Who Has Given Up ??

[wayner]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

[secondhandchain]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

Not one red cent.

[elle]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

i will buy or be there for anything Lindsey does going foward - whether it's a new album he has in the waiting, whether he's capable of just playing guitar or full on touring with singing too, or other projects he may be working on.

the rest of the band? i don't plan to ever see anything with Mick in it again. or Stevie. right now i feel the same about Christine and John, but if there is BuckVie 2 i would change my mind about Christine in a second.

[Storms123]

Done. Can't even entertain giving up my hard earned money, or time to entertain it.
Lindsey solo or collaborating with anyone other than Mick, Stevie, Chris or John, I would be there. I don't think I can get behind Buckvie 2--after this latest article, I actually find Mick and Christine more disgusting than Stevie.

[BLY]

I still love this band and always will. I did not see this line up in concert on this tour but I would have considered it if they were promoting a new album. I would buy a new album by this lineup for sure. I will continue to support Lindsey’s solo work and pray that he recovers from his surgery. It sucks what went down but this band is the soundtrack of my life and “ I Can’t Go Back”. 😎

[bombaysaffires]

Done. Can't even entertain giving up my hard earned money, or time to entertain it.
Lindsey solo or collaborating with anyone other than Mick, Stevie, Chris or John, I would be there. I don't think I can get behind Buckvie 2--after this latest article, I actually find Mick and Christine more disgusting than Stevie.

they're all covered in sh&t as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe for a lot of people, me included, Chris was the biggest surprise.

[Storms123]

they're all covered in sh&t as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe for a lot of people, me included, Chris was the biggest surprise.

I couldn't give Chris the pass so many people were wiling to give. When the lawsuit came out and Lindsey said something about her being "sensitive" I considered, but then no. I am not sure what he meant with that comment, but she went along with the lie. Compromised her integrity and trashed LB in the process. He freakin should have sued for more !

[button-lip]

Well, of course I will support Lindsey, and only Lindsey. But I can't support him if he chooses to join this people again. Sorry. Same if he does BuckVie2.

The rest are dead to me.

[jmn3]

I wouldn't bother with spending another dime on anything FM related, in particular with any live shows. Aside from what went down with Lindsey, I have no desire to see the same tired set now being sung and played by fill-ins. If I want to hear Mike Campbell, I want to hear him playing Running Down a Dream, not Go Your Own Way. I like Don't Dream It's Over, but I have no desire to pay Fleetwood Mac prices to hear Neil sing it accompanied by Stevie Nicks.

If Lindsey went back ever, I would continue to abstain. The bloom is off the rose. This last year has ended my continued love of what this band does. I will always appreciate the past and remain distantly curious about what their current events look like (so no, I'm not going away or getting over it), but I am done spending money on this group. Glad I got to see the Rumours 5 in 2014 - that will suffice for me.

[lovethemac1]

I will always support Lindsey in whatever endeavours he takes on.

I can't stand the other 4 and will never support anything they do. My band is dead, and they are all responsible. I am soooo disappointed with Chris.

And I'm still very angry at the 4 of them, so much so that I haven't listened to any of my FM music in a year. Even when I hear them on the radio, I turn the channel. It makes my stomach drop and my heart ache. I'm done with them, but no....I'm not over it. And probably never will be.

[The Catdancer]

I'll always support Lindsey but none of the others. I'm done with them. They're horrible people who don't care for anything but fame and money.

[HomerMcvie]

The BAND OF MY LIFE is DEAD to me, now. They honor NOTHING. F**k them.
Stevie Nicks is a ******* ****.

If Lindsey is able to record, tour, or even produce, I'll buy anything he puts out.

What a f**king HIDEOUS END to the band of my life.

[sasja]

Very dead to me, cannot even stand to hear their voices.


Will continue to support Lindsey in all his work, though! Cream always rises to the top :thumbsup:

[FuzzyPlum]

I dreamt it...and it's over.
Not interested anymore.
A major part of my life was a sham.
So sad.

[Macfan4life]

Of course its over...been that way for over a year now. I don't even look at the constant threads about Mick or other band member's statements. "OMG, Mick pooped and he did not mention Lindsey" "OMG, the band did not mention Lindsey." "OMG the band did mention Lindsey but it was too short" Really? I don't care about any of that because I don't care about any of them anymore. By constantly replaying that stuff over and over it shows you have not given up IMHO.
Funny how Chris finally says she had no issues with Lindsey but went forward for the good of the band. Her loyalty to the band is what killed the band. Sounds nice but at what cost. I suppose its all about money especially at their stage of their lives. They are in their 70s and know they cant do this much longer. When 10 million is at stake, legacy is not a concern anymore. I love how Chris says the Mac is a democracy but then says the decision was needed for the band to survive. You cant have it both ways by alleging you may have voted against it but then agree and justify it at the same time.
Enjoy your bloody 10 million darling.

[sue]

For me, they already had one foot in the grave.
When they decided to do yet another tour instead of an new Album.

Losing Lindsey was like the last nail in the coffin.
I wouldn’t pay to see them with the current lineup.
Even if Lindsey ever returned to the fold, probably wouldn’t pay to see them either, as they would ALL smack of hypocrisy.

What a way to end such a long career together.....

[sleepless child]

As long time Fleetwood Mac/Stevie Nicks fans this is just a punch in the gut. The whole damn situation.

Reading some of the quotes from the Mojo article just sickens me. These people are just heartless. And to think all the money and time we have spent on them. They show they really don't care about each other at all.

I remember watching Oprah on HBO after the Leaving Neverland documentary and she quoted an article written by Maureen Orr (I think) where she talked about idolizing someone was like staring into the sun and we shouldn't do that.

I feel like I have been staring into the sun/Stevie since 1975 and I was so blinded by her. Now as I've gotten older and wiser I finally see. But it's almost like an addiction. I've spent over 40 years idolizing and collecting on this band. It was crazy. I'm thinking of getting rid of all of it. I would definitely have more room. LOL

[michelej1]

I detest the Four and wish them many things, none of them good.

But it's hilarious how ubiquitous the music is. You can't even fume in peace without a FM song coming on. Whether it's a restaurant, beauty salon, doctor's office or bank, if there's music playing, I will hear an FM song within 15 minutes. They've followed me down 'til the sound of their voices haunt me.

[rhiannondontgo]

I’ll be there for anything they do going forward. Loved the current tour when I went to see them in Atlantic City. Excited to see them play again in Philly - and to hopefully get a glimpse of the rest of the group when we’re all there at Stevie’s hall of fame induction next week.

This is my band that I’ve loved all my life. My mom sang Landslide to me & all my siblings when she’d rock us to sleep as babies. My youngest sister is even named Rhiannon. My first tattoo was a crescent moon. I made most of my close friends through FM shows.

It would take a lot more than kicking out one member to get me to stop loving this group. I’m not sure what they’d have to do to lose my love but it’d have to be really bad - like ”secretly nazis” or “killing puppies” kind of bad.

And seeing as the vast majority of people I know are still loving them & still going to shows, it kind of seems like I’m in the majority :sorry:

[Lola]

I've given up trying to explain my feeling to friends, family and coworkers. My sig other is about the only person on earth besides people here that even remotely understand. Layers and layers of emotion. There's no succinct way to explain it. How can people relate when they haven't followed the band and the solo projects for decades. I fear everything that's gone on with the firing, lying, LB health issue etc, etc has permanently altered my relationship with the music. This is the first time in my life I've wished I could be one of those casual fans who hear a song, sing along and breeze on to the next song.

I read here regularly. There are so many times I want to comment but I don't have the energy.....it's like my brain is working but I can't will my body to do the work. I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years but I doubt it. Someone will die or release a new album or tour or whatever and it will start up again for me. Sounds like crazy talk at their age (albums/tours) but anything can happen as we've seen.

What the hell do I do with all the stuff I've accumulated over the years?? I can't even contemplate it so I do nothing. I always took pride in MY band being one of the very few classic bands that still has its original lineup (original as in Rumours 5 is what most people think of as original)--that's blown to bits now.

I can't even discuss Stevie--she was always my favorite member but.........The worst part is I'm not a sycophant. No matter how much I love someones music I can still be objective about the people playing the music. I know they're flawed people as we all are. I've always accepted the drama as part of FM. I've never propped any of them up as perfect people cause they're not and I never expected them to be.
From the very beginning I never wanted to be team Stevie or team Lindsey. I want to be team FM.

Just sharing my feelings here. I'm sure some can relate while others may disagree--that's okay. Each fan has such an individual relationship to the band and the music. That's another thing that upsets me. The uniqueness of that has been damaged.
Sorry for the gloom and thanks for letting me post my inner Eeyore.

[Villavic]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

Definitely me.

[TheWILDheart]

I wouldn’t say I’ve “given up”. Fleetwood Mac’s music and Stevie’s solo output will always hold a place in my heart. Their history, their past creativity can never be ignored. So I will continue to play and enjoy their music.

Can’t say I’m interested in what they’re doing these days. I wouldn’t mind seeing the show, but I’m not paying the astronomical prices they’re asking

[aleuzzi]

I'm not spending money on another Mac concert. I'll continue to support Lindsey. I would consider buying new songs from the band--as if THAT would ever happen. But even then, the new material would have to be sung by Christine. Otherwise, I'm out.

Still waiting on another solo record from Christine, or another BuckVie (and I do believe another one is still likely).

[fyerflys]

I've given up trying to explain my feeling to friends, family and coworkers. My sig other is about the only person on earth besides people here that even remotely understand. Layers and layers of emotion. There's no succinct way to explain it. How can people relate when they haven't followed the band and the solo projects for decades. I fear everything that's gone on with the firing, lying, LB health issue etc, etc has permanently altered my relationship with the music. This is the first time in my life I've wished I could be one of those casual fans who hear a song, sing along and breeze on to the next song.

I read here regularly. There are so many times I want to comment but I don't have the energy.....it's like my brain is working but I can't will my body to do the work. I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years but I doubt it. Someone will die or release a new album or tour or whatever and it will start up again for me. Sounds like crazy talk at their age (albums/tours) but anything can happen as we've seen.

What the hell do I do with all the stuff I've accumulated over the years?? I can't even contemplate it so I do nothing. I always took pride in MY band being one of the very few classic bands that still has its original lineup (original as in Rumours 5 is what most people think of as original)--that's blown to bits now.

I can't even discuss Stevie--she was always my favorite member but.........The worst part is I'm not a sycophant. No matter how much I love someones music I can still be objective about the people playing the music. I know they're flawed people as we all are. I've always accepted the drama as part of FM. I've never propped any of them up as perfect people cause they're not and I never expected them to be.
From the very beginning I never wanted to be team Stevie or team Lindsey. I want to be team FM.

Just sharing my feelings here. I'm sure some can relate while others may disagree--that's okay. Each fan has such an individual relationship to the band and the music. That's another thing that upsets me. The uniqueness of that has been damaged.
Sorry for the gloom and thanks for letting me post my inner Eeyore.


AMEN sistah.......:angel:

[TrueFaith77]

AMEN sistah.......:angel:

Agreed. Pretty perfectly stated.


I detest the Four and wish them many things, none of them good.

But it's hilarious how ubiquitous the music is. You can't even fume in peace without a FM song coming on. Whether it's a restaurant, beauty salon, doctor's office or bank, if there's music playing, I will hear an FM song within 15 minutes. They've followed me down 'til the sound of their voices haunt me.

You have wrung a gift from screws.

Stevie, as always, is a prophet.

[dontlookdown]

Done.

Lindsey all the way -- and I know he's making a slowly but surely recovery.
Looking forward to his new album and whatever plans he may have down the road when he's feeling up to it.
As for the rest, it's over. And Lindsey isn't going back. Ever.

[Netter75]

From what information we currently have, Stevie's a complete diva who can't seem to compromise and just get along with Lindsey and used her importance to the bands success as leverage to evict him. Mick is greedy and just follows the money and the McVie's are towing the company line as usual. They did Lindsey dirty on that one.

So I'd be riding the hate train that most of the remaining members of this forum are cruising on except for two things:

1. I don't know any of them, so I'm not very invested in their interpersonal struggles except how it's reflected in the music. I was never under the impression that their relationships went further than co-workers with patchy histories, that their stage act was anything more than an act, or that any of them were especially altruistic people. Therefore I don't feel especially betrayed by any of their behavior. This is why I'm not filled with seething rage like others, and I wouldn't be if Stevie or Christine were ousted in the same way.

2. This is gonna sound bad, but its just my opinion. I'm really not that big a fan of Lindsey's in the first place. That being said, He's an amazing guitar player (I love listening to tracks he guests on and recognizing his distinctive playing style), I acknowledge that his production is the entire reason Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango were as succesful as they were, that Stevie's demos in the 70s were perfectly realized by him, etc. I also love everything he did prior to 1979 (Frozen Love, Without a Leg to Stand On, Crystal, Monday Morning, I'm So Afraid Live, GYOW, etc).

The problem is that he starts to lose me on a lot of "Tusk" outside of the title song. I'm trying to get into it but it's difficult. His vocals past this point don't do a whole lot for me either. He sounds fine when he's singing loud and confidently (Big Love, WTWCT, Peacekeeper, Doing What I Can, On With the Show) but I can't stand those whispery vocals he uses so often (they RUIN "game of pretend" for me). It sounds like a completely different artist than the one from Rumours and I just can't adapt to it like I can with Stevie and Christine. Can't stand much from his first two solo albums either besides the lead singles. Out of the Cradle is much more listenable. I also think he kind of went off the deep end with his production technique since Tango. I think a lot of Say You Will or Buckingham McVie would have been better if they were produced by someone else. The songs sound really hollow, cold and synthesized. You listen to the TISGL version of Thrown Down, and while the guitar playing is not as good/distinct and the vocals are worse, I prefer the warmer production style of the 2001 version of the song. It's not all bad, there's great songs on those albums, but still.

This is the main reason why I'm not as bummed about his firing as I would have been if Stevie or Christine had been. Call me a filthy casual fan or whatever, but I'd rather hear Second Hand News, Go Your Own Way, and Monday Morning in concert than the acoustic Big Love, I Know I'm Not Wrong, or Not That Funny. I am quite sad that I'll never get to see his amazing guitar playing though.

Summary: Lindsey's firing has little to no impact on me at all, so I haven't given up on listening to their music and have not considered doing so.

[lovethemac1]

From what information we currently have, Stevie's a complete diva who can't seem to compromise and just get along with Lindsey and used her importance to the bands success as leverage to evict him. Mick is greedy and just follows the money and the McVie's are towing the company line as usual. They did Lindsey dirty on that one.

So I'd be riding the hate train that most of the remaining members of this forum are cruising on except for two things:

1. I don't know any of them, so I'm not very invested in their interpersonal struggles except how it's reflected in the music. I was never under the impression that their relationships went further than co-workers with patchy histories, that their stage act was anything more than an act, or that any of them were especially altruistic people. Therefore I don't feel especially betrayed by any of their behavior. This is why I'm not filled with seething rage like others, and I wouldn't be if Stevie or Christine were ousted in the same way.

2. This is gonna sound bad, but its just my opinion. I'm really not that big a fan of Lindsey's in the first place. That being said, He's an amazing guitar player (I love listening to tracks he guests on and recognizing his distinctive playing style), I acknowledge that his production is the entire reason Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango were as succesful as they were, that Stevie's demos in the 70s were perfectly realized by him, etc. I also love everything he did prior to 1979 (Frozen Love, Without a Leg to Stand On, Crystal, Monday Morning, I'm So Afraid Live, GYOW, etc).

The problem is that he starts to lose me on a lot of "Tusk" outside of the title song. I'm trying to get into it but it's difficult. His vocals past this point don't do a whole lot for me either. He sounds fine when he's singing loud and confidently (Big Love, WTWCT, Peacekeeper, Doing What I Can, On With the Show) but I can't stand those whispery vocals he uses so often (they RUIN "game of pretend" for me). It sounds like a completely different artist than the one from Rumours and I just can't adapt to it like I can with Stevie and Christine. Can't stand much from his first two solo albums either besides the lead singles. Out of the Cradle is much more listenable. I also think he kind of went off the deep end with his production technique since Tango. I think a lot of Say You Will or Buckingham McVie would have been better if they were produced by someone else. The songs sound really hollow, cold and synthesized. You listen to the TISGL version of Thrown Down, and while the guitar playing is not as good/distinct and the vocals are worse, I prefer the warmer production style of the 2001 version of the song. It's not all bad, there's great songs on those albums, but still.

This is the main reason why I'm not as bummed about his firing as I would have been if Stevie or Christine had been. Call me a filthy casual fan or whatever, but I'd rather hear Second Hand News, Go Your Own Way, and Monday Morning in concert than the acoustic Big Love, I Know I'm Not Wrong, or Not That Funny. I am quite sad that I'll never get to see his amazing guitar playing though.

Summary: Lindsey's firing has little to no impact on me at all, so I haven't given up on listening to their music and have not considered doing so.

I like the way you explained, very clearly, your stand. And although I don’t feel the same way, I respect your position. ESP because it discusses facts and doesn’t touch on heresay, unsubstantiated rumours or ridiculous innuendos.

So I won’t try to tell you that you’re wrong or crazy for feeling this way.

What makes me really mad is when someone tells me to “get over it already, it’s been a year, what is wrong with you, you must not have anything or substance in your life.” Why can’t people just respect that I WON’T get over this. We can all respect each other’s points of view without minimalizing or belittling. This band obviously filled a different spot in my life/heart than in others and that’s ok. Just don’t tell me to get over it. THAT’S annoying and condescending. Like your stance is more important or the right one.

It’s just different.

[elle]

Summary: Lindsey's firing has little to no impact on me at all, so I haven't given up on listening to their music and have not considered doing so.
great post. :thumbsup: clean facts and explanations, respecting others' opinions, and making a complete sense - we all don't like the same music or the same things, and that's what makes the world go around!

i can tell you that if Stevie were fired i would probably write a very similar post to what you wrote here (well, probably a little less respectful! :laugh: then again if that firing caused her to have a heart attack and never be able to sing again, it would be a very different story.:distress:) but yes, if she were fired i would be more than delighted not having to suffer through droning versions of Rhiannon, Sara, or Dreams anymore, or deal with chiffon-clad fans being enamored by the slow twirls. Buckingham McVie tour was fabulous, and having a few more FM songs added to their set plus Mick and John would be a-ok by me! :nod:

I like the way you explained, very clearly, your stand. And although I don’t feel the same way, I respect your position. ESP because it discusses facts and doesn’t touch on heresay, unsubstantiated rumours or ridiculous innuendos.
exactly. such nicely explained position.

[estranged4life]

on 'em 10 years ago. :D

[jwd]

The only one I'm interested now is Lindsey. FM present day doesn't exist to me. I'll always cherish the music made before Lindsey's unfair dismissal. But the rest of them can go take a flying leap. DONE!

[singertobe]

Its so disappointing to me because I always related to Stevie. When I was in grade school and being made fun of for being a fantasy geek who always wore flowy dresses and didn't have a boyfriend, it felt like Stevie was a sort of kindred spirit. I'd look at her and think that maybe I wasn't crazy for liking the things I liked because here's a famous woman who likes those same things. I feel like I've been lied to. I'm back to being that lonely fantasy geek.

[StreetAngel86]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

i went to the US a few weeks ago and it WASNT for a FM concert.
It was a real turning point. :thumbsup:

[bombaysaffires]

Its so disappointing to me because I always related to Stevie. When I was in grade school and being made fun of for being a fantasy geek who always wore flowy dresses and didn't have a boyfriend, it felt like Stevie was a sort of kindred spirit. I'd look at her and think that maybe I wasn't crazy for liking the things I liked because here's a famous woman who likes those same things. I feel like I've been lied to. I'm back to being that lonely fantasy geek.


well, she WAS those things at one time. It's just that fame and fortune went to her head, reinforced by a circle of enablers. She became more and more isolated and disconnected from any real contact with daily life as most people know it. So for me I still like the stuff she did then, because it wasn't fully tainted. If that helps you feel better about it all.... :wavey:

[SteveMacD]

I gave up on them in 2006 after a Lindsey solo show when he said something like “I wrote this song after I realized a dream I had wouldn’t come true, and I had to mourn the loss of that dream.” I vowed the ONLY I’d see them again is if Christine came back…

The Stevie/Lindsey relationship crap during that time was nauseating.

Christine coming back restored my interest in them. The more of Mick, John, and Christine I can get at this point, the better. And, I love that she had a few extended solos this tour.

[michelej1]

I gave up on them in 2006 after a Lindsey solo show when he said something like “I wrote this song after I realized a dream I had wouldn’t come true, and I had to mourn the loss of that dream.” I vowed the ONLY I’d see them again is if Christine came back…

The Stevie/Lindsey relationship crap during that time was nauseating.



Why did Lindsey saying that in a solo show make you give up? What did you think he meant by that? I don’t think that Lindsey would perpetuate a false, star-crossed Stevie and Lindsey drama at a solo concert.

[lovethemac1]

Why did Lindsey saying that in a solo show make you give up? What did you think he meant by that? I don’t think that Lindsey would perpetuate a false, star-crossed Stevie and Lindsey drama at a solo concert.

I agree 100%. He rarely, if ever, talks about Stevie at this solo shows.

It could have been a referral to any previous girlfriends that he had, or any situation in his life, for that matter.

[The Chain]

Why did Lindsey saying that in a solo show make you give up? What did you think he meant by that? I don’t think that Lindsey would perpetuate a false, star-crossed Stevie and Lindsey drama at a solo concert.

Exactly:rolleyes:..

I always thought (or hoped) he meant he had given up on recording another album as/with Fleetwood Mac, actually collaborating with Stevie for once, after all these years.. Ya know, a real full circle, organic thing;) That he had finally laid that hope to rest.. then Chris coming back rekindled that dream for him.

[elle]

Why did Lindsey saying that in a solo show make you give up? What did you think he meant by that? I don’t think that Lindsey would perpetuate a false, star-crossed Stevie and Lindsey drama at a solo concert.

It sounds like Cast Away Dreams intro. I always understood that as finally giving up on being a commercial solo artist - something he pursued at the OOTC time and why he was sitting on OOTC for so long making it come out at exactly the wrong time to be commercial. If you watch his documentary that comes with Bass Hall it is pretty clear he was stuck on whether or not to still try something commercial solo, or just release stuff without worrying too much.

If you think this was about some kind of shipperdom thing, that’s your own problem.

IMO, although many say that the recent happenings are about Stevie still being stuck on LB romantically while he moved on long time ago and she finally realized that, I always maintain that while those 2 have weird symbiotic relationship it’s not nearly as much about the couple thing as people romanticize and as they’d like you to think, but about competition about their careers. They both know neither one would be as successful as they are without the other and they probably both hate it. Just look at the ridiculous fan discussions of its all one or its all the other ongoing all over social media.

Like I think last night I saw someone posted here “it wouldn’t be FM without Stevie” - well, guess what, I bet that person goes ballistic when someone says “ it’s not FM without Lindsey”. :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Like I think last night I saw someone posted here “it wouldn’t be FM without Stevie” - well, guess what, I bet that person goes ballistic when someone says “ it’s not FM without Lindsey”. :laugh:

It was all I could do to not post that response! :p

A couple of her people just wear me out, where it's not even satisfying to post a smart assed response to their idiocy.

[michelej1]

Things are about Stevie, for instance some of us long said that the UTS intro was about her and it turns out it was. But you have to look for these connections. Sometimes it seems that non-shippers, who say they are disgusted by SNL, go as far out of their way to look for romance that’s not there than shippers do. Hearing that song intro from Lindsey would not have made me think about Stevie, unless I was going to the concert waiting to hear hints of Stevie.

Don’t get me wrong, I remember coming back from concerts and me relaying what the new lyrics were and I would report penny arcade of Edgar Allan Poe and then we would begin to connect that to Stevie lyrics. But I was *looking* for that. If you go and you aren’t looking to hear something then I don’t think a song about a dream that died would make me think, “oh he’s trying to capitalize on the SNL fanaticism.”

[BigAl84]

It's like a poorly made cocktail.

Technically you can make a martini with sweet vermouth, but there's not guarantee it will be any good and won't taste like a$$.

You can try and replace Lindsey, but it's probably going to taste like a$$.

[SteveMacD]

Why did Lindsey saying that in a solo show make you give up?

It was a time and place thing, and the comment just rubbed me the wrong way. At the time, I was working at a homeless shelter and my uncle, who had been the main father figure in my life, had just died.

Frankly, the whole psychobabble-as-banter thing never worked for me, but those comments, from someone who has had an amazingly successful career in popular music, just reeked of spoiled privilege. Part of my job at the time was counseling people who had actually lost everything and/or people who had been victimized, like gang raped (men and women). Like, sorry Mr. Multimillionaire Critically Acclaimed Rock Star that you didn’t make more money. I’ll say a prayer for you.

It was Saturday, my day off, and I just wanted a good time at a rock show, forget about life for a few hours. I should mention that I had recently lost 175 pounds, and Lindsey’s brand of coffee house karaoke rock wasn’t especially cutting it for me. I wanted him to dog Glen Frey and kick ass, not remind me of work. I remember Minnesota David asked if I wanted to meet Lindsey. I said no, went to my car, and the first thing I asked was if Robert Pollard was playing somewhere and vowed no more Fleetwood Mac without Christine. The rest is history.

[lovethemac1]

It was a time and place thing, and the comment just rubbed me the wrong way. At the time, I was working at a homeless shelter and my uncle, who had been the main father figure in my life, had just died.

Frankly, the whole psychobabble-as-banter thing never worked for me, but those comments, from someone who has had an amazingly successful career in popular music, just reeked of spoiled privilege. Part of my job at the time was counseling people who had actually lost everything and/or people who had been victimized, like gang raped (men and women). Like, sorry Mr. Multimillionaire Critically Acclaimed Rock Star that you didn’t make more money. I’ll say a prayer for you.

It was Saturday, my day off, and I just wanted a good time at a rock show, forget about life for a few hours. I should mention that I had recently lost 175 pounds, and Lindsey’s brand of coffee house karaoke rock wasn’t especially cutting it for me. I wanted him to dog Glen Frey and kick ass, not remind me of work. I remember Minnesota David asked if I wanted to meet Lindsey. I said no, went to my car, and the first thing I asked was if Robert Pollard was playing somewhere and vowed no more Fleetwood Mac without Christine. The rest is history.

This explains where your stance on the band sans Lindsey comes from. Thank you for explaining that.

And very sorry that you had such a poor experience, both at the concert and during that time of your life.

[sodascouts]

It was a time and place thing, and the comment just rubbed me the wrong way. At the time, I was working at a homeless shelter and my uncle, who had been the main father figure in my life, had just died.

Frankly, the whole psychobabble-as-banter thing never worked for me, but those comments, from someone who has had an amazingly successful career in popular music, just reeked of spoiled privilege. Part of my job at the time was counseling people who had actually lost everything and/or people who had been victimized, like gang raped (men and women). Like, sorry Mr. Multimillionaire Critically Acclaimed Rock Star that you didn’t make more money. I’ll say a prayer for you.

It was Saturday, my day off, and I just wanted a good time at a rock show, forget about life for a few hours. I should mention that I had recently lost 175 pounds, and Lindsey’s brand of coffee house karaoke rock wasn’t especially cutting it for me. I wanted him to dog Glen Frey and kick ass, not remind me of work. I remember Minnesota David asked if I wanted to meet Lindsey. I said no, went to my car, and the first thing I asked was if Robert Pollard was playing somewhere and vowed no more Fleetwood Mac without Christine. The rest is history.

It sounds like a lot of your opinions about Lindsey's music might actually spring from your own personal issues. That's understandable, when you are going through a hard time. It also explains a few things.

BTW, why would you want - and apparently expect - Lindsey to say nasty things about Glenn Frey, of all people?

[SteveMacD]

It sounds like a lot of your opinions about Lindsey's music might actually spring from your own personal issues. That's understandable, when you are going through a hard time. It also explains a few things.
To be fair, I had been a fan for nearly twenty years and had seen him five previous times (Mac and solo) by that point. I never liked his banter, but it really hit a nerve at that show as did wondering if it was live or if it was Memorex.

I’d take a sloppy drunk lead guitar solo and an off key vocalist over piped in music and modulated vocals every time.
BTW, why would you want - and apparently expect - Lindsey to say nasty things about Glenn Frey, of all people?

Glen was still alive, and it was more about The Eagles-Fleetwood Mac rivalry. Dogging on other artists is something Bob Pollard does (he actually has a couple of live albums of just his banter called “Relaxation of the A**hole” that are hilarious), which is way more rock than going over a therapy session with an audience.

[elle]

It sounds like a lot of your opinions about Lindsey's music might actually spring from your own personal issues. That's understandable, when you are going through a hard time. It also explains a few things.
to be fair, Steve did go to see Lindsey in November. although not sure why he's going to see artists who annoy him so much. :shrug:

also, why ever go see any millionaire nostalgia acts that keep shoveling away their money and make a point not to express opinions on anyone or anything, if that's what you care about?

[SteveMacD]

to be fair, Steve did go to see Lindsey in November. although not sure why he's going to see artists who annoy him so much. :shrug:

His music is part of the soundtrack of my life. Since I was thirteen. I literally went from comic books to Fleetwood Mac. I don’t dislike Lindsey, but Fleetwood Mac doesn’t begin or end with him, either.

also, why ever go see any millionaire nostalgia acts that keep shoveling away their money and make a point not to express opinions on anyone or anything, if that's what you care about?
Huh? I love the music. From Mayall to today. But, Lindsey needs to keep it just to the music. I think he thinks he sounds profound, but to me he sounds like an entitled idiot.

[elle]

His music is part of the soundtrack of my life. Since I was thirteen. I literally went from comic books to Fleetwood Mac. I don’t dislike Lindsey, but Fleetwood Mac doesn’t begin or end with him, either.


Huh? I love the music. From Mayall to today. But, Lindsey needs to keep it just to the music. I think he thinks he sounds profound, but to me he sounds like an entitled idiot.

so you want him to keep it to just music, or you want him to dish on Fray and whoever? :lol:

he is an entitled idiot. but compared to Mick and Stevie? he's a freakin saint. those people have no clue what reality is and think they are entitled not to ever have to.

[fleetwoodguy79]

I've given up trying to explain my feeling to friends, family and coworkers. My sig other is about the only person on earth besides people here that even remotely understand. Layers and layers of emotion. There's no succinct way to explain it. How can people relate when they haven't followed the band and the solo projects for decades. I fear everything that's gone on with the firing, lying, LB health issue etc, etc has permanently altered my relationship with the music. This is the first time in my life I've wished I could be one of those casual fans who hear a song, sing along and breeze on to the next song.

I read here regularly. There are so many times I want to comment but I don't have the energy.....it's like my brain is working but I can't will my body to do the work. I don't know. Maybe I'll feel differently in a few years but I doubt it. Someone will die or release a new album or tour or whatever and it will start up again for me. Sounds like crazy talk at their age (albums/tours) but anything can happen as we've seen.

What the hell do I do with all the stuff I've accumulated over the years?? I can't even contemplate it so I do nothing. I always took pride in MY band being one of the very few classic bands that still has its original lineup (original as in Rumours 5 is what most people think of as original)--that's blown to bits now.

I can't even discuss Stevie--she was always my favorite member but.........The worst part is I'm not a sycophant. No matter how much I love someones music I can still be objective about the people playing the music. I know they're flawed people as we all are. I've always accepted the drama as part of FM. I've never propped any of them up as perfect people cause they're not and I never expected them to be.
From the very beginning I never wanted to be team Stevie or team Lindsey. I want to be team FM.

Just sharing my feelings here. I'm sure some can relate while others may disagree--that's okay. Each fan has such an individual relationship to the band and the music. That's another thing that upsets me. The uniqueness of that has been damaged.
Sorry for the gloom and thanks for letting me post my inner Eeyore.

I feel you. Deeply.

I’ll share this. I’m not comfortable with it yet, but I know I’m supposed to talk about it more. It’s taken me 25 years to say this, blocked out of my memory...

I was abused as a child. That was really difficult to write. I couldn’t even begin to tell you what it was like growing up as a teenager as a result.

The one and only thing that I could count on every day was the comfort of this band. Specifically, the pain and beauty that Lindsey was able to communicate through his music. They all helped me get through that period of my life and I’ve never felt the same about anything else in my life. I loved this band. I might not be here if I didn’t have them back then.

This situation over the past year has been a cause of my walls coming down... I stopped being able to cope. I didn’t even know that it was there.

In some ways, I’m grateful for the situation as it’s allowed for me to get help. However, I can’t help feel like something in the universe is irreverably broken and forever changed. I miss them. They won’t get any more of my money. But they still will get some of my love for what they meant to me.

Lindsey - on the other hand - will be a man that I will support until my last breath. Some days, I wish that I could tell him how much he means to me...

[SteveMacD]

so you want him to keep it to just music, or you want him to dish on Fray and whoever? :lol:
I’d rather he stick to the music, but if he has to talk, either make it quick or make it funny, but for the love of God, enough of the psychobabble. Nobody cares about your arrested development FFS.

he is an entitled idiot. but compared to Mick and Stevie? he's a freakin saint. those people have no clue what reality is and think they are entitled not to ever have to.
That’s especially why I love the McVies.

[bombaysaffires]

It sounds like Cast Away Dreams intro. I always understood that as finally giving up on being a commercial solo artist - something he pursued at the OOTC time and why he was sitting on OOTC for so long making it come out at exactly the wrong time to be commercial. If you watch his documentary that comes with Bass Hall it is pretty clear he was stuck on whether or not to still try something commercial solo, or just release stuff without worrying too much.

If you think this was about some kind of shipperdom thing, that’s your own problem.

IMO, although many say that the recent happenings are about Stevie still being stuck on LB romantically while he moved on long time ago and she finally realized that, I always maintain that while those 2 have weird symbiotic relationship it’s not nearly as much about the couple thing as people romanticize and as they’d like you to think, but about competition about their careers. They both know neither one would be as successful as they are without the other and they probably both hate it. Just look at the ridiculous fan discussions of its all one or its all the other ongoing all over social media.

Like I think last night I saw someone posted here “it wouldn’t be FM without Stevie” - well, guess what, I bet that person goes ballistic when someone says “ it’s not FM without Lindsey”. :laugh:


YES. :nod:

[Lola]

I'm sorry you suffered through that. I didn't expect to read anything like that in response to my post. At first I thought about not responding cause I don't know what to say but that didn't feel right. All I can say is I'm so sorry bad things happened to you. Sincerely. Hugs to you.

As for LB--- I'll cont to support him whole heartedly!

[David]

Things are about Stevie, for instance some of us long said that the UTS intro was about her and it turns out it was. But you have to look for these connections. Sometimes it seems that non-shippers, who say they are disgusted by SNL, go as far out of their way to look for romance that’s not there than shippers do.
The thing that always drove me temperamentally away from my friend Nancy's board of relationship-centered interpretations wasn't the fiction of the relationship itself but the insistence on anywhere and everywhere reading autobiography into every lyric. It always made me think back to my college lit courses in authorial intent and Wimsatt and Beardsley's intentional fallacy, and how it's overshooting to continually assume that a songwriter's lyrics are either deeply personal or even autobiographically factual at all. There's no internal (internal to the song) evidence that "Did she make you break down?" is a second-person address to Lindsey Buckingham in the real world. Stevie might have said that it was—I don't know—but it doesn't necessarily follow that, just because we know real-world Stevie sent real-world Lindsey packing and he took it hard, the lyric itself relates that real-world reaction in any way. But the shippers and others project and project. By virtue of sheer amount, some projecting is probably actually factual. But it's the constant projecting that alienates me. Does every little phrase in a Stevie Nicks lyric that touches on passionate emotional ambivalence have to do with Lindsey? Shipper reactions are fictions about fictions. Of course, Stevie's mode of writing lends itself to such responses, and that's also why I don't think Stevie is one of the great writers: she never seems to stand back from her characters and observe them with any detachment or irony. The emotions they are experiencing are always and completely the emotions that we listeners are supposed to be connecting to with total ingenuousness. It's all very unsophisticated.

[michelej1]

Of course, Stevie's mode of writing lends itself to such responses, and that's also why I don't think Stevie is one of the great writers: she never seems to stand back from her characters and observe them with any detachment or irony. The emotions they are experiencing are always and completely the emotions that we listeners are supposed to be connecting to with total ingenuousness. It's all very unsophisticated.

What I love about SYLM is that he doesn't love her and Christine manages to convey that on one hand, tucking reality neatly beneath frothy romance. The song conveys two contradictory messages in my mind: what she would like to be the truth and what is the truth. I've always thought that was very clever.

Stevie ... thinking about what you wrote, I've thought that EFO does have a certain detachment. I see the protagonist as fooling herself. She exudes false bravado. She taunts. He adores her. They do it everywhere they can, every time they can get away. Get away! (much like Paul's alleged "get back" to Yoko). But none of it's true and she's really dying inside. The lyrics always gave me the impression of an outside narrator looking in, detached, shrewd, sad, witnessing someone else's delusion. But we listeners, what are we supposed to feel? Are we cheering the affair? I think yes, in a way. The pounding disco music says triumph. We dance as "the other woman" chortles. We support her. I don't know if we are necessarily supposed to be connecting to the despair.

Anne Lindbergh once described Charles feeding their daughter. He would dangle a cherry in her face and when she would look up at it, mouth ajar, he'd stick a vegetable in her mouth. I think that's what EFO does.

I mean, I don't think it's the sophisticated song you requested, but I think it conveys more than what's on the shallow surface, because it strikes me as both celebration and doom.

[bwboy]

The one and only thing that I could count on every day was the comfort of this band. Specifically, the pain and beauty that Lindsey was able to communicate through his music. They all helped me get through that period of my life and I’ve never felt the same about anything else in my life. I loved this band. I might not be here if I didn’t have them back then.

This situation over the past year has been a cause of my walls coming down... I stopped being able to cope. I didn’t even know that it was there.

Thanks for sharing, fleetwoodguy79. The power of music should never be underestimated. You will get through this.

If it's not too personal, I would love to know some of the songs that helped you during that difficult time.

[bombaysaffires]

What I love about SYLM is that he doesn't love her and Christine manages to convey that on one hand, tucking reality neatly beneath frothy romance. The song conveys two contradictory messages in my mind: what she would like to be the truth and what is the truth. I've always thought that was very clever.

Stevie ... thinking about what you wrote, I've thought that EFO does have a certain detachment. I see the protagonist as fooling herself. She exudes false bravado. She taunts. He adores her. They do it everywhere they can, every time they can get away. Get away! (much like Paul's alleged "get back" to Yoko). But none of it's true and she's really dying inside. The lyrics always gave me the impression of an outside narrator looking in, detached, shrewd, sad, witnessing someone else's delusion. But we listeners, what are we supposed to feel? Are we cheering the affair? I think yes, in a way. The pounding disco music says triumph. We dance as "the other woman" chortles. We support her. I don't know if we are necessarily supposed to be connecting to the despair.

Anne Lindbergh once described Charles feeding their daughter. He would dangle a cherry in her face and when she would look up at it, mouth ajar, he'd stick a vegetable in her mouth. I think that's what EFO does.

I mean, I don't think it's the sophisticated song you requested, but I think it conveys more than what's on the shallow surface, because it strikes me as both celebration and doom.

I honestly think the second "get away" is just an aural flourish, i.e. there needs to be an additional couple of syllables at the end of the line which isn't enough to express a new thought so she repeats the "get away", like an echo. I think reading it as otherwise is over thinking it.

[michelej1]

I honestly think the second "get away" is just an aural flourish, i.e. there needs to be an additional couple of syllables at the end of the line which isn't enough to express a new thought so she repeats the "get away", like an echo. I think reading it as otherwise is over thinking it.

I take it as meaning both things. Every time we can get away and telling the wife to step off. I don't mind overthinking.

[Street_Dreamer]

I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.

[button-lip]

I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.

Beautifully said. Every word of it. Too bad some people here get bored easily and quit reading. That’s why they start with phrases like: “he left the band”, “he must have done something”, “he was pushing Stevie for a new album”, and other crap they can come up with.

We deserved better. At least some of us. And they didn’t care.

[lovethemac1]

I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.

Beautifully written. Thank you.

[SteveMacD]

The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.
Can’t help but notice Dave Mason, Bekka, and Billy his second time in the band weren’t mentioned. They never got to tour in support of “Time” (their touring was prior to its release) because Mick disbanded Fleetwood Mac after he started working with Lindsey again. Mick took the path of least resistance to maximize his earning potential. Sound familiar?

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years.
Seems like the last album of new material from any of them (unless you count the new Neil & Liam Finn album which featured Mick on a few songs) featured four of them and two of them toured to support it.

Let’s be honest, the problem is who doesn’t want to do another album, which might still be the case.

The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right.
The reality is that she has all of the power because she played the game better than anyone else in the band.

[HomerMcvie]

I know in the big scope of things, my opinion really doesn't matter. I just cannot accept the current lineup. The firing of previous members of the band like Danny, Dave Walker and Bob Weston made sense given the circumstances. The other members left on their own accord including Peter, Jeremy and Bob Welch. The same holds true for Lindsey, Christine, Stevie, Rick and the short period that Billy left the band.

The circumstances surrounding Lindsey's firing doesn't sit well with me. Of all the Rumours group, he was the only one who wanted to make a new album and tour for the past several years. It would be fine if he wanted to walk away on his own terms but that obviously didn't happen. The fact that he was ousted by one member of the band wasn't right. With the recent news where the truth of his firing came out shows what cowards they all are. This was a chance for the band to properly bookend everything and end on a beautiful note. Instead we have this. It has stained and tarnished Fleetwood Mac's legacy.

Lindsey deserved better. Fans deserved better. It is so disheartening and so sad that this will be how the band ends. Sorry Peter, Bob B., Jeremy, Danny, Bob Weston, Dave W., Bob Welch, Billy, Rick, Bekka and Dave M. You all made beautiful music and will be remembered positively for your contributions to the band and for not trying to oust anyone for your own selfish reasons.

That was beautifully said. Money and HUGE egos overtook the band.

Stevie is worst thing that EVER happened to FM. Yet, for idiot Mick, the best thing. RIP, FM.

I hope history recognizes what a stupid egomaniac she is, and how she ruined the band's legacy. F**K HER.

[Macfan4life]

I don't even listen to FM on the radio anymore. If they come on, I turn the channel. I do listen to GYOW and maybe a deep cut like Warm Ways if it comes on but other than that I am even sick of hearing them.
Maybe I am no longer a fan because I don't even listen to their music anymore.


When Chris re-joined I could not wait to hear her live in concert immediately. I did not see the Unleashed tour and pretty much had given up on the band. Chris re-started my interest in the band. However, looking back it would have been better for the band to go into the studio for a year prior to touring. But we did get Buck/Vie which is such a treat.


All of our opinions matter but I get a kick out of the few who bash the band for not making new music and at the same time don't like or bash Say You Will and Buck/Vie.
Both albums ARE Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey did a fantastic job on both and I appreciate both for different reasons. If you don't like or appreciate these efforts its unlikely you would appreciate anything different just because Stevie is overdubbed into the sound.

What's the most frustrating about being a FM member is IMHO a major part of the band died after Mirage. All the famous 5 line up never created another "commercial free pressure " album since 1979's Tusk. Let me explain: After Tusk, the band felt commercial pressure to make something more radio friendly pop. While Mirage is a great album there was pressure to strip them a little of their creativity. After Mirage and the solo stuff, Tango is pretty much a Lindsey solo project and the pressure to make it commercially successful was even stronger than Mirage. The band had not created anything for half a decade and Mick was in bankruptcy. After Tango the core 5 don't reunite until the Dance where the band only toured with 3 new live songs. HUGE mistake IMHO. After the Dance Christine leaves and Say You Will was without lots of commercial pressure but it still existed but it was without one core member.
So long story short, could you imagine another "Tusk" like album from the 5 that let them be as creative as they wanted?

I think that is what frustrates me from being a fan for so long. I do like Behind the Mask because it expresses creativity that Tango never had but it also scared the band for being a flop in the USA. A Fleetwood Mac album not selling well and no major hits. But I don't care about hits, I care about the music.

[mitzo]

I don't even listen to FM on the radio anymore. If they come on, I turn the channel. I do listen to GYOW and maybe a deep cut like Warm Ways if it comes on but other than that I am even sick of hearing them.
Maybe I am no longer a fan because I don't even listen to their music anymore.


When Chris re-joined I could not wait to hear her live in concert immediately. I did not see the Unleashed tour and pretty much had given up on the band. Chris re-started my interest in the band. However, looking back it would have been better for the band to go into the studio for a year prior to touring. But we did get Buck/Vie which is such a treat.


All of our opinions matter but I get a kick out of the few who bash the band for not making new music and at the same time don't like or bash Say You Will and Buck/Vie.
Both albums ARE Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey did a fantastic job on both and I appreciate both for different reasons. If you don't like or appreciate these efforts its unlikely you would appreciate anything different just because Stevie is overdubbed into the sound.

What's the most frustrating about being a FM member is IMHO a major part of the band died after Mirage. All the famous 5 line up never created another "commercial free pressure " album since 1979's Tusk. Let me explain: After Tusk, the band felt commercial pressure to make something more radio friendly pop. While Mirage is a great album there was pressure to strip them a little of their creativity. After Mirage and the solo stuff, Tango is pretty much a Lindsey solo project and the pressure to make it commercially successful was even stronger than Mirage. The band had not created anything for half a decade and Mick was in bankruptcy. After Tango the core 5 don't reunite until the Dance where the band only toured with 3 new live songs. HUGE mistake IMHO. After the Dance Christine leaves and Say You Will was without lots of commercial pressure but it still existed but it was without one core member.
So long story short, could you imagine another "Tusk" like album from the 5 that let them be as creative as they wanted?

I think that is what frustrates me from being a fan for so long. I do like Behind the Mask because it expresses creativity that Tango never had but it also scared the band for being a flop in the USA. A Fleetwood Mac album not selling well and no major hits. But I don't care about hits, I care about the music.

I love this and feel much the same, really. So tired of pretending it is 1980 still. The band has produced so little, and chunks of the post-Mirage stuff is dross. Always trying too hard, missing a key member, or recycling Rumours. Some say egos killed the band, I say Rumours did it.

[jbrownsjr]

The thing that always drove me temperamentally away from my friend Nancy's board of relationship-centered interpretations wasn't the fiction of the relationship itself but the insistence on anywhere and everywhere reading autobiography into every lyric. It always made me think back to my college lit courses in authorial intent and Wimsatt and Beardsley's intentional fallacy, and how it's overshooting to continually assume that a songwriter's lyrics are either deeply personal or even autobiographically factual at all. There's no internal (internal to the song) evidence that "Did she make you break down?" is a second-person address to Lindsey Buckingham in the real world. Stevie might have said that it was—I don't know—but it doesn't necessarily follow that, just because we know real-world Stevie sent real-world Lindsey packing and he took it hard, the lyric itself relates that real-world reaction in any way. But the shippers and others project and project. By virtue of sheer amount, some projecting is probably actually factual. But it's the constant projecting that alienates me. Does every little phrase in a Stevie Nicks lyric that touches on passionate emotional ambivalence have to do with Lindsey? Shipper reactions are fictions about fictions. Of course, Stevie's mode of writing lends itself to such responses, and that's also why I don't think Stevie is one of the great writers: she never seems to stand back from her characters and observe them with any detachment or irony. The emotions they are experiencing are always and completely the emotions that we listeners are supposed to be connecting to with total ingenuousness. It's all very unsophisticated.

Honestly, this is how I felt as well. It became such a turn-off to me. Further, shippers would block out any talk of Christine and even began to hate her. Later on came the nasty things that they would say about her.

When she re-joined: The "Christine destroyed the band by returning!" surfaced.

[elle]

Honestly, this is how I felt as well. It became such a turn-off to me. Further, shippers would block out any talk of Christine and even began to hate her. Later on came the nasty things that they would say about her.

When she re-joined: The "Christine destroyed the band by returning!" surfaced.

it's really the weirdest reasoning.

if they were so fragile that having all 5 together will "destroy" them, then something was very wrong in the first place. :shrug:

[elle]

The reality is that she has all of the power because she played the game better than anyone else in the band.
exactly! :thumbsup:

some people are good in making music, others are good in business or marketing side of it. various people, various talents.

[michelej1]

it's really the weirdest reasoning.

if they were so fragile that having all 5 together will "destroy" them, then something was very wrong in the first place. :shrug:

Well, the relationship was always wrong. But the reason that having Christine back could interfere with it is that you always have a third person to turn to. Lindsay has said that Christine contributed to his break up with Stevie in the seventies. He said that they were shaky to begin with and maybe they would’ve made it, maybe they would not have, but having Christine, who was also divorcing, talking to Stevie sealed the break up.

This time, just having Christine back allowed both Lindsey and Stevie to turn away from each other. In the past, since SYW, they were stuck, forced to fight and compromise. Christine removed the forced compromise factor. I realized that she would from the beginning, but I thought that it would work in my favor, not against me. I thought that with Christine back we would get a new FM album, for example, because I thought it would make it 2 against 1. Michele

[sue]

That was beautifully said. Money and HUGE egos overtook the band.

Stevie is worst thing that EVER happened to FM. Yet, for idiot Mick, the best thing. RIP, FM.

I hope history recognizes what a stupid egomaniac she is, and how she ruined the band's legacy. F**K HER.

They are ALL stupid big egos with greed, greed, more, more money attached.
Not one of them is any better or worse than the other, well maybe Mick, she just played the game better?? and definitely to the end.

I would add that THE FM most of us know and adore are nothing without Buckingham/Nicks

[jbrownsjr]

first thing I asked was if Robert Pollard was playing somewhere and vowed no more Fleetwood Mac without Christine. The rest is history.

Fleetwood Mac without Christine Perfect/McVie is so incomplete and dry. I had a hard time with it.

I love her contributions to the Peter Green days. She's an entity and a style. I'm blessed to have been able to listen to their full library.

[jcalzaretta]

I feel I am the only one who was not there with the band for all the issues. You all seem to have been there every step of the way to know what all has happened. I guess I missed so all I know is a lot of speculation and that there are always more than 2 sides to a story. Thus, I will continue to enjoy the music I love so much and be a fan of all.

[Jondalar]

Hardly anyone is on this site anymore and that’s because of her behavior.

[mitzo]

;1251418]Hardly anyone is on this site anymore and that’s because of her behavior.
It is because of the behavior of forum members who have bullied a lot of people away.

[HomerMcvie]

It is because of the behavior of forum members who have bullied a lot of people away.

This site isn't a shrine to $tevie. $he is held accountable for her actions here.

I'd say 80% of fans are primarily $tevie fans, and they can't handle the truth.

Oh well...:lol:

[button-lip]

Hardly anyone is on this site anymore and that’s because of her behavior.

Please, be more respectful. She was a “cleaning lady” while Lindsey was at home smoking pot. I swear sometimes I think she got him fired just because of that incident 45 years ago. I mean, she told it so many times with the same venom in her eyes and her voice that you start to wonder if that was the real reason behind her masterful plan. :rolleyes:

[ryan4136]

I’ve listened to FM less this year, than I regularly would’ve in 1 month. That makes me sad. I haven’t pulled out FM vinyl since the firing. I love the music, but get no joy out of hearing it now. Only sadness.

The acceptance ( especially in light to LBs Illness) that it really is over this time, is tough to swallow.

[jwd]

I haven't given up on Lindsey coming back 100% with his searing guitar, drownding out that nasal voice of Stevie Nicks.

[MissJanet]

Honestly, this is how I felt as well. It became such a turn-off to me. Further, shippers would block out any talk of Christine and even began to hate her. Later on came the nasty things that they would say about her.

When she re-joined: The "Christine destroyed the band by returning!" surfaced.That was the last straw for me, too. I cannot see why some female fans feel the need to put Christine down to make their devotion to Stevie clear. And I have no doubt that Stevie would not appreciate that kind of behaviour.
The worst for me? Fanfiction writers writing NC17 fanfiction of Lindsey/Stevie - there is a line and they crossed it. I understand fandom, but that is just plain respectless and super creepy imho.

[jbrownsjr]

That was the last straw for me, too. I cannot see why some female fans feel the need to put Christine down to make their devotion to Stevie clear. And I have no doubt that Stevie would not appreciate that kind of behaviour.
The worst for me? Fanfiction writers writing NC17 fanfiction of Lindsey/Stevie - there is a line and they crossed it. I understand fandom, but that is just plain respectless and super creepy imho.

Creepy was the word that used to pop into my head when reading their theories and stories.

[mitzo]

Creepy was the word that used to pop into my head when reading their theories and stories.

Mmh hmm, like a lot of the stuff here about Stevie, especially since she fired Tiny.

[jbrownsjr]

Mmh hmm, like a lot of the stuff here about Stevie, especially since she fired Tiny.

Tiny? Don't get that reference.

[bombaysaffires]

Please, be more respectful. She was a “cleaning lady” while Lindsey was at home smoking pot. I swear sometimes I think she got him fired just because of that incident 45 years ago. I mean, she told it so many times with the same venom in her eyes and her voice that you start to wonder if that was the real reason behind her masterful plan. :rolleyes:

And the person she supposedly cleaned for, Keith Olsen, has talked about just how bad she was at it and how not into it she was, not really putting a lot of effort because, you know, princess was meant for better things. Like how she happily states that when starting out in her first band she refused to do those things people do like helping move amps or carrying a guitar case. She's a spoiled brat and always has been. She's lucky she came along when she did, because honestly, she would not make it starting out in today's music biz.

[Nicks Fan]

That was the last straw for me, too. I cannot see why some female fans feel the need to put Christine down to make their devotion to Stevie clear. And I have no doubt that Stevie would not appreciate that kind of behaviour.
The worst for me? Fanfiction writers writing NC17 fanfiction of Lindsey/Stevie - there is a line and they crossed it. I understand fandom, but that is just plain respectless and super creepy imho.

Some of the revisionist stories going around now or that have gone around in the past are quite something. The way they make SN out to be some battered woman who was terrorized for years by big bad Lindsey is laughable. A handful of incidents in 40 plus years is not worth going on about considering all the crap they all did to one another over the years.

[button-lip]

And the person she supposedly cleaned for, Keith Olsen, has talked about just how bad she was at it and how not into it she was, not really putting a lot of effort because, you know, princess was meant for better things. Like how she happily states that when starting out in her first band she refused to do those things people do like helping move amps or carrying a guitar case. She's a spoiled brat and always has been. She's lucky she came along when she did, because honestly, she would not make it starting out in today's music biz.

And even though we all know how bad she was at doing the cleaning thing (even her fans) she's STILL using that story to bash Lindsey, because that's pretty much all she has. It's a very diplomatic way of recognizing his effort and bashing him at the same time.

[michelej1]

And even though we all know how bad she was at doing the cleaning thing (even her fans) she's STILL using that story to bash Lindsey, because that's pretty much all she has. It's a very diplomatic way of recognizing his effort and bashing him at the same time.

Well, she’s kind of funny. When she says that Lindsey only lasted one day as a telemarketer, I have imagined many of his short-lived sales calls in my head and had hearty laughs.

But the truth is, Lindsey had separate sources of income be they occasional music gigs or money from family. He wasn’t dependent on her income even then. In fact she went away for months. She went back up north and he (and Richard) managed to make ends meet fine without her. She says when she returned she had to eat humble pie to move back in with him. I am sure he was smoking pot, hash, bouncing checks and being an overall degenerate but the idea that he needed her waitress tips to eat just isn’t true.

[button-lip]

Well, she’s kind of funny. When she says that Lindsey only lasted one day as a telemarketer, I have imagined many of his short-lived sales calls in my head and had hearty laughs.

But the truth is, Lindsey had separate sources of income be they occasional music gigs or money from family. He wasn’t dependent on her income even then. In fact she went away for months. She went back up north and he (and Richard) managed to make ends meet fine without her. She says when she returned she had to eat humble pie to move back in with him. I am sure he was smoking pot, hash, bouncing checks and being an overall degenerate but the idea that he needed her waitress tips to eat just isn’t true.

One can't help but wonder how many similar stories like the telemarketer one he has about her but he choose not to share just because it would put her under a negative light. :(

[SteveMacD]

Honestly, this is how I felt as well. It became such a turn-off to me. Further, shippers would block out any talk of Christine and even began to hate her. Later on came the nasty things that they would say about her.

When she re-joined: The "Christine destroyed the band by returning!" surfaced.

Please...

How could you possibly not see the chemistry between them???

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/d3/d6/d6d3d6a3e4010b0a3bf62ca658a7d629.jpg

[michelej1]

Please...

How could you possibly not see the chemistry between them???


You're trying to prove a point with that photo, but I don't get it. They are not looking at each other in the particular moment that photo was snapped, but the band broke up after a horrendous fight a year before and there they are at a wedding with their arms around each other. That doesn't exactly say no chemistry to me. Instead it says, "I wish I knew how to quit you."

I wish the band would be 1% as loving towards Lindsey now as they were after the Tango split.

[SteveMacD]

You're trying to prove a point with that photo, but I don't get it. They are not looking at each other in the particular moment that photo was snapped, but the band broke up after a horrendous fight a year before and there they are at a wedding with their arms around each other. That doesn't exactly say no chemistry to me. Instead it says, "I wish I knew how to quit you."
Oh FFS, it was just a joke, although this is probably more accurate than not.

I wish the band would be 1% as loving towards Lindsey now as they were after the Tango split.
Hell, even John was still complaining about Lindsey’s modus operandi in 94-95.

And as loving how? Returning his calls?

[michelej1]

Oh FFS, it was just a joke, although this is probably more accurate than not.


Hell, even John was still complaining about Lindsey’s modus operandi in 94-95.

And as loving how? Returning his calls?

Giving him an album dedication, practically making out with him when he appeared at BTM. Christine was standing there stroking his hair and neck.

John said he wanted him to leave the room, not leave the BAND.

And yes returning his calls, too.

[SteveMacD]

Giving him an album dedication, practically making out with him when he appeared at BTM. Christine was standing there stroking his hair and neck.
You mean when it was basically over? Sure, they also weren’t in an especially great place, but neither was he, as he soon learned. He d*cked around too much, and his career suffered.

John said he wanted him to leave the room, not leave the BAND.
John told Bass Player magazine in 1994-1995 that he never liked how Lindsey Buckingham told him how to play, not that he played what Lindsey suggested.

[michelej1]

I mean they never tried to ignore his contributions to the band and maintained a fairly cordial relationship with them. They showed caring, which is absent now.

I don’t see John’s comments about Lindsey as any big deal. Lindsey complains that John and Mick tried to make him use a pic. There are always complaints, but they should not expand into, say, trying to keep someone off of the Sirius radio channel.

[BigAl84]

You mean when it was basically over? Sure, they also weren’t in an especially great place, but neither was he, as he soon learned. He d*cked around too much, and his career suffered.


John told Bass Player magazine in 1994-1995 that he never liked how Lindsey Buckingham told him how to play, not that he played what Lindsey suggested.

LOL oh yea he really messed up by avoiding two stints in rehab and "wasting" his 40s in a drug induced haze. If anything his leave actually helped him.

[button-lip]

I mean they never tried to ignore his contributions to the band and maintained a fairly cordial relationship with them. They showed caring, which is absent now.

I don’t see John’s comments about Lindsey as any big deal. Lindsey complains that John and Mick tried to make him use a pic. There are always complaints, but they should not expand into, say, trying to keep someone off of the Sirius radio channel.

There was respect between them. They may not care about each other and they may not keep in touch but the respect as musician and fellow former bandmate was there. Now not only all that is gone but they're purposely trying to put him under a bad light. Why? I have no idea.

Some people will never get it. :shrug:

[SteveMacD]

Yep. We’ll never forget how he called Christine’s and Stevie’s solo shows lounge acts. Meanwhile, HIS first solo show had nine extra musicians and he did seven Fleetwood Mac songs in a seventeen song set. He still did five on his last, at times karaoke tour.

[michelej1]

I am not sure why nine musicians in a solo set is bad. I didn’t need the wall of guitars, but I don’t think they detracted from his own musicianship either. They enhanced it. I will never forget how Doing What I Can first came to life for me live, not on the record.

[BigAl84]

Yep. We’ll never forget how he called Christine’s and Stevie’s solo shows lounge acts. Meanwhile, HIS first solo show had nine extra musicians and he did seven Fleetwood Mac songs in a seventeen song set. He still did five on his last, at times karaoke tour.

Steve, If I may have your permission to speak, may I point out they have all had extra musicians as part of their touring bands. Stevie has also had Fleetwood Mac songs in her solo set since 1981.

[SteveMacD]

Steve, If I may have your permission to speak, may I point out they have all had extra musicians as part of their touring bands. Stevie has also had Fleetwood Mac songs in her solo set since 1981.

Nope. Not giving that one to him. His comments have been out of line. He criticized them for doing exactly what he did. Christine only had five extra musicians, did almost all of her album, as well as deep cuts. She was much, much less the “lounge act” even the genius couldn’t escape.

In the 21 years between the end of the “Mirage” tour and SYW, Lindsey only did three studio albums (Go Insane, TITN, and OOTC) and two tours (about 90 shows). In that same time, Stevie did SEVEN studio albums and TEN tours (over 550 shows). Furthermore, in the 23 years between the BTM tour and OWTS, Christine did two studio albums and one tour (47 shows).

While Lindsey was basking in the glow of his own genius, Stevie was busting her ass.

[BigAl84]

oh laaawwd lets play numbers with steve again. LOL I dont even care enough to go down that rabbit hole plus I wouldnt want to be told to "go away" again. LMAO....

[saniette]

Nope. Not giving that one to him. His comments have been out of line. He criticized them for doing exactly what he did. Christine only had five extra musicians, did almost all of her album, as well as deep cuts. She was much, much less the “lounge act” even the genius couldn’t escape.

In the 21 years between the end of the “Mirage” tour and SYW, Lindsey only did three studio albums (Go Insane, TITN, and OOTC) and two tours (about 90 shows). In that same time, Stevie did SEVEN studio albums and TEN tours (over 550 shows). Furthermore, in the 23 years between the BTM tour and OWTS, Christine did two studio albums and one tour (47 shows).

While Lindsey was basking in the glow of his own genius, Stevie was busting her ass.

Perhaps touring is Stevie's way of basking in the glow of her own genius? She does seem a bit of an adulation addict. And she gets a lot more help in the studio than Lindsey, so how many albums would she truly have solo?

The parameters of your comparison seem a bit arbitrary, as Lindsey has increased his output since then in terms of albums and tours.

They all have points to critique from an artistic standpoint, not sure why Lindsey's are so flagrant to you?

I just don't see what the numbers are supposed to prove? Being prolific isn't always a good thing. Lots of artists release albums at a slower pace, and so what? I know plenty of people that would be better served waiting longer between albums, Stevie among them.

[BigAl84]

Elton John criticized Billy Joel for not making new albums, his response was "Elton needs to make fewer albums"

[BigAl84]

Nope. Not giving that one to him. His comments have been out of line. He criticized them for doing exactly what he did. Christine only had five extra musicians, did almost all of her album, as well as deep cuts. She was much, much less the “lounge act” even the genius couldn’t escape.

In the 21 years between the end of the “Mirage” tour and SYW, Lindsey only did three studio albums (Go Insane, TITN, and OOTC) and two tours (about 90 shows). In that same time, Stevie did SEVEN studio albums and TEN tours (over 550 shows). Furthermore, in the 23 years between the BTM tour and OWTS, Christine did two studio albums and one tour (47 shows).

While Lindsey was basking in the glow of his own genius, Stevie was busting her ass.

Good for him? how does the saying go, work smarter not harder?

[button-lip]

Good for him? how does the saying go, work smarter not harder?

Seven studio albums, ten tours and tons of cocaine to get through all that work apparently give you the right to kick someone out of a band, which is my main complaint here. Stevie was always sorrounded by the right people.

And yes, half of those albums suck. Even her fans say it. Work smarter, not harder.

[SteveMacD]

Perhaps touring is Stevie's way of basking in the glow of her own genius? She does seem a bit of an adulation addict.
Whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that when The Genius decided to tour (about a year after His magnum opus/flop came out), He still needed about as many musicians as Stevie.

And she gets a lot more help in the studio than Lindsey, so how many albums would she truly have solo?
Well, she still has two more…

Actually, He still has the fewest overall studio releases of any of the classic lineup, or even present lineup, but who am I to judge?

The parameters of your comparison seem a bit arbitrary, as Lindsey has increased his output since then in terms of albums and tours.
And yet He’s still in last place.

They all have points to critique from an artistic standpoint, not sure why Lindsey's are so flagrant to you?
They never critiqued Him.

I just don't see what the numbers are supposed to prove? Being prolific isn't always a good thing. Lots of artists release albums at a slower pace, and so what? I know plenty of people that would be better served waiting longer between albums, Stevie among them.
So, you’re saying that OOTC and the various GOS songs benefited from being sat on for a half decade or more? I mean, Lindsey left in 1987, and OOTC came out five years later. Did those songs age well? Were they remotely relevant in 1992, save for maybe the Starbucks crowd, which wasn’t a thing back then???

Did “Steal Your Heart Away” sound better in 2003 than it did in 1998? Did any of those songs benefit from at least a five year wait?

[SteveMacD]

Good for him? how does the saying go, work smarter not harder?

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

[michelej1]

I just don't see what the numbers are supposed to prove? Being prolific isn't always a good thing. Lots of artists release albums at a slower pace, and so what? I know plenty of people that would be better served waiting longer between albums, Stevie among them.

Agreed as multi-talented as Prince was and as much as I loved him, his album releases were ridiculous and the sheer volume lessened the value of the work. Sometimes crafting is good. Of course, one can go overboard with finessing the same song too long, too.

[SteveMacD]

I am not sure why nine musicians in a solo set is bad. I didn’t need the wall of guitars, but I don’t think they detracted from his own musicianship either. They enhanced it. I will never forget how Doing What I Can first came to life for me live, not on the record.

Be that as it may, Stevie had like eight extra musicians, lounge act; Christine had five extra musicians, lounge act; Lindsey had nine extra musicians, total artistic experienc. Huh? By comparison, Richard Thompson tours either as a (completely) solo guitarist/vocalist or as a trio.

[michelej1]

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

I don’t Think many people believe Lindsey should be inducted into the RRHOF for his solo work. And Lindsey didn’t call them lounge artists because of the number of musicians they had with them, it was because of what those musicians were doing or not doing and the caliber of their work. I say that with a nod to Carlos.

[michelej1]

Be that as it may, Stevie had like eight extra musicians, lounge act; Christine had five extra musicians, lounge act; Lindsey had nine extra musicians, total artistic experienc. Huh? By comparison, Richard Thompson tours either as a (completely) solo guitarist/vocalist or as a trio.

I quibble with your definition of lounge act, sir.

Aside from that, who cares. No one denies that Lindsey was critical of FM. He’s always got something to say.

[saniette]

Whatever. That doesn’t change the fact that when The Genius decided to tour (about a year after His magnum opus/flop came out), He still needed about as many musicians as Stevie.

But he didn't "need" as many musicians, that's what he chose to do. The guitar army was a weird idea, but it wasn't a necessity from a musical standpoint. Stevie really needs all those musicians on stage.

Well, she still has two more…

Actually, He still has the fewest overall studio releases of any of the classic lineup, or even present lineup, but who am I to judge?


And yet He’s still in last place.

Music isn't a competition though, so math is only going to take you so far here. You can't prove/disprove your opinions in music by citing numbers. Quantity of output doesn't prove anything, other than Stevie was more career-focused. And she deserves credit for that, but that also comes at a price too, such as chasing commercial success a little too much in the 80s. This has dated a lot of her output (hence nothing performed post-1983 at the RRHOF).


They never critiqued Him.

You mean in public? I'm sure they have critiqued Him plenty in private

So, you’re saying that OOTC and the various GOS songs benefited from being sat on for a half decade or more? I mean, Lindsey left in 1987, and OOTC came out five years later. Did those songs age well? Were they remotely relevant in 1992, save for maybe the Starbucks crowd, which wasn’t a thing