The "Rock A Little" album discussion podcast

[JeremyGloff]

Hey friends!

Here it is, all two a half hours of talking about 1985's "Rock A Little" in depth. And of course the beloved "Live At Red Rocks" --- have no fear - I did no refilm and of the podcast with new close ups LOL!!

Thanks to all who joined it was blast!

https://youtu.be/OkW7aNln9Ag

[J.Miller]

Hey friends!

Here it is, all two a half hours of talking about 1985's "Rock A Little" in depth. And of course the beloved "Live At Red Rocks" --- have no fear - I did no refilm and of the podcast with new close ups LOL!!

Thanks to all who joined it was blast!

https://youtu.be/OkW7aNln9Ag

Thank you Jeremy for having me on your podcast again. Once again it was fun and I learned a few things. Having 7 on the panel worked fine and adding more would only add to the fun. Until next month once again thank you.

[mitzo]

Amazing discussion of what is really her most interesting album. I will not easily recover from the negativity about my beloved Rock a Little and The Nightmare, though.

[David]

This is a cool discussion. I’m digging these. How about doing some of these for the various tours?

[David]

Amazing discussion of what is really her most interesting album. I will not easily recover from the negativity about my beloved Rock a Little and The Nightmare, though.“Nightmare” is my favorite!

[On Ice]

Not my favourite album but thoroughly enjoyed your discussion of it. As with many Stevie eras, so much material to choose from and a few of the forgotten tracks could've really given it a boost, most of which you touched on- Mirror,Mirror, Battle of the Dragon, Running Through the Garden etc. Nice work guys, "I Can't Wait" for the Other Side of the Mirror!

[mitzo]

“Nightmare” is my favorite!

Blinded by the light of the day!

[Macfan4life]

Jeremy.....my brother, I have 3 words to say: This. Is. Serious.

OMG! This was incredible. It made me late for work this morning and I could not stop watching. What an amazing panel of Stevie experts. Fans are so diverse but I was in awe how I agreed with the panel 90% of the time. It was like being stranded on an island for 40 years and finally finding someone that speaks your language. I was shouting AMEN after multiple comments from the panel. This was so good that I wanted to smoke a cigarette after watching this. Its long but I could not get enough. I will give my thoughts as if I was part of the panel. IMHO fans view this album differently of those who followed Stevie's career real time vs being young and working backwards. Like many of the panel the 2 year wait for this album was almost too much to take. I was 15 when it was released and at the peak of my cult worship. I remember hearing Talk To Me on the radio on Halloween night 1985. I was so excited but sort of let down. Nothing spectacular. When I bought the album several weeks later, I played the hell out of it convincing myself to like it but even at my cultist level, I was so disappointed. WTF was this crap? What made Stevie special was her incredible writing and when that writing was put into good music with a good hook, those epic songs became hits. I agree with the one panel member who stated you almost could sense many of these songs that were written by other people were brought in at the last minute to try and salvage and save the album. And those songs are meh at best. What happened to the Stevie who said she needed a solo career because she had such a huge catalog and 3 songs every 3 years was not enough for her? I also appreciated the precise knowledge of a few panel members who reminded me of a few things. You have to read between the lines but Stevie was so out of control that the release of this album and videos were not done in typical fashion. After a 2 year wait, Stevie did no press about the album. Her reps kept her from talking to most everyone. Talk to Me was released in late October 1985 but the world premiere video on MTV did not happen to December. For such a release, any artist would have the video ready to go. Not Stevie. The shooting for the Talk To Me video was cancelled because she was "sick." That delayed the video until the song was already on the charts. I just remember searching and watching for the video constantly during the month of November. She was in Australia with Tom and was asked why she was not in the states promoting her new album. She was probably more out of control than Whitney Houston. Also the RAL tour started when the album was already leaving the charts. IMHO, HAEWFY was released purposely to kill the album after the tour. Stevie desperately needed help and a possible 3rd single like Sister Honey or If I Were You would have extended her problems. RAL destroyed Stevie's rock chops. She was now shunned by rock stations. I will write my comments on the songs later today. The album starts out with an electronic orchestra of sound where Stevie needs to yell to be heard of the music. The next track (title track) is so odd and has no direction. That is followed up by a funky Prince-esq song Sister Honey. LMAO. I never could stand a funky Stevie as much as I hated her Madonna like neon gloves in the Talk To Me video. Girl, you are 38 and the queen of rock, why are you playing to the cheap seats of current bubble gum pop trends. I will say your joke when a panelist asked what contribution did Stevie's brother make to The Nightmare for him to get credit made me fall out of my chair laughing. True story!


Panelist asked what Chris did to deserved writing credit on the song?
Jeremy: He wheeled in the same glass table into the room while she was writing

OMG that killed me. THANK YOU. I have always said how the glass table is a drug reference when people sit across a glass table. But is not any glass table....it the SAME glass table i.e. this table has a purpose.

[greendaze5]

This was incredible. It made me late for work this morning and I could not stop watching. What an amazing panel of Stevie experts. Fans are so diverse but I was in awe how I agreed with the panel 90% of the time.

I myself was surprised that we went on for that long. :nod:

Being that 'RAL' is generally less beloved than 'BD' or' TWH', I thought there would've been much less to say. But add in the demos, the hilarity of 'Red Rocks', the craziness surrounding Stevie at this time, etc., etc... :lol:

Roland

[Macfan4life]

I myself was surprised that we went on for that long. :nod:

Being that 'RAL' is generally less beloved than 'BD' or' TWH', I thought there would've been much less to say. But add in the demos, the hilarity of 'Red Rocks', the craziness surrounding Stevie at this time, etc., etc... :lol:

Roland
It went on that long because there is SO MUCH to talk about. The songs are a mess and the choices are strange and fascinating. I fell out of my chair laughing at Jeremy's top 10 Red Rocks list. The album and concert video are a train wreck so there is so much to dissect and talk about.

[David]

I was disappointed in the Rock a Little tour because she didn’t sound like she did on the album.

[On Ice]

Another interesting topic re Rock a Little- was there a scrapped Mirror Mirror album?

[BombaySapphire3]

Another interesting topic re Rock a Little- was there a scrapped Mirror Mirror album?

There was alright ..she should just release it now. It might be better than RAL.

[bwboy]

I thought the discussion was great and entertaining! I really hope, Jeremy, that you will do the same treatment for FM albums, too.

My thoughts about RAL: I love Talk to Me and was surprised at the general apathy towards it by the panelists. It’s one of her highest charting hits, it was nominated for a Grammy, and she sang the heck out of it! And she looked beautiful in the video, and she wore dresses that weren’t just black, for God’s sake LOL! I don’t care whether she wrote the song or not, she gave it an incredible vocal and that’s what’s important, not who wrote it.

I’ve always said that RAL seemed to be Stevie’s attempt to lighten up. Her best friend died, she got divorced, she was on drugs, and BD and TWH were fairly dark albums, all of which probably contributed to, maybe subconsciously, her attempt to make a poppier, brighter album. And if she wanted a brighter album, it made sense she would go to other songwriters- after all, this is the woman who wrote Rhiannon, Nothing Ever Changes, Gold Dust Woman, and Sisters of the Moon, all pretty dark songs. Talk to Me, If I Were You, Some Become Strangers were all very optimistic. I just think RAL was Stevie’s attempt to go for a brighter sound and maybe went in that direction too far.

[aleuzzi]

Surprised there was a pronounced appreciation for “Imperial Hotel.” I have always felt this song was the best song (by far) on RAL, though I know I’m in the minority. Most dismiss it.

When I first heard it, I laughed out loud with pure joy and relief. It was, for me, the only glimpse of the Stevie I had come to love through previous records in and beyond FM. It showed that even at one of her lowest points she could still turn in powerful performances.

[Macfan4life]

I thought the discussion was great and entertaining! I really hope, Jeremy, that you will do the same treatment for FM albums, too.

My thoughts about RAL: I love Talk to Me and was surprised at the general apathy towards it by the panelists. It’s one of her highest charting hits, it was nominated for a Grammy, and she sang the heck out of it! And she looked beautiful in the video, and she wore dresses that weren’t just black, for God’s sake LOL! I don’t care whether she wrote the song or not, she gave it an incredible vocal and that’s what’s important, not who wrote it.

I’ve always said that RAL seemed to be Stevie’s attempt to lighten up. Her best friend died, she got divorced, she was on drugs, and BD and TWH were fairly dark albums, all of which probably contributed to, maybe subconsciously, her attempt to make a poppier, brighter album. And if she wanted a brighter album, it made sense she would go to other songwriters- after all, this is the woman who wrote Rhiannon, Nothing Ever Changes, Gold Dust Woman, and Sisters of the Moon, all pretty dark songs. Talk to Me, If I Were You, Some Become Strangers were all very optimistic. I just think RAL was Stevie’s attempt to go for a brighter sound and maybe went in that direction too far.
All of us fans are diverse and like different aspects of their career. I can only speak for myself and I agree with the panel who saw RAL unfold in real time. I became a Stevie/Mac fan because of her incredible poetry and writing that was put into song. Many of those songs because huge hits. Being that she had a cool voice was just the icing on the cake. After waiting 2 years for the intense song writer and anticipation of an album called Rock A Little, many of us fans were so disappointed. Any artist could have performed Talk To Me just like Everyday. Sappy pop songs. I remember even the reviews of Rock A Little that were very positive called out 2 oddballs: Talk to Me and Rock A Little. There was nothing "Stevie" about this song. It would not be a song that she would write either. I don't consider her work "dark" as you describe. Stevie once got pissed at Tom Petty for calling Stevie a pop artist. She said she ran across the other side of the room when he said it. This album Stevie fully embraced the current funky pop. But the sad part is IMHO the brilliant songs like I Sing For The Things are ruined by fake programmed bass. It takes the sincerity away from the song. I totally got when the one panelist praised HAEWAFY and the opening piano but once it went to the electronic keyboard, the song loses its passion and sincerity. This is why I said I totally appreciated this panel because we see this album in similar terms. There are those younger than us that work they way back in the material and only view songs as songs and don't see how the artistry changed. Chart numbers dont do anything for songs that dont hold up. Every day I can find Edge of 17 on the radio somewhere and it only went to #12. You NEVER hear I Cant Wait on the radio and rarely hear Talk To Me. While Bella Donna sales keep going, RAL sales are not really on the rise.
Having said all that, I also agree with the panels "What could have been" statements. Some of her RAL leftovers were written by her and even in their bloated 80s trashy sound they are far superior to most everything on the album. I like artistry that Stevie definitely had the talent for her songs. But its truly amazing she survived this era. I really dont think she really cared what she was doing. She did not even promote the album, ran away to Australia instead of promoting it, ditched her RAL tour rehearsals, and could not even do a simple music video. Remember it was NOT her that decided she needed help. Her management had an intervention and forced her to go. Its funny but scary the things that were pointed out in the Red Rocks video like Jennifer Congo's facial reactions and Dennis Dunston trying to get her on stage. She was in no state to be recording and touring. IMHO its no wonder we ended up with crappy songs. And yes, I sort of think Talk To Me is a crappy song. Because she managed to get through a vocal on probably the simplest pop song to sing should not really be praised. It has the simplest lyrics and is not that complicated.

[On Ice]

Talk to Me has not aged well, very cheesy 80's vibe and the lyrics- you could change to Text Me Baby. Stevie is not a great covers singer, she has written far too many of her own songs and is not a good direction for a prolific songwriter, unless she made make it a priority to do her own songs first. For light heartedness, she could have turned to the blue crystal mirror in the vault- Secret Love would've been decent with the 80's sheen, Starshine, and what about You Like Me a decent rock song to rock a little to. I guess the A and R Man didn't hear a single and they needed a Talk to Me. All in all, this messy album crashed the momentum in her career and harmed her reputation as a song writer, it didn't really recover until the Dance a decade or so later.

[BLY]

I enjoyed listening to the panels perspective and opinions of Rock a Little and Stevie’s state in 1985/1987. I have been a fan since 1976 and followed Fleetwood Mac’s music as it’s the soundtrack of my life. I loved Rock a Little when it was released and loved the craziness of that tour. I’m happy she survived those drug years but it was a great chapter of music IMO.

