25th Anniversary of The Dance

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Today marks the 25th anniversary of the recording of The Dance. Coming home from work late one night in the summer of 97 and flipping on MTV and happening upon an airing of this concert was the beginning of my FM obsession. I think a lot of people my age (I was a teenager at the time) became fans in the same way. I've seen them many times live since then and considered myself a huge fan until everything fell apart.

I will say it's almost unfathomable that in those 25 years we only got one more full album from them and even Christine was mostly missing from that. 14 year old me wouldn't have ever believed that at the time. What a waste of talent... but alas I think I'll pull out my old DVD and give it a listen tonight. Hopefully I can enjoy it without getting too upset or angry about what could have or should have been.

[BombaySapphire3]

I always felt a little badly about the fans who came in much later than some of us old timers about the paucity of their recorded output . I became a fan in the mid 1970s at the height of their fame and creativity and was a huge Nicks fan as well . Imagine getting Bella Donna ,Mirage and The Wild Heart in less than a 23 month span. Along with other FM member solo albums. It almost doesn't seem real now looking back.

[mylittledemon]

Seems like yesterday sometimes.

Anyway, watch til the end to see an alternative version of The Chain!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZIH2tkx-gY

[SteveMacD]

I will say it's almost unfathomable that in those 25 years we only got one more full album from them and even Christine was mostly missing from that. 14 year old me wouldn't have ever believed that at the time. What a waste of talent...
We got two full albums ;)

None of how it played out was a huge surprise for me, which is why I wished at the time that Mick and John had just stuck with Bekka & Billy. I get it. The "Rumours" band is where the money is and is what people generally associate with the name Fleetwood Mac. (In retrospect, it's not like Bekka did anything with her career beyond being a backing singer and songwriter after Bekka & Billy, which is disappointing.)

Christine leaving? She'd already retired from the road at the end of 1990 and her "Time" songs made it obvious she was leaving the band. I was more surprised that she did The Dance than I was her retiring, but she went out on top, which she deserved (although I suspect it was the final nail in the coffin for her marriage).

The output we got from the band was only slightly less than what I thought we'd get, which was three albums. Two albums and an EP wasn't too far off the mark. Lindsey's extremely low productivity didn't inspire confidence. Now, that it's Stevie who's been holding things up is the actual thing that's surprised me.

[Macfan4life]

I remember one day flicking past the channels and saw on Entertainment Tonight the band got back together again WITH Lindsey OMG. Stevie was interviewed how she no longer wanted to stay angry at these people. I recorded the concert from MTV and played it a million times. At the time I was not aware how unhappy Chris was but you could see it in her face. She was not thrilled but always put the band ahead of herself. I bought the cassette (remember those). I waited in line for tickets and they had a lottery for the first 50 people and I had a winning ticket. Even then my seats were not great. Every show sold out and the Dance was #1. I was a bit disappointed in the concert though. I think because I played the concert so many times from the TV. It was the same set with exactly the same banter. I also was not thrilled with Stand Back, Go Insane and Not That Funny. They could have played 4 more classic Mac songs. I just found the music so rehearsed and had none of that spontaneous and loud arena rock. I love Lindsey and he is superior to Rick and Billy but I thought the Farewell concert in 1990 was more entertaining. I always felt guilty feeling that way. The highlight was hearing Tango songs like Big Love and Everywhere with Lindsey. However that was all we got. No Little Lies. No Isn't It Midnight, Seven Wonders, etc. But the impact of the Dance should not be overlooked. Stevie's solo career had tanked and she pretty much gave up. The year after the Dance she released Enchanted and was playing to full houses again.

[UnwindedDreams]

I was a bit disappointed in the concert though. I think because I played the concert so many times from the TV. It was the same set with exactly the same banter. I also was not thrilled with Stand Back, Go Insane and Not That Funny. No Little Lies. No Isn't It Midnight, Seven Wonders, etc.
Interesting! I loved the tour setlist but only that I think Sara and Over My Head should've been in it.

It's amazing that they managed to get new songs done, but Eagles did four new songs for Hell Freezes Over in 1994. I wonder if there was talk about doing a full album of new FM songs before they started the tour in September 1997.

[Macfan4life]

Interesting! I loved the tour setlist but only that I think Sara and Over My Head should've been in it.

It's amazing that they managed to get new songs done, but Eagles did four new songs for Hell Freezes Over in 1994. I wonder if there was talk about doing a full album of new FM songs before they started the tour in September 1997.
Hold Me, Sisters of the Moon, Love In Store, Little Lies, Sara, Think About Me, Eyes of the World, I Know I'm Not Wrong, Isn't It Midnight
Let me count the ways........

[SteveMacD]

Eagles did four new songs for Hell Freezes Over in 1994.

The crazy thing about that is one of the songs was written by Jim Capaldi. In 1994, he was part of his own reunion tour with Traffic, which wasn’t a success. Noticeably absent from the Traffic reunion was Dave Mason, who was in Fleetwood Mac.

[UnwindedDreams]

Hold Me, Sisters of the Moon, Love In Store, Little Lies, Sara, Think About Me, Eyes of the World, I Know I'm Not Wrong, Isn't It Midnight
Let me count the ways........
I take it you would've like them to not have done the 4 new songs?
Eyes of the World was done the first night of the tour but was swapped for Second Hand News

[bwboy]

Interesting! I loved the tour setlist but only that I think Sara and Over My Head should've been in it.

It's amazing that they managed to get new songs done, but Eagles did four new songs for Hell Freezes Over in 1994. I wonder if there was talk about doing a full album of new FM songs before they started the tour in September 1997.

I feel pretty confident that FM didn’t even consider doing a full album before the tour. I think we forget, in 1996, Fleetwood Mac was in limbo. The MTV Special was just that- a recorded concert over 2 nights edited into one concert special. FM had been nominated but shut out of the RRHOF twice, and the Time cd and lineup went out with a whimper. Then the concerts occurred, and generated a lot of buzz. So much so that a cd was planned to be released to coincide with the concert. When that concert finally aired on MTV to huge ratings, that was when the tour was set up, and the rest is history. FM owes their resurgence to MTV airing that concert, as well as VH1 for also airing it for several months after. But I don’t think anyone, including FM, thought the Dance would be as successful as it was, and they struck while the iron was hot.

