Article re: Buckingham open to return to FM

[jbrownsjr]

I know this came from the Conan, but here is an article.

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/lindsey-buckingham-would-rejoin-fleetwood-mac-in-a-heartbeat/?fbclid=IwAR2BLgjkkCLlc75IdFfQ_9MGiqKzKsF8tTRrhoyBf1A8kL6lgTIzif8K4s0

[Macfan4life]

Thanks for posting
He has said this before so its not really new. However I see it as another olive branch. I have never wanted to be so wrong. I predicted it would happen as far back as 2018. I hope it does not happen. John probably could not do it. Stevie and Lindsey still could tour and probably Mick too. Its just not Fleetwood Mac without Chris. But I think that time has passed and Stevie realizes her mistake and may want to turn a page in time and give Fleetwood Mac a proper burial goodbye.
I love how much Lindsey has changed over the years and appreciating playing with the Mac. Clearly he has enough money. He does it for the love of playing. Love that. But I am against it and hope it never happens.

[HomerMcvie]

I hope it never happens. John is done, and Chris is dead, and Old Goatsy fired Lindsey. IT'S OVER. ACCEPT IT, Mick.

[SteveMacD]

I find it sad in a pathetic kind of way that he’s still talking about being open to a reunion even with Christine gone. The Lindsey I remember would want to just let it be.

Maybe Buckingham Nicks featuring Mick Fleetwood could happen, but Fleetwood Mac is done.

[aleuzzi]

LB says of his firing: "There’s no fingers to point at anyone, really"--

Ummmmm....

[aleuzzi]

Maybe the band, under Lindsey's direction, could do AI-generated songs they believe Christine could have written and sung had she been there.

I mean the options are limitless and oh so exciting.

(I'm being sarcastic.)

[soul_drifter333]

I'm not so sure Lindsey actually wants to join FM again, but it shows a level of maturity that he's willing to forgive, unlike Stevie. Once again, Lindsey and Stevie have completely reversed course. In many ways, they are complete opposites, and the years have made that divide even broader. They both are different people than they were in the 70-80s for better or worse. My thoughts are Lindsey just doesn't want to be the one at fault for the demise of the band in the matter that it happened. At this point it beyond any point of the band getting back together. Lindsey and Stevie could still do a BuckNicks reunion, but that would be a slap in the face to the fans that wanted a better ending for the band. Let sleeping dogs lie and put it to rest.



Thanks for posting
He has said this before so its not really new. However I see it as another olive branch. I have never wanted to be so wrong. I predicted it would happen as far back as 2018. I hope it does not happen. John probably could not do it. Stevie and Lindsey still could tour and probably Mick too. Its just not Fleetwood Mac without Chris. But I think that time has passed and Stevie realizes her mistake and may want to turn a page in time and give Fleetwood Mac a proper burial goodbye.
I love how much Lindsey has changed over the years and appreciating playing with the Mac. Clearly he has enough money. He does it for the love of playing. Love that. But I am against it and hope it never happens.

[HomerMcvie]

LB says of his firing: "There’s no fingers to point at anyone, really"--

Ummmmm....

Man, he looks PATHETIC. Tusk Lindsey would kick this Lindsey right in her nether regions. What a sad ending to our band.

[Macfan4life]

I'm not so sure Lindsey actually wants to join FM again, but it shows a level of maturity that he's willing to forgive, unlike Stevie. Once again, Lindsey and Stevie have completely reversed course. In many ways, they are complete opposites, and the years have made that divide even broader. They both are different people than they were in the 70-80s for better or worse. My thoughts are Lindsey just doesn't want to be the one at fault for the demise of the band in the matter that it happened. At this point it beyond any point of the band getting back together. Lindsey and Stevie could still do a BuckNicks reunion, but that would be a slap in the face to the fans that wanted a better ending for the band. Let sleeping dogs lie and put it to rest.
Near death experiences humble people. I think when it happened right after his firing changed him. When he recovered he had an entirely different outlook on life. He is not bitter, holds no grudges and is at peace.

Mick will need money at some point and I can hear him begging Stevie to do one last thing for him. Mick is living off his RRHOF award sale, Rumours band proceeds, a few bucks from Mac album sales, and anything else he auctioned off. That wont last long.

[David]

[quote]Maybe Buckingham Nicks featuring Mick Fleetwood could happen, but Fleetwood Mac is done.

Quite done. The McVies—one of them is still with us but completely inactive. Nicks—she is a solo touring act that obviously has no further interest in her old band. Buckingham—has some juice in him and the inclination to do something-or-other. Fleetwood—even the manic Fleetwood is slowing down and not filling his every waking hour with music projects. The only thing I see happening at this stage is a Buckingham–Fleetwood gig or series of gigs at the clubs (Zoo style), with the two of them whomping around with one final rock and roll push before the retirement home. It actually could be kinda fun to witness. They could throw caution (and vapid psychologizing) to the wind and blast their way through “Bwana” and “Second Hand News” and “The Right Place to Fade.” In fact, the latter would make the perfect final performance.

[jbrownsjr]

I find it sad in a pathetic kind of way that he’s still talking about being open to a reunion even with Christine gone. The Lindsey I remember would want to just let it be.

Maybe Buckingham Nicks featuring Mick Fleetwood could happen, but Fleetwood Mac is done.

^^^This part.

[HomerMcvie]

^^^This part.

But never Stevie and Lindsey. EVER.

[bombaysaffires]

Thanks for posting
He has said this before so its not really new. However I see it as another olive branch. I have never wanted to be so wrong. I predicted it would happen as far back as 2018. I hope it does not happen. John probably could not do it. Stevie and Lindsey still could tour and probably Mick too. Its just not Fleetwood Mac without Chris. But I think that time has passed and Stevie realizes her mistake and may want to turn a page in time and give Fleetwood Mac a proper burial goodbye.
I love how much Lindsey has changed over the years and appreciating playing with the Mac. Clearly he has enough money. He does it for the love of playing. Love that. But I am against it and hope it never happens.

Not sure I believe she feels this way at all. Not sure why he would be extending that olive branch.... guilt over past stuff??? At this point, let it go dude.

I hope it never happens. John is done, and Chris is dead, and Old Goatsy fired Lindsey. IT'S OVER. ACCEPT IT, Mick.

Well said.

I find it sad in a pathetic kind of way that he’s still talking about being open to a reunion even with Christine gone. The Lindsey I remember would want to just let it be.

Maybe Buckingham Nicks featuring Mick Fleetwood could happen, but Fleetwood Mac is done.

LB says of his firing: "There’s no fingers to point at anyone, really"--

Ummmmm....

Both of these things are puzzling.... Is it just a very Lindsey thing that HE didn't get to control the ending and that's what bothers him?? Does he feel like he owes her something or like he's guilty or something?? It's very, very weird his backtracking on this and like... gaslighting all of the world about what happened. Let.it.go.

[HomerMcvie]

Both of these things are puzzling.... Is it just a very Lindsey thing that HE didn't get to control the ending and that's what bothers him?? Does he feel like he owes her something or like he's guilty or something?? It's very, very weird his backtracking on this and like... gaslighting all of the world about what happened. Let.it.go.

I think he's embarrassed. That his heart attack made him realize that maybe he's an @ss(at least to CRAZY STEVIE, who deserves every ounce of his vitriol! But I digress... lol). That he doesn't want to die, being remembered as an asshole. He wants to die on top of the game...

But, "Dear Lindsey, is too late for that now. The window has closed. You've got to learn to live with it. It's over."

And you did win. You finally got rid of that crazy @#%%&. Congrats! :)

[Villavic]

LB says of his firing: "There’s no fingers to point at anyone, really"--
.

Surely he wanted to sound polite, but I think he should have refrained from saying that. Or the only decent explanation for this quote is that he knows something we don't. I always find ridiculous that the reason Stevie wanted the band to fire Lindsey was that story about the 2018 Musicares Gala. There had to be more than that, IMHO. And "that" could mean Lindsey did something more that bothered Stevie a lot, something really serious. Or she has mental problems and the band (yes the 3 members) agreed for money reasons.

And I agree that at this point is ridiculous and pathetic about they could be thinking in a reunion. War is over. Sorry, Fleetwood Mac is over ;) .

[jbrownsjr]

But never Stevie and Lindsey. EVER.

Get that fake bull*** out of here!

[HomerMcvie]

Get that fake bull*** out of here!

If they would hold hands and kiss, I'd projectile vomit all over the world! Look out, y'all!

[jbrownsjr]

If they would hold hands and kiss, I'd projectile vomit all over the world! Look out, y'all!

It's just insulting at this point.

[Mr Scarrott]

Given the circs, and John's probable retirement, some sort of Lindsey & Mick all-star band with rotating membership might be fun to go to. It looks like those two at least have made some sort of peace.

I don't think I could abide going to see Stevie with the other two (or three) as FM. I would prefer to leave my illusions intact from that magical 2014/15 tour.

[Macfan4life]

We are all in consensus which is rare for this board. But there is something glaring that I acknowledge. Mick always needs money. His 2 highest awards would be his Grammy and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He sold the RRHOF award. Lindsey even insinuated that one reason he agreed to do Tango was help Mick out financially. He fired Lindsey to help himself out financially. I cant see Mick ignoring one last chance at a big pay day. Sure he can have fun with the Zoo and Lindsey. But we all know who he needs for a big pay day. I believe he will call her and beg her to make amends and do it for him. History always repeats itself. I also think he is so desperate that he will find a replacement for his side kick John. Mick has done whatever he needs to do to make money even if it involves firing his guitarist, begging Chris for money, selling off his awards, etc. He was not a song writer. He does not get much on album sales. He needs to play gigs for money.

[HomerMcvie]

It's just insulting at this point.

It's ridiculous.

So who's more pathetic? Mick or Lindsey?

[jbrownsjr]

Maybe he just wants to mimic her doing Rhiannon again!

[aleuzzi]

Surely he wanted to sound polite, but I think he should have refrained from saying that. Or the only decent explanation for this quote is that he knows something we don't. I always find ridiculous that the reason Stevie wanted the band to fire Lindsey was that story about the 2018 Musicares Gala. There had to be more than that, IMHO. And "that" could mean Lindsey did something more that bothered Stevie a lot, something really serious. Or she has mental problems and the band (yes the 3 members) agreed for money reasons.

And I agree that at this point is ridiculous and pathetic about they could be thinking in a reunion. War is over. Sorry, Fleetwood Mac is over ;) .

Yeah--something else had to have occurred. LB and Mick have both referred to a general band unhappiness "about the way things were." That suggests an ongoing interpersonal and/or professional problem. I remember Rolling Stone article from 2015 (2016?) where Christine was astonished that they were still fighting, that their problems "should have been resolved a long time ago."

[sue]

The Buckingham Fleetwood idea is the most feasible…
featuring Mcvie for maybe two numbers…..The Chain with John’s iconic bass line being one of them.

No appearance from Stevie, so as a nod to her, Lindsey would have to sing one of her numbers..
Storms for instance.

[HomerMcvie]

The Buckingham Fleetwood idea is the most feasible…
featuring Mcvie for maybe two numbers…..The Chain with John’s iconic bass line being one of them.

No appearance from Stevie, so as a nod to her, Lindsey would have to sing one of her numbers..
Storms for instance.
Musicians are paid for TRAVELING, not for playing. There's NO WAY John is doing this.

Sorry. :xoxo:

[bwboy]

The Buckingham Fleetwood idea is the most feasible… No appearance from Stevie, so as a nod to her, Lindsey would have to sing one of her numbers..
Storms for instance.

I think Crystal would be the better choice.

[Villavic]

If they would hold hands and kiss, I'd projectile vomit all over the world! Look out, y'all!

Please don't eat cebiche that day.

[HomerMcvie]

Please don't eat cebiche that day.

Do you mean cerviche? I love it!

I hope you enjoy projectile "raw" seafood!

Hint- wear a poncho! :lol:

[SteveMacD]

Mick always needs money.

Lindsey even insinuated that one reason he agreed to do Tango was help Mick out financially.

That was 37 years ago. Part of the reason he went with Carl Stubner after Dennis retired is because Carl was a money guy, first, and set Mick up with a financial manager.

“And Mr. Fleetwood is now planning to turn over the bulk of his funds to David Manashe, a friend of Mr. Stubner and a stock broker at Dean Witter Reynolds, a unit of Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter, Discover & Company.”

So, he has someone looking over his money and the child support days are over, with the younger daughters being 22.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/30/business/talking-money-with-mick-fleetwood-there-s-no-stopping-tomorrow.html

Whatever bankruptcies that have been reported since were for businesses, not his personal finances. Anything else is him licensing his name.

Plus, his property in Hawaii has to be worth a small fortune.

[DownOnRodeo]

Musicians are paid for TRAVELING, not for playing. There's NO WAY John is doing this.

If John is still up for sailing, stick him, Mick and Lindsey on a cruise ship. Now there's a Rumours night for you!

[HomerMcvie]

If John is still up for sailing, stick him, Mick and Lindsey on a cruise ship. Now there's a Rumours night for you!

He might agree to a residency somewhere, but I doubt even that. John is smarter than the rest of them.

[Villavic]

Do you mean cerviche? I love it!

I hope you enjoy projectile "raw" seafood!

Hint- wear a poncho! :lol:

Of course, and obviously peruvian cebiche is the best.

https://img-global.cpcdn.com/recipes/recipes_17223_v1422432620_receta_foto_00017223-x6nyyovevuqgqw21fffr/680x482cq70/ceviche-peruano-foto-principal.jpg

[Penguin Emeritus]

Yeah--something else had to have occurred. LB and Mick have both referred to a general band unhappiness "about the way things were." That suggests an ongoing interpersonal and/or professional problem. I remember Rolling Stone article from 2015 (2016?) where Christine was astonished that they were still fighting, that their problems "should have been resolved a long time ago."

From what I heard on my end, she was not so much astonished (i think their behavior was almost expected by then) as just fed up and disgusted that the same issues were being rehashed so venomously, for so long, with no real progress ever made. almost anything became an issue to bicker over.

I think maybe LB feels some guilt at this point, as someone else said. maybe with the passage of time he can more clearly see his own fault in what happened...? i think he's the type who would like to be the one that said 'well I tried, i held out the olive branch, she didn't take it' so as to deflect some of the assholey reputation all that brought him?

At this point i would maybe like to see Mick doing something with Lindsey...? leave stevie and her drama out of it, she seems happy on her own. i think mick and LB might get some enjoyment of some sort of project together because they seem to get on well. hopefully mick isn't too desperate for $ and is living within his means. and imo John is just done and would have no real interest in playing again at all. I hope he is enjoying the hell out of his boat... occasionally smoking a relaxing joint as he catches tons of fish and reads some really good books, and maybe finds some peace in his lifetime of memories.

--Lis

[bombaysaffires]

That was 37 years ago. Part of the reason he went with Carl Stubner after Dennis retired is because Carl was a money guy, first, and set Mick up with a financial manager.

“And Mr. Fleetwood is now planning to turn over the bulk of his funds to David Manashe, a friend of Mr. Stubner and a stock broker at Dean Witter Reynolds, a unit of Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter, Discover & Company.”

So, he has someone looking over his money and the child support days are over, with the younger daughters being 22.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/30/business/talking-money-with-mick-fleetwood-there-s-no-stopping-tomorrow.html

Whatever bankruptcies that have been reported since were for businesses, not his personal finances. Anything else is him licensing his name.

Plus, his property in Hawaii has to be worth a small fortune.


And let's not forget Mick recently sold his share of FM publishing to Hipgnosis or whomever for a massive lump sum of money. his comment at the time was that getting this lump of cash now would allow him to do a number of things that he otherwise would have had to space out over time (ie as money came in from subsequent FM tours). Let's see how well it works for him having a money manager... I predict in a few years, because he won't keep tabs on his money, he could easily find out he's been swindled out of millions. Then what does he do?? I wouldn't assume he's not still financing the lives of his daughters -- both the younger ones and even the older ones and any grandchildren they may have produced. And god knows how many 'helpers' he has.... he did have one assistant with him when I went to one of his meet and greets several years ago (who kinda creeped me out and frankly didn't seem very bright, but very impressed with himself nonetheless...). And there's no income from the restaurant and gift shop in Maui anymore...

[SteveMacD]

Let's see how well it works for him having a money manager... I predict in a few years, because he won't keep tabs on his money, he could easily find out he's been swindled out of millions.
That’s been in place since the mid-90s. The quote was from 1997. The money manager was a friend of Carl’s and worked for Morgan Stanley, so I doubt that’s the kind of situation where getting swindled is likely. Furthermore, that would be grounds for one hell of a lawsuit.

And god knows how many 'helpers' he has....
Most of those people are tour specific.