[bwboy]

Talk to Me has not aged well, very cheesy 80's vibe and the lyrics- you could change to Text Me Baby. Stevie is not a great covers singer, she has written far too many of her own songs and is not a good direction for a prolific songwriter, unless she made make it a priority to do her own songs first. For light heartedness, she could have turned to the blue crystal mirror in the vault- Secret Love would've been decent with the 80's sheen, Starshine, and what about You Like Me a decent rock song to rock a little to. I guess the A and R Man didn't hear a single and they needed a Talk to Me. All in all, this messy album crashed the momentum in her career and harmed her reputation as a song writer, it didn't really recover until the Dance a decade or so later.

I don’t think the title “Talk to Me” is outdated LOL. Even in the world of the internet, cell phones, and social media, people do in fact still talk. I also don’t think the album stalled her career- her drug use is what stalled her career. Perhaps her drug use is why she wasn’t able to contribute more songs to RAL, and why she didn’t do more press, and all the other things mentioned. Then going to rehab interfered with her contributions to Tango, and then she had another not so fantastic album with Other Side of the Mirror along with a not so best selling Behind the Mask, all leading to her lowest point with Street Angel. My point is, her career didn’t fall apart or even stall with RAL- but it was the start of a slow descent that only turned around when she did the Dance reunion, and she’s been able to keep the momentum going pretty much ever since.

[UnwindedDreams]

My point is, her career didn’t fall apart or even stall with RAL- but it was the start of a slow descent that only turned around when she did the Dance reunion, and she’s been able to keep the momentum going pretty much ever since.

The momentum is selling music from decades ago and touring successfully. If she was true to her words about Moonlight "Idc if anyone buys it," she would've had an album out after 24Karat anytime from Jan of 2016 to July of 2018. Even when she did press for the 24k album, she said she'd do a second songs from the vault record.

On Rock a Little, she definitely should've done Talk to Me and I Can't Wait on 24 Karat Tour. I'm with you on TTM. She didn't write Stop Draggin but she did a wonderful vocal. Not now... she doesn't go for the chorus anymore

[Macfan4life]

Now my turn to review the album as if I were part of the panel. I dont care for this album but will lean on positive "what ifs"

I CANT WAIT - A fantastic album opener. I think Stevie does a fantastic live vocal. Just like Stand Back, no need to do this one over. Love the opening guitar (one of the few times we hear guitar on this album actually called ROCK a little). The song desperately needs to dial down the disco swooshes and merry go round music near the end. For the love of God someone was throwing in every possible gimmick into this song which just ruined what could have been a huge hit. I think a scaled back version would have been the best lead off single of this album. I can still remember hearing this song for the first time when I was 15. RAL just dropped and the local rock station played it and I was listening on my walkman and ran into my bedroom and cranked my stereo and danced around my bedroom.

ROCK A LITTLE - This has to be the worst album title song in Stevie's catalog. I think its worse than Street Angel. If you were alive in the 80s remember those casio organ players at the mall selling casio keyboards and organs. You could hit a button and get background music. This is what this song reminds me of. Someone hit a button for background music and Waddy came in with a guitar to give it a few licks and someone played a few bass lines. Her voice is beyond horrible and barely audible at times. Even worse is she flubs the important opening lyrics. Sometimes it rages, ROCK A LITTLE, even when its calm still ROCK A LITTLE, just like the sea, I ROCK A LITTLE, say it was just like me still ROCK A LITTLE. These lyrics are important because it goes with her them of cradle rocking, rocking on your feet and then rocking in a chair. She says on the album cut, just like the sea, still rock a little. Hello Stevie. you are supposed to say just like the sea I ROCK A LITTLE so people know what you are talking about. I dont care for this song but the "extended" version is so much better and she does not flub the lyrics and her voice is better. I also love the background vocals. I have always believed that in the drug haze, this horrible version made the album by accident. Every other version I have heard is better than this edited album cut. What a horrible album title track and sets the mood for this crazy album.

SISTER HONEY - Dear God. Girl get a grip you are a 38 year old woman rock star and not Prince. A funky Stevie? Please. No. However this song has an amazing chorus and Les's guitar solo is probably the highlight of the album. Just imagine this song not funked up and maybe Les cranking out loud guitar chords to her ALLRIGHT's. It would have been so damn cool and if you throw in real drums we could have a winner winner chicken dinner. But I'm sorry, I don't want to break dance to Stevie Nicks. So I pass on this song.

I SING FOR THINGS - A very well written song but I prefer the Wild Heart version. But I admire this more intimate version but her voice is so goat it takes away from the song. But that programmed computer bass just completely destroys the mood of this heart felt song. Yes the mid 80s ruined this gem.

IMPERIAL HOTEL - Wow, real instruments. This song stands out and is one of the better tunes. However it sounds like it took the Heartbreakers 5 minutes to write this music. Its B side Heartbreakers at best. The earlier versions are better than this album version. Heavy drug references in this song - same glass table

SOME BECOME STRANGERS - This song is so bad its funny to me. However, the earlier takes of this song are so much better than the album version and contain some better real instruments compared to that 80s crap. Seriously, I don't really need this song in my life. Why don't we forget about it.

TALK TO ME - Crappy and the simplest of pop songs. Never liked it. Stevie never wanted to do it either. I hate how people always say.........it was written by the same person who wrote Missing You. For the love of god, this song is no Missing you. Its so lame that even the sax part is the lamest sax part of any song ever. The song should have been recorded how it is done live.....a bouncy rocker and drop that "YOU CAN's"

THE NIGHTMARE - Stevie recycling lyrics on this one or is it Chris in his lame attempt to try and be Stevie. This song is not bad but dear God that programmed drumming gets on my nerves....... its like a robot. The extended cut with the opening guitar should have been on the album. EVERY version of this song I have heard is better than the album version. Just imagine this song with real drums and edited down and keeping the opening guitar on the extended version. Can you say WOW?

IF I WERE YOU - This is the perfect pop single. Surprised it was not the lead single or third single but I hate it. Its a beautiful pop song but its something Stevie would never write. Those electronic drums are so funny though. It is a catchy song though. For real.

NO SPOKEN WORD - This song live is an animal with Stevie speaking in tongues but the album version sucks because its so synthed with programmed bass and electronic 80s. Just imagine a similar live version on the album. Hello!!! You fill the room with the rain, the wind, and the water. Lets make a deal here!

