Timespace era

[Macfan4life]

We all know the Timespace era was sort of messed up. Stevie's "best of" album got delayed because of the unexpected delay in the Fleetwood Mac Behind the Mask/Farewell tour. The band made up for months of postponed gigs because of Chris's father's passing. Stevie was brought songs to make her "hip and current" and she was not crazy about doing them. She toured prior to the album's release. Its hard to promote something that is not available yet. Stevie was in bad shape almost at her peak of tranquilizer addiction. Even her song Desert Angel written for the troops missed its release and the war was over by the time the album was released. The whole era sort of encompasses her life at that time......sort of unorganized. 1991 was a recession year and not many were going to concerts. I saw the Whole Lotta Trouble show in Pittsburgh and she had only about 7,500 in attendance. Her 1989 OSOTM tour had almost twice the crowd.
Having said that, there are some definite highlights of this era. Even though Stevie was probably in poor physical health with tranquilizer addiction, she sounded really good. Her tour, while short, had some highlights. After several tours not performing If Anyone Falls, it made it back into the set. Her band was the best IMHO. I loved Mark from Heart as the bassist. Les Dudek is an incredible guitarist. She had 2 guitarists for the first time in her band it it rocked giving her songs so many edges they never had before. Songs like Talk To Me were really good and Stevie could still throw her voice around. The added sax to If Anyone Falls was unexpected and good. Stand Back had its first extended ending. The explosions during the beginning of Edge of 17 were a bit much but.....ok. Landslide was brought back into the set during the BTM tour. But Stevie continued to do it during this tour and it was an electric version. At the time the song performed live was new again but looking back and listening now, it seems cutting edge to perform the song with electric guitars. And her band brought in an acoustic guy while the other guitarists played electric. During the Timespace/Whole Lotta Trouble tour we got Les's electric guitar solo. During the Whiskey live broadcast we got the keyboard solo in Landslide. I just love it. She rocked the house down during her Live at the Whiskey show that was broadcast in 1991. I remember seeing Stevie with Rhonda Shear on the UP ALL NIGHT shows on USA in the early 90s. Stevie mentioned how she just got off the road and missed it already. But this broadcast also features the only other live performance of Love's A Hard Game To Play. She does a great job. The most rocking version of SDMHA too.

Live at the Whiskey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqq2pBuoW_o

Stevie with Rhonda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk9Kwuz-dj8

[Macfan4life]

Another odd thing from the Timespace era was the IRS audit of Stevie's 1991 taxes. The IRS did not buy her claim of clothing deductions from the Whole Lotta Trouble tour.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-11-05-fi-61545-story.html

[UnwindedDreams]

And there was the Stevie and Mick falling out too.

I wonder if the two new tracks were included on TimeSpace because her people saw how well Madonna's 1990 compilation did with new songs on it.

[Macfan4life]

And there was the Stevie and Mick falling out too.

I wonder if the two new tracks were included on TimeSpace because her people saw how well Madonna's 1990 compilation did with new songs on it.
Yeah Stevie going on the record bashing Mick was pretty cool ;) I think her record company saw the decline in her brand and sales. It was the early 90s and both OSOTM and BTM were not considered big successes. I dont think Sometimes Its a Bitch is a bad song but if it was the first single from OSTOM I think it would have been a hit. Bon Jovi was at its prime in 1989.

Another highlight for me in 1991 was Rhiannon. I loved the full rock encore and no piano intro. The "will you take me with you" was pretty cool too

[WalkAThinLine.]

I wonder if the two new tracks were included on TimeSpace because her people saw how well Madonna's 1990 compilation did with new songs on it.

Even prior to that, Fleetwood Mac's 1988 Greatest Hits album included two new tracks and eventually went 8x platinum in the US. None of the new singles from either Greatest Hits or Timespace performed well on the charts, although their inclusion on the compilations was certainly a selling point for those who already owned the studio albums.

[UnwindedDreams]

Even prior to that, Fleetwood Mac's 1988 Greatest Hits album included two new tracks and eventually went 8x platinum in the US. None of the new singles from either Greatest Hits or Timespace performed well on the charts, although their inclusion on the compilations was certainly a selling point for those who already owned the studio albums.
Was the Greatest Hits album a hot seller when it was first released in 1988?

[WalkAThinLine.]

Was the Greatest Hits album a hot seller when it was first released in 1988?

Not particularly, although like many compilations by established artists, it continued to rack up sales long after its initial release.

As you can see here, Greatest Hits only achieved 2X platinum status by 1993, but by 2000, it sold another six million units.

https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=Fleetwood+Mac&ti=Greatest+Hits&format=Album&type=#search_section

[HomerMcvie]

Not particularly, although like many compilations by established artists, it continued to rack up sales long after its initial release.

As you can see here, Greatest Hits only achieved 2X platinum status by 1993, but by 2000, it sold another six million units.

https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=Fleetwood+Mac&ti=Greatest+Hits&format=Album&type=#search_section

Unless you're an addict like us, it's perfect for the casual fan.

You know, the ones who think that Stevie is THE lead singer for the band.

[Macfan4life]

Timespace should have had After The Glitter Fades instead of Beauty and The Beast.

Greatest Hits packages made by record companies usually contain a packaged song they think will be a hit to promote the album. Sometimes it works but sometimes it does not work. Both Nicks and the Mac had their lead "new" song from their package tank. But the albums still sold fairly well. Timespace sold more during its release than OSOTM.

Pat Benatar was brilliant in promoting her Live from Earth album and included Love IS A Battlefied which won her a grammy. I still believe its the only solo female rock artist to have a platinum live album. Yet she is still excluded from the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame.

Speaking of Timespace, I loved the remix that Chris did. But as the years go by (like a strand in the wind), a few things changed. Now I prefer the Wild Heart version of Stand Back. I always missed the drum part mid song that was toned down. I loved when the echo of repeating Just like the white winged dove was taken out when Timespace was released. As the years go by, I have went back to liking the studio version of Edge of 17 better.

The Dance made ALL Fleetwood Mac albums sell tons more and most especially the Greatest Hits album.

[bwboy]

Timespace should have had After The Glitter Fades instead of Beauty and The Beast.

Pat Benatar was brilliant in promoting her Live from Earth album and included Love IS A Battlefied which won her a grammy. I still believe its the only solo female rock artist to have a platinum live album. Yet she is still excluded from the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame.

Pat Benatar was accepted into the RRHOF this year, so she’s not excluded. She will be inducted in November.

I think Beauty and the Beast deserves to be on Stevie’s greatest hits album. I like After the Glitter Fades, but B&B is quintessential Stevie and more representative of her as a whole, I think. I’m just glad Nightbird wasn’t on the album. Whole Lotta Trouble is questionable for me, but I appreciate she probably wanted two songs from OSOTM.

[Macfan4life]

Pat Benatar was accepted into the RRHOF this year, so she’s not excluded. She will be inducted in November.

I think Beauty and the Beast deserves to be on Stevie’s greatest hits album. I like After the Glitter Fades, but B&B is quintessential Stevie and more representative of her as a whole, I think. I’m just glad Nightbird wasn’t on the album. Whole Lotta Trouble is questionable for me, but I appreciate she probably wanted two songs from OSOTM.
After The Glitter Fades was a song in the top 40. Beauty and the Beast is just Stevie's preference. I get it.
The most annoying part was leaving Think About Me off the Greatest hits album. Its so short so don't tell me there was no room. Just edit Sara down another 3 minutes :lol:

It would have given the album a Christine Tusk song and would have made millions rediscover the song.

[Villavic]

The most annoying part was leaving Think About Me off the Greatest hits album.

It is not in The Very Best of UK 2002 release either. Though it is in the US release.

[bwboy]

The most annoying part was leaving Think About Me off the Greatest hits album. Its so short so don't tell me there was no room. Just edit Sara down another 3 minutes :lol:

It would have given the album a Christine Tusk song and would have made millions rediscover the song.

As I recall, the vinyl Greatest Hits was short 2, maybe even 3 songs that were on the CD, so there really wasn’t room for Think About Me. But I agree, the exposure would have helped Think About Me.

Does anyone remember what songs were on the CD that weren’t on the vinyl? I want to say Big Love, Hold Me, and You Make Loving Fun, but I can’t remember.

[Macfan4life]

In this interview, Stevie tells how she hates Greatest Hits albums and refused to go along with idea and refused to call it "Greatest Hits." She got to add new songs and pick the songs she wanted to include besides some of the greatest hits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xlKhkqZT2E

Talks about Edge walk with fans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlwQ24Tvx9Y

why she refuses to read Mick's book and called BTM tour a book promo tour and talks about her argument with Mick and she refuses to talk to him or tour with him. Also not happy with the way this interview ends (last few seconds)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39V53oCZ_c

[jmn3]

So I’ll never understand that whole Silver Springs fight with Mick which she goes into in that interview. Why didn’t she just re-record it for Timespace? Why would she want the Fleetwood Mac version on her solo compilation? There were no other Mac songs included. She always seems so over the top regarding this during this era.

[bwboy]

So I’ll never understand that whole Silver Springs fight with Mick which she goes into in that interview. Why didn’t she just re-record it for Timespace? Why would she want the Fleetwood Mac version on her solo compilation? There were no other Mac songs included. She always seems so over the top regarding this during this era.

I think Stevie is very passionate about her songs, certainly more so than Christine, and maybe even Lindsey, who knows? But my point is, that recorded version of Silver Springs by FM is very personal to her. It’s not just the words, but also the music and the performance, both of which would be different if she had re-recorded it. So yes, she could have recorded it again, and it might have turned out fine or even great, but she wanted the original because of how much it meant to her. Doesn’t mean she’s right, but I can see her POV.

[greendaze5]

So I’ll never understand that whole Silver Springs fight with Mick which she goes into in that interview. Why didn’t she just re-record it for Timespace? Why would she want the Fleetwood Mac version on her solo compilation? There were no other Mac songs included. She always seems so over the top regarding this during this era.

I think at one point Stevie did consider recording a new version, though it never happened.

Stevie said that she wanted the original FM version as because the band had demoted it to a B side back in 1976, she figured Mick wouldn't mind giving it back to her (actually he did as he wanted it for 'The Chain' box set in which he had a $$ stake).

Also, Stevie had assigned royalties for 'Silver Springs' to her mother Barbara, so she wanted the song to go out on 'TimeSpace'. But since it eventually wound up on the FM box set, Barbara would've gotten her royalties anyways.

[Macfan4life]

Everything happens for a reason. The Dance and Silver Springs was incredible for the band. However, pretending we are living in 1990/1991, Mick was so freaking greedy. He knew with Lindsey gone album sales were down and now Chris and Stevie not touring that he needed every penny. It was stupid of Mick to fight over a B side song that he threw of Rumours. The writer kept your band afloat for 2 tours. Mick was milking everything out of 1990 because he knew the big bucks were about to come to a halt. Stevie even was frustrated at the length of the BTM tour. He kept adding all these European dates and Stevie while frustrated kept going. Stevie's mom did not need the royalties but it was the principle. Mick being a d**k as usual when it comes to nickels and dimes. He would have sold Biddy's undies on Ebay if it existed back then.

[Villavic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39V53oCZ_c

Is Silver Springs her mother's song?? Or did I hear wrong? Did Mick mess with her family? What's her family have to do with Silver Springs? :confused: Or did I misunderstand everything?

Edit: Oh I didn't read last page and now I just read greendaze5. Now it makes sense.

[HomerMcvie]

He would have sold Biddy's undies on Ebay if it existed back then.

HEY NOW, I have to draw the line at you STEALING my shtick!

Mick selling Biddy's undies is mine, and I filed a copyright. You'll be hearing from my attorneys!!! Dewey, Beatem, and Howe.:mad:

[ricohv]

That TimeSpace interview with the purple headband is so weird (but interesting!) Wasn't that recorded for MTV or VH1? And does anyone know if it ever aired? Did anyone see it anywhere before the days of Youtube?

[HomerMcvie]

Is Silver Springs her mother's song?? Or did I hear wrong? Did Mick mess with her family? What's her family have to do with Silver Springs? :confused: Or did I misunderstand everything?

Edit: Oh I didn't read last page and now I just read greendaze5. Now it makes sense.

Yeah, Goat gifted her Nanny the royalties from SS.

[Macfan4life]

I totally get Stevie on why she wanted to do this. Fleetwood Mac was pretty much over (at least everyone thought). They went on without Lindsey and it was not that successful. Chris had just bought a house (we heard that before) and was fixing it and wanted no more touring. Stevie always saw this gem not getting its fair shake. It was the perfect opportunity to finally put it on an album...her "favorite" songs. She wanted the world to hear it. She was probably still bitter over it too. You realize the little bit of money we are talking about here. Didn't Stand Back make the CD of the Chain 25 Years of Fleetwood Mac. I realize it was a live performance so the band would own it but good grief Mick was a horrendous person. He's selling live versions of her solo songs. You just cant make this up. He is a scoundrel of the lowest level.
Connect the dots. Mick was this cheap over a B side song that Stevie wrote. In just a few years Bob Welch wanted a few royalties too. If Mick would not bend for Stevie, he surely wasn't going to give Bob a dime either.
Pathetic

Yes I am glad Silver Springs was saved for the Dance because I know some will chime in and say that. I am speaking as if you took a time machine back to 1990. No one would have thought Lindsey was coming back and there would be a reunion.

[blinker12]

…Though if SS had been included on Timespace, I don’t know that it would have diminished the song’s impact on The Dance (unless it were released as a single from Timespace, maybe). The spectacle of the live performance, Stevie shouting at Lindsey at the end, was a big part of what sold that version of the song IMO. I kinda remember it being played as a stand-alone video on VH1 and maybe even MTV back then.

[Macfan4life]

…Though if SS had been included on Timespace, I don’t know that it would have diminished the song’s impact on The Dance (unless it were released as a single from Timespace, maybe). The spectacle of the live performance, Stevie shouting at Lindsey at the end, was a big part of what sold that version of the song IMO. I kinda remember it being played as a stand-alone video on VH1 and maybe even MTV back then.
True. Great point. I think it also is a false choice otherwise. Timespace was not hugely popular and no songs got big airplay. Chances are the song would have been lost again. However it would have made Stevie happy to finally put it on an album.
The Dance would have reignited the interest regardless.

[Villavic]

True. Great point. I think it also is a false choice otherwise. Timespace was not hugely popular and no songs got big airplay. Chances are the song would have been lost again. However it would have made Stevie happy to finally put it on an album.
The Dance would have reignited the interest regardless.

But with SS in Timespace maybe a butterfly effect would have happened. Maybe there would not have been a Time lineup and album. Maybe another BTM lineup and album again (with or without Rick), with a tour (probably without Christine), so maybe there would not have been a Rumours lineup reunion (and Dance album), at least in 1997. Who knows.

[Macfan4life]

But with SS in Timespace maybe a butterfly effect would have happened. Maybe there would not have been a Time lineup and album. Maybe another BTM lineup and album again (with or without Rick), with a tour (probably without Christine), so maybe there would not have been a Rumours lineup reunion (and Dance album), at least in 1997. Who knows.
IMHO Stevie was being humble and saying words to hurt Mick during that interview (ha ha look what you lost). She knew she filled those seats. Before the Farwell tour was over in 1990 BOTH Chris and Stevie announced they would no longer tour with the band. Both had one foot out of the band. No way Jose that Stevie would have toured with that mash up of Fleetwood Mac members during that time. Stevie's management told her to quit the band when Lindsey left. She was the team player and played on. But after BTM and Chris mostly departing I see Stevie's words as a farce. Which is why she wanted Silver Springs. She knew or at least thought at the time the Mac was pretty much done so give me what is mine.
At that point, Fleetwood Mac was like a forest fire. It needed to burn to the ground completely before new growth could start again many years later.

[SteveMacD]

The best part of the “Silver Springs” story is that it’s all BS.

Warner, not Mick, had the rights to release the song. Songs only go back to the artist if the song goes out of print for ten years. Warner reissued the song in 1988 or so as part of a Back-to-Back series of 45s. Mick couldn’t just let Stevie use the song even if he had wanted to.

[UnwindedDreams]

The best part of the “Silver Springs” story is that it’s all BS.

Warner, not Mick, had the rights to release the song. Songs only go back to the artist if the song goes out of print for ten years. Warner reissued the song in 1988 or so as part of a Back-to-Back series of 45s. Mick couldn’t just let Stevie use the song even if he had wanted to.
Fascinating. Thank you.

It seems Mick had to be the fall guy though because she didn't get what she wanted.

I watched that interview Macfan4life shared where she talks about messing with her family and boy she sounds like the head of Cosa Nostra!

[SteveMacD]

It seems Mick had to be the fall guy though because she didn't get what she wanted.

Mick is always the fall guy and also the first one they all run back to.

[bwboy]

The best part of the “Silver Springs” story is that it’s all BS.

Warner, not Mick, had the rights to release the song. Songs only go back to the artist if the song goes out of print for ten years. Warner reissued the song in 1988 or so as part of a Back-to-Back series of 45s. Mick couldn’t just let Stevie use the song even if he had wanted to.

You may be right, generally, but unless you’re privy to the inner workings of the band and that particular issue, there’s no way any of us could know that for certain. And my bet would be you’re wrong about Silver Springs.

[UnwindedDreams]

Mick is always the fall guy and also the first one they all run back to.

Accurate. John doesn't seem to even have a ring to kiss

[SteveMacD]

You may be right, generally, but unless you’re privy to the inner workings of the band and that particular issue, there’s no way any of us could know that for certain. And my bet would be you’re wrong about Silver Springs.

Except I used to work for an artist who was on two major indie labels (Matador and Merge). He reissues all of the albums, or even parts of albums, where the rights have gone back to him specifically to regain those rights. I’m not just talking out of my ass on this.

The GYOW/SS 45 was probably in print until 1978, given the massive popularity of GYOW. Then, it was reissued on a Back-To-Back Hits 45 w/ Don’t Stop in 1988. It was next reissued in late 1992 on the box, and then in 2002 on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac, and in 2013 with the Rumours Expanded Edition.

ETA: Just Googled “Fleetwood Mac don’t Stop silver springs back to back hits 45” and it was actually released in 1987. So, it’s never been out of print for ten years since it was released. Again, it was totally BS.

[UnwindedDreams]

The GYOW/SS 45 was probably in print until 1978, given the massive popularity of GYOW. Then, it was reissued on a Back-To-Back Hits 45 w/ Don’t Stop in 1988. It was next reissued in late 1992 on the box, and then in 2002 on the Very Best of Fleetwood Mac, and in 2013 with the Rumours Expanded Edition.
There was a Roumours in 04 too.

Stevie finally got it on a solo compilation in 2007. Her The Very Best Of.

[jmn3]

If it was such an important thing for her that she felt the need for the world to hear, why didn’t she insert it into one of the set lists for the umpteen tours she had been doing? Why not push Fleetwood Mac to play it in ‘87 or ‘90? Or the 5 solo tours? I understand the specialness of the original recording and her mother having the rights bla bla, but why was she letting this Uber important baby of hers sit in the shelf collecting dust for nearly 15 years before she made it a debacle over Timespace - an album that included exactly 0 of her Fleetwood Mac songs.

It does all seem to have been BS but it worked out well when it did resurface finally in 1997.

But in an alternative reality…please allow yourselves to consider the dumpster fire that would’ve been a Rock a Little era version of Silver Springs…

[Macfan4life]

If it was such an important thing for her that she felt the need for the world to hear, why didn’t she insert it into one of the set lists for the umpteen tours she had been doing? Why not push Fleetwood Mac to play it in ‘87 or ‘90? Or the 5 solo tours? I understand the specialness of the original recording and her mother having the rights bla bla, but why was she letting this Uber important baby of hers sit in the shelf collecting dust for nearly 15 years before she made it a debacle over Timespace - an album that included exactly 0 of her Fleetwood Mac songs.

It does all seem to have been BS but it worked out well when it did resurface finally in 1997.

But in an alternative reality…please allow yourselves to consider the dumpster fire that would’ve been a Rock a Little era version of Silver Springs…
She has said, she will only do it with Lindsey on stage. This is why she does not do it solo either. I dont see her singing it to Billy Burnette on stage (1987-1990). With Lindsey back and the whole band back in 1997 it was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the song to the world.
I dont see what the fuss is. There clearly was an issue for Mick not to release the song to solo Stevie otherwise she would have slapped the song on Timespace.
Mick is one cheap bastard. Stand Back is on Fleetwood Mac's The Chain (25 years) released almost the same time as Timespace yet she cant have Silver Springs? Mick was bitter and cheap. I think the issue was Stevie wanted the original recording. She probably could have re-recorded it but wanted that Fleetwood Mac magic from Rumours on her album. At that point Fleetwood Mac was done and it would have made no difference to let Stevie have the song. After Stevie remaining loyal and doing those 2 tours to get Mick on his feet again, Mick was being petty.

[SteveMacD]

She has said, she will only do it with Lindsey on stage. This is why she does not do it solo either. I dont see her singing it to Billy Burnette on stage (1987-1990). With Lindsey back and the whole band back in 1997 it was the perfect opportunity to reintroduce the song to the world.
I dont see what the fuss is. There clearly was an issue for Mick not to release the song to solo Stevie otherwise she would have slapped the song on Timespace.
Mick is one cheap bastard. Stand Back is on Fleetwood Mac's The Chain (25 years) released almost the same time as Timespace yet she cant have Silver Springs? Mick was bitter and cheap. I think the issue was Stevie wanted the original recording. She probably could have re-recorded it but wanted that Fleetwood Mac magic from Rumours on her album. At that point Fleetwood Mac was done and it would have made no difference to let Stevie have the song. After Stevie remaining loyal and doing those 2 tours to get Mick on his feet again, Mick was being petty.
Again, Mick didn’t have the authority to let her use the Fleetwood Mac version.

[Villavic]

This is something I wanted to ask but always forgot.
What exactly is Gentoo Music, Inc. ? Who owns it? And what exactly controls?

The Rumours booklet says:
All selections published and controlled by Gentoo Music, Inc. (BMI
Tracks 1, 3 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music.
Tracks 2, 9 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music.
Track 4: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 5: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music
Track 6: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 7: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc., Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music.
Tracks 8, 10: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 11: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music

Easy to find out Lindsey's and Stevie's. Christine's songs are controlled just by Gentoo Music, there's no second entity. So I asume Silver Springs, like Dreams, is controlled by by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. But what exactly do these entities control?
Does this has to do with the SS issue with Timespace?

PS: Couldn't find my old white cd album booklet, but I'm almost sure it just mentions Gentoo Music Inc. It seems Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music didn't exist yet.

[SteveMacD]

This is something I wanted to ask but always forgot.
What exactly is Gentoo Music, Inc. ? Who owns it? And what exactly controls?

The Rumours booklet says:
All selections published and controlled by Gentoo Music, Inc. (BMI
Tracks 1, 3 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music.
Tracks 2, 9 © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music.
Track 4: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 5: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Now Sounds Music
Track 6: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 7: © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc., Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music.
Tracks 8, 10: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc.
Track 11: © copyright 1976 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. Under U.C.C. © copyright 1977 by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music

Easy to find out Lindsey's and Stevie's. Christine's songs are controlled just by Gentoo Music, there's no second entity. So I asume Silver Springs, like Dreams, is controlled by by Gentoo Music, Inc. and Welsh Witch Music. But what exactly do these entities control?
Does this has to do with the SS issue with Timespace?

PS: Couldn't find my old white cd album booklet, but I'm almost sure it just mentions Gentoo Music Inc. It seems Now Sounds Music and Welsh Witch Music didn't exist yet.

Fleetwood Mac’s publishing company from when Mick and John were managing the band. Gentoo is a breed of penguin.

[Macfan4life]

Again, Mick didn’t have the authority to let her use the Fleetwood Mac version.
Unless you were in the management of the band you don't know why according to Stevie that Mick blocked giving Silver Springs to Stevie. Was it something that Mick could control? Based on what Stevie has said, I would say yes.
You think its a made up story? You don't think Stevie wanted Silver Springs on Timespace and was only saying that?

[SteveMacD]

Unless you were in the management of the band you don't know why according to Stevie that Mick blocked giving Silver Springs to Stevie. Was it something that Mick could control? Based on what Stevie has said, I would say yes.
You think its a made up story? You don't think Stevie wanted Silver Springs on Timespace and was only saying that?

Because, as I said earlier, having worked with someone who was on several labels, the label owns the rights to release the recorded works, unless those works go out of print for over ten years. “Silver Springs” was never out of print for more than ten years.

As for why she made that story up, my speculation is that her management felt Fleetwood Mac was beginning to hurt her brand and she made this up to give a public justification for quitting. She might have asked Mick to intervene with the label and he wouldn’t, but the label already had plans for it anyway. They would have told him no, too.

[bwboy]

I really have a hard time believing that Stevie made up the story about Silver Springs as an excuse to leave FM. She could have said she was mad at Mick because of his book, or that she was focused on her solo career, or tired of doing both. Now, maybe she assumed Mick could have convinced the record label to let her put the song on her CD, and he didn’t even try, that sounds feasible. But no, I don’t think she concocted the story to save face about why she left FM. If anything, that reason makes her look a little petty. Plus, it is totally believable (to me, anyway) that Stevie would get mad over something like that.

The story of Mick not letting Stevie put Silver Springs on her album has always confused me, because it didn’t really make sense how Mick could have been the one who kept her from using if. But so has the story about why Buckingham Nicks has never been rereleased. At various times, Lindsey supposedly refused, then other times Stevie supposedly refused. Who knows the real reasons for both?

[Macfan4life]

I really have a hard time believing that Stevie made up the story about Silver Springs as an excuse to leave FM. She could have said she was mad at Mick because of his book, or that she was focused on her solo career, or tired of doing both. Now, maybe she assumed Mick could have convinced the record label to let her put the song on her CD, and he didn’t even try, that sounds feasible. But no, I don’t think she concocted the story to save face about why she left FM. If anything, that reason makes her look a little petty. Plus, it is totally believable (to me, anyway) that Stevie would get mad over something like that.

The story of Mick not letting Stevie put Silver Springs on her album has always confused me, because it didn’t really make sense how Mick could have been the one who kept her from using if. But so has the story about why Buckingham Nicks has never been rereleased. At various times, Lindsey supposedly refused, then other times Stevie supposedly refused. Who knows the real reasons for both?
Who knows. But IMHO clearly Mick had the power to release the song to her. There is another Timespace interview that alleges he was avoiding her and had to call Dennis to get him to call her back. When she asked him for the song, he said no.
None of us are aware of the intricate details of such a move. However Stevie was a veteran rock star at that time and knew how the system worked and what she needed to do to accomplish her task. I do think she could have recorded the song her way just like she did with Crystal in 1998. But I think she knew she could never duplicate that magic and wanted the original.
Each band is different the way rights are owned, etc. Unless you were part of Fleetwood Mac, I don't think anyone knows exactly.

[SteveMacD]

Who knows. But IMHO clearly Mick had the power to release the song to her. There is another Timespace interview that alleges he was avoiding her and had to call Dennis to get him to call her back. When she asked him for the song, he said no.
None of us are aware of the intricate details of such a move. However Stevie was a veteran rock star at that time and knew how the system worked and what she needed to do to accomplish her task. I do think she could have recorded the song her way just like she did with Crystal in 1998. But I think she knew she could never duplicate that magic and wanted the original.
Each band is different the way rights are owned, etc. Unless you were part of Fleetwood Mac, I don't think anyone knows exactly.

I know enough from having a friend who's an indie rock legend who has been directly impacted by this about how labels work. Works only go back to the artist if they've been out of print for ten years (OR if the artist can somehow buy them back). When my friend signed to SCAT Records in the '90s, SCAT offered to release all of GbV's first five albums that were self-financed and released only locally. One of the albums in particular became one of his top albums. Now, he can't get those works back and has minimal input on how they're released.

"Silver Springs" has never gone out of print for more than ten years. Again, Mick couldn't have done anything when Warner still owned the rights to release the song. It wasn't something he could release to her.

Now, maybe she wanted the track tapes from an unreleased take. Mick might have been able to give her something like that. However, looking at what happened between Dave Mason and Blue Thumb Records, even that's not entirely clear if Mick could have done that or if the label owned the track tapes.

[David]

Again, Mick couldn't have done anything when Warner still owned the rights to release the song. It wasn't something he could release to her.

All right, already, I believe you. But don’t you think it’s weird that Stevie pilloried Mick over it? I wouldn’t expect Stevie herself to know the legal ins and outs, but all those sycophants around her surely must have told her that Mick was powerless to give her what she wanted. Did no one tell her in 1991 that she was barking up the wrong tree?

Personally, I find the idea of the track on Timespace absolutely revolting. Imagine “Silver Springs” on an album with dreck like “Sometimes It’s a Bitch” or “Love’s a Hard Game to Play”! Ne’er the twain shall meet, Stevie — don’t even think about it.

[Villavic]

What if Mick had influences at Warner Records and convinced them not to give the song to Stevie? Again he would be the villain. Of course, for that he should have had close friends in the company. Because power arguments (such as offering a new FM album) I don't see as convincing in 1991.

[SteveMacD]

All right, already, I believe you. But don’t you think it’s weird that Stevie pilloried Mick over it? I wouldn’t expect Stevie herself to know the legal ins and outs, but all those sycophants around her surely must have told her that Mick was powerless to give her what she wanted. Did no one tell her in 1991 that she was barking up the wrong tree?

I don’t know.

It’s amusing how Stevie’s a liar about Lindsey’s firing but has impeccable honesty about “Silver Springs.” I think she knew, but this gave her an easy out of Fleetwood Mac.

[Macfan4life]

I don’t know.

It’s amusing how Stevie’s a liar about Lindsey’s firing but has impeccable honesty about “Silver Springs.” I think she knew, but this gave her an easy out of Fleetwood Mac.
Totally different eras. Stevie was bluntly honest during the klonopin era. That stuff is like truth serum. She opened up about so much. The super ego Stevie happened much later when she started embellishing the truth.
Use some statement analysis. If Mick had no power to release Silver Springs to her, dont you think he would have publicly said so? Especially after all she said about him?

No more questions your honor.
I rest my case ;)

[Jondalar]

I was upset when she released TimeSpace. I thought she should of included Nightbird and After the Glitter Fades on it instead of the horrible Desert Angel or Loves a Hard to Play. Those songs were actual Top 40 hits and without them, it really wasn't a Best of album. Whole Lotta Trouble was also not worthy.

[jbrownsjr]

I don’t know.

It’s amusing how Stevie’s a liar about Lindsey’s firing but has impeccable honesty about “Silver Springs.” I think she knew, but this gave her an easy out of Fleetwood Mac.

I'm with you on this one. She was not the brightest bulb in any era. He probably explained it to her and she didn't believe him.

[UnwindedDreams]

Use some statement analysis. If Mick had no power to release Silver Springs to her, dont you think he would have publicly said so? Especially after all she said about him?

It's tough to say because he may have thought correcting her in public might have burnt a bridge with her. She might not have ever returned in 97 if he had corrected the record.

But I see your point because in 2012, he did in fact say publicly that Stevie wouldn't agree to do an FM tour in 2012, and even said she'd make more money on an FM tour than on her solo tour, which I thought was rude of him to say.

But she sure speaks with bloodthirst towards Mick in that fourth TimeSpace interview video. Thank you for sharing.

[vivfox]

I was upset when she released TimeSpace. I thought she should of included Nightbird and After the Glitter Fades on it instead of the horrible Loves a Hard to Play. Those songs were actual Top 40 hits and without them, it really wasn't a Best of album. Whole Lotta Trouble was also not worthy.

She never said it was a Best OF album. She always told the press it was HER favorite songs. And we know that is not even true because she hated Sometimes It's a Beach.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm with you on this one. She was not the brightest bulb in any era. He probably explained it to her and she didn't believe him.

$he and Mick are both pathological liars. Or just plain stupid.

[Macfan4life]

$he and Mick are both pathological liars. Or just plain stupid.
True but Mick is also a cheap bastard. Look what he did to Bob Welch over peanuts. In Mick's first book he tells a story of him being on the phone with Stevie about something and she confronted him how little he was paying the assistants. He admitted Stevie yelled at him and called him a cheap bastard, hung up the phone, and then doubled their salary.
Mick will screw over anyone for 5 cents.

[Villavic]

She never said it was a Best OF album. She always told the press it was HER favorite songs. And we know that is not even true because she hated Sometimes It's a Beach.

And the album cover says Best of. Contrary to boxsets that may include hits, alternate versions, etc.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Timespace_%E2%80%93_The_Best_of_Stevie_Nicks.jpg

[Macfan4life]

I suppose do you think that Mick is more of a cheapskate than Stevie is a liar or vice versa? I believe Mick was a bigger cheapskate in 1990 than Stevie was a liar back then :lol:

[Villavic]

True but Mick is also a cheap bastard. Look what he did to Bob Welch over peanuts. In Mick's first book he tells a story of him being on the phone with Stevie about something and she confronted him how little he was paying the assistants. He admitted Stevie yelled at him and called him a cheap bastard, hung up the phone, and then doubled their salary.
Mick will screw over anyone for 5 cents.

You mean this (circa january 1980)? I only found this paragraph, but it's about a letter, not a phone call:
She also wrote that she had started work on her first solo album. "Recording has begun, and Rhiannon is afoot." Then she told me she had moved to a small house by the beach and that I was a cheap bastard, so she was sending the girls in our office an extra $250. Stevie signed the note "Katherine DeLongpre," one of her many pseudonyms of the period.

Couldn't find more details, maybe it was in his second book?

[Macfan4life]

You mean this (circa january 1980)? I only found this paragraph, but it's about a letter, not a phone call:
She also wrote that she had started work on her first solo album. "Recording has begun, and Rhiannon is afoot." Then she told me she had moved to a small house by the beach and that I was a cheap bastard, so she was sending the girls in our office an extra $250. Stevie signed the note "Katherine DeLongpre," one of her many pseudonyms of the period.

Couldn't find more details, maybe it was in his second book?
I'm sorry :( Whip me with a wet noodle.
I read the book over 30 years ago. It was a letter not a phone call.
Good memory had the cheap bastard part right ;)

[SteveMacD]

True but Mick is also a cheap bastard. Look what he did to Bob Welch over peanuts. In Mick's first book he tells a story of him being on the phone with Stevie about something and she confronted him how little he was paying the assistants. He admitted Stevie yelled at him and called him a cheap bastard, hung up the phone, and then doubled their salary.
Mick will screw over anyone for 5 cents.

I’m confused. Was Mick too cheap to let Stevie have an obscure B-Side or was he too cheap to publicly correct her about the fact he couldn’t out of fear of alienating her while she publicly drank prune juice at his expense? Because those things don’t exist simultaneously.

FWIW, he did say that what Stevie was saying to the press wasn’t entirely accurate (maybe when the Zoo did Rockline).

[SpyNote]

All right, already, I believe you. But donÂ’t you think itÂ’s weird that Stevie pilloried Mick over it? I wouldnÂ’t expect Stevie herself to know the legal ins and outs, but all those sycophants around her surely must have told her that Mick was powerless to give her what she wanted. Did no one tell her in 1991 that she was barking up the wrong tree?

That's the plot hole for me too. Why slam Mick and go as far as saying he messed with her family if there were no possible way of him releasing the recording to her?

No doubt the label has full control over the master recording, but you'd imagine Mick had clout with the label, who, in all likelihood, were good friends with him being in the Warner family for almost 20 years at that point. It just seemed like Mick had his eye on 25 Years and wanted to get the full benefit of "Silver Springs" for that release. Ultimately, I think Mick's book, laying bare the band's secrets, was the impetus for Stevie concocting the Silver Springs/Timespace idea.

I found this interesting article (https://conventuslaw.com/report/ownership-of-master-recordings-in-the-music/) from a law firm on ownership of master recordings. It references Taylor Swift's recent battle to reclaim her master recordings. This part caught my eye: "In 1978, the U.S. Congress passed Section 203 of the U.S. Copyright Act, which allows artists to reclaim the rights to their master recordings after 35 years."

[SpyNote]

Speaking of the label...

Longtime Warner exec Mo Ostin died at the age of 95(!).
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2022-08-02/mo-ostin-warner-bros-appreciation

“I have a crystal-clear memory of Fleetwood Mac walking in the front door of the Warner Bros. offices in 1975 and I can honestly say that my world changed instantly,” singer Stevie Nicks said. “Mo was loving and nurturing and had excellent musical taste, with boundless ideas and vision. He listened to artists and always put them first.”

“I looked to him as a friend first, who helped guide me and Fleetwood Mac into a place where we, like many others, were free to develop our music and have our creative needs met with wisdom and open arms,” added drummer Mick Fleetwood.

Reading their comments makes me think that if either Mick or Stevie wanted to access "Silver Springs" for some purpose, it would have been possible.

[Jondalar]

She never said it was a Best OF album. She always told the press it was HER favorite songs. And we know that is not even true because she hated Sometimes It's a Beach.

The album cover says "Best of", so she did say it. You don't put filler songs on a Best of and Desert Angel is an embarrassment.

[petep9000]

The Timespace era was full of dull and listless performances. I don’t know what shows you all went to but at Jones Beach she might as well
have been sleeping up there. She was fat, her costumes were hideous, hee hair was a fright, and vocally she was miserable.

Her 1994 Street Angel tour, although derided by some fans and not well attended, featured a return to strong passionate vocals, and the band was quite good too.

[Macfan4life]

The Timespace era was full of dull and listless performances. I don’t know what shows you all went to but at Jones Beach she might as well
have been sleeping up there. She was fat, her costumes were hideous, hee hair was a fright, and vocally she was miserable.

Her 1994 Street Angel tour, although derided by some fans and not well attended, featured a return to strong passionate vocals, and the band was quite good too.
I think most would agree with what you say. I was trying to be positive and finding the few positive aspects of the era. The Timespace tour was like OSOTM tour. Some nights lifeless while others fairly good. I saw a zombie performance in 1989 and 1990 with the Mac. But in 1991 I saw a really good show. I just wish it has been longer since her setlist was really short back then.

[vivfox]

But in 1991 I saw a really good show. I just wish it has been longer since her setlist was really short back then

We were lucky to get 11 songs out of her in those days. That was the one tour I missed because I was living in Phoenix at the time and it was the only tour she didn't play her hometown.

[David]

The Timespace era was full of dull and listless performances. I don’t know what shows you all went to but at Jones Beach she might as well have been sleeping up there. She was fat, her costumes were hideous, her hair was a fright, and vocally she was miserable.
I saw the gig at Concord Pavilion (where, two years earlier, she had canceled on the night of the earthquake) and had tickets for Mountain View. Concord was so disappointing that, on the drive to Mountain View a few nights later, I literally turned the car around and headed to a steakhouse for dinner. My companions, who had seen the Concord show with me, were all keener to go out for steak than see Nicks again. We were appalled by the shlocky band, the vulgarity, and the bad singing. I put my unused ticket in my scrapbook, but I think we offered our tickets to strangers at the restaurant. They said no thanks.

The only thing I got even a little excited about at Concord was that she pulled “If Anyone Falls” out of mothballs.

A few years later, on all those radio spots, Stevie was cute and funny again — and she hired musicians to reckon with: Russ Kunkel, Rick Vito, Sara Fleetwood, Dan Garfield. Everything was back on track.

[BombaySapphire3]

I caught one show at Irvine Meadows and while not terrible it was definitely a low point. I'm thinking I may have seen another one at the Greek anyone remember if she played there for that tour? She was much better on the Street Angel tour but popularitywise even more in the crapper.

[Macfan4life]

I guess I am in the minority because I loved her Timespace band and it rocked. First tour with 2 guitarists and I love the way Les plays. Vocally I thought she was fine. Although she was not in the best shape in her life. IMHO still the best solo versions of Rhiannon and Landslide. Doing Landslide electric was cool and taking it to another level than the Mac acoustic version.
I mean come on. Edge of 17 with explosions. What's not to love ;)