Christine Perfect Album

[J.Miller]

https://youtu.be/w4qY0RrMQOY Here is our discussion on the Christine Perfect album from 1970. Thanks again Jeremy for having me on.

[Macfan4life]

I cant wait to listen. Thank you Jeremy for showcasing these albums.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, thank you Jeremy. Love Jim Miller, he's fun to listen to. I believe Christine is horny all throughout her career.

Working at Arby's. Respect, my friend. :woohoo:

[Villavic]

This is the Christine Perfect album, right? I've not got it yet. Probably I heard few of its songs long ago once.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0558/5027/0926/products/784255.jpg?v=1646349503

So I see this album with the same track listing. Is there a difference with the original release? I mean alternate versions, mixes, etc.?

https://i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b27398f8369e4903290a73ca877f

[cbBen]

[My] car was the Christine McVehicle." So funny.

[lazy poker]

So I see this album with the same track listing. Is there a difference with the original release? I mean alternate versions, mixes, etc.?

Different remaster minus "I'd Rather Go Blind" plus 1 outtake, 1 single version and 3 BBC tracks.

[aleuzzi]

Different remaster minus "I'd Rather Go Blind" plus 1 outtake, 1 single version and 3 BBC tracks.

Yes, and if you haven’t heard the three BBC tunes, it’s worth getting

[FuzzyPlum]

Yep. Gone into the Sun in particular is a real ‘lost’ gem. Love it!!!!

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, and if you haven’t heard the three BBC tunes, it’s worth getting

Yes, these are worth it!

[aleuzzi]

Yes, these are worth it!

You and I (and Homer and David and MacFan, etc) should do a video podcast of the Christine Perfect album. I could spend ten minutes insisting that “I Want You” is one of the most sexy-cool recordings on the planet…

[Penguin Emeritus]

You and I (and Homer and David and MacFan, etc) should do a video podcast of the Christine Perfect album. I could spend ten minutes insisting that “I Want You” is one of the most sexy-cool recordings on the planet…

That is a funky one! I love No Road is the Right Road, and Gone Into The Sun. Chris hated that album but i think it's got some good stuff on it.

--Lis

[aleuzzi]

That is a funky one! I love No Road is the Right Road, and Gone Into The Sun. Chris hated that album but i think it's got some good stuff on it.

--Lis

I happen to think No Road is the best song on the album. It sounds like a ready-made hit to me. I wish she had pursued some of that stax-style soul on her later albums, but hey--I love where she ended up going :-)

Gone Into the Sun, It's You I miss, and Tell Me You Need Me are all really cool tunes that would have sounded great on the album. I'm assuming they weren't completed in time? That's the only explanation I can think of.

The two tunes I really I dislike are Let Me Go (Leave Me Alone) and When You Say.

Crazy 'Bout You Baby, to my ears, sounds a lot better on the Fleetwood Mac live-in-studio recording on Madison Blues. Kirwan and Spencer each take a turn at a solo, and each is excellent.

The last five songs on Christine Perfect are so pleasing to my ears!

[Penguin Emeritus]

I happen to think No Road is the best song on the album. It sounds like a ready-made hit to me. I wish she had pursued some of that stax-style soul on her later albums, but hey--I love where she ended up going :-)

Gone Into the Sun, It's You I miss, and Tell Me You Need Me are all really cool tunes that would have sounded great on the album. I'm assuming they weren't completed in time? That's the only explanation I can think of.

The two tunes I really I dislike are Let Me Go (Leave Me Alone) and When You Say.

Crazy 'Bout You Baby, to my ears, sounds a lot better on the Fleetwood Mac live-in-studio recording on Madison Blues. Kirwan and Spencer each take a turn at a solo, and each is excellent.

The last five songs on Christine Perfect are so pleasing to my ears!

oh yesss I forgot about Crazy Bout You Baby (watta great groove) and Tell Me You Need Me, i love those, too!!

When You Say is a danny kirwan song so we can't hold chris responsible for that. :laugh: although i'll listen to that any day over Let me Go (Leave Me Alone.) that one is just awful.

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

I happen to think No Road is the best song on the album. It sounds like a ready-made hit to me. I wish she had pursued some of that stax-style soul on her later albums, but hey--I love where she ended up going :-)

Gone Into the Sun, It's You I miss, and Tell Me You Need Me are all really cool tunes that would have sounded great on the album. I'm assuming they weren't completed in time? That's the only explanation I can think of.

The two tunes I really I dislike are Let Me Go (Leave Me Alone) and When You Say.

Crazy 'Bout You Baby, to my ears, sounds a lot better on the Fleetwood Mac live-in-studio recording on Madison Blues. Kirwan and Spencer each take a turn at a solo, and each is excellent.

The last five songs on Christine Perfect are so pleasing to my ears!

Your love for this album inspires me. (truly). I've been listening to it a lot more closely. It's a great album.

[aleuzzi]

Your love for this album inspires me. (truly). I've been listening to it a lot more closely. It's a great album.

Your vocals-only files have helped renew my enthusiasm…she was already singing well

[jbrownsjr]

Your vocals-only files have helped renew my enthusiasm…she was already singing well

True, her discipline wasn't there. And as we know, alcohol does affect the voice live. I think coke may have grounded her a bit more.

[aleuzzi]

True, her discipline wasn't there. And as we know, alcohol does affect the voice live. I think coke may have grounded her a bit more.

Darling, I love you, always, but I have NO idea how what you are saying above is connected to what I wrote about the vocals-only files you sent me, which I loved.

Please school me?

[SteveMacD]

I made a playlist that was replaced Jeremy’s Kiln House songs with songs from Christine Perfect, using all of the songs Christine wrote. Don’t know if it’s better, per se, but a kind of interesting what if.

Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby
Station Man
No Road is the Right Road
Close to Me
Jeweled Eyed Judy
-
For You
Earl Gray
Wait And See
Tell Me All the Things You Do
Let Me Go (Leave Me Alone)

[aleuzzi]

I made a playlist that was replaced Jeremy’s Kiln House songs with songs from Christine Perfect, using all of the songs Christine wrote. Don’t know if it’s better, per se, but a kind of interesting what if.

Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby
Station Man
No Road is the Right Road
Close to Me
Jeweled Eyed Judy
-
For You
Earl Gray
Wait And See
Tell Me All the Things You Do
Let Me Go (Leave Me Alone)

Interesting idea but I’m here to defend Kiln House to the very end. It’s my third favorite Mac album

[SteveMacD]

Interesting idea but I’m here to defend Kiln House to the very end. It’s my third favorite Mac album

Reminds me, I wonder why they didn’t do “Hi Ho Silver” when Billy was in the band? It was a staple for the Rock & Roll Trio and Billy recorded his own version on his 1980 album.

[aleuzzi]

Reminds me, I wonder why they didn’t do “Hi Ho Silver” when Billy was in the band? It was a staple for the Rock & Roll Trio and Billy recorded his own version on his 1980 album.

That and "Buddy's Song" would have been fantastic.

I love everything on Kiln House except "Blood on the Floor," but even then that tune entertains me, like hideous wallpaper.

And I know it's sacrilege to say so, but I prefer Kiln House to Then Play On any day of the week. And I am someone who digs Then Play On.

[lazy poker]

I love everything on Kiln House except "Blood on the Floor," but even then that tune entertains me, like hideous wallpaper.

And I know it's sacrilege to say so, but I prefer Kiln House to Then Play On any day of the week. And I am someone who digs Then Play On.

Reading this, I felt obliged to put my two cents in as well.

I was pretty astonished to see that someone took the words right out of my mouth on this - with the exception of "Blood On The Floor" which I simply can't stand at all. But apart from that one it's a joy for me to listen through the whole album.

Now, I'm a hopeless Peter Green fan - so how come me preferring "Kiln House"? Although Greeny's my guitar main man and the biggest influence on my own guitar playing, it's mainly his uptempo songs and / or the ones in major keys that I get off on these days. By now I'm a pretty old geezer, and since the love of my life has passed away I have to struggle with depressions more than before. Whereas much on "Then Play On" is in minor keys, mostly melancholic and - rather more than not - bringing me down, "Kiln House" is such an uplifting album . . . as simple as that. And it has some of Danny Kirwan's best playing (which I'm a fan of just the same) on it. And Christine, of course - although uncredited, but clearly detectable!

I'm well aware that this preference might in fact present something of a sacrilege to a lot - if not most - early Mac fans, but aleuzzi just made me voice out this humble opinion, which I'm not ashamed about at all . . . even if I drifted quite a bit off-topic. "Kiln House" is a damned fine album for me money.

[aleuzzi]

Reading this, I felt obliged to put my two cents in as well.

I was pretty astonished to see that someone took the words right out of my mouth on this - with the exception of "Blood On The Floor" which I simply can't stand at all. But apart from that one it's a joy for me to listen through the whole album.

Now, I'm a hopeless Peter Green fan - so how come me preferring "Kiln House"? Although Greeny's my guitar main man and the biggest influence on my own guitar playing, it's mainly his uptempo songs and / or the ones in major keys that I get off on these days. By now I'm a pretty old geezer, and since the love of my life has passed away I have to struggle with depressions more than before. Whereas much on "Then Play On" is in minor keys, mostly melancholic and - rather more than not - bringing me down, "Kiln House" is such an uplifting album . . . as simple as that. And it has some of Danny Kirwan's best playing (which I'm a fan of just the same) on it. And Christine, of course - although uncredited, but clearly detectable!

I'm well aware that this preference might in fact present something of a sacrilege to a lot - if not most - early Mac fans, but aleuzzi just made me voice out this humble opinion, which I'm not ashamed about at all . . . even if I drifted quite a bit off-topic. "Kiln House" is a damned fine album for me money.

Amen! I happen to love the minor-key tunes on Then Play On. But Kiln House is just such an earthy, unpretentious joy. And Jeremy surpasses himself, I think. He was always a great imitator, but he comes into his own here using the 50s sun sound. Danny, of course, owns the spotlight whenever he takes it…

[SteveMacD]

Amen! I happen to love the minor-key tunes on Then Play On.

I was listening to “Closing My Eyes” and it hit me it would have been better served with a Brian Wilson/Gary Usher/‘60s Laurel Canyon style of production.

[aleuzzi]

I was listening to “Closing My Eyes” and it hit me it would have been better served with a Brian Wilson/Gary Usher/‘60s Laurel Canyon style of production.

Before the Beginning is hypnotic…

But—and it’s a big but—for Then Play On’s excellence, I still prefer Kiln House.

[SteveMacD]

Mike Vernon missed a golden opportunity for an album title for Christine Perfect:

The Hen Flies The Coop.

[jbrownsjr]

Darling, I love you, always, but I have NO idea how what you are saying above is connected to what I wrote about the vocals-only files you sent me, which I loved.

Please school me?

What I meant was at times she was in complete control. Other times, maybe she was drunk. And then later the coke tends to help people focus.

I know singing drunk is really difficult for me.

[aleuzzi]

What I meant was at times she was in complete control. Other times, maybe she was drunk. And then later the coke tends to help people focus.

I know singing drunk is really difficult for me.

Oh, yes, I see what you mean--and there were definitely times when she was...woozy boozy...

I love her vocals on the 1984 tour. Some of those recordings floating around on YouTube show she was in great shape.

[jbrownsjr]

Oh, yes, I see what you mean--and there were definitely times when she was...woozy boozy...

I love her vocals on the 1984 tour. Some of those recordings floating around on YouTube show she was in great shape.

God yes!! When she sang Smile in Cleveland I was moved to tears.

[Villavic]

I was reading this album wikipedia page, about her opinion of the record:

In a 1980 interview with Contemporary Keyboard, Perfect (who by that time had the surname of McVie) expressed embarrassment about the album's existence and felt that some of the songs lacked the artistic maturity she believed came during her time in Fleetwood Mac. "When I made that record, I wasn't really sure about my talent, or about what direction I wanted to go in musically. There were people all around who were trying to make me into this kind of a singer or that kind of a singer. Mike Vernon was a great help in many ways – I'm playing music now partly because of what he did to get me started – but even he was pushing me into becoming sort of a black-style English singer. I didn't really feel artistically together until I joined Fleetwood Mac."

I looked for the info because I was reading the chapter of Bob Brunning book (yes! I found my long lost book) about the interval between Mirage and Tango and it says:

Meanwhile, Christine was organizing the recording of her second solo album. Her first, recorded way back in 1969, had been subsequently released in the US against her wishes. “I didn’t have one finger in the pie except that I wrote a couple of weedy songs!”

I read the track listing and she wrote not all but more than a couple of songs. And she appears as co-producer with Mike Vernon (and Kirwan in one song). But judging by her words, it seems she wasn't actually very involved in the production.

[HomerMcvie]

You know, if I die prematurely, and before you, I might hope that you might come visit my grave, and perform your resurrecting abilities on my corpse!

I'll buy you another copy of THE BOOK, if you're successful!




:p

[Macfan4life]

I was reading this album wikipedia page, about her opinion of the record:

In a 1980 interview with Contemporary Keyboard, Perfect (who by that time had the surname of McVie) expressed embarrassment about the album's existence and felt that some of the songs lacked the artistic maturity she believed came during her time in Fleetwood Mac. "When I made that record, I wasn't really sure about my talent, or about what direction I wanted to go in musically. There were people all around who were trying to make me into this kind of a singer or that kind of a singer. Mike Vernon was a great help in many ways – I'm playing music now partly because of what he did to get me started – but even he was pushing me into becoming sort of a black-style English singer. I didn't really feel artistically together until I joined Fleetwood Mac."

I looked for the info because I was reading the chapter of Bob Brunning book (yes! I found my long lost book) about the interval between Mirage and Tango and it says:

Meanwhile, Christine was organizing the recording of her second solo album. Her first, recorded way back in 1969, had been subsequently released in the US against her wishes. “I didn’t have one finger in the pie except that I wrote a couple of weedy songs!”

I read the track listing and she wrote not all but more than a couple of songs. And she appears as co-producer with Mike Vernon (and Kirwan in one song). But judging by her words, it seems she wasn't actually very involved in the production.
When her solo album was released on 1984 this album resurfaced and Christine got mad about it. In the record shops her album would be in the album rack next to this album that was reprinted and tried to capitalize on her new success as a solo artist. I cant remember if she sued someone but she definitely gave interviews telling people not to buy it in her wonderful sense of humor she had.

On another note, I started reading the Christine Biography again that I started last summer. Parts reminded me of how accidental her being in Fleetwood Mac was. She was intending on being a loyal housewife. Even though she had won a prestigious music/singing award in the UK her solo career went nowhere. Peter and Jeremy leaving really started the evolution of Fleetwood Mac. I had forgotten but things got so bleak after Jeremy left that Mick asked Peter Green to re-join which he did for a very brief time. But left again after a brief tour. Chris was hanging out with them and playing and she just fit perfectly.

[Penguin Emeritus]

When her solo album was released on 1984 this album resurfaced and Christine got mad about it. In the record shops her album would be in the album rack next to this album that was reprinted and tried to capitalize on her new success as a solo artist. I cant remember if she sued someone but she definitely gave interviews telling people not to buy it in her wonderful sense of humor she had.

