25+ years after The Dance — Was it worth it?

[anusha]

I’ll preferences by saying that I am really glad that they did tour after the dance because I really enjoyed seeing some of those live shows. But better or worse the kind of Spera of Stevie and Lindsey performing their “love affair” As a centerpiece of the stage show And some of the media promo for two decades.

Would things have been better if they just toured after the dance and then didn’t continue? Afterwards, the output from the band was just one big album and then the EP.

Probably the best outcome after the dance was the fact that Lindsey made a number of interesting, solo albums, but maybe those would’ve come out anyway. And chances are Stevie would’ve released a few albums as well over that. With or without Fleetwood Mac.

I think for those of us who who were there are in 1997, there was this thought that the reunion could yield this new period of creativity and material from the band and it kind of didn’t pan out Was there a lot of value to the fans for having the band together together touring for another 30 years?

[HomerMcvie]

We didn't get any new music other than Say You Will(which sucks). BuckVie was a great album from FM, although it lacked the proper moniker.

Christine coming back was the highlight of their last 22 years, at least for me.

[tango87]

BuckVie was a great album from FM, although it lacked the proper moniker.

Christine coming back was the highlight of their last 22 years, at least for me.

Rhino needs to do a deluxe repackaging, renaming it 'On With The Show' by Fleetwood Mac. A proper ending to the saga!

[Villavic]

Going back to 1997, my state of mind was like being in heaven, for seeing a reunion I thought would never happen. I did enjoy the NYC show of course.

Just glad they released SYW, but I didn't feel it as a big album. If it had been kind of a In the Meantime Say You Will, with a better production (maybe with Dashut?) probably I would have enjoyed much more. I even decided not to travel to see them, for Christine absence. But when I went to Dallas in 2009 for job reasons I coincided with them and of course I went. The best of that night was watching Storms live, something I also thought I wouldn't see ever.

[Macfan4life]

Was it worth it for the band? Absolutely. Those were some very lucrative tours post Dance pre OWTS. I feel bad for Lindsey for pushing the band to make SYW and how they protested his decisions only to have the album considered a commercial failure at the time.
Was it worth it for the fans? Thats an open ended question. We got a very creative SYW but the blowback from that made them making new music (without Chris) stop in its tracks. The band became a summer tour oldies play the hits band. For the casual fan it definitely was worth it.
For the die hard fan there were some great moments digging into Tusk for rare live performances of some songs that were never done on a live stage before.
Looking back would it not have been amazing if Chris only took 7 years off instead of 14? That would have solved everything. However that is being greedy because it was a miracle at her age she came back with both feet to give us 3 tours and a BuckVie album.

[BigAl84]

Was it worth it, yes. The way it ended though, really exposed the severity of the rifts that went unresolved between Stevie and Lindsey (and quite frankly, the entire band). In terms of the "good will" amongst the band that was implied and expressed to fans, it's hard not to feel like you've been sold a line of BS for the past 20 years. How quickly the band was willing to revert to their tribe/allies within the band and find ways to justify to themselves what they were doing was simply because "the show must go on" was truly disappointing.

'97 happened out of business and financial reasons. The love fest tour of 2013 was a total sham. The 2014/2015 tour only happened because Christine genuinely wanted to return. After 40 years together did the band still have each others backs, apparently not.

The only genuine reconciliation the band can claim to have is between Christine and John.

[David]

I thought the Dance was worth it to me because it elevated Fleetwood Mac out of the ignominy it had landed in for a decade — with most of the world kind of laughing at the washed-up has-beens — and built a lot of public and professional adulation around them again. The press was back on their side, the public certainly was, and other musicians got on board (like Perry Farrell and Billy Corgan). That entire year put Fleetwood back up in the stratosphere and cemented the legacy of a pinnacle American pop-rock band.

I realize that much of that is superficial, but I was glad to be able to talk about the band without having everyone rib me for being completely out of touch.

[SteveMacD]

What did we get for it?

Fleetwood Mac was, being generous, only active for six years from 1997-2013, releasing only one new album and an EP. It would be different if they had been as consistently active as they were in the five years after Christine came back, especially if LBCM counts as Fleetwood Mac.

