All Over Again

[dougl]

https://youtu.be/Vf5ZUPYTrUI

Sweet dedication to George Hawkins and his family

[Macfan4life]

Thanks for posting. This little tid bit was not reported but its nice to see Chris finally acknowledge someone from the stage.
George was so close to the band especially Mick, Chris and Lindsey. He played on Mick's solo albums, Christine solo albums and Lindsey's Law and Order.
This is another Loggins/Messina friendship that endured. When the Mac toured with them, they made lasting friendships. Stevie recorded with Kenny. Sara Fleetwood was originally the wife of Loggins/Messina road manager and became Stevie's best friend before she was Mick's wife. Chris also wrote Love In Store with Sara's original husband. George was also the bass player with Loggins/Messina. This tour had lasting impacts on the band. George also had a great voice and I am glad I got to see him tour with Chris.

[vivfox]

Sara Fleetwood was originally the wife of Loggins/Messina road manager and became Stevie's best friend before she was Mick's wife.

Was his name Jim Recor?

[jbrownsjr]

Was his name Jim Recor?

Yes. Jim Recor. It was Sara Recor (for a while).

[jbrownsjr]

https://youtu.be/MK6Pc-t33FI

Sweet dedication to George Hawkins and his family

That's very sweet. And both Stevie and Christine look so good. Wowsers..

[bombaysaffires]

Highlights some of the missed opportunities in this band... there was never any sort of Stevie/Christine collaboration (not necessarily songwriting, but singing, either on record or onstage) like there was between LB and Chris. Onstage there was always focus on the S & L relationship, and them playing off each other, and to some extent moments onstage between Lindsey and Chris (he'd have to go over to her keyboards for that during a song, or be onstage with her playing acoustic while she did Songbird) but never that kind of onstage highlight of the two women.

[jbrownsjr]

Highlights some of the missed opportunities in this band... there was never any sort of Stevie/Christine collaboration (not necessarily songwriting, but singing, either on record or onstage) like there was between LB and Chris. Onstage there was always focus on the S & L relationship, and them playing off each other, and to some extent moments onstage between Lindsey and Chris (he'd have to go over to her keyboards for that during a song, or be onstage with her playing acoustic while she did Songbird) but never that kind of onstage highlight of the two women.

I've never understood that missed opportunity. You can see there's a powerful artistic bond there.

[Macfan4life]

I've never understood that missed opportunity. You can see there's a powerful artistic bond there.
True but I can see how it did not happen. Women were still struggling to be treated equally as rockers in the 70s. It would have been considered "cute" for the 2 women to have a song together. Then super stardom hit. They only gave Stevie 3 songs and I doubt she wanted to share that small space with someone else. Post Bella Donna, the others did not want to look like they were using Stevie's limelight to make their song a success. Stevie never had a lead single off any Mac album. And she was only given 1 lead song off the double album Tusk (Angel). You could tell the band went to great lengths to not showcase her as a focal point of the band even though it happened anyway. Post Bella Donna it was never going to happen. Now during BTM era, it should have happened, but Stevie was so drugged out of it, its probably a good thing it never happened. Looking back, yes its probably a missed opportunity. But as the years rolled along, I can see why it never happened. Stevie even barely was in the studio for Tango let alone a joint venture with Chris. The band also edited out or way turned down her back up vocals on many Mac songs. Coincidence? I think not. Stevie was on the original Hold Me demo. It sounds great with only Chris and Lindsey but the Mac did not want Stevie's super stardom to rain on their parade.

[jbrownsjr]

True but I can see how it did not happen. Women were still struggling to be treated equally as rockers in the 70s. It would have been considered "cute" for the 2 women to have a song together. Then super stardom hit. They only gave Stevie 3 songs and I doubt she wanted to share that small space with someone else. Post Bella Donna, the others did not want to look like they were using Stevie's limelight to make their song a success. Stevie never had a lead single off any Mac album. And she was only given 1 lead song off the double album Tusk (Angel). You could tell the band went to great lengths to not showcase her as a focal point of the band even though it happened anyway. Post Bella Donna it was never going to happen. Now during BTM era, it should have happened, but Stevie was so drugged out of it, its probably a good thing it never happened. Looking back, yes its probably a missed opportunity. But as the years rolled along, I can see why it never happened. Stevie even barely was in the studio for Tango let alone a joint venture with Chris. The band also edited out or way turned down her back up vocals on many Mac songs. Coincidence? I think not. Stevie was on the original Hold Me demo. It sounds great with only Chris and Lindsey but the Mac did not want Stevie's super stardom to rain on their parade.

Ok Stevie on Hold Me is just awful. Like "what are you doing??" awful. I'm so glad they edited that howling or whatever she was trying to do, 'out'.

So thinking of when they have been featured together. I believe Christine and Stevie came out and did Has Anyone Ever Written... with Christine accompanying her. Mick announced it as the ladies. I think that was Shakin the Cage tour. 1987/88 and they also did an awards show together around that time. And then the famous Happy Birthday Warrrrrner Bros.

Why they edited Stevie's lead vocal out of Oh Daddy is a Mystery To Me. Stevie sounds so good on that. They also do their little Rhiannon Intro (Dance). AND, they sing to each other on Rhiannon. ..."she rings like a bell.."

But video wise she was absolutely featured. Stevie had the two of first three videos. Sara (live) and Gypsy. Then they gave Christine's Hold me which features 5 of them. Later she got Seven Wonders and that's after Stop Draggin, and Stand Back If Anyone Falls.


I get what you're saying about the band not featuring her. But, I believe her own devices caused her "not to be featured a bit more than the band worrying about her superstar status. Otherwise the videos would be Big Love, Little Lies and Mystified. :laugh:

I try to imagine if she actually went in there with written tunes like she did for SYW and hung out more... I don't think the band would have had much choice if the material was good. (and the vocals too). Some of those Tango demos are just awful.

But having said all that, they've literally had her center stage since 1975. So kind of featured over the last 47 years or so. And for me personally, I used to like when she sat out ISA and NTF.

[Macfan4life]

Ok Stevie on Hold Me is just awful. Like "what are you doing??" awful. I'm so glad they edited that howling or whatever she was trying to do, 'out'.

So thinking of when they have been featured together. I believe Christine and Stevie came out and did Has Anyone Ever Written... with Christine accompanying her. Mick announced it as the ladies. I think that was Shakin the Cage tour. 1987/88 and they also did an awards show together around that time. And then the famous Happy Birthday Warrrrrner Bros.

Why they edited Stevie's lead vocal out of Oh Daddy is a Mystery To Me. Stevie sounds so good on that. They also do their little Rhiannon Intro (Dance). AND, they sing to each other on Rhiannon. ..."she rings like a bell.."

But video wise she was absolutely featured. Stevie had the two of first three videos. Sara (live) and Gypsy. Then they gave Christine's Hold me which features 5 of them. Later she got Seven Wonders and that's after Stop Draggin, and Stand Back If Anyone Falls.


I get what you're saying about the band not featuring her. But, I believe her own devices caused her "not to be featured a bit more than the band worrying about her superstar status. Otherwise the videos would be Big Love, Little Lies and Mystified. :laugh:

I try to imagine if she actually went in there with written tunes like she did for SYW and hung out more... I don't think the band would have had much choice if the material was good. (and the vocals too). Some of those Tango demos are just awful.

But having said all that, they've literally had her center stage since 1975. So kind of featured over the last 47 years or so. And for me personally, I used to like when she sat out ISA and NTF.
I smell what you are cooking. But videos are like album covers, they feature every band member. I thought the discussion was about writing songs together on albums which is why I would not include live stuff where everybody backs everybody at some point.
It is a good question and something they may look back on and regret. But I can also see why it did not happen. I agree Hold Me does sound better without Stevie. But even if she did not sound bad, Bella Donna was still high on the charts when Hold Me was released. I think the band wanted to not look like they were relying on Stevie and sticking to their old formulas. BTW, my favorite Chris backing for Stevie on an album is Straight Back. That wolf on the run line is so damn good. Its like a large Dairy Queen Butterfinger Blizzard on a hot summer day. Its delicious and only makes you want more.

[SteveMacD]

Does "Straight Back" count for nothing?

[DownOnRodeo]

Does "Straight Back" count for nothing?

In my book, yes. :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

I smell what you are cooking. But videos are like album covers, they feature every band member. I thought the discussion was about writing songs together on albums which is why I would not include live stuff where everybody backs everybody at some point.
It is a good question and something they may look back on and regret. But I can also see why it did not happen. I agree Hold Me does sound better without Stevie. But even if she did not sound bad, Bella Donna was still high on the charts when Hold Me was released. I think the band wanted to not look like they were relying on Stevie and sticking to their old formulas. BTW, my favorite Chris backing for Stevie on an album is Straight Back. That wolf on the run line is so damn good. Its like a large Dairy Queen Butterfinger Blizzard on a hot summer day. Its delicious and only makes you want more.

Want to know something even crazier, Macfan? A lot of those "insane" chiffon's that we loathe.. A lot of them hate Bella Donna. It's very strange.

[jbrownsjr]

BTW, my favorite Chris backing for Stevie on an album is Straight Back. That wolf on the run line is so damn good. Its like a large Dairy Queen Butterfinger Blizzard on a hot summer day. Its delicious and only makes you want more.

How the heck could I forget that?? I used to play it over and over. And it went over my head. Their voices strangely sound good together. And the keys on Straight Back are sublime.

[jbrownsjr]

Does "Straight Back" count for nothing?

OK OK so I forgot it. :laugh::wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

Want to know something even crazier, Macfan? A lot of those "insane" chiffon's that we loathe.. A lot of them hate Bella Donna. It's very strange.

And I will never understand that. Bella Donna is a masterpiece! I'm guessing her army hates anything that has a country tinged sound.

[Macfan4life]

And I will never understand that. Bella Donna is a masterpiece! I'm guessing her army hates anything that has a country tinged sound.
There are many Stevie fans that became fans during RAL. I can't understand that at all. I was still worshipping at the alter during RAL but I hid my disappointment deep inside. I was still in the cult of blind worship but I hid my true feelings from the world.


However on the flip side, I am in a tiny minority that loves Street Angel. Yes there are duds on the album. But there are a good group of songs that I love. I love the country rock vibe and the music rocks. In those ways its Bella Donna like.

No No No there's no beauty and the beast here.

To each their own I guess. I still cant wrap my head around you not liking Oh Daddy. Maybe the corn husking accident affected you in more ways than you realize.

[jbrownsjr]

I do really love this version of All Over Again.

[David]

Sweet dedication to George Hawkins and his family

Very nice. I was just chatting online with the songwriter Sal Bernardi about the 1984 Rickie Lee Jones tour, where George played such a big role. I like to think I’m the only person in the world who saw him play twice that year in different tours. George also did a Q&A here on the Penguin, which a few of you newer ledgies might not know. He answered a bunch of questions.

[jmn3]

Want to know something even crazier, Macfan? A lot of those "insane" chiffon's that we loathe.. A lot of them hate Bella Donna. It's very strange.

How does one like Stevie and hate Bella Donna? She peaked on the solo front right there out of the gate. It’s a fantastic album and it drops giant turds on a clunker like Rock a Little.

[David]

How does one like Stevie and hate Bella Donna?
It’s hard to believe, no? I guess there may be some Stevie followers who hate it, but I have never encountered them. I myself prefer some of the other albums, hating BD is a whole nuther level. How do you hate “Outside the Rain” or “After the Glitter Fades”? These are (semiprecious) gemstones!

[HomerMcvie]

How does one like Stevie and hate Bella Donna? She peaked on the solo front right there out of the gate. It’s a fantastic album and it drops giant turds on a clunker like Rock a Little.

This!

And you're right. She really did peak right out of the gate. Jimmy created a masterpiece, and EVERYTHING that followed was of lesser quality.

[jmn3]

This!

And you're right. She really did peak right out of the gate. Jimmy created a masterpiece, and EVERYTHING that followed was of lesser quality.

I think I blew a relationship with probably the best looking girl who ever would spend time with me over her telling me, on a second date, randomly, that Trouble in Shangri-La is the best album of our generation. I was like, can you call an album by a 50-something released when I was 20 “our generation?” But I was so vexed and told her it was okay but not even as good as Say You Will let alone best of our generation material or even the best Stevie solo album. Queue the awkwardness. We never recovered. I hadn’t even told her I was a Fleetwood Mac fan at that point but it didn’t matter. I had insulted her and things were just cold after that. :sorry:

[jmn3]

It’s hard to believe, no? I guess there may be some Stevie followers who hate it, but I have never encountered them. I myself prefer some of the other albums, hating BD is a whole nuther level. How do you hate “Outside the Rain” or “After the Glitter Fades”? These are (semiprecious) gemstones!

After the Glitter Fades is one of those songs that should be more well known. It’s absolutely one of my favorites of hers.

[DownOnRodeo]

Does glitter fade?

[jmn3]

Does glitter fade?

The nerve. Two words: Bob. Dylan.

[HomerMcvie]

After the Glitter Fades is one of those songs that should be more well known. It’s absolutely one of my favorites of hers.

It's too country for FM fans, and especially for Chiffonheads.

I absolutely LOVE IT.

[jmn3]

It's too country for FM fans, and especially for Chiffonheads.

I absolutely LOVE IT.

I don’t even really like country music but songs like that just hit me good. I also love That’s Alright and think it should be more well known too!