BuckVie Cleveland 2017

[jbrownsjr]

This makes me miss her so damn much. Stop talking and do your job and play!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FGBi09hF5g

[BigAl84]

I was at this show, but I almost didn't go. For some reason because I had already saw them in Detroit back in July, I was somehow on the fence (WTF) about seeing them on this night. I purchased a great seat around the dinner hour and hit the road, it was only a half hour drive.

It was definitely the best show of the two I saw. IMO, Christine was having a pretty darn good night, vocally.

[jbrownsjr]

I was at this show, but I almost didn't go. For some reason because I had already saw them in Detroit back in July, I was somehow on the fence (WTF) about seeing them on this night. I purchased a great seat around the dinner hour and hit the road, it was only a half hour drive.

It was definitely the best show of the two I saw. IMO, Christine was having a pretty darn good night, vocally.

They definitely look like they were having fun. Los Angeles was the same way. Extra energy and great vocals.

[BigAl84]

It's a rather small room. There are high school auditoriums that are larger.

[jbrownsjr]

It's a rather small room. There are high school auditoriums that are larger.

Was this Northfield Park?

[BigAl84]

Yes, it was at the MGM Casino - Northfield Park

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, it was at the MGM Casino - Northfield Park

As a kid, I used to go there with friends and play the trotters. (Northfield Park - Horse racing)

[BigAl84]

As a kid, I used to go there with friends and play the trotters. (Northfield Park - Horse racing)

It's such a weird place. You hop off I-480 and wind up in what feels like the middle of nowhere with a casino popping out of a corn field.

[jbrownsjr]

It's such a weird place. You hop off I-480 and wind up in what feels like the middle of nowhere with a casino popping out of a corn field.

Do they still do horse racing over there?

[BigAl84]

I believe so, I remember seeing the racetrack on one end of the parking lot. Unless that's sitting vacant.

[BigAl84]

I just found a photographer's stash of photos he took at this show:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/raph_ph/with/38309761276/

[jbrownsjr]

I just found a photographer's stash of photos he took at this show:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/raph_ph/with/38309761276/

Wow, these are amazing!

[aleuzzi]

Thank you BigAL! these are great. They both look so good and vibrant in these.

[jbrownsjr]

Thank you BigAL! these are great. They both look so good and vibrant in these.

Like you said, who on earth knew she'd pass away 5 years later. :distress:

[aleuzzi]

Like you said, who on earth knew she'd pass away 5 years later. :distress:

It so sad--and wrong.

[Penguin Emeritus]

It so sad--and wrong.

It is really sad. but i'm grateful she got herself together and back into life and didn't just wither away in isolation in Kent. those pics are gorgeous.

--Lis

[jbrownsjr]

It is really sad. but i'm grateful she got herself together and back into life and didn't just wither away in isolation in Kent. those pics are gorgeous.

--Lis

The thought of her withering away can make me cry on point. Lord, I'm grateful!

[BigAl84]

My biggest hope is that everything happened really quickly for Christine and she didn't go through an extended period of pain.

It's weird to think that this show was the last time I saw her and 5 years later she is gone. It's also been 8 years since my last Fleetwood Mac show in February 2015. Thats a bit longer than the gap between 1997-2003 which is blowing my mind a little bit. It seemed like forever at the time.

[HomerMcvie]

My biggest hope is that everything happened really quickly for Christine and she didn't go through an extended period of pain.

It's weird to think that this show was the last time I saw her and 5 years later she is gone. It's also been 8 years since my last Fleetwood Mac show in February 2015. Thats a bit longer than the gap between 1997-2003 which is blowing my mind a little bit. It seemed like forever at the time.
How long was she having the back pain? I'm guessing that was the cancer causing that.

My last show was Louisville BuckVie(and Nashville before that). I'm very happy that those were my last shows, and not the Petty's Crowded House sh*tshow cover band(which I had zero interest in seeing).

[BigAl84]

How long was she having the back pain? I'm guessing that was the cancer causing that.

My last show was Louisville BuckVie(and Nashville before that). I'm very happy that those were my last shows, and not the Petty's Crowded House sh*tshow cover band(which I had zero interest in seeing).

The first I had heard her talk about the back issues was during an interview she did for rolling stone in June of '22

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/christine-mcvie-fleetwood-mac-interview-last-word-1367214/

I passed on the 2018 tour as well. Had they REALLY reinvented themselves in an interesting way I would have maybe considered going. They sorta did so originally with all of the Pre-75 material, but alas most of it was cut out of the setlist. They should have done an all blues tour without Stevie, that would have been killer. At the end of the day, giving them cash after how they did Lindsey dirty just didn't feel right.

[HomerMcvie]

The first I had heard her talk about the back issues was during an interview she did for rolling stone in June of '22

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/christine-mcvie-fleetwood-mac-interview-last-word-1367214/

I passed on the 2018 tour as well. At the end of the day, giving them cash after how they did Lindsey dirty just didn't feel right.

Thanks.

Yep. You simply can't reward bad behavior, and this was inexcusable. Stevie ruined the end of FM.

[BigAl84]

All for the sake of an insignificant greatest hits tour that wound up starting AFTER the slight delay Lindsey was asking for anyways. It will never make sense to me beyond an opportunity for Stevie to make a power move (that really didn't gain her any power in the end because the whole band splintered)

[HomerMcvie]

All for the sake of an insignificant greatest hits tour that wound up starting AFTER the slight delay Lindsey was asking for anyways. It will never make sense to me beyond an opportunity for Stevie to make a power move (that really didn't gain her any power in the end because the whole band splintered)

I've said it for 20 years, but she's the worst thing that ever happened to FM. SHE became the brand.

When's the last time they were creative as a band? 2003? Twenty f*cking years ago?

Nope. 2017, when the old goat refused to participate. I'll say it again.... SHE'S THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO FM.

[Penguin Emeritus]

How long was she having the back pain? I'm guessing that was the cancer causing that.

My last show was Louisville BuckVie(and Nashville before that). I'm very happy that those were my last shows, and not the Petty's Crowded House sh*tshow cover band(which I had zero interest in seeing).
I've heard she was having very bad back pain for the last couple of Tours they did, and then the last few years she was back in the UK it was terrible. Not sure if it was related to the cancer, I guess it could have been and she just didn't know what it was. She kept saying it was scoliosis.

--Lis

[HomerMcvie]

I've heard she was having very bad back pain for the last couple of Tours they did, and then the last few years she was back in the UK it was terrible. Not sure if it was related to the cancer, I guess it could have been and she just didn't know what it was. She kept saying it was scoliosis.

--Lis
My birth father had cancer in his spine. I've told my doctors that, and they've said cancer never starts there. It's traveled there, from unchecked cancer elsewhere.

[aleuzzi]

I've said it for 20 years, but she's the worst thing that ever happened to FM. SHE became the brand.

When's the last time they were creative as a band? 2003? Twenty f*cking years ago?

Nope. 2017, when the old goat refused to participate. I'll say it again.... SHE'S THE WORST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO FM.

But we have BuckVie—posterity won out and with time, when stars fade or the cults of personality shift, that 2017 album will still be there: to comfort the diehards; and to be discovered by the musically curious of a later age excavating the music of our time.

[dougl]

But we have BuckVie—posterity won out and with time, when stars fade or the cults of personality shift, that 2017 album will still be there: to comfort the diehards; and to be discovered by the musically curious of a later age excavating the music of our time.

So very true.

[HomerMcvie]

But we have BuckVie—posterity won out and with time, when stars fade or the cults of personality shift, that 2017 album will still be there: to comfort the diehards; and to be discovered by the musically curious of a later age excavating the music of our time.

I MUCH prefer it that BuckVie was the last creative chapter. God, they looked so happy making that album, and doing the tour. YOU COULD SEE THE LOVE.

[jbrownsjr]

I MUCH prefer it that BuckVie was the last creative chapter. God, they looked so happy making that album, and doing the tour. YOU COULD SEE THE LOVE.

Watching that video gave my goose bumps.

[UnwindedDreams]

But we have BuckVie—posterity won out and with time, when stars fade or the cults of personality shift, that 2017 album will still be there: to comfort the diehards; and to be discovered by the musically curious of a later age excavating the music of our time.

Honestly you should be a University Professor. Incredible post.

In 2027, 25 year olds can can say Wow! Christine made a rocking last album!

[bwboy]

All for the sake of an insignificant greatest hits tour that wound up starting AFTER the slight delay Lindsey was asking for anyways. It will never make sense to me beyond an opportunity for Stevie to make a power move (that really didn't gain her any power in the end because the whole band splintered)

But what a greatest hits tour it was! So happy I got to see Christine singing Isn’t It Midnight, Little Lies, Everywhere, You Make Loving Fun, and of course Tell Me All the Things You Do, a song I thought she’d never sing live again. I’m thankful she performed one last tour for the fans- she clearly didn’t need the money and I kind of suspect she had an instinct this would be her last tour, and she gave her usual all.

[UnwindedDreams]

But what a greatest hits tour it was! So happy I got to see Christine singing Isn’t It Midnight, Little Lies, Everywhere, You Make Loving Fun, and of course Tell Me All the Things You Do, a song I thought she’d never sing live again. I’m thankful she performed one last tour for the fans- she clearly didn’t need the money and I kind of suspect she had an instinct this would be her last tour, and she gave her usual all.
Why no live dvd or recording of such a special tour? There's a video of the 87 Tour, The Dance and Say You Will Tour and the making of Say You Will, and a making of LBCM. If the 2018 Tour is in the history books, it'll be in there because Lindsey wasn't on the tour.

Even Stevie said to Zane Lowe last year, when the tour was over, IT was over.

Fleetwood Mac's 2017 album lives forever.

P.S. I was very happy to hear Songbird, Think About Me, Over My Head, World Turning, Don't Stop, and Say You Love Me in 2014 and The Classic West.

[elle]

Fleetwood Mac's 2017 album lives forever.

P.S. I was very happy to hear Songbird, Think About Me, Over My Head, World Turning, Don't Stop, and Say You Love Me in 2014 and The Classic West.

and also Hold Me, Little Lies, Everywhere, You Make Loving Fun, and Wish You Were Here plus 8 new fantastic sounding songs on 2017 BuckVie tour!

[bwboy]

Why no live dvd or recording of such a special tour? There's a video of the 87 Tour, The Dance and Say You Will Tour and the making of Say You Will, and a making of LBCM. If the 2018 Tour is in the history books, it'll be in there because Lindsey wasn't on the tour.

They didn’t release the Unleashed or On With the Show tours either. We can’t have ‘em all, I guess :distress: It would be nice to have them all available. Especially the BTM tour.

[bombaysaffires]

Watching that video gave my goose bumps.

did they ever make it available on dvd? I think I only ever saw the making-of footage online....

[HomerMcvie]

and also Hold Me, Little Lies, Everywhere, You Make Loving Fun, and Wish You Were Here plus 8 new fantastic sounding songs on 2017 BuckVie tour!

The highlights of my 46 years(kill me now) of fandom were the Mirage Tour, and BuckVie.

I felt like I was 16 at BuckVie. And I love that album.

[UnwindedDreams]

They didn’t release the Unleashed or On With the Show tours either. We can’t have ‘em all, I guess :distress: It would be nice to have them all available. Especially the BTM tour.
But the point is that there's video of the Rumours lineup and the Tango lineup. No dvd or live album of the No New Music and Covers Tour lineup.

[jbrownsjr]

did they ever make it available on dvd? I think I only ever saw the making-of footage online....

I wish. Bonus materials would be a great thing if this album ever gets re-packaged.

[BigAl84]

But what a greatest hits tour it was! So happy I got to see Christine singing Isn’t It Midnight, Little Lies, Everywhere, You Make Loving Fun, and of course Tell Me All the Things You Do, a song I thought she’d never sing live again. I’m thankful she performed one last tour for the fans- she clearly didn’t need the money and I kind of suspect she had an instinct this would be her last tour, and she gave her usual all.

I'd rather see (which I did) You Make Loving Fun, Everywhere, and Little Lies with the original guitarist. She probably didn't need the money, but evidently she needed it enough for her new house. Sorry Christine, I love ya but...

[bwboy]

I'd rather see (which I did) You Make Loving Fun, Everywhere, and Little Lies with the original guitarist. She probably didn't need the money, but evidently she needed it enough for her new house. Sorry Christine, I love ya but...

“Probably didn’t need the money?” You can’t possibly think Christine needed the money from the tour. She sold her catalog for a pretty penny right after, but I doubt it was because she “needed the money.” And I was ok seeing her perform those songs no matter who was playing guitar, whether it was Lindsey, Neil, or the second guitarist FM used on every tour. Just like I was just as happy when Lindsey performed Go Your Own Way whether Mick played drums or John played bass lol.

[HomerMcvie]

“Probably didn’t need the money?” You can’t possibly think Christine needed the money from the tour. She sold her catalog for a pretty penny right after, but I doubt it was because she “needed the money.” And I was ok seeing her perform those songs no matter who was playing guitar, whether it was Lindsey, Neil, or the second guitarist FM used on every tour. Just like I was just as happy when Lindsey performed Go Your Own Way whether Mick played drums or John played bass lol.

OF COURSE you were okay with whoever was on guitar. We'd expect nothing different from you.

[jbrownsjr]

OF COURSE you were okay with whoever was on guitar. We'd expect nothing different from you.

To be fair, I'd go see Christine even if goat was on guitar. :laugh:

[bwboy]

OF COURSE you were okay with whoever was on guitar. We'd expect nothing different from you.

:laugh: OF COURSE I was ok Homer! Just like I was ok when I saw Lindsey live and another guy besides Mick was playing drums and another guy was playing bass besides John. It seemed like everyone else there was ok with it, too!

[BigAl84]

“Probably didn’t need the money?” You can’t possibly think Christine needed the money from the tour. She sold her catalog for a pretty penny right after, but I doubt it was because she “needed the money.” And I was ok seeing her perform those songs no matter who was playing guitar, whether it was Lindsey, Neil, or the second guitarist FM used on every tour. Just like I was just as happy when Lindsey performed Go Your Own Way whether Mick played drums or John played bass lol.

It's hard for me to believe she needed the cash, but I'm just repeating what she told Lindsey. "Sorry, I had just purchased a house"

My biggest beef with the 2018 tour is that there are cover bands that do a better job with the material than they did.

[aleuzzi]

My biggest beef with the 2018 tour is that there are cover bands that do a better job with the material than they did.

Not a truer word has been spoken.

[David]

My biggest beef with the 2018 tour is that there are cover bands that do a better job with the material than they did.

You should hear Leonid & Friends do Chicago’s “Beginnings.” Uncanny.

[bwboy]

It's hard for me to believe she needed the cash, but I'm just repeating what she told Lindsey. "Sorry, I had just purchased a house"

My biggest beef with the 2018 tour is that there are cover bands that do a better job with the material than they did.

What can I say, I liked Christine. Sorry you and Aleuzzi thought a cover band was better than her. Which is what you both just said, that a cover band was better than Christine, John, Mick, Stevie, Mike, and Neil. So go see a cover band. Me, I just like Fleetwood Mac and the various members. I don’t worship one person so much that I hate the band. But that’s just me. OF COURSE! LOL!

[UnwindedDreams]

What can I say, I liked Christine. Sorry you and Aleuzzi thought a cover band was better than her. Which is what you both just said, that a cover band was better than Christine, John, Mick, Stevie, Mike, and Neil. So go see a cover band. Me, I just like Fleetwood Mac and the various members. I don’t worship one person so much that I hate the band. But that’s just me. OF COURSE! LOL!
You just mischaracterized what they said. They were talking about Mike and Neil.

I saw four shows and I'll tell you from my 50 plus FM shows, they were forgettable. Mike's guitar made the evening sound like a honky tonk. There was no nuance in Hypnotized, it was a carbon copy of the recording. And I can't believe I heard 3 covers in an FM show that was supposed to celebrate the band's songs!

And aleuzzi for sure is one of the biggest fans of Christine. BigAl is a major FM fan and I think was a huge Stevie fan. These are not worshippers of Lindsey.

[SteveMacD]

And I can't believe I heard 3 covers in an FM show that was supposed to celebrate the band's songs!

Fleetwood Mac playing songs from members’ other works was hardly new or unexpected. You can spin it however you want, but it’s something they’d frequently done prior to 2018.

[SteveMacD]

It's hard for me to believe she needed the cash, but I'm just repeating what she told Lindsey. "Sorry, I had just purchased a house"
That house was in maybe the most expensive neighborhood in London, which is one of the most expensive cities on Earth. She very well might have needed the tour money.

My biggest beef with the 2018 tour is that there are cover bands that do a better job with the material than they did.

Of course a cover guitarist trying to copy Lindsey is going to sound better. They’re not a legendary Hall of Fame guitarist with their own distinctive sound. They’re not trying to find a way to fit their sound into the songs.

[jbrownsjr]

That house was in maybe the most expensive neighborhood in London, which is one of the most expensive cities on Earth. She very well might have needed the tour money.





I always took that as the down payment came from tour money instead of dipping into her stash.

[UnwindedDreams]

Fleetwood Mac playing songs from members’ other works was hardly new or unexpected. You can spin it however you want, but it’s something they’d frequently done prior to 2018.
Spin an ice cream cone if you'd like.
Did Neil or Mike make new music with Mick, John, Stevie, and Christine in 2018?

It was unexpected, until the article where Mike said they were doing Free Fallin, because Mick said this was a new band. A new band means new music. Once you make new music with the band then you get to play your own stuff with FM. Did Neil or Mike play on any of the recordings of the FM songs that were performed in 2018 and 2019?

The 2018-2019 was the worst FM tour I saw.

[UnwindedDreams]

Fleetwood Mac playing songs from members’ other works was hardly new or unexpected. You can spin it however you want, but it’s something they’d frequently done prior to 2018.
Where's the live album and dvd of the 2018 tour? It's been 4 years

[SteveMacD]

Spin an ice cream cone if you'd like.
Did Neil or Mike make new music with Mick, John, Stevie, and Christine in 2018?

It was unexpected, until the article where Mike said they were doing Free Fallin, because Mick said this was a new band. A new band means new music. Once you make new music with the band then you get to play your own stuff with FM. Did Neil or Mike play on any of recordings of the FM songs that were performed in 2018 and 2019?

The 2018-2019 was the worst FM tour I saw.

That’s spin, though. It doesn’t change the fact that Fleetwood Mac has often played songs from a members’ other works. “Get Like You Used To Be” will always be a Chicken Shack song Christine brought into the Fleetwood Mac set.

[SteveMacD]

Where's the live album and dvd of the 2018 tour? It's been 4 years

Where’s the live album and DVD of the 2009 tour? It’s been 14 years. When can we get new versions of Fleetwood Mac classics like “Stand Back” and “Go Insane,” or a lovely duet of “Say You Love Me?”

[UnwindedDreams]

That’s spin, though. It doesn’t change the fact that Fleetwood Mac has often played songs from a members’ other works. “Get Like You Used To Be” will always be a Chicken Shack song Christine brought into the Fleetwood Mac set.
Why do you not acknowledge that it's a fact that each time a new member brought in their own work into a FM setlist, that member had made music as a member of FM?

The Don't Stop compilation did not have Hey Now Hey Now, I Got You, and Free Fallin on it. And should a 50 Year Tour have songs in it from people who had nothing to do with any of the songs on the 50 Year compilation?

[bwboy]

You just mischaracterized what they said. They were talking about Mike and Neil.

I definitely did not mischaracterize what they said. They said Christine and Lindsey’s tour was incredible, but when Christine toured with Fleetwood Mac, a cover band did better than FM. I’m not misquoting them or taking anything they said out of context. It’s their opinion and they have the right to it. I just disagree. I think Christine was fantastic on the FM tour. Maybe they liked Christine better on her tour with Lindsey because she didn’t play keyboards much and they had prerecorded backing vocals? Who knows.

[UnwindedDreams]

Where’s the live album and DVD of the 2009 tour? It’s been 14 years. When can we get new versions of Fleetwood Mac classics like “Stand Back” and “Go Insane,” or a lovely duet of “Say You Love Me?”
You are a true 2018 lineup apologist! Billy and Rick got a video, LSMJ got 2 videos, and LCMJ got a video.

The 2018 tour was not remarkable. Like Stevie says "we had to do the tour and when it was over, it was over"

[UnwindedDreams]

I definitely did not mischaracterize what they said. They said Christine and Lindsey’s tour was incredible, but when Christine toured with Fleetwood Mac, a cover band did better than FM. I’m not misquoting them or taking anything they said out of context. It’s their opinion and they have the right to it. I just disagree. I think Christine was fantastic on the FM tour. Maybe they liked Christine better on her tour with Lindsey because she didn’t play keyboards much and they had prerecorded backing vocals? Who knows.

You said they said a cover band is better than her. They did not say a cover band was better than Christine. True fans of the Rumours lineup understood what they meant.

[BigAl84]

I definitely did not mischaracterize what they said. They said Christine and Lindsey’s tour was incredible, but when Christine toured with Fleetwood Mac, a cover band did better than FM. I’m not misquoting them or taking anything they said out of context. It’s their opinion and they have the right to it. I just disagree. I think Christine was fantastic on the FM tour. Maybe they liked Christine better on her tour with Lindsey because she didn’t play keyboards much and they had prerecorded backing vocals? Who knows.

Yeah you totally put words in my mouth. I didn’t single out Christine and say a cover band was better than HER. Jfc…

[SteveMacD]

You are a true 2018 lineup apologist! Billy and Rick got a video, LSMJ got 2 videos, and LCMJ got a video.

Not an apologist, just a fan who was tired of seeing the band on autopilot with completely predictable setlists, guitar solos, etc. and the over reliance on prerecords.

The highlight of the LBCM tour, for me, was seeing Christine having a good time on stage as well as hearing WYWH and “Hold Me” live. Otherwise, it was total Memorex, and that’s not my cup of tea.

I mean, I wasn’t a fan of the classic lineup not riding out into the sunset, but I was also not a fan of the prospect of another Memorex tour void of any spontaneity (aside from the ridiculously long, rambling speeches). I still would have gone because I wasn’t missing Mick, John, and especially Christine at their ages, but there would have been a frustration with that, too.

There were no perfect options for 2018. However, I got to hear all of the standards as well as Fleetwood Mac deep cuts and Lindsey Buckingham deep cuts, just not together. That’s more than I would have gotten without the split.

The 2018 tour was not remarkable. Like Stevie says "we had to do the tour and when it was over, it was over"

Where did she say that? I haven’t really seen her comment too much about it. Anyway, those early shows were remarkable and courageous by Fleetwood Mac standards.

[BigAl84]

Not an apologist, just a fan who was tired of seeing the band on autopilot with completely predictable setlists, guitar solos, etc. and the over reliance on prerecords.

The highlight of the LBCM tour, for me, was seeing Christine having a good time on stage as well as hearing WYWH and “Hold Me” live. Otherwise, it was total Memorex, and that’s not my cup of tea.

I mean, I wasn’t a fan of the classic lineup not riding out into the sunset, but I was also not a fan of the prospect of another Memorex tour void of any spontaneity (aside from the ridiculously long, rambling speeches). I still would have gone because I wasn’t missing Mick, John, and especially Christine at their ages, but there would have been a frustration with that, too.

There were no perfect options for 2018. However, I got to hear all of the standards as well as Fleetwood Mac deep cuts and Lindsey Buckingham deep cuts, just not together. That’s more than I would have gotten without the split.



Where did she say that? I haven’t really seen her comment too much about it. Anyway, those early shows were remarkable and courageous by Fleetwood Mac standards.

Uh…didn’t they cut the majority of the blues material and uh…..replaced it with predictable hits? They were adventurous for about a quarter of the entire tour?

[SteveMacD]

Why do you not acknowledge that it's a fact that each time a new member brought in their own work into a FM setlist, that member had made music as a member of FM?

Because, regardless of the context, it doesn’t change the fact that Fleetwood Mac has a history of playing songs from members’ works outside of Fleetwood Mac.

However one chooses to contextualize Fleetwood Mac playing non-Fleetwood Mac songs is arbitrary. You contextualize it in a way that I don’t.

[BigAl84]

The only time between 1987-2018 that Fleetwood Mac attempted to go “all in” on the pre-75 material was in the absence of key members of the ‘75 lineup. It’s the same bull***** PR move they always revert back to while in crisis mode and incredibly enough somehow people buy into it as some profound thing to do. They had to fill out a set list, they could have done an all blues era tour but they chose not to. They rounded out the set with some blues tunes, a crowded house crowd pleaser and a Tom Petty crowd pleaser. There’s nothing effing courageous about it. It was a calculated move at every level and had nothing to do with a genuine reboot of the pre 75 material.

[SteveMacD]

Uh…didn’t they cut the majority of the blues material and uh…..replaced it with predictable hits? They were adventurous for about a quarter of the entire tour?

Yeah, but that quarter was still the most adventurous thing they’ve done since the SYW tour. They eventually went mostly went on autopilot, with a few exceptions, like “Hold Me” and the occasional “Man of the World” and “Blue Letter.” However, even then, it wasn’t a total Memorex tour.

In retrospect, though, if they weren’t making new music, they really should have just brought back Billy and Rick. I don’t “get the premise” of bringing in two internationally acclaimed songwriters and musicians into the band and not making a new album.

[BigAl84]

As a fan of the pre 75 material - a tour with Mick, John, Christine, and Mike would have been sublime. That would have been the courageous move to make as a true revisit of that material. That alone probably would have earned them a residency at The Beacon and a PBS special.

[SteveMacD]

As a fan of the pre 75 material - a tour with Mick, John, Christine, and Mike would have been sublime. That would have been the courageous move to make as a true revisit of that material.

I would have loved a Bare Trees 50th Anniversary theater tour with Mick, John, Christine, Mike, and Neil.

[SteveMacD]

The only time between 1987-2018 that Fleetwood Mac attempted to go “all in” on the pre-75 material was in the absence of key members of the ‘75 lineup. It’s the same bull***** PR move they always revert back to while in crisis mode and incredibly enough somehow people buy into it as some profound thing to do. They had to fill out a set list, they could have done an all blues era tour but they chose not to. They rounded out the set with some blues tunes, a crowded house crowd pleaser and a Tom Petty crowd pleaser. There’s nothing effing courageous about it. It was a calculated move at every level and had nothing to do with a genuine reboot of the pre 75 material.

That’s a straw man. They never stated their goal was to go “all in” with the pre-1975 (and post-1987) material. They never denied that adding the non-Rumours material was anything other than a way to fill setlist space. It was never meant to be anything other than revisiting material they hadn’t done in a while in the absence of a principal songwriter.

In the case of the 2018 tour, they were doing a full career retrospective tour for a career retrospective comp that was coming out during the tour.

[UnwindedDreams]

In the case of the 2018 tour, they were doing a full career retrospective tour for a career retrospective comp that was coming out during the tour. Then why were three covers that FM never played before in a career retrospective tour setlist.

[UnwindedDreams]

Not an apologist, just a fan who was tired of seeing the band on autopilot with completely predictable setlists, guitar solos, etc. and the over reliance on prerecords.

The highlight of the LBCM tour, for me, was seeing Christine having a good time on stage as well as hearing WYWH and “Hold Me” live. Otherwise, it was total Memorex, and that’s not my cup of tea.

I mean, I wasnÂ’t a fan of the classic lineup not riding out into the sunset, but I was also not a fan of the prospect of another Memorex tour void of any spontaneity (aside from the ridiculously long, rambling speeches). I still would have gone because I wasnÂ’t missing Mick, John, and especially Christine at their ages, but there would have been a frustration with that, too.

There were no perfect options for 2018. However, I got to hear all of the standards as well as Fleetwood Mac deep cuts and Lindsey Buckingham deep cuts, just not together. ThatÂ’s more than I would have gotten without the split.



Where did she say that? I havenÂ’t really seen her comment too much about it. Anyway, those early shows were remarkable and courageous by Fleetwood Mac standards.
Again, she said it to Zane Lowe.

I would say the 2003 and 2013 setlists were courageous by FM standards. Lots of new songs in 2003 plus Beautiful Child and return of Never Going Back Again. 2013 had the return of Sisters of the Moon after 30 years, a Buckingham Nicks demo, a new FM song, Not that Funny, Eyes of the World after 10 years. And as a fan of Stevie's costumes, they certainly were awesome for that.

Stevie showed no courage in 2018. Storms was done 80 times on Unleashed. Black Magic Woman is not her song and she spoke sang her way through it and did her ah-ah-ah-ahs.

If there was not going to be any new music in 2018 and they were truly courageous, they would have done 3 Behind The Mask Songs by Rick and Billy. Dropped Lindsey's 3 songs and do 3 from Time: Talkin To My Heart, Blow by Blow, and I Got It in For You. Stevie would have done Crystal, Angel, Affairs of the Heart, Sara, and No Questions Asked instead of Dreams, Landslide, Gold Dust Woman, Black Magic Woman, and Free Fallin' - keep Rhiannon for the hits fans and Storms so she could sing it to Mick.

I thought Christine's songs were fine.

Other than Tusk, what songs had prerecords in the 2014 Tour?

[SteveMacD]

Again, she said it to Zane Lowe.

I would say the 2003 and 2013 setlists were courageous by FM standards. Lots of new songs in 2003 plus Beautiful Child and return of Never Going Back Again. 2013 had the return of Sisters of the Moon after 30 years, a Buckingham Nicks demo, a new FM song, Not that Funny, Eyes of the World after 10 years. And as a fan of Stevie's costumes, they certainly were awesome for that.

Stevie showed no courage in 2018. Storms was done 80 times on Unleashed. Black Magic Woman is not her song and she spoke sang her way through it and did her ah-ah-ah-ahs.

If there was not going to be any new music in 2018 and they were truly courageous, they would have done 3 Behind The Mask Songs by Rick and Billy. Dropped Lindsey's 3 songs and do 3 from Time: Talkin To My Heart, Blow by Blow, and I Got It in For You. Stevie would have done Crystal, Angel, Affairs of the Heart, Sara, and No Questions Asked instead of Dreams, Landslide, Gold Dust Woman, Black Magic Woman, and Free Fallin' - keep Rhiannon for the hits fans and Storms so she could sing it to Mick.
:shocked:

If you say so.

[SteveMacD]

Then why were three covers that FM never played before in a career retrospective tour setlist.

I’ve answered that several times already.

[UnwindedDreams]

:shocked:

If you say so.
Same bully of The Ledge who is mean to posters, thinks he's the be all and end all of FM, and belittles people. Different day.

[jbrownsjr]

Was I completely thrown when goat had Lindsey replaced? Sort of devastated and hurt, to be honest.
Did I blame the proper person for the firing? Yes, I believe I had blamed the direct person that caused it.

But, would I pass up the chance to see Christine McVie perform again after crying for years she'd left music and art? Absolutely not.
And she did play keyboards. I could see and hear them. Was it Sergei Rachmaninov, no.... But it was ****ing Christine McVie!

And if we are keeping score. The BTM tour in 1990, Cleveland, was one of the best FM shows I've ever seen. Electric and simply fantastic.
I have to agree with Steve that the Rumours 5 tour (as it was)... getting boring. Same thing every time. The 2018 show did have a few different things. Mostly Mick was unbelievably good that show.
Why was it getting boring. Because there's simply no chemistry left between SN/LB. They both bore me. But the core of FM is still a well oiled and beautiful machine.

[bwboy]

Was I completely thrown when goat had Lindsey replaced? Sort of devastated and hurt, to be honest.
Did I blame the proper person for the firing? Yes, I believe I had blamed the direct person that caused it.

But, would I pass up the chance to see Christine McVie perform again after crying for years she'd left music and art? Absolutely not.
And she did play keyboards. I could see and hear them. Was it Sergei Rachmaninov, no.... But it was ****ing Christine McVie!

And if we are keeping score. The BTM tour in 1990, Cleveland, was one of the best FM shows I've ever seen. Electric and simply fantastic.
I have to agree with Steve that the Rumours 5 tour (as it was)... getting boring. Same thing every time. The 2018 show did have a few different things. Mostly Mick was unbelievably good that show.
Why was it getting boring. Because there's simply no chemistry left between SN/LB. They both bore me. But the core of FM is still a well oiled and beautiful machine.

jbrownsjr, I’m in love. Seriously, what a great post. So cool, calm, and collected. And yes, that was a deliberate quote. This idea that Christine performed so incredibly on the Buck/Vie tour but not so on the following FM tour just seemed like a projection of their feelings for FM (and Stevie in particular) than an objective observer. Christine was incredible on that last tour, and was absolutely glowing. Yes, she had aged and the singing showed that, but man, what a night. I’m very thankful we all had the opportunity to see her a few more times live, with Lindsey and with FM.

I also appreciate your acknowledgment that the FM tour had some good things about it, even without Lindsey. Just like the Buck/Vie show had good things about it, and the BTM had good things about that, and the Time tour had good things about that, etc. it’s ok to say that all the various tours had some great qualities, as well as some disappointments, maybe.

I also appreciated your comments about Lindsey’s firing. I was initially shocked and appalled as well, but obviously came to feel way differently about it than many people here. Can you be hurt and angry about Lindsey’s firing AND still enjoy seeing FM live? Both things can be true.

[HomerMcvie]

jbrownsjr, I’m in love. Seriously, what a great post. So cool, calm, and collected. And yes, that was a deliberate quote. This idea that Christine performed so incredibly on the Buck/Vie tour but not so on the following FM tour just seemed like a projection of their feelings for FM (and Stevie in particular) than an objective observer. Christine was incredible on that last tour, and was absolutely glowing. Yes, she had aged and the singing showed that, but man, what a night. I’m very thankful we all had the opportunity to see her a few more times live, with Lindsey and with FM.

I also appreciate your acknowledgment that the FM tour had some good things about it, even without Lindsey. Just like the Buck/Vie show had good things about it, and the BTM had good things about that, and the Time tour had good things about that, etc. it’s ok to say that all the various tours had some great qualities, as well as some disappointments, maybe.

I also appreciated your comments about Lindsey’s firing. I was initially shocked and appalled as well, but obviously came to feel way differently about it than many people here. Can you be hurt and angry about Lindsey’s firing AND still enjoy seeing FM live? Both things can be true.

Sucking up to the mods will get you nowhere. :D

[bwboy]

Sucking up to the mods will get you nowhere. :D

Wait- jbrownsjr is a moderator? I had no idea! I just know that lately, jbrownsjr’s posts have been incredibly well written, beautifully articulated, and stunningly accurate. And I love the new cologne he’s wearing. But no way would I suck up to the mods? :thumbsup:

[BigAl84]

https://media.giphy.com/media/sbwjM9VRh0mLm/giphy.gif

Good grief I thought we were having a conversation about a tour, not kissing each others a$$.

[BigAl84]

That’s a straw man. They never stated their goal was to go “all in” with the pre-1975 (and post-1987) material. They never denied that adding the non-Rumours material was anything other than a way to fill setlist space. It was never meant to be anything other than revisiting material they hadn’t done in a while in the absence of a principal songwriter.

In the case of the 2018 tour, they were doing a full career retrospective tour for a career retrospective comp that was coming out during the tour.

Not to split hairs, but that collection was released Nov. 16 and the tour kicked off October 3. The tour didn't exactly kick off with new product. Sounds like they knew they needed to recoup cash with the ticket sales of that first leg being a complete disaster.

"All-In" is perhaps the wrong term, but that's the material they fall back on to fill in gaps, to sell/put spin on a new lineup. Irving Azoff had Stevie blabbering on about her love of the blues material when she didn't even know who wrote Black Magic Woman. My point being, there wasn't much courageous about it. It was the '87 playbook for the second time with different people.

[jbrownsjr]

https://media.giphy.com/media/sbwjM9VRh0mLm/giphy.gif

Good grief I thought we were having a conversation about a tour, not kissing each others a$$.

Yea but we all know what BIG AL stands for. :xoxo::nod:

[UnwindedDreams]

Not to split hairs, but that collection was released Nov. 16 and the tour kicked off October 3. The tour didn't exactly kick off with new product. Sounds like they knew they needed to recoup cash with the ticket sales of that first leg being a complete disaster.

"All-In" is perhaps the wrong term, but that's the material they fall back on to fill in gaps, to sell/put spin on a new lineup. Irving Azoff had Stevie blabbering on about her love of the blues material when she didn't even know who wrote Black Magic Woman. My point being, there wasn't much courageous about it. It was the '87 playbook for the second time with different people.
Stevie left the stage for Tell Me All the Things and Oh Well. John told Mike he hates Tell Me All the Things:laugh: Maybe the same reason I didn't like it live: where are the lyrics? 2 sentences.

[HomerMcvie]

Wait- jbrownsjr is a moderator? I had no idea! I just know that lately, jbrownsjr’s posts have been incredibly well written, beautifully articulated, and stunningly accurate. And I love the new cologne he’s wearing. But no way would I suck up to the mods? :thumbsup:

No idea???:lol::lol::lol:

I now understand why you're a $tevie worshipper.

[BigAl84]

Yea but we all know what BIG AL stands for. :xoxo::nod:

LOL I'm not sure where you're going with that comment. I was literally 14 when I joined the ledge eons ago. The nickname came from being really tall for my age in grade school.

[SteveMacD]

Not to split hairs, but that collection was released Nov. 16 and the tour kicked off October 3. The tour didn't exactly kick off with new product.
Yep, which is why I said “that was coming out during the tour.”

Sounds like they knew they needed to recoup cash with the ticket sales of that first leg being a complete disaster.
The comp was well in the works when Lindsey was still in the band. Things like that don’t just happen.

Anyway, the three shows I went to were packed, save for maybe the top three or four rows. I had nosebleeds, so I got a bird’s-eye view.

My point being, there wasn't much courageous about it. It was the '87 playbook for the second time with different people.
Doing a song from Time in 2018 was courageous. Reminding people that album exists was courageous and definitely something Lindsey would never have entertained.

[jbrownsjr]

LOL I'm not sure where you're going with that comment. I was literally 14 when I joined the ledge eons ago. The nickname came from being really tall for my age in grade school.

Haha.. well the joke was meant for your ADULT self. :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

No idea???:lol::lol::lol:

I now understand why you're a $tevie worshipper.

I feel like there is insult to me here. :shocked::shocked::angel:

[SteveMacD]

LOL I'm not sure where you're going with that comment. I was literally 14 when I joined the ledge eons ago. The nickname came from being really tall for my age in grade school.

You mean it’s not a South Park reference?

[bwboy]

I feel like there is insult to me here. :shocked::shocked::angel:

No way! I think Homer may be just a teensy weensy bit jealous of our blossoming romance, even though it’s purely one sided :xoxo:

Sorry my sweet talk was annoying you, BigAl- if you want I can start arguing with you again LOL.

[HomerMcvie]

I feel like there is insult to me here. :shocked::shocked::angel:

I would NEVER insult you, my friend.

[HomerMcvie]

No way! I think Homer may be just a teensy weensy bit jealous of our blossoming romance, even though it’s purely one sided :xoxo:

If you're trying to "take one for the team", I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.

I keep a 2x4 in my trunk, just for such occasions.

[jbrownsjr]

I would NEVER insult you, my friend.

I love you like a B3 hammond with a Fender Rhodes piano attached.

[HomerMcvie]

I love you like a B3 hammond with a Fender Rhodes piano attached.

I identify more as a Hohner clavinet.

I expect you to address me as such.

[jbrownsjr]

I identify more as a Hohner clavinet.

I expect you to address me as such.

You are Stevie's Triangle.

[BigAl84]

No way! I think Homer may be just a teensy weensy bit jealous of our blossoming romance, even though it’s purely one sided :xoxo:

Sorry my sweet talk was annoying you, BigAl- if you want I can start arguing with you again LOL.

Eh…I wasn’t looking to argue with anyone.

[BigAl84]

You are Stevie's Triangle.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve read all day. :]:]

[BigAl84]

You mean it’s not a South Park reference?

Steve if you wanted to know if I was gay, you could have simply asked like an adult. I’m straight.

[SteveMacD]

Steve if you wanted to know if I was gay, you could have simply asked like an adult. I’m straight.

Didn’t know, don’t care, and I never assume anything, especially in a Fleetwood Mac setting. It’s just…Whenever I see “Big” and “Al” together, there’s only one cultural reference that immediately comes to mind.

[HomerMcvie]

You are Stevie's Triangle.

So this means that Joe Walsh AND Mick have been in my triangle?

Ain't enough Clorox in the world to wash away the crotch rot stank in this triangle.

[HomerMcvie]

Didn’t know, don’t care, and I never assume anything, especially in a Fleetwood Mac setting. It’s just…Whenever I see “Big” and “Al” together, there’s only one cultural reference that immediately comes to mind.

I don't get the reference. Seriously. What's a big al, to which you're referring?

[SteveMacD]

I don't get the reference. Seriously. What's a big al, to which you're referring?

South Park character.

[HomerMcvie]

South Park character.

That explains why I don't know. I watched it the first season or two, then stopped.

So what is Big Al on SP?

[SteveMacD]

That explains why I don't know. I watched it the first season or two, then stopped.

So what is Big Al on SP?

A recurring character.

[HomerMcvie]

A recurring character.

I finally remembered that Google is my friend

Check.

[jbrownsjr]

Steve if you wanted to know if I was gay, you could have simply asked like an adult. I’m straight.

I am FB friends w/ Steve. He's gay friendly and definitely wouldn't be afraid to ask. As for you being straight, I never thought about it. You give off a neutral vibe. I didn't know you were so young. Now, I feel old.

[BigAl84]

It's all good, no offense taken.

I was in my teens when I joined the ledge 20+ years ago. I'm only a few years short of 40 at the moment. I did witness the Dance Tour in '97!

I'm definitely starting to feel old right along with all the other geezers here!

[BigAl84]

So this means that Joe Walsh AND Mick have been in my triangle?

Ain't enough Clorox in the world to wash away the crotch rot stank in this triangle.

Ohh I thought he was implying that you are about as useful as Stevie playing the triangle or a taped up silent tambourine! We're talking love triangles...ohh la la!!

[jbrownsjr]

So this means that Joe Walsh AND Mick have been in my triangle?

Ain't enough Clorox in the world to wash away the crotch rot stank in this triangle.

Always a bridge too far!! :rolleyes:

[bwboy]

If you're trying to "take one for the team", I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.

I keep a 2x4 in my trunk, just for such occasions.

Sounds like you’re packing quite a bit of wood.

[HomerMcvie]

Sounds like you’re packing quite a bit of wood.

Well, I didn't want to brag....


But the 2x4 is for strapping across one's arse, so one doesn't fall into a rather large triangle.

Not implying that your triangle is large. Is it?:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

So yea, BuckVie Cleveland looked like it was amazing.

[BigAl84]

Another exceptional ledge thread that stayed on topic!

[bwboy]

This thread has been brought to you by Grindr :laugh: :sorry:

[bwboy]

Anywaayyy… back to the topic- I do wish I had seen Lindsey and Christine this tour. I was just really busy at the time, and while I thought the album was decent, I didn’t feel much of an emotional connection. Or at least enough of one to make the drive. Clearly that was a huge error in my thinking. After I saw Lindsey and FM solo in November, I decided then and there I would make every effort to see them live anytime they toured again. Of course, I’ve already broken that promise, as I skipped Lindsey’s last tour, but that was due to Covid and because he didn’t perform anywhere even remotely close to me.

And now it’s truly too late.

[aleuzzi]

Stevie left the stage for Tell Me All the Things and Oh Well. John told Mike he hates Tell Me All the Things:laugh: Maybe the same reason I didn't like it live: where are the lyrics? 2 sentences.

TATTYD is one of my favorite FM tunes with KILLER guitar. A feast for riffers. John might hate it (and, if so, he's wrong, sorry John!) but everyone plays beautifully on it. I love the concise, two-line lyric. We don't need more than that. "Coming Your Way," "Child of Mine," and "Bare Trees" are similarly terse. "Station Man" and "Like it This Way" aren't much more expansive. And this is one of the things I loved about Danny's incredible contributions to the band's songbook: it's the instrumentation that gets center stage. Those tunes are extremely hummable--as opposed to commercial. And they allow the band to open up a bit more. Christine's organ and electric keyboard work on "Child of Mine," for instance, is rad, as is Mick's drumming and John's propulsive bass...

I digress. As all of you were, which was...where again? I forgot.

[jbrownsjr]

Anywaayyy… back to the topic- I do wish I had seen Lindsey and Christine this tour. I was just really busy at the time, and while I thought the album was decent, I didn’t feel much of an emotional connection. Or at least enough of one to make the drive. Clearly that was a huge error in my thinking. After I saw Lindsey and FM solo in November, I decided then and there I would make every effort to see them live anytime they toured again. Of course, I’ve already broken that promise, as I skipped Lindsey’s last tour, but that was due to Covid and because he didn’t perform anywhere even remotely close to me.

And now it’s truly too late.

You were too busy playing PR control for your jaded Queen. :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

TATTYD is one of my favorite FM tunes with KILLER guitar. A feast for riffers. John might hate it (and, if so, he's wrong, sorry John!) but everyone plays beautifully on it. I love the concise, two-line lyric. We don't need more than that. "Coming Your Way," "Child of Mine," and "Bare Trees" are similarly terse. "Station Man" and "Like it This Way" aren't much more expansive. And this is one of the things I loved about Danny's incredible contributions to the band's songbook: it's the instrumentation that gets center stage. Those tunes are extremely hummable--as opposed to commercial. And they allow the band to open up a bit more. Christine's organ and electric keyboard work on "Child of Mine," for instance, is rad, as is Mick's drumming and John's propulsive bass...

I digress. As all of you were, which was...where again? I forgot.

Everything you said. It is such a groove. And John hates everyone and everything.

[UnwindedDreams]

Anywaayyy… back to the topic- I do wish I had seen Lindsey and Christine this tour. I was just really busy at the time, and while I thought the album was decent, I didn’t feel much of an emotional connection. Or at least enough of one to make the drive. Clearly that was a huge error in my thinking. After I saw Lindsey and FM solo in November, I decided then and there I would make every effort to see them live anytime they toured again. Of course, I’ve already broken that promise, as I skipped Lindsey’s last tour, but that was due to Covid and because he didn’t perform anywhere even remotely close to me.

And now it’s truly too late.
Didn't you suggest earlier that Lindsey didn't have Christine play keys at those 2017 concerts? Just asking for clarification. Thank you!

[bwboy]

Didn't you suggest earlier that Lindsey didn't have Christine play keys at those 2017 concerts? Just asking for clarification. Thank you!

Other people who saw the Buck/Vie shows said that Christine didn’t play keyboards , or at least not as much as when she toured with FM, including on this very thread, and I acknowledged that. I certainly didn’t say Lindsey kept her from playing keyboards, nor has anyone else as far as I remember. Where in the world did you hear anyone say Lindsey kept Christine from playing keyboards?

[HomerMcvie]

Other people who saw the Buck/Vie shows said that Christine didn’t play keyboards , or at least not as much as when she toured with FM, including on this very thread, and I acknowledged that. I certainly didn’t say Lindsey kept her from playing keyboards, nor has anyone else as far as I remember. Where in the world did you hear anyone say Lindsey kept Christine from playing keyboards?

They probably meant that (I've read here, but don't know) Lindsey loves playing with the karaoke tracks these days. If Christine's too old to do it, just let the karaoke machine do it.:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Wasn't it when Brett died, and Lindsey was on tour?, they didn't even replace him? Just unmute another karaoke track....

30yo Lindsey would kick 70yo's Lindsey's ass for this.

[SteveMacD]

They probably meant that (I've read here, but don't know) Lindsey loves playing with the karaoke tracks these days. If Christine's too old to do it, just let the karaoke machine do it.:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Wasn't it when Brett died, and Lindsey was on tour?, they didn't even replace him? Just unmute another karaoke track....

30yo Lindsey would kick 70yo's Lindsey's ass for this.

Which is the primary reason I preferred the 18-19 band in that moment. Christine showed the world she could still kick ass.

I felt like Lindsey diminished her. (To be fair, she never complained about it).

[HomerMcvie]

Which is the primary reason I preferred the 18-19 band in that moment. Christine showed the world she could still kick ass.

I felt like Lindsey diminished her. (To be fair, she never complained about it).

I think she liked Lindsey being in charge. She always preferred being a side~man~.

[bwboy]

They probably meant that (I've read here, but don't know) Lindsey loves playing with the karaoke tracks these days. If Christine's too old to do it, just let the karaoke machine do it.:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Wasn't it when Brett died, and Lindsey was on tour?, they didn't even replace him? Just unmute another karaoke track....

30yo Lindsey would kick 70yo's Lindsey's ass for this.

I couldn’t imagine a scenario where Lindsey would somehow keep Christine from playing, but what you said makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

[jbrownsjr]

Which is the primary reason I preferred the 18-19 band in that moment. Christine showed the world she could still kick ass.

I felt like Lindsey diminished her. (To be fair, she never complained about it).

When you listen to her body of work without him, I feel (at times) he absolutely diminished her.

[SteveMacD]

I think she liked Lindsey being in charge. She always preferred being a side~man~.

I wonder if she ever even wanted to sing when she was in Chicken Shack? Chicken Shack was Stan’s band and she was just the keyboardist. She even made an effort to look kind of butch to not draw attention to herself in the early days. I have a weird suspicion that Mike Vernon pushed it, given the novelty of a woman in a blues band. Three of Chicken Shack’s first four singles featured Christine on lead vocals, which is weird, considering Stan was the primary frontman by far.

Even in the early days with Fleetwood Mac, she played more of a supporting role, with singing and songwriting being more of a formality. Danny dominated FG and BT and Bob became the dominant creative force with MTM and HAHTF. Penguin was the exception, where Christine being more of an equal force in the band, but then she reverted back to being more of a supporting character in the band.

All of which makes her being the one with the breakthrough hit single and the most singles all the more crazy. It wasn’t Bob, Stevie, or Lindsey, it was Christine.

[jbrownsjr]

And if you look at Penguin to Heroes, you see the sheer quality of her work.

[Penguin Emeritus]

I wonder if she ever even wanted to sing when she was in Chicken Shack? Chicken Shack was Stan’s band and she was just the keyboardist. She even made an effort to look kind of butch to not draw attention to herself in the early days. I have a weird suspicion that Mike Vernon pushed it, given the novelty of a woman in a blues band. Three of Chicken Shack’s first four singles featured Christine on lead vocals, which is weird, considering Stan was the primary frontman by far.

Even in the early days with Fleetwood Mac, she played more of a supporting role, with singing and songwriting being more of a formality. Danny dominated FG and BT and Bob became the dominant creative force with MTM and HAHTF. Penguin was the exception, where Christine being more of an equal force in the band, but then she reverted back to being more of a supporting character in the band.

All of which makes her being the one with the breakthrough hit single and the most singles all the more crazy. It wasn’t Bob, Stevie, or Lindsey, it was Christine.


I don't think she enjoyed singing in Chicken Shack, she had very little confidence in her voice at that time. You may be right that Mike Vernon may have pushed her a bit..? Also stan was so odd, and he couldn't sing well... and maybe turned some people off with his antics. chris i think had that 'girl next door' appeal that audiences probably got into, and that sultry voice. i think she far preferred being the supporting character. she said Over My Head was the last song they ever thought would be a single.

mick and John have both said she was not the type of girl you could push around, but at the same time when she was younger I think she was not as strong in terms of her professional career...she felt pushed into the solo album, etc...and it was very much a man's world back then. I think by dressing 'tomboyishly' she was trying NOT to draw attention to herself. She said in 1968 that 'the one thing John did to change me was to get me to dress more like a girl' lol. but even in later years, she would be the first to say she preferred to be in jeans. she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

--Lis

[SteveMacD]

she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

On a similar note, once Fleetwood Mac moved to Los Angeles, was suddenly in Top 40 with HAHTF, and touring with Jefferson Starship (as opposed to Deep Purple), I have no doubt there was pressure on Christine to become more of a Grace Slick type front-woman. So, when there was suddenly the prospect of a girly-girl front-woman to own that lane joining Fleetwood Mac, I bet Christine was absolutely relieved, if not thrilled. That had to take enormous pressure off her.

[elle]

Anywaayyy… back to the topic- I do wish I had seen Lindsey and Christine this tour. I was just really busy at the time, and while I thought the album was decent, I didn’t feel much of an emotional connection. Or at least enough of one to make the drive. Clearly that was a huge error in my thinking. After I saw Lindsey and FM solo in November, I decided then and there I would make every effort to see them live anytime they toured again. Of course, I’ve already broken that promise, as I skipped Lindsey’s last tour, but that was due to Covid and because he didn’t perform anywhere even remotely close to me.

And now it’s truly too late.

you do what you can and need to, whatever works for you.

i am glad i managed to see Lindsey in Cleveland, Philly and Charlottesville on his spring 2022 leg. i had tickets for Tysons which is the closest to me, but that was the show that got cancelled because of COVID. same with several shows i had tickets for in November 2022 which were all cancelled because of COVID.

still happy for people in Europe who at least got Berlin and London... when i read their reviews talking about all the solo songs it just dawned on me how they never had a chance to hear his solo songs live before and how lucky we are stateside.

[UnwindedDreams]

When you listen to her body of work without him, I feel (at times) he absolutely diminished her.

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

[aleuzzi]

And if you look at Penguin to Heroes, you see the sheer quality of her work.

Yes, she didn’t “need” him to “help” her. Prove Your Love and Bad Loser are proof of that.

Are her songs generally improved by Lindsey’s presence? Yes—and that’s because of his energy. His freneticism alongside her ultra cool is magic.

But—the ideas and the craftsmanship of the songs are all hers. In fact, sometimes, IMO, his presence did NOT improve a song. He knew how to make them radio darlings but sometimes at the cost of muting her keyboards or mucking with her voice.

[jbrownsjr]

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

Disrespected, no. Look at YMLF. That's pretty much all her. He adds an amazing guitar solo. And they both play off each other on this one. I just believe he isn't the "do all end all" cutting edge she needs.
Having said that, they really work well together. Lots of magic.

[aleuzzi]

I don't think she enjoyed singing in Chicken Shack, she had very little confidence in her voice at that time. You may be right that Mike Vernon may have pushed her a bit..? Also stan was so odd, and he couldn't sing well... and maybe turned some people off with his antics. chris i think had that 'girl next door' appeal that audiences probably got into, and that sultry voice. i think she far preferred being the supporting character. she said Over My Head was the last song they ever thought would be a single.

mick and John have both said she was not the type of girl you could push around, but at the same time when she was younger I think she was not as strong in terms of her professional career...she felt pushed into the solo album, etc...and it was very much a man's world back then. I think by dressing 'tomboyishly' she was trying NOT to draw attention to herself. She said in 1968 that 'the one thing John did to change me was to get me to dress more like a girl' lol. but even in later years, she would be the first to say she preferred to be in jeans. she was never a girly girl. which maybe was why she was able to function as well as she did on the road in the early days, with no frills.

--Lis

Vernon definitely pushed her—and thankfully so. She had a shocking lack of confidence and feared being the center of attention. In the ranks of the RUMOURS lineup, this was an endearing quality, but at the beginning she must have been terrified any time she assumed the spotlight.

You note that she played down any girliness in those early days. I definitely see that from her initial tours with FM. There are times when she altered her voice to sound like a male belter! Live versions of “Crazy Bout You Baby” (Madison Blues) bear this out.

Her vocal attack on Morning Rain is straight-up butch. It appears to have been a choice since an earlier version (called “Start Again”) shows her singing more like the woman we came to know on later albums. (The earlier version is also in a higher key.)

I think when she started, she was super-conscious of joining an all-male guitar-heavy band with a history of tough blues. She wanted to support that legacy while making her niche. It took a few years (1973) to fully realize her style.

[SteveMacD]

Yes, she didn’t “need” him to “help” her. Prove Your Love and Bad Loser are proof of that.

Are her songs generally improved by Lindsey’s presence? Yes—and that’s because of his energy. His freneticism alongside her ultra cool is magic.

But—the ideas and the craftsmanship of the songs are all hers. In fact, sometimes, IMO, his presence did NOT improve a song. He knew how to make them radio darlings but sometimes at the cost of muting her keyboards or mucking with her voice.

Stevie needed a developer.

Christine, at most, occasionally needed an editor and benefited from the aesthetic touches Lindsey brought to her songs. I still think if there had been time to be forward thinking, “Come A Little Bit Closer” would have been an FM radio staple. But, they had bigger problems to contend with.

[SteveMacD]

Do you think Mick or John ever told Lindsey that he disrespected Christine in that way?

For Christine specifically, no, and they wouldn’t have had to. Christine was a force to be reckoned with in her own right. She was also the most accomplished musician in Fleetwood Mac, so she could hold her own with him.

John has publicly stated he felt disrespected by Lindsey and Mick had to tell Lindsey on more than one occasion that he was part of a band and having others playing on his songs was the expectation.

[UnwindedDreams]

Stevie needed a developer.
One of the Stevie biography books says Tom Moncrieff developed Stevie's ideas and then Stevie presented the developed recordings to Lindsey. Example was Sara and Smile At You.

[HomerMcvie]

One of the Stevie biography books says Tom Moncrieff developed Stevie's ideas and then Stevie presented the developed recordings to Lindsey. Example was Sara and Smile At You.

So you're saying she even less talent than previously imagined?

Check.

[SteveMacD]

So you're saying she even less talent than previously imagined?

Check.

Seems more like she decided to work with someone else to flush out her songs.

[HomerMcvie]

Seems more like she decided to work with someone else to flush out her songs.

Most of her later songs needed flushed out.




Proofreading is your friend...:laugh:

[SteveMacD]

Most of her later songs needed flushed out.




Proofreading is your friend...:laugh:

It’s Cinco de Mayo. I’m lucky to still be spelling McVie.

[HomerMcvie]

It’s Cinco de Mayo. I’m lucky to still be spelling McVie.

Taylor Swift would approve.


Btw, I love multi platform references. Five years from now, I'll be all, "wtf was I referring to?"

[UnwindedDreams]

So you're saying she even less talent than previously imagined?

Check.
The writer was suggesting that Lindsey didn't contribute to Stevie's songs because someone else did the work.

[HomerMcvie]

The writer was suggesting that Lindsey didn't contribute to Stevie's songs because someone else did the work.

I'm aware, but thanks for explaining the rather obvious.

[UnwindedDreams]

I'm aware, but thanks for explaining the rather obvious.
I heard you're the writer of this book:p:laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

It’s Cinco de Mayo. I’m lucky to still be spelling McVie.

I had to spend 6th day Mayo in bed because of Cinco de Mayo. But, it was fun!!

[SteveMacD]

I had to spend 6th day Mayo in bed because of Cinco de Mayo. But, it was fun!!

I drank from 6:30 to 7:30.

No, not that one. The other one.

My fiancée was laughing hysterically at my color commentary during the coronation. I finally went to bed when the sun was so bright that squinting led to dozing off. By that point, I was too exhausted to brush my teeth.

I was too hungover to even joke about having a cocktail while listening to the Stones while watching the Derby. Also, I was too hungover to listen to the Stones.

[jbrownsjr]

I drank from 6:30 to 7:30.

No, not that one. The other one.

My fiancée was laughing hysterically at my color commentary during the coronation. I finally went to bed when the sun was so bright that squinting led to dozing off. By that point, I was too exhausted to brush my teeth.

I was too hungover to even joke about having a cocktail while listening to the Stones while watching the Derby. Also, I was too hungover to listen to the Stones.

I went to a local gay bar 40 year celebration. Started with bourbon around 6pm. Luckily, went to bed around 2:30am. I no longer could stare at then stairs.

[WalkAThinLine.]

I no longer could stare at the stairs.

Well there are many things to stare at these days

[jbrownsjr]

Well there are many things to stare at these days

True, but I was a true ghost in the fog all day Saturday.

[SteveMacD]

True, but I was a true ghost in the fog all day Saturday.

Luckily, I mostly drank at home, because I was in no condition to walk a thin line.

[HomerMcvie]

I went to a local gay bar 40 year celebration. Started with bourbon around 6pm. Luckily, went to bed around 2:30am. I no longer could stare at then stairs.

I drank 4 tall boy PBR's, along with a couple shots of bourbon. Home for a nap and a sammich. Woke up and drove to my late night honky-tonk. Left said honky-tonk at 1am, but Taylor Swift had sold out the football stadium(3 days in a row), and my car was trapped in a gridlock of traffic that wasn't moving at all. So I walked home, and walked back at 4am to get my car. Color me not a Taylor Swift fan...

[jbrownsjr]

Luckily, I mostly drank at home, because I was in no condition to walk a thin line.

I Uber'd so I didn't have to be So Afraid.

[jbrownsjr]

I drank 4 tall boy PBR's, along with a couple shots of bourbon. Home for a nap and a sammich. Woke up and drove to my late night honky-tonk. Left said honky-tonk at 1am, but Taylor Swift had sold out the football stadium(3 days in a row), and my car was trapped in a gridlock of traffic that wasn't moving at all. So I walked home, and walked back at 4am to get my car. Color me not a Taylor Swift fan...

That's enraging. I'm mindful of events here in Los Angeles so I don't run into more gridlock than I can. I also use google maps, they have great traffic chart/maps.

[SteveMacD]

I Uber'd so I didn't have to be So Afraid.

Beats getting in trouble.

[HomerMcvie]

That's enraging. I'm mindful of events here in Los Angeles so I don't run into more gridlock than I can. I also use google maps, they have great traffic chart/maps.

I have a secret place I park in downtown Nashville, and it's NEVER a problem, until Friday.
Her show last night was on a huge rain delay, and ran until 1:30am. Yes, I can hear it from my living room. I can't believe authorities let a concert blast until 1:30am!

[Villavic]

I've said it for 20 years, but she's the worst thing that ever happened to FM. SHE became the brand.



I get lost cause didn't read all posts of this thread so I don't know what this have to do with the thread's topic, but since you mentioned it, I remember chili D always said that Stevie + Lindsey was the worst thing that happened to Fleetwood Mac.

[jmn3]

Beats getting in trouble.

A whole lotta trouble

[jbrownsjr]

A whole lotta trouble

In Shangri La!

[HomerMcvie]

I get lost cause didn't read all posts of this thread so I don't know what this have to do with the thread's topic, but...

This must be your first time here...

Welcome to The Ledge! :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

This must be your first time here...

Welcome to The Ledge! :lol:

For Scarlet!