Mick Interview on Rumours at 45 Years Old [Archive]

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UnwindedDreams

02-10-2022, 07:39 AM

Macfan4life

02-10-2022, 08:11 AM

https://music.apple.com/us/artist/fleetwood-mac/158038

Why is Apple using the most recent official photo of FM with Lindsey as the page banner? I thought any photos with Stevie touching Lindsey would've been redacted after 2018!

Is this the photo they chose because there isn't any music created by the "current" lineup?
Ha ha but I think it would have been hysterical if the interview and celebration is about Rumours and they show another band :lol: Maybe they can ask Neil about Go Your Own Way :lol:
So I can see why they did that. I did not listen. I think the Rumours stories have been beaten to death. Tell us something new but I think they milked that cow for all its worth. Maybe some of you dont know but making the album was like a soap opera with couples breaking up. OMG :eek:

bwboy

02-10-2022, 08:38 AM

I think the Rumours stories have been beaten to death. Tell us something new but I think they milked that cow for all its worth. Maybe some of you dont know but making the album was like a soap opera with couples breaking up. OMG :eek:

Not everyone is like people on this message board, who can quote interviews with FM members from 1982. We may be sick of hearing these stories, but I think we’re a different breed. Also, plenty of younger folks don’t know the stories and this would be new for them. FM is an unusual story and I understand 100% why their story would come up again for the Rumours anniversary.

Macfan4life

02-10-2022, 08:57 AM

Not everyone is like people on this message board, who can quote interviews with FM members from 1982. We may be sick of hearing these stories, but I think we’re a different breed. Also, plenty of younger folks don’t know the stories and this would be new for them. FM is an unusual story and I understand 100% why their story would come up again for the Rumours anniversary.
During the 20th anniversary Mick revealed he almost gave their coke dealer album credit. Now that was something new. I think even casual fans have heard these stories a million times.

David

02-10-2022, 02:24 PM

I think even casual fans have heard these stories a million times.

Yeah, I think that, by now, everyone who is interested in Fleetwood Mac has heard these stories.

I can’t hear this particular thing because I have no Apple ID, but if anyone wants to share any little tidbits that are topical or unusual, I’m all ears.

I don’t know what might constitute unusual, but . . . you know . . .

Maybe something witty about how the band’s forty-five years of egregious overemphasis on Rumours songs and Rumours lore have turned Fleetwood Mac into Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

elle

02-10-2022, 03:01 PM

Maybe something witty about how the band’s forty-five years of egregious overemphasis on Rumours songs and Rumours lore have turned Fleetwood Mac into Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/mick-fleetwood-reflects-45h-anniversary-rumours-apple-music-1

ARTICLE CONTRIBUTED BY APPLE | PUBLISHED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 2022

All credits to Zane Lowe on Apple Music 1
Mick Fleetwood joins Zane Lowe on Apple Music 1 to discuss the 45th anniversary of Fleetwood Mac's iconic album ‘Rumours’. He tells Apple Music about the band dynamics that shaped the album, reflects on Stevie and Lindsey joining the group and the ongoing complications of their relationship, how the group’s music provided safe harbor from persistent band drama, the benefits of being in a co-ed band, how he sees his role in the group decades later, being an Eminem fan and much more.

Mick Fleetwood Reflects on ‘Rumours’ 45 Years Later…

I didn't really know what was going on until a little while later. And the fact that we're having this conversation 40 odd years later about the same body of work that was created by that line of up with Fleetwood Mac is one I don't think about it until you start talking about it...

I think probably to a large extent to the other band members, a permanent backdrop that has become part of no doubt the fabric of who we are certainly as players and artists, but also the effectual with what it did to us as people through that, the challenges of it, the sociological messes and joys that it brought, all of that are in these collection of songs known as the Rumours album. I think it was a little bit of, for me and John especially, in a way we had our, for us, it was a large tidal wave back in England with the beginnings of Fleetwood Mac in 1967, '68 with Peter Green, where we were the pop boys of certainly down in Australia and the Commonwealth, not over here really at all, apart from some boutique interest in the band, which was demonstrated later by certainly Carlos and people, and the Grateful Dead have definitely heard about the music that we made and apparently loved it.

So when the wave sort of hit, I think me and John, speaking certainly for myself, we'd had some reference to having something, and in truth the wave dissipated before Stevie and Lindsey, although we continued through the Bob Welch year and so forth, and many wonderfully talented people, you could see on a graph that for us, it was just, we were keeping going, we never thought one way or the other. But the truth is we were on a quiet period in terms of success. But me and John had had that shock as really young chaps in England, where we were… Top of the pops and stupid praises, like they're selling more than the Beatles and all this stuff. And therefore took it in our stride a little bit more, I think, I hope. And it certainly helped me until I got super crazy, and substance abuse later on and all that stuff. But in the early days of the band that we're talking about that made that album Rumours, I really felt that that too had helped me say, hang on, hang on. This is all fantastic, but we're doing what we're doing. And it helped certainly from the Peter Green days, we always, especially led by Peter, held onto our integrity as players and really didn't get super caught up in being so-called pop stars, or rock stars, or whatever it is.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham Joining The Group…

One has to quietly remember that John and Chris came at that point as a married couple that were musically connected, which was a reflection certainly God knows of Stevie and Lindsey came so connected at the hip musically as partners. And as partners, me, and Chris and John had gone through the whole, we lived together in houses for years, like Benny Folds back, the proverbial go to the country and survive as a band house that did just that. So in many ways we were preset for that to be continuing. And I think that's part of the lovely story that you are hinting at or going to, is that it really was a connected right at the beginning there of really, really connected bunch of people in full relationships, musically and personally. So we were set up, especially I would imagine when I think of Christine and having Stevie come into the band, I think that was a huge success in terms of ... And I'm gathering through all time that it was also a huge move for Stevie where she felt her identity in tandem with Lindsey no doubt as it went on for a long, long time, especially creatively. But as a lady, I think it allowed her a sense of more expression, more feeling her druthers within the framework of being creative. So it was the perfect home and it was a utopian get together that went on as we all know to be quite challenged in different ways.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music How Fleetwood Mac Provided Safe Harbor From Band Drama...

Everyone was so dedicated to what we were doing, I completely got off that train that this was disappearing and genuinely would tell anyone around me that were full of doubt, I said, "This is not going to disintegrate." We're all really, really unbelievable personal cost, knowing the misery that especially the four people in the couple set-up. Ironically, Jenny and I have broken up at the same time, so five of us were in a state of flux… A lot of pain. And this creature known as Fleetwood Mac and what we were doing became the safe harbor in a way, I believe. …was it a complete healing? No, but it has those elements to it, certainly in the complete chaos… And then a whole other scenario happened, which was the beginning of the journey, the wave of what this body of work created, which would've been, and I sort of can maybe speak a little bit for Lindsey's and it was so well put, he said, "And then we didn't ever really, really deeply heal what had really happened to everyone.”

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie and Lindsey’s Ongoing Complicated Relationship…

I'll just say it, especially for Stevie and Lindsey, I don't think certainly are not resolved fully, and I wish they were and I visualize those moments as the years trickle by somehow, but I truly, somewhat sadly think that that will go into the rainbow somewhere and never really change, but there you go.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About The Benefits of Being in a Co-Ed Band...

…believe me, it was crazy and that's no news to anyone out there, public knowledge, but somehow, there was some decorum, there was some decorum about who and what we did as people, and it was always emotionally driven, which had it been quite literally a bunch of lads in a band, I think it would've been...Certainly, again, you'll probably hear it about 3,000 times, speaking for myself, I think having the ladies in the band, as it should, it reined us in on some damn level, and we, I think, benefited from that, certainly, as a band.

Mick Fleetwood Reflects On His Role in The Band…

…For me, it is that, when I listen to our music, not only this album, talking about for a long time, I didn't really know what it was I was really contributing, apart from ... I do know now. I do know, is that things that you've been so gracious to mention, but my piggy-in-the-middle, keeping some semblance out of panic or insecurity, to have this not stop, that seeing and hearing, hearing a body of work from time to time, that actually now comfortably does cross my mind. I go, "Well no, I didn't do that. But this is my song. This is my song." Is seeing all this, these lovely incarnations of Fleetwood Mac that I've been, and John, have been so incredibly blessed, genuinely being around incredibly talented people that we were able to invite into the band, and mercifully, with really fantastic, unbelievable storytelling results. That to me is like my song now. And I can express, I go like, "Yeah." It's not like taking credit for anything other than that. But I think, if that makes sense, it's a sense of worth for me that ... My father had a phrase, it sort of applies to things that aren't always hunky-dory, aren't always the greatest thing since slice bread, and yet we're already touching on things of huge import, which were huge versions of celebrating that brought happiness and esteem and confidence to all of us, is like, with all the blows that were taken, you sit back, and Dad would say, "But you know what? It was worth a damn." And the "worth a damn" is talking about this album, that so affected the people who made it.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Leaving “Silver Springs” Off The Album...

I think Stevie ... I'm pretty sure she got relegated, or would grab at one of the two, and she always requested, even down to the tours that we've done most recently would be, "Let Stevie have a go at the ... “ The list, usually with huge success. And we go like, "Yeah, that's cool." I'm thinking that she probably put this together.And of course, I think it was on this album, that one of the age-old, what's the ... Silver Springs, that didn't make it on the albums. Right? That wasn't much fun for me. I had to go and tell her.It was in the car park at the record plant in LA at that point. We used about three or four different studios, and we had to get out of the record plot. I wander around a bit, so excuse my lack of concentration. But I think when we left the record plot… Wallowing around in the abyss.mSo anyhow, I ended up in a car park having to tell young Stevie that ... A great song, and truly, truly, truly, truly, we were so intent on, at that point when you master an album, getting it to sound, and we simply couldn't, unless we sacrificed the level of the dynamic of the album, when you put the needle down, and we just felt something had to go, and then that was the song … But that song became legendary, but no doubt was really supposed to be part of this album. And it was a forever ... Like I was the Grim Reaper in the car park, that had to break the news, and Stevie's made me suffer inordinately ever since.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music He’s A Fan of Eminem...

I'm a huge fan of his. I think he right from the get go was fascinating, and just really super talented and not afraid of being misunderstood for sure, and all the rest of it.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music How Early Academic Misadventures Led To Fleetwood Mac…

I was always looking for, I didn't really know who and what I was because I was a total academic dunce, dyslexic and clinging onto anything. Sort of became an early storyteller where you can't go on a straight line. They say that most of the criminals or the arch talented politicians, a lot of them actually are dyslexic. So I learned to sort of find out and hold my own in a sort of ether of non knowing and be fairly quick on my feet as much as possible. But that part of me, I think in the shy, slightly clinging on, slightly wanting to need the need of being around other people, I learned that very early in terms of creating a team that I felt I could in a way express myself with and through, which is probably very close to the Fleetwood Mac story in terms of this funny little creature playing drums.

bombaysaffires

02-10-2022, 05:00 PM

https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/mick-fleetwood-reflects-45h-anniversary-rumours-apple-music-1

ARTICLE CONTRIBUTED BY APPLE | PUBLISHED ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 2022

All credits to Zane Lowe on Apple Music 1
Mick Fleetwood joins Zane Lowe on Apple Music 1 to discuss the 45th anniversary of Fleetwood Mac's iconic album ‘Rumours’. He tells Apple Music about the band dynamics that shaped the album, reflects on Stevie and Lindsey joining the group and the ongoing complications of their relationship, how the group’s music provided safe harbor from persistent band drama, the benefits of being in a co-ed band, how he sees his role in the group decades later, being an Eminem fan and much more.

Mick Fleetwood Reflects on ‘Rumours’ 45 Years Later…

I didn't really know what was going on until a little while later. And the fact that we're having this conversation 40 odd years later about the same body of work that was created by that line of up with Fleetwood Mac is one I don't think about it until you start talking about it...

I think probably to a large extent to the other band members, a permanent backdrop that has become part of no doubt the fabric of who we are certainly as players and artists, but also the effectual with what it did to us as people through that, the challenges of it, the sociological messes and joys that it brought, all of that are in these collection of songs known as the Rumours album. I think it was a little bit of, for me and John especially, in a way we had our, for us, it was a large tidal wave back in England with the beginnings of Fleetwood Mac in 1967, '68 with Peter Green, where we were the pop boys of certainly down in Australia and the Commonwealth, not over here really at all, apart from some boutique interest in the band, which was demonstrated later by certainly Carlos and people, and the Grateful Dead have definitely heard about the music that we made and apparently loved it.

So when the wave sort of hit, I think me and John, speaking certainly for myself, we'd had some reference to having something, and in truth the wave dissipated before Stevie and Lindsey, although we continued through the Bob Welch year and so forth, and many wonderfully talented people, you could see on a graph that for us, it was just, we were keeping going, we never thought one way or the other. But the truth is we were on a quiet period in terms of success. But me and John had had that shock as really young chaps in England, where we were… Top of the pops and stupid praises, like they're selling more than the Beatles and all this stuff. And therefore took it in our stride a little bit more, I think, I hope. And it certainly helped me until I got super crazy, and substance abuse later on and all that stuff. But in the early days of the band that we're talking about that made that album Rumours, I really felt that that too had helped me say, hang on, hang on. This is all fantastic, but we're doing what we're doing. And it helped certainly from the Peter Green days, we always, especially led by Peter, held onto our integrity as players and really didn't get super caught up in being so-called pop stars, or rock stars, or whatever it is.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham Joining The Group…

One has to quietly remember that John and Chris came at that point as a married couple that were musically connected, which was a reflection certainly God knows of Stevie and Lindsey came so connected at the hip musically as partners. And as partners, me, and Chris and John had gone through the whole, we lived together in houses for years, like Benny Folds back, the proverbial go to the country and survive as a band house that did just that. So in many ways we were preset for that to be continuing. And I think that's part of the lovely story that you are hinting at or going to, is that it really was a connected right at the beginning there of really, really connected bunch of people in full relationships, musically and personally. So we were set up, especially I would imagine when I think of Christine and having Stevie come into the band, I think that was a huge success in terms of ... And I'm gathering through all time that it was also a huge move for Stevie where she felt her identity in tandem with Lindsey no doubt as it went on for a long, long time, especially creatively. But as a lady, I think it allowed her a sense of more expression, more feeling her druthers within the framework of being creative. So it was the perfect home and it was a utopian get together that went on as we all know to be quite challenged in different ways.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music How Fleetwood Mac Provided Safe Harbor From Band Drama...

Everyone was so dedicated to what we were doing, I completely got off that train that this was disappearing and genuinely would tell anyone around me that were full of doubt, I said, "This is not going to disintegrate." We're all really, really unbelievable personal cost, knowing the misery that especially the four people in the couple set-up. Ironically, Jenny and I have broken up at the same time, so five of us were in a state of flux… A lot of pain. And this creature known as Fleetwood Mac and what we were doing became the safe harbor in a way, I believe. …was it a complete healing? No, but it has those elements to it, certainly in the complete chaos… And then a whole other scenario happened, which was the beginning of the journey, the wave of what this body of work created, which would've been, and I sort of can maybe speak a little bit for Lindsey's and it was so well put, he said, "And then we didn't ever really, really deeply heal what had really happened to everyone.”

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie and Lindsey’s Ongoing Complicated Relationship…

I'll just say it, especially for Stevie and Lindsey, I don't think certainly are not resolved fully, and I wish they were and I visualize those moments as the years trickle by somehow, but I truly, somewhat sadly think that that will go into the rainbow somewhere and never really change, but there you go.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About The Benefits of Being in a Co-Ed Band...

…believe me, it was crazy and that's no news to anyone out there, public knowledge, but somehow, there was some decorum, there was some decorum about who and what we did as people, and it was always emotionally driven, which had it been quite literally a bunch of lads in a band, I think it would've been...Certainly, again, you'll probably hear it about 3,000 times, speaking for myself, I think having the ladies in the band, as it should, it reined us in on some damn level, and we, I think, benefited from that, certainly, as a band.

Mick Fleetwood Reflects On His Role in The Band…

…For me, it is that, when I listen to our music, not only this album, talking about for a long time, I didn't really know what it was I was really contributing, apart from ... I do know now. I do know, is that things that you've been so gracious to mention, but my piggy-in-the-middle, keeping some semblance out of panic or insecurity, to have this not stop, that seeing and hearing, hearing a body of work from time to time, that actually now comfortably does cross my mind. I go, "Well no, I didn't do that. But this is my song. This is my song." Is seeing all this, these lovely incarnations of Fleetwood Mac that I've been, and John, have been so incredibly blessed, genuinely being around incredibly talented people that we were able to invite into the band, and mercifully, with really fantastic, unbelievable storytelling results. That to me is like my song now. And I can express, I go like, "Yeah." It's not like taking credit for anything other than that. But I think, if that makes sense, it's a sense of worth for me that ... My father had a phrase, it sort of applies to things that aren't always hunky-dory, aren't always the greatest thing since slice bread, and yet we're already touching on things of huge import, which were huge versions of celebrating that brought happiness and esteem and confidence to all of us, is like, with all the blows that were taken, you sit back, and Dad would say, "But you know what? It was worth a damn." And the "worth a damn" is talking about this album, that so affected the people who made it.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Leaving “Silver Springs” Off The Album...

I think Stevie ... I'm pretty sure she got relegated, or would grab at one of the two, and she always requested, even down to the tours that we've done most recently would be, "Let Stevie have a go at the ... “ The list, usually with huge success. And we go like, "Yeah, that's cool." I'm thinking that she probably put this together.And of course, I think it was on this album, that one of the age-old, what's the ... Silver Springs, that didn't make it on the albums. Right? That wasn't much fun for me. I had to go and tell her.It was in the car park at the record plant in LA at that point. We used about three or four different studios, and we had to get out of the record plot. I wander around a bit, so excuse my lack of concentration. But I think when we left the record plot… Wallowing around in the abyss.mSo anyhow, I ended up in a car park having to tell young Stevie that ... A great song, and truly, truly, truly, truly, we were so intent on, at that point when you master an album, getting it to sound, and we simply couldn't, unless we sacrificed the level of the dynamic of the album, when you put the needle down, and we just felt something had to go, and then that was the song … But that song became legendary, but no doubt was really supposed to be part of this album. And it was a forever ... Like I was the Grim Reaper in the car park, that had to break the news, and Stevie's made me suffer inordinately ever since.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music He’s A Fan of Eminem...

I'm a huge fan of his. I think he right from the get go was fascinating, and just really super talented and not afraid of being misunderstood for sure, and all the rest of it.

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music How Early Academic Misadventures Led To Fleetwood Mac…

I was always looking for, I didn't really know who and what I was because I was a total academic dunce, dyslexic and clinging onto anything. Sort of became an early storyteller where you can't go on a straight line. They say that most of the criminals or the arch talented politicians, a lot of them actually are dyslexic. So I learned to sort of find out and hold my own in a sort of ether of non knowing and be fairly quick on my feet as much as possible. But that part of me, I think in the shy, slightly clinging on, slightly wanting to need the need of being around other people, I learned that very early in terms of creating a team that I felt I could in a way express myself with and through, which is probably very close to the Fleetwood Mac story in terms of this funny little creature playing drums.

I have never seen such a collection of Mick Fleetwood word-salad in my life. I was going to highlight the inane bits but then really it's this WHOLE interview....
His mouth spews words but good luck finding any actual coherence in them...

I really hope those close to him get him checked out by a neurologist, and soon, because he's displaying a lot of signs of dementia in his speech

vivfox

02-10-2022, 05:15 PM

FEBRUARY 9, 2022
Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Leaving “Silver Springs” Off The Album...
Like I was the Grim Reaper in the car park, that had to break the news, and Stevie's made me suffer inordinately ever since.

Mick is going to be punished for saying that. Watch him walk that back in his next interview.

Elle, thank you for transcribing for us.

vivfox

02-10-2022, 05:18 PM

I have never seen such a collection of Mick Fleetwood word-salad in my life. I was going to highlight the inane bits but then really it's this WHOLE interview....
His mouth spews words but good luck finding any actual coherence in them...

I really hope those close to him get him checked out by a neurologist, and soon, because he's displaying a lot of signs of dementia in his speech

I understand where you're coming from in your takeaway but for me it felt like as he was telling the story he was also remembering bits and pieces he wanted to toss in there, while at the same time attempting to be extremely careful what he said.

elle

02-10-2022, 05:22 PM

Mick is going to be punished for saying that. Watch him walk that back in his next interview.

Elle, thank you for transcribing for us.

you're welcome. i just copy/pasted from that linked site. no idea whether that's the whole interview or just parts of it.

HomerMcvie

02-10-2022, 05:59 PM

I understand where you're coming from in your takeaway but for me it felt like as he was telling the story he was also remembering bits and pieces he wanted to toss in there, while at the same time attempting to be extremely careful what he said.

After what $he did to Lindsey, he knows he'd better beware!!!

Macfan4life

02-10-2022, 06:26 PM

What's the fuss? He has described the Silver Springs meeting in the parking lot many times. He may not have used the word Grim Reaper before but he described it as such. In fact he goes into way more intimate detail in 1997 than this interview.

IMHO nothing new to see here.

What I want to know is more details of Mick not letting the puppet master use Silver Springs on Timespace.

Mick: I have no career. Fleetwood Mac is toast. We dont sell albums anymore. I cant let you take a Fleetwood Mac song that I kicked off an album and make a B side because I need every penny I can get. I hope you understand.

Puppet Master: Go F**K yourself I make you rich and you treat me this way. I cant write good songs anymore and need this for my collection. I am leaving your stupid band forever.

HomerMcvie

02-10-2022, 07:08 PM

Puppet Master: Go F**K yourself I make you rich and you treat me this way. I cant write good songs anymore and need this for my collection. I am leaving your stupid band forever.

Too bad that wasn't the end of her tenure.

aleuzzi

02-10-2022, 07:16 PM

HomerMcvie

02-10-2022, 07:31 PM

Mick’s style of telling a story always frustrates me—the stops, the starts, the swerves, the jumps. Good god, the man cannot express a coherent thought in spoken words.

That said, glad he referred to dropping SS in order to serve the dynamic of the record, as opposed to the bs “it was too long” explanation that was bandied about for years. RUMOURS needed (and still needs) IDWK in order to maintain the balance between “up” and slow tunes, as well as the masculine-feminine vocal presence. Sorry SS—you simply aren’t a part of the real RUMOURS. Your time would come 20 years later.
I agree 100%.

Even though the old goat hates it, IDWK really helps the pace of Rumours. There's a reason it's a perfect album. SS would have made it NOT a perfect album. I've never even really thought about it before, but SS would have fit much better on Tusk!

And I HATE revisionist history. Bye bye, SS. You ain't on Rumours! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!:laugh::D:wavey:

bombaysaffires

02-10-2022, 11:19 PM

I think probably to a large extent to the other band members, a permanent backdrop that has become part of no doubt the fabric of who we are certainly as players and artists, but also the effectual with what it did to us as people through that, the challenges of it, the sociological messes and joys that it brought, all of that are in these collection of songs known as the Rumours album. I think it was a little bit of, for me and John especially, in a way we had our, for us, it was a large tidal wave back in England with the beginnings of Fleetwood Mac in 1967, '68 with Peter Green, where we were the pop boys of certainly down in Australia and the Commonwealth, not over here really at all, apart from some boutique interest in the band, which was demonstrated later by certainly Carlos and people, and the Grateful Dead have definitely heard about the music that we made and apparently loved it.

Like, I get what he's trying to say because as has been pointed out, he's said all this before in terms of the story he's trying to tell.

But I'm sorry, this is even more garbled than usual and not even real words in some parts.

Macfan4life

02-11-2022, 05:19 AM

I agree 100%.

Even though the old goat hates it, IDWK really helps the pace of Rumours. There's a reason it's a perfect album. SS would have made it NOT a perfect album. I've never even really thought about it before, but SS would have fit much better on Tusk!

And I HATE revisionist history. Bye bye, SS. You ain't on Rumours! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!:laugh::D:wavey:
Mick has brainwashed you.
It should have replaced GYOW and you know it.

Villavic

02-11-2022, 06:53 AM

During the 20th anniversary Mick revealed he almost gave their coke dealer album credit. Now that was something new. I think even casual fans have heard these stories a million times.

I think he mentioned it in his first book, too.

Macfan4life

02-11-2022, 07:53 AM

Mick’s style of telling a story always frustrates me—the stops, the starts, the swerves, the jumps. Good god, the man cannot express a coherent thought in spoken words.

That said, glad he referred to dropping SS in order to serve the dynamic of the record, as opposed to the bs “it was too long” explanation that was bandied about for years. RUMOURS needed (and still needs) IDWK in order to maintain the balance between “up” and slow tunes, as well as the masculine-feminine vocal presence. Sorry SS—you simply aren’t a part of the real RUMOURS. Your time would come 20 years later.
Your first part is truth. His STORY TELLING is absurd. He only morphed his story to fit the consensus that Rumours was perfect the way that it is. Back recording Rumours, SS the way that it was probably was too long for 10 tracks. Like all of his stories over the years, he changes like the wind. He flipped flopped 4 times on Lindsey's firing. Mick just tells people what they want to hear. Dont fall for it. Even if you disagree with his decision, it would be nice if he had balls to defend his decision with honesty.

HomerMcvie

02-11-2022, 10:08 AM

Your first part is truth. His STORY TELLING is absurd. He only morphed his story to fit the consensus that Rumours was perfect the way that it is. Back recording Rumours, SS the way that it was probably was too long for 10 tracks. Like all of his stories over the years, he changes like the wind. He flipped flopped 4 times on Lindsey's firing. Mick just tells people what they want to hear. Dont fall for it. Even if you disagree with his decision, it would be nice if he had balls to defend his decision with honesty.

He and $tevie are both delusional people. The only difference is that Mick NEEDS the money, and he knows that Old I'm Not The Boss is his paycheck, so he must appease her at all costs. So he usually words everything to fall in her favor.

Balls? Wooden balls that go clickity clack are the only balls he has. What a loser...

jbrownsjr

02-11-2022, 10:25 AM

elle

02-11-2022, 10:28 AM

wow this generated some interesting discussion - glad it landed in my google inbox so i could share!

parts that i find interesting:

https://www.gratefulweb.com/articles/mick-fleetwood-reflects-45h-anniversary-rumours-apple-music-1

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Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham Joining The Group…

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and I sort of can maybe speak a little bit for Lindsey's and it was so well put, he said, "And then we didn't ever really, really deeply heal what had really happened to everyone.”

Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Stevie and Lindsey’s Ongoing Complicated Relationship…

I'll just say it, especially for Stevie and Lindsey, I don't think certainly are not resolved fully, and I wish they were and I visualize those moments as the years trickle by somehow, but I truly, somewhat sadly think that that will go into the rainbow somewhere and never really change, but there you go.

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Mick Fleetwood Tells Apple Music About Leaving “Silver Springs” Off The Album...

I think Stevie ... I'm pretty sure she got relegated, or would grab at one of the two, and she always requested, even down to the tours that we've done most recently would be, "Let Stevie have a go at the ... “ The list, usually with huge success. And we go like, "Yeah, that's cool." I'm thinking that she probably put this together. And of course, I think it was on this album, that one of the age-old, what's the ... Silver Springs, that didn't make it on the albums. Right? That wasn't much fun for me. I had to go and tell her.It was in the car park at the record plant in LA at that point. We used about three or four different studios, and we had to get out of the record plot. I wander around a bit, so excuse my lack of concentration. But I think when we left the record plot… Wallowing around in the abyss. So anyhow, I ended up in a car park having to tell young Stevie that ... A great song, and truly, truly, truly, truly, we were so intent on, at that point when you master an album, getting it to sound, and we simply couldn't, unless we sacrificed the level of the dynamic of the album, when you put the needle down, and we just felt something had to go, and then that was the song … But that song became legendary, but no doubt was really supposed to be part of this album. And it was a forever ... Like I was the Grim Reaper in the car park, that had to break the news, and Stevie's made me suffer inordinately ever since.

basically yes, they are talking about FM and Rumours, but there's a mention of Peter Green and Bob Welch, yet no peep about NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW band. isn't FM ever evolving band with new members? why not mention "current" ones if indeed they are current? oh wait, anyone who looks at FM legally knows better. there is no current FM! :lol::]

also, sounds like SN is still firmly holding her grudge against LB since Mick right now talks about their relationship / them riding into the rainbow as they currently are.

and, anyone who glances over social media will tell you that Stevie cult has been successful in blaming everything that they don't like about FM or SN on Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey! he's such a "horrible guy" they've been managing to amplify and new people just coming into fandom or just hearing about FM or SN think that he's just horrible whereas Stevie is such a "feminist icon" and "innocent great fighter" for "strong women's rights" and it goes on and on. so the Silver Spring being off Rumours? and don't you know that big bad Lindsey cheated on poor innocent Stevie? and she got him with Dreams and Silver Springs? of course it was big bad Lindsey that did it to little poor innocent flower Stevie - taking Silver Springs off Rumours. ;) oh it was because he was always "oh so jealous of her success". :rolleyes::p

so while the facts may be completely different, you could never tell if you are glancing at general social media. Stevie is a saint. and Lindsey is Grim Reaper. and Mick doesn't even exist. :lol:

HomerMcvie

02-11-2022, 11:05 AM

I hope Old I'm Not The Bo$$ holds her grudge FOREVER.

Because he has no business (N)ever going back (again).

The old goat ruined the band. I hope $he and Dick are happy.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 11:31 AM

I hope Old I'm Not The Bo$$ holds her grudge FOREVER.

Because he has no business (N)ever going back (again).

The old goat ruined the band. I hope $he and Dick are happy.
I feel Mick is bored. Why does he always sound like he has a cold?

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 11:51 AM

wow this generated some interesting discussion - glad it landed in my google inbox so i could share!

parts that i find interesting:

basically yes, they are talking about FM and Rumours, but there's a mention of Peter Green and Bob Welch, yet no peep about NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW band. isn't FM ever evolving band with new members? why not mention "current" ones if indeed they are current? oh wait, anyone who looks at FM legally knows better. there is no current FM! :lol::]

also, sounds like SN is still firmly holding her grudge against LB since Mick right now talks about their relationship / them riding into the rainbow as they currently are.

and, anyone who glances over social media will tell you that Stevie cult has been successful in blaming everything that they don't like about FM or SN on Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey! he's such a "horrible guy" they've been managing to amplify and new people just coming into fandom or just hearing about FM or SN think that he's just horrible whereas Stevie is such a "feminist icon" and "innocent great fighter" for "strong women's rights" and it goes on and on. so the Silver Spring being off Rumours? and don't you know that big bad Lindsey cheated on poor innocent Stevie? and she got him with Dreams and Silver Springs? of course it was big bad Lindsey that did it to little poor innocent flower Stevie - taking Silver Springs off Rumours. ;) oh it was because he was always "oh so jealous of her success". :rolleyes::p

so while the facts may be completely different, you could never tell if you are glancing at general social media. Stevie is a saint. and Lindsey is Grim Reaper. and Mick doesn't even exist. :lol:
Social will say he told her what she couldn't wear, he made her feel she couldn't talk onstage, criticized her music, and was a "woman beater"

Macfan4life

02-11-2022, 12:48 PM

I do agree with the consensus that IDWTK flows better and sounds better on Rumours. I would just point out it sounds this way because of our comfort in knowing the song and its instantly identified as Rumours. Its a great song after The Chain.
However, if Rumours would have had Silver Springs instead, I would bet the same people would have said it was Rumours sound and could not imagine the album without it. We are all comfortable with things we know. Its all Monday Morning quarterbacking and second guessing after a huge success. Its impossible to do that. Lets be real most any song they did during this era would have sounded great. There were no duds back then. This band was on fire so much that it irked Lindsey to try something different.

Can you imagine that instead of Tusk a double album if it was Rumours. I imagine Silver Springs, Sleeping Angel, Think About Me and others in the Rumours sound.

