Get Tusked

[jbrownsjr]

I did a quick search to see if anyone posted about this. Apologies if I missed it.
I'll delete this if there's a thread already. This is just one of the links I saw for the book.



https://www.target.com/p/get-tusked-by-ken-caillat-hardcover/-/A-76605682?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=1013587&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&ds_rl=1246978&gclid=CjwKCAjw27jnBRBuEiwAdjQXDKCpX7YgS5Qwg_1J9-791SCrMf5hhp_QggSfS12psBofcH9IAGyHFRoCqMsQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[HomerMcvie]

I wonder how many copies get sold of this stuff. I mean, we're die hards, and buy it, but will 10K people do that? It's difficult to imagine that it would be worth publishing to only sell 1K copies.

I googled CAH's Storms, for copies sold, and couldn't find an answer...

[jbrownsjr]

I wonder how many copies get sold of this stuff. I mean, we're die hards, and buy it, but will 10K people do that? It's difficult to imagine that it would be worth publishing to only sell 1K copies.

I googled CAH's Storms, for copies sold, and couldn't find an answer...

Depends on marketing budget and distribution.
We shall see. Only 5 more months. haha

[bombaysaffires]

while I'm sure Ken would love to rake in beaucoup bucks from his book(s), one has to also consider that maybe he also wants to document things for the "historical record" as it were. Like other people in the band or whomever may go on to write their own books which will reflect their own perspectives and biases, or... maybe none of the band will and it'll all be lost once everyone involved is gone, so he wants to put his version of the story out there. I also think based on stuff he's said in various interviews etc that he kinda feels a bit slighted by Lindsey, that he (and maybe to some extent Richard also) don't get their fair dues in regards to what they contributed to these FM albums-- what ideas they contributed etc and all credit tends to go automatically to LB (e.g., Richard saying the band didn't really see the potential of Dreams but he did and pushed in his way to get them to give it a go; and Ken saying it was his idea to do the pre-chorus on Dreams (stillness....lonely....heartbeat....etc). People want their contributions recognized
So maybe his goal in getting a book out goes beyond just the NYT best seller list or lots of royalties. :shrug:

[elle]

while I'm sure Ken would love to rake in beaucoup bucks from his book(s), one has to also consider that maybe he also wants to document things for the "historical record" as it were. Like other people in the band or whomever may go on to write their own books which will reflect their own perspectives and biases, or... maybe none of the band will and it'll all be lost once everyone involved is gone, so he wants to put his version of the story out there. I also think based on stuff he's said in various interviews etc that he kinda feels a bit slighted by Lindsey, that he (and maybe to some extent Richard also) don't get their fair dues in regards to what they contributed to these FM albums-- what ideas they contributed etc and all credit tends to go automatically to LB (e.g., Richard saying the band didn't really see the potential of Dreams but he did and pushed in his way to get them to give it a go; and Ken saying it was his idea to do the pre-chorus on Dreams (stillness....lonely....heartbeat....etc). People want their contributions recognized
So maybe his goal in getting a book out goes beyond just the NYT best seller list or lots of royalties. :shrug:

yes, because Caillat and Dashut actually got both the producer credit and royalties that go with that, in addition to accolades. unlike Lindsey who got no credit and no money for producing those albums with them.

he definitely seems to have some bones he wants to pick with Lindsey, that's been pretty obvious for a while now.

[vivfox]

yes, because Caillat and Dashut actually got both the producer credit and royalties that go with that, in addition to accolades. unlike Lindsey who got no credit and no money for producing those albums with them.

Good news elle. On my original copy of Tusk from 1979 it says: Produced by Lindsey Buckingham with Richard Dashut & Ken Calliet. And somewhere in it's liner notes it says: Special thanks from the Band to Lindsey Buckingham.

[elle]

Good news elle. On my original copy of Tusk from 1979 it says: Produced by Lindsey Buckingham with Richard Dashut & Ken Calliet. And somewhere in it's liner notes it says: Special thanks from the Band to Lindsey Buckingham.

interesting - would you re-check and please share a photo of it?

i don't have original copy of Tusk, but seems that everywhere else but on that original copy of yours producers of Tusk are Fleetwood Mac, Ken Caillat, and Richard Dashut https://www.allmusic.com/album/tusk-mw0000190000/credits

Fleetwood Mac
Tusk

AllMusic Rating 10 User Ratings (1,582)


Credits
Artist Credit
Peter Beard Photography
Dave Brolan Project Assistant
Lindsey Buckingham Composer, Group Member, Guitar, Quotation Author, Track Engineer, Vocals
Patrick Byrne Crew
Ken Caillat Engineer, Producer
Richard Dashut Engineer, Producer
Jason Day Project Supervisor
Kate Dear Project Supervisor
Sheryl Farber Project Assistant
Rich Feldman Assistant
Fleetwood Mac Primary Artist, Producer
Mick Fleetwood Drums, Group Member, Percussion
Tim Fraser-Harding Project Supervisor
Lisa Glines Project Assistant
Daniel Hersch Remastering
Bill Inglot Reissue Producer
Jim Irvin Liner Notes
Mike Johnson Project Assistant
Raymond Lindsey Crew
Christine McVie Composer, Group Member, Keyboards, Synthesizer, Vocals
John McVie Bass, Group Member
Stevie Nicks Composer, Group Member, Vocals
Jayne Odgers Photography
Ken Perry Mastering
Hernan Rojas Assistant, Engineer
Norman Seeff Photography
Amanda J. Smith Repackaging Supervison
Matt Smyth Project Assistant
John Strother Project Assistant
Olivia Thomas Product Manager
Greg Thomason Crew
Vigon Nahas Vigon Art Direction, Design
Mike Wilson Project Assistant
Rory Wilson Reissue Design
Steve Woolard Reissue Producer


and yes, because Lindsey is NOT listed as a producer on Tusk while he did the work, while FM as a band is listed as a producer, band did give him "special thanks" for basically taking his producing credit.

[elle]

Good news elle. On my original copy of Tusk from 1979 it says: Produced by Lindsey Buckingham with Richard Dashut & Ken Calliet. And somewhere in it's liner notes it says: Special thanks from the Band to Lindsey Buckingham.

this is what i found that it actually says (on remaster):

Produced by Fleetwood Mac (special thanks from the band to Lindsey Buckingham) with Richard Dashut & Ken Caillat.

[bombaysaffires]

this is what i found that it actually says (on remaster):

Produced by Fleetwood Mac (special thanks from the band to Lindsey Buckingham) with Richard Dashut & Ken Caillat.

this is what I recall it saying from the time of release, because LB commented later that he should have been listed as producer, not the lame "special thanks"

[HomerMcvie]

interesting - would you re-check and please share a photo of it?

i don't have original copy of Tusk, but seems that everywhere else but on that original copy of yours producers of Tusk are Fleetwood Mac, Ken Caillat, and Richard Dashut https://www.allmusic.com/album/tusk-mw0000190000/credits

Fleetwood Mac
Tusk

AllMusic Rating 10 User Ratings (1,582)


Credits
Artist Credit
Peter Beard Photography
Dave Brolan Project Assistant
Lindsey Buckingham Composer, Group Member, Guitar, Quotation Author, Track Engineer, Vocals
Patrick Byrne Crew
Ken Caillat Engineer, Producer
Richard Dashut Engineer, Producer
Jason Day Project Supervisor
Kate Dear Project Supervisor
Sheryl Farber Project Assistant
Rich Feldman Assistant
Fleetwood Mac Primary Artist, Producer
Mick Fleetwood Drums, Group Member, Percussion
Tim Fraser-Harding Project Supervisor
Lisa Glines Project Assistant
Daniel Hersch Remastering
Bill Inglot Reissue Producer
Jim Irvin Liner Notes
Mike Johnson Project Assistant
Raymond Lindsey Crew
Christine McVie Composer, Group Member, Keyboards, Synthesizer, Vocals
John McVie Bass, Group Member
Stevie Nicks Composer, Group Member, Vocals
Jayne Odgers Photography
Ken Perry Mastering
Hernan Rojas Assistant, Engineer
Norman Seeff Photography
Amanda J. Smith Repackaging Supervison
Matt Smyth Project Assistant
John Strother Project Assistant
Olivia Thomas Product Manager
Greg Thomason Crew
Vigon Nahas Vigon Art Direction, Design
Mike Wilson Project Assistant
Rory Wilson Reissue Design
Steve Woolard Reissue Producer


and yes, because Lindsey is NOT listed as a producer on Tusk while he did the work, while FM as a band is listed as a producer, band did give him "special thanks" for basically taking his producing credit.
I just sent you a pic of it on fb.

[Fannymac]

Good news elle. On my original copy of Tusk from 1979 it says: Produced by Lindsey Buckingham with Richard Dashut & Ken Calliet. And somewhere in it's liner notes it says: Special thanks from the Band to Lindsey Buckingham.

Yep, mine says the same thing!

[Macfan4life]

I am interested in this book. The summer is here and during traveling this summer this book and Howard Stern Comes Again are on the list.

[jbrownsjr]

I am interested in this book. The summer is here and during traveling this summer this book and Howard Stern Comes Again are on the list.

Comes Again has great interviews. Great read!

[elle]

Yep, mine says the same thing!

lol I doubt it. Homer just sent me a pic on fb. You guys are separating 1 statement into 2 sentences and splicing together parts that make a completely different meaning. What I wrote above in red is what it says on the original Tusk vinyl. LB does not have a producer credit on Tusk.

[elle]

this is what I recall it saying from the time of release, because LB commented later that he should have been listed as producer, not the lame "special thanks"

Yup, that’s what it says. So LB should be the one w axe to grind. Not the band and not Caillat. Maybe all those chiffs are correct and the guy is a saint considering all the bs his dear “friends” / band members put him through over decades and he was just taking it and when he dared to take a credit for his work he was immediately labeled as selfish prick or worse.

[sleepless child]

Thanks for finding this. I preordered it. I really liked Kens book on Rumours. I don't doubt that this will be as a good a read too.

[aleuzzi]

On every issue of TUSK that I own, which includes an original album pressing, a cassette, the first cd pressing, then the remastered and extended RHINO package, the language is this:

"Produced by Fleetwood Mac (special thanks from the band to Lindsey Buckingham) with Richard Dashut & Ken Caillat"

I do not know why anyone is suggesting otherwise. But it is clear from the TUSK doc and from all aural evidence that LB is the producer--with some creative assistance from Christine McVie and a lot of technical assistance from Dashut and Caillat.

[elle]

On every issue of TUSK that I own, which includes an original album pressing, a cassette, the first cd pressing, then the remastered and extended RHINO package, the language is this:

"Produced by Fleetwood Mac (special thanks from the band to Lindsey Buckingham) with Richard Dashut & Ken Caillat"

I do not know why anyone is suggesting otherwise. But it is clear from the TUSK doc and from all aural evidence that LB is the producer--with some creative assistance from Christine McVie and a lot of technical assistance from Dashut and Caillat.

maybe because some of her followers are as ditzy or as uncaring about any actual facts as the ignorant diva they are following? :shrug:

[aleuzzi]

maybe because some of her followers are as ditzy or as uncaring about any actual facts as the ignorant diva they are following? :shrug:

It would have to be a willing denial of printed matter. That is strange. I mean, I couldn’t care less how it was actually credited on the album but it was credited in a specific way.

[StevieandChris]

150 pages in and loving the book.

[Kyle]

In the book, Ken says that Lindsey "had a persecution complex fueled by the drugs that his girlfriend was feeding him."

Certainly, Carol wasn't responsible for Lindsey's weed of cocaine use. In fact, I seem to remember both Lindsey and Carol saying that he didn't use cocaine whenever he wasn't with Fleetwood Mac.

I wonder what drugs Ken is referring to. With FM, it seems like we always get somewhere between 1% and 10% of the whole story.

[michelej1]

In the book, Ken says that Lindsey "had a persecution complex fueled by the drugs that his girlfriend was feeding him."

Certainly, Carol wasn't responsible for Lindsey's weed of cocaine use. In fact, I seem to remember both Lindsey and Carol saying that he didn't use cocaine whenever he wasn't with Fleetwood Mac.

I wonder what drugs Ken is referring to. With FM, it seems like we always get somewhere between 1% and 10% of the whole story.

I seem to remember a Christine interview in the late eighties or early nineties where Christine said Lindsey was using weird drugs I think. But that was after Carol. I think Chris was talking about psychedelic drugs. Well, if she divulged that about him I guess I forgive him for telling the world she was “fragile”.

[Villavic]

http://images.45worlds.com/f/cd/fleetwood-mac-tusk-15-cd.jpg

The CD I got in the early 90s is like this. The Deluxe edition includes the special thanks, too.

[aleuzzi]

I seem to remember a Christine interview in the late eighties or early nineties where Christine said Lindsey was using weird drugs I think. But that was after Carol. I think Chris was talking about psychedelic drugs. Well, if she divulged that about him I guess I forgive him for telling the world she was “fragile”.

...and in the recent documentary on CM, she volunteers info on Bob Welch being a "heroin junkie" the whole time he was with FM--though she "had no idea about this at the time." I'm not sure if that is accurate. He certainly struggled with heroin addiction later, but not sure if it happened between 1971-74. Life in Benifols seemed pretty close-quarters so it would have been hard for him to hide that from the band.

I guess if Welch and Weston could divulge to the world her long-kept secret affair with Martin Birch, then she could be forgiven for sharing the heroin junkie info.

[aleuzzi]

http://images.45worlds.com/f/cd/fleetwood-mac-tusk-15-cd.jpg

The CD I got in the early 90s is like this. The Deluxe edition includes the special thanks, too.

Yeah--sometimes doubters need actual pictorial evidence.

[David]

Ken fictionalizes a lot of verbiage in the conversations in the Tusk book. I don’t have a problem with the fictionalizing as long as I trust the writer to nail the general spirit of the conversation, the day, or the experience (Stevie used to be very good at this in radio interviews). But in Ken’s case, it isn’t that I don’t trust him per se, it’s that I think he has developed a political perspective about the old Fleetwood Mac experiences over the years and wants to frame them his way. He has an agenda, whatever it is. So his conversations wind up sounding phony and mechanical. When someone’s pushing a narrative in a certain way, you get typos and non-facts, one right after the other. This is just from skimming the opening few pages on the Amazon preview:

“On September 16, 1978, construction began on our new custom-build studio on the edge of Santa Monica, a new addition to the renowned Village Recorder Studios, and by June, Studio D was complete.” [June 1979? The album was in mastering stage by then! When is chapter 1 actually set? It’s the band’s first day of recording in Studio D, which followed the 1978 tour, which ended late August.]

“Stevie had written it on the couch of Studio D, looking up from her journal occasionally and somehow ignoring Mick during the insanely long hours we spent in the control room.” [Hello? Is there any editor in the room? How could Stevie have written Storms at the Village Recorder when chapter 1 is about the band’s first day (or week) recording?]

“The next song on the tape was Sisters of the Moon, which I recalled from a few years back, written about her failing health on tour. The new voice-and-piano demo was depressing and not very exciting, but it would evolve into a rocker more like Gold Dust Woman. ‘That one’s gonna be ****ing great, Stevie!’ exclaimed Christine, an old rocker at heart, holding her cigarette in the same hand as her glass of burgundy. ‘We should play it live this summer. I’ll play the Rhodes on that.’ ” [Ken is really screwed up by now with his timeline. By the time the band convened at the Village to record, they had already toured and been playing Sisters of the Moon in concert. Stevie would have had no reason to demo it for the band at that point.]

“All of a sudden, Lindsey and Carol walked into the control room, looking as if they had been fighting. Most startling, though, was Lindsey’s extreme haircut. ‘Lindsey, what the hell did you do to your beautiful hair?’ Christine asked, clearly dumbfounded and anxious for his explanation.” [Christine toured with the clean-shaven Lindsey all summer in 1978 before recording started. The impulse to fabricate verbiage here has once again destroyed chronology and facts.]

[David]

Another boner a few sentences from where I left off reading:

“Then, he paused for declamatory effect, ‘I don’t want this to be another Rumours. I don’t want to make the same record twice like the Eagles did!’ ” [Lindsey is supposed to be referring here to The Long Run, which wasn’t released until September 1979, a few weeks prior to Tusk! He would have had no idea what was on the Eagles album as early as September 1978.]

[Villavic]

[The impulse to fabricate verbiage here has once again destroyed chronology and facts.]

After reading your post I thought this book will be exactly like watching Boheman Rhapsody movie. An exciting read! You will enjoy it a lot! But the timeline accuracy is a disaster. Do not take that into account or you will ruin the experience.

[HomerMcvie]

After reading your post I thought this book will be exactly like watching Boheman Rhapsody movie. An exciting read! You will enjoy it a lot! But the timeline accuracy is a disaster. Do not take that into account or you will ruin the experience.

Suspension of disbelief is difficult for many in this day and age.

[jbrownsjr]

You guys are full of it. Every word of this book happened exactly the way the two authors say it had. Same with Bohemian Rhapsody.

For example,

"Stevie had nothing to do because she was writing about Robin (yet again) in her journal. So she decided to make everyone peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. And because she and Christine got on so well, Stevie even remembered to stick a Marlboro Light in Christine's sandwich and even lit it for her."


Oh wait, Christine didn't start smoking Marlboro lights until 1983 during the making of her debut solo album in Switzerland, Great Britain and Los Angeles.

FAKE NEWS!!! :distress:

[Macfan4life]

I don't think this is the only book that's out of sequence. It was discussed in the Stevie forum how wrong the Wilson sisters were in their book about Heart stating Stevie did tons of coke with them on the Bad Animals tour. Well it was not 1987-88 but their 1985 Heart tour that this happened. People's memory gets foggy with timing.

[michelej1]

Chronology is one thing, but at some point you start to distrust events. When you get the things that are documented wrong, how can I believe what you supposedly witnessed when there is no corroborating evidence at all?

[jbrownsjr]

Chronology is one thing, but at some point you start to distrust events. When you get the things that are documented wrong, how can I believe what you supposedly witnessed when there is no collaborating evidence at all?

$tevie always gets her timeline's wrong. I think Christine at one point said she left after the Tango Tour. (Meaning, The Dance)

[aleuzzi]

What a disappointment. I would have forked over $ for this book because it is such an unusual record and Ken's first-hand insight should be illuminating.

That the book is marred by factually incorrect information and inaccurate timelines is just sad.

Sad. "Sometimes the most beautiful things pass us by."

[Kyle]

What a disappointment. I would have forked over $ for this book because it is such an unusual record and Ken's first-hand insight should be illuminating.

That the book is marred by factually incorrect information and inaccurate timelines is just sad.

Sad. "Sometimes the most beautiful things pass us by."
I think Ken had a hard time getting motivated to write this book. He signed the contract 2 1/2 years ago. I got the impression that he didn't get serious about working on it until some time early this year. I wasn't expecting it to ever be completed. Without Hernan, I'm doubtful it would have seen the light of day. It took longer than Rumours and Tusk combined.

It's probably not going to sell enough copies to justify hiring a good editor. Ken should have considered getting a few long term FM fans to proof read it.

[Kyle]

$tevie always gets her timeline's wrong. I think Christine at one point said she left after the Tango Tour. (Meaning, The Dance)

Didn't Lindsey once say he started Fritz when he was in college?

[jbrownsjr]

Didn't Lindsey once say he started Fritz when he was in college?

Now that I am getting into my older years. (to be fair)
I sometimes screw up my timeline. I don't really embellish, however.

With this book, it's nearly impossible for me to imagine remembering many of these dialogues. Unless, they have a recording of these instances and someone edited it in the wrong order. Could have some of the conversations been pulled from recordings and then he wrote from memories from those said convos?

That's all I got! :D

[cbBen]

Now that I am getting into my older years. (to be fair)
I sometimes screw up my timeline. I don't really embellish, however.

With this book, it's nearly impossible for me to imagine remembering many of these dialogues. Unless, they have a recording of these instances and someone edited it in the wrong order. Could have some of the conversations been pulled from recordings and then he wrote from memories from those said convos?

That's all I got! :D

In his book on working with the Beatles (highly recommended), engineer Geoff Emerick prefaces with a caveat along the lines of "These are not all literal quotes. I'm retelling the story as accurately as I can recall it, acknowledging the human error such an exercise inevitably entails, and at times putting things in quotes just to capture the gist of the conversations and of what took place."

[kak125]

Ken Caillat is the Los Angeles-based record producer and engineer for the Fleetwood Mac albums Rumours,Tusk, Mirage, Live and The Chain Box Set. He won a Grammy Award (Engineer, Mastering) for Rumours (1977 Album of the Year). Caillat has also worked on albums for Billy Idol, Frank Sinatra, Pat Benatar, Wilson Phillips, the Beach Boys, Herbie Hancock, David Becker and Alice Cooper, as well as Christine McVie on her solo album In the Meantime.

In 2012, he released his memoir on his experiences producing the 1977 Rumours album, called Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album. Then in 2019, he authored (with Hernan Rojas) Get Tusked: The Inside Story of Fleetwood Mac’s Most Anticipated Album, which gives a behind-the-scenes look at the making of the band’s epic, platinum-selling album Tusk.

“We were all working under duress with Lindsey saying if we didn’t do what he says, he was going to quit, and he was giving us no clear direction. We were almost in a prison camp for 12 months, I feel like.”

Caillat is the father of singer-songwriter Colbie Caillat, and he produced her albums Coco (2007), Breakthrough (2009), All of You (2011) and Christmas in the Sand (2012).

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Ken, why did you name the book Get Tusked?

Ken Caillat: Well, when we were making the album Tusk, somehow the band became very adolescent. Tusk was like a nickname for a male part. So there was all this talk about tusk, tusk, get tusked, and they were always giggling. I said, “What’s wrong with you guys? Are you guys seven-years-old?” At the very end of the record, they made t-shirts for everybody. I got one that said, “Get Tusked.” Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, everybody had the same t-shirt, “Get Tusked.” Get tusked basically means get screwed or screw you or go to hell or however you want to think about that

Smashing Interviews Magazine: It was a penis joke (laughs).

Ken Caillat: Exactly. That’s what I was wanting to say.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: You’ve said that making the album Rumours was a lot of work, pain and anguish, but where the partying started was with the making of Tusk.

Ken Caillat: Right, yes. Making Rumours was actually an experience of real enjoyment. The band were not superstars yet. They were still pretty much normal people. They could go out to dinner and not be recognized all the time. But for Tusk, they had already experienced the wealth of Rumours, and they all had their favorite champagne or liqueur or cocaine, and they all had somebody to do their bidding. I thought the band had grown up. But I was working with a band with a lot of politics and a lot of problems.

We were all working under duress with Lindsey saying if we didn’t do what he says, he was going to quit, and he was giving us no clear direction. We were almost in a prison camp for 12 months, I feel like. We were all sequestered in this room making a record that Lindsey Buckingham didn’t even know what kind he wanted to make. Lindsey thought he had fans that wanted him to be more aggressive, more punk. I think the most interesting part about it is that every one of his songs on the record are full of distortion, anger and just rebellion, while at the same time, if you listen to his work on the girls’ songs, there is some of the most beautiful guitar work he’s ever done. So I think that’s kind of a dichotomy.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Lindsey actually wanted Tusk to be darker than Rumours?

Ken Caillat: Right.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: And he didn’t ask for input from the band?

Ken Caillat: No. As a matter of fact, Lindsey built a little studio at home, so no one would have input. He was particularly annoyed with me. He was in love with me during Rumours because I made everything sound great. He loved how I made him sound. Then he turned on me. I think he decided that I must be the cause of him not being punk enough, aggressive enough.

On the first day we were getting sounds, he said to me, “Turn all the knobs in the opposite direction you’ve already got.” Lindsey knew that would just destroy his sound, and he wanted me to basically baseline the record on that. So I did. He didn’t give me much choice about it, but we made it very aggressive sounding. He would do things like lay a microphone on a tile floor, kneel over it and scream into it, scream as hard as he could into the microphone to distort. He did everything he could to make it as grunge as possible.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: There is a Beach Boys theme with Christine having a relationship with Dennis Wilson at the time and Lindsey being influenced by Pet Sounds during the making of the album.

Ken Caillat: Oh, yeah. If you listen to the background vocals on all of the girls’ songs like “Beautiful Child” and “Sisters of the Moon,” they’re very Beach Boy-esque. So he’s a genius at creating vocal harmonies and orchestrating them. We would sit at the piano, and Lindsey would play each of the notes that people were singing in chords, so then he would play the chord, and he would hear what the vocal sac would sound like when it’s played on the piano. We did that to make sure everyone is doing exactly the right thing. That’s exactly what Brian Wilson used to do with the Beach Boys. That part was very clever.

I want to give Lindsey so much credit for doing some of this. As I said toward the end of the book, in hindsight, I now realize what he was trying to do. I feel like if I were more mature and realized what was going on, we could’ve all walked up to him, given him a big hug and said, “Listen, we know you’re searching for something, and we’re going to give you as much space as you need so you can fly with it. We’ll help you as much as we can.” But he didn’t know how to ask for it, and we didn’t know he was asking for it.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: If Lindsey had explained his ideas in the beginning, there would have been a different process and atmosphere?

Ken Caillat: Right. I think part of it, too, was that cocaine was involved, and pot was involved. He smoked a lot of marijuana. He had a girlfriend who was really into cocaine more, and she was pushing him to be more aggressive. She said, “You need to start wearing eye makeup, color your hair and be more edgy.” So he kind of followed along, and I wanted it to be about the music. The music’s terrific, and it’s different, and it still survives after all these years.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Compared to 1977’s Rumours, which sold 10 million copies by February 1978, Tusk was considered to be a commercial failure by the label, selling 4 million copies. What was your prediction during the time you were producing it?

Ken Caillat: I thought we were going to get slaughtered. There were a couple of unfortunate circumstances. Back then, we had so many songs. At one point, I told Lindsey that they all wouldn’t fit on one record, and that if we kept doing this, we’d have to release a double record. He said, “Okay.” I said, “No. That’s not okay. It’s bad because double records sell for twice as much, and people don’t want to spend $16.00 for a record.” Records at Tower Records used to sell for $3.98 back then. So we all said to him, “Let’s do enough songs for a double record, but let’s put out two single records separately.”

Mick talked to the label and came back and said, “Okay. The record package is going to contain one album, and we’ll drop the next record six months later. When the record comes out, it’ll slide into the double album cover of the first one and complete the picture. So when both records are finally placed together in the same package, they will make a nice picture of something.” So we thought that was terrific. But when it came down to it, the record company got greedy in thinking how many records Rumours sold, so they said, “Why don’t we release it all at once?” So the record company changed their minds at the very end and released a double album instead of two singles.

Secondarily, we used to make cassettes for everybody every night, so they would take it home. Stevie was notoriously forgetful about where she put her cassettes. Anyway, on the day of the release, all the radio stations were about to play the new album, and somehow the RKO Radio Network had gotten a copy of the cassette from somebody and decided to play the album at midnight the night before. So all the radio stations thought we had given RKO an exclusive, and they refused to play the record. All everybody was playing was the controversial song “Tusk” that they decided to make the first single.

The buying public was faced with buying a double album, and the only song that they could hear was “Tusk” on the radio, and the double album would be $16.95 retail. The sales started off really slow until they fixed the radio station dilemma. When the radio stations started playing the nicer songs, people started warming up to it. But I think it would’ve sold for twice as much had it gone out the way I said.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What did you think the first single should’ve been?

Ken Caillat: Probably “Sisters of the Moon,” or one of Stevie’s or Christine’s songs. That’s what I thought.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Maybe “Sara”?

Ken Caillat: Yeah. “Sara” or a more up-tempo song would’ve been “Think About Me” because usually you want to lead off with an up-tempo song, and “Sara” is too long. We tried to edit that song down, but it was still over four minutes, and the norm was kind of a three-minute single. But again, the label said, “No. We’re just going to go for the money. Let’s release a double record.” So the weird “Tusk” was released as the first single. It didn’t make a lot of sense. I thought having “Tusk” as the first single was the biggest mistake that we made.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Many people speculate that the song “Tusk” was about sex.

Ken Caillat: It’s not about anything. It’s just stupid. The road crew used to just sit there and giggle, and Lindsey would get all excited that he made the road crew giggle. He thought he was one of the guys. It’s not the first single. Maybe it’s somewhere down the line, you know. We had to solve a lot of technical problems to make that record like the live horns in Dodger Stadium.

I came to the stadium in a recording truck and said, “Okay. Here’s all the mics. You guys stand in front of these mics, trumpets stand over here.” They go, “Wait a minute! We’re a marching band.” I said, “Yeah?” They said, “We don’t play unless we march.” I said, “No. Stand in place and march.” They said, “No. We can’t do that. We have to move.” I said, “So how do I make my microphones move?” It was hysterical. I had to figure out how to record a marching band that had to march. Anyway, the double record and the “Tusk” lead off were the biggest mistakes.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What is your relationship with the rest of Fleetwood Mac?

Ken Caillat: Well, I have a relationship with Mick. The band was not really high tech, so they don’t keep their same phone numbers and emails, and I don’t have any way of connecting with Stevie. Stevie’s got a big entourage of people that are paid to protect her from strangers, and I would be considered a stranger in their eyes. The last time I talked to Christine, we were good. I produced a record for her in 2005. But I talk to John. I talk to Mick. I wish John a happy birthday every year, so I think I’m fine with everybody.

I’d probably be fine with Lindsey if I ever saw him. But he’s just got so much hatred now with the band for firing him when he’s the one that brought it on himself. He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”

Smashing Interviews Magazine: And along came Neil Finn.

Ken Caillat: Right, and he was the solution.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: So no one thinks Lindsey may rejoin the band in the future after a reconciliation?

Ken Caillat: Well, Lindsey had a heart attack, and they apparently damaged his vocal chords. I don’t know anything, but people I know who are very close to him don’t know whether he’s able to sing anymore. It’s too bad. Lindsey was a very angry man, and I believe he still is. Most of my comments about Lindsey are based on when I knew him.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Of course. What’s going on with you now, Ken?

Ken Caillat: I’m still making music. I have a company called ArtistMax, and we try to develop young artists. We try to provide a pathway to stardom and avoid most of the speed bumps in Hollywood, so we try to give the artists the tools for a successful career. I tell them that it’s a lot easier if you get your vocal lessons, learn to play an instrument and get allyour fundamental stuff. It makes it so much easier.

Most artists, when they try to find their paths, make a number of mistakes. They may have to change their minds and directions a number of times, and by the time their may be ready to make it in the business, they’re almost 30 years old. So ArtistMax can take off about 10 years of that path. We put them together with choreographers, vocal coaches, songwriters and publishing attorneys so they learn the ins and outs of the business. That’s what we do. I’m looking for new artists and working with new artists. I feel very fortunate to be able to still be making music with the best of them.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: How’s Colbie and her band Gone West?

Ken Caillat: Colbie’s great. I think she was very brave to leave her successful solo career to create a career with a group. The reality is she’s not the boss anymore. It’s not a one-man band. She’s now one of four people, and I think she’s having a little bit of a challenge to be a team player. But she’s writing great songs.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Will you be helping her plan a wedding in the near future?

Ken Caillat: She’s been engaged for 10 years to her fiancée Justin Young. She said that she has no plans on getting married and that if she decides to get married, she doesn’t want a big church wedding and might even elope.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Whatever makes you happy is what I always say.

Ken Caillat: Yeah. That’s all I care about. I just want her happy.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Is there anything you’d like to add about Get Tusked?

Ken Caillat: I’m always concerned that I’m maybe too negative. I certainly want to say that people should read it if they want to know how real records are made. Fleetwood Mac were ultimate professionals. As professionals, they had to solve a lot of problems on the fly, and many bands have issues.

Each of the Fleetwood Mac songs are usually about one or the other band members, usually about breaking up and usually hurtful. That was something I never realized until I wrote the books. So these artists are listening to their counterpart saying something negative about them every day and trying to sing pretty harmonies to it. I respect Fleetwood Mac for the job. It’s just like if you go to work with different people. You may not like everybody, but you’ve got to get along with them.

Making this record was a labor of love, especially with the girls. They cared very much about what they did, and Lindsey was a big enough guy to display some of his most beautiful music onto their music. So I’m going to say to read the book if you want to know how Fleetwood Mac makes records.

https://smashinginterviews.com/interviews/authors/ken-caillat-interview-fleetwood-mac-producer-says-lindsey-made-the-making-of-tusk-a-nightmare

[aleuzzi]

Wow--Ken has a real beef with Lindsey. So much so that his point of view sounds distorted. Or, as he says, "too negative."

He's bought into the initial story about Lindsey being fired for wanting to delay the tour by one year, which we now know is false. Has he learned that was false and is just holding onto that excuse because it serves his purposes?

This section of the interview is awful and fascinating:

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What did you think the first single should’ve been?

Ken Caillat: Probably “Sisters of the Moon,” or one of Stevie’s or Christine’s songs. That’s what I thought.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Maybe “Sara”?

Ken Caillat: Yeah. “Sara” or a more up-tempo song would’ve been “Think About Me” because usually you want to lead off with an up-tempo song, and “Sara” is too long. We tried to edit that song down, but it was still over four minutes, and the norm was kind of a three-minute single. But again, the label said, “No. We’re just going to go for the money. Let’s release a double record.” So the weird “Tusk” was released as the first single. It didn’t make a lot of sense. I thought having “Tusk” as the first single was the biggest mistake that we made.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Many people speculate that the song “Tusk” was about sex.

Ken Caillat: It’s not about anything. It’s just stupid. The road crew used to just sit there and giggle, and Lindsey would get all excited that he made the road crew giggle. He thought he was one of the guys. It’s not the first single. Maybe it’s somewhere down the line, you know. We had to solve a lot of technical problems to make that record like the live horns in Dodger Stadium.

I came to the stadium in a recording truck and said, “Okay. Here’s all the mics. You guys stand in front of these mics, trumpets stand over here.” They go, “Wait a minute! We’re a marching band.” I said, “Yeah?” They said, “We don’t play unless we march.” I said, “No. Stand in place and march.” They said, “No. We can’t do that. We have to move.” I said, “So how do I make my microphones move?” It was hysterical. I had to figure out how to record a marching band that had to march. Anyway, the double record and the “Tusk” lead off were the biggest mistakes.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What is your relationship with the rest of Fleetwood Mac?

Ken Caillat: Well, I have a relationship with Mick. The band was not really high tech, so they don’t keep their same phone numbers and emails, and I don’t have any way of connecting with Stevie. Stevie’s got a big entourage of people that are paid to protect her from strangers, and I would be considered a stranger in their eyes. The last time I talked to Christine, we were good. I produced a record for her in 2005. But I talk to John. I talk to Mick. I wish John a happy birthday every year, so I think I’m fine with everybody.

I’d probably be fine with Lindsey if I ever saw him. But he’s just got so much hatred now with the band for firing him when he’s the one that brought it on himself. He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”

There's a lot to unpack here.

1. I always thought having "Tusk" be the lead single was an instance of genius AND deliberate sabotage. It made total sense to issue the strangest song on the record as the lead single, a song with sexual overtones that ultimately doesn't mean anything but has a lot of character. A song that is as iconic as GYOW in its own way.

2. I never heard of the initial plan to stagger the release of the two discs, so that the second of the two would come later and fit into the packaging that came with the first disc. Interesting and ultimately problematic--how many people would have declined to buy the second disc? If I were one of the songwriters, I wouldn't want half of my material in limbo with the hope that the initial purchasers would complete the purchase down the line. Moreover, how would the two discs have been reviewed? Would Rolling Stone, for example, devote equal space to both discs. As an artist, I wouldn't want to take that chance. I'm glad WB got greedy and issued both at the same time. This makes TUSK the excessive, spectacular success/failure it is.

3. "The road crew used to just sit there and giggle, and Lindsey would get all excited that he made the road crew giggle. He thought he was one of the guys.--Ken is suggesting that the road crew were laughing AT not with Lindsey. Even if this were true, why would he want to bring this up? It's hurtful. And anyway, time has shown that Lindsey was RIGHT. We're still talking about TUSK in 2019 because it is what it is.

4. "I’d probably be fine with Lindsey if I ever saw him. But he’s just got so much hatred now with the band for firing him when he’s the one that brought it on himself."--clearly Ken would NOT be fine with Lindsey if he ever saw him. He still has a lot of anger over him and lashes out by saying spiteful things.

Of course I enjoyed reading this, but I enjoyed reading this the way I might enjoy the bitchy private camera testimony of a SURVIVOR contestant who may or may not be delusional and is smack-talking the others who have a greater chance of winning the game.

Mind you: I have a lot of respect for Ken's work. I really enjoyed how he made IN THE MEANTIME sound and credit him for helping Dan Perfect allow Christine to sound as great as she did on that solo effort. I also think he probably has a real basis for claiming that working with Lindsey was traumatic--or at least exceptionally difficult. But....But.

[jbrownsjr]

Tony ^^^^ You are 100% spot on.

[bombaysaffires]

Wow--Ken has a real beef with Lindsey. So much so that his point of view sounds distorted. Or, as he says, "too negative."

He's bought into the initial story about Lindsey being fired for wanting to delay the tour by one year, which we now know is false. Has he learned that was false and is just holding onto that excuse because it serves his purposes?

This section of the interview is awful and fascinating:

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What did you think the first single should’ve been?

Ken Caillat: Probably “Sisters of the Moon,” or one of Stevie’s or Christine’s songs. That’s what I thought.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Maybe “Sara”?

Ken Caillat: Yeah. “Sara” or a more up-tempo song would’ve been “Think About Me” because usually you want to lead off with an up-tempo song, and “Sara” is too long. We tried to edit that song down, but it was still over four minutes, and the norm was kind of a three-minute single. But again, the label said, “No. We’re just going to go for the money. Let’s release a double record.” So the weird “Tusk” was released as the first single. It didn’t make a lot of sense. I thought having “Tusk” as the first single was the biggest mistake that we made.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: Many people speculate that the song “Tusk” was about sex.

Ken Caillat: It’s not about anything. It’s just stupid. The road crew used to just sit there and giggle, and Lindsey would get all excited that he made the road crew giggle. He thought he was one of the guys. It’s not the first single. Maybe it’s somewhere down the line, you know. We had to solve a lot of technical problems to make that record like the live horns in Dodger Stadium.

I came to the stadium in a recording truck and said, “Okay. Here’s all the mics. You guys stand in front of these mics, trumpets stand over here.” They go, “Wait a minute! We’re a marching band.” I said, “Yeah?” They said, “We don’t play unless we march.” I said, “No. Stand in place and march.” They said, “No. We can’t do that. We have to move.” I said, “So how do I make my microphones move?” It was hysterical. I had to figure out how to record a marching band that had to march. Anyway, the double record and the “Tusk” lead off were the biggest mistakes.

Smashing Interviews Magazine: What is your relationship with the rest of Fleetwood Mac?

Ken Caillat: Well, I have a relationship with Mick. The band was not really high tech, so they don’t keep their same phone numbers and emails, and I don’t have any way of connecting with Stevie. Stevie’s got a big entourage of people that are paid to protect her from strangers, and I would be considered a stranger in their eyes. The last time I talked to Christine, we were good. I produced a record for her in 2005. But I talk to John. I talk to Mick. I wish John a happy birthday every year, so I think I’m fine with everybody.

I’d probably be fine with Lindsey if I ever saw him. But he’s just got so much hatred now with the band for firing him when he’s the one that brought it on himself. He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”

There's a lot to unpack here.

1. I always thought having "Tusk" be the lead single was an instance of genius AND deliberate sabotage. It made total sense to issue the strangest song on the record as the lead single, a song with sexual overtones that ultimately doesn't mean anything but has a lot of character. A song that is as iconic as GYOW in its own way.

2. I never heard of the initial plan to stagger the release of the two discs, so that the second of the two would come later and fit into the packaging that came with the first disc. Interesting and ultimately problematic--how many people would have declined to buy the second disc? If I were one of the songwriters, I wouldn't want half of my material in limbo with the hope that the initial purchasers would complete the purchase down the line. Moreover, how would the two discs have been reviewed? Would Rolling Stone, for example, devote equal space to both discs. As an artist, I wouldn't want to take that chance. I'm glad WB got greedy and issued both at the same time. This makes TUSK the excessive, spectacular success/failure it is.

3. "The road crew used to just sit there and giggle, and Lindsey would get all excited that he made the road crew giggle. He thought he was one of the guys.--Ken is suggesting that the road crew were laughing AT not with Lindsey. Even if this were true, why would he want to bring this up? It's hurtful. And anyway, time has shown that Lindsey was RIGHT. We're still talking about TUSK in 2019 because it is what it is.

4. "I’d probably be fine with Lindsey if I ever saw him. But he’s just got so much hatred now with the band for firing him when he’s the one that brought it on himself."--clearly Ken would NOT be fine with Lindsey if he ever saw him. He still has a lot of anger over him and lashes out by saying spiteful things.

Of course I enjoyed reading this, but I enjoyed reading this the way I might enjoy the bitchy private camera testimony of a SURVIVOR contestant who may or may not be delusional and is smack-talking the others who have a greater chance of winning the game.

Mind you: I have a lot of respect for Ken's work. I really enjoyed how he made IN THE MEANTIME sound and credit him for helping Dan Perfect allow Christine to sound as great as she did on that solo effort. I also think he probably has a real basis for claiming that working with Lindsey was traumatic--or at least exceptionally difficult. But....But.

yes, agree with most of this comment.

THere's such a weird mix of contradictions in everything he says. He starts off saying basically what a dictator Lindsey was and then five minutes later that LB was a genius. And both those things can be true (and maybe probably were). But he doesn't say it with that sort of detached perspective one gets after a lot of time has passed; he says it like he's still living it now. And it's been 40 farking years! It's also weirdly passive aggressive in that he has all this anger at LB but you get the very real feeling if LB actually called him and said "hey thanks for what you did on the album" Ken would get all soppy and happy and suddenly have interviews about how great LB is. He so desperately wants a hug from Lindsey that he just isn't going to ever get. And it still sticks in his craw. His vicarious thrill at LB getting fired is creepy.

The problem with Ken, and to an extent Richard also (though Richard came into the band with S&L and had a much closer personal connection to them esp to LB) is they think *they* were members of the band. Like Ken talking about the WB decisions on how to market the album and saying "we"... that putting it out as a double album was the big mistake WE made. He didn't make it. He was hired to do a job in the studio. He wasn't in any position to make decisions about how to manage or market the band.

He has MEGA issues about Lindsey and just spews them all over the place. THEN STOP WRITING AND TALKING ABOUT HIM FFS. Very weird. Maybe some therapy would help. And he seems to have some sour feelings about Stevie but is more careful how he says it, and makes it more like it's the fault of the people around her, who keep her from people. I immediately read a lot of that as Karen, but you know, if Stevie wanted to talk to you, she could. People like to forget that stars often hire people to be the "bad cop" so they can seem like the "good cop" but really the bad cop is just doing what they were hired to do.
Stevie does come off like someone who lives in a very small bubble and has for a long time. But she chose that.

Not everyone who works together stays best friends. In real life I've worked with people that I was close to coz I saw them everyday and a big part of the bond was that we were in the same place dealing with the same sh*t every day. Once one of us left to go to work somewhere else, it got harder to maintain that same relationship; we were dealing with different daily realities etc. I'm still friendly with them but not close friends, as most of the stuff we shared together is in the past. I don't know why this is so hard for Ken to deal with. I think maybe because he doesn't feel he ever got I dunno properly acknowledged somehow by the band for his contributions? Listen, he got paid and still gets those royalties. Get over it already.

[kak125]

I just read this comment Ken posted on fb. He must be getting a lot of **** for that interview:

“This is the last thing I’m going to say about this I don’t hate Lindsey and he doesn’t hate me it was just a job, my job was to make the best record I could for Fleetwood Mac, his job is to push the envelope as far as he could. I guess I was the envelope
I was trying to tell a story about how one of the greatest records ever made was made. I went on to make three more records with them. Lindsey is a great musical genius!”

[aleuzzi]

I just read this comment Ken posted on fb. He must be getting a lot of **** for that interview:

“This is the last thing I’m going to say about this I don’t hate Lindsey and he doesn’t hate me it was just a job, my job was to make the best record I could for Fleetwood Mac, his job is to push the envelope as far as he could. I guess I was the envelope
I was trying to tell a story about how one of the greatest records ever made was made. I went on to make three more records with them. Lindsey is a great musical genius!”

I don't buy it. He is clearly pissed at Lindsey. And Lindsey clearly had problems with him, or he would have asked him back to work on TANGO, which he did not.

[cbBen]

I don't buy it. He is clearly pissed at Lindsey. And Lindsey clearly had problems with him, or he would have asked him back to work on TANGO, which he did not.

1. Ken gave one of the two speeches (at 2:00) when Lindsey won the Les Paul Award in 2011, so the antipathy can't be all that deep seated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-43mtTVBA

2. As he's explained elsewhere, between Mirage and Tango Lindsey learned to engineer, which rendered Ken redundant and no longer needed. Don't know whether that's truly the reason for his lack of involvement, but it at least makes sense.

[bombaysaffires]

1. Ken gave one of the two speeches (at 2:00) when Lindsey won the Les Paul Award in 2011, so the antipathy can't be all that deep seated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-43mtTVBA

2. As he's explained elsewhere, between Mirage and Tango Lindsey learned to engineer, which rendered Ken redundant and no longer needed. Don't know whether that's truly the reason for his lack of involvement, but it at least makes sense.

I always found that whole exchange between the two of them at that award ceremony pretty painful. It is polite but sure doesn't scream warm and fuzzy. Pretty stiff and awkward.

[FuzzyPlum]

'...He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”


What a complete sh!t Ken is turning out to be. He's gone right down hill in my estimation.
'...Delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half'.
It's now up to a year and a half? Any takers for 2 years???? Where did a year and a half come from? Mick? John?

'...You've pulled that trick one too many times'.
When has he ever pulled that trick? Ken may be referencing Lindsey threatening to do a solo record at the time of Tusk, but I don't recall him ever threatening to quit if they refused to allow him to do a solo record and tour.

'...His solo records never sell anything'....you d!ck Ken. Shut up!

[FuzzyPlum]

I always found that whole exchange between the two of them at that award ceremony pretty painful. It is polite but sure doesn't scream warm and fuzzy. Pretty stiff and awkward.

Always felt the same.

[cbBen]

"I went on to make three more records with them.”

Live, Mirage, and ??? (audio for the Mirage tour video? In The Meantime?)?

[cbBen]

'...You've pulled that trick one too many times'.

When has he ever pulled that trick? Ken may be referencing Lindsey threatening to do a solo record at the time of Tusk, but I don't recall him ever threatening to quit if they refused to allow him to do a solo record and tour

Recall from the Destiny Rules documentary that Lindsey threatened to take his ball (or at least his best songs) and go home if the band didn't agree to make Say You Will a double album. At the very least, he stamped his feet and used other emotionally manipulative tactics to lobby for that outcome.

Also–and for the record I think he was totally reasonable in doing so–by his own acknowledgement after the Say You Will tour he insisted (maybe "asked" is more accurate) that the band give him four uninterrupted years off to do two solo albums and tours.

And finally, while we don't know what ultimatums Lindsey may have made in the climactic fight excluded from Destiny Rules, Ken (being friends with Mick) may well.

[bombaysaffires]

Recall from the Destiny Rules documentary that Lindsey threatened to take his ball (or at least his best songs) and go home if the band didn't agree to make Say You Will a double album. At the very least, he stamped his feet and used other emotionally manipulative tactics to lobby for that outcome.

Also–and for the record I think he was totally reasonable in doing so–by his own acknowledgement after the Say You Will tour he insisted (maybe "asked" is more accurate) that the band give him four uninterrupted years off to do two solo albums and tours.

And finally, while we don't know what ultimatums Lindsey may have made in the climactic fight excluded from Destiny Rules, Ken (being friends with Mick) may well.

and the various threats made by Stevie over the years to either not participate or to publicly trash band projects if she didn't get her way.:nod:

I have to think the BuckVie project really pushed her over the edge.

[elle]

'...He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”


in that whole interview Ken comes across as a person who is kept out of the loop trying to look like he’s still at least somewhat in the loop - and therefore making stuff up when asked questions, so he can give that impression.

he doesn't have answers so he makes them up. he admits hasn't talked to Lindsey in ages, but he seems to have a lot of pent up bitterness and anger towards him (how many times has he brought up that story of Lindsey chopping his hair off while the rest of them were still stuck in the long hair era? :lol: that seemed to have really riled up Ken!). so on the basis of Lindsey's behavior 40 years ago, he decided that Lindsey still must be the same angry young man, and full of hatred? although apparently he knows better - that if he did run into Lindsey, that unlike Ken, Lindsey doesn't hold any grudge towards him so they would get along.

it's also in the vein of what David noted earlier - Ken is pretty obviously making up the whole conversations to suit the pictures in his head. at the time of Lindsey's firing, Ken posted a comment on facebook that someone from FM entourage gave him Mick / CBS story of what happened (even though many fans already knew better at the time, guess we had better contacts!). Ken seems to still be sticking with that tour delay story, even though it has been debunked in the meantime (through the lawsuit, no less!), and even Mick is not pushing it anymore. meanwhile Ken made up the whole conversation (see quote above) on top of that story!

pretty weird!

[elle]

yI'm still friendly with them but not close friends, as most of the stuff we shared together is in the past. I don't know why this is so hard for Ken to deal with. I think maybe because he doesn't feel he ever got I dunno properly acknowledged somehow by the band for his contributions? Listen, he got paid and still gets those royalties. Get over it already.

i think you might be putting your finger on something here:

Ken was credited as a producer for Rumours and Tusk and is getting all the royalties. Lindsey is not credited and is not getting those producing royalties. however, it seems that all music insiders know who was really the producer there. there is a recent podcast with Rob Cavallo, where he says something to that effect - everybody knows that Lindsey was the real producer there. so maybe that's what is Ken's problem? not getting the respect of his peers.


i also find it interesting how he projects some supposed technical ineptness as a reasoning why band members are not in contact with him. yet we know Christine has no problem using phone and social media, and Lindsey has been doing everything using his phone for like a decade now.

[sue]

I think Ken is just angry that Lindsey never said....we’ll done Ken...we made a great record.
He just wants Lindsey to say thanks, that’s all.
He still loves and admires Lindsey but just wants his thanks.

[aleuzzi]

1. Ken gave one of the two speeches (at 2:00) when Lindsey won the Les Paul Award in 2011, so the antipathy can't be all that deep seated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4-43mtTVBA

2. As he's explained elsewhere, between Mirage and Tango Lindsey learned to engineer, which rendered Ken redundant and no longer needed. Don't know whether that's truly the reason for his lack of involvement, but it at least makes sense.

Ken once said in his Q&A on this site that he wasn't asked back to work on TANGO because of a musical argument with Lindsey.

[aleuzzi]

I think Ken is just angry that Lindsey never said....we’ll done Ken...we made a great record.
He just wants Lindsey to say thanks, that’s all.
He still loves and admires Lindsey but just wants his thanks.

Insulting him and saying mean-spirited things about him interviews is not the way to go about this.

[jbrownsjr]

Ken once said in his Q&A on this site that he wasn't asked back to work on TANGO because of a musical argument with Lindsey.

He personally told me that he opted to not do Tango. (I'm serious) So he made it seem like it was his choice.

[jbrownsjr]

Ken really loves LB, he just has a really strange way of showing it.

Maybe he hates Christine because he really gives her huge props in the book (s).

[lovethemac1]

Here's my thoughts on "Get Tusked" (which I read):

1. Ken is an alpha male personality, seen by his comments about women and their physical attributes, and how these please him. He came across as rather shallow.
2. He is obsessed with the sounds of the album, being in control of that.
3. He REALLY likes to be in control.
4. Lindsey butted heads with him, not allowing him to be 100% in control.
5. Richard was far easier going, and got along with the band on a personal level, better than Ken. This maybe annoyed Ken?
6. As much as I don't mind grammatical mistakes, they really aren't a huge deal, one would think that purchasing a book would ensure that someone read the thing to edit and correct grammar. I noticed more than I ever have in a book previously (not to say that I don't have grammatical errors in my posts, but they aren't in a book form).

He annoyed me occasionally in this book, more than in the Rumours one.

However, this interview annoyed me beyond belief. What an idiot. I hope he is experiencing backlash online from it.
He is spouting incorrect things, showing he doesn't know the whole story.
He comes across as scrambling to tell some juicy information, but doesn't know s**t. Like some teenager wanting to be part of the group, but not part of the group, and trying RREEEEAAAALLLLL hard to be part of the group.

Maybe he was just jealous of Richard's relationship with Lindsey? Or jealous of Richards gentler personality?

[David]

Maybe he was just jealous of Richard's relationship with Lindsey? Or jealous of Richards gentler personality?There seems to be a personality clash with Lindsey and Ken. I think all the behavioral motives we’ve all proffered are strong possibilities for their estrangement. But I also think there’s a profound aesthetic or musical difference between the two, which happens to remind me of the musical difference between Lindsey and Stevie. Ken’s idea of a great rock song is Hot Blooded by Foreigner. Lindsey’s, not even close. It may seem reductive to some of you, but Foreigner seems emblematic of Ken’s aesthetic: radio-friendly, mainstream, “safe.” These aren’t driving factors in Lindsey’s art. Ken’s ex post facto musical concerns seem to boil down quite often to “I was right, it wasn’t a hit—radio didn’t like it.” It’s exactly the sort of opinion that Lindsey would have had no truck with, the sort of opinion that he spent his career either avoiding or confronting—in Mick, in Christine, in Stevie, in other musicians, in music execs, in the undiscerning public. When Ken writes about Lindsey—it’s been true for some time—he’s mordant and dismissive, as if he wanted to knock the “genius” off his high horse.

I’m going out on a limb here, but if Ken shared Lindsey’s much more adventurous tastes—if from the beginning he loved the Clash and the Talking Heads and the Ramones instead of Foreigner, and if he had been willing to view Fleetwood Mac in a bolder, riskier musical role—their working relationship from 1982 on might have been really different.

[bombaysaffires]

There seems to be a personality clash with Lindsey and Ken. I think all the behavioral motives we’ve all proffered are strong possibilities for their estrangement. But I also think there’s a profound aesthetic or musical difference between the two, which happens to remind me of the musical difference between Lindsey and Stevie. Ken’s idea of a great rock song is Hot Blooded by Foreigner. Lindsey’s, not even close. It may seem reductive to some of you, but Foreigner seems emblematic of Ken’s aesthetic: radio-friendly, mainstream, “safe.” These aren’t driving factors in Lindsey’s art. Ken’s ex post facto musical concerns seem to boil down quite often to “I was right, it wasn’t a hit—radio didn’t like it.” It’s exactly the sort of opinion that Lindsey would have had no truck with, the sort of opinion that he spent his career either avoiding or confronting—in Mick, in Christine, in Stevie, in other musicians, in music execs, in the undiscerning public. When Ken writes about Lindsey—it’s been true for some time—he’s mordant and dismissive, as if he wanted to knock the “genius” off his high horse.

I’m going out on a limb here, but if Ken shared Lindsey’s much more adventurous tastes—if from the beginning he loved the Clash and the Talking Heads and the Ramones instead of Foreigner, and if he had been willing to view Fleetwood Mac in a bolder, riskier musical role—their working relationship from 1982 on might have been really different.

but he didn't, and he got fired, or just wasn't re-hired for subsequent work. That's how producing works, Ken, so get over it already. It's also like he seems to think the rest of the band was more on his side (musically, in the way you describe). I mean we know Stevie's been way more about sales figures than art in her solo career and Mick would have done Rumours 2, Rumours 3, Rumours 4 and so on. And Ken would have been happy with that too. It's like Ken blames Lindsey for somehow.....denying him his rightful place as the ongoing architect of FM's sound. I'm sure he sees Christine turning to him for her last solo album as confirmation of how much everyone else in the band was on his side. It was just that pesky SOB Lindsey who messed it all up.:distress:

[aleuzzi]

Ken really loves LB, he just has a really strange way of showing it.

Maybe he hates Christine because he really gives her huge props in the book (s).

Hilarious!

And that is interesting re: TANGO. I remember specifically him saying he wasn't asked back because he got into a musical argument with Lindsey. But if he told you otherwise, well, then, there's that same ole' I do/I don't thing going on with him...

[aleuzzi]

but he didn't, and he got fired, or just wasn't re-hired for subsequent work. That's how producing works, Ken, so get over it already.

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

[bombaysaffires]

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

yes. John's playing grounds so many of Stevie's songs especially and gives them a depth they wouldn't otherwise have. I mean, the first couple bars of Dreams and you know what it is from that bass line and drums.
His playing makes Angel a thousand times more than what it is when she does it solo and the focus is on the keyboards. Rhiannon it goes without saying.

THat's my biggest bone of contention with LB's production. He slowly pushed the rhythm section further and further down in the mix. Even some of Chris's playing too.

[dreamsunwind]

Ken really loves LB, he just has a really strange way of showing it.



I actually agree with this, I’m not much of a Ken fan because the way he speaks about the band is always kinda condescending and weird but I’ve always gotten the vibe that to him, Lindsey was by a mile the most ~significant member of the band and he had the most admiration for him. If you ask him any general question about the band he just ends up talking about Lindsey. Almost like a slight fixation lol. But yeah he certainly has a weird way of showing it.

[cbBen]

THat's my biggest bone of contention with LB's production. He slowly pushed the rhythm section further and further down in the mix. Even some of Chris's playing too.

It's hard to disagree with this. At some point, they started sounding less like a band and more like Lindsey's toolkit. Don't get me wrong, I love the results. But on Say You Will, for example, Mick's drumming doesn't seem to be the same kind of essential ingredient as on the albums from the seventies.

One thing that helped puncture my "Lindsey's the greatest producer on planet earth" bubble was hearing the TISL outtake version of "Thrown Down." I found myself astounded to wonder, "Could this be better than the version Lindsey produced"? It's a rare instance where we have an A-to-B comparison of how two different producers handle the same song; and the Lindsey-produced version, while perhaps better (I don't feel strongly one way or the other), is in any case not a clear far-and-away improvement.

[michelej1]

I think Ken is just angry that Lindsey never said....we’ll done Ken...we made a great record.
He just wants Lindsey to say thanks, that’s all.
He still loves and admires Lindsey but just wants his thanks.

That reminds me of the whole SYW thing where Lindsey was whining that Stevie never thanked him. I was like, “Oh, Linds, please stop.”

[michelej1]

Maybe he was just jealous of Richard's relationship with Lindsey? Or jealous of Richards gentler personality?

I think he is and that Lindsey has a certain personal loyalty to Richard that he in no way feels towards Ken. Ken is resentful. Look at all the years Lindsey and Richard lived together. I can tell you he and Ken wouldn’t make it in the same abode for 2 weeks,

[michelej1]

I’d be full of anger and residual hate if Lindsey had NOT cut his hair.

[elle]

One thing that helped puncture my "Lindsey's the greatest producer on planet earth" bubble was hearing the TISL outtake version of "Thrown Down." I found myself astounded to wonder, "Could this be better than the version Lindsey produced"? It's a rare instance where we have an A-to-B comparison of how two different producers handle the same song; and the Lindsey-produced version, while perhaps better (I don't feel strongly one way or the other), is in any case not a clear far-and-away improvement.

weren't people here saying that BOTH those versions were arranged and produced by Lindsey? and most seem to like TISL (was it wall of sound?) version better?

SYW version sounds to me like it was produced by Ken, tbh (it's not).

[cbBen]

weren't people here saying that BOTH those versions were arranged and produced by Lindsey?

This would be news to me. I'd love to know.

They are so different, but maybe that's due to the mix rather than to the production.

Lindsey may made the wrong call by going with Needham over Lord-Alge to mix Say You Will. The reason he gives in Destiny Rules (that Lord-Alge, being so in demand, works too quickly) does not make sense. It does not follow that someone will do a better job just because they take longer to do it. Maybe Lord-Alge being in demand is a sign that he does good work, regardless of how quickly he does it.

[elle]

This would be news to me. I'd love to know.

They are so different, but maybe that's due to the mix rather than to the production.

Lindsey may made the wrong call by going with Needham over Lord-Alge to mix Say You Will. The reason he gives in Destiny Rules (that Lord-Alge, being so in demand, works too quickly) does not make sense. It does not follow that someone will do a better job just because they take longer to do it. Maybe Lord-Alge being in demand is a sign that he does good work, regardless of how quickly he does it.

i think DR may paint a distorted picture of these 2 engineers. they are both incredibly accomplished and have tons of work under their belt, especially Needham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Needham (he mixed/produced breakthrough albums by The Killers, Imagine Dragons, and Walk the Moon, among many others, his discography is impressive)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lord-Alge (he mixed American Idiot by Green Day)

i think what's under the surface of that argument is your regular push-pull between Stevie and Lindsey - Needham is Lindsey's pick, he has been working with him continuously before and after (he mixed BuckVie and i believe Solo Anthology, most recently), while Lord-Alge is Stevie's pick, she has worked with him a lot. Lindsey =was a producer and wanted someone whose work he liked and was in sync with. Stevie wanted leverage against Lindsey so she wanted her guy. the rest are all excuses.

[sleepless child]

I don't care for the Tusk book as much as I liked the Rumours book. Tusk seems rushed. No photos and yes I noticed the timeline difference also.

His comments in the interview are pretty bad. It sounds like since he talks to Mick and John, that he is on the Mick bandwagon when it comes to Lindsey.

It sounds like everything that Stevie said. According to one of Ken's post's, he claimed Stevie told Lindsey, why do a solo album, it won't sell anyway. I feel really bad for Lindsey, talk about beating someone when they are down.

[cbBen]

i think DR may paint a distorted picture of these 2 engineers. they are both incredibly accomplished and have tons of work under their belt, especially Needham:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Needham (he mixed/produced breakthrough albums by The Killers, Imagine Dragons, and Walk the Moon, among many others, his discography is impressive)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Lord-Alge (he mixed American Idiot by Green Day)

i think what's under the surface of that argument is your regular push-pull between Stevie and Lindsey - Needham is Lindsey's pick, he has been working with him continuously before and after (he mixed BuckVie and i believe Solo Anthology, most recently), while Lord-Alge is Stevie's pick, she has worked with him a lot. Lindsey =was a producer and wanted someone whose work he liked and was in sync with. Stevie wanted leverage against Lindsey so she wanted her guy. the rest are all excuses.

This all makes sense.

Chris Lord-Alge also mixed Out Of The Cradle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_Cradle

[bombaysaffires]

This all makes sense.

Chris Lord-Alge also mixed Out Of The Cradle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_of_the_Cradle

huh.... interesting given LB's seeming indifference to that album for a long time.. though I was please how well it was represented on his Anthology.

[button-lip]

'...He again demanded that they would delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half while he finished his solo record, and his solo records never sell anything. He gave them the ultimatum that he would quit, so the band talked and said, “You know what? Why don’t we just fire you? You’ve pulled that trick one too many times. We don’t care.”


What a complete sh!t Ken is turning out to be. He's gone right down hill in my estimation.
'...Delay their world tour for a year or a year and a half'.
It's now up to a year and a half? Any takers for 2 years???? Where did a year and a half come from? Mick? John?

'...You've pulled that trick one too many times'.
When has he ever pulled that trick? Ken may be referencing Lindsey threatening to do a solo record at the time of Tusk, but I don't recall him ever threatening to quit if they refused to allow him to do a solo record and tour.

'...His solo records never sell anything'....you d!ck Ken. Shut up!

He's still using the tour delay strategy to put Lindsey under a bad light, even after it was proved that it was NOT the reason he was fired?
He's trying the get Lindsey's attention, like Stevie with all those nasty comments she made along the tour, or he's truly an a*shole like the rest of the band.

and the various threats made by Stevie over the years to either not participate or to publicly trash band projects if she didn't get her way.:nod:

I have to think the BuckVie project really pushed her over the edge.

But she's Stevie f*cking Nicks. You don't mess with the Queen! :D
And she's not the bosss.

Ken really loves LB, he just has a really strange way of showing it.

Like Stevie? :nod:
Nah, she just hates him.

[button-lip]

I don't care for the Tusk book as much as I liked the Rumours book. Tusk seems rushed. No photos and yes I noticed the timeline difference also.

His comments in the interview are pretty bad. It sounds like since he talks to Mick and John, that he is on the Mick bandwagon when it comes to Lindsey.

It sounds like everything that Stevie said. According to one of Ken's post's, he claimed Stevie told Lindsey, why do a solo album, it won't sell anyway. I feel really bad for Lindsey, talk about beating someone when they are down.

I'm not suprised he's on Mick's side. These people have no soul.

[cbBen]

huh.... interesting given LB's seeming indifference to that album for a long time.. though I was please how well it was represented on his Anthology.

Out Of The Cradle is the best solo album by a member of the FM, IMO.

[jbrownsjr]

A good example of class is Keith Olsen, who is basically responsible for introducing LB and SN to Polydor and then to FM. His work on the white album was exceptional, but he wasn't asked back. From what I recall, Keith liked to prominently feature the bottom end, a point of contention between him and Lindsey once they began talks about Rumours. So, bye Keith. I've never heard him bitch about this.

For what it's worth, the prominent bottom end is what really draws me to the white album. John's creative bass lines really stand out, especially on "Blue Letter," "Rhiannon," "Over My Head," "Say Your Love Me, "Sugar Daddy, " and "World Turning."

And the drums--wow--"World Turning" and "So Afraid" are truly standouts because of Mick's work.

Don't forget that walking bass in Crystal. Whomever decided to put the keyboard solo with that walking bass line... Genius! and then it fades like the "sea".

[aleuzzi]

Don't forget that walking bass in Crystal. Whomever decided to put the keyboard solo with that walking bass line... Genius! and then it fades like the "sea".

It's one of the band's best instrumental moments on record. A real feature for the McVies.

[jbrownsjr]

It's one of the band's best instrumental moments on record. A real feature for the McVies.

A McVie moment on a B/N tune!!! shhhh You'll upset people that think the band is Lindsey and Stevie.

[David]

I actually bought this book yesterday and I finished it last night. Sure, it has some good juicy stuff, even if the narrative is obviously constructed in a cheesy, after-the-fact approach. But the flaws are threefold for this sort of book:

• The photos are blurry or fuzzy or just stupid. Can’t you find some better photos from a year in the studio? How about check Tumblr? Or call Peter Beard for tearsheets.

• We’re not interested in your love life or your immigration story or your shenanigans around town if Fleetwood Mac weren’t involved. Way too much space is given to such claptrap. If you didn’t feel like writing more about Fleetwood Mac (or couldn’t remember anything else to add), shorten your damn book and lower the price a little. Don’t pad it with your personal detritus. Start a blog instead.

• Last but most important, you’re both longtime studio engineers but the rest of us are not. This book is absolutely filled with techno-geek jargon that probably 99 percent of us don’t understand. Why didn’t you bother paraphrasing some of this recording verbiage into something that would mean something to us readers? Are you just showing off your knowledge? There were so many times I wanted to hear a clear, straightforward description of the technology and the approach (for example, mic setup or instrument placement around the room) for certain songs but couldn’t wade through the clotted undergrowth of your pseudodescriptive language. It was pretentious. I have a pretty good background in music theory, can read staff notation, and play an instrument, but I couldn’t understand you 75 percent of the time you were discussing the songs or the studio. “Let’s put the amp in the iso room with two close mics on it.” Uhh, sure.

I give this book a 5 out of 10. The Rumours book is arriving next.

[sleepless child]

You'll enjoy the Rumours book better. For some reason, my book doesn't have photos. I bought it on Nook and I'm reading through it. I'm not sure why I have no photos. But it seems they are not that great anyway.

[desertangel]

Hmmm... I'm having technical problems connecting my Kindle to the internet and don't want to hassle with a printed version. I was trying to think of another way to overcome this, but after reading this thread, I'm not sure I want to. I'm in the process of rereading the Rumours book and am definitely picking up on a slightly hostile, ego-driven, negativity thing maybe? Hadn't really picked up on that before, I don't think. I had several conversations with Ken and met him a couple times including at The Record Plant for the book signing. He seemed like a nice enough guy. Although he promised me a personal tour of the studio after I arrived a day early from Portland, that never happened. I took his word at face value, but now I wonder if he wasn't trying to display some carefully placed swagger to match his book persona. Nah, I'm overthinking it. HAHA!!! His wife was with him for the Sausalito part of the book tour and they stayed at the same hotel in Mill City where I stayed. We all had S'Mores at the patio fire pit that night.

Anyway, he's probably writing these books this way to sell copies. I think that's a problem with being a decades long die-hard fan. It can take some effort to get over artistic license.

I need to find a way to download the book to my iPad. I guess it's not available on iTunes and maybe it never will be. I'm using public wifi and the Kindle wants a login which it can only obtain using the browser, but something about the public wifi signal won't allow the login. The error is too generic... "Can't perform Login Task." :shrug:

[sleepless child]

My overall impression of this book is that Lindsey came in and said we are doing this my way and that's that. But he really had no idea what it was he wanted to do at first. And there were huge chunks of time where he wasn't in the studio and so no one had anything to do but hang out and party. Also it seems Stevie really had to fight to get her songs heard and put on the record because Lindsey either didn't like them or didn't want to do them. Maybe that's why Stevie only has 5 and Lindsey has 9. I think Lindsey probably should have saved a lot of his ideas and songs for his solo album and worked more as a band member. He wanted to be boss and the band let him so he wouldn't leave. I love Tusk and things worked out the way they did, but I can understand the frustration of Ken and John who even had to fight to play his bass parts and then Lindsey would re record them. It just wasn't a good situation for a band. And of course the tension between Stevie and Lindsey. LOL. It's an interesting read and It helped me understand Lindsey a little bit better also. He really wanted to get away from the Rumours sound

[cbBen]

I think Lindsey probably should have saved a lot of his ideas and songs for his solo album and worked more as a band member. He wanted to be boss and the band let him so he wouldn't leave.

If you listen just to the Lindsey songs, it sounds like a solo album.

[secondhandchain]

My overall impression of this book is that Lindsey came in and said we are doing this my way and that's that. But he really had no idea what it was he wanted to do at first. And there were huge chunks of time where he wasn't in the studio and so no one had anything to do but hang out and party. Also it seems Stevie really had to fight to get her songs heard and put on the record because Lindsey either didn't like them or didn't want to do them. Maybe that's why Stevie only has 5 and Lindsey has 9. I think Lindsey probably should have saved a lot of his ideas and songs for his solo album and worked more as a band member. He wanted to be boss and the band let him so he wouldn't leave. I love Tusk and things worked out the way they did, but I can understand the frustration of Ken and John who even had to fight to play his bass parts and then Lindsey would re record them. It just wasn't a good situation for a band. And of course the tension between Stevie and Lindsey. LOL. It's an interesting read and It helped me understand Lindsey a little bit better also. He really wanted to get away from the Rumours sound
Stevies songs are MUCH longer hence she has less songs. If you go buy song length, I bet they are about the same.

[elle]

Stevies songs are MUCH longer hence she has less songs. If you go buy song length, I bet they are about the same.
yeah, i think somebody compared the time in minutes each of the songwriters has on Tusk - i'm sure someone here will know. the times are all very close. in fact, either Stevie or Christine if not both have longer time than Lindsey. most of his songs on Tusk are about 2 minute mark.

[desertangel]

If you listen just to the Lindsey songs, it sounds like a solo album.

That’s what I thought about Say You Will After I listened to it for the first time in years today. Stevie’s songs sounded like Trouble in Shangri La part two, except with Lindsey added because he definitely has his own sound that has infiltrated his songs for years. Perhaps that’s as it should be.:shrug:

[desertangel]

After much digging around and catching up on events of the last five years and reading a sample of Kens new book, I broke down and ordered a hardcover copy. Should be here Monday. Makes me wonder how long they’re gonna flog this old nag of a horse.

[sleepless child]

I never thought of the length of the song. That's interesting.

[mitzo]

yeah, i think somebody compared the time in minutes each of the songwriters has on Tusk - i'm sure someone here will know. the times are all very close. in fact, either Stevie or Christine if not both have longer time than Lindsey. most of his songs on Tusk are about 2 minute mark.

His songs are mercifully short but there are so many of them!

[elle]

I never thought of the length of the song. That's interesting.

yup. how long is the whole album?

[HomerMcvie]

His songs are mercifully short but there are so many of them!

Mercifully short??? :mad: He has the best songs on the album!!!

HIS QUIRKY SONIC ADVENTURES ARE.WHAT.MADE.TUSK.

You owe him an apology.

[HomerMcvie]

yup. how long is the whole album?

74.25 minutes.

I guess CD tech came a little ways since then, since they got up around 80 minutes. Because Sara was an edit, to fit it on the original CD.


They should have just cut Storms, in it's entirety.

[desertangel]

I’m the only one who didn’t know Stevie hooked up with Rojas. Isn’t this the same time period, was it Wild Heart, where she said it was a great album and tour because everyone was in love? Seems like her style changed a bit too, the Easter egg outfits...

[jbrownsjr]

I love Tusk. I think Stevie's songs are top notch on this album. And, I love Christine's songs too.

Sisters
Sara
Beautiful Child
Angel
Brown Eyes
Never Make Me Cry
Think About Me
Over And Over
Honey Hi
Never Forget
Storms


That's some fantastic material right there. (No, I'm not saying I don't like LB's.) I'm just noting the female addition to this album is fantastic.

[bombaysaffires]

I’m the only one who didn’t know Stevie hooked up with Rojas. Isn’t this the same time period, was it Wild Heart, where she said it was a great album and tour because everyone was in love? Seems like her style changed a bit too, the Easter egg outfits...

she was with him during making of Tusk and then went with him to Chile for 6 weeks after the album was done. She talked about this in an interview for Bella Donna. She said she was in a dark place after the Tusk album was finished and she had to make a decision "whether to stay in that dark place or do something to get out of it" which sorta sounds like whether or not to stay in the band and/or whether or not to start a solo career. Either way she wrote the song Bella Donna while in Chile and later said something about how it was inspired by his mother (I think this may be in the BD re release liner notes). Then the band went into rehearsals for the Tusk tour and she broke up with him prior to the tour under the excuse that it's too hard to maintain relationships when you're out on tour for over a year and you don't see each other for long stretches and she gets lonely on the road. She kinda broke his heart (I think isn't he the one who broke of an engagement to someone else to be with Stevie?).

Not sure who all she was with during the Tusk tour, but it was after that, when she began prepping for BD, that she hooked up with Jimmy and they were together until she went off to work on Mirage after the BD tour ended.

Somewhere after that while doing WH she kinda hooked back up with Jimmy but then hooked up with Kim and married him, but divorced him just as they were heading out on the WH tour. There's a tv interview from then where she talks about how she can't stop the tour and just has to move on from the marriage. Joe was her opening act for the WH tour and she hooked up with him and they were together the whole tour after which he seemed to think they were done but she hung on for like another couple years.

Somewhere along the line there she also hooked up with Waddy.

[HomerMcvie]

she was with him during making of Tusk and then went with him to Chile for 6 weeks after the album was done. She talked about this in an interview for Bella Donna. She said she was in a dark place after the Tusk album was finished and she had to make a decision "whether to stay in that dark place or do something to get out of it" which sorta sounds like whether or not to stay in the band and/or whether or not to start a solo career. Either way she wrote the song Bella Donna while in Chile and later said something about how it was inspired by his mother (I think this may be in the BD re release liner notes). Then the band went into rehearsals for the Tusk tour and she broke up with him prior to the tour under the excuse that it's too hard to maintain relationships when you're out on tour for over a year and you don't see each other for long stretches and she gets lonely on the road. She kinda broke his heart (I think isn't he the one who broke of an engagement to someone else to be with Stevie?).

Not sure who all she was with during the Tusk tour, but it was after that, when she began prepping for BD, that she hooked up with Jimmy and they were together until she went off to work on Mirage after the BD tour ended.

Somewhere after that while doing WH she kinda hooked back up with Jimmy but then hooked up with Kim and married him, but divorced him just as they were heading out on the WH tour. There's a tv interview from then where she talks about how she can't stop the tour and just has to move on from the marriage. Joe was her opening act for the WH tour and she hooked up with him and they were together the whole tour after which he seemed to think they were done but she hung on for like another couple years.

Somewhere along the line there she also hooked up with Waddy.

Mama got around more than a merry go round! :lol::lol::lol:

[bombaysaffires]

Mama got around more than a merry go round! :lol::lol::lol:

Not sure who she was riding in that period of making Mirage and touring Mirage, before she went into WH and back with Jimmy then Kim.

[HomerMcvie]

Not sure who she was riding in that period of making Mirage and touring Mirage, before she went into WH and back with Jimmy then Kim.

I think Jimmy banged on her door the best:laugh:, because Bella Donna is my favorite (by FAR) album from her.

Wonder if he could still pull an album out of her like that?

[bombaysaffires]

I think Jimmy banged on her door the best:laugh:, because Bella Donna is my favorite (by FAR) album from her.

Wonder if he could still pull an album out of her like that?

probably not after she was on whatever talent show that was as a coach with him and as she gushed on and on about Lindsey until Jimmy said "yeah, we get it, he was gorgeous" or something close to that and she tried to make it up to him by complimenting his "darling little body"... he just waved her off like 'forget it' at that point. :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

probably not after she was on whatever talent show that was as a coach with him and as she gushed on and on about Lindsey until Jimmy said "yeah, we get it, he was gorgeous" or something close to that and she tried to make it up to him by complimenting his "darling little body"... he just waved her off like 'forget it' at that point. :lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

STILL, Idiot $tevie didn't make the MASTERPIECE that is BD.

Her little poetry didn't make that the monster that it was.

Somebody did. It wasn't Lindsey.

Didn't it have to be Jimmy?

I've said forever, that BD sounds like $tevie fronting the Eagles. It's absolutely perfect. And y'all know how much I hate her now, so that's very high praise.

She should have clung to Jimmy like stink on a pig.:p

[sleepless child]

She was also with Paul Fishkin during Tusk and he was the one who pushed her to do a solo album. She later said he was the one that understood her and her life the most and would probably have been the one to settle down with. Something to that effect.

[David]

Not sure who she was riding in that period of making Mirage and touring Mirage, before she went into WH and back with Jimmy then Kim.
When we went to the Fleetwood concert at Irvine Meadows that year, we joked about how she was the only person in rock with FOUR exes onstage with her: Mick, Lindsey, Don, and J.D. (She hadn’t yet hooked up with Joe Walsh but soon would.)

For all I know, maybe Glenn, too, which would make five or six.

[bombaysaffires]

She was also with Paul Fishkin during Tusk and he was the one who pushed her to do a solo album. She later said he was the one that understood her and her life the most and would probably have been the one to settle down with. Something to that effect.

She was with him long before that though. She was quoted in People in the year end issue 1976 (as one of the year's most fascinating people) that she was seeing Paul then (1976). They were long broken up by the time she did BD.

Dates seem to align that she went with Henley right after Lindsey (and of course whoever she was "shacking up is all you wanna do" with while with him) and while they were still making Rumours, but that was off and on and each saw other people while they were apart. (Mick said same thing about his relationship with her, that they were each also seeing other people all throughout).

Henley, then Fishkin, then maybe Curry while on the road touring Rumours??, I still don't know where JD fit in exactly, Mick somewhere by end of Rumours tour, [who knows who between him and Hernan], somebody(somebodies?) while touring Tusk, then eventually Jimmy to begin BD, breakup with him while starting Mirage, who knows who during Mirage album and the tour, then on/off with Jimmy again while starting WH, then marry Kim, finish record and divorce Kim, Joe on WH tour, then Joe and whoever all else after the tour... somewhere in there was Les Dudek as they worked stuff for RAL, (Waddy's in all this somewhere), then eventually Rupert Hine, and then I was getting out of college and starting my career etc and lost track of her scorecard.....:laugh::laugh::eek:

[HomerMcvie]

She was with him long before that though. She was quoted in People in the year end issue 1976 (as one of the year's most fascinating people) that she was seeing Paul then (1976). They were long broken up by the time she did BD.

Dates seem to align that she went with Henley right after Lindsey (and of course whoever she was "shacking up is all you wanna do" with while with him) and while they were still making Rumours, but that was off and on and each saw other people while they were apart. (Mick said same thing about his relationship with her, that they were each also seeing other people all throughout).

Henley, then Fishkin, then maybe Curry while on the road touring Rumours??, I still don't know where JD fit in exactly, Mick somewhere by end of Rumours tour, [who knows who between him and Hernan], somebody(somebodies?) while touring Tusk, then eventually Jimmy to begin BD, breakup with him while starting Mirage, who knows who during Mirage album and the tour, then on/off with Jimmy again while starting WH, then marry Kim, finish record and divorce Kim, Joe on WH tour, then Joe and whoever all else after the tour... somewhere in there was Les Dudek as they worked stuff for RAL, (Waddy's in all this somewhere), then eventually Rupert Hine, and then I was getting out of college and starting my career etc and lost track of her scorecard.....:laugh::laugh::eek:

jesus christ, $he was doing Curry, too?

No wonder $he's alone these days. $he met her lifetime quota! Or wore it out!:wavey:

It's truly amazing how long her list is...

[bombaysaffires]

jesus christ, $he was doing Curry, too?

No wonder $he's alone these days. $he met her lifetime quota! Or wore it out!:wavey:

It's truly amazing how long her list is...

that's the rumour anyway. Someone asked Dashut about it on his first website and he took the coy road and refused to confirm or deny. There are photos of them that raise some question....:shrug:

Oh, and let's not forget the Beatle's publicity guy Derek for whom she says she wrote Beautiful Child. So I guess we know at least one of her hookups during the Tusk tour, after dumping Hernan.

And the drummer who was her sober sponsor, Derek Taylor when she toured after rehab.

Didn't Rick report some sort of dalliance, a make-out session at least if I recall......

[HomerMcvie]

that's the rumour anyway. Someone asked Dashut about it on his first website and he took the coy road and refused to confirm or deny. There are photos of them that raise some question....:shrug:

Oh, and let's not forget the Beatle's publicity guy Derek for whom she says she wrote Beautiful Child. So I guess we know at least one of her hookups during the Tusk tour, after dumping Hernan.

And the drummer who was her sober sponsor, Derek Taylor when she toured after rehab.

Didn't Rick report some sort of dalliance, a make-out session at least if I recall......

I guess in MANY ways, $he had the world by the balls at that point in life.:laugh:

Hopefully $he didn't catch something incurable. I personally know a couple old rockers with the herpes.

[bombaysaffires]

I guess in MANY ways, $he had the world by the balls at that point in life.:laugh:

Hopefully $he didn't catch something incurable. I personally know a couple old rockers with the herpes.

I actually don't care how many people she slept with, I just find it odd that she always talked/wrote songs about longing for love and the one true love that would last and last... but really, she just liked the romantic notion of it, and preferred playing the field, moving on from one to the next when she got bored. Many of these guys would have been good partners; many not. She said something not long ago that looking back she had dated many guys who "actually liked me and were totally fine with my lifestyle" yet she admitted she still ditched them and went after those wild, torrid, totally unsustainable flings.

And btw, we have no idea how many shags the boys in the band were all out there getting. You KNOW Mick was a dog. I don't think the others were saints either, whether they had wives or girlfriends notwithstanding.:sorry:

[HomerMcvie]

I actually don't care how many people she slept with, I just find it odd that she always talked/wrote songs about longing for love and the one true love that would last and last... but really, she just liked the romantic notion of it, and preferred playing the field, moving on from one to the next when she got bored. Many of these guys would have been good partners; many not. She said something not long ago that looking back she had dated many guys who "actually liked me and were totally fine with my lifestyle" yet she admitted she still ditched them and went after those wild, torrid, totally unsustainable flings.

And btw, we have no idea how many shags the boys in the band were all out there getting. You KNOW Mick was a dog. I don't think the others were saints either, whether they had wives or girlfriends notwithstanding.:sorry:

I'd guess that $tevie and Dick were the worst. Christine and Lindsey weren't too bad? I'm just basing those guesses on their personalities. John, I've never known what to make of his personal life back then...his demons might have kept him out of it? Just speculation.

[bombaysaffires]

I'd guess that $tevie and Dick were the worst. Christine and Lindsey weren't too bad? I'm just basing those guesses on their personalities. John, I've never known what to make of his personal life back then...his demons might have kept him out of it? Just speculation.

they seem to top most 'worst' lists in the band, eh?

[HomerMcvie]

they seem to top most 'worst' lists in the band, eh?

Because they're the same. Attention whores. Drama queens. Their only difference is that Dick wishes he had her kind of money.:lol:

They both crave being onstage, with no desire to be a "normal person". The other three aren't like that, certainly not to that degree anyway.

[vivfox]

They both(Mick & Stevie) crave being onstage, with no desire to be a "normal person". The other three aren't like that, certainly not to that degree anyway.

I think Lindsey is also but he has no success touring solo. If he was as big a draw by himself as Stevie is, I bet LB would have spent much more time on the road.

[elle]

I think Lindsey is also but he has no success touring solo. If he was as big a draw by himself as Stevie is, I bet LB would have spent much more time on the road.

it's funny reading this - how we define "success" on this board. apparently only selling out arenas or stadiums is defined as success. selling out theaters for $100-200 a pop is "no success" - most bands and performers would love to have that level of "no success".

similarly, Mick has even less success in even smaller venues when he tours with his blues band or plays his restaurant. so something doesn't compute in these statements. :laugh:

[desertangel]

she was with him during making of Tusk and then went with him to Chile for 6 weeks after the album was done. She talked about this in an interview for Bella Donna. She said she was in a dark place after the Tusk album was finished and she had to make a decision "whether to stay in that dark place or do something to get out of it" which sorta sounds like whether or not to stay in the band and/or whether or not to start a solo career. Either way she wrote the song Bella Donna while in Chile and later said something about how it was inspired by his mother (I think this may be in the BD re release liner notes). Then the band went into rehearsals for the Tusk tour and she broke up with him prior to the tour under the excuse that it's too hard to maintain relationships when you're out on tour for over a year and you don't see each other for long stretches and she gets lonely on the road. She kinda broke his heart (I think isn't he the one who broke of an engagement to someone else to be with Stevie?).

Not sure who all she was with during the Tusk tour, but it was after that, when she began prepping for BD, that she hooked up with Jimmy and they were together until she went off to work on Mirage after the BD tour ended.

Somewhere after that while doing WH she kinda hooked back up with Jimmy but then hooked up with Kim and married him, but divorced him just as they were heading out on the WH tour. There's a tv interview from then where she talks about how she can't stop the tour and just has to move on from the marriage. Joe was her opening act for the WH tour and she hooked up with him and they were together the whole tour after which he seemed to think they were done but she hung on for like another couple years.

Somewhere along the line there she also hooked up with Waddy.

Oh.My.God!! No wonder she said the young female artists these days should use it while they have it cuz one day they won’t have it any more. She DID wear hers out, lol! This thread has become rather interesting.:lol:

[jbrownsjr]

it's funny reading this - how we define "success" on this board. apparently only selling out arenas or stadiums is defined as success. selling out theaters for $100-200 a pop is "no success" - most bands and performers would love to have that level of "no success".

similarly, Mick has even less success in even smaller venues when he tours with his blues band or plays his restaurant. so something doesn't compute in these statements. :laugh:

Every solo show I've seen with LB has been sold out or nearly sold out and the shows were amazing. He's successful in the fact that he has enough fans and the shows are electric.

I've seen Stevie solo shows along the way. I usually don't like her arrangements with her solo band. It's more predictable. The shows are kind of like FM shows but only less intense.

Christine's solo show rocked the house!! it was a small venue in Cleveland but she did her job. That band was intense. She did a ton of stuff from her new album and even did FM deep tracks (welch era). It was growth for her to go solo that year.

[vivfox]

I think Lindsey is also but he has no success touring solo. If he was as big a draw by himself as Stevie is, I bet LB would have spent much more time on the road.


it's funny reading this - how we define "success" on this board. apparently only selling out arenas or stadiums is defined as success. selling out theaters for $100-200 a pop is "no success" - most bands and performers would love to have that level of "no success".

similarly, Mick has even less success in even smaller venues when he tours with his blues band or plays his restaurant. so something doesn't compute in these statements. :laugh:

It was from Homer's comment about Mick and Stevie being attention whores and I said Lindsey is too. He craves the attention. I can see it when he stands on a FM stage after he performs a song like Never Going Back Again. He'll stand there with his guitar strapped on himself eating up the applause. And yes Elle, if he had more success like Stevie does when she tours, he'd be eating up all his craved attention there also. Problem is, his music isn't as good as hers so he'll never have that large audience applause.


Every solo show I've seen with LB has been sold out or nearly sold out and the shows were amazing. He's successful in the fact that he has enough fans and the shows are electric.

That's funny I recall reading how BuckVie had massive amounts of empty seats. You guys need to face the fact that Stevie is the draw here within these FM band members. But back to my original point, despite our debate of what touring success really is, Lindsey Buckingham is an attention whore.

[elle]

It was from Homer's comment about Mick and Stevie being attention whores and I said Lindsey is too. He craves the attention. I can see it when he stands on a FM stage after he performs a song like Never Going Back Again. He'll stand there with his guitar strapped on himself eating up the applause. And yes Elle, if he had more success like Stevie does when she tours, he'd be eating up all his craved attention there also. Problem is, his music isn't as good as hers so he'll never have that large audience applause..
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
y'all chiffs are so cute trying to push this type of stuff over and over. :]

commercial does not equal great or even good, no matter how many times you try to push that.:nod: in fact, in most cases it's just the opposite. :xoxo:

nobody has a problem with Homer or you saying that LB is attention / adulation whore - he does love it and eats it up - and gives back to fans 1000x. it's not "if". he does do that, and he does tour extensively, whether solo, or BuckVie, or FM. when you add tour dates (public ones, not private gigs paid for by corporations) LB probably has way more tour dates than SN. she has more tours while he possibly has more dates all together. so what you are talking about really makes no sense - other than your trying to yet again push chiffs' favorite theory that commercially successful means quality performer and songwriter. :laugh:


That's funny I recall reading how BuckVie had massive amounts of empty seats. You guys need to face the fact that Stevie is the draw here within these FM band members. But back to my original point, despite our debate of what touring success really is, Lindsey Buckingham is an attention whore.
i remember reading how SN arena shows had highest level seats covered up / blocked off, and how her sheds shows did not even try to sell lawn. some of BuckVie shows in largest venues were completely sold out (Wolf Trap - together with huge lawn - for example), while others not so much. nobody disputes that SN is a known name while LB and CM are not, and that she has always and still is way more commercial than the others. so again - i don't get why you are trying to argue that point, and claiming that people don't accept it. and yes, neutral people (and critics, which she really hated!) would go to FM shows and come out raving about LB not SN. :shrug:

LB, SN, and MF all are attention whores. which is to fans' benefit. nobody disputes that. we all agree on that.

[HomerMcvie]

$tevie fans love numbers. They always have. They equate quantity with quality. The rest of us fans understand the difference.

BOOM!

[elle]

$tevie fans love numbers. They always have. They equate quantity with quality. The rest of us fans understand the difference.

BOOM!

they love numbers but selectively - like, they don't like numbers showing how many FM hits were written by Christine vs how many were written by Stevie. :nod:

it's always funny to see statements from the clueless on the internets such as - Stevie wrote the biggest and most known FM hits or Stevie wrote the best FM songs. and then when you ask which songs, those same people cite GYOW, Songbird, or The Chain. :cool:

[straightback818]

this is getting so out of hand, you all waited decades for stevie to f up somehow (the one that was loyal to the band longer than Lindsey despite a busy solo career) to absolutely ruin her and call her a witch/hag/attention wh*re whatever. All the other f ups of the band members are forgiven and you all act like they're angels, lindsey buckingham is no angel and never has been, and we ALL have read endlessly how hard he is to work with. Remember when he quit the band after contracts were signed and a whole big ass tour was booked, that was a real f'ed up thing to do the band, don't you people think?

I don't post like ever so I am going to make one long post about my opinions on the matters of the mac the last few years...

1) Stevie refusing to record new album
She probably doesn't write anymore and honestly that's fine... she earned her status to go on these endless tours and play her repertoire.
Also, he has become an awful producer, sorry to you old farts that actually thought Buckingham Mcvie sounded good... his production screams crackhead and is stuck in the Tango in the Night Era with his awful effects and constantly pitching background voices up and down (ugh he ruined so many good say you will songs with this). I could understand not wanting to record with him, she is 70 something and deserves to decide how she wants to record her music. I agree with anyone that says she was wrong to say no and keep them on a string, but that's their fault for not putting their foot down and saying we are recording a fleetwood mac album, get involved or don't.

2) Lindsey getting fired
We know the rumours behind the firing, but we still do not know the entire truth. You people are so salty at Stevie without actual factual evidence other than Lindsey's side of the story, which doesn't even make sense. This musicares sh*t has to be Stevie's excuse for something else. Lindsey has kicked her (allegedly I guess?), berated her, and condescended to her so many times in the past, him laughing and looking at an imaginary watch during her speech is rly the feather that broke the camel's back? I don't buy it. Even so, she is 70 years old, it's life to not get along with people and not be able to work with individuals from personal baggage. Yes, she should've just shut up and let the band finish the last few years up (she has dealt with him all these years, with literally a handful left) but I am SO sick of the absolute vitriol that has destroyed this forum from obsessed buckingham fans that never liked stevie nicks (homermcvie) and finally got the ammo they've been waiting for to wreak havoc on this website, I hardly ever check on here anymore because it sucks now.

P.S. wish I had this kind of energy to write my college thesis paper.

[HomerMcvie]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[lovethemac1]

this is getting so out of hand, you all waited decades for stevie to f up somehow (the one that was loyal to the band longer than Lindsey despite a busy solo career) to absolutely ruin her and call her a witch/hag/attention wh*re whatever. All the other f ups of the band members are forgiven and you all act like they're angels, lindsey buckingham is no angel and never has been, and we ALL have read endlessly how hard he is to work with. Remember when he quit the band after contracts were signed and a whole big ass tour was booked, that was a real f'ed up thing to do the band, don't you people think?

I don't post like ever so I am going to make one long post about my opinions on the matters of the mac the last few years...

1) Stevie refusing to record new album
She probably doesn't write anymore and honestly that's fine... she earned her status to go on these endless tours and play her repertoire.
Also, he has become an awful producer, sorry to you old farts that actually thought Buckingham Mcvie sounded good... his production screams crackhead and is stuck in the Tango in the Night Era with his awful effects and constantly pitching background voices up and down (ugh he ruined so many good say you will songs with this). I could understand not wanting to record with him, she is 70 something and deserves to decide how she wants to record her music. I agree with anyone that says she was wrong to say no and keep them on a string, but that's their fault for not putting their foot down and saying we are recording a fleetwood mac album, get involved or don't.

2) Lindsey getting fired
We know the rumours behind the firing, but we still do not know the entire truth. You people are so salty at Stevie without actual factual evidence other than Lindsey's side of the story, which doesn't even make sense. This musicares sh*t has to be Stevie's excuse for something else. Lindsey has kicked her (allegedly I guess?), berated her, and condescended to her so many times in the past, him laughing and looking at an imaginary watch during her speech is rly the feather that broke the camel's back? I don't buy it. Even so, she is 70 years old, it's life to not get along with people and not be able to work with individuals from personal baggage. Yes, she should've just shut up and let the band finish the last few years up (she has dealt with him all these years, with literally a handful left) but I am SO sick of the absolute vitriol that has destroyed this forum from obsessed buckingham fans that never liked stevie nicks (homermcvie) and finally got the ammo they've been waiting for to wreak havoc on this website, I hardly ever check on here anymore because it sucks now.

P.S. wish I had this kind of energy to write my college thesis paper.

Wow.

How many times have many of us, including David (homemcvie), commented on how much we used to love Stevie? Until she lied, and pulled some stupid sh*t.

I guess it's not even worth addressing the other comments.

Good luck on your thesis, I know it's a pain, but you'll get it done.

[straightback818]

Wow.

How many times have many of us, including David (homemcvie), commented on how much we used to love Stevie? Until she lied, and pulled some stupid sh*t.

I guess it's not even worth addressing the other comments.

Good luck on your thesis, I know it's a pain, but you'll get it done.

its just weird to me everyone acting like stevie is the only person to lie, manipulate, dramaticate (I just made that word up and I refuse to not use it), and just be toxic overall in the history of the band.
Since literally 1968, that's been a common characteristic shared by every single one person in this band at one point or another, including lindsey. My whole point is that this demonizing of Stevie and martyring of Lindsey is so lame and trite at this point, and to make her like some evil being sent from the devil himself for this when we don't even know the full nature of their relationship behind the theatrics.

Also not to speak like homermcvie isn't in here and can't speak for himself, but I feel like he's never been a Stevie fan lmao he's been pretty notorious for trolling everything about her since like the 90's (often times it's hilarious).

[jbrownsjr]

It was from Homer's comment about Mick and Stevie being attention whores and I said Lindsey is too. He craves the attention. I can see it when he stands on a FM stage after he performs a song like Never Going Back Again. He'll stand there with his guitar strapped on himself eating up the applause. And yes Elle, if he had more success like Stevie does when she tours, he'd be eating up all his craved attention there also. Problem is, his music isn't as good as hers so he'll never have that large audience applause.



That's funny I recall reading how BuckVie had massive amounts of empty seats. You guys need to face the fact that Stevie is the draw here within these FM band members. But back to my original point, despite our debate of what touring success really is, Lindsey Buckingham is an attention whore.

The Greek show I went to was a full house of screaming fans, it was amazing. . I'm well aware that Stevie is a draw. I just thought her shows were the weakest.

[Villavic]

We know the rumours behind the firing, but we still do not know the entire truth.
.....
Lindsey has kicked her (allegedly I guess?), berated her, and condescended to her so many times in the past, him laughing and looking at an imaginary watch during her speech is rly the feather that broke the camel's back? I don't buy it.

I do agree with you about these two points. From the beginning and to this day I still think we will never know the complete truth. Unless there was some hidden camera out there. Or intercepted calls tapes appear. But even so ...

And yes, The Ledge is so a bitter place nowadays. The only entertaining thing it's how much the people who seems to hate Stevie (with S or $) mentions her every time, even in posts whose topics had nothing to do with Stevie Nicks. Isn't that weird???

[Villavic]

My whole point is that this demonizing of Stevie and martyring of Lindsey is so lame and trite at this point, and to make her like some evil being sent from the devil himself for this when we don't even know the full nature of their relationship behind the theatrics.


Agree!!! I wrote a similar point several months ago, but used the demonizing and victimizing words. The reaction was ... like when talking about politics or religion. :confused:

[BigAl84]

this is getting so out of hand, you all waited decades for stevie to f up somehow (the one that was loyal to the band longer than Lindsey despite a busy solo career) to absolutely ruin her and call her a witch/hag/attention wh*re whatever. All the other f ups of the band members are forgiven and you all act like they're angels, lindsey buckingham is no angel and never has been, and we ALL have read endlessly how hard he is to work with. Remember when he quit the band after contracts were signed and a whole big ass tour was booked, that was a real f'ed up thing to do the band, don't you people think?

I don't post like ever so I am going to make one long post about my opinions on the matters of the mac the last few years...

1) Stevie refusing to record new album
She probably doesn't write anymore and honestly that's fine... she earned her status to go on these endless tours and play her repertoire.
Also, he has become an awful producer, sorry to you old farts that actually thought Buckingham Mcvie sounded good... his production screams crackhead and is stuck in the Tango in the Night Era with his awful effects and constantly pitching background voices up and down (ugh he ruined so many good say you will songs with this). I could understand not wanting to record with him, she is 70 something and deserves to decide how she wants to record her music. I agree with anyone that says she was wrong to say no and keep them on a string, but that's their fault for not putting their foot down and saying we are recording a fleetwood mac album, get involved or don't.

2) Lindsey getting fired
We know the rumours behind the firing, but we still do not know the entire truth. You people are so salty at Stevie without actual factual evidence other than Lindsey's side of the story, which doesn't even make sense. This musicares sh*t has to be Stevie's excuse for something else. Lindsey has kicked her (allegedly I guess?), berated her, and condescended to her so many times in the past, him laughing and looking at an imaginary watch during her speech is rly the feather that broke the camel's back? I don't buy it. Even so, she is 70 years old, it's life to not get along with people and not be able to work with individuals from personal baggage. Yes, she should've just shut up and let the band finish the last few years up (she has dealt with him all these years, with literally a handful left) but I am SO sick of the absolute vitriol that has destroyed this forum from obsessed buckingham fans that never liked stevie nicks (homermcvie) and finally got the ammo they've been waiting for to wreak havoc on this website, I hardly ever check on here anymore because it sucks now.

P.S. wish I had this kind of energy to write my college thesis paper.

LOL these are the kind of posts that make me belly laugh....

[BigAl84]

LOL these are the kind of posts that make me belly laugh....

this is getting so out of hand, you all waited decades for stevie to f up somehow (the one that was loyal to the band longer than Lindsey despite a busy solo career) to absolutely ruin her and call her a witch/hag/attention wh*re whatever. All the other f ups of the band members are forgiven and you all act like they're angels, lindsey buckingham is no angel and never has been, and we ALL have read endlessly how hard he is to work with. Remember when he quit the band after contracts were signed and a whole big ass tour was booked, that was a real f'ed up thing to do the band, don't you people think?

I don't post like ever so I am going to make one long post about my opinions on the matters of the mac the last few years...

1) Stevie refusing to record new album
She probably doesn't write anymore and honestly that's fine... she earned her status to go on these endless tours and play her repertoire.
Also, he has become an awful producer, sorry to you old farts that actually thought Buckingham Mcvie sounded good... his production screams crackhead and is stuck in the Tango in the Night Era with his awful effects and constantly pitching background voices up and down (ugh he ruined so many good say you will songs with this). I could understand not wanting to record with him, she is 70 something and deserves to decide how she wants to record her music. I agree with anyone that says she was wrong to say no and keep them on a string, but that's their fault for not putting their foot down and saying we are recording a fleetwood mac album, get involved or don't.

2) Lindsey getting fired
We know the rumours behind the firing, but we still do not know the entire truth. You people are so salty at Stevie without actual factual evidence other than Lindsey's side of the story, which doesn't even make sense. This musicares sh*t has to be Stevie's excuse for something else. Lindsey has kicked her (allegedly I guess?), berated her, and condescended to her so many times in the past, him laughing and looking at an imaginary watch during her speech is rly the feather that broke the camel's back? I don't buy it. Even so, she is 70 years old, it's life to not get along with people and not be able to work with individuals from personal baggage. Yes, she should've just shut up and let the band finish the last few years up (she has dealt with him all these years, with literally a handful left) but I am SO sick of the absolute vitriol that has destroyed this forum from obsessed buckingham fans that never liked stevie nicks (homermcvie) and finally got the ammo they've been waiting for to wreak havoc on this website, I hardly ever check on here anymore because it sucks now.

P.S. wish I had this kind of energy to write my college thesis paper.

HAHAHA oh so if they collectively put their foot down and it was Stevie that got fired because she wouldn’t record the album you wouldn’t be on here writing ten paragraphs about how unfair it was to Stevie? Sure hahaha oookkaay.

[straightback818]

HAHAHA oh so if they collectively put their foot down and it was Stevie that got fired because she wouldn’t record the album you wouldn’t be on here writing ten paragraphs about how unfair it was to Stevie? Sure hahaha oookkaay.

if people were so bitter calling lindsey a tw*t/abusive a-hole/ whatever bad thing you can think of in literally every single forum topic, yeah I probably would actually. I am a fan of the BAND, including the band's history, and the history is still going to be there... they could've remained apart before the dance and never returned again, they could have broken up during the recording of rumours, I am just greatful to have the 50 years of Fleetwood Mac to look back upon. Some people just take it too far... people fight and people/bands break up, that's life.. I don't see Stevie Nicks as evil for it?

[HomerMcvie]

I don't see Stevie Nicks as evil for it?

Of COURSE you don't. $he's the reason for your season. Embrace it. But we're allowed to voice our opinions, too. This isn't the shrine....many would hope it might be. :sorry: not :sorry:

[HomerMcvie]

Wow.

How many times have many of us, including David (homemcvie), commented on how much we used to love Stevie? Until she lied, and pulled some stupid sh*t.



I said, only a couple of days ago, HOW I THINK BELLA DONNA IS A FU*KING MASTERPIECE, and one of my favorite albums of all time.

But I guess THOSE comments get over looked...

I'd hate to lose my picture on their dartboards in their shrines.:D

[mitzo]

Of COURSE you don't. $he's the reason for your season. Embrace it. But we're allowed to voice our opinions, too. This isn't the shrine....many would hope it might be. :sorry: not :sorry:
Oh but it IS a shrine. To Lindsey.

[lovethemac1]

Oh but it IS a shrine. To Lindsey.

Well, he was the one fired. Unfairly or fairly, whichever you choose to run with. I believe unfairly, because of the need for lies at the start by Stevie and Mick. And I‘ve always stated:
1. I LOVED Stevie before this.
2. I’m mad at them all for allowing this to happen.
3. Lindsey won his court case before it even got to court.
So if I want to discuss that, this is a great place for that. After all, those a**es ruined the band that held my heart for 45 years. I’m allowed to be sad, upset and angry.

[lovethemac1]

if people were so bitter calling lindsey a tw*t/abusive a-hole/ whatever bad thing you can think of in literally every single forum topic, yeah I probably would actually. I am a fan of the BAND, including the band's history, and the history is still going to be there... they could've remained apart before the dance and never returned again, they could have broken up during the recording of rumours, I am just greatful to have the 50 years of Fleetwood Mac to look back upon. Some people just take it too far... people fight and people/bands break up, that's life.. I don't see Stevie Nicks as evil for it?


I believe that Stevie and Mick RUINED the band that I’ve loved forever. Because THE ACTUAL LINEUP from 45 years ago was INTACT. $ and M exploded that for stupid reasons that almost killed the guy they fired. Then ignored him. I don’t find that a happy way to remember the ending of this lineup.
If you do, more power to you. But it bothers me.
And I love coming here to discuss that. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[vivfox]

[/B]
I believe that Stevie and Mick RUINED the band that I’ve loved forever. Because THE ACTUAL LINEUP from 45 years ago was INTACT. $ and M exploded that for stupid reasons that almost killed the guy they fired. Then ignored him. I don’t find that a happy way to remember the ending of this lineup.
If you do, more power to you. But it bothers me.
And I love coming here to discuss that. :thumbsup::thumbsup:


But you and every Stevie hating FM fan on here sounds like a broken record. None of you have said anything new for 2 solid years. It's the same monotone complaints. What I don't understand is why people(not you) are still on this site when they claim to absolutely hate Fleetwood Mac now that Lindsey has been fired. Like why stick around to discuss Fleetwood Mac when you clearly hate the people who currently are members of this band?

[elle]

if people were so bitter calling lindsey a tw*t/abusive a-hole/ whatever bad thing you can think of in literally every single forum topic, yeah I probably would actually. I am a fan of the BAND,
but they do! like a broken record, over and over, every single time when the firing is discussed and even unrelated to that. like you just did here. and yet you do not feel the need to jump in and defend LB against that.

same with "we didn't hear both sides, we don't know the truth" - like a broken record. so yeah people then feel the need to reply to broken record ridiculous comments with some facts.because if you let lies told over abd over again just lay out there, people start thinking it's the truth. :thumbsup:

you say you are fan of the band, but all your posts are about Stevie or Stevie's FM songs. so looks like you are fan of Stevie in whatever band or solo, same as i am fan of Lindsey in whatever band or solo.

[HomerMcvie]

[/B]
I believe that Stevie and Mick RUINED the band that I’ve loved forever. Because THE ACTUAL LINEUP from 45 years ago was INTACT. $ and M exploded that for stupid reasons that almost killed the guy they fired. Then ignored him. I don’t find that a happy way to remember the ending of this lineup.
If you do, more power to you. But it bothers me.
And I love coming here to discuss that. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
THIS.

They ruined the band of my life. Selfish, greedy as*holes.

[David]

commercial does not equal great or even good
In the Stevie Lindsey Wars, if the Stevie side ever says that and genuinely means it, ask them about Rihanna, who has ten times the international chart success Stevie has, a bunch more Grammys, a much higher net worth, a dozen more No. 1 singles, and ten times the fame and acclaim. Commercially, she is to Stevie what Stevie is to Lindsey. Ask them whether, because of that commercial strength which puts Stevie's work in the shadows, Rihanna is ten times the artist that Stevie is.

Now, my point isn't whether she is or she isn't. I say no, of course. Stevie has a personal vision - a muse - with all its attendant quirks and charms and "flaws." In her songwriting, singing, performing, and dress, Stevie was a self-creation. She didn't come out of a boardroom on the 40th floor of the Capitol building in Hollywood. She isn't just her own idea; she's a personal statement. Rihanna's immaculate voice - engineered to make millions - seems about as personal and idiosyncratic as a press release of a corporate merger. Rihanna's business is hitting buttons. She's great at it, too.

But my point is that commercial strength is not any sort of decent gauge of an artist's vision or craft. In fact, it's the gauge of the craft of marketing, more often than not, and it encompasses immaculately produced videos, albums, TV ads, print ads, paid-for radio play, and so on, with hundreds of people, from artists to business people, responsible for the phenomenon.

With Fleetwood Mac, as with any band, "bringing people in" isn't the important thing. It's what you leave in people's memories on their way out that's important.

[BigAl84]

but they do! like a broken record, over and over, every single time when the firing is discussed and even unrelated to that. like you just did here. and yet you do not feel the need to jump in and defend LB against that.

same with "we didn't hear both sides, we don't know the truth" - like a broken record. so yeah people then feel the need to reply to broken record ridiculous comments with some facts.because if you let lies told over abd over again just lay out there, people start thinking it's the truth. :thumbsup:

you say you are fan of the band, but all your posts are about Stevie or Stevie's FM songs. so looks like you are fan of Stevie in whatever band or solo, same as i am fan of Lindsey in whatever band or solo.

Exactly. Well said.

It’s bizarre how somehow the new shield to hide behind for folks who want to blindly defend Nicks without admitting it, start in on the whole “I’m a fan of the whole band, the entire 50 years of members and the ongoing history of conflict” blah blah blah. Put on a big show about the 50 year legacy, worship nicks, act like Lindsey doesn’t exist or play into the narrative that he had it coming due to past events and dismiss Stevie entirely of any wrong doing ..but wait, it’s about being a fan of the entire band. Riiigghht.

[vivfox]

It's not about who got fired and why. It's about learning to grieve and then moving on. It took me all of two months to mourn the loss of Lindsey. I'm experienced at this. I was devastated when he quit in 1987 but I accepted the facts and moved forward. I was equally as crushed when Christine and Stevie quit but I moved on with the newest FM at that time. Obviously if you are a fan of Lindsey it might take you more than 2 months of grieving. But 2 years? C'mon at this point I have no problem telling all of you, "get over it!!" Why must you force the rest of us to wallow in your misery? How many people is it going to take telling you how much The Ledge sucks(even tho I don't think that) before you decide to turn some tables and start posting positive things about this band?
I look forward to the time things around these boards all turn positive. I can't imagine in real life hanging around anyone who carries such misery within them in everything they speak. I'd really like to know who owns this site since Michele sold it. I know if it were mine I would be encouraging everyone to post positively. I'm not against bad concert reviews if they're warranted. We can still share about songs we don't care for but I'd like everyone who comes to this site to feel like they are wanted and included, not alienated. The band bashing should come to a close. I want you people to TRY to remember what you love about this band and celebrate that.

[elle]

cute Viv, cute - as usual.

first of all, the topic of LB firing has been brought up for no reason whatsoever in this thread by a SN fan who said they needed to vent so they decided going off topic and venting (about going off topic!) is the thing to do. :laugh: and now - surprise! - people feel compelled to reply. this was a thread about Ken's book and stuff related to Tusk and Tusk-era. now it turned into yet another thread of discussing exactly what you are complaining is already discussed way too much. we are tired of it, and want to move on, but y'all keep dragging us back.

why stick around to discuss Fleetwood Mac when you clearly hate the people who currently are members of this band?
you can't have it both ways - you can't say - i'm sticking around for history not for present and get over the ugly present - and then insist that the board is about [non-existing] band's present.

there is no current band. if you read the lawsuit you'd know that. FM exists only in spurts, around projects. they sign the contract for a project, once project is done band doesn't legally exist.

IHow many people is it going to take telling you how much The Ledge sucks(even tho I don't think that) before you decide to turn some tables and start posting positive things about this band?
I look forward to the time things around these boards all turn positive.
come on, you know better, now you are just being cynical! people have been saying that The Ledge sucks since i first started reading it! there was a time when the ledge was so full of SN worshippers and so nasty towards Lindsey (let's face it, nastiness towards Lindsey is almost embedded in the site when there are many chiffs here) that i would go on other social media and read how people don't understand why i still even bother ever going to The Ledge. so people saying The Ledge sucks? that's been the case for way longer than a decade. since i first started reading it back in 2009, and then reading back to the old threads, there are always warring factions in FM community, and there is always tons of negativity and nastiness. if you want a positive place, you need to find another band. or maybe people consider "positive" all the SN groups on social media where everyone who says even something like "i don't like SN's boots tonight" gets trashed and thrown out of the group and positive posts about LB or his music or Christine are deleted?

[elle]

[/B]
I believe that Stevie and Mick RUINED the band that I’ve loved forever. Because THE ACTUAL LINEUP from 45 years ago was INTACT. $ and M exploded that for stupid reasons that almost killed the guy they fired. Then ignored him. I don’t find that a happy way to remember the ending of this lineup.
If you do, more power to you. But it bothers me.
And I love coming here to discuss that.

so well said.

and yet, some want to claim that's somehow positive and it's all for the best of everybody in the band.

separately, as a solo fan, i am of course happy Lindsey's not wasting his time with the band stuck in neutral for decades. and i'm looking forward to the year ahead, seeing him at festivals and hopefully a tour, and getting finally that new album he has in the can! :]

and y'all who are so easily annoyed and keep screaming about wanting some kind of imaginary positivity, can go see your chiffon queen at whatever tour or festivals she'll be doing and enjoy life and what you love. :nod:

[straightback818]

They almost killed him... ok you people have gotten ridiculous

"Oh but them firing him stressed him out" Or maybe, it's cuz he's 70 years old...are you serious...
How you know the old guy wouldn't have had a heart attack whether in the band or not, he's also lived a life lined with drug usage and health problems like mild epilepsy.

If you're willing to blame Mick and Stevie for his heart attack, myself and many other people aren't likely to take the negative bs you spew that seriously sorry

[straightback818]

Exactly. Well said.

It’s bizarre how somehow the new shield to hide behind for folks who want to blindly defend Nicks without admitting it, start in on the whole “I’m a fan of the whole band, the entire 50 years of members and the ongoing history of conflict” blah blah blah. Put on a big show about the 50 year legacy, worship nicks, act like Lindsey doesn’t exist or play into the narrative that he had it coming due to past events and dismiss Stevie entirely of any wrong doing ..but wait, it’s about being a fan of the entire band. Riiigghht.

this post is so stupid and generalizing... Never did I say Lindsey "had it coming" or that I even support it happening... I said Stevie should've ideally shut up regardless of the drama between them and finished up the last few years they have left, they've dealt with each other's toxic behaviors for decades.

My point is that certain people that have nothing better to do in their life but come on here and b*tch in every single post about how terrible Stevie and Mick are... and to whoever said I "went off topic" with my rant, it was very clearly in topic because every thread regardless of the beginning topic becomes a toilet of people's hateful bs about Stevie and Mick, and unsurprisingly by the same like three people that apparently have very little to do outside of this forum and come on here angry and upset every single day... and actually someone earlier posted an interview of ken talking about the firing, so it was very much on topic

[HomerMcvie]

Viv, you have no right to tell others how to feel. Get over yourself.

And btw, this is the Rumours forum. THAT INCLUDES LINDSEY. Go to the Present Band forum if you don't want to see him discussed.

They'd have been a footnote in history if it weren't for Lindsey. And $tevie would still be a waitress. Actually, probably dead of an OD.

You must accept this as your position,Viv, because I said so! :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Viv, you have no right to tell others how to feel. Get over yourself.

And btw, this is the Rumours forum. THAT INCLUDES LINDSEY. Go to the Present Band forum if you don't want to see him discussed.

They'd have been a footnote in history if it weren't for Lindsey. And $tevie would still be a waitress. Actually, probably dead of an OD.

You must accept this as your position,Viv, because I said so! :lol:

Homer, I thought I told you to post only what I text or feed you on FB!! :laugh:
Don't make my send you iso tracks of $tevie on piano.
Carry on, love!

[BigAl84]

this post is so stupid and generalizing... Never did I say Lindsey "had it coming" or that I even support it happening... I said Stevie should've ideally shut up regardless of the drama between them and finished up the last few years they have left, they've dealt with each other's toxic behaviors for decades.

My point is that certain people that have nothing better to do in their life but come on here and b*tch in every single post about how terrible Stevie and Mick are... and to whoever said I "went off topic" with my rant, it was very clearly in topic because every thread regardless of the beginning topic becomes a toilet of people's hateful bs about Stevie and Mick, and unsurprisingly by the same like three people that apparently have very little to do outside of this forum and come on here angry and upset every single day... and actually someone earlier posted an interview of ken talking about the firing, so it was very much on topic

HAHAH generalizing? I wasn't even trying to imply that's exactly what YOU said personally.

Again..as Elle said, this rabbit hole began when somebody decided to make a post RANTING about all of the negativity towards Stevie and the rest of the band.

Also, you're arguing with people who have been following this band and message board since the 90's. We've witnessed several decades of Mick & Stevie b*ll****. This isn't the first rodeo for many of us.

Spare me the Buckingham cult BS to anyone who chimes in with that, I used to be a giant Stevie Nicks fan so this isn't coming from somebody who NEVER liked the other band members and solely listened for Lindsey. Quite the opposite actually.

As somebody who actually did like the band as a collective, I have no issue calling out their BS when I see it.

Curious if you even read the lawsuit?

[HomerMcvie]

Homer, I thought I told you to post only what I text or feed you on FB!! :laugh:
Don't make my send you iso tracks of $tevie on piano.
Carry on, love!

I'm awaiting my next instructions from you, oh mighty moderator! :xoxo:

[jbrownsjr]

I'm awaiting my next instructions from you, oh mighty moderator! :xoxo:

Next time you drive just North of the Indy/Kentucky border, look west for the Ghosts in the Fog. They will look like a spirits in flight, only with boots for the summer. The spirits will introduce you to their sisters. The one that has the darkest and most careless make-up will give you your next post. :]. Ok, I think I'm off topic.

[michelej1]

But you and every Stevie hating FM fan on here sounds like a broken record. None of you have said anything new for 2 solid years. It's the same monotone complaints. What I don't understand is why people(not you) are still on this site when they claim to absolutely hate Fleetwood Mac now that Lindsey has been fired. Like why stick around to discuss Fleetwood Mac when you clearly hate the people who currently are members of this band?

And what I don’t understand is why people who say they hate what the site has become and think it’s such a drag keep coming back. It is what it is. It’s been two years now or maybe 10, so it’s probably not going to change. I think people should grieve what they miss about TL and move on. Do they think that if they keep complaining about how unhappy or bored they are that there’s going to be an about face? Do they think there’s going to be a mad scramble to turn things around and entice people back or keep them from leaving in disgust. Do they think criticism of the board is a dagger in the heart to someone ? Do they think that anyone wants to listen to the grievances, take note, and try to correct what displeases people?

[michelej1]

And a night or two with Dave Stewart. She wanted to hide that from Tom Petty because why?? Why would Tom care, unless ...

[jbrownsjr]

And what I don’t understand is why people who say they hate what the site has become and think it’s such a drag keep coming back. It is what it is. It’s been two years now or maybe 10, so it’s probably not going to change. I think people should grieve what they miss about TL and move on. Do they think that if they keep complaining about how unhappy or bored they are that there’s going to be an about face? Do they think there’s going to be a mad scramble to turn things around and entice people back or keep them from leaving in disgust. Do they think criticism of the board is a dagger in the heart to someone ? Do they think that anyone wants to listen to the grievances, take note, and try to correct what displeases people?

I like the "dagger" reference. ;)

[jbrownsjr]

And a night or two with Dave Stewart. She wanted to hide that from Tom Petty because why?? Why would Tom care, unless ...

Sweet dreams are made of these!

[michelej1]

I like the "dagger" reference. ;)

I could have gone with thorn in the side.

[BigAl84]

And what I don’t understand is why people who say they hate what the site has become and think it’s such a drag keep coming back. It is what it is. It’s been two years now or maybe 10, so it’s probably not going to change. I think people should grieve what they miss about TL and move on. Do they think that if they keep complaining about how unhappy or bored they are that there’s going to be an about face? Do they think there’s going to be a mad scramble to turn things around and entice people back or keep them from leaving in disgust. Do they think criticism of the board is a dagger in the heart to someone ? Do they think that anyone wants to listen to the grievances, take note, and try to correct what displeases people?

Well nobody really wants to listen to you go on about what people should and shouldn’t post about, it’s a public forum. If you don’t like it, leave.

[michelej1]

Well nobody really wants to listen to you go on about what people should and shouldn’t post about, it’s a public forum. If you don’t like it, leave.

Well, I can’t leave. It’s not a public forum. It’s a private forum that is open to most. There’s a difference.

[elle]

And what I don’t understand is why people who say they hate what the site has become and think it’s such a drag keep coming back. It is what it is. It’s been two years now or maybe 10, so it’s probably not going to change. I think people should grieve what they miss about TL and move on.

:nod: :thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Well nobody really wants to listen to you go on about what people should and shouldn’t post about, it’s a public forum. If you don’t like it, leave.

The $tevie apologists always want to talk about how bad the board is because most folks won't worship their queen.

Or, they want to dispute anyone they disagree with by... wait for it... saying how bad the board is.

Yet, here they are.

I don't mind negative posts about Lindsey, he's no saint. I like a good debate that breeds discussion.

Which leaves me with this:

If it's me that's driving you to this madness
Then there's one thing that I'd like to say
Take a look at your life and your ledgies...
Nothing ever changes

[Macfan4life]

The $tevie apologists always want to talk about how bad the board is because most folks won't worship their queen.

Or, they want to dispute anyone they disagree with by... wait for it... saying how bad the board is.

Yet, here they are.

I don't mind negative posts about Lindsey, he's no saint. I like a good debate that breeds discussion.

Which leaves me with this:

If it's me that's driving you to this madness
Then there's one thing that I'd like to say
Take a look at your life and your ledgies...
Nothing ever changes
Nothing can be saved here :eek:

[vivfox]

And what I don’t understand is why people who say they hate what the site has become and think it’s such a drag keep coming back. It is what it is. It’s been two years now or maybe 10, so it’s probably not going to change. I think people should grieve what they miss about TL and move on. Do they think that if they keep complaining about how unhappy or bored they are that there’s going to be an about face? Do they think there’s going to be a mad scramble to turn things around and entice people back or keep them from leaving in disgust. Do they think criticism of the board is a dagger in the heart to someone ? Do they think that anyone wants to listen to the grievances, take note, and try to correct what displeases people?


They keep coming back because it's a great site. Or at least it felt great before LB was fired. There should be an effort to change when you have multiple people telling you they'd like to see a change. Change is good. Sheryl Crow says, "a change will do you good." No one is hoping for daggers aimed at board owners. They just want the general abusive broken record posts to cease. I have read all the grievances, taken note of them in my brain, and hope that the negative Nancies will try to correct what displeases people. People don't want to leave the Ledge. We want to make it great again.

[BigAl84]

Well, I can’t leave. It’s not a public forum. It’s a private forum that is open to most. There’s a difference.

Oh give me a break. I'm pretty sure folks can register and start posting, this isn't by invitation only.

And for the record, just because you are not involved in this site the same way you were a few years ago, it still gives you zero right to attempt to control what is discussed or not discussed in a forum...and if you can't handle that, perhaps you're in the wrong business..I'm not really interested in whatever "proviso" agreement you claim to have, it's called free speech.

[mitzo]

Oh give me a break. I'm pretty sure folks can register and start posting, this isn't by invitation only.

And for the record, just because you are not involved in this site the same way you were a few years ago, it still gives you zero right to attempt to control what is discussed or not discussed in a forum...and if you can't handle that, perhaps you're in the wrong business..I'm not really interested in whatever "proviso" agreement you claim to have, it's called free speech.

Presumably that free speech includes the right to criticize the forum and how it is moderated.

[michelej1]

Presumably that free speech includes the right to criticize the forum and how it is moderated.

There is no right to free speech on a private forum any more than there would be a right to free speech on your face book page.

[michelej1]

Oh give me a break. I'm pretty sure folks can register and start posting, this isn't by invitation only.


I will give you a break, as requested.

[michelej1]

They keep coming back because it's a great site. Or at least it felt great before LB was fired. There should be an effort to change when you have multiple people telling you they'd like to see a change. Change is good. Sheryl Crow says, "a change will do you good." No one is hoping for daggers aimed at board owners. They just want the general abusive broken record posts to cease. I have read all the grievances, taken note of them in my brain, and hope that the negative Nancies will try to correct what displeases people. People don't want to leave the Ledge. We want to make it great again.

I don’t think anyone is going to correct what displeases you.

[HomerMcvie]

I don’t think anyone is going to correct what displeases you.
:angel::angel::angel:
You're the best thing that ever happened to the Ledge.

It's a complete 180 from the Johnny Stew years. Thank god.

People allowed to speak their minds and voice their opinions, without fear of retaliation.

[mitzo]

:angel::angel::angel:
You're the best thing that ever happened to the Ledge.

It's a complete 180 from the Johnny Stew years. Thank god.

People allowed to speak their minds and voice their opinions, without fear of retaliation.
Good one, Homer, Hilarious! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[jbrownsjr]

Presumably that free speech includes the right to criticize the forum and how it is moderated.

Thank goodness I have thick skin. ;)

[jbrownsjr]

I don’t think anyone is going to correct what displeases you.

Life without Michele is like listening to $tevie's Silent NIght on repeat. It's just awful!! :xoxo:

[justcrazylove]

16 years on this board and Michele is the glue to this whole ****show. She allows analytical reasoned debate. That can at times result in people venting their emotions, that should be encouraged not hindered; it prevents the board from descending into a worship ground. These 5 human beings that we love are above not above reproach, they are not above anything. Stevie's and Mick's actions in the past two years have been deplorable, the scorn is valid and expected, they broke a lot of peoples heart's, mine included. This board will bounce back, we have lived through the 7wonders years and many a glut of ardent Stevie supporters throwing nasty comments Lindsey's way.

My last point on this, as one of the senior people still on this board, and I have for most of the past 2 years remained relativity silent on the subject. Lindsey has for the last 20 years refrained from ever publicly criticising Stevie. The same cannot be said for her, Stevie has in numerous instances publically bashed Lindsey, his personality, his work, his solo career. Then at the end of all of that, his perseverance of keeping this band afloat since 2003 they kick him out. If you can't see the injustice in that then no wonder you don't like this board. Your knowledge of the history, machinations and personalities of this band is rubbish.

Peace and love

[lovethemac1]

16 years on this board and Michele is the glue to this whole ****show. She allows analytical reasoned debate. That can at times result in people venting their emotions, that should be encouraged not hindered; it prevents the board from descending into a worship ground. These 5 human beings that we love are above not above reproach, they are not above anything. Stevie's and Mick's actions in the past two years have been deplorable, the scorn is valid and expected, they broke a lot of peoples heart's, mine included. This board will bounce back, we have lived through the 7wonders years and many a glut of ardent Stevie supporters throwing nasty comments Lindsey's way.

My last point on this, as one of the senior people still on this board, and I have for most of the past 2 years remained relativity silent on the subject. Lindsey has for the last 20 years refrained from ever publicly criticising Stevie. The same cannot be said for her, Stevie has in numerous instances publically bashed Lindsey, his personality, his work, his solo career. Then at the end of all of that, his perseverance of keeping this band afloat since 2003 they kick him out. If you can't see the injustice in that then no wonder you don't like this board. Your knowledge of the history, machinations and personalities of this band is rubbish.

Peace and love

Beautifully and intelligently stated!!

[michelej1]

16 years on this board and Michele is the glue to this whole ****show. She allows analytical reasoned debate. That can at times result in people venting their emotions, that should be encouraged not hindered; it prevents the board from descending into a worship ground. These 5 human beings that we love are above not above reproach, they are not above anything. Stevie's and Mick's actions in the past two years have been deplorable, the scorn is valid and expected, they broke a lot of peoples heart's, mine included. This board will bounce back, we have lived through the 7wonders years and many a glut of ardent Stevie supporters throwing nasty comments Lindsey's way.



I appreciate the kind words. You know, things have changed. It’s due to the age of the band, the fact that there’s no new material to discuss, Lindsey’s firing and the changing nature of the internet, which has given us so many new, alternate platforms. And we’ve changed too. The Ledge will never be like it was. The current tone may not be the “new normal”. Maybe we’re still evolving into whatever the new normal is, but the old normal is NEVER returning.

There are different ways to be a fan and I’m just not the glowy, positive vibe type of fan. I never have been. I am the “Why in the devil did Kristen put that picture of Lindsey on the cover of Gift of Screws??” type of fan. I will always complain.

Viv mourned Lindsey for 2 months. I will mourn him until I DIE. Save for death, there is no end in site. ItÂ’s a permanent thing. I never stopped wanting Christine back. I cried in concert when the other two performed without her, right up until her return and she was (at the time) only my third favorite.

Happiness is a ephemeral. You never feel the same joy you did when something great happens for the first time, but sadness and loss remain fresh every time you recall whatÂ’s gone. The pain renews itself. I cannot pretend that the heart ache falls away. ItÂ’s never ending.:laugh:

Let’s just be glad that for those who seek them, there are “worship grounds” like you mentioned. People can readily find whatever type of place that feels like home to them.

[jbrownsjr]

I appreciate the kind words. You know, things have changed. It’s due to the age of the band, the fact that there’s no new material to discuss, Lindsey’s firing and the changing nature of the internet, which has given us so many new, alternate platforms. And we’ve changed too. The Ledge will never be like it was. The current tone may not be the “new normal”. Maybe we’re still evolving into whatever the new normal is, but the old normal is NEVER returning.

There are different ways to be a fan and I’m just not the glowy, positive vibe type of fan. I never have been. I am the “Why in the devil did Kristen put that picture of Lindsey on the cover of Gift of Screws??” type of fan. I will always complain.

Viv mourned Lindsey for 2 months. I will mourn him until I DIE. Save for death, there is no end in site. ItÂ’s a permanent thing. I never stopped wanting Christine back. I cried in concert when the other two performed without her, right up until her return and she was (at the time) only my third favorite.

Happiness is a ephemeral. You never feel the same joy you did when something great happens for the first time, but sadness and loss remain fresh every time you recall whatÂ’s gone. The pain renews itself. I cannot pretend that the heart ache falls away. ItÂ’s never ending.:laugh:

Let’s just be glad that for those who seek them, there are “worship grounds” like you mentioned. People can readily find whatever type of place that feels like home to them.

Haha!! Leaving me all those Easter eggs.. You're just teasing me. :wavey::laugh:

[cbBen]

we have lived through the 7wonders years

What were those?

[HomerMcvie]

What were those?

Omg, the Ledge crashed for maybe a week, back in it's heyday... like 2007 or so. SO MANY people were lost(this is before Facebook was a daily thing among of us -then- post college students). Several "free" message boards popped up...

Seven Wonders was one of them. It was one of the bigger ones. And it remained popular for a year or two after the Ledge was back. BUT was eventually moderated by people who were 100% $tevie WORSHIPPERS. If anything negative was said against the queen, they were banished from the kingdom. It died, as it deserved to do.

[HomerMcvie]

Really and truly, pre Facebook, for most of us, THE LEDGE was was the best thing on the internet.

It's hard to imagine how small the internet was, then vs now. Seemingly anyway, as a FM fan.

[jbrownsjr]

I love The Ledge. I feel a part of it. I don't even mind people that disagree with me. I love a few of you that I've gotten to know outside of the board.
What irritates me is when people tell you what you should or shouldn't express because they don't agree.

Back on Topic. I'm half way through the book. (I'm reading 3 damn things at one time. Which is usually the case when I get bored with one book.)
So far there's not a lot we already don't know. It's just from Ken and Hernan's POV. Let me sum it up.

Christine's songs are solid and everyone loved recording them. Especially, Brown Eyes and Never Forget. Dennis was around a lot. He let Ken drive his car. Dennis drank and drove fast cars a lot. Christine was in love. Christine had a lot of keys pulled from Lindsey's songs because he wanted raw.

Stevie was becoming a superstar, and LB and Mick weren't giving her the recognition she deserved. That lack of attention pushed her even harder. So she started writing on her own with Tom Moncrieff. Songs that ended up on Bella Donna were written. She slept with a lot of people. Including Hernan, Mick and Dennis.

Lindsey was taking over as musical director for the band which caused conflict with Ken and Mick. However, he didn't know how to communicate what he wanted from the band. And the band didn't know what he wanted. The result was rockabilly and punk sounds that didn't make sense to Ken. Lindsey's mood goes from 0-100 in 10 seconds. Lindsey fired Hernan and then hired him back.

Mick went along so he could collect a paycheck and eventually go bankrupt.
John did what he was told and left.

In the end it all worked out because it sold 4 million units.

THE END

[nodmod]

I'm reading through the book as well and am a little confused with Hernan keep mentioning that he started working with Fleetwood Mac when he remixed the singles from Rumours, I am not aware of any single mixes for the Rumours songs, or am I missing something?

[David]

I'm reading through the book as well and am a little confused with Hernan keep mentioning that he started working with Fleetwood Mac when he remixed the singles from Rumours, I am not aware of any single mixes for the Rumours songs, or am I missing something?Poor editing. He means the few single mixes for the white album, particularly Rhiannon.

I finished both the Tusk and the Rumours books, and I think they both have a lot of the same flaws (and perhaps strengths). I just wish the strengths (insight into the decisions governing tracking, band vibe in the studio, nonrecording activities such as touring and filming) were strengthier and the flaws were not so omnipresent. (Anyone notice, for example, how Ken and his girlfriend du jour are the only two characters in the book at any given time who aren’t described as neurotic, drugged out of one’s skull, prone to outbursts, overdiplomatic [I was going to say toadying], unengaged in the final product, party-hungry, and generally all-around childish? Both these books strike me as facile and largely phony—as if they were both attempting to convince today’s readers that silly things that happened 40 or 45 years ago were portentous or otherwise essential for an understanding of or appreciation for the music. The other error in judgment I’ve already mentioned elsewhere: the technology descriptions aren’t suitably tailored to mean anything of value to non-recording engineers, and the result is that paragraphs and paragraphs—maybe pages and pages—of text are soporific, as endless lists of equipment manufacturers and models are strung out beyond our capacity to endure. In these books, the mechanics of recording engineering aren’t made accessible to us readers, which is a bummer.

[jbrownsjr]

I'm reading through the book as well and am a little confused with Hernan keep mentioning that he started working with Fleetwood Mac when he remixed the singles from Rumours, I am not aware of any single mixes for the Rumours songs, or am I missing something?

I'm pretty sure there were edits for radio. Maybe that's what he meant. I don't recall. I can't stand that his story is in italics print in the book. It drives me batty.

[nodmod]

I can't stand that his story is in italics print in the book. It drives me batty.

Same, drives me mad

[vivfox]

Christine had a lot of keys pulled from Lindsey's songs because he wanted raw.

What does this mean? *Oh never mind I figured it out after I posted it. I am clueless how to delete a post these days LOL.

[Macfan4life]

I love The Ledge. I feel a part of it. I don't even mind people that disagree with me. I love a few of you that I've gotten to know outside of the board.
What irritates me is when people tell you what you should or shouldn't express because they don't agree.

Back on Topic. I'm half way through the book. (I'm reading 3 damn things at one time. Which is usually the case when I get bored with one book.)
So far there's not a lot we already don't know. It's just from Ken and Hernan's POV. Let me sum it up.

Christine's songs are solid and everyone loved recording them. Especially, Brown Eyes and Never Forget. Dennis was around a lot. He let Ken drive his car. Dennis drank and drove fast cars a lot. Christine was in love. Christine had a lot of keys pulled from Lindsey's songs because he wanted raw.

Stevie was becoming a superstar, and LB and Mick weren't giving her the recognition she deserved. That lack of attention pushed her even harder. So she started writing on her own with Tom Moncrieff. Songs that ended up on Bella Donna were written. She slept with a lot of people. Including Hernan, Mick and Dennis.

Lindsey was taking over as musical director for the band which caused conflict with Ken and Mick. However, he didn't know how to communicate what he wanted from the band. And the band didn't know what he wanted. The result was rockabilly and punk sounds that didn't make sense to Ken. Lindsey's mood goes from 0-100 in 10 seconds. Lindsey fired Hernan and then hired him back.

Mick went along so he could collect a paycheck and eventually go bankrupt.
John did what he was told and left.

In the end it all worked out because it sold 4 million units.

THE END
Thanks for the cliff notes version of the book. Now I don't have to buy and read it :eek:

Now for your comments on the ledge. I was a lurker for a VERY long time before joining. I regret not being here for those early years. Each of us are drawn together from all over the world for one purpose - sharing our opinions about everything Mac related. We all have different opinions on what we like OR don't like about the Mac (and its members). I have engaged in some great debates here but always with respect. However there were a few times and a few members where its senseless to engage them because they cannot handle such a debate. Having said that, I will share my top 3 crazy moments from the ledge.

Had a lively debate with the former moderator from Italy (her screen name escapes me). I actually forget what we were debating about the Mac. I got threatened by 2 or 3 members here that I had "no right" to engage her in any such debate. They thought I was out of bounds to dare question her about something Mac related. Really? How crazy was that? Our debate was civil and not personal and no name calling, etc.

Once a member posted something in chit chat about the passing of their loved one. I responded and tried to comfort them. Another member then responded to me and cast me to hell with religious cursing quoting the Bible. Yeah, how crazy was that?

When Lindsey was fired, it set off a firestorm on this site (deservingly so). When the tour was announced many were skeptical about the success of the tour. I responded with my opinion that it was obvious it was going to be very commercially successful. Stevie just came off her most successful solo tour with sold out arenas, etc. Well, that just set some members off. One member was so upset that I predicted a successful tour that he openly posted he was leaving the board because of me and my post predicting a successful tour. And he was a long time member. The tour ended up being one of their most successful world tours ever.

Now those are my top 3 least favorite moments of the ledge.

[elle]

I have engaged in some great debates here but always with respect. However there were a few times and a few members where its senseless to engage them because they cannot handle such a debate. Having said that, I will share my top 3 crazy moments from the ledge.

you are extremely lucky! :thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

Thanks for the cliff notes version of the book. Now I don't have to buy and read it :eek:

Now for your comments on the ledge. I was a lurker for a VERY long time before joining. I regret not being here for those early years. Each of us are drawn together from all over the world for one purpose - sharing our opinions about everything Mac related. We all have different opinions on what we like OR don't like about the Mac (and its members). I have engaged in some great debates here but always with respect. However there were a few times and a few members where its senseless to engage them because they cannot handle such a debate. Having said that, I will share my top 3 crazy moments from the ledge.

Had a lively debate with the former moderator from Italy (her screen name escapes me). I actually forget what we were debating about the Mac. I got threatened by 2 or 3 members here that I had "no right" to engage her in any such debate. They thought I was out of bounds to dare question her about something Mac related. Really? How crazy was that? Our debate was civil and not personal and no name calling, etc.

Once a member posted something in chit chat about the passing of their loved one. I responded and tried to comfort them. Another member then responded to me and cast me to hell with religious cursing quoting the Bible. Yeah, how crazy was that?

When Lindsey was fired, it set off a firestorm on this site (deservingly so). When the tour was announced many were skeptical about the success of the tour. I responded with my opinion that it was obvious it was going to be very commercially successful. Stevie just came off her most successful solo tour with sold out arenas, etc. Well, that just set some members off. One member was so upset that I predicted a successful tour that he openly posted he was leaving the board because of me and my post predicting a successful tour. And he was a long time member. The tour ended up being one of their most successful world tours ever.

Now those are my top 3 least favorite moments of the ledge.

That's mild!! haha...Glad you made it through all of that.

I was hated by the shippers in the past. How dare I conclude that $tevie and Lindsey don't love each other. He was on Soldier's Angel!! They both hugged and had tears after Landslide!!! They smiled at each other during Say Goodbye!! He doesn't really love Kristen!!! Christine is ruining everything!! Nobody in the band likes Christine, especially not Lindsey or $tevie. Bob Welch, Danny Kirwan, and that Peter guy aren't important!! Just you watch, they will have a Buckingham Nicks II album!! You'll see.

That sounds exaggerated but that was sort of the meat of it. Oh, I almost forgot; every $tevie lyric is about Lindsey and every Lindsey lyric is about $tevie.

[lbfan]

Just you watch, they will have a Buckingham Nicks II album!! You'll see.


For all practical purposes, Say You Will was BN II (and III due to it’s length). It just happened to include one of the best rhythm sections in rock history.

[HomerMcvie]

For all practical purposes, Say You Will was BN II (and III due to it’s length). It just happened to include one of the best rhythm sections in rock history.

Is it bad that I can barely tolerate SYW, but LOVE BuckVie?

SYW is depressing, but BuckVie is fun and uplifting!

[jbrownsjr]

Is it bad that I can barely tolerate SYW, but LOVE BuckVie?

SYW is depressing, but BuckVie is fun and uplifting!

I never thought of it that way. I watch the two different documentaries and I can see why the output is more bright and positive on BuckVie.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to find somewhere to put these spirit catchers that I bought for Bob Dylan.

[jbrownsjr]

For all practical purposes, Say You Will was BN II (and III due to it’s length). It just happened to include one of the best rhythm sections in rock history.

I think Christine stated nearly the same thing. something like "The album without me is basically a B/N album backed by John and Mick."

[HomerMcvie]

I never thought of it that way. I watch the two different documentaries and I can see why the output is more bright and positive on BuckVie.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to find somewhere to put these spirit catchers that I bought for Bob Dylan.

I'd like to suggest a place...a witchy's dark place.

[ryan4136]

Speaking of SYW. We are now to a point where the gap between SYW and today is greater than the gap between SYW and Tango.

[BLY]

I think Christine stated nearly the same thing. something like "The album without me is basically a B/N album backed by John and Mick."


Yes..I must have said that a million times in 2003. It’s all about the “Branding” It’s just like calling the 2017 album Buckingham McVie instead of Fleetwood Mac

[vivfox]

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to find somewhere to put these spirit catchers that I bought for Bob Dylan.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[desertangel]

I'm pretty sure there were edits for radio. Maybe that's what he meant. I don't recall. I can't stand that his story is in italics print in the book. It drives me batty.

I have a vintage 45 that is Go Your Own Way b/w Silver Springs, does that count as possibly one that Hairnon mixed off Rumours?
I find the italics hard to read also, bold print would have been better.

[desertangel]

I’m halfway through the book and several times have wanted to stop and put a Tusk song on the player to listen to things they talk about in the recording of specific songs... but do I? No! Cuz I’m reading! Maybe when I’m finished with the book, I will go back thru and listen to the songs that are written about in detail. Someday, when I have oodles of spare time. :]

[HomerMcvie]

I’m halfway through the book and several times have wanted to stop and put a Tusk song on the player to listen to things they talk about in the recording of specific songs... but do I? No! Cuz I’m reading! Maybe when I’m finished with the book, I will go back thru and listen to the songs that are written about in detail. Someday, when I have oodles of spare time. :]

I was pumping gas the other day, while Tusk was jamming on my stereo. I sh*t you not, I heard SEVERAL parts that I'd never heard before, while standing outside the car. Seriously! Isn't that weird?

[jbrownsjr]

I was pumping gas the other day, while Tusk was jamming on my stereo. I sh*t you not, I heard SEVERAL parts that I'd never heard before, while standing outside the car. Seriously! Isn't that weird?

When I was taught how to mix in our college studio, we would play things at really low volume and then really high volume to hear different parts.

[jbrownsjr]

I’m halfway through the book and several times have wanted to stop and put a Tusk song on the player to listen to things they talk about in the recording of specific songs... but do I? No! Cuz I’m reading! Maybe when I’m finished with the book, I will go back thru and listen to the songs that are written about in detail. Someday, when I have oodles of spare time. :]

I have to admit I said, "Hey Siri, play ****"

[FuzzyPlum]

When I got Making Rumours I read it in about 2 days.
I got Get Tusked for Christmas. I read 4 pages and then couldn't be bothered anymore.
I'm just not feeling it. :shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

When I was taught how to mix in our college studio, we would play things at really low volume and then really high volume to hear different parts.

Standing outside the car, I swear I heard some classical guitar part that I'd never heard before.

[Macfan4life]

I was pumping gas the other day, while Tusk was jamming on my stereo. I sh*t you not, I heard SEVERAL parts that I'd never heard before, while standing outside the car. Seriously! Isn't that weird?
Stevie's goat part?

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie's goat part?

T u u u u u u u u u ss s s s s s s s s s k k k k k k k k k

[SorcererJP]

I was pumping gas the other day, while Tusk was jamming on my stereo. I sh*t you not, I heard SEVERAL parts that I'd never heard before, while standing outside the car. Seriously! Isn't that weird?

I agree with you on this one ... read the e-book with the De Luxe edition of Tusk on repeat. Skipped to certain songs who they spoke about it and heard the things they described which I never really noticed before ... fun to read :-)

[HomerMcvie]

I agree with you on this one ... read the e-book with the De Luxe edition of Tusk on repeat. Skipped to certain songs who they spoke about it and heard the things they described which I never really noticed before ... fun to read :-)

Isn't that weird? That we've listened to an album for 40 freaking years, and still hear things we've never heard before.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie's goat part?

I love it when I'm not the instigator. :lol: :angel:

[BigAl84]

Stevie's goat part?

Hahahahahahaha ...well played!!!

[desertangel]

I have to admit I said, "Hey Siri, play ****"

That would make it easier, will give that a try. And what about the mention of Warner Bros 21st anniversary tv spot on YouTube? I watched that and LMBO. Really illustrates the many mentions of the late night transcentions. :woohoo: