Mike Campbell talks about FM in New interview

[jbrownsjr]

I didn’t see that tour, but the BTM tour, and it was the same kind of vibe for me. I was thrilled when she left and they brought on Bekka Bramlett.


They could have had a set full of hits without her that would have been moderately successful. I think people would have been pleasantly surprised.

I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.

[BigAl84]

Reality check: Out of the Cradle peaked at #128, Street Angel #45, Time didn’t crack the Top 200, and the two big alternative rock covers were of Stevie songs. Only one member of the band was still remotely viable.

It’s not snapping back, it’s putting things into perspective. It’s pointing out your overstatement with, you know, facts.

Yeah dude and the effing fact is Stevie greatly benefited from the dance reunion. The other members of the band did in other ways as well. That’s the point.

I still don’t understand your need to inject sales stats into a pretty basic statement that doesn’t even need record sales stats. It isn’t a freaking contest yet people insist on turning it into a stupid contest about singles charting.

Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindsey’s?

[BigAl84]

Oh and before you lecture me on facts, do I need to copy and paste the many, many quotes stating Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac because it was just getting too crazy, in the studio and on the road? It wasn’t exactly a “I quit to jump start my solo career” situation.

And boohoo about Christine having contractual obligations. Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine have all had to fulfill contracts along the way just as any recording artist does.

But like I said...Christine alllwaaayyss gets the golden ticket. Same standards that we hold Lindsey and Stevie conveniently don’t apply.

[SteveMacD]

I saw BTM in Cleveland (Richfield) and was shocked at how Christine took control. She and Rick took the lead most of the time. Stevie was gonzo, just spinning and going thru the motions. At this time I was really worried about Stevie Nicks. It saddened me how she was twirling at half speed and the look on her face was... "duhhhhh..." And I'm not mocking her, it was just sad.

Completely get it and completely agree. It was hard to watch.

I also agree about Christine and Rick. They really made the show for me. “Stop Messin’ Round” was the highlight of the night for me.

[SteveMacD]

Your entire response proves my point. Instead of saying yeah she benefited from the reunion...
I never said she didn’t benefit from the reunion, I said it didn’t save her ass. She was still somewhat viable. The reunion saved the other four’s asses. They were not viable. My point is that Stevie could have done it without the band, although I’ve also acknowledged that it wouldn’t have had as great an impact.

you went on some whim to say she needed the reunion the least because her rock bottom single charted the same as Lindsey’s?
I wasn’t talking about singles, I was talking about album sales. And, the point was Stevie’s rock bottom album peaked at #45 and people like you act like her career was in the tank. However, nobody makes the same kind of comment about Go Insane, which was Lindsey’s second highest charting album, which also peaked at #45. Nobody says Lindsey’s career was in the tank until TITN saved his ass. Just a little hypocrisy.

The numbers provide a little reality check. Lindsey wasn’t viable anymore and Fleetwood Mac without any of the Rumours singer-songwriters fronting the band on stage wasn’t viable, but Stevie was still moderately viable.

Again, all she needed was to quit smoking, lose weight, get a makeover, adopt the godmotherly rock survivor persona, and work with younger, relevant artists like Sheryl Crow, Dave Grohl, etc. Her path back to relevance realistically didn’t require Fleetwood Mac.

HOWEVER, I think Stevie would be too jealous to let the other four do a reunion like that without her. Skipping a new studio album is one thing, but a skipping massive reunion event like that which would have still been loaded with hits would possibly call into question her importance to the band, and she wasn’t about to let that happen.

[UnwindedDreams]

Steve... just curious and hoped to ask you:
Did Lindsey earn anything on his own throughout his life?

[UnwindedDreams]

IHOWEVER, I think Stevie would be too jealous to let the other four do a reunion like that without her.

I agree with this and you're talking about it in context of The Dance.

Now going into my opinion... I think this is why she remained/remains in FM. She couldve gone off and made millions, but she wouldn't want to feel like she's missing anything.
Like why would she return after SYW to do Unleashed and Live 2013 is what I ask

[SteveMacD]

Oh and before you lecture me on facts, do I need to copy and paste the many, many quotes stating Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac because it was just getting too crazy, in the studio and on the road? It wasn’t exactly a “I quit to jump start my solo career” situation.
And we can find quotes where he talked about resenting having to put his solo project on hold to make a Fleetwood Mac album and the quotes where says there was always an understanding that he would resume his solo work after TITN was finished. I don’t doubt it was a crazy session, but he was ready to be done before it even started.

And boohoo about Christine having contractual obligations.
She wasn’t contractually obligated to do that album, what are you ranting about? The label noticed Stevie’s success and pressured Christine to give it a try. Since Fleetwood Mac was going into indefinite hiatus, she decided to do it. She had fun, but it ultimately wasn’t her thing. Just as with Christine Perfect, she still didn’t like being the lone front woman and preferred being in a band. Again, unlike the other two, Christine didn’t aspire to be a solo artist. Why would she when she had most of Fleetwood Mac’s Top 40 hits?

[HomerMcvie]

Steve... just curious and hoped to ask you:
Did Lindsey earn anything on his own throughout his life?

I love you. :xoxo:

[SteveMacD]

Steve... just curious and hoped to ask you:
Did Lindsey earn anything on his own throughout his life?
No. None of them did.

Without Peter Bardens, there wouldn’t have been Mick Fleetwood. Bardens also brought Peter Green into the band.

Without John Mayall, there wouldn’t have been John McVie. Without Eric Clapton, the Bluesbreakers wouldn’t have become the hottest blues band in England, with EC single handedly revolutionizing the rock guitar sound and redefining what a guitar hero was. Without EC setting that bar so high before leaving, Peter Green replacing him and being nearly as critically acclaimed wouldn’t have set the stage for what became Fleetwood Mac.

Without Stan Webb, there would be no Christine Perfect.

Without Peter Green naming the band Fleetwood Mac, Mick and John wouldn’t have had a band that’s lasted nearly 55 years.

All of them owe somebody. None of them did it on their own.

What’s tricky for Lindsey is that he and Stevie started out together and their relationship was a synergetic one. She was the ambitious singer-songwriter who had amazing stage presence and an amazing sense of harmony. He was the introverted musical genius. He worked wonders on her songs, on their songs, and became an amazing acoustic guitarist in his own right, while she seemed to call shots he might have gone against his instincts and made him uncomfortable, but were ultimately in their best professional interests. They pushed each other in ways that made them what they became.

The fact is Lindsey joined an established band with a long standing on a major label with his girlfriend and musical partner with whom his career began just after high school and made an album a few years later.

That said, Lindsey’s talents as a guitarist and producer are all his own.

[soul_drifter333]

Oh and before you lecture me on facts, do I need to copy and paste the many, many quotes stating Lindsey left Fleetwood Mac because it was just getting too crazy, in the studio and on the road? It wasn’t exactly a “I quit to jump start my solo career” situation.

And boohoo about Christine having contractual obligations. Stevie, Lindsey, and Christine have all had to fulfill contracts along the way just as any recording artist does.

But like I said...Christine alllwaaayyss gets the golden ticket. Same standards that we hold Lindsey and Stevie conveniently don’t apply.

Oh, he does like to argue, debate and push your buttons...if you let him. I stop reading his posts a long time ago.

[jbrownsjr]

Completely get it and completely agree. It was hard to watch.

I also agree about Christine and Rick. They really made the show for me. “Stop Messin’ Round” was the highlight of the night for me.

Tear it Up was great, too! Also, Loved Another Woman and Isn't It Midnight.
I loved how they didn't open with The Chain. Stand On The Rock was solid.

I heard this tour kind of Peter'd out at the end. But, the crowd in Cleveland went completely nuts for them. One of my favorite shows in memory. Extreme high energy.

[SteveMacD]

Like why would she return after SYW to do Unleashed and Live 2013 is what I ask
I think she was excited going into into SYW, but felt the other three were dismissive of her. Yeah, there was the Dylan comment, but Mick said “well, we’ve just spent a year trying not to sound like Fleetwood Mac” and John rolled his eyes at the dream catcher, and that’s just what they showed us. It’s something that wouldn’t bother most people, but she’s a sheltered queen surrounded by yes people. I think she forgot what working in a band, especially that band, was like in the studio and expected them to treat her like the boss, not a bandmate.

As for 2009 and 2013, I think she probably saturated her solo gigs as much as she could and had Fleetwood Mac as another way to get a big bag of money on tour.

[UnwindedDreams]

What’s tricky for Lindsey is that he and Stevie started out together and their relationship was a synergetic one. She was the ambitious singer-songwriter who had amazing stage presence and an amazing sense of harmony. He was the introverted musical genius. He worked wonders on her songs, on their songs, and became an amazing acoustic guitarist in his own right, while she seemed to call shots he might have gone against his instincts and made him uncomfortable, but were ultimately in their best professional interests. They pushed each other in ways that made them what they became.

The fact is Lindsey joined an established band with a long standing on a major label with his girlfriend and musical partner with whom his career began just after high school and made an album a few years later.

That said, Lindsey’s talents as a guitarist and producer are all his own.

I commend you for this.
I think like Stevie needed Lindsey for her songs to come alive, Lindsey needed Mick to give his stuff a shot in the arm too... which is why i think there is an unbreakable bond Lindsey has with Mick too. I remember watching Mick sitting directly behind Lindsey at Musicares. Touching Lindsey on the back, probably talking to him about how great life is to have these performers pay tribute.

[David]

She only did three shows in 1996. One was a private show and the other two were festivals, which often pay more than concerts. Has my memory let me down? In 1996 she played AHI (private show), St. Petersburg, Columbus, and Boston.

[David]

Here’s my 1995–96 recollection. There was a lot happening in Stevieland. The internet was driving a Stevie revival in the fan base. The music mags were starting to talk about her in more positive terms — just a year or two before, rock writers were lampooning her as an embarrassing child-woman who never grew up (with comparisons to literary characters in Dickens), but their tone changed and you saw more articles about Stevie being an influence to a new generation. You see these articles begin to appear in 1994–95. Lifetime cable channel started negotiations with the Stevie camp to film a documentary and concert. She booked appearances in 1996 in public, and her fans went nuts, videotaping all of them and circulating them on the net. Fanzines about Stevie kicked up (one of the dozens of them was called “Mirror Mirror,” created by Mike Bise). Trading in Goldmine ramped up, too, for concert tapes and pictures and tourbooks and other Stevie items. The modern fan base for her was regrouping and adding more and more to its ranks, again thanks largely to the internet. In the immediate years following her unhappy 1994 tour, the air was electrified, and Stevieness was accumulating power and speed, like a tsunami made of meat and chiffon!

[SteveMacD]

Has my memory let me down? In 1996 she played AHI (private show), St. Petersburg, Columbus, and Boston.

I didn’t see Columbus listed on setlists.fm, but yes to the other three.

[David]

I didn’t see Columbus listed on setlists.fm, but yes to the other three.
Steve. Steve.

I’m your setlists.fm.

[SteveMacD]

Steve. Steve.

I’m your setlists.fm.

:lol:

True!

[johnnystorms]

I never said she didn’t benefit from the reunion, I said it didn’t save her ass. She was still somewhat viable. The reunion saved the other four’s asses. They were not viable. My point is that Stevie could have done it without the band, although I’ve also acknowledged that it wouldn’t have had as great an impact.


I wasn’t talking about singles, I was talking about album sales. And, the point was Stevie’s rock bottom album peaked at #45 and people like you act like her career was in the tank. However, nobody makes the same kind of comment about Go Insane, which was Lindsey’s second highest charting album, which also peaked at #45. Nobody says Lindsey’s career was in the tank until TITN saved his ass. Just a little hypocrisy.

The numbers provide a little reality check. Lindsey wasn’t viable anymore and Fleetwood Mac without any of the Rumours singer-songwriters fronting the band on stage wasn’t viable, but Stevie was still moderately viable.

Again, all she needed was to quit smoking, lose weight, get a makeover, adopt the godmotherly rock survivor persona, and work with younger, relevant artists like Sheryl Crow, Dave Grohl, etc. Her path back to relevance realistically didn’t require Fleetwood Mac.

HOWEVER, I think Stevie would be too jealous to let the other four do a reunion like that without her. Skipping a new studio album is one thing, but a skipping massive reunion event like that which would have still been loaded with hits would possibly call into question her importance to the band, and she wasn’t about to let that happen.

I hate how you get blasted on here. You make basic points and seem to offer fair minded opinions. It's sad that the site has devolved into Stevie bashing, including misogynistic remarks about her "wrinkled old knuckles" . As if any of the others knuckles aren't wrinkled. They're in their 70s! And yeah... i get your point. Her lowest charting record was better selling than OOtC *which i actually loved* which had a BIG push behind it.
As to the Timespace tour. I saw it in Houston and she was amazing

[BigAl84]

Actually, people like myself can look at the big picture and realize that ALL of their careers in 1996 were not exactly blasting into orbit.

Again, for the last time...my point was Stevie definitely benefited greatly from the Dance reunion. It didn't need the knee jerk "but lindsey...but but but" crap argument that is so stupidly tired at this point. It's a pretty basic concept. She was one of the biggest faces of the band between 75-90, of course she would get a huge boost from the reunion more so than John Mcvie...or even Christine.

There's no need to go down all these dumb tangents about album charts and then grammatical nitpicking because I said singles instead of albums.

And I also never said her career was in the tank, I believe you're the first person to state it that way in this thread. I just pointed out that the year before she was performing off of a semi truck in st pete beach and a year later she was in sold out arenas with Fleetwood Mac. She's never returned to playing flat bed trucks since!

Yet again, not a personal jab at Stevie...just a basic observation that had nothing to do with a comparison to Lindsey Buckingham or anyone else.

And using the term "people like me" just proves the bias that you bring to the table.

[UnwindedDreams]

As you say, Stevie's career wasn't in the tank. She was asked to give songs to major motion pictures in the 90s. I'm not sure how Somebody Stand By Me worked though because Sheryl wrote the song.

Did Stevie ask Lindsey to join Twisted? I know she felt she had to redo it in 2014:laugh:

[bombaysaffires]

As you say, Stevie's career wasn't in the tank. She was asked to give songs to major motion pictures in the 90s. I'm not sure how Somebody Stand By Me worked though because Sheryl wrote the song.

Did Stevie ask Lindsey to join Twisted? I know she felt she had to redo it in 2014:laugh:

she asked him to bail her out with it, because no one could figure out how to make her demo into a viable, releasable song. Same again a few years later with Soldier's Angel after Dave slaved over it and couldn't get it right. Tom (her favorite 'truth teller') flat out said he worked on any number of Stevie songs over the years of her solo career trying to figure out how to produce them, and then Lindsey came in and said, do x, y, z and Tom would say to himself, 'yes, of course!! he's right!!" His words, not mine. Stevie has continued to turn to Lindsey to bail her out forever, despite her public statements. He likely deserves producing credits somewhere on all of her solo work. Certainly many many of the songs on Bella Donna benefitted from his work on them and the polished demos he did with her on them which are recreated almost identically on Bella Donna (certainly not from her songwriting demos). Even stuff that didn't show up until WH or long after were old songs he'd worked on over the years (eg Sorcerer etc)

Her re-do of it sucks, btw.

[David]

Again, for the last time...my point was Stevie definitely benefited greatly from the Dance reunion.My opinion is that Stevie benefited the most creatively from the reunion among the three songwriters. I don’t think Timespace or Street Angel is quite as interesting as Lindsey’s work on his third album in 1992 or the songs he made a few years later with Mick, or as lovely as the songs Chris wrote for Behind the Mask or Time. Stevie was in a bit of a creative rut in the years preceding the Mac reunion. She admitted it a dozen times, too. Don Was and others had already told her to get back to writing when she booked her 1996 shows, and you would think those scaled-back shows would be great opportunities to sing something new, but aside from “Twisted,” she did not. She and Lindsey both could use an occasional push to strike out in new directions and forge something fresh. His recent online thing was just a bunch of his classics. He took the Stevie Nicks approach: keep shoveling the tried and true at everyone.

But the arguing over “viability” — who was more “viable” — is all about commerce, not creativity. So boring! Stevie has always had the commercial edge over her bandmates. She has not always had the creative edge over them. Sometimes I think that the trajectory of her career has obstructed her growth as an artist. I do like her and I wish it were otherwise. She perhaps isn’t that sort of animal.

Consider her songs on Buckingham Nicks and then compare them with her work on Rumours or Tusk (four and six years later, respectively). Enormous growth in vision, personal voice, scope, and style! Think of how beautifully elliptical and sly her writing is on “Dreams” or how vividly she paints passion on “Sara.” Nothing on Buckingham Nicks points to such achievements. Just lovely stuff that opened up all sorts of new possibilities for her as a songwriter and singer. Now try to imagine any other four- or six-year period in which she achieved similar growth. I can’t think of anything . . . I think fame spoiled her. In a way, her “viability” undermined her work. Is her market status really something to glorify decade after decade?

[SteveMacD]

she asked him to bail her out with it, because no one could figure out how to make her demo into a viable, releasable song. Same again a few years later with Soldier's Angel after Dave slaved over it and couldn't get it right.
God, enough of the Lindsey messiah crap. “Lindsey saved..,” “Lindsey bailed out..,” etc.

This is exactly why I talk about sales and viability. Because when you factor those in, and that’s all that really matters to Fleetwood Mac, it becomes clear that Lindsey was never in a position to save or bail out anyone. I mean, we’re debating this on a thread about Mike Campbell.

In 1996, Fleetwood Mac was being offered insane amounts of money to do a reunion. “Twisted” was a test run between the three previously warring factions. That’s all. And, Stevie didn’t especially like how it turned out. She released the original demo in 1998 (and the finished demo of Sweet Girl), and recut the song in 2014.

As for “Soldier’s Angel” and all of the solo songs Lindsey had previously worked on at some point, how many of those were hit singles? How many of those were career game changers for Stevie vs. just album tracks? I’m sure her solo career would have tanked without the amazing things Lindsey did with “Think About It.

[jbrownsjr]

And, Stevie didn’t especially like how it turned out. t.

She ain't the only one. :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

But the arguing over “viability” — who was more “viable” — is all about commerce, not creativity. So boring!
I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but you can’t have one without the other with a band at the level of Fleetwood Mac.

Put it a different way: people around here express the sentiment that Fleetwood Mac was so desperate by 1995 that they needed Lindsey to bail them out. How so? As you mentioned, Christine wrote lovely songs for Behind the Mask and Time, and even more so on the box set songs. So, the core three, the only ones who matter in the Time equation, still had their creativity in tact. So, they didn’t necessarily need Lindsey to bail them out creatively.

So, how else would he have bailed them out? Commercially? That where the viability and sales come into play, because he wasn’t in a position to bail anyone out on his name. Charity begins at home.

[anusha]

Honestly, I hadn’t been here for a few weeks after my last post and this thread and possibly this fandom is mirroring the toxic cesspool that the band is. It’s ridiculous to try and weigh the respective involvement of everyone. Stevie is the most marketable, commercial, identifiable part of the band. I don’t think anyone really questions that. But there is value in the five of them together, and the attempts to make that happen after 1987 were/are an attempt to recapture the frenzy of Rumours. They obviously were able to do a successful tour in 2018 without Lindsey and many tours without Christine, but it’s the five together that is the apex of what I enjoy about them.

It’s the arguing over who matters and who contributed and the petty sniping I hate the most. I don’t regret cutting off my involvement in the band endeavors after Lindsey was fired. I did enjoy trying to figure out the timeline of how it happened and to piece it together from the clues we have. But ultimately it doesn’t matter. At this point, I hope they don’t reunite. I was able to believe that they were in it for something other than money in 1997 until 2018. Now it’s clear that’s really what binds them together, and the act they sold us was just to make more money. .

For me, there’s no point in debating who is most valuable or marketable. They have all made a lot of money — much of it selling us a love or camaraderie that was pretty fake as far as I can tell — and they can all make more. Maybe that’s a damper on the thread, admittedly, but what is the point in warring over who matters most in a band that has decided that money matters most of all?

[BigAl84]

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but you can’t have one without the other with a band at the level of Fleetwood Mac.

Put it a different way: people around here express the sentiment that Fleetwood Mac was so desperate by 1995 that they needed Lindsey to bail them out. How so? As you mentioned, Christine wrote lovely songs for Behind the Mask and Time, and even more so on the box set songs. So, the core three, the only ones who matter in the Time equation, still had their creativity in tact. So, they didn’t necessarily need Lindsey to bail them out creatively.

So, how else would he have bailed them out? Commercially? That where the viability and sales come into play, because he wasn’t in a position to bail anyone out on his name. Charity begins at home.


Steeeeeeeeve!!! Duh... Tango had to of sold way more than behind the mask. I thought that was the gold standard of artistic success. Change of heart eh?

[BigAl84]

Steve I get the feeling that your wet dream Fleetwood Mac tour would involve Stevie nicks and literally anyone else to play the rest. It could be Stevie Nicks & The Pips but with the Fleetwood Mac name attached to it. You would argue for days it’s a relevant Fleetwood Mac project. LOLOLOlOL

[BigAl84]

My opinion is that Stevie benefited the most creatively from the reunion among the three songwriters. I don’t think Timespace or Street Angel is quite as interesting as Lindsey’s work on his third album in 1992 or the songs he made a few years later with Mick, or as lovely as the songs Chris wrote for Behind the Mask or Time. Stevie was in a bit of a creative rut in the years preceding the Mac reunion. She admitted it a dozen times, too. Don Was and others had already told her to get back to writing when she booked her 1996 shows, and you would think those scaled-back shows would be great opportunities to sing something new, but aside from “Twisted,” she did not. She and Lindsey both could use an occasional push to strike out in new directions and forge something fresh. His recent online thing was just a bunch of his classics. He took the Stevie Nicks approach: keep shoveling the tried and true at everyone.

But the arguing over “viability” — who was more “viable” — is all about commerce, not creativity. So boring! Stevie has always had the commercial edge over her bandmates. She has not always had the creative edge over them. Sometimes I think that the trajectory of her career has obstructed her growth as an artist. I do like her and I wish it were otherwise. She perhaps isn’t that sort of animal.

Consider her songs on Buckingham Nicks and then compare them with her work on Rumours or Tusk (four and six years later, respectively). Enormous growth in vision, personal voice, scope, and style! Think of how beautifully elliptical and sly her writing is on “Dreams” or how vividly she paints passion on “Sara.” Nothing on Buckingham Nicks points to such achievements. Just lovely stuff that opened up all sorts of new possibilities for her as a songwriter and singer. Now try to imagine any other four- or six-year period in which she achieved similar growth. I can’t think of anything . . . I think fame spoiled her. In a way, her “viability” undermined her work. Is her market status really something to glorify decade after decade?

I think that was so well said, David. I wouldn’t disagree with any of it. I just think it’s absolute hogwash to flat out state that she needed the reunion less than any of them. Technically none of them really “needed” anything. Maybe some reconciliation and a boatload of cash were the fortunate byproduct of a big reunion and helped nudge it along.

But the premise that Nicks was doing just fine and well on her way to a comeback and The Dance had nothing to do with it...I don’t buy it. Like you said, clearly there was a rut and it wasn’t a dirty secret.

[BigAl84]

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but you can’t have one without the other with a band at the level of Fleetwood Mac.

Put it a different way: people around here express the sentiment that Fleetwood Mac was so desperate by 1995 that they needed Lindsey to bail them out. How so? As you mentioned, Christine wrote lovely songs for Behind the Mask and Time, and even more so on the box set songs. So, the core three, the only ones who matter in the Time equation, still had their creativity in tact. So, they didn’t necessarily need Lindsey to bail them out creatively.

So, how else would he have bailed them out? Commercially? That where the viability and sales come into play, because he wasn’t in a position to bail anyone out on his name. Charity begins at home.

I don’t get it. Yesterday you were comparing how a Stevie single charted just as poorly as Lindsey’s Go Insane to show they were both in a similar state of decline...

But now you’re siding with the artistic merit of Behind The Mask and Time over the completely obvious fact that Tango was a blockbuster because it involved the original 5.

When you want to attack Lindsey you dive right into sales. When you’re defending Stevie or Chris it’s all about art suddenly.

[SteveMacD]

Steve I get the feeling that your wet dream Fleetwood Mac tour would involve Stevie nicks and literally anyone else to play the rest. It could be Stevie Nicks & The Pips but with the Fleetwood Mac name attached to it. You would argue for days it’s a relevant Fleetwood Mac project. LOLOLOlOL

Ummm...You have seen my signature, right?

My fandom is with the core three.

Right now, I’d like to see the three with Neil Finn and Rick Vito and I’d prefer to see them in theaters.

However, looking at it from their perspective, Fleetwood Mac was their lives. Their band survived all kinds of tragedies and traumas, and was playing arenas over 50 years later. There has to be some level of pride/ego trip in that for them.

[BigAl84]

Ummm...You have seen my signature, right?

My fandom is with the core three.

Right now, I’d like to see the three with Neil Finn and Rick Vito and I’d prefer to see them in theaters.

However, looking at it from their perspective, Fleetwood Mac was their lives. Their band survived all kinds of tragedies and traumas, and was playing arenas over 50 years later. There has to be some level of pride/ego trip in that for them.

Well sh*t...put the cone on my head, no I honestly never noticed. LMAO. #oops

That kind of puts everything in perspective now doesn’t it.

[UnwindedDreams]

Ummm...You have seen my signature, right?

My fandom is with the core three.

Right now, I’d like to see the three with Neil Finn and Rick Vito and I’d prefer to see them in theaters.

I once saw Lindsey in the signature!

I'd rather just see Rick with the three. Amphitheater would be fine for me.

Just thinking, I'm not sure Neil would do a whole tour with Rick. They did a few songs on stage for the Green celebration.

But from his social media, it seems like Rick was a Trump guy and I know Neil wants none of that around. Neil got off social media because of MAGA hate.

[SteveMacD]

I don’t get it. Yesterday you were comparing how a Stevie single charted just as poorly as Lindsey’s Go Insane to show they were both in a similar state of decline...
Again, for the second time, I was talking about ALBUMS not singles.

And that wasn’t my point. I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy that Lindsey made an album that peaked at #45 and nobody acts like he needed Fleetwood Mac to bail him out, but Stevie hits #45 and her career is in the gutter? Stevie didn’t need The Dance any more than Lindsey needed TITN.

But now you’re siding with the artistic merit of Behind The Mask and Time over the completely obvious fact that Tango was a blockbuster because it involved the original 5.
I have never argued against the classic lineup being a blockbuster band. But, they were all essential contributors and beneficiaries of that lineup. You are absolutely right when you say that TITN was a blockbuster because it involved all five.

And, no, I wasn’t siding with the artistic merit of Behind The Mask and Time over anything else, I was siding with the artistic merit of the core three, especially the songs Christine contributed during those years. I’d put “As Long As You Follow,” “Save Me,” “Behind the Mask,” “Love Shines, “I Do,” “Nights In Estoril,” and “All Over Again” up against anything she ever did during Lindsey’s tenure. They had the songs, the playing chops, and, with Time, the right producer. While those albums are both inconsistent when taken as a whole, the core three were just as creatively on solid ground as ever (weirdly also true of the Welch-era albums).

So, when people say that Lindsey bailed them (Mick, John, and Christine) out, I’m genuinely curious as to how, because those three weren’t drowning creatively and Lindsey’s name and talents as a singer, songwriter, and producer weren’t enough to make him a viable solo artist. Even with heavy promotion, music videos, rave reviews, and a tour, OOTC didn’t do much better than Time (which, reminder, was DOA when it was released). This is why I think the messiah Buckingham thing is so ridiculous.

When you want to attack Lindsey you dive right into sales. When you’re defending Stevie or Chris it’s all about art suddenly.
LOL!!! When have I ever defended Stevie’s art beyond being a brilliant harmony vocalist? The nicest thing I say about her music, especially during this time, is that her songs were hit or mostly miss after 1984.

[elle]

Honestly, I hadn’t been here for a few weeks after my last post and this thread and possibly this fandom is mirroring the toxic cesspool that the band is.

you know, similarly to what you are saying, it's funny to come back here even every few days as i usually do, to kinda de-stress from everyday life and work, and you see this one thread - which has completely nothing to do with the topic dragged on in it - revived on and on. :laugh:

the thing is, you usually know exactly where everyone stands, who in the band is each person's favorite - whether it is the band as a whole, Christine, Lindsey or Stevie. the only person who abruptly changed their tune around the time when Lindsey firing became public is Steve, and that's i think why so many people were at first so surprised and tried to rationally argue his points. his arguments used to be interesting and leveled. :nod:

now most of Steve's arguments became the same as what any regular chiffonhead would argue, except he is still trying to back up his speculations as fully legit with his old reputation of having some cred from [previously?] working in/adjacent to the industry and first and foremost being FM's rhythm section fan. :shrug:

:cool:

[SteveMacD]

I once saw Lindsey in the signature!
No disrespect to Lindsey. My signature pic for like ten years was of the three from the Time booklet. I decided to switch this time after listening to a comp playlist.

I used my last pic after they announced LBCM (in anger that they weren’t calling it Fleetwood Mac).

[SteveMacD]

the thing is, you usually know exactly where everyone stands, who in the band is each person's favorite - whether it is the band as a whole, Christine, Lindsey or Stevie. the only person who abruptly changed their tune around the time when Lindsey firing became public is Steve, and that's i think why so many people were at first so surprised and tried to rationally argue his points.
I had a view that changed based on a number of facts. Stevie headlined 20K seat arenas while Lindsey and Christine combined not selling 3/4 of 4000 seat amphitheaters was the eye opener. Factor in Lindsey’s “close your eyes and take the money” comment, Mick’s “Stevie and I want to play obscure songs” interview, and The Eagles successfully going on without Glen (which Fleetwood Mac had already done without Lindsey), it wasn’t hard to see what was going to happen.

his arguments used to be interesting and leveled. :nod:

now most of Steve's arguments became the same as what any regular chiffonhead would argue,
Except, I’ve always argued against the ones overstating the importance of any one member, be it Peter, Stevie, or Lindsey. But the Messiah Buckingham sect make it seem like the band couldn’t function without him. My posts show why that’s a massive overstatement.

except he is still trying to back up his speculations as fully legit with his old reputation of having some cred from [previously?] working in/adjacent to the industry
Huh? I was a roadie/studio assistant for a legendary indie rock band from 2010-16. I’ve been a die-hard Fleetwood Mac fan since 1987 and part of the Fleetwood Mac online community since October, 1995. I ran a Dave Mason website, a Fleetwood Mac website, and archived a Lindsey website, which I think was the first Fleetwood Mac related site on the web.

That said, it was seeing Lindsey in 2006 that made me take a break from Fleetwood Mac. When I got to my car, I asked if Robert Pollard was playing anywhere and vowed I’d only go see Fleetwood Mac again if Christine came back. The prerecords and psychobabble finally broke me.

and first and foremost being FM's rhythm section fan.
It’s always been about the core three for me.

[BigAl84]

LOL there it is again...interjecting the “messiah buckingham” crap that nobody is trying to make this thread about.

Because somebody says Stevie probably benefited nearly the most from the dance, it’s met with responses implying it’s only being said by the “buckingham messiah sect”. Nobody is dismissing you because of your loyalty to “the core three”

[BigAl84]

Lol no offense, It’s still hard for me to believe you STILL buy into that whole “Stevie wants to play more obscure songs” thing. They removed the majority of them mid-tour. As somebody who has been a fan for 20 years, the golden rule that everyone knows is to take everything mick and Stevie say with a grain of salt and then consider it a near fabrication.

Most of us can compile a list a mile long of crap those two have promised that have never happened or back peddled 90% of the way on.

Remember the Stevie Vegas shows where she told everyone it was the most elaborate stage she’s ever had. Opening night it’s a black stage and two screens.

[SteveMacD]

Lol no offense, It’s still hard for me to believe you STILL buy into that whole “Stevie wants to play more obscure songs” thing. They removed the majority of them mid-tour.

Look at her 24KG setlist. Now, apply that to a Fleetwood Mac setlist.

Mick mentioned it in August, 2017 and they actually did it. Whether or not it lasted is irrelevant, they actually did what they said they were going to do.

I saw Louisville (3), Indianapolis, and Columbus (17...Yes, she made the joke), so I got to see them play the obscure stuff and it was amazing. My only gripe was sequencing.

[BigAl84]

Look at her 24KG setlist. Now, apply that to a Fleetwood Mac setlist.

Mick mentioned it in August, 2017 and they actually did it. Whether or not it lasted is irrelevant, they actually did what they said they were going to do.

I saw Louisville (3), Indianapolis, and Columbus (17...Yes, she made the joke), so I got to see them play the obscure stuff and it was amazing. My only gripe was sequencing.

Hahaha oh so Stevie actually mixed up her set for the first time in over a decade and now she’s the czar of unique set lists. Okaaayyyy. Where were you between 2001-2009.

So what now, You want to start tallying how many rare songs in a recent Fleetwood Mac tour vs stevie’s and then (of course) blame it on buckingham?

You’ve been schlepping the same argument for the last three years.

[BigAl84]

Oh I forgot...how’s that new Fleetwood Mac album with mike Campbell? You know the one that buckingham was holding them back from making all these years.

Oh that’s right, Stevie won’t even return mike’s call to thank him for the tracks, radio silence(his words, not mine) It never happened. But Mick said so!! It’s a neeeewwww band after all!!!

LMAO

[SteveMacD]

Hahaha oh so Stevie actually mixed up her set for the first time in over a decade and now she’s the czar of unique set lists.
No. Stevie had a successful arena tour and became the czar of...well, pretty much everything Fleetwood Mac.

Okaaayyyy. Where were you between 2001-2009.
I saw the SYW tour three times, but skipped the other two cash grabs. I don’t consider any song from the 75-87 albums to be obscure. Ignored, but not obscure. The only two songs that I feel I missed were the EP songs.

[SteveMacD]

Oh I forgot...how’s that new Fleetwood Mac album with mike Campbell?
I was always 50/50 on that. I’ve always said it was more likely than if Lindsey was in the band, and there is that Neil Finn song with everyone but Mick and John, but I also fully believed in their capability to bring in two amazing talents and screw it up.

I think Mick brought those guys in to grease the wheel. It apparently didn’t work.

What pisses me off is how Stevie went on Ellen with Sheryl Crow and talked about how “we make albums because it’s fun!”

[elle]

Regarding the whole debate about the eb and flow of Stevie's solo career...one thing is for sure.

As said in her own behind the music episode, her solo career was tanked by 1996.

The only reason she bounced back was due to The Dance tour, end of story.

The Enchanted Box set and tour NEVER would of happened without that tour happening first.

It would be interesting to think about where her career would be now if the 1997 reunion hadn't happened.

possibly similar to Pat Benatar and others of her generation - still viable but playing theaters. most performers of her era are now relegated to theaters, unless they also have a big brand name band to carry them through rougher times.

that said, unlike many bands and musicians that are purely musical, Stevie also has a persona that she's selling. it's no accident that part of her publishing deal was also selling her "likeness."

she is also really savvy, jumping on every opportunity to try to further her commercial appeal and further her legendary status - from trying to tie herself to the most commercial pop singers at the time (Swift, Perry, huge FM stans like Lorde and Styles), to making sure to build up her own name every time FM were brought back in the spotlight l(like FM Glee episode, where she visited the set after they put FM back in the conversation). she tries to seize every opportunity and some pan out, others may not - but she's trying. others may be relying on trier PR people and managers, since music is a part where their strength lies, and just waiting and hoping it may all go their way. she's working it, making sure she's a star.

and then AHS came along. AHS made Stevie huge because Mike Murphy presented her to completely new audiences as this legendary rock icon who is worth worshipping, and she has a pretty well-rounded persona consisting of witchy legends, chiffon goth garb, sex symbol past, heavy-living-drug-use-survivor, strong-woman-sticking-it-to-a-man schtick that some AHS-watching young girls bought into.


Stevie may not be nearly at the level of legends like Cher or Dolly Parton, each with their own larger-than-life persona on top of their musical output, acting careers and commercial success, but the state of her persona-driven career is probably more appropriate to compare to people like them than to pure musicians such as other FM members.

[UnwindedDreams]

I’ve always said it was more likely than if Lindsey was in the band, and there is that Neil Finn song with everyone but Mick and John.

What pisses me off is how Stevie went on Ellen with Sheryl Crow and talked about how “we make albums because it’s fun!”

Stevie's vocals on Find Your Way Back Home were actually done before Coronavirus lockdown and not with Neil present. I'm surprised Stevie didn't ask Neil to work on Show Them the Way with her. I think he would've done that song much better than Greg Kurstin.

When Stevie said that on Ellen, I think she had IYD and Songs from the Vault in her head. With IYD, she could call Mick in to play on a few songs and have her FM connection there. And I know Lindsey was only brought in because Waddy couldn't play Soldier's Angel the way Stevie's demo sounded.

I don't see Stevie going in a studio with FM again. Amd that sucks.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie's vocals on Find Your Way Back Home were actually done before Coronavirus lockdown and not with Neil present. I'm surprised Stevie didn't ask Neil to work on Show Them the Way with her. I think he would've done that song much better than Greg Kurstin.

When Stevie said that on Ellen, I think she had IYD and Songs from the Vault in her head. With IYD, she could call Mick in to play on a few songs and have her FM connection there. And I know Lindsey was only brought in because Waddy couldn't play Soldier's Angel the way Stevie's demo sounded.

I don't see Stevie going in a studio with FM again. Amd that sucks.

My point with the Neil song is that she was willing to even consider it, especially with Christine and Mike also being involved. I can’t imagine her getting any closer to doing something with Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey was still in the band.

And that does suck. Neil and Mike are probably two of the most accomplished songwriters Fleetwood Mac has ever had and they’re not going to do an album. But, she also refused one final album with the classic lineup.

[UnwindedDreams]

My point with the Neil song is that she was willing to even consider it, especially with Christine and Mike also being involved. I can’t imagine her getting any closer to doing something with Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey was still in the band.
Even getting her to do the 3 Extended Play songs was tough.
I think it's important to include that Neil did tell Stevie, rather Stevie's people, that it was going to benefit a charity for homeless in Auckland. But she did contribute to that over the LCMJ project. She also did new songs with Sheryl and Leann Rimes rather than doing the LCMJ project

[elle]

that said, unlike many bands and musicians that are purely musical, Stevie also has a persona that she's selling. it's no accident that part of her publishing deal was also selling her "likeness."

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Stevie may not be nearly at the level of legends like Cher or Dolly Parton, each with their own larger-than-life persona on top of their musical output, acting careers and commercial success, but the state of her persona-driven career is probably more appropriate to compare to people like them than to pure musicians such as other FM members.

no response to this? i thought there will be bunch of bashing and complaints. something usual for here and ridiculous like how Cher or Dolly greatness is nowhere near Stevie's. ;) :blob2:

[SteveMacD]

no response to this? i thought there will be bunch of bashing and complaints. something usual for here and ridiculous like how Cher or Dolly greatness is nowhere near Stevie's. ;) :blob2:

Cher had a more complete career than Stevie. She’s a persona way beyond music and had a great film career. Stevie was the better songwriter and created a narrative about herself in a way that Cher couldn’t have done, but that’s only so much.

And Dolly? Neither of them can hold a candle to Dolly. Dolly might be one of America’s greatest talents ever. I watch Porter Wagoner on Fridays on RFD-TV just for the vintage Dolly. Stevie wishes she was Dolly. However, Dolly wasn’t in Fleetwood Mac.

[HomerMcvie]

no response to this? i thought there will be bunch of bashing and complaints. something usual for here and ridiculous like how Cher or Dolly greatness is nowhere near Stevie's. ;) :blob2:

Nope. I think $he has PLENTY of haters here these days. :woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[michelej1]

Steve, how long has that been your signature?

[SteveMacD]

Steve, how long has that been your signature?

The quote from “Love Shines” has always been in my signature.

The pic is new. Prior to that, it was a pic from the 1993 press conference without Stevie.

[jbrownsjr]

The quote from “Love Shines” has always been in my signature.

The pic is new. Prior to that, it was a pic from the 1993 press conference without Stevie.

I love that sig. But, you knew that already.

[SteveMacD]

Also, this…

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/3f/c3/7d3fc361d60a452fb42d674f68a930e5.jpg