DR documentary makers talk S & L

[bombaysaffires]

The two guys who filmed the Destiny Rules documentary talk about what that experience was like:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdXG_l4Dckl/

According to them it was Lindsey's idea to film the process; they didn't know if Stevie would even participate in recording; they were "like an old married couple" but their tiffs never got particularly big or bad. It's a short audio, little over 5 mins.

[Macfan4life]

I am so glad they filmed it. It does not seem like that long ago but when you watch it, it is a time capsule. The cell phones and cars are so old and they look so young. I loved watching the creative process of everyone involved. It was very Tusk like but maybe with a few more tiffs. Lindsey wanted to put all the creative songs on a double album and everyone punched back wanting only a 10 song commercial disc. I hate the part when Mick tells the camera something like Lindsey is mostly getting his way and if the album bombs and only sells 500k copies, hes going to really hurt. Guess what? The album only sold 500k copies. But that is another thing that makes you realize how old the album is. If an album today sold 500k copies, it would be considered a huge success LOL

[DownOnRodeo]

"We shot like five hundred hours or some crazy amount of film."

The documentary inevitably hones in on the dramatic narratives (the double album thing, the track listing, the mastering).
There's so much footage of music/producing stuff that we don't get to see.

[Macfan4life]

What would we do on this board without that Bob Dylan quote. Its given this board almost 20 years of mileage. For that reason alone, the movie was worth it.

[rhiannondontgo]

Man what I wouldn’t give to watch some more of the unused tape. Especially those hidden night-vision-looking cameras. It was interesting watching SnL interacting alone (and seemingly forgetting the cameras) in the one clip where he’s going on about the double album and saying what this means to him and then dabbing at tears.

I also always wondered why they cut out whatever argument you see a glimpse of in the Access Hollywood thing where Stevie’s yelling in that very whiney voice “of course you hate it because I wrote it!” or something to that effect. I assume she’s talking about either naming the album SYW or naming the doc DR, but who knows. We never saw the context of that fight and I’d love to see it.

[jbrownsjr]

The one thing I remember is being more excited about the music in this doc. than what actuallY ended up on the album.

I also remember Lindsey trying so hard to keep the project together. He had a vision and did everything possible to try and get that vision out.

The rest of them didn't seem to care about anything but the commerce of it.
I see both sides of this. But, mostly thought LIndsey was treated a bit unfairly at times.

I however just don't think his music is anywhere near cutting edge on this vs. Go Insane album or even Tusk/Law and Order etc. The production also seemed a bit generic to me. This album was kind of a mess, in my opinion.

I also thought it was a lost opportunity for B/N to really collaborate. She's on a different planet with her career compared to where he is. He wants to create and she wants mgmt to maintain her superstar status. PERIOD

[Macfan4life]

Man what I wouldn’t give to watch some more of the unused tape. Especially those hidden night-vision-looking cameras. It was interesting watching SnL interacting alone (and seemingly forgetting the cameras) in the one clip where he’s going on about the double album and saying what this means to him and then dabbing at tears.

I also always wondered why they cut out whatever argument you see a glimpse of in the Access Hollywood thing where Stevie’s yelling in that very whiney voice “of course you hate it because I wrote it!” or something to that effect. I assume she’s talking about either naming the album SYW or naming the doc DR, but who knows. We never saw the context of that fight and I’d love to see it.
Yes I remember that. It also reminds me of another part that was cut from Stevie's VH1 Behind The Music. During the promos Paul Fishkin talked about "near overdoses while on the road." That really peaked my interest but it never appeared in the full segment. Stevie must have had final say.

[bombaysaffires]

"We shot like five hundred hours or some crazy amount of film."

The documentary inevitably hones in on the dramatic narratives (the double album thing, the track listing, the mastering).
There's so much footage of music/producing stuff that we don't get to see.

Man what I wouldn’t give to watch some more of the unused tape. Especially those hidden night-vision-looking cameras. It was interesting watching SnL interacting alone (and seemingly forgetting the cameras) in the one clip where he’s going on about the double album and saying what this means to him and then dabbing at tears.

I also always wondered why they cut out whatever argument you see a glimpse of in the Access Hollywood thing where Stevie’s yelling in that very whiney voice “of course you hate it because I wrote it!” or something to that effect. I assume she’s talking about either naming the album SYW or naming the doc DR, but who knows. We never saw the context of that fight and I’d love to see it.

Yep, so so so much material that would have made a great bonus outtakes extra disc or that they could put out as part of a re-release of it now. But alas..... getting the 5 to agree on much (really it's the 2) nowadays seems highly unlikely....

You do wonder if/when one of the 5 goes, and especially when either or both of the 2 ( S&L) go, whether then some of the unreleased stuff will come out....

[bombaysaffires]

Yes I remember that. It also reminds me of another part that was cut from Stevie's VH1 Behind The Music. During the promos Paul Fishkin talked about "near overdoses while on the road." That really peaked my interest but it never appeared in the full segment. Stevie must have had final say.

Yep, one of the most honest bits....so of course it was cut.

But if you go back and look at pics from that time period, there are any number of pics of her out at events and whatnot where she's got 2 people, one on either side of her, basically holding her upright while trying to make it look like they aren't. Often one would be Lori.

[elle]

I however just don't think his music is anywhere near cutting edge on this vs. Go Insane album or even Tusk/Law and Order etc. The production also seemed a bit generic to me. This album was kind of a mess, in my opinion.
yeah your opinion is null and void mister :p :angel:

he was at his musical peak at the time. I will never ever get over that fact that the amazing most fantastic album ever by a FM member that was gonna be original Gift of Screws got watered down and drawn in the mess that's Say You Will. it's such a shame.

I also thought it was a lost opportunity for B/N to really collaborate. She's on a different planet with her career compared to where he is. He wants to create and she wants mgmt to maintain her superstar status. PERIOD
i did think it was interesting that she already then didn't want to join and they were thinking will she or won't she. guess nothing really changed since, just became a downward spiral. even then she was focused on solely her name and how to become a legend in capital letters that she now 20 years later finally seems to have accomplished, while the rest of them were all band first.

[DownOnRodeo]

What would we do on this board without that Bob Dylan quote. Its given this board almost 20 years of mileage. For that reason alone, the movie was worth it.

You wouldn't say that to Jim Jarmusch!

[HomerMcvie]

What would we do on this board without that Bob Dylan quote. Its given this board almost 20 years of mileage. For that reason alone, the movie was worth it.

It truly showed us(the way)what an egotistical gas bag $he is.