And there's no income from the restaurant and gift shop in Maui anymore...
I wonder how much that actually brought in. It seems like something like that would have a massive overhead. And, did he actually own the business or was he more of an advisor who licensed his name? I’m sure there was some money, but probably not enough to support his lifestyle.

[UnwindedDreams]

he did have one assistant with him when I went to one of his meet and greets several years ago (who kinda creeped me out and frankly didn't seem very bright, but very impressed with himself nonetheless...).
I know exactly who you're talking about. That person was perfect for running a rural one floor motel that still uses hard keys.

[bombaysaffires]

I know exactly who you're talking about. That person was perfect for running a rural one floor motel that still uses hard keys.

:eek: :nod: :wavey:

[DownOnRodeo]

The money manager (...) worked for Morgan Stanley, so I doubt that’s the kind of situation where getting swindled is likely.

No comment.:laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Of course, and obviously peruvian cebiche is the best.

https://img-global.cpcdn.com/recipes/recipes_17223_v1422432620_receta_foto_00017223-x6nyyovevuqgqw21fffr/680x482cq70/ceviche-peruano-foto-principal.jpg

Never heard of it, but I'll try anything once.

[justcrazylove]

I know exactly who you're talking about. That person was perfect for running a rural one floor motel that still uses hard keys.

This right here, is a FANTASTIC insult. I will be using it in the future.

[SteveMacD]

This right here, is a FANTASTIC insult. I will be using it in the future.

Poor Homer :distress:

[HomerMcvie]

Poor Homer :distress:

What did I do now?

[SteveMacD]

What did I do now?

Something. I have no idea what, but something.

[jbrownsjr]

What did I do now?

I forgive you, and the spell that you cast.

[BigAl84]

I think the "No finger pointing" comment really reeks of not wanting to get in any additional spats with team Azoff. Sadly, I bet there's been a fair amount of bridges burned/blacklisting that Azoff made sure happened as a result of the fallout. It sounded like he didn't like Lindsey in the first place, before the feud.

[SteveMacD]

It sounded like he didn't like Lindsey in the first place, before the feud.

I wonder why that is?

[HomerMcvie]

I think the "No finger pointing" comment really reeks of not wanting to get in any additional spats with team Azoff. Sadly, I bet there's been a fair amount of bridges burned/blacklisting that Azoff made sure happened as a result of the fallout. It sounded like he didn't like Lindsey in the first place, before the feud.

Irving knows that's Old Goatsy is a bigger cash cow. It probably just boils down to that. All Irving cares about is money.

[jbrownsjr]

Irving knows that's Old Goatsy is a bigger cash cow. It probably just boils down to that. All Irving cares about is money.

Exactly, if he found a way to make more $$$ from Buck, (more than Goat) the opposite would have happened and Christine would be like:

"I love Stevie, but we are a much better band now." {There I said it Mick, now give me my $25 mil.}

[SteveMacD]

Irving knows that's Old Goatsy is a bigger cash cow. It probably just boils down to that. All Irving cares about is money.

The ironic part about “Free Fallin’” being in the setlist is that Irving rejected Full Moon Fever when he was heading up MCA Records because he “didn’t hear a hit.”

[jbrownsjr]

The ironic part about “Free Fallin’” being in the setlist is that Irving rejected Full Moon Fever when he was heading up MCA Records because he “didn’t hear a hit.”

I can't stand that song, tbh. I would have rejected it, too.

[BigAl84]

I wonder why that is?

Because Lindsey wasn't a "yes man" to the Nicks posse?

[aleuzzi]

I can't stand that song, tbh. I would have rejected it, too.

Agreed. It's cloying. Or maybe grating. Who knows? I hate it.

[bombaysaffires]

I think the "No finger pointing" comment really reeks of not wanting to get in any additional spats with team Azoff. Sadly, I bet there's been a fair amount of bridges burned/blacklisting that Azoff made sure happened as a result of the fallout. It sounded like he didn't like Lindsey in the first place, before the feud.

I never, ever understood that whole situation. It feels like Lindsey felt like maybe if he aligned himself with the devil he'd reap better rewards... but all he did was let the devil in where he could do more damage. How Lindsey thought he was somehow being smart by making Irving his manager is really a sad commentary on Lindsey's ability to judge someone's character.

[jbrownsjr]

Agreed. It's cloying. Or maybe grating. Who knows? I hate it.

I do love, I Will Run To You.

[aleuzzi]

I do love, I Will Run To You.

I like a lot of TP compositions and performances. Just hate Free Falling...

[BigAl84]

I never, ever understood that whole situation. It feels like Lindsey felt like maybe if he aligned himself with the devil he'd reap better rewards... but all he did was let the devil in where he could do more damage. How Lindsey thought he was somehow being smart by making Irving his manager is really a sad commentary on Lindsey's ability to judge someone's character.

Yeah I never understood that either. I don't remember, was Irving already managing Stevie when Lindsey came onboard? If so, that's insane that he thought that was a good idea. Maybe he thought it would be easier to navigate Fleetwood Mac projects if Irving managed both of them and it was all under one roof?

I can only conclude that the majority of conversations leading up to Lindsey moving over to Irving must have taken place with Irving's staff and not Irving himself. His staff must of blown a lot of smoke up his a** and somehow convinced him Irving was the right fit. What was Irving's angle!? It's pretty clear that Lindsey's solo work was never as commercial, what's in it for him? Complete business control over Fleetwood Mac I suppose.

[HomerMcvie]

I like a lot of TP compositions and performances. Just hate Free Falling...

Here Comes The Girl is my favorite.

Or is it Here Comes The Dude?

Tom wasn't The Great Enunciator(er?)...

[SteveMacD]

I can't stand that song, tbh. I would have rejected it, too.

It also had “Runnin’ Down A Dream,” “I Won’t Back Down,” and “Yer So Bad” and went on to sell five million copies.

[Macfan4life]

It also had “Runnin’ Down A Dream,” “I Won’t Back Down,” and “Yer So Bad” and went on to sell five million copies.
Yes it was one of the biggest albums that year. People did not want to buy into a Tom Petty solo album.....like why is this happening since he is the lead singer of the Heartbreakers. Stevie's friends Tom Petty and Don Henley had a HUGE year in 1989. The biggest of their careers. Don even won a Grammy. Yet Stevie released a dud. There was a time her stuff smoked their stuff on the charts. Full Moon Fever and The End of The Innocence both sold 6 million copies in 1989. Stevie's OSOTM sold 500k copies in 1989. It sold more and would eventually go platinum many years later.

Stevie does Petty songs in concert but I think the one that fits her best is Change of Heart. I can imagine her singing that. Its such a better groove than I Need To Know.

[bwboy]

Because Lindsey wasn't a "yes man" to the Nicks posse?

Yet people say constantly here that Lindsey only said the Buck/Vie album WASN’T a FM album because he was afraid to cross Stevie, which would have made him a “yes man.” Remember, Lindsey only acknowledged what every single fan on the planet had known AFTER he had been fired. So that doesn’t seem to have been the problem.

I think SteveMacD has been right all along about what the problem was between Irving and Lindsey.

[jbrownsjr]

It also had “Runnin’ Down A Dream,” “I Won’t Back Down,” and “Yer So Bad” and went on to sell five million copies.

I remember. You couldn't get away from those songs, even if you tried.

[BigAl84]

He crossed camp Stevie by releasing the album with Christine. Stevie didn't want to do a Fleetwood Mac record and she didn't want the press acknowledging her absence from the project either. The only thing that would have made her happy was if they shelved the entire project for good. It didn't matter how nice they tried to spin it and let Stevie off the hook, she was pissed that the other 4 members of the band proceeded to release the album because it ultimately made her look bad to a certain degree. Plus it displayed the power-shift that was occurring within the band. She wasn't able to call the shots on this one.

Edited:
Irving was probably pissed as well because he was banking on a Fleetwood Mac pay-day that never happened because of the Stevie-Lindsey drama. So yeah...I bet Irving blames Lindsey for Stevie not wanting to do a Fleetwood Mac album and then mucking up the big touring plans. Irving was left with a tour that costed them money between the settlement and ticket sale issues.

I think Irving was naive to think he could waltz into Fleetwood Mac and run things the way he did with The Eagles after Frey passed. The dynamics of that band are entirely different than Fleetwood Mac.

[bombaysaffires]

Yeah I never understood that either. I don't remember, was Irving already managing Stevie when Lindsey came onboard? If so, that's insane that he thought that was a good idea. Maybe he thought it would be easier to navigate Fleetwood Mac projects if Irving managed both of them and it was all under one roof?

I can only conclude that the majority of conversations leading up to Lindsey moving over to Irving must have taken place with Irving's staff and not Irving himself. His staff must of blown a lot of smoke up his a** and somehow convinced him Irving was the right fit. What was Irving's angle!? It's pretty clear that Lindsey's solo work was never as commercial, what's in it for him? Complete business control over Fleetwood Mac I suppose.

Irving's been on Team Stevie since the early 80s... maybe even earlier. He was managing the Eagles (and others) back then and presumably that is how Stevie met him, but maybe somebody knows different.

[bwboy]

He crossed camp Stevie by releasing the album with Christine. Stevie didn't want to do a Fleetwood Mac record and she didn't want the press acknowledging her absence from the project either. The only thing that would have made her happy was if they shelved the entire project for good. It didn't matter how nice they tried to spin it and let Stevie off the hook, she was pissed that the other 4 members of the band proceeded to release the album because it ultimately made her look bad to a certain degree. Plus it displayed the power-shift that was occurring within the band. She wasn't able to call the shots on this one. Irving was probably pissed as well because he was banking on a Fleetwood Mac album pay-day and that never happened because of the Stevie-Lindsey drama, then it was released without his client (Stevie) which put more salt on the wound. So yeah...I bet Irving blames Lindsey for the collapse his big Fleetwood Mac payday. Instead he and his client (Stevie) were left with a tour that costed them money between the settlement and ticket sale issues.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your point that Azoff blamed Lindsey for not calling Buck/Vie a FM album, I don’t make the connection. A FM album wouldn’t make that much money, certainly not what a tour would. And wouldn’t Azoff have still made money off the album since he was Lindsey’s manager at the time? And he was left with a tour without Lindsey because the band fired him, apparently with Azoff’s approval/encouragement. The band wanted Lindsey out so much they settled almost immediately. They made so much money from the tour, even if they settled for $14 million, they still made a ton of money. And we know they settled for less than $14 million because that was what he was asking- I wouldn’t be surprised if they settled for $10 million, but they must have thought it was worth it.

No way for any of us to know for sure, but I think instead of it being one or two big issues, it was several things that happened along the way that finally led to Stevie and Irving saying enough. Doesn’t mean that it was right, but that’s my where my vote is.

[BigAl84]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your point that Azoff blamed Lindsey for not calling Buck/Vie a FM album, I don’t make the connection. A FM album wouldn’t make that much money, certainly not what a tour would. And wouldn’t Azoff have still made money off the album since he was Lindsey’s manager at the time? And he was left with a tour without Lindsey because the band fired him, apparently with Azoff’s approval/encouragement. The band wanted Lindsey out so much they settled almost immediately. They made so much money from the tour, even if they settled for $14 million, they still made a ton of money. And we know they settled for less than $14 million because that was what he was asking- I wouldn’t be surprised if they settled for $10 million, but they must have thought it was worth it.

No way for any of us to know for sure, but I think instead of it being one or two big issues, it was several things that happened along the way that finally led to Stevie and Irving saying enough. Doesn’t mean that it was right, but that’s my where my vote is.

I just revisited what I wrote and I did kind of contradict myself. I said Fleetwood Mac album when I meant tour.

What I meant is the release of the BuckVie album started the bad mojo between Lindsey and Stevie which eventually resulted in the Music Cares meltdown and Lindsey's departure. Irving was pissed because he had another Fleetwood Mac cash grab tour in the works and it went sideways. It was several issues, Stevie had her own issues and Irving was pissed about his business objectives being disrupted. Irving knew with Lindsey out of the picture, the tour financials could look different.

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

[jbrownsjr]

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

Not to mention the media mess that would have only gotten worse.

[BigAl84]

Not to mention the media mess that would have only gotten worse.

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

[jbrownsjr]

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

That part!!! I was more upset about the way they handled it.
She couldn't even be bothered to face him and say, "We need to let the shippers know that we really can't stand each other. Oh and you're fired!!"

[bwboy]

I just revisited what I wrote and I did kind of contradict myself. I said Fleetwood Mac album when I meant tour.

The band settling quickly had nothing to do with how much they wanted him out - it's because they literally had no case. Had it gone to court, they would have lost. Then they would be paying out Lindsey PLUS all the legal fees of going to court.

Got it, I see what you mean now.

I absolutely agree FM had no case. If I recall correctly, and if it was true, all the contracts for the tour had been signed, and then Lindsey was fired. He should have been paid for that tour, legally and morally. I don’t think if they had gone to court it would have hurt their reputation that much- I mean, this is a band that had rampant drug use, alcoholism, affairs within and outside of the band, members that left for cults, etc, etc. I agree nasty stuff would have been alleged, and by both sides, but I don’t think those allegations would have shocked the public. “Lindsey smirked at me; Stevie didn’t like it that I wanted Say You Will to be a double album; Lindsey treated me differently than he would have Bob Dylan; Stevie refused to record with us and just wanted to tour for the money.” I mean, it’s definitely petty but hardly going to outrage the average person.

[Villavic]

Irving's been on Team Stevie since the early 80s... maybe even earlier. He was managing the Eagles (and others) back then and presumably that is how Stevie met him, but maybe somebody knows different.

Yes. According to Mick, it was just finishing the Tusk tour. Or at least it's when he learned about it:

Less than a month after the end of the Tusk tour, I realized I was in trouble with the rest of the band.

By this time, other managers began to enter the picture. John, Chris, and I were still with Mickey Shapiro, but Stevie had signed with the tough industry mogul Irving Azoff, who managed the Eagles at the time, to represent her with regard to her looming solo career. Lindsey was with somebody else.

The sh** hit the fan at a business meeting held to overview the Tusk tour with reference to the European leg. This turned into a vitriolic review of my behavior and management skills. The basic complaint, of course, was that we'd been on the road for eight months and hadn't made much money.

[HomerMcvie]

How quickly they settled revealed just how effing dirty the whole thing really was. Lindsey had his paper trail and he knew it. It's still shocking that he offered to fly out to Hawaii and talk things over and Mick gave him the cold shoulder. It's nauseating how much Mick became Stevie's pet.

Mick is a PIG. He'll do whatever to make a buck. He knows Old Goatsy is his best chance at making a buck.

You know what they should do? He should just become Old Goatsy's drummer. Seriously.

[BLY]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1292203]



I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

[bwboy]

Yes. According to Mick, it was just finishing the Tusk tour. Or at least it's when he learned about it:

Less than a month after the end of the Tusk tour, I realized I was in trouble with the rest of the band.

By this time, other managers began to enter the picture. John, Chris, and I were still with Mickey Shapiro, but Stevie had signed with the tough industry mogul Irving Azoff, who managed the Eagles at the time, to represent her with regard to her looming solo career. Lindsey was with somebody else.

The sh** hit the fan at a business meeting held to overview the Tusk tour with reference to the European leg. This turned into a vitriolic review of my behavior and management skills. The basic complaint, of course, was that we'd been on the road for eight months and hadn't made much money.

I’ve always thought it was suspect that Mick glossed over that period- he used the excuses like putting grand pianos in hotel rooms, or repainting the rooms, etc. but we all know it was just as possible he was just as bad with the band money as he was with his own. Or maybe he was deliberately taking a little extra? And notice how he says the meeting was about his “behavior” as well as management skills, but never elaborated what those behaviors were.

Those would have the kind of details I’d love to read about.

[jbrownsjr]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1292203]



I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

With a collar around his neck.

[OutsideTheRain]

I may be open to one final send off.
A Buckingham Nicks set.
Fleetwood (and John McVie if he's up for it) coming out for a tribute to Christine to close out the show.
Recorded in an intimate "VH1 Storytellers" type format.

[HomerMcvie]

[QUOTE=BLY;1292204]

With a collar around his neck.

Lindsey isn't going to need his.

Hopefully.

[bombaysaffires]

And let's not forget Irving's official statement after Lindsey's interviews about his firing:

“While I understand it’s challenging for Lindsey to accept his own role in these matters and far easier for him to blame a manager, the fact remains that his actions alone are responsible for what transpired. Frankly, If I can be accused of anything, it’s perhaps holding things together longer than I should have. After 2018 when Fleetwood Mac evolved with their new lineup, my continued work with the band was due entirely to the fact I’ve been aligned with Stevie Nicks in thought and purpose from the earliest of days. While financial gain was not a motivator for me, it was a delightful bonus that the band scored their highest grossing tour ever, without Lindsey.”