HAEWFY - Great ballad and album closer but when the piano changes to a cheap casio keyboard the ballad loses its power and intensity. Its a good song but terrible third single like this was really going to be played on pop radio?

Now just imagine the changes I mentioned and adding Battle of the Dragon, One More Big Time Rock and Roll Star with a better vocal, Running Through the Garden, and Violet and Blue. With these 4 additions, I would remove Some Become Strangers, Rock A Little, and If I Were You.

How this never made the album shows no one was listening. Listen to that bass. Gosh this is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3NHgXSh_C4

[greendaze5]

Seriously, I don't really need this song in my life. Why don't we forget about it.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

So agree with you there! Why Stevie did 'Some Become Strangers' is beyond me. :confused:

Maybe it was a toss-up between this and her remake of Olivia Newton-John's 'Tied Up In Promises' (was she that hard up for material??) which was considered for 'RAL'.

For someone who complained about not having enough song space on FM records so she had to go solo, and has filing cabinets of poetry/lyrics, why did she put this on the record? She didn't write it, and it's forgettable. I would have liked 'Battle of The Dragon', which got lost in a movie no one saw. Remember 'American Anthem'? I don't. :distress:

You should join us next month on 'the other side of the mirror'. :wavey:

[bwboy]

:So agree with you there! Why Stevie did 'Some Become Strangers' is beyond me. :confused: For someone who complained about not having enough song space on FM records so she had to go solo, and has filing cabinets of poetry/lyrics, why did she put this on the record? She didn't write it, and it's forgettable. I would have liked 'Battle of The Dragon', which got lost in a movie no one saw. Remember 'American Anthem'? I don't. :distress:

Thanks for participating on the panel, you all did a great job and it was very entertaining! As for why Stevie didn’t use more of her own material on RAL, I think a song like Battle of the Dragon, which seemed to be about depression, really wouldn’t have fit on that album, when she was aiming for a lighter mood. Plus, it seemed like whenever a song by Stevie or FM was put out once, whether on a soundtrack or a B-side, they deliberately left it off future albums. Silver Springs, for example, could have been put on Tusk, but apparently the band didn’t want to waste vinyl space using it again when it had already been released as a B-side. I suspect Stevie or the record company didn’t want previously released songs taking up space on her new album.

[JeremyGloff]

I'm loving reading everyone's expanded thoughts and additional opinions. I love that we are all giving each other space to have our own opinions as there are no rights or wrongs.

The more I thought after the podcast I realized I should have emphasized more that as entertained...and moved as I was by Stevie's "Rock A Little" tour for its camp factor and outrageousness...Steve from the panel made a good point. The most beautiful things of it all is she survived it.

I am thankful I grew up in the time when our icons were truly larger than life...and not as accessible as performers are now in the social media era. Stevie showed the world her "rock bottom" through her performance and her art (for better or worse) instead of public paparazzi meltdowns. Because her struggle was truly filtered through songs...it's easy to forget that she was an addicted and struggling human being up there crumbling in front of the world. It's funny at times...but it's really not at all. So thank you Steve for that perspective. It stayed with me in the days after the podcast.

During the podcast I said the only other song that reminded me of "Rock A Little" was "Annie Christian" by Prince but I take that back. Another song that really gives me the same vibe sonically is "Bon Voyage" by Kim Carnes.

Loving these discussions. OSOTM can't get here fast enough.

[Macfan4life]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

So agree with you there! Why Stevie did 'Some Become Strangers' is beyond me. :confused:

Maybe it was a toss-up between this and her remake of Olivia Newton-John's 'Tied Up In Promises' (was she that hard up for material??) which was considered for 'RAL'.

For someone who complained about not having enough song space on FM records so she had to go solo, and has filing cabinets of poetry/lyrics, why did she put this on the record? She didn't write it, and it's forgettable. I would have liked 'Battle of The Dragon', which got lost in a movie no one saw. Remember 'American Anthem'? I don't. :distress:

You should join us next month on 'the other side of the mirror'. :wavey:
I would love to join if its a day I have the time. I sometimes feel that I am in the minority on this board who believes TOSOTM is a huge step up from RAL. She is without Waddy and venturing into other producers for the first time in her career. Her voice is so much better than RAL and the music is so much better. The tracks are so intimately written that sometimes I wonder if the klonopin accidently made her reveal things. So many songs about drug addiction. But TOSOTM suffers a tiny bit what RAL did and that is a few lame songs that someone else wrote like Cry Wolf. That song was done by just about everyone. But I remember feeling love for the music which is something I never felt on RAL. Her writing was incredible on the album and right before her lights were turned out for several years. However TOSOTM has the worst leftovers and not used demos of any album unlike RAL. I totally see why songs like Dial The Number were not used and they needed a Cry Wolf. I also think Rupert did a great job with what he had to work with. Its tough putting poetry into commercial songs esp songs like Escape From Berlin but he did it.

Back to RAL era. Has anyone ever seen the TRUE HOLLYWOOD STORY of Gimmie A Break? Its on youtube but it reminds me of Stevie during this time. Nell Carter was so addicted to cocaine that she could barely get through shooting a few seasons of the show. Many times the actors would show up prepared to shoot only told to go home because Nell was "sick." She would go to rehab and then she would break down again. She almost lost not only her TV career but also her life. When you are a star and the world revolves around you, its so much easier to get away with such scary and outrageous behavior. In Mick's first book he writes that Stevie's record company tried to keep Stevie away from the band due to the success of Wild Heart and they wanted another album before she would go back to the Mac. I think her record company saw her as a brand more than an artist which is a shame. They wanted an album and they fully embraced the funky light pop of the moment. Most artists did embrace a bit of 80s sound but RAL is marinating it in. For example, Don Henley's Building The Perfect Beast sounds 80s with the keyboards in Sunset Grill and the funky All She Wants To Do Is Dance but Don did not lose his integrity or artistry in that brilliant album. IMHO Stevie not only lost her rock chops but artist credibility with RAL.

[greendaze5]

Has anyone ever seen the TRUE HOLLYWOOD STORY of Gimmie A Break? Its on youtube but it reminds me of Stevie during this time. Nell Carter was so addicted to cocaine that she could barely get through shooting a few seasons of the show.

Wow, I didn't know that about Nell Carter.

I love 'Gimme A Break'. Nell was also a great singer. I remember she did the show's theme song, and also 'Ain't Got No' in the excellent movie 'Hair', among other things.

