Dreams got too much respect?

[Macfan4life]

Dreams is on this list of the 6 songs that got too much respect. Ouch!
The Eagles New Kid In Town is also on the list. I am a big Eagles fan but that was always one of my least favorites. But its still great.
Don't shoot the messenger.


6 1970s songs that got too much respect

The 1970s were a fantastic decade for music, except in cases such as the songs that follow. Many people will love them still, but blindly. That is meant as no disrespect. What we find we love about art is difficult to explain sometimes.

We also cannot base what is good or bad on how well a song charts. Some tunes find surprising success, and some others fail. Timing is everything.


That is partly the problem with the songs below. They sound like the 1970s, and that limits their relevance in later decades. In some cases, the lyrics are just, well...silly.

Six 1970s songs that charted higher than they should have

Fleetwood Mac - "Dreams"
The problem with this song is the same issues from the album the track comes from, Rumours. The songs are mostly self-important as the band takes turns writing songs about breaking up with likely one of the other members of the band. The whole thing feels self-gratifying even while singing about the individual band member's pain.

The Eagles - "New Kid in Town"
The band knew how to take the bones of a melody, add some harmonies, and make a hit. If the Eagles were about one thing, it was about making a bunch of money. They were successful that way.

This song also became a successful selling tune, but that does not mean it has much merit. It feels slight, and the words do not strain for much originality. That is OK, though, because the band made money from it which was the ultimate goal.

America - "Horse with No Name"
The song was banned on some radio stations in the United States because of the word "horse." It would be nice to leave that there without any explanation, but that would be too easy. "Horse" is another word for heroin and some stations thought the track was a reference to the drug. Instead, the tune is about trying to find a peaceful place.

What might have been a better excuse for the song to be banned is that it simply is not very good. It reached the top of the charts in many countries. Still, the words and tune sound more like a track children might sing in elementary school than a good pop tune.

Eric Carmen - "All By Myself"
Cash Box, which is no longer in circulation and with good reason based on bits like the one that is about to follow, said this song "captures the vocal power of at least two of the three Bee Gees and seems also to have tapped the lyric capabilities of a Paul McCartney." What? First of all, that seems like a slap to one of the Bee Gees, but Carmen is a wordsmith along the lines of McCartney? Silly.
The lines, "Hard to be sure/Sometimes I feel so insecure/And love's so distant and obscure/Remains the cure" surely had Carmen reaching for his thesaurus full of "-ure" words. And he did not even come up with an original melody. The song is based on a movement by Sergei Rachmaninoff. This track is an example of the worst part of the shimmery 1970s sound.

Dave Loggins - "Please Come to Boston"
Loggins sure does make it difficult for his love to pin him down. The song is a plea for her to join him as he misses her ever so much, but then he keeps moving around. Sure, "Boston" is in the title, but the singer also shows up in Denver and Los Angeles.

Somehow, the track, with a sound of its time but seemingly overwrought five decades later, was nominated for the Best Male Pop Vocal Performance Grammy. It also reached number five on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. Just goes to show you that you don't have to be good to be popular.


Styx - "Babe"
One does not have to dislike Styx to dislike this song. The issue is that it is unbelievably cheesy and saccharine that one might use the track as more of a joke in a film. In fact, that has happened previously with the song in the movie Big Daddy, though in the most respectful way one can diss a track.

Written by vocalist Dennis DeYoung, there is one cool bit of the song. DeYoung wrote it for his wife, Suzanne, and the two are still together after 50 years. Maybe the track has worth, after all.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/6-songs-from-the-1970s-that-got-far-too-much-respect/ar-BB1raoAY?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=be6849fa3afc482c83a0ab56ad7d9025&ei=89

Did you know that when Stevie first played Dreams to Christine she was not impressed and thought it was terrible and boring with the same 3 chords. It was not until Lindsey changed things up that Christine fell in love with it and added her magical parts.

[Villavic]

I liked Dreams a lot since the first times I heard it, though it wasn't enough reason to become a Mac fan. It was impossible for me to find it self-important or anything, cause I was 11, and my limited knowledge of english at that age prevented me from understanding the lyrics.

I still love the song, though I get tired of listening to it for periods so I take a break from it, from time to time. Same as Hotel California, How Deep Is Your Love, and many more. But still, beautiful songs.

More beautiful and romantic (though it's cheesy too) than Babe, is First time, from the same Styx album, Cornerstone.

And yes, the arrangements can completely transform a song. And of course the singe. I've heard the original What's Love Got to Do with It, played by Bucks Fizz, and it sucks. Same as Nothing Compares to You, by his author, Prince.

[Macfan4life]

I liked Dreams a lot since the first times I heard it, though it wasn't enough reason to become a Mac fan. It was impossible for me to find it self-important or anything, cause I was 11, and my limited knowledge of english at that age prevented me from understanding the lyrics.

I still love the song, though I get tired of listening to it for periods so I take a break from it, from time to time. Same as Hotel California, How Deep Is Your Love, and many more. But still, beautiful songs.

More beautiful and romantic (though it's cheesy too) than Babe, is First time, from the same Styx album, Cornerstone.

And yes, the arrangements can completely transform a song. And of course the singe. I've heard the original What's Love Got to Do with It, played by Bucks Fizz, and it sucks. Same as Nothing Compares to You, by his author, Prince.
Yes, Dreams like any song on Rumours is timeless although I am tired of hearing it at times. It has all the makings of a hit. The chorus is really good. The lyrics are good and not cheezy IMHO. The bass groove hooks you in. Christine and Lindsey's magical playing and Mick's drumming all come together really well. Ripping off the Carpenters really worked for the song too. Those voice over harmonies add the cream to the top.
I can sort of understand Christine's suspicions of the song. ALL of Stevie's contributions to the White Album were brought from Buckingham/Nicks. Chris was probably not convinced so much that Stevie could write something herself (yet). As they say, seeing is beliveing.

[Nathan]

Yes, Dreams like any song on Rumours is timeless although I am tired of hearing it at times. It has all the makings of a hit. The chorus is really good. The lyrics are good and not cheezy IMHO. The bass groove hooks you in. Christine and Lindsey's magical playing and Mick's drumming all come together really well. Ripping off the Carpenters really worked for the song too. Those voice over harmonies add the cream to the top.
I can sort of understand Christine's suspicions of the song. ALL of Stevie's contributions to the White Album were brought from Buckingham/Nicks. Chris was probably not convinced so much that Stevie could write something herself (yet). As they say, seeing is beliveing.

Can you say more about this please?

[Macfan4life]

Can you say more about this please?
In the 1997 20th anniversary of Rumours documentary Lindsey stated that the voiceover tracks with Stevie was ripped off from the Carpenters. That sort of was groundbreaking and a trademark of the Carpenters and it fit the song perfectly. It gives Dreams more dimension IMHO. Lindsey also took inspiration from the Bee Gees Jive Talkin for Second Hand News. If you listen to the beat its very similar/identical to Jive Talkin.
Lindsey definitely had ideas and sometimes you borrow aka steal a great idea too.

[bombaysaffires]

Dreams highlights how great the band is when everyone is featured doing their best. It was a successful single because of all 5 members. Without the other 4, it would not have succeeded.

of the things this article could have dinged Dreams for (2 chords for ex) it picks on the fact that it was one band member singing about another band member? Dumbest reason ever. Every love song/heartbreak song is one person singing about another. So what if it's about another band member??

I've heard Lindsey say in interviews that he drew inspiration from the guitar that opens Jive Talking and the texture of the different guitar parts, I've never heard him talk about the beat.

[Macfan4life]

Dreams highlights how great the band is when everyone is featured doing their best. It was a successful single because of all 5 members. Without the other 4, it would not have succeeded.

of the things this article could have dinged Dreams for (2 chords for ex) it picks on the fact that it was one band member signing about another band member? Dumbest reason ever. Every love song/heartbreak song is one person singing about another. So what if it's about another band member??

I've heard Lindsey say in interviews that he drew inspiration from the guitar that opens Jive Talking and the texture of the different guitar parts, I've never heard him talk about the beat.
Yes. You are correct. Correction: it was the guitar part on Jive Talkin that gave inspiration to Second Hand News (not the beat).

You are also correct about the 5 parts. When Dreams gets isolated, each part is so intense and so good which is why it really is a great song.

[Villavic]

ALL of Stevie's contributions to the White Album were brought from Buckingham/Nicks. Chris was probably not convinced so much that Stevie could write something herself (yet).

Does it mean Lindsey helped Stevie co-writing Landslide, Rhiannon and Crystal? Or at least that's what Christine thought? That's new information for me.

[Macfan4life]

Does it mean Lindsey helped Stevie co-writing Landslide, Rhiannon and Crystal? Or at least that's what Christine thought? That's new information for me.
NO, I never alluded that Lindsey co-wrote those songs but he was instrumental to crafting and arranging them.
Crystal and Rhiannon were Buckingham Nicks songs. They were performed and arranged before joining Fleetwood Mac. I never said Lindsey wrote those songs but he definitely conducted the music to them. The songs were brought to the table. John McVie was the member that put Crystal on The White album. He liked it so much he lobbied to put it on the album. Stevie wanted something new.
I was pointing out Stevie's Dreams demo did not impress Chris until Lindsey molded it. I was speculating that it was a new song and I could understand suspicions because her other songs were already arranged before joining the band.
For Rumours it was the first time her songs were completely fresh. Stevie was writing in the moment and brought Dreams fresh to the band i.e. Chris and the rest of the band got to see Stevie's rough demos and her writing abilities in real time. Lindsey has said multiple times and says it in the Rumours anniversary documentary that Stevie needed his help crafting her songs. She resented that aspect and he was becoming less willing to do it. But he still did. I think Dreams is a fantastic written song that Stevie was really proud of. But her first playing it for Chris did not come off right. It was the same 3 chords. To Lindsey's credit he took the song to the stratosphere with his elements and craft. I am not knocking Stevie for her writing talent but it is what it is.

[bombaysaffires]

Lindsey has however said that numerous of Stevie's songs should have been credited as cowrites by most people's standards.... In other words: he didn't demand credit for reworking her material which allowed her to get more credit than she merited.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey has however said that numerous of Stevie's songs should have been credited as cowrites by most people's standards.... In other words: he didn't demand credit for reworking her material which allowed her to get more credit than she merited.

But he was SO MEAN to her!!!!!!:shrug:;):]

[jbrownsjr]

Dreams would be generic on B/N album.

Add the brits and it becomes a taste of magic.

[SteveMacD]

Dreams would be generic on B/N album.

Add the brits and it becomes a taste of magic.

This.

Like, if there was ever any doubt, compare the January, 1975, “Rhiannon” to the live versions just a few months later. That’s when all those years of holding court with the likes of Deep Purple come into play. They had a musical vocabulary Buckingham Nicks just didn’t.

I know Stevie and Lindsey like to believe they would have been successful without Fleetwood Mac, however, while Buckingham Nicks had good songs, good voices, and incredible harmonies and Lindsey was an excellent guitarist, their music didn’t have much muscle and they were prone to meandering. Side 2 starts off well and ends on an amazing note, but the middle of it is pretty meh.

I made a playlist of Christine’s Penguin songs and Buckingham Nicks (minus the instrumentals and “Crystal”) because they’re from roughly the same time, and Fleetwood Mac was clearly much further along. Lindsey and Stevie added polish, sex appeal, and completed a mainstream package, but Christine was already there. Fleetwood Mac was arguably even more eccentric and experimental.

Remember Me
Crying In The Night
Without A Leg To Stand On
Long Distance Winner
Dissatisfied
-
Don’t Let Me Down Again
Races Are Run
Did You Ever Love Me
Lola
Frozen Love

[Macfan4life]

Dreams would be generic on B/N album.

Add the brits and it becomes a taste of magic.
Good to see you back. You have been missing and hope you are well and safe from the fires.

[jbrownsjr]

This.

Like, if there was ever any doubt, compare the January, 1975, “Rhiannon” to the live versions just a few months later. That’s when all those years of holding court with the likes of Deep Purple come into play. They had a musical vocabulary Buckingham Nicks just didn’t.

I know Stevie and Lindsey like to believe they would have been successful without Fleetwood Mac, however, while Buckingham Nicks had good songs, good voices, and incredible harmonies and Lindsey was an excellent guitarist, their music didn’t have much muscle and they were prone to meandering. Side 2 starts off well and ends on an amazing note, but the middle of it is pretty meh.

I made a playlist of Christine’s Penguin songs and Buckingham Nicks (minus the instrumentals and “Crystal”) because they’re from roughly the same time, and Fleetwood Mac was clearly much further along. Lindsey and Stevie added polish, sex appeal, and completed a mainstream package, but Christine was already there. Fleetwood Mac was arguably even more eccentric and experimental.

Remember Me
Crying In The Night
Without A Leg To Stand On
Long Distance Winner
Dissatisfied
-
Don’t Let Me Down Again
Races Are Run
Did You Ever Love Me
Lola
Frozen Love

Tony and I have discussed these very same things (ad nauseum), for years.
B/N was good. Sometimes very good, but they flopped for a reason. They didn't have "it" until 1975. The little following they had in Birmingham does not a superstar make.

It's truly about vocabulary and experience. Playing for Peter Green, Spencer, Kirwan, Welch, Walker, Weston, etc. That can't be easy if you're a musician and know what it takes to put things together, (comp wise, and live performance)

Dreams is an example of making something out of almost nothing. And the joke is to give LB all the credit.

My italian grandma once gave me all the ingredients for pasta sauce. Including the meatball that she mixed for me.

I put it all together and everyone told me that my sauce and meatballs were the best. But, I knew. hahahah

[jbrownsjr]

Good to see you back. You have been missing and hope you are well and safe from the fires.

Thank you, it was extremely stressful. Sometimes afraid to sleep. And people were doing arson all over town. I have pets. (well now pet) because I just put a cat down. I feel like flying to England and isolating for 15 years. But, glad to be back.

[Macfan4life]

Thank you, it was extremely stressful. Sometimes afraid to sleep. And people were doing arson all over town. I have pets. (well now pet) because I just put a cat down. I feel like flying to England and isolating for 15 years. But, glad to be back.
I can only imagine. After seeing some of this I told myself I will never complain about hurricanes anymore. At least you know where a hurricane is going and there is something to go back to. Speaking of pets, that dog that was reunited with its owner after the neighborhood burned down was so moving. It was one small miracle in this disaster.
Glad you are ok.
Several years ago when Cat 4 Irma was supposed to go right over Miami. I remember that night in bed and I could not sleep either. I mentally made a plan what I was going to take and leave. I had a big dog then too. I called my cousin and asked her if we could come. I told her if the storm did not change paths that I would be coming. Thankfully in the morning the storm changed paths and we did not get hit directly. We lost power and trees down but no damage to the roof of what would have been a direct hit.
Fire is definitely scarier than any storm.

[bwboy]

Thank you, it was extremely stressful. Sometimes afraid to sleep. And people were doing arson all over town. I have pets. (well now pet) because I just put a cat down. I feel like flying to England and isolating for 15 years. But, glad to be back.

I had no idea you were going through all that, or that you even lived anywhere near where all that happened- I’m so glad you’re safe, but sorry you went through it! For some reason I thought you lived in Ohio, far away from the fires. The PTSD after a disaster is a real thing so keep an eye on that. And sorry about your pet cat, as if you didn’t already have enough to deal with.

[jbrownsjr]

I had no idea you were going through all that, or that you even lived anywhere near where all that happened- I’m so glad you’re safe, but sorry you went through it! For some reason I thought you lived in Ohio, far away from the fires. The PTSD after a disaster is a real thing so keep an eye on that. And sorry about your pet cat, as if you didn’t already have enough to deal with.

I used to live in Ohio. Wayyyyyyy back when...

[HomerMcvie]

I used to live in Ohio. Wayyyyyyy back when...

Once a Buckeye, always a Buckeye?

[jbrownsjr]

Once a Buckeye, always a Buckeye?

Even Steve and I don't know what a Buckeye is!!

However, they are National Champs!

[HomerMcvie]

Even Steve and I don't know what a Buckeye is!!

However, they are National Champs!

Hell I'm a damned Hoosier, and I know what they are! I've got some in a drawer somewhere!

[aleuzzi]

Tony and I have discussed these very same things (ad nauseum), for years.
B/N was good. Sometimes very good, but they flopped for a reason. They didn't have "it" until 1975. The little following they had in Birmingham does not a superstar make.

It's truly about vocabulary and experience. Playing for Peter Green, Spencer, Kirwan, Welch, Walker, Weston, etc. That can't be easy if you're a musician and know what it takes to put things together, (comp wise, and live performance)

Dreams is an example of making something out of almost nothing. And the joke is to give LB all the credit.

My italian grandma once gave me all the ingredients for pasta sauce. Including the meatball that she mixed for me.

I put it all together and everyone told me that my sauce and meatballs were the best. But, I knew. hahahah

Absolutely, John. If you take the vocals off the track, you realize how much music the band is able to make from a very skeletal song. And I mean THE BAND. The John-Mick-Christine combo is so potent here.

And the harmony vocals? Everyone talks about how baleful and devastating the three voices sound. If you listen carefully, it’s the high end of certain phrases that positively aches: that’s Christine. The BN duo combo is bubbly, lively, and even bewitching. I’m thinking of “Frozen Love” and “I Don’t Wanna Know.” But it’s Christine’s voice that makes the difference, that introduces that unusual, irresistible ingredient so evident on “Dreams” and “Rhiannon.”

Just listen to the block harmonies on the title tune for “Heroes” and on “Nightwatch.” Or the chamber choir on “Hypnotized.” There’s a myth that Lindsey and Stevie brought the harmonies. But on wax Christine and Bob were already bringing it.

What Lindsey and Stevie brought was a more commercially viable package—the pretty couple from the west coast with country-inflected voices. They also brought much needed stage dynamics.

But FM were already sophisticated. “Why” is gorgeously orchestrated ON A MOBILE UNIT.

[SteveMacD]

But FM were already sophisticated. “Why” is gorgeously orchestrated ON A MOBILE UNIT.

Don’t let it being a mobile unit fool you, lots of legendary albums were recorded on The Rolling Stones Mobil Unit, like Led Zeppelin IV and Who’s Next.

[aleuzzi]

Don’t let it being a mobile unit fool you, lots of legendary albums were recorded on The Rolling Stones Mobil Unit, like Led Zeppelin IV and Who’s Next.

True. Especially Who’s Next. Those Brits knew how to do it…

[BigAl84]

In the 1997 20th anniversary of Rumours documentary Lindsey stated that the voiceover tracks with Stevie was ripped off from the Carpenters. That sort of was groundbreaking and a trademark of the Carpenters and it fit the song perfectly. It gives Dreams more dimension IMHO. Lindsey also took inspiration from the Bee Gees Jive Talkin for Second Hand News. If you listen to the beat its very similar/identical to Jive Talkin.
Lindsey definitely had ideas and sometimes you borrow aka steal a great idea too.

Oh please. Layered vocal overdubbing was all over top 40 radio in the 70s. Yes the carpenters were well known for perfecting it. Lindsey did not rip off anything from anyone.

[HomerMcvie]

I think the Jive Talking rip off was the beat played on the chair on Second Hand News.

[jbrownsjr]

I think the Jive Talking rip off was the beat played on the chair on Second Hand News.

I think I read in Ken's book that Christine played it. And there's a photo of her at a chair on stage too.

[SteveMacD]

I think I read in Ken's book that Christine played it. And there's a photo of her at a chair on stage too.

I swear I thought it was a steak.

[HomerMcvie]

I think I read in Ken's book that Christine played it. And there's a photo of her at a chair on stage too.

Yuppers. 10 characters.

[jbrownsjr]

I swear I thought it was a steak.

That was on Mirage, I think... And broken glass for Rumours GDW.