The One Great Song on These Terrible Albums

[In Your Dreams]

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-song-on-terrible-album/

Fleetwood Mac, "I Do"
From: Time (1995)

No Lindsey Buckingham or Stevie Nicks? No problem! Actually, lots of problems. Thankfully, Christine McVie could still provide a reliably joy-filled chorus

[WalkAThinLine.]

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-song-on-terrible-album/

Fleetwood Mac, "I Do"
From: Time (1995)

No Lindsey Buckingham or Stevie Nicks? No problem! Actually, lots of problems. Thankfully, Christine McVie could still provide a reliably joy-filled chorus

Christine has a few other good songs on the album, particularly "Nights in Estoril" and "All Over Again", but I agree with this assessment. "I Do" is an absolute bop. It was one of my top played songs on Spotify last year.

[Villavic]

Christine has a few other good songs on the album

I agree. Was "I Do" the only single? Other Christine songs deserved to be singles.

[WalkAThinLine.]

I agree. Was "I Do" the only single? Other Christine songs deserved to be singles.

Yes, and it was a minor hit and Canada. Fleetwood Mac was actually relatively successful in Canada during the 1990s: Two songs, "Save Me" and "Paper Doll", were top ten singles there. "Skies the Limit" and "Silver Springs" hit the top 40 and three more songs ("Love is Dangerous", "I Do", and "The Chain") also charted.

[Villavic]

When this thread was posted and I read the title before clicking to enter, I supposed “These Terrible Albums” meant Behind the Mask and Time, since this is the Post Rumours forum. Not that I consider them terrible, but obviously they didn’t meet my expectations. Then I realized it was an article about different albums.

Having said that, I don’t find GREAT songs, but I do and Nights in Estoril are good ones. In general, I like very much Chistine songs in that album, and actually are the only ones I usually listen.

On the other hand, I do enjoy listening to almost all of BTM's songs. I do enjoy even Skies the Limit, though I’ve read harsh criticism about that song. My fave songs are Do You Know, ITBOMM and WTSGD. Yes, Save Me is not one of my faves.

[HomerMcvie]

When this thread was posted and I read the title before clicking to enter, I supposed “These Terrible Albums” meant Behind the Mask and Time, since this is the Post Rumours forum. Not that I consider them terrible, but obviously they didn’t meet my expectations. Then I realized it was an article about different albums.

Having said that, I don’t find GREAT songs, but I do and Nights in Estoril are good ones. In general, I like very much Chistine songs in that album, and actually are the only ones I usually listen.

On the other hand, I do enjoy listening to almost all of BTM's songs. I do enjoy even Skies the Limit, though I’ve read harsh criticism about that song. My fave songs are Do You Know, ITBOMM and WTSGD. Yes, Save Me is not one of my faves.

I absolutely LOVE Do You Know. I always have.

[Macfan4life]

When this thread was posted and I read the title before clicking to enter, I supposed “These Terrible Albums” meant Behind the Mask and Time, since this is the Post Rumours forum. Not that I consider them terrible, but obviously they didn’t meet my expectations. Then I realized it was an article about different albums.

Having said that, I don’t find GREAT songs, but I do and Nights in Estoril are good ones. In general, I like very much Chistine songs in that album, and actually are the only ones I usually listen.

On the other hand, I do enjoy listening to almost all of BTM's songs. I do enjoy even Skies the Limit, though I’ve read harsh criticism about that song. My fave songs are Do You Know, ITBOMM and WTSGD. Yes, Save Me is not one of my faves.
Ignore the haters. Skies the limit is a great song. I love everything about it INCLUDING the spelling!!!!!
Yes it was a song quickly thrown together and it shows. But IMHO it shows the talent of Chris because even in a pinch she can write and put down some great chords. Supposedly BTM was finished and after playback the consensus was the album was very dark and lacked the typical peppy Chris song. So they came up with Skies the limit quickly and threw it on the first track, side one. It has some great harmonies with the 4 singers too. I particularly like Chris's keyboard playing and Mick's cracking of the drums.

[jbrownsjr]

I've come full circle on Skies. It's really sung well, and the chorus is fantastic. Also, love Stevie on this song.

[SteveMacD]

BTM is what Old Spice would sound like if it was a rock album.

[WatchChain]

Behind the Mask?

Dead on arrival. I bought the cd on the day of its release, listened to it twice, and stored it away. It was a record full of duds and the magic was gone. There's nothing behind the mask but emptiness.

Then - I had to suffer through the 1990 tour when they decided to OPEN the show with "In the Back of My Mind". Stevie and Chris were wise to exit after this s*it show.

[HomerMcvie]

Behind the Mask?

Dead on arrival. I bought the cd on the day of its release, listened to it twice, and stored it away. It was a record full of duds and the magic was gone. There's nothing behind the mask but emptiness.

Then - I had to suffer through the 1990 tour when they decided to OPEN the show with "In the Back of My Mind". Stevie and Chris were wise to exit after this s*it show.

I enjoy Skies, Save Me, Love Is Dangerous, and Do You Know. The rest is cheap filler.

[Macfan4life]

Behind the Mask?

Dead on arrival. I bought the cd on the day of its release, listened to it twice, and stored it away. It was a record full of duds and the magic was gone. There's nothing behind the mask but emptiness.

Then - I had to suffer through the 1990 tour when they decided to OPEN the show with "In the Back of My Mind". Stevie and Chris were wise to exit after this s*it show.
Besides the OWTS tour, the 1990 was my favorite Mac tour. I was too young and never saw Tusk, Rumours, or Mirage. I am sure they would have been my favorite. It almost seemed Chris was the ring leader. It was raw, supporting new material, and the last of the arena rock sound from the band. While the Dance was exciting to have Lindsey back we got neutered Chain and a very scripted and tame set. I think in some ways Stevie's tranquilized self allowed her to fall behind the other members of the band. She was always seen as the "star" and focal point. They really seemed like a band. I was awestruck when I left the arena in 1990 and was sad it was coming to and end (so we thought). The band rocked with Isn't It Midnight among other songs.

[moon]

Hi! I'm taking it too late, but I think it's just in time...
Personally, it's a joke to know that I Do was the only single from Time, so it's sad to know that the press only writes its opinion based on it, without listening to the whole album.
Hollywood and Sooner Or Later were definitely the best songs of Chris from that album, and probably some of the best from her career. In fact, they're longer than the rest, but not because of that, they're worse than the only single we had...
Just an opinion!

[WalkAThinLine.]

Hi! I'm taking it too late, but I think it's just in time...
Personally, it's a joke to know that I Do was the only single from Time, so it's sad to know that the press only writes its opinion based on it, without listening to the whole album.
Hollywood and Sooner Or Later were definitely the best songs of Chris from that album, and probably some of the best from her career. In fact, they're longer than the rest, but not because of that, they're worse than the only single we had...
Just an opinion!

We seem to have divergent opinions on this. I find that "I Do", "Nights in Estoril", and "All Over Again" are her best songs on the album. "Sooner or Later" and "Hollywood" are ambling compositions that could have benefited from some pruning.

[SteveMacD]

We seem to have divergent opinions on this. I find that "I Do", "Nights in Estoril", and "All Over Again" are her best songs on the album. "Sooner or Later" and "Hollywood" are ambling compositions that could have benefited from some pruning.

Completely agree. “Hollywood” never did much for me, but “Sooner or Later” would have been way better if it had been half as long and it would have still gotten the point across.

[cascade13]

I've always liked "I Do" -- I've listened to it a few hundred times over the years -- but I think it's a safe, easy choice for that article. Reading the summary, it seems the author just followed two steps. 1) Don't bother considering the other three singers/songwriters because they're not Stevie and Lindsey. 2) Pick the Christine song that sounds the most like a Rumours-era track (a choice that was even easier because that was the only single from the album).

It would have been more interesting to me for the author to step outside the box a bit, especially outside Christine's five songs. "Winds of Change" and "Dreaming the Dream" were always my favorite among Billy, Bekka, and Dave songs. Certainly on par with "I Do" in my mind. Solid guitar work, unusually restrained (for her) but resonant vocals from Bekka, great backing vocals on the former, and steady-as-usual work from Mick and John on that one, too.

Since they didn't comment on BTM, I won't either...except to say I'd have loved to have heard the Rumours lineup's take on "Save Me."

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-song-on-terrible-album/

Fleetwood Mac, "I Do"
From: Time (1995)

No Lindsey Buckingham or Stevie Nicks? No problem! Actually, lots of problems. Thankfully, Christine McVie could still provide a reliably joy-filled chorus

[aleuzzi]

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/great-song-on-terrible-album/

Fleetwood Mac, "I Do"
From: Time (1995)

No Lindsey Buckingham or Stevie Nicks? No problem! Actually, lots of problems. Thankfully, Christine McVie could still provide a reliably joy-filled chorus

huh--I guess I disagree with the premise. TIME is no masterpiece, certainly. But there are about seven or eight really good tunes on it. It's more of a matter of the end result lacking cohesion. But hey, that was the problem with PENGUIN, too, and that's one of my favorite albums.

Anyway, the songs from Time that I think hold up VERY well are:

Talking to My Heart
Winds of Change
Nothing Without You
Nights in Estoril
Hollywood
All Over Again
Sooner or Later
Got it In For You

Ironically, the only Christine song I don't like is "I Do." She sings it well and it's solidly put together, but the arrangement is pretty bland.

[Villavic]

TIME is no masterpiece, certainly. But there are about seven or eight really good tunes on it. It's more of a matter of the end result lacking cohesion. But hey, that was the problem with PENGUIN, too, and that's one of my favorite albums.


I agree, but Penguin and Time have completely different predecessors and came in different times. After the huge trajectory of the Rumours lineup, one expected a far better album. But that was impossible for obvious reasons.

[aleuzzi]

I agree, but Penguin and Time have completely different predecessors and came in different times. After the huge trajectory of the Rumours lineup, one expected a far better album. But that was impossible for obvious reasons.

I don’t think people expected a far better album. What they wanted was Stevie Nicks somewhere on it. Without her or Lindsey, they shut their ears. TIME is for a number of diehard fans a better album than MASK, which was the REAL disappointment coming after TANGO. In 1995, no one was talking about FM anymore. Few even knew the album was released.

Song for song TIME stacks up in a way few people are willing to acknowledge.

[aleuzzi]

Hi! I'm taking it too late, but I think it's just in time...
Personally, it's a joke to know that I Do was the only single from Time, so it's sad to know that the press only writes its opinion based on it, without listening to the whole album.
Hollywood and Sooner Or Later were definitely the best songs of Chris from that album, and probably some of the best from her career.

Agreed! People were/are not willing to listen to TIME with objective ears. I also think the Billy/Bekka opening “Talking to My Heart” is damn good.

[aleuzzi]

I've come full circle on Skies. It's really sung well, and the chorus is fantastic. Also, love Stevie on this song.

And this is where I say “huh?!” and insist Temporary One is a great tune, and you say “huh?!” and we go round and round…

But, as Christine once sang, “it sure feels nice.”

[Villavic]

Resurrecting this thread because of the word "terrible". Unlike the article in the original publication, which discusses various bands, I found this other one—published just three days ago—in which Christine describes Time and BTM as terrible and expresses the opinion that no one liked them. Does anybody know when did she say that? No surprise she thought that about the albums, specially Time, but I don't remember reading that interview before nor that she was so explicit in saying so.

Christine reveals the 2 albums she called terrible (https://cnews.danhngon.pro/blog/96phbb)

[Mr Scarrott]

Resurrecting this thread because of the word "terrible". Unlike the article in the original publication, which discusses various bands, I found this other one—published just three days ago—in which Christine describes Time and BTM as terrible and expresses the opinion that no one liked them. Does anybody know when did she say that? No surprise she thought that about the albums, specially Time, but I don't remember reading that interview before nor that she was so explicit in saying so.

Christine reveals the 2 albums she called terrible (https://cnews.danhngon.pro/blog/96phbb)


It was 2017

https://www.mojo4music.com/articles/stories/christine-mcvie-remembered/

What was the trigger for leaving Fleetwood Mac in 1998? Did it have anything to do with the Mac albums that preceded it, Behind The Mask (1990) and Time (’95)?

I don’t think anyone likes those albums. They’re terrible. They’re scrubbed under the carpet. Did they have anything to do with it? Yeah, very possibly. Dave Mason [ex Traffic guitarist/vocalist, who joined the Mac from 1993 to ’95] and I did not get along, and I thought the music was suffering. I think Mick thought it was the end of the road as well, for the first time. Also, I was more gone than them during the making of Time. Emotionally not there, physically not here. I just didn’t show up. I left Mick and John holding the baby. I couldn’t bear watching it all fall apart. And I couldn’t keep peace with Dave Mason, I’m afraid. It was very acrimonious with him and I just bailed. Mick and John were OK. Also, I was tired of living out of a suitcase, tired of travel, plus I had a fear of flying. I’d been doing it longer than Stevie and Lindsey and I’d just had enough. Plus, my father was really sick and I wanted to come back to England and rediscover my roots and I was quite adamant that this was what I wanted to do.


Christine's father Cyril died in 1990, by the way. Recollections may vary...

I'm glad that All over again finally did get a live outing, with Stevie singing along as well. It's a beautiful, simple song and a fine way to say goodbye, even if it did turn out to be a temporary one.

[Villavic]

It was 2017

https://www.mojo4music.com/articles/stories/christine-mcvie-remembered/


So sad that she was so right when she gave that last answer Everything has come right. But, don't forget, this is Fleetwood Mac.

So true that when the time came, those T-shirts he had proposed could no longer be worn.

[Villavic]

Checking Bob's book he mentioned what John told him about the 1990 "terrible" (according to Chris) album.

On January 15, 1989 the band, with new members Rick and Billy, went into the studios to start work on the next, post- Tango In The Night album. John McVie told me that the new album was even better than Tango, and so it proved to be.

In promotional interviews, artists often praise their latest work, sometimes even saying it's the best they've ever done. But if these words were during a private conversation, it is worth analyzing why he said that. It was most likely easier to record the album because there were fewer conflicts than during Tango sessions. But let's face it John, I like BTM but it was not better than Tango.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Ignore the haters. Skies the limit is a great song. I love everything about it INCLUDING the spelling!!!!!
Yes it was a song quickly thrown together and it shows. But IMHO it shows the talent of Chris because even in a pinch she can write and put down some great chords. Supposedly BTM was finished and after playback the consensus was the album was very dark and lacked the typical peppy Chris song. So they came up with Skies the limit quickly and threw it on the first track, side one. It has some great harmonies with the 4 singers too. I particularly like Chris's keyboard playing and Mick's cracking of the drums.

i have an old audio interview w chris from BTM time and she had this to say about Skies the Limit-- i don't think the album was finished but they were a few songs in when stevie (who obviously hadn't been there much) decided it sounded dark...

"That was actually written as a consequence of Stevie coming in one day and saying, "These songs are so depressing!!" Because I think we'd recorded hard feelings and I think we recorded a couple of others-- love is dangerous, and behind the mask, and she'd heard like a whole string of songs that, back-to-back had a kind of a dark side, you know, so we sort of sat around kind of tended to agree with her that it was a bit serious vibe, you know, when you hear them like that. So I went home and I said to my husband, 'we're going to write a happy song. Now what constitutes a happy line?' and I just thought the sky's the limit. And we just went from there. The song ended up being not so much of a love song but a kind of anthem to the band. You know, the words are very dual, double-edged sword kind of thing. You can take it as being with a romantic context, or not, and the words kind of read as sort of a tribute to the new band if you like."

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

i have an old audio interview w chris from BTM time and she had this to say about Skies the Limit-- i don't think the album was finished but they were a few songs in when stevie (who obviously hadn't been there much) decided it sounded dark...

"That was actually written as a consequence of Stevie coming in one day and saying, "These songs are so depressing!!" Because I think we'd recorded hard feelings and I think we recorded a couple of others-- love is dangerous, and behind the mask, and she'd heard like a whole string of songs that, back-to-back had a kind of a dark side, you know, so we sort of sat around kind of tended to agree with her that it was a bit serious vibe, you know, when you hear them like that. So I went home and I said to my husband, 'we're going to write a happy song. Now what constitutes a happy line?' and I just thought the sky's the limit. And we just went from there. The song ended up being not so much of a love song but a kind of anthem to the band. You know, the words are very dual, double-edged sword kind of thing. You can take it as being with a romantic context, or not, and the words kind of read as sort of a tribute to the new band if you like."

--Lis
A few years before Chris's passing she called BTM suicide music because the album was so dark. Personally I like that about the album with it also being relatively non-commercial.
Notice that Skies The Limit is the only song that has authentic harmonies from all 4 singers. Its another indication how late the song came in the process. Stevie was layered in on the end of Save Me and even for the title track and When The Sun Goes Down. Like Tango she was barely there and on her solo tour.

[Macfan4life]

Checking Bob's book he mentioned what John told him about the 1990 "terrible" (according to Chris) album.

On January 15, 1989 the band, with new members Rick and Billy, went into the studios to start work on the next, post- Tango In The Night album. John McVie told me that the new album was even better than Tango, and so it proved to be.

In promotional interviews, artists often praise their latest work, sometimes even saying it's the best they've ever done. But if these words were during a private conversation, it is worth analyzing why he said that. It was most likely easier to record the album because there were fewer conflicts than during Tango sessions. But let's face it John, I like BTM but it was not better than Tango.
In 1990 Stevie called BTM her favorite Fleetwood Mac album.

[Penguin Emeritus]

In 1990 Stevie called BTM her favorite Fleetwood Mac album.

I think i actually like it a bit better than Tango myself. it has a nicer vibe.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

I think i actually like it a bit better than Tango myself. it has a nicer vibe.

--Lis
It has more soul than Tango. I love Chris's keyboard playing on BTM. In a BTM promo interview Chris said she loved to hear John's bass thumping, and Mick playing drums again. I don't think she was dissing Tango but I know what she meant. Many songs on Tango used programmed bass or keyboards. As much as I like BTM I think Stevie's songs are worse than Tango. Freedom is ok but Second Time and Affairs of the Heart are probably my least favorite songs she wrote and they are on the same album.

[Villavic]

In 1990 Stevie called BTM her favorite Fleetwood Mac album.

Well that shouldn't surprise me, should it? She was surely very proud of her BTM song that reached #1. :rolleyes:

I wonder if when Stevie said that, Chris said she loved to hear John's bass thumping and Mick playing drums again, and John told Bob BTM was better than Tango, all those phrase were a message to Lindsey while they were upset with him because of the way he left the band, kind of... "see, we didn't need you".

IMHO, history did not confirm some of those phrases. But I understand their angry at that moment.

[Macfan4life]

Well that shouldn't surprise me, should it? She was surely very proud of her BTM song that reached #1. :rolleyes:

I wonder if when Stevie said that, Chris said she loved to hear John's bass thumping and Mick playing drums again, and John told Bob BTM was better than Tango, all those phrase were a message to Lindsey while they were upset with him because of the way he left the band, kind of... "see, we didn't you".

IMHO, history did not confirm some of those phrases. But I understand their angry at that moment.
I do not believe Stevie meant it but was a way to promote the album and say "we are fine without Lindsey." Chris praised the album too during release but 30 years later called it suicide music. Half the album is really good. The other half meh with a few bad apples. It needed some good and powerful Stevie songs. Hey, it went to #1 in the UK and Greece.
Because Stevie was sick their 1988 Australian tour was cancelled. The band promised to make it up to Australia next time. They did. They started their BTM tour in Australia and Japan. Sadly when they got to the states Save Me was already falling out of the top 40 after barely creeping in. By the time they got to the States to tour the album was already tanking on the charts. Then Chris's dad died and everything had to be rescheduled.

[SteveMacD]

As much as I absolutely adored Christine, she was meant to be an equal. She wasn’t supposed to be THE driving force. Stevie was gonzo, Billy was too corporate, and the rest were just kind of there. Rick and Bekka had a lot of potential, but it just didn’t happen.

[Villavic]

Billy was too corporate, .

This isn't clear to me, why was too corporate?

[WalkAThinLine.]

i have an old audio interview w chris from BTM time and she had this to say about Skies the Limit-- i don't think the album was finished but they were a few songs in when stevie (who obviously hadn't been there much) decided it sounded dark...

"That was actually written as a consequence of Stevie coming in one day and saying, "These songs are so depressing!!" Because I think we'd recorded hard feelings and I think we recorded a couple of others-- love is dangerous, and behind the mask, and she'd heard like a whole string of songs that, back-to-back had a kind of a dark side, you know, so we sort of sat around kind of tended to agree with her that it was a bit serious vibe, you know, when you hear them like that. So I went home and I said to my husband, 'we're going to write a happy song. Now what constitutes a happy line?' and I just thought the sky's the limit. And we just went from there. The song ended up being not so much of a love song but a kind of anthem to the band. You know, the words are very dual, double-edged sword kind of thing. You can take it as being with a romantic context, or not, and the words kind of read as sort of a tribute to the new band if you like."

--Lis

Is this an interview she did with Mary Turner? Is there any way you could post the audio somewhere?