[elle]

The two guys who filmed the Destiny Rules documentary talk about what that experience was like:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdXG_l4Dckl/

According to them it was Lindsey's idea to film the process; they didn't know if Stevie would even participate in recording; they were "like an old married couple" but their tiffs never got particularly big or bad. It's a short audio, little over 5 mins.

just now realized that the link is not to the original interview, and that insta post never credited where they ripped the audio from so here's the original podcast link:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Duvall Nation!Episode 56 is Live! Kyle Einhorn &amp; Matt Baumann discuss the <a href="https://twitter.com/fleetwoodmac?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@fleetwoodmac</a> documentary Destiny Rules.Stories of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/lindseybuckingham?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#lindseybuckingham</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StevieNicks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StevieNicks</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/LBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@LBuckingham</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/StevieNicks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@StevieNicks</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FleetwoodMac?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FleetwoodMac</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PodNation?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PodNation</a> <br>Promo: <a href="https://twitter.com/Infectious_Pod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Infectious_Pod</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KatieKinder1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KatieKinder1</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/10ishPod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@10ishPod</a><a href="https://t.co/hkTqpgpZZr">https://t.co/hkTqpgpZZr</a> <a href="https://t.co/McSpAKNKzI">pic.twitter.com/McSpAKNKzI</a></p>&mdash; The Derek Duvall Show (@derekduvallshow) <a href="https://twitter.com/derekduvallshow/status/1523638612813750273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DownOnRodeo]

Five hundred hours of footage of them recording an album.

All we got was one hour of Karen lounging around patting Yorkshire terriers, Mick undressing, Stevie being outsung by a fish, Lindsey haplessly pursuing a completely different project to what the rest are interested in, and John spluttering to get a word in edgewise.

[bombaysaffires]

just now realized that the link is not to the original interview, and that insta post never credited where they ripped the audio from so here's the original podcast link:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Duvall Nation!Episode 56 is Live! Kyle Einhorn &amp; Matt Baumann discuss the <a href="https://twitter.com/fleetwoodmac?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@fleetwoodmac</a> documentary Destiny Rules.Stories of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/lindseybuckingham?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#lindseybuckingham</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StevieNicks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StevieNicks</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/LBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@LBuckingham</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/StevieNicks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@StevieNicks</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FleetwoodMac?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FleetwoodMac</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PodNation?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PodNation</a> <br>Promo: <a href="https://twitter.com/Infectious_Pod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Infectious_Pod</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KatieKinder1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KatieKinder1</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/10ishPod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@10ishPod</a><a href="https://t.co/hkTqpgpZZr">https://t.co/hkTqpgpZZr</a> <a href="https://t.co/McSpAKNKzI">pic.twitter.com/McSpAKNKzI</a></p>&mdash; The Derek Duvall Show (@derekduvallshow) <a href="https://twitter.com/derekduvallshow/status/1523638612813750273?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

thanks for tracking that down, elle. Credit should indeed be given where it is due!

[elle]

thanks for tracking that down, elle. Credit should indeed be given where it is due!
it's also longer than 5 mins.

[bombaysaffires]

it's also longer than 5 mins.

Yes, I was going to post that it runs almost half an hour. :thumbsup:

In the full version, they talk about John-- him being the quietest one, not rude or un-involved, just not flashy and talky. They were concerned about making sure he was adequately represented in the film.

500+ hours of footage. Lindsey had stopped by their editing place a few times and saw some bits and critiqued their editing.:shocked: They finally got it down to over 2 hrs, and showed it to Lindsey by himself first, and were really nervous about how he would respond to things they captured, his and Stevie's bickering, or things Mick had said... and when it ended, there was a long silence, and they were afraid to look at him... and finally he said "Well, I think it's effing brilliant."

After the rest of the band saw it they didn't change too much; Mick was fine with it, John didn't care what they included, Stevie liked it but asked for some small changes which they made (they don't say what).

Host asks them about their reaction to Lindsey's firing. Both said "not surprised in the slightest". One of them said "it sounded like just another day at the office for them." They are hoping the 5 will get back together one more time and believe it will happen post Covid.

[BigAl84]

I think their view of the project has softened as more time has passed. Quite a while ago, 7-10 years ago folks had asked them on facebook about the project and they seemed to indicate that there was a lot of drama left on the cutting room floor. I'm assuming that a lot of Stevie's edits were most likely confrontations or drama that she felt didn't portray her the way she would like.

There are at least two known conflicts that were not shown:
1. "Of course you don't like it, I wrote it"
2. The sequencing of the album while Stevie was on vacation.

They're both smart enough to make sure they don't say anything to get on Irving's radar.

A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

As others have said, it is shocking how young they appear at 55 compared to 73.

[DownOnRodeo]

A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

I don't think there would be footage of recording Come or Murrow, as they were recorded earlier in the 90s as a separate project and used on SYW pretty much as is. But I was thinking the same thing, because those earlier recorded Lindsey contributions are some of my favorite tracks on SYW.

The album is such a mish-mash of content.
It would have been fun if they'd split the tracks over two albums, something like this:

Album 1 (edgier/political)

1 "Red Rover" Buckingham 3:58
2 "Illume (9-11)" Stevie Nicks 4:51
3 "Murrow Turning Over in His Grave" Buckingham 4:12
4 "Peacekeeper" Buckingham 4:11
5 "Smile at You" Nicks 4:33
6 "What's the World Coming To?" Buckingham, Raymond 3:48
7 "Everybody Finds Out" Nicks, Nowels 4:29
8 "Come" Buckingham, Heywood 5:59
9 "Running Through the Garden" Nicks, Kennedy, Nicholson 4:34
10 "Goodbye Baby" Nicks 3:52

Album 2 (easy listening)

1 "Destiny Rules" Nicks 4:26
2 "Bleed to Love Her" Buckingham 4:06
3 "Not Make Believe" Nicks 4:28
4 "Miranda" Buckingham 4:18
5 "Thrown Down" Nicks 4:02
6 "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" Dylan 4:11
7 "Say You Will" Nicks 3:49
8 "Steal Your Heart Away" Buckingham 3:33
9 "Silver Girl" Nicks 3:59
10 "Say Goodbye" Buckingham 3:26

[jbrownsjr]

yeah your opinion is null and void mister :p :angel:

he was at his musical peak at the time. I will never ever get over that fact that the amazing most fantastic album ever by a FM member that was gonna be original Gift of Screws got watered down and drawn in the mess that's Say You Will. it's such a shame.


i did think it was interesting that she already then didn't want to join and they were thinking will she or won't she. guess nothing really changed since, just became a downward spiral. even then she was focused on solely her name and how to become a legend in capital letters that she now 20 years later finally seems to have accomplished, while the rest of them were all band first.

We agree! SYW is a mess. And we also agree that LB tried to make this a piece of art with zero cooperation (or false cooperation) from any of them. I'm humming the great WTWCT, I Don't Mind. and Peacekeeper as we speak. ;) (all at once!!)

Also, I too wish this cutting edge music would have been on GOS. I disagree that he was peaking with cutting edge material.

Out of The Cradle was the peak for my "voided" opinion.
He thinks playing to a machine is cutting edge. Or, having someone push buttons for samples (on stage) of his guitar licks. Christine pretending to play keys is the new cutting edge. Stevie screeching into a mic on Outside the Rain last weekend is also cutting edge. Maybe it is me. :shocked:

But most importantly, LOVE YOU ELLE!! (and that wasn't sarcasm)

[Villavic]

I never read about whose idea was it, but after all his books, the MF story DVD, etc., I always thought DR was Mick's idea.

[BigAl84]

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

[BigAl84]

I don't think there would be footage of recording Come or Murrow, as they were recorded earlier in the 90s as a separate project and used on SYW pretty much as is. But I was thinking the same thing, because those earlier recorded Lindsey contributions are some of my favorite tracks on SYW.

The album is such a mish-mash of content.
It would have been fun if they'd split the tracks over two albums, something like this:

Album 1 (edgier/political)

1 "Red Rover" Buckingham 3:58
2 "Illume (9-11)" Stevie Nicks 4:51
3 "Murrow Turning Over in His Grave" Buckingham 4:12
4 "Peacekeeper" Buckingham 4:11
5 "Smile at You" Nicks 4:33
6 "What's the World Coming To?" Buckingham, Raymond 3:48
7 "Everybody Finds Out" Nicks, Nowels 4:29
8 "Come" Buckingham, Heywood 5:59
9 "Running Through the Garden" Nicks, Kennedy, Nicholson 4:34
10 "Goodbye Baby" Nicks 3:52

Album 2 (easy listening)

1 "Destiny Rules" Nicks 4:26
2 "Bleed to Love Her" Buckingham 4:06
3 "Not Make Believe" Nicks 4:28
4 "Miranda" Buckingham 4:18
5 "Thrown Down" Nicks 4:02
6 "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" Dylan 4:11
7 "Say You Will" Nicks 3:49
8 "Steal Your Heart Away" Buckingham 3:33
9 "Silver Girl" Nicks 3:59
10 "Say Goodbye" Buckingham 3:26

What SYW lacked that helped Tusk work as a really long album was a stronger mix of slower-paced songs. SYW has a lot of uptempo, aggressive material. Goodbye Baby, Say Goodbye, and Silver Girl are the only ballads on the album. I think the 18 tracks are harder to digest because of this, which is why it already seems more palatable as two albums with ten tracks each. Love Minus Zeo probably would of been a good inclusion to balance things out.

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

[jbrownsjr]

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

Yes!!!!! :thumbsup:

[elle]

I'm humming the great WTWCT, I Don't Mind. and Peacekeeper as we speak. ;) (all at once!!)

Also, I too wish this cutting edge music would have been on GOS. I disagree that he was peaking with cutting edge material.

Out of The Cradle was the peak for my "voided" opinion.
He thinks playing to a machine is cutting edge. Or, having someone push buttons for samples (on stage) of his guitar licks. Christine pretending to play keys is the new cutting edge. Stevie screeching into a mic on Outside the Rain last weekend is also cutting edge. Maybe it is me. :shocked:

But most importantly, LOVE YOU ELLE!! (and that wasn't sarcasm)

all my love right back to you! we just have a completely different taste in music :nod:

anyway - i hate WTWCT from SYW and I Don't Mind from Lindsey Buckingham is the song that has everything i dislike about Lindsey's music making (while song like On The Wrong Side has everything i love about Lindsey's music making!).

i don't think OOTC is edgy. i think Come / Murrow / Red Rover were different and interesting, and definitely edgier than general middle of the road soft rock Mac music. i don't see any of the Mac members music as edgy, but LB is more towards that end in some periods than other writers. and i am not saying 90s / original Gift of Screws period is Lindsey's "edgiest" period. i'm saying that he was at his creative peak at the time.

Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her are not edgy or up-tempo songs.

[elle]

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

wait, wasn't the opening track on DR actual Destiny Rules guitar parts?

i do love that guitar, and also their jamming at the opening of the doc.

[BigAl84]

As I'm thinking about SYW more...perhaps what I crave the most when listening to it is simplicity. A reprieve. That touch of simplicity really only occurs during Say Goodbye and Goodbye Baby.

[UnwindedDreams]

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.

Curious about your unfinished feeling. Is it because there aren't many verses? I think the best part of that song is John.

[HomerMcvie]

Even though a lot of Lindsey's material was essentially "In the can" I have a hard time believing that there wasn't some level of adjustments/tweaking that took place in 2002.

20 years later and I'm still itching to hear whatever that awesome uptempo dobro track that Lindsey and Mick were jamming on at the beginning of the documentary.

Agreed. I love the sound of that song, and that guitar. I'd love to know if it ever became a finished song. I'm pretty sure this is the model of guitar.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125205002362?hash=item1d26ccb87a&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAABALYx47FJ6mnPiwey8QUre%252FBrahwzMRKB1y1ppCIUbTz%252BsC1oBlqKCbjZ7HCdWEiJGFMQmHa L2Y%252F%252B%252F0S%252BD2mx1RUs95jvN74qw5c%252Fc2W4F43uunnDF5EG2CwzRyooH4%252FGH3STNECOlIHiGMX94cP CMSUw8zh8i%252BK3ZXsAOSVai9JKFvL4km7vMq3T8%252BxpDw0ybzsH28M%252Bl9fsRvGcWQsb8sxHa7sSwTJ%252FytCDijj 8raoaiAIS%252BGWFVDLE8agUGL0PwCgWv51CDOZ%252BfpbOztzFvBz8Bcl%252FatkzvJVoKPln7nOcFsG86M9W9V9GM0iQmQI X42UFqWbJ1N6ZT7kFkn2iaxw%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK

[Macfan4life]

What SYW lacked that helped Tusk work as a really long album was a stronger mix of slower-paced songs. SYW has a lot of uptempo, aggressive material. Goodbye Baby, Say Goodbye, and Silver Girl are the only ballads on the album. I think the 18 tracks are harder to digest because of this, which is why it already seems more palatable as two albums with ten tracks each. Love Minus Zeo probably would of been a good inclusion to balance things out.

Not Make Believe always felt unfinished to me and definitely not one of Stevie's stronger tracks. It's still great that it was released as a bonus track. My own preference would be to swap it out with a different Stevie track.
I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:
As long as you're the authority....ON EVERYTHING.:p

FM BLOWS GOATS WITHOUT CHRISTINE. She's what made the threesome WORK. She balanced out the ditz and the weirdo.

SYW would have been much more palatable if they'd pared that elephant down to a circus monkey. A 10 banana circus monkey. It's too long, with too many Silver Girls. It's NOT A FUN ALBUM.

By comparison, BuckVie is a f*cking HOOT. It's oozing fun!

[BigAl84]

I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:

Oh I don't disagree with any of your points here, I agree! I love the sheer amount of rockers on the album. I think the album just has pacing issues because of it, which might be why people find it hard to digest.

[Macfan4life]

As long as you're the authority....ON EVERYTHING.:p

FM BLOWS GOATS WITHOUT CHRISTINE. She's what made the threesome WORK. She balanced out the ditz and the weirdo.

SYW would have been much more palatable if they'd pared that elephant down to a circus monkey. A 10 banana circus monkey. It's too long, with too many Silver Girls. It's NOT A FUN ALBUM.

By comparison, BuckVie is a f*cking HOOT. It's oozing fun!
You are 100% correct. Fleetwood Mac is Christine McVie. I only bought their albums post 1970 when she was in the band. She is the soul of the band. She cannot be replaced. I was not excited when SYW was coming out for these reasons. I hated Stevie's 2001 Trouble In Shanrgi-la album and IMHO its her second worst solo album. Most songs are so boring and there is not much music to the tracks. Many of them have the same beat and mood. I did buy SYW when it came out and it was good to meh. It wasn't until I listened to it more that I discovered its brilliance. Remember portable CD players. I used to run a lot in 2003 and I would run down Ocean Drive every night to this CD. I love every song on the album and can hear and appreciate the coloring Lindsey put on every song. I did not like Tango....too programmed. Too synth pop.....too slick ….fake voices programmed bass, etc. BTM was good and at least all songs were real instruments. But Stevie's songs were horrible and the new guys were meh at best. SYW is just as good as Tusk IMHO. Of course Christine would have made it so much better. But she was not there so you cant get everything you want. Buck/Vie is just as good if not better. Its warm and peppy and I prefer Chris to Stevie so that is maybe why I like it more. However, SYW is deep which is something I would not say about other Fleetwood Mac albums except maybe Future Games or Mystery To Me. Its a work of art and I appreciate it and glad they did it. Some of you guys bash the album as an oversight in their career almost wishing they did not record it. Musically, its one of their best albums. A Fleetwood Mac album with more than simple pop songs. Now THAT is something to cherish. But look who I am talking to. You don't appreciate the magic of the Oh Daddy track. :eek:

[bombaysaffires]

I never read about whose idea was it, but after all his books, the MF story DVD, etc., I always thought DR was Mick's idea.

according to the filmmakers, it was Lindsey. One of the guys has a relative whose kids attended the same school as Lindsey's kids, and that guy met LB at a kid's birthday party at the relative's house. And that's where the conversations started about filming. From there the guy and his biz partner were asked to meet and present some of their stuff etc. (at meeting they where they say they thought they didn't present themselves well and thought they'd lost the gig).:shrug:

But he later called them and offered it to them. It would be interesting to know how the discussions/negotiations with the other band members went over it. Although they've filmed themselves recording other projects so that wouldn't have been a new idea.

[bombaysaffires]

I think their view of the project has softened as more time has passed. Quite a while ago, 7-10 years ago folks had asked them on facebook about the project and they seemed to indicate that there was a lot of drama left on the cutting room floor. I'm assuming that a lot of Stevie's edits were most likely confrontations or drama that she felt didn't portray her the way she would like.

There are at least two known conflicts that were not shown:
1. "Of course you don't like it, I wrote it"
2. The sequencing of the album while Stevie was on vacation.

They're both smart enough to make sure they don't say anything to get on Irving's radar.

A directors cut/box set release for the 20th Anniversary of Say You Will would be amazing, but that will never happen. Even if they left some of the drama out but included more footage of them working on Come, Murrow, Smile At You etc would be cool to see.

As others have said, it is shocking how young they appear at 55 compared to 73.

Agreed there has to be lots of juicy stuff left out. They did say that the rights to it belonged to the band or Warner's (they weren't sure) but def not with them so they had no say in putting more out, or putting out blu ray or any of that. Agree that Irving and team won't let anything out that would tarnish the Legend's image at this stage. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some LB snark/eye rolls got left out too. :eek:

One thing I felt they soft-soaped was Sheryl Crow's bit. They said that she unilaterally decided after doing keyboards on one song (Say You Will I think right?) she decided it wasn't a good fit or something. When we know LB was not a big fan of it at all and one would imagine didn't mince words in expressing this to the band..:shrug: He certainly said it in a few interviews.

Totally agree with everyone mentioning that opening bit of music!!!:woohoo:

[HomerMcvie]

You are 100% correct. Fleetwood Mac is Christine McVie. I only bought their albums post 1970 when she was in the band. She is the soul of the band. She cannot be replaced. I was not excited when SYW was coming out for these reasons. I hated Stevie's 2001 Trouble In Shanrgi-la album and IMHO its her second worst solo album. Most songs are so boring and there is not much music to the tracks. Many of them have the same beat and mood. I did buy SYW when it came out and it was good to meh. It wasn't until I listened to it more that I discovered its brilliance. Remember portable CD players. I used to run a lot in 2003 and I would run down Ocean Drive every night to this CD. I love every song on the album and can hear and appreciate the coloring Lindsey put on every song. I did not like Tango....too programmed. Too synth pop.....too slick ….fake voices programmed bass, etc. BTM was good and at least all songs were real instruments. But Stevie's songs were horrible and the new guys were meh at best. SYW is just as good as Tusk IMHO. Of course Christine would have made it so much better. But she was not there so you cant get everything you want. Buck/Vie is just as good if not better. Its warm and peppy and I prefer Chris to Stevie so that is maybe why I like it more. However, SYW is deep which is something I would not say about other Fleetwood Mac albums except maybe Future Games or Mystery To Me. Its a work of art and I appreciate it and glad they did it. Some of you guys bash the album as an oversight in their career almost wishing they did not record it. Musically, its one of their best albums. A Fleetwood Mac album with more than simple pop songs. Now THAT is something to cherish. But look who I am talking to. You don't appreciate the magic of the Oh Daddy track. :eek:

We agree 100% on the initial point.

SYW as good as Tusk?:lol::lol::lol:

Again, IF it had been pared down to 10 songs, it would've been easier to swallow. AND, $tevie's songs should have a time limit(I say this about every Dead/jam band as well). 4 minutes Old Goat, and your droning dirge is over. Hell, I'd support a 3:30 limit on her songs. Just like when $he babbles ON and ON onstage, $he just has NO IDEA OF WHEN TO STFU.
"I love hearing myself drone on and on, and so does the world!". No $tevie, we don't. STFU.

Oh Daddy? You're still beatin' that horse? It's been dried up glue for a couple of years now...

[bombaysaffires]

We agree 100% on the initial point.

SYW as good as Tusk?:lol::lol::lol:

Again, IF it had been pared down to 10 songs, it would've been easier to swallow. AND, $tevie's songs should have a time limit(I say this about every Dead/jam band as well). 4 minutes Old Goat, and your droning dirge is over. Hell, I'd support a 3:30 limit on her songs. Just like when $he babbles ON and ON onstage, $he just has NO IDEA OF WHEN TO STFU.
"I love hearing myself drone on and on, and so does the world!". No $tevie, we don't. STFU.

Oh Daddy? You're still beatin' that horse? It's been dried up glue for a couple of years now...

How long did she run on and on at MusicCares?? :eek:

[Macfan4life]

We agree 100% on the initial point.

SYW as good as Tusk?:lol::lol::lol:

Again, IF it had been pared down to 10 songs, it would've been easier to swallow. AND, $tevie's songs should have a time limit(I say this about every Dead/jam band as well). 4 minutes Old Goat, and your droning dirge is over. Hell, I'd support a 3:30 limit on her songs. Just like when $he babbles ON and ON onstage, $he just has NO IDEA OF WHEN TO STFU.
"I love hearing myself drone on and on, and so does the world!". No $tevie, we don't. STFU.

Oh Daddy? You're still beatin' that horse? It's been dried up glue for a couple of years now...
Who cares what's easier to swallow. You act like a Fleetwood Mac album is a poison pill or something. Commercially, YES the cheezy critics may have liked it more. However is this not a board with Fleetwood Mac fans that likes all sort of tracks whether commercial, non commercial or unconventional? I am with Lindsey on this one. I consider the album a piece of art and I appreciate the additional tracks. You sound just like Stevie in the documentary. Your story is her story.
And another thing......Come is better than Not That Funny. Put that in your top hat and scarf and smoke it.
Lindsey's guitar playing does not offend me nor should he have to apologize for it.

[HomerMcvie]

How long did she run on and on at MusicCares?? :eek:

At least long enough for waltzes and excessive smirking.

[HomerMcvie]

Who cares what's easier to swallow. You act like a Fleetwood Mac album is a poison pill or something. Commercially, YES the cheezy critics may have liked it more. However is this not a board with Fleetwood Mac fans that likes all sort of tracks whether commercial, non commercial or unconventional? I am with Lindsey on this one. I consider the album a piece of art and I appreciate the additional tracks. You sound just like Stevie in the documentary. Your story is her story.
And another thing......Come is better than Not That Funny. Put that in your top hat and scarf and smoke it.
Lindsey's guitar playing does not offend me nor should he have to apologize for it.
Well, there's no accounting for taste...as long as you realize you're in the minority.:lol:

NTF isn't one of my favorites. I've never understood why Lindsey loves it so.

[DownOnRodeo]

<a href="https://ibb.co/tDM3WJW"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DQDLSRS/Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429" border="0"></a>

John and Mick after listening to the demo of Silver Girl.

"...."

[HomerMcvie]

<a href="https://ibb.co/tDM3WJW"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DQDLSRS/Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429" border="0"></a>

John and Mick after listening to the demo of Silver Girl.

"...."

"god, what do we do with this piece of sh*t?"

[SteveMacD]

<a href="https://ibb.co/tDM3WJW"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DQDLSRS/Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429" border="0"></a>

“We had Peter Green in the band…”

[Macfan4life]

"god, what do we do with this piece of sh*t?"
Silver Girl is ten times better than Think About Me and you know it

[jbrownsjr]

Upon my first listen of SYW, I thought Mick and John shine the most. Some killer bass on this.

[jbrownsjr]

<a href="https://ibb.co/tDM3WJW"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DQDLSRS/Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-12-091429" border="0"></a>

John and Mick after listening to the demo of Silver Girl.

"...."

John: I'm not telling her it's whiny crap like nails on a chalkboard. I don't really care that much.
Mick: Why do I always have to be the d***?
John: Because it suits you.

[jbrownsjr]

As long as you're the authority....ON EVERYTHING.:p

FM BLOWS GOATS WITHOUT CHRISTINE. She's what made the threesome WORK. She balanced out the ditz and the weirdo.

SYW would have been much more palatable if they'd pared that elephant down to a circus monkey. A 10 banana circus monkey. It's too long, with too many Silver Girls. It's NOT A FUN ALBUM.

By comparison, BuckVie is a f*cking HOOT. It's oozing fun!

:xoxo::xoxo::xoxo::xoxo::xoxo:

[bombaysaffires]

Upon my first listen of SYW, I thought Mick and John shine the most. Some killer bass on this.

This board needs a "Like" button so I could use it here.

[jbrownsjr]

This board needs a "Like" button so I could use it here.

I'll have Homer install it. :laugh::wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

Silver Girl is ten times better than Think About Me and you know it

Don't be redickerous. Your delusions of love are showing.

[Macfan4life]

Upon my first listen of SYW, I thought Mick and John shine the most. Some killer bass on this.
Yes yes yes! Of course! I love it when Fleetwood Mac jams and is free to be. Christine would have really added so much. However, IMHO the band was playing extra hard knowing Christine's absence was impacting their sound. There are so many layers on SYW. Like Tusk, the album is a journey and the music is unleashed from a typical Mac performance.

[HomerMcvie]

I'll have Homer install it. :laugh::wavey:

I'll install it in a very special location.:D

[jbrownsjr]

i'll install it in a very special location.:d

i don't wanna know!!

[HomerMcvie]

i don't wanna know!!

Stick your hand inside my glove.







:lol:

[DownOnRodeo]

Better they had done a new studio recording of Sweet Girl and put that on the album instead of Silver Girl. Granted it wouldn't sound as sweet without Christine's harmonies though.

[jbrownsjr]

Better they had done a new studio recording of Sweet Girl and put that on the album instead of Silver Girl. Granted it wouldn't sound as sweet without Christine's harmonies though.

She stopped dancing across the stages of the world, back then.

[DownOnRodeo]

She stopped dancing across the stages of the world, back then.

Crossing some cozy county line somewhere.

[jbrownsjr]

Crossing some cozy county line somewhere.

She was walking on the shores of Gitche Gumee for a bit.

[bombaysaffires]

She was walking on the shores of Gitche Gumee for a bit.

taking a Bad Journey.

[jbrownsjr]

taking a Bad Journey.

in a funny little white car...

[DownOnRodeo]

<a href="https://ibb.co/5rHyPfy"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/gSKpxBp/Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820" border="0"></a>

[HomerMcvie]

<a href="https://ibb.co/5rHyPfy"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/gSKpxBp/Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820" border="0"></a>

I love it! Straight to my archives with this one!

[jbrownsjr]

It says check the tail lights! One must be broken!

[aleuzzi]

<a href="https://ibb.co/5rHyPfy"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/gSKpxBp/Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820.jpg" alt="Screenshot-2022-05-14-114820" border="0"></a>

Okay, I laughed out loud. Great little collage.

Re: SYW—it IS a mess. But it’s an interesting mess, like coming upon a shipwreck and finding all kinds of treasure strewn everywhere on board. I’m glad it sprawls, that it feels bulky and uneven. It’s also occasionally dull. Both writers are to blame. But it has some incredibly interesting high points. Lindsey comes off better, for the most part. Red Rover and Say Goodbye are among my favorite songs of his, both finger-picking masterpieces. Miranda and Murrow are clever variations on the ISA and Big Love idioms, respectively. But Come is indulgent and WTWCT a turd presented as if it were a classic.

Stevie’s contributions are equally mixed. Silver Girl makes Welcome to the Room, Sara sound positively energizing. But illume intrigues me. Throw Down, Everybody Finds Out, and Destiny Rules are excellent. The title track makes for great shopping-at-Walmart accompaniment.

Their harmonies sound terribly nasal and harsh sans Christine.

[jbrownsjr]

Okay, I laughed out loud. Great little collage.

Re: SYW—it IS a mess. But it’s an interesting mess, like coming upon a shipwreck and finding all kinds of treasure strewn everywhere on board. I’m glad it sprawls, that it feels bulky and uneven. It’s also occasionally dull. Both writers are to blame. But it has some incredibly interesting high points. Lindsey comes off better, for the most part. Red Rover and Say Goodbye are among my favorite songs of his, both finger-picking masterpieces. Miranda and Murrow are clever variations on the ISA and Big Love idioms, respectively. But Come is indulgent and WTWCT a turd presented as if it were a classic.

Stevie’s contributions are equally mixed. Silver Girl makes Welcome to the Room, Sara sound positively energizing. But illume intrigues me. Throw Down, Everybody Finds Out, and Destiny Rules are excellent. The title track makes for great shopping-at-Walmart accompaniment.

Their harmonies sound terribly nasal and harsh sans Christine.

Best review I've read. I do love the finger picking LB. It really helps cure the dull of this album. His guitar on Illume is haunting to me: nice timbre on the strums.

[jmn3]

The album is way too long and the lack of Christine was always the biggest issue. I think it could have been a lot better if they cut at least 8 songs out.

As for the documentary, I can't even imagine having to be on the crew having to produce anything with this group of people. Lindsey and Stevie acting like they're still in high school all of the time. Mick rambling incessant word salads every single day. John just sitting there like a bump on a log. Ugh, trying to make that interesting and watchable could cause you to have an aneurysm.

[jbrownsjr]

The album is way too long and the lack of Christine was always the biggest issue. I think it could have been a lot better if they cut at least 8 songs out.

As for the documentary, I can't even imagine having to be on the crew having to produce anything with this group of people. Lindsey and Stevie acting like they're still in high school all of the time. Mick rambling incessant word salads every single day. John just sitting there like a bump on a log. Ugh, trying to make that interesting and watchable could cause you to have an aneurysm.

Even since you brought up "word salads" a few months ago. I can't listen to him talk anymore. It's like nails on a chalkboard. He and Stevie are like robots when speaking. And Mick is like a mal-functioning robot.
I was kind of happy that Christine told the truth about them touring. Even though, she was slapped by Karen later on.

[jmn3]

Even since you brought up "word salads" a few months ago. I can't listen to him talk anymore. It's like nails on a chalkboard. He and Stevie are like robots when speaking. And Mick is like a mal-functioning robot.
I was kind of happy that Christine told the truth about them touring. Even though, she was slapped by Karen later on.

I know this is a phenomenon that is applicable to most, but if you typed out what Mick says verbatim in these interviews and then tried to reread it....holy hell. He IS a malfunctioning word salad robot!!

Stevie says what she thinks her audience wants to hear. It's usually nonsensical BS that doesn't even really align with whatever point she's trying to make. It's why I could never stand her stage speeches. Lindsey's speeches were always philosophical nonsense but I actually could sit there going, this goofball stoner really believes in whatever the hell he just said. When she gets on stage and starts introducing Gypsy with buzzwords - "1968!" "VELVET UNDERGROUND!!" "SAN FRANCISSSSCOOOOOO!!!" - designed to generate applause from boomers and those in the audience who think they should have been alive to live in 1968 San Francisco....like, come on lady, this speech has gone on longer than the song will.

[jmn3]

I was kind of happy that Christine told the truth about them touring. Even though, she was slapped by Karen later on.

Poor dumb Christine. She finally found her backbone and then she immediately got bitch slapped back to reality by the Queen's Guard and had it taken once again - this time permanently.

[jbrownsjr]

Poor dumb Christine. She finally found her backbone and then she immediately got bitch slapped back to reality by the Queen's Guard and had it taken once again - this time permanently.

My thoughts exactly. She's no longer a force in the gang. Just a robot with unplugged keys.

[worldturning75]

Reading this thread makes me want to find my Say You Will DVD-A disc buried somewhere in a box in the basement since probably 2014.

I was not a big fan of the SYW music itself except for Steal Your Heart Away and maybe a couple of other songs, but the 5.1 mix was above average and I think I actually liked some of the songs better when I heard the 5.1 mix.

[HomerMcvie]

Poor dumb Christine. She finally found her backbone and then she immediately got bitch slapped back to reality by the Queen's Guard and had it taken once again - this time permanently.

It's $tevie Nick's Official Fajita Roundup for the past few years. There's no going back. They're older than dirt now, anyway. What a sad ending. At least Mick thinks they went out on top.

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T.

RIP FM.

[michelej1]

Even since you brought up "word salads" a few months ago. I can't listen to him talk anymore. It's like nails on a chalkboard. He and Stevie are like robots when speaking. And Mick is like a mal-functioning robot.
I was kind of happy that Christine told the truth about them touring. Even though, she was slapped by Karen later on.

I was reading the Sammy Hagar thread and realized that Mick has been making that “we’re not dead yet” joke for the last 20 years.

[michelej1]

Yep, so so so much material that would have made a great bonus outtakes extra disc or that they could put out as part of a re-release of it now. But alas..... getting the 5 to agree on much (really it's the 2) nowadays seems highly unlikely....

You do wonder if/when one of the 5 goes, and especially when either or both of the 2 ( S&L) go, whether then some of the unreleased stuff will come out....

I would think if Stevie passed away, Mick would start putting out her unreleased stuff to capitalize on her “legend” status. There would be a clamor for unreleased Stevie music for a few weeks. So, if FM owns the unreleased stuff, we’d hear it then.

If Lindsey passed away, there wouldn’t be that demand.

[michelej1]

As others have said, it is shocking how young they appear at 55 compared to 73.

The funny thing is, I remember comparing the change in their looks then to how they looked during The Dance and feeling that they were looking old, then.

Needless to say, my own perspective on what “old” is has changed a lot since 2003.

In fact, my mother is 85 now and many of the residents in her assisted living center are older than she is. There are 95 year olds going on nature hikes and I find myself being jealous and saying, “Why are they in such better health, when she’s younger!” As if I feel like she should still be kicking up her heels at 85. Biddy envy, I suppose.

[michelej1]

“We had Peter Green in the band…”

That’s hysterical. Poor John and Mick.

Actually, I’d like to see all the documentary outtakes that contained John and forget the rest of them. I know enough about the rest of them.

[michelej1]

I agree with what you write but for opposite reasons. I like the uptempo SYW songs. SYW is pure Lindsey and I dont understand the hate the album gets on this board. Its nothing short of brilliant. There is so much creativity on this album it blows me away. You get raw oddities like Illume and tremendous rockers like Everybody Finds Out. The Mac has never jammed like that before. You also get delicious pop songs like Thrown Down and a very good Running Through The Garden. IMHO people dont like it because it was not commercially successful. One thing I noticed about this board is the more successful the album is commercially, the more love it gets here. Of course Christine is missing and that would have improved the album. But for the love of God, we all bitch about wanting new music and creative stuff. SYW was that answer yet people hate it, I dont get it. We all wanted them to dive deep into creating creative music without the pressure of pop charts and SYW was that answer. The same people who praise Tusk for its coldness and aloofness criticize SYW for its coldness :lol:

You had me until you ran through that garden.

In the DR when Lindsey was crying or pretending to cry or doing whatever the heck he was doing and Stevie was awkwardly twirling her hair (like, “oh geez, this is TMI"), he also mentioned John. He said something like, “and John the way he is now.” I wanted some clarification on that point. I wanted to hear his full thought.

[michelej1]

Better they had done a new studio recording of Sweet Girl and put that on the album instead of Silver Girl. Granted it wouldn't sound as sweet without Christine's harmonies though.

Or Sad Girl. I’m sure Stevie has a Sad Girl demo lying around somewhere.

[Macfan4life]

You had me until you ran through that garden.

In the DR when Lindsey was crying or pretending to cry or doing whatever the heck he was doing and Stevie was awkwardly twirling her hair (like, “oh geez, this is TMI), he also mentioned John. He said something like, “and John the way he is now.” I wanted some clarification on that point. I wanted to hear his full thought.
I'm sorry but there are too many flowers to cut down.
Someone had to do it.

[SteveMacD]

You had me until you ran through that garden.

In the DR when Lindsey was crying or pretending to cry or doing whatever the heck he was doing and Stevie was awkwardly twirling her hair (like, “oh geez, this is TMI"), he also mentioned John. He said something like, “and John the way he is now.” I wanted some clarification on that point. I wanted to hear his full thought.

Here’s something I hadn’t seen before that came across a few days ago. (https://www.reddit.com/r/FleetwoodMac/comments/ungr96/interesting_passage_in_book_fleetwood_mac_faq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)

[rhiannondontgo]

Interesting. I hadn’t seen this before either. I wonder what Richard (and Stevie) are talking about on the second page: Like what did Lindsey do to them? What a strange story.

[SteveMacD]

Interesting. I hadn’t seen this before either. I wonder what Richard (and Stevie) are talking about on the second page: Like what did Lindsey do to them? What a strange story.

He was probably extremely rigid and “prickly.”

[sleepless child]

I kind of look at the situation back then as Lindsey probably being the most sober of everyone there. And trying like hell to herd the "gaggle of cats" to make some music.

Mick was heavy into cocaine and partying all night. Richard was his sidekick. Ken admits to using a lot of cocaine and just trying to stay awake from the group coming in at all hours of the day and night to work.

Chris drank a lot and partied. We know about John's heavy drinking and of course Stevie. She was not there a lot of the time. She liked to party also.

It would be very frustrating for Lindsey, who wanted to make great music. He probably did come across as cold and mean. I think Stevie has to look at the situation thru his eyes and what he had to deal with. I think they all do.

[elle]

Here’s something I hadn’t seen before that came across a few days ago. (https://www.reddit.com/r/FleetwoodMac/comments/ungr96/interesting_passage_in_book_fleetwood_mac_faq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)

Dashut had a blog for a while, that he later deleted. then he started posting stories like this on his facebook for a while. i think he's probably not posting anything for a number of years now, i think his health was getting worse, and he was also probably getting tired of crazy online "culture."

this was a part of what he posted at the time - i think it was during 2014-15 FM tour. that was still the time when the whole FM tried to get Stevie to join them on the new album. i remember reading this and thinking - wow she really is resisting this new album and trying to blame it all on Lindsey - i mean she's tying to turn even Richard who knows better against Lindsey?!

but John McVie tidbit and him being drunk and a**hole also specifically towards Richard Dashut is interesting. from all the tidbits it very much sounds like both John McVie and Lindsey were in the category of mean drunks. Glad Lindsey doesn't drink anymore, i'm guessing John is not either.

[UnwindedDreams]

I wonder what Richard (and Stevie) are talking about on the second page: Like what did Lindsey do to them? What a strange story.
My guess is Lindsey said to Stevie that she couldn't write a good song or a hit song without help from other musicians, and that she doesn't give them (him) proper songwriting credit. That's my guess for the worst thing Lindsey may've said to her. If he said it, I wouldn't agree with that.

We also see in the DR documentary that Stevie doesn't seem happy Lindsey wanted to leave the tour rehearsal at night to get home to his family; Stevie likes to work at night since she wakes up at 4:00pm. So his road practices probably got to her too.

[aleuzzi]

There’s no question Lindsey has to be tough to work with. It’s hard enough sometimes to listen to his speeches. He has come across in interviews and in the eyes of those around him as controlling, dismissive, and impatient. However, from the very beginning, he was expected to carry a heavier load than all the rest, a thankless load producing songs that made Christine and Stevie celebrated icons. He may have always been a force of nature on stage, but he will never be a draw like the ladies. That had to fuel some resentment.

What’s more, Stevie isn’t a picnic to work with. Just ask any of her solo album producers. Once, when remembering her recording that 1978 duet with Kenny Loggins, she called him a taskmaster and spoke of him rather cooly because he had a vision for how the voices should sound on his song—on his album. She never likes being given direction or criticism.

By many accounts, Christine is a wonderful collaborator, a real team player. But both Welch and Caillat found her sarcastic and unpleasant at times.

So...I guess all of them are hard work. Some far more than others.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm sure Mick is probably the only easy one to work with. John #2. Chris #3.

Stevie and Lindsey are difficult for different reasons.

[aleuzzi]

I'm sure Mick is probably the only easy one to work with. John #2. Chris #3.

Stevie and Lindsey are difficult for different reasons.

That sounds right, though I suppose it depends on who’s talking about John. If, for instance, you’re Richard D, you might say Chris #2 and John #3. John strikes me as being prone to defensiveness and crankiness.

[HomerMcvie]

That sounds right, though I suppose it depends on who’s talking about John. If, for instance, you’re Richard D, you might say Chris #2 and John #3. John strikes me as being prone to defensiveness and crankiness.

Well I've rarely been able to understand what he's saying, so he could be cussing me out, and I might not even know it. :p

[aleuzzi]

Well I've rarely been able to understand what he's saying, so he could be cussing me out, and I might not even know it. :p

Yeah—he’s a real charmer!

[bombaysaffires]

Dashut had a blog for a while, that he later deleted. then he started posting stories like this on his facebook for a while. i think he's probably not posting anything for a number of years now, i think his health was getting worse, and he was also probably getting tired of crazy online "culture."

this was a part of what he posted at the time - i think it was during 2014-15 FM tour. that was still the time when the whole FM tried to get Stevie to join them on the new album. i remember reading this and thinking - wow she really is resisting this new album and trying to blame it all on Lindsey - i mean she's tying to turn even Richard who knows better against Lindsey?!

but John McVie tidbit and him being drunk and a**hole also specifically towards Richard Dashut is interesting. from all the tidbits it very much sounds like both John McVie and Lindsey were in the category of mean drunks. Glad Lindsey doesn't drink anymore, i'm guessing John is not either.

My guess is Lindsey said to Stevie that she couldn't write a good song or a hit song without help from other musicians, and that she doesn't give them (him) proper songwriting credit. That's my guess for the worst thing Lindsey may've said to her. If he said it, I wouldn't agree with that.

We also see in the DR documentary that Stevie doesn't seem happy Lindsey wanted to leave the tour rehearsal at night to get home to his family; Stevie likes to work at night since she wakes up at 4:00pm. So his road practices probably got to her too.

There’s no question Lindsey has to be tough to work with. It’s hard enough sometimes to listen to his speeches. He has come across in interviews and in the eyes of those around him as controlling, dismissive, and impatient. However, from the very beginning, he was expected to carry a heavier load than all the rest, a thankless load producing songs that made Christine and Stevie celebrated icons. He may have always been a force of nature on stage, but he will never be a draw like the ladies. That had to fuel some resentment.

What’s more, Stevie isn’t a picnic to work with. Just ask any of her solo album producers. Once, when remembering her recording that 1978 duet with Kenny Loggins, she called him a taskmaster and spoke of him rather cooly because he had a vision for how the voices should sound on his song—on his album. She never likes being given direction or criticism.

By many accounts, Christine is a wonderful collaborator, a real team player. But both Welch and Caillat found her sarcastic and unpleasant at times.

So...I guess all of them are hard work. Some far more than others.


And before 2014, around the 2012 time frame she didn't even want to tour with them.... that's when Mick whined [to Playboy I think it was] during an interview about it and tried to basically publicly shame her about it, saying things like if FM never toured again it would be her fault etc. Lindsey put it out there in some interview he did at one point also.

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face. He knew the things she was vulnerable about and he went there. Equally bad, he would other times he would treat her like she wasn't there, and just completely and utterly ignore anything she said. There are a few small lapses in the Tusk documentary where this happens. Often he critiqued her songs for valid reasons, but equally he was a dick about it, often just to humiliate her because he could. Not nice. When you understand that layer of their relationship, it puts the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" crap into more context. It was her very clearly signaling to him that she no longer cares what he thinks about her lyrics, because she has a level of success without him and can walk away. I think of that line in Planets of the Universe she wrote about him "you will never rule again/the way you have ruled". Chris wrote about his coldness and moodiness in Over My Head 'then again you can be cold as ice' 'your mood is like a circus wheel/you're changing all the time' 'every day you hurt my pride'. When he thinks he's right and you're wrong, he can treat you like total sh&t on the bottom of his shoe.

Stevie on the other hand was just sooooo full of herself and entirely self-centered. Funny how now she only barely admits to it... she said something about making Bella Donna and finally admitted how she was 'maybe just a teeny bit conceited then'.... There's the understatement of the year. She believed she was the queen of the universe, put here by god to save the world, and the more famous she got and the more drugs she did, the less focused she became on work and the more she just wanted to party and reap all the rewards of success without putting in the effort. She always felt like she could count on him to clean up her songs so all she had to do was show up and sing her bit and then go off with her entourage, exhausted from being in the army and having to show up on time. She believes she's so desirable and charming that she can get all these men to do everything for her (Lindsey, Jimmy, Tom, Mick, etc.).

They are a totally toxic mix, those two.

[UnwindedDreams]

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face. He knew the things she was vulnerable about and he went there. Equally bad, he would other times he would treat her like she wasn't there, and just completely and utterly ignore anything she said. There are a few small lapses in the Tusk documentary where this happens. Often he critiqued her songs for valid reasons, but equally he was a dick about it, often just to humiliate her because he could. Not nice. When you understand that layer of their relationship, it puts the "you wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan" crap into more context. It was her very clearly signaling to him that she no longer cares what he thinks about her lyrics, because she has a level of success without him and can walk away. I think of that line in Planets of the Universe she wrote about him "you will never rule again/the way you have ruled". Chris wrote about his coldness and moodiness in Over My Head 'then again you can be cold as ice' 'your mood is like a circus wheel/you're changing all the time' 'every day you hurt my pride'. When he thinks he's right and you're wrong, he can treat you like total sh&t on the bottom of his shoe.

Great take!!! But you forgot the forcing of the Say You Will sweater:lol:

I wish that video was still around.

[SteveMacD]

I think Lindsey has said some really sh&tty, nasty things to and about Stevie that were deliberately hurtful and to cut her down in front of others. He would do the "bro" thing in the studio with male engineers and co producers and with roadies and such on the road like making mocking comments about her songs, her singing, her performances, her opinions on things, right in front of her face.
Like with “What Makes You Think You’re the One.”

They are a totally toxic mix, those two.
They would have driven McVie to be a heavy drinker if hadn’t been one already.

[HomerMcvie]

You know, if $he didn't act like a complete IDIOT, it would be much more difficult to mock her.

[SteveMacD]

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

[UnwindedDreams]

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?
She knew how to get back at him with that. He also sang that Dylan tune at her Phoenix Trouble in Shangri-La show in 2001.

She could've said You wouldn't say that to Mick Jagger since they recorded I Am Waiting in 2002

[cbBen]

She knew how to get back at him with that. He also sang that Dylan tune at her Phoenix Trouble in Shangri-La show in 2001.

She could've said You wouldn't say that to Mick Jagger since they recorded I Am Waiting in 2002

She was referring to "Tangled Up In Blue," which shifts person and tense in the same way Lindsey was critiquing her song.

[UnwindedDreams]

She was referring to "Tangled Up In Blue," which shifts person and tense in the same way Lindsey was critiquing her song.
Thank you. That's very insightful.

It is interesting to me that she did keep third person for Moonlight (which came after Say You Will) because the original Lady from the Mountains included second person.

[DownOnRodeo]

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

I have always assumed that was the context for her remark.

I have assumed that Stevie didn't want Lindsey's Dylan or Stones covers on the album, for whatever reason, and fair enough too.

When that exchange occured, the question of a double album and which tracks to include had not been finalized.

So it may be that her ire at the potential inclusion of a Dylan track was half of the impetus behind her remark.

Nevertheless, it is fun to ignore such context and imagine that she walks around talking of herself as lyrically on par with Dylan apropos of nothing.:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

It just hit me. Stevie said “You wouldn’t say that to Bob Dylan” and Lindsey recorded “Love Minus Zero/No Limit” for the album.

I wonder if that was coincidence?

Haha! Of all people, I would never have guessed that slipped by you.