View Full Version : Rhiannon intro
Villavic
09-13-2023, 08:49 AM
I was watching this Rhiannon clip from the Live 1982 US Festival (Fifth date of the Mirage tour). What caught my attention was the long and cool intro. I think it’s the longest Rhiannon intro I’ve heard (almost one minute). This intro is not in the Live at the Forum, Los Angeles included in the Deluxe edition. It is not in the video either. Was it cut or they actually didn’t play it?
Is this Rhiannon (or other songs) US festival version available in any audio edition?
The one at the Rumours {35th Anniversary Expanded Edition) or the (Live at Tucson, 8/28/80) from Tusk Deluxe are a bit similar but longs just around 15 seconds. I think this US Festival is one of the coolest intro I’ve heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCwKDgiDuVY
Macfan4life
09-13-2023, 11:31 AM
The Chain was much longer at the US Festival too :lol:
I don't think it was a typical Mirage show.
I remember Rick Vito gave the song a small different intro on the 1990 tour. Stevie added a piano intro in 1981. It appears the song has had various intros over the years.
I love everything about the Mirage tour except Rhiannon. Its my least favorite live version. It seems slower compared to past tours.
David
09-13-2023, 12:58 PM
I was watching this Rhiannon clip from the Live 1982 US Festival (Fifth date of the Mirage tour). What caught my attention was the long and cool intro. I think it’s the longest Rhiannon intro I’ve heard (almost one minute). This intro is not in the Live at the Forum, Los Angeles included in the Deluxe edition. It is not in the video either. Was it cut or they actually didn’t play it? You’re talking about the little toneless rhythm thing Lindsey does on the guitar? It was cut from the video. You can hear him do that on the unedited audio recordings — Oakland, Memphis, Alpine Valley, East Rutherford, Irvine, and so on. He does a little of that chugga-chugga on several songs in concert, even as far back as 1975. I guess you just strum with your right hand while your left hand partially tamps down on the neck to deaden any actual tone — maybe a guitarist can correct me (Dave? Seteca?). If it serves any purpose at all, it’s probably just to set the tempo and pump the audience a little. Consider the long lead-up to “Go Your Own Way” on the 1980 Live album. It’s a rave-up.
Is this Rhiannon (or other songs) US festival version available in any audio edition? There’s an audience tape and a soundboard tape. The latter is not quite complete, only 14 tracks. Want me to post them for you?
mylittledemon
09-13-2023, 01:46 PM
I was watching this Rhiannon clip from the Live 1982 US Festival (Fifth date of the Mirage tour). What caught my attention was the long and cool intro. I think it’s the longest Rhiannon intro I’ve heard (almost one minute).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCwKDgiDuVY
Interesting! I've never seen that clip before. After watching it though, it struck me as less of an intro and more like them playing for time as Stevie was offstage readying her Rhiannon outfit 🤔
Macfan4life
09-13-2023, 02:05 PM
Since I mentioned it. This is Rick's little intro. It was nice to hear them put their own spin on things compared to the 1987 tour when they were new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdDH0fKlDfo
And since we are talking Rhiannon intros. The only time Stevie never had an intro on a solo tour was Timepsace in 1991. Les just cranked it up right away with the Rhiannon riffs. It was a nice touch and unexpected since that intro was played to death on her earlier tours. Her current tour has an intro? I have not kept up.
David
09-13-2023, 02:57 PM
I think it’s the longest Rhiannon intro I’ve heard (almost one minute).
Check around, Villavic. Oakland is about one-and-a-half minutes.
https://youtu.be/nn-Fr25R5fs?t=1391
I don’t think it ever occurred to anyone to clock these before. You’re a first, dear. :xoxo:
David
09-13-2023, 02:59 PM
Since I mentioned it. This is Rick's little intro. It was nice to hear them put their own spin on things compared to the 1987 tour when they were new.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdDH0fKlDfo
I recall that Rick played some blues guitar to lead-in. He’s a guy who really lives and breathes blues, that Rick. Hello, Rick, if you’re out there!
I love everything about the Mirage tour except Rhiannon. Its my least favorite live version. It seems slower compared to past tours.
You don’t change! I don’t change!!
Macfan4life
09-13-2023, 04:24 PM
You don’t change! I don’t change!!
Its really all the same.
I will take the klonopin "will you take me with you" any day over the I dont change, you don't change
jbrownsjr
09-13-2023, 04:33 PM
Its really all the same.
I will take the klonopin "will you take me with you" any day over the I dont change, you don't change
F(&(*&)(*&ADJOIEFJDAOIFJOIJ209854908)*_)*^&(^*HP
(breath)
FLJAF90_)*_)(*)IJVC:OJ:OEIOIFOIOIRJOIJOIHJ!!!
(throws the mic)
Its really all the same.
I will take the klonopin "will you take me with you" any day over the I dont change, you don't change
What a silly dreamer. Dream on. Mirage Rhiannon has its place. It’s quirky with those lyric changes and still has the good arrangement with the solo. But her vocals are definitely on the decline. I don’t think she captured a “good” Rhiannon again until 1994
F(&(*&)(*&ADJOIEFJDAOIFJOIJ209854908)*_)*^&(^*HP
(breath)
FLJAF90_)*_)(*)IJVC:OJ:OEIOIFOIOIRJOIJOIHJ!!!
(throws the mic)
Lol throws the mic. I immediately pictured what you’re referencing
jbrownsjr
09-13-2023, 06:03 PM
Lol throws the mic. I immediately pictured what you’re referencing
Get out of my head!!!! :p
Villavic
09-13-2023, 06:18 PM
Check around, Villavic. Oakland is about one-and-a-half minutes.
https://youtu.be/nn-Fr25R5fs?t=1391
I hadn't heard it! It's cool too. Though yes her voice was very low in that tour.
bombaysaffires
09-13-2023, 06:44 PM
Check around, Villavic. Oakland is about one-and-a-half minutes.
https://youtu.be/nn-Fr25R5fs?t=1391
I don’t think it ever occurred to anyone to clock these before. You’re a first, dear. :xoxo:
Giving her time to freshen her powder......:shocked:
Not a fan of whatever that effect is on his guitar.... some sort of reverb or something... blech
Giving her time to freshen her powder......:shocked:
Not a fan of whatever that effect is on his guitar.... some sort of reverb or something... blech
I have no idea what it is technically but I call it “mirage tour Lindsey guitar” since it seems whatever it is is prevalent throughout the shows from that tour.
I don’t hate it and what I do like is that it’s one of those ways that the older tours/shows were distinguishable from one and other. As opposed to the modern era when Lindsey’s guitar sound from 2003 is essentially unchanged from 2015 or 2021.
Get out of my head!!!! :p
Nooo baby noooo!
jbrownsjr
09-14-2023, 07:58 AM
I have no idea what it is technically but I call it “mirage tour Lindsey guitar” since it seems whatever it is is prevalent throughout the shows from that tour.
I don’t hate it and what I do like is that it’s one of those ways that the older tours/shows were distinguishable from one and other. As opposed to the modern era when Lindsey’s guitar sound from 2003 is essentially unchanged from 2015 or 2021.
Agree, I love the Mirage sound in general. Now, it's just generic.
WatchChain
09-14-2023, 07:08 PM
Speaking of Rhiannon intros - when did Stevie drop the spoken word intro?
What tour includes the last known spoken intro of "This is a song about a Welsh Witch"?
Speaking of Rhiannon intros - when did Stevie drop the spoken word intro?
What tour includes the last known spoken intro of "This is a song about a Welsh Witch"?
I feel like that had to have ended by the end of the Rumours Tour
jbrownsjr
09-17-2023, 11:55 AM
Speaking of Rhiannon intros - when did Stevie drop the spoken word intro?
What tour includes the last known spoken intro of "This is a song about a Welsh Witch"?
It's on the Live album 1980, but not Mirage tour.
Macfan4life
09-17-2023, 02:32 PM
It's on the Live album 1980, but not Mirage tour.
But was not the Live album version taken from the Rumours tour?
jbrownsjr
09-17-2023, 02:57 PM
But was not the Live album version taken from the Rumours tour?
That's possible. I do know some of those tracks are from the Rumors tour. I just forget which ones.
That's possible. I do know some of those tracks are from the Rumors tour. I just forget which ones.
The Live album Rhiannon is definitely Rumours Tour era.
jbrownsjr
09-18-2023, 07:17 AM
The Live album Rhiannon is definitely Rumours Tour era.
It's really evolved at that point. They nailed it on the LIVE album.
Villavic
09-18-2023, 08:47 AM
The Live album Rhiannon is definitely Rumours Tour era.
The CD book mentions Rhiannon - London. No dates are specified in any song.
But the Amazon and Wikipedia pages mention London 1980; actually Wikipedia says Rhiannon - 6/26/80, Wembley Arena, London. No source specified, I always try to find the original source cause Wikipedia is not always accurate.
On both web pages there is no mention of Rumours tour in any song. However Don't let me down agian says 10/17/75, Capitol Theater, Passaic in Wikipedia, but in Amazon it says Live 1980, Passaic, NJ, so obviously these pages are not completely reliable.
Now, how can we be sure Rhiannon was from Rumours tour? Did you find any reliable source, video, etc.?
Macfan4life
09-18-2023, 08:55 AM
The CD book mentions Rhiannon - London. No dates are specified in any song.
But the Amazon and Wikipedia pages mention London 1980; actually Wikipedia says Rhiannon - 6/26/80, Wembley Arena, London. No source specified, I always try to find the original source cause Wikipedia is not always accurate.
On both web pages there is no mention of Rumours tour in any song. However Don't let me down agian says 10/17/75, Capitol Theater, Passaic in Wikipedia, but in Amazon it says Live 1980, Passaic, NJ, so obviously these pages are not completely reliable.
Now, how can we be sure Rhiannon was from Rumours tour? Did you find any reliable source, video, etc.?
Its been mentioned many times here how wrong the Live book is. Over My Head is also from an earlier tour (not 1980). I dont know why but Fleetwood Mac always messes these things up just like when they released the Tusk chain live yet it was from Mirage.
Stevie stopped introducing the Welch Witch after the Rumours tour. Over My Head was not even performed on the Tusk tour. There is no better live version of Rhiannon than the Rumours tour so I understand why it was selected for the 1980 Live album.
jbrownsjr
09-18-2023, 09:05 AM
Its been mentioned many times here how wrong the Live book is. Over My Head is also from an earlier tour (not 1980). I dont know why but Fleetwood Mac always messes these things up just like when they released the Tusk chain live yet it was from Mirage.
Stevie stopped introducing the Welch Witch after the Rumours tour. Over My Head was not even performed on the Tusk tour. There is no better live version of Rhiannon than the Rumours tour so I understand why it was selected for the 1980 Live album.
It's definitely my favorite live version.
Macfan4life
09-18-2023, 10:58 AM
It's definitely my favorite live version.
The Live album also has (IMHO)
The best Over My Head
The best I'm So Afraid
The best Oh Well (sorry Peter, Billy, and Mike)
The best Sara (until I found out it was touched)
The best Rhiannon
Villavic
09-18-2023, 11:19 AM
The Live album also has (IMHO)
The best Over My Head
Definitely!
jbrownsjr
09-18-2023, 12:30 PM
That OMH is my fav, too. That sounds like a Rumours tour, also.