[Macfan4life]

I take it you would've like them to not have done the 4 new songs?
Eyes of the World was done the first night of the tour but was swapped for Second Hand News
Not at all. I loved the new 3 songs. I just wish they dug a little deeper instead of the 2 solo songs and the long NTF. I was not picky. I loved every minute of it. Just looking back and looking for a wow factor. Lindsey back was HUGE and hearing Second Hand News again was probably the highlight. It was the sign Fleetwood Mac was back.

[UnwindedDreams]

Not at all. I loved the new 3 songs. I just wish they dug a little deeper instead of the 2 solo songs and the long NTF. I was not picky. I loved every minute of it. Just looking back and looking for a wow factor. Lindsey back was HUGE and hearing Second Hand News again was probably the highlight. It was the sign Fleetwood Mac was back.
Please remind me why it's not four new songs... was one of Lindsey's heard before The Dance?

Was reuniting the Rumours lineup Carl Stubner's idea?
Stevie left in 1990 to do solo work only and Rick left the band after BTM to join Stevie, right?

[BombaySapphire3]

It's amazing that they managed to get new songs done, but Eagles did four new songs for Hell Freezes Over in 1994. I wonder if there was talk about doing a full album of new FM songs before they started the tour in September 1997.

Hell Freezes Over was the template for The Dance. All things Fleetwood Mac were in the crapper by the mid 1990s .Time ,just 2 studio albums after a worldwide 15 million selling blockbuster completely tanked. It was almost like the wilderness years in reverse except any of those albums did better than Time. They copied the Eagle's successful formula and it worked.

[HomerMcvie]

Hell Freezes Over was the template for The Dance. All things Fleetwood Mac were in the crapper by the mid 1990s .Time ,just 2 studio albums after a worldwide 15 million selling blockbuster completely tanked. It was almost like the wilderness years in reverse except any of those albums did better than Time. They copied the Eagle's successful formula and it worked.

Absolutely. They completely copied the Eagles reunion success. FM was totally in the crapper then, and they saw that the Eagles were killing it again.

"Let's pretend that Time never happened".

[SteveMacD]

All things Fleetwood Mac were in the crapper by the mid 1990s .Time ,just 2 studio albums after a worldwide 15 million selling blockbuster completely tanked. It was almost like the wilderness years in reverse except any of those albums did better than Time.

It's not like OOTC and Street Angel did anything, either. The only difference is they promoted those albums.

The last tour date from the Burnette/Bramlett/Mason lineup was Sept. 1, 1995. "Time" was released on Oct. 10, 1995. The only other show they performed was a corporate gig on Nov. 15, 1995. No videos, no tour, only scant radio play with "I Do." Not that it would have done much better, but it was DOA.

Lindsey and Fleetwood Mac didn't have viable options without each other. That's why Lindsey asked Mick to work on his "solo" album.

Stevie had enough success as a solo artist that all she had to do was lose weight, stop smoking, and get a massive makeover and have an all-star "comeback" special. However, it wouldn't have been nearly as robust as the bump she got from the Fleetwood Mac reunion.

[mylittledemon]

Please remind me why it's not four new songs... was one of Lindsey's heard before The Dance?


3 songwriters, 3 new songs, I guess? Lindsey re-worked "Go Insane" from his solo album so I guess that doesn't count amongst My Little Demon, Temporary One, and Sweet Girl. I had never heard Silver Springs prior to the Dance, so I still think of it as 4 new songs. :)


Was reuniting the Rumours lineup Carl Stubner's idea?


Seems more like Rob Cavallo pushed for it in '96 while helping Lindsey record his solo album.

[SteveMacD]

3 songwriters, 3 new songs, I guess? Lindsey re-worked "Go Insane" from his solo album so I guess that doesn't count amongst My Little Demon, Temporary One, and Sweet Girl. I had never heard Silver Springs prior to the Dance, so I still think of it as 4 new songs. :)
You forgot "Bleed To Love Her."


Seems more like Rob Cavallo pushed for it in '96 while helping Lindsey record his solo album.
There were numerous people pushing for it.

[jbrownsjr]

He even announced "Bleed to Love Her" as a new song. (If I recall correctly)

[Macfan4life]

One other Dance memory that was sort of scary. The Dance was sold out in every city. Christine only agreed to 40 shows so the band did not schedule other shows at the same cities that would sell out in an hour. This only led to a more demand for tickets. I saw one of the last shows at the West Palm Beach amphitheater. The band rented 3 entire floors at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach. I had a friend who worked at the Breakers and he told me the silly names the band used when checking in. I think Mick was something like "Corona Light."
With the extreme crowds, I arrived at the amphitheater early and stood in line with thousands of others. I think the gates were to open at 7 and the concert began at 8. Stevie arrived late for sound check. I was in line when the gates were supposed to open but the band was performing Dreams for their sound check. Suddenly the 1979 Cincinatti Who concert came to my mind. I started to panic a bit because my fear was what happened in 1979. The amphitheater had grass seating similar to the first come seating the Who concert had. Was the crowd thinking the band performing Dreams after 7pm the concert had started? My fear was pushing would start and we would be trampled to death. Not cool. It was a foolish move by the band and the venue. If you arrive late for a sound check either do the sound check without Stevie or don't do it at all. You don't do a sound check after the gates are supposed to open and thousands are in line at an outside venue where the fans can hear you. The Palm Beach post reported on this the next day and pinpointed Stevie's late arrival for such a late sound check.
Lindsey cut his hand during the ending of Go Your Own Way this night and had to be rushed to the hospital for multiple stitches. However he did finish the concert. Because the stampede fear was still in my mind, I left during the end of Go Your Own Way. I did not get to see Farmer's Daughter but I heard it in the car.

[UnwindedDreams]

Seems more like Rob Cavallo pushed for it in '96 while helping Lindsey record his solo album.
Ok. I had seen a video in 97 where Lindsey asked Mick and John to work on an album with him. Then Lindsey asked Chris to come join their sessions.
Stevie asked Lindsey to do Twisted with her.
And Carl Stubner from seeing this, proposed a live concert to the group.
But I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly.

[SteveMacD]

Ok. I had seen a video in 97 where Lindsey asked Mick and John to work on an album with him. Then Lindsey asked Chris to come join their sessions.
Stevie asked Lindsey to do Twisted with her.
And Carl Stubner from seeing this, proposed a live concert to the group.
But I'm not sure if I'm remembering it correctly.

