"The affairs dented my self respect"

[Macfan4life]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/christine-mcvie-affairs-dented-self-191500126.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

One of the great misconceptions about Fleetwood Mac is how Rumours came about. The band’s 11th album was designed, you often hear, to chronicle the breakdowns between three couples: Mick Fleetwood and his wife Jenny Boyd, Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, and John and Christine McVie. As such, it’s often referred to as a “journey album”, even a “concept album”. There was no pre-planned structure. Drugs, booze, illicit sex and affairs simply took their toll, and as their relationships fell apart, Christine, Stevie and Lindsey all separately brought to the table cathartic pieces that laid bare their own pain, anger, despair – and a little hope.

As they began recording Rumours at the Record Plant Studios in Sausalito, California in February 1976, the band’s producer Ken Caillat soon got the measure of those five distinct personalities. Mick, for instance, was the leader, and a control freak: he would go all night if he could, and sod the home life. Stevie was “the new girl”, she and boyfriend Lindsey having joined the band only in January 1975, who was infuriatingly precious about “her words”. Woe betide anyone who suggested an alteration.

But of all the dynamics within the band, the McVies’ was the most fascinating. Singer and keyboard player Christine was the reluctant member, having quit her own fledgling music career to marry their bassist John, intending to become a housewife and, hopefully, a mother. Drifting into the line-up because she happened to be around when they needed backing vocals here, a bit of piano there, she quickly became an essential component, contributing not only cohesive keyboard-playing and blues-inspired songwriting but her aching and irresistible voice.

It was obvious to anyone who was paying attention that John, Mick’s trusty collaborator, “loved” her – but he also had the most dangerous mistress: the bottle. Christine knew that John was a drinker when she married him. ‘He drank to cope,’ she said, ‘with who he was and who he wasn’t.’ Divorce in the late sixties was a dirty word, but they lasted only eight years. Having called time on their impossible marriage, Christine appeared resigned. She was, nonetheless, able to rise above her feelings: she was still willing to work with John, provided he controlled himself and behaved like a mature adult. He could do this when he was sober, but he lamented their distance when in his cups. He must have known as well as Christine did that they were beyond reconciliation.

He may also have been wracked by jealousy. For Christine was now, in 1976, having an affair with a Fleetwood Mac hand: their suave lighting director, Curry Grant. Their relationship provided light, no-strings relief from the shame and heartache of her ruined marriage. Although the couple lived together for about a year at her West Hollywood home, she regarded their set-up as a convenience and reflected its status in her song You Make Loving Fun.


Christine’s affair with Curry was not her first. She had, three years previously “got tangled up… as my mother would say” with Martin Birch, the band’s married sound engineer. At 25, he was five years her junior. John was aware, and played tit for tat, with a string of groupies. He drank even more. The atmosphere during recording sessions for their 1973 album Mystery to Me became unbearable.

Although Birch, a loyal servant, had engineered five albums for the band, Mick and John fired him. (Grant was also fired, but only for a few months, to teach him a lesson – he was indispensable.).

Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.

Christine’s hesitation to walk away from such a destructive situation, she explained to me in the 90s, had been to do with a fear of “losing everything”: “I wasn’t brave enough, frankly. There was still the stigma of being divorced in those days. My pop [her father] would have been very, very disappointed in me. I didn’t dare do that to him. In some ways, thank God my mother wasn’t still alive to know about it.

Christine McVie in 1969: 'Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all'
Christine McVie in 1969: ‘Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all’ - P. Floyd/Daily Express/Hulton Archive/Getty Images
“Martin was never going to leave his wife. I loved him, but I didn’t want to be a mistress – horrible word – forever. It wasn’t as if I could leave John and go straight into a new set-up with Mart. That was never an option – he made that clear. Neither of us had money, it was still only wages. And I was, you know, John’s missus, not a person in my own right. There was no future in it.

“There was something seedy about [the affairs],” she went on, despondently, “that dented my self-respect. Maybe that was how the others made me feel. If they did, that would have been subliminal – nobody actually said anything, which in some ways made it worse. I didn’t like myself during that whole period. I sank very low.”


Maybe another part of her, I ventured, had thought it might work out with John eventually? “I don’t know,” Christine said. “I disliked my husband intensely for what he’d become, for what he was doing to me and to our marriage. We should have had kids by then. At least one, maybe. But in a way, thank God we didn’t. I could understand completely how things had gotten so bad. We hated the sight of each other. The booze numbed the pain, as did the drugs.

“Fleetwood Mac had become the mistress of us all. There was a sense by then that we could be on the verge of something, a breakthrough – dare I say it, the big time. The band had us by the short and curlies. She wasn’t going to let us go.”


Though the McVies’ union was over (and would be finalised in 1978), both remained married to the band. As for the Fleetwoods, Mick and Jenny had divorced in 1976, remarried four months later, but fell apart again almost immediately. Stevie and Lindsey had disintegrated. Stevie and Mick had a damaging affair. Now international superstars thanks to Rumours, 1977 became “their year”. They toured the world triumphantly, a travelling soap opera, knowing that nothing would ever be the same again. In 1979, they released their punk-infused album Tusk. That same year, Christine met and fell hopelessly for “The One”, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson. The notorious, four-times-married, hell-raising womaniser was so wrong for her that she couldn’t let him go. She believed that she could fix him. He proposed.

Though when, given their punishing schedules, were they going to have time to get married? What about children? She’d had her fallopian tubes tied around the time of her divorce from John but she told me later that she’d looked into the possibility of reversing that.

Five years before her death, Christine would discuss her childlessness with Kirsty Young on BBC Radio 4’s Desert Island Discs. She now insisted that she had never wanted to be a mother.

Turning 40 proved devastating – her motherless status haunted her. Although she remarried in 1986, to Portuguese keyboard player Eddy Quintela, the marriage was a dud before it got off the ground.

The self-confessed ‘Daddy’s girl” was floored by her father Cyril’s death in July 1990. She found herself reliving the loss of her mother 22 years earlier, when she had swept her grief under the carpet. Her father’s passing rekindled that long-buried, unprocessed agony. “Losing Pop made me begin to look at my life differently,” she told me. “I could suddenly see that so much of it was pointless. Devoid of worth.

Christine McVie: 'No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind'
Christine McVie: ‘No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind’ - Fin Costello/Redferns
“A lot of [life],” she went on, “was going through the motions, and I was deferring actual living. For what? To satisfy the insatiable, ever-increasing demands of a record company? To keep the band going? To help keep the rest of them, the profligates, afloat? To make sure the fans carried on buying our records and seeing our shows, which in turn fed the record company? And there was that moment when I saw myself as a hamster in a wheel. I was rich beyond anything 15-year-old me could ever have imagined, ‘just’ from making music. But no amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind. I woke up. I just didn’t want to live that lifestyle any more.”

Christine withdrew in 1990, and bought a manor house back in England. The band played on. Stevie Nicks was now immersed in a massive solo career. They regrouped for Bill Clinton’s presidential inauguration in January 1993, and four years later toured a live album, The Dance. After the New York performance at the Grammys, Christine left the band for good, blaming aviophobia, and moved into her renovated Kentish manor.

Rattling around in her huge home, lonely and depressed, she took up drinking and pills again. A fall down the stairs snapped her out of it. She could only go back. After therapy for fear of flying, she rejoined the Mac in 2014, 17 years after she had left. But her second coming would be short-lived. The health problems that blighted her final forays with the band ended her life in November 2022. She was 79.

Extracted from Songbird: An Intimate Biography of Christine McVie by Lesley-Ann Jones, published by Bonnier Books on Nov 14

[Macfan4life]

Chris's dad death totally changed Chris. After regrouping in late 1990 after his passing she announced she would no longer tour with the band. She even reluctantly agreed to record with them for Time. She was not thrilled about The Dance and refused to tour in Europe. In some ways, the death of her father was also the death of the post-Rumours line up.
In some weird way, Fleetwood Mac saved her life, getting clean and conquering her fear of flying and going full circle.

[bombaysaffires]

Wonder if the book covers the unhealthy relationship she had in Kent that ultimately led to the songs that became In the Meantime. It seems to skip right over it in this excerpt. It was part of her needing to straighten up, along with the alcohol/pills stuff during those years. Though that being said, she did put her time and energy into writing and creating an entire album.

[Macfan4life]

Reading how the recording sessions for Mystery To Me as "unbearable" sort of explains what Bob Welch said. He could not take it anymore. If Mystery To Me was that bad, we can only guess Heroes was the same or worse especially with Weston's recent firing for of all things.......having an affair.
In some sick and weird way, the dysfunction of Buckingham/Nicks sort of saved the band because Chris and John would probably think.......at least we are not that bad and we are not alone. Forward!

Its interesting to read about how fragile Chris was. She was always seen as the strong one. The one that no one messed with. But her words here about the early years and not wanting to divorce John because of what her father would think and she was too scared to walk away shows a side of Chris we don't normally see. Its unique to read about her fragility in the early years.

[Mr Scarrott]

It doesn't seem terribly well-written, I'm afraid.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Its interesting to read about how fragile Chris was. She was always seen as the strong one. The one that no one messed with. But her words here about the early years and not wanting to divorce John because of what her father would think and she was too scared to walk away shows a side of Chris we don't normally see. Its unique to read about her fragility in the early years.

yesss that was pretty fascinating. so interesting to see her viewpoint as to that time, because that's a period we've never heard much about from her. also very interesting to see that she also had kids on her mind in the beginning because she's not ever said much about that either, but she's right that it was probably good that they *didn't*. and if she'd divorced him then, we'd never have had the Rumours five...so i'm glad they hung in. after all that upheaval, it's interesting that john was sooo absolutely devastated/suicidal by the curry thing, when she left for good. i guess he didn't really see that coming, that she'd really end it. i maintain that he adored her but the drinking just really f*cked everything up so badly for so many years.

The only part i question is the part where jones said the marriage to ed was a dud from the start. george hawkins was pretty sure in what he told me that she reeeally loved him for a while, and tried her hardest to keep that marriage together for waaay longer than she should have. and he was very close to her at that time. but on the other hand i wonder if she also knew ed's reputation as well as others did when she married him...? or if she just chose to disregard that, just because she wanted 'to be married' and fulfil that happily ever after part that she could never get right.

i think if john read parts of this, he'd feel sad...:(...but he certainly made it up to her in later years. he was a rock in her life until her dying breath. They did love each other.


--Lis

[Macfan4life]

yesss that was pretty fascinating. so interesting to see her viewpoint as to that time, because that's a period we've never heard much about from her. also very interesting to see that she also had kids on her mind in the beginning because she's not ever said much about that either, but she's right that it was probably good that they *didn't*. and if she'd divorced him then, we'd never have had the Rumours five...so i'm glad they hung in. after all that upheaval, it's interesting that john was sooo absolutely devastated/suicidal by the curry thing, when she left for good. i guess he didn't really see that coming, that she'd really end it. i maintain that he adored her but the drinking just really f*cked everything up so badly for so many years.

The only part i question is the part where jones said the marriage to ed was a dud from the start. george hawkins was pretty sure in what he told me that she reeeally loved him for a while, and tried her hardest to keep that marriage together for waaay longer than she should have. and he was very close to her at that time. but on the other hand i wonder if she also knew ed's reputation as well as others did when she married him...? or if she just chose to disregard that, just because she wanted 'to be married' and fulfil that happily ever after part that she could never get right.

i think if john read parts of this, he'd feel sad...:(...but he certainly made it up to her in later years. he was a rock in her life until her dying breath. They did love each other.


--Lis
That comment about Eddy through me for a loop too. She seemed really happy in 1984 and 1985 before they married. However it could have been one of those relationships that started to dissolve right after marriage. He seemed to be her biggest cheerleader for awhile. As she said, he would always keep her updated on chart positions of her songs. She even gave him writing credits so they must have written together some. We did get one awesome love song about Eddy "Nights in Estoril."
Fleetwood Mac is an odd band for many reasons. The couples issue is one of them. But they were not just couples. Each couple had major issues but each still would be the love of their entire life which impacted their life and the band. Chris and John were jealous of each other's affairs but eventually came full circle and got along. Stevie and Lindsey never went full circle but still had/have this jealous rage thing while were still writing songs about their relationship decades later.
What this small excerpt reveals is the Rumours saga of sleeping around was not new to the band at all. It just came more into focus with now 2 women in the band.
She had some very dark days in Kent. I am so happy she got well and experienced the joy of performing again for the fans. She really fed off that energy.
Because of her fragility or the "dent in her self respect" from the affairs could shed light on why she fell and stayed with Dennis. Many hurt women fall for guys that will hurt them.
I can only imagine how tense things were in the studio or on the road between Chris and John and then add Bob Weston's affair to the mix. It sheds some light on how miserable Bob Welch was. Being the only American with these Brits and these shenanigans was just too much.

[Villavic]

Christine McVie: ‘No amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind’ - Fin Costello/Redferns
“A lot of [life],” she went on, “was going through the motions, and I was deferring actual living. For what? To satisfy the insatiable, ever-increasing demands of a record company? To keep the band going? To help keep the rest of them, the profligates, afloat? To make sure the fans carried on buying our records and seeing our shows, which in turn fed the record company? And there was that moment when I saw myself as a hamster in a wheel. I was rich beyond anything 15-year-old me could ever have imagined, ‘just’ from making music. But no amount of money, I knew, could buy me love or peace of mind. I woke up. I just didn’t want to live that lifestyle any more.”

Christine withdrew in 1990, and bought a manor house back in England. The band played on. Stevie Nicks was now immersed in a massive solo career. They regrouped for Bill Clinton’s presidential inauguration in January 1993, and four years later toured a live album, The Dance. After the New York performance at the Grammys, Christine left the band for good, blaming aviophobia, and moved into her renovated Kentish manor.

It can be deduced that since the early 90s she wanted to get away from the hectic life of bands and tours. Or even before.

"It's like a living thing, this Fleetwood Mac. It's a source stronger than its various members. Christine McVie"

That quote is from Mick's book, written just after the "Comeback" chapter title; the one that describes the birth of Tango, its sessions, and Lindsey's departure. It's not specified when she said it. It could be during 1985-87, or any other time, though definitely before Behind the Mask was released, cause Mick ends the book mentioning that the album is in progress.

I'd like to know when she said that, cause it would be easier to understand if she still felt positively involved in an endless Fleetwood Mac, or that the band would continue to live without her, when she said that.

[bombaysaffires]

That comment about Eddy through me for a loop too. She seemed really happy in 1984 and 1985 before they married. However it could have been one of those relationships that started to dissolve right after marriage. He seemed to be her biggest cheerleader for awhile. As she said, he would always keep her updated on chart positions of her songs. She even gave him writing credits so they must have written together some. We did get one awesome love song about Eddy "Nights in Estoril."
Fleetwood Mac is an odd band for many reasons. The couples issue is one of them. But they were not just couples. Each couple had major issues but each still would be the love of their entire life which impacted their life and the band. Chris and John were jealous of each other's affairs but eventually came full circle and got along. Stevie and Lindsey never went full circle but still had/have this jealous rage thing while were still writing songs about their relationship decades later.
What this small excerpt reveals is the Rumours saga of sleeping around was not new to the band at all. It just came more into focus with now 2 women in the band.
She had some very dark days in Kent. I am so happy she got well and experienced the joy of performing again for the fans. She really fed off that energy.
Because of her fragility or the "dent in her self respect" from the affairs could shed light on why she fell and stayed with Dennis. Many hurt women fall for guys that will hurt them.
I can only imagine how tense things were in the studio or on the road between Chris and John and then add Bob Weston's affair to the mix. It sheds some light on how miserable Bob Welch was. Being the only American with these Brits and these shenanigans was just too much.

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....:laugh:

[Macfan4life]

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....:laugh:
So true.
Do you think Sugar Daddy was about Birch? Was it about her life with John that he could pick her up in a big fancy car but when it comes to love he better leave her alone because someone was loving her for her? John had a vintage car collection. The Mac rolled up in a big classic old Cadillac when they met Stevie and Lindsey on New Years Eve 1974. Makes you wonder she was talking about John in that song as the Sugar Daddy but Birch was the one giving her love.
It gives these early Chris songs such new perspectives. And what the hell was John thinking when these songs were played in the studio.
Why just seems even sadder now. She was so heartbroken for real.
The miserable recordings of Mystery To Me and Rumours led to the most brilliant albums ever.

[HomerMcvie]

It can be deduced that since the early 90s she wanted to get away from the hectic life of bands and tours. Or even before.

"It's like a living thing, this Fleetwood Mac. It's a source stronger than its various members. Christine McVie"

That quote is from Mick's book, written just after the "Comeback" chapter title; the one that describes the birth of Tango, its sessions, and Lindsey's departure. It's not specified when she said it. It could be during 1985-87, or any other time, though definitely before Behind the Mask was released, cause Mick ends the book mentioning that the album is in progress.

I'd like to know when she said that, cause it would be easier to understand if she still felt positively involved in an endless Fleetwood Mac, or that the band would continue to live without her, when she said that.
I've reordered a CASE of the special book lube you like so much...:D

[Penguin Emeritus]

So true.
Do you think Sugar Daddy was about Birch? Was it about her life with John that he could pick her up in a big fancy car but when it comes to love he better leave her alone because someone was loving her for her? John had a vintage car collection. The Mac rolled up in a big classic old Cadillac when they met Stevie and Lindsey on New Years Eve 1974. Makes you wonder she was talking about John in that song as the Sugar Daddy but Birch was the one giving her love.
It gives these early Chris songs such new perspectives. And what the hell was John thinking when these songs were played in the studio.
Why just seems even sadder now. She was so heartbroken for real.
The miserable recordings of Mystery To Me and Rumours led to the most brilliant albums ever.

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis

[Penguin Emeritus]

Yeah it just shows that the drama brought by Stevie and Lindsey was not by any means new to this group of people. Just a different flavor of drama. It's funny how often times writers and even the band themselves like to present things that FM was a bunch of calm and reasonable Brits til the crazy Californians showed up....:laugh:

i think bob welch would have had a lot to say about that !! lol he was well versed in the drama.

--Lis

[HomerMcvie]

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis

After he got sober, do you wonder if he really had any regrets?

[Macfan4life]

i kind of think birch was sort of in the past by then...? that ended in late 73 i think, or maybe early 74. but she prob wrote sugar daddy in california in that whole new environment. maybe it was just a fun vibe... not about anyone in particular. unless she wrote it earlier!

john wasn't in the studio much in 73. you'd think the sadness of the songs would have hit him, but alcoholics live in denial. i will never forget george hawkins saying to me, 'i've known so few people who were really in control of their addictions.' i don't think john was able to see things clearly or change his behavior to any great degree, despite the love he had for chris.

--Lis
I looked it up and Chris was asked about the song and she said it was fantasy and not about anyone in particular. But who knows. I never bought her explanation that Oh Daddy was about Mick. Its so describing someone's relationship being dependent on a toxic lover or parental figure. Its far too personal to be about Mick. But I think when the 20th anniversary of Rumours came around it made sense to have a literal meaning of the song since Mick was the only father in the band. But I call her bluff ;)

[Penguin Emeritus]

After he got sober, do you wonder if he really had any regrets?

oh god. yes i think he did. maybe in 'sober moments'.... because he never really seemed to be able to maintain sobriety, unless he managed to do it around his cancer when chris said he 'had an awakening and stopped drinking'. but she'd said he'd stopped drinking a few times over the years and it didn't stick. i have heard he was very, very good to her in their later years....perhaps trying to make up for his abysmal behavior earlier. he did actually say in his q&a that his only regret was having hurt people he loved.

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

It doesn't seem terribly well-written, I'm afraid.

I would agree. Beyond the tragic, doomed tone the author insists on using, there’s also this hilarious anachronism:

“Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.”

In the essay, this passage refers to Christine’s 1973 predicament after her affair with Birch, two years before she met the two with whom she made magical harmonies. Splendidly stupid.

What is the author’s motive in painting this portrait of a Christine? Why is she hellbent on showing the world how tragic Christine’s story is supposed to be?

[Penguin Emeritus]

I looked it up and Chris was asked about the song and she said it was fantasy and not about anyone in particular. But who knows. I never bought her explanation that Oh Daddy was about Mick. Its so describing someone's relationship being dependent on a toxic lover or parental figure. Its far too personal to be about Mick. But I think when the 20th anniversary of Rumours came around it made sense to have a literal meaning of the song since Mick was the only father in the band. But I call her bluff ;)

she did BS a lot lol. didn't she say she stepped into jenny's shoes when she wrote Oh Daddy? I think she did. maybe just the vibe of a troubled/toxic relationship in general. i think she and jenny were close and saw a lot of each other's marital issues, having lived together at benifols.... they both had very flawed partners.

--Lis

[Penguin Emeritus]

I would agree. Beyond the tragic, doomed tone the author insists on using, there’s also this hilarious anachronism:

“Christine could have walked away – she was only 30 years old, talented and in her prime. She might have divorced John, cut her losses and resumed her solo career. Chicken Shack, the second-division pre-Fleetwood Mac blues outfit with whom she famously scored a hit with the Etta James cover “I’d Rather Go Blind”, would have had her back in a beat. But Christine knew the magical harmonies that she, Stevie and Lindsey conjured together were too precious to throw away.”

In the essay, this passage refers to Christine’s 1973 predicament after her affair with Birch, two years before she met the two with whom she made magical harmonies. Splendidly stupid.

What is the author’s motive in painting this portrait of a Christine? Why is she hellbent on showing the world how tragic Christine’s story is supposed to be?

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis

It’s as if Jones is writing her own version of Valley of the Dolls. The slippery slope for women in show business! Men who ruin women!!!

[Macfan4life]

yeah, i noticed that, too. was she gonna leave in 1975 to go back to chicken shack in the UK and sing I'd Rather Go Blind?? it didn't make sense. jones is probably going for drama and trying to pull at heartstrings as she tells this tale. she's trying to sell books lol

--Lis
I think we would need to read more to jump to conclusions about the author. Was she not Chris's friend? I don't see anything negative towards Chris at all. If anything it makes Chris very human and vulnerable. We all wondered the hell she went through with John and how she coped. Could you imagine what someone really could have written even the blunt truth that would leave people gasping. I found this heartfelt showing her struggles not just as a woman but as a human being. All of this would have a toll on anyone. If anything one could say this is a glossy portrait compared to the harsh reality of the truth. I felt it very touching how losing her dad even at his late age really impacted her. Losing your parents is a benchmark in everyone's life. Her dad lived a very long life and got to see her on top of the world. Yet the reality is it still really hurt her. The band stopped their world tour and took 3 months off when Chris's dad passed. When Mick's mother passed during OWTS the band never cancelled or postponed one date. Mick was playing the next night. When Robin died, the band kept the Mirage tour going. Chris's outlook totally changed with her dad's passing. With all the hurt Chris went through, the reality is its almost impossible to write the truth yet not be too realistic. In everyone's life no matter how wonderful they are or were there were benchmarks and tough times. As they say, what does not kill you makes you stronger. IMHO this is why Chris was so strong. Its not a story of a weak woman that took advantage of men. Her experiences is what made her a fantastic writer and even better band mate. But we have to realize even in our heroes or heroines there are times they falter. I will never forget the story on Bob Welch's website that told the story of him running into Lindsey shortly after Bob left the band. Lindsey asked Bob, "how the hell did you stand to be around these people?"

[Penguin Emeritus]

I think we would need to read more to jump to conclusions about the author. Was she not Chris's friend? I don't see anything negative towards Chris at all. If anything it makes Chris very human and vulnerable. We all wondered the hell she went through with John and how she coped. Could you imagine what someone really could have written even the blunt truth that would leave people gasping. I found this heartfelt showing her struggles not just as a woman but as a human being. All of this would have a toll on anyone. If anything one could say this is a glossy portrait compared to the harsh reality of the truth. I felt it very touching how losing her dad even at his late age really impacted her. Losing your parents is a benchmark in everyone's life. Her dad lived a very long life and got to see her on top of the world. Yet the reality is it still really hurt her. The band stopped their world tour and took 3 months off when Chris's dad passed. When Mick's mother passed during OWTS the band never cancelled or postponed one date. Mick was playing the next night. When Robin died, the band kept the Mirage tour going. Chris's outlook totally changed with her dad's passing. With all the hurt Chris went through, the reality is its almost impossible to write the truth yet not be too realistic. In everyone's life no matter how wonderful they are or were there were benchmarks and tough times. As they say, what does not kill you makes you stronger. IMHO this is why Chris was so strong. Its not a story of a weak woman that took advantage of men. Her experiences is what made her a fantastic writer and even better band mate. But we have to realize even in our heroes or heroines there are times they falter. I will never forget the story on Bob Welch's website that told the story of him running into Lindsey shortly after Bob left the band. Lindsey asked Bob, "how the hell did you stand to be around these people?"

This is true, I don't want to judge the whole book before I've read it. Jones was her friend but probably more of an 'occasional' friend, and also she interviewed her several times... I guess for me it's just a bit strange to imagine a close friend 'interviewing' her. and Chris obviously knew she was a journalist, which may have impacted how much/what she shared with her..?

But regardless, any new tidbits of info i can learn, i will eat up like candy. This excerpt is so interesting just because it's about a time period that Chris has said verrrry little about previously. it's great to get a peek at how she viewed things...her marriage, her parents' expectations, her affair etc. and i do think she was a strong person who handled a lot of pain in her life in terms of relationships.

That line about just being 'john's missus and not a person in my own right' was so revealing, it shows she kind of had that 50s/60s mentality of a wife sort of being an extension of her husband? very traditional. i wonder if women at that time in the UK were even allowed to open bank accounts on their own, because here in the US that only happened in 1974. maybe she felt financially trapped in a way as well? that line really hit me, i suppose, because i know that money was a huge concern of mine when i got divorced, how could i support myself after so many years of being home w kids and 'dependent' on a husband etc. it's scary to make the jump from financial security to who knows what. and also weird when relatives learn of things you did when you were miserable and desperate. been there done that haha

anyway now i'm rambling lol

--Lis

[bombaysaffires]

"friend"...or acquaintance? If "friend" certainly not a CLOSE friend it seems. A few drinking sessions with some stories told doesn't make you a real "friend". So who knows.

I heard Spare Me A Little today and all this got me thinking who it was about... "you must know you have certain charms.. and I feel the time is right" :shrug:

[Macfan4life]

This is true, I don't want to judge the whole book before I've read it. Jones was her friend but probably more of an 'occasional' friend, and also she interviewed her several times... I guess for me it's just a bit strange to imagine a close friend 'interviewing' her. and Chris obviously knew she was a journalist, which may have impacted how much/what she shared with her..?

But regardless, any new tidbits of info i can learn, i will eat up like candy. This excerpt is so interesting just because it's about a time period that Chris has said verrrry little about previously. it's great to get a peek at how she viewed things...her marriage, her parents' expectations, her affair etc. and i do think she was a strong person who handled a lot of pain in her life in terms of relationships.

That line about just being 'john's missus and not a person in my own right' was so revealing, it shows she kind of had that 50s/60s mentality of a wife sort of being an extension of her husband? very traditional. i wonder if women at that time in the UK were even allowed to open bank accounts on their own, because here in the US that only happened in 1974. maybe she felt financially trapped in a way as well? that line really hit me, i suppose, because i know that money was a huge concern of mine when i got divorced, how could i support myself after so many years of being home w kids and 'dependent' on a husband etc. it's scary to make the jump from financial security to who knows what. and also weird when relatives learn of things you did when you were miserable and desperate. been there done that haha

anyway now i'm rambling lol

--Lis
Nothing that was in this segment was surprising or really new. Its pretty much what we already knew about Chris just with details to back that up. We knew John was a bad alcoholic. We knew about her affair with Martin. We knew Chris was conservative and a bit traditionalist and not a feminist. We would know her dad's death was hard on her but we get more details to back that up. The details in the story just connect the dots in a respectful way. Its possible since Chris knew she was a journalist she may have said, when I go you can say these things. If you use statement analysis on that Eddy comment is very revealing. The distain for Eddy was loud and clear. When people especially women are hurt by men that feeling stays. He was a rat period. There is no looking back and saying, "oh he was so nice in the beginning, blah blah blah." She was still so hurt by him that she even cast shade as casting the marriage in the mid 80s a mistake. That for sure was a real time statement when they were both alive. We know she was miserable during The Dance. She did not want to tour. She reluctantly recorded with the band. Her marriage to Eddy was shot and she just wanted to get back to England. You know how miserable she was? It was probably the only time in her life and career that she told Mick NO.

[Villavic]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/christine-mcvie-affairs-dented-self-191500126.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

That same year, Christine met and fell hopelessly for “The One”, Beach Boys drummer Dennis Wilson. The notorious, four-times-married, hell-raising womaniser was so wrong for her that she couldn’t let him go. She believed that she could fix him.

By the way, do you know what did Dennis think about Hold Me? Is there any article of him commenting about the song?

[aleuzzi]

By the way, do you know what did Dennis think about Hold Me? Is there any article of him commenting about the song?

Not sure if he knew it was about him. On Mirage, it’s “Only Over You” that is explicitly dedicated to him “with inspiration.” I wonder what he thought of that…

[bombaysaffires]

Speaking of Spare Me a Little, great little clip from the white album days:

https://x.com/steviest0rms/status/1857534748324696240

[SteveMacD]

I like how she beats around the bush without directly addressing the elephant in the room, at least in what was posted.

John becoming a father in February, 1989, while she was in an unhappy marriage and then losing her dad less than a year and a half later had to be hell. I’m not saying she resented or wasn’t thrilled for John and his family, but by August, 1990, Christine was definitely “jumpin’ at shadows, thinkin’ ‘bout her life.” For all of her fame and fortune, she really didn’t have much that was intrinsic to show for it.

[Penguin Emeritus]

I like how she beats around the bush without directly addressing the elephant in the room, at least in what was posted.

John becoming a father in February, 1989, while she was in an unhappy marriage and then losing her dad less than a year and a half later had to be hell. I’m not saying she resented or wasn’t thrilled for John and his family, but by August, 1990, Christine was definitely “jumpin’ at shadows, thinkin’ ‘bout her life.” For all of her fame and fortune, she really didn’t have much that was intrinsic to show for it.

I agree, that must have been a tough time for her. It never sounds like she was all that satisfied with her personal life emotionally. and while she had tons of money, that certainly doesn't buy true happiness. IMO it does seem like she hung on to her 2nd marriage way longer than she should have, but she obviously didn't want to be alone. and after ed was gone, it seems that being alone in that house wasn't doing her any favors in terms of her mental health. I wonder if she ever regretted moving during those years...?

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

I agree, that must have been a tough time for her. It never sounds like she was all that satisfied with her personal life emotionally. and while she had tons of money, that certainly doesn't buy true happiness. IMO it does seem like she hung on to her 2nd marriage way longer than she should have, but she obviously didn't want to be alone. and after ed was gone, it seems that being alone in that house wasn't doing her any favors in terms of her mental health. I wonder if she ever regretted moving during those years...?

--Lis
I can see why she did it but no doubt she regretted it later in her life. Restoring an old house in rural England sounds like fun. She knew that she wanted to only do a few more years in the biz. But with BTM being such a disappointment and her father dying really facilitated her exit. She was sort of forced to do Time. She did not want to do it and Warner told Mick they needed one of their famous singers or no deal. Didn't she record tracks from England and send them to the States? She was reluctant to do the Dance and refused to tour Europe. She was unhappy but going to Kent full time really isolated her and made things so much worse. It sounds crazy to say but thank goodness she took that horrible fall that made her have a glimpse of reality and get clean and seek therapy. Stevie also took a brutal fall that made her finally decide to kick klonopin.
The joy she experienced back with the band was tremendous. It truly was a miracle.
Being that BTM sort of bombed made her exit easier though. Imagine if it was a huge success with multiple hit singles. There would have been pressure on her especially from Mick to keep going. Let's not forget. Fleetwood Mac called it quits and had a "Farewell Tour" in late 1990.
A canary in the coal mine of her unhappiness in Kent was that interview she did with a woman to promote ITM. Its that interview with the annoying music in the background. Chris is so out of character. She seems annoyed, impatient, and genuinely not happy like: Lets get this thing over. Making that album was probably so therapeutic for her working with her nephew. It gave her purpose and they made a fantastic album. But I think after that project was done, things got really bad. She even started smoking again.

[Villavic]

Being that BTM sort of bombed made her exit easier though. Imagine if it was a huge success with multiple hit singles. There would have been pressure on her especially from Mick to keep going.

That makes me think of another what if. What if Lindsey had never left the band? Instead of BTM there would have been a much better album, probably in 1990 or thereabouts. I think after that album Christine would have gone on hiatus though. And with Stevie in bad shape in those years, there probably wouldn't have been another album until The Dance. Who knows.

[Macfan4life]

That makes me think of another what if. What if Lindsey had never left the band? Instead of BTM there would have been a much better album, probably in 1990 or thereabouts. I think after that album Christine would have gone on hiatus though. And with Stevie in bad shape in those years, there probably wouldn't have been another album until The Dance. Who knows.
If that scenario happened and Lindsey stayed around in the early 90s, I doubt there would have been The Dance. The band would have broken up and wanted nothing to do with each other. Lindsey's, Chris's, and Stevie's break from the band sort of allowed them to regroup and call it a reunion even though most people did not realize the band was still doing things without them. I remember during the inauguration it was a bit insulting when people kept saying the band reunited for the first time in a decade. It just had a different guitarist.
It also helped that Stevie's solo career hit a wall and Lindsey's solo career was not successful. The Dance made everyone happy except for maybe Chris.

[aleuzzi]

I think we would need to read more to jump to conclusions about the author. Was she not Chris's friend? I don't see anything negative towards Chris at all. If anything it makes Chris very human and vulnerable. We all wondered the hell she went through with John and how she coped. Could you imagine what someone really could have written even the blunt truth that would leave people gasping. I found this heartfelt showing her struggles not just as a woman but as a human being. All of this would have a toll on anyone. If anything one could say this is a glossy portrait compared to the harsh reality of the truth. I felt it very touching how losing her dad even at his late age really impacted her. Losing your parents is a benchmark in everyone's life. Her dad lived a very long life and got to see her on top of the world. Yet the reality is it still really hurt her. The band stopped their world tour and took 3 months off when Chris's dad passed. When Mick's mother passed during OWTS the band never cancelled or postponed one date. Mick was playing the next night. When Robin died, the band kept the Mirage tour going. Chris's outlook totally changed with her dad's passing. With all the hurt Chris went through, the reality is its almost impossible to write the truth yet not be too realistic. In everyone's life no matter how wonderful they are or were there were benchmarks and tough times. As they say, what does not kill you makes you stronger. IMHO this is why Chris was so strong. Its not a story of a weak woman that took advantage of men. Her experiences is what made her a fantastic writer and even better band mate. But we have to realize even in our heroes or heroines there are times they falter. I will never forget the story on Bob Welch's website that told the story of him running into Lindsey shortly after Bob left the band. Lindsey asked Bob, "how the hell did you stand to be around these people?"

Some of my dismissals of the writer and her approach come from her one hour podcast/interview where she sells the same stories and paints the same pictures as this fragment provided here. She has an angle and a mission: I’m not on board with either because it doesn’t appear to come from an authentic connection with Christine. It’s opportunistic and distorted.

[SteveMacD]

Restoring an old house in rural England sounds like fun. She knew that she wanted to only do a few more years in the biz.

I remember she said something along the lines of not wanting to still be doing it at 50 and was 46 at the time.

She was sort of forced to do Time. She did not want to do it and Warner told Mick they needed one of their famous singers or no deal. Didn't she record tracks from England and send them to the States?

She seemed enthusiastic about what became Time during the Inauguration interview, but that’s when they were a four piece with Billy. It wasn’t until Dave Mason came along that she wasn’t happy. As for when her songs were recorded, I’d be willing to bet that those were the demos they did in early 1993 (if not earlier), since Billy was involved with “I Do.”

Let's not forget. Fleetwood Mac called it quits and had a "Farewell Tour" in late 1990.

Slight correction: It was only billed as the last tour with Christine and Stevie. Fleetwood Mac planned to continue with just the guys, with Christine and Stevie still recording with them. However, I recently saw an interview with Mick on YouTube from that time, and even he appreciated how ridiculous it sounded.

A canary in the coal mine of her unhappiness in Kent was that interview she did with a woman to promote ITM. Its that interview with the annoying music in the background. Chris is so out of character. She seems annoyed, impatient, and genuinely not happy like: Lets get this thing over. Making that album was probably so therapeutic for her working with her nephew. It gave her purpose and they made a fantastic album. But I think after that project was done, things got really bad. She even started smoking again.

If it’s the one I’m thinking of, there’s a moment when she’s talking about Mick and John and just kind freezes for a second, like it’s hitting her that she’s not with them anymore.

I think what probably sent Christine over the edge in Kent was that dispute she got into with her neighbors, when paparazzi took pictures of her walking her dogs without any makeup. That was in March, 2010. In March, 2012, Ken said Christine told him his book restored her passion for the music. In March, 2013, she was flying to Hawaii with Mick. And, in March, 2014, she appeared with Fleetwood Mac on the Today show to officially announce her return.

[Macfan4life]

I remember she said something along the lines of not wanting to still be doing it at 50 and was 46 at the time.



She seemed enthusiastic about what became Time during the Inauguration interview, but that’s when they were a four piece with Billy. It wasn’t until Dave Mason came along that she wasn’t happy. As for when her songs were recorded, I’d be willing to bet that those were the demos they did in early 1993 (if not earlier), since Billy was involved with “I Do.”



Slight correction: It was only billed as the last tour with Christine and Stevie. Fleetwood Mac planned to continue with just the guys, with Christine and Stevie still recording with them. However, I recently saw an interview with Mick on YouTube from that time, and even he appreciated how ridiculous it sounded.



If it’s the one I’m thinking of, there’s a moment when she’s talking about Mick and John and just kind freezes for a second, like it’s hitting her that she’s not with them anymore.

I think what probably sent Christine over the edge in Kent was that dispute she got into with her neighbors, when paparazzi took pictures of her walking her dogs without any makeup. That was in March, 2010. In March, 2012, Ken said Christine told him his book restored her passion for the music. In March, 2013, she was flying to Hawaii with Mick. And, in March, 2014, she appeared with Fleetwood Mac on the Today show to officially announce her return.
Slight correction.
When the band regrouped after taking several months off because of Chris's father, the tour was rebranded "The Farewell Tour." My concert T-shirt said that too. It was announced Chris and Stevie were no longer touring with the band. Yes we know the band went on without them but I am not the one that named it the Farewell Tour. The band did. All or most of the cancelled dates were made up. It was even advertised in the newspaper and announced on the radio it was the Farewell Tour. There was no opening act like on the BTM tour.

[SteveMacD]

Slight correction.
When the band regrouped after taking several months off because of Chris's father, the tour was rebranded "The Farewell Tour." My concert T-shirt said that too. It was announced Chris and Stevie were no longer touring with the band. Yes we know the band went on without them but I am not the one that named it the Farewell Tour. The band did. All or most of the cancelled dates were made up. It was even advertised in the newspaper and announced on the radio it was the Farewell Tour. There was no opening act like on the BTM tour.

Here’s that video. Mick talks about it at the 15 minute mark. https://youtu.be/7gK8jIOJSP8

How would that have worked? https://youtu.be/Z17-5yrN56U

[Macfan4life]

Here’s that video. Mick talks about it at the 15 minute mark. https://youtu.be/7gK8jIOJSP8

How would that have worked? https://youtu.be/Z17-5yrN56U
Steve
I am not sure what your point is. Of course we all know the band played on post 1990. I had tickets for the BTM tour in July 1990 which was cancelled and rescheduled for November. When it was rescheduled, the opening act was dropped and the marketing of these made up dates was "The Farewell tour"
That is all I am saying. That is a fact. Of course we know Mick kept the band running in various formations until 7 years later. At the end of that night in 1990, I was convinced it was the last time I would ever see them perform. There is a reason Lindsey joined them on stage for the last night. It was a token of going full circle and closing out an era.

[Villavic]

How would that have worked? https://youtu.be/Z17-5yrN56U

Good cover. It seems more like a tribute band.

And what happened with the aircon???

[Penguin Emeritus]

Good cover. It seems more like a tribute band.

And what happened with the aircon???

lol i know, dear god, poor billy was just sweating in sheets. why do artists usually wear long sleeves when they know how hot they're gonna get? i never understand that. but i'm a person who's always hot, so...

--Lis

[SteveMacD]

Steve
I am not sure what your point is. Of course we all know the band played on post 1990. I had tickets for the BTM tour in July 1990 which was cancelled and rescheduled for November. When it was rescheduled, the opening act was dropped and the marketing of these made up dates was "The Farewell tour"
That is all I am saying. That is a fact.

My point is it wasn’t a farewell tour, regardless of how your local media was promoting it. It’s understandable why the media would say that, since Fleetwood Mac going on without Christine, Stevie, and Lindsey was out there.

However, this interview was conducted towards the end of the tour. Mick even says the last show with Christine and Stevie was going to be on December 7, Pearl Harbor Day. After that, the plan was for the guys to start working on a new album in six months. Does that sound like he thought it was a farewell tour?

[bombaysaffires]

The media doesn't make up the tee shirts sold at the shows. If the band had merch tables selling "Farewell Tour" shirts, then that isn't the local media calling it that out of nowhere; that's the band branding it as such and the media picking up on it.

[Macfan4life]

My point is it wasn’t a farewell tour, regardless of how your local media was promoting it. It’s understandable why the media would say that, since Fleetwood Mac going on without Christine, Stevie, and Lindsey was out there.

However, this interview was conducted towards the end of the tour. Mick even says the last show with Christine and Stevie was going to be on December 7, Pearl Harbor Day. After that, the plan was for the guys to start working on a new album in six months. Does that sound like he thought it was a farewell tour?
Steve
It was not the local media. It was stamped on the tour by the band. They were honest with fans. Chris and Stevie are not performing with the band anymore. In the newspaper in the entertainment section announcing bands coming to town there was a block announcing Fleetwood Mac with "Farewell tour" right at the top. I had to go buy tickets again because it was at a different venue. It was supposed to be in an Ampitheater in the summer. Now it was in an arena in late fall. Not sure why this is a big deal to you. Both Cher and Ozzy had "farewell tours" in the 1990s and still toured for 15 years. After the tour resumed, Chris even dropped Save Me (BTM's only minor hit) from the set and replaced it with Say You Love Me. IMHO that shows some nostalgia on her part before hanging up her live gigs. Both things are not mutually exclusive. You keep saying Mick wanted to keep the band going. No doubt that was true. Call it a marketing gimmick to get more fans to the shows then. Stevie's Timespace record was delayed because of this 1990 tour that never ended. She had already had her fight with Mick and was leaving the band. I was there. It was very sad to me because I thought it was the end. Both things can be the truth at the same time. You think it was just a fluke to have Lindsey there the final night? Do you really think he would have been there if Chris's dad had not died and the BTM tour ended in August?
On another note, you mentioned Chris promoting Time during the Superbowl or some appearance claiming she was excited about doing a new album. Of course she was going to say that. You think she was going to say anything otherwise. Are you disputing that Warner Brothers demanded her or no deal? She went on the record later on how much she despised a certain guitarist and recorded tracks with different musicians and sent them to the band. If you think these are examples of being joyful and wanting to record with the band, that is your opinion. She was fulfilling her obligation to Mick. In her 1995 live chat interview she stated her touring was behind her and was not going to perform again. The fact that these 6 people NEVER again performed on stage together after this tour indicates it was a goodbye or farewell tour, no?

[David]

I attended the December 6 show in San Francisco. Lindsey performed there, too. Felt very final to me, but nobody knew for sure.

[SteveMacD]

“I never saw this interview before but its fascinating. Mick is promoting his book while still in the final months of touring in 1990. He talks about his affair with Stevie, him falling in love with a catfish imposter and telling Sara about it, and throwing dildos around the stage in the early days.

You can see he is not happy talking about Chris and Stevie playing their "final" show with the band in just a few weeks . He sees no sense in it at all and you can see how frustrated he is about it.” -Macfan4life, 08-12-2022

Christine and Stevie not playing live with the band was the only “farewell” part of the tour. Furthermore, in this same interview, ”while still in the final months of touring in 1990”, he says the band isn’t breaking up and the guys were going back into the studio in six months.

[SteveMacD]

On another note, you mentioned Chris promoting Time during the Superbowl or some appearance claiming she was excited about doing a new album.
I’m talking about the press conference Mick, John, Christine, and Lindsey did before the Inauguration in January, 1993.

Fleetwood Mac was currently Mick, John, Christine, and Billy at that time. Chris said that they were going back into the studio in a few weeks. Bekka and Dave hadn’t yet joined.

Are you disputing that Warner Brothers demanded her or no deal? She went on the record later on how much she despised a certain guitarist and recorded tracks with different musicians and sent them to the band.
Billy left in the early Spring, 1993, Bekka joined in late Spring, Dave joined by October, and Billy rejoined in Spring, 1994. Christine pulled out when things got bad between her and Dave (as did Richard). The band submitted an album without any of her songs in early 1995 and the label rejected it.

My speculation is that Mick, John, and Christine recorded demos in early 1993 with Michael Thompson. Billy also contributed guitar to “I Do” and maybe vocals. Christine “didn’t want to do the album” after it became something else and Mick “coaxing her to do the album” was him demanding to put the work they’d done with Michael Thompson in 1993 on the album to be done with it. By that point, the Rumours reunion was imminent.

[Macfan4life]

Some of my dismissals of the writer and her approach come from her one hour podcast/interview where she sells the same stories and paints the same pictures as this fragment provided here. She has an angle and a mission: I’m not on board with either because it doesn’t appear to come from an authentic connection with Christine. It’s opportunistic and distorted.
She has written biographies of Freddie Mercury and David Bowie. She does not use scandal to sell books. Chris had to know she was going to do a bio of her based on her other books of Brits in music. I think Chris was smart enough not to tell her anything she did not want public. I read another excerpt that said Chris actually protested Stevie joining the band. Chris had never played with another woman before and did not think it would work. But Chris met Stevie and they had good chemistry.

[cbBen]

A "farewell" could, theoretically, mean the band bidding "farewell" to Stevie and to Christine; not disbanding altogether.

But how does any interpretation of saying "farewell" to Stevie in 1990 jive with Stevie saying she left the band in 1991 (or 1992?) due to Mick refusing to let her use "Silver Springs" for a solo compilation (whether it was in fact Mick's call or not)?

[Villavic]

A "farewell" could, theoretically, mean the band bidding "farewell" to Stevie and to Christine; not disbanding altogether.

But how does any interpretation of saying "farewell" to Stevie in 1990 jive with Stevie saying she left the band in 1991 (or 1992?) due to Mick refusing to let her use "Silver Springs" for a solo compilation (whether it was in fact Mick's call or not)?

Only if Stevie's farewell meant a farewell to tours, but not to record albums. And then the SS episode was the last straw and she said a total goodbye to the band.

[aleuzzi]

She has written biographies of Freddie Mercury and David Bowie. She does not use scandal to sell books. Chris had to know she was going to do a bio of her based on her other books of Brits in music. I think Chris was smart enough not to tell her anything she did not want public. I read another excerpt that said Chris actually protested Stevie joining the band. Chris had never played with another woman before and did not think it would work. But Chris met Stevie and they had good chemistry.

Sorry, I’m not convinced. Even if she’s done bios before, I have a hard time believing a writer who says Christine’s main reason for leaving in 1998 is discovering that Stevie had an affair with Dennis while he was with Christine. The interview the writer gave did not strike me as authentically motivated.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Sorry, I’m not convinced. Even if she’s done bios before, I have a hard time believing a writer who says Christine’s main reason for leaving in 1998 is discovering that Stevie had an affair with Dennis while he was with Christine. The interview the writer gave did not strike me as authentically motivated.

I have to agree with this. all that sounded sort of ludicrous. even if it had happened, it would have all been so far in the past...chris had bigger fish to fry by then. none of these people had lived virtuous lives of fidelity. i feel like Jones maybe had a few good deep conversations with chris over many years and then tried to write a book with some of those details as well as stuff anyone can google, but she needed 'something big' to kind of get people's attention so she threw in this weird claim..?

i wonder what stevie thinks about it, to be honest. i wonder if even she was like, 'oh, this is such BS.'

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

I have to agree with this. all that sounded sort of ludicrous. even if it had happened, it would have all been so far in the past...chris had bigger fish to fry by then. none of these people had lived virtuous lives of fidelity. i feel like Jones maybe had a few good deep conversations with chris over many years and then tried to write a book with some of those details as well as stuff anyone can google, but she needed 'something big' to kind of get people's attention so she threw in this weird claim..?

i wonder what stevie thinks about it, to be honest. i wonder if even she was like, 'oh, this is such BS.'

--Lis

Thanks, Lis. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking along these very same lines.

[Macfan4life]

I have to agree with this. all that sounded sort of ludicrous. even if it had happened, it would have all been so far in the past...chris had bigger fish to fry by then. none of these people had lived virtuous lives of fidelity. i feel like Jones maybe had a few good deep conversations with chris over many years and then tried to write a book with some of those details as well as stuff anyone can google, but she needed 'something big' to kind of get people's attention so she threw in this weird claim..?

i wonder what stevie thinks about it, to be honest. i wonder if even she was like, 'oh, this is such BS.'

--Lis
No one knows for sure but is it not such a unique detail that it could be true? These were not normal people. They were very entitled, self absorbed, drug addicts. The bat s**t crazy stuff Stevie has done and you dont believe one more affair? Stevie married her dead best friend's husband and then went immediately on tour with her drug addict boyfriend. So I am a bit amused at your description it would be "ludicrous" . In 1990 Joe Walsh was on Rockline telling the world that Stevie thought a Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial was the latest Prince video on MTV. Stevie admitted herself the only reason her and Mick had an affair was because they were the biggest partiers and were still up when everyone went to bed. They still did it without care of the consequences for the band. Drugs fuel these horrible decisions. I sort of see the reality that Stevie and Dennis could have been up well after a party and things happened. This is what Dennis did. He was an extreme womanizer. Its what they all did so I am confused at people questioning of all the insane stuff with Fleetwood Mac, this is a bridge too far?
Can you imagine the things we don't know? I see this as Chris knowing someday this will come out when she was gone and letting the world know but also Stevie know she knew. Of all the crazy stuff that Stevie did that we may not know, this would be the most believable allegation of them all :lol:
The tensions in the band 1982 were intense. Short tour, never appearing in the Hold Me video together, etc. Chris even took a swipe at Stevie in the media in 1984. Could this be just one of the reasons? But with all these affairs and craziness I can imagine it was so much water under the bridge which is why Chris may have revealed it as just one more affair between the band aka just another day in Fleetwood Mac. It true, I don't think Stevie would ever admit it. Remember when Stevie threatened Mick with a lawsuit about his book? Can you imagine the insane and crazy stuff he really could have written? IMHO this completely fits the pattern of Stevie, Dennis and the band.

[Penguin Emeritus]

No one knows for sure but is it not such a unique detail that it could be true? These were not normal people. They were very entitled, self absorbed, drug addicts. The bat s**t crazy stuff Stevie has done and you dont believe one more affair? Stevie married her dead best friend's husband and then went immediately on tour with her drug addict boyfriend. So I am a bit amused at your description it would be "ludicrous" . In 1990 Joe Walsh was on Rockline telling the world that Stevie thought a Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial was the latest Prince video on MTV. Stevie admitted herself the only reason her and Mick had an affair was because they were the biggest partiers and were still up when everyone went to bed. They still did it without care of the consequences for the band. Drugs fuel these horrible decisions. I sort of see the reality that Stevie and Dennis could have been up well after a party and things happened. This is what Dennis did. He was an extreme womanizer. Its what they all did so I am confused at people questioning of all the insane stuff with Fleetwood Mac, this is a bridge too far?
Can you imagine the things we don't know? I see this as Chris knowing someday this will come out when she was gone and letting the world know but also Stevie know she knew. Of all the crazy stuff that Stevie did that we may not know, this would be the most believable allegation of them all :lol:
The tensions in the band 1982 were intense. Short tour, never appearing in the Hold Me video together, etc. Chris even took a swipe at Stevie in the media in 1984. Could this be just one of the reasons? But with all these affairs and craziness I can imagine it was so much water under the bridge which is why Chris may have revealed it as just one more affair between the band aka just another day in Fleetwood Mac. It true, I don't think Stevie would ever admit it. Remember when Stevie threatened Mick with a lawsuit about his book? Can you imagine the insane and crazy stuff he really could have written? IMHO this completely fits the pattern of Stevie, Dennis and the band.

I'm not saying it would be ludricrous that stevie slept with dennis. it just seems unlikely that A. chris would not have known about that at the time/would not have suspected dennis slept with everyone in their circles, and B. that it annoyed her enough all those years later to quit over it.

but i guess anything is possible w these people...maybe she did complain about it at some point and jones just went with it.



--Lis

[Villavic]

Sorry, I’m not convinced. Even if she’s done bios before, I have a hard time believing a writer who says Christine’s main reason for leaving in 1998 is discovering that Stevie had an affair with Dennis while he was with Christine. The interview the writer gave did not strike me as authentically motivated.

I agree with you too. I just thought, so Lindsey didn't leave the band when she found out about Stevie and Mick, but Christine left the band because of that alleged D&S thing?

And it was 1998 when she supposedly learned about it. They were sober so decisions were not made in an insane, drug-addled state of mind. I don't buy it.

[Macfan4life]

I'm not saying it would be ludricrous that stevie slept with dennis. it just seems unlikely that A. chris would not have known about that at the time/would not have suspected dennis slept with everyone in their circles, and B. that it annoyed her enough all those years later to quit over it.

but i guess anything is possible w these people...maybe she did complain about it at some point and jones just went with it.

--Lis

--Lis
I don't think the revelation (if true) is a reflection of Chris or the author. Its a reflection of Stevie/Dennis and the insanity of the band. I see it a different way. If it did happen would it not be seen as a huge mistake and kept secret? I can sort of see finding out about it later (even though so much time passed) would sort of irritate you like seriously? Nothing is sacred? IMHO its so believable because of the patterns of these people. I see the delay in finding out makes the allegation stronger, not weaker. Regardless if true or not, we will never know for sure. The author has not been accused of faking stories of David Bowie or Freddie Mercury.
I can see Chris being hurt. Was it the reason she left in 1998? No, I would say it was not the only reason. But the totality of her fear of flying, her marriage falling apart, the earthquake in LA, and just wanting to get out of the biz. As Lindsey would always say "it just was one more of those things"
If Stevie and Dennis slept together in some drug fueled late night shin dig, I see it completely reasonable they were the only ones that knew about that at the time and it was a regretted secret between the two. But as the years go on, those secrets do leak out. I can imagine there are far more stories of betrayal between these band members than Stevie and Dennis.
For instance, you dont think Mick knew where all the missing money went on the Tusk tour? I would not put it past him he robbed them blind with the intention of doing so. We all have deep dark secrets between family and friends that we sometimes go to the grave with. But sometimes they do leak out.
I suppose I am a bit confused that many are surprised at this to the extent they dont believe it? If it happened, of course it would upset Chris whether she found out in 1980 or 1997. Of everything that has been written about this band, this is the least surprising and interesting IMHO. On another thread we were discussing how Prince was telling his assistants to keep Stevie away from him with the way she was dancing, flirting, and lifting up her dress.
I say this with all sincerity. I love this board and all of its posters. These conversations about mostly a distant band are amazing. As David said once, there is more drama here than ever was in Fleetwood Mac. But its times like this that I swear I am on another band's message board. We are seriously discussing affairs of Fleetwood Mac's band members and find them unbelievable? Or if once they are discovered there would be a sense of betrayal afterwards? This is what made Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac. They relished in the fact that everyone was sleeping with everyone. Sometimes in life the longer a secret is held, the more damaging it can be. Its like when a child was never told they were adopted but find out when they are well into adulthood. Stevie and Mick's affair was found out in real time. I just see that such a fling between Dennis and Stevie had much more power if discovered so much later in life especially after one's passing.
Someone once wrote: A wound gets worse when treated with neglect

I may have the minority opinion but hear me out. I think Chris was the smart one here. No way in hell would I believe Chris is having lunch with a woman who has done biographies about iconic British rock stars without knowing what she tells her will make it to a book. An author would never reveal that kind of info what kind of agreement they had. When Chris found out about the affair I doubt she confronted Stevie. It would make no sense to do so. It was water under the bridge. But I see this as Chris letting Stevie know and the world know she knew about this betrayal. That was her entire point and its got to sting Stevie. I would not go as far as its Chris's middle finger to Stevie but like a good mannered Brit, she kept this to herself because it has been so long and senseless. But no doubt its got to sting Stevie which I think was the point. Chris may have also exaggerated the irritation claiming it was a reason she left in 1998 to make it sting and hurt even more.
But at the end of the day if this is the only juicy thing in the book, we are in for a boring book and most of the stuff we are already going to know. But Chris was smart, no way I think she was naive to think she was just talking over tea. All of this is on purpose. If we believe how these affairs both her and John were having had an impact on her then why would be believe something like this wouldn't. I just cant believe you can take chapters of a book and say which ones you believe. I find what I have read very heartfelt.

[bombaysaffires]

Are people misreading/misunderstanding/misrepresenting other people's comments on here on purpose....or are they just unable to read?

The comment has been made numerous times that Christine would NOT have been surprised that Dennis had slept with other women while he was with her, and she would NOT have been surprised that one of them was Stevie. It is also no surprise to anyone on this board who has any ounce of awareness about this band (ie, not slavish worshippers).

The idea that this news would, in 1998, push Christine to leave the band is the nutty part. Sure it could have been one more brick in the wall (assuming she didn't already know about it).... but Chris was longing to go back to England and get a break from LA/the band/showbiz for a long time and by then had far bigger things going on in her life than an old affair, even if the affair had been hurtful to her back when it happened.

[Penguin Emeritus]

I don't think the revelation (if true) is a reflection of Chris or the author. Its a reflection of Stevie/Dennis and the insanity of the band. I see it a different way. If it did happen would it not be seen as a huge mistake and kept secret? I can sort of see finding out about it later (even though so much time passed) would sort of irritate you like seriously? Nothing is sacred? IMHO its so believable because of the patterns of these people. I see the delay in finding out makes the allegation stronger, not weaker. Regardless if true or not, we will never know for sure. The author has not been accused of faking stories of David Bowie or Freddie Mercury.
I can see Chris being hurt. Was it the reason she left in 1998? No, I would say it was not the only reason. But the totality of her fear of flying, her marriage falling apart, the earthquake in LA, and just wanting to get out of the biz. As Lindsey would always say "it just was one more of those things"
If Stevie and Dennis slept together in some drug fueled late night shin dig, I see it completely reasonable they were the only ones that knew about that at the time and it was a regretted secret between the two. But as the years go on, those secrets do leak out. I can imagine there are far more stories of betrayal between these band members than Stevie and Dennis.



I guess i just find it hard to swallow that chris hadn't known/suspected this before, knowing that dennis screwed anything that moved, and stevie made the rounds as well. i mean, like you said, wouldn't it have been just one more thing? none of them were particularly devoted to fidelity esp in those crazy drugged out years.... not something to leave the band over but i guess that's just my perspective.

FWIW chris also knew that her good friend sandra slept with john both in 1974 and 1976 and yet always remained friends w her--- she let her move in after sandra couldn't take living w john anymore! chris also knew about a person very close to her who had a long affair with ed, and chris ultimately remained friends with this person after the marriage had ended. so i guess i see her as rather forgiving, maybe more the type to just let it be water under the bridge after a certain point? chris herself has said "nothing would surprise her in this band".

now....whether or not she mentioned this to jones as a way to possibly give a little dig at stevie...that could be interesting :laugh:

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

Are people misreading/misunderstanding/misrepresenting other people's comments on here on purpose....or are they just unable to read?

The comment has been made numerous times that Christine would NOT have been surprised that Dennis had slept with other women while he was with her, and she would NOT have been surprised that one of them was Stevie. It is also no surprise to anyone on this board who has any ounce of awareness about this band (ie, not slavish worshippers).

The idea that this news would, in 1998, push Christine to leave the band is the nutty part. Sure it could have been one more brick in the wall (assuming she didn't already know about it).... but Chris was longing to go back to England and get a break from LA/the band/showbiz for a long time and by then had far bigger things going on in her life than an old affair, even if the affair had been hurtful to her back when it happened.

This part^^^ Everyone had known that Stevie slept with Dennis. That part is true. But, to make **** up and say that's why she left the band is just insane. That's the ludicrous part. And we won't all go insane, together. (together gether gether gethergether gether gether)

[aleuzzi]

Sadly, when I google Christine now choice "quotes" from this biography come up. Headlines about how "sad" and "lonely" Christine was. How affairs "dented her self respect," etc.

It's bad enough we lost her. Now this vulture gets to swoop in and profit off bs...

[SteveMacD]

FWIW chris also knew that her good friend sandra slept with john both in 1974 and 1976 and yet always remained friends w her--- she let her move in after sandra couldn't take living w john anymore!

Sandra was Peter Green’s partner during his Fleetwood Mac time -even played recorder on “Oh Well, pt 2”- until after he left and is now married to Larry Vigon.

[jbrownsjr]

Sadly, when I google Christine now choice "quotes" from this biography come up. Headlines about how "sad" and "lonely" Christine was. How affairs "dented her self respect," etc.

It's bad enough we lost her. Now this vulture gets to swoop in and profit off bs...

I feel like Mick should say something. Anything...

[aleuzzi]

I feel like Mick should say something. Anything...

This is one of those times when Stevie could use her celebrity power for good and shut that shiz dooooown.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Sandra was Peter Green’s partner during his Fleetwood Mac time -even played recorder on “Oh Well, pt 2”- until after he left and is now married to Larry Vigon.

Oh sure, I know, she had a history with Peter. She was also good friends with the girl John was engaged to before chris, so she technically knew John first. She said for awhile she and her friends didn't like Chris because she'd 'taken John away' from the other woman, but of course eventually sandra and chris became friends, maybe through her connection to Peter...?

Still, though, kind of a crappy move on her part to sleep with Chris's husband at the time...although i'm sure the marriage was in really bad shape by then, but still...that sort of crossed a line imo...but chris forgave it.

--Lis

[Penguin Emeritus]

Sadly, when I google Christine now choice "quotes" from this biography come up. Headlines about how "sad" and "lonely" Christine was. How affairs "dented her self respect," etc.

It's bad enough we lost her. Now this vulture gets to swoop in and profit off bs...

I will say I have heard this same thing from a source who was very close to Chris...as much as we may not like to imagine her sad, I do think she struggled with loneliness a lot. That's not to say she wasn't a dynamic, positive, amazing person who jumped back into life after 2012 and obviously brought so much joy to those around her, but privately, I do think she-- maybe like a lot of older women who find themselves without a permanent partner (and in her case, without children also) -- she could often feel a bit too 'on her own'.

So while i take issue with about a thousand other things in this jones book lol, this particular topic i think may indeed be true, or the impression jones got from whatever time she spent with chris, because i heard that about her long before this book came out.

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

I will say I have heard this same thing from a source who was very close to Chris...as much as we may not like to imagine her sad, I do think she struggled with loneliness a lot. That's not to say she wasn't a dynamic, positive, amazing person who jumped back into life after 2012 and obviously brought so much joy to those around her, but privately, I do think she-- maybe like a lot of older women who find themselves without a permanent partner (and in her case, without children also) -- she could often feel a bit too 'on her own'.

So while i take issue with about a thousand other things in this jones book lol, this particular topic i think may indeed be true, or the impression jones got from whatever time she spent with chris, because i heard that about her long before this book came out.

--Lis

That’s fair. I can believe this is true, to an extent. I even recall Chris saying around 2005 that she was unlucky in love and that it was a real drag. But would she have wanted the world to read about her sadness? And while a lovely melancholy permeates her songs, I believe she also did what productive, creative people do: she turned her feelings into art. I wish that was the lead story.

[SteveMacD]

I even recall Chris saying around 2005 that she was unlucky in love and that it was a real drag.

And then she remembered she was incredibly lucky in rock and roll and that it was pretty, pretty, pretty sweet.

[aleuzzi]

And then she remembered she was incredibly lucky in rock and roll and that it was pretty, pretty, pretty sweet.

Yes—thank you!!!

[Macfan4life]

I will say I have heard this same thing from a source who was very close to Chris...as much as we may not like to imagine her sad, I do think she struggled with loneliness a lot. That's not to say she wasn't a dynamic, positive, amazing person who jumped back into life after 2012 and obviously brought so much joy to those around her, but privately, I do think she-- maybe like a lot of older women who find themselves without a permanent partner (and in her case, without children also) -- she could often feel a bit too 'on her own'.

So while i take issue with about a thousand other things in this jones book lol, this particular topic i think may indeed be true, or the impression jones got from whatever time she spent with chris, because i heard that about her long before this book came out.

--Lis
Its nothing that Chris has not said herself. She has described herself in this dark period in her life. But is that not understandable? I think anyone that isolated themselves in that big house in Kent would definitely feel lonely. Chris's story is so inspiring especially at her age. She could have sat there at her age and faded away only remembering her music career. She pulled herself up, kicked pain pill addiction, got therapy, conquered her fear of flying, recorded an album with Lindsey, and did 2 world tours and a tour with Lindsey. Even though I am biassed, its the most inspiring story of any rock performer ever. We even got a tremendous solo album before things got really dark. Its unbelievable and a celebration of life.
Mick has written about the same groupies he and John shared while Chris fled to a separate house. Nothing is new in this book that deserves pearl clutching. Its interesting how people can read and interpret things differently. I already knew Chris was a strong woman. But I see her even stronger with some vulnerabilities that makes me love her even more. But I think its a bit boring because nothing new is reported or what we would have expected being put in her shoes. There were many women rock pioneers. Chris did not have a sister in a band like Heart. Even before Stevie Chris was a band member of an all men's club touring like crazy. The things she must have seen, witnessed, and experienced really must have been something. IMHO Chris is the bravest and probably the truest woman rock pioneer. She probably would not even acknowledge that. And that is what was so wonderful about Chris.
If there was anything scandalously false or insulting to Chris in the book her brother and family would have already came out to say DONT BUY THIS TRASHY BOOK. None of us have interviewed Chris yet I think we all could have written this book.
Fleetwood Mac members sleep around with everyone
Having numerous affairs does have a psychological impact on someone when you are married in a band
Betrayal of bandmates hurts
Moving to an isolated place can make you depressed
How is that insulting to Chris's legacy. A biography or autobiography of anyone shows peaks and valleys in one's life. Chris was incredibly strong yet pealing back some of her strong persona revealed some vulnerability which only makes me like her more IMHO.