David
09-18-2023, 01:25 PM
Now, how can we be sure Rhiannon was from Rumours tour? Did you find any reliable source, video, etc.?
Lindsey is playing a Les Paul.
Christine is playing a Hohner Pianet.
The cuts that are not from the 1979–80 tour are:
Monday Morning
Say You Love Me
Dreams
Over My Head
Rhiannon
Don’t Let Me Down Again
Don’t Stop
The CD book mentions Rhiannon - London. No dates are specified in any song.
But the Amazon and Wikipedia pages mention London 1980; actually Wikipedia says Rhiannon - 6/26/80, Wembley Arena, London. No source specified, I always try to find the original source cause Wikipedia is not always accurate.
On both web pages there is no mention of Rumours tour in any song. However Don't let me down agian says 10/17/75, Capitol Theater, Passaic in Wikipedia, but in Amazon it says Live 1980, Passaic, NJ, so obviously these pages are not completely reliable.
Now, how can we be sure Rhiannon was from Rumours tour? Did you find any reliable source, video, etc.?
Years of listening to bootlegs and recordings of so many concerts that I couldn’t keep count. The sound of the band, Stevie’s voice, they are dead giveaways that the recording is from 1977 and definitely not 1979-80.
Macfan4life
09-18-2023, 04:11 PM
Years of listening to bootlegs and recordings of so many concerts that I couldn’t keep count. The sound of the band, Stevie’s voice, they are dead giveaways that the recording is from 1977 and definitely not 1979-80.
Yes very true. A few months ago Jeremy had his panel discussing this album. Some on the panel kept saying "this sounds like Rumours tour" yet they were reading from the booklet. I wanted to chime in and say, you guys are right with what you are hearing...because IT IS the Rumours tour.
Stevie's background vocals on Over My Head are so early Stevie and so good.
jbrownsjr
09-18-2023, 06:39 PM
Yes very true. A few months ago Jeremy had his panel discussing this album. Some on the panel kept saying "this sounds like Rumours tour" yet they were reading from the booklet. I wanted to chime in and say, you guys are right with what you are hearing...because IT IS the Rumours tour.
Stevie's background vocals on Over My Head are so early Stevie and so good.
It's crazy, but I have so many versions of both tours, I have to think about it.
However, the difference between Tusk Live and Mirage live is unmistakable.
It's crazy, but I have so many versions of both tours, I have to think about it.
However, the difference between Tusk Live and Mirage live is unmistakable.
Stevie’s voice starts to deteriorate later in the Rumours Tour and definitely in the 1978 shows. It’s very noticeable on Rhiannon from ‘76/early ‘77 compared to later in that tour.
Rhiannon from 1975-1982 really encapsulates for me what made Stevie such an interesting live performer. The band took a relatively polished and calm song on record and cranked it up to be a true tour de force on stage and Stevie just owned the F out of those 7-9 minutes every night. Even as the voice deteriorated, she still made the performance interesting (along with the entire band - they were on fire!).
What they’ve done with Rhiannon in the “modern” era (since 1997) is a joke in comparison. It’s a pathetic shell of its former self and neither Fleetwood Mac or her solo band have made it even remotely interesting for at least 20 years.
jbrownsjr
09-18-2023, 07:06 PM
Stevie’s voice starts to deteriorate later in the Rumours Tour and definitely in the 1978 shows. It’s very noticeable on Rhiannon from ‘76/early ‘77 compared to later in that tour.
Rhiannon from 1975-1982 really encapsulates for me what made Stevie such an interesting live performer. The band took a relatively polished and calm song on record and cranked it up to be a true tour de force on stage and Stevie just owned the F out of those 7-9 minutes every night. Even as the voice deteriorated, she still made the performance interesting (along with the entire band - they were on fire!).
What they’ve done with Rhiannon in the “modern” era (since 1997) is a joke in comparison. It’s a pathetic shell of its former self and neither Fleetwood Mac or her solo band have made it even remotely interesting for at least 20 years.
Everything you said. I will add that I loved Christine's piano intro during the Dance. Also, can't forget Sisters of the Moon.
Gypsy will never ever be as good as studio.
Everything you said. I will add that I loved Christine's piano intro during the Dance. Also, can't forget Sisters of the Moon.
Gypsy will never ever be as good as studio.
Agree that Chris’s piano intro in 1997 was a nice touch and though Stevie’s solo band had done that many times before, I prefer the subtle Christine touch versus how it had been done beforehand. Sisters also cooked but I’d still put Rhiannon (especially those first few years) ahead of it - simply because I think it’s a better song. Though they gave Sisters basically the same treatment live with the solos and extended outro.
Gypsy is maybe one of their best studio works ever. It’s sublime. It will never compare in a live setting. Whereas songs like Rhiannon, Sisters, GYOW, The Chain, etc can, IMO, be preferable in a live setting, Gypsy is more like a typical Christine song - perfect in the studio and hard to improve upon live.
bombaysaffires
09-18-2023, 09:53 PM
Stevie’s voice starts to deteriorate later in the Rumours Tour and definitely in the 1978 shows. It’s very noticeable on Rhiannon from ‘76/early ‘77 compared to later in that tour.
Rhiannon from 1975-1982 really encapsulates for me what made Stevie such an interesting live performer. The band took a relatively polished and calm song on record and cranked it up to be a true tour de force on stage and Stevie just owned the F out of those 7-9 minutes every night. Even as the voice deteriorated, she still made the performance interesting (along with the entire band - they were on fire!).
What they’ve done with Rhiannon in the “modern” era (since 1997) is a joke in comparison. It’s a pathetic shell of its former self and neither Fleetwood Mac or her solo band have made it even remotely interesting for at least 20 years.
I'd say it went lame by 1981...it was pretty lame on the Bella Donna tour....I mean, I really liked that she added in the piano intro with Roy Bittan to show more of how the song sounded as she wrote it, and then switched it into the version everyone knew. But it was no longer a rocking version ... it was a really sort of adult contemporary version. And it's been that way ever since.... just getting slower and slower with each decade.
BrownEyedGirl26
09-18-2023, 09:53 PM
Its really all the same.
I will take the klonopin "will you take me with you" any day over the I dont change, you don't change
Yes Macfan4life, I prefer the "Will you take me with you?",
over the "I don't change, you don't change," versions of the song. :wavey:
SteveMacD
09-19-2023, 01:32 AM
Lindsey is playing a Les Paul.
Christine is playing a Hohner Pianet.
The cuts that are not from the 1979–80 tour are:
Monday Morning
Say You Love Me
Dreams
Over My Head
Rhiannon
Don’t Let Me Down Again
Don’t Stop
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs.
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
Macfan4life
09-19-2023, 04:55 AM
Yes Macfan4life, I prefer the "Will you take me with you?",
over the "I don't change, you don't change," versions of the song. :wavey:
YES!
One of the few klonopin era songs that was really good live. Her band rocked the hell out of Rhiannon.
I would hardly call her 1981 version lame (someone else said that). Roy's intro was beautiful and Waddy really created a rocking bouncer. It lost its power on her next tours but it still packed a punch. I feel after her solo version she did not know where to take the song in 1982. We got coke fueled speaking in tongues for Sisters but her talking and going through the motions at the end of Rhiannon "I dont change, you dont change" She did the same thing in 1987 for a rare early Tango tour version. But that's understandable since she was off coke. I love all Mirage concert songs except Rhiannon. Its slow and she seems to struggle and wonder through it. It should have been just as outrageous as her 1982 Sisters but it falls flat for me.
jbrownsjr
09-19-2023, 07:59 AM
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs.
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
But, you love that Over and Over made it, no?
Villavic
09-19-2023, 08:38 AM
What they’ve done with Rhiannon in the “modern” era (since 1997) is a joke in comparison. It’s a pathetic shell of its former self and neither Fleetwood Mac or her solo band have made it even remotely interesting for at least 20 years.
I remember I read in 1997 Stevie had a voice therapist to recover her voice and be in good shape for The Dance shows. Well obviously "recover" didn't mean to get her 70s voice again, but I understood she would have a decent nice voice. And IMHO she did. I loved her performances of SS and Landslide.
Her voice was far better than... for example, that 1987 Silent Night performance that never listened again and it's forbidden in my personal playlists, Ipod, etc.
So, a Rhiannon song that sounded like the 70s was impossible in 1997. It wouldn't sound good, and probably her voice therapist told her Don't do that! Then the energic act we used to see in the 70s was gone too. So I found The Dance Rhiannon a fine performance, taking in count years had passed and she had take care of her voice.
Mick mentions the Rhiannon performances and Stevie's excessive abuse singing it several times, just picked two of them:
we took her friend Robin Anderson, a voice therapist, on the road with us to try to train Stevie to use her voice differently. But it was like trying to tame a wild thing. Every night, at the climactic end of "Rhiannon," Stevie would rip her voice to shreds. It was a sacrifice she chose to make for her art.
....
When Stevie's voice cracked dangerously during "Rhiannon," she turned to Lindsey and hid her face behind the microphone. Eight months of touring was beginning to take its toll on all of us.
...
Also in Dallas, Stevie took "Rhiannon" to its outermost limits, chanting "Is this what you want from me?" during the crashing finale of the song.
Villavic
09-19-2023, 08:42 AM
But, you love that Over and Over made it, no?
I do. However if it ended up on that over SHN or YMLF, I thought it probably was for still promoting the Tusk album (it was 1980). However if that's right, I don't know how they didn't chose the Tusk song.
Macfan4life
09-19-2023, 09:09 AM
But, you love that Over and Over made it, no?
Putting Over and Over on the Live album would be my pick for the best decision the band ever made. OMG the live version takes the song to another level. I cant even imagine me never hearing the live version in such quality. The album version is ok but the live version is off the chain. Its funny but sad when Chris introduces something new from Tusk and the audience is silent. Bruce fans, Rolling Stones fans, or any other band's fans would applaud any new song off the new album.
2 years later: Lindsey introduces a song from Tusk and Chris says to the audience "the album you guys hated" :lol:
I remember I read in 1997 Stevie had a voice therapist to recover her voice and be in good shape for The Dance shows. Well obviously "recover" didn't mean to get her 70s voice again, but I understood she would have a decent nice voice. And IMHO she did. I loved her performances of SS and Landslide.
Her voice was far better than... for example, that 1987 Silent Night performance that never listened again and it's forbidden in my personal playlists, Ipod, etc.
So, a Rhiannon song that sounded like the 70s was impossible in 1997. It wouldn't sound good, and probably her voice therapist told her Don't do that! Then the energic act we used to see in the 70s was gone too. So I found The Dance Rhiannon a fine performance, taking in count years had passed and she had take care of her voice.
Mick mentions the Rhiannon performances and Stevie's excessive abuse singing it several times, just picked two of them:
we took her friend Robin Anderson, a voice therapist, on the road with us to try to train Stevie to use her voice differently. But it was like trying to tame a wild thing. Every night, at the climactic end of "Rhiannon," Stevie would rip her voice to shreds. It was a sacrifice she chose to make for her art.
....
When Stevie's voice cracked dangerously during "Rhiannon," she turned to Lindsey and hid her face behind the microphone. Eight months of touring was beginning to take its toll on all of us.
...
Also in Dallas, Stevie took "Rhiannon" to its outermost limits, chanting "Is this what you want from me?" during the crashing finale of the song.
Nobody expected a 1976 level vocal in 1997. It’s more the boring arrangement and ending that is the problem with Rhiannon for the last 30 years. The lack of the solo and the lack of an interesting vocal performance really drag it down. She was able to put a lot of life and energy into Silver Springs and Gold Dust Woman in 1997. It just seems like Rhiannon is and continues to be an obligation and not a standout moment in the set like it once was.
Also, wellllll it was aaaaaaa…holllllleeeeeeee niiiiighhhht…wellllllll ��
Villavic
09-19-2023, 10:05 AM
2 years later: Lindsey introduces a song from Tusk and Chris says to the audience "the album you guys hated" :lol:
When and where did she say that?
Macfan4life
09-19-2023, 10:11 AM
When and where did she say that?
US Festival 1982
During Sara introduction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlpWwxLZRrw
David
09-19-2023, 01:01 PM
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs. (insert David chuckle here)
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
Right after they released that album (or maybe a few days before), one of the trashy rock mags (Circus maybe) ran an article that brought up the choice of tracks for the release, wondering why “Station Man” and “The Chain” and “Tusk” were not on it. Mac wasn’t interviewed for the article, so no response was given — the question was just rhetorical. With the album, the band may have been going for weird just to avoid putting out “yet another hit-laden live album,” which they had been known to complain about.
I think that album has plenty of highlights from both eras — certainly “Go Your Own Way” introduced people to a side of the band they would not have known unless they had attended one of the shows — but the decision to use these pseudo-soundcheck performances of “Don’t Stop” and “Dreams” was bizarro. I bet the album was pulled together quickly and hasty non-decisions were made. The tour ended in early September with the plan to release that last show — and on December 8, the album was out. That’s f***ing fast for Fleetwood Mac. You might even call that album a rush job. Imagine someone scrambling around in all those tour stops from the past five years, grabbing songs from here and there. It could not have taken more than a few weeks to do all that work. I don’t even know when new vocals were added (or where). Actually, the only new vocals I can hear are “Sara” (a very bizarre decision to redo the vocal on nearly the entire song) and some backing vocals on “Over and Over.” We’ve always said that the album has a lot of post-production sweetening, but I don’t think it does. There simply wasn’t time. A December 8 release means that mixing, mastering, artwork, marketing, etc., has to be done in November or October. At some point in September, the band reconvened to do the new tracks. Mac left themselves no time to get this Christmas release out the door. Maybe they should have waited until spring but figured that the tour hoopla would have been dead by then.
David
09-19-2023, 01:08 PM
So, a Rhiannon song that sounded like the 70s was impossible in 1997. It wouldn't sound good, and probably her voice therapist told her Don't do that! Then the energic act we used to see in the 70s was gone too.
A highly unpopular opinion: When I listen to the screaming in the song in the early days, I get a sore throat. And not a good sore throat. I wince. I don’t like it. But I love the way the song used to wind out instrumentally, like a snake sunning itself and then coiling and striking. I think the playing is what most of us miss.
So, other than Oh Well, the more listenable songs.
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
Did they play IKINW in 79-80? For whatever reason I thought that one didn’t get unearthed until SYW.
The Chain, Tusk, Sisters, You Make Loving Fun, Second Hand News, and a legit recording of Don’t Stop belonged on that album well ahead of some of the chosen songs. I’m glad the Tusk Deluxe and Live Deluxe addressed some of the missing links.
A highly unpopular opinion: When I listen to the screaming in the song in the early days, I get a sore throat. And not a good sore throat. I wince. I don’t like it. But I love the way the song used to wind out instrumentally, like a snake sunning itself and then coiling and striking. I think the playing is what most of us miss.
The arrangement makes the whole thing. The solo, the nice quiet jam that ensues after with Christine’s amazing keys, the slow buildup to dreams unwind loves a state of mind…etc etc…the wild part with her screaming, and then the ending all building up to that crescendo at the end - the arrangement is on fire!
Villavic
09-19-2023, 03:50 PM
Still trying to figure out how Over & Over, Not That Funny and Never Going Back Again ended up on that over Second Hand News, Tusk, and You Make Loving Fun and maybe a few other songs, like Songbird and I Know I’m Not Wrong. It’s a bit too much.
Not that I want to join the theory that everything is always Mick's fault, but I suspect that the song selection was mainly his:
It was controversial within the band, this record, because I was the only one who wanted to do it. It was not a popular decision. Both John McVie and Lindsey Buckingham thought it was a negative move, but I always bought Greatest Hits albums myself, and I strongly felt there had to be a live document of the band at this point. Besides, we had great material to work with, recorded all over the world: "Monday Morning" from Tokyo, "Say You Love Me" from Wichita, ''Dreams" from the Paris sound check, a psychedelic "Oh Well" from St. Louis, "Rhiannon" from London, and so on. We also set up our gear and played three new songs "live" for an audience of crew and friends at the Santa Monica Civic Center Stevie's "Fireflies," Chris's "One More Night," and a Fleetwood Mac harmony orgy in homage to Brian Wilson's "The Farmer's Daughter."
Later in the year, we released Fleetwood Mac Live as a double album, and it wasn't a big success. There were many accusations of "We told you so," but I have no regrets.
Not that I want to join the theory that everything is always Mick's fault, but I suspect that the song selection was mainly his:
It was controversial within the band, this record, because I was the only one who wanted to do it. It was not a popular decision. Both John McVie and Lindsey Buckingham thought it was a negative move, but I always bought Greatest Hits albums myself, and I strongly felt there had to be a live document of the band at this point. Besides, we had great material to work with, recorded all over the world: "Monday Morning" from Tokyo, "Say You Love Me" from Wichita, ''Dreams" from the Paris sound check, a psychedelic "Oh Well" from St. Louis, "Rhiannon" from London, and so on. We also set up our gear and played three new songs "live" for an audience of crew and friends at the Santa Monica Civic Center Stevie's "Fireflies," Chris's "One More Night," and a Fleetwood Mac harmony orgy in homage to Brian Wilson's "The Farmer's Daughter."
Later in the year, we released Fleetwood Mac Live as a double album, and it wasn't a big success. There were many accusations of "We told you so," but I have no regrets.
If Mick was to “blame” then I’m glad he did it. I’ve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
Macfan4life
09-19-2023, 05:56 PM
If Mick was to “blame” then I’m glad he did it. I’ve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
Absolutely. Mick's unpopular opinion was one of the best decisions ever. To professionally capture the band at the peak of their powers. It has some of the best versions of some songs ever. I would not have included the new songs, Farmers Daughter, and Not That Funny and had room for The Chain, Sisters, and YMLF. Fleetwood Mac live was a different band back in those days and its so nice to have an album to prove it.
HomerMcvie
09-19-2023, 06:45 PM
If Mick was to “blame” then I’m glad he did it. I’ve always loved the Live album even if some of the song choices were weird.
Me too! I love it, and never understood why it was a bad move. I remember the day it came out. I came running out of K-mart, struggling to get the shrink wrap off of those dual 8- tracks!
Me too! I love it, and never understood why it was a bad move. I remember the day it came out. I came running out of K-mart, struggling to get the shrink wrap off of those dual 8- tracks!
As a mere infant when it was released, it was a solid 18 or so years before I got a hold of it. In my post-Dance infatuation with getting as much information on the band, it was absolutely jarring to hear the difference between the polished gloss of The Dance and the stuff off the Live album. I absolutely adored it from the first listen. That Rhiannon alone was worth the price of the double CD. Sara, Go Your Own Way, I’m So Afraid, Over and Over (with that “let me dowwwwwn again” from L&S)…totally amazing. I still can’t drive to Cleveland without playing GYOW just to align my travel with that “CLEVELAND! Thank you very much we love you!” at the end.
bombaysaffires
09-19-2023, 07:32 PM
For years and years I loved the version of Landslide on the Live album. Sure her voice is worn out, but something about her phrasing and delivery of the song just totally captivated me. And I've always preferred Landslide with Chris playing the solo in the middle that Lindsey played on the electric guitar on the album.
BrownEyedGirl26
09-19-2023, 07:36 PM
YES!
One of the few klonopin era songs that was really good live. Her band rocked the hell out of Rhiannon.
I would hardly call her 1981 version lame (someone else said that). Roy's intro was beautiful and Waddy really created a rocking bouncer. It lost its power on her next tours but it still packed a punch. I feel after her solo version she did not know where to take the song in 1982. We got coke fueled speaking in tongues for Sisters but her talking and going through the motions at the end of Rhiannon "I dont change, you dont change" She did the same thing in 1987 for a rare early Tango tour version. But that's understandable since she was off coke. I love all Mirage concert songs except Rhiannon. Its slow and she seems to struggle and wonder through it. It should have been just as outrageous as her 1982 Sisters but it falls flat for me.
Hi Macfan4life,
I was going to say that the ending with "I don't change, you don't change, (it's all the same, Rhian..non)" Falls flat for me in my previous post, above, so you have expressed the same emotion I felt as I was hearing this ending, the first time I heard it, exactly!
Compare this to the "Take me with you", which is a more positive 'up' emotion and when she sings it, we, the audience, can relate to her more. Just my opinion, of course. :wavey:
HomerMcvie
09-19-2023, 07:36 PM
As a mere infant when it was released, it was a solid 18 or so years before I got a hold of it. In my post-Dance infatuation with getting as much information on the band, it was absolutely jarring to hear the difference between the polished gloss of The Dance and the stuff off the Live album. I absolutely adored it from the first listen. That Rhiannon alone was worth the price of the double CD. Sara, Go Your Own Way, I’m So Afraid, Over and Over (with that “let me dowwwwwn again” from L&S)…totally amazing. I still can’t drive to Cleveland without playing GYOW just to align my travel with that “CLEVELAND! Thank you very much we love you!” at the end.
Over And Over and Oh Well are the highlights for me. Few songs surpass the studio recording, but O&O does! And other than hearing Oh Well during the Tusk tour, I didn't know it. But I LOVED it when I got Live. I still crank it to 10 when it comes on. I didn't care about the Peter Green era, nor the Bob Welch era(although I grew to love the Bob Welch era).
jbrownsjr
09-20-2023, 07:37 AM
I've not heard an Over and Over that I didn't love.
It's just a true beautiful work horse. If that makes sense. :wavey:
Villavic
09-20-2023, 08:14 AM
I have always said that Gypsy was what started my Fleetwood Mac fandom. But the Live album was the catalyst.
It was the first Fleetwood Mac album I ever bought (Mirage was taped from a friend's album). So I loved the Live album and it made me wonder how the studio versions would sound; of course not the popular songs but there are several songs I hadn't heard before. So after Live, I started to buy all the studio albums (Rumours lineup). The rest is history.
By the way, do you mean these?
I came running out of K-mart, struggling to get the shrink wrap off of those dual 8- tracks!
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DtIAAOSwC2djTdIf/s-l400.jpg
HomerMcvie
09-20-2023, 09:40 AM
I have always said that Gypsy was what started my Fleetwood Mac fandom. But the Live album was the catalyst.
It was the first Fleetwood Mac album I ever bought (Mirage was taped from a friend's album). So I loved the Live album and it made me wonder how the studio versions would sound; of course not the popular songs but there are several songs I hadn't heard before. So after Live, I started to buy all the studio albums (Rumours lineup). The rest is history.
By the way, do you mean these?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DtIAAOSwC2djTdIf/s-l400.jpg
Yes.
The cases on mine were black, though.
Macfan4life
09-20-2023, 12:05 PM
I've not heard an Over and Over that I didn't love.
It's just a true beautiful work horse. If that makes sense. :wavey:
Just that one song made the live album worth it IMHO. We always say that Lindsey's closing jams end too soon. The live track Lindsey gets into an almost hypnotic jam that takes the song to the stratosphere. The harmonies are superb too (don't let me down again).
While a different sort of jam at the end, it almost reminds me of the jam at the end of Only Over You. Its so good you don't want it to stop.
The Sara is perfection on the Live album. I was so disappointed to find out it was touched. Thats why I never bought the story from Stevie that Sara never tuned out good live on stage. Its beautiful and even Chris said Sara was one of her favorite songs to play live. Chris on the upright piano on the Tusk tour playing Sara is outrageously good.
bombaysaffires
09-20-2023, 02:41 PM
Just that one song made the live album worth it IMHO. We always say that Lindsey's closing jams end too soon. The live track Lindsey gets into an almost hypnotic jam that takes the song to the stratosphere. The harmonies are superb too (don't let me down again).
While a different sort of jam at the end, it almost reminds me of the jam at the end of Only Over You. Its so good you don't want it to stop.
The Sara is perfection on the Live album. I was so disappointed to find out it was touched. Thats why I never bought the story from Stevie that Sara never tuned out good live on stage. Its beautiful and even Chris said Sara was one of her favorite songs to play live. Chris on the upright piano on the Tusk tour playing Sara is outrageously good.
Christine also said in an interview during that tour that she need to take a break offstage after doing Sara, because of the pounding her hands took on that acoustic piano. She said after that song her "wrists were like spaghetti"
HomerMcvie
09-20-2023, 02:58 PM
Christine also said in an interview during that tour that she need to take a break offstage after doing Sara, because of the pounding her hands took on that acoustic piano. She said after that song her "wrists were like spaghetti"
Seriously? Source?
I've played Sara on piano at home my whole life, and it's no more difficult than any other songs.
jbrownsjr
09-20-2023, 03:15 PM
Christine also said in an interview during that tour that she need to take a break offstage after doing Sara, because of the pounding her hands took on that acoustic piano. She said after that song her "wrists were like spaghetti"
I remember that sort of quote, but I think it was "What Makes You Think"
Seriously? Source?
I've played Sara on piano at home my whole life, and it's no more difficult than any other songs.
Well you sir are no Christine McVie!
bombaysaffires
09-20-2023, 05:17 PM
I remember that sort of quote, but I think it was "What Makes You Think"
ooohhhh.....was it? :shrug: You could be right.... I definitely recall it was her talking about a song she played on the upright piano.... so it'd be one of those songs... With Sara clocking in at close to 8 minutes live, I could imagine that banging up one's wrists night after night. But WMYTYTO makes sense, it requires even harder hammering on the keys. Sue me for old age. :sorry:
HomerMcvie
09-20-2023, 05:20 PM
Well you sir are no Christine McVie!
My voice is almost as deep!
bombaysaffires
09-20-2023, 05:20 PM
Seriously? Source?
I've played Sara on piano at home my whole life, and it's no more difficult than any other songs.
Would you say that to Bob Dylan?:laugh:
I would suggest playing it at home and playing it in an arena night after night are perhaps different things.
jbrownsjr might be right, it might have been What Makes You Think You're the One. The visual of her standing and playing the upright on that tour looks much the same for both of those songs. Sue me.
HomerMcvie
09-20-2023, 05:26 PM
Well you sir are no Christine McVie!
Would you say that to Bob Dylan?:laugh:
I would suggest playing it at home and playing it in an arena night after night are perhaps different things.
jbrownsjr might be right, it might have been What Makes You Think You're the One. The visual of her standing and playing the upright on that tour looks much the same for both of those songs. Sue me.
I'd tell Blob Dylan to kiss my ass. I'm not a big fan.
I played keyboards in a band for 37 years(not joking). I sincerely doubt Christine was hitting them harder than I was, just because there were 20k people there. I've broken the "weights" in weighted keyboards, SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS NULL AND VOID. :]
And jbrowns is always right. Unless of course, he's disagreeing with me.
I'd tell Blob Dylan to kiss my ass. I'm not a big fan.
I played keyboards in a band for 37 years(not joking). I sincerely doubt Christine was hitting them harder than I was, just because there were 20k people there. I've broken the "weights" in weighted keyboards, SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS NULL AND VOID. :]
And jbrowns is always right. Unless of course, he's disagreeing with me.
Is she was here she would throw a glass of wine in your face and show you who could hit them keys harder!
HomerMcvie
09-20-2023, 08:59 PM
Is she was here she would throw a glass of wine in your face and show you who could hit them keys harder!
I would open my mouth wide if I saw it coming.
After she hit 60, I'm pretty sure I could have taken her out. :lol:
SteveMacD
09-20-2023, 09:55 PM
But, you love that Over and Over made it, no?
I don’t hate it, although I’d rather have had “Think About Me” for something like this. I also can’t stand the overdubbed parts. The rehearsal video version blows the Live version away.
SteveMacD
09-20-2023, 09:58 PM
Did they play IKINW in 79-80? For whatever reason I thought that one didn’t get unearthed until SYW.
From the Tusk rehearsals.
https://youtu.be/x74lJmTcI5I?feature=shared
bombaysaffires
09-21-2023, 01:27 AM
From the Tusk rehearsals.
https://youtu.be/x74lJmTcI5I?feature=shared
I will always love when it was just the five of them onstage.
Macfan4life
09-21-2023, 08:03 AM
I remember that sort of quote, but I think it was "What Makes You Think"
I think the quote was right but it was not Chris that said it. It was Stevie. She said that during Tusk rehearsals she would play piano during Sara and taught Chris a few licks. After the full version of Sara she said her hands and fingers were like baked ziti (not spaghetti). She said she had to curtail any tambourine playing the rest of the day.
Villavic
09-21-2023, 08:06 AM
From the Tusk rehearsals.
https://youtu.be/x74lJmTcI5I?feature=shared
But was it played at concerts? I was looking for 1979/80 shows with IKINW and only find 2 dates with this song included in the set list, but both at "unknown venue" so I guess it was the rehearsals.
https://www.setlist.fm/song/fleetwood-mac/i-know-im-not-wrong-3d631cb.html
Since once I read this website is not 100% reliable, I ask if anybody actually saw IkINW in the Tusk tour?
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 08:16 AM
I don’t hate it, although I’d rather have had “Think About Me” for something like this. I also can’t stand the overdubbed parts. The rehearsal video version blows the Live version away.
I agree. I love the rehearsal video. It's so good.
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 08:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_elPn9pyQ
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 08:25 AM
I think the quote was right but it was not Chris that said it. It was Stevie. She said that during Tusk rehearsals she would play piano during Sara and taught Chris a few licks. After the full version of Sara she said her hands and fingers were like baked ziti (not spaghetti). She said she had to curtail any tambourine playing the rest of the day.
She also played piano on WMYTYTO
HomerMcvie
09-21-2023, 08:49 AM
She also played piano on WMYTYTO
Being in the Army is tough.
$he's such a good soldier.
$he's as full of sh*t as a Christmas goose. Idiot.
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 08:50 AM
Being in the Army is tough.
$he's such a good soldier.
$he's as full of sh*t as a Christmas goose. Idiot.
Stevie told Karen to tell Christine to tell Mick to keep Bob out of the Hall of Fame.
HomerMcvie
09-21-2023, 09:34 AM
Stevie told Karen to tell Christine to tell Mick to keep Bob out of the Hall of Fame.
On the Golden Girls, remember when they'd occasionally "show" what was going on inside Rose's head, and it would just be nonsensical gibberish?
I'd imagine that's what being inside $tevie's head is like...
I think the quote was right but it was not Chris that said it. It was Stevie. She said that during Tusk rehearsals she would play piano during Sara and taught Chris a few licks. After the full version of Sara she said her hands and fingers were like baked ziti (not spaghetti). She said she had to curtail any tambourine playing the rest of the day.
She taught Chris something on a piano? Lord
HomerMcvie
09-21-2023, 10:44 AM
She taught Chris something on a piano? Lord
$he's full blown delusional crazy.
Macfan4life
09-21-2023, 10:52 AM
She taught Chris something on a piano? Lord
It was a joke.
Sorry :(
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 12:48 PM
It was a joke.
Sorry :(
I knew you were joking. I mean.... :shrug:
jbrownsjr
09-21-2023, 12:49 PM
On the Golden Girls, remember when they'd occasionally "show" what was going on inside Rose's head, and it would just be nonsensical gibberish?
I'd imagine that's what being inside $tevie's head is like...
And then there's Maude... :wavey:
David
09-21-2023, 12:59 PM
But was it played at concerts? I was looking for 1979/80 shows with IKINW and only find 2 dates with this song included in the set list, but both at "unknown venue" so I guess it was the rehearsals.
Since once I read this website is not 100% reliable, I ask if anybody actually saw IkINW in the Tusk tour?
Never say never, I guess. For a long time, nobody but a few Europeans knew that Fleetwood Mac played “That’s Enough for Me” in concert. Then an audience tape finally surfaced from somewhere in Europe, and now we have a fantastic version of it from Wembley on the Tusk Deluxe release. Have you heard that?
If you’re interested in IKINW, the most logical place to look is probably the first couple of shows in October. That first concert in Boise, Idaho, may have featured several amazing songs that they rehearsed: IKINW, The Ledge, Honey Hi, That’s All for Everyone, Brown Eyes. A week ahead of the opening night, they were still rehearsing The Ledge right after Over and Over, and IKINW was after Sisters of the Moon and before Songbird. More of Tusk the album was planned for the tour. It’s both interesting and confusing to ponder the songs that went in and out of rotation from October 1979 to September 1980: Over and Over, Think About Me, Save Me a Place, That’s Enough for Me. (Never Forget seems an obvious choice for a concert closer.) So far as I know, the Tusk constants were Sara, What Makes You Think You’re the One, Not That Funny, Sisters of the Moon, Angel, and Tusk. Six songs were kept in the set all year solid. That’s not too bad, really, for Fleetwood Mac, but it sure doesn’t measure up to the white album or Rumours.
And five songs from Tusk were part of the 1982 shows. How’s that? Not bad. Who says Tusk was a failure?
It was a joke.
Sorry :(
I mean even if you were dead serious, it was clearly a joke 😂
secret love
09-22-2023, 01:06 PM
I was watching this Rhiannon clip from the Live 1982 US Festival (Fifth date of the Mirage tour). What caught my attention was the long and cool intro. I think it’s the longest Rhiannon intro I’ve heard (almost one minute). This intro is not in the Live at the Forum, Los Angeles included in the Deluxe edition. It is not in the video either. Was it cut or they actually didn’t play it?
Is this Rhiannon (or other songs) US festival version available in any audio edition?
The one at the Rumours {35th Anniversary Expanded Edition) or the (Live at Tucson, 8/28/80) from Tusk Deluxe are a bit similar but longs just around 15 seconds. I think this US Festival is one of the coolest intro I’ve heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCwKDgiDuVY
Love Mick's drumming on this intro - good find, my friend!! :nod:
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