Warner, Clear Channel, and Viacom started pushing it after the massive success of “Hell Freezes Over.”

As it is, OOTC was such a commercial disaster that Lindsey and the label realized that he wasn’t commercially viable outside of Fleetwood Mac. Of course, Fleetwood Mac had been touring as an opening act or as part of the oldies package tour circuit with a new lineup.

That’s when things began to thaw and Lindsey started working with Mick. The band then finished up its commitments and the label let Time arrive DOA. Why spend money on promoting a new lineup of Fleetwood Mac when a project with Lindsey and Mick had more commercial potential? Billy Burnette knew it was coming simply based on which industry people started coming around and warned Bekka and Dave.

[UnwindedDreams]

Warner, Clear Channel, and Viacom started pushing it after the massive success of “Hell Freezes Over.”

As it is, OOTC was such a commercial disaster that Lindsey and the label realized that he wasn’t commercially viable outside of Fleetwood Mac. Of course, Fleetwood Mac had been touring as an opening act or as part of the oldies package tour circuit with a new lineup.

That’s when things began to thaw and Lindsey started working with Mick. The band then finished up its commitments and the label let Time arrive DOA. Why spend money on promoting a new lineup of Fleetwood Mac when a project with Lindsey and Mick had more commercial potential? Billy Burnette knew it was coming simply based on which industry people started coming around and warned Bekka and Dave.
Thank you.
As for Lindsey and Stevie thawing then, did Stevie call Lindsey to come record Twister with her before Lindsey called Mick to work on Gift of Screws?

I wonder why Rick didn't join Bekka and Billy too.

[bombaysaffires]

3 songwriters, 3 new songs, I guess? Lindsey re-worked "Go Insane" from his solo album so I guess that doesn't count amongst My Little Demon, Temporary One, and Sweet Girl. I had never heard Silver Springs prior to the Dance, so I still think of it as 4 new songs. :)



Seems more like Rob Cavallo pushed for it in '96 while helping Lindsey record his solo album.

that's the story Rob himself tells in the dvd.

[mylittledemon]

You forgot "Bleed To Love Her."



Holy cow! *facepalm* Talk about dementia setting in during my old age!

[jbrownsjr]

Holy cow! *facepalm* Talk about dementia setting in during my old age!

I was jaw dropped. (well, at first I thought you were going to mention it later).

Then I was jaw dropped you forgot it. :lol:

[mylittledemon]

... it's my favourite of the new songs, so... even more jaw-dropping! :distress::laugh:

[UnwindedDreams]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?

[Villavic]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?

No. The return of Lindsey was a key factor. Plus, I'm sure it wouldn't have had the same support of the record company. But it would have been moderately successful.

[Macfan4life]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?
It would have been a mildly successful tour but not a sold out freak show the Dance was. When the Dance happened, it was almost like Rick and Billy never existed. Remember hearing how the band reunited and touring for the first time in 15 years. That was said all the time. People forgot that the band carried on with Chris and Stevie for several year and again without them.
It was huge. Chris's return was huge too but it was blunted by the fact the band had just toured the world without her the year before. If they had disbanded after Say You Will, I think her return would have been even bigger.

[jbrownsjr]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?

Just like Christine's return, they had that extra marketing of playing her songs, and the FAB 5 Rumours reunited... So, I suppose not quite as impactful as Lindsey's return.

Agree that Warner Brothers would not have cared as much as they do/did for Rumours line up.

[UnwindedDreams]

Stevie took Rick out on the Street Angel Tour so I would think out of loyalty she would've pushed for him to be in the 97 reunion.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie took Rick out on the Street Angel Tour so I would think out of loyalty she would've pushed for him to be in the 97 reunion.

Mick took Bekka out on two tours. Mick and John both recorded Billy’s songs on their solo project and put him back in the band for a tour.

[UnwindedDreams]

Mick took Bekka out on two tours. Mick and John both recorded Billy’s songs on their solo project and put him back in the band for a tour.
Bekka and Billy went on Zoo Tours, right?

[jmn3]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?

It would have been nothing. The spectacle around The Dance was pretty earth shattering at the time and the story was all around how it was the first time in 15 years that this specific incarnation of the band was playing together (live). It's hard to think now given how much media has changed, but they were EVERYWHERE in 1997. It was massive. They crossed generations - it wasn't just the boomers that got reinterested. Their kids (I was 16 when it was filmed) jumped on board. That concert was EVERYWHERE on TV that fall. In the days before social media and the internet being very usable, it was incredible how much that reunion was in your face. That tour could have gone on a lot more and likely continued to sell out across the world throughout 1998 if Christine didn't leave. And the template was surely Hell Freezes Over. The difference was with FM, you need the "couple drama" on stage to really sell it. You needed the five with their history of breakups and heartache and Stevie sleeping with Mick and Lindsey....all of that had to be there. Rick and Billy would have been blahsville as far as the soap opera aspect, not to mention their own songs with Fleetwood Mac were limited and relatively unknown. Stevie singing Silver Springs to Billy would have been beyond lame. For example, her harmonizing on GYOW while staring down Neil Finn was just...what?

The Lindsey/Stevie crap that we now lament was a huge piece of the sales pitch. Landslide with just the two of them. Silver Springs being unearthed in a legendary way and that clip of her singing to him at the end...a reunion with the 1987-90 band would have gone nowhere. Maybe if Behind the Mask was popular, but it wasn't. There's no way that reunion would have been 1/10th as successful as The Dance.

[UnwindedDreams]

The difference was with FM, you need the "couple drama" on stage to really sell it. You needed the five with their history of breakups and heartache and Stevie sleeping with Mick and Lindsey....all of that had to be there. Rick and Billy would have been blahsville as far as the soap opera aspect,

The Lindsey/Stevie crap that we now lament was a huge piece of the sales pitch. Landslide with just the two of them. Silver Springs being unearthed in a legendary way and that clip of her singing to him at the end...a reunion with the 1987-90 band would have gone nowhere. Maybe if Behind the Mask was popular, but it wasn't. There's no way that reunion would have been 1/10th as successful as The Dance.
Stevie and Rick did have the flirting acting onstage, with their heads touching, and I think she did dance over by Billy's microphone. So there was chemistry.

[David]

If The Dance was a reunion of Stevie, Billy, Rick, Chris, Mick, and John playing the same set (heavy on Rumours songs), would it have had the same success as an album and tour?

Not at all. There was no demand for that reunion and only a normal market for a usual tour with the Mac name. Nicks would have put them into arenas (instead of spas, county fairs, and supermarket parking lots). Otherwise, no MTV or TV shows, no magazine covers, no Billboard #1, no adulation from other pop stars — and certainly no Grammy or Hall of Fame nominations.

[bwboy]

When the Dance happened, it was almost like Rick and Billy never existed. Remember hearing how the band reunited and touring for the first time in 15 years. That was said all the time. People forgot that the band carried on with Chris and Stevie for several year and again without them.


Yep. As I recall, when VH1 did their Behind the Music show on FM, they completely skipped the years 1988-1995 and made it sound like Behind the Mask and Time never existed, or that Rick, Billy, Bekka, and Dave had never been in FM.

[David]

Stevie and Rick did have the flirting acting onstage, with their heads touching, and I think she did dance over by Billy's microphone. So there was chemistry.
How many people walked away after a Mac or Nicks show gushing, “I just loved the way Stevie and Rick flirted!”?

That’s a nonstarter.

[bwboy]

Stevie took Rick out on the Street Angel Tour so I would think out of loyalty she would've pushed for him to be in the 97 reunion.

Rick was also on her record label, and I think he was only the second person ever, besides Stevie, to be on that label, so Stevie and Rick were definitely close. But I really doubt Rick would have rejoined anyway, even if Stevie had asked. I think he felt burned by FM, and I think he was, too.

[UnwindedDreams]

Rick was also on her record label, and I think he was only the second person ever, besides Stevie, to be on that label, so Stevie and Rick were definitely close. But I really doubt Rick would have rejoined anyway, even if Stevie had asked. I think he felt burned by FM, and I think he was, too.
Rick chose to leave Fleetwood Mac though. Billy stayed.

[HomerMcvie]

Yep. As I recall, when VH1 did their Behind the Music show on FM, they completely skipped the years 1988-1995 and made it sound like Behind the Mask and Time never existed, or that Rick, Billy, Bekka, and Dave had never been in FM.

They've always done that. What about Bob Welch? Never in the band!:mad:

$tevie is the QUEEN of revisionist history.

[SteveMacD]

For example, her harmonizing on GYOW while staring down Neil Finn was just...what?

Fun fact: Stevie started doing that on the Tango tour with Billy. Bekka also did that on the “Another Link in the Chain” tour.

[bwboy]

Rick chose to leave Fleetwood Mac though. Billy stayed.

I know. That’s why I don’t think Rick would have returned to FM ever. Whereas I believe Billy would go back in a heartbeat.

[UnwindedDreams]

Even though Stevie was doing big amphitheaters and state fairs, I guess she went along with the reunion because Howard Kaufman thought her touring career needed a boost.

And it worked because in 98 she played the venues that The Dance performed in.

[jmn3]

Yep. As I recall, when VH1 did their Behind the Music show on FM, they completely skipped the years 1988-1995 and made it sound like Behind the Mask and Time never existed, or that Rick, Billy, Bekka, and Dave had never been in FM.

If I’m not mistaken they skipped everything from Tusk to the Clinton inauguration. I haven’t seen it in forever but I swear there was a line like “after Tusk there were some other albums, some did well, some did not..”. Lol. There was absolutely ZERO interest in the non-Rumours Mac

[jmn3]

Stevie and Rick did have the flirting acting onstage, with their heads touching, and I think she did dance over by Billy's microphone. So there was chemistry.

Nobody cared about it. There was no backstory there. Clowns weren’t going to “ship” Stevie and anyone else. The soap opera element had as much to do with their success as the music. Especially in 1997, you needed the Rumours 5 to even come close to having a rehash of Hell Freezes Over. The label knew it. So did the band.

[jmn3]

They've always done that. What about Bob Welch? Never in the band!:mad:

$tevie is the QUEEN of revisionist history.

Well I mean she claimed to not know Black Magic Woman was a Fleetwood Mac song until 2018. Despite the famous earlier claim of back to front to back listening of EVERY FLEETWOOD MAC ALBUM in 1974.

She just says stuff. Truth be damned!

[HomerMcvie]

Well I mean she claimed to not know Black Magic Woman was a Fleetwood Mac song until 2018. Despite the famous earlier claim of back to front to back listening of EVERY FLEETWOOD MAC ALBUM in 1974.

She just says stuff. Truth be damned!

$he's the George Costanza of the rock world...

I think $HE even believes the crap that dribbles out of her mouth.

"It's not a lie, if you believe it, Jerry" - GC

[bwboy]

Even though Stevie was doing big amphitheaters and state fairs, I guess she went along with the reunion because Howard Kaufman thought her touring career needed a boost.

And it worked because in 98 she played the venues that The Dance performed in.

Well, Street Angel was her first bomb- I forget where it peaked, maybe in the Billboard top 50? And no hit single, either. Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind got some airplay but didn’t make the top 40. So her star had vastly diminished by the time the Dance came around. But honestly, I think back then she wanted FM to get back together, not just for her own career but because she genuinely had the desire to be with them again. Billy wrote in his book that when FM was approached about playing at the inauguration, it was Stevie who called him and asked if he would step out and let Lindsey play with FM again, and I don’t think he would lie about that. And despite what many folks say here, I do believe that moment in Landslide was sincere between Lindsey and Stevie- I don’t believe it any other time, but I believed it that one time, yes. They reconnected over the course of those two nights, which made the concert so watchable.

I only mention this because I believe the Dance was more than just an opportunity to regain their luster and fame as a band… it was also an opportunity to repair their relationships, all of them, and it worked. It just didn’t stick.

[jmn3]

And despite what many folks say here, I do believe that moment in Landslide was sincere between Lindsey and Stevie- I don’t believe it any other time, but I believed it that one time, yes. They reconnected over the course of those two nights, which made the concert so watchable.

I only mention this because I believe the Dance was more than just an opportunity to regain their luster and fame as a band… it was also an opportunity to repair their relationships, all of them, and it worked. It just didn’t stick.

I would agree with all of this. I think there was absolutely a connection between S&L during the filming of The Dance. I mean we basically know they were at the least hooking up during that timeframe. You could see the closeness during that four part MTV interview that is on YouTube.

The Dance was certainly about mending fences with each other and likely “going out” on top. In 1997 at 50 years old I’m sure they doubted there was endless tours ahead of them. But the market for classic rock bands blew up at that time and into the 2000’s through today. I’d have to think going into The Dance if they were told 20 years later they’d still be touring and reigniting their fighting, they’d think that was insane.

[jmn3]

$he's the George Costanza of the rock world...

I think $HE even believes the crap that dribbles out of her mouth.

"It's not a lie, if you believe it, Jerry" - GC

Georgie boy knew he was full of crap and that half his life was a lie…”you’ve been living a lie? I’ve been living like…20!”

She’s actually in her old age became the Kramer of rock. A hipster doofus!

[HomerMcvie]

Georgie boy knew he was full of crap and that half his life was a lie…”you’ve been living a lie? I’ve been living like…20!”

She’s actually in her old age became the Kramer of rock. A hipster doofus!

Lindsey's hair should make him Kramer. Or "the hair formerly known as Kramer".

Butt back to $tevie....I don't think $he really knows what the actual truth is on stuff. I don't know if $he's dreamed it all up(her version of the truth), or her delusional friends tell her how it should be. But $he's an investigative reporter's dream, because 85% of what $he says is wrong.

[jmn3]

Lindsey's hair should make him Kramer. Or "the hair formerly known as Kramer".

Butt back to $tevie....I don't think $he really knows what the actual truth is on stuff. I don't know if $he's dreamed it all up(her version of the truth), or her delusional friends tell her how it should be. But $he's an investigative reporter's dream, because 85% of what $he says is wrong.

Anyone that spends a majority of their life surrounded by yes-men who live off your income is bound to become a narcissistic fool. She believes most of her crap at this point. Anyone that ever would’ve tried to humble her (her parents are the obvious choices) is gone from her life.

[HomerMcvie]

Anyone that spends a majority of their life surrounded by yes-men who live off your income is bound to become a narcissistic fool. She believes most of her crap at this point. Anyone that ever would’ve tried to humble her (her parents are the obvious choices) is gone from her life.

Ding, ding, ding. THIS.

Yep, for 40+ years now, $he's been a queen, surrounded by her adoring (PAID) friends. $he's almost become Michael Jackson. Minus the pedophilia.

[cbBen]

Well I mean she claimed to not know Black Magic Woman was a Fleetwood Mac song until 2018. Despite the famous earlier claim of back to front to back listening of EVERY FLEETWOOD MAC ALBUM in 1974.

She just says stuff. Truth be damned!

"Black Magic Woman" isn't on any of their standard (non-compilation) studio albums. It's a non-album single.

[UnwindedDreams]

"Black Magic Woman" isn't on any of their standard (non-compilation) studio albums. It's a non-album single.
Maybe English Rose wasn't available for purchase at her record store.

[SteveMacD]

Maybe English Rose wasn't available for purchase at her record store.

It was long out of print by then.

That said, she didn’t say that she’d just found out “Black Magic Woman” was a Fleetwood Mac song only prior to the 2018 tour. The way it came off when I heard the speech was that she didn’t realize it was a Fleetwood Mac prior to joining the band. People just interjected more to the story than what was actually said, especially on here :rolleyes:

[Macfan4life]

Well, Street Angel was her first bomb- I forget where it peaked, maybe in the Billboard top 50? And no hit single, either. Maybe Love Will Change Your Mind got some airplay but didn’t make the top 40. So her star had vastly diminished by the time the Dance came around. But honestly, I think back then she wanted FM to get back together, not just for her own career but because she genuinely had the desire to be with them again. Billy wrote in his book that when FM was approached about playing at the inauguration, it was Stevie who called him and asked if he would step out and let Lindsey play with FM again, and I don’t think he would lie about that. And despite what many folks say here, I do believe that moment in Landslide was sincere between Lindsey and Stevie- I don’t believe it any other time, but I believed it that one time, yes. They reconnected over the course of those two nights, which made the concert so watchable.

I only mention this because I believe the Dance was more than just an opportunity to regain their luster and fame as a band… it was also an opportunity to repair their relationships, all of them, and it worked. It just didn’t stick.
I don't think it ever worked. It was pretend. Chris wanted out and warned everyone to not ask her to stay or do anymore gigs. Stevie and Lindsey went through a pretend show every night. Stevie did not like working with Lindsey on Say You Will. Didn't Chris reveal in an interview several years ago that Stevie and Lindsey never got along even on the Dance tour. Those hugs were fake kid.
If you watch the Dance rehearsal interviews they get asked why they got back together especially Lindsey after leaving the psychos behind. They never give convincing answers. They heard Irving tell them the cash cow the Eagles reunion was and it was more about money than legacy. The late 90s was the time touring made tons of money over making music/albums. In the 70s and 80s bands could make more on record sales than touring. In the late 90s they started selling all those premium packages and tickets prices went through the roof. All the money today since the late 90s is from touring. Stevie probably made more money on her 24K Gold tour than all of her solo tours combined. Many nights she was grossing over 1 million from one show.

[UnwindedDreams]

It was long out of print by then.

That said, she didn’t say that she’d just found out “Black Magic Woman” was a Fleetwood Mac song only prior to the 2018 tour. The way it came off when I heard the speech was that she didn’t realize it was a Fleetwood Mac prior to joining the band. People just interjected more to the story than what was actually said, especially on here :rolleyes:
I wonder when she found out it was a Peter Green composition. Maybe when it was rehearsed for the Tango Tour?

[bwboy]

I don't think it ever worked. It was pretend. Chris wanted out and warned everyone to not ask her to stay or do anymore gigs. Stevie and Lindsey went through a pretend show every night. Stevie did not like working with Lindsey on Say You Will. Didn't Chris reveal in an interview several years ago that Stevie and Lindsey never got along even on the Dance tour. Those hugs were fake kid.
If you watch the Dance rehearsal interviews they get asked why they got back together especially Lindsey after leaving the psychos behind. They never give convincing answers.

I’m talking solely about the Dance special, not the tour or Say You Will. Those two nights captured on film were not pretend, IMO. Maybe I’m wrong but who’s to say what’s right?

[bwboy]

Well I mean she claimed to not know Black Magic Woman was a Fleetwood Mac song until 2018. Despite the famous earlier claim of back to front to back listening of EVERY FLEETWOOD MAC ALBUM in 1974.

She just says stuff. Truth be damned!

In all fairness, if she listened to every FM album back in 1974, it’s entirety possible she just didn’t remember Black Magic Woman. I mean, we’re talking 45+years ago.

[jbrownsjr]

In all fairness, if she listened to every FM album back in 1974, it’s entirety possible she just didn’t remember Black Magic Woman. I mean, we’re talking 45+years ago.

I agree BwBoy, she can't remember where her nose is half the time. She probably knew it, forgot it, and realized it was a FM tune. (again).

[Villavic]

I agree BwBoy, she can't remember where her nose is half the time. She probably knew it, forgot it, and realized it was a FM tune. (again).

David Bowie said he was dependent on drugs, especially cocaine, during Station to Station recording sessions, and he recalled almost nothing of the production. So, even though SN was maybe not in cocaine that much in 1974-75, probably her later addiction made her forget many things.

[jbrownsjr]

David Bowie said he was dependent on drugs, especially cocaine, during Station to Station recording sessions, and he recalled almost nothing of the production. So, even though SN was maybe not in cocaine that much in 1974-75, probably her later addiction made her forget many things.

A lot of artists don't go back and listen to their own music after it's produced. I can't imagine she put an old FM record on after she became a solo star.

[UnwindedDreams]

David Bowie said he was dependent on drugs, especially cocaine, during Station to Station recording sessions, and he recalled almost nothing of the production. So, even though SN was maybe not in cocaine that much in 1974-75, probably her later addiction made her forget many things.
I think Stevie's memory is mainly poor from the drug abuse and the klonopin. Being a senior citizen now too, there comes senility.
She was dedicating Landslide in Nashville in 2015 and she couldn't remember the name Vanessa Carlton.
At a 2018 concert, she couldn't remember the name of the person she wrote Leather and Lace for. Sharon Celani spoke it into the microphone for her. In 2019, she said Harry Styles left NSync (Harry was an infant when NSync was out)

[David]

A lot of artists don't go back and listen to their own music after it's produced. I can't imagine she put an old FM record on after she became a solo star.

But the thing is that you don’t have to put on a Fleetwood Mac album to know “Black Magic Woman.” Unless you’ve been living under a rock for fifty years, you would know it’s a Peter Green song made famous in the US by Santana. I mean, everybody and their grandma knows this song. Does Stevie not know “All Along the Watchtower,” “Paint It Black,” or “Layla,” either? Who makes a living in rock and doesn’t know “Black Magic Woman”? Very, very odd.

[BombaySapphire3]

But the thing is that you don’t have to put on a Fleetwood Mac album to know “Black Magic Woman.” Unless you’ve been living under a rock for fifty years, you would know it’s a Peter Green song made famous in the US by Santana. I mean, everybody and their grandma knows this song. Does Stevie not know “All Along the Watchtower,” “Paint It Black,” or “Layla,” either? Who makes a living in rock and doesn’t know “Black Magic Woman”? Very, very odd.

It was my understanding that she did not know that the song was a Fleetwood Mac song to begin with which is myopic enough but if she did not know the song period then there is some dementia there. The song hit number 4 on Billboard in early 1971 when she was 22 and opening for Bay area bands. Years later after Fleetwood Mac with Peter in tow was inducted into the RRHOF Peter went on to play on Black Magic Woman at the same show for Santana's induction . Unbelievable.

[HomerMcvie]

Aren't people ASSuming she has a high IQ or something?

I've never considered her to have much going on upstairs, other than her little poetic ditties...

[SteveMacD]

I wonder when she found out it was a Peter Green composition. Maybe when it was rehearsed for the Tango Tour?

I'm guessing 1975. It was a staple in the band's set prior to 1975, so I'm sure it was at least discussed for the 1975 tour. With "Get Like You Used To Be," "Rhiannon" and "The Green Manalish," it probably seemed stylistically and thematically redundant.

[SteveMacD]

But the thing is that you don’t have to put on a Fleetwood Mac album to know “Black Magic Woman.” Unless you’ve been living under a rock for fifty years, you would know it’s a Peter Green song made famous in the US by Santana. I mean, everybody and their grandma knows this song. Does Stevie not know “All Along the Watchtower,” “Paint It Black,” or “Layla,” either? Who makes a living in rock and doesn’t know “Black Magic Woman”? Very, very odd.

You can’t be serious. You can’t really think something that unbelievably stupid. You of all people.

She never said she didn’t know the song. Come on, man, she was in San Francisco when Santana, who was from San Francisco, had a massive hit with the song. Of course she knew it. She didn’t know it was a Fleetwood Mac song, though, until after she was in the band.

Again, she never gave a timeline as to when she found out it was a Fleetwood Mac song. My interpretation, you know, from actually having seen her perform it, was that she realized it after she joined the band, as in 1975. But, by all means, continue on with an exaggeration that was only created on this board.

[DownOnRodeo]

But, by all means, continue on with an exaggeration that was only created on this board.

<a href="https://ibb.co/jJ8Wzm5"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/bb62FT3/giddy-kramer.gif" alt="giddy-kramer" border="0"></a>

[jbrownsjr]

But the thing is that you don’t have to put on a Fleetwood Mac album to know “Black Magic Woman.” Unless you’ve been living under a rock for fifty years, you would know it’s a Peter Green song made famous in the US by Santana. I mean, everybody and their grandma knows this song. Does Stevie not know “All Along the Watchtower,” “Paint It Black,” or “Layla,” either? Who makes a living in rock and doesn’t know “Black Magic Woman”? Very, very odd.

She's very odd. She lives in her own world. :shrug::wavey:

[David]

You can’t be serious. You can’t really think something that unbelievably stupid. You of all people.
Well, I love you, too!

My interpretation, you know, from actually having seen her perform it, was that she realized it after she joined the band, as in 1975. Wait, so you’re saying she knew it was a Fleetwood song a long time ago? So why are we all talking about her not knowing on the 2018 tour? What gives, Steve, what gives? Is this fake news?

[David]

I actually like some fake news, and I enjoy spreading certain types of fake news. Just the other day, I spread this piece of disinformation around the internet:

Alligator lizards have a special use in seismology. They are capable of alerting human populations of an impending earthquake by reacting to primary compressional seismic waves as they travel through the solids and liquids of the lithosphere. More research is needed, but these lizards may be able to save thousands of lives in a major strike-slip or thrust event.

https://548038.smushcdn.com/1730346/wp-content/uploads/Southern-Alligator-Lizard.jpg?lossy=1&strip=0&webp=1

[aleuzzi]

I actually like some fake news, and I enjoy spreading certain types of fake news. Just the other day, I spread this piece of disinformation around the internet:


Alligator lizards have a special use in seismology. They are capable of alerting human populations of an impending earthquake by reacting to primary compressional seismic waves as they travel through the solids and liquids of the lithosphere. More research is needed, but these lizards may be able to save thousands of lives in a major strike-slip or thrust event.
https://548038.smushcdn.com/1730346/wp-content/uploads/Southern-Alligator-Lizard.jpg?lossy=1&strip=0&webp=1

This makes good flash fiction.

[David]

This makes good flash fiction.

{{{{{Tony}}}}}

In other news, I revisited some of the Penguin Q&As this afternoon and found the reading bittersweet. Not only are about eight of the guests deceased, but many of the ledgies responsible for the questions are, too.

[bwboy]

But the thing is that you don’t have to put on a Fleetwood Mac album to know “Black Magic Woman.” Unless you’ve been living under a rock for fifty years, you would know it’s a Peter Green song made famous in the US by Santana. I mean, everybody and their grandma knows this song. Does Stevie not know “All Along the Watchtower,” “Paint It Black,” or “Layla,” either? Who makes a living in rock and doesn’t know “Black Magic Woman”? Very, very odd.

I read an interview years ago with Diana Ross, shortly after Matthew Shepherd was killed in a gay hate crime. That was all over the news. In the interview, the reporter asked Diana Ross about Matthew Shepherd, and she had no clue what he was talking about. He even explained it to her in detail, perhaps thinking she just didn’t recognize the name, but would know the general story. Nothing. She had not a clue. She said it was a horrible thing, but up until then she had never heard of it. That interview taught me that celebrity millionaires truly are in a different world from us. I try to imagine a world where someone doesn’t watch CNN or read the news or know about basic current events. I suppose Diana Ross may not be typical, but sadly I suspect she is.

So after that, no, it’s not hard for me to believe that Stevie either didn’t know or forgot that Fleetwood Mac recorded Black Magic Woman.

[aleuzzi]

{{{{{Tony}}}}}

In other news, I revisited some of the Penguin Q&As this afternoon and found the reading bittersweet. Not only are about eight of the guests deceased, but many of the ledgies responsible for the questions are, too.

Yeah, I know. It’s so sad on both accounts. But you’re sill here—and I love that.

[BombaySapphire3]

I read an interview years ago with Diana Ross, shortly after Matthew Shepherd was killed in a gay hate crime. That was all over the news. In the interview, the reporter asked Diana Ross about Matthew Shepherd, and she had no clue what he was talking about. He even explained it to her in detail, perhaps thinking she just didn’t recognize the name, but would know the general story. Nothing. She had not a clue. She said it was a horrible thing, but up until then she had never heard of it. That interview taught me that celebrity millionaires truly are in a different world from us. I try to imagine a world where someone doesn’t watch CNN or read the news or know about basic current events. I suppose Diana Ross may not be typical, but sadly I suspect she is.

So after that, no, it’s not hard for me to believe that Stevie either didn’t know or forgot that Fleetwood Mac recorded Black Magic Woman.
Diana is probably worse than Stevie. I knew someone in the eighties that was a limo driver in Vegas and was driving Diana when she asked that they stop at a restaurant for a "piece of toast" and then said " yes I eat like regular people".

[UnwindedDreams]

Diana is probably worse than Stevie. I knew someone in the eighties that was a limo driver in Vegas and was driving Diana when she asked that they stop at a restaurant for a "piece of toast" and then said " yes I eat like regular people".
Diana has been around a lot longer than Stevie too. Wonder if she got butter or jelly on the toast

[DownOnRodeo]

I knew someone in the eighties that was a limo driver in Vegas and was driving Diana when she asked that they stop at a restaurant for a "piece of toast"

"Stop!... In the name of toast."

"Yes, ma'am."

[jbrownsjr]

{{{{{Tony}}}}}

In other news, I revisited some of the Penguin Q&As this afternoon and found the reading bittersweet. Not only are about eight of the guests deceased, but many of the ledgies responsible for the questions are, too.

The ledge wouldn't be the same without you. In fact, I miss you when you take small hiatuses. (Is that a word?). :rolleyes:

[BigAl84]

It's still shocking to me that a band that fully knows how to take advantage of a cash grab has let this anniversary come and go. There's easily a DVD + CD package that Warner could release. Expand the soundtrack CD with all of the tracks that were cut.

[jbrownsjr]

It's still shocking to me that a band that fully knows how to take advantage of a cash grab has let this anniversary come and go. There's easily a DVD + CD package that Warner could release. Expand the soundtrack CD with all of the tracks that were cut.

Wouldn't that be Rhino (WB)? And yes, agreed.

[michelej1]

It's still shocking to me that a band that fully knows how to take advantage of a cash grab has let this anniversary come and go. There's easily a DVD + CD package that Warner could release. Expand the soundtrack CD with all of the tracks that were cut.

The band likes a cash grab, but I don't think they have ever really known how to take advantage of one. Whenever they've had a chance to maximize money making potential they've always fumbled the ball. It's amazing they're as successful as they are, since there are so many missed opportunities in their history. Now, they're just slouching their way out of Bethlehem.

[aleuzzi]

The band likes a cash grab, but I don't think they have ever really known how to take advantage of one. Whenever they've had a chance to maximize money making potential they've always fumbled the ball. It's amazing they're as successful as they are, since there are so many missed opportunities in their history. Now, they're just slouching their way out of Bethlehem.

Anyone who can manage to bring Yeats into this is a pro. Thanks, michelej1!

[jbrownsjr]

Anyone who can manage to bring Yeats into this is a pro. Thanks, michelej1!

Stevie does slouch and she did look like a lion in the 80's, :lol:

[BigAl84]

The band likes a cash grab, but I don't think they have ever really known how to take advantage of one. Whenever they've had a chance to maximize money making potential they've always fumbled the ball. It's amazing they're as successful as they are, since there are so many missed opportunities in their history. Now, they're just slouching their way out of Bethlehem.

That's a really great point. I'm not sure we would ever have had the deluxe Tusk/Mirage/Tango sets had the record companies not been involved, it's not like they could of collectively agreed to do anything on their own!

Speaking of missed opportunities: I'll always be bummed that they never tried to do a limited theatre run with a really scaled-back, almost unplugged set. Ever since that acoustic version of Gypsy in 2000, I've wanted to hear more. Lindsey already had a jump start with all of the guitar instrumentals he recorded that were played as house music before shows. It's not like they didn't have enough material to make it work.

[Ulpian]

That's a really great point. I'm not sure we would ever have had the deluxe Tusk/Mirage/Tango sets had the record companies not been involved, it's not like they could of collectively agreed to do anything on their own!

Speaking of missed opportunities: I'll always be bummed that they never tried to do a limited theatre run with a really scaled-back, almost unplugged set. Ever since that acoustic version of Gypsy in 2000, I've wanted to hear more. Lindsey already had a jump start with all of the guitar instrumentals he recorded that were played as house music before shows. It's not like they didn't have enough material to make it work.


This last point has been one of my fantasy ideas for them since about 2001. I imagine the Dance lineup in a small theatre, with something like this set list:-

Say You Love Me
Gypsy
Never Going Back Again
Over My Head
Crystal
Big Love
Storms
Blue Letter
I Don’t Want to Know
Caroline
Save Me A Place
Landslide
Oh Daddy
Sara
World Turning
Go Your Own Way
Songbird

:nod:

[jbrownsjr]

This last point has been one of my fantasy ideas for them since about 2001. I imagine the Dance lineup in a small theatre, with something like this set list:-

Say You Love Me
Gypsy
Never Going Back Again
Over My Head
Crystal
Big Love
Storms
Blue Letter
I Don’t Want to Know
Caroline
Save Me A Place
Landslide
Oh Daddy
Sara
World Turning
Go Your Own Way
Songbird

:nod:

That set would be amazing.

[BigAl84]

This last point has been one of my fantasy ideas for them since about 2001. I imagine the Dance lineup in a small theatre, with something like this set list:-

Say You Love Me
Gypsy
Never Going Back Again
Over My Head
Crystal
Big Love
Storms
Blue Letter
I Don’t Want to Know
Caroline
Save Me A Place
Landslide
Oh Daddy
Sara
World Turning
Go Your Own Way
Songbird

:nod:

YES!!! Of all bands that could do a compelling acoustic show, they definitely could have. They have enough material that would easily fit that approach.

[jbrownsjr]

YES!!! Of all bands that could do a compelling acoustic show, they definitely could have. They have enough material that would easily fit that approach.

And all of them would be forced to play or sing without back up.

Something all FIVE of them are afraid to do, for years and years.

[HomerMcvie]

And all of them would be forced to play or sing without back up.

Something all FIVE of them are afraid to do, for years and years.

I was deleting videos from my phone last night, but the one I kept was Stevie ATTEMPTING to sing Edge, when Keith Urban started playing the guitar riff in the middle of his song. It's awful!

[jmn3]

I was deleting videos from my phone last night, but the one I kept was Stevie ATTEMPTING to sing Edge, when Keith Urban started playing the guitar riff in the middle of his song. It's awful!

That was painfully awkward and just shows how these guys have all trained themselves to be part of a show and seemingly have zero ability to just jam/do something off the cuff. Was it during the 2013 tour when something went amiss during the beginning of Tusk and Lindsey not only restarted the song, but had to go back to his original mark on the stage and do his little weird Tusk march/walk thing to the stage edge. They train themselves to perform in their little bubbles and they do it well but they can't just jump on stage and jump into a song that they've sung 1000 times outside of the bubble. I guess it's part of being an old fart...

[HomerMcvie]

That was painfully awkward and just shows how these guys have all trained themselves to be part of a show and seemingly have zero ability to just jam/do something off the cuff. Was it during the 2013 tour when something went amiss during the beginning of Tusk and Lindsey not only restarted the song, but had to go back to his original mark on the stage and do his little weird Tusk march/walk thing to the stage edge. They train themselves to perform in their little bubbles and they do it well but they can't just jump on stage and jump into a song that they've sung 1000 times outside of the bubble. I guess it's part of being an old fart...
Every word.... spot on. They're so used to the MASSIVE PRODUCTION, that they can't just sing a song
I get it. They're 100. What a way to go out. Sucking.

[aleuzzi]

That was painfully awkward and just shows how these guys have all trained themselves to be part of a show and seemingly have zero ability to just jam/do something off the cuff. Was it during the 2013 tour when something went amiss during the beginning of Tusk and Lindsey not only restarted the song, but had to go back to his original mark on the stage and do his little weird Tusk march/walk thing to the stage edge. They train themselves to perform in their little bubbles and they do it well but they can't just jump on stage and jump into a song that they've sung 1000 times outside of the bubble. I guess it's part of being an old fart...

And before the Rumours era, they were very different. Throughout the years, several concert attendees of Mac 1970-74 shows (especially the 1970-72 ones) have remarked how adventurous the music was, and the many opportunities for improvisation, especially in the drumming and guitar work. In 1972, Mick even remarked in an interview that the band was not constrained by a specific setlist and were not forced to always play their songs the same way.

[jbrownsjr]

And before the Rumours era, they were very different. Throughout the years, several concert attendees of Mac 1970-74 shows (especially the 1970-72 ones) have remarked how adventurous the music was, and the many opportunities for improvisation, especially in the drumming and guitar work. In 1972, Mick even remarked in an interview that the band was not constrained by a specific setlist and were not forced to always play their songs the same way.

The progression of their albums and live shows are simply depressing.

[HomerMcvie]

You can't really jam when you're playing with karaoke tracks.

[vivfox]

In 1972, Mick even remarked in an interview that the band was not constrained by a specific setlist and were not forced to always play their songs the same way.

Their live shows were all like (the playing of the songs, not the setlists) that until the Tango Tour. That's when FM became boring live. I don't actually men boring, but it's when the spontaneity was removed from the live setting.