Not to suggest the Billy Burnette lineup was preferable, but assuming Christine was still going to retire, they could have replaced Dave Mason with Mick Taylor and gone in a heavier country-blues rock direction centered around Bekka and Billy. We would have had more albums and cheaper shows that were completely live, but Mick would have had to get over the idea of Fleetwood Mac being a platinum selling arena rock band, relying less on the Rumours material, for that to work. So, that was never in the cards, and if you’re just going to play the hits, might as well do that with the OGs and get paid.

[UnwindedDreams]

I feel bad for Lindsey for pushing the band to make SYW and how they protested his decisions only to have the album considered a commercial failure at the time.
We got a very creative SYW but the blowback from that made them making new music (without Chris) stop in its tracks.
Was it a commercial failure? I know albums by legends like The Stones charted at #3 at that time and Macca, Elton and Streisand even lower. Of course, The Eagles had a masterful album release strategy with Walmart in 2007 highlighting that Long Road Out of Eden was the first Eagles album in 25+ years and if I recall, I bought it at a reasonable price.

What I love about Say You Will is that I was able to enjoy 9 Stevie songs on an FM album as well as hearing her do co-lead vocals on Miranda, Peacekeeper, What's The World Coming To, and Goodbye Baby. This is why I love the album. I'm not crazy about Lindsey's songs.

[David]

What did we get for it? Fleetwood Mac was, being generous, only active for six years from 1997-2013, releasing only one new album and an EP.

So six out of seventeen years? Paltry, certainly, but the 1977–1987 phase was barely better — four albums and one live album — and the solo careers didn’t start until 1981.

This band just didn’t put albums out. They did early on, when they put out an album every calendar year (and twice in 1973). That’s probably what drew a lot of us to those earlier years: there was so much music to listen to.

[David]

This is why I love the album.

The only thing I really despise about the album is its engineering and thus probably its mastering. It followed that awful trend that started in the 90s of compressing all the dynamic range out of the tracks. That decision was probably Lindsey and Mark Needham. As far as I’m concerned, it was a fatal blow to the album. That whole approach back then was known as the Loudness Wars. It was extra compression and “brickwall” limiting that turned albums into a solid noise. It was a fatal aesthetic and it got the industry hooked on it. It has ruined a couple of Lindsey solo albums, too. I sometimes feel like slapping him. He seems to have developed an aversion to space, especially in his vocals. (That breathy back-of-the-room quality many of us do not like in his singing is actually an effect of compressing the signal so that he sounds less human and more machine-like.) It destroyed his track “Say Goodbye.” He used to mix older Fleetwood tracks with headroom (back when you couldn’t add compression on every individual channel). Headroom is totally lacking on Say You Will and his last solo album. My understanding of it may be technically imprecise, but the problem is definitely tied to compression. When you flatten dynamic range, you get louder tracks you can play in the car and hear over the highway noise.

[SteveMacD]

So six out of seventeen years? Paltry, certainly, but the 1977–1987 phase was barely better — four albums and one live album — and the solo careers didn’t start until 1981.
They were going nonstop from the moment WBR gave them the green light to make HAHTF in June, 1974, until the end of the Tusk tour in September, 1980. They toured more and spent more time in the studio making much more elaborate albums than the early years.

After that, though, it was kind of pointless.

[David]

They were going nonstop from the moment WBR gave them the green light to make HAHTF in June, 1974, until the end of the Tusk tour in September, 1980. They toured more and spent more time in the studio making much more elaborate albums than the early years.

I’m gonna say that after the Rumours tour in December 1977, they slowed down. They ran on their own timeclocks at that point. They lost any earlier hustle they had. 1978 was a relaxed year for the band — seventeen concerts and the early months of a lengthy studio tenure. The first half of the year was total hiatus. I don’t know anyone inside the band or out who called the Tusk sessions hard work in 1979, but I guess it was work just the same — for Mick, Lindsey, Christine, Ken, and Richard. (“Not That Funny” could have been written, recorded, and mixed in one day, but it probably took them six months to gaze at their navels.) The 1980 tour was heavy activity, so I applaud their hustle.

[Penguin Emeritus]

'97 happened out of business and financial reasons. The love fest tour of 2013 was a total sham. The 2014/2015 tour only happened because Christine genuinely wanted to return. After 40 years together did the band still have each others backs, apparently not.

The only genuine reconciliation the band can claim to have is between Christine and John.

could not agree more with your final statement. not that they were ever on bad terms... but that last decade really brought them back together in an enormous way. They totally found each other again. :xoxo:

even if the 97 reunion was mainly for financial reasons, i'm still glad it happened. at the time, it seemed miraculous, to see those 5 people on a stage together again. to have that tour and those VH1 and MTV specials...i was in heaven.

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

could not agree more with your final statement. not that they were ever on bad terms... but that last decade really brought them back together in an enormous way. They totally found each other again. :xoxo:

even if the 97 reunion was mainly for financial reasons, i'm still glad it happened. at the time, it seemed miraculous, to see those 5 people on a stage together again. to have that tour and those VH1 and MTV specials...i was in heaven.

--Lis

They loved each other from beginning to end. Lots of trouble in the middle... but, the fact that he was there in the end makes my life complete (in a way).

[Penguin Emeritus]

They loved each other from beginning to end. Lots of trouble in the middle... but, the fact that he was there in the end makes my life complete (in a way).

I know, me too. don't make me cry. there was really only a relatively brief period of trouble in the middle but they figured out how to make things work... and figured it out quite well. :rolleyes: who could ask for a more beautiful ending? such a gift to be with the love of your life at the end.

--Lis

[SteveMacD]

Even at its lowest point, I doubt either would have seriously wanted to be in the band without the other. Whatever moments that ever came up like that were, at most, fleeting.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Even at its lowest point, I doubt either would have seriously wanted to be in the band without the other. Whatever moments that ever came up like that were, at most, fleeting.

very true. That's why he needed his kleenex upon her return. he was so glad she was back. she was so relieved he got through his scary bout with cancer. makes a person look at things with a new appreciation.

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

very true. That's why he needed his kleenex upon her return. he was so glad she was back. she was so relieved he got through his scary bout with cancer. makes a person look at things with a new appreciation.

--Lis

It was so telling that when they announced his cancer, she was right there on tour with them in 2013. Makes me weep, too.

[moon]

Oh, of course was it worth! We saw our "favourite" lineup together again, and heard great versions of the classics from that lineup. Some of them, maybe paired or better than the originals (Dreams, Bleed To Love Her, Gypsy, YMLF, Silver Springs...)
It opened the door to the chance to "refresh" FM's history, as it was stagnant in that band with changing members and less success. Was a necessary move to show that the band was not a dinosaur's band, or maybe to show that those dinosaurs were still rocking!
Without The Dance, we would probably saw the solo careers still going, but not a new chapter of the band, and probably Say You Will would never existed. I see less possible a reunion in 2014 if 1997 didn't exist, I mean, with a big hiatus between 1995 and 2014, probably the band could lose the interest on a reunion

[Tusky]

I’ll preferences by saying that I am really glad that they did tour after the dance because I really enjoyed seeing some of those live shows. But better or worse the kind of Spera of Stevie and Lindsey performing their “love affair” As a centerpiece of the stage show And some of the media promo for two decades.

Would things have been better if they just toured after the dance and then didn’t continue? Afterwards, the output from the band was just one big album and then the EP.

Probably the best outcome after the dance was the fact that Lindsey made a number of interesting, solo albums, but maybe those would’ve come out anyway. And chances are Stevie would’ve released a few albums as well over that. With or without Fleetwood Mac.

I think for those of us who who were there are in 1997, there was this thought that the reunion could yield this new period of creativity and material from the band and it kind of didn’t pan out Was there a lot of value to the fans for having the band together together touring for another 30 years?

