would think that they should definitely have a place on the tree, since they also have connections to Fleetwood Mac (Lori toured with the band for 'Shake The Cage,' and Sharon toured with them for 'Shake The Cage,' 'Behind The Mask,' and 'The Dance').

Three of Stevie's other backing singers should probably also be included: Elisecia Wright ('Shake The Cage'); Lynn Mabry ('Behind The Mask'), and Mindy Stein ('The Dance').

I'd imagine that the others aren't absolutely necessary.

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

09-08-2002, 04:20 PM

I'm all for having Sharon/Lori etc. included if that's what everyone else thinks. :) What I mainly meant though in regards to my Sharon/Lori comment was that if THEY are deemed important enough to be included in the tree as "part of a band" as backing vocalists, then would it be fair to say that Bekka backing up, say The Moody Blues etc. should be included by the same token? I mean, I can't find any further info on any of those bands lineups I discussed in regards to Bekka's touring career so I would say leave them all off (if no one else can find further lineup details of the bands I listed that Bekka had toured with) but I know it would be upsetting to many here if Sharon/Lori etc. were to be left off if no further data can be found on Bekka's other "band" activities in regards to touring in order to "keep things fair" politically speaking so what should be done about this? Brian? I'll go with whatever, but I personally feel that either they all go on or none go on because how can some backing singers be considered important enough to be "part of a band" and others can't (especially in the case of Bekka who WAS a member of FM after all)? JMHO though. :)

John

Johnny Stew

09-08-2002, 07:54 PM

Yikes! This is definitely a grey area! :laugh:

I know what you mean, John, and that does make sense.
I guess the main reason why I thought to include Sharon & Lori on the tree, is mainly the "importance" of the connection (that they've not only been a part of Stevie's touring bands, but have also toured with Fleetwood Mac).

Though, don't get me wrong, I don't think they warrant their own sub-branches (no mentions are needed of Sharon's appearances with Mick Jagger, for example).

And I definitely see your point about Bekka.

I'm still of the mind that in some instances, a simple notation such as "toured with ______, this date - that date," is enough, and that a breakdown of the full band lineup isnt always necessary.
But that's just me.
:)

I just realized... when Brian's all done with this, the tree is going to be the size of a subway poster!!!
:laugh:

Johnny Stew

wetcamelfood

09-09-2002, 05:59 AM

Oh I know, I agree, Johnny, I didn't mean for that last post to sound aggresive or anything. Yeah, I didn't mean that Sharon/ Lori etc. should have the Jagger entries etc. but having the notations would be a good idea for Bekka if no further info can be found on her stuff, I never thought of that and I often forget how Sharon/Lori etc. did tour with FM AS WELL AS SN so it does make for a good connection that should make for interesting reading for anyone that does come across the tree. :) So I'm cool to go with whatever. :) As you say though, the subway sized tree poster will make for long time studies, hopefully without too many neck cranes in the process! :)

John

bjk3047

09-09-2002, 11:03 PM

Just got back from a long weekend trip...
I myself would be hesitant to list backup singers. I do definitely see Mindy, Sharon, and Lori's importance, but that begins to get tough as discussed. Although, it wouldn't be fair to Bekka to place even significance to her and Stevie's backups. Afterall, the effort on the tree is map out all the endeavors of all the members of FM. Certainly gray area. I dunno. I was leaning towards no before, but I'm now thinking to myself "If Stevie ever sang backup for a band, would we leave that entry out?" So perhaps we should put Bekka's backup in if we get lineups.
One major concern to Mindy and co. though, perhaps Brian can help me out on this because I never really followed Stevie's solo endeavors: Do you think Stevie's branches could be relisted with the most important 6 (including Stevie)? Once an entry passes six people, it begins to look a little akward and take up a pretty good amount of space. If backups, belong there, by all means, as long as the *band* is represented.

Phew! DM really got around! That one's gonna be a looong one. But hey, you can't beat the detail that John put out on this stuff!
I'll have an update in the next two days,
-Brian

Johnny Stew

09-09-2002, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by bjk3047
Do you think Stevie's branches could be relisted with the most important 6 (including Stevie)?This will probably be a dumb question, but do you mean a total of six band-members combined from all of her tours.... or a maximum of six members, per tour?

Johnny Stew

bjk3047

09-10-2002, 02:42 PM

Perfectly logical question to ask... Six per tour. Six for all would be nearly impossible....although it may not be a bad idea for a thread on the Stevie board.
-Brian

bjk3047

09-11-2002, 09:08 PM

Well I didn't want to jump the gun on the Stevie solo shows without the more logical lineups, so I finished off two pieces of the Brunning Sunflower Blues Band branch: http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html
ALSO! I discovered a problem (also in the picture with the work). With the additions of Pre-FM Weston, I cut off Spencer and Green Post-FM and the last thing I want to do is cross lines, it would be so much cooler if we could avoid that. And the left side is already cluttered enough. Any aestheticly minded people out there who could figure out how to keep Weston on that side but open up JS and PG? I included a much bigger picture so that someone can firgure this out :) I'll likely add some post-FM Welch as Brian gets around to Stevie solo (Brian - take your time, I'm not rushing you in the least, there's buttloads of stuff to be done that can come before SN).
-Brian

wetcamelfood

09-12-2002, 02:05 PM

That 1/3 size thumbnail is killer Brian! :) Well, anyways, there may be others but as of now anyways, I've come across a few small things that need to be changed (according to what I see on that 1/3 thumbnail deal):

"Shotgun Express 3" should NOT have Rod Stewart as he left (I presume) at the end of 12/66 and was not replaced as the SE 3 lineup (minus Stewart of course) cut the "Funny 'cos neither could I" b/w "Indian thing" single without him and Beryl & Peter Bardens handled the vocals on FCNCI together in Rod's absence("Indian thing" was/is an instrumental track) That one was my goof, I listed him in "3" earlier. Sorry about that! :)

"Savoy Brown 1" (with Bob Brunning) should be listed as ending in 10/67 (and not 11/67) and it was SB 2 that recorded the "Taste and try before you buy" b/w "Someday people" single which (I understand) was recorded in 10/67. As a result, SB 2 should start in 10/67 (and not 11/67).

In the Fritz listing, I noticed that Javier is spelled with an "X" instead of a "J" but I know that's the way it was on the Pete Frame original tree so it's his goof more than anything else! :) I assume "Javier" is the correct spelling as he never said anything about it at his Q & A or anything as far as I know. Is this right?

John

bjk3047

09-12-2002, 09:51 PM

Done, done, and done. Someone must have been dictating the lineup for Fritz, that would also explain Bob "Ageary" :rolleyes:
-Brian

wetcamelfood

01-28-2003, 04:04 PM

Sorry to dig this up again but in case it's of interest anymore, I got a book called "Blues rock explosion" I would recommend (from 2001, Old Goat Publishing, ISBN No.: 0-9701332-7-8) which explains that the Bob Weston line up of Black Cat Bones was:

Bob Weston - Lead guitar
Derek Brooks- Rhythm guitar
Paul Tiller - Vocals
Stu Brooks - Bass
Terry Sims - Drums

Unfortunately the dates are hazy. It does say that this line up of BCB only recorded one song called "The warmth of the day" which was recorded for a mainly narrative commemoration album regarding the Queen Elizabeth II ship. I did track down a copy of this album and it's called "Come aboard! QE2" (1969, Sceptre Records, catalog number: SALR 1216). As there are few songs woven in to the narration of the album, there is no tracklisting as such but it does list BCB as the "pop group" on the album and although the song's lyrics don't say "The warmth of the day" specifically, they do discuss the sun etc. so it stands to reason this is the song in question but back to the "dates". The "Blues rock explosion" book says that Weston was in a band prior to BCB known as Giant Marrowfat and that it included a sax player named Lol Coxhill (but that's it). I would imagine they weren't together too long as it doesn't say anythimg else about them. It does say that as Weston had replaced Paul Kossoff (and Kossoff and Simon Kirke went off to start Free) Free's first rehearsal took place (according to this book) on April 19, 1968 and "Beat instrumental" magazine reported that BCB was to go in to the studio and record a full album for release at the end of 1968 (but of course we now know that BCB's one and only album "Barbed wire sandwich" was not releaed until Nov 1969 (and this book also confirms that Bob Weston was NOT in the line up of BCB that recorded the BWS album) so I think it's safe to assume the ORIGINAL recording sessions for the planned album didn't happen (at least not with this line up). So, if we figure that Kossoff & Kirke needed SOME time to set up Free then maybe we could get away with saying the Weston BCB started in 3/68 and maybe went to 12/68 and then we could have Weston & Sims starting Ashkan in 1/69? Just a thought. :)

Not sure what to put for Giant Marrowfat (if anything) as I can't find anything else about them and with The Kinetic "Live your life" album in 1967, my guess would be 1/68-2/68 for GM and end The Kinetic in 12/67 (if we can come up with any other members of GM but if it took this long to find out about the story behind BCB then it's not likely we'll find out anything further on GM but here's hoping anyways. :)

This "Blues rock explosion" book is cool anyways though as it's more accurate than most other similar books of this type and it has a forward by Bob Brunning and a chapter on FM and other interestig related chapters on BCB as well as the Brunning Hall Sunflower Blues Band, Chicken Shack, John Mayall, Savoy Brown, Dave Kelly, Jo Ann Kelly, among many others. OK, end of commercial. If anyone has any ideas on how any of this can be taken further then please do post about it here. :)

John

iamstevienicks

01-28-2003, 06:04 PM

Just been trying to digest all that, fascinating stuff!!

Did anyone ever actually make up a complete timeline with all the info collected?

And for the completist collectors out there, would you want everything by every single related artist?

I dont think I would/could go that far :o

Good work guys

bjk3047

01-28-2003, 11:37 PM

That would be my department ;) Check the link I have in one of my previous posts in this thread.
There were a lot of loose ends at the time...and everything just grinded to a halt. You can imagine my surprise when I saw this up on the top again! I'll have to dig up all the work (I did save it, thank God lol). I think we can complete this tree as a part 1 of 2. For the sake of aesthetics and size of the tree itself, this tree can chart all of the involvements of FM personnel prior to their joining the band. Makes sense?
As I look at it now, all that's left is from Billy and Rick to Dave Mason and the Time crew. True enough, those guys were journeymen, but if we work the tree like that, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
-Brian

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 04:10 AM

I'll run the new Bob Weston stuff past his webmaster, who I happen to now know, and see if he can shed any more light or confirmation on it. :)

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 04:13 AM

Looking at the tree I don't see the Levi Set Blues group, or whatever they were called, on it. Is that due to a total lack of data, or what?

iamstevienicks

01-29-2003, 06:09 AM

Originally posted by bjk3047
That would be my department ;) Check the link I have in one of my previous posts in this thread.
There were a lot of loose ends at the time...and everything just grinded to a halt. You can imagine my surprise when I saw this up on the top again! I'll have to dig up all the work (I did save it, thank God lol). I think we can complete this tree as a part 1 of 2. For the sake of aesthetics and size of the tree itself, this tree can chart all of the involvements of FM personnel prior to their joining the band. Makes sense?
As I look at it now, all that's left is from Billy and Rick to Dave Mason and the Time crew. True enough, those guys were journeymen, but if we work the tree like that, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
-Brian

wow, its fantastic :D Thanx for all your efforts, there is alot of people involved in the makeup of the mac, its astonishing :eek:

I assume from Fleetwood mac #12 your including what lineup consisted on tour and not on album, just because of the omission of Christine replaced by Steve Thomas (who I have never heard of) :o

Oooh, u know u could market this thing as one big massive poster and sell it, its something I would love to have dawbed over my wall

wetcamelfood

01-29-2003, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by fleetfootmike
Looking at the tree I don't see the Levi Set Blues group, or whatever they were called, on it. Is that due to a total lack of data, or what?

Yeah, this falls in to the "lack of data" category (as with other bands (such as Weston's "Giant Marrowfat" that I spoke of). We know they exist, but don't know either the names of the other people in the group and/or the instruments they played. As it is, we've just had to do a lot of guessing on the dates.

John

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 07:04 AM

Just spoke to Bob W's webmaster - he's going to run the stuff past Bob and an ex-BCB drummer to see if it triggers any memories.

wetcamelfood

01-29-2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by bjk3047
That would be my department ;) Check the link I have in one of my previous posts in this thread.
There were a lot of loose ends at the time...and everything just grinded to a halt. As I look at it now, all that's left is from Billy and Rick to Dave Mason and the Time crew. True enough, those guys were journeymen, but if we work the tree like that, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
-Brian

As it is, we may grind to a halt again as I posted what I could on the Time guys (and gals) earlier but since there were many areas where I had run out of sources for further investigation on those questionable topics etc. I couldn't really add to them so unfortunately, I don't know if there is anything else I can really add to this now that I haven't already said earlier in this thread but hopefully if someone looks at what I (and others) came up with on those guys (and gals) earlier in this thread then (hopefully, again) they may know of a way to get this info we couldn't find that I/we may have overlooked. So if anyone has any further ideas about how to find this elusive data, NOW is the time to step forward! :)

John

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 09:46 AM

From Steve Fairhead (Bob Weston's webmaster):

"Coincidentally, Bob just phoned, so I bounced your email off him.

"He basically said that whoever wrote the message knew more about it than he did, and that most of what he could recall was accurately reported. Line-up is correct; the QE2 song is correct (he'd totally forgotten about it, and he wrote it!); Lol Coxhill etc is correct. So: the facts are correct; dates etc he's less sure about, but he's pretty confident they're right. Certainly there was nothing in there that he disagreed with."

Doctor Brown

01-29-2003, 11:11 AM

Wasn't the Levi Set Blues Band:
John and Ian Charles and Jeremy Spencer?

chiliD

01-29-2003, 11:58 AM

Jeez, if you get into the "Time" lineup, you have to deal with Dave Mason's tree...which has a link (via bass player Gerald Johnson) to the Steve Miller Band, which has a direct link in the person of Boz Scaggs to Toto, and then you have to deal with Steve Lukather's & Jeff Porcaro's lineage to Steely Dan, which leads to the Doobie Bros, which leads to...{sigh}...I'm exhausted already.

wetcamelfood

01-29-2003, 03:00 PM

Doctor Brown - Hey that's great info! Do you know what instruments John & Ian played (& which one played which) and the start and end dates?

ChiliD - Yeah, that would be cool but I'm guessing Brian is just gonna stick to the 16 FM members for now anyways. Maybe someday we'll go from the "tree" to the "forest"! :)

John

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 03:31 PM

Giant Marrowfat (from the man himself, via Steve again):

Bob Weston: guitar
Lol Coxhill: sax
Steve York: bass
various drummers

He also says he did play with Graham Bond before Long John Baldry and "just after" (he thinks) Black Cat Bones: lineup had John Hiseman on drums and Dick Heckstall-Smith on sax.

He also says that he played with Alexis Korner after the Mac.

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 03:55 PM

A little bit of web research threw up:

http://www.geocities.com/alexquo/ashmanreynolds.htm which lists the album credits as:

Madeline Bell - Vocals (Blue Mink)
Aliki Ashman - Vocals (Ginger Baker, Graham Bond)
Keith Boyce - Drums (Heavy Metal Kids, Savoy Brown)
Tony Clarke - Percussion
Rod Edwards - Guitar, Keyboards, Vocals (Piccadilly Line, Gordon Giltrap)
Mickey Keene - Guitar (Alex Harvey, Hair musical)
Ladbroke Horns
Harry Reynolds - Bass, Guitar, Vocals
Liza Strike - Vocals (backing vocals on everyone's records, from Leo Sayer and Carly Simon to Pink Floyd, Nazareth and Whitesnake)
Bob Weston - Guitar (Murray Head, Fleetwood Mac, Long John Baldry)

fleetfootmike

01-29-2003, 04:05 PM

Getting the Bob Welch data sanity checked - anyone any specific gaps they want looking at?

wetcamelfood

01-29-2003, 07:22 PM

Well, rather than rehash all of what we've already said on the previous 8 pages of this thread, you could just scroll back and see what we still need as I (and others) indicated things to the effect of "we know (such and such) played with (whomever) but don't know (when/who else was there/what they played) etc. lots of questions to be answered you'll find! :) Thanks for the great help, I did make my best "educated guesses" on the "live" Ashman Reynolds lineup based on the album as you will see too but anything you (or anyone else) come up with on our "blank areas" is a step in the right direction. :)

John

bjk3047

01-30-2003, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
As it is, we may grind to a halt again as I posted what I could on the Time guys (and gals) earlier but since there were many areas where I had run out of sources for further investigation on those questionable topics etc. I couldn't really add to them so unfortunately, I don't know if there is anything else I can really add to this now that I haven't already said earlier in this thread but hopefully if someone looks at what I (and others) came up with on those guys (and gals) earlier in this thread then (hopefully, again) they may know of a way to get this info we couldn't find that I/we may have overlooked. So if anyone has any further ideas about how to find this elusive data, NOW is the time to step forward! :)

John

I do have to (and will quite shortly) get to work on those parts of the tree. I should get a good 5 or 6 entries done by mid-weekend, I'm just a little busy as of now. Just wanted to pipe up that work shall resume!
-Brian

fleetfootmike

01-31-2003, 03:36 AM

Steve Fairhead (Bob Weston's webmaster) kindly offered to bounce the current version of the tree past Bob _Welch_, with whom he's also in contact.

Bob: Headwest made one album on "Disques Vogue" in France in '68.

Note the spelling of Headwest.

bjk3047

02-01-2003, 08:59 PM

I took the space out of Head_west (presuming that was the correction you were making).
If that's the case with Headwest, can Bob clear up when he left the Seven Souls? Because my information says he left in '69 (overlapping his joining Headweast in '68). Thanks for the help, much appreciated, Mike!
-Brian
P.S. I added Black Cat Bones to the tree, just to make sure I interpreted correctly, do check: http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html
I also finished the first two entries for Dave Mason, but I'll have to wait until the end to integrate them onto the tree. The 1/3 size full tree was updated as well.

wetcamelfood

02-24-2003, 07:31 PM

This is a cover scan for the Head west album I had sent Marty for the Penguin discography a while back:

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/penguin/covers/headwest.jpg

You'll notice there IS a space in between the "Head" and "west" and it is this way on the label of the album as well so I personally would go with having the space between the two words but whatever you guys think. :)

Also, I just happened to notice on the tree link that there was Mar 66 as the start date for Black cat bones, that should be Mar 1968. So to be clear, Weston's time in BCB was from March 1968 to December 1968 (or at least that's what I personally think we should guess as for now unless we get more concrete info on that in the future.. :)

John

bjk3047

02-24-2003, 09:51 PM

Hmmm, graphical evidence :) Head West it is.
Sorry to say John, but your eyes decieve you. It actually is a 68 on Black Cat Bones, so it's correct as is. By the end of this weekend, I should have the (very long) Dave Mason branch done, so get your proof-reading eyes ready!
-Brian

wetcamelfood

02-25-2003, 07:27 AM

Sorry for the "68 goof"! :)

OK, I'm going to splash some water on my face now to be ready for the checking later. :)

John

bjk3047

02-25-2003, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by bjk3047
so get your proof-reading eyes ready!

Haha....my bad...
I actually didn't mean that to you specifically John, I meant anyone who's wathcing this thread. Poor choice of wording lol
-Brian

bjk3047

03-01-2003, 08:19 PM

Well Dave Mason is done:
http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

A couple questions/clarifications as follows...
Delaney And Bonnie - I just dashed Clapton as Green was to denote some shows, I figure it'd save an entry....which we have many of for Dave.

Where I had to choose between two of an instrumentalist, I chose the most feasible (ex. not Capaldi post-Traffic since odds are he didn't tour with him) or the one that seemed to me the more well known or more often used, please do correct me if necessary here, I'm not real familiar with Dave.

Dave Mason #10...Chris Corss? And I assume Bruns is right as well? Bruns is a slightly more commonplace name, but I couldn't find any specific reference to either on the web for spelling.

That's about it! Next we have to figure out what to do with Bekka....should be interesting conversation...
-Brian

wetcamelfood

03-01-2003, 08:51 PM

My browser won't let me see the Dave Mason section in a "blown up" fashion so I hope someone else can check that one over but I'm sure it'll be fine. :)

Well, unless anyone else knows where we can get those dates and personnel on those bands Bekka had worked with I guess we will have to just leave her out (apart from the Zoo or whatever it is that we DO have on her in there) but just a shame, I guess it's kind of the same with Billy really since his branch is kind of a mess due to the fact that we can't get specific info on his "outside Mac" excursions.

So, I guess I've done what I can here but hopefully someone else will have some ideas how to tidy things up in these areas but a BIG thanks to Brian for his hard work on all of this over the last few months...geez, has it been that long? :)

John

bjk3047

08-05-2003, 02:32 PM

In light of the new questions in the BW Q&A, I think this thread should be unearthed (and perhaps...*gasp* finished). I have been working on the remaining people on the tree in little spurts. Billy's almost done, and then it's just Rick and Bekka to go. Then titling, acknowledgements, and submission to Marty :).

As for the BW answer, which if any vocalalists from Ivory Hudson & Co. were in the Seven Souls? Is that another question to be asked?

-Brian

Merf

08-05-2003, 02:52 PM

Brian,

I just went through this whole thread-- you did an amazing job on the family tree! This is so great.... wow.....

wetcamelfood

08-05-2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by bjk3047
In light of the new questions in the BW Q&A, I think this thread should be unearthed (and perhaps...*gasp* finished). I have been working on the remaining people on the tree in little spurts. Billy's almost done, and then it's just Rick and Bekka to go. Then titling, acknowledgements, and submission to Marty :).

As for the BW answer, which if any vocalalists from Ivory Hudson & Co. were in the Seven Souls? Is that another question to be asked?

-Brian

Good point, I submitted the Ivory Hudson question so we'll see what he says.

I've also asked when IH&TH "became" the Seven Souls because from the way I read his reply, it looks like he was not actually in IH&TH, he's just saying that's what the band started out as before he came in and then when they changed their name to the Seven Souls is when I guess his pre Mac "branch" would start and IH&TH wouldn't even be in our tree at all because he wasn't there when they were called IH&TH and we only want the tree to include bands where the 16 Mac members were in right so we kind of need the date of when they changed their name anyways to be able to put in a correct start date for the Seven Souls. So hopefully he'll answer that one soon.

I haven't been able to find any solid dates on any of those bands Bekka was involved with mentioned before (or better info on Billy, Rick and everyone else) so I guess after these amendments as you say Brian, that's about as far as we can take it for now. :)

John

wetcamelfood

08-05-2003, 05:29 PM

Oops, one more thing, I noticed in the family tree inside the FM "Show biz blues" CD booklet that they have Jeremy's pre Mac band The Levi Set going from Nov '66 to June '67 consisting of JS (gtr/voc), Ian Charles (drums) & John Charles (bass).

I think these names were submitted earlier in this thread but I don't think we knew which Charles played what and the dates so there it is.

If you prefer scans then let me know and I'll try to get them posted here on Thursday (unless you have this CD already?) It takes both sides of the centerfold though so I'd have to scan it here in a few pieces if needed. So let me know. :)

John

bjk3047

08-06-2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by wetcamelfood
Good point, I submitted the Ivory Hudson question so we'll see what he says.

I've also asked when IH&TH "became" the Seven Souls because from the way I read his reply, it looks like he was not actually in IH&TH, he's just saying that's what the band started out as before he came in and then when they changed their name to the Seven Souls is when I guess his pre Mac "branch" would start and IH&TH wouldn't even be in our tree at all because he wasn't there when they were called IH&TH and we only want the tree to include bands where the 16 Mac members were in right so we kind of need the date of when they changed their name anyways to be able to put in a correct start date for the Seven Souls. So hopefully he'll answer that one soon.

I haven't been able to find any solid dates on any of those bands Bekka was involved with mentioned before (or better info on Billy, Rick and everyone else) so I guess after these amendments as you say Brian, that's about as far as we can take it for now. :)

John

Right, I did notice that IH&TH did not involve BW, but presumably several of the singers transitioned to the Seven Souls.
I understand the lack of horribly concrete information, but I'm just going on a best guess where we need it on Billy and Rick, and I'm fairly confident that I can get some info on Bekka, so we'll just go with what we have.

Merf: Thank you for the kind words! But I must accept on behalf of the 'team'. It's been a real group effort and I wouldn't be able to put any of it together without the other 6-8 people (especially John!) who really made this possible...that sounded wayyy too much like an acceptance speech...

Edit: Re Levi Set: I take your word for it! :) That's in there now.
-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-06-2003, 07:38 PM

Brian, just notices 2 more quick things in this "Show biz blues" CD booklet tree:

They have Boilerhouse starting in Nov. '67 and...

Christine's pre Chicken Shack band we currently have listed as Shades of Blue and it's actually SOUNDS of Blue. It has been listed both ways in a few places over the years but I personally find Sounds of Blue more likely (for reasons I won't bore you with here) and I think the tree that Johnny Stew had posted early on in this thread from the "Save me" CD single CD booklet also lists Sounds of blue with the more specific dates that we already have on our tree (as for some reason, Frame only has the years for start and end of Sounds... in the attachment here) so if you could change these things as well then I'll be done on this project. :)

John

bjk3047

08-07-2003, 08:52 PM

I fixed the Levi Set, Boilerhouse, Seven Souls, and Sounds of Blue entries. I also added the Billy entries we could best put together. Proofread if you'd like to :) :

http://www.geocities.com/bri3047/familytree.html

Rick and Bekka to go...

-Brian

wetcamelfood

08-08-2003, 08:56 PM

Looks good to me Brian. :)

John

Johnny Stew

08-09-2003, 01:50 AM

Terrific work, Brian!!! :D

I have to say though, that I still think we need to do something about "Fleetwood Mac #12."
Which, in my opinion should include Christine with some kind of "studio only" notation.
I also think that #12 should *not* include Steve Thoma, as he was never an official member of the band... only a touring one... and listing him could be misleading.

Also, perhaps lineup #13 should go up to February 1998, instead of December 1997, as Christine was still a part of the band for the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame, Brit Awards, and Grammy Awards performances.

Though to be an absolute stickler, Christine's departure wasn't necessarily "official" until the current four played at the going-away party for Bill Clinton, at the White House on January 6th, 2001... thus deciding that they could go on without Christine.

Just suggestions. :)

Johnny Stew

08-09-2003, 02:28 AM

Hmm, while I'm thinking about it... I don't believe I ever submitted that condensed version of Stevie's touring bands that you had requested, Brian.
Sorry about that!

I have to admit that limiting it to six people, per tour, including Stevie, was rather tough... especially since I felt the need to keep Sharon, Lori, Elisecia Wright, Lynn Mabry, and Mindy Stein, because they've also toured with Fleetwood Mac.

Brian and John... if you both wouldn't mind looking it over and letting me know what you think. If you feel that including Sharon & Lori for every tour is over-kill, I can swap them out here and there, for some of the other band members.

Anyway, here's what I had come up with....

____________________________________________________________
The White Winged Dove Tour, Nov. 28th, 1981 - Dec. 13th, 1981

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Roy Bittan ~ piano
Benmont Tench ~ keyboards & synthesizer
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals
____________________________________________________________
The Wild Heart Tour, June 21st, 1983 - Nov. 24th, 1983

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Roy Bittan ~ piano
Benmont Tench ~ keyboards & synthesizer
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Rock A Little Tour, April 11th, 1986 - October 6th, 1986

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Waddy Wachtel ~ guitar
Robert Martin ~ keyboards & horns
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry ~ backing vocals
Elisecia Wright ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
The Other Side Of The Mirror Tour, Aug. 16th, 1989 - Nov. 27th, 1989

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Carlos Rios ~ guitar
Russ Kunkel ~ drums
Peter Michael ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lori Perry-Nicks ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Whole Lotta Trouble Tour, July 9th, 1991 - Aug. 18th, 1991

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Les Dudek ~ lead guitar
Mark Andes ~ bass
Scott Crago ~ drums
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Lynn Mabry ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Street Angel Tour, July 22nd, 1994 - Sept. 18th, 1994

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Rick Vito ~ lead guitar
Dan Garfield ~ keyboards
Russ Kunkel ~ drums
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Enchanted Tour, May 27th, 1998 - August 8th, 1998

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Frank Simes ~ lead guitar
Brett Tuggle ~ keyboards
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Millennium Concerts, Dec. 28th, 1999 - Jan. 9th, 2000

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Frank Simes ~ lead guitar
Kevin Stoller ~ keyboards
Daniel de los Reyes ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals

____________________________________________________________
Trouble In Shangri-La Tour, July 6th, 2001 - Oct. 10th, 2001

Stevie Nicks ~ vocals
Waddy Wachtel ~ lead guitar
Brett Tuggle ~ keyboards
Lenny Castro ~ percussion
Sharon Celani ~ backing vocals
Mindy Stein ~ backing vocals
Sheryl Crow ~ guitar/vocals (***occasional appearances)

wetcamelfood

08-09-2003, 08:50 AM

Well, what you have down there Johnny Stew looks great to me but, and it's JMHO that if we have to stick to "maximum of 6" then I personally think it's more important to have the "core band" members than Sharon & Lori etc. (as I had noticed, particularly on the earlier tours, that drums and/or bass (possibly keys too) were axed in favor of Sharon and Lori and to those not familiar with FM's history may think, if left this way, that Stevie was doing some kind of acoustic type tour (which of course was not the case).

Now, I know, this is where the Sharon & Lori/Bekka factor comes in to play so since I've simply run in to a brick wall on Bekka's stuff, I'd have no problem leaving her out (on the stuff I couldn't get more info on) in which case that would make it "politically easier" to take out Sharon & Lori and replace their vacanct spots with the drums, bass, keys etc. people that were taken out to make room for Sharon/Lori. So how's this idea? Brian, what do you think? I'll go with whatever but there's my 2 cents anyways. :)

John

bjk3047

08-09-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Terrific work, Brian!!! :D

I have to say though, that I still think we need to do something about "Fleetwood Mac #12."
Which, in my opinion should include Christine with some kind of "studio only" notation.
I also think that #12 should *not* include Steve Thoma, as he was never an official member of the band... only a touring one... and listing him could be misleading.

Also, perhaps lineup #13 should go up to February 1998, instead of December 1997, as Christine was still a part of the band for the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame, Brit Awards, and Grammy Awards performances.

Though to be an absolute stickler, Christine's departure wasn't necessarily "official" until the current four played at the going-away party for Bill Clinton, at the White House on January 6th, 2001... thus deciding that they could go on without Christine.

Just suggestions. :)

If you're looking at the late additions near the end of the page, then yes, Steve Thoma is there, but we've since changed our minds on that one. As a general rule, you can check the big tree for the most up to date info.

Point taken on FM #13, so we can go Mar '97 to Dec '00, right? I bet a lot of money they called her up for the White House gig and she declined.

In terms of the 'core 6', I'd tend to agree that the backup singers are slightly less important than the main musicians. I'd stick with a general rule of Stevie, drums, bass, lead guitar, keyboards, and take your pick on the last, maybe another guitar. And, yes, I did break my own guideline with the Seven Souls, but it would've looked quite odd to have a band by that name with less than seven people in it.

One quick note: Stevie's solo endeavors, as well as everyone else's, and post-Mac stuff, would logistically have to go onto another tree - the Part 2 of this whole project. So I think for now it would be a good idea to hold off on any post or during FM stuff, until the part 1 is done and hopefully done something with. Ahem, Marty? :)

I checked Bekka's official bio, and really all she did before FM was MF's Zoo, so that certainly makes things easy for her. I'll finish that up today and maybe do a little of Rick.

-Brian