[snroxman]

The RAL album was an interesting point in time. Some of the material we didn't get on the album might have helped make it a much stronger release. I would have preferred "I Can't Wait" as the first single with "Talk to Me" as the second single.

"I Can't Wait" - agree completely with others comments. Too many effects were applied to this track. I think it would have been easier to perform on that tour and been a stronger song with far fewer effects.

"Talk to Me" - While I also like the original version that eventually ended up on the Time/Life cd, the version on RAL was better long term.

For me, my introduction to RAL was via a heavy rock oriented station in Indy. This station played both "I Can't Wait" and "No Spoken Word" quite a bit early on. The "I Can't Wait" and "Stand Back" performances on the Indy tour stop on 5/30/86 were great!

Podcast - It was great!!! I am looking forward to the next one!

[greendaze5]

I think a song like Battle of the Dragon, which seemed to be about depression, really wouldn’t have fit on that album, when she was aiming for a lighter mood.

Good point!

She even got Tom Petty to sing on 'Battle of the Dragon'. You can find different versions of it on YouTube.

I wonder why she dropped his vocals on the official release? Did she think he was getting over saturated on her albums, now her third?

By the way, the title comes from a Sulamith Wulfing painting from 1944.

https://img.wikioo.org/ADC/Art.nsf/O/9GZPYH/$File/SulamithWulfing-battleofthedragon.JPG

[bwboy]

"I Can't Wait" - agree completely with others comments. Too many effects were applied to this track. I think it would have been easier to perform on that tour and been a stronger song with far fewer effects.

True, but I really think Stevie’s main problem with singing it was that she was so high. It was a new song, with some tricky phrasing and music cues- it would be hard to perform sober; on drugs, it would almost be impossible to perform.

[bwboy]

Good point!

She even got Tom Petty to sing on 'Battle of the Dragon'. You can find different versions of it on YouTube.

I wonder why she dropped his vocals on the official release? Did she think he was getting over saturated on her albums, now her third?

By the way, the title comes from a Sulamith Wulfing painting from 1944.

https://img.wikioo.org/ADC/Art.nsf/O/9GZPYH/$File/SulamithWulfing-battleofthedragon.JPG

That’s cool to know about the painting, thank you for sharing! Initially I didn’t care for the song, but now I really love it, and how deep it is. It’s not only about depression, but even suicide, or at least I see it that way. Maybe that’s why she didn’t include Tom’s vocals on the official release, because of the personal nature of the song? Not that I’m saying Stevie was suicidal, but the lyrics sure seem about someone considering suicide (and fortunately deciding to “stay among the living.”)

[bombaysaffires]

this Sulamith Wulf painting is clearly the inspiration for this Stevie one:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/241013017539476712/

[greendaze5]

this Sulamith Wulf painting is clearly the inspiration for this Stevie one:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/241013017539476712/

Actually, Stevie copied her pink dragon from the book East of the Sun & West of the Moon (1980), illustration by Mercer Mayer.

https://gatherednettles.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/05_mayer_eastofthesun_itlieseastofthesun.jpg

[David]

She even got Tom Petty to sing on 'Battle of the Dragon'. You can find different versions of it on YouTube.

I wonder why she dropped his vocals on the official release? Did she think he was getting over saturated on her albums, now her third?I vaguely recall that Nicks and Petty penned “Dragon,” which sort of grew out of a jam in the studio with the Heartbreakers, and Nicks was trying to pull it into a song for her third album in 1984. A chap named Rob got hold of this demo tape from the Modern office at that time. (Rob used to call me to crow about this or that item of Stevie’s he had got his hands on.) Lori Perry called Rob at some point and left a message on his machine. I remember hearing the voicemail—Lori sounded not terrifically happy and called him “Rob dear.” I think this leak had something to do with the song being rerecorded without the Heartbreakers and buried in the American Anthem movie. It was really the perfect little song for Stevie because it was mysterious and pagan and yet contemporary. It even used this five-tone scale in music, which Lindsey and Christine later used all over Tango in the Night and the solo song “Make Me a Mask.” So in a way, it prefigured the pentatonic sound of Fleetwood Mac a few years later.

[bombaysaffires]

Actually, Stevie copied her pink dragon from the book East of the Sun & West of the Moon (1980), illustration by Mercer Mayer.

https://gatherednettles.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/05_mayer_eastofthesun_itlieseastofthesun.jpg

wow that's even more similar, almost identical in the face.

Has she talked about that book?

[greendaze5]

wow that's even more similar, almost identical in the face.

Has she talked about that book?

Nope, probably because she didn't want people to know she was a copycat. :laugh:

[BombaySapphire3]

Nope, probably because she didn't want people to know she was a copycat. :laugh:

Her two highest charting self penned hits were copycats.

[sarafield]

THANK YOU for pointing out the "Well, I have" in HAEWAFY! I never liked that and thought it was lazy and a bit braggy. Also, the song is about this beautiful moment of going up to a water fountain dedicated to a daughter... and Stevie's lyrics are "I'm writing something for you, doo doo doo... has anyone done this for you... I have given that to you... I'm writing a song right now... " instead of putting any of the actual story in the song!

Now, granted before I ever dabbled in or would have thought about any illicit substance, I thought the same glass table was just a table she sat in a few times in the same hotel on her tours.

[UnwindedDreams]

Her two highest charting self penned hits were copycats.

I get Stand Back because she said she stole Little Corvette but he blessed it by playing some parts on it.

But Leather and Lace? I believed that was all her.

[BombaySapphire3]

I get Stand Back because she said she stole Little Corvette but he blessed it by playing some parts on it.

But Leather and Lace? I believed that was all her.

I was including Dreams...she picked The Spinner's pockets for that one.

[UnwindedDreams]

I was including Dreams...she picked The Spinner's pockets for that one.

I can hear the similarity with their song I'll Be Around. For an awesome cover of Spinners, Paul Stanley does Could It Be I'm Falling Love with so much grace.

[michelej1]

I would usually agree about ditching songs that Stevie did not write, but “Some Become Strangers” is the exception. I love it. And it’s imbued with a longing that I associate with her writing. Thing is, time was .... I just want to sit on a balcony overlooking the water, staring off into the distance with a lump forming in my throat when that part plays.

