Mick's pettiness -- a new low??

[bombaysaffires]

Just thought I'd share this tidbit.... Recently I was with a group of friends in Maui. One day friends who have gone there several times were showing us around Lahaina. They suggested getting lunch at Mick's restaurant as it was one place they still had never tried. Despite some misgivings about putting any cash in MF's coffers, curiosity got the better of me and I agreed to go. [When I have time at some point I will post pics and some commentary about that.]

The restaurant itself is on the second floor of the building (main dining room) with the rooftop deck above that. Only the rooftop is open for lunch, which is when we went. On the first floor, there are two shops-- a jewelry store and a store titled both 'Morrisson Hotel Gallery' and 'Fleetwood's General Store'. It has Mick's green vintage car (I forget the model), some restaurant-branded tee shirts and things, some recent FM tour books, and then a whole lotta framed prints of rock stars by famous rock photographers (Neil Preston, Henry Diltz, etc... no Herbie).

LOTS of photos of Stevie (alone, with FM, with Tom) from both FM shoots and solo shoots. Staff told our group that Stevie and Chris have both been in the store and that Stevie saw a photo of herself she'd never seen before and had to get one of the prints. (Wonder if she had to pay or put it on Mick's tab? I mean, that's the least one could do for one's meal ticket, but then again, we're talking Mick). There's a nice photo of Stevie and Christine during the Little Lies video shoot for sale also.

I asked the staff if there were any photos for sale of Lindsey. They said, "Um, yeah we have some. We aren't allowed to put them out, but we can show them to you over here." And they took us to a cabinet and pulled out a handful of them laid out in one of the drawers. Then they told us they were given clear direction that they were NOT to put ANY pics of Lindsey out on display, explaining, "They're kind of on the outs". One of us said, "Yeah, I guess when there's lawsuits involved it gets tricky." One of the staff then said, very quickly, in a way that sounded like they got talking points in case someone brought it up, "Well they settled the lawsuit very quickly. They wanted to acknowledge his contributions to the songs." :shocked:

Lindsey's only presence was in a couple of vintage 70s group shots. There was however a nice B&W pic of Stevie and Tom for sale and a huge color photo of Tom and Mike onstage prominently displayed inside the restaurant (not for sale in the gallery). Zero photos we saw of the current lineup anywhere.

[HomerMcvie]

I asked the staff if there were any photos for sale of Lindsey. They said, "Um, yeah we have some. We aren't allowed to put them out, but we can show them to you over here." And they took us to a cabinet and pulled out a handful of them laid out in one of the drawers. Then they told us they were given clear direction that they were NOT to put ANY pics of Lindsey out on display, explaining, "They're kind of on the outs". One of us said, "Yeah, I guess when there's lawsuits involved it gets tricky." One of the staff then said, very quickly, in a way that sounded like they got talking points in case someone brought it up, "Well they settled the lawsuit very quickly. They wanted to acknowledge his contributions to the songs." :shocked:

Lindsey's only presence was in a couple of vintage 70s group shots. There was however a nice B&W pic of Stevie and Tom for sale and a huge color photo of Tom and Mike onstage prominently displayed inside the restaurant (not for sale in the gallery). Zero photos we saw of the current lineup anywhere.

Mick consistently lowers the bar for the requirements of being the world's sh*ttiest person. What a scumbag!

[jmn3]

Mick consistently lowers the bar for the requirements of being the world's sh*ttiest person. What a scumbag!

He is truly repugnant.

[Macfan4life]

The Van Halen brothers airbrushed Michael Anthony out of all photos on the Van Halen website. I believe his credits were also removed.
While Mick is petty and cheap, the Van Halen brothers still take a grudge a bit further than Mick but are probably on par with Stevie.
Michael Anthony got fired and banished because he took the side of Sammy Hagar .
Lindsey got fired because he danced behind Stevie at an awards show.
Two of the dumbest firings ever in rock.

[Storms123]

He's gross--just gross. "We want to honor is legacy to the band....he's over here in this drawer"

[BombaySapphire3]

It just seems like Mick's baseline level of pettiness and tackiness.None of it comes as a surprise from that one.

[lovethemac1]

Mick consistently lowers the bar for the requirements of being the world's sh*ttiest person. What a scumbag!

OMG!!! That is the truth. Mick is an a$$hole and a big f’in loser.

[sue]

The Van Halen brothers airbrushed Michael Anthony out of all photos on the Van Halen website. I believe his credits were also removed.
While Mick is petty and cheap, the Van Halen brothers still take a grudge a bit further than Mick but are probably on par with Stevie.
Michael Anthony got fired and banished because he took the side of Sammy Hagar .
Lindsey got fired because he danced behind Stevie at an awards show.
Two of the dumbest firings ever in rock.

Lindsey didn’t get fired because of his dancing.....no he was fired because Mick’s coffers were getting low.
Stevie says, “you want us to tour ?...you get rid of Lindsey once and for all and then I’ll tour”.
So Lindsey got fired.
Because Mick was broke.....oh and Stevie had waited and waited etc etc

[vivfox]

Lindsey got fired because he danced behind Stevie at an awards show.

No, that was Mick & Christine doing a waltz.

[jbrownsjr]

No, that was Mick & Christine doing a waltz.

He smirked.

[bombaysaffires]

He smirked.

while Mick and Chris laughed. :shrug:

[David]

I asked the staff if there were any photos for sale of Lindsey. They said, "Um, yeah we have some. We aren't allowed to put them out, but we can show them to you over here." And they took us to a cabinet and pulled out a handful of them laid out in one of the drawers. Then they told us they were given clear direction that they were NOT to put ANY pics of Lindsey out on display, explaining, "They're kind of on the outs". One of us said, "Yeah, I guess when there's lawsuits involved it gets tricky." One of the staff then said, very quickly, in a way that sounded like they got talking points in case someone brought it up, "Well they settled the lawsuit very quickly. They wanted to acknowledge his contributions to the songs."As pathetically small-minded as this is, you gotta admit it’s comical, too. Reading the anecdote made me laugh. Of course all of you are right: what Mick is doing in his restaurant with the LB photos is beyond petty and vindictive over the lawsuit. It may even be insane. After all, the band forced LB’s hand.

Did Mick imagine that LB would allow himself to get dumped out of his band for the second time and just slink away quietly into the night? How unhinged do you have to be? Like Jane Fonda bragging about her “sustainable” gold jewelry and her “responsibly farmed” diamonds at the Oscars, Mike is disconnected from reality.

(Actually, they’re all at that age where some of them will start showing more and more signs of dementia and senile confusion.)

[bombaysaffires]

What I found curious was, if Mick et al are soooo "committed" to the latest line up, why there is absolutely NO representation of that line up? Sure, there's a big photo of Mike (with Tom) but not a single acknowledgement of Neil or of Mike and Neil alongside the rest of the members. I get why Morrisson's might not have them up for sale (I don't think there's great demand, call me cynical :D) but why not at least one somewhere on Mick's premises in the restaurant? Every single photo was of the the Five. It's like the current line up doesn't exist. Go figure. Indeed, we only saw one pic of Chris by herself, and it was around the corner by the service elevator, by itself. In the public spaces were pics of Mick and his various kids and partners, Mick and John, and...Stevie. (There was one with Rick alongside Mick and John possibly having been golfing). I mean, there was even a poster featuring Steven Tyler's ass (taken of him performing on the rooftop 'stage' and used in a poster to promote the venue's live music)

[elle]

As pathetically small-minded as this is, you gotta admit it’s comical, too. Reading the anecdote made me laugh. Of course all of you are right: what Mick is doing in his restaurant with the LB photos is beyond petty and vindictive over the lawsuit. It may even be insane. After all, the band forced LB’s hand.

Did Mick imagine that LB would allow himself to get dumped out of his band for the second time and just slink away quietly into the night? How unhinged do you have to be?

he imagined Lindsey would go with their concocted story that he "left" because he was hoping Lindsey wouldn't want the story that he was "fired" out.

there were some rumors (probably accurate, knowing these lowlifes!) that Lindsey was presented with papers to sign saying that he left of his own will. then they were gonna make him look bad as leaving the band again right at the eve of already booked tour, and so poor them had to scramble to find his replacements. needless to say, LB didn't want to sign anything like that and made sure the truth gets out. (again, not sure whether this story is true, but looks very plausible.)

[Villavic]

LOTS of photos of Stevie (alone, with FM, with Tom) from both FM shoots and solo shoots. Staff told our group that Stevie and Chris have both been in the store and that Stevie saw a photo of herself she'd never seen before and had to get one of the prints. (Wonder if she had to pay or put it on Mick's tab? I mean, that's the least one could do for one's meal ticket, but then again, we're talking Mick). There's a nice photo of Stevie and Christine during the Little Lies video shoot for sale also.

I asked the staff if there were any photos for sale of Lindsey. They said, "Um, yeah we have some. We aren't allowed to put them out, but we can show them to you over here." And they took us to a cabinet and pulled out a handful of them laid out in one of the drawers. Then they told us they were given clear direction that they were NOT to put ANY pics of Lindsey out on display, explaining, "They're kind of on the outs". One of us said, "Yeah, I guess when there's lawsuits involved it gets tricky." One of the staff then said, very quickly, in a way that sounded like they got talking points in case someone brought it up, "Well they settled the lawsuit very quickly. They wanted to acknowledge his contributions to the songs." :shocked:

Lindsey's only presence was in a couple of vintage 70s group shots. There was however a nice B&W pic of Stevie and Tom for sale and a huge color photo of Tom and Mike onstage prominently displayed inside the restaurant (not for sale in the gallery). Zero photos we saw of the current lineup anywhere.

I was there in 2014, a month later I saw them in NJ (On with the Show tour). I took some pictures. Just checked them and I didn't find any pic with Christine. Weird, since I'm a big fan and was more than happy with her return. So if there were Chris photos, I'm sure I would have taken them. So probably there weren't, but I do remember listening her songs at the restaurant.

Was there this pic among those you saw?
https://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff101/villavic/aaa_zpsu3ztgtst.jpg

And, if you want to have fun destroying and trampling on the bad boy, I share this one. There were several pictures of him in disguise. :D
https://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff101/villavic/aab_zpsary7m52x.jpg

[Villavic]

he imagined Lindsey would go with their concocted story that he "left" because he was hoping Lindsey wouldn't want the story that he was "fired" out.

there were some rumors (probably accurate, knowing these lowlifes!) that Lindsey was presented with papers to sign saying that he left of his own will. then they were gonna make him look bad as leaving the band again right at the eve of already booked tour, and so poor them had to scramble to find his replacements. needless to say, LB didn't want to sign anything like that and made sure the truth gets out. (again, not sure whether this story is true, but looks very plausible.)

I agree with the needless to say. So, do you really think those guys thought Lindsey would sign? Knowing him for years? Naaaaa. I don't think the rumor is real.

[elle]

I agree with the needless to say. So, do you really think those guys thought Lindsey would sign? Knowing him for years? Naaaaa. I don't think the rumor is real.

it may or may not be. or parts of it might be - certainly Mick stuck to the script that "Lindsey left" and "we don't wanna say fired" for a very long time, as was all their PR in the press. so they definitely wanted to present it as he left of his own volition. you still see it places.

remember the first article that stated he was fired was in the Rolling Stone magazine - all others before it were saying "he left again" - and LB has fans and friends at RS. he may have given them a heads up that band is trying to spread a false story.

[Neal]

And, if you want to have fun destroying and trampling on the bad boy, I share this one. There were several pictures of him in disguise. :D
https://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff101/villavic/aab_zpsary7m52x.jpg

I was in Maui this past Christmas, and there was a whole series of Mick-in-drag photos (including this one) all over the bathroom walls. Quite unsettling. :nod::shocked:

The only photo of Christine I saw in the gallery was one taken from her 1984 solo shoot for People Magazine (sitting on the bed, legs crossed). I thought it odd that there weren't more of her.

The older lady running the place was super friendly, however some of her info was off. A couple was mentioning how well Stevie has aged, and the lady drew their attention to a Rumours era photo, correctly cited as 1977, and compared it to a 2014 photo that was in fact from 1998 and used all over the Enchanted promo material.

[bombaysaffires]

We didn't see that one, but then I don't use the men's room, so....

Looks a bit like him doing his impression of Stevie onstage...:eek:

[SteveMacD]

This is where I call BS.

If there were countless pictures of the classic/SYW/LBCM lineups on the wall, the same people complaining of his pettiness for not displaying pictures of Lindsey would be calling him greedy by trying to make an extra buck or two off of Lindsey.

[bombaysaffires]

This is where I call BS.

If there were countless pictures of the classic/SYW/LBCM lineups on the wall, the same people complaining of his pettiness for not displaying pictures of Lindsey would be calling him greedy by trying to make an extra buck or two off of Lindsey.

As the OP let me clarify that I wasn't calling out the lack of LB pics in HIS restaurant (which he can do since it's his business), I posted because I found it a bit petty that he had instructed ANOTHER BUSINESS (i.e., Morrison Hotel Gallery) to not put out certain of their merchandise for sale (pics of LB) because of his beef with someone. I get that it's a shared space (though I don't know if he actually owns the building or leases it) between their gallery and his "general store". As for him making money off LB or his likeness, he certainly didn't have any problem with having Lindsey's face all over adverts for the tour.:eek:

(And for the record there were images of the Rumours 5 in the restaurant, and for sale in the Morrison's gallery. Just nothing of LB individually).

[HomerMcvie]

I get that it's a shared space (though I don't know if he actually owns the building or leases it) between their gallery and his "general store".


As IF that LOSER would own it. I'll bet $20 that he leases. He's not smart enough to own it. He's a pathetic P.O.S.

[BombaySapphire3]

As IF that LOSER would own it. I'll bet $20 that he leases. He's not smart enough to own it. He's a pathetic P.O.S.

And if he did own it he would lose it in yet another bankruptcy in a couple of years if he can no longer milk another Fakewood Mac cash grab tour. I hope this old grifter dies penniless.

[HomerMcvie]

And if he did own it he would lose it in yet another bankruptcy in a couple of years if he can no longer milk another Fakewood Mac cash grab tour. I hope this old grifter dies penniless.

If anyone ever deserved to die penniless, it's him.

The Old Goat earned her tin cans $he chews on.

Old Dick milked everyone else's talent. He has displaced The Old Goat's position on my sh*t list. Old Dick is #1 now. The Old Goat is #2. (I just called her #2, for anyone that didn't get that reference!:p )

[Storms123]

If anyone ever deserved to die penniless, it's him.

The Old Goat earned her tin cans $he chews on.

Old Dick milked everyone else's talent. He has displaced The Old Goat's position on my sh*t list. Old Dick is #1 now. The Old Goat is #2. (I just called her #2, for anyone that didn't get that reference!:p )

I agree with you...Mick is more despicable than Stevie. That's saying something, but there is truly something "crawling on the earth on your belly" slimy about him. Moreso than her.

[HomerMcvie]

I agree with you...Mick is more despicable than Stevie. That's saying something, but there is truly something "crawling on the earth on your belly" slimy about him. Moreso than her.

He's truly scum.

[SteveMacD]

Scum?

At worst, he’s a money whore and bad entrepreneur, but scum seems like a stretch.

I seem to remember Bob Welch saying that Mick was the only member of the band (SYW lineup) who was willing to play a benefit show for Wendy. He also had choice words for Stevie and Lindsey.

Anyway, if the choice was between replacing Lindsey or disbanding...I mean, if they didn’t disband over Peter Green, they certainly weren’t over Lindsey Buckingham.

[Villavic]

if they didn’t disband over Peter Green, they certainly weren’t over Lindsey Buckingham.

Yes but Peter leaving the band was far different than this last Lindsey episode. Lindsey is not brain damaged (well, maybe Stevie thinks he is, I don't know, but I don't). Peter began to get crazed, bad behavior on stage. He left the band or the band was really forced to fired him. It's not the first time a band fires a member because of drug addictions. That's not the case of Lindsey being fired in 2018.

But yes, they have the choice to disband or continue. And they chose to continue and though I was angry about it, I wasn't surprised.

[David]

Scum?

At worst, he’s a money whore and bad entrepreneur, but scum seems like a stretch. Yeah. He still has the same good points he’s always had: great “feel” drummer with subtlety, fascinating showmanship, keen pop and blues instincts, musical boldness, and so on. His bad points are still bad—actually, he became a figure of ridicule quite awhile back, maybe the episode where he sold wine at Costco. After that low, his business ventures almost all seemed whorey (always capitalizing on the Fleetwood Mac name to hock garbage that felt like a pyramid scheme product). Nowadays, many of us laugh at him more than take delight in his musical work, which is probably not the impression he most wants to leave us with.

I seem to remember Bob Welch saying that Mick was the only member of the band (SYW lineup) who was willing to play a benefit show for Wendy. He also had choice words for Stevie and Lindsey.Really? What? I missed that interview.

Anyway, if the choice was between replacing Lindsey or disbanding...I mean, if they didn’t disband over Peter Green, they certainly weren’t over Lindsey Buckingham.The band’s zombie syndrome (never dying after getting hacked up) has been both a blessing and a curse, sometimes both at once. For example: in the middle of a bland, listless, “acty” set in 1987, the band with two new guys played ferociously and achingly on “Don’t Let Me Down Again” and “Another Woman.” Two concert highlights in my lengthy exposure to their live shows that I did not expect at all.

[secondhandchain]

Imagine running into gumby scarf man sitting by himself at Gelson's in LA selling that awful wine? NO ONE was at the table, so I went up and bought a bottle. HE WAS RUDE AF. Not a fan of money grubbing Gumby scarf man.

[Villavic]

selling that awful wine?

What wine are you talking about? Since this thread is about Mick, I suppose you bought a Cabernet or Merlot from "his" Monterey County Private cellar.

Well the 2011 Cabernet was great, a 4.4 over 5*. Of course I guess his only merit on producing that wine was putting his name. And of course I chose the one that doesn't include his face in the label.

[HomerMcvie]

Scum?

At worst, he’s a money whore and bad entrepreneur, but scum seems like a stretch.

I seem to remember Bob Welch saying that Mick was the only member of the band (SYW lineup) who was willing to play a benefit show for Wendy. He also had choice words for Stevie and Lindsey.

Anyway, if the choice was between replacing Lindsey or disbanding...I mean, if they didn’t disband over Peter Green, they certainly weren’t over Lindsey Buckingham.
I'm just glad that we have an in house authority on all such issues.

[michelej1]

Well, we knew what we were dealing with when they initially tried to keep him off the Sirius channel.

[jbrownsjr]

Well, we knew what we were dealing with when they initially tried to keep him off the Sirius channel.

It was so obvious, it was embarrassing.

[cbBen]

Well, we knew what we were dealing with when they initially tried to keep him off the Sirius channel.

What happened?

[SteveMacD]

What happened?

None of Lindsey’s segments aired the first week.

[SteveMacD]

I always take things I see on Facebook with a pound of salt, but this caught my eye:

I was supposed to talk to Peter Green on the phone but before it happened my friend who was organising it Fleetwood Mac secretary Judy Wong sadly died. Mick gave her a great funeral at Hollywood forever, I will always miss you, the Unique Judy Wong.

[aleuzzi]

I would never wish anyone to die penniless. As much as Mick's revisionist leanings annoy me, I don't think he's an outright scumbag. Sure--he's a coward, a side-changer, an opportunist...Let's call him Italy in both world wars. But he's this way out of his own personal necessity: he needs a band and relies on front persons to keep the flame of Fleetwood Mac burning.

He was wrong to allow Lindsey to be fired. But I'm not surprised he (or anyone else among the remaining Rumours lineup) decided to go for the easy big money of a boring "replacement" tour. They're all capitalists trying to convince us that cheap corrugated board countertops are as good as marble.

[jbrownsjr]

I would never wish anyone to die penniless. As much as Mick's revisionist leanings annoy me, I don't think he's an outright scumbag. Sure--he's a coward, a side-changer, an opportunist...Let's call him Italy in both world wars. But he's this way out of his own personal necessity: he needs a band and relies on front persons to keep the flame of Fleetwood Mac burning.

He was wrong to allow Lindsey to be fired. But I'm not surprised he (or anyone else among the remaining Rumours lineup) decided to go for the easy big money of a boring "replacement" tour. They're all capitalists trying to convince us that cheap corrugated board countertops are as good as marble.

That's exactly right. If you want to blame someone, go to the source. The reason he's out of Fleetwood Mac is because of Sleezy Nicks. This is not in dispute. I can't fault someone for not wanting to make a sizable living and live the way they are used to.

Sleezy Nicks should have been blocked or talked out of it. I smirk when I see her picture! I cringe when I hear her voice.

[BombaySapphire3]

I would never wish anyone to die penniless. As much as Mick's revisionist leanings annoy me, I don't think he's an outright scumbag. Sure--he's a coward, a side-changer, an opportunist...Let's call him Italy in both world wars. But he's this way out of his own personal necessity: he needs a band and relies on front persons to keep the flame of Fleetwood Mac burning.

He was wrong to allow Lindsey to be fired. But I'm not surprised he (or anyone else among the remaining Rumours lineup) decided to go for the easy big money of a boring "replacement" tour. They're all capitalists trying to convince us that cheap corrugated board countertops are as good as marble.

Okay I don't really hope that Mick dies in penury . It is just that his constant hare brained money making schemes followed by bankruptcy after bankruptcy does get annoying and then add to this his collusion with Stevie to kick the architect of their sound out of the band forever is just bleech. There is only one person that I can think of offhand that I would like to see that happen to and he is of a considerably more orange hue.

[aleuzzi]

Okay I don't really hope that Mick dies in penury . It is just that his constant hare brained money making schemes followed by bankruptcy after bankruptcy does get annoying and then add to this his collusion with Stevie to kick the architect of their sound out of the band forever is just bleech. There is only one person that I can think of offhand that I would like to see that happen to and he is of a considerably more orange hue.

I get it.

FM ceases to exist for me without LB. I mean, a miracle might happen where Fleetwood and the McVies come out with a blues album. That'd be a blast. But, ugh, nothing from FM is coming out without Stevie and she's gotten her way on this one. So, goodbye Fleetwood Mac.

[SteveMacD]

That's exactly right. If you want to blame someone, go to the source. The reason he's out of Fleetwood Mac is because of Sleezy Nicks. This is not in dispute. I can't fault someone for not wanting to make a sizable living and live the way they are used to.

Sleezy Nicks should have been blocked or talked out of it. I smirk when I see her picture! I cringe when I hear her voice.

I’m still not convinced it’s that cut and dry.

I can easily see Lindsey (rightfully) copping an attitude that he couldn’t use the Fleetwood Mac name for LBCM. Then he made those ill-advised comments about the Classic shows. The chemistry between him and Stevie wasn’t there during those shows from what I’ve observed. Per his own comments, he asked for a delay and the negotiations became tense. I can’t imagine he was ever on board with exploring the pre-1975 material, which was obviously important to Mick at that point. Something minor and ridiculous like mocking Stevie during her speech became the last straw for Stevie, but he’d burned enough bridges within the machine (ie Mick and Azoff) that there wasn’t anybody left to smooth things over, except Christine, but she’s a company gal (LBCM liner notes) and it was out of her control by that point.

It sucks, but he proved to be easily replaced for the purposes of having a massively successful tour. Maybe keeping his head down, minding his P’s & Q’s, and playing along would have behooved him the second Tom Petty’s guitarist and Stevie’s good friend became available and Mick was going to New Zealand to record with another art rocker. P

[jbrownsjr]

I’m still not convinced it’s that cut and dry.

I can easily see Lindsey (rightfully) copping an attitude that he couldn’t use the Fleetwood Mac name for LBCM. Then he made those ill-advised comments about the Classic shows. The chemistry between him and Stevie wasn’t there during those shows from what I’ve observed. Per his own comments, he asked for a delay and the negotiations became tense. I can’t imagine he was ever on board with exploring the pre-1975 material, which was obviously important to Mick at that point. Something minor and ridiculous like mocking Stevie during her speech became the last straw for Stevie, but he’d burned enough bridges within the machine (ie Mick and Azoff) that there wasn’t anybody left to smooth things over, except Christine, but she’s a company gal (LBCM liner notes) and it was out of her control by that point.

It sucks, but he proved to be easily replaced for the purposes of having a massively successful tour. Maybe keeping his head down, minding his P’s & Q’s, and playing along would have behooved him the second Tom Petty’s guitarist and Stevie’s good friend became available and Mick was going to New Zealand to record with another art rocker. P

I don't buy any of that except the burning bridges happened over time. These two have hated each other for a very long time. Those bridges have been on fire for years.

Exploring pre material?? Maybe your speculation was correct and LB didn't want it and they figured out he was right and dropped all the good tunes they started off with. Mind you, I loved pre-1975. So, I'm with whomever wanted to do it. (Sans Sleezy ruining Black Magic Women.)

But, the reason Lindsey was ousted was because Sleezy went to mgmt. I've heard that from enough sources to believe otherwise.

[aleuzzi]

It sucks, but he proved to be easily replaced for the purposes of having a massively successful tour. Maybe keeping his head down, minding his P’s & Q’s, and playing along would have behooved him the second Tom Petty’s guitarist and Stevie’s good friend became available and Mick was going to New Zealand to record with another art rocker. P

It’s hard to read this comment as anything but deliberately provocative. Mind his P’s and Q’s? As far as the 2000s go, Lindsey was clearly more central to the band and its mission than Stevie. He was the one instigating new work — and meeting a brick wall. He was available when Stevie stepped away for IN YOUR DREAMS and then for her lackluster collection of previously-unused demos. He was their musical and creative driving force—but not their cash draw. Stevie knew and used her power to leverage him out of the band. It’s pretty darn obvious to even the casual observer. And while casual listeners and observers might have been willing to fork over $ to see the imposters‘ jamboree, any of the genuine fans know the difference between what they were and what they’ve become.

And arguments about how the band has always morphed and always taken on change as its primary identity aren’t viable in 2020. They might have been in 1987–and even then they would have had to have found more creative replacements...

[elle]

It’s hard to read this comment as anything but deliberately provocative. Mind his P’s and Q’s? .

right? why exactly would he need to do something like that? just give up and brown-nose for a few dollars more when you are 68 years old, wealthy, creative and full of energy?

if those are your options, carrying your head up high (especially when you can afford it without hurting your family!) vs alternative is definitely the preferred option for any human with self worth.

yeah yeah, we know that there are others in that band (or contracted by it) who chose the alternative, whether they had to or not. and apparently Mike Campbell is now crying that his little theater tour as a completely unknown is not providing him big jets and expensive hotels he likes.

[SteveMacD]

Mind his P’s and Q’s?
Yes. Look at what not doing so got him. There’s a time and place to let one’s feelings be known and to be assertive. Lindsey picked the absolute worst time to do either.

As far as the 2000s go, Lindsey was clearly more central to the band and its mission than Stevie.
The band’s central mission is making money, so I’m sure they wouldn’t agree.

He was the one instigating new work — and meeting a brick wall. He was available when Stevie stepped away for IN YOUR DREAMS and then for her lackluster collection of previously-unused demos. He was their musical and creative driving force—but not their cash draw.
Saint Lindsey. He was instigating new work, but it wasn’t that important to the other three. Lindsey has done the least amongst them throughout his career. He’s released exactly two more solo albums than Christine since 1997. Think about that. From 1997-2004, Peter Green was significantly more productive than Lindsey.

Stevie knew and used her power to leverage him out of the band. It’s pretty darn obvious to even the casual observer.
Maybe. But Stevie wouldn’t have just decided to kick him out of the band without a reason, and Mick wouldn’t have just gone along with it if, all things being equal, he felt strongly about it. They all like money too much to risk jeopardizing their earning potential by breaking up their legendary lineup, so I don’t doubt it was a bad situation.

I’m not a casual observer. Lindsey’s attitude, especially towards Stevie, seemed to change after Christine came back. He started letting his guard down more, and that’s a dangerous thing to do when you have an adversarial relationship with the one who has sold 30 million albums outside of the band.

And while casual listeners and observers might have been willing to fork over $ to see the imposters‘ jamboree, any of the genuine fans know the difference between what they were and what they’ve become.
Or, like me, maybe they were sick of the fake Stevie-Lindsey play, the same tired setlist, and the excessive use of prerecords and saw something valid in what they were at least initially attempting. I’m glad I got to see the initial vision for the tour, because it was pretty spot-on and would never have happened with Lindsey. I’m disappointed that it devolved into the usual.

And arguments about how the band has always morphed and always taken on change as its primary identity aren’t viable in 2020.
To a point I agree. However, if Stevie would agree to do an album, Finn and Campbell would easily prove their creative value to the band.

They might have been in 1987–and even then they would have had to have found more creative replacements...
Are you seriously suggesting Billy Burnette and Rick Vito are more creative than Neil Finn and Mike Campbell? I can’t imagine better, more appropriate choices for Fleetwood Mac, except maybe Richard Thompson.

[SteveMacD]

right? why exactly would he need to do something like that? just give up and brown-nose for a few dollars more when you are 68 years old, wealthy, creative and full of energy?
More like a few million more.

if those are your options, carrying your head up high (especially when you can afford it without hurting your family!) vs alternative is definitely the preferred option for any human with self worth.
Hold your head up, rise above it...Sure, that’s why he sued.

yeah yeah, we know that there are others in that band (or contracted by it) who chose the alternative, whether they had to or not. and apparently Mike Campbell is now crying that his little theater tour as a completely unknown is not providing him big jets and expensive hotels he likes.
So when Lindsey wanted to make a Fleetwood Mac album, it was for art, but when Mike wants to make a Fleetwood Mac album, it’s because he’d rather be treated like a rock star (as if he’s not already a critically acclaimed Hall of Famer). Of all people, I would think Lindsey Buckingham fans would understand Mike Campbell’s frustration about Fleetwood Mac not making new music, maybe even moreso. I would totally want to record with the longest running rhythm section in rock, plus talents like Neil Finn and Christine McVie. (I didn’t mention Stevie because he’s worked extensively with her already.).

[elle]

Of all people, I would think Lindsey Buckingham fans would understand Mike Campbell’s frustration about Fleetwood Mac not making new music, maybe even moreso..

seriously? :lol::shrug:

Mike has no history of making music as Fleetwood Mac, so why would he be frustrated about something he was never a part of all of the sudden now at 70? he can make as much music as he wants with his other bands, Fleetwood Mac is not holding him back and telling him to wait and convert his new music to FM albums.

and apparently, unlike Lindsey, he doesn't like playing his new music that nobody knows. very unlike Lindsey who LOVES to play new music to people!

waiting for Rhiannon movie to be finished. Mike''s safe. he's got 40+ years to do whatever he wants. :thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

Mike has no history of making music as Fleetwood Mac, so why would he be frustrated about something he was never a part of all of the sudden now at 70?
Because he’s a member of Fleetwood Mac, now, and would like to make new music with them? :shrug:

I mean, Mike is a student of rock and appreciates that he’s working with rock’s longest running rhythm section.

he can make as much music as he wants with his other bands, Fleetwood Mac is not holding him back and telling him to wait and convert his new music to FM albums.
Which is exactly what he’s doing. And, he wasn’t suggesting that they were holding him back, just that it would be great to make an album with them.

and apparently, unlike Lindsey, he doesn't like playing his new music that nobody knows. very unlike Lindsey who LOVES to play new music to people
I’d love to know how you deducted that from anything he said.

[elle]

More like a few million more.

Hold your head up, rise above it...Sure, that’s why he sued.


you answered your own question - hold your head up high, not having to eat sh*t, prove you are right - and still get that same money. :)

[elle]

he wasn’t suggesting that they were holding him back, just that it would be great to make an album with them.

you are clearly misreading his quotes. like Viv said on the other page - he's saying that new FM music is coming as soon as pigs fly. or Rhiannon movie gets made. whichever's first. :]

[jbrownsjr]

So Steve, should Mike mind his P's and Q's. and quit complaining that he wants to record new music? Is this the theory you speak of that rocks the corporate boat?

Here's my Bottom line: Sleezy Nicks went to mgmt over a long standing hatred, and she got him fired.

The rest of all of this is all crap.

[jmn3]

Trying to justify the nonsense that has occurred over the last two years with anything but Stevie hates Lindsey and got him fired is basically just blatantly ignoring facts that are staring everyone right in the face.

IMO, she's hated him for years. The Dance was required to reboot any of their careers and make money. He went and got married and had kids which was just a slap in the face to her. I think the inflection point where their relationship never recovered was clearly during Say You Will. That whole Bob Dylan thing, the fights about the album length, etc. It's why she's never really recorded with him again (at least not an album). Christine's return coupled with Tom's death gave her the opening she needed to execute her final F-U to Lindsey, and that's exactly what she did. She knows how to play Mick and where to hit him hard, and that's right in his wallet. A Stevie-less Fleetwood Mac won't sell out arenas (ironic, since Stevie solo without a band like The Pretenders or Rod Stewart on the bill, can't do it either). That means less money for Mick. She knew that Mick would never give up the gravy train for a less amount of gravy. And she knew that the McVie's would, with little argument, go along with Mick eventually.

That this happened in 2018 is just a joke. Anyone trying to carry the "The Mac always changes lineups" tune into the third decade of the 21st century is either pushing a narrative or is detached from reality. They aren't a band anymore. They're a touring act. There is no "band"...they have recorded nothing together, have done nothing creative, other than ride off the coattails of the band's previous work. At least with the original band in tact, you are seeing living legends recreate their own work. Seeing Neil Finn try to sing Go Your Own Way while Stevie Nicks grasps that mic stand and sings the "packing up, shacking up" lines to him is just embarrassing and tacky. Say what you want about Burnette and Vito, but at least they fairly quickly recorded music and a full length album within a couple years. This version of the band will be forgotten by history.

[SteveMacD]

you are clearly misreading his quotes. like Viv said on the other page - he's saying that new FM music is coming as soon as pigs fly. or Rhiannon movie gets made. whichever's first. :]
Actually, that was painfully clear. I read it as he’d really like to, but Stevie doesn’t want to. Just like in 2015-17.

So Steve, should Mike mind his P's and Q's. and quit complaining that he wants to record new music? Is this the theory you speak of that rocks the corporate boat?
Mike doesn’t have the same history with Stevie. They don’t have an adversarial relationship. It’s the same reason Mick and Christine waltzing at MusiCares didn’t rub Stevie the same way as Lindsey. Furthermore, Mike has contributed to all of her solo albums and holds the Heartbreakers card, so he probably has more leeway.

But Mick, Christine, Neil, and now Mike have let it be known that they want to make new music. Just like in 2015-17.

[elle]

Just like in 2015-17.

2012-2017.

and that's just the years FM actually did make new music together. not the ones they just wanted to.

[SteveMacD]

That means less money for Mick. She knew that Mick would never give up the gravy train for a less amount of gravy. And she knew that the McVie's would, with little argument, go along with Mick eventually.
Yeah. They had two choices, the difference between the choices was at least $6 million, for doing the exact same core songs. If you’re Mick and John, isn’t it really just one eccentricity vs. another and, all things being equal, you’d rather have more to show for the exact same amount of effort?

Anyone trying to carry the "The Mac always changes lineups" tune into the third decade of the 21st century is either pushing a narrative or is detached from reality.
Or is a fan of the overall body of work. Lindsey didn’t make significantly more albums with Fleetwood Mac than Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, or Bob Welch.

They aren't a band anymore.
Which was true as early as 1981.

They're a touring act. There is no "band"...they have recorded nothing together, have done nothing creative, other than ride off the coattails of the band's previous work.
Yep. Mick, John, Christine, and Stevie have recorded nothing together.

Say what you want about Burnette and Vito, but at least they fairly quickly recorded music and a full length album within a couple years. This version of the band will be forgotten by history.
It was a different time. They were coming off their second most successful album in 1990. The current version of Fleetwood Mac could have easily made a good album prior to the tour, just like in 2014.

[SteveMacD]

2012-2017.

and that's just the years FM actually did make new music together. not the ones they just wanted to.
Difference being Christine returning in 2014. After 2015, after what we thought was the cycle for 24KG, the prospects of a new Fleetwood Mac album seemed more realistic.

[elle]

Difference being Christine returning in 2014. After 2015, after what we thought was the cycle for 24KG, the prospects of a new Fleetwood Mac album seemed more realistic.

a-ha. they were just waiting until Stevie Nicks does her Rhiannon film.

[SteveMacD]

a-ha. they were just waiting until Stevie Nicks does her Rhiannon film.

Pretty much.

Neil and Mike are just as ready to make a Fleetwood Mac album as Lindsey was, only Mike seems more realistic about the chances of it actually happening. What pisses me off is Stevie telling Sheryl Crow that she had to keep making albums on Ellen.

[cbBen]

2012-2017.

and that's just the years FM actually did make new music together. not the ones they just wanted to.

I don't understand this. What are you saying here?

[cbBen]

there wasn’t anybody left to smooth things over, except Christine, but she’s a company gal (LBCM liner notes)

What did the notes say that reflect the above? Thanks.

[elle]

I don't understand this. What are you saying here?

what exactly don't you understand?

Fleetwood Mac went into studio in 2012 and recorded a bunch of tracks that were waiting for Stevie's input. they put a sampling of those out in 2013 on EP. then they added more songs in 2014 when Christine came back. Stevie kept going back and forth in 2016 interviews whether she'll join in on the effort. then in 2017 she changed that to a firm no and taunting them to never release that - because according to her that's what you do when you have recorded tracks for a new album - you just shelve them. that covers a period from 2012-2017.

they were not just talking about some wishful thinking about some possible FM album. they recorded a bunch of tracks for that album. and they kept trying to woo and talk Stevie into it. Mick was working on this with Lindsey, Christine and the band too - until he decided to turn and just go with whatever Stevie wants. i guess maybe he got himself on the brink of another bankruptcy some time in 2017?

that's very different than some touring contractor talking about how he would have loved to work on an album with FM but it's not gonna happen.

[lovethemac1]

Maybe keeping his head down, minding his P’s & Q’s, and playing along would have behooved him the second Tom Petty’s guitarist and Stevie’s good friend became available and Mick was going to New Zealand to record with another art rocker. P


I'd be willing to bet all of my savings, that Lindsey...although not perfect.....has learned to be more patient than Stevie. I think he minded his P's and Q's better than anyone else in the band, except maybe Mick (who only went along with whomever was in the room because he has no spine).

[aleuzzi]

So Steve, should Mike mind his P's and Q's. and quit complaining that he wants to record new music? Is this the theory you speak of that rocks the corporate boat?

Here's my Bottom line: Sleezy Nicks went to mgmt over a long standing hatred, and she got him fired.

The rest of all of this is all crap.

Exactly. Crap, smoke, and mirrors.

[jbrownsjr]

Exactly. Crap, smoke, and mirrors.

You mean to tell me if Lindsey was "THEEE" superstar from the band that he would have been fired??? Tell me this with a straight face. This event was a corporate decision that was triggered by the jealousy and megalomania of one person. The one person that had the power to do it.

Mick, John and Christine couldn't prevent it because they didn't want their livelihoods messed with at age 70-75. Can't imagine why?

There is no Sleezy Buckingham. Only Sleezy Nicks.

Also, there is no Dana, only Zuul.

[aleuzzi]

You mean to tell me if Lindsey was "THEEE" superstar from the band that he would have been fired??? Tell me this with a straight face. This event was a corporate decision that was triggered by the jealousy and megalomania of one person. The one person that had the power to do it.

Mick, John and Christine couldn't prevent it because they didn't want their livelihoods messed with at age 70-75. Can't imagine why?



I totally hear you and am with you on this. Anyone who tries to spin the story otherwise is delusional.

[David]

This event was a corporate decision that was triggered by the jealousy and megalomania of one person. The one person that had the power to do it.Exactamundo. How did Azoff quote Stevie? “She won’t stand on a stage with you ever again.” That’s the only thing that sealed Lindsey’s fate.

Had Stevie said, “I want Lindsey in this band until the end,” he’d still be in the band — even if he had publicly referred to the Azoff corporate gigs as pure crap. The manager didn’t make the decision; Nicks and (by extension) Fleetwood made the decision. The manager was only the hatchet man.

This is entirely a Nicks thing. She was done with Buckingham.

[jbrownsjr]

Exactamundo. How did Azoff quote Stevie? “She won’t stand on a stage with you ever again.” That’s the only thing that sealed Lindsey’s fate.

Had Stevie said, “I want Lindsey in this band until the end,” he’d still be in the band — even if he had publicly referred to the Azoff corporate gigs as pure crap. The manager didn’t make the decision; Nicks and (by extension) Fleetwood made the decision. The manager was only the hatchet man.

This is entirely a Nicks thing. She was done with Buckingham.

Yesirreeeebob! As I said, the rest is just crap. ;)

[elle]

Exactamundo. How did Azoff quote Stevie? “She won’t stand on a stage with you ever again.” That’s the only thing that sealed Lindsey’s fate.

Had Stevie said, “I want Lindsey in this band until the end,” he’d still be in the band — even if he had publicly referred to the Azoff corporate gigs as pure crap. The manager didn’t make the decision; Nicks and (by extension) Fleetwood made the decision. The manager was only the hatchet man.

This is entirely a Nicks thing. She was done with Buckingham.

to be more accurate, she was done with him back in 1976-77 when she dumped him. that's why she "accidentally" slept with Mick immediately after - she was worried they'd boot her outta the band if Lindsey wanted so at the time so she needed the leverage. the difference now is that she was finally sure she had the power to pull it off.

[jbrownsjr]

to be more accurate, she was done with him back in 1976-77 when she dumped him. that's why she "accidentally" slept with Mick immediately after - she was worried they'd boot her outta the band if Lindsey wanted so at the time so she needed the leverage. the difference now is that she was finally sure she had the power to pull it off.

"Accidentally"? Did she trip and fall on top of Mick?

[elle]

"Accidentally"? Did she trip and fall on top of Mick?

remember the story was that the 2 of them were just by chance the last people at some drugged up drunken party and so it just happened. :laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

remember the story was that the 2 of them were just by chance the last people at some drugged up drunken party and so it just happened. :laugh:

How many times did that happen? Like every time?

[elle]

How many times did that happen? Like every time?

after that first accidental hookup they realized they were always meant to be liz taylor and richard burton. :p

dontya read micks books? :xoxo:

[Villavic]

after that first accidental hookup they realized they were always meant to be liz taylor and richard burton. :p

dontya read micks books? :xoxo:

Yes I did ;) (somehow I suspect more than one will laugh while reading the word "honor"):

It was in Australia that I fell for Stevie Nicks.
Our affair really began in L.A. even before we left for the Pacific. I'd sneak away from home to spend most of my time with Stevie, picking her up in one of my cars and driving along Mulholland. She was seeing a record executive and I was married and my parents were living with me, so everything was very secret, imbuing subsequent events with a kind of supercharged aura of romance. In Australia this blossomed into a full-on love affair.
It started up in New Zealand. Late one night, after the concert, a Samoan limo driver took me and Stevie for a long cruise along mountains and ridgebacks at dawn. At one point we got out and walked a bit in silence, waiting for the sun to rise. There was a mist that turned to a gentle rain, soaking us to our skin.

We were driven back to our hotel in a ferocious downpour, clinging to each other in the back of the car. Up in her suite, I said, "I think I'd like to stay here tonight."

* * *

We returned to California early in December, to find that Rumours had passed the eight million mark in sales and showed no sign of slowing. It was still the number one album in the country, and was selling an estimated 800,000 copies every week!

Understanding the past relationship between Lindsey and Stevie, as a point of honor I had to tell Lindsey that I was in love with her. However, my relationship with Stevie continued, awkwardly. I ran the gauntlet, trying to be in two places at once, fairly torn by guilt and responsibilities. The whole thing was kind of on and off, and that suited both of us, Stevie and myself.

[jbrownsjr]

Yes I did ;) (somehow I suspect more than one will laugh while reading the word "honor"):

It was in Australia that I fell for Stevie Nicks.
Our affair really began in L.A. even before we left for the Pacific. I'd sneak away from home to spend most of my time with Stevie, picking her up in one of my cars and driving along Mulholland. She was seeing a record executive and I was married and my parents were living with me, so everything was very secret, imbuing subsequent events with a kind of supercharged aura of romance. In Australia this blossomed into a full-on love affair.
It started up in New Zealand. Late one night, after the concert, a Samoan limo driver took me and Stevie for a long cruise along mountains and ridgebacks at dawn. At one point we got out and walked a bit in silence, waiting for the sun to rise. There was a mist that turned to a gentle rain, soaking us to our skin.

We were driven back to our hotel in a ferocious downpour, clinging to each other in the back of the car. Up in her suite, I said, "I think I'd like to stay here tonight."

* * *

We returned to California early in December, to find that Rumours had passed the eight million mark in sales and showed no sign of slowing. It was still the number one album in the country, and was selling an estimated 800,000 copies every week!

Understanding the past relationship between Lindsey and Stevie, as a point of honor I had to tell Lindsey that I was in love with her. However, my relationship with Stevie continued, awkwardly. I ran the gauntlet, trying to be in two places at once, fairly torn by guilt and responsibilities. The whole thing was kind of on and off, and that suited both of us, Stevie and myself.

Villavic, thank you for always posting these. I love when you do this. My memory of these books all blends into Carol's and Ken's books.

[button-lip]

Yes I did ;) (somehow I suspect more than one will laugh while reading the word "honor"):

It was in Australia that I fell for Stevie Nicks.
Our affair really began in L.A. even before we left for the Pacific. I'd sneak away from home to spend most of my time with Stevie, picking her up in one of my cars and driving along Mulholland. She was seeing a record executive and I was married and my parents were living with me, so everything was very secret, imbuing subsequent events with a kind of supercharged aura of romance. In Australia this blossomed into a full-on love affair.
It started up in New Zealand. Late one night, after the concert, a Samoan limo driver took me and Stevie for a long cruise along mountains and ridgebacks at dawn. At one point we got out and walked a bit in silence, waiting for the sun to rise. There was a mist that turned to a gentle rain, soaking us to our skin.

We were driven back to our hotel in a ferocious downpour, clinging to each other in the back of the car. Up in her suite, I said, "I think I'd like to stay here tonight."

* * *

We returned to California early in December, to find that Rumours had passed the eight million mark in sales and showed no sign of slowing. It was still the number one album in the country, and was selling an estimated 800,000 copies every week!

Understanding the past relationship between Lindsey and Stevie, as a point of honor I had to tell Lindsey that I was in love with her. However, my relationship with Stevie continued, awkwardly. I ran the gauntlet, trying to be in two places at once, fairly torn by guilt and responsibilities. The whole thing was kind of on and off, and that suited both of us, Stevie and myself.

OMG! Are you all suggesting that Stevie slept with Mick back in the 70s to prevent from being kicked out of the band and she was in fact never in love with him? That's….. low, even for someone like Saint Stevie. Although I'm not surprised. It suits her. :nod:
Like it suits her waiting 40 years for her revenge. Damn!!! :nod::nod:

[bombaysaffires]

OMG! Are you all suggesting that Stevie slept with Mick back in the 70s to prevent from being kicked out of the band and she was in fact never in love with him? That's….. low, even for someone like Saint Stevie. Although I'm not surprised. It suits her. :nod:
Like it suits her waiting 40 years for her revenge. Damn!!! :nod::nod:

The record exec she was seeing at the time would have been Paul Fishkin. But Stevie never let that stand in her way of taking what(who) she wanted. It reminds me of when the whole brouhaha happened with Kristen Stewart cheating on Robert Pattinson with one of her directors. Stevie was one of the people who came to Kristen's defense in the press, saying "I've cheated and been forgiven a few times and so should she." Clearly Paul was forgiving. Lindsey, maybe not so much. Plus the whole Mick affair, and him saying it was the kind of sneaky thing that appealed to both him and Stevie, always made it seem rather odd that Stevie would get all worked up about him starting to see Sara.:shrug: In one of Mick's interviews he says that throughout his and Stevie's affair she had several proper, official boyfriends as well. And of course through much of it he had a wife and kids. So it always struck me as odd that she felt justified in being mad about Sara and then banning her from the studio etc. Especially if Ken's story is true about her breaking up the engagement of one of their recording engineers so she could date him (presumably Hernan but who knows). Sorta fits with Carol's description of the culture around the band being that a band member could do no wrong, no matter what they did; everyone would find a way to blame someone else for anything.

[Murrow]

Yes but Peter leaving the band was far different than this last Lindsey episode. Lindsey is not brain damaged (well, maybe Stevie thinks he is, I don't know, but I don't). Peter began to get crazed, bad behavior on stage. He left the band or the band was really forced to fired him. It's not the first time a band fires a member because of drug addictions. That's not the case of Lindsey being fired in 2018.

But yes, they have the choice to disband or continue. And they chose to continue and though I was angry about it, I wasn't surprised.

I think you're getting a little muddled. It was Danny Kirwan who was fired for bad behaviour on stage. Peter left by choice and it shocked them all.