I think in retrospect, it was period of little disappointments, one after the other. I wish Christine didn't leave, wished SYW was an album of all five and so much more. Oh Well :laugh:

[tothegypsy]

The Dance created an entire new generation of fans at the time...myself included :)

[jbrownsjr]

The Dance created an entire new generation of fans at the time...myself included :)

Yea, it was pretty important for them. It revitalized the entire organization. Goats included.

[aleuzzi]

There are many reasons to neg on The Dance and the large spans of group inactivity that followed, but the 1997 reconvening accomplished many things:

1--It provided a platform for Stevie Nick's second act. She earned her space front and center, looked and sounded great, and essentially introduced FM to a whole new generation of listeners. Key tracks: "Gold Dust Woman"; "Silver Springs"

2--For many, it promoted Lindsey as one fine, original guitar player. We fans did not need a reminder of this, but the general public did. Key tracks: "Big Love"; "My Little Demon"

3--It allowed Christine a graceful exit. She looked and sounded great on tour. And "Temporary One"--regardless of what some think about it--fit in perfectly with new music at the time. Key tracks: YMLF and "Temporary One." And on "Songbird," she sounds magnificent.

4. It allowed Mick and Lindsey to re-forge their bond. Those two are very much connected--the brain and the heart of the band.

[jbrownsjr]

There are many reasons to neg on The Dance and the large spans of group inactivity that followed, but the 1997 reconvening accomplished many things:



3--It allowed Christine a graceful exit. She looked and sounded great on tour. And "Temporary One"--regardless of what some think about it--fit in perfectly with new music at the time. Key tracks: YMLF and "Temporary One." And on "Songbird," she sounds magnificent.



I'm feeling attacked!

[BigAl84]

There was so much waiting involved between '98-'03. Waiting for TISL to actually get released was like watching paint dry. There would be whispers of one time frame for release and then it would get pushed back, again and again.

Waiting to see what would become of Fleetwood Mac after The Dance was a big waiting game, followed by another waiting game as they finished Say You Will.

The single best nugget to come out of that period of waiting is hands down the acoustic performance of Gypsy at the Arizona Heart Institute. I'll argue that is perhaps the best Buckingham Nicks performance/collaboration since '82.

Actually, now that I think about it....when they recorded Without You for the EP, they should have done a studio version of that acoustic arrangement of Gypsy. It would have balanced things out and given Without You a sister track.

[SteveMacD]

There was so much waiting involved between '98-'03.

Waiting to see what would become of Fleetwood Mac after The Dance was a big waiting game, followed by another waiting game as they finished Say You Will.

I still maintain Gift Of Screws should have been released as Buckingham Fleetwood McVie no later than 1999. An offshoot would have been the best way to go if the question was should this be solo or Fleetwood Mac. Then he could have started completely fresh for the Fleetwood Mac album.

[aleuzzi]

I'm feeling attacked!

Temporarily so….

[jbrownsjr]

Temporarily so….

don't you know that a blue lamp will bring us back together..

[mylittledemon]

There are many reasons to neg on The Dance and the large spans of group inactivity that followed, but the 1997 reconvening accomplished many things:


What I really would've liked was that the band had done a new record in 2015 when Chris rejoined the ranks. I am still somewhat in shock that that didn't happen... it was a no-brainer. And they should've filmed something like The Dance with her return to promote said album. :mad:

At this point I really only want two more things before I kak it: 1) A remastered version of The Dance (have ya'll seen the HD vids from Warners on youTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB9Y2LHIT24)?) and 2) for Buckingham Nicks to finally get a decent release CD/vinyl release.

[Villavic]

(have ya'll seen the HD vids from Warners on .

Yes but they are just few songs. I don't understand why they don't release more The Dance songs on YT in HD.

[HomerMcvie]

Yes but they are just few songs. I don't understand why they don't release more The Dance songs on YT in HD.

Because they've always sucked at business. They even hired that idiot drummer as their manager once!

[SteveMacD]

Because they've always sucked at business. They even hired that idiot drummer as their manager once!

The alternative would have been exponentially worse. They recorded Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, and Tusk under Mick’s tutelage. I doubt the last two could have been made if Stevie and Irving had been pulling the strings. Fleetwood Mac really hasn’t had a masterpiece since Tusk.

[HomerMcvie]

The alternative would have been exponentially worse. They recorded Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, and Tusk under Mick’s tutelage. I doubt the last two could have been made if Stevie and Irving had been pulling the strings. Fleetwood Mac really hasn’t had a masterpiece since Tusk.

Their egos shouldn't have been out of control until post Rumours, so I disagree.

[Villavic]

The alternative would have been exponentially worse. They recorded Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, and Tusk under Mick’s tutelage. I doubt the last two could have been made if Stevie and Irving had been pulling the strings. Fleetwood Mac really hasn’t had a masterpiece since Tusk.

Never Irving of course! But if they had had a manager with a Brian Epstein's conflict management skills, the story would have been different. Mick may have had an approach to the band's whims, but his accounting skills were a disaster and the trigger was the small profits after the Tusk tour. So it was logic they looked for different managers in 1982.

[Nathan]

What I really would've liked was that the band had done a new record in 2015 when Chris rejoined the ranks. I am still somewhat in shock that that didn't happen... it was a no-brainer. And they should've filmed something like The Dance with her return to promote said album. :mad:

At this point I really only want two more things before I kak it: 1) A remastered version of The Dance (have ya'll seen the HD vids from Warners on youTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB9Y2LHIT24)?) and 2) for Buckingham Nicks to finally get a decent release CD/vinyl release.

Those were fun, TY. I especially liked the Tusk video. Lindsey's ex is in the front row. Is Glen Parish next to her? And, is that Edward Norton behind her?

[Tusky]

I think definitely on reflection, it feels like L+S both came back to re-route their own solo careers. LB for Gift of Screws and S post Street Angel. At the time I really bought the idea they were selling that the band were a band again and it would start a new chapters of albums and cohesiveness. But alas...it's still gutting to think of what they could have recorded and done in this time.
But I agree, if it didn't happen I don't think the alternative would have been good.
Also my view on Say You Will has changed too. I wish Lindsey was a bit more fluid about the whole thing, in the documentary when I watch it now, he just seems very unmovable re: the mix/production/track listing. I hate it but I sort of get why Stevie didn't want to work in that atmosphere again. Maybe Christine would have helped but then again when she did come back, it sounded like she was more than happy to give up creative control of her demos, which Stevie wasn't.
So inclusion - I'm happy that both The Dance and SYW exist because even those were on a knife edge and one off's.

[billwebster]

I'm thankful for every record they made, so I'm glad the band did this one. It gave them more opportunities to put out more records, both as a band and solo, even though it was just a "temporary one" as far as the popular lineup was concerned.
And yes, I like the "Say You Will" album. Though I did not think it would be their final album when it came out.
But neither did I think Stevie would not create a follow-up to "24 Karat Gold" from its release until today (summer '24).
Yet, there was a lot of other stuff happening in the past 10 years.
Both the comeback through a short Tiktok video and the lockdown from the global health crisis only 4 years ago were not thinkable when these albums came out. Neither was these artists selling off their publishing. Yet, that's how the world was turning.

When "The Dance" came out, the music world was a world of abundance. And you can hear it in its rich arrangements. Nowadays, the lack of income that artists get when you compare what they can make from the sales of yesteryear to the clicks from Spotify unfortunately leaves much to be desired.

[Villavic]

When "The Dance" came out, the music world was a world of abundance. And you can hear it in its rich arrangements.

It was the reunions decade. It came out in the perfect moment. But that's history.

[SteveMacD]

Their egos shouldn't have been out of control until post Rumours, so I disagree.

LOL! Just imagine what would have happened if Lindsey had treated Stevie the way he treated Christine. Imagine if he’d just taken that stupid copy of BD.

Her ego was as insufferable as his from 1985 onward as his was from 77-95.

[HomerMcvie]

LOL! Just imagine what would have happened if Lindsey had treated Stevie the way he treated Christine. Imagine if he’d just taken that stupid copy of BD.

Her ego was as insufferable as his from 1985 onward as his was from 77-95.

But Stevie's an idiot. It's hard to respect an idiot.

[Villavic]

I'm listening The Dance right now, and thought, when Christine said a very old song, Say You Love Me was 22 years old. Now is 49. Old Rumours lineup studio songs are 37 yo or more. Well, even children get older. :(

[bombaysaffires]

LOL! Just imagine what would have happened if Lindsey had treated Stevie the way he treated Christine. Imagine if he’d just taken that stupid copy of BD.

Her ego was as insufferable as his from 1985 onward as his was from 77-95.

Oh her ego blew up looooooooooong before 1985

[HomerMcvie]

Oh her ego blew up looooooooooong before 1985

AMEN. Once Bella Donna took off, not to mention the entire world wanted to F her, her ego was out of control.

She kind of got the life she deserved.

[Macfan4life]

Oh her ego blew up looooooooooong before 1985
There was a 1983 concert review that stated she relied on her sex appeal too much and that her attitude was one that the audience should feel lucky that she even showed up. It also went on to say her band seemed just as confused as her as her concert meandered to a "what ever happened to Stevie Nicks game show" since she drifted off stage so much.
The Wham concert incident in the summer of 1985 showed how out of control her ego was. Their security did not recognize her and she melted down. Andrew came out to rescue her but he said no matter how he tried to calm her it was not working.

[bombaysaffires]

AMEN. Once Bella Donna took off, not to mention the entire world wanted to F her, her ego was out of control.

She kind of got the life she deserved.

Nah it started getting bad in the afterglow of all the Rumours success... there were scraps of the old pre-fame Stevie during the recording of Tusk but even then too many reports from others involved that she would just not show up coz she was out partying or she brought a whole gaggle of hangers-on with her and the "I'm a rockstar" bull****. (I cringed when she said in an interview that Don Henley "taught me how to be a rock star"). Too many people take the few moments we got in the documentary of recording that album (over a year) as representing how it really went most of the time. That was a PR piece by their record company to show them hard at work on this great album. It was not a true "documentary". So of course it doesn't show them screwing around or high as kites or whatever... there was too much of that in the Rosebud footage. The Tusk doc was an attempt at some image control.

Stevie just loved loved loved being famous from the start, it's really what she wanted, her insistence that she just wanted to live on a cliff alone and write songs notwithstanding. She loved it. Lindsey was always seemingly ambivalent about the fame stuff (he liked the perks, not so much the intrusiveness) and the McVies were very British and uncomfortable with all the "me me me" self-absorption of show business. That's what makes Mick kind of more American than Brit in that regard... he was def not opposed to attention and blathering on to the media and the whole "look at me" sh*t. It's why he ended up broke so many times, showing off and all. It seems like with Stevie the toxic combination hit its peak with her increasing addictions and her ego both reaching epic proportions in the 80s (I always think of Paul Fishkin's comment about all the "near overdoses" on the road and literally having to 'scrap her off the floor")

[Penguin Emeritus]

Stevie just loved loved loved being famous from the start, it's really what she wanted, her insistence that she just wanted to live on a cliff alone and write songs notwithstanding. She loved it. Lindsey was always seemingly ambivalent about the fame stuff (he liked the perks, not so much the intrusiveness) and the McVies were very British and uncomfortable with all the "me me me" self-absorption of show business. That's what makes Mick kind of more American than Brit in that regard... he was def not opposed to attention and blathering on to the media and the whole "look at me" sh*t. It's why he ended up broke so many times, showing off and all. It seems like with Stevie the toxic combination hit its peak with her increasing addictions and her ego both reaching epic proportions in the 80s (I always think of Paul Fishkin's comment about all the "near overdoses" on the road and literally having to 'scrap her off the floor")


True that Mick's attitude seemed more 'look at me' American, but I also feel Mick was a true extrovert, whereas john and chris were introverts. Stevie was def extroverted...and Lindsey maybe vacillated between the two.

--Lis

[Villavic]

t I also feel Mick was a true extrovert,

--Lis

After being in his Maui restaurant, I must agree with you.