[mitzo]

The impassioned, committed vocals and rich, complex production on RAL make even the clunkers sound good.

[jbrownsjr]

I would usually agree about ditching songs that Stevie did not write, but “Some Become Strangers” is the exception. I love it. And it’s imbued with a longing that I associate with her writing. Thing is, time was .... I just want to sit on a balcony overlooking the water, staring off into the distance with a lump forming in my throat when that part plays.

I love Some Become Strangers. It's a song that grew on me.

[David]

I remember she put several of her paintings in the Bella Donna songbook from Warner. Did she copy all of them from other artists? Stevie, for shame!

[Macfan4life]

I love Some Become Strangers. It's a song that grew on me.


Its not home, and its not Tara
It happened like a hurricane
I've been here before, right?
I could never tell you what this did to me
Thing is...time was
Did I come here on my own....
Part of me used to love you
Oh....I see
Welcome to the room...strangers
Why dont we forget about it
Of course it was a problem
This light here
The first cut is the deepest one of all
I was hoping to remember you with just a smile
Welcome to the choir sir
I dont really need this in my life
Frontline baby

[michelej1]

The impassioned, committed vocals and rich, complex production on RAL make even the clunkers sound good.

I'd say this about Wild Heart.

[michelej1]

I love Some Become Strangers. It's a song that grew on me.

It's a blend of quirk and pathos. And it perfectly matches what I think of as uniquely Stevie. Also, I was a shipper so . . . I got caught up in the futility of trying to hang on to past love vs. the pain of letting it go. I could never make it better for you anyway.

Back in the day, it was exciting to have the Talk to Me video and it may be fun to hear the song now in CVS, a lively dance memory, but the ditty really has no layers and I feel the same way about I Can't Wait. So, when you have those two on the same album, it's like eating too much cotton candy at the fair.

[Macfan4life]

I dont care for Some Become Strangers but I always liked this version so much better. I dont understand how you can listen to versions and pick the album version. What I like better about this version is the way too heavy background singers are not ooohhing in the beginning. Also her vocal is so much more consistent and stable compared to the album version. If you have not heard this, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDdew8UJ1uU

[bwboy]

I dont care for Some Become Strangers but I always liked this version so much better. I dont understand how you can listen to versions and pick the album version. What I like better about this version is the way too heavy background singers are not ooohhing in the beginning. Also her vocal is so much more consistent and stable compared to the album version. If you have not heard this, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDdew8UJ1uU

Thanks for the link- that version is, indeed, awesome. I like many of her inflections on this version compared to the one on the album. I wish the things I like about both versions could be combined into one song. I also listened to the Williams Brothers performance and it was nice, although I prefer Stevie’s version, maybe because hers was the one I heard first. I fell in love with their song Can’t Cry Hard Enough when it came out- a mini-masterpiece, I’d say.

[bwboy]

It's a blend of quirk and pathos. And it perfectly matches what I think of as uniquely Stevie. Also, I was a shipper so . . . I got caught up in the futility of trying to hang on to past love vs. the pain of letting it go. I could never make it better for you anyway.

Back in the day, it was exciting to have the Talk to Me video and it may be fun to hear the song now in CVS, a lively dance memory, but the ditty really has no layers and I feel the same way about I Can't Wait. So, when you have those two on the same album, it's like eating too much cotton candy at the fair.

I love it when people post things like this. A personal remembrance of how a song can strike a chord with the listener. Reading all these thoughts, plus listening to Jeremy’s YouTube video, makes me want to listen to RAL again, and I will this weekend.

I find it interesting the minor controversy about whether Stevie shouldn’t have sang other people’s songs on RAL. Maybe this is a reflection of how poor a fan I am, but the author of the song isn’t as important to me as how well the song is sang. Truthfully, I love it when artists are willing to sing songs by other writers because it can open new sounds and new ideas. Cyndi Lauper is a songwriter, but True Colors and Time After Time, probably her 2 biggest hits, weren’t written by her. But I’m pretty sure She Bop and Goonies were written by her. I guess my point is I don't care that she didn’t write them, they’re still great songs. Same thing with Talk to Me- it’s a great song and Stevie absolutely does justice to the song. It’s impossible for me to put Talk to Me in the same league as Every Day, based solely on the vocal performance. Her voice has changed significantly, of course, but you can hear passion in Talk to Me; I’m not sure what people hear when they listen to Every Day. Still, just like I love Talk to Me, I’m sure someone feels just as strongly about Every Day, so I get it. The songs Stevie didn’t write on RAL sound great, especially compared to songs she didn’t write on the OSOTM or Street Angel, like Fire Burning, Docklands, or Cry Wolf.

I wish Christine and especially Lindsey had sang songs written or produced by other people, too. For example, comparing You Make Loving Fun to Got a Hold on Me to Love Shines to Save Me, all produced by different folks, it’s great to hear different sounds. Stevie performed Seven Wonders better than the 2 songs she provided for Tango. Lindsey did a great job with his guitar playing on Caution by the Killers- imagine if he could trust Brandon Flowers enough to let him produce or even just write a song or two for Lindsey. I don’t mean for a hit, I mean just to draw something out of him that he may not even be aware is in him.

[michelej1]

I mean, there are some people that I want to do covers. Elvis, Tim McGraw, Luther Vandross. They have no special talent as a songwriter. Their art is their vocal.

But when it’s someone that you admire as a songwriter, to me, it feels like every track that they have not contributed to as a writer is a piece of their art that is lost to fans forever. I feel like I could’ve gotten one more masterpiece from them, but I didn’t, because someone else’s stuff took its place.

Similarly, I was frustrated when she did Rock and Roll in concert, when there were 100 songs of her own she did not perform. Of course, if I didn’t feel back then that her writing itself was so distinct and exceptional, then it wouldn’t have mattered. With most singers, I actually don’t care. And even with someone like Michael Jackson who I think did some great writing, I don’t care if he authored something or not. Because songwriting was way down on the totem poll of the things that I liked about him. With Stevie, Chris and Lindsey I prioritize a bit differently.

[jbrownsjr]

It's a blend of quirk and pathos. And it perfectly matches what I think of as uniquely Stevie. Also, I was a shipper so . . . I got caught up in the futility of trying to hang on to past love vs. the pain of letting it go. I could never make it better for you anyway.

