The End of the Road? My Journey with Fleetwood Mac

[cbBen]

According to this post, Lindsey got $12m. Does anyone know whether that's right? This is a good pro-LB piece.

https://mattathomeintheworld.com/2019/03/25/the-end-of-the-road-my-journey-with-fleetwood-mac/comment-page-1/

[cbBen]

Video on this piece from RMO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPG4FtJvIFA

[wayner]

Matt's blog very eloquently expresses the feelings i had when I asked "who else has given up"

My relationship with Fleetwood Mac only formally began in 2009 with the 'Unleashed' tour , but in 1976 I had an 8-track player on my boat, and had only one 8 track cassette on that boat- Rumours - We would go for a ride or go crabbing and that album blasted for all within 100' of the boat to hear ...

[elle]

According to this post, Lindsey got $12m. Does anyone know whether that's right? This is a good pro-LB piece.

https://mattathomeintheworld.com/2019/03/25/the-end-of-the-road-my-journey-with-fleetwood-mac/comment-page-1/

thanks for sharing - here's the whole tex:

MATT: AT HOME IN THE WORLD
Making the world feel like home through stories and photos…

The End of the Road? My Journey with Fleetwood Mac

March 25, 2019 by mattathomeintheworld in Music

Warning: Other than the title, this blog post is not about travel. It is about my long term devotion to the group Fleetwood Mac. If you’re a fan, or you want to learn about the band, you may enjoy this. If not, you’ll probably be happier back in the Travel Blogs section! 😊

Fleetwood Mac Rumours Back
John McVie, Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, Mick Fleetwood and Christine McVie Fleetwood Mac circa 1976


Back in the early to mid 1970s, my musical tastes were what some might call “white bread: Cher’s Half-Breed, John Denver’s Greatest Hits, and Olivia Newton-John’s Have You Never Been Mellow were among my favorite albums back then. OK, so I was not exactly one of the “cool kids” during my adolescence, but that changed one day in the spring of 1975 when a song, called Over My Head, hit the airwaves. It was by a group I’d never heard of before called Fleetwood Mac, from an album simply titled, Fleetwood Mac. Now, mind you, the lush vocals of singer Christine McVie and the soft-rock tempo of the song did not make for exactly “edgy” music, but there was something new and fresh about this group, which featured three singer-songwriters who took turns on lead vocals. Stevie Nicks swirled across stages draped in black chiffon singing the haunting story of a Welsh witch, Rhiannon. Lindsey Buckingham provided the solid, rock-oriented Monday Morning, and McVie sang the bouncy Say You Love Me, with Lindsey and Stevie providing infectious background vocals and harmonies. It was impossible to get tired of the album because the voices and songwriting styles of each of the three songwriters were so different; it was like three albums rolled into one. By that summer, I was totally hooked and this album was the musical centerpiece of the summer of 1975 for me. Given the album’s huge popularity, for the first time in my musical life I was met with looks of camaraderie instead of pity when asked what my favorite album was!

I learned that Fleetwood Mac had been around for several years, but with a variety of different guitarists and vocalists on almost every album. When Buckingham and Nicks joined founding members Mick Fleetwood (drums) and John McVie (bass), and John’s wife, keyboardist and vocalist Christine McVie in 1975, it was the first time that the band achieved such widespread success. Who‘d have guessed that the long awaited second release by these five people, 1977’s Rumours, would spawn four Top 10 hits, catapult the band to an unthinkable level of popularity and would reside among the top selling albums of all time? Rumours was at the #1 spot on the Billboard charts for over 30 weeks. As the album was being recorded, band members Christine and John McVie were in the midst of a divorce, Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks were ending their long term relationship, and Mick Fleetwood was divorcing his wife. The music was powered by this emotionally charged atmosphere. In Dreams, Stevie Nicks sang to Lindsey, “Now here you go again, you say you want your freedom…” In Go Your Own Way he responded with, “If I could, maybe I’d give you my world. How can I when you won’t take it from me?” Meanwhile, Christine McVie beamed about a new love interest in You Make Loving Fun and said goodbye to her broken relationship and wished all of the band members love in the poignant Songbird. Another famous track, The Chain, became one of the band’s signature songs because it was jointly created by all the members and represented their determination to stay together despite all the turmoil. They defiantly sing the refrain, “I can still hear you saying you would never break the chain.”

I was in college then, and was steeped in the world of Fleetwood Mac. I saw them in concert in Boston, I purchased many a Fleetwood Mac t-shirt, and even adopted the CB radio handle “Fleetwood Matt” as I chatted with truckers and ham radio operators across the airwaves. I was fanatical in my love for this band, and because of their enormous popularity, I didn’t have to hide my adoration for them in the way I’d had to for Olivia Newton-John or Cher.

1975's Fleetwood Mac The famous cover of Rumours A devoted fan, circa 1977
After 4 years of listening to the glossy, impeccably crafted tunes of Fleetwood Mac and Rumours, I eagerly awaited their next album, and at long last a new single was released in 1979. I heard Tusk one day on the radio and when I told a friend who had yet to hear it, he excitedly asked, “So, is it a Stevie Nicks song? Or is it Christine? Lindsey?” I had to answer that I really didn’t know! For those of you have not heard it, Tusk is a bizarre mix of barking dogs, random shouting, African-sounding drums, the USC Trojan Marching Band, and a strange, guttural vocal that sounded sort of like Lindsey, though the women could be heard in there too somehow. This was perhaps the Mac’s most controversial record, a double album of 20 tracks, labeled by critics as “experimental” at best and as just plain “odd” at worst. Lindsey Buckingham had taken creative control over this album and was being blamed for its ‘failure”, as It was not the whopping success that Rumours had been, selling a “mere” 4 million copies or so. But to me, it is the band’s masterpiece, and for the last 40 years I’ve probably played at least a couple of songs from it every week. The title song grew on me considerably after a few listens, but beyond that there was Sara by Stevie Nicks, which induces a beautifully melancholy, trance-like state for six and a half minutes. I’d park down at the beach and play her ballad, Storms, pensively thinking about life as she sings the lyrics, “So I try to say goodbye, my friend. I’d like to leave you with something warm. But never have I been a blue calm sea… I’ve always been a storm.” I’d drive home on a snowy night listening to Christine’s dreamy Over and Over and imagine sitting by a crackling fireplace with someone I loved, watching the snow falling outside. Lindsey made me laugh with Not That Funny and provided all sorts of wonderful backing vocals and guitar riffs on Christine’s Think About Me and Stevie’s Angel. After all these decades, I still think it’s one of the best albums I’ve ever heard by anyone, period.

The Tusk album Fleetwood Mac during the Tusk years New decade, new t shirt!
Over the next few years, Fleetwood Mac would vanish for awhile and come back with something new when you least expected it. There was a Live album in 1980 and then Mirage in 1982, which contained probably one of my favorite songs of all time, Gypsy by Stevie Nicks. In grad school a group of friends and I played the fantasy role playing game, Dungeons and Dragons on a weekly basis for almost a year, and my character was a Druid witch named Rhiannon, whose spell incantations featured haunting lines from a variety of Stevie Nicks’ songs. I painted portraits of Stevie and even sold some of my work to avid fans at local flea markets and fairs. I wasn’t just a fan; I was a fanatic.

As the 80s progressed, Stevie, Lindsey and Christine all released solo albums that were met with varying levels of success, with Stevie’s work experiencing the greatest popularity. While there were some great songs on all of these records, I always thought to myself, “This song would have been so much better if it was a Fleetwood Mac song rather than a solo number.” Something about the chemistry among these five people elevated the music to a whole new level. Truly, the whole was greater than the sum of its very talented parts.

Lindsey during the Mirage tour... photo courtesy of Jeff Nelson Painting of Stevie circa 1983
The Mirage Album
The group experienced rocky waters as the 1980s came to a close, with Stevie Nicks dealing with addiction and the group beginning to splinter. After 1987’s Tango in the Night, Lindsey left the band, citing both his seemingly unappreciated efforts to produce that album with little help from the others and his dismay at watching both Stevie and Mick losing their souls to cocaine. He was replaced by not one, but two guitarists and vocalists, which is of course a testament to his amazing abilities. It was sad for me to see him go, but truly, Stevie was still my favorite member of the band and so I still enjoyed 1990’s Behind the Mask, despite Lindsey’s absence. And then, Stevie quit the band, the two new guitarists were out, Christine McVie was arm-wrestled into recording a few tracks for the 1994 album, Time and then she also quit. A totally new and rather forgettable line up replaced Buckingham, Nicks and McVie. The chain had very definitely been broken.

Ten long years passed with nothing new from the band except for some solo releases by the various members and an exciting but brief reunion of the Rumours line-up to perform Don’t Stop at President Clinton’s inauguration gala in January, 1993. Despite their long absence, Fleetwood Mac remained my favorite group, and truly, not a week went by without me playing something by them. Their music had become part of my life’s soundtrack, and so many events and relationships in my life were associated with particular songs.

And then, in 1997, by some strange alignment of the stars, the original “Rumours Five” reunited to do a series of concert tours that were captured on a new, live album and DVD set called The Dance. The album shot to #1 on the charts and is among the top 10 best selling live albums of all time. The band looked and sounded amazing, taking us on a trip down memory lane through new, revitalized versions of all their best songs. Say You Love Me shines, featuring Lindsey on banjo and in the DVD, the whole band stands in a line at the front of the stage singing and playing together. I think this version may have been even better than the original. Lindsey’s work on The Dance made me sit up and take notice of just how talented a man he is, with show-stopping acoustic guitar work and vocals on Big Love and Bleed to Love Her. For old time’s sake, both Tusk and Don’t Stop featured a guest appearance by the USC Marching Band, while an older and wiser Stevie Nicks sang about getting even older and wiser in fantastic renditions of Landslide and Gypsy, with brilliant guitar accompaniment on guitar. Perhaps the most amazing track is Stevie’s Silver Springs, a gem from 1976 about her break-up with Lindsey that was omitted from Rumours due to a lack of space. The interplay between Nicks and Buckingham is enough to give you the chills as the song comes to its dramatic climax, with Stevie glaring at him and virtually shouting the words, “You will never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you!” I have rarely been a fan of live concert recordings, but the quality of the production on this one results in a fantastic album.

So Fleetwood Mac was back again, and all was right with my musical world… until Christine McVie decided to retire at the end of the tour, leaving the band a foursome that returned to hibernation another five years until the release of Say You Will in 2003. It was an excellent album with some great new material, but something seemed lacking without Christine’s earthy balance. One of the best songs on the album, Lindsey’s Steal Your Heart Away, features some previously recorded backing vocals by Christine, and that full, rich Fleetwood Mac sound is there, if only for an instant.

The "Say You Will" line up om tour without Christine. (Photo courtesy of Art Swift) Still a devoted fan....
Other than a four song mini- album and more solo releases, Fleetwood Mac was gone again for another 11 years until Christine decided she was bored with retirement and wanted to return to the group. They began a reunion tour and I was lucky enough to see them in Boston. They were all getting a bit “long in the tooth” by now, and Christine’s vocals sounded weakened by age and perhaps her long hiatus from singing. Stevie also struggled with the high notes and often dropped an octave or two, but still made the crowd go wild as she did one of her famous twirls at the end of Gypsy. Lindsey, the youngest of the band members still had his infectious energy, and the show was a nearly three-hour long reunion with old friends.

As the tour came to an end, there was talk that Lindsey and Christine had begun co-writing a few songs for a new Fleetwood Mac album, and were waiting for Stevie to finish a solo tour so she could contribute to the new record. But as more time passed, it became clear that Stevie wasn’t interested, and in interviews she stated that she didn’t want to record new music anymore because of internet piracy and the fact that records no long make any money. To say that I was disappointed in her was an understatement; a perfect way to end the band’s legacy would have been for these five amazing folks to record one last album together, a gift that fans would treasure always. Now that seemed unlikely to happen.

Ultimately, Christine and Lindsey, backed by Mick and John released a duet album called Buckingham McVie in 2017. Some of the songs on this album, especially Red Sun, Lay Down for Free and In My World would have been at home on any previous Fleetwood Mac album, and I loved it, though again was plagued by that nagging thought, “Now if there were three or four of Stevie’s songs on this album and her backing vocals on some of the other tracks, this would be awesome!” My disappointment in Stevie’s absence from this album was reflected one of Lindsey’s songs, On With the Show. His lyrics, “As long as I stand I will take your hand, I will stand with my band, stand with my band. There’s nowhere to go but on down the road… let’s get on with the show…” I was touched by his resolve to keep the band together and forge ahead, and while it felt like Stevie had for all intents and purposes left the band, he was hopeful that one day Stevie would reconsider and come back to the fold. Little did I know how strangely ironic these lyrics would become.

Stevie, solo tour 2016 Lindsey gives it all in a solo performance (Photo courtesy of Tracie Gingrich)
The Buckingham McVie album
In early 2018 news broke that Fleetwood Mac would be going out on tour again in the fall, but almost immediately the tour was canceled and we heard that Lindsey had “left” the group. Mick and Stevie appeared on TV blaming a disagreement over when to start the tour and claiming that Lindsey wanted a delay so he could finish a solo project. The band wasn’t willing to wait. In a case of déjà vu all over again, they hired two new guitarists/vocalists to replace Lindsey: Mike Campbell, a former member of Tom Petty’s band, and Neil Finn, a former member of Crowded House. This new iteration of the band appeared on Ellen and performed a dreadfully lackluster version of Gypsy and an almost sacrilegious rendition of The Chain that lacked any energy or emotion. All it proved was that Fleetwood Mac should NEVER have broken that chain.

Things got more complicated when Lindsey shared his side of the story, which to me, sounded a lot closer to the truth than what the band members had said. He claimed that he’d agreed to postpone his solo work (as he has done many times) to tour with the band, but despite this, Stevie had given the band an ultimatum. The band’s manager called Lindsey and simply said, “The tour is off. Stevie never wants to be on a stage with you again”. Lindsey, assuming that Stevie was leaving the band, shot e-mails and phone messages out to the rest for the band to reassure them that they could regroup and move forward together (“I will stand with my band…”), but got no responses at all until their manager finally called him back and said, “You don’t understand. You’re the one who’s fired.”

Why Stevie made such a move and why the other band members betrayed Lindsey in this way has been the subject of many theories and rumours. Some say that while she was giving an overly long speech at a music awards show, Lindsey “smirked” behind her back. In reality, as the speech wore on, Mick and Christine kept looking at their watches and laughing and then began to slow dance together behind Stevie’s back. Lindsey then asked John to dance, but was playfully rebuffed. Others claim that Stevie, grief-stricken over her friend Tom Petty’s death, wanted Mike Campbell to join the Mac and Lindsey said no, so she chose Mike over him. News also leaked that the decision to fire Lindsey was made without Christine and that when she was told, she tried to quit the band out of loyalty to Lindsey, but was persuaded (or threatened) to stay. Later she stated that she agreed with the decision and that things between “certain members of the band” were so bad, there was no other choice than to fire Lindsey. Of course, no one but the five knows the actual truth, but Lindsey filed a lawsuit against the band for wrongful termination, and while the band announced they looked forward to their day in court, they immediately settled the lawsuit out of court and paid Lindsey about $12 million. This suggests to me they did not really want their day in court after all and that they are lying through their teeth.

Lindsey went out on a critically acclaimed solo tour, while what has been referred to by angry fans as “Fakewood Mac” or a “Fleetwood Mac cover band” went on their tour at the same time. While their ticket sales have evidently been good (some speculate that many people didn’t even know of Lindsey’s firing until after buying tickets), reviews have been mixed. As a fan for 43 years, I can say that almost every single YouTube video I’ve seen of their concerts has bordered on embarrassingly bad. The band looks tired, there is no energy or chemistry, and that becomes even more obvious when they perform some of Lindsey’s songs. Why they need to do this, I will never understand, since Nicks and McVie have more than enough songs to fill a concert. But Neil Finn, delivering angry lyrics written by Lindsey to Stevie 40 years ago, all with a Kiwi accent and a more mellow vocal style just does not work. It’s frankly, a disaster.

The last straw came when news broke that Lindsey had undergone emergency open heart surgery, resulting in damaged vocal chords. While he is slowly recovering, his professional future is in doubt, Both his father and brother died of heart problems at young ages, indicating a genetic issue, but many speculate that the year of hell Fleetwood Mac’s actions put him through sure didn’t help prevent this problem. Publicly the band posted a generic “Thoughts and prayers are with Lindsey” social media message and at a recent concert Stevie mentioned something vague and silly about sending fairy dust his way, before launching into emotional tributes to the deceased Tom Petty and song dedications to anyone else BUT Lindsey. Fans have divided into two distinct and polarized camps of those who support Stevie and blame Lindsey for everything, and those who stand with Lindsey and are furious with Stevie for orchestrating all of this. Surprisingly, I have to say that I stand with Lindsey.

I guess it’s difficult for anyone who isn’t a huge fan of Fleetwood Mac to understand how these developments have affected me. For 43 years, Stevie Nicks was my favorite vocalist, bar none. Fleetwood Mac has played on my car stereo incessantly. Now, I’m struggling to even look at Stevie’s face and have zero interest in the band’s tour. I am profoundly disappointed in what these people have done to someone who played a gigantic role in keeping the band together all these years, who gave his heart and soul to craft the band’s unique sound, and to help make his bandmates’ work shine through his remarkable production skills. His vocals and guitar work are an integral part of the music which not even two replacements can replicate.

I guess loyalty means a great deal to me, and the band’s lack of it is unforgivable. This is especially true given that when the band needed a new guitarist and asked Lindsey to join back in 1975, he refused to join unless they took his girlfriend and singing partner, Stevie into the band as well. Of course it was her stage presence and unique voice and song writing ability that helped rocket the band to success, but without Lindsey’s ultimatum to the band back then and his beautiful way of helping shape and develop her songs, we might never have heard of Stevie Nicks. Now for her to destroy the band’s legacy by refusing to record a last album with them and then depriving fans of one last chance to see them all together on tour again, it’s left me deeply sad and angry.

I would not attend a show by the new version of the band if you paid me, and I’m totally disinterested in anything new they might record together in the future (Oh yes, Stevie now says she’s open to making a record with the new band!) That’s bad enough, but given what has transpired, I only hope I can keep my anger and disappointment over what has happened from destroying my love for the music that has been such a comfort to me for the majority of my life. Otherwise, I may just have reached the end of the very long road I’ve traveled with Fleetwood Mac.

[singertobe]

Kind of off topic. But as I think more about the things Lindsey did in the past... do you think this is all just a case of late karma for all his violent episodes?:shrug:

[sleepless child]

Really nice article. Exactly my thoughts on the whole situation.

[elle]

Kind of off topic. But as I think more about the things Lindsey did in the past... do you think this is all just a case of late karma

it's a case of good people get screwed. he didn't ask for producing credits for years. he didn't ask for co-writing credits for years. he just did the work and hoped his coworkers would appreciate and acknowledge it. then sometime around Mirage he realized they never will. so he started asking for some producing credits at least. that earned him ridicule from some quarters for being "self-important" genius.

now he learned they will never appreciate anything he did but happily take the products of his labor and throw him under the bus. and use the facts he didn't ask for credits to say, yeah he's just someone who's been in a band for a bit, among thousands of other incarnations.

maybe karma will catch up with bad people. maybe it won't.

[button-lip]

Thanks for posting the whole article! :thumbsup:

If this is about karma, Stevie should get ready! :D

[wayner]

They all better get ready, no one was forced to go along with what went down- we all know what drove MI$K and the bitch .......why did John and Christine aid in the ruination of 40+ years

Their legacy is now down the tubes

[BLY]

It’s very well articulated and is pretty much my thoughts and experiences when each album dropped during the Journey. I just got into them early in 1977 when I heard I Don’t Want to Know on the radio. However, with all the most recent events that have gone down it’s not going to change the way I feel about the music. I’m not happy with Stevie but it will not change the way I feel about the music.

[SteveMacD]

They all better get ready

Get ready for what? Their tour is about to gross $100 million.

[elle]

Get ready for what? Their tour is about to gross $100 million.

people are talking about karma.

not money.

[button-lip]

people are talking about karma.

not money.

$tevie’s fans think with their bank accounts, not with their hearts.

[SteveMacD]

people are talking about karma.

not money.
They’re in their 70s. They’re lucky to be alive at this point. They’ve had amazing careers. They’re legends. They still pack arenas.

Karma? LOL!!! Karma’s time is up. It’s now up to fate, which was inevitable anyway.
$tevie’s fans think with their bank accounts, not with their hearts.

Maybe THEY do. I’m a Fleetwood-McVie-McVie fan.

[Storms123]

Beautifully articulated. And I agree with much of what he said. This band certainly inspires a lot of passion. At this juncture, it saddens me what has happened to this band that I loved so much. What goes around comes around.

[sodascouts]

Well-written piece. It's so freaking sad how many long-term fans have had their hearts broken by this. Fleetwood Mac's legacy has been tainted.... Stevie's legacy has been downright soiled. Such a shame.

[secondhandchain]

Get ready for what? Their tour is about to gross $100 million.

Love how it's all about the money for you. Of course the tour did well. MOST people don't even know LB was fired. Us rabid fans do but how many people catch CBS in the am? Like I said I know more then a few people who bought tickets and were annoyed that he wasn't there. They've got Stevie out front and the FM name, so it's going to do well. But that's not the point!!!! How you are supporting what they did is BEYOND ME.

[lovethemac1]

This article is composed so thoughtfully and stated so eloquently. It sums up perfectly, absolutely perfectly, how I feel as well.

[SteveMacD]

Love how it's all about the money for you.
Newsflash: That’s all it’s been about for THEM. LBCM? Can’t upset the apple cart.

Of course the tour did well. MOST people don't even know LB was fired.
There may have been a few anecdotal instances of that, but enough people had their cell phones waiving during DDIO to tell me that’s BS. People either knew and didn’t care or didn’t know and didn’t care. Or, people were totally fine with it.

How you are supporting what they did is BEYOND ME.
Easy. It’s Mick, John, and Christine with a legendary guitarist and a critically acclaimed musician.

[bwboy]

So now, when something happens to anyone in Fleetwood Mac, it will be karma. As opposed to, say, life. Especially to folks their age. Well, I didn't believe it was karma when John had cancer or when Lindsey had emergency heart surgery, and I won't believe it's karma when something else happens to another member of FM.

[elle]

So now, when something happens to anyone in Fleetwood Mac, it will be karma. As opposed to, say, life. Especially to folks their age. Well, I didn't believe it was karma when John had cancer or when Lindsey had emergency heart surgery, and I won't believe it's karma when something else happens to another member of FM.

no it wasn't karma. it was stress. it was betrayal & hate received from his friends and family of 50 years. :distress:

[SteveMacD]

no it wasn't karma. it was stress. it was betrayal & hate received from his friends and family of 50 years. :distress:

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/16/32/480x240/landscape-1470836941-sure-jan.gif

[bwboy]

no it wasn't karma. it was stress. it was betrayal & hate received from his friends and family of 50 years. :distress:

Or heredity, or genetics, or stress from a tour. Touring is stressful, even if it's something you love doing. Kind of like riding a roller coaster- you may love it, but it can wreak havoc with your body. Fortunately, a roller coaster is only a few minutes long.

While I have no doubt being fired was stressful for Lindsey, the fact is, genetics and family history play a large part in health, too. Please tell me you agree with that. Unfortunately, Lindsey might have had to have surgery whether he had been fired or not. I really think some folks here would blame FM for Lindsey's emergency surgery even if he hadn't been fired- if he had gone on tour with FM, he would have been stressed because of the way they treated him, or because they wouldn't let him perform solo on dates FM wasn't playing, etc. Lindsey had a medical emergency that, unfortunately, a lot of people have. To me, he was the picture of good health, but that's the thing with the heart- it truly is a silent killer. You can feel fine and then wham! Blaming someone else for a medical condition is... well, a lot of words come to mind, but none I want to use, so I'll just leave it at that.

Billy Burnette had a similar experience- shortly after it was announced Lindsey had been fired and replaced by Neil and Mike, he had emergency heart surgery. Very sad, and thank God, like Lindsey, he's recovering.

[elle]

ah yes. we are at the rinse-lather-repeat stage, as usual. because why discuss the topic of the thread when you can distract from it instead?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">it's a well known medical fact that stress has nothing to do with heart attacks. 🙄*🙄especially if one has known family history of heart problems.</p>&mdash; elle (@ellellew) <a href="https://twitter.com/ellellew/status/1096649138224152577?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[button-lip]

no it wasn't karma. it was stress. it was betrayal & hate received from his friends and family of 50 years. :distress:


https://www.medicinenet.com/stress_and_heart_disease/article.htm#does_stress_affect_everyone_the_same


How Does Stress Increase the Risk for Heart Disease?


Medical researchers aren't sure exactly how stress increases the risk of heart disease. Stress itself might be a risk factor, or it could be that high levels of stress make other risk factors (such as high cholesterol or high blood pressure) worse. For example, if you are under stress, your blood pressure goes up, you may overeat, you may exercise less, and you may be more likely to smoke.

If stress itself is a risk factor for heart disease, it could be because chronic stress exposes your body to unhealthy, persistently elevated levels of stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. Studies also link stress to changes in the way blood clots, which increases the risk of heart attack.


I'm sure Lindsey was smiling and happy since he was fired.... :rolleyes:

No matter how much they want to mask it: what his former bandmates did to him affected his health.

[cbBen]

Billy Burnette had a similar experience- shortly after it was announced Lindsey had been fired and replaced by Neil and Mike, he had emergency heart surgery. Very sad, and thank God, like Lindsey, he's recovering.

Perhaps the stress of FM passing him over contributed to Burnette's issue too, and perhaps the band should be evaluating the medical condition of potential hirings and firings before making such moves.

[HomerMcvie]

Perhaps the stress of FM passing him over contributed to Burnette's issue too, and perhaps the band should be evaluating the medical condition of potential hirings and firings before making such moves.

Or just retire the dinosaurs(all of them).

[bwboy]

Perhaps the stress of FM passing him over contributed to Burnette's issue too, and perhaps the band should be evaluating the medical condition of potential hirings and firings before making such moves.

Could be. But no agency or organization should hire somebody so they won't be stressed out, nor should they not fire somebody so they won't be stressed. Using your logic, would it have been ok for FM to fire Lindsey because a physical showed he had heart issues? Of course not, but you brought it up, so do you think that should be the case? A lot of people get fired and don't have emergency heart surgery... even in rock bands. Lindsey must be the exception. I could swear somebody said his father and brother died from some sort of heart issue. But some people (oh, why not just say names- you and elle) say that's just a coincidence and has nothing to do with what happened to Lindsey. It was all because FM fired him. Maybe Lindsey can sue FM again for causing him to have surgery. He wouldn't have a case, because no judge or jury would discount his family history and blame it solely on stress. Well, maybe the 5 people on this board who won't acknowledge the role heredity plays in heart disease or attacks... or at least in Lindsey's case.

It's funny that some people think heredity doesn't play any role in what happened to Lindsey. In others news, some people say the world is flat...

[button-lip]

It's funny that some people think heredity doesn't play any role in what happened to Lindsey. In others news, some people say the world is flat...

Same way some people think stress didn't play any role in what happened. He's 70 years old. He has been carrying his heritage for that long and yet..... was it coincidence that his heritage took a prominent role when he was fired?

In other news, a singer who never played any musical instrument in her entire life will be inducted to the RRHOF.

[button-lip]

Or just retire the dinosaurs(all of them).

They're truly dinosaurs. Some people here think they're the greatest rock band of all time because they're ready to gross $100 million. I wouldn't expect less if you're bringing Campbell and Finn.

KISS is ready to gross $200 million. :blob1::blob1::blob1:
If you think about it $100 million is lame.

[jeets2000]

There may have been a few anecdotal instances of that, but enough people had their cell phones waiving during DDIO to tell me that’s BS.

lol, let me rebut your anecdote with a completely arbitrary one of my own! :lol: This is fun.

It's funny that some people think heredity doesn't play any role in what happened to Lindsey. In others news, some people say the world is flat...

Jeez Louise, guys, this isn't hard: no one is saying heredity didn't play a role. That includes Elle, who you called out by name for some reason, despite the fact she clearly articulated (https://twitter.com/ellellew/status/1096649138224152577) this in a previous post. And no one can say definitively that the events of 2018 CAUSED a heart attack. Quit propping up a straw man so you can feel like you are "winning" this argument.

What people are saying is the events of 2018 may have served as a contributing factor for this cardiac event. (See the difference? It's called nuance, and we're all capable of it!) It's a theory, and it doesn't strike me as all that unreasonable.

Also, and I don't want to speak for cbBen so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I definitely read his post as sarcasm. :shrug:

[elle]

who you called out by name for some reason, despite the fact she clearly articulated (https://twitter.com/ellellew/status/1096649138224152577) this in a previous post. And no one can say definitively that the events of 2018 CAUSED a heart attack. Quit propping up a straw man so you can feel like you are "winning" this argument.

What people are saying is the events of 2018 may have served as a contributing factor for this cardiac event. (See the difference? It's called nuance, and we're all capable of it!) It's a theory, and it doesn't strike me as all that unreasonable.
:nod: :thumbsup:

maybe some people really don't get the nuance, or sarcasm. or health and disease, risks and contributing factors. or maybe they are just trolling. hard to know.

so for people not getting it, both my twitter post and the follow up below are #sarcasm. :xoxo:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">come on! what would a cardiologist know about heart conditions? <br><br>��</p>&mdash; elle (@ellellew) <a href="https://twitter.com/ellellew/status/1096825441195880448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[SteveMacD]

lol, let me rebut your anecdote with a completely arbitrary one of my own! :lol: This is fun.
Except that’s been pretty consistent in videos and reviews throughout the tour.

[jeets2000]

Except that’s been pretty consistent in videos and reviews throughout the tour.

Sorry, but waving a phone at a concert during a song that's been on the radio for 30+ years is not evidence that everyone doing so believes the same thing or is doing it for the same reasons. That's... preposterous? Surely you see this, right? :wavey:

[bombaysaffires]

arbitrary and anecdotal don't mean that something didn't happen or even that it didn't happen a lot.

arbitrary means, and was used here to mean, random and unrelated to the topic at hand.


ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"his mealtimes were entirely arbitrary"
synonyms: capricious, whimsical, random, chance, erratic, unpredictable, inconsistent, wild, hit-or-miss, haphazard, casual

[button-lip]

Sorry, but waving a phone at a concert during a song that's been on the radio for 30+ years is not evidence that everyone doing so believes the same thing or is doing it for the same reasons. That's... preposterous? Surely you see this, right? :wavey:

:laugh::laugh::laugh: I can already hear those comments during the song.... “wow, I didn’t know it was a FM song!” :shrug:

It’s a classic song and a great CH song. Everybody loves the song. That doesn’t mean people are loving that Lindsey was fired or that they giving their thumbs up to the band for what they did.

[mitzo]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: I can already hear those comments during the song.... “wow, I didn’t know it was a FM song!” :shrug:

It’s a classic song and a great CH song. Everybody loves the song. That doesn’t mean people are loving that Lindsey was fired or that they giving their thumbs up to the band for what they did.

they are likely mostly just indifferent to the firing and what the band did. That would not mean they love that Lindsey was fired or give thumbs up to the firing.

[TrueFaith77]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: I can already hear those comments during the song.... “wow, I didn’t know it was a FM song!” :shrug:

It’s a classic song and a great CH song. Everybody loves the song. That doesn’t mean people are loving that Lindsey was fired or that they giving their thumbs up to the band for what they did.

It is in my top 3 worst 80s songs

[vivfox]

In other news, a singer who never played any musical instrument in her entire life will be inducted to the RRHOF.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AreMVWFAQhY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[SteveMacD]

Sorry, but the suggestion that the band somehow fraudulently hid Lindsey’s absence or mislead audiences is laughable. They’ve made several television appearances including a couple of performances, they’ve done interviews in the press, they’ve gotten press coverage, they did that whole month of satellite radio, they have several group publicity photos, and even have Neil and Mike named on their tour poster. Furthermore, it was announced that Lindsey was out and Mike and Neil were in on April 9, but tickets didn’t even go on sale until April 25, the same day they did the CBS interview. It’s not like there wasn’t a lot of press about it at the time.

[button-lip]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AreMVWFAQhY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

OMG! Christine McVie was replaced by Stevie ****ing Nicks!!!!! Please!!!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: One song doesn't make her a piano player.

Next time you want to try to prove something, just say it. I'm not gonna watch another stupid video of Nicks twirling and telling someone what a martyr she is.

[iamnotafraid]

Sorry, but the suggestion that the band somehow fraudulently hid Lindsey’s absence or mislead audiences is laughable.



Not true Steve. When I heard radio advertisements for FM's
concert they were using Lindsey's voice. For me, that
would be a clear misrepresentation. And I'm talking about
his songs.

[mitzo]

Not true Steve. When I heard radio advertisements for FM's
concert they were using Lindsey's voice. For me, that
would be a clear misrepresentation. And I'm talking about
his songs.

Radio ads in my area have clearly listed the names of the new lineup.

[bwboy]

In other news, a singer who never played any musical instrument in her entire life will be inducted to the RRHOF.

Tina Turner? The Supremes? Madonna? The Temptations? I wasn't aware one had to play an instrument to be in the RRHOF.

[button-lip]

Tina Turner? The Supremes? Madonna? The Temptations? I wasn't aware one had to play an instrument to be in the RRHOF.

Tina Turner was never inducted as a solo artist.

Madonna plays guitar.

Thanks for playing.

[TrueFaith77]

Not true Steve. When I heard radio advertisements for FM's
concert they were using Lindsey's voice. For me, that
would be a clear misrepresentation. And I'm talking about
his songs.

And ticket websites frequently used old promo shoots which of course included Lindsey but no Mike or whatshisname

[bwboy]

Tina Turner was never inducted as a solo artist.

Madonna plays guitar.

Thanks for playing.

LOL Well, Madonna is as well known for her guitar playing as Stevie Nicks is for her piano playing. And you made no comment about the Supremes, who played no instrument. So no, one doesn't have to play a musical instrument to be in the RRHOF.

And button-lip, thank you for playing :]

[button-lip]

LOL Well, Madonna is as well known for her guitar playing as Stevie Nicks is for her piano playing. And you made no comment about the Supremes, who played no instrument. So no, one doesn't have to play a musical instrument to be in the RRHOF.

And button-lip, thank you for playing :]

Nicks isn't known for her piano playing. At all. She even said she doesn't play piano. I always knew Madonna plays guitar. Maybe because is a bit more important in the music industry than Nicks.
Group efforts are not discussed here. The Supremes doesn't count. I also didn't mention The Temptations. Is different with groups.

As long as you have someone ready to PAY for your induction, you don't even need to distinguish the musical notes. That's why genuine ROCK women like Chrissie Hynde, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on and on, were never inducted as solo artists.

Coincidence that the same year she kicked Lindsey out of the band she was inducted as a solo artist? I don't think so.

[button-lip]

And ticket websites frequently used old promo shoots which of course included Lindsey but no Mike or whatshisname

ITunes still have a Rumours 5 pic. Seriously....

[jbrownsjr]

Nicks isn't known for her piano playing. At all. She even said she doesn't play piano. I always knew Madonna plays guitar. Maybe because is a bit more important in the music industry than Nicks.
Group efforts are not discussed here. The Supremes doesn't count. I also didn't mention The Temptations. Is different with groups.

As long as you have someone ready to PAY for your induction, you don't even need to distinguish the musical notes. That's why genuine ROCK women like Chrissie Hynde, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on and on, were never inducted as solo artists.

Coincidence that the same year she kicked Lindsey out of the band she was inducted as a solo artist? I don't think so.

It's hard for people to understand how corporations work. I'm glad you do. You are spot on.

[bwboy]

Nicks isn't known for her piano playing. At all. She even said she doesn't play piano. I always knew Madonna plays guitar. Maybe because is a bit more important in the music industry than Nicks.
Group efforts are not discussed here. The Supremes doesn't count. I also didn't mention The Temptations. Is different with groups.

As long as you have someone ready to PAY for your induction, you don't even need to distinguish the musical notes. That's why genuine ROCK women like Chrissie Hynde, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Tina Turner, and the list goes on and on and on, were never inducted as solo artists.

Coincidence that the same year she kicked Lindsey out of the band she was inducted as a solo artist? I don't think so.

Madonna is not known for her guitar playing, c'mon. But I agree she is definitely more important to the music industry than Stevie Nicks. Although Fleetwood Mac is more on par with Madonna, at least in importance to the music industry.

I'm not sure why you say groups don't count, or are different. Seems to me you're picking and choosing if you say the Supremes or Temptations can be inducted despite not playing a musical instrument, but Stevie shouldn't be. And Tina Turner will be inducted sometime, and I'm sure you'll be fine with that. The feeling I'm getting is you just hate Stevie, so that's why you brought up the instrument thing, as I'm sure you'll agree Tina should be inducted, despite not playing an instrument.

I wasn't aware Chrissie Hynde, Ann Wilson, or Nancy Wilson have released many solo albums, so I agree with you, it's not likely they'll ever be inducted for their solo work. The one significant thing about Steve being inducted as a solo artist is that the door will finally open for other women, including Diana Ross, even though she doesn't play an instrument, either. Or Cyndi Lauper, Belinda Carlisle, Florence Welch, Celine Dion, Gwen Stefani, Cher, and plenty of women who don't play an instrument, or aren't known for that. And I would include Madonna in that category. She may know how to play guitar, but that's not something she's well known for doing. To be clear, I'm not saying all the women I've listed deserve to be in the RRHOF, but there are a lot of women who are known primarily for their singing.

I don't really know how the RRHOF inductions work, but I'm sure you're right that, like every industry, money talks. Do you think Lindsey paid his share to be inducted with FM? And I really don't get what you mean by the significance of Stevie being inducted the same year FM fired Lindsey. It sounds like you're saying the music industry is rewarding her for that, which makes zero sense.

[jbrownsjr]

Madonna is not known for her guitar playing, c'mon. But I agree she is definitely more important to the music industry than Stevie Nicks. Although Fleetwood Mac is more on par with Madonna, at least in importance to the music industry.

I'm not sure why you say groups don't count, or are different. Seems to me you're picking and choosing if you say the Supremes or Temptations can be inducted despite not playing a musical instrument, but Stevie shouldn't be. And Tina Turner will be inducted sometime, and I'm sure you'll be fine with that. The feeling I'm getting is you just hate Stevie, so that's why you brought up the instrument thing, as I'm sure you'll agree Tina should be inducted, despite not playing an instrument.

I wasn't aware Chrissie Hynde, Ann Wilson, or Nancy Wilson have released many solo albums, so I agree with you, it's not likely they'll ever be inducted for their solo work. The one significant thing about Steve being inducted as a solo artist is that the door will finally open for other women, including Diana Ross, even though she doesn't play an instrument, either. Or Cyndi Lauper, Belinda Carlisle, Florence Welch, Celine Dion, Gwen Stefani, Cher, and plenty of women who don't play an instrument, or aren't known for that. And I would include Madonna in that category. She may know how to play guitar, but that's not something she's well known for doing. To be clear, I'm not saying all the women I've listed deserve to be in the RRHOF, but there are a lot of women who are known primarily for their singing.

I don't really know how the RRHOF inductions work, but I'm sure you're right that, like every industry, money talks. Do you think Lindsey paid his share to be inducted with FM? And I really don't get what you mean by the significance of Stevie being inducted the same year FM fired Lindsey. It sounds like you're saying the music industry is rewarding her for that, which makes zero sense.

Think about who the promoters and the people that run the industry need to keep happy and maybe it will click for you.

Please don't tell me you think all of these things happened in a vacuum.

[button-lip]

Madonna is not known for her guitar playing, c'mon. But I agree she is definitely more important to the music industry than Stevie Nicks. Although Fleetwood Mac is more on par with Madonna, at least in importance to the music industry.

I'm not sure why you say groups don't count, or are different. Seems to me you're picking and choosing if you say the Supremes or Temptations can be inducted despite not playing a musical instrument, but Stevie shouldn't be. And Tina Turner will be inducted sometime, and I'm sure you'll be fine with that. The feeling I'm getting is you just hate Stevie, so that's why you brought up the instrument thing, as I'm sure you'll agree Tina should be inducted, despite not playing an instrument.

I wasn't aware Chrissie Hynde, Ann Wilson, or Nancy Wilson have released many solo albums, so I agree with you, it's not likely they'll ever be inducted for their solo work. The one significant thing about Steve being inducted as a solo artist is that the door will finally open for other women, including Diana Ross, even though she doesn't play an instrument, either. Or Cyndi Lauper, Belinda Carlisle, Florence Welch, Celine Dion, Gwen Stefani, Cher, and plenty of women who don't play an instrument, or aren't known for that. And I would include Madonna in that category. She may know how to play guitar, but that's not something she's well known for doing. To be clear, I'm not saying all the women I've listed deserve to be in the RRHOF, but there are a lot of women who are known primarily for their singing.

I don't really know how the RRHOF inductions work, but I'm sure you're right that, like every industry, money talks. Do you think Lindsey paid his share to be inducted with FM? And I really don't get what you mean by the significance of Stevie being inducted the same year FM fired Lindsey. It sounds like you're saying the music industry is rewarding her for that, which makes zero sense.

Madonna is way more popular worldwide than FM. Many countries don't even know who Stevie Nicks is.

Groups are different because you're not examined individually. You can be inducted as part of a band because of one of your bandmates' effort. You're examined as a band, not as a solo singer or musician. Totally different.

Tina Turner should have been inducted..... but she hasn't yet. So why Stevie now? What have she done recently? No secret that I despise her, so what?

Many of those women deserve to be in the RRHOF, even before Stevie. And yet, here we are. If she's opening the door with her nasty behavior, I prefer for that door to be close for a long time.....

Why bring Lindsey up into the conversation when you have 3 more members in the band? If someone paid for FM to be in the RRHOF it was probably Mick or most likely Azoff, like he's doing now with Stevie. Mick is the boss, remember? Clearly Lindsey is no one. He was kicked out like an old dog.

[button-lip]

It's hard for people to understand how corporations work. I'm glad you do. You are spot on.

Crystal clear for those who are not dizzy by all the gold dust and the constant twirling.... :nod::nod:

[AliceLover]

Think about who the promoters and the people that run the industry need to keep happy and maybe it will click for you.

Please don't tell me you think all of these things happened in a vacuum.

Wow, I never thought about it like that before, but you're right. Its ALWAYS about money.

[jbrownsjr]

Wow, I never thought about it like that before, but you're right. Its ALWAYS about money.

As Metallica would say, "Sad but true..."

[HomerMcvie]

You know... why IS $tevie being inducted???

$he put out two good albums, almost 40 years ago, and a ton of sh*t since then.

Who did $he pay off for this to happen? I'm 100% serious... WHY is $he being inducted???

[SteveMacD]

Not true Steve. When I heard radio advertisements for FM's
concert they were using Lindsey's voice. For me, that
would be a clear misrepresentation. And I'm talking about
his songs.

You mean Fleetwood Mac played a Fleetwood Mac song that Fleetwood Mac still plays during a Fleetwood Mac concert to promote a Fleetwood Mac tour???? Those bastards!!!

I remember in 1993 that “Don’t Stop” was used to promote Lindsey in the ads for the Tina Turner show.

[jbrownsjr]

You mean Fleetwood Mac played a Fleetwood Mac song that Fleetwood Mac still plays during a Fleetwood Mac concert to promote a Fleetwood Mac tour???? Those bastards!!!

I remember in 1993 that “Don’t Stop” was used to promote Lindsey in the ads for the Tina Turner show.

They used Don't Stop and Little Little LIes for the BuckVie shows.

Then Too Far Gone, Red Sun and something else...

[bwboy]

Groups are different because you're not examined individually. You can be inducted as part of a band because of one of your bandmates' effort. You're examined as a band, not as a solo singer or musician. Totally different.

Tina Turner should have been inducted..... but she hasn't yet. So why Stevie now? What have she done recently?

Why bring Lindsey up into the conversation when you have 3 more members in the band? If someone paid for FM to be in the RRHOF it was probably Mick or most likely Azoff, like he's doing now with Stevie. Mick is the boss, remember? Clearly Lindsey is no one. He was kicked out like an old dog.

No one in the Temptations or the Supremes played instruments... their recordings and live performances were with studio and backing musicians. The members only sang.

Tina Turner, like Stevie Nicks, doesn't play an instrument, but you say she should be inducted. I'm glad you said that, but that weakens your argument that Stevie shouldn't have been inducted because she doesn't play an instrument, if you have no problem with Tina being inducted.

I mentioned Lindsey because he was inducted with FM, and if you say people have to pay to be inducted, I figure Lindsey would have paid his fair share, too. Unless you think he doesn't understand how the music industry works, either? So, like the other members of FM, you must think Lindsey paid his way into the RRHOF, too. Just kidding. I really have no idea, but I'd like to think FM got in on merit alone.

I know we disagree, but I'm glad we can discuss this topic without getting nasty.

[bwboy]

They used Don't Stop and Little Little LIes for the BuckVie shows.

Then Too Far Gone, Red Sun and something else...

But like Steve said, Don't Stop, a song written by Christine, was used to promote Lindsey's solo tour. Is that wrong, or is it wrong only when FM does the same thing?

BTW, I don't think any of them sit around deciding which songs should be played in advertisements. I think other folks do that.

If people really didn't know Lindsey had been fired and felt they were tricked into buying tickets to see them live, please give me their phone number or email address. I have some great new investment properties I'd like to tell them about. Seriously, in this day and age, with all the publicity his firing got, it's hard for me to believe people who were willing to pay $75 or more didn't know. You didn't have to be a stalker to know he had been fired and replaced, it was on Yahoo, msn, Good Morning America, USA Today, CNN, etc. If people didn't know, that's not the band's fault.

[mitzo]

But like Steve said, Don't Stop, a song written by Christine, was used to promote Lindsey's solo tour. Is that wrong, or is it wrong only when FM does the same thing?

BTW, I don't think any of them sit around deciding which songs should be played in advertisements. I think other folks do that.

If people really didn't know Lindsey had been fired and felt they were tricked into buying tickets to see them live, please give me their phone number or email address. I have some great new investment properties I'd like to tell them about. Seriously, in this day and age, with all the publicity his firing got, it's hard for me to believe people who were willing to pay $75 or more didn't know. You didn't have to be a stalker to know he had been fired and replaced, it was on Yahoo, msn, Good Morning America, USA Today, CNN, etc. If people didn't know, that's not the band's fault.

I fear that the heart breaking truth is that 99.9% of people do not care a whit that Lindsey was kicked out.

[michelej1]

People didn't know he had been fired and most of them still don't know that part of it.

However, I find that a lot of them did know that he was not in the band and believed that story about him wanting to postpone the tour and that he couldn't come to an agreement with the band. They didn't know he was kicked out despite doing everything in his power to resolve differences.

The fact is, the majority of people don't know who Lindsey is. They don't care and that's not going to stop them from going to see the Travesty perform.

They don't know his voice. They don't know his face. They don't know his contributions. He is inconsequential to them. But for those who do know and care, the mass apathy doesn't diminish our feelings. If anything, it intensifies them.

[jeets2000]

Sorry, but the suggestion that the band somehow fraudulently hid Lindsey’s absence or mislead audiences is laughable. They’ve made several television appearances including a couple of performances, they’ve done interviews in the press, they’ve gotten press coverage, they did that whole month of satellite radio, they have several group publicity photos, and even have Neil and Mike named on their tour poster. Furthermore, it was announced that Lindsey was out and Mike and Neil were in on April 9, but tickets didn’t even go on sale until April 25, the same day they did the CBS interview. It’s not like there wasn’t a lot of press about it at the time.

Yeah, this has nothing to do with what I was taking issue with, which was your assessment that an arena full of people waving their phones during a Crowded House song at a Fleetwood Mac concert was somehow evidence that all of those people were aware of and approved of Lindsey's firing. That's still a logical fallacy, no matter how much you attempt to move the target.

[button-lip]

Not true Steve. When I heard radio advertisements for FM's
concert they were using Lindsey's voice. For me, that
would be a clear misrepresentation. And I'm talking about
his songs.

If this line up is soooo wonderful and they're soooo happy and Lindsey is such a bastard, they should have recorded new versions of Lindsey's songs with Campbell and Finn. After all, they're FM songs.

Lindsey was part of the creation of Don't Stop, whether some people like it here or not. He and Christine worked on that song. And he was part of the group when he used it.

Totally different story now. They're trashing him now in every opportunity they have but they continue using his pic as part of the group. Misleading publicity.

[button-lip]

No one in the Temptations or the Supremes played instruments... their recordings and live performances were with studio and backing musicians. The members only sang.

Tina Turner, like Stevie Nicks, doesn't play an instrument, but you say she should be inducted. I'm glad you said that, but that weakens your argument that Stevie shouldn't have been inducted because she doesn't play an instrument, if you have no problem with Tina being inducted.

I mentioned Lindsey because he was inducted with FM, and if you say people have to pay to be inducted, I figure Lindsey would have paid his fair share, too. Unless you think he doesn't understand how the music industry works, either? So, like the other members of FM, you must think Lindsey paid his way into the RRHOF, too. Just kidding. I really have no idea, but I'd like to think FM got in on merit alone.

I know we disagree, but I'm glad we can discuss this topic without getting nasty.

Stevie's inability to play an instrument is just the icing of the cake of why she shouldn't be inducted. You can't possibly compare The Temptations, The Supremes or Tina Turner's contribution to the music with Stevie's. Miles and miles apart.

Still don't understand your point. Why Lindsey? It's not his call. He doesn't take decisions in the band. If it was up to him, he simply doesn't care about those things.

Many people got nasty with me here with no apparent reason. You don't get nasty, I don't get nasty. You get nasty, you go to my ignore list. Simple as that.

[bwboy]

they are likely mostly just indifferent to the firing and what the band did. That would not mean they love that Lindsey was fired or give thumbs up to the firing.

Wow, I don't know how I missed this. Mitzo, this describes my feelings pretty much to a T. Well, except for the indifference part. When I first heard the news, I was initially shocked, but quickly accepted it. I mean, it's Fleetwood Mac. And when I heard about Mike and Neil, I really wasn't sure what to think. But after seeing videos posted here by Sugar Mouse, I was intrigued by what they could bring to FM, especially Neil. In no way was I happy Lindsey was fired, but I didn't hate FM, either. I was a fan when Lindsey left in 1987 and I was a fan when he left in 2018.

If people think loving FM now, or seeing them live, or buying a FM record, is a direct slam on Lindsey, I really don't think, for a majority of people, that that's the case. Some people, maybe, but very few.

[button-lip]

People didn't know he had been fired and most of them still don't know that part of it.

Well, if people that are here every day STILL refers to his FIRING as a "leaving", then I don't have much hope for casual fans.

Denial is a powerful tool.....

[jbrownsjr]

But like Steve said, Don't Stop, a song written by Christine, was used to promote Lindsey's solo tour. Is that wrong, or is it wrong only when FM does the same thing?

BTW, I don't think any of them sit around deciding which songs should be played in advertisements. I think other folks do that.

If people really didn't know Lindsey had been fired and felt they were tricked into buying tickets to see them live, please give me their phone number or email address. I have some great new investment properties I'd like to tell them about. Seriously, in this day and age, with all the publicity his firing got, it's hard for me to believe people who were willing to pay $75 or more didn't know. You didn't have to be a stalker to know he had been fired and replaced, it was on Yahoo, msn, Good Morning America, USA Today, CNN, etc. If people didn't know, that's not the band's fault.

Haha... you really misinterpreted that one. I was agreeing with Steve.

Meaning, they just played random tunes for the ad.

[jbrownsjr]

I fear that the heart breaking truth is that 99.9% of people do not care a whit that Lindsey was kicked out.

More like 89% ish...

[michelej1]

More like 89% ish...

And I like the fact that the media perspective is changing now.

[bwboy]

Haha... you really misinterpreted that one. I was agreeing with Steve.

Meaning, they just played random tunes for the ad.

:lol: Apparently, I really lack the ability to discern when people here are being sarcastic. I must be a concrete thinker in my old age. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

[elle]

99.9% of people do not care a whit that Lindsey was kicked out.
More like 89% ish...
general audiences go to see the show so they can say they saw Fleetwood Mac and for the singalongs. they have no clue who is or ever was in the band, just that the legendary band is one of those bucket list items and this looks to be their farewell tour.

can't tell you how many times i saw stuff like "although Lindsey Buckingham is not with them on this tour, and i really wanted to hear her sing Landslide." :laugh:

then there are Stevie hardcores who never went to see FM before, just SN solo, and now they go to 5-10 shows i guess to prove how important she is. :lol: and then there are AHS fangirls.

And I like the fact that the media perspective is changing now.
yes, most of the east coast show reviews very very balanced and actually made sense. they were still very gentle considering how crappy most of these songs now sound, but still, at least they didn't paste from the FM marketing sheets. :thumbsup: of course, the band PR / marketing is adjusting too, if you read that latest article in the present band forum. they are not letting go of their money that easily! :wavey:

[elle]

And Tina Turner will be inducted sometime,
I wasn't aware Chrissie Hynde, Ann Wilson, or Nancy Wilson have released many solo albums,
The one significant thing about Steve being inducted as a solo artist is that the door will finally open for other women, including Diana Ross, even though she doesn't play an instrument, either. Or Cyndi Lauper, Belinda Carlisle, Florence Welch, Celine Dion, Gwen Stefani, Cher,
see, to some feminists among us, reading stuff like this is so offensive. why would anyone have to open the door for all these women who are way ahead of Nicks, in any and every sense? before her, bigger than her, selling way more than her (if commercial is what is of primary importance), way more groundbreaking than her? i mean some of them are not in at all, and there are several on your list that should be in twice already! it's completely ridiculous. i know this is heresy on these boards where Stevie is on high pedestal for people, but try and be realistic for a moment. :shrug:

yes, way more women should have been inducted and many way more deserving are not even in once. and RnRHoF indiction committee shouldn't have been given a choice of either Cyndi or Benatar or Nicks like they apparently were - and those women on the nomination committee shouldn't have gone with that false choice of just one woman among them. :nod:

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey was part of the creation of Don't Stop, whether some people like it here or not. He and Christine worked on that song.
Just like Mick, John, Christine, and Stevie were part of the creation of GYOW…

And he was part of the group when he used it.
Hardly. He had been out of Fleetwood Mac for six years by 1993, and did a bit of trashing them on that tour.

[bwboy]

see, to some feminists among us, reading stuff like this is so offensive. why would anyone have to open the door for all these women who are way ahead of Nicks, in any and every sense? before her, bigger than her, selling way more than her (if commercial is what is of primary importance), way more groundbreaking than her? i mean some of them are not in at all, and there are several on your list that should be in twice already! it's completely ridiculous. i know this is heresy on these boards where Stevie is on high pedestal for people, but try and be realistic for a moment. :shrug:

yes, way more women should have been inducted and many way more deserving are not even in once. and RnRHoF indiction committee shouldn't have been given a choice of either Cyndi or Benatar or Nicks like they apparently were - and those women on the nomination committee shouldn't have gone with that false choice of just one woman among them. :nod:

When I said Stevie Nick's induction as a solo artist would hopefully open more doors for other female artists, I didn't mean Stevie exclusively. If Diana Ross had been the first woman inducted twice, I would have said the same thing. Hopefully, by inducting a female artist twice now, it will happen more often. I don't care who the first woman inducted twice is, I'm just happy it's finally happened, no matter who it was.

[elle]

general audiences go to see the show so they can say they saw Fleetwood Mac and for the singalongs. they have no clue who is or ever was in the band, just that the legendary band is one of those bucket list items and this looks to be their farewell tour.

can't tell you how many times i saw stuff like "although Lindsey Buckingham is not with them on this tour, and i really wanted to hear her sing Landslide." :laugh:

then there are Stevie hardcores who never went to see FM before, just SN solo, and now they go to 5-10 shows i guess to prove how important she is. :lol: and then there are AHS fangirls.


yes, most of the east coast show reviews very very balanced and actually made sense. they were still very gentle considering how crappy most of these songs now sound, but still, at least they didn't paste from the FM marketing sheets. :thumbsup:

some have been twisting their panties in knots over this speculation that reviews using exact same wording from one to the other have been pasting from marketing materials sent to them. :shrug:

[mitzo]

some have been twisting their panties in knots over this speculation that reviews using exact same wording from one to the other have been pasting from marketing materials sent to them. :shrug:

Surely this is common practice even for Lindsey's concerts. And who cares?