You and I

[BLY]

This song in my opinion is one of Lindsey’s masterpieces. I always loved You and I pt 1 when I heard it for the first time as the b side to The Big Love single back in 1987. You and I pt 2 from the Tango album I liked but not a favorite. I always preferred pt 1. When I got the Tango box set and heard the entire song together how it was meant to be heard (IMO)I was blown away. I see this as one of his best pieces of music during the late eighties.

[moon]

I felt exactly the same!!!:blob1:
I liked Part II until I discovered Part I a few days after I bought Tango In The Night (of course I still like Part II haha). When I finally heard both parts together, I was simply really happy and impressed. That bridge of keyboards and guitar between both parts is simply amazing, gives an amazing sense to the union.
And You & I Part I is simply better than You & I Part II. Is just a masterpiece, as you say!!

[FuzzyPlum]

I think I must be in a significant minority. I personally can't see how anyone can say You and I Part I is better than You and I Part II. Its nice enough but really isn't strong enough to be a Fleetwood Mac album track. Certainly if it were reversed there'd have been many more people shouting for part II to have been included on the album instead. When I was a kid I loved part II but as I've gotten older I appreciate its nice but kind of lightweight. It makes a pretty good, upbeat album closer though.

[Macfan4life]

I think I must be in a significant minority. I personally can't see how anyone can say You and I Part I is better than You and I Part II. Its nice enough but really isn't strong enough to be a Fleetwood Mac album track. Certainly if it were reversed there'd have been many more people shouting for part II to have been included on the album instead. When I was a kid I loved part II but as I've gotten older I appreciate its nice but kind of lightweight. It makes a pretty good, upbeat album closer though.
Yeah I agree it definitely is light weight but a nice album closer. Its a pure Lindsey solo song.
IMHO Like 50% of Tango, its meh.

[moon]

It's maybe because of its "B-Side" quality and its own musical quality that the songs has some kind of...magic? Every B-Side is really special, but this song has its own history.
It's like Oh Well. When you know one of the two parts, you Need to hear the other one!

[HomerMcvie]

Yeah I agree it definitely is light weight but a nice album closer. Its a pure Lindsey solo song.
IMHO Like 50% of Tango, its meh.

Agreed. Tango is a good album, but it's not Rumours or Tusk. It's too computer driven, and really has very little in common with any previous albums. Some good songs, but not all of them qualify as such.

It's been years since I've listened to it in it's entirety.

[button-lip]

Agreed. Tango is a good album, but it's not Rumours or Tusk. It's too computer driven, and really has very little in common with any previous albums. Some good songs, but not all of them qualify as such.

It's been years since I've listened to it in it's entirety.

My biggest (and probably only) problem is When I see you Again. I'm even willing to give Welcome to the Room a pass. Well, 11 out of 12 is not bad.
I know it's not Rumours or Tusk, but that's what the 80's did to you. :laugh::laugh: :nod:
Love it more than Mirage but not as much as Tusk.

[HomerMcvie]

My biggest (and probably only) problem is When I see you Again. I'm even willing to give Welcome to the Room a pass. Well, 11 out of 12 is not bad.
I know it's not Rumours or Tusk, but that's what the 80's did to you. :laugh::laugh: :nod:
Love it more than Mirage but not as much as Tusk.

Okay, we ALL agree that WISYA BLOWS GOATS. No, not that one.

What the 80's did to me? I grew up then(well, grew up is speculative). Can I go back?

I LOVE me some f*cking Mirage. It's the prequel to BuckVie. Fun, poppy stuff.

Tango is overrated. That is all. :xoxo:

[jmn3]

Okay, we ALL agree that WISYA BLOWS GOATS. No, not that one.

Whatsamattababbbayyywhatsamattababbbbbyyyy!?!?

The doors in the hallway is ridiculous, and then of course Stevie’s most prolific lyric ever - “she stares at the stairs...there are many things to stare at these days.”

Nothing saves this song and I’m always shocked to hear some people love it. I find Stevie’s voice in this period to simply be horrible. That baby nasally crap she does is brutal.

[cbBen]

Her counter vocal part on "Little Lies" is fantastic. I have no issue with her vocal on "Seven Wonders" either.

[FuzzyPlum]

As others have noted, Lindsey's contributions to this song, i.e. the guitar parts and his vocal towards the end are really good. How he doesn't get a writers credit ....?!?!? :shrug:

[mitzo]

The album is spoiled by Family Man, You and I, and Caroline. The rest is all great stuff including WISYA which is beautiful.

[button-lip]

Whatsamattababbbayyywhatsamattababbbbbyyyy!?!?

The doors in the hallway is ridiculous, and then of course Stevie’s most prolific lyric ever - “she stares at the stairs...there are many things to stare at these days.”

Nothing saves this song and I’m always shocked to hear some people love it. I find Stevie’s voice in this period to simply be horrible. That baby nasally crap she does is brutal.

Well, you know, some people like it….. nasally???? :laugh::laugh:

[BLY]

This song in my opinion is one of Lindsey’s masterpieces. I always loved You and I pt 1 when I heard it for the first time as the b side to The Big Love single back in 1987. You and I pt 2 from the Tango album I liked but not a favorite. I always preferred pt 1. When I got the Tango box set and heard the entire song together how it was meant to be heard (IMO)I was blown away. I see this as one of his best pieces of music during the late eighties.


I just love how posts on The Ledge always gets derailed.😎 I do appreciate the comments about the one track I was posting about. You, you, you and I.😎

[Macfan4life]

Whatsamattababbbayyywhatsamattababbbbbyyyy!?!?

The doors in the hallway is ridiculous, and then of course Stevie’s most prolific lyric ever - “she stares at the stairs...there are many things to stare at these days.”

Nothing saves this song and I’m always shocked to hear some people love it. I find Stevie’s voice in this period to simply be horrible. That baby nasally crap she does is brutal.
I agree its not very good. Check out Rolling Stone's review of Tango in 1987. They mock the song and those exact lyrics. Like ok Stevie we get it Whatsamatta baby, baby, baby whatsamatta baby baby B A B Y

I would LOVE to ask Lindsey about this song. We know Seven Wonders was recorded prior to rehab and Welcome to the Room after rehab. Where does this song fit? Her voice sounds prior to rehab. There is speculation that her voice is just from the demo she mailed the band while on the RAL tour. Its possible it needed something to at least make it a better song and Lindsey added his ending.
The flip side is Stevie states in the interview on the RAL tour that she mailed the band a duet kind of song. So Stevie may have had the intention of some interaction with Lindsey in the song.
If I could have 3 wishes from a genie, one would be to spend an afternoon with Lindsey asking him all these detailed questions LOL
I was FLOORED a few years ago to find out its not Stevie on Family Man. It was just my natural assumption but if you listen close you can tell its Lindsey and his voice machine that he used throughout the album just like the grunts on Big Love.

[secondhandchain]

Her counter vocal part on "Little Lies" is fantastic. I have no issue with her vocal on "Seven Wonders" either.

Her Seven Wonders vocal is cringeworthy. HORRIBLE.

Also You and I part 2 is GENIUS.

[Macfan4life]

Okay, we ALL agree that WISYA BLOWS GOATS. No, not that one.

What the 80's did to me? I grew up then(well, grew up is speculative). Can I go back?

I LOVE me some f*cking Mirage. It's the prequel to BuckVie. Fun, poppy stuff.

Tango is overrated. That is all. :xoxo:
OMG You cant even compare Mirage and Tango

Mirage while pop has intricate playing and real instruments throughout. The music is really good played by real people
Tango is mostly an empty shell of computer programming and slick tricky stuff. Not very many tracks where you say....WOW the music is so good. There are a few signs of life like Isnt It Midnight and Tango In The Night and Little Lies but not much more.
Some of the songs are so damn cheezy on Tango like Big Love. The lyrics to Big Love are so cheezy. I remember taking my friend from Argentina to the On With The Show concert. While very impressed with Lindsey's playing during Big Love, he was shocked that the lyrics could be so cheezy. On Mirage, Mick is banging the drums, John is pounding away, Christine is playing keyboards and piano and Stevie's voice is probably at its prime. Tango is a hot mess of a full Lindsey solo album with guest appearances by Christine and Stevie. John gets one classic bass track (Isnt it Midnight). John and Christine's lack of playing on Tango just was too much for me.

[jbrownsjr]

I love both You and I (Part I and II). I remember being so surprised by the BuckVie collaborations. I liked some of the demos floating out there. There's Christine singing it solo, then Lindsey singing it. (Part II)

BuckVie collaborations are my favorite. I think that's where a lot of the magic comes from. Plus, the rhythm section. Christine and Lindsey have such a weird connection.

[FuzzyPlum]

OMG You cant even compare Mirage and Tango

Mirage while pop has intricate playing and real instruments throughout. The music is really good played by real people
Tango is mostly an empty shell of computer programming and slick tricky stuff. Not very many tracks where you say....WOW the music is so good. There are a few signs of life like Isnt It Midnight and Tango In The Night and Little Lies but not much more.
Some of the songs are so damn cheezy on Tango like Big Love. The lyrics to Big Love are so cheezy. I remember taking my friend from Argentina to the On With The Show concert. While very impressed with Lindsey's playing during Big Love, he was shocked that the lyrics could be so cheezy. On Mirage, Mick is banging the drums, John is pounding away, Christine is playing keyboards and piano and Stevie's voice is probably at its prime. Tango is a hot mess of a full Lindsey solo album with guest appearances by Christine and Stevie. John gets one classic bass track (Isnt it Midnight). John and Christine's lack of playing on Tango just was too much for me.


I'd say it's each to their own.
I could confidently, comfortably and happily play Tango in the Night to anyone unfamiliar with the band. In fact, I'm sure I have done, plenty of times.
Unfortunately I'd be quite embarrassed by some of the Mirage material though. The sound of Oh Diane, Empire State, Love in Store, Book of Love...
I personally love it for what it is, but it sounds very, very old.
Perhaps not the lyrics, but the production sensibilities are very cheesy in my opinion and moved the band firmly away from rock towards pop music.

[Macfan4life]

I'd say it's each to their own.
I could confidently, comfortably and happily play Tango in the Night to anyone unfamiliar with the band. In fact, I'm sure I have done, plenty of times.
Unfortunately I'd be quite embarrassed by some of the Mirage material though. The sound of Oh Diane, Empire State, Love in Store, Book of Love...
I personally love it for what it is, but it sounds very, very old.
Perhaps not the lyrics, but the production sensibilities are very cheesy in my opinion and moved the band firmly away from rock towards pop music.
Of course everyone has different likes and dislikes. There are so many Stevie fans who say RAL is their favorite album. I just cant get my head around that but to each their own.
When you have a fantastic bass player, brilliant drummer and keyboardist its silly or insulting to use programmed bass or other computer stuff. What is funny is Lindsey took it to the next level and even used computer trickery on voices.
Mirage is a soft rock pop album with some brilliant songs (Lindsey will have quirky songs on every album)
Tango is a piece of synth 80s pop with a simpler sound than Mirage. To compare songs like Only Over You with Lindsey's guitar, Christine's singing, keyboard playing and those harmonies to anything on Tango is a bridge to far for me. Forget eras. Any song lyrically, musically, and vocally is vastly better on Mirage.
Mirage still had Fleetwood Mac sound. Tango had very little of that which confuses me when Mac fans put it near the top of their favorite album. Behind the Mask sounds much more like Fleetwood Mac because for the first time since Mirage the rhythm section got to hum again. Not to mention the best harmonies of any Mac record: Love in Store, Straight Back, Gypsy, etc. Tango had a few Lindsey/McVie harmonies but so much trickery its hard to tell.

[Macfan4life]

Come on now
THIS is the best version by far ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO43bFX1FmA

[jbrownsjr]

Come on now
THIS is the best version by far ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO43bFX1FmA

He should wake up with his mouth shut tight.

[FuzzyPlum]

Come on now
THIS is the best version by far ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO43bFX1FmA


W...T...F...? A night with a horse?
I can't unhear this.

[jmn3]

Come on now
THIS is the best version by far ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO43bFX1FmA

Just another gift for us from the year 2020... :shocked:

[Macfan4life]

W...T...F...? A night with a horse?
I can't unhear this.
Cocaine is one helluva drug

Sounds like Mick having fun just after the deal went down in Lindsey's driveway

:eek:

BTW, I think he means a Knight with a horse
Far far away of course
Dancing

[Macfan4life]

Now Christine takes the lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35rYCDrkccE

[FuzzyPlum]

Now Christine takes the lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35rYCDrkccE

and this one...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1qLgSi-frc

Where are these being pulled from?
Is this your Youtube channel?

These are so cool. They should have found space for more of this sort of stuff on the deluxe album.

[Macfan4life]

At least we see how the band was working while Stevie was on her RAL tour.
Not really a fan of this song but each one taking a stab at it is cool

[BLY]

I wish Lindsey would of somehow incorporated Christine’s lead vocals on the final track(Parts 1&2) full song.

[jbrownsjr]

Now Christine takes the lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35rYCDrkccE

I've always loved this version. I do love the final version better.

[ViscountViktor]

The album is spoiled by Family Man, You and I, and Caroline. The rest is all great stuff including WISYA which is beautiful.

This is... a take....

When I See You Again has to be one of the worst songs to ever grace a Fleetwood Mac album.

To address the OP, I love You and I Parts 1 & II. They have a very magical quality to them.

[ViscountViktor]

OMG You cant even compare Mirage and Tango

Mirage while pop has intricate playing and real instruments throughout. The music is really good played by real people
Tango is mostly an empty shell of computer programming and slick tricky stuff. Not very many tracks where you say....WOW the music is so good. There are a few signs of life like Isnt It Midnight and Tango In The Night and Little Lies but not much more.
Some of the songs are so damn cheezy on Tango like Big Love. The lyrics to Big Love are so cheezy. I remember taking my friend from Argentina to the On With The Show concert. While very impressed with Lindsey's playing during Big Love, he was shocked that the lyrics could be so cheezy. On Mirage, Mick is banging the drums, John is pounding away, Christine is playing keyboards and piano and Stevie's voice is probably at its prime. Tango is a hot mess of a full Lindsey solo album with guest appearances by Christine and Stevie. John gets one classic bass track (Isnt it Midnight). John and Christine's lack of playing on Tango just was too much for me.

Stevie is on 4 tracks of Mirage, same as Tango. She may have been in her prime but we hardly heard her.

[mitzo]

This is... a take....

When I See You Again has to be one of the worst songs to ever grace a Fleetwood Mac album.

To address the OP, I love You and I Parts 1 & II. They have a very magical quality to them.

I like songs that are different with some mystery and unpedestrian. WISYA is odd and rather haunting.

The You and I's? What on earth is even a trace of magical there?

[tabruns]

Stevie is on 4 tracks of Mirage, same as Tango. She may have been in her prime but we hardly heard her.

Hmm, to my ears it sounds like Nicks was on more of the songs on MIRAGE than on the TANGO IN THE NIGHT songs. I remember listening to the TANGO album straight through when I first got it, and I thought "wow you really can't hear Nicks on this record at all". I didn't have that reaction to MIRAGE.

[cbBen]

From what I understand, on each album she's on her own three songs, plus one other ("Love In Store," "Little Lies").

[ViscountViktor]

From what I understand, on each album she's on her own three songs, plus one other ("Love In Store," "Little Lies").

Always Christine songs of course, never Lindsey

[tabruns]

Always Christine songs of course, never Lindsey

I think this was only true of MIRAGE and TANGO. She's on his songs on MAC, RUMOURS, TUSK, and SAY YOU WILL.

[sasja]

YOU and I, both parts, are fantastic songs. Love them both!:woohoo::woohoo:

[jbrownsjr]

YOU and I, both parts, are fantastic songs. Love them both!:woohoo::woohoo:

I love listening to them together on the Deluxe Tango. They flow really well.

[aleuzzi]

Both You and I parts are good—really good. But I’ve heard Christine’s lead vocals on a part II demo and think THAT is the version that should have been chosen.

[jbrownsjr]

Both You and I parts are good—really good. But I’ve heard Christine’s lead vocals on a part II demo and think THAT is the version that should have been chosen.

Do you like the Hold Me demo better? Just curious.

For me: I loved hearing her on lead, but was happier with more of the BuckVie sounds. I think "Think About Me", "You And I II" and "Hold Me" have both of them singing leads on outtakes.

At one time, I liked the Christine leads better. I think BuckVie's Album changed me.

[HomerMcvie]

I think BuckVie's Album changed me.

You now answer to Joan?:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

You now answer to Joan?:lol:

Joane... Joan with an 'e', thank you!

[HomerMcvie]

Joane... Joan with an 'e', thank you!
:p
Joan(i)e loves Chachi, I mean Christine.

[aleuzzi]

Do you like the Hold Me demo better? Just curious.

For me: I loved hearing her on lead, but was happier with more of the BuckVie sounds. I think "Think About Me", "You And I II" and "Hold Me" have both of them singing leads on outtakes.

At one time, I liked the Christine leads better. I think BuckVie's Album changed me.

The “Hold Me” demo is a delight but the album version is a pop masterpiece.

I prefer the 1978 version of “Think About Me” where it’s just Christine singing with some toned down backing vocals from Stevie. Such a great version!

[HomerMcvie]

The “Hold Me” demo is a delight but the album version is a pop masterpiece.



It really is a masterpiece. Just a slight notch behind Gypsy in stunning production. Lindsey really brought his A game to those two songs.

I enjoy the demo, but there's no comparison to the finished product.

And of course the irony is that both of those songs were always hard to pull off, live. How do you live up to the record?

[Macfan4life]

It really is a masterpiece. Just a slight notch behind Gypsy in stunning production. Lindsey really brought his A game to those two songs.

I enjoy the demo, but there's no comparison to the finished product.

And of course the irony is that both of those songs were always hard to pull off, live. How do you live up to the record?
I agree 100%
Hold Me is a pop masterpiece. That piano riff at the beginning, the catchy lyrics, amazing percussion, and Lindsey's guitar solo. I once heard Chris say when she wrote the song, it just came very suddenly.
Gypsy is also a masterpiece. Probably the best bridge of any Mac or Stevie song. She nails it.
Both could have been #1 songs. But the timing was not there. I forget the songs but during each song's peak there was a traffic jam with some song just stuck at #1 for a long time which locked the top ten without much movement.

Lets not forget. Mirage was #1 for 5 weeks. I wish there was a video for Love in Store so it could have climbed out of the top 20. But like Mick said, once the short Mirage tour was over, the magic of Mirage was over. Everyone had their own record deals. They could have pumped more life into Mirage but there just was not time

[FuzzyPlum]

Both could have been #1 songs. But the timing was not there. I forget the songs but during each song's peak there was a traffic jam with some song just stuck at #1 for a long time which locked the top ten without much movement.




Getting into the top 10 back in those days was a massive achievement. If you look back at any top 10 from that period its full of instantly recognisable stars and banger songs- far different to today. That's not to say hitting the top 10 is easy these days, but there are relatively few contemporary hits that will have a lasting legacy.

[BLY]

I agree 100%


Lets not forget. Mirage was #1 for 5 weeks. I wish there was a video for Love in Store so it could have climbed out of the top 20. But like Mick said, once the short Mirage tour was over, the magic of Mirage was over. Everyone had their own record deals. They could have pumped more life into Mirage but there just was not time

The Mirage tour was my favorite and yes Mick was spot on. As soon as the tour ended the album sales/charting started to dwindle. I dig the Wild Heart tour in 1983 which was probably my all time favorite Nicks tour but would instead have loved more videos/singles and touring to support Mirage.

[ViscountViktor]

I think this was only true of MIRAGE and TANGO. She's on his songs on MAC, RUMOURS, TUSK, and SAY YOU WILL.

If you have any evidence of Stevie being on Lindsey's songs on Tusk I'd love to hear it.

[tabruns]

If you have any evidence of Stevie being on Lindsey's songs on Tusk I'd love to hear it.

I can hear her on "The Ledge," "I Know I'm Not Wrong," "Walk A Thin Line" and "Tusk".

"That's All For Everyone" has so many layered vocals its hard to tell.

I don't hear her on "Save Me A Place" (shame), "What Makes You Think You're The One" (considering what the song is about, no surprise), "Not That Funny", or "That's Enough For Me."

[FuzzyPlum]

I can hear her on "The Ledge," "I Know I'm Not Wrong," "Walk A Thin Line" and "Tusk".

"That's All For Everyone" has so many layered vocals its hard to tell.

I don't hear her on "Save Me A Place" (shame), "What Makes You Think You're The One" (considering what the song is about, no surprise), "Not That Funny", or "That's Enough For Me."

I'd always thought she was on a couple of those songs. Having listened through carefully, the only ones I now think she might be on are The Ledge and Walk a Thin Line. Its so hard to tell though. Lindsey's backing vocals can be so feminine they are misleading. There's a chance they are all Lindsey alone.
Anything and everything is probably buried in the Tusk song.

I thought I heard Chris' voice a bit on Save Me a Place....but again, It's probably just Lindsey.

[WalkAThinLine.]

I'm curious if when the decision was made to release "You and I Part II" on the album and relegate Part I to the B-side of "Big Love". To my understanding, the two songs were developed separately, but I wonder when the band combined the two tracks and whether or not the full version was seriously considered for release on Tango in the Night. Christine McVie mentioned in an interview with Musician magazine that they wanted an upbeat song to close the album, and "You and I Part II" certainly fits the bill. Do you think that Part I could have fit with the sequencing of the album?

[Macfan4life]

I'm curious if when the decision was made to release "You and I Part II" on the album and relegate Part I to the B-side of "Big Love". To my understanding, the two songs were developed separately, but I wonder when the band combined the two tracks and whether or not the full version was seriously considered for release on Tango in the Night. Christine McVie mentioned in an interview with Musician magazine that they wanted an upbeat song to close the album, and "You and I Part II" certainly fits the bill. Do you think that Part I could have fit with the sequencing of the album?
IMHO part 2 is a better song. However both are pure Lindsey solo songs especially part 1. Part 2 I think we get a tiny bit of Chris on backing vocals (although its hard to tell).
Lindsey had one hell of a solo album going on in 1987. I just hate with Stevie, John and Mick's issues that prevented more Mac like material being developed. I think Stevie should have brought some of her classic material like Running Through the Garden. Lindsey's songs are flawless but I miss the Mac sound. But he had slim pickings so to speak. Closing the album upbeat was a good decision.
To answer your question, part 1 would fit. I would strike Caroline for it. But switching a Lindsey solo song for another solo song makes zero impact.

[FuzzyPlum]

IMHO part 2 is a better song. However both are pure Lindsey solo songs especially part 1. Part 2 I think we get a tiny bit of Chris on backing vocals (although its hard to tell).
Lindsey had one hell of a solo album going on in 1987. I just hate with Stevie, John and Mick's issues that prevented more Mac like material being developed. I think Stevie should have brought some of her classic material like Running Through the Garden. Lindsey's songs are flawless but I miss the Mac sound. But he had slim pickings so to speak. Closing the album upbeat was a good decision.
To answer your question, part 1 would fit. I would strike Caroline for it. But switching a Lindsey solo song for another solo song makes zero impact.

So….its interesting you describe You and I (part 1 and 2) as pure Lindsey solo songs. And yet, they are listed as BuckVie co-writes.
Does anyone have info on who did what? Are they McVie lyrics?

[michelej1]

Christine just added her lyrics to an instrumental that Lindsey already had because they thought “when I see you again” was too depressing a way to close the album and they needed an ending.

[Macfan4life]

So….its interesting you describe You and I (part 1 and 2) as pure Lindsey solo songs. And yet, they are listed as BuckVie co-writes.
Does anyone have info on who did what? Are they McVie lyrics?
IMHO they sound like Big Love, Family Man, and Caroline and Lindsey's pure pop craftmanship. Any of them sound like they could have been on his solo album. They sound like he's playing everything with sometimes a mild layover of a Christine backing vocal or Mick laying in some fancy percussion (maybe). At least on Mirage his songs like Can't Go Back, Book of Love, and Oh Diane are also super poppy too but we know the band is playing with him.

[jbrownsjr]

So….its interesting you describe You and I (part 1 and 2) as pure Lindsey solo songs. And yet, they are listed as BuckVie co-writes.
Does anyone have info on who did what? Are they McVie lyrics?

She added lyrics and had some key riffs that they added. She described it as, "we both had unfinished things laying around and pieced them together". (Which led me to believe some of the music for both versions were hers as well.)

The other story is true, too. They didn't want to end on WISYA.

[jbrownsjr]

She added lyrics and had some key riffs that they added. She described it as, "we both had unfinished things laying around and pieced them together". (Which led me to believe some of the music for both versions were hers as well.)

The other story is true, too. They didn't want to end on WISYA.

To which Stevie screamed, "Whatttttamatta baby...babbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"

Then she threw a blue lamp across the rented motor home.

[Macfan4life]

To which Stevie screamed, "Whatttttamatta baby...babbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy"

Then she threw a blue lamp across the rented motor home.
The lamp hit Lindsey and the glass cut his skin.

The first cut is the deepest

Second verse!

[WalkAThinLine.]

She added lyrics and had some key riffs that they added. She described it as, "we both had unfinished things laying around and pieced them together". (Which led me to believe some of the music for both versions were hers as well.)


I'm actually not familiar with that quote. Do you remember what newspaper or magazine published that interview?

There are several videos on YouTube (posted earlier in this thread) of both Christine and Mick attempting vocals on Part II. I would assume that some of Christine's lyrical ideas were used on the final mix (ie. phantoms crawling out of the night). Buckingham's contribution on Part II was likely the guitar riff, although a member of the Tango in the Night recording personnel (it could have been Greg Droman) mentioned in Ryan Reed's book Fleetwood Mac FAQ that one song that likely made it onto the album was built around a chord progression submitted by an adolescent in Northern California via a poor quality tape recording. He mentioned that there was an ordeal of Buckingham spending an inordinate amount of time attempting to track down the name of the individual responsible for the guitar progression so that they could receive a writing credit, but they concluded that the progression was generic enough that the effort was no longer worth it. Assuming that the story is true (which is a big assumption), "You and I Part II" would be the most likely candidate. I don't have the book on me right now, but I can provide more context on the purported series of events once it's in my possession again.

[michelej1]

I'm actually not familiar with that quote. Do you remember what newspaper or magazine published that interview?



This is what she said in a Laura Gross interview in the late eighties.

They were sort of weird collaborations. They weren’t sitting down in a room writing songs together. In the case of Mystified, that was a piano instrumental that I had, and Lindsey took it home and put some words to it and some drum patterns that we all really liked. You and I was reversed. Lindsey had a completed beautiful guitar track with no vocals on it, so I sort of helped with him on the melody on that.

It's amusing to think of Lindsey putting lyrics on someone's song, since he's not known for lyrics. I, personally, think he's had some pretty great ones, especially in his most recent solo albums. But in the early eighties, I'm not looking to him to add lyrics to my music. Not that there's anything wrong with the Mystified lyrics. They work very well. I'm just saying, I am what I am. The Popeye problem.

[WalkAThinLine.]

This is what she said in a Laura Gross interview in the late eighties.



It's amusing to think of Lindsey putting lyrics on someone's song, since he's not known for lyrics. I, personally, think he's had some pretty great ones, especially in his most recent solo albums. But in the early eighties, I'm not looking to him to add lyrics to my music. Not that there's anything wrong with the Mystified lyrics. They work very well. I'm just saying, I am what I am. The Popeye problem.

Thank you for this. I've only listened to parts of their 1976 interview with Laura Gross, so this is helpful. This largely reaffirms what we already inferred from the demos that have circulated on the internet, although I was not previously privy to Buckingham's specific contributions to "Mystified" (the lyrics and drum programming). Have the two of them ever discussed the delegation of responsibilities for "Isn't it Midnight"?

[jbrownsjr]

I'm actually not familiar with that quote. Do you remember what newspaper or magazine published that interview?

There are several videos on YouTube (posted earlier in this thread) of both Christine and Mick attempting vocals on Part II. I would assume that some of Christine's lyrical ideas were used on the final mix (ie. phantoms crawling out of the night). Buckingham's contribution on Part II was likely the guitar riff, although a member of the Tango in the Night recording personnel (it could have been Greg Droman) mentioned in Ryan Reed's book Fleetwood Mac FAQ that one song that likely made it onto the album was built around a chord progression submitted by an adolescent in Northern California via a poor quality tape recording. He mentioned that there was an ordeal of Buckingham spending an inordinate amount of time attempting to track down the name of the individual responsible for the guitar progression so that they could receive a writing credit, but they concluded that the progression was generic enough that the effort was no longer worth it. Assuming that the story is true (which is a big assumption), "You and I Part II" would be the most likely candidate. I don't have the book on me right now, but I can provide more context on the purported series of events once it's in my possession again.

What michele posted. Plus, I've heard her talk about she and Buck during their tour. I really love what they came up with. I can hear Mick's contributions in there, as well.

There was a point where the questions just kept coming about them two collaborating.

[Penguin Emeritus]

Thank you for this. I've only listened to parts of their 1976 interview with Laura Gross, so this is helpful. This largely reaffirms what we already inferred from the demos that have circulated on the internet, although I was not previously privy to Buckingham's specific contributions to "Mystified" (the lyrics and drum programming). Have the two of them ever discussed the delegation of responsibilities for "Isn't it Midnight"?

Laura gross did some great interviews w all of them in the 80's, some around 82 and a couple right around when lindsey left...i have tapes of when she had john and stevie together, and chris and lindsey together. she did a video interview in 88 w mick/billy/stevie, and also one w john/chris/rick. also i believe she had LB on his own in 84. i loved her interviews..always wished they were up on youtube...

--Lis

[Villavic]

Part I is not one of my favorites, but I wouldn't have minded if they had replaced Caroline with this song.

[jbrownsjr]

Part I is not one of my favorites, but I wouldn't have minded if they had replaced Caroline with this song.

They didn't have to replace anything. For me, I would have liked to see the songs strung together like the deluxe.

They could have faded the screaming... "babaaaaaayyyyyy" into the intro guitar of Part 1followed by .... haaaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaaaa...

I love that melody of the opening synth parts ... that's gotta come from Christine, it sounds so much like her melody "vibe". It gives me a tiny Little Lies vibe.

[WalkAThinLine.]

They didn't have to replace anything.


I was looking at the YouTube comments for the full version of "You and I" and a few users suggested the idea of opening Tango in the Night with Part I so that Part II would serve as the true bookend. For a late 1980s album, 13 tracks would not be completely outlandish, so I would be in favor of this idea. Behind the Mask, released just a few years later, also had 13 tracks.


I love that melody of the opening synth parts ... that's gotta come from Christine, it sounds so much like her melody "vibe". It gives me a tiny Little Lies vibe.

It could be Christine, but I'm inclined to think it was actually Lindsey with a variable speed oscillator (VSO). He has used that device extensively in the studio to manipulate the sound of the guitar at least dating back to "Not That Funny". I was rather surprised when Richard Dashut revealed during the 2019 BBC documentary that the intro to "Everywhere" was created by some sped up guitars played by Lindsey. The intro to Part I actually reminds me of the opening arpeggio on "Soul Drifter", which was also achieved with a VSO.

[jbrownsjr]

I was looking at the YouTube comments for the full version of "You and I" and a few users suggested the idea of opening Tango in the Night with Part I so that Part II would serve as the true bookend. For a late 1980s album, 13 tracks would not be completely outlandish, so I would be in favor of this idea. Behind the Mask, released just a few years later, also had 13 tracks.


It could be Christine, but I'm inclined to think it was actually Lindsey with a variable speed oscillator (VSO). He has used that device extensively in the studio to manipulate the sound of the guitar at least dating back to "Not That Funny". I was rather surprised when Richard Dashut revealed during the 2019 BBC documentary that the intro to "Everywhere" was created by some sped up guitars played by Lindsey. The intro to Part I actually reminds me of the opening arpeggio on "Soul Drifter", which was also achieved with a VSO.

I love the idea of opening and closing with You and I!

I've always known about the Everywhere guitar. You can tell that's a sample (of his own making) . Even back then.

[Villavic]

I love the idea of opening and closing with You and I!

Yes, it would have been nice, but I think Big Love was the coolest opener on the album. That song really rocks.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, it would have been nice, but I think Big Love was the coolest opener on the album. That song really rocks.

Yes, but with You And I as an intro, I think it would have been pretty kewl. :D

[Villavic]

Yes, but with You And I as an intro, I think it would have been pretty kewl. :D

I was thinking last night, it would have been a decision similar to open Tusk with Over & Over. It is more kind of a soft rhythm, that clearly announced Hey, this is not Rumours 2. And it was right and wise to choose that song.

But Big Love as track 1 was like Monday Morning or Second Hand News to their respective albums. Opening with You and I Part I, sounds good but I don't think it would give the idea of what the rest of the album is about. Just a thought, actually I don't know if it's close to what Lindsey thought.

[jbrownsjr]

I was thinking last night, it would have been a decision similar to open Tusk with Over & Over. It is more kind of a soft rhythm, that clearly announced Hey, this is not Rumours 2. And it was right and wise to choose that song.

But Big Love as track 1 was like Monday Morning or Second Hand News to their respective albums. Opening with You and I Part I, sounds good but I don't think it would give the idea of what the rest of the album is about. Just a thought, actually I don't know if it's close to what Lindsey thought.

Same with Sleeping Round The Corner. Much like a SHN.

[bombaysaffires]

Listen, we all know that Stevie is the master sequencer in this band... she does the BEST sequencing of songs and has the MOST brilliant ideas... so they should have consulted with her about how to sequence Tango...what's that you say?? Drugs?? Rehab???:eek: Maybe she wasn't available to help with that on Tango and it's not as great as it could have been....:sorry::laugh:

[Villavic]

Listen, we all know that Stevie is the master sequencer in this band... she does the BEST sequencing of songs and has the MOST brilliant ideas... so they should have consulted with her about how to sequence Tango...what's that you say?? Drugs?? Rehab???:eek: Maybe she wasn't available to help with that on Tango and it's not as great as it could have been....:sorry::laugh:

So it makes sense what I once read, that Stevie was secretly hired as a consultant to sequence the Time album, taking advantage of the fact that she was already rehabilitated from Klonopin. ;)

[BLY]

Yes, it would have been nice, but I think Big Love was the coolest opener on the album. That song really rocks.



I never thought about the idea of starting and ending with You and I. I think the end of You and I pt 1 and the beginning of Big Love would have worked well.

[jbrownsjr]

I never thought about the idea of starting and ending with You and I. I think the end of You and I pt 1 and the beginning of Big Love would have worked well.

I do, too. A little sort of overture/prelude.

[DownOnRodeo]

. Have the two of them ever discussed the delegation of responsibilities for "Isn't it Midnight"?

It's Chris's song, but Lindsey changed the chorus music from major to minor, thereby putting the whole song in the minor key, giving it that darker sound, helped by the distorted guitar throughout. I forget where she mentions it. I imagine he also sped up the tempo a little bit.

[WalkAThinLine.]

Looking at the Fleetwood Mac FAQ book, it was indeed Droman who mentioned a story of Buckingham perseverating on properly attributing credit to a guitar riff that a kid from Northern California submitted to him via cassette. I'll include a snippet of what Droman said about the song; the name of which escaped him. However, he did say that he was relatively sure that the song made the album.

"There was a little panic because Lindsey lost the cassette and couldn't find the guy's name. There was some concern we were going to build the song around what this guy had sent, not be able to find him to give him credit, and maybe get sued...It wasn't a unique chord progression or anything, just a fairly common thing we were using part of."

Seeing that "Caroline", "Big Love", "Family Man", and parts of the title track were developed for Buckingham's solo album before the Tango in the Night sessions, that only leaves "You and I Part II" as the only other option. If we were to take into account songs that did not appear on the album, "Special Kind of Love" would be the only other real candidate.

[aleuzzi]

The “Where We Belong” demo is better than 1/2 of Tango, in my opinion. That’s such a great two minutes of fun. The tune sounds organic and you can hear both of them singing in the same room, possibly from the same mic. Even in unfinished form, it’s a delight.

I always thought “Caroline” was a good song but too Buckingham-centric (the theme, the lack of anyone else in the band playing on it) to be on an FM record. The same could be said for “Big Love,” but at least that has a a broader application. He isn’t writing specifically about Carolyn Harris—and the tune is tuneful. It’s still disappointing that no other member of the band appears to be on it.

[jbrownsjr]

The “Where We Belong” demo is better than 1/2 of Tango, in my opinion. That’s such a great two minutes of fun. The tune sounds organic and you can hear both of them singing in the same room, possibly from the same mic. Even in unfinished form, it’s a delight.

I always thought “Caroline” was a good song but too Buckingham-centric (the theme, the lack of anyone else in the band playing on it) to be on an FM record. The same could be said for “Big Love,” but at least that has a a broader application. He isn’t writing specifically about Carolyn Harris—and the tune is tuneful. It’s still disappointing that no other member of the band appears to be on it.

Where we belong, is a little gem!

[Villavic]

If you ask me what song I would replace with When We Belong, I'd choose When I See You Again, but the fair thing would have been to replace it with a better Stevie song.

So if it had to be a Lindsey song, I'd choose Caroline. However WWB would fit also in Out Of The Craddle. Though it's a Lindsey/Chris song, they would have had to come to an agreement.

[jbrownsjr]

If you ask me what song I would replace with When We Belong, I'd choose When I See You Again, but the fair thing would have been to replace it with a better Stevie song.

So if it had to be a Lindsey song, I'd choose Caroline. However WWB would fit also in Out Of The Craddle. Though it's a Lindsey/Chris song, they would have had to come to an agreement.

The more McVie(s) on his solo album, the better. Trust me on this! :lol:

[WalkAThinLine.]

The “Where We Belong” demo is better than 1/2 of Tango, in my opinion. That’s such a great two minutes of fun. The tune sounds organic and you can hear both of them singing in the same room, possibly from the same mic. Even in unfinished form, it’s a delight.

I always thought “Caroline” was a good song but too Buckingham-centric (the theme, the lack of anyone else in the band playing on it) to be on an FM record. The same could be said for “Big Love,” but at least that has a broader application. He isn’t writing specifically about Carolyn Harris—and the tune is tuneful. It’s still disappointing that no other member of the band appears to be on it.

There's a level of cohesion on "Where We Belong" that's lacking on the rest of the album. Like you mentioned it actually sounds as if the two of them are tracking their parts in the same room. While "Caroline" is more or less a solo tune, I'm fairly certain that Mick and John are on "Big Love" in some capacity. While most of the song is centered around programmed drums, the snare drum backbeats on two and four don't have the consistency of a drum machine. The bass part sounds far too dynamic to be from Lindsey, but I could be incorrect. Lindsey said that the demo of "Big Love", which he developed on his own, was left mostly untouched from the transition to Fleetwood Mac. This undated demo is a far departure from the polish found on Tango in the Night, so I'm curious if he developed the song further during the sessions for his solo album before transferring it over to Fleetwood Mac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdADIZPlfw

[Villavic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdADIZPlfw

That Big Love demo has a Go Insane album sound touch (an album I didn't like that much). Lindsey did a good job updating it to the version we got in Tango.

[Street_Dreamer]

The keyboard "riff" from Where We Belong would have fit in perfectly in Christine's 1984 album.

There's a level of cohesion on "Where We Belong" that's lacking on the rest of the album. Like you mentioned it actually sounds as if the two of them are tracking their parts in the same room. While "Caroline" is more or less a solo tune, I'm fairly certain that Mick and John are on "Big Love" in some capacity. While most of the song is centered around programmed drums, the snare drum backbeats on two and four don't have the consistency of a drum machine. The bass part sounds far too dynamic to be from Lindsey, but I could be incorrect. Lindsey said that the demo of "Big Love", which he developed on his own, was left mostly untouched from the transition to Fleetwood Mac. This undated demo is a far departure from the polish found on Tango in the Night, so I'm curious if he developed the song further during the sessions for his solo album before transferring it over to Fleetwood Mac.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdADIZPlfw

[Villavic]

I was listening the whole Tango deluxe album yesterday. I bought just de digital (iTunes) edition when it was released. It's the best sound quality of all the deluxe and expanded releases I got, IMHO (among the classic formats, not comparing with Blu Ray audio or other enhanced available formats).

But about the bonus tracks, some are good but no big deal. And the remixes are meh. I think the best bonus track is the You and I+II 6:28 full version.

From all those re releases, the Rumours bonus tracks collection from the 2004+2013 editions is the best. A great opportunity to know all the pieces that made up The Chain, and beautiful early versions.

[jbrownsjr]

I was listening the whole Tango deluxe album yesterday. I bought just de digital (iTunes) edition when it was released. It's the best sound quality of all the deluxe and expanded releases I got, IMHO (among the classic formats, not comparing with Blu Ray audio or other enhanced available formats).

But about the bonus tracks, some are good but no big deal. And the remixes are meh. I think the best bonus track is the You and I+II 6:28 full version.

From all those re releases, the Rumours bonus tracks collection from the 2004+2013 editions is the best. A great opportunity to know all the pieces that made up The Chain, and beautiful early versions.

I think Buck/Vie collab on 2 fits so well with 1, and putting both pieces together is (and was) a beautiful thing to do. I played the whole deluxe set and this track surprised me. I love how the music made me stop and listened intently. Especially, the transition from one to another. It smacks you a bit. :wavey:

And it feels like they "belong" together.