Back in the day, it was exciting to have the Talk to Me video and it may be fun to hear the song now in CVS, a lively dance memory, but the ditty really has no layers and I feel the same way about I Can't Wait. So, when you have those two on the same album, it's like eating too much cotton candy at the fair.

I read a review that said the same thing about Tango.

As for "Some Become.." there's so much truth in these lyrics. The vocal gives them the feel that she wrote them.

Didn't want to be the one to
Say goodbye
In a stranger's eyes
Look how we've changed


Love it! Not much has changed, though... lololol

[greendaze5]

Similarly, I was frustrated when she did Rock and Roll in concert, when there were 100 songs of her own she did not perform.

Ditto for 'Circle Dance' and 'Crash Into Me'.

[Macfan4life]

I read a review that said the same thing about Tango.

As for "Some Become.." there's so much truth in these lyrics. The vocal gives them the feel that she wrote them.

Didn't want to be the one to
Say goodbye
In a stranger's eyes
Look how we've changed


Love it! Not much has changed, though... lololol
Nah...just like laundromat, hurricane is not word Stevie would put in a song.

[UnwindedDreams]

Ditto for 'Circle Dance' and 'Crash Into Me'.

Face the Promise and You Wreck Me for Me. I Need to Know needs a third verse written by her. Such a short song.

[Macfan4life]

Face the Promise and You Wreck Me for Me. I Need to Know needs a third verse written by her. Such a short song.
I always thought the Petty song Change of Heart would be suited so much for her. Its such a damn good song and live is a beast. Her background singers also would add to the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-rDZILYs2o

[michelej1]

Nah...just like laundromat, hurricane is not word Stevie would put in a song.

The woman is practically a meteorologist. Hurricane 100% is a word she would use. Thunder, storm, lightning.

I’ll tell you what is a word she should not have used in a song: barricade.

Even today I search my brain trying to think of something else to be thrown down by.

[HomerMcvie]

The woman is practically a meteorologist. Hurricane 100% is a word she would use. Thunder, storm, lightning.

I’ll tell you what is a word she should not have used in a song: barricade.

Even today I search my brain trying to think of something else to be thrown down by.

Her walls are flaming...

I've always found that to be a HORRIBLE line. I picture all kinds of swabs and antibiotics, or Preparation H.

[UnwindedDreams]

Her walls are flaming...

I've always found that to be a HORRIBLE line. I picture all kinds of swabs and antibiotics, or Preparation H.
Eat the seafood chowder at Fleetwood's On Front Street and you'll appreciate that lyric!:(

[bwboy]

The woman is practically a meteorologist. Hurricane 100% is a word she would use. Thunder, storm, lightning.

I’ll tell you what is a word she should not have used in a song: barricade.

Even today I search my brain trying to think of something else to be thrown down by.

:laugh: That was hilarious! Actually, I think Macfan is incorrect- I listened to Some Become Strangers by the Williams Brothers, and I think they sing the line “In the beginning I believed in love and things, it happened like a holiday.” Stevie changed ‘holiday’ to ‘hurricane.’

[HomerMcvie]

Eat the seafood chowder at Fleetwood's On Front Street and you'll appreciate that lyric!:(

If I ever make it to Hawaii, I'd do my best to not give Mick any of my money.:p

[UnwindedDreams]

If I ever make it to Hawaii, I'd do my best to not give Mick any of my money.:p
Those who live in Lahaina acknowledge it's a rip-off. When I went there, I ate the chowder after my dessert, the portions are tiny.

[Macfan4life]

Those who live in Lahaina acknowledge it's a rip-off. When I went there, I ate the chowder after my dessert, the portions are tiny.
Did he charge you for ice?

[UnwindedDreams]

Did he charge you for ice?

That's an Italian thing, right? I probably just drank water. My friend got a Steven MaiTyler drink

[michelej1]

:laugh: That was hilarious! Actually, I think Macfan is incorrect- I listened to Some Become Strangers by the Williams Brothers, and I think they sing the line “In the beginning I believed in love and things, it happened like a holiday.” Stevie changed ‘holiday’ to ‘hurricane.’

That’s a great discovery. “Hurricane” is totally Stevie. Chimpanzee is not.

[Macfan4life]

That's an Italian thing, right? I probably just drank water. My friend got a Steven MaiTyler drink
I actually meant it as a joke being that Mick is so cheap and bad with his money.

[HomerMcvie]

Those who live in Lahaina acknowledge it's a rip-off. When I went there, I ate the chowder after my dessert, the portions are tiny.
Overpriced tiny portions. How Mick like. FPOS.

[bombaysaffires]

I would usually agree about ditching songs that Stevie did not write, but “Some Become Strangers” is the exception. I love it. And it’s imbued with a longing that I associate with her writing. Thing is, time was .... I just want to sit on a balcony overlooking the water, staring off into the distance with a lump forming in my throat when that part plays.

it's definitely catchy and the lyrics aren't really that far off from the sorts of things she writes about... it's the backing vocals that get on my nerves. In parts they are too forward and it becomes like two different people singing two different songs over each other all the "make it better" "I could never make it" and "go and take your soul". "away stranger" bits over her singing the chorus. I like when they echo her on "thing is/ time was" but the rest is so cluttery and annoying. Why don't we forget about it....

[bombaysaffires]

I dont care for Some Become Strangers but I always liked this version so much better. I dont understand how you can listen to versions and pick the album version. What I like better about this version is the way too heavy background singers are not ooohhing in the beginning. Also her vocal is so much more consistent and stable compared to the album version. If you have not heard this, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDdew8UJ1uU

I didn't see this post til now Macfan... I agree that the backing vocals aren't so distracting and overpowering in this version... they annoy the hell out of me on the album version. Thanks for sharing!

[michelej1]

it's definitely catchy and the lyrics aren't really that far off from the sorts of things she writes about... it's the backing vocals that get on my nerves. In parts they are too forward and it becomes like two different people singing two different songs over each other all the "make it better" "I could never make it" and "go and take your soul". "away stranger" bits over her singing the chorus. I like when they echo her on "thing is/ time was" but the rest is so cluttery and annoying. Why don't we forget about it....

Neither the background nor lead vocals in the body of the song bother me. However I think the outro could be a little gentler and subtle. Towards the end the, you’re no stranger, not that I am begins to sound like she’s having a schizophrenic argument with herself. It almost spoils the mood that preceded it for me, but not quite.

[Macfan4life]

I didn't see this post til now Macfan... I agree that the backing vocals aren't so distracting and overpowering in this version... they annoy the hell out of me on the album version. Thanks for sharing!
Like many of the songs, The Nightmare, SBS, Imperial Hotel, RAL, the album version is the worst version of any of the outtakes. IMHO

[Macfan4life]

Neither the background nor lead vocals in the body of the song bother me. However I think the outro could be a little gentler and subtle. Towards the end the, you’re no stranger, not that I am begins to sound like she’s having a schizophrenic argument with herself. It almost spoils the mood that preceded it for me, but not quite.
Well that schizophrenic part pretty much sums up the album for me :eek:

[bwboy]

I finally listened to RAL and examined the booklet for the first time in years, and it really reinforced my belief that Stevie was aiming for a brighter, poppier sound. Also, virtually the entire album is Stevie giving advice and reassuring folks! Talk to Me, Rock a Little (Go Ahead, Lily), Some Become Strangers, If I Were You, and Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You, I mean the titles alone are perfect examples. Then you have lyrics like “Don’t turn around, there’s nothing here to fear,” “If I Were You, I would take the love I’m giving to you,” and perhaps her most important advice of all “don’t let that golden hair get in your way, baby” LOL! There are just so many examples on this album. I think it’s interesting she’s trying to be so helpful to others when her life was pretty chaotic at that time, especially recording this album. Maybe she’s trying to reassure HERSELF that everything will turn out all right?

Also interesting that to reflect her lighter sound, she went with a stark white cover, yet she’s wearing a black dress and black veil... almost like she’s going to a funeral. I know it’s unlikely, but it’s almost like Stevie’s confusion about the direction of the album mirrored her choice of cover.

[mitzo]

That’s a great discovery. “Hurricane” is totally Stevie. Chimpanzee is not.

But it would be hard to write a song about someone who worked on saving endangered chimpanzees without using the word. Maybe primates or apes would have worked better?

[Macfan4life]

But it would be hard to write a song about someone who worked on saving endangered chimpanzees without using the word. Maybe primates or apes would have worked better?
I agree. You know what's funny. When I first bought Streel Angel and saw a song named Jane, I just automatically assumed it was about Jane Petty (one of the inspirations of Edge of 17). I could not really understand the chimpanzee line at all. At 24, I was not familiar with Jane's work until years later and learning she inspired Stevie. I am in the minority but I love Jane btw. Its brilliant and passionate IMHO.

[bombaysaffires]

wasn't it Rock A Little that got interrupted by her stint in rehab? Then she came out of rehab and listened back to stuff and said holy sh&t and redid bunches of vocals and stuff?? I remember her talking about one of her albums and how she listened to it and went, "Where's all the Waddy Wachtel guitar??" Then at some point she said the album had been delayed enough and she couldn't delay it any longer and just had to put it out as it was at that point. I thought it was this album, but I'm sleep deprived so maybe my dementia is worse this morning.

[On Ice]

Hi Bombay-

I think similar stories happened with Rock a Little and Street Angel although no rehab with Rock a Little as she said no, no, no. Street Angel though, she scrapped the initial takes, brought in Panunzio and attempted to "fix" the album. The Rock a Little one though may have threads of the folklore around the missing Mirror Mirror album of the day. I wish I knew more about why she rejected that song twice after fully finishing the track, to my ears, great results both times! I still like Street Angel although not her best in the same camp as Rock a Little, I think the vibe is better and her singing although not up to par inspiration (pardon the pun) wise, it's still pretty good and she just kills it on the brief tour to follow.

[David]

That’s a great discovery. “Hurricane” is totally Stevie. Chimpanzee is not.
Or “baboon.” Think of that song with “baboon” in it.

Think of that song if it’s a forgotten baboon at the laundromat! There is the very kernel of an idea there.

[michelej1]

I finally listened to RAL and examined the booklet for the first time in years, and it really reinforced my belief that Stevie was aiming for a brighter, poppier sound. Also, virtually the entire album is Stevie giving advice and reassuring folks! Talk to Me, Rock a Little (Go Ahead, Lily), Some Become Strangers, If I Were You, and Has Anyone Ever Written Anything For You, I mean the titles alone are perfect examples. Then you have lyrics like “Don’t turn around, there’s nothing here to fear,” “If I Were You, I would take the love I’m giving to you,” and perhaps her most important advice of all “don’t let that golden hair get in your way, baby” LOL! There are just so many examples on this album. I think it’s interesting she’s trying to be so helpful to others when her life was pretty chaotic at that time, especially recording this album. Maybe she’s trying to reassure HERSELF that everything will turn out all right?



My favorite advice, would come when Stevie was older and wiser: “Don’t buy that doll!”

[bombaysaffires]

Hi Bombay-

I think similar stories happened with Rock a Little and Street Angel although no rehab with Rock a Little as she said no, no, no. Street Angel though, she scrapped the initial takes, brought in Panunzio and attempted to "fix" the album. The Rock a Little one though may have threads of the folklore around the missing Mirror Mirror album of the day. I wish I knew more about why she rejected that song twice after fully finishing the track, to my ears, great results both times! I still like Street Angel although not her best in the same camp as Rock a Little, I think the vibe is better and her singing although not up to par inspiration (pardon the pun) wise, it's still pretty good and she just kills it on the brief tour to follow.

yes! you're right. I went and looked it up after I made that post because it bothered me that I couldn't recall the details, and she didn't do proper rehab til AFTER the RAL tour. That was the tour she said she tried to be careful in doing her coke :eek: because "you can't just go sober on a tour". But RAL did take forever to put out; I found an old interview in which she talked about mucking around with it forever. Jimmy quit (or she fired him, whomever you believe) and it's really a miso-mash of random producers and styles after that.

[JeremyGloff]

Responding to a post a couple pages back I just had to jump in and say that you are correct that Cyndi didn't write "True Colors" but she did indeed write "Time After Time" with Rob Hyman!!

I love that outtake of "Strangers" - the "oooh ooohs" at the beginning of the released version foreshadowed some serious "Street Angel" era overkill in that department!!!