The Katz Tapes: 1987 Christine McVie Interview

[dougl]

https://thekatztapes.library.northeastern.edu/item/neu:4f16j311v/

[Macfan4life]

Oh wow! Thanks so much for posting. This was incredible for so many reasons. It was recorded right at that unique time of the uncertainty of touring after Tango. Chris says she is unsure about a tour because "some people" like touring more than others.
Chris is so optimistic here. She had just married Eddy 6 months before this recording. One funny moment is her Freudian slip when she says " I don't think the drinking and drugs have stopped" Then she catches herself and says, I do think it has stopped and its a good thing. She talks about John and Stevie's sobriety.
The interviewer is not shy and goes there about her 1984 solo album being underrated. Chris admits to being disappointed with the lack of success of the album. She questioned why so many claimed her album sounded too much like Fleetwood Mac as if that was a bad thing. She has incredible memories of making the album and proudly admits its a damn good album and she will always be impressed by it. She talks about doing another solo album and hoped it would be more successful the next year (1988).
The interviewer says he was going to interview Lindsey next. Oh wow I hope someone finds that interview and posts it. His post Tango pre-leaving era is fascinating.
Listening to this interview brought back so many memories of being so excited for the new album in 1987 and possible tour. BTW, who was the original producer of Tango that did not work out? Chris says they hired a producer that the 5 over powered and did not work out.

[SteveMacD]

Didn’t she say it was Russ?

[dougl]

And Lindsey

https://thekatztapes.library.northeastern.edu/item/neu:4f16nx22v/

[SteveMacD]

Wow, he was pompous and insufferable.

The whole Bryan Adams/Kodo thing was just so…unnecessary.

Also, I didn’t realize the painting/moving making analogy had been around that long.

And why would they have gotten an English guitarist?!? Not that there’s anything wrong with English guitarists, but that was so…oddly specific. Did he think Clapton was still an option for Fleetwood Mac? Was he thinking Jeff Beck (R.I.P.)?

That said, the irony of him saying in 1987 that he didn’t see himself doing Fleetwood Mac in ten years was kind of priceless.

[Macfan4life]

Wow, he was pompous and insufferable.

The whole Bryan Adams/Kodo thing was just so…unnecessary.

Also, I didn’t realize the painting/moving making analogy had been around that long.

And why would they have gotten an English guitarist?!? Not that there’s anything wrong with English guitarists, but that was so…oddly specific. Did he think Clapton was still an option for Fleetwood Mac? Was he thinking Jeff Beck (R.I.P.)?

That said, the irony of him saying in 1987 that he didn’t see himself doing Fleetwood Mac in ten years was kind of priceless.
In 1982 (Creem magazine) he said he did not see himself touring after he turned 40 :lol:

[Macfan4life]

Didn’t she say it was Russ?
Russ produced her solo album. I did not hear her say he was the producer for Tango unless I missed it. She said the band hired a producer who did not work out. I dont think she mentioned a name.

[Macfan4life]

And Lindsey

https://thekatztapes.library.northeastern.edu/item/neu:4f16nx22v/
OMG. These are so juicy. I cant get enough. So much information. Usually we get the same questions and answers from the Mac about the breaking up stories told to death.

Who was the band member who's lawyer brought the first producer? Irving? Lindsey was supposed to come in and do his 4 songs and leave. After several days they figured it was not going to work and Lindsey took over.

Lindsey says Big Love and Family Man are the songs from his solo album that was in the works. Lindsey also says its Stevie on Family Man. Wow!!!!!

You can tell Lindsey is not that happy. He does not commit to touring and says if it does happen it should not happen until the next year (1988).

Both Chris and Lindey both sort of bash Mirage for being what the audience wanted. However Lindsey describes Tango as a radio album with lots of singles. What's the difference? IMHO Mirage is a much superior album.

Lindsey was right about a few things in the future. He predicts a year after its release Tango will have a single still floating out there. He says if its the last Mac album its an album he is proud of. It would be the last album of these 5.

These interviews are so unique that they take place right before the band would change forever. Its only weeks before the big blow out at Christine's house. Once Lindsey left all the dynamics changed. So its interesting to read the tea leaves listening to these interviews.



Thanks again for posting. What a find!

[Macfan4life]

Its so funny to remember in the 1980s and then being 40 was really old. Its funny when Lindsey starts counting the ages and guess that Chris and John are now 40. Then the interviewer mentions that Bill Wyman of the Stones is a whopping 50 years old and touring. It was almost shocking and the Stones were mocked for touring in their early 50s :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

But now they're all dying. Because they're playing right up to the jumping off point now. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they'd want to tour past being 70. Their bodies aching, and their memory going.

Give me a house on the water, with neighbors who share my love for red wine. The end.
"Ooh look, there's a hottie on the beach!"

[Macfan4life]

But now they're all dying. Because they're playing right up to the jumping off point now. For the life of me, I can't figure out why they'd want to tour past being 70. Their bodies aching, and their memory going.

Give me a house on the water, with neighbors who share my love for red wine. The end.
"Ooh look, there's a hottie on the beach!"
That's what they thought they wanted to do when they were in their 40s. Chris hung it up and lived in her refurbished beautiful house. The Eagle's Hell Freezes Over tour seemed to change everything. Bands made some good coin when going on tour in the 70s and 80s. By the 90s and beyond touring is so lucrative it lures them back. Even Lindsey who was not thrilled with going on tour with the Mac changed his tune in the 90s. Just think, Stevie grossed more money on one tour in 2016-1017 24K Gold tour than all over her other tours combined. There are such big bucks at stake, it makes them do it. As they say, everyone has their price. John was completely happy on his boat in 1987 but he eventually came back.
Lindsey is not solo touring for the money. Its something that he finally enjoys doing with his craft.

[HomerMcvie]

That's what they thought they wanted to do when they were in their 40s. Chris hung it up and lived in her refurbished beautiful house. The Eagle's Hell Freezes Over tour seemed to change everything. Bands made some good coin when going on tour in the 70s and 80s. By the 90s and beyond touring is so lucrative it lures them back. Even Lindsey who was not thrilled with going on tour with the Mac changed his tune in the 90s. Just think, Stevie grossed more money on one tour in 2016-1017 24K Gold tour than all over her other tours combined. There are such big bucks at stake, it makes them do it. As they say, everyone has their price. John was completely happy on his boat in 1987 but he eventually came back.
Lindsey is not solo touring for the money. Its something that he finally enjoys doing with his craft.
If I had 50 million bucks, I wouldn't care. You can only spend so much(unless you're idiot Mick).

[SteveMacD]

In 1982 (Creem magazine) he said he did not see himself touring after he turned 40 :lol:

I remember Christine saying she didn’t see her doing it at 50. She was 47 at the time. :laugh:

[Villavic]

I remember Christine saying she didn’t see her doing it at 50. She was 47 at the time. :laugh:

She was 54 in 1997 (The Dance) and it seems she didn't enjoy it so at that time it made sense. But people change and in 2014 I could see she really enjoyed On With The Show.

[aleuzzi]

Great interview. Talking to her is like talking to a thoroughly pleasant, thoughtful, warm person. So un-Hollywood. No ego.

What gives this chat an added interest is the timing in the band’s history. So much uncertainly — which was unsettling but potentially exciting. I remember hoping TANGO would be the start of a new run of FM records with this lineup, but upon hearing it, Lindsey’s imminent break away, forcing the band to reorganize itself, was apparent. Stevie sounded like she had come to the (sad) end of her career, Christine’s (excellent) pop tunes felt engineered to BE hits as opposed to emerging as hits. And all of Lindsey’s material, save the title track, sounded as if it were recorded alone by him. Tango is a contrived success, a calculated project—but a massively appealing one.

What pleased me about MASK (which I otherwise hated) is to hear how strong Christine and Stevie’s vocals sounded minus the synths and engineering. The arrangements were generic late 80s fare but you could tell beneath all that that the women still had a lot to give…

[David]

Who was the band member who's lawyer brought the first producer? Irving? Lindsey was supposed to come in and do his 4 songs and leave. After several days they figured it was not going to work and Lindsey took over.

When the project started, an engineer named Jason Casaro was slated to produce in order to allow Lindsey a little respite from those chores. At some point after Casaro, there’s a story that the band contacted Nigel Rodgers, the mastermind behind Chic. According to Mick, after a very short time, the band realized that an outsider was not going to be either willing or able to do things the Fleetwood Mac way.

[Macfan4life]

When the project started, an engineer named Jason Casaro was slated to produce in order to allow Lindsey a little respite from those chores. At some point after Casaro, there’s a story that the band contacted Nigel Rodgers, the mastermind behind Chic. According to Mick, after a very short time, the band realized that an outsider was not going to be either willing or able to do things the Fleetwood Mac way.
Thank you so much David.
Who was the band member who had their attorney pick the producer (according to Lindsey). My hunch was Stevie and Irving. But during Tango Stevie fired Irving but maybe this was before the Frontline debacle. But if it was Stevie, that seems pretty brazen thing to do. But maybe it was Mick trying to force the project along. Lindsey stated that was what irked him. The lawyer almost forcing the band to make the record. That detail makes me think maybe it was Mick's lawyer?
Fascinating piece of Mac history.

[SteveMacD]

Thank you so much David.
Who was the band member who had their attorney pick the producer (according to Lindsey). My hunch was Stevie and Irving. But during Tango Stevie fired Irving but maybe this was before the Frontline debacle. But if it was Stevie, that seems pretty brazen thing to do. But maybe it was Mick trying to force the project along. Lindsey stated that was what irked him. The lawyer almost forcing the band to make the record. That detail makes me think maybe it was Mick's lawyer?
Fascinating piece of Mac history.

I don’t think Irving was in the picture at that point.

[Macfan4life]

I don’t think Irving was in the picture at that point.
Thats what I first thought too. However the groundwork for Tango started as early as late 1985. Stevie did not fire Frontline until before or after her RAL tour which would be mid 1986 at the earliest. So I am curious who Lindsey is referring too. He refers to a "band member's manager who is a lawyer."

[SteveMacD]

Thats what I first thought too. However the groundwork for Tango started as early as late 1985. Stevie did not fire Frontline until before or after her RAL tour which would be mid 1986 at the earliest. So I am curious who Lindsey is referring too. He refers to a "band member's manager who is a lawyer."

Obviously not JC, Dennis, or Steve Wax and probably not whoever was managing Lindsey.

[Macfan4life]

Great interview. Talking to her is like talking to a thoroughly pleasant, thoughtful, warm person. So un-Hollywood. No ego.

What gives this chat an added interest is the timing in the band’s history. So much uncertainly — which was unsettling but potentially exciting. I remember hoping TANGO would be the start of a new run of FM records with this lineup, but upon hearing it, Lindsey’s imminent break away, forcing the band to reorganize itself, was apparent. Stevie sounded like she had come to the (sad) end of her career, Christine’s (excellent) pop tunes felt engineered to BE hits as opposed to emerging as hits. And all of Lindsey’s material, save the title track, sounded as if it were recorded alone by him. Tango is a contrived success, a calculated project—but a massively appealing one.

What pleased me about MASK (which I otherwise hated) is to hear how strong Christine and Stevie’s vocals sounded minus the synths and engineering. The arrangements were generic late 80s fare but you could tell beneath all that that the women still had a lot to give…
Exactly! I agree with everything you said.
I cant get enough of this sliver of an era. Its so weird to listen and know what was about to happen. What also makes these interviews fascinating is the interviewer. It sounds like we are eavesdropping on a private conversation. Yes they were called to promote Tango but we get all sorts of juicy details. Its more of a conversation than interview. Few interviewers would dare call an artist's solo album underrated (even though he meant it as a compliment) but it really opened up Chris to express her emotions. There is no slick promotion or ass kissing in these interviews. When someone interrupts Lindsey at his house, the interviewer asks him point blank......where are you? We also get a timestamp on these interviews which is several weeks after Seven Wonders was released. I am guessing this interview was probably in July 1987 which was one month before things blew up. I remember listening to radio promos of Tango in May 1987 and the band was always asked about touring and Lindsey was coy but sounded like he was teasing and things were a go. In this interview you sense the tension about touring. Both Chris and Lindsey almost say the same thing i.e. some like touring more than others. Chris is so happy here while Lindsey seems torn. Just incredible historic interviews. Its cute and I love how Eddy always kept Chris updated on the music charts. Lindsey mentions how he kept track of that stuff too. My other question would be is Lindsey lying that its Stevie on Family Man? If not then what other song did he fake her voice? The controversial Everywhere topic? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Macfan4life]

Obviously not JC, Dennis, or Steve Wax and probably not whoever was managing Lindsey.
Another clue is that 1985 Pre-RAL interview Stevie does with her gloves that is famous in Youtube. Its filmed May 1985 and says the Mac will be going to the studio in November that year which she says is about the time she might be touring (in reality her album was not even released until November 1985). However, its clear she was aware of these recordings and starting an album. She was definitely represented by Irving at that time.

[tango87]

Thanks so much for excavating these - real historical artefacts!

It's really good to hear Christine and the interviewer defending her solo album; underrated is definitely the word. In fact, I was just thinking today that it's probably the FM solo record that I've listened to the most, out of all their efforts, which really surprised me, especially as I would always have said I was a Lindsey fan most of all.

There's something cohesive about it - it has a true band feel, and her writing is so good, so positive and melodic. It makes me very happy to hear Christine's voice upfront for a whole album's-worth of songs.

[SteveMacD]

I always thought it was ironic that her solo album was a true collaborative group effort throughout, but the albums she was making with Fleetwood Mac really weren’t.

[tango87]

I suppose that's a good definition of a team player - while in FM she was able to recognise and support the strengths of those around her, while keeping her own identity, but maybe her truest instincts were to be part of a traditional 'band'.

[aleuzzi]

I always thought it was ironic that her solo album was a true collaborative group effort throughout, but the albums she was making with Fleetwood Mac really weren’t.

There’s a lot of truth here. She made that record the way she made projects prior to TUSK—she engaged all the available resources and often deferred to her colleagues, even when she was fronting the project.

[aleuzzi]

There is no slick promotion or ass kissing in these interviews.

I enjoyed that aspect of them, too. It’s journalism, not PR-driven puff pieces.

[Penguin Emeritus]

cool interview. I still have to hear Lindsey's . BTW chris said John had stopped drinking but that didn't last too long at that time, unfortunately. in 1995 he definitely still was, around the dance tour he still was. for the Q&A's here I think he was in a 'trying to stop' phase... it has been a really tough battle.

--Lis

[Macfan4life]

cool interview. I still have to hear Lindsey's . BTW chris said John had stopped drinking but that didn't last too long at that time, unfortunately. in 1995 he definitely still was, around the dance tour he still was. for the Q&A's here I think he was in a 'trying to stop' phase... it has been a really tough battle.

--Lis
That's ok. Stevie wasn't really clean either.

[aleuzzi]

That's ok. Stevie wasn't really clean either.

Neither was Mick, according to his own statements in his Two Sticks and a Drum doc.

[Macfan4life]

Neither was Mick, according to his own statements in his Two Sticks and a Drum doc.
OMG yes, he was probably the worst during this time especially bringing dealers to Lindsey's driveway. I found Chris's Freudian slip funny. It may not have been a Freudian slip and really misspoke. She may have truly believed what she was saying but since we know it was not true, it makes it funny to hear it when she says "I dont believe the drugs and drinking are gone" then she catches herself and says something like "I mean I do believe" I am paraphrasing but I found that entertaining. Although John and Stevie were definitely in a better place. Stevie's tranquilizer addiction was just starting and probably not that obvious yet.

[DownOnRodeo]

For the life of me, I can't figure out why they'd want to tour past being 70. Their bodies aching, and their memory going.


They chose to dance across the stages of the world.