[jmn3]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1292203]



I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

She’d never want another “name” on stage with her, at least not every night/all night.

[Villavic]

[QUOTE=HomerMcvie;1292203]
I’m actually surprised he hasn’t become Stevie’s drummer by now.

The question is Why did she never asked him. I'm sure if she had he would have accepted immediately. $

[DownOnRodeo]

While financial gain was not a motivator for me, it was a delightful bonus that the band scored their highest grossing tour ever, without Lindsey.

Guy can't keep his story straight until the sentence has even ended.

[sleepless child]

Mick is trying to raise money for Hawaii. I wonder why he doesn't ask Lindsey to come and play with him at a benefit concert. That would be great

[Villavic]

[QUOTE=BLY;1292204]

She’d never want another “name” on stage with her, at least not every night/all night.

I don't see any risk on Mick's being every night behind her. He is not enough great to steal her thunder. I rather think they could actually talk about it but he expected more money than they offered and nothing came at the end. But, of course all of this are just speculations.

[SteveMacD]

My guess is Stevie didn’t want to blur the lines between her solo career and Fleetwood Mac.

Plus, Mick has always been Fleetwood Mac’s loudest cheerleader, so there would have been constant pressure within the tour for Stevie to get back to Fleetwood Mac.

With the band over, I could see her bringing him on after she’s saturated the market.

[jbrownsjr]

And let's not forget Irving's official statement after Lindsey's interviews about his firing:

“While I understand it’s challenging for Lindsey to accept his own role in these matters and far easier for him to blame a manager, the fact remains that his actions alone are responsible for what transpired. Frankly, If I can be accused of anything, it’s perhaps holding things together longer than I should have. After 2018 when Fleetwood Mac evolved with their new lineup, my continued work with the band was due entirely to the fact I’ve been aligned with Stevie Nicks in thought and purpose from the earliest of days. While financial gain was not a motivator for me, it was a delightful bonus that the band scored their highest grossing tour ever, without Lindsey.”

That's borderline cruel. It just is.

[HomerMcvie]

That's borderline cruel. It just is.

Irving's an ass.

'Show me a manager that's made too many friends in this business, and I'll show you a manager that's sold out their artist" - Irving Azoff

[jmn3]

Irving's an ass.

'Show me a manager that's made too many friends in this business, and I'll show you a manager that's sold out their artist" - Irving Azoff

The guy has one of the most punchable faces. An absolutely miserable human being.

[HomerMcvie]

The guy has one of the most punchable faces. An absolutely miserable human being.

So(not) ironic that he managed(s) Glenn Frey and Don Henley. Two of the most miserable people that ever breathed oxygen.

[bombaysaffires]

That's borderline cruel. It just is.

Yeah, just speaks to how caring and concerned Irv must have been about Lindsey's solo career when he was managing him or how much he actually cared about Fleetwood Mac's career, other than how it benefitted Stevie.

Again, why Lindsey ever hired this man to be his manager is beyond me.

[HomerMcvie]

Yeah, just speaks to how caring and concerned Irv must have been about Lindsey's solo career when he was managing him or how much he actually cared about Fleetwood Mac's career, other than how it benefitted Stevie.

Again, why Lindsey ever hired this man to be his manager is beyond me.

Right? Irving was gonna make $50 off of Lindsey. Why would he mess with him?

[jmn3]

Right? Irving was gonna make $50 off of Lindsey. Why would he mess with him?

I just always assumed it was a way to consolidate his Fleetwood Mac power. When exactly did he become Lindsey’s manager anyway?

[UnwindedDreams]

I just always assumed it was a way to consolidate his Fleetwood Mac power. When exactly did he become Lindsey’s manager anyway?
Stevie asked Irving to be Lindsey's manager as a favor to her because she cared about Lindsey so much:D

[HomerMcvie]

I just always assumed it was a way to consolidate his Fleetwood Mac power. When exactly did he become Lindsey’s manager anyway?

You're probably right. Just a chore that came with the FM package.

[jbrownsjr]

I think they should do a 40 date tour of Mick, Stevie, John and Lindsey playing the laserdisc of Mirage Tour and sit and watch it with us. They sit in the front row as it plays on the big screen.

That I would pay for.

[HomerMcvie]

I think they should do a 40 date tour of Mick, Stevie, John and Lindsey playing the laserdisc of Mirage Tour and sit and watch it with us. They sit in the front row as it plays on the big screen.

That I would pay for.

The ONLY thing I'm paying for from here on out is Mirage, BOTH nights, BOTH recordings, NO overdubs. I'd pay big money for that!

Old Goatsy would never allow that!

[jbrownsjr]

The ONLY thing I'm paying for from here on out is Mirage, BOTH nights, BOTH recordings, NO overdubs. I'd pay big money for that!

Old Goatsy would never allow that!

I love Stevie's voice on the Mirage tour!

[HomerMcvie]

I love Stevie's voice on the Mirage tour!

And her boobies on EOTW. They were about to fall out of their holster!

You know, when she's shaking her fake, taped down tambourine.

[jbrownsjr]

And her boobies on EOTW. They were about to fall out of their holster!

You know, when she's shaking her fake, taped down tambourine.

She truly looks sexy and amazing. Her energy and stage presence back then used to knock me over.

[HomerMcvie]

She truly looks sexy and amazing. Her energy and stage presence back then used to knock me over.

I loved her back then. You know, when she was good. Very very goooood.

[UnwindedDreams]

I loved her back then. You know, when she was good. Very very goooood.
Do you like Angel?!!!!!!

[jbrownsjr]

I loved her back then. You know, when she was good. Very very goooood.

Close your eyes softly, then.

[HomerMcvie]

Do you like Angel?!!!!!!

Yes. It's tied with Sara for my favorite Stevie song on Tusk.

[UnwindedDreams]

Yes. It's tied with Sara for my favorite Stevie song on Tusk.
Christine kills that song. That's what I hate about the Bella Donna Tour solo version. it's driven by Waddy. I still enjoy it but that electric organ that Chris opens the song with is amazing. And of course John kicking in too.

[jbrownsjr]

Christine kills that song. That's what I hate about the Bella Donna Tour solo version. it's driven by Waddy. I still enjoy it but that electric organ that Chris opens the song with is amazing. And of course John kicking in too.

Her band was campy with her beautiful solo work. It was frustrating.

[jmn3]

Her band was campy with her beautiful solo work. It was frustrating.

Some of the live stuff from those early tours just rubs me the wrong way. The Fleetwood Mac stuff always came off with a degree of cheese:Angel, Sara, Rhiannon, Gypsy…just brutal at times. The keys always seemed too…feminine? This is a terrible description but it just lacked a lot of oomph. Her “girls” voices always were way too involved. And Waddy just attacks some of the songs like his guitar is a chainsaw.

[jbrownsjr]

Some of the live stuff from those early tours just rubs me the wrong way. The Fleetwood Mac stuff always came off with a degree of cheese:Angel, Sara, Rhiannon, Gypsy…just brutal at times. The keys always seemed too…feminine? This is a terrible description but it just lacked a lot of oomph. Her “girls” voices always were way too involved. And Waddy just attacks some of the songs like his guitar is a chainsaw.

I waited sooooooo long to see Nightbird on SNL and I was like... "wow, this is so corny!"

[BigAl84]

Some of the live stuff from those early tours just rubs me the wrong way. The Fleetwood Mac stuff always came off with a degree of cheese:Angel, Sara, Rhiannon, Gypsy…just brutal at times. The keys always seemed too…feminine? This is a terrible description but it just lacked a lot of oomph. Her “girls” voices always were way too involved. And Waddy just attacks some of the songs like his guitar is a chainsaw.

And it's still going on 40 years later. The way her current drummer plays Gypsy...yikes. Truthfully, I find that guys playing to be so generic and uninspired.

[UnwindedDreams]

Her band was campy with her beautiful solo work. It was frustrating. And when I say Christine kills Angel, I mean she makes the song GREAT. Without Chris leading that song, I wouldn't like it the way I do!

[UnwindedDreams]

And it's still going on 40 years later. The way her current drummer plays Gypsy...yikes. Truthfully, I find that guys playing to be so generic and uninspired. I don't know where she found this guy. He also doesn't seem to be in the best of shape. Scott Crago, Mark Schulman, and Jimmy Paxson are my favorites of her solo drummers. I think Jimmy is my favorite.

[jbrownsjr]

And when I say Christine kills Angel, I mean she makes the song GREAT. Without Chris leading that song, I wouldn't like it the way I do!

I knew what you meant. I'm not the police of all things Christine. But, yeah she quietly had a lot more contributions than even I've given her credit for.

These discoveries are evolution. :wavey:

[David]

Christine kills that song. That's what I hate about the Bella Donna Tour solo version. it's driven by Waddy. I still enjoy it but that electric organ that Chris opens the song with is amazing. And of course John kicking in too.

All good insights into the way Christine’s eccentricity of playing rhythm on a keyboard helped provide both space and drive to a track. “Angel” is a perfect example. It’s a three-part rhythm section that drives the whole thing musically: drums, bass, and electronic piano.

Here is the puppy she used in those years to lay down those foundations. It was called a CP-30, made by Yamaha. It was the company’s very first fully electronic keyboard (rather than electro-mechanical), and it worked in stereo, with two channels that you could operate independently of each other to fatten it up.

She switched to it in 1978 in the studio when her Hohner electro-mechanical ran out of sticky stuff. The sticky stuff degraded and you couldn’t replace it because the German company didn’t sell it — you had to buy a whole new rig, and they stopped making it because the stereo electronic age was upon us.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/322000/CP30E.PDF

Benjamin Orr also used this on the first Cars album in 1978. They were very heavy — about 125 pounds — and they had a pretty short career because they were the last bastion of analog before digital turned everything into microchips.

[jbrownsjr]

All good insights into the way Christine’s eccentricity of playing rhythm on a keyboard helped provide both space and drive to a track. “Angel” is a perfect example. It’s a three-part rhythm section that drives the whole thing musically: drums, bass, and electronic piano.

Here is the puppy she used in those years to lay down those foundations. It was called a CP-30, made by Yamaha. It was the company’s very first fully electronic keyboard (rather than electro-mechanical), and it worked in stereo, with two channels that you could operate independently of each other to fatten it up.

She switched to it in 1978 in the studio when her Hohner electro-mechanical ran out of sticky stuff. The sticky stuff degraded and you couldn’t replace it because the German company didn’t sell it — you had to buy a whole new rig, and they stopped making it because the stereo electronic age was upon us.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/322000/CP30E.PDF

Benjamin Orr also used this on the first Cars album in 1978. They were very heavy — about 125 pounds — and they had a pretty short career because they were the last bastion of analog before digital turned everything into microchips.
Thanks for this!! I didn't know too much of that. So interesting on her sounds and idiosyncrasies.

[David]

Thanks for this!! I didn't know too much of that. So interesting on her sounds and idiosyncrasies.

I have always been a gassy storm, JB.

[jbrownsjr]

I have always been a gassy storm, JB.

Hohner farts and fender lies.