Buckingham blames “disoriented” Stevie Nicks for the lack of new Fleetwood Mac music [Archive]

ricohv

12-06-2021, 10:22 AM

By Paul Brannigan ( Classic Rock ) 12/6/21

Lindsey Buckingham says the fact that Fleetwood Mac haven’t released a new album since 2003 “wasn’t for lack of trying”

Lindsey Buckingham blames Stevie Nicks for the lack of new music from Fleetwood Mac, telling Classic Rock magazine that the fact that the legendary rock band haven’t released a studio album since 2003‘s Say You Will “wasn’t for lack of trying.”

Buckingham, who released a self-titled solo album earlier this year, was fired from Fleetwood Mac in 2018, and claimed earlier this year that Nicks was the catalyst for that decision: speaking with the LA Times, the guitarist said that Nicks issued a ‘him or me’ ultimatum to the band, in a bid to assert more control over the group, an accusation Nicks has denied.

Now, in a new interview running in the new issue of Classic Rock magazine, on sale on December 7, Buckingham suggests that his former partner’s reticence to get involved in the writing and recording of new Fleetwood Mac material is the reason there’s been no new album from the band in 18 years.

Buckingham claims that work had actually begun on a new Fleetwood Mac album back in 2012.

“I had a bunch of songs, and Mick [Fleetwood] and John [McVie] and I went in with the producer Mitchell Froom and cut a bunch of stuff,” he tells Classic Rock. “This was before Christine [McVie] returned to the band in 2014. We very much wanted to draw Stevie in, and for some reason she refused to participate.”

Buckingham claims that Nicks, “has sort of gotten a little bit disoriented in her wanting to pursue Stevie Nicks in capital letters, if you will.”

“I think she kind of lost track of her writing a little bit,” he says, “and maybe didn’t think she had anything she felt she could offer, and so did not want to be a part of it.”

“That effort to engage her was revamped again when Christine returned,” Buckingham says, “because it was like, ‘well, Christine’s back, maybe now Stevie will want to do this.’ Christine had a bunch of song ideas and I helped her with those, and we eventually went in the studio and cut those. And we were still hoping to make that a Fleetwood Mac album, and Stevie wouldn’t do it. That became the duet album that Christine and I did [2017’s Lindsey Buckingham Christine McVie]. So it wasn’t for lack of trying.”

Elsewhere in the interview, Buckingham suggests that he’s open to the idea of another reunion with the band.

“Who knows, maybe we’ll manage to see clear to have one more nice run out there,” he says. “That would be the proper way to go.”
https://www.loudersound.com/news/lindsey-buckingham-blames-disoriented-stevie-nicks-for-the-lack-of-new-fleetwood-mac-music?fbclid=IwAR3J3alC0t83iBu6obsaQ79rZmSjMYMUkrL7exBNO0KKmLtEDrrJRcZXfMI

elle

12-06-2021, 10:49 AM

nothing new, only confirming facts we knew.

HomerMcvie

12-06-2021, 11:12 AM

WHY would he want to go back to that?

It's OVER. Let it go.

jbrownsjr

12-06-2021, 11:41 AM

OMG!! Goat is the reason they don't have new music?? Holy wow!!

Macfan4life

12-06-2021, 01:05 PM

Lets psycho analyze (again)

Hmmmm. Why would Stevie after all her solo albums and going back and forth the the Mac after solo work suddenly want to pursue Stevie Nicks (in capital letters).

We dont have to be Sherlock or Watson to figure this out. Chris came back and was making music with Lindsey. She tried to torpedo the effort which did not work. They worked without her and her jealousy was more than she could do. Buck/Vie walked away from her and worked without her. She could not contain her jealous rage and demanded Lindsey be fired.

ricohv

12-06-2021, 01:44 PM

WHY would he want to go back to that?

It's OVER. Let it go.
I totally agree. But I wonder, if he's really serious about this: "Buckingham suggests that he’s open to the idea of another reunion with the band," doesn't he consider he might be shooting himself in the foot?
I think they have ALL lived in such an insular vacuum of money and fame that they really don't know how to just be normal people.
Maybe they should all be reduced to be cleaning ladies to bring themselves back down to earth.

UnwindedDreams

12-06-2021, 02:40 PM

Didn't they try to do an album in 2008? But Stevie said let's do a tour of what people want to hear called Unleashed: Hits. (Say You Love Me, Stand Back, Rhiannon, etc)

Lindsey had wanted to tour GOS more in 08.

bwboy

12-06-2021, 03:13 PM

UnwindedDreams

12-06-2021, 04:27 PM

Lindsey leaves out another possible explanation for why Stevie wouldn’t record a new album with FM- she doesn’t want to work with him again in the studio. But I can see why he wouldn’t want to mention that possibility.
Christine worked with Lindsey in the studio in 2014 and 2016 and even went on a Summer/Fall tour with him.

Why didn't Stevie record with the 2018 Mac? They had from February 2018 to October to make new music. Or during breaks of the tour or from November 2019 until lockdown in March of 2020.

That speaks more to me than not working with Lindsey. And even if it is not wanting to work with him, how does it make it right when you're a member of a band. Madam I'm Not the Boss I guess.

jbrownsjr

12-06-2021, 04:59 PM

elle

12-06-2021, 05:42 PM

Christine worked with Lindsey in the studio in 2014 and 2016 and even went on a Summer/Fall tour with him.

Why didn't Stevie record with the 2018 Mac? They had from February 2018 to October to make new music. Or during breaks of the tour or from November 2019 until lockdown in March of 2020.

That speaks more to me than not working with Lindsey. And even if it is not wanting to work with him, how does it make it right when you're a member of a band. Madam I'm Not the Boss I guess.

right. excuse of not wanting to work specifically with Lindsey is thoroughly dead and buried now. :thumbsup:

FM had 3 years without Lindsey now, and other songwriters all said they'd be happy to record together. in addition, most of them had a year and a half of sitting at home and doing nothing. they could have recorded more than one album sending music back and forth during that time.

UnwindedDreams

12-06-2021, 05:53 PM

Now I'm wondering if she wanted him fired because maybe he told her she's not creative anymore.

She used to be The Bomb but man she has become like The Eagles. Trying to sell the past. I bet she'll do a Bella Donna album performance tour followed by an intermission then a set of hits.

I'm so happy for Journey. They broke from Azoff and they're doing new music and an arena tour.

jbrownsjr

12-06-2021, 06:11 PM

UnwindedDreams

12-06-2021, 06:19 PM

She's tired. And her voice isn't pleasing in the least. Good for Journey!!
Azoff was the problem for Journey. Azoff has you tour every year doing the same shtick.

Journey is a great concert. They did Lollapalooza and NYC Homecoming festivals this year. Azoff never got them booked for gigs that big.

And they don't need to join Harry Styles at the hip in order to feed their families either.

bwboy

12-06-2021, 06:49 PM

Christine worked with Lindsey in the studio in 2014 and 2016 and even went on a Summer/Fall tour with him.

Why didn't Stevie record with the 2018 Mac? They had from February 2018 to October to make new music. Or during breaks of the tour or from November 2019 until lockdown in March of 2020.

That speaks more to me than not working with Lindsey. And even if it is not wanting to work with him, how does it make it right when you're a member of a band. Madam I'm Not the Boss I guess.

Yes I know Christine worked with Lindsey on the Buck/Vie album and they toured together. I don’t see how that how dismisses the idea that Stevie doesn’t want to work with Lindsey in the studio anymore. I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevie wasn’t really happy with Say You Will, either the recording of it or the end result, for whatever reason. It took forever to convince her to do the 4 song EP, and I think she’s only on 2 of those songs. I have no idea what her problem with Lindsey in the studio is, I mean the SYW documentary cast him in a very good light, in my opinion. But something clearly happened there that turned Stevie off with wanting to record with Lindsey again.

HomerMcvie

12-06-2021, 06:56 PM

UnwindedDreams

12-06-2021, 07:36 PM

Yes I know Christine worked with Lindsey on the Buck/Vie album and they toured together.
They worked together on a Fleetwood Mac album

I don’t see how that how dismisses the idea that Stevie doesn’t want to work with Lindsey in the studio anymore.
That Fleetwood Mac album had to become Lindsey Buckingham Christine McVie because one of the members of Fleetwood Mac did not participate. And when you're in a band, it's a team. In my home, I'm the boss, absolutely. But I'm not the boss in my band.

I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevie wasn’t really happy with Say You Will, either the recording of it or the end result, for whatever reason. It took forever to convince her to do the 4 song EP, and I think she’s only on 2 of those songs. I have no idea what her problem with Lindsey in the studio is, I mean the SYW documentary cast him in a very good light, in my opinion. But something clearly happened there that turned Stevie off with wanting to record with Lindsey again.
If you watch interviews for the Unleashed Tour, Stevie said the next time we tour we're going to have a new album so this one time we'll do all the songs you want to hear. That was 5 years after Say You Will. If she didn't want to record with Lindsey again because making and touring SYW was so bad, would she have told people in 2008 FM will make new music again? Or is it just her history of being a lying DJT before candidate DJT actually was born circa 2015?:laugh:

Stevie just doesn't like Lindsey having any decision making power. I agree with Homies offering about not being able to listen to Lindsey.

Mmonta4

12-06-2021, 07:45 PM

I love Stevie but I think what Lindsey said rings a lot of truth. Remember the days Stevie would say she went solo because she is a prolific song writer and had a back log of songs. Last time we heard new songs was in 2011 when she released In Your Dreams. What has she released since? 24 Karat Gold, Without You from the Fleetwood Mac EP, and Show Them the Way. All songs from the vault. I think Stevie is still a prolific writer; but of poems, not songs. In early interviews she often talked about being a song writer. Now it seems she refers to herself as a poet more often. Somewhere at sometime she stopped taking the poems to the piano it seems. Certainly this slump, for lack of a better word, does provide support what Lindsey says.

jbrownsjr

12-06-2021, 07:59 PM

Yes I know Christine worked with Lindsey on the Buck/Vie album and they toured together. I don’t see how that how dismisses the idea that Stevie doesn’t want to work with Lindsey in the studio anymore. I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevie wasn’t really happy with Say You Will, either the recording of it or the end result, for whatever reason. It took forever to convince her to do the 4 song EP, and I think she’s only on 2 of those songs. I have no idea what her problem with Lindsey in the studio is, I mean the SYW documentary cast him in a very good light, in my opinion. But something clearly happened there that turned Stevie off with wanting to record with Lindsey again.

If you really really want to know Bwboy. Getting KB pregnant turned out to be one of her buttons. (Who knew?) This happened at the end of The Dance.

She needed FMac for SYW. Eventually, having Christine back gave him an avenue to work without her. And that in my opinion was the straw that broke everything. He got to tour, make new music with HER band. When the rest of FM made fun of her, she cut him. It was the smart move for her business.

She absolutely doesn't want to be in the studio with him. She ALSO doesn't want to write new material. Look at the disaster her new song was, not to mention, beyond inappropriate. 24K was terrible worn out versions of some fantastic demos.

She wants to be the boss, make big money on tour 'STEVIE NICKS', stay relevant by playing the witch role and having youth around her. She does NOT want to spend the rest of her life with her ex lover, who HAD Christine, FM, a family, and lives of their own.

She took control of Fleetwood Mac for that reason. It's no accident that she brought in a guitarist that she could control. I know a lot of people want to bless her as the talented legend that wrote Dreams. But as someone said to me that had little clue about FMac. She said to me, "Stevie Nicks reminds me of like the Rosanne of rock and roll. She tries so hard to be a diva, when she's just a clueless entitled white person."

Storms123

12-06-2021, 08:57 PM

She sacked LB and brought in 2 songwriters (and guitarists) to replace him,who wanted to go into the studio and they still couldn't produce new material. The one new piece of new material she did spit out in lock down is downright awful and will make your ears bleed.. Yet, she happily covered anywhere anything anyone asked her too. Her dislike (I don't buy it completely though) of LB aside, it's not far fetched to say, creatively, the well has run dry. He's always been a PIA to her (and everyone else) in the studio, yet, he's the only one who can sort out her crazy style (Soldiers Angel--another one, even with LBs touch--can make your ears bleed). I'd actually be curious to see what he could do with "Show them the Way".
Tom Petty said LB was her best producer, and he's not wrong. And I think that is what pisses her off endlessly.

HomerMcvie

12-06-2021, 10:38 PM

"Stevie Nicks reminds me of like the Rosanne of rock and roll. She tries so hard to be a diva, when she's just a clueless entitled white person."

Ooh, no you didn't!:lol::lol::lol:

aleuzzi

12-06-2021, 11:52 PM

HomerMcvie

12-07-2021, 12:36 AM

“Christine had a bunch of song ideas and I helped her with those...”

It’s not incorrect but his wording, as usual, underplays Christine’s abilities. He always makes sure to let the world know he “helped her” or that “she wanted me to do that for her.” We get it Lindsey, you’re the genius.

I sound annoyed, sure, but I also have a great deal of respect for Lindsey as a songwriter, player, and arranger. I love the new album, even with all the breathy vocals. But man, his constant need to prop himself by underplaying Christine’s musical capabilities is really annoying. He never admits that her “musical ideas” are of interest in themselves.
Old I'm Not The Boss may be the standout star, but Christine is what balanced them all out, and made it work. She made them sound cohesive. That's why she had the most hits. She was the glue of FM.

sue

12-07-2021, 03:30 AM

“Christine had a bunch of song ideas and I helped her with those...”

It’s not incorrect but his wording, as usual, underplays Christine’s abilities. He always makes sure to let the world know he “helped her” or that “she wanted me to do that for her.” We get it Lindsey, you’re the genius.

I sound annoyed, sure, but I also have a great deal of respect for Lindsey as a songwriter, player, and arranger. I love the new album, even with all the breathy vocals. But man, his constant need to prop himself by underplaying Christine’s musical capabilities is really annoying. He never admits that her “musical ideas” are of interest in themselves.

I think in his own way he is as much a diva as Stevie.
He is annoying and imagine working in a studio with him when your already a power crazed paranoid yourself.
Enough to turn you into the weird and unrecognisable person you are today.

That said, the main reason she doesn’t get into a studio…..she has no new material, and is in love with the legend that is …”Stevie Nicks”

Macfan4life

12-07-2021, 05:17 AM

I see things a little bit different than some of you. IMHO she hid behind STEVIE NICKS for her excuse to stay away from the band. She purposely scheduled recordings and tours when she was aware Fleetwood Mac wanted to record and then tour. Yes ego was part of it but IMHO she purposely kept herself busy and used her fame to indirectly say "I dont need you, I dare you to do something without me>"

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 07:42 AM

I know a lot of people want to bless her as the talented legend that wrote Dreams. But as someone said to me that had little clue about FMac. She said to me, "Stevie Nicks reminds me of like the Rosanne of rock and roll. She tries so hard to be a diva, when she's (just) a clueless entitled white person."
Truly. Who could say they're writing a song about Dr. MLK Jr and Rep. John Lewis and make it about herself without entertainment media critiquing it? Stevie Nicks. Also, does she not need to be shown the way? Only we need to be shown?

Inducted as a solo artist when there were other women with more contributions to music and culture who hadn't been even nominated. Stevie Nicks

Cozy up to Azoff and he'll buy you want you want and ride your coattails.

jbrownsjr

12-07-2021, 08:46 AM

“Christine had a bunch of song ideas and I helped her with those...”

It’s not incorrect but his wording, as usual, underplays Christine’s abilities. He always makes sure to let the world know he “helped her” or that “she wanted me to do that for her.” We get it Lindsey, you’re the genius.

I sound annoyed, sure, but I also have a great deal of respect for Lindsey as a songwriter, player, and arranger. I love the new album, even with all the breathy vocals. But man, his constant need to prop himself by underplaying Christine’s musical capabilities is really annoying. He never admits that her “musical ideas” are of interest in themselves.

There are so many amazing songs she has without him. And, on the BuckVie record, she put lyrics to one of his songs and Too Far Gone came out of it. Furthermore, I attended his show and as happy as I am to see him, I honestly can barely tell what he plays on guitar anymore. No bass player..... so f*** right off with the same old, "I had to help Christine."

How the mighty have fallen! (And yes, I know he's been doing that for years) It's just really irritated me this time. Especially, down a bass player. :confused::distress:

On Ice

12-07-2021, 09:08 AM

Oh boy, a lot to unpack here. None of our idols are perfect by any means but if you look back, all that fame and fortune during the 76-78 period I think shifted this band permanently and lead to the periods that followed. Stevie in particular let the fame go to her head and she was annoying with her constantly commenting on record sales despite night after night of inconsistent performances, even during the heyday. Remember that the early 90's just about destroyed her career until the Dance comeback. Since then, it's been all about the legend (she did some spectacular music, but a legend, she is not). The sad fact is that her well of creativity dried up decades ago, she just can't write a great song anymore. Lindsey can be a bit much at times, but he's spot on with this and I'm glad he's finally put it out there.

blinker12

12-07-2021, 09:29 AM

I totally agree. But I wonder, if he's really serious about this: "Buckingham suggests that he’s open to the idea of another reunion with the band," doesn't he consider he might be shooting himself in the foot?

I thought the same thing. It's like, "Oh yeah, Stevie's disoriented and creatively tapped out and it's all her fault we didn't make new music." Beat. "But I'd sure like it if they/she invited me back!" Whaaaaat??

Lindsey leaves out another possible explanation for why Stevie wouldn’t record a new album with FM- she doesn’t want to work with him again in the studio. But I can see why he wouldn’t want to mention that possibility.

Also spot on. In fact, she's gone on the record saying as much. She's in her 70s and doesn't want or need to make herself unhappy anymore.

On the other hand, I do agree with the substance of what he's saying even though the WAY he's saying it is tone deaf and arrogant. She's been experiencing a very long and very linear erosion of confidence in her writing since the early 1980s. It seems unlikely anyone could turn that around now.

But sometimes I also look at it like this: She had her ultra-prolific period in the late 70s/early 80s; his has been much more recent. In the end, the two of them will probably come out about even in the amount of material they created. It's just that their timing was way different.

jbrownsjr

12-07-2021, 09:59 AM

I thought the same thing. It's like, "Oh yeah, Stevie's disoriented and creatively tapped out and it's all her fault we didn't make new music." Beat. "But I'd sure like it if they/she invited me back!" Whaaaaat??

Also spot on. In fact, she's gone on the record saying as much. She's in her 70s and doesn't want or need to make herself unhappy anymore.

On the other hand, I do agree with the substance of what he's saying even though the WAY he's saying it is tone deaf and arrogant. She's been experiencing a very long and very linear erosion of confidence in her writing since the early 1980s. It seems unlikely anyone could turn that around now.

But sometimes I also look at it like this: She had her ultra-prolific period in the late 70s/early 80s; his has been much more recent. In the end, the two of them will probably come out about even in the amount of material they created. It's just that their timing was way different.

I seriously think she's just tired. And doing anything new at this point is indeed a lot of work. And then doing it with someone that's constantly banging on you in the press, that happens to be your ex lover... Not something most 70+ year olds want to do.

But yea, she has said as much as, "I don't see working with him ever.. and don't know if that will change... " paraphrasing

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 10:24 AM

For me, what buries the "argument" that Stevie was creative back then and earned the chance to enjoy her legend now is that she herself said "I'm never doing the Stevie Nicks greatest hits tour again or the same show you've been seeing a million times" and when she said to Ellen with Sheryl Crow standing next to her in 2019 that she won't stop making albums because people dont listen to them.

Either she's a liar or something isn't working upstairs.

elle

12-07-2021, 12:50 PM

I thought the same thing. It's like, "Oh yeah, Stevie's disoriented and creatively tapped out and it's all her fault we didn't make new music." Beat. "But I'd sure like it if they/she invited me back!" Whaaaaat??

2 things can co-exist:

fact: Stevie has not been creative anymore and she did everything in her power to stop another Fleetwood Mac album.
fact: Lindsey sees Fleetwood Mac as his life's work and at 70+ does not want to be referred to as "former FM member" - he wants to still be a full-fledged member. that has everything to do with the band, and the only thing that has to do with Stevie is that she wants FM to be SN's band. Mick clearly has been fighting that.

equating SN with FM makes sense to the people who only care about SN and could not care less FM.

Lindsey wants to be a *current* part of Fleetwood Mac. because again - that's his life's work. people who yell he should move on at 70+ must be starting new careers after 70 and don't want any credit for what they did before they were 70, i guess?

elle

12-07-2021, 01:03 PM

I seriously think she's just tired. And doing anything new at this point is indeed a lot of work. And then doing it with someone that's constantly banging on you in the press, that happens to be your ex lover... Not something most 70+ year olds want to do.

But yea, she has said as much as, "I don't see working with him ever.. and don't know if that will change... " paraphrasing

you are talking about Lindsey right? that he should be tired of working with someone who has been constantly banging on him in the press for decades? saying over and over stuff like - he's a useless pothead... laying on the floor... playing guitar while i had to earn bread for us [working on our songs rarely makes it into that]... he cannot do anything... i had to support us [he bought all the recording equipment and worked as a touring musician so we can get ahead is never mentioned]...he left me in Aspen all alone [because he was earning money for us so we can keep recording never makes it into that]... and the list goes on. there is a reason her cult hates him - because she nurtured portraying him as useless (even called him "mr useless" about 5 or so years ago in some interview - remember that??) for decades.

Lindsey has let her get away with that forever, for peace in the band. is he spewing some facts now after she and her all-powerful manager managed to push him out of the band? sure. but that was not an excuse for firing, because he was not banging on her in the press then. he has every right to do it now.

HomerMcvie

12-07-2021, 01:34 PM

people who yell he should move on at 70+ must be starting new careers after 70 and don't want any credit for what they did before they were 70, i guess?

I think it would be humiliating for him, to go back and be in HER band. Because clearly, it is HER band now. $he holds the cards. How F*CKING EMASCULATING. It sucks, but $he won.:mad:

"Excuse me Miss Stevie, can I go to the bathroom now?"

And what's the point? Do they even have another tour in them? I don't think they do.

Him wanting to go back to HER band is PATHETIC.

BigAl84

12-07-2021, 01:36 PM

She either doesn't have a lot of material to work with that she still likes and/or the people she would use to help make the record are not available..or don't want to work with her.

It's already been documented that she had issues with Mike Campbell and she ghosted him after the tour when he sent her tracks to consider.

What's probably most likely the case - albums take a ton of work that she doesn't like doing at this point in time. She's just waiting to launch another greatest hits tour and hit the casino market.

elle

12-07-2021, 01:56 PM

I think it would be humiliating for him, to go back and be in HER band. Because clearly, it is HER band now. $he holds the cards. How F*CKING EMASCULATING. It sucks, but $he won.:mad:

while you obviously accepted (as she wanted FM fans to) that it is SN's band now, LB apparently has not, and he's fighting back. i don't think Mick has, either.

you are telling him he should accept it.

however, as you know, i personally and selfishly don't want him to go back. because i like creativity, new music, small venues, fast moving shows and not having to go bankrupt in order to see my favorite musician live.

but i get it why he's trying to set the record straight.

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 02:30 PM

It's already been documented that she had issues with Mike Campbell and she ghosted him after the tour when he sent her tracks to consider.

Didn't she yell at Mike to play a song like Lindsey did?

She ignored his tracks he sent her but she called him immensely talented in her response to Lindsey's September RollingStone interview. Though not by name, just an immensely talented musician:laugh:

jbrownsjr

12-07-2021, 02:33 PM

you are talking about Lindsey right? that he should be tired of working with someone who has been constantly banging on him in the press for decades? saying over and over stuff like - he's a useless pothead... laying on the floor... playing guitar while i had to earn bread for us [working on our songs rarely makes it into that]... he cannot do anything... i had to support us [he bought all the recording equipment and worked as a touring musician so we can get ahead is never mentioned]...he left me in Aspen all alone [because he was earning money for us so we can keep recording never makes it into that]... and the list goes on. there is a reason her cult hates him - because she nurtured portraying him as useless (even called him "mr useless" about 5 or so years ago in some interview - remember that??) for decades.

Lindsey has let her get away with that forever, for peace in the band. is he spewing some facts now after she and her all-powerful manager managed to push him out of the band? sure. but that was not an excuse for firing, because he was not banging on her in the press then. he has every right to do it now.

He shouldn't want to work with her or speak to her ever again!!!
I'm not saying his POV isn't valid. It certainly is. Hers is delusional. But, as I said, who knew getting someone else pregnant was one of her buttons.

Which was the genesis of the "post Christine, just the two of them" era.

jbrownsjr

12-07-2021, 02:39 PM

Didn't she yell at Mike to play a song like Lindsey did?

She ignored his tracks he sent her but she called him immensely talented in her response to Lindsey's September RollingStone interview. Though not by name, just an immensely talented musician:laugh:

What do you mean here? Don't remember her quote of this.

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 03:34 PM

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 04:38 PM

For me, what buries the "argument" that Stevie was creative back then and earned the chance to enjoy her legend now is that she herself said "I'm never doing the Stevie Nicks greatest hits tour again or the same show you've been seeing a million times"

And, her last solo tour and the last Fleetwood Mac tour were departures from said tour.

and when she said to Ellen with Sheryl Crow standing next to her in 2019 that she won't stop making albums because people dont listen to them.

Either she's a liar or something isn't working upstairs.

The exact quote was:

“We are the lucky ones because the reason to make an album is because A) you’re financially stable and B) because you just want to gather a bunch of people together that you love. But you know what, as long as you keep making music, you keep yourself in the…river of music.”

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 04:52 PM

What do you mean here? Don't remember her quote of this.
“To be exceedingly clear, I did not have him fired, I did not ask for him to be fired, I did not demand he be fired. Frankly, I fired myself. I proactively removed myself from the band and a situation I considered to be toxic to my wellbeing. I was done. If the band went on without me, so be it. And after many lengthy group discussions, Fleetwood Mac, a band whose legacy is rooted in evolution and change, found a new path forward with two hugely talented new members.”

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 05:49 PM

And, her last solo tour and the last Fleetwood Mac tour were departures from said tour.

A) you’re financially stable

Offering you the generosity of an explanation of A) which means you're financially stable so it doesn't matter if you don't make money on the album because people don't buy the album.

Her last solo tour of 5 years ago had more hits in it than any of her previous tours. The In Your Dreams Tour was her most ambitious setlist.

The 2018-2019 FM tour featured the least amount of Stevie's songs in recent years. Most of the 2018-2019 Tour setlist was the same as SYW-OWTS Tour. And with the addition of classic rock radio songs Hypnotized, Man of the World, and Tell Me All the Things- it was certainly a Greatest Hits Tour, even if songs weren't singles (Monday Morning, GDW, World Turning...they're hits)

Welcome back! How do you like Stolen Car by Elton?

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 06:03 PM

Between the time Lindsey left in 1987 and SYW in 2003 -SIXTEEN YEARS- he released one studio album and did two short tours. Stevie did four studio albums and eight tours in that same time. To date, she’s released one more album than him.
Steve, What are the 4 Stevie albums? Other Side, Street Angel, and Shangri-La. Are you counting Time Space? Thank you.

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 06:07 PM

Steve, What are the 4 Stevie albums? Other Side, Street Angel, and Shangri-La. Are you counting Time Space? Thank you.

Behind the Mask.

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 06:09 PM

Behind the Mask.
Lindsey did play on that album:laugh: Just joking.

But I see what you're saying

HomerMcvie

12-07-2021, 06:20 PM

while you obviously accepted (as she wanted FM fans to) that it is SN's band now, LB apparently has not, and he's fighting back. i don't think Mick has, either.

you are telling him he should accept it.

however, as you know, i personally and selfishly don't want him to go back. because i like creativity, new music, small venues, fast moving shows and not having to go bankrupt in order to see my favorite musician live.

but i get it why he's trying to set the record straight.

This last sh*t show tour is the first one I've EVER missed. I have accepted that it's Old I'm Not The Boss's band now. Notice it was my first tour ever missed? F*CK $tevie Nicks.

He can and should call her out for the POS she's become. But(again), to want to go back is pathetic.

I hate it when my underground bands "make it". I love seeing them with 300 people in a club.

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 06:25 PM

Offering you the generosity of an explanation of A) which means you're financially stable so it doesn't matter if you don't make money on the album because people don't buy the album.
They’re not my words. I’d assume that’s what she meant.

Her last solo tour of 5 years ago had more hits in it than any of her previous tours. The In Your Dreams Tour was her most ambitious setlist.

The 2018-2019 FM tour featured the least amount of Stevie's songs in recent years. Most of the 2018-2019 Tour setlist was the same as SYW-OWTS Tour. And with the addition of classic rock radio songs Hypnotized, Man of the World, and Tell Me All the Things- it was certainly a Greatest Hits Tour, even if songs weren't singles (Monday Morning, GDW, World Turning...they're hits)
She/they also did obscure stuff, like “Crying In The Night” and “All Over Again” (from easily the most obscure Fleetwood Mac album ever). Then again, the 2018 shows I saw were earlier in the tour.

How do you like Stolen Car by Elton?
I’m not an Elton John fan to begin with. The last thing she was on that I listened to was the song with Neil Finn. Furthermore, I’ve only listened to three of Lindsey’s new songs.

This thread is kind of hilarious to me. That it’s still a conversation is kind of pathetic, starting with Lindsey.

I mean, sure, she stalled as a singer and songwriter, but he stalled as a producer and songwriter. His sped up acoustic guitar, simple bass, sparse drums, extraneous percussion, comically distorted guitar solos, Fairlight backing vocals, and introspective psychobabble lyrics do as much for me as her nasally monotone vocals. Both have been in a creative state of arrested development since the mid-80s if we’re being honest.

1981 Lindsey Buckingham would want to choke the crap out of 2021 Lindsey Buckingham. Dredging up four year old drama, picking fights in the press, and name dropping. He’s become every bit the caricature of his former self as has Stevie.

HomerMcvie

12-07-2021, 06:40 PM

1981 Lindsey Buckingham would want to choke the crap out of 2021 Lindsey Buckingham. Dredging up four year old drama, picking fights in the press, and name dropping. He’s become every bit the caricature of his former self as has Stevie.

I've said this since the beginning. Tusk Lindsey would've told them to kiss his ass, and never looked back. He looks desperate now. Not a good look.

How many millions do you have, Lindsey? Good god, don't go back with your tail between your legs. Be Johnny Cash, and have your middle finger up for every pic taken of you. "That's for you, $tevie!"

UnwindedDreams

12-07-2021, 07:02 PM

She/they also did obscure stuff, like “Crying In The Night” and “All Over Again” (from easily the most obscure Fleetwood Mac album ever). Then again, the 2018 shows I saw were earlier in the tour.
I definitely had fun at the 2016 Stevie shows I went to. Crying in the Night was such a short performance. I think under 3 minutes! The novelty of that tour for me was the stage production. It was stunning.

But for In Your Dreams tour, she did 7 songs from IYD and 3 from Trouble in Shangri-La so a lot of new/recent material.

Yes, All Over Again they played at the shows I went to as the final song. I wished they would've done Hollywood or Nights in Estoril rather than a depressing ballad from Time. I wanted more Stevie songs like Beautiful Child, Crystal, Sisters of the Moon, or Destiny Rules. But Stevie did the 5 usuals (Dreams, Landslide, Rhiannon, Gypsy, Gold Dust) and covered other people's songs.

I mean, sure, she stalled as a singer and songwriter, but he stalled as a producer and songwriter. His sped up acoustic guitar, simple bass, sparse drums, extraneous percussion, comically distorted guitar solos, Fairlight backing vocals, and introspective psychobabble lyrics do as much for me as her nasally monotone vocals. Both have been in a creative state of arrested development since the mid-80s if we’re being honest.

You don't like the Out of the Cradle album?

jbrownsjr

12-07-2021, 07:32 PM

1981 Lindsey Buckingham would want to choke the crap out of 2021 Lindsey Buckingham. Dredging up four year old drama, picking fights in the press, and name dropping. He’s become every bit the caricature of his former self as has Stevie.

I just saw him in Los Angeles. To be fair the fake vocals were fantastic.
It's honestly the most non genius, non organic, non forward thing I've seen in a very long time.

He was afraid of 1977's Rumours vibe bleeding them into Tusk. Yet, from prior to BuckVie til now, he's doing the same arrangement on everything.

The Big Love version he's been doing since 1997 is so tired and over done, I can't imagine how he thinks he is doing anything creative. And the yelps aren't really unique anymore.

I love his new album. It's really a very lovely album. And I've been able to listen to it incessantly. There's not really anything new here, however. (Swan Song has finally a different beat) I won't get into the plagarized news of that.

Drop in and listen to Go Insane. Listen to DW Suite in headphones. ..if we go go go go go go go go insane sane sane sane sane sane, we can all al al go together ether ether ether ether ether.... Now there's a journey.

But live, these pieces feel like nearly the same arrangements. LB, guitar, and tons of backing tracks with the illusion that you're hearing everything played and sung. Again, I know he's been doing it for years. But, lord have mercy. You're in a theater. Have the band play, get a bass player, and sing like Stevie, (no matter how nasal or off key and horrible it sounds). I'm not paying to see you fake it. Do another Q and A at the grammy museum if that's what you want.

elle

12-07-2021, 08:24 PM

love how our threads just roll off the topic so effortlessly :lol:

the point of Lindsey's interview is pretty straightforward and we all know true:

Stevie Nicks prevented Fleetwood Mac releasing any new albums since SYW in 2013.

everyone else in that band wanted to release new music. just look at Mick's interviews hoping she will join them, back in 2013, and then both Mick and Christine's in 2014-15, even 2016. SN singlehandedly managed to prevent what every other band member wanted.

apparently there are a lot of people out there (not on this board) who don't like these facts being brought up, so they try to muddy the waters.

elle

12-07-2021, 08:28 PM

I've said this since the beginning. Tusk Lindsey would've told them to kiss his ass, and never looked back. "

on the other hand, Tusk Lindsey seemed to have been a drugged out and drunk out of his mind nasty human.

modern day Lindsey is a warm nice down to earth human being, still creating some good music and having tons of fun on stage.

i'm glad i never met Tusk Lindsey.

SteveMacD

12-07-2021, 09:24 PM

You don't like the Out of the Cradle album?

It’s okay. “Street of Dreams” is a masterpiece.

I’m not sure it was worth the five year wait. It definitely would have benefited from Mick and John. I’m not super impressed that he did most of the instrumentation himself. It makes it feel synthetic.

HomerMcvie

12-07-2021, 10:49 PM

on the other hand, Tusk Lindsey seemed to have been a drugged out and drunk out of his mind nasty human.

modern day Lindsey is a warm nice down to earth human being, still creating some good music and having tons of fun on stage.

i'm glad i never met Tusk Lindsey.

I can agree with that. I've never met him, but if I did, it would certainly want it to be now Lindsey.

Hey, I'll keep beating a dead goat...err, horse here, but it's still PATHETIC for him to want to go back. The MUSICAL LEADER is giving in to the diva. F*ck that! He should be embarrassed for even admitting that he wants to go back.
"Here are my testes, $tevie. They're yours now. Go ahead and stomp on them. By the way, I wore my Sunday dog collar for you to drag me around by. I'll be good, I promise"
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

aleuzzi

12-07-2021, 10:55 PM

But sometimes I also look at it like this: She had her ultra-prolific period in the late 70s/early 80s; his has been much more recent. In the end, the two of them will probably come out about even in the amount of material they created. It's just that their timing was way different.

But there is a significant difference. Much of Lindsey’s creativity from 1974-1980 was wrapped up in the arrangement and production of the band’s music, in being its architect. When Stevie wasn’t singing one of her songs or providing harmonies, she could go off and write and draw in her journal. He wrote and produced three of his solo albums between 1981-1992 and, in between, he fronted the band on several lucrative projects. Stevie had other people to take care of the production and musicianship on her records. After Say You Will, Lindsey’s output increased dramatically. And he’s still producing his own music. Meanwhile, Stevie appears to have gone fallow, not really nourishing any creative projects except those that allow her to raid her dwindling backlog of demos from decades earlier—all with a big lift from David Stewart. It’s an uneven comparison.

On the other hand, Stevie can rightfully note that, as a man, Lindsey could still pursue his music career and have a family. She could not. For her it was one or the other.

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 12:26 AM

He wrote and produced three of his solo albums between 1981-1992 and, in between, he fronted the band on several lucrative projects.

It took him five years to release OOTC after quitting Fleetwood Mac and then he went eleven years between OOTC and SYW without releasing a studio album. In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours. The Dance was maybe a six month commitment.

ricohv

12-08-2021, 12:43 AM

Either she's a liar or something isn't working upstairs.
It can't be both?? :laugh:

HomerMcvie

12-08-2021, 02:07 AM

It can't be both?? :laugh:

$he's at LEAST both.:lol:

rhiannondontgo

12-08-2021, 02:30 AM

I don’t see how that how dismisses the idea that Stevie doesn’t want to work with Lindsey in the studio anymore. I thought it was pretty obvious that Stevie wasn’t really happy with Say You Will…But something clearly happened there that turned Stevie off with wanting to record with Lindsey again.

Yeah absolutely. I think since Stevie did the firing, it’s natural for most of us to instantly make her out as the villain and when in that mode we can often forget that Lindsey can be totally difficult. Not sure if any of you saw the post from their former makeup artist a few months back where she talks about finding his behavior and treatment towards staff to be so appalling during her years on the road with FM that it made her entirely disillusioned with the whole celebrity world and became part of the reason why she left the field entirely. And this wasn’t crazy coked out Rumours Lindsey, this was like 1997. If he can turn off a random young makeup artist intensely enough to make her leave her career behind, imagine how much he can grate on the nerves of SN who is an ex of his with an already hostile relationship with him.

And I think we all know Stevie’s very difficult and controlling herself, and not always the most reasonable or sane. So I don’t think there’s heroes or villains here, just two people who don’t mix at all anymore. Reminds me of Twisted when she refers to both of them as demons. I think deep down they both know that neither is innocent in whatever their issues are. But one has far more fame and power so of course she “wins” their long running little war (if running Fleetwood Mac can be considered a “win”, sounds like hell on earth to me though lol).

So no I wasn’t surprised in the slightest that they never made new music together after SYW or that the two eventually broke up professionally. I honestly think the most surprising part of their story is how long they managed to keep it going. It’s insane that we got 7 albums, 9(ish) tours, and plenty of one-off collaborations between these two people who have had such deep issues for a solid 45 years or so.

While it makes sense to me that she won’t work with Lindsey, I do wonder if she will ever do anything besides solo material ever again. Doesn’t seem like she wants to make music now unless it’s just her and her people, in her house, under her control, with nobody to have to compromise with. I kind of doubt she’ll do anything with FM now, even sans Lindsey.

aleuzzi

12-08-2021, 06:00 AM

It took him five years to release OOTC after quitting Fleetwood Mac and then he went eleven years between OOTC and SYW without releasing a studio album. In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours. The Dance was maybe a six month commitment.

He had been working on a solo album in that time (the original Gift of Screws) that was shelved to serve the Mac.

And even if it took five years to release OOTC, he was still crafting it, writing all the songs and producing them.

You are right about Stevie’s commitment to steady touring for and in-between projects.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 06:26 AM

It’s okay. “Street of Dreams” is a masterpiece.

I’m not sure it was worth the five year wait. It definitely would have benefited from Mick and John. I’m not super impressed that he did most of the instrumentation himself. It makes it feel synthetic.
That's my least favorite on the record. This is the Time is my favorite.
I hear you about the instrumentation. Fwiw, I think Under the Skin is Lindsey's best record.

blinker12

12-08-2021, 08:18 AM

2 things can co-exist:

fact: Stevie has not been creative anymore and she did everything in her power to stop another Fleetwood Mac album.
fact: Lindsey sees Fleetwood Mac as his life's work and at 70+ does not want to be referred to as "former FM member" - he wants to still be a full-fledged member. that has everything to do with the band, and the only thing that has to do with Stevie is that she wants FM to be SN's band. Mick clearly has been fighting that.

Yes, I agree and get all that. What I was saying is, if you want someone to invite you back into their fold, you generally don't belittle and insult that person publicly. Even if Mick is fighting Stevie's supremacy, as you say, she is still in while Lindsey is out.

His early press for the album was a lot more diplomatic when it came to Stevie. In the Marc Maron/WTF interview, even though he did say she was responsible for him getting fired, he also said things along the lines of "I just want Stevie to be happy." That's a lot more effective strategy for building bridges, IMO -- even while not specifically excusing her behavior.

[BTW, I'm not saying they SHOULD reunite or that I want them to. Just that if Lindsey wants that to happen, he should re-evaluate his approach.]

jbrownsjr

12-08-2021, 09:14 AM

I think he wants back in just for revenge. Yes, he's very controlling. And... THAT ticket FOR A RUMOURS 5 would be SUPER HOT.

rhiannondontgo

12-08-2021, 10:26 AM

Yes, I agree and get all that. What I was saying is, if you want someone to invite you back into their fold, you generally don't belittle and insult that person publicly. Even if Mick is fighting Stevie's supremacy, as you say, she is still in while Lindsey is out.

His early press for the album was a lot more diplomatic when it came to Stevie. In the Marc Maron/WTF interview, even though he did say she was responsible for him getting fired, he also said things along the lines of "I just want Stevie to be happy." That's a lot more effective strategy for building bridges, IMO -- even while not specifically excusing her behavior.

[BTW, I'm not saying they SHOULD reunite or that I want them to. Just that if Lindsey wants that to happen, he should re-evaluate his approach.]

I was baffled by this too. Every interview has him talking about how he’d love to reunite with the band and he wants them to have a better ending. But he’s got to know that now that SN is the HBIC, his constant public criticism of her is going to keep him from ever being welcome back in that circle.

At times I wonder if he doesn’t want to actually be back as much as he wants to look like he does. Like the point of all these interview lines might be to remind the world he didn’t want this to happen and he had planned to stick it out, and him not being there is solely on her. I think it’s possible he may want to make those points without actually having a real desire to return to the situation (which we all know would require a lot of apologizing and asskissing to SN, I doubt this is anything he wants to have to do lol) .

jbrownsjr

12-08-2021, 10:49 AM

I was baffled by this too. Every interview has him talking about how he’d love to reunite with the band and he wants them to have a better ending. But he’s got to know that now that SN is the HBIC, his constant public criticism of her is going to keep him from ever being welcome back in that circle.

At times I wonder if he doesn’t want to actually be back as much as he wants to look like he does. Like the point of all these interview lines might be to remind the world he didn’t want this to happen and he had planned to stick it out, and him not being there is solely on her. I think it’s possible he may want to make those points without actually having a real desire to return to the situation (which we all know would require a lot of apologizing and asskissing to SN, I doubt this is anything he wants to have to do lol) .

I think on some level he wants to come back, but knows it won't happen. So in the meantime (pun intended), he can bang on her in the press. And I don't disagree with what he's saying at all. She does want that STEVIE NICKS persona, along with not wanting to contribute writing.

If only we little people had the press listening to us. :lol:

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 03:56 PM

He had been working on a solo album in that time (the original Gift of Screws) that was shelved to serve the Mac.

And even if it took five years to release OOTC, he was still crafting it, writing all the songs and producing them.

From September 11, 1962 through April 21, 1967, the Beatles started “Please Please Me” and finished “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,” just for perspective of what’s possible in five years. In five years, with comparatively primitive technology, they revolutionized what was possible with music. They showed what actual creative growth looks like.

Lindsey’s talk of creative growth is a ruse. His works are largely interchangeable. His OOTC songs are largely interchangeable with his TITN songs, and those weren’t a radical departure from his Go Insane songs. In fact, “Go Insane,” “Big Love,” and “Doing What I Can” are basically the song.

The reason it took him so long to release albums is because he didn’t have the songs. Lindsey was never the most prolific writer. He was more interested in the process, where he let himself get lost for years at a time, than with writing and releasing albums.

jbrownsjr

12-08-2021, 04:56 PM

From September 11, 1962 through April 21, 1967, the Beatles started “Please Please Me” and finished “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band,” just for perspective of what’s possible in five years. In five years, with comparatively primitive technology, they revolutionized what was possible with music. They showed what actual creative growth looks like.

Lindsey’s talk of creative growth is a ruse. His works are largely interchangeable. His OOTC songs are largely interchangeable with his TITN songs, and those weren’t a radical departure from his Go Insane songs. In fact, “Go Insane,” “Big Love,” and “Doing What I Can” are basically the song.

The reason it took him so long to release albums is because he didn’t have the songs. Lindsey was never the most prolific writer. He was more interested in the process, where he let himself get lost for years at a time, than with writing and releasing albums.

I'm going to "YES AND" you. Yes, and, he did roll a lot of his solo work into FMac records.

Where you and I really agree is that he's not really a pioneer. I mean, not really. (said in my gay voice).

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing. Give a full listen, with some bourbon and perhaps a little 420. It's really a very lovely album. BuckVie is a lovely album. What makes me crack up is that he will say he's helping Christine deviate from normal pop music. I think Christine needs to deviate him from his perception of what he thinks is groundbreaking, or "against the grain".

And finally where we really disagree. It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him. She lost what little respect I had for her. Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.

Granted, I bit my lip a lot of his show. It was still good to see him again and ALIVE. But for the love of God speed up Trouble, NGBA, and do a full band Big Love for Christ's sake!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! Repetition is killing that man faster than STEVIE NICKS. !!!

aleuzzi

12-08-2021, 05:25 PM

I'm going to "YES AND" you. Yes, and, he did roll a lot of his solo work into FMac records.

Where you and I really agree is that he's not really a pioneer. I mean, not really. (said in my gay voice).

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing. Give a full listen, with some bourbon and perhaps a little 420. It's really a very lovely album. BuckVie is a lovely album. What makes me crack up is that he will say he's helping Christine deviate from normal pop music. I think Christine needs to deviate him from his perception of what he thinks is groundbreaking, or "against the grain".

And finally where we really disagree. It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him. She lost what little respect I had for her. Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.

Granted, I bit my lip a lot of his show. It was still good to see him again and ALIVE. But for the love of God speed up Trouble, NGBA, and do a full band Big Love for Christ's sake!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! Repetition is killing that man faster than STEVIE NICKS. !!!

I’m with you, entirely, on this.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 07:07 PM

It was really unethical and IMHO downright savage to have him fired and not even face him.
We don't use that word because it's ugly.

I don't know if this was why he was fired but if Mick/Stevie had said in the CBS This Morning interview or the 2018 Rolling Stone interview that came after the tv interview that Lindsey was fired because he wouldn't apologize for telling Stevie that she isn't able to write for a FM album, that she doesn't have energy on stage any more, and that she talks too much on stage, I would've said okay that's how it is. Fine.

But because they said on CBS that Lindsey didn't want to tour for another year after Stevie wouldn't tour for over a year in 2012, and then it comes out that he wasn't fired for that; I don't think the firing was just. All I think I know is that Stevie just didn't want to be in a band anymore and I don't know why, or what he did in 2017 or 2018 to her that she wanted him out.

It was cowardly of Mick, John, Chris, and Stevie not to conference call Lindsey, with Irving on the line, and let him know he's fired.

That being said, I still went to see the 2018 and 2019 shows multiple times because Stevie is my favorite of all time.

FM is my favorite band and it upsets me that they ended this way. At least when Lindsey left in 1987 they got it together and made an album!

jbrownsjr

12-08-2021, 08:59 PM

We don't use that word because it's ugly.
!

He was terminated.

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 09:52 PM

Where you and I might disagree is that at least he's out there making new music and still writing.
I respect that about him. I also respect that about the two guys who took over for him.

Yes Yes, I know you think it was Azoff and classic East/West. Couldn't disagree more.
I wouldn’t say it was THE reason he got sacked, but I think Lindsey lost a critical ally during the tour negotiations. It wouldn’t surprise me if Irving stopped trying to smooth things over with Stevie during the tour negotiations like he was inclined to in the past, especially after successfully relaunching The Eagles, letting Stevie reach her breaking point and throwing him under the bus when she did.

But because they said on CBS that Lindsey didn't want to tour for another year after Stevie wouldn't tour for over a year in 2012, and then it comes out that he wasn't fired for that; I don't think the firing was just.
I’m not convinced that they weren’t told to use that as a reason, especially since there was some truth in Lindsey asking to delay the tour. He admitted as much. Not by a year, but details were never their forte.

However, I don’t really see the hypocrisy of Stevie asking for another year to tour her album. For starters, she was already on tour, not starting a tour. More importantly, she has an actual viable solo career that she spent decades building. She did at least five solo tours before he did his first and three more before he did his second. In Lindseyspeak, her solo career is also big machine and is a major reason they continue being an arena band.

It was cowardly of Mick, John, Chris, and Stevie not to conference call Lindsey, with Irving on the line, and let him know he's fired.
They were instructed not to contact him, probably by legal. Irving knew there would be a lawsuit. There always is.

FM is my favorite band and it upsets me that they ended this way. At least when Lindsey left in 1987 they got it together and made an album!
Obviously not because of Neil or Mike. The day after the tour ended, Neil went into the studio with Crowded House (which probably means those songs were written for Fleetwood Mac).

Other than to pad ticket sales, without the possibility of new music, I don’t get why they brought on Neil and Mike instead of bringing back Billy and Rick.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 10:11 PM

However, I don’t really see the hypocrisy of Stevie asking for another year to tour her album. For starters, she was already on tour, not starting a tour. More importantly, she has an actual viable solo career that she spent decades building. She did at least five solo tours before he did his first and three more before he did his second. In Lindseyspeak, her solo career is also big machine and is a major reason they continue being an arena band.

2012 was the In Your Dreams tour, but the 2011 leg of the In Your Dreams Tour did end 7 months before the 2012 leg started so it kind of was starting a tour.

You're right that her solo career is viable. But if she's going to say that FM is a team and she's not the boss, Mick, John, and Lindsey wanted to tour in 2012 and she didn't want to tour for another year.
Mick certainly voiced that he wasn't happy with what she did in 2012 in the Playboy interview.
It's just about believing what you(Stevie) says and she must not believe that team speech she gave to CBS.

Were you surprised they settled with Lindsey given they thought they had a good defense to the charges he made? I guess since the judge didn't dismiss Lindsey's suit they (the lawyers) thought better to settle

elle

12-08-2021, 10:36 PM

Were you surprised they settled with Lindsey given they thought they had a good defense to the charges he made?

who thought that? did you read the lawsuit? it's pretty straightforward.

they were all bluster basking in their lies (see you in court!!) as long as it was not legal and they were not actually in court. then they had no leg to stand on. remember, they broke the contract, all of them (including IA) and they knew they were lucky if he doesn't completely decide to take them to the cleaners. that's why they settled.

and apparently he would have been happy to take all that dirty laundry that he's been airing recently to the court. imagine the spectacle!

HomerMcvie

12-08-2021, 10:39 PM

Other than to pad ticket sales, without the possibility of new music, I don’t get why they brought on Neil and Mike instead of bringing back Billy and Rick.

Billy would agree with you on this.:lol: As do I.

IDK about Neil, but Old I'm Not The Boss wanted Mike in the band. $he was a member of The Heartbreakers, after all.

bwboy

12-08-2021, 10:44 PM

who thought that? did you read the lawsuit? it's pretty straightforward.

they were all bluster basking in their lies (see you in court!!) as long as it was not legal and they were not actually in court. then they had no leg to stand on. remember, they broke the contract, all of them (including IA) and they knew they were lucky if he doesn't completely decide to take them to the cleaners. that's why they settled.

and apparently he would have been happy to take all that dirty laundry that he's been airing recently to the court. imagine the spectacle!

In all fairness, both parties settled- the band and Lindsey. Win-win for both of them- the band didn’t want him and were apparently happy to settle in order to end the lawsuit quickly, and he got the money he would have gotten if he had toured with them. It was one of the fastest lawsuits I’d ever seen.

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 10:47 PM

2012 was the In Your Dreams tour, but the 2011 leg of the In Your Dreams Tour did end 7 months before the 2012 leg started so it kind of was starting a tour.
But it wasn’t a new tour, it was a continuation of an existing tour, just like the Shaking The Cage (TITN) tour.

You're right that her solo career is viable. But if she's going to say that FM is a team and she's not the boss, Mick, John, and Lindsey wanted to tour in 2012 and she didn't want to tour for another year.
She first said that in Rolling Stone in 2017.

However, I think they were a lot further along in the planning in 2017 than in 2012. Plus, it was five years later, John had had a cancer scare, and Christine was back. John (the oldest at the time) would have been 66 at the start of a 2012 tour, Christine (the oldest) was 75 at the start of the 2017 tour. The situations were very different.

Were you surprised they settled with Lindsey given they thought they had a good defense to the charges he made? I guess since the judge didn't dismiss Lindsey's suit they (the lawyers) thought better to settle
It was probably cheaper to settle than continue paying expensive lawyers, especially since we don’t know the amount of the settlement.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 10:48 PM

he got the money he would have gotten if he had toured with them.
I don't think that's true. If that's true, then the band lost.

bwboy

12-08-2021, 10:51 PM

I respect that about him. I also respect that about the two guys who took over for him.

Other than to pad ticket sales, without the possibility of new music, I don’t get why they brought on Neil and Mike instead of bringing back Billy and Rick.

I think FM thought they had already been down that road with Billy and Rick, and wanted something different. I also suspect Rick would have said no even if he had been asked- I don’t know why I feel that way, Rick has always been respectful of his time with FM but I think he might subscribe to the philosophy “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” I believe FM didn’t include Rick or Billy when they were inducted in the RRHOF. And Billy had his heart surgery shortly after Neil and Mike joined, but thankfully he seems to have recovered.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 10:58 PM

She first said that in Rolling Stone in 2017.

She knows she's the boss in Fleetwood Mac. I say change it to Fleetwood Mac Nicks.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 11:02 PM

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 11:04 PM

She knows she's the boss in Fleetwood Mac. I say change it to Fleetwood Mac Nicks.

I say that since they’re not doing anymore tours anyway, I’d rather see Mick, John, Christine, Neil, and Mike make an album and hit the festival circuit. No Stevie, no Lindsey, no band getting caught in the middle or sidelined because of their drama. Just music.

However, to put the dagger in the heart (it will never happen, BTW), I’d revamp the mini-Mac. My version would have Steve Ferrone, Benmont Tench, Scott Thurston, and Charlie and Hattie Webb. “Sorry, Stevie. Shouldn’t have ghosted us.”

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 11:16 PM

I say that since they’re not doing anymore tours anyway, I’d rather see Mick, John, Christine, Neil, and Mike make an album and hit the festival circuit. No Stevie, no Lindsey, no band getting caught in the middle or sidelined because of their drama. Just music.

However, to put the dagger in the heart (it will never happen, BTW), I’d revamp the mini-Mac. My version would have Steve Ferrone, Benmont Tench, Scott Thurston, and Charlie and Hattie Webb. “Sorry, Stevie. Shouldn’t have ghosted us.” Webb Sisters over Sharon and Marilyn Martin?

Why no Ron Blair?

I'd see that festival circuit show. Even see it at The Forum!

HomerMcvie

12-08-2021, 11:16 PM

I think FM thought they had already been down that road with Billy and Rick, and wanted something different. I also suspect Rick would have said no even if he had been asked- I don’t know why I feel that way, Rick has always been respectful of his time with FM but I think he might subscribe to the philosophy “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” I believe FM didn’t include Rick or Billy when they were inducted in the RRHOF. And Billy had his heart surgery shortly after Neil and Mike joined, but thankfully he seems to have recovered.

Billy posted a huge rant on FB when he found out they weren't asking him and Rick back into the fold. I'd give anything if I'd screen shot it. Of course he deleted it fairly quickly.

I think Rick would've gone back. Someone told me that they thought Rick was an ass or something(I actually now believe it was over his politics- I don't know his politics, because they're none of my business). I've gone and seen him at a blues club in Nashville a couple times, and he seems awesome. He hangs out in the alley(Printer's Alley) when the band is on break, just like a regular guy. He's even shared pics of him and the band that I've taken, the next morning.

That said, Neil and Mike are bigger names than Rick and Billy. Maybe Old I'm Not The Boss was afraid people wouldn't fill the seats for just her and her massive ego?

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 11:18 PM

Webb Sisters over Sharon and Marilyn Martin?
Sharon and Marilyn are Stevie’s backup singers.

Why no Ron Blair?
Because John’s still alive.

UnwindedDreams

12-08-2021, 11:27 PM

Because John’s still alive.

Thank the Lord for that!

When I read mini-Mac, I was thinking mini-Mac in terms of the mini band playing behind FM. Like the one with Genesis right now.

I'd love a John tour, but like Chris said earlier this year, John's done touring.

SteveMacD

12-08-2021, 11:34 PM

I also suspect Rick would have said no even if he had been asked- I don’t know why I feel that way, Rick has always been respectful of his time with FM but I think he might subscribe to the philosophy “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.”

Rick’s been part of the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band for years, was part of the core band at Mick’s Peter Green tribute, and did that remake of “These Strange Times” last year. Rick absolutely would have done the tour. He’s not a household name and arena tour money is pretty great.

SteveMacD

12-09-2021, 12:49 AM

When I read mini-Mac, I was thinking mini-Mac in terms of the mini band playing behind FM. Like the one with Genesis right now.
That is what I meant. Instead of Taku, Neale, Ricky, Sharon, and Marilyn, they’d have Steve, Scott, Benmont, and the Webb Sisters, respectively.

I'd love a John tour, but like Chris said earlier this year, John's done touring.
Mike said that there wasn’t going to be another big tour, but that they’d still do festivals and other performances. In my scenario, they’re not touring, just playing the festival circuit. And it would be…heartbreaking…for Stevie that she chose to not be part of the studio album.

UnwindedDreams

12-09-2021, 08:09 AM

Mike said that there wasn’t going to be another big tour, but that they’d still do festivals and other performances. In my scenario, they’re not touring, just playing the festival circuit. And it would be…heartbreaking…for Stevie that she chose to not be part of the studio album.
Did Mike say that after Christine's comments this year?

Stevie would be headlining the very festivals mini-Mac would be playing:laugh:

jbrownsjr

12-09-2021, 08:20 AM

bwboy

12-09-2021, 08:48 AM

I think it was in a Peter Green tribute video that came out in Summer 2020 that Rick said he and Mick had a falling out in 2016. (seems like over the stuff you see on Rick's twitter account)
They healed when Mick asked Rick to be in the house band in the London tribute.

Wow, thanks for that info UnwindedDreams! I had no idea. I knew Rick performed at the Peter Green tribute concert, and he did an incredible job, too, but I didn’t know he and Mick had had a falling out. Glad to hear they patched things up.

BigAl84

12-09-2021, 09:39 AM

Steve, What are the 4 Stevie albums? Other Side, Street Angel, and Shangri-La. Are you counting Time Space? Thank you.

It's been said a million times, I'll take quality over quantity any day.

OSOTM...inconsistent
Street Angel...inconsistent
TISL....inconsistent but probably her most cohesive effort up to that point.
Timespace...a few new songs
BTM... a few new songs

BigAl84

12-09-2021, 09:48 AM

It took him five years to release OOTC after quitting Fleetwood Mac and then he went eleven years between OOTC and SYW without releasing a studio album. In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours. The Dance was maybe a six month commitment.

I know one thing for sure, Street Angel was worth the wait!!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/29HRejgahYenVsohB5/giphy.gif

The whole argument is so tired....she did more "stuff" so somehow thats better.

Even McCartney is prolific in making sh*t albums....and has legions of fans who can openly admit it.

UnwindedDreams

12-09-2021, 10:05 AM

Timespace...a few new songs

I think Time Space was 2 new songs. One written by JBJ/Desmond Child? And one by Brett Michaels?

jbrownsjr

12-09-2021, 01:55 PM

I think Time Space was 2 new songs. One written by JBJ/Desmond Child? And one by Brett Michaels?

Sometimes it's a Bit**.. :]:shrug:;):D:o:laugh:

SteveMacD

12-09-2021, 02:36 PM

I know one thing for sure, Street Angel was worth the wait!!!!

Yeah, but I can say the same thing about OOTC and Christine’s songs on “Time.” Each had a few great songs, each could become tedious, and none really shed any new light on the artist.

SteveMacD

12-09-2021, 03:14 PM

I think Time Space was 2 new songs. One written by JBJ/Desmond Child? And one by Brett Michaels?

Three. There was also a co-write with Campbell.

UnwindedDreams

12-09-2021, 03:35 PM

Three. There was also a co-write with Campbell.
Desert Angel. Weird song. I love Sometimes. Too bad she never did it live.

John Run

12-09-2021, 03:44 PM

Without Lindsey creating new music, touring, and now on month 6 of press, there would be zero current content to talk about regarding this band and these forums would be ghost towns. Here is to remaining active and vibrant into our 70's!

BigAl84

12-09-2021, 04:04 PM

Yeah, but I can say the same thing about OOTC and Christine’s songs on “Time.” Each had a few great songs, each could become tedious, and none really shed any new light on the artist.

So is the point you're making by saying "In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours" Is that she was simply more visible?

David

12-09-2021, 04:16 PM

Yeah, but I can say the same thing about OOTC and Christine’s songs on “Time.” Each had a few great songs, each could become tedious, and none really shed any new light on the artist.
I think that’s the first time I’ve heard anyone assert that Cradle had no more artistry, integrity, or personality (“shed new light”) than Street Angel. I do believe I need an immediate bourbon on the rocks.

bwboy

12-09-2021, 05:33 PM

So is the point you're making by saying "In that same eleven year period, Stevie released two solo albums and did three solo tours" Is that she was simply more visible?

I think the comparison is that there was a time not that long ago, but pre-internet, when Lindsey didn’t record or tour for years, while Stevie did; and now it’s reversed, with Stevie not recording (although she was touring) but now Lindsey is doing both, and more often than he used to do. I wonder if, during those many years when he released 0 music, if people would have said about him then what they’re saying about her now (can’t write new songs, etc). She’s released a ton of music in her life, and if she doesn’t record anymore, good for her. She’s clearly not interested anymore. He’s clearly gotten a second wind and is enjoying a revival of sorts, so good for him.

jbrownsjr

12-09-2021, 05:42 PM

elle

12-09-2021, 05:47 PM

I think the comparison is that there was a time not that long ago, but pre-internet, when Lindsey didn’t record or tour for years, while Stevie did; and now it’s reversed, with Stevie not recording (although she was touring) but now Lindsey is doing both, and more often than he used to do. I wonder if, during those many years when he released 0 music, if people would have said about him then what they’re saying about her now (can’t write new songs, etc). She’s released a ton of music in her life, and if she doesn’t record anymore, good for her. She’s clearly not interested anymore. He’s clearly gotten a second wind and is enjoying a revival of sorts, so good for him.

Stevie has every right to do whatever she wants regarding her music, including retiring. that's not the issue.

the issue is that she is holding Fleetwood Mac back and not allowing the band to release any new music, just because she herself is not interested. the issue is that when you are in the band, you are part of the team (sounds familiar?), not subverting the band to the will of just one member. she can just sing backup on others' songs if she's not interested to contribute her own songs. instead, she has been actively trying - and succeeding in stopping Fleetwood Mac from releasing any new music.

Fleetwood Mac has been a team band. they are not Bon Jovi or Bruce and the E Street band. they were band of equals. she wants them to be Stevie Nicks band - all the while trying to pretend that what she wants is what everyone in the band wants.

at this point it has nothing to do with Stevie vs Lindsey. it is Stevie vs Fleetwood Mac.

HomerMcvie

12-09-2021, 05:54 PM

Stevie has every right to do whatever she wants regarding her music, including retiring. that's not the issue.

the issue is that she is holding Fleetwood Mac back and not allowing the band to release any new music, just because she herself is not interested. the issue is that when you are in the band, you are part of the team (sounds familiar?), not subverting the band to the will of just one member. she can just sing backup on others' songs if she's not interested to contribute her own songs. instead, she has been actively trying - and succeeding in stopping Fleetwood Mac from releasing any new music.

Fleetwood Mac has been a team band. they are not Bon Jovi or Bruce and the E Street band. they were band of equals. she wants them to be Stevie Nicks band - all the while trying to pretend that what she wants is what everyone in the band wants.

at this point it has nothing to do with Stevie vs Lindsey. it is Stevie vs Fleetwood Mac.

DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner!

Old I'm Not The Boss clearly IS the boss. It's HER band now. That's not what a band is. She needs to quit the band, and be the boss of her own band.

But Mick is a wh*re, and he's just thrilled to be filling seats. Christine is a company shill, and John's feeling older than dirt, and doesn't GAF.

Stevie won, and ruined the band of my life.

elle

12-09-2021, 05:58 PM

I need to re-read this Elle. Where can I find it?

it's pinned on top of RSL.

jwd

12-09-2021, 06:17 PM

jwd

12-09-2021, 06:19 PM

jwd

12-09-2021, 06:21 PM

SteveMacD

12-09-2021, 06:42 PM

I think that’s the first time I’ve heard anyone assert that Cradle had no more artistry, integrity, or personality (“shed new light”) than Street Angel. I do believe I need an immediate bourbon on the rocks.
That’s not what I was asserting. I was talking about originality.

But since you went there…

It has as much artisty, integrity, and personality of a Starbucks in an Abercrombie. Let’s give it up for all that artistic integrity of “You Do Or You Don’t” and “Surrender the Rain.” So much personality! Bravo!! All hail the total originality of “Countdown” and “Doing What I Can.” So much originality, so many artistic boundaries expanded.

That’s not to say that what Christine and Stevie were doing was better, but they never proclaimed to be artistic visionaries who are on a journey of creative growth, which is ironic, because Christine’s songwriting actually grew.

Think you better hold the rocks. . :wavey:

Just like Lindsey did.

jbrownsjr

12-10-2021, 08:18 AM

Stevie has every right to do whatever she wants regarding her music, including retiring. that's not the issue.

the issue is that she is holding Fleetwood Mac back and not allowing the band to release any new music, just because she herself is not interested. the issue is that when you are in the band, you are part of the team (sounds familiar?), not subverting the band to the will of just one member. she can just sing backup on others' songs if she's not interested to contribute her own songs. instead, she has been actively trying - and succeeding in stopping Fleetwood Mac from releasing any new music.

Fleetwood Mac has been a team band. they are not Bon Jovi or Bruce and the E Street band. they were band of equals. she wants them to be Stevie Nicks band - all the while trying to pretend that what she wants is what everyone in the band wants.

at this point it has nothing to do with Stevie vs Lindsey. it is Stevie vs Fleetwood Mac.

Well stated, Elle. I'd be happy without her. Going to a sold out crowd at the Greek could have been the beginning of them re-branding and making new music as a 4 set. Goat's 24 tour was nasal and all she did was talk about herself. I'd say go watch the vids, but don't waste your time. :lol:

aleuzzi

12-10-2021, 09:31 AM

UnwindedDreams

12-10-2021, 11:46 AM

But then, Show Them the Way was new and the world is worse off for it…

I thank her for showing me The Way.

jbrownsjr

12-10-2021, 01:49 PM

I’ll take new music from any of them (Christine, Lindsey, Stevie) if we can’t have it as a band. This is why, despite his often annoying, condescending affect, Lindsey is a hero in my book.

But then, Show Them the Way was new and the world is worse off for it…

I really read the lyrics and listened to it after you gave me a nudge to go do so.

And I have to say, my jaw was wide open (not for the other reasons) Just wide open in a staggering amount of "wtf??" :distress:

aleuzzi

12-10-2021, 02:08 PM

I really read the lyrics and listened to it after you gave me a nudge to go do so.

And I have to say, my jaw was wide open (not for the other reasons) Just wide open in a staggering amount of "wtf??" :distress:

I know. The lyrics elicit a long, drawn-out cringe.

Musically, it isn't anything.

BombaySapphire3

12-10-2021, 03:11 PM

I know. The lyrics elicit a long, drawn-out cringe.

Musically, it isn't anything.

It 's dreadful all around and she thinks that it is the equal of Edge of Seventeen. She needs to just retire.

jbrownsjr

12-10-2021, 04:53 PM

It 's dreadful all around and she thinks that it is the equal of Edge of Seventeen. She needs to just retire.

Oh, if wishing made it so.

bombaysaffires

12-11-2021, 03:07 PM

It 's dreadful all around and she thinks that it is the equal of Edge of Seventeen. She needs to just retire.

just proves she's in no way a competent judge of her own material...she just puts stuff down and sees what sticks. Then, when a song ends up being a hit, she retroactively claims credit for knowing all along it would be what it turned out to be and that she even specifically wrote it knowing how successful it would be.

She's never known which of her songs is good or not. (In her honest moments she's even flat out said this, as in "I just give a bunch of stuff to FM and let them [ie LB] pick whichever ones they want." and "I've never deliberately written a single I just write songs and let others decide what will make a good single"). As so many of us have said forever, she 100% benefits from having a good editor/producer to steer her. First that was LB, the Jimmy (although they steered her in different directions) and then.....she was such a mess she either didn't pick the right people or she just didn't listen to them, convinced in her own masterful abilities. Now she's marinated in her own bullsh&t for so long, she really has come to believe it.... and her "legendary" status has given her the clout to demand others follow her or to make them too intimidated to speak truth to power.

elle

12-11-2021, 05:20 PM

jand her "legendary" status has given her the clout to demand others follow her or to make them too intimidated to speak truth to power.

they all saw what happens if they try to speak truth to power (see: Lindsey Buckingham ouster 2018).

LB speaking the truth now about why there were no FM albums in almost 20 years hurts her brand. that's why you see her cult all over social media spitting on LB after every interview he gives.

bombaysaffires

12-11-2021, 05:31 PM

they all saw what happens if they try to speak truth to power (see: Lindsey Buckingham ouster 2018).

LB speaking the truth now about why there were no FM albums in almost 20 years hurts her brand. that's why you see her cult all over social media spitting on LB after every interview he gives.

and even outside of FM..... wtf told her Show Me The Way was good?????:eek:

BombaySapphire3

12-11-2021, 05:44 PM

and even outside of FM..... wtf told her Show Me The Way was good?????:eek:

Show Me The Way is actually a pretty good pop/rock song especially the 1976 live version.:lol: Show Them The Way blow chunks. I could not even listen to it more than twice and I can't say that about any of her other "new songs".

bombaysaffires

12-11-2021, 10:02 PM

Show Me The Way is actually a pretty good pop/rock song especially the 1976 live version.:lol: Show Them The Way blow chunks. I could not even listen to it more than twice and I can't say that about any of her other "new songs".

LOL.... oops.. Sorry Peter Frampton!

jbrownsjr

12-12-2021, 10:23 AM

and even outside of FM..... wtf told her Show Me The Way was good?????:eek:

She has so many worshippers around her, including her fans. They will eat anything she spews out. Some of her fans still think she sounds good. : - O

Nicks Fan

12-13-2021, 11:24 PM

Truly. Who could say they're writing a song about Dr. MLK Jr and Rep. John Lewis and make it about herself without entertainment media critiquing it? Stevie Nicks. Also, does she not need to be shown the way? Only we need to be shown?

Inducted as a solo artist when there were other women with more contributions to music and culture who hadn't been even nominated. Stevie Nicks

Cozy up to Azoff and he'll buy you want you want and ride your coattails.

I agree re the RRHOF. Her solo career died in the 80's. Name one platinum selling studio album she's had since then or even top 40 single. You can't because she's got none since 89. Tina Turner, Pat Benetar, Cher and Cyndi Lauper are more deserving. They all have records that SN never achieved.

1. Pat has 4 Grammy's was the first woman to be featured on MTV and first woman to sell out MSG.

2. Cyndi was the first woman to have her first 5-6 singles reach the top 5 on Billboard

3. Cher is still the oldest woman to have a billboard number 1 single and still selling out arenas in her 70's.

4. Tina has had records for largest audience for a single concert, most tickets sold for a female audience and at 68-69 went on a solo tour with zero opening act and sold a ton of tickets.

SN may have inspired a lot of artists but so did the ones mentioned above. The RRHOF clearly didn't really know her solo career that well because when she took the stage to accept her award they played Rhiannon.

SN is pale shadow of her former self. Her voice isn't great anymore and yet her cult worshippers thinks she sounds great. Even the dreadful Show Them The Way is worshipped and praised by her cult members. Nothing she does is ever criticized.

If I was part of the cult I would be asking myself why Lindsey is out touring, doing lots of press and did 2 stay at home concerts while the queen does nothing. I mean WTH has she done for the fans these past 2 years besides a couple of new songs and occasional interview?

She could have done some concerts from home with just her and the piano or even a fan Q and A etc and yet she thumbs her nose at doing anything for her cult and they still worship and adore her.

Irving Azzoff is a jerk who more or less has ridden the coat tails of established artists and made millions off their music and brand. What the Eagles are currently doing is a joke. Glenn is dead and the band should be too. No new music and only 2 members who actually played on the HC album they are playing on the current tour.

Lindsey's new CD made some best of lists and I bet her cult can't stand it.

jbrownsjr

12-15-2021, 09:23 AM

I agree re the RRHOF. Her solo career died in the 80's. Name one platinum selling studio album she's had since then or even top 40 single. You can't because she's got none since 89. Tina Turner, Pat Benetar, Cher and Cyndi Lauper are more deserving. They all have records that SN never achieved.

1. Pat has 4 Grammy's was the first woman to be featured on MTV and first woman to sell out MSG.

2. Cyndi was the first woman to have her first 5-6 singles reach the top 5 on Billboard

3. Cher is still the oldest woman to have a billboard number 1 single and still selling out arenas in her 70's.

4. Tina has had records for largest audience for a single concert, most tickets sold for a female audience and at 68-69 went on a solo tour with zero opening act and sold a ton of tickets.

SN may have inspired a lot of artists but so did the ones mentioned above. The RRHOF clearly didn't really know her solo career that well because when she took the stage to accept her award they played Rhiannon.

SN is pale shadow of her former self. Her voice isn't great anymore and yet her cult worshippers thinks she sounds great. Even the dreadful Show Them The Way is worshipped and praised by her cult members. Nothing she does is ever criticized.

If I was part of the cult I would be asking myself why Lindsey is out touring, doing lots of press and did 2 stay at home concerts while the queen does nothing. I mean WTH has she done for the fans these past 2 years besides a couple of new songs and occasional interview?

She could have done some concerts from home with just her and the piano or even a fan Q and A etc and yet she thumbs her nose at doing anything for her cult and they still worship and adore her.

Irving Azzoff is a jerk who more or less has ridden the coat tails of established artists and made millions off their music and brand. What the Eagles are currently doing is a joke. Glenn is dead and the band should be too. No new music and only 2 members who actually played on the HC album they are playing on the current tour.

Lindsey's new CD made some best of lists and I bet her cult can't stand it.

This may be my post of the year. Truth. Tina Turner talent vs. Stevie Nicks... are you kidding me???? :lol:

bwboy

12-15-2021, 09:52 AM

Nicks Fan, I don’t necessarily disagree with much of what you said, and I certainly do agree that Pat Benatar and Cyndi Lauper deserve to be in the RRHOF, and hopefully will be very soon. I was frustrated it took this long for the Go-Go’s to be inducted.

But just because other people deserve the honor of being inducted doesn’t mean people who have already been don’t deserve it, too. There have been some people inducted that surprised me, but just because I was surprised doesn’t mean they didn’t deserve it. So many things play into how/why folks are inducted, from talent to longevity to nepotism to record labels to management. I guess what I’m saying is just because you may not think Stevie deserves to be in the RRHOF doesn’t make a case for allowing Cyndi or Pat in, either. Their inclusion has nothing to do with hers.

blinker12

12-15-2021, 11:03 AM

^ So very well said.

Also, if these are the main criteria for entry, as stated by Nicks Fan: “Name one platinum selling studio album she's had since [the 80s] or even top 40 single. You can't because she's got none since 89,” then none of the other female artists mentioned best Stevie. Tina had her last Top 40 single in 1993, but her last platinum album was in 1986. Similar stories with Pat and Cyndi. Also Stevie continued to go gold with her albums through TISL in 2001, well after any of the others.

That said, I love all the artists mentioned and would like to see them inducted too. If there’s a problem here, it’s lack of recognition of women in general, not favoritism toward Stevie.

UnwindedDreams

12-15-2021, 12:35 PM

bwboy and blinker12, should Stevie Nicks have been inducted into the Hall of Fame as a solo artist before Tina Turner or Carole King, Diana Ross were?

bwboy

12-15-2021, 01:19 PM

bwboy and blinker12, should Stevie Nicks have been inducted into the Hall of Fame as a solo artist before Tina Turner or Carole King, Diana Ross were?

I don’t mind Stevie was inducted first. It just as easily could have been Tina or Diana who were inducted first, but it just happened to be Stevie. The important thing is that they’re all inducted.

I want Belinda Carlisle in the RRHOF as a solo artist, but honestly, I don’t know that I can make a real convincing case for her inclusion. Mad About You and Heaven is a Place on Earth are pretty iconic, but she doesn’t write many songs or play any instruments. And a lot of people would cry foul if she were inducted. I don’t see that same type of opposition with Stevie, Dinah, Tina, Pat, or Cyndi.

UnwindedDreams

12-15-2021, 01:32 PM

I don’t mind Stevie was inducted first. It just as easily could have been Tina or Diana who were inducted first, but it just happened to be Stevie. The important thing is that they’re all inducted.

I want Belinda Carlisle in the RRHOF as a solo artist, but honestly, I don’t know that I can make a real convincing case for her inclusion. Mad About You and Heaven is a Place on Earth are pretty iconic, but she doesn’t write many songs or play any instruments. And a lot of people would cry foul if she were inducted. I don’t see that same type of opposition with Stevie, Dinah, Tina, Pat, or Cyndi.
Stevie got the honor of being the first woman inducted twice.
I believe women who had great impact on popular and rock music and culture should be first to be inducted (Aretha. Big Mama Thornton, Patti Smith, Donna Summer)

I believe Stevie should be in. But Tina really had to fight to become who she is, such as getting to own her name! And as a woman of color who revolutionized performance and arguably gave pop music a rock edge, I think Tina should've been the first woman inducted twice.

If you watch the induction video package for Stevie, Rhiannin is played multiple times so I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

jbrownsjr

12-15-2021, 03:30 PM

Stevie got the honor of being the first woman inducted twice.
I believe women who had great impact on popular and rock music and culture should be first to be inducted (Aretha. Big Mama Thornton, Patti Smith, Donna Summer)

I believe Stevie should be in. But Tina really had to fight to become who she is, such as getting to own her name! And as a woman of color who revolutionized performance and arguably gave pop music a rock edge, I think Tina should've been the first woman inducted twice.

If you watch the induction video package for Stevie, Rhiannin is played multiple times so I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

I agree on everything you've stated. After Bella and Wild, Stevie's career is pretty iffy. She became a character/entertainer which is why she is so favored.

Tina Turner's struggle and story are real. Stevie's is very entitled. It's laughable how inept the RRHOF is that Rhiannon would be playing. But, I have very little respect for the RRHOF. It's more of a popularity contest. And in many ways, life is like that. She should show them the way. :)

elle

12-15-2021, 03:32 PM

bwboy and blinker12, should Stevie Nicks have been inducted into the Hall of Fame as a solo artist before Tina Turner or Carole King, Diana Ross were?

the fact that Stevie Nicks name was never mentioned at this year's ceremony or media when Tina and Carole were both inducted for the second time tells you all you need to know. the mention of her as first twice indicted woman would be too embarrassing for RnRHoF.

when someone did mention her on social media (usually some SN-myopic person), there were always tons of incredulous responses back.

and watch Tina's or Carole's acceptance speeches. so much humbleness and acknowledging others who paved the way (which in their case was practically nobody and they both should have been inducted ages ago - and yet!) and they have every right to brag. compare these speeches to Stevie's self-aggrandizing one.

elle

12-15-2021, 03:35 PM

I want Belinda Carlisle in the RRHOF as a solo artist, but honestly, I don’t know that I can make a real convincing case for her inclusion. Mad About You and Heaven is a Place on Earth are pretty iconic, but she doesn’t write many songs or play any instruments. And a lot of people would cry foul if she were inducted. I don’t see that same type of opposition with Stevie, Dinah, Tina, Pat, or Cyndi.

same as SN. so if SN can be inducted twice so can Belinda. Heaven is a Place on Earth was way more huge around the world than any SN solo song.

more than people who cried foul for SN??

elle

12-15-2021, 03:37 PM

f there’s a problem here, it’s lack of recognition of women in general, not favoritism toward Stevie.

2 things can be a problem at the same time.

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 03:39 PM

bwboy and blinker12, should Stevie Nicks have been inducted into the Hall of Fame as a solo artist before Tina Turner or Carole King, Diana Ross were?

I see Stevie having more influence on a lot of today’s young recording and performing artists and being more culturally relevant in the modern era than Tina, Diana, or Cher. Carole King the songwriter was inducted in 1990, and one would have to be an idiot to not give her that. As a performer, though, outside of “Tapestry,” I really couldn’t name a Carole King album.

As of right now, I’m blown away that the Guess Who/BTO, the Bangles, and Grand Funk Railroad haven’t been inducted.

bwboy

12-15-2021, 03:49 PM

same as SN. so if SN can be inducted twice so can Belinda. Heaven is a Place on Earth was way more huge around the world than any SN solo song.

more than people who cried foul for SN??

Alright, that’s two votes for Belinda!

Also, I think it’s possible the fact that Stevie can apparently be polarizing may have played in her favor as to being inducted twice. That is, if people can love her in FM but hate her solo work, and vice versa if people love her solo work but dislike FM, then that might make for a compelling argument that her solo work is truly distinct from her work with FM, and therefore she deserved to be inducted twice.

bwboy

12-15-2021, 04:01 PM

Stevie got the honor of being the first woman inducted twice.
I believe women who had great impact on popular and rock music and culture should be first to be inducted (Aretha. Big Mama Thornton, Patti Smith, Donna Summer)

I believe Stevie should be in. But Tina really had to fight to become who she is, such as getting to own her name! And as a woman of color who revolutionized performance and arguably gave pop music a rock edge, I think Tina should've been the first woman inducted twice.

If you watch the induction video package for Stevie, Rhiannin is played multiple times so I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

Wow, you raise excellent points! I did kind of wonder if Stevie’s induction could have been related to white privlige, but I hope not. I’ve always thought/hoped music was one area where white privlige wasn’t as predominant as it in so many places, but who knows. Definitely a male dominated industry. Diana Ross will surely be inducted as a solo artist at some point.

Thanks for your response! I’d love to hear what blinker thinks, as well as other folks here, but I wonder if it should be a new thread?

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 04:12 PM

same as SN.
:laugh:

Stevie had four platinum albums and ten top 40 singles, as well as having a few top 10 duets on other artists albums and having other artists have top ten hits with her songs.

Belinda had one platinum album and six top 40 singles.

elle

12-15-2021, 04:15 PM

I'm not sure Stevie was inducted for her solo music but maybe it was for being Stevie Nicks who is a solo singer and a member of Fleetwood Mac. But I believe it's her privilege which got her in before Tina.

Btw, Diana actually wasn't inducted as a solo artist which is a crime. And I don't think Belinda should be in. I think Gloria Estefan, Chaka Khan, and Mary J Blige should be in though!

you nailed it - that's a very good way to describe it.

she and her team including Liz R and IA have been great in marketing her persona [to the right people and places] and making it look like her music contributions are way beyond their real scope.

though she is by far the most successful in self-marketing from all FM members, i do have to laugh at some SN fans on social media and particularly in FM groups who think her popularity is way beyond what it really is. like when you see multiple posts saying how Harry Styles or Dave Stewart or Taylor Swift are using her name to get into the news. uhm, yeah. do you see Elton John talking much about SN collab when he talks about his new album? barely a mention. he's talking about Dua Lipa and Lil Nas X, among others. her name doesn't attract nearly as much attention.

elle

12-15-2021, 04:21 PM

Stevie had four platinum albums and ten top 40 singles, as well as having a few top 10 duets on other artists albums and having other artists have top ten hits with her songs.

Belinda had one platinum album and six top 40 singles.

SN had ten top 40 solo singles? i didn't know she even had that many FM top 40 singles.

Belinda Carlisle matters. She's got the beat.

then again Stevie has some gold dust and a silver spoon.

jbrownsjr

12-15-2021, 04:32 PM

you nailed it - that's a very good way to describe it.

she and her team including Liz R and IA have been great in marketing her persona [to the right people and places] and making it look like her music contributions are way beyond their real scope.

though she is by far the most successful in self-marketing from all FM members, i do have to laugh at some SN fans on social media and particularly in FM groups who think her popularity is way beyond what it really is. like when you see multiple posts saying how Harry Styles or Dave Stewart or Taylor Swift are using her name to get into the news. uhm, yeah. do you see Elton John talking much about SN collab when he talks about his new album? barely a mention. he's talking about Dua Lipa and Lil Nas X, among others. her name doesn't attract nearly as much attention.

Rosanne of Rock and Roll. She's popular because of her persona. Always has been. And I agree her worshippers on social media are like watching a political show. I've had to quit so many twitter and fb/ig groups because of how seriously "loon" they turn out. To Liz and IA!! here here

elle

12-15-2021, 04:40 PM

Rosanne of Rock and Roll. She's popular because of her persona. Always has been. And I agree her worshippers on social media are like watching a political show. I've had to quit so many twitter and fb/ig groups because of how seriously "loon" they turn out. To Liz and IA!! here here

i clicked on the video of Darling from SNL. nothing to do with SN at all. yet bunch of her worshippers show up in comments bashing and hating on LB.

why are they looking at the media of the person they hate, which has nothing to do with their favorite? bizarre. doesn't mean that SN currency will go down if his goes up. yet there they are.

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 05:57 PM

i clicked on the video of Darling from SNL. nothing to do with SN at all. yet bunch of her worshippers show up in comments bashing and hating on LB.

Like every thread on this forum doesn’t devolve into Stevie bashing?

UnwindedDreams

12-15-2021, 08:24 PM

I see Stevie having more influence on a lot of today’s young recording and performing artists and being more culturally relevant in the modern era than Tina, Diana, or Cher.
Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

aleuzzi

12-15-2021, 09:28 PM

Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

So true. But the millennials are bewitched by Stevie because she, like so many of them, is wholly absorbed in the self. She, like them, possesses a point of view that does not allow space for dialogue or compromise. In the current world of hyperbole and super-emoting, Stevie is the ideal role model. Her pursuits of self-interest, attention, and viral fame match the ambitions of countless youths. She is their mirror. That she doesn’t accept criticism, that she projects onto past lovers either all of her anger or adoration, that she seems incapable of humility—all of this rings true with a social media-saturated generation.

Cher and Tina are icons of a previous era. We still celebrate them, but Stevie’s sense of herself as a “brand” is very now.

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 09:31 PM

Hit documentary out about Tina. Hugely successful musicals appearing nightly in the West End and on Broadway on Tina's career.

Did you watch the induction video package for Tina and even Carole King? Look at the range of artists who provide testimonials.

What is Stevie's influence on today's young recording artists? Is it a fashion influence? Because I can't find a musical influence.

What is Stevie's cultural relevance right now? Playing a witch in AHS or cranberry/skateboarding?

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis, and Florence Welch come to mind off top my head. Miley Cyrus, too, although she had a lot of different influences (including Dolly).

Tina Turner? She was a very high energy performer who was less interested in R&B than being a contemporary of the Stones, Bowie, and The Who (“Better Be Good To Me” almost sounds like an outtake from Some Girls). I’m sorry, but I don’t see anyone modern era doing anything remotely similar to Tina. There’s no “oh, she’s trying to be Tina” like there is with Stevie.

My fiancée won tickets to CHVCHES a couple of weeks ago and we caught a few songs. Totally not our jam, but even my fiancée, who isn’t remotely a Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks fan, said that their singer was totally giving off a Stevie Nicks vibe.

UnwindedDreams

12-15-2021, 09:44 PM

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis, and Florence Welch come to mind off top my head. Miley Cyrus, too, although she had a lot of different influences (including Dolly).

Tina Turner? She was a very high energy performer who was less interested in R&B than being a contemporary of the Stones, Bowie, and The Who (“Better Be Good To Me” almost sounds like an outtake from Some Girls). I’m sorry, but I don’t see anyone modern era doing anything remotely similar to Tina. There’s no “oh, she’s trying to be Tina” like there is with Stevie.

My fiancée won tickets to CHVCHES a couple of weeks ago and we caught a few songs. Totally not our jam, but even my fiancée, who isn’t remotely a Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks fan, said that their singer was totally giving off a Stevie Nicks vibe.
I've only heard of Haim and Florence Welch. I guess you can add Harry Styles and Vanessa Carlton to the list you detailed. So these artists are trying to dress and entertain like Stevie i.e. twirling, dancing in a trance, flowing clothes? Is that what the influence is?
I think Miley was heavily influenced by Madonna, more than Stevie influenced her.

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.

elle

12-15-2021, 10:28 PM

I've only heard of Haim and Florence Welch. I guess you can add Harry Styles and Vanessa Carlton to the list you detailed. So these artists are trying to dress and entertain like Stevie i.e. twirling, dancing in a trance, flowing clothes? Is that what the influence is?
I think Miley was heavily influenced by Madonna, more than Stevie influenced her.

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.

yeah, argument that SN influence in music and culture all together is larger than Tina Turner's or Cher's or Diana Ross' does not even deserve any air, the people arguing that must be doing it just for the sake of arguing tbh. :wavey:

you can also add Mick Jagger to all those performers influenced by Tina, as he's often said himself. Michael Jackson tried to be Diana Ross. BTS seeing Diana and going "she queen!"

HER is amazing! she was also a part of the Tina tribute at her induction (duet with Keith Urban standing in for Bryan Adams who tested COVID+ at the time of induction). as was Christina.

yes, many younger generation musicians cite Fleetwood Mac's influence and SN usually jumps on co-opting them. many of these bands seem to be influenced by e.g., Tango era Fleetwood Mac, and maybe Christine's music especially, or Lindsey's sound. many have for example said that Haim's sound especially is influenced by Christine's music. but as we've been discussing ad nauseum, Stevie Nicks is the figure personifying Fleetwood Mac, so the influence of Christine or Lindsey is ascribed to her instead.

plus Stevie is great on jumping and co-opting any new artist who cites Fleetwood Mac as huge influence. after Harry Styles has been seen at FM concerts all over the world one year, next thing you saw Stevie (and Mick at first) jumped on that and became his best friend. i had to laugh when she begged Lorde to come see her solo show in Australia / NZ (she did not show up), because Lorde is such huge FM fan and never misses their show there.

what i did see however is a number of younger still struggling artists co-opting witchy chiffony clothing look. and number of girls and women all over the internet buying into her portraying herself as this huge feminist and trailblazer for women.

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 10:32 PM

Why you're not seeing Tina's influence in today's artists is that you may not be exposing yourself to artists of color.

If you follow artists of color such as Lizzo, Janelle Monáe, HER, Christina Aguilera, Beyoncé, you'll see they're trying to be Tina.
Well, you just explained why those artists aren’t even close to being Tina Turner. I saw Tina Turner twice. The crowds were mostly middle aged white folks as well as black folks. Tina played rock to rock crowds.

Those artists have voices and choreography, but that’s where any remote similarity ends. They don’t have the soul or the rock that Tina had (I’m only using past tense since Tina no longer performs).

Where do you hear Some Girls sound in Better Be Good to Me? I don't hear it.
Maybe something from Undercover but I don't think Better Be Good to Me sounds liek the Stones at all.
It reminds me a lot of their cover of Imagination.

elle

12-15-2021, 10:39 PM

Haim, CHVCHES, Jenny Lewis

i'm guessing you meant CHVRCHES.

i hear chvrches music a lot on the radio stations i listen to, and it never occurred to me that their music would be influenced by SN. :shrug:

this is what wikipedia says of their music style and influence:

Musical style
Known for their clean sound, Chvrches' music style is usually tagged as electronic or synthpop.[34] Neon Gold described their sound as "a godless hurricane of kinetic pop energy". Kitty Empire of The Observer wrote they "make accessible electro-pop that's only just short of truly brilliant".[65] Wired noted following Every Open Eye's release that the album "cements the group as today's heir apparent to Depeche Mode, New Order, and other titans of British electronic music."[34]

The band stated that their heroes were David Bowie, Depeche Mode, Iggy Pop, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Tangerine Dream and Nick Cave.[66] They have also been influenced by acts such as Madonna, Eurythmics, Throbbing Gristle, Prince,[7] Tubeway Army, Robyn, Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush, Cocteau Twins, Death Cab for Cutie, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Deftones, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston, Elliott Smith and the Prodigy.[67][68][69][70][71] The band writes, records, mixes, and masters its songs in a basement studio in Glasgow.

SteveMacD

12-15-2021, 10:59 PM

i'm guessing you meant CHVRCHES.

i hear chvrches music a lot on the radio stations i listen to, and it never occurred to me that their music would be influenced by SN. :shrug:

this is what wikipedia says of their music style and influence:

Musical style
Known for their clean sound, Chvrches' music style is usually tagged as electronic or synthpop.[34] Neon Gold described their sound as "a godless hurricane of kinetic pop energy". Kitty Empire of The Observer wrote they "make accessible electro-pop that's only just short of truly brilliant".[65] Wired noted following Every Open Eye's release that the album "cements the group as today's heir apparent to Depeche Mode, New Order, and other titans of British electronic music."[34]

The band stated that their heroes were David Bowie, Depeche Mode, Iggy Pop, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Tangerine Dream and Nick Cave.[66] They have also been influenced by acts such as Madonna, Eurythmics, Throbbing Gristle, Prince,[7] Tubeway Army, Robyn, Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush, Cocteau Twins, Death Cab for Cutie, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Deftones, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney Houston, Elliott Smith and the Prodigy.[67][68][69][70][71] The band writes, records, mixes, and masters its songs in a basement studio in Glasgow.
As I said, totally not my jam, but seeing a woman singing with a lot of vibrato and constantly twirling around in a gold frilly dress reminded me of only one performer.

ETA Here’s a video from the show I saw. (https://youtu.be/5Px64D3yF48)

HomerMcvie

12-15-2021, 11:07 PM

So true. But the millennials are bewitched by Stevie because she, like so many of them, is wholly absorbed in the self. She, like them, possesses a point of view that does not allow space for dialogue or compromise. In the current world of hyperbole and super-emoting, Stevie is the ideal role model. Her pursuits of self-interest, attention, and viral fame match the ambitions of countless youths. She is their mirror. That she doesn’t accept criticism, that she projects onto past lovers either all of her anger or adoration, that she seems incapable of humility—all of this rings true with a social media-saturated generation.

Cher and Tina are icons of a previous era. We still celebrate them, but Stevie’s sense of herself as a “brand” is very now.
That is the most spot on assessment of not only $tevie, but of the younger generation, that I've ever read. Well said!

UnwindedDreams

12-16-2021, 06:32 AM

Well, you just explained why those artists aren’t even close to being Tina Turner.
Sorry, what do you mean with this sentence? Is Florence close to being Stevie?

The crowds were mostly middle aged white folks as well as black folks.
Are you saying more white people like Tina than black people? The attendance you mentioned could be reflective of the citizenry of the cities you saw the shows in, but also the price of the ticket.

Tina played rock to rock crowds.
Tina played pop songs too.

Those artists have voices and choreography, but that’s where any remote similarity ends. They don’t have the soul or the rock that Tina had (I’m only using past tense since Tina no longer performs).
Bey def has soul.
Cher did say sharing a stage with Tina is suicide.
James Brown and Tina Turner were the greatest performers. Btw, Tina is regarded as The Queen of Rock. Would you agree or do you think Janis is?

SteveMacD

12-16-2021, 05:22 PM

Sorry, what do you mean with this sentence?
It was in response to “exposing yourself to artists of color.” Tina transcended race. Like, my stepdad, who was a white Korean War veteran born in 1938 was a Tina Turner fan. If anything, she geared more towards white pop/rock music. Look at what she notably covered: “Proud Mary,” “Simply Irresistible,” and “Missing You” immediately stick out. Look at who she was hanging out with: The Who, the Stones, McCartney.

People didn’t have to expose themselves to artists of color to know about Tina Turner.

Btw, Tina is regarded as The Queen of Rock. Would you agree or do you think Janis is?
I don’t get into who’s the king/queen of a particular genre, though I’d definitely give the edge to Tina over Janis.

UnwindedDreams

12-16-2021, 06:57 PM

I don’t get into who’s the king/queen of a particular genre, though I’d definitely give the edge to Tina over Janis.
Elvis and Tina.

I'd say Stevie as Queen of Rock but Stevie isn't global like Tina and Tina started solo earlier than Stevie did.

1975-2017 Fleetwood Mac was a band where each member's talent got to share the stage spotlight so it wasn't Stevie's band in the way that Aerosmith's is Steven Tyler's, Police is Sting's, or Bon Jovi's is JBJ. (My fav members of these bands are Joe Perry, Andy Summers, and David Bryan)

2018 and on FM is Stevie's band.

So I can't say Stevie is THE Stevie Queen of Rock started until 1981 because until 1981 Chris, Mick, and John were all kings and a queen.

Tina could announce a tour of European, Asian, Australian stadiums and open fields tomorrow and sell loads of tickets. In the US, I'd say arenas.

Stevie could do a US arena tour. I'm not sure if she could do full capacity seating chart without a very special guest a.k.a. opening act because when she did shows on the 24 K Tour without The Pretenders they were in smaller cities like St Charles, Highland Park, IL and Minne State Fair. I definitely think she could do MSG and The Forum without any support.
But Stevie most likely couldn't do a massive world tour like Tina could.

Also, there aren't documentaries or West End/Broadway shows about Stevie's career. Stevie's name wasn't mentioned at the 2021 Rock Hall induction by any of the female inductees. Aretha's was. Wonder why Stevie didn't bring up Aretha at her induction.

SteveMacD

12-16-2021, 07:31 PM

Tina could announce a tour of European, Asian, Australian stadiums and open fields tomorrow and sell loads of tickets. In the US, I'd say arenas.
Not that I disagree with your point, but she hasn’t toured since 2009, so that would make complete sense, anyway.

Stevie could do a US arena tour. I'm not sure if she could do full capacity seating chart without a very special guest a.k.a. opening act
The first time I saw Tina, Lindsey was her opening act. The second time, on her first farewell tour, Joe Cocker was her opener.

Also, there aren't documentaries or West End/Broadway shows about Stevie's career.
To be fair, Stevie’s career is much more complex. Fleetwood Mac in general is too complex. Throw in Tom Petty and The Eagles, and there are too many key personalities, all really larger than life. All Tina really had was Ike.

Wonder why Stevie didn't bring up Aretha at her induction.
Probably because Aretha’s music isn’t relevant to her as an artist, if at all.

UnwindedDreams

12-16-2021, 08:08 PM

Not that I disagree with your point, but she hasn’t toured since 2009, so that would make complete sense, anyway. I'm not sure about that. Demand could be lost during those times. People may consider her age. 82. It's just known Tina is a God on stage.

The first time I saw Tina, Lindsey was her opening act. You of all, Mr. Steve Hopkins are going to tell me Lindsey put butts in the seats for Tina?:laugh: I'm just saying there's no precedent for Stevie doing a recent arena or stadium tour without a very special guest whose name was actually on the ticket. Pretenders were on the ticket for 2016-2017 Tour.
I doubt Lindsey or Chris Isaak brought anyone to buy tickets to see Tina in 93.

All Tina really had was Ike. Really? ALL she has was Ike? Domestic violence

Probably because Aretha’s music isn’t relevant to her as an artist, if at all.
Aretha opened the door for her to get inducted as a solo artist.

SteveMacD

12-16-2021, 09:54 PM

You of all, Mr. Steve Hopkins are going to tell me Lindsey put butts in the seats for Tina?:laugh: I'm just saying there's no precedent for Stevie doing a recent arena or stadium tour without a very special guest whose name was actually on the ticket. Pretenders were on the ticket for 2016-2017 Tour.
I doubt Lindsey or Chris Isaak brought anyone to buy tickets to see Tina in 93.
What about Joe Cocker in 2001?

Really? ALL she has was Ike? Domestic violence
At the hands of Ike.

It’s actually a pretty simple story compared to Stevie.

Ike was an R&B singer and guitarist, she joined his band, they got married, he got into drugs and became a monster, the relationship became abusive, she managed to get away, had a few lean years, got with the right producer, and became a megastar.

With Stevie, every character, from Fleetwood Mac, which had its own massive history as well as another couple with a doomed relationship, to Tom Petty and The Eagles, are larger than life characters with significant back stories. You’d have to explain Fleetwood Mac’s history, the Fritz/Buckingham Nicks backstory, and even explain her collaborators in her solo career. Even people like Sara Fleetwood play a vital role in the plot development. It’s not a story that lends itself to a traditional musical.

Aretha opened the door for her to get inducted as a solo artist.
So did Maybelle Carter if we’re getting technical.

UnwindedDreams

12-16-2021, 11:04 PM

What about Joe Cocker in 2001?

So did Maybelle Carter if we’re getting technical.
Perhaps Joe did. But I doubt Tina would've had trouble selling without him on the bill. I'd bet Joe felt privileged to open for the greatest female live performer.

Pretenders played for 75 minutes and were on the ticket for the 24 Karat Gold shows. Stevie played for 75 minutes when she opened for Rod in 2011 and 2012. So 24 Karat Gold Tour was close to a double bill.

Aretha was first woman to be inducted into the Rock Hall. Stevie isn't about kinship. She's happy to say she opens doors but won't acknowledge the struggles women of color had to endure in music business such as violence, racism, sexual abuse. As Billy sings, she's living in her white bread world...maybe an ivory tower

SteveMacD

12-16-2021, 11:52 PM

Aretha was first woman to be inducted into the Rock Hall. Stevie isn't about kinship. She's happy to say she opens doors but won't acknowledge the struggles women of color had to endure in music business such as violence, racism, sexual abuse. As Billy sings, she's living in her white bread world...maybe an ivory tower
Yeah, you’ve lost me on that. Stevie isn’t going to acknowledge someone who wasn’t an influence on her. Other than being a woman, I don’t see any connection between the two. Stevie’s initial influences were country and folk and women have been major players in those genres since the creation of recorded music (hence my Maybelle Carter reference).

UnwindedDreams

12-17-2021, 08:02 AM

Yeah, you’ve lost me on that. Stevie isn’t going to acknowledge someone who wasn’t an influence on her. Other than being a woman, I don’t see any connection between the two. Stevie’s initial influences were country and folk and women have been major players in those genres since the creation of recorded music (hence my Maybelle Carter reference).
I think the only artists Stevie mentioned at her induction were CSN and TPATHB.

Your thinking that she doesn't have to mention Aretha being the first inductee may just be old school, which is your right. Carole mentioned Aretha because Aretha was the first woman inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I just think Stevie is blind to the problem of white privilege and doesn't appreciate that women of color in the music business had it much harder than she did. As a Stevie fan, I'm not going to make excuses for her.

As an aside, I do think Stevie mentioned in 2014 interviews that she wanted to be an R&B singer.

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 12:46 PM

I think the only artists Stevie mentioned at her induction were CSN and TPATHB.
CSN were influences and TPATH were a massive part of her solo career.

Carole mentioned Aretha because Aretha was the first woman inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Carole wrote “Natural Woman” specifically for Aretha. Their careers are directly linked.

UnwindedDreams

12-17-2021, 02:54 PM

Carole wrote “Natural Woman” specifically for Aretha. Their careers are directly linked.
That is not why she brought up Aretha's name. She said we female artists stand on the shoulders of the first woman inducted, Aretha Franklin.

Stevie has her own challenge with persons of color like Eric Clapton does. They both have men of color in their bands but they do nothing to support artists of color or acknowledge they're building their music from sounds created by black musicians. As an example, when Mary J Blige's last album was released Madonna made a post to her fans to go buy MJB's record. Stevie only did that for white artists Vanessa and Harry. At least Mick acknowledged Dreams evolved from I'll Be Around.

Stevie also let Lenny Castro go from her band in 2012. And when Lori Nicks left her solo band, she hired Marilyn Martin over Stevvi Alexander, who is black and was touring with her in FM for 2 years right before. Marilyn got the FM gig in 2018 too over Srevvi.

If you believe Stephen Davis' bio of Stevie, which I don't, she said she didn't want black drivers. Why would he bring that up though?

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 03:16 PM

That is not why she brought up Aretha's name. She said we female artists stand on the shoulders of the first woman inducted, Aretha Franklin.
Again, she had a direct hand in Aretha’s career, penning one of her biggest hits specifically for her.

Stevie … Eric Clapton … do nothing to support artists of color or acknowledge they're building their music from sounds created by black musicians.
Stevie released an album by Natalie Cole. And, how long has she been shoving the Prince story down everyone’s throat? Bootylicious?

Clapton has always acknowledged the influence of black musicians, especially Robert Johnson and Freddie King. He made a duet album with B.B. King and had a huge hit with Babyface. He’s had up and coming black artists open for him. He’s lent his talents and name to many black artists over the years.

UnwindedDreams

12-17-2021, 03:20 PM

Again, she had a direct hand in Aretha’s career, penning one of her biggest hits specifically for her.

Stevie released an album by Natalie Cole. And, how long has she been shoving the Prince story down everyone’s throat? Bootylicious?

Clapton has always acknowledged the influence of black musicians, especially Robert Johnson and Freddie King. He made a duet album with B.B. King and had a huge hit with Babyface. He’s had up and coming black artists open for him. He’s lent his talents and name to many black artists over the years.
What is the Natalie Cole album?
What about Bootylicious? She appears without Destiny's Child in the video.
She made money from that yet she wouldn't let Nathan from TikTok sell his clip of Dreams. She's a white Queen.

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 03:32 PM

What is the Natalie Cole album?

Dangerous (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_(Natalie_Cole_album))

What about Bootylicious? She appears without Destiny's Child in the video.
It still acted as an official endorsement by Stevie.

She made money from that yet she wouldn't let Nathan from TikTok sell his clip of Dreams.
So? It’s her song. That was a fun moment during a pandemic. She didn’t owe him anything, though.

UnwindedDreams

12-17-2021, 03:47 PM

[B]Dangerous (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_(Natalie_Cole_album))[/B
Is Stevie singing on this album?]

It still acted as an official endorsement by Stevie.
Or by Howard Kaufman.

I think Stevie got behind Lindsay Lohan's cover of Edge

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 03:52 PM

Is Stevie singing on this album?

No, but it was released on Modern.

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 04:03 PM

Also, she sang on a B.B. King song (https://youtu.be/FgaKdmX2mZ4). Mick’s on drums.

Incidentally, it was written by Jerry Lynn Williams, who was Mick’s first choice for the Time lineup, but he didn’t want to be a backup artist for Bekka Bramlett (apparently not understanding that Fleetwood Mac has always had multiple vocalists).

bwboy

12-17-2021, 05:05 PM

Stevie has her own challenge with persons of color like Eric Clapton does. They both have men of color in their bands but they do nothing to support artists of color or acknowledge they're building their music from sounds created by black musicians. As an example, when Mary J Blige's last album was released Madonna made a post to her fans to go buy MJB's record. Stevie only did that for white artists Vanessa and Harry. At least Mick acknowledged Dreams evolved from I'll Be Around.

Stevie also let Lenny Castro go from her band in 2012. And when Lori Nicks left her solo band, she hired Marilyn Martin over Stevvi Alexander, who is black and was touring with her in FM for 2 years right before. Marilyn got the FM gig in 2018 too over Srevvi.

If you believe Stephen Davis' bio of Stevie, which I don't, she said she didn't want black drivers. Why would he bring that up though?

I think this is a slippery slope of a topic… the same could be said of so many different singers. I mean, Pat Benatar, Belinda Carlisle, the Bangles, the Go-Go’s, Elton John, Foreigner, Def Leppard, Heart, etc. I have no idea how many of them toured with, recorded with, wrote music with, or just in general worked with people of color, but I’m sure an argument could be made for each and every one of them pro and con when it comes to this topic. Including Lindsey and Christine. Stevie has had people of color in her touring band, and I think FM has as well. I don't know anything about Stevvi Alexander but I know Stevie’s had minority backup singers as well. Her main two have always been Sharon and Lori, but I’m sure she jumped at the chance to have Marilyn Martin singing backup, I mean she’s incredible! She wasn’t about to let Sharon go, she’s been with Stevie since 1981, so letting Stevvi go doesn’t have to mean Stevie is racist- otherwise, she wouldn’t have used her in the first place.

I totally get your point that Stevie is clueless about her white privlige, and I would agree with you on that, but I think that’s the most she’s guilty of.

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 08:03 PM

And, she obviously had a crush on Jimi. She even listed “Little Wing” as her all time favorite song in that Japanese band interview in 1990.

BombaySapphire3

12-17-2021, 09:06 PM

And, she obviously had a crush on Jimi. She even listed “Little Wing” as her all time favorite song in that Japanese band interview in 1990.

I can't stand what she has become now but I do not see her as racist . I'm sure she would have shagged Hendrix in an instant if given the chance.

HomerMcvie

12-17-2021, 11:22 PM

I can't stand what she has become now but I do not see her as racist . I'm sure she would have shagged Hendrix in an instant if given the chance.

So we agree, and agree that she probably saw the plaster cast of....Jimi's junk. :lol:

Google that sh*t, it's quite famous(ly large).

SteveMacD

12-17-2021, 11:25 PM

So we agree, and agree that she probably saw the plaster cast of....Jimi's junk. :lol:

Google that sh*t, it's quite famous(ly large).

Suddenly in the mood for Bill Hicks.

ricohv

12-18-2021, 01:17 AM

I can't stand what she has become now but I do not see her as racist . I'm sure she would have shagged Hendrix in an instant if given the chance.

My thoughts EXACTLY!

HomerMcvie

12-18-2021, 01:38 AM

I can't stand what she has become now but I do not see her as racist . I'm sure she would have shagged Hendrix in an instant if given the chance.

Who DIDN'T she shag? That's a shorter list.

UnwindedDreams

12-19-2021, 09:39 AM

I think this is a slippery slope of a topic… the same could be said of so many different singers. I mean, Pat Benatar, Belinda Carlisle, the Bangles, the Go-Go’s, Elton John, Foreigner, Def Leppard, Heart, etc. I have no idea how many of them toured with, recorded with, wrote music with, or just in general worked with people of color, but I’m sure an argument could be made for each and every one of them pro and con when it comes to this topic. Including Lindsey and Christine. Stevie has had people of color in her touring band, and I think FM has as well. I don't know anything about Stevvi Alexander but I know Stevie’s had minority backup singers as well. Her main two have always been Sharon and Lori, but I’m sure she jumped at the chance to have Marilyn Martin singing backup, I mean she’s incredible! She wasn’t about to let Sharon go, she’s been with Stevie since 1981, so letting Stevvi go doesn’t have to mean Stevie is racist- otherwise, she wouldn’t have used her in the first place.

How about letting Lenny Castro go?
If you read my post that you responded to, I wrote that Clapton and Stevie both have men of color in their touring bands.
One can play on stage and hire a person of color and be a racist. Look at Milo Yiannopoulous... he married a person of color and Milo's s*** of the Earth.

Clapton went on a rant on stage spewing racist words. You can find the reports online.

But the point of "otherwise, she wouldn’t have used her in the first place" can't be guaranteed.

Stevie released Show Them the Way and used the names of monumental, frankly saintly, black men to sell her song. She disrespected Dr. Martin Luther King (just another night in the presence of Martin Luther King; threw his name out as a jingly pop lyric in the song: Just another night!... Martin Luther King; a song would set them free?!!! - is it tone deaf or cluelessness?) and "my old friend John" Lewis...who the f does she think she is???

She is my favorite artist of all time. But she's enjoyed privilege and shelter her entire career.

jbrownsjr

12-19-2021, 04:18 PM

Stevie released Show Them the Way and used the names of monumental, frankly saintly, black men to sell her song. She disrespected Dr. Martin Luther King (just another night in the presence of Martin Luther King; threw his name out as a jingly pop lyric in the song: Just another night!... Martin Luther King; a song would set them free?!!! - is it tone deaf or cluelessness?) and "my old friend John" Lewis...who the f does she think she is???

She is my favorite artist of all time. But she's enjoyed privilege and shelter her entire career.

Honestly, this is just utterly embarrassing. She's either extremely insensitive or the biggest buffoon alive. Either way, someone didn't watch the news for the last 10 years or the whole team just has no filters.

No offense, but is Stevie really your favorite artist of all time? Like Really? I want to know who is 2nd and 3rd to this braintrust. :lol::woohoo::p

UnwindedDreams

12-19-2021, 04:40 PM

Honestly, this is just utterly embarrassing. She's either extremely insensitive or the biggest buffoon alive. Either way, someone didn't watch the news for the last 10 years or the whole team just has no filters.

No offense, but is Stevie really your favorite artist of all time? Like Really? I want to know who is 2nd and 3rd to this braintrust. :lol::woohoo::p

She is. 1975-2014 Mac is my 2nd fav. Third is Donna Summer.

jbrownsjr

12-19-2021, 06:04 PM

She is. 1975-2014 Mac is my 2nd fav. Third is Donna Summer.

I can only imagine how disappointing she's been to you since 2014. :(

vivfox

12-19-2021, 08:09 PM

No offense, but is Stevie really your favorite artist of all time? Like Really? I want to know who is 2nd and 3rd to this braintrust. :lol::woohoo::p

Why would you find that so hard to believe when we've all been members of a FM board for all this time?

Stevie Nicks is MY favorite artist of all time. No I'm not happy at all that she got Lindsey fired from Fleetwood Mac and no I don't love every song she has ever released but yes, in so many ways she has enhanced my life for the better. I'm turning 60 in two months and since the age of 15 she has rocked my world. My 2nd fave of all time is Andy Williams and The Beatles come in 3rd.

HomerMcvie

12-19-2021, 09:11 PM

vivfox

12-19-2021, 09:40 PM

Well, I think there are basically two types of fans.
Fleetwood Mac fans.
Stevie Nicks fans.

Many Stevie fans proclaim to be both, but the band doesn't exist to them without her. Those people aren't really Fleetwood Mac fans, IMO.

Loved Bekka's live version of GDW on the 1995 tour when I saw them live but I threw the Time album in the trash. I rarely listen to the SN fan coveted TISL album. Not happy with the majority of those songs. The demos of TISL were a billion times more enjoyable than the final release, IMHO.

HomerMcvie

12-19-2021, 10:36 PM

Loved Bekka's live version of GDW on the 1995 tour when I saw them live but I threw the Time album in the trash. I rarely listen to the SN fan coveted TISL album. Not happy with the majority of those songs. The demos of TISL were a billion times more enjoyable than the final release, IMHO.

Bekka is the best singer FM ever had. She is a powerhouse! It's a shame that lineup wasn't really given a chance to take off. I remember watching the concert, and people all around me were bitching incessantly about Stevie not being in the band. They did Dreaming The Dream, and Bekka won me over for life.

Old I'm Not The Boss really is a seat filler. And I'm not talking about after she eats a bag of White Castles. Although I'm sure mama can hold her own in that department...

jbrownsjr

12-20-2021, 08:42 AM

Why would you find that so hard to believe when we've all been members of a FM board for all this time?

Stevie Nicks is MY favorite artist of all time. No I'm not happy at all that she got Lindsey fired from Fleetwood Mac and no I don't love every song she has ever released but yes, in so many ways she has enhanced my life for the better. I'm turning 60 in two months and since the age of 15 she has rocked my world. My 2nd fave of all time is Andy Williams and The Beatles come in 3rd.

Of all the artists out there, Stevie Nicks isn't even on my radar. I think her career was made from having other artists help her.
I'm talking about actors, writers, painters, musicians, show runners, fashion designers, etc.

I adored Stevie when I was a child, but then again that was because of my love for Fleetwood Mac and the two amazing solo albums. But she's never been even close to my favorite of all time.
Christine McVie is top 5 of my musicians. Someone like Neil Peart or Lyle Mays might be my favorite artist of all time, and neither of them even sing. (but that changes with my moods, and eras of my life).

My comment to Unwinded was genuine. Must be disappointing to have someone you still adore ,AND your favorite turn out to be such an entitled, ego laden buffoon.

jbrownsjr

12-20-2021, 08:46 AM

UnwindedDreams

12-20-2021, 09:41 AM

Many Stevie fans proclaim to be both, but the band doesn't exist to them without her. Those people aren't really Fleetwood Mac fans, IMO.

I would agree with that opinion up until 2018. If Stevie left FM today, it wouldn't be Fleetwood Mac because 2018 is when FM became her E Street Band or Silver Bullet Band. In 2021, Stevie Nicks is Fleetwood Mac like Chrissie Hynde is Pretenders.

If Finnwood Mike makes an album, then I'll call it FM.

UnwindedDreams

12-20-2021, 09:44 AM

Of all the artists out there, Stevie Nicks isn't even on my radar. I think her career was made from having other artists help her.
I'm talking about actors, writers, painters, musicians, show runners, fashion designers, etc.

She's like a commercial conception nurtured by executives and producers, right? Like a Bieber, Madonna, or Celine Dion.

HomerMcvie

12-20-2021, 10:46 AM

I would agree with that opinion up until 2018. If Stevie left FM today, it wouldn't be Fleetwood Mac because 2018 is when FM became her E Street Band or Silver Bullet Band. In 2021, Stevie Nicks is Fleetwood Mac like Chrissie Hynde is Pretenders.

If Finnwood Mike makes an album, then I'll call it FM.
Well, for the casual fan, $tevie (now) IS FM.

Throw back to the Time era, that lineup couldn't get past the specter of the Rumours 5.

I have accepted other lineups in the past(Time band), HOWEVER, Old I'm Not The Boss's power play, seizing control of the band, has forever ruined their legacy. Because it's no longer a BAND. It's now Stevie Nick's FM.
It's not even about Lindsey as much as it is her- seizing control.
F*ck her and her massive ego.

jbrownsjr

12-20-2021, 10:59 AM

She's like a commercial conception nurtured by executives and producers, right? Like a Bieber, Madonna, or Celine Dion.

I used to consider her an artist. Now, she's just an IA seat filler that bellows really bad vocals.

elle

12-20-2021, 01:05 PM

I would agree with that opinion up until 2018. If Stevie left FM today, it wouldn't be Fleetwood Mac because 2018 is when FM became her E Street Band or Silver Bullet Band. In 2021, Stevie Nicks is Fleetwood Mac like Chrissie Hynde is Pretenders.

i don't really understand this logic.

Bruce wrote/co-wrote all Bruce and E-street band songs.
Chrissie wrote/co-wrote all Pretenders songs.

or they had some covers, but not songs exclusively written by other band members. but they were/are the principal songwriters.

Stevie Nicks wrote or co-wrote less than one third of Fleetwood Mac hits, and about a third of their songs all together. how can FM be equal to these other bands?

SteveMacD

12-20-2021, 01:52 PM

Stevie Nicks wrote or co-wrote less than one third of Fleetwood Mac hits, and about a third of their songs all together. how can FM be equal to these other bands?

Especially since Christine wrote most of the band’s hits and she was still there.

The initial setlist of the 2018 tour featured a lot of songs from eras that didn’t involve Stevie as well as a few legendary songs from the new guys’ careers, which seems to further emphasize that Fleetwood Mac is the opposite of those bands.

jbrownsjr

12-20-2021, 02:07 PM

Especially since Christine wrote most of the band’s hits and she was still there.

The initial setlist of the 2018 tour featured a lot of songs from eras that didn’t involve Stevie as well as a few legendary songs from the new guys’ careers, which seems to further emphasize that Fleetwood Mac is the opposite of those bands.

I just read an article from 2020 relating to Christine's contributions.

https://jeremyhelligar.medium.com/christine-mcvie-fleetwood-macs-unsung-heroine-fadd4f03b217

SteveMacD

12-20-2021, 02:33 PM

I just read an article from 2020 relating to Christine's contributions.

https://jeremyhelligar.medium.com/christine-mcvie-fleetwood-macs-unsung-heroine-fadd4f03b217

Interesting, but am I the only one who gets annoyed when they refer to 1970-74 as “bluesy?” Like, have they actually listened to those records? Do they know what blues music is and sounds like?

UnwindedDreams

12-20-2021, 02:51 PM

as well as a few legendary songs from the new guys’ careers

Why do you think they didn't play any original Stevie solo songs or any Chris solo songs?

Surprised there's no live album from this tour.

UnwindedDreams

12-20-2021, 02:54 PM

i don't really understand this logic.

Bruce wrote/co-wrote all Bruce and E-street band songs.
Chrissie wrote/co-wrote all Pretenders songs.

or they had some covers, but not songs exclusively written by other band members. but they were/are the principal songwriters.

Stevie Nicks wrote or co-wrote less than one third of Fleetwood Mac hits, and about a third of their songs all together. how can FM be equal to these other bands?
Because from 2018 on, Stevie almost sings co-lead on Chris songs, imo, but for Hold Me. Chris doesn't have major singing parts on Stevie's live songs.

It's kind of like The Stones. Keith gets two songs but it's Mick's show. FM is the Stevie show. When she's not on stage it's for a shawl change.

David

12-20-2021, 03:58 PM

My 2nd fave of all time is Andy Williams Give me the simple life. If you come to my house, you’ll hear me sing “The Days of Wine and Roses.” I have always loved Mr. Williams for his spectacular singing and his engaging personality. That may shock some people because they think I’m edgy and bitter.

SteveMacD

12-20-2021, 04:36 PM

Because from 2018 on, Stevie almost sings co-lead on Chris songs, imo, but for Hold Me. Chris doesn't have major singing parts on Stevie's live songs.

It's kind of like The Stones. Keith gets two songs but it's Mick's show. FM is the Stevie show. When she's not on stage it's for a shawl change.

Eh, I saw both bands within a year of each other and don’t agree with that assessment.

I took Stevie singing on Christine’s songs as being more about Christine’s voice getting weaker than Stevie wanting more attention. She also did that on the 2014-15 tour. As for doing that on Neil’s songs, I took that more as her way of integrating that material into the context of Fleetwood Mac.

However, it was a new lineup and only Christine’s second tour since coming out of retirement. Christine was basically gone from the public eye for 24 years, save for the six months-ish for The Dance.

UnwindedDreams

12-20-2021, 04:47 PM

Eh, I saw both bands within a year of each other and don’t agree with that assessment.

I took Stevie singing on Christine’s songs as being more about Christine’s voice getting weaker than Stevie wanting more attention. She also did that on the 2014-15 tour. As for doing that on Neil’s songs, I took that more as her way of integrating that material into the context of Fleetwood Mac.

However, it was a new lineup and only Christine’s second tour since coming out of retirement. Christine was basically gone from the public eye for 24 years, save for the six months-ish for The Dance.
All opinions here!
Her singing on Neil's songs is because she wanted to sing those songs. Neil said from the stage he was asked to sing Don't Dream and I Got You.

It was a different lineup but no new songs or re-recorded classics which stinks because I think it would've been the right way of proceeding.

You didn't think the No Fikter concert was Mick's show?
Keith is lost up there

elle

12-20-2021, 05:00 PM

It's kind of like The Stones. Keith gets two songs but it's Mick's show.

Keith is co-writer of all songs but Mick sings 90% plus of those co-written songs.

whatever FM might be on stage these days, that doesn't change who wrote and recorded and sang all those songs. minute minority of people see the current live performances, if there are any.

another thing why Mick and Stevie are different - Mick's solo career tanked over and over, every time he tried, no matter how larger than life he is as a frontman, singer and songwriter for the Stones. as a solo act, she was successful for a while, while Mick Jagger is usually touted as that weird example of a hugely successful and known singer/songwriter and the face of the band who somehow never managed to succeed as a solo act.

SteveMacD

12-20-2021, 05:56 PM

Keith is co-writer of all songs but Mick sings 90% plus of those co-written songs.

whatever FM might be on stage these days, that doesn't change who wrote and recorded and sang all those songs. minute minority of people see the current live performances, if there are any.

another thing why Mick and Stevie are different - Mick's solo career tanked over and over, every time he tried, no matter how larger than life he is as a frontman, singer and songwriter for the Stones. as a solo act, she was successful for a while, while Mick Jagger is usually touted as that weird example of a hugely successful and known singer/songwriter and the face of the band who somehow never managed to succeed as a solo act.

My theory on that is that Fleetwood Mac (Rumours lineup) only had three studio albums and a live album released in five years with Stevie as vocalist only on thirteen songs when she did Bella Donna. She was a known commodity, but hadn’t become overkill.

The Stones had been around for 22 years and had released 20 albums before Mick Jagger tried going solo.

BombaySapphire3

12-20-2021, 11:13 PM

another thing why Mick and Stevie are different - Mick's solo career tanked over and over, every time he tried, no matter how larger than life he is as a frontman, singer and songwriter for the Stones. as a solo act, she was successful for a while, while Mick Jagger is usually touted as that weird example of a hugely successful and known singer/songwriter and the face of the band who somehow never managed to succeed as a solo act.

Jagger ain't the only one. Ann Wilson who many would consider Rock's greatest female singer never got off the ground solo. Debbie Harry had numerous albums all of them tanked in the U.S .I think she had one or two UK hits (Blondie were always bigger there).

SteveMacD

12-21-2021, 12:47 AM

Jagger ain't the only one. Ann Wilson who many would consider Rock's greatest female singer never got off the ground solo. Debbie Harry had numerous albums all of them tanked in the U.S .I think she had one or two UK hits (Blondie were always bigger there).

Woah. I just realized Dennis DeYoung and Steve Perry had more successful solo careers than Mick Jagger :shocked:

BombaySapphire3

12-21-2021, 01:08 AM

Woah. I just realized Dennis DeYoung and Steve Perry had more successful solo careers than Mick Jagger :shocked:

Oh Sherie and Desert Moon are all time classics!:blob1:

SteveMacD

12-21-2021, 01:16 AM

Oh Sherie and Desert Moon are all time classics!:blob1:

Okay, now name Mick Jagger’s big solo hit!

https://lonestarpestsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/shutterstock_550516177.jpg

HomerMcvie

12-21-2021, 01:21 AM

Okay, now name Mick Jagger’s big solo hit!

https://lonestarpestsolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/shutterstock_550516177.jpg
She's The Boss.

VERY ironically related to Old I'm Not The Boss.

HomerMcvie

12-21-2021, 01:22 AM

Oh Sherie and Desert Moon are all time classics!:blob1:

Steve Perry's first album was pretty great!

elle

12-21-2021, 01:27 AM

She's The Boss.

VERY ironically related to Old I'm Not The Boss.

Just Another Night from She's The Boss was US #1.

Dancing in the Street was US #3, and #1 in UK, Ire, and Australia.

Jagger has 9 top 10 US solo singles.

just tells you how when you are as hugely successful as the Stones, the measure of solo success is a bit different.

SteveMacD

12-21-2021, 01:55 AM

She's The Boss.

Never heard it :laugh:

The other two I’ve been trying to binge drink out of memory with not much success.

HomerMcvie

12-21-2021, 02:26 AM

Never heard it :laugh:

The other two I’ve been trying to binge drink out of memory with not much success.

god, I've got a cassette, somewhere. Or used to. Might have tossed it out the car window at some point. :lol:

Nicks Fan

12-21-2021, 09:19 AM

There is a Facebook Group called Fleetwood Mac News and they are discussing this supposed 2022 FM tour and a member is claiming that back in September Stevie's Publicist shared this press release exclusively with his 24 Karat gold page. It's nowhere to be found on her own official social media pages. When called out they claim that they work for The Charlotte Observer and write a very successful weekly column for Life and Style Magazine. Several of us searched their name and can find not a single Byline or Article written by him.

The following is a statement provided to us from Stevie Nicks’ publicist, Kristen Foster:
Stevie Nicks on Lindsey Buckingham’s recent 2021 remarks
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
“First and foremost, Lindsey is a genius, both in the studio and onstage and his contribution to Fleetwood Mac will never be overlooked, because I am fiercely protective over that legacy.
However…
With time comes hindsight and Lindsey has done things that I am not prepared to forgive. Those things reach far beyond what happened in 2018. Maybe I will write about these things in my memoirs. Maybe I won’t.
But what’s done is done and at my age, I don’t believe in going backward. That being said, and while I wish nothing but the best for him moving forward, I will never be in the same room with him again. Period.”

Then there is these two wackos one named Marion who keeps posting in virtually all fan groups that FM fired Lindsey to save and or protect her from the abuse of Lindsey since he has been abusing her and they want to keep her safe. She was kicked out of the Buckingham Nicks Facebook group because of her constant BS posts. The other is Jimmy and he tried to lecture me by saying Stevie has NEVER played venues as small as the ones Lindsey has to play. I pointed out the several Casino and theater shows she did during the IYD tour as well as the fact that she played the Sands Event Center a 2500 seat venue in 2016 a year before Buckingham McVie did. He also said she did a MASSIVE tour following her dates with Rod and I'm like no she didn't. There like 44 shows in the USA not counting her dates with Rod and then like 10 or so in Australia but realistically in a 2 year period FM and even Lindsey has done more shows then she did for IYD ( Not counting the Dates with Rod).

Some of her most loyal fans are also her most brain dead. They actually think Lindsey is like another Ike Turner and that he beat Stevie for years and countless others and even when you post words from her own mouth that prove them wrong they get quite defensive. You would think they would be happy she's not a victim of the metoo movement nor been a victim of domestic violence.

UnwindedDreams

12-21-2021, 09:52 AM

The following is a statement provided to us from Stevie Nicks’ publicist, Kristen Foster:
Stevie Nicks on Lindsey Buckingham’s recent 2021 remarks
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
“First and foremost, Lindsey is a genius, both in the studio and onstage and his contribution to Fleetwood Mac will never be overlooked, because I am fiercely protective over that legacy.
However…
With time comes hindsight and Lindsey has done things that I am not prepared to forgive. Those things reach far beyond what happened in 2018. Maybe I will write about these things in my memoirs. Maybe I won’t.
But what’s done is done and at my age, I don’t believe in going backward. That being said, and while I wish nothing but the best for him moving forward, I will never be in the same room with him again. Period.”

Some of her most loyal fans are also her most brain dead. They actually think Lindsey is like another Ike Turner and that he beat Stevie for years and countless others and even when you post words from her own mouth that prove them wrong they get quite defensive. You would think they would be happy she's not a victim of the metoo movement nor been a victim of domestic violence.
Stevie said they had a Long Talk in 2012 where she told him everything she thought he did wrong to her.

If Lindsey was violent with Stevie/abused her, did Mick or John know? Did Mick know when he was saying he would love for Lindsey to perform with Fleetwood Mac again and that it almost made him cry when he thought of how many fans would like an FM reunion with Lindsey?

I don't think that statement is real because Stevie wouldn't say Lindsey is a genius or be protective of his legacy.