I try to imagine that I never heard any of the songs before and put Rumours together with the songs they recorded. I seriously may have axed IDWTK and NGBA for Silver Springs. Those other 2 would have been fantastic Tusk additions. I am honest and not playing to comfort/consensus game that Mick is.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 12:50 PM

wow this generated some interesting discussion - glad it landed in my google inbox so i could share!

parts that i find interesting:

basically yes, they are talking about FM and Rumours, but there's a mention of Peter Green and Bob Welch, yet no peep about NEW NEW NEW NEW NEW band. isn't FM ever evolving band with new members? why not mention "current" ones if indeed they are current? oh wait, anyone who looks at FM legally knows better. there is no current FM! :lol::]

also, sounds like SN is still firmly holding her grudge against LB since Mick right now talks about their relationship / them riding into the rainbow as they currently are.

and, anyone who glances over social media will tell you that Stevie cult has been successful in blaming everything that they don't like about FM or SN on Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey Lindsey! he's such a "horrible guy" they've been managing to amplify and new people just coming into fandom or just hearing about FM or SN think that he's just horrible whereas Stevie is such a "feminist icon" and "innocent great fighter" for "strong women's rights" and it goes on and on. so the Silver Spring being off Rumours? and don't you know that big bad Lindsey cheated on poor innocent Stevie? and she got him with Dreams and Silver Springs? of course it was big bad Lindsey that did it to little poor innocent flower Stevie - taking Silver Springs off Rumours. ;) oh it was because he was always "oh so jealous of her success". :rolleyes::p

so while the facts may be completely different, you could never tell if you are glancing at general social media. Stevie is a saint. and Lindsey is Grim Reaper. and Mick doesn't even exist. :lol:

:shocked:

I mean this in all sincerity, but maybe you should consider taking an extended break from social media.

elle

02-11-2022, 02:14 PM

:shocked:

I mean this in all sincerity, but maybe you should consider taking an extended break from social media.

i always find it interesting that whenever someone hits a nerve people tend to go personal and advise to get off social media :laugh:

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 02:42 PM

i always find it interesting that whenever someone hits a nerve people tend to go personal and advise to get off social media :laugh:

Okay, Elle. And, I guess you weren’t going personal in that joke thread?

I don’t care if people are TeamLindsey, Chiffonheads, Bluesers, or whatever. Everyone has an opinion. However, a rambling, unhinged rant about what one group of fans say on social media? Who cares? What’s the point in being THAT invested? What’s the point in being SO invested in it that you drag it into here? What does that accomplish?

elle

02-11-2022, 03:15 PM

a rambling, unhinged rant
interesting.

Who cares?
apparently, you care.

[/B]What’s the point in being THAT invested? What’s the point in being SO invested in it that you drag it into here?
what are we doing here but rambling about our favorite band?

drag it into here? What does that accomplish?
i am bringing up here what i noticed has been recent public FM band members characterization because it adds to our discussion.

yet, for some reason you are trying to shut it down and making it about me, not about characterization of FM members that's been lately building out there.

elle

02-11-2022, 03:25 PM

Social will say he told her what she couldn't wear, he made her feel she couldn't talk onstage, criticized her music, and was a "woman beater"

don't forget about never taking a mic off the stand. or being mr useless. or daring to criticize her tense / person in her gibberish poetry.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 03:27 PM

what are we doing here but rambling about our favorite band?
Mostly having discussions about the band, not factions of fans on other platforms.

i am bringing up here what i noticed has been recent public FM band members characterization because it adds to our discussion.
How?

yet, for some reason you are trying to shut it down and making it about me, not about characterization of FM members that's been lately building out there.
Because that’s not especially relevant. :shrug:

Seriously, we’re all Fleetwood Mac fans on here and this band has given us plenty to discuss/debate without having to drag up what gets discussed on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, or whatever. What, should I start getting on blues forums to find out what blues fans are saying about any of the post-1970 lineups? Would THAT enhance discussions on here?

elle

02-11-2022, 03:45 PM

social media amplification is nowadays integral part of artist marketing and advertising.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 03:54 PM

social media amplification is nowadays integral part of artist marketing and advertising.

That’s great. I’m sure their professional PR teams are on it.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 05:01 PM

don't forget about never taking a mic off the stand. or being mr useless. or daring to criticize her tense / person in her gibberish poetry.
Why didn't they fire him after Say You Will or even sooner?!

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 05:08 PM

Why didn't they fire him after Say You Will or even sooner?!

How many albums did they do with Stevie after SYW?

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 05:20 PM

How many albums did they do with Stevie after SYW?
How many world tours did they do with Stevie after SYW?

Would you like to comment on the thread subject?

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 05:38 PM

How many world tours did they do with Stevie after SYW?

Two in ten years, the second one with Christine possibly retuning as an undercurrent.

elle

02-11-2022, 05:41 PM

How many world tours did they do with Stevie after SYW?

after SYW came out?

2003-2004
2009
2013
2014-2015

Musicares 2018

i heard there may have been also so fakey tour in 2019 or so.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 05:55 PM

Two in ten years, the second one with Christine possibly retuning as an undercurrent.
After the album Say You Will was released, they did four tours.
SYW was a two year tour. Unleashed was a year. Live 2013 was a year. On With the Show was a year.
As The Ledgie, gldstwmn once said If Stevie could fire Lindsey, she would have fired him a million times already

Why do you think Lindsey was fired? I'd be grateful to hear. Thank you.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 06:10 PM

After the album Say You Will was released, they did four tours.
SYW was a two year tour. Unleashed was a year. Live 2013 was a year. On With the Show was a year.
Well, I was counting the SYW tour as being part of SYW. They only did two more tours with that lineup before Christine came back, but Christine’s return was inevitable by the start of the 2013 tour. I almost went to opening night in Columbus just because it was possible by that point. I decided against it (in keeping with my “I’m done unless Christine comes back” stance).

Why do you think Lindsey was fired? I'd be grateful to hear. Thank you.
Since you asked (although I’ve been consistent on this..)

Because he was being difficult during tour negotiations and kept pushing for a solo tour, even within the context of off nights on a Fleetwood Mac tour. That album he was going to tour behind? Yeah, it was released like seven months ago. Maybe just saying “okay” and going with the flow would have behooved him? Did fighting get him anything? He forgot the equation that he and Stevie were not equals by that point.

bombaysaffires

02-11-2022, 06:13 PM

I agree that SS doesn't belong on Rumours. The main reason being that it wasn't. I don't even like the studio version. I love the Dance version with the piano intro, the beautiful blend of the three voices, the great guitar, and the passion.

completely disagree.
The studio version is perfection.
Her voice alone....it was recorded when she was at both the height of her natural talent and her skill in employing it to its greatest effect.
On The Dance version she had already begun her descent into bellowing out her songs... far too loud and far too lacking in the subtle nuance that exists on the studio version.
The layers of guitar on the studio version are sublime and not really possible live because Lindsey has to pick ONE guitar to play live versus playing all the guitar parts in the studio.

The Dance version is a bit too sledgehammer-y for me compared to the studio version.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 06:32 PM

Since you asked (although I’ve been consistent on this..)

Because he was being difficult during tour negotiations and kept pushing for a solo tour, even within the context of off nights on a Fleetwood Mac tour. Difficult as in hurting Stevie's feelings?

Thank you.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 06:39 PM

Difficult as in hurting Stevie's feelings?

What? Where did you get that? That wasn’t even suggested.

Difficult as in they all had agreed in principle prior to end of the 2014-15 tour that they would be doing a tour starting in 2018. By the time things were being booked, people hired, and the other principals had signed off on doing the tour, he threw a monkey wrench into the negotiations. They said no and he kept trying to come up with alternative plan that would let him release a new album before or during the Fleetwood Mac tour. Eventually, there was yet another incident and they decided to move on.

elle

02-11-2022, 06:43 PM

Difficult as in hurting Stevie's feelings?

difficult as BuckVie album existence hurting her feelings.

and also difficult as possibly hurting Irvings bottom line. the guy who makes all oldies bands forget about being artists and become his touring ka-ching machines.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 07:09 PM

Eventually, there was yet another incident and they decided to move on.
What is "yet another incident"? Wasn't Stevie hurt because he smirked behind her during her speech? That's the incident, no?

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 07:36 PM

What is "yet another incident"? Wasn't Stevie hurt because he smirked behind her during her speech? That's the incident, no?

That’s what Irving told him, there was apparently an outburst about “Rhiannon” being played before they went on that was actually the last straw.

It’s something that in a different context would likely have been glossed over. But after a tenuous and still ongoing negotiation, especially after Lindsey burned his bridges with Irving, who’d just resurrected the Eagles with Vince Gill, and after the untimely death of Tom Petty/sudden availability of Mike Campbell, why bother? Especially when they wanted to play older songs with the pending release of the new career retrospective.

UnwindedDreams

02-11-2022, 07:49 PM

That’s what Irving told him, there was apparently an outburst about “Rhiannon” being played before they went on that was actually the last straw.

It’s something that in a different context would likely have been glossed over. But after a tenuous and still ongoing negotiation, especially after Lindsey burned his bridges with Irving, who’d just resurrected the Eagles with Vince Gill, and after the untimely death of Tom Petty/sudden availability of Mike Campbell, why bother? Especially when they wanted to play older songs with the pending release of the new career retrospective.
I guess the outburst about Rhiannon was what made Stevie say she was done with him. She said he was difficult at Musicares.

HomerMcvie

02-11-2022, 08:07 PM

Why didn't they fire him after Say You Will or even sooner?!
$he needed FM to be 2/3 of the singers. They did it without Christine. Once Christine returned, Old I'm Not The Bo$$ began sharpening her ax. Now that Christine was back, $he knew $he could get away with it.

HomerMcvie

02-11-2022, 08:13 PM

difficult as BuckVie album existence hurting her feelings.

and also difficult as possibly hurting Irvings bottom line. the guy who makes all oldies bands forget about being artists and become his touring ka-ching machines.

Yep. How DARE they do a project without her. They showed her that they didn't need her to make a great album.

BuckVie was the beginning of his end.

aleuzzi

02-11-2022, 08:19 PM

completely disagree.
The studio version is perfection.
Her voice alone....it was recorded when she was at both the height of her natural talent and her skill in employing it to its greatest effect.
On The Dance version she had already begun her descent into bellowing out her songs... far too loud and far too lacking in the subtle nuance that exists on the studio version.
The layers of guitar on the studio version are sublime and not really possible live because Lindsey has to pick ONE guitar to play live versus playing all the guitar parts in the studio.

The Dance version is a bit too sledgehammer-y for me compared to the studio version.

I feel the opposite. To my ears, her vocals on the the original/studio version sound shaky and immature. Her vocals on THE DANCE version are, I think, glorious. There, she approaches the song with the wisdom and gravity it requires. What was once a charming yet somewhat precious song with country-pop underpinnings became a cathartic, forceful, show-stopping ballad. She owned that song and that performance. A triumph.

elle

02-11-2022, 08:25 PM

Yep. How DARE they do a project without her. They showed her that they didn't need her to make a great album.

BuckVie was the beginning of his end.

and yet, if i ask you and others here as FM fans (not talking here about any SN fan disguising themselves as "FM fan") whether they'd rather have intact classic 5 touring jukebox, or BuckVie, LB box set and Lindsey Buckingham albums, i suspect most would by far prefer having those 3 albums to the jukebox tours.

and i'd further suspect so would Lindsey. way better for his musical legacy.

elle

02-11-2022, 08:30 PM

I feel the opposite. To my ears, her vocals on the the original/studio version sound shaky and immature. Her vocals on THE DANCE version are, I think, glorious. There, she approaches the song with the wisdom and gravity it requires. What was once a charming yet somewhat precious song with country-pop underpinnings became a cathartic, forceful, show-stopping ballad. She owned that song and that performance. A triumph.

yeah i think original Rumours era Silver Springs is pretty-ish, slightly familiar melody lifted from someone else's song, but just boring. not standing out.

emotions she put in the performance of it in the 90s made it a stand out.

and then of course she and LB kept acting out those same emotions throughout the rest of their tours. she really should have done it with Finn. i bet it wouldn't change her longstanding act, like it didn't on the other songs.

HomerMcvie

02-11-2022, 08:31 PM

and yet, if i ask you and others here as FM fans (not talking here about any SN fan disguising themselves as "FM fan") whether they'd rather have intact classic 5 touring jukebox, or BuckVie, LB box set and Lindsey Buckingham albums, i suspect most would by far prefer having those 3 albums to the jukebox tours.

and i'd further suspect so would Lindsey. way better for his musical legacy.

Yeah, I'd say 70% of "FM" fans are really just $tevie fans in sheeps, err, goat's clothing. No $tevie, no FM!!!!

I'll be eternally thankful for BuckVie. It was the perfect (recording) ending for the band, for me. I mean, the old goat wasn't going to record with them anyway, so what's the point of the jukebox tours? I'll just watch Mirage and bootlegs, and live in their heyday.

SteveMacD

02-11-2022, 09:52 PM

and yet, if i ask you and others here as FM fans (not talking here about any SN fan disguising themselves as "FM fan")
What does that even mean? Is it like how you’re a LB fan disguised as a “FM fan?”

whether they'd rather have intact classic 5 touring jukebox, or BuckVie, LB box set and Lindsey Buckingham albums, i suspect most would by far prefer having those 3 albums to the jukebox tours.
And then there are fans like me who’d rather have the current lineup sans Stevie do a Bare Trees 50th Anniversary Tour.

elle

02-11-2022, 10:37 PM

not sure whether this is from the same apple podcast, or Mick is doing a series of interviews now -

https://kiisfm.iheart.com/content/2022-02-11-how-mick-fleetwood-wrestled-with-his-lack-of-songwriting-in-fleetwood-mac/

Rock News
How Mick Fleetwood Wrestled With His Lack Of Songwriting In Fleetwood Mac
By Andrew Magnotta @AndrewMagnotta
Feb 11, 2022

Photo: Getty Images North America

While Mick Fleetwood doesn't have a great many songwriting credits in Fleetwood Mac's catalog, he says he now understands that his most crucial contribution to the band was keeping it together.

There were certainly plenty of moments when the band could have ended — plenty of players have come and gone over the years — but Fleetwood and his bassist and fellow co-founder John McVie persisted through it all, keeping Fleetwood Mac alive.

Still, Fleetwood admitted in a recent interview, there were times when he looked at the groups songwriters and wondered what he was bringing to the table.

"I didn't really know what it was I was really contributing," the drummer said. "I do know now."

Who brought those talented songwriters together? Who kept them together? Who helped bring those visions to life? The drummer says Fleetwood Mac might have kept going for so long because he was insecure as to what would happen to him if the band stopped.

Now, with the band's future uncertain, Fleetwood says he regards the Fleetwood Mac catalog as his "song."

"...[H]earing our body of work from time to time, that actually now comfortably does cross my mind," he explained. "I go, 'Well, no, I didn't do that — but this is my song. This is my song.' ... These lovely incarnations of Fleetwood Mac ... being around incredibly talented people that we were able to invite into the band, and mercifully, with really fantastic unbelievably storytelling results. That to me is like my song now."

Indeed, when you think about the messy, complication relationships within Fleetwood Mac — the fact that the band's most beloved album, Rumours, is about literal breakups between bandmembers — it's a wonder the band managed to continue.

The very idea of the band, to Fleetwood, was a "safe harbor."

"[To] anyone around me that were full of doubt, I said, 'This is not going to disintegrate," he added. "And then a whole other scenario happened, which was the beginning of the journey, the wave of what this body of work created."

It remains unclear if Fleetwood Mac will resume in the post-pandemic world. Stevie Nicks canceled all of her solo concerts last year "in hopes of a brighter 2022," but Christine McVie has expressed doubts that she or John could be coaxed out into another tour.

Fleetwood has been open about his desire to reunite with Lindsey Buckingham, who was fired from the band in 2018, but he added that such a reunion is unlikely to include Nicks.

David

02-11-2022, 10:48 PM

The studio version is perfection.In Fleetwood Mac terms, it is.

The layers of guitar on the studio version are sublime and not really possible live because Lindsey has to pick ONE guitar to play live versus playing all the guitar parts in the studio.

The studio track exemplifies Fleetwood Mac's strengths with orchestration. And it has a quality that a lot of other top-notch examples of orchestration on Mac albums don't have: real heart instead of sonic puzzles and showmanship. Maybe that's why the studio track doesn't interest some listeners. When you listen to the shimmer and sparkle on other tracks, the arrangement of the instruments feels like a conscious demonstration of the technology in the building, Lindsey's serendipitous cleverness, and the expertise of the engineers. But Silver Springs feels totally committed to an expressive need to convey something that has profoundly shaken its songwriter. (Not in ten thousand years would any of Stevie's solo studio bands have built anything this complex and emotionally subdued around a song of hers.) That beauty is like a documentary of the moods in the room at Sausalito. The interplay of instruments -- like Japanese wind chimes -- feels like nature. What these musicians in their late 20s and early 30s did in 1976 with Silver Springs is the equal of the "feel" Peter, Jeremy, Mick, John, and Danny achieved with their greatest work in 1968 and '69.

Both Danny and Lindsey were devoted to the music of Django Reinhardt, and maybe there's a little Django in their best studio work.

elle

02-11-2022, 10:57 PM

Macfan4life

02-12-2022, 05:45 AM

In Fleetwood Mac terms, it is.

The studio track exemplifies Fleetwood Mac's strengths with orchestration. And it has a quality that a lot of other top-notch examples of orchestration on Mac albums don't have: real heart instead of sonic puzzles and showmanship. Maybe that's why the studio track doesn't interest some listeners. When you listen to the shimmer and sparkle on other tracks, the arrangement of the instruments feels like a conscious demonstration of the technology in the building, Lindsey's serendipitous cleverness, and the expertise of the engineers. But Silver Springs feels totally committed to an expressive need to convey something that has profoundly shaken its songwriter. (Not in ten thousand years would any of Stevie's solo studio bands have built anything this complex and emotionally subdued around a song of hers.) That beauty is like a documentary of the moods in the room at Sausalito. The interplay of instruments -- like Japanese wind chimes -- feels like nature. What these musicians in their late 20s and early 30s did in 1976 with Silver Springs is the equal of the "feel" Peter, Jeremy, Mick, John, and Danny achieved with their greatest work in 1968 and '69.

Both Danny and Lindsey were devoted to the music of Django Reinhardt, and maybe there's a little Django in their best studio work.
I agree with so much of this. Silver Springs got re-introduced in 1997 and the updated live version did turn heads and it was fantastic. But many embraced this version because it turned out to be the showcase of The Dance.
The original version is a musical and lyrical masterpiece. Its very intricate. I like both versions but the studio version has that magical and mystical Fleetwood Mac sound that's SCREAMS the mid 70s Fleetwood Mac sound. Just listening to the music track without vocals would make people hit the buzzer and say - Thats Fleetwood Mac. Its also very Rumours not for only sound but the bitterness of breaking up with Lindsey. I can feel Stevie's sulk when she was told it was being left out. This song a B side is probably the best B side ever :lol: IMHO its better than Sara and many would melt down if Sara was left off Tusk or say it ruins the flow of Tusk ;)

Part of me LOVES that Silver Springs got its due in 1997. But part of this irks me because it was a Stevie Nicks song and it just reinforced the Stevie Nicks is Fleetwood Mac stuff. It also relaunched her solo career the next year with Enchanted. Maybe there was a Lindsey or Christine song lurking in their past could have also showcased the band in 1997 :)

Growing up in the 80s hearing Silver Springs on the radio was rare but it did happen. I remember running to the radio to turn it up. It was such a treat and made my day. Remember in those days you could not instantly hear a song unless you owned a copy. I did not own a 45 of GYOW so I was lost in the shuffle. BTW, praising Silver Spring should not equate not liking IDWTK. That is a false narrative.

SS is my second favorite musical track of the Mac (Oh Daddy being #1). These are not my all time favorite Mac songs but the musical tracks to these songs are pure magic with Lindsey on guitar and that classic thumping rhythm section of Fleetwood Mac. Even Chris's sparkling piano is pure joy. Its magic! Yes, its better than dreams!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqOLTlZ_CcM

On Ice

02-12-2022, 07:34 AM

I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face lol, Silver Springs is the best song Stevie nicks ever wrote and everything about it is spot on. The melody, the music, the lyrics, her perfect vocals- at the height of her talent, wow, just wow. Should've, would've could've, been released it ahead of Rumours as a single- we would not be talking about it as a Dance triumph (it is), but in the context of their classic work. It didn't have to make the track list on Rumours to still have an impact. The band had a history of singles not being on albums, so it would've been a great marketing tool. The song is everything that made Stevie great in the first place and if her writing had continued in this form, imagine how many songs would've been covered by others over the years. Instead, she deteriorated to Welcome to the Room...Sara :shocked:

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 09:14 AM

and then of course she and LB kept acting out those same emotions throughout the rest of their tours. she really should have done it with Finn. i bet it wouldn't change her longstanding act, like it didn't on the other songs.
The classics like Silver Springs, Sara, Songbird, Over My Head were missed by me at the last tour. But I'm a believer in that they should've only played '75 on songs (including BTM songs) because Stevie wasn't on the Green, Kirwan, and Welch stuff. But I know there are fans who wanted the blues rock played. I wasn't happy when they did Oh Well in 2009.

Certainly Crystal, Love is Dangerous, and Freedom would've been more appropriate to sing rather than Don't Dream It's Over, I Got You and Free Falling.

aleuzzi

02-12-2022, 10:36 AM

Macfan4life

02-12-2022, 11:16 AM

I agree with you regarding the quality of the orchestration. There are some quality moments in the backing track. But for me, the main problem with SS in its original form is Stevie Nicks. Her vocal doesn’t command the song. Her singing sounds a bit like scratch vocals for another more confident singer to work from. Before its 1997 reemergence I used to find the song “pleasant” but “transitional” because she couldn’t manage the right vocal attack. All of that changed in 1997 when her voice wrapped perfectly around the melody.
I totally got the same feeling. Stevie took command of SS in 1997 and her vocal brought out the power of the song. However, the fragility of her voice and singing from the 1977 studio version creates a very vulnerable singer and vocal.
When I heard the 1997 version live, I instantly liked it and immediately thought it was better because her vocal was standing up to this guy. It brought the song to another level. But after all these years, the studio musical track and vocal beats out the Dance. I think we were all under the Dance spell (or maybe just me). I love the vulnerability of her vocal. Its very similar to Sara. The studio track wanders and her vocal shows vulnerability. However Sara live takes the song to new levels. Its powerful. I suppose each is good for their own reasons. But if someone put a gun to my head and said, PICK. I would pick the studio track.

bwboy

02-12-2022, 12:30 PM

The classics like Silver Springs, Sara, Songbird, Over My Head were missed by me at the last tour. But I'm a believer in that they should've only played '75 on songs (including BTM songs) because Stevie wasn't on the Green, Kirwan, and Welch stuff. But I know there are fans who wanted the blues rock played. I wasn't happy when they did Oh Well in 2009.

Certainly Crystal, Love is Dangerous, and Freedom would've been more appropriate to sing rather than Don't Dream It's Over, I Got You and Free Falling.

Oh man, I love your thinking here! Although I have to admit, I had no problem with Don’t Dream It’s Over and Free Falling being performed. But Crystal, Love is Dangerous, and Freedom would have been awesome. I Don’t Want to Know, also. And instead of All Over Again (which I enjoyed), As Long As You Follow would have been the ultimate for me.

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 12:41 PM

Oh man, I love your thinking here! Although I have to admit, I had no problem with Don’t Dream It’s Over and Free Falling being performed. But Crystal, Love is Dangerous, and Freedom would have been awesome. I Don’t Want to Know, also. And instead of All Over Again (which I enjoyed), As Long As You Follow would have been the ultimate for me.
I think if you're proud of your own work, you play it for an audience! I would have loved to have heard Save Me, Skies the Limit, No Questions Asked over the pre-75 stuff.
Love is Dangerous would've been great with Neil. But BTM wasn't touched.
Don't Dream, I Got You, and Free Falling shouldn't have been in a Fleetwood Mac 50 Years set. They may as well have done Super Freak, If I Can't Have You, and Night Fever if they weren't going to do FM songs.

Sorry but I don't like All Over Again, it dragged for me and it was tacky that the lyrics were on the screen. Warm Ways would've been a perfect closer.

bwboy

02-12-2022, 12:54 PM

I think if you're proud of your own work, you play it for an audience! I would have loved to have heard Save Me, Skies the Limit, No Questions Asked over the pre-75 stuff.
Love is Dangerous would've been great with Neil. But BTM wasn't touched.
Don't Dream, I Got You, and Free Falling shouldn't have been in a Fleetwood Mac 50 Years set. They may as well have done Super Freak, If I Can't Have You, and Night Fever if they weren't going to do FM songs.

Sorry but I don't like All Over Again, it dragged for me and it was tacky that the lyrics were on the screen. Warm Ways would've been a perfect closer.

Anything from the BTM lineup would have filled me with so much joy! That’s why I hope there’s still a chance BTM will get the Deluxe treatment.

Super Freak performed by Christine might have rocked LOL! If I Can’t Have You by Mike? Priceless! LOL

HomerMcvie

02-12-2022, 12:56 PM

Love is Dangerous would've been great with Neil. But BTM wasn't touched.

Could that be because they ignored inviting Billy and Rick back, after $tevie got Lindsey fired? Billy was PISSED about not being invited back into the band.

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 01:03 PM

Could that be because they ignored inviting Billy and Rick back, after $tevie got Lindsey fired? Billy was PISSED about not being invited back into the band.
I didn't think of that. But Billy does sing on the chorus of All Over Again though, right?

I add that there aren't any Billy or Rick songs on the 50 Years compilation which is not right. Yet they have Peacekeeper, SYW, and Sad Angel on it.

elle

02-12-2022, 01:21 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mick Fleetwood Opens Up About Lindsey Buckingham And Stevie Nicks' Current Relationship <a href="https://t.co/i8bDZ6kJLW">https://t.co/i8bDZ6kJLW</a> <a href="https://t.co/FNp0q9nV0n">pic.twitter.com/FNp0q9nV0n</a></p>— Metalhead Zone (@metalheadzone1) <a href="https://twitter.com/metalheadzone1/status/1492545838421266432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mick Fleetwood Opens Up About Lindsey Buckingham And Stevie Nicks’ Current Relationship
Su Yeniocak
February 12, 20222 mins read

Fleetwood Mac co-founder Mick Fleetwood recently mentioned the complicated relationships between Fleetwood Mac members Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham. Touching upon the relationship that has become a spider web, he wished to have resolved everything.

The drummer Mick Fleetwood formed Fleetwood Mac in 1967 with the guitarists Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer. The band went through a few lineup changes, but their career took a successful turn after the folk-duo Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined in 1974 as an inseparable couple. Fleetwood Mac earned their places on the top of the charts with their new pop-rock hit songs.

Their personal relationships were as dramatic as they were successful. Joining as a romantic couple, Buckingham and Nicks went through an awkward and tense phase after their breakup. However, they were still able to work together as ex-partners for Fleetwood Mac. In fact, their separation even inspired them to create hit songs, often targeting each other.

Nonetheless, in 2018, Stevie Nicks expressed that she couldn’t bear Buckingham and his mocking attitude anymore. She gave the band the ultimatum saying that either Buckingham leaves or Nicks will. The band took Nicks’ side and fired Buckingham on the grounds that Nicks doesn’t want to appear on stage with him ever again. Even though Buckingham went back to his solo career afterward, the tensions were not completely resolved, which according to Mick Fleetwood, was upsetting.

Here is what Mick Fleetwood said about Nicks and Buckingham:

“I’ll just say it… Stevie and Lindsey, I don’t think certainly, are resolved fully, and I wish they were, I visualize those moments as the years trickle by somehow. But I truly, somewhat sadly think that that will go into the rainbow somewhere and never really change. But there you go.”

Buckingham and Nicks’ relationship ended in 1977, but they continued to work together. The tensions started to build up after Nicks fell in love with Mick Fleetwood and Buckingham got uncomfortable. In 1987, Buckingham quit Fleetwood Mac later to reunite, because he wanted a break from his ex-girlfriend and to focus on his solo work.

https://rockcelebrities.net/mick-fleetwood-opens-up-about-lindsey-buckingham-and-stevie-nicks-current-relationship/

Macfan4life

02-12-2022, 02:18 PM

elle

02-12-2022, 02:27 PM

I take issue with the line "the band took Nick's side and fired Buckingham".

It should read: "the band was blackmailed by Nick's efforts to cast out and fire Buckingham before going on tour. Nicks is a huge draw for "Fleetwood Mac fans" The band members went along with Nicks's ultimatum to secure lucrative tour proceeds.

Sorry :( I've always been a stickler for correcting the record

i have a possible correction to your correction :laugh:

band members were blackmailed by managers/promoters to take Nicks' side or be fired themselves.

Nicks plus a mishmash of random players would become new "Fleetwood Mac" jukebox band similarly to other oldies under the same management.

bombaysaffires

02-12-2022, 03:01 PM

You couldn't have the band bring in new players, especially ones so prominent in their own right, and not honor their work before FM in any way. It's exactly like when S&L joined, FM did Buckingham Nicks stuff like Don't Let Me Down Again live which, if I were a fan from the Welch or even Green days I'd think, "wtf are we playing that crap at a FM show??" And one could argue none of the BuckNicks songs were ever Top40 hits like Don't Dream It's Over or anything Mike would have written for the Heartbreakers. So while Mike and Neil's songs aren't part of the FM past, they were part of the FM present at that time. You can't bring people into a band and tell them nothing they've done prior to joining is worthy-- Chris/Mick/John didn't do that to unknowns like Stevie and Lindsey....and they certainly aren't going to do it to established people like Mike and Neil. And from a marketing standpoint, what's the value in alienating fans those two might bring to FM shows?? ka-ching.

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 03:12 PM

HomerMcvie

02-12-2022, 03:16 PM

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 03:30 PM

This ain't 1975. FM was barely hanging on by a thread when $&L joined, so they were much freer to do what they wanted(notice loser Mick was their manager too, so anything was game).

Doing Neil and Mike's songs cheapened the FM show, although I get that they might have been promised that, when joining the tour.
You know that Free Falling wasn't written by Mike... it was a Tom solo song!

HomerMcvie

02-12-2022, 03:33 PM

You know that Free Falling wasn't written by Mike... it was a Tom solo song!

You're right. I didn't even think about that. While I like Tom Petty, I've never been more than a casual fan.

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 03:39 PM

You're right. I didn't even think about that. While I like Tom Petty, I've never been more than a casual fan.
Full Moon Fever album with Jeff Lynne.

For me, if the current FM had made new songs and played them in the tour set, I would've endorsed the 3 covers(Neil and Tom hit songs) they did because you actually made a name for yourself in the new band you join by making new songs with them; Rick and Billy are titans for doing BTM.

HomerMcvie

02-12-2022, 05:00 PM

SteveMacD

02-12-2022, 07:00 PM

You know that Free Falling wasn't written by Mike... it was a Tom solo song!

However, Mike played guitar on it and was a coproducer.

Furthermore, Mike played and produced Stevie’s cover. The fact that Stevie recorded it as a solo artist puts that one in a slightly different category. It’s no different than when they did Chicken Shack’s cover of “I’d Rather Go Blind” after Christine joined. Actually, since Mike played on the original and on Stevie’s cover, it might even be slightly more appropriate.

bombaysaffires

02-12-2022, 07:59 PM

Full Moon Fever album with Jeff Lynne.

For me, if the current FM had made new songs and played them in the tour set, I would've endorsed the 3 covers(Neil and Tom hit songs) they did because you actually made a name for yourself in the new band you join by making new songs with them; Rick and Billy are titans for doing BTM.

I agree with this bit. And, of course, that was the baloney Mick and the band spewed when the two joined, right? That this WAS the new incarnation of FM and they WOULD be making new music together (after the tour presumably given that it was already booked).

Look, they didn't want the two guys to feel or worse to look like they were just hired hands (even though we know they were). I don't think you could get most already-famous people to play if you don't throw them at least some crumbs of acknowledging their own past works. Then again, maybe Vince Gill just sings Eagles material and that's it. But jeebus, the last thing I'd want FM to ever become is the Eagles. :shrug:

elle

02-12-2022, 08:40 PM

the last thing I'd want FM to ever become is the Eagles. :shrug:

well........... that's where they were going, no?

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 09:13 PM

However, Mike played guitar on it and was a coproducer.

Furthermore, Mike played and produced Stevie’s cover. The fact that Stevie recorded it as a solo artist puts that one in a slightly different category. It’s no different than when they did Chicken Shack’s cover of “I’d Rather Go Blind” after Christine joined. Actually, since Mike played on the original and on Stevie’s cover, it might even be slightly more appropriate.
Singing Stop Draggin' My Heart Around, I Will Run to You, or Insider with Neil would've been the most appropriate.
Stevie's 90s cover of Free Falling doesn't sound like the version FM did on tour.

Wasn't Chris also singing new Fleetwood Mac songs in addition to singing I'd Rather Go Blind in the set?

UnwindedDreams

02-12-2022, 09:18 PM

I agree with this bit. And, of course, that was the baloney Mick and the band spewed when the two joined, right? That this WAS the new incarnation of FM and they WOULD be making new music together (after the tour presumably given that it was already booked).

Mick said they were absolutely a new band. I don't get how you're a new band if you don't have new songs in your setlist.
They had from Winter of 2018 until October of 2018 to come up with new songs that could've been played in the set. It would've been awesome.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 12:15 AM

Wasn't Chris also singing new Fleetwood Mac songs in addition to singing I'd Rather Go Blind in the set?

Not that it’s relevant, since she hadn’t released any of her songs with Fleetwood Mac by that point, but they did play a very early version of “Spare Me A Little” that was pretty far removed from the Bare Trees version.

However, the logic is pretty much the same. How were “Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby” and “I’d Rather Go Blind” relevant to a Fleetwood Mac setlist in 1970?

People can come up with whatever rule or justification that suits their particular narrative, but the fact remains that “Get Like You Used To Be,” “I’d Rather Go Blind,” “Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby,” “Frozen Love,” “Don’t Let Me Down, Again,” “Stand Back,” “Tear It Up,” “Only You Know & I Know,” “Dear Mr. Fantasy,” “The Bigger the Love,” and “Go Insane” weren’t Fleetwood Mac songs. They were songs from another part of the performer’s career (solo, previous band) that the band played during Fleetwood Mac shows.

aleuzzi

02-13-2022, 01:25 AM

Not that it’s relevant, since she hadn’t released any of her songs with Fleetwood Mac by that point, but they did play a very early version of “Spare Me A Little” that was pretty far removed from the Bare Trees version.

However, the logic is pretty much the same. How were “Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby” and “I’d Rather Go Blind” relevant to a Fleetwood Mac setlist in 1970?

People can come up with whatever rule or justification that suits their particular narrative, but the fact remains that “Get Like You Used To Be,” “I’d Rather Go Blind,” “Crazy ‘Bout You, Baby,” “Frozen Love,” “Don’t Let Me Down, Again,” “Stand Back,” “Tear It Up,” “Only You Know & I Know,” “Dear Mr. Fantasy,” “The Bigger the Love,” and “Go Insane” weren’t Fleetwood Mac songs. They were songs from another part of the performer’s career (solo, previous band) that the band played during Fleetwood Mac shows.

On this score, I agree with you. “I’d Rather Go Blind” and “Get Like You Used to Be” feel like logical, even inevitable insertions to us die-hard fans, though we are seeing this with the benefit of hindsight. I wasn’t at a Fleetwood Mac show from 1970-1976, so my connection to these songs comes after years of hearing them on bootlegs and in their original forms. But fans of the Then Play On lineup may have asked themselves in 1970 what the heck was going on. Aural evidence from various bootlegs from 1970-74 shows those outside songs went down well, as did “Don’t Let Me Down Again” in 1975. Indeed, they became important staples. Similarly, many in the audiences who attended the most recent Fleetwood Mac tour seemed to enjoy “Free Falling” and “DDIO”—even if we who see the Rumours band as the legitimate lineup cringe at these embarrassing attempts to ignite some excitement in a lineup we regard as pretty sorry sans Lindsey.

HomerMcvie

02-13-2022, 02:34 AM

Then again, maybe Vince Gill just sings Eagles material and that's it. But jeebus, the last thing I'd want FM to ever become is the Eagles. :shrug:

Vince does one(at least on the last tour I saw) of his songs. "Next Big Thing"(at least I think that's the title) was what he did when I saw them.

bwboy

02-13-2022, 06:55 AM

Aural evidence from various bootlegs from 1970-74 shows those outside songs went down well, as did “Don’t Let Me Down Again” in 1975. Indeed, they became important staples. Similarly, many in the audiences who attended the most recent Fleetwood Mac tour seemed to enjoy “Free Falling” and “DDIO”—even if we who see the Rumours band as the legitimate lineup cringe at these embarrassing attempts to ignite some excitement in a lineup we regard as pretty sorry sans Lindsey.

Don’t Dream It’s Over was beautifully done and I loved the way it started off with Neil first, and then Stevie came on stage to join him. Free Falling, when I heard Stevie was singing it I was annoyed, but seeing it live was very moving and I changed my mind. It made me start to realize they may have limited themselves when they didn’t record other people’s songs. Blue Letter, Seven Wonders, and the Farmer’s Daughter are three of my favorite FM songs.

UnwindedDreams

02-13-2022, 08:26 AM

Not that itÂ’s relevant, since she hadnÂ’t released any of her songs with Fleetwood Mac by that point, but they did play a very early version of Â“Spare Me A LittleÂ” that was pretty far removed from the Bare Trees version.

However, the logic is pretty much the same. How were Â“Crazy Â‘Bout You, BabyÂ” and Â“IÂ’d Rather Go BlindÂ” relevant to a Fleetwood Mac setlist in 1970?

People can come up with whatever rule or justification that suits their particular narrative, but the fact remains that Â“Get Like You Used To Be,Â” Â“IÂ’d Rather Go Blind,Â” Â“Crazy Â‘Bout You, Baby,Â” Â“Frozen Love,Â” Â“DonÂ’t Let Me Down, Again,Â” Â“Stand Back,Â” Â“Tear It Up,Â” Â“Only You Know & I Know,Â” Â“Dear Mr. Fantasy,Â” Â“The Bigger the Love,Â” and Â“Go InsaneÂ” werenÂ’t Fleetwood Mac songs. They were songs from another part of the performerÂ’s career (solo, previous band) that the band played during Fleetwood Mac shows.
It is relevant. The band was playing new songs at the time.
Tear it Up was done while Billy and Rick were doing new FM songs. Traffic songs were done while new songs from Time were played.
Neil and Tom hits were played in an FM set with no new music, and no FM songs that Neil or Mike played on the recorded versions of.
And Mick made it a point to say in the CBS interview that these men don't have calling cards and sure enough, they performed the highest-charting songs by Neil and Tom in the set.

People can come up with whatever rule or justification that suits their particular narrative, but the fact remains that Free Falling was first recorded and released by Tom Petty and Crash Into Me was first recorded and released by Dave Matthews Band, so they're not Stevie Nicks songs.

UnwindedDreams

02-13-2022, 08:27 AM

Don’t Dream It’s Over was beautifully done and I loved the way it started off with Neil first, and then Stevie came on stage to join him.
It was a nice performance. I wondered why Taku and Ricky played on the song rather than Mick and Christine.

HomerMcvie

02-13-2022, 10:52 AM

It was a nice performance. I wondered why Taku and Ricky played on the song rather than Mick and Christine.

Most likely because they're 100 years old. To give them enough time to drink an Ensure and get their Depends changed.

Macfan4life

02-13-2022, 11:11 AM

Most likely because they're 100 years old. To give them enough time to drink an Ensure and get their Depends changed.
I did not see those shows but it annoyed me greatly that during rehearsals with 2 new members they wanted to play older tunes to showcase the new members. Also without Lindsey they could dig deeper. What did they do anyway? Lindsey songs and the audience could not even have interest in Black Magic Woman unless Stevie sang it. What does that tell you? Hypnotized was the perfect fit for Neil yet it was played only a few times and dropped because the audience had no idea what song that was. Even the Crowded House song had to feature Stevie to keep the bathroom breaks to a minimum. These are the reasons Irving demands $tevie get so much money because she is the only one to keep them in their seats. If Fleetwood Mac cant perform a Mac classic Black Magic Woman without Stevie on lead vocals, it tells you Irving is on to something.

I would have opened with a heavy metal version of Green Manalishi and blew everyone out of their seats. Then Station Man before The Chain. Grab the audience when you can before the first beer run.

HomerMcvie

02-13-2022, 11:20 AM

I did not see those shows but it annoyed me greatly that during rehearsals with 2 new members they wanted to play older tunes to showcase the new members. Also without Lindsey they could dig deeper. What did they do anyway? Lindsey songs and the audience could not even have interest in Black Magic Woman unless Stevie sang it. What does that tell you? Hypnotized was the perfect fit for Neil yet it was played only a few times and dropped because the audience had no idea what song that was. Even the Crowded House song had to feature Stevie to keep the bathroom breaks to a minimum. These are the reasons Irving demands $tevie get so much money because she is the only one to keep them in their seats. If Fleetwood Mac cant perform a Mac classic Black Magic Woman without Stevie on lead vocals, it tells you Irving is on to something.

Unfortunately, if PROFITS is the bottom line(no pun intended), Irving is onto something. This hasn't been about art(except Lindsey) for a LONG TIME. It's about filling seats, and maximizing profits. Even though half of us here are Fleetwood Mac fans(not $tevie fans masquerading as FM fans), they know that the majority of the concert ticket buying public are there to see the old goat.

Although I do love having a designated pee song. Big Love was my pee song for the past few shows I saw(since they hadn't done Oh Daddy for a long time).:p

bwboy

02-13-2022, 12:28 PM

Lindsey songs and the audience could not even have interest in Black Magic Woman unless Stevie sang it. What does that tell you? Hypnotized was the perfect fit for Neil yet it was played only a few times and dropped because the audience had no idea what song that was. Even the Crowded House song had to feature Stevie to keep the bathroom breaks to a minimum. These are the reasons Irving demands $tevie get so much money because she is the only one to keep them in their seats. If Fleetwood Mac cant perform a Mac classic Black Magic Woman without Stevie on lead vocals, it tells you Irving is on to something.

At the concert I was at, there was no mass exodus for the bathroom when Neil sang Don’t Dream it’s Over, and Stevie wasn’t on stage when he started singing. I thought Stevie was great on Black Magic Woman, I mean the whole song by FM was great, she was just one component. Remember, not only Hypnotized was dropped, but also Storms, which was performed by Stevie. For whatever reason, the audience responded better to BMW than Storms and Hypnotized, but like you, I wish they would have kept both songs in the set.

Macfan4life

02-13-2022, 02:18 PM

At the concert I was at, there was no mass exodus for the bathroom when Neil sang Don’t Dream it’s Over, and Stevie wasn’t on stage when he started singing. I thought Stevie was great on Black Magic Woman, I mean the whole song by FM was great, she was just one component. Remember, not only Hypnotized was dropped, but also Storms, which was performed by Stevie. For whatever reason, the audience responded better to BMW than Storms and Hypnotized, but like you, I wish they would have kept both songs in the set.
They know she is coming. If Stevie did not sing Dont Dream Its Over then you may have a point.

The biggest bathroom break I ever saw was during Over My Head in 1987. Stevie left the stage after Seven Wonders and it looked like a fire alarm. It was so disrespectful to the rest of the band. I felt so embarrassed for the band. All the stairs in the area were full of chiffon heads making their bathroom break :eek: Stevie has always provided good back up vocals on the song but in 1987 she was not on stage for Over My Head nor You Make Loving Fun.

bwboy

02-13-2022, 03:28 PM

They know she is coming. If Stevie did not sing Dont Dream Its Over then you may have a point.

I don’t know… the friends I went with didn’t know Stevie was coming onstage midway. I don’t know how many people really look to see what the setlist is, and even if they did, I don’t know if it says “Don’t Dream It’s Over by Neil, with Stevie joining mid-song.” Maybe it does describe it that way, and maybe a lot of people do look up the setlist, but my general belief is that most people don’t. Also, I can’t say that the majority of people at the concert I attended were primarily chiffonheads. FM has always gotten a lot of airplay in my area in Ohio, and I remember the crowd going wild for Christine’s songs.

elle

02-13-2022, 03:48 PM

i just remember reading all these reviews saying how DDIO received the most rousing audience reactions and random people on social saying how DDIO was their absolute highlight of the show and thinking - how embarrassing for FM brand.

and of course that was a weird watered down DDIO version plus that sad version of I Got You (while it lasted) and just Finn's whole onstage performance which is normally much more spontaneous and far less choreographed and restrained.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 05:59 PM

It is relevant. The band was playing new songs at the time.
No, that’s an arbitrary rule you’re setting for Fleetwood Mac playing songs that weren’t recorded by Fleetwood Mac.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 06:07 PM

They know she is coming. If Stevie did not sing Dont Dream Its Over then you may have a point.
DDIO was the second highest charting song in the set. It was one of the most iconic hits of the ‘80s. Once Neil started strumming the chords, the cellphone lighters came out.

Macfan4life

02-13-2022, 06:53 PM

DDIO was the second highest charting song in the set. It was one of the most iconic hits of the ‘80s. Once Neil started strumming the chords, the cellphone lighters came out.
Chart positions of songs not recorded by the band on stage just shows how lame the crowded house was ;)
So if they played Like A Virgin (it was #1 for 9 weeks), the crowd would have loved it even more? I just dont think the crowd knows or cares about chart positions :lol:

I'm a Fleetwood Mac fan and I prefer to hear their songs especially deep cuts. I bet the songs that never charted like The Chain and Gold Dust Woman got the lion share of the applause.

UnwindedDreams

02-13-2022, 07:28 PM

No, that’s an arbitrary rule you’re setting for Fleetwood Mac playing songs that weren’t recorded by Fleetwood Mac.
It's not arbitrary. Since Christine, new members that joined FM performed new songs on their debut tours with Fleetwood Mac.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 08:09 PM

Chart positions of songs not recorded by the band on stage just shows how lame the crowded house was ;)
So if they played Like A Virgin (it was #1 for 9 weeks), the crowd would have loved it even more?
If Madonna somehow ended up in Fleetwood Mac and the band played her biggest hit, one of the biggest, most iconic of the ‘80s, yeah, I’d expect the crowd reaction to be massive.

To your larger point, I doubt most people know or care about chart positions, even amongst the Fleetwood Mac songs.

My point was that DDIO wasn’t exactly an obscure song. It’s every bit as iconic as anything else that in a typical Fleetwood Mac setlist.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 08:23 PM

It's not arbitrary. Since Christine, new members that joined FM performed new songs on their debut tours with Fleetwood Mac.

Fleetwood Mac playing songs from a member’s repertoire outside of Fleetwood Mac is the same regardless if there was new music or not. It’s still Fleetwood Mac playing not Fleetwood Mac songs.

Fleetwood Mac not playing new songs is a different discussion. Neil and Mike, as well as Christine and Mick, wanted to make a new album, just like Lindsey before them. Same reason why it didn’t happen. Shame, too, since the Dirty Knobs and Crowded House released great albums since the tour, too. A lot of “Dreamers Are Waiting” was written for Fleetwood Mac.

bombaysaffires

02-13-2022, 08:41 PM

It is relevant. The band was playing new songs at the time.
Tear it Up was done while Billy and Rick were doing new FM songs. Traffic songs were done while new songs from Time were played.
Neil and Tom hits were played in an FM set with no new music, and no FM songs that Neil or Mike played on the recorded versions of.
And Mick made it a point to say in the CBS interview that these men don't have calling cards and sure enough, they performed the highest-charting songs by Neil and Tom in the set.

People can come up with whatever rule or justification that suits their particular narrative, but the fact remains that Free Falling was first recorded and released by Tom Petty and Crash Into Me was first recorded and released by Dave Matthews Band, so they're not Stevie Nicks songs.

to be nitpicky, he said they didn't have to have a calling card. Which is a reference to back in the days before telephones etc existed, people had to go around to each other's houses to get in touch with each other. If someone came to your door and you didn't know them or you knew them but didn't want to see them, you had your butler or whoever answered the door say you weren't available and the person coming to see you left one of their cards with their name printed on it (like a modern business card, now also mostly obsolete) to let you know they had "called" on you. Making someone leave their calling card was a form of superiority... 'leave your card and maybe I'll get back to you'. Thus Mick's comment that these two men were famous in their own right and don't need to have a calling card was a way of saying they were not in any way less-than to anyone in FM and were peers and respected as such. So to me part of that respect is not telling either of these guys the stuff they did before FM is irrelevant and less important than FM songs. Why would those guys tolerate that ?

Anyway, sorry, I've been immersed in a history research project for so long now I can't help myself nitpicking details. :sorry: :shrug:

UnwindedDreams

02-13-2022, 09:39 PM

Fleetwood Mac playing songs from a member’s repertoire outside of Fleetwood Mac is the same regardless if there was new music or not. It’s still Fleetwood Mac playing not Fleetwood Mac songs. However, in the previous FM lineups, a member who played a song from that member's repertoire outside of FM wrote or contributed to a Fleetwood Mac studio recording as a member of FM.

Fleetwood Mac not playing new songs is a different discussion. Neil and Mike, as well as Christine and Mick, wanted to make a new album, just like Lindsey before them. Same reason why it didn’t happen. Shame, too, since the Dirty Knobs and Crowded House released great albums since the tour, too. A lot of “Dreamers Are Waiting” was written for Fleetwood Mac.
Well isn't Find Your Way Back home an FM song because it has four FM members on it?:p

I like Wreckless Abandon. I don't like the new Wicked Mind song lyrically.

Dreamers Are Waiting has 2 songs I like.

UnwindedDreams

02-13-2022, 09:44 PM

to be nitpicky, he said they didn't have to have a calling card. Which is a reference to back in the days before telephones etc existed, people had to go around to each other's houses to get in touch with each other. If someone came to your door and you didn't know them or you knew them but didn't want to see them, you had your butler or whoever answered the door say you weren't available and the person coming to see you left one of their cards with their name printed on it (like a modern business card, now also mostly obsolete) to let you know they had "called" on you. Making someone leave their calling card was a form of superiority... 'leave your card and maybe I'll get back to you'. Thus Mick's comment that these two men were famous in their own right and don't need to have a calling card was a way of saying they were not in any way less-than to anyone in FM and were peers and respected as such. So to me part of that respect is not telling either of these guys the stuff they did before FM is irrelevant and less important than FM songs. Why would those guys tolerate that ?

Anyway, sorry, I've been immersed in a history research project for so long now I can't help myself nitpicking details. :sorry: :shrug:
I think I understand you. I think being respectful to Neil would've been letting him play Distant Sun, Mean to Me, or anything besides Something so Strong, I Got You or DDIO.
Neil did say in his introduction to DDIO that he was asked to play it.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 10:11 PM

I think I understand you. I think being respectful to Neil would've been letting him play Distant Sun, Mean to Me, or anything besides Something so Strong, I Got You or DDIO.
Neil did say in his introduction to DDIO that he was asked to play it.

Better Be Home Soon!

That’s the one he was pissed, well, as pissed as he gets, that wasn’t a hit.

SteveMacD

02-13-2022, 10:24 PM

However, in the previous FM lineups, a member who played a song from that member's repertoire outside of FM wrote or contributed to a Fleetwood Mac studio recording as a member of FM.
Still, a not Fleetwood Mac song in the setlist is a not Fleetwood Mac song in the setlist.

Well isn't Find Your Way Back home an FM song because it has four FM members on it?:p
Well, technically, it had more members than “Twisted” and the same amount as on “Can’t Help Falling In Love.” However, at least Stevie wasn’t completely opposed to the entire concept of making a new recording with Neil Finn, which is more than can be said about Lindsey Buckingham. Really, Mick and John could be dubbed on that song and it’s a Fleetwood Mac song.

UnwindedDreams

02-14-2022, 12:14 PM

Still, a not Fleetwood Mac song in the setlist is a not Fleetwood Mac song in the setlist.

Well, technically, it had more members than “Twisted” and the same amount as on “Can’t Help Falling In Love.” However, at least Stevie wasn’t completely opposed to the entire concept of making a new recording with Neil Finn, which is more than can be said about Lindsey Buckingham. Really, Mick and John could be dubbed on that song and it’s a Fleetwood Mac song.
Then is Shake Your Money Maker an FM song? Just kidding! I hear you. It's odd to me that you had Neil and Mike singing and playing all those decades-old FM songs that they had nothing to do with. At least for the Tango Tour, Billy and Rick were playing brand new FM songs at the time in addition to the oldies. I know it wasn't Neil or Mike but rather Commander Nicks.

As far as Find Your Way Back Home, I agree - Stevie wanted nothing to do with Lindsey off stage.
Not sure if you knew but Stevie sent her vocals to Neil. So they didn't actually work together like she and Lindsey did on Sad Angel, Miss Fantasy, and Without You.

HomerMcvie

02-14-2022, 01:54 PM

Not sure if you knew but Stevie sent her vocals to Neil. So they didn't actually work together like she and Lindsey did on Sad Angel, Miss Fantasy, and Without You.

That's how it works now, these days.

My friend recorded a duet with Dolly Parton. I was all, "OMG, what's she like?", and all that. I was so disappointed to find that they never even met. Just sent their vocals back and forth on the innerwebs.

Whatever happened to getting together in the studio, doing a bunch of blow, and recording some magic? Sigh.....:laugh::wavey:

UnwindedDreams

02-14-2022, 07:23 PM

That's how it works now, these days.

My friend recorded a duet with Dolly Parton. I was all, "OMG, what's she like?", and all that. I was so disappointed to find that they never even met. Just sent their vocals back and forth on the innerwebs.

Whatever happened to getting together in the studio, doing a bunch of blow, and recording some magic? Sigh.....:laugh::wavey:
Yep, I know. I think Stevie recorded her vocals before the lockdown.

But then you have Bruce who went out to Indiana last year to record songs with Mellencamp.

HomerMcvie

02-14-2022, 11:34 PM

But then you have Bruce who went out to Indiana last year to record songs with Mellencamp.

Yeah, my friend got a pic with Bruce in a restaurant here(I live, half of the time, in the same town as Mellenhead - btw, Mellenhead is a Douche with a capital D!).

Macfan4life

02-15-2022, 05:15 AM

Yeah, my friend got a pic with Bruce in a restaurant here(I live, half of the time, in the same town as Mellenhead - btw, Mellenhead is a Douche with a capital D!).
Suckin on chilli dogs outside the Tastee Freez

jbrownsjr

02-16-2022, 11:16 AM

Suckin on chilli dogs outside the Tastee Freez

Stevie and Diane

DownOnRodeo

02-24-2022, 08:02 PM

So when the wave sort of hit, I think me and John, speaking certainly for myself, we'd had some reference to having something, and in truth the wave dissipated

So when the wave of nausea from this word salad hit, I think me and all of us, speaking certainly for myself, we'd had some reference to having eaten something rotten, and in truth the wave hasn't dissipated.

aleuzzi

03-01-2022, 02:46 PM

So when the wave of nausea from this word salad hit, I think me and all of us, speaking certainly for myself, we'd had some reference to having eaten something rotten, and in truth the wave hasn't dissipated.

Love it! That Mickspeak you cited is hilarious—and more than a little frustrating. He says so many words without ever saying anything. I used to think it was a language issue, a genuine struggle. Now I think his verbiage is the result of deliberately sidestepping truth. It’s a bit of idiot genius…