Stevie explains Fall From Grace

[bombaysaffires]

so.... what was going on in 1998 with Stevie and Lindsey that she was, in her words, so angry and what was she saving him from? I thought they were in a honeymoon phase then..... Was she mad he was having a kid/getting married??

And who is this interviewer?

https://x.com/poetofurheart/status/1731706283311386866?s=20

[Macfan4life]

I love that she linked it to Never Going Back Again.
These two will never stop writing songs about each other and egging the other one on.

[UnwindedDreams]

In the FM Behind the Music documentary which I think was 1998, she said that Lindsey purposely tried to make her songs sound bad. Maybe she wasn’t happy with Sweet Girl or The Dance arrangement of Silver Springs.
Also, I think in 97 or so, the story became that Mick wanted Lindsey only and wasn’t going to join unless they hired Stevie. Stevie probably didn’t like that it wasn’t being told that Mick was going to hire them both.

[HomerMcvie]

In the FM Behind the Music documentary which I think was 1998, she said that Lindsey purposely tried to make her songs sound bad. Maybe she wasn’t happy with Sweet Girl or The Dance arrangement of Silver Springs.
Also, I think in 97 or so, the story became that Mick wanted Lindsey only and wasn’t going to join unless they hired Stevie. Stevie probably didn’t like that it wasn’t being told that Mick was going to hire them both.

I had to reread that second paragraph a few times....:cool:

[Villavic]

Also, I think in 97 or so, the story became that Mick wanted Lindsey only and wasn’t going to join unless they hired Stevie. Stevie probably didn’t like that it wasn’t being told that Mick was going to hire them both.

It is correct in the Making of Rumours/Classic Albums video (1997), Lindsey told that story and how he answered they (he and Stevie) were kind of a "package deal", when he was asked to join Fleetwood Mac.

But that is no new. It is in Mick's first book, too. And probably other articles, interviews, etc.

[bombaysaffires]

Also, I think in 97 or so, the story became that Mick wanted Lindsey only and THAT LINDSEY wasn’t going to join unless they hired Stevie. Stevie probably didn’t like that it wasn’t being told that Mick was going to hire them both.

FIXED IT :wavey:

No one was questioning what you said, just how you said it.

[UnwindedDreams]

FIXED IT :wavey:

No one was questioning what you said, just how you said it.
Thank you! I listened to Fall From Grace and somehow I’m getting that maybe Stevie wasn’t happy with the songs that were in the setlist. Yet she still does 5 of them since Lindsey left and I’d bet she’d do Silver Springs if she could pull it off solo and they probably couldn’t have pulled it off in 2018 either.

[SteveMacD]

Mick’s 1990 recounting and Keith Olsen’s 2012 recounting both said that Mick called Keith after Bob left, that Mick ask if “that guitarist you played for me” would join Fleetwood Mac, that Keith then explained to Mick that it would be a packaged deal because they were committed to what they were doing and that one wouldn’t go without the other, and Mick told him to “get them to join my band.”

Mick’s next phone call was to Mickey Shapiro to draw up paperwork for both of them. Not Christine or John…

They’ve embellished that story into something it never really was.

[UnwindedDreams]

I had to reread that second paragraph a few times....:cool:
Stevie herself said two months ago on stage at Madison Square Garden that Lindsey wouldn't have joined Fleetwood Mac without her!

[Villavic]

In the FM Behind the Music documentary which I think was 1998, she said that Lindsey purposely tried to make her songs sound bad. Maybe she wasn’t happy with Sweet Girl or The Dance arrangement of Silver Springs.

That was during the 1997 tour? I don’t get it. If that was true, why did she agree to record SYW and tour with the band again, several times. I don’t remember having perceived tension between them in 1997, but the show is the show of course. Not in 2009 either, though I could say they were kind of distant between them, but rather Stevie looked tired, while Lindsey was full of energy.

somehow I’m getting that maybe Stevie wasn’t happy with the songs that were in the setlist. Yet she still does 5 of them since Lindsey left and I’d bet she’d do Silver Springs if she could pull it off solo and they probably couldn’t have pulled it off in 2018 either.

And this was the setlist in NYC 1997, where I was. 8 songs from 26 is not bad (9 if we include the Chain as a partial Stevie song). You mean the quantity or the selection?

The Chain
Dreams
Everywhere
Gold Dust Woman
I'm So Afraid
Temporary One
Bleed to Love Her
Gypsy
Big Love
Go Insane
Landslide
Say You Love Me
Sweet Girl
You Make Loving Fun
My Little Demon
Stand Back
Oh Daddy
Not That Funny
Rhiannon
Second Hand News
Silver Springs
Tusk
Go Your Own Way
Don’t Stop
Songbird
Farmer’s Daughter

[UnwindedDreams]

That was during the 1997 tour? I don’t get it. If that was true, why did she agree to record SYW and tour with the band again, several times. I don’t remember having perceived tension between them in 1997, but the show is the show of course. Not in 2009 either, though I could say they were kind of distant between them, but rather Stevie looked tired, while Lindsey was full of energy.



And this was the setlist in NYC 1997, where I was. 8 songs from 26 is not bad (9 if we include the Chain as a partial Stevie song). You mean the quantity or the selection?

The Chain
Dreams
Everywhere
Gold Dust Woman
I'm So Afraid
Temporary One
Bleed to Love Her
Gypsy
Big Love
Go Insane
Landslide
Say You Love Me
Sweet Girl
You Make Loving Fun
My Little Demon
Stand Back
Oh Daddy
Not That Funny
Rhiannon
Second Hand News
Silver Springs
Tusk
Go Your Own Way
Don’t Stop
Songbird
Farmer’s Daughter
I meant the selection. Maybe she wanted to do Twisted, Sara, Straight Back, Crystal, or even Gold and Braid and Garbo and Lindsey said no. But then again, look at what she did in 2018: Dreams, Gypsy, Rhiannon, Gold Dust Woman, Landslide, and Storms (which was played live more times with Lindsey in 2009 - 80 to be exact whereas it was played 5 times in 2018) so really Stevie only did 5 of her own lead vocal/solely written songs on the last tour. From 97- 2015, we got Without You, Seven Wonders, Beautiful Child, Storms, Sisters of the Moon, Sweet Girl, Stand Back, Sara, Say You Will, and Goodbye Baby.

[jmn3]

I meant the selection. Maybe she wanted to do Twisted, Sara, Straight Back, Crystal, or even Gold and Braid and Garbo and Lindsey said no. But then again, look at what she did in 2018: Dreams, Gypsy, Rhiannon, Gold Dust Woman, Landslide, and Storms (which was played live more times with Lindsey in 2009 - 80 to be exact whereas it was played 5 times in 2018) so really Stevie only did 5 of her own lead vocal/solely written songs on the last tour. From 97- 2015, we got Without You, Seven Wonders, Beautiful Child, Storms, Sisters of the Moon, Sweet Girl, Stand Back, Sara, Say You Will, and Goodbye Baby.

That was the quintessential greatest hits setlist celebrating 20 years since Rumours and the reunification. They were never going to put anything off the wall into the set. That was during the time period when Sara was apparently off limits (it had been gone since brief appearances in 1988 until 2004). Twisted would have absolutely made sense for them to do in 1997 however.

[BigAl84]

Eh - I'm not sure it was really written about any one specific incident. Most likely based on a collection of grudges (some intensely exaggerated, of course!) collected by her as the end of The Dance tour wrapped.

2001:
Fall From Grace is really about Fleetwood Mac onstage— that’s always mostly going to be about me and Lindsey, just about our energy and what a trip it is to be in Fleetwood Mac and walk up there onstage. It’s just, it’s grand, you know? It’s a very grand thing. It’s nothing like your solo career.

Six of the songs from Shangri-la were written on the road. Among them were Love Changes and Fall From Grace, both of which, Nicks says, are “pretty much about” the band itself.

“Fall from Grace,” I wrote on the Fleetwood Mac reunion tour. Because that’s a great place to write, when you’re on tour and everything’s going really well, it’s very exciting; it’s like a big date. You know, it’s like very romantic, very, and you know you’re traveling. And of course, when you’re in Fleetwood Mac it’s a very big deal, so you get the best of everything in Fleetwood Mac. When we go to my solo career, it’s a little cut down, it’s a little cut down.

It’s a little discounted, you know. But the Fleetwood Mac thing is very big, so it’s a very fun place to write. And “Fall from Grace,” was really about um when, Lindsey and Mick and I go up on stage, and how, just how intense it is, you know. And how we do kinda feel like, you know, Queen Elisabeth, Prince Phillip, and Queen Edward, King Edward; oh man, he’s gonna kill me for Queen Edward. Um, it’s such a powerful thing, and when you get up there it’s just so magical and so strong. And so, somehow the poem for “Fall from Grace,” just came outta that.

2005

Fall From Grace was a formal full-on poem…you know ‘maybe I worked this hard just to make sure you survive’…this was something.. and it doesn’t really matter, of course, I wrote that poem about Lindsey and Lindsey knows that and he doesn’t care. He loves being inspirational and he is and I am to him. So we laugh about that. So I write these really, really heavy poems. I think I wrote most of that when we were out on the road on The Dance.

2009
Angry song. Probably my angriest song ever. But, it has…it’s angry like ‘don’t jump off that cliff, don’t be an idiot.’ But, at the same time it’s like ‘because I don’t want you to be hurt.’ [Interviewer’s blah, blah, blah]

No, that song’s about Lindsey. Oh yeah. That’s after the Dance. I wrote that in 1998, 1998-99 that’s right after the Dance. [Interviewer: So, he still knows the buttons to push.] Oh yeah, definitely. And he tries not to push them so much now because I really don’t like it and I don’t want to be angry with him now. But he knows how to get to me. But, I’m only saving him in that song. [Stevie quotes song, forgetting some words]

But it basically says, you know as angry as I am at you, I’m really only trying to help you. So at the end when it comes to the end it basically turns the whole thing around. Almost like he does on Never Going Back Again. when he says you know, “I”m never going back again” and blah blah blah but then he says ‘but come around and see me again.’ So Fall From Grace is kinda like that.

[David]

I like those words of hers, I tell ya, especially the way they’re sung.

And now alone in my room
As it all begins again (as it all begins again)
Was I so wrong
Why am I always so intense (always so intense)
In this same place I sit
The same place as before
Well I came all the way here
Just to watch you walk out that door

[Villavic]

just about our energy and what a trip it is to be in Fleetwood Mac and walk up there onstage. It’s just, it’s grand, you know? ...
And “Fall from Grace,” was really about um when, Lindsey and Mick and I go up on stage, and how, just how intense it is, you know...
He loves being inspirational and he is and I am to him. So we laugh about that. So I write these really, really heavy poems...
Angry song. Probably my angriest song ever...

No sarcasm pero I'm seriously thinking she may be bipolar.

[bombaysaffires]

well, when she talks about "saving Lindsey" .... from what??
it makes me think of the lines:

I choose to be his confidante
And to keep him from the fire
I choose to be quietly discrete
If that is his desire
I touch with gossamer wings
To be quiet around you
There is so much going on
You could easily
Wake up with a stranger
It's not something that you plan
But one night in a world of pain
And you finally understand
Not all the king's horses
Not all the king's men
Could put it back together..


What fire is she keeping him from?
And what's this night in a world of pain? A big fight?
And what's can't be put back together? Their relationship?


I didn't ask when you shook your head
I always accepted what you said
as the truth
and the truth only
Well it's not enough
that you depend on me
and it's not enough
that you say you love me
It's not enough
to just save face
Because sometimes...
You just fall from grace


what does he depend on her for? To stay with FM so they can play to bigger audiences and make more money and all that?
Who is trying to save face and why? Is it her covering for him and not revealing all his bad behavior towards her?


Maybe the reason I say these things
Is to bring you back alive
Ooo maybe I fought this long
and this hard just to
make sure you survive...
Make sure you survive.....


Who is she bringing back alive?
who is she making sure survives?
The band?? But she's very clear the song is about HIM specifically. So what is she helping him survive and why does she have to fight so hard?

[sleepless child]

Yea, very I interesting lyrics. You never know with her though what or who she is talking about. She has a habit of putting different times into one song. I think of EOS. The first verse is about Tom and Jane Petty. The last verse about her uncle dying. But she says the song is about John Lennon. I don't get that.

[SpyNote]

well, when she talks about "saving Lindsey" .... from what??

What fire is she keeping him from?
And what's this night in a world of pain? A big fight?
And what's can't be put back together? Their relationship?


what does he depend on her for? To stay with FM so they can play to bigger audiences and make more money and all that?
Who is trying to save face and why? Is it her covering for him and not revealing all his bad behavior towards her?


Who is she bringing back alive?
who is she making sure survives?
The band?? But she's very clear the song is about HIM specifically. So what is she helping him survive and why does she have to fight so hard?

Who knows. Their resentment is so deeped rooted now that all kinds of drama from the past get brought up in the heat of the moment.

I interpreted the surviving part to be Buckingham Nicks era when Stevie was working odd jobs to keep them afloat. So maybe the fight had regressed to something like, "Well, Stevie, you wouldn't be where you are now (i.e. success of The Dance) if I hadn't told Mick we were a package deal." So maybe that was her reply.

Lovers' fights always bring up unresolved issues because they inflict the most pain and hurt. I look at Lindsey's firing from the band as another example of a perceived slight escalating to a full-on war. Ultimately, I think both of them are to blame, Lindsey's passive aggressiveness and Stevie's hyper sensitivity are just a lethal combination.


For Christine, who was already pretty fed up with everything in his life at that point, their constant bickering was the straw that broke the camel's back and sealed the deal to leave the band forever (at the time).