On another note, I started reading the Christine Biography again that I started last summer. Parts reminded me of how accidental her being in Fleetwood Mac was. She was intending on being a loyal housewife. Even though she had won a prestigious music/singing award in the UK her solo career went nowhere. Peter and Jeremy leaving really started the evolution of Fleetwood Mac. I had forgotten but things got so bleak after Jeremy left that Mick asked Peter Green to re-join which he did for a very brief time. But left again after a brief tour. Chris was hanging out with them and playing and she just fit perfectly.

Yes, I recall chris bashing that album any time it was brought up, she hated it. She said it wasn't "very representative" of her, but i still think some of it is great. (Other songs I agree should maybe have been swept under a carpet somewhere, as she said lol.)

I think they only asked peter to come help finish the tour, not to rejoin... Doubt he ever would have considered doing that, but it was nice he flew over so they could wrap up the shows, even though they just became long jam sessions.


Much of that Jones bio still ticks me off but i did appreciate the few new quotes in there. I think her intention was to be a housewife but at the same time, she also said she was starting to get bored and didn't think she could have done that the rest of her life... I think she was such a creative person that eventually she would have been drawn back into music somehow. (of course if she'd had a child, that all could have changed what happened, too.)

That was actually the question i asked John in one of his Q&As because this time period is really interesting to me. Had jeremy not left, and thrown the band into that state of upheaval, did he think chris would have stayed..? of course he said he had no idea what she would have done, but maybe it's possible she was looking at it as more of a temporary thing-- getting to go to America and have more time with john etc.. all stuff she wanted. but did she really want to JOIN the band forever at that time? argh the things we'll never know.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

Yes, I recall chris bashing that album any time it was brought up, she hated it. She said it wasn't "very representative" of her, but i still think some of it is great. (Other songs I agree should maybe have been swept under a carpet somewhere, as she said lol.)

I think they only asked peter to come help finish the tour, not to rejoin... Doubt he ever would have considered doing that, but it was nice he flew over so they could wrap up the shows, even though they just became long jam sessions.


Much of that Jones bio still ticks me off but i did appreciate the few new quotes in there. I think her intention was to be a housewife but at the same time, she also said she was starting to get bored and didn't think she could have done that the rest of her life... I think she was such a creative person that eventually she would have been drawn back into music somehow. (of course if she'd had a child, that all could have changed what happened, too.)

That was actually the question i asked John in one of his Q&As because this time period is really interesting to me. Had jeremy not left, and thrown the band into that state of upheaval, did he think chris would have stayed..? of course he said he had no idea what she would have done, but maybe it's possible she was looking at it as more of a temporary thing-- getting to go to America and have more time with john etc.. all stuff she wanted. but did she really want to JOIN the band forever at that time? argh the things we'll never know.

--Lis
Is not rejoining to tour after leaving rejoining? I am sure they asked or begged him to stay but he refused. I had totally forgotten about that though. He was not well but he did it for Mick.

I started the book last summer and got halfway through. Nothing new is really in the book and even some of the "unauthorized" stuff is publicly known like her father marrying and having a child with a much younger woman. Have not gotten to any part where there is anything remotely portraying Christine in a negative light. But I am just slightly over the middle part. I am liking the middle part because so much Fleetwood Mac history that I forgot about or may not have known. Peter coming back to the band was one of them. It just makes you ponder WHAT IF? What if Peter never took that bad acid? What if Jeremy never ran away? The band we know today would not look the same.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Is not rejoining to tour after leaving rejoining? I am sure they asked or begged him to stay but he refused. I had totally forgotten about that though. He was not well but he did it for Mick.

I started the book last summer and got halfway through. Nothing new is really in the book and even some of the "unauthorized" stuff is publicly known like her father marrying and having a child with a much younger woman. Have not gotten to any part where there is anything remotely portraying Christine in a negative light. But I am just slightly over the middle part. I am liking the middle part because so much Fleetwood Mac history that I forgot about or may not have known. Peter coming back to the band was one of them. It just makes you ponder WHAT IF? What if Peter never took that bad acid? What if Jeremy never ran away? The band we know today would not look the same.

I think peter was coming to help them finish the tour... i don't believe there was ever any intention of his staying beyond that so i wouldn't really call it rejoining.. he was just being a nice guy and helping them out.

My main issue w the book is that it's full of weird speculations and outright BS, like chris leaving in 98 because she supposedly found out stevie screwed dennis twenty years before. i mean give me a break. totally not one of the reasons. Or that dennis was "the love of her life, the one that got away", all this crap... again, give me a break. she was w him for like 2-3 years and those years were drug filled insanity, and after she had to go on holiday and have her lawyers have him evicted from her damn house, he immediately went on to knock up and marry his cousin soon after the break up. what a sweetheart... a real diamond in the rough lol.

i think peter may have left anyway just because he felt he had outgrown what the band could do... but yeah.. lots of 'what ifs' in FM history...

--Lis

[Villavic]

Mick wrote Peter joined them at the end of the 1971 tour after a Clifford emergency call, and the tour with him ended wonderfully.

But we were desperate, and Clifford put through an SOS call to Pete in Surrey later that day. There was no pressure. We explained the situation and said, look, don't feel you've got to, but if you could, it would be great. And that was it. He said he had been about to take a job as a laborer on a farm, but that in the spirit of friendship he would do it. He really didn't want to play at all, but he did it and it was great.
....
After the eight weeks of the tour had run their course, we could look back and see we had actually done well in terms of money and fame. It was our best tour ever. But the way we felt inside while making it was pretty awful. The fact that Pete played so beautifully made it even sadder, because we knew we would lose him again. His playing raised gooseflesh on my arms on that tour, and yet at the end he renounced it all once again.


Bob Brunning brought more details of the Clifford’s call. It differs significantly from the "we explained" tone Mick said:

“I said to Peter, ‘Can you do me a favour. Can you come over?’ He said, ‘You’re ****ing joking, aren’t you?’ I said, ‘I’m not asking you for the band, I’m asking you for me.’ Peter then said, ‘You don’t think I want to play with that bunch any more, do you?’ I said, ‘It’s really important, for me, I’m going to lose a lot of money if I get sued.’ Peter said, “Would you do the same for me?’ I said, ‘Do you really need me to answer that. . .!’” Peter immediately agreed. But on the condition that his friend Nigel, Clifford’s brother-in-law, came too to keep him company on the road. Twelve hours later Clifford picked them up from the airport and drove immediately to the Swing Stadium in San Bernardino. Peter went straight on stage, unannounced. (He was to insist on being referred to as “Peter Blue” for the entire tour.) He saved the show. Fleetwood Mac did not miss another gig, and Clifford breathed a huge sigh of relief. The tour was a great success.
…..
Clifford is in no doubt that Peter’s helping him out on the US tour certainly constituted the biggest favour Green had ever granted. But there was no question of Peter rejoining the band permanently. Something had to be done about Fleetwood Mac’s front line following Jeremy’s abrupt departure.

[HomerMcvie]

I think peter was coming to help them finish the tour... i don't believe there was ever any intention of his staying beyond that so i wouldn't really call it rejoining.. he was just being a nice guy and helping them out.

My main issue w the book is that it's full of weird speculations and outright BS, like chris leaving in 98 because she supposedly found out stevie screwed dennis twenty years before. i mean give me a break. totally not one of the reasons. Or that dennis was "the love of her life, the one that got away", all this crap... again, give me a break. she was w him for like 2-3 years and those years were drug filled insanity, and after she had to go on holiday and have her lawyers have him evicted from her damn house, he immediately went on to knock up and marry his cousin soon after the break up. what a sweetheart... a real diamond in the rough lol.

i think peter may have left anyway just because he felt he had outgrown what the band could do... but yeah.. lots of 'what ifs' in FM history...

--Lis

As much as we worship her, she sure couldn't pick a man, worth a fukc.

[Penguin Emeritus]

As much as we worship her, she sure couldn't pick a man, worth a fukc.

After all i've heard, i maintain J&C made the right choice in the beginning, because that love endured. They were always compatible as f*ck. unfortunately, they were also both alcoholics... much as we worship her, she was no angel either.

the others.. yes i agree, they were less than ideal lol.

--Lis

[Villavic]

Little Lies, Isn't It Midnight, As Long as You Follow, Save Me, Skies, Love Shines, Heart of Stone, Night in Storil and many more songs where Quintela is included as co-writer. Many of those songs are really beautiful. Quintela turned out to be a jerk, or so I read. But judging by Christine songs during her time with him, it seems she had some happy years with him. I do wonder, though, how much he actually contributed to the songwriting.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Little Lies, Isn't It Midnight, As Long as You Follow, Save Me, Skies, Love Shines, Heart of Stone, Night in Storil and many more songs where Quintela is included as co-writer. Many of those songs are really beautiful. Quintela turned out to be a jerk, or so I read. But judging by Christine songs during her time with him, it seems she had some happy years with him. I do wonder, though, how much he actually contributed to the songwriting.

In one of those later interviews, chris herself said that SHE wrote the songs! and that she didn't want to talk about all that.

also, george hawkins told me in no uncertain terms that ed was really great w the small touches, creative ideas added in spots etc, but not so good at the big picture-- as in actually writing a friggin good song lol. Years ago someone who saw his band, Moon, said they were pretty good, but who ever even heard of them besides us Mac fans? imo chris could just as easily have written those songs you mentioned without him.

She gave him co-writing credits out of the goodness of her heart. they may have had a few happy years, but i don't think her songs at that time had much to do w their relationship.

--Lis

[HomerMcvie]

After all i've heard, i maintain J&C made the right choice in the beginning, because that love endured. They were always compatible as f*ck. unfortunately, they were also both alcoholics... much as we worship her, she was no angel either.

the others.. yes i agree, they were less than ideal lol.

--Lis

You know, there are drunks, and then there are DRUNKS. I've always assumed that Chris was the former, and John the latter. Have you ever been around a drunk that gets so sh1tfaced that they can't get off the floor, or even pees themselves lying there, and continues drinking(if they can reach one)? I have, and it's ugly. I've always thought that maybe John lacked the "off" switch to keep things from getting really bad. I'm only guessing, though.

[Villavic]

Have you ever been around a drunk that gets so sh1tfaced that they can't get off the floor, or even pees themselves lying there, and continues drinking(if they can reach one)? I have, and it's ugly. I've always thought that maybe John lacked the "off" switch to keep things from getting really bad. I'm only guessing, though.

Yes, I have seen that too. And the saddest thing is that when the person is sober he may be the kindest and nicest person.

John told in 1997 she made the right decision.
You've got the pressures of being on the road for a start. And living together. And seeing everybody at their best and their worst, literally their worst. And with Chris, she saw me at the worst one time too many. And bless her heart, she said, enough. I don't want to be around this person. So we talked about it, and made the decision.

But I agree there were always love. As a movie quote I remember, "There is still love there. -Love was never the problem".

[Penguin Emeritus]

You know, there are drunks, and then there are DRUNKS. I've always assumed that Chris was the former, and John the latter. Have you ever been around a drunk that gets so sh1tfaced that they can't get off the floor, or even pees themselves lying there, and continues drinking(if they can reach one)? I have, and it's ugly. I've always thought that maybe John lacked the "off" switch to keep things from getting really bad. I'm only guessing, though.

I agree she wasn't the same sort of drunk he was, and her personality didn't change as drastically as his did... hopefully she didn't end up plastered on the floor pissing herself lol. (who was it, i think dave walker..? who said in truth chris could prob drink all of us under the table... i mean that's saying something, too..) but i don't think both of them drinking as much as they did ever helped a situation.

But like villavic said, love was never the problem.

--Lis