Destiny Rules

[BLY]

So Destiny Rules came on today on a random mix. I still love this song. I use to blast this song drivin in my convertible when in came out. The guitar is classic MAC.. the only thing that’s missing is Christine’s vocals……..

[Macfan4life]

Yes! SYW used to be my workout or jogging CD back in the day. Destiny Rules like most of the songs are wildly upbeat. I never understand the hate the album gets on this board. IMHO it's one of Lindsey's finest moments in production. Tusk gets so much love.....its not too long, its purposely cold, its daring, its brilliant. Yet those same descriptions are used to attack SYW. It should be shorter, its too cold, its too daring because I cant sing to Illume and Lindsey's guitar offends me on Come. Wah wah wah.

[Villavic]

The guitar is classic MAC.. ..

I don't hate SYW but I admit it's the album I listen to the least. Christine's absence, Stevie's voice... the songs are good, but none of them struck me as a brilliant track I'd expected from Fleetwood Mac. But maybe those reasons I mentioned makes it harder for me to pay more attention now that some time has passed. I'm going to listen to it again, paying closer attention to those details. Anyway, Christine is a very important missing piece. I think that's why I don't consider the Buckingham Nicks album to be on par with the Mac albums either. Like the BuckVie album, I like it, but I also miss Stevie on it. Of course, I'm referring to a Stevie who didn't exist at that moment, or anymore.

[Macfan4life]

I don't hate SYW but I admit it's the album I listen to the least. Christine's absence, Stevie's voice... the songs are good, but none of them struck me as a brilliant track I'd expected from Fleetwood Mac. But maybe those reasons I mentioned makes it harder for me to pay more attention now that some time has passed. I'm going to listen to it again, paying closer attention to those details. Anyway, Christine is a very important missing piece. I think that's why I don't consider the Buckingham Nicks album to be on par with the Mac albums either. Like the BuckVie album, I like it, but I also miss Stevie on it. Of course, I'm referring to a Stevie who didn't exist at that moment, or anymore.
I never upgraded my BTM cassette from 1990 to CD. Last year I bought a used BTM CD on Ebay. I listened to it back to front (as Stevie would say) for a few days. It was fun to rediscover the album. I like most of it but one thing that stood out to me was how blatant Stevie's layered in was. Its much more noticeable than Tango. But I have always found SYW to be very well produced. The songs are really good and it shows how much work went into the album. Stand out to me. They are not pop tracks like Tango. They are much more intricate and layered compared to their earlier work.
Of course Lindsey was missing for BTM and Chris was missing for SYW. Their collaborations would have made both albums much better. But each left on their own will so we have to accept their wishes at the time.

[Villavic]

Of course Lindsey was missing for BTM and Chris was missing for SYW. Their collaborations would have made both albums much better. But each left on their own will so we have to accept their wishes at the time.

Just curious. SYW vs. BuckVie?

[HomerMcvie]

Just curious. SYW vs. BuckVie?

Holy fukc balls. BuckVie. No contest. It's a sweet album, and the best swan song.

Free at last, free at last. Lawd have mercy, goat free at last!

[BLY]

Just curious. SYW vs. BuckVie?

It would be tie for me. I love both albums and though Christine is only singing back up on two tracks on SYW and Stevie is not on BuckMcVie it’s a tie.

[Macfan4life]

Just curious. SYW vs. BuckVie?
Good question. It's like comparing Mirage to Tusk. One is pure pop greatness and the other dives into very creative territory that like Tusk rubs people the wrong way. Each are great for different reasons. Chris's music always reels me in so I would say Buck/Vie. Every song is a polished gem. Some songs on SYW would never fit on an album like that. On an album can anyone name any song that is so powerful in music than Everybody Finds Out and Come? Maybe Coming Home from Heroes Are Hard To Find? There is such extreme musical instrument playing on SYW that does not exist much on earlier Mac albums. They are playing like they are on speed. Its a musical album which albums like Tango are not. I am quoting Chris in her early praise of BTM when she said "its nice to hear Mick playing drums and John playing again" YES Chris you are right. I love the music to hear that rhythm section humming. That is why I appreciate BTM. We hear Chris play keyboards again and some of them are solos! This is why GYW, The Chain and Oh Daddy are so great. Its the music jam.

[FuzzyPlum]

Say You Will….
It’s too long, it’s too cold, it’s too daring
But love Lindsey’s guitar parts on Come….wild and aggressive

Destiny Rules is pretty good though. That’s the thing….transplant any song onto any album and it’ll sit well, but the albums sum of its parts….meh

[sue]

Holy fukc balls. BuckVie. No contest. It's a sweet album, and the best swan song.

Free at last, free at last. Lawd have mercy, goat free at last!

Oh Crikey…hate to disagree with you….but..
I love Say you will..took me about three years to get into it.
It has a lot of depth, and only a couple on it I don’t like so much.

BuckVie….and I know I’m going to be slaughtered here..I never got.
It’s okay, maybe I didn’t play it enough.
They did need Stevie’s contribution…whatever that was..
She is a very good tambourine player ..you know.

Having said that I rarely play anything of theirs these days.

[HomerMcvie]

Oh Crikey…hate to disagree with you….but..
I love Say you will..took me about three years to get into it.
It has a lot of depth, and only a couple on it I don’t like so much.

BuckVie….and I know I’m going to be slaughtered here..I never got.
It’s okay, maybe I didn’t play it enough.
They did need Stevie’s contribution…whatever that was..
She is a very good tambourine player ..you know.

Having said that I rarely play anything of theirs these days.

But it has the HEART AND SOUL OF FM- Christine! I love pretty much every song(Game of Pretend would be at the bottom of my list). For me, it's Mirage, part 2. Just a sweet pop album. It's the antithesis of SYW, because it's a happy, loving album.

I'm glad the Old Goat wasn't on it, because there's no nasal droning. AND, I ended up front row in front of Christine on their Nashville stop. I'd have never been able to do that if the Old Goat was in the band.

So in Feb I finally sold my downtown condo, and am back in a house, and finally have a stereo up and running again. Rumours is in the #1 cd spot, and Tusk is in #2. After 4 years without a stereo, I figured I needed to reconnect with what "brung me"(as the country stars would say).

[UnwindedDreams]

So Destiny Rules came on today on a random mix. I still love this song. I use to blast this song drivin in my convertible when in came out. The guitar is classic MAC.. the only thing that’s missing is Christine’s vocals……..Epic song. I still don't know why Silver Girl gets hate! The lyrics aren't terrible!

[Villavic]

I am an absolute fan of the five lineup, so in both cases there's an important missing piece to me. That's why both albums don't quite measure up to the others, in my personal list. Anyway if Christine and Stevie had participated, respectively, it's very likely they wouldn't have done so with the expected enthusiasm, for their own reasons.

In an ideal universe, I would have liked Christine to have wanted to be in SYW and been happy about it. Likewise, Stevie in BuckVie, but with her voice and songwriting talent in better shape. Dreaming is free.

Anyway if I had to choose, I'd go for BuckVie.

[FuzzyPlum]

What are people’s favourite…SN/CM, SN/LB, LB/CM?
Behind the Mask
Say You Will
BuckVie

I’d have to go with BuckVie, Say You Will, Behind the Mask

No contest for me

[Penguin Emeritus]

I am an absolute fan of the five lineup, so in both cases there's an important missing piece to me. That's why both albums don't quite measure up to the others, in my personal list. Anyway if Christine and Stevie had participated, respectively, it's very likely they wouldn't have done so with the expected enthusiasm, for their own reasons.

In an ideal universe, I would have liked Christine to have wanted to be in SYW and been happy about it. Likewise, Stevie in BuckVie, but with her voice and songwriting talent in better shape. Dreaming is free.

Anyway if I had to choose, I'd go for BuckVie.

I thought she DID want to be a part of the project but absolutely didn't want to tour.. so her participation was discouraged. That's basically what john said when he wasked in his q&a about this... Something about how she "maybe, might be , could be" part of the album if she didn't have to go on the road..and I guess they didn't see the point of her being involved if she couldn't promote the project.

Which is kind of sad, I think they should have let her do whatever she was comfortable with of she expressed a desire to do so. It made no sense to me because john ALSO said he thought her In the Meantime album had some good stuff on there but said it could have been better if he and mick and lindsey could have added to it. So.. why didn't he push for her to be more involved in Say You Will??! 😞

--Lis

[UnwindedDreams]

I thought she DID want to be a part of the project but absolutely didn't want to tour.. so her participation was discouraged. That's basically what john said when he wasked in his q&a about this... Something about how she "maybe, might be , could be" part of the album if she didn't have to go on the road..and I guess they didn't see the point of her being involved if she couldn't promote the project.

Which is kind of sad, I think they should have let her do whatever she was comfortable with of she expressed a desire to do so. It made no sense to me because john ALSO said he thought her In the Meantime album had some good stuff on there but said it could have been better if he and mick and lindsey could have added to it. So.. why didn't he push for her to be more involved in Say You Will??! 😞

--Lis
What I’ve heard on The Ledge is that Lindsey said he didn’t want Christine to contribute to SYW (even though he used her older background vocals on two of his songs). I don’t know why Mick, John, and Stevie didn’t push or their management and Reprise or whoever the record company was. Were they afraid Lindsey would leave the band again?

Are there arena/amphitheatre “classic” bands that have one of their vocalists contribute to an album but not tour/play the new stuff live? I’m thinking Foreigner because Mick Jones doesn’t play live with his band but I don’t know if they’ve made new music in the last couple of years.

[BLY]

[QUOTE=UnwindedDreams;1305521]What I’ve heard on The Ledge is that Lindsey said he didn’t want Christine to contribute to SYW (even though he used her older background vocals on two of his songs). I don’t know why Mick, John, and Stevie didn’t push or their management and Reprise or whoever the record company was. Were they afraid Lindsey would leave the band?


I remember Lindsey making a comment about if Christine had a “Single” it couldn’t be played live on tour or something to that effect.

[Penguin Emeritus]

What I’ve heard on The Ledge is that Lindsey said he didn’t want Christine to contribute to SYW (even though he used her older background vocals on two of his songs). I don’t know why Mick, John, and Stevie didn’t push or their management and Reprise or whoever the record company was. Were they afraid Lindsey would leave the band again?

Are there arena/amphitheatre “classic” bands that have one of their vocalists contribute to an album but not tour/play the new stuff live? I’m thinking Foreigner because Mick Jones doesn’t play live with his band but I don’t know if they’ve made new music in the last couple of years.

Yeah I get the feeling they were always kind of catering to LB or Stevie....and after Chris left, I suppose those 2 were the ones left really running the show.

--Lis

[sue]

But it has the HEART AND SOUL OF FM- Christine! I love pretty much every song(Game of Pretend would be at the bottom of my list). For me, it's Mirage, part 2. Just a sweet pop album. It's the antithesis of SYW, because it's a happy, loving album.

I'm glad the Old Goat wasn't on it, because there's no nasal droning. AND, I ended up front row in front of Christine on their Nashville stop. I'd have never been able to do that if the Old Goat was in the band.

So in Feb I finally sold my downtown condo, and am back in a house, and finally have a stereo up and running again. Rumours is in the #1 cd spot, and Tusk is in #2. After 4 years without a stereo, I figured I needed to reconnect with what "brung me"(as the country stars would say).

Christine is pretty much the Heart and Soul of FM…full stop
And me being a fellow Brummie, love her.
But I just don’t get this Album…
(Life would be boring if we all liked the same stuff..)

[Villavic]

I thought she DID want to be a part of the project but absolutely didn't want to tour.. so her participation was discouraged. That's basically what john said when he wasked in his q&a about this... Something about how she "maybe, might be , could be" part of the album if she didn't have to go on the road..and I guess they didn't see the point of her being involved if she couldn't promote the project.

Which is kind of sad, I think they should have let her do whatever she was comfortable with of she expressed a desire to do so. It made no sense to me because john ALSO said he thought her In the Meantime album had some good stuff on there but said it could have been better if he and mick and lindsey could have added to it. So.. why didn't he push for her to be more involved in Say You Will??! 😞

--Lis

Yes, now I remember that. I am recalling also that what I understood that year was that she not only wanted to tour, but she didn't even want to leave England to record in USA; I don't remember her saying that, or if it was some journalist's conclusion, but in any case, I wondered at that time (and wished) if it would have been possible for the band to travel to UK to record there, like when they went to France.

Yes, I know it would have sounded selfish of Christine, but as a fan, I would have wanted SYW to have the Rumours lineup, regardless of whether she went on tour or not. After all, something similar happened with Tango, although of course for more dramatic and bitter reasons. And I loved the Tango album anyway, which it was a great success.

It would be an interesting poll to ask ourselves if we prefer the SYW we got, or an album with Christine even if she didn't tour. I already answered that.

[Macfan4life]

Of course we all wanted Chris on SYW. But when a band records an album they want to go out on the road to promote it. Armchair quarterbacks today can flame Lindsey for not wanting Christine in the studio if she was not going to promote the album but that is the way it always worked. Dave Mason was equally frustrated they spent all this time recording Time and then Warner never promoted the album and Chris was not going to tour even though she was on the album and was a major draw. It leaves many musicians to say why bother. We cannot always chime in today without understanding the facts on the ground at the time these scenarios presented themselves. YES BTM was missing Lindsey. YES SYW was missing Chris. Both these albums needed them. IMHO its a fruitless proposition to debate this today. The glass half full is we still got music. The band "played on" without Lindsey for a time and then without Chris. The title SAY YOU WILL says it all begging Christine to stay. You can also add Buck/Vie to this equation. The band played on without Stevie on the album. Can you imagine if Chris or Mick said I don't think we should record an album without her. Wrong, no? Its the same situation when both Lindsey or Chris removed themselves from the band. We should all be thankful they continued in their craft. You can play shoulda coulda all day.

[anusha]

It seems like the other four weren't that keen to leave LA to record the album. Lindsey would have had young children, and probably he wanted the comfort of recording locally. Also, there are tax issues raised by recording in England, so it would have been tricky -- that's why Mirage was recorded in France to begin with.

Now knowing that The Dance was probably a brief respite in what has been nearly 50 years of dysfunction, I don't know that there would be a resolution that would have worked for all of them, and specifically Stevie/Lindsey accommodating others. I did enjoy some of the two part harmonies on SYW, though, just as I did on Buckingham McVie. I think they were all of the mindset at some time or another that either a person is all in or they're out (LB/CM made pointed remarks about SN's absences over the years, the 1987 rift was about LB not touring, etc. etc.)

But, the thing I know for sure is that there is no sequence of events with these five people that doesn't end in some sort of dysfunction. :shrug: