Most underrated FM (or related) song?

[wetcamelfood]

This may have been covered already but I did a search on old threads and couldn't find a thread on it so I thought I'd toss up the idea here and now...

What would you guys say is the most UNDERRATED Mac (or FM related, if you prefer) song? You know, a song that never really got the recognition it deserved at the time or, if you think a song that was already big that you think should've been an even BIGGER hit than it was is cool too! :) Whatever you think, I just thought this might be a good one to put some thought in to and see what everyone has to say. Off the top of my head, I would say something like "Remember me" (from the "Penguin" album). I suppose any of the songs from that period could easily qualify as I keep thinking of how when Mac mania was taking over the world in the "Rumours" days, Warners could've made so much more money (if they really wanted to which we know they do/did want to!) they could've re-released many of the pre-75 songs as singles in the late 70's especially the Christine ones (as those in particular would've had that "familiar sound" to the new (at the time) fans (like me!) that were getting into the Mac at the time especially since Christine had many of the hit singles from "Rumours" & "Fleetwood Mac" (in the US anyways, going by Billboard's listings that is). They really blew it on that one!

Anyways, that's my thoughts and I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts soon. :)

John

[estranged4life]

are "Isn't It Midnight" and "Over And Over"...Seemed Christine's songs didnt get the recognition they deserved and these 2 songs should've been more recognized. The alternate version of "Isn't It Midnight" from the boxed set just sounds awesome, Even more so than the album version...Brian

[Hawkeye]

If by under rated you mean any song that should've been a hit but wasn't the list would be WAY to long. So I'm only going to talk about released singles. Rhiannon which is THE stevie song should've been in the top 10. So should've the THE OTHER stevie song, Edge of 17. And on the other end Talk to me should not have reached #4. Another song that shocks me is Sidters of the Moon. My good 86. And ever worse is Fireflies. That song should've been at least in the top 20. It's FANTASTC. All Christine songs did very well. And although it reached #10 I think Go Your Own Way deserved to be higher. I mean a song that historic and monumental should've been in the top 5 AT LEAST.

[wondergirl9847]

Fleetwood Mac should have a CRAPLOAD of hit or #1 songs, but then again, we are biased being FM fans first and foremost. Here's my list of songs that should have been AT LEAST in the top 10!!

1. GYOW (I mean, COME ON, the chorus is catchy and the guitar is greatness!! Should have been a #1 hit!!!!)

2. Rhiannon should also have been a #1, it's similar to Dreams!!

3. Isn't It Midnight (I agree with Brian on this one, it's got great guitar and Lindsey's breathy "face of a pretty girl" is GREAT!!)

4. Brown Eyes (THE sexiest song of FM's career, IMO, would have sounded GREAT on the radio!!!)

5. The Chain (Another #1 hit that got screwed!!!)

6. All of Stevie's Tusk tunes are GREATNESS!!

7. Tango in the Night (Starts off soothing and then....BAM, hits you right between the eyes!! Such an awesome song!!)

8. Second Hand News (Who doesn't love the bam-bam's? :D )

9. Can't Go Back (Not many people like this one, but I love it, and it's one of Lindsey's better Mirage tunes!!)

10. Little Lies (Should have been another #1!!!!!)

[estranged4life]

how I forgot to add "Brown Eyes", That song does have a sexiness groove to it...Good call wondergirl9847...Brian

[Hawkeye]

EXA Christy. Do you read my #1 hits thread. Come on if elvis can have a #1 hit when he's dead why couldn't Go Your own way and rhiannon get to #1. And the chain and little lies too.

[wondergirl9847]

Yeppers, I saw that thread!! Mariah Carey deserves all of her #1 hits because (even with all her personal problems and stuff)...GIRL CAN SANG!!! Her debut album is one of the greatest of all time, IMO. I like Mariah and Whitney too, just wish those two would eat a sandwich, stop doing drugs and get REAL MEN in their lives!!!!!!!!! GEEZ LADIES, grow up!!

But, to answer you, yes, I agree, FM should have had TONS more hits and so should LINDSEY, especially from OOTC, that is CHOCK FULL OF HITS!!!!! It's so frustrating when you love and adore a band and they get crapped on. :mad:

[Hawkeye]

OOTC sho've had more hits but that's fantasy land. I'm with you and so is eveeryone on this board. Countdow or This is the Time or Wrong should all be #1 hits. But that just can't happen. What i'm talking about are all the songs that Everyone knows and loves. GYOW and Rhoiannon, EO!7, Don't Stop. They have #1 written on em but can't get there.

[Cristian]

My God, this was MEANT to be a single, it's an amazing song, maybe Christine's best tune, and no-one (well, except the people that actually have the Tusk album/CD) knows about its existance. It's my favorite Fleetwood Mac song and it surely deserved more airplay than what it got.

"Just Crazy Love" comes to mind. Another "meant to be" single that never was... maybe it could've helped to increase the sales of the album (I don't quite remember - was it Mystery To Me?)... "Sisters Of The Moon", "Fireflies", "Think About Me" and "Love In Store" surely deserved more important chart places.

"Isn't It Midnight", yes, another underrated tune.


Song of the moment - Sara

[stefan]

I have always regarded Christines songs on Tusk as completely boring. (except of "think about me") Somehow they didn`t seem to fit into the new and strange (great) concept of the album. But there are other ones I like. As somebody else mentioned above some of her songs from "Mystery to me" were forgotten later on. I really would rather have appreciated to listen to some of these ones on a live show or record instead of listening to f.ex."songbird" once again...

By the way- I think that "mystery..." is a great album, especially the Bob Welsh tunes, f.e. "hypnotized", "Miles away" and "Forever" provide a great atmosphere. I liked LB`s live- version of "Hypnotized". It would have been fine, to listen to more of this material adapted by LB or even doing Christine some of her older material on the shows. I also like "Isn`t it midnight" (but I don't like "Mystified" and "Over and over"- really bad in my opinion)

Concerning the no.1 thing... I don`t believe that any of the LB or FM songs coming up, will ever get there. It's just the Britney Spears/ Backstreet Boys exchangeable and superficial Marionette No 1 era. Doesn't matter if you play an instrument or write your own tunes. Anyone there, who believes in 20 years there are Britney oder Christina Aguilera Message boards on the internet? Hardly. Nobody will remember. So this no. 1 thing doesn`t really mean a lot.
CU, Stefan

[tommer]

i think the fact that Sara, a song which has NO actual chorus managed to become a chart hit is an unprecedented phenomenon.

[Johnny Stew]

While time has proved very kind to it ("time cast a spell on you, that you won't forget me...."), I've always felt that "Silver Springs" would have topped the charts, and probably even won a Grammy, had it been included on Rumours and released as a single.


As far as underrated tunes, Christine's "Nights In Estoril," from Time, is one of the best songs of her career... yet many Mac fans have never even heard it.
It's worth picking up a copy of that album, folks, even if it's just for Christine's songs and nothing more. (Though I think if you give the rest of the album a chance, you'll be pleasantly surprised.)



Johnny Stew

[jwd]

Good call on Time Johnny Stew...for Christine's songs. I especially like "Sooner Or Later"...great song!!

In general I think the most underrated Mac member is Christine. This woman has written a bunch of catchy, innovative, and moving songs.

Homeward Bound
Spare Me A Little
Did You Ever Love Me
Just Crazy Love
Why
Prove Your Love
Oh Daddy
Brown Eyes......one of my favorite FM songs of all time.....it is very sexy! :nod:
Isn't It Midnight....oh yeah, it DOES rock!

Not to mention the songs on her solo lp in 1984

Ask Anybody
I'm The One
The Smile I Live For


YOU WILL BE MISSED


Joe

[annaweasel27]

The song that comes to my mind that should have had more recognition is The Chain. I really like that song, and i would have figured that it would have gotten more play on the radio and things like that.
§Mal§

[larg]

My picks are:

Brown Eyes
Hypnotized
Blue Letter
Angel

Also, I agree that Brown Eyes IS very sexy sounding... I just gave it another listen, and it really stood out as a sexy song to me... its awesome! :D

Adam R.

[The Tower]

FM:

Only Over You
Crystal
The Second Time
Hard Feelings
Welcome to the Room... Sara
Over and Over
Save Me a Place
Isn't It Midnight
Honey Hi

STEVIE:

Juliet
Gate and Garden
The Highwayman
Jane
Races Are Run
Love Is Like a River
I Miss You

ALL of "Out the Cradle" by Lindsey

[sisterofthemoon]

Straight Back. It should've been a single.

[Sorcerer386]

Well, there's one that strikes me most because of it's energy, and yet it never got any attention, and that's Gold and Braid. The song is just packed with energy, and I feel if it were given the attention it deserves, it would have hit it big. There are many others I feel this way about, but I just think that live version from the 1981 In Concert tape is just great -- it's Stevie summed up in one song. She goes crazy on the tambourine, she belts, she bounces and dances around...this performance had it all.

I noticed you mentioned your shock of Sara being a chart hit Tommer because it doesn't have a chorus. Lyrically, it doesn't have a chorus, but if you listen, the music does loop into verse and chorus. "Drowning in the sea of love..." is the same music as "Said Sara, you're the poet in my heart..." I am admittedly surprised it is one of Stevie's highest chart hits though. I could picture it in the top 20, but when I saw it was #7, I was pretty surprised.

[macfan 57]

My picks for most underrated songs would be many of Christine's songs from the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood Mac. There are some real gems on these 5 CDs that hardly anyone has heard. My picks would be:

Spare Me A Little
Did You Ever Love Me
Remember Me
Why
Come A Little Bit Closer
Prove Your Love

I also agree about Brown Eyes being underrated from the Buckingham/Nicks era of Fleetwood Mac.

[itsmeangie]

i think christine was underrated as a member of the band.
i love lindsey and stevie and couldn't pick a favorite between the three of them but it seems to me that the whole rock and roll soap opera aspect of their relationship (stevie and lindsey's) tends to overshadow the wonderful music chris was putting out.

*angie

[Sorcerer386]

Sorry, but I don't agree with Christine being underrated at all. Yeah, some of her other songs should have been singles, and Stevie took a lot of the spotlight, but Chris had the majority of singles released and the majority of songs on Greatest Hits. Therefore, how could she be underrated? She's certainly not OVERrated, but with her having the most hits, I can't really say she's underrated. I honestly can't say any of the three songwriters are underrated...if there was one, it'd be Lindsey because he did a lot of the producing and "put the magic into Stevie's songs" and everything. I'm not personally a huge fan of Lindsey's songs, but many who are I think would say he's definitely the most underrated. He didn't have too many singles at all, and even less hits. Just my humble opinion and thoughts. :wavey:

[itsmeangie]

you're right. lindsey didn't get the recognition he deserved for everything he contributed to the mac.
i guess i just meant that so many of the fans are wrapped up in the stevie-lindsey drama that they don't give christine's music nearly as much attention.
ah well. a fleetwood mac fan (for any reason) is better than no fleetwood mac fan at all.

*angie

[Robert]

Originially posted by Tommer" i think the fact that Sara, a song which has NO actual chorus managed to become a chart hit is an unprecedented phenomenon."

Considering the fact that this was the follow up single to "Tusk' an even more unconventional song that mangaged to hit the top ten here and in Britain ,i'm not sure that it is all that an unprecedented a phenomenon.

[Joseph Corkill]

My picks are:
Warm Ways - I feel like I am floating with the tide when I here this.

You'll Never Make Me Cry - It is so ironic.

Save Me A Place - I overlooked it for so many years.


arnold

[Nicks Fan]

I always thought Affairs of The Heart was a good tune from Stevie nicks. Never did understand why her contributions to the album Behind The Mask were ignored. Silver Springs and Seven Wonders are tow of Stevies best songs with Fleetwood Mac. I never understand why they only ever had one # 1 single? I mean come on they have had so many worthy hits that should have topped the charts ( Sara , Little Lies, Gold Dust Woman, Over My Head, Second Hand News, Gypsy, Skies The Limit, Go Your Own Way, Rhiannon, Landslide, Songbird, The Chain)

[The Tower]

Originally posted by Nicks Fan
I always thought Affairs of The Heart was a good tune from Stevie nicks. Never did understand why her contributions to the album Behind The Mask were ignored. Silver Springs and Seven Wonders are tow of Stevies best songs with Fleetwood Mac. I never understand why they only ever had one # 1 single? I mean come on they have had so many worthy hits that should have topped the charts ( Sara , Little Lies, Gold Dust Woman, Over My Head, Second Hand News, Gypsy, Skies The Limit, Go Your Own Way, Rhiannon, Landslide, Songbird, The Chain)

With regard to "Affairs of the Heart"- DITTO!!! I always liked that song, although I find it interesting that she ripped off Bob Dylan, who previously ripped off Lord Byron.

FM's singles problem is primarily a matter of timing. Before SoundScan, singles were their own entity and were very powerful in terms of sales and influence. FM is/was an AOR band, so their product was promoted primarily as an album. Singles in the 70's and early 80's were from people like Debby Boone and Andy Gibb. Just like FM, groups like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd had monster albums, but little in terms of singles.

Now in the SoundScan era, singles are based on either airplay OR sales. Most singles sales are from dance/club related artists. Most singles airplay is dominated by corporate control (Clear Channel, etc.).

Soooo, FM was shafted on the singles front for their entire career. Which is no biggie because they ARE an album based band, anyway. Who on earth would want to see them in the same pool as Britney Spears and N Sync?!?!?? Not me....

[Robert]

Good point Tower,Fleetwood MAc are an album oriented band and in this mileu they enjoyed stunning success,after all Rumours was the biggest selling rock album ever,it;s singles and album cuts enjoyed more airplay and for a much longer time than many number one singles by pop acts,anyone heard 'Under Cover Angel' a number one hit form the summer of '77 on the radio lately?Or for that matter 3 months after it was number one?

[chiliD]

NicksFan: Never did understand why her contributions to the album Behind The Mask were ignored.

1) Her voice was at it's all-time worst

2) Her songwriting at that point really stunk compared to her earlier works

That point in time, she was really at a low ebb in her personal life as well...the drugs (prescription or street, or both), her health (the Epstein-Barr syndrome, etc)...all were factors...plus, by the late-80s/early 90s, Stevie Nicks & Fleetwood Mac were "unhip dinosaurs"...there were new sounds, new genres of music sprouting up, plus, a whole new demographic of music consumers were coming of age.

"Welcome To The Room...Sara"
"When I See You Again"
"The Second Time"
all of "Other Side Of The Mirror"

Probably her worst

[celestenadia]

I agree that Stevie was at her "lowest" for Tango... However, I beg
to differ for OSOTM & BTM... To me, there are some shining spots on OSOTM...
"Rooms","LWTG","Juliet" and lately "Doing The Best That I Can" has been
sounding pretty heavy... As far as her material from BTM, I agree that it
may not be her strongest material, but it's far from inferior to me. There's
a kind of determined sound to her voice like, "Yes, Lindsey I CAN function without you..."
Like she had something to proove...

[Nicks Fan]

Yes I agree that some of the marerial she produced from 87-94 wasn't all that good. I still think she had some great material. (Rooms on Fire, Seven Wonders, Affairs of The Heart, Blue Denim, Sometimes's It's A Bitch,"Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind, Fire Burning"). I will admit that the two solo albums Street Angel and The Other Side of The Mirror pale in comparison to the her other albums but I wouldn't say they are awful.

[chiliD]

I'm not saying "Street Angel" is awful (although many do)...after the debacle of "OSOTM" ("Rooms On Fire" is great, but the rest of the album IMHO ...stinks...no...SUCKS!) "Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind" was, and still is, my favorite of Stevie's solo works, but how I was disappointed to find out she didn't write it. As she didn't write a FEW of the songs you mentioned. ("Seven Wonders"---Sandy Stewart; "Sometimes It's A Bitch"--Jon Bon Jovi, etc) I wish that "MLWCYM" would've been a Fleetwood Mac song rather than a Stevie solo song.

The thing (I'd prefer the term, "problem") about Stevie as a solo artist is that her material is at the mercy of the producer...and Rupert Hine was NOT a good match for Stevie's material. Had those OSOTM songs been done with Fleetwood Mac or a different producer (ie, Jimmy Iovine or Mike Campbell, or...??), my opinion of them may have drastically been different, but "as presented"...as we're "stuck with", blech!

For example, "Whole Lotta Trouble" was the biggest turd on the album...I can hear SO MUCH potential in it, it's disheartening...had that been recorded bare-bones with the BTM incarnation and "blues-ed" up a bit more, it would've really kicked (would've been a perfect Rick Vito guitar monster tune), but the over-blown horn arrangement (no pun intended...or maybe subconsciously, it was :shrug: ) just ruined it for me...and for some other people, too, as I read here & elsewhere. The whole ALBUM is like that for me, as well...too heavy handed on the production. For me, Stevie sounds her best when her songs are stripped down with a basic band...no strings, no horns, just drums, bass, guitar, & keyboards.

[Sorcerer386]

I also agree in part with the idea that Stevie was not writing her songs on her own much anymore. There are only two songs on OSOTM that have only Stevie's name on it, Juliet and Doing the Best That I Can. Affairs of the Heart was the only Stevie only song on Behind the Mask...Rick Vito cowrote Love Is Dangerous and The Second Time, and I think it was Mike Campbell who cowrote Freedom. But yes, overproduction has much more to do with it. Even though I love OSOTM and Street Angel, I have said before I can like what many would consider a bad song if I like the lyrics or I like the concept behind the song. I hated No Such Think by John Mayer until I knew what it was about, I hated Precious Illusions by Alanis Morrisette until I took in the lyrics. So, I can see why I would like OSOTM and Street Angel while many others wouldn't because I just love Stevie's lyrics and concepts -- like stories. But I never play these albums (or Behind the Mask or Rock a Little) while other people are around because I know that's the best way to turn them OFF of Stevie and Fleetwood Mac. I really only expect the die hard Stevie fans to like those four albums. But I definitely agree that Stevie's songs are best when they are stripped down to the bare essentials...

[chiliD]

Just to digress a bit...

Anyone heard Rick Vito's SOLO version of "Love Is Dangerous" on his "Crazy Cool" album??? Just kicks booty!! Would LOVE to hear THIS arrangement duetted with Stevie.


Ok...back to regular programming :)

One of the things about her works from about "Rock A Little" forward that just irk the crap outta me is that her lyrics don't fit what's going on musically and vice versa. Instrumentally, a section comes to an end but the lyric line keeps going for a couple of beats further and throws the whole FEEL off. I don't recall any of her pre-Rock A Little stuff doing that. Whether it was Lindsey or Jimmy Iovine making her reword those lines to fit the meter of the music or them retiming the music to fit one of her lines seemed to work. After Rock A Little, it just made me think, "what happened to your EARS?? Can't you hear that line not fitting with what's going on musically?" The worst offenders are the songs I mentioned in a previous post in this thread (and add "No Questions Asked" to that list, too). BUT, I notice that on TISL, that doesn't happen as much, if at all. Which is probably one of the reasons that TISL is one of my favorite non-Mac albums of hers. Her lyric lines seem to match what's going on musically...it's a complete sounding song, rather than this arm-wrestling between the vocal & the arrangement.

[Johnny Stew]

The old saying "one man's trash is another man's treasure" is definitely true of music too! *lol*

Many times the reason someone cites for disliking a Stevie tune, is one of the many reasons why *I* like it.

Her voice on "When I See You Again," for example... yes, it's raspy and ravaged... but i love that about it. I think her voice gives that song a depth that someone with a "perfect" voice, could never hope to.
Same thing lyrically with the "what's the matter, baby" parts... I find the imploring nature in the repetition of that line to be very moving and affecting.

The same also goes for that little quirk chili D. mentioned... of the lyrics & instrumentation sometimes not matching up in a textbook sort of way.
I totally get off on the musical tension that little dichotomy creates within her songs.


One thing we *definitely* agree on... those blasted horns in "Whole Lotta Trouble"!!!
I don't hate the song, and the Tom Lord-Alge remix is better than the album version... but I would not have missed those horns.



Johnny Stew

[Sorcerer386]

Now see, with Whole Lotta Trouble, I would miss the horns because Whole Lotta Trouble just reminds me of a big production type number...like a big ballroom type song or lounge act, very Liza Minnelli-ish to me. I love this song live...the studio version was too, I don't know, too polished I think. This is a song to just let loose to and not worry about everything sounding exactly right. Plus, it has so much more energy on stage. I didn't like it too much during Timespace, but it revived nicely for Enchanted, although maybe a little too high for Stevie's voice. I just wish for the life of me I could figure out WHAT she is saying at the end of this song at Radio City Music Hall...she just goes off screaming about something, then you hear, "Whole Lotta Trouble for you...I told you so, I believe I told you so, *something something something* you're so proud." Or something like that. All in all, WLT is just a different song. But again, I wish I knew what it was about. WHAT could BE a "Whole lotta trouble for you"?

[Sorcerer386]

Adam, well, I don't have the capabilities to copy a video, but maybe someone else can get you a copy of the 1998 Radio City Music Hall show. It's very good, sound is a little bit bad, which is why I can't understand what she says near the end of Whole Lotta Trouble. Just to set this up for you, in Whole Lotta Trouble at the end, she's belting out "Whole lotta trouble, whole lotta trouble, whole lotta trouble for you..." right? And then, she switches to a lower note and sings that again, but then on this video, after she does that, she just starts screaming out something that I can't understand. The most I can make out is "Well YOU SAY *** BABY *** WHOLE LOTTA TROUBLE FOR YOU! I told you so, I believe I told you so *** so proud." It's almost, just almost going back to speaking in tongues, except I know she definitely CLEARLY says something, but due to sound quality I can't understand it. SO, if you really want to hear it, check out the Stevie Boots Webring and maybe someone will be nice enough to do a 2 for 1 for you and copy that concert. Another great reason to get this concert is the difference in the set list. I never expected to hear Enchanted, Gold and Braid, Stop Draggin, After the Glitter Fades, Rose Garden, Whole Lotta Trouble, or Twisted live. I didn't expect Garbo or Sleeping Angel either, but I don't care too much for Garbo and she cuts Sleeping Angel short, at least on this show.

[golddustwoman77]

I really think that several of the songs on Rumours were underrated, because most people purchased the entire album and not the individual singles. Therefore, the album as a whole got (and still gets) more attention than the individual songs. :shrug:

If I had to pick their most underrated song, I couldn't pick just one. Here is a short list (not all of the songs I would consider are listed, because I think so many of their songs should be hits! :D). They're not in any particular order: (1) Blue Letter (2) Crystal (3) Second Hand News (4) Songbird (5) I Don't Want to Know (6) Silver Springs. :nod:

:wavey: