Lindsey calls Christine and Stevie solo concerts lounge acts (1984)

[Macfan4life]

I was reading about Christine's solo tour and how she was introduced to her future husband Eddy by Todd Sharpe while making her solo album. Todd supposedly ran into Eddy at some bar. Because the Mac's work was delayed and nowhere in sight Chris decided to take her show on the road. It stated that Lindsey attended one of her solo concerts in the audience and called her concert a "lounge act." He said she relied too much on Fleetwood Mac material. Being that Chris performed 9 songs from her solo album plus an unreleased song (10 solo songs) from it made me scratch my head. Chris also performed 2 vintage Mac songs. Of course she is going to throw in her Mac signature songs.
I was wondering where the quote came from and it comes from a 1984 Rolling Stone article. He really slams Mick in the article too. He called the music Mick was playing in his studio embarrassing and had a flashback to all the downsides of being in Fleetwood Mac when Mick came over to his house and stayed up till 5 am. Total precursor what was going to happen in 3 years.

Here is the article. I had not ever heard this before.

https://www.fleetwoodmac-uk.com/articles/FMart54.htm

[SteveMacD]

Being that Chris performed 9 songs from her solo album plus an unreleased song (10 solo songs) from it made me scratch my head. Chris also performed 2 vintage Mac songs. Of course she is going to throw in her Mac signature songs.
And, she had Todd play “Guitar Bug” (which ended up on a Billy Burnette album) so she could adjust her makeup.

For all his lounge act talk, Lindsey was the first one to play “The Chain” as a solo artist.

[Macfan4life]

And, she had Todd play “Guitar Bug” (which ended up on a Billy Burnette album) so she could adjust her makeup.

For all his lounge act talk, Lindsey was the first one to play “The Chain” as a solo artist.
He came off angry in that interview. It was sort of the canary in the coal mine of what was to happen in 3 years. Stevie said that during Tusk Lindsey cut his hair and became angry. He came across angry in the 1982 Cream magazine article too claiming he would never tour once he turned 40 and bitter claiming radio was not playing his Mirage songs.
When this article came out Go Insane had already been released. I am sure he was disappointed with the sales and no big hits while Stevie was playing arenas. Was he still jealous of Stevie's solo career where she was phoning it in on the Wild Heart tour. I totally see Lindsey going to Chris's concerts especially since he worked on her solo album. But I can't believe he went to a Stevie solo concert coming from someone that would not even listen to Bella Donna but who knows. Maybe he saw her HBO show.
It all brings back memories of the mid 80s when Mac fans were biting their nails wondering if the band would reunite again. These swipes at fellow band members did not help. Stevie was calling herself the "baby sister" and how the Mac never used her full potential. Chris saying her and Stevie are not friends and that she lives in a fantasy world. Lindsey saying Chris and Stevie solo shows are borderline lounge acts. Stevie saying in 1985 that it "depends on how nice everyone is" if she would record with the Mac again. It all brings back the memories of the mid 80s.

[jbrownsjr]

And, she had Todd play “Guitar Bug” (which ended up on a Billy Burnette album) so she could adjust her makeup.

For all his lounge act talk, Lindsey was the first one to play “The Chain” as a solo artist.

Her show was far superior to his. Hers had an arc and a journey. His was all over the place and he also played FMac songs.

Her band's take on "Ask Anybody" is something I listen to weekly. I have no desire to listen to anything of his from his tour back then.

His music is hardly anything "out there" or different. Being weird and having a crazy EQ in your mix doesn't make you a different genre. Sorry LB... There's a reason you sound pretentious. And I don't believe for one second you listened to The Clash at any decent length.

[WalkAThinLine.]

Her show was far superior to his. Hers had an arc and a journey. His was all over the place and he also played FMac songs.

Her band's take on "Ask Anybody" is something I listen to weekly. I have no desire to listen to anything of his from his tour back then.

His music is hardly anything "out there" or different. Being weird and having a crazy EQ in your mix doesn't make you a different genre. Sorry LB... There's a reason you sound pretentious. And I don't believe for one second you listened to The Clash at any decent length.

Christine played a few Fleetwood Mac songs on her 1984 solo tour such as "Say You Love Me" and "Just Crazy Love", but I still largely agree with your point regarding Lindsey's music still being relatively mainstream, albeit with a few signature production quirks. His Out of the Cradle Tour is one of my favorites of his given the spectacle of the large ensemble, the musicianship, and relatively unique setlist that Lindsey really would never emulate on any future tour. The small machine would later become a leaner operation with fewer theatrics and a greater degree of standardization.

[michelej1]

I think Lindsey's first solo tour with the guitar Army was creative and unique. I think it brought some songs to life that were flat on the album, for instance Doing What I Can.

I do not think his criticism of Christine's set was valid, however, but he always has/had something like that to say. I mean, in recent times, when he has been hungry for FM collaborations, he has been complimentary. But back in those days, he was king of flippant remarks and backhanded compliments.

[aleuzzi]

I remember this interview. It came at a time when he was terrifically unhappy and all-over-the-place regarding his feelings about being in the band.

To say that Christine and even Stevie did not "try" hard enough (his words) to offer something new in their shows is rather silly, honestly. Christine co-wrote six of the ten songs on her album, and authored another one by herself. She also teamed with a crack backing band that killed in the live shows that are available on YouTube. That sightly less than half her show drew on HER FM material is natural and expected. Her songs and style express consistency. There isn't a heck of a leap (in terms of style or manner) from "Just Crazy Love" to "Got a Hold on Me." But that's part of the thrill: she is able to draw so many inventive melodies from the strict parameters she sets for herself. Robert Cristgau called this "unimpeachably sensible." I call it sound practice for a person whose creative outlet was tied strongly to her income. She didn't have the luxury to "go insane" on her record--nor would she have had the inclination. "One in a Million" and "Smile I Live For" rank (for me) among her best work.

Nicks' albums by 1985 showed a pattern: call in big-name producers to help her stay commercially on top of her game. This means her solo music is a little less distinctive (in my book) than her 70s FM material--but this is out of necessity. In the band, she could function from a pretty defined, narrow role as the resident mystic. Songs like "Gold Dust Woman" and "Storms" are unique, but you couldn't have a whole album of them. She needed to be relax and extend her style a bit (as did Christine). The results WORKED. And for what it's worth: "Stand Back" is an all-out masterpiece by any standard. A huge hit that sacrifices nothing in the way of originality.

Lindsey's first album is a favorite. I love the LEVITY of it, the screwball sensibility at play. Go Insane lacks any of that and sounds self-important. The title track sounds best when he does it live with an acoustic guitar.

So, in short, Lindsey's rant was bs, but also not bs: he simply didn't want to be commercial anymore. But like any misunderstood man-child he took his frustration out on those nearest and dearest to him. I'm sure Christine did not see the meeting backstage as "inconsequential." And Mick's persistent craziness has always been the perfect foil for Lindsey's self-proclaimed tortured artist.

[jbrownsjr]

I remember this interview. It came at a time when he was terrifically unhappy and all-over-the-place regarding his feelings about being in the band.

To say that Christine and even Stevie did not "try" hard enough (his words) to offer something new in their shows is rather silly, honestly. Christine co-wrote six of the ten songs on her album, and authored another one by herself. She also teamed with a crack backing band that killed in the live shows that are available on YouTube. That sightly less than half her show drew on HER FM material is natural and expected. Her songs and style express consistency. There isn't a heck of a leap (in terms of style or manner) from "Just Crazy Love" to "Got a Hold on Me." But that's part of the thrill: she is able to draw so many inventive melodies from the strict parameters she sets for herself. Robert Cristgau called this "unimpeachably sensible." I call it sound practice for a person whose creative outlet was tied strongly to her income. She didn't have the luxury to "go insane" on her record--nor would she have had the inclination. "One in a Million" and "Smile I Live For" rank (for me) among her best work.

Nicks' albums by 1985 showed a pattern: call in big-name producers to help her stay commercially on top of her game. This means her solo music is a little less distinctive (in my book) than her 70s FM material--but this is out of necessity. In the band, she could function from a pretty defined, narrow role as the resident mystic. Songs like "Gold Dust Woman" and "Storms" are unique, but you couldn't have a whole album of them. She needed to be relax and extend her style a bit (as did Christine). The results WORKED. And for what it's worth: "Stand Back" is an all-out masterpiece by any standard. A huge hit that sacrifices nothing in the way of originality.

Lindsey's first album is a favorite. I love the LEVITY of it, the screwball sensibility at play. Go Insane lacks any of that and sounds self-important. The title track sounds best when he does it live with an acoustic guitar.

So, in short, Lindsey's rant was bs, but also not bs: he simply didn't want to be commercial anymore. But like any misunderstood man-child he took his frustration out on those nearest and dearest to him. I'm sure Christine did not see the meeting backstage as "inconsequential." And Mick's persistent craziness has always been the perfect foil for Lindsey's self-proclaimed tortured artist.


Wow! Lucy lucid! That's how we do it, in LA! His way, or it sucks!


PS: Everything you do, has been done!

So well stated, Tony!

[HomerMcvie]

Wow! Lucy lucid! That's how we do it, in LA! His way, or it sucks!


PS: Everything you do, has been done!

So well stated, Tony!

As much as I love Lindsey, he really is a little bitch(or used to be, any way- now he's a lap dog, which is worse, IMO).

[Villavic]

As much as I love Lindsey, he really is a little bitch(or used to be, any way- now he's a lap dog, which is worse, IMO).

Leadership, leadership, leadership.

Being the "architect" of the Fleetwood Mac sound, as the sticker on the OOTC CD said when I bought it, he was kind of the leader of the band, in that respect.

But throughout my professional career, I'm convinced that a good leader should be what coaches always taught me: he motivates, not imposes. The best way to convince your team is thru motivation. I'm not saying Lindsey was 100% an imposer, and not that the others were 100% victims. But I think the ability to motivate was weak in him.

[Nathan]

He came off angry in that interview. It was sort of the canary in the coal mine of what was to happen in 3 years. Stevie said that during Tusk Lindsey cut his hair and became angry. He came across angry in the 1982 Cream magazine article too claiming he would never tour once he turned 40 and bitter claiming radio was not playing his Mirage songs.
When this article came out Go Insane had already been released. I am sure he was disappointed with the sales and no big hits while Stevie was playing arenas. Was he still jealous of Stevie's solo career where she was phoning it in on the Wild Heart tour. I totally see Lindsey going to Chris's concerts especially since he worked on her solo album. But I can't believe he went to a Stevie solo concert coming from someone that would not even listen to Bella Donna but who knows. Maybe he saw her HBO show.
It all brings back memories of the mid 80s when Mac fans were biting their nails wondering if the band would reunite again. These swipes at fellow band members did not help. Stevie was calling herself the "baby sister" and how the Mac never used her full potential. Chris saying her and Stevie are not friends and that she lives in a fantasy world. Lindsey saying Chris and Stevie solo shows are borderline lounge acts. Stevie saying in 1985 that it "depends on how nice everyone is" if she would record with the Mac again. It all brings back the memories of the mid 80s.

You really think SN was "phoning it in" on the WH tour?

Stars go see other stars' shows all the time. Personally, I find it surprising, though not unbelievable that LB would've gotten a ticket to see see her in '83 at one of the many shows she played in LA that year.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Leadership, leadership, leadership.

Being the "architect" of the Fleetwood Mac sound, as the sticker on the OOTC CD said when I bought it, he was kind of the leader of the band, in that respect.

But throughout my professional career, I'm convinced that a good leader should be what coaches always taught me: he motivates, not imposes. The best way to convince your team is thru motivation. I'm not saying Lindsey was 100% an imposer, and not that the others were 100% victims. But I think the ability to motivate was weak in him.

i think my CD had a sticker that said that too ! ahh, the old days of buying CDs in Sam Goody...

anyway that's true what you said about Lb probably not being a good motivator...he seemed a little too intense and brittle about everything, and perhaps a bit arrogant. i have an old interview from around 88 w john, chris (and maybe Rick vito?)-- where chris was sort of explaining how LB left because he wasn't happy etc and things w the new members were going well... and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.' i'm assuming he was talking about LB, who must have been coming across as an arrogant ass. (although to be fair he was working the hardest on TITN, along w chris, so it makes sense that he may have been frustrated at everyone else slacking off and being weighed down by their own issues and addictions.)

but anyway, i think there were times when he was not a particularly good motivator! :rolleyes:

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

Wow! Lucy lucid! That's how we do it, in LA! His way, or it sucks!


PS: Everything you do, has been done!

So well stated, Tony!

Lucy Lucid is my name every Tuesday and every third Thursday.

Team Christine!

[aleuzzi]

As much as I love Lindsey, he really is a little bitch(or used to be, any way- now he's a lap dog, which is worse, IMO).

Yes—I’d rather he be spiteful, petty, and bitchy than what he is now.

What I wish was that he was beyond all the fm stuff, that he just continued making albums of his own, and continued helping out younger bands…that guy puts Vegas Stevie to shame.

[Macfan4life]

You really think SN was "phoning it in" on the WH tour?

Stars go see other stars' shows all the time. Personally, I find it surprising, though not unbelievable that LB would've gotten a ticket to see see her in '83 at one of the many shows she played in LA that year.
I can only personally speak from the show I saw June 28, 1983, Pittsburgh Civic Arena. My local paper called the concert "What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show since she kept disappearing her band seemed just as confused as her."
She could have been sick because she made cryptic comments and claimed she did not like they way she sounded on the microphone. It was a hot mess.
According to David she got better and her west coast shows were much better. The Fargo, MD show that is professionally shot on Youtube is about a week after I saw her. You see how dazed she is then in parts of it.

IMHO I don't believe Lindsey bought a ticket to see Stevie's solo show. My bet is he saw her HBO show or something or one of her mass events with other artists like the US Festival or the show she did with other acts and Tony Basil. He is clear he saw Christine from the audience but is not as specific with Stevie. If he refused to listen to Bella Donna, I cant imagine him secretly going. But that would be a hoot if he went secretly. Maybe he saw the What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show that I saw :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

Yes—I’d rather he be spiteful, petty, and bitchy than what he is now.

What I wish was that he was beyond all the fm stuff, that he just continued making albums of his own, and continued helping out younger bands…that guy puts Vegas Stevie to shame.

Tusk Lindsey would kick this Lindsey's @ss.

It's REALLY pathetic, him begging her to allow him back. My god, they're so close to dying.... go enjoy your remaining days with your loved ones.

[Nathan]

I can only personally speak from the show I saw June 28, 1983, Pittsburgh Civic Arena. My local paper called the concert "What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show since she kept disappearing her band seemed just as confused as her."
She could have been sick because she made cryptic comments and claimed she did not like they way she sounded on the microphone. It was a hot mess.
According to David she got better and her west coast shows were much better. The Fargo, MD show that is professionally shot on Youtube is about a week after I saw her. You see how dazed she is then in parts of it.

IMHO I don't believe Lindsey bought a ticket to see Stevie's solo show. My bet is he saw her HBO show or something or one of her mass events with other artists like the US Festival or the show she did with other acts and Tony Basil. He is clear he saw Christine from the audience but is not as specific with Stevie. If he refused to listen to Bella Donna, I cant imagine him secretly going. But that would be a hoot if he went secretly. Maybe he saw the What happened to Stevie Nicks Game Show that I saw :lol:

Hmm. I'll have to go back and listen to the Pittsburgh show. I do know that the night before that, 6/27, in Philadelphia, there was nothing 'phoned in' about it. Seriously, one of her best, and others have expressed that opinion, as well.

Of course, I have seen the Fargo show, and "dazed" is not an adjective that comes to mind for me. I seem to recall Sara and Gypsy from that show, and BATB, and my recollection is that she was engaged and present during those. We are talking about the Fargo show, though, and the quality of that is pretty low, as are the variety of angles. Perhaps you have a superior copy.

Frequently disappearing from the stage, to me, does not equate to phoning it in as much as it does to getting 'tuned up.' The WH tour was basically a nonstop party, and SN has said as much in interviews.

You may be right about him meaning the HBO or US Festival shows, rather than going to see it in-person. This is something someone should ask him, if/when he does any future meet and greets. I was too nervous when I met him a few years ago to ask anything substantive, lol.

[Macfan4life]

Hmm. I'll have to go back and listen to the Pittsburgh show. I do know that the night before that, 6/27, in Philadelphia, there was nothing 'phoned in' about it. Seriously, one of her best, and others have expressed that opinion, as well.

Of course, I have seen the Fargo show, and "dazed" is not an adjective that comes to mind for me. I seem to recall Sara and Gypsy from that show, and BATB, and my recollection is that she was engaged and present during those. We are talking about the Fargo show, though, and the quality of that is pretty low, as are the variety of angles. Perhaps you have a superior copy.

Frequently disappearing from the stage, to me, does not equate to phoning it in as much as it does to getting 'tuned up.' The WH tour was basically a nonstop party, and SN has said as much in interviews.

You may be right about him meaning the HBO or US Festival shows, rather than going to see it in-person. This is something someone should ask him, if/when he does any future meet and greets. I was too nervous when I met him a few years ago to ask anything substantive, lol.
You are right about Philly. She is on fire. My guess is she and Joe stayed up all night and maybe she was ill for the next night in Pittsburgh. She sounded not great. Even though the recording is bad you can still tell something is wrong. She says after GDW, nothing can make me fell better than I did just 10 minutes ago. What does that mean? She is ill? She got bad news? Kim served her divorce papers? Who knows. She stops the concert at some point to rearrange floor speakers by herself.
If you don't think she looks dazed in Largo then we have a difference of opinion. Look at her introduction to Leather and Lace. She expresses her band's concern that she disappeared backstage and relates herself to a captain of a ship. You can see that her face is numb and she is high as a kite which is why that professionally shot show never saw the light of day. Wild Heart shows were hit or miss like the RAL tour. Its been a consensus here that the first part of the tour was not great.

[SteveMacD]

i think my CD had a sticker that said that too ! ahh, the old days of buying CDs in Sam Goody...

anyway that's true what you said about Lb probably not being a good motivator...he seemed a little too intense and brittle about everything, and perhaps a bit arrogant. i have an old interview from around 88 w john, chris (and maybe Rick vito?)-- where chris was sort of explaining how LB left because he wasn't happy etc and things w the new members were going well... and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.' i'm assuming he was talking about LB, who must have been coming across as an arrogant ass. (although to be fair he was working the hardest on TITN, along w chris, so it makes sense that he may have been frustrated at everyone else slacking off and being weighed down by their own issues and addictions.)

but anyway, i think there were times when he was not a particularly good motivator! :rolleyes:

--Lis

He did an interview with Bass Player during the Time era and flat out said that he didn’t like how Lindsey was always telling him what to play instead of letting him put his own artistic stamp on the music.

[bombaysaffires]

Leadership, leadership, leadership.

Being the "architect" of the Fleetwood Mac sound, as the sticker on the OOTC CD said when I bought it, he was kind of the leader of the band, in that respect.

But throughout my professional career, I'm convinced that a good leader should be what coaches always taught me: he motivates, not imposes. The best way to convince your team is thru motivation. I'm not saying Lindsey was 100% an imposer, and not that the others were 100% victims. But I think the ability to motivate was weak in him.

that's why in many ways Mick has always been and still is the 'leader' of this band... he's the rah-rah cheerleader even though some of them get pissy about it. He's the one who ultimately stays in touch with everyone and tries to figure out how they can make it all work when everyone else is in their stubborn corners. For all his faults (and he has plenty) each and every member of this toxic tribe has said Mick is the glue that holds them together (even if sometimes tenuously) and I think there's truth in that.

I do wonder if Lindsey just feels like he wants to make amends or needs to make amends for some of his bitchy, controlling past. He says something about that in the SYW doc... 'making up for how things were' and he gets teary. Though Stevie remained and remains skeptical... She's referenced it interviews since and she wrote that part in You May Be The One about it... "you may cry the tears, but the tears aren't really for me, you say it's taken years, years of regret and pain....":shrug:

[WalkAThinLine.]

He did an interview with Bass Player during the Time era and flat out said that he didn’t like how Lindsey was always telling him what to play instead of letting him put his own artistic stamp on the music.

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

I would too! not sure if i ever saw that one. although john has said several times there was some butting heads and friction between him and LB. and Lb has said 'there was never much of a rapport with John.'

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

I would too! not sure if i ever saw that one. although john has said several times there was some butting heads and friction between him and LB. and Lb has said 'there was never much of a rapport with John.'

--Lis

And that blame goes to Lindsey. John is a fantastic bass player. His lines are instantly recognizable. So many fm songs would be far less without him. He is a serious link between eras and changes in taste. The bass in Little Lies, for instance, shines through all the slick production gloss and forms an unmistakable bridge with older projects.

I once read in one of this site’s q/a that Ken Caillat — or was it Keith Olsen — thought John’s playing was too busy. I’d say John ignores LA-session player approaches that prioritize guitar and keys and vocals over a creative and driving rhythm.

[HomerMcvie]

And that blame goes to Lindsey. John is a fantastic bass player. His lines are instantly recognizable. So many fm songs would be far less without him. He is a serious link between eras and changes in taste. The bass in Little Lies, for instance, shines through all the slick production gloss and forms an unmistakable bridge with older projects.

I once read in one of this site’s q/a that Ken Caillat — or was it Keith Olsen — thought John’s playing was too busy. I’d say John ignores LA-session player approaches that prioritize guitar and keys and vocals over a creative and driving rhythm.

Well, and who wants to take orders from some newbie, 4 years your junior, telling you what you're supposed to play?

I mean, Lindsey's vision is what made them superstars, but I totally get how John felt.

[Villavic]

i have an old interview from around 88 w john, chris (and maybe Rick vito?)-- where chris was sort of explaining how LB left because he wasn't happy etc and things w the new members were going well... and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.' i'm assuming he was talking about LB,

The interviews I saw with John telling about the butting heads and friction between him and LB, I thought he referred to the early years of this lineup. But since that interview was in '88, it's obvious old habits never went away.

I also remember hearing the audio when John admitted he quietly said to Lindsey "I think you'd better leave now", on August 7 at Christine house. And then he laughed saying "but I meant leave the house, not the band!"

[SteveMacD]

Do you have the pdf of those pages for the John McVie interview? I would be curious to read it.

I wish. I found the cover when trying to find the transcript of the interview. I don’t think I have the magazine anymore. A bunch of stuff of mine got tossed out over twenty years ago.

[SteveMacD]

Well, and who wants to take orders from some newbie, 4 years your junior, telling you what you're supposed to play?

John had had an actual noteworthy career. He was the bass player on the album that saw Eric Clapton go from being a hotshot guitarist in a club band to being one of the biggest guitarists on the planet, and the album that first introduced the Gibson Les Paul through a cranked Marshall sound. And then John had been the bassist for one of the bigger bands in Europe in the late 60s.

Lindsey might have had vision, but it was entirely too rigid. John’s bass on SHN blows away what Lindsey did by a country mile.

[aleuzzi]

Lindsey might have had vision, but it was entirely too rigid. John’s bass on SHN blows away what Lindsey did by a country mile.

You beat me to it. I always site the earlier version of SHN as a case in point. The bass lines there are fantastic.

[bombaysaffires]

John's bass is one of the major things that transform Stevie's songs. One glaring thing missing on her solo records is his playing.

[soul_drifter333]

Anyone who's ever had a job deals with these same issues. The Mac may be a little more intense since they travel together - in luxury no less and very well paid. Lindsey was the one with the most ideas and visions in the way he wanted things to sound. Sometimes it worked (1st 4 albums) and sometimes it failed (SYW, SWS), but everyone in the workplace has to work with different personailty types and some of them are difficult at verious times.


The interviews I saw with John telling about the butting heads and friction between him and LB, I thought he referred to the early years of this lineup. But since that interview was in '88, it's obvious old habits never went away.

I also remember hearing the audio when John admitted he quietly said to Lindsey "I think you'd better leave now", on August 7 at Christine house. And then he laughed saying "but I meant leave the house, not the band!"

[Penguin Emeritus]

John's bass is one of the major things that transform Stevie's songs. One glaring thing missing on her solo records is his playing.

yesss totally! I've always thought that. His bass really adds so much to her songs. it's like it grounds it somehow, and gives it more oomph.

-Lis

[michelej1]

Here’s the Bass Player interview.

http://www.fleetwoodmac.net/fwm/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=264&Itemid=9

[michelej1]

Bassplayer, A life with Fleetwood Mac - John McVie

Bassplayer, May-June 1995
A life with Fleetwood Mac - John McVie
By Alexis Sklarevski

John McVie has been an integral part of several revolutions in popular music. Born on November 26, 1945, McVie grew up in England. He started playing in a group called the Krewsaders while still in school - and he's never stopped. In the 1960s, he laid down the bottom for the seminal blues-rock band John Mayall & the Bluesbreakers, which paved the way for groups like Cream, Led Zeppelin, and the Jeff Beck Group. Then, in the '70s, he helped Fleetwood Mac to become one of the biggest and most successful pop acts in the world. McVie's approach to the bass may not be considered "technical" or "schooled" - but there's no denying that he can inject more heart and soul into one not than more modern "whiz kids" can summon up on an entire record.

Over the past 30 years, partnered with rock-solid drummer Mick Fleetwood, McVie has provided one stellar bass line after another for an astounding array of Fleetwood Mac hits, such as "Rhiannon", "Say you love me", and "Dreams". I had the opportunity to interview John before the start of a Fleetwood Mac recording session in Hollywood, where the band is preparing to add yet another album to its long and colorful history.

What's the new Fleetwood Mac lineup?

There are actually two entities right now. There's the road band, with Dave Mason and Billy Burnette on guitar, Bekka Bramlett (Delaney and Bonnie's daughter) on vocals, Mick, and myself. Then there's the recording band, which has (singer/keyboardist) Christine McVie in it. This new band has a little more edge to it, and it's bluesier than before. Bekka's playing is very R&B, Billy is rock & roll and rockabilly, and Dave is... Well, Dave! The combination seems to work really well; I'm very happy with it.

You've been working on the new album for quite a while.

We started recording in September1993, with the best intentions to finish it in four months; it was going to be a straight-through project, but we were also going out and doing gigs at the same time. We played Crosby, Stills & Nash 25th Anniversary Tour last summer, we did another little tour that ended, and we also went to Europe last December - so the recording has dragged on a bit. We went in, cut some tracks, stopped to rehearse, and then went out on the CSN tour; that turned out to be the best thing that could have happened, because when we came back our chops were really up. We cut 12 tracks in two weeks! We'd never done that before, which is a good lesson for the future. We've done 19 tunes so far, which we'll cut down to 12 for the record.

How have the shifting lineups affected the band over the years?

The first radical change happened when (singer/guitarist) Bob Welch joined the band in 1974; he came from an R&B background, but his writing was very esoteric - we'd never done songs like "Hypnotized" (Mystery to me) and "Bermuda Triangle" (Heroes are hard to find) before. We were always more of a down-to-earth, gut-blues band. When (singer) Stevie Nicks and (singer/guitarist) Lindsey Buckingham joined the next year, we changed again and became more of a vocal "pop" band. We sold a lot of records, although that wasn't a calculated move at all. What caught Mick's attention was Lindsey's guitar playing - the way he could pitch a note and hold it - and also Stevie's voice and her songwriting.

When Stevie and Lindsey joined, did you have any idea how big an influence they would be?

Well, I found out at the first rehearsal! After Christine, Stevie and Lindsey sang one song together, it was like, "Oh - this is really good!" It all worked and was just perfect.

What are the good and bad aspects of playing with the same drummer for so long?

We know each other's playing really well. Mick knows where I'm going, and I know where he's going, so the song locks - hopefully, anyway. There really isn't a bad side, unless there's something we can't see because we're so close to it.

Is there a way in which you approach working out your bass lines?

This is a pet peeve of mine. Before writers had their own home studios, they would come into the studio and say, "I've got a song, and it goes like this" - and they'd bang it out on the piano or guitar. We'd play along with it eyeball to eyeball and go, "Try this… try that," and we'd start working on parts. Now they come in with a DAT that's pretty much the finished version of the tune, with a bass line and everything, and in some cases it's good enough to put on the album. That bothers me, because once an idea for a bass line is in my head, I'm influenced by it; it's hard to get rid of the part the writer recorded and get back to where I can put me into the part. I don't want to just sit there and copy a demo tape. It infuriates me, and I wish people wouldn't do it, even though I guess it's state of the art nowadays.

That sort of ties in with the MTV thing of having to do a video, which I don't care for at all. With videos, the images that go with the track are all predetermined. I enjoy listening to music on the radio, because I like to make up my own pictures to go with what I hear. In keeping with that, I prefer to make up my own bass lines as well.

What do you do when the bass line has already been written?

It depends on the song; I'm most conscious of the melody and how it works with the drums. I always try to get in with the kick drum. On "Dreams", for example (Rumours), the best thing Mick and I could do was play sparsely and let the melody carry the song; it demanded that, because it had a lot of air in it. On "Say you love me" (Fleetwood Mac), though, I chose a moving line that flows underneath the vocal and supports it.

The great thing about Mick - and he's the first to say this - is that he's not a technical drummer at all. He's a feel drummer, and a great feel drummer.

What was it like making the Bluesbreakers record with John Mayall and Eric Clapton?

It was done at Decca Studios in West Hampstead, England, in less that a month. We played together a lot as a band, so we'd just go in and do takes live, with no overdubs. And as soon as the session was finished, we'd be out to gig.

Eric was, and is, a great player - that's it. After the album came out a strange situation developed, because this upstart guy named Peter Green started playing with John. There were guitar style wars going on between them - all that stuff about "Clapton Is God" being sprayed on the walls was real! In a lot of ways, I think Peter was more of an emotional player than Eric was at the time.

When the record was finished, did you have any idea it would have such a big influence on the direction of rock & roll?

No. I mean, we knew it was good, but it's only become a classic with the passage of time. The record was very big among people who liked the blues and were into that scene. At the time, there were definite cliques - people who liked blues, people who liked the Beatles, people who liked this or that - and they tended to be very tight, almost insular about their tastes. That included myself - I got quite snobbish.

At the time, there were three main blues guys in England: John Mayall, Alexis Korner, and a harp player named Cyril Davies, who had a great band. When the American blues players started coming over, Alexis's and Cyril's band would back them up, and when John started to become accepted on the English pub circuit, we began to back the American players too. We played with Sonny Boy Williamson and T-Bone Walker, among others.
I'd like to make the point that John Mayall has not had the credit he deserves for exposing people to the blues. American blues musicians came to Europe and played with us, and through people like John, Alexis, Eric Clapton, and Peter Green, a huge white audience developed. Through this exposure, people would then trace the roots of the music back to the original artists. I believe that John Mayall was fundamental in exposing blues music to the world - and through what happened in Europe, America discovered part of its own culture.

The Bluesbreakers played a lot of cover tunes. Did you try to stay true to the bass lines on the original versions of the songs?

I stayed pretty true to the originals, with a few "inflections". I would sit down and figure out the original lines from the records.

When was Fleetwood Mac formed?

Fleetwood Mac first played on August 14, 1967, at the Windsor Jazz Festival. I was the bass player that night; I was playing with John Mayall, who was headlining. Also there was Chicken Shack, with Christine on piano - she was a killer blues pianist, just a phenomenon! In fact, she was Freddie King's pianist of choice; whenever he came to England, he would ask for Christine. But unless you've heard the Chicken Shack records, you've never heard Chris play blues piano. (ed.note: Christine McVie was known as Christine Perfect at the time. She was later married to, and divorced from, John.)

Peter Green was harassing me to join the band, and I said, "No, I'm fine playing with John". At the time John had horn players in the band, and we were rehearsing at some club when John turned to one of them and said, "Okay -just play it free-form there". I said, with typical blues snobbishness, "I thought this was a blues band, not a jazz band!" I immediately went across the street, called Peter, and asked if he still wanted me to join up. I joined Fleetwood Mac in September '67.

Ten years later you released the most successful Fleetwood Mac album, Rumours. What was it like making that record?

It's a miracle everyone made it out alive! It was a very self-indulgent time; there was no limit, and no one knew when to say, "That's enough!" For example, there was a week-long period when we were convinced the pianos were out of tune, so we went through nine pianos and seven piano tuners and ended up with one guy we called the "Lunar Tuner"! We never took a day off, unless someone was sick. We'd work all night, and at ten o'clock in the morning, we'd be standing outside a pub waiting for it to open so we could have a nightcap, which would end at two in the afternoon. This went on for two months! It's surprising no one got seriously injured. But we did what was necessary to get through it, and if we had to do it over again, I think we'd do exactly the same thing.

How did you record your bass?

Every track was different. On some I recorded direct, and some were a combination of an amp and a direct line. On one track, we combined a direct line and a miked Pignose amp, which was inside an Anvil case! We spent a lot of time on the bass sounds. There was a lot of experimentation going on - putting pads under strings, all kinds of stuff.

Were the songs easy to arrange?

It was straight a head, because we knew each other pretty well. It was a "family" band, even though it was a dysfunctional family. The communication was easy, although that became harder later on.

Did you write the famous vamp section at the end of "The Chain" ?

All those bass lines are mine - every one. When we played "The Chain" in the studios, I just went into that line at the end. They used that tune in Europe for about ten years as the theme for a Saturday-afternoon motoring program about cars and racing - very weird!

It seems as though you've never had a problem coming up with original lines.

No, not really. I butted heads Lindsey a couple times, because he had very fixed ideas; I would say, "Look, this is how I feel it." He was really the only one to do that, though.

Who were your main musical influences?

John Mayall, and Willie Dixon, whom John turned me on to. The Bluesbreakers drummer, Hughie Flint, turned me on to Charles Mingus; there seemed to be a great similarity between Mingus and Willie Dixon, in that they were both very lyrical, melodic players. I must have every Mingus record ever made - I'm a big fan. And Paul McCartney is a great player.

Do you listen to any of the younger players now?

No - I find myself going back to the old stuff all the time.

Do you still enjoy touring?

That's my love. I'd rather be on the road than in the studio, although on the road I miss my family. I love to record, but I can't sit in the studio for 12 or 14 hours - Mick and Chris can do it, but it drives me up the wall.

Did you ever aspire to do sessions outside of Fleetwood Mac?

No. I was always more comfortable in the band, although I've never turned anyone down. I think people have always thought of me as being a bit "out there" and were put of by that. Mick and I did do "Werewolves of London" for Warren Zevon (Excitable boy), which was great, because it turned out to be a big hit - but that's really my only session-playing claim to fame.

What changes have you noticed in your playing over the last ten years or so?

I've realized how much I don't know! Learning to play is an ongoing thing. I don't practice as much as I should, but sometimes I sit down and play along with things. I'll never be a "master" of the instrument, but I've realized and accepted that. It's amazing, but I've actually met people - who shall remain nameless - who are convinced that there's nowhere else for me to go in terms of learning bass.

What styles of music do you find interesting?

I've been listening to a lot of Little Feat lately; their accents and grooves are a different mindset, and I enjoy them a lot. I'm also trying to teach myself how to play the slap style of upright bass.

Where do you see yourself musically in ten years?

Still playing, I hope. I don't know if Fleetwood Mac will still be around, but I'm sure Mick and I will still be around. I recently made an album with a great singer from Seattle named Linda Thomas; the record sold well, so we'll do another one next year. I hope to continue with that.

Are their any other musical styles or techniques you'd like to explore?

I like to work on the upright these days, because I really love that sound and feel. Other than that, I'm quite happy providing support for others.

Thanks to Mari for posting this to the Ledge and to Anusha for sending it to us.

[Villavic]

I butted heads Lindsey a couple times, because he had very fixed ideas; I would say, "Look, this is how I feel it." He was really the only one to do that, though.

A couple of times? That sounds very different from what he said in the '88 interview.

and john was sort of awkwardly hemming and hawing about how previously 'certain people' were 'acting 'holier than thou,' and how things in the studio had been difficult , not really being clear w what he meant until chris told him, 'just say it how it is, john.' and THEN he finally said 'certain people started preaching....which i don't think is music's message.'

[soul_drifter333]

Cool that he likes Little Feat. I've always considered them to be overlooked. Rhino did a great job with the Little Feat reissues including lots of extras, unlike Buckingham Nicks

[SteveMacD]

Cool that he likes Little Feat. I've always considered them to be overlooked. Rhino did a great job with the Little Feat reissues including lots of extras, unlike Buckingham Nicks

Fred Tackett plays trumpet on “Sooner or Later”.

[jmn3]

John's bass is one of the major things that transform Stevie's songs. One glaring thing missing on her solo records is his playing.

John is the real star in Dreams. His bass drives the entire song from beginning to end

[SteveMacD]

John is the real star in Dreams. His bass drives the entire song from beginning to end

GDW, Rhiannon, Sara, Angel, SOTM, and especially “Smile At You”, too. And that’s just Stevie!

Lindsey was completely misguided as far as John goes. Glad he eventually figured it out. “Down On Rodeo” is superlative.

[sue]

John is the real star in Dreams. His bass drives the entire song from beginning to end


Whenever I play Rhiannon, all I hear is John’s base line ..
Fabulous

[aleuzzi]

That John McVie interview is great. Loved his candor about the frustration he feels when songwriters come to the studio with pre-recorded tracks…

But, being a Christine nut, I have to cite this:

“Also there was Chicken Shack, with Christine on piano - she was a killer blues pianist, just a phenomenon! In fact, she was Freddie King's pianist of choice; whenever he came to England, he would ask for Christine. But unless you've heard the Chicken Shack records, you've never heard Chris play blues piano. (ed.note: Christine McVie was known as Christine Perfect at the time. She was later married to, and divorced from, John.)”

I had no idea she sat in for Freddie King when he was playing in London. That’s awesome.

[HomerMcvie]

That John McVie interview is great. Loved his candor about the frustration he feels when songwriters come to the studio with pre-recorded tracks…

But, being a Christine nut, I have to cite this:

“Also there was Chicken Shack, with Christine on piano - she was a killer blues pianist, just a phenomenon! In fact, she was Freddie King's pianist of choice; whenever he came to England, he would ask for Christine. But unless you've heard the Chicken Shack records, you've never heard Chris play blues piano. (ed.note: Christine McVie was known as Christine Perfect at the time. She was later married to, and divorced from, John.)”

I had no idea she sat in for Freddie King when he was playing in London. That’s awesome.

She said that that's how she learned to play blues piano. She went out and bought Freddie King records.

[aleuzzi]

She said that that's how she learned to play blues piano. She went out and bought Freddie King records.

Yes, I knew that. But I didn’t know she actually sat for him at live shows in London. Wish there was some audio or video of that…

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, I knew that. But I didn’t know she actually sat for him at live shows in London. Wish there was some audio or video of that…

It was news to me as well.

[aleuzzi]

It was news to me as well.

There has got to be aural evidence somewhere in some form—even if it’s only a few seconds…

[SteveMacD]

I thought Mick said something in his first book about that.

[HomerMcvie]

I thought Mick said something in his first book about that.

Well fukc, where is Villavic when you don't need him? :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Villa's the best!!

[HomerMcvie]

Villa's the best!!

He's the god damnest best book quoter in the world.

THE WORLD, JERRY!

[jbrownsjr]

He's the god damnest best book quoter in the world.

THE WORLD, JERRY!

Always fun to see what the various books have to say; especially, book to book. And all the best friends in the world, etc.

[Villavic]

I thought Mick said something in his first book about that.

I'm back after a long weekend. Monday and Tuesday were holidays, national holiday, Independence day.

This is a long thread, I'm a bit lost about this. Mick said something about what?

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm back after a long weekend. Monday and Tuesday were holidays, national holiday, Independence day.

This is a long thread, I'm a bit lost about this. Mick said something about what?

Well….if other posts are anything to go by….youre back after a long trip :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Well….if other posts are anything to go by….youre back after a long trip :lol:

What a long strange trip it's been!

[anusha]

I can see why LB and JMc would have differing visions musically -- LB comes from a very sparse, tight pop/folk sensibility, whereas John really came from the blues, where the players really stretched and it was much less restricted. I think the way they were able to combine their visions is what elevated the music in the end, though I am sure LB was a pill to deal with in the studio.

But unlike just about every other dispute in this band, this seems like a genuine difference of opinion that isn't petty or spiteful or small, which I can live with. :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

It’s funny, but I was listening to “You Keep Me Hangin’ On” (long story). I was trying to focus on the lyrics, but the only thing I could focus on was James Jamerson’s bass playing and how much John’s playing reminded me of his.

How Lindsey couldn’t figure how to use that in a pop setting still perplexes me.

[HomerMcvie]

It’s funny, but I was listening to “You Keep Me Hangin’ On” (long story). I was trying to focus on the lyrics, but the only thing I could focus on was James Jamerson’s bass playing and how much John’s playing reminded me of his.

How Lindsey couldn’t figure how to use that in a pop setting still perplexes me.

Maybe he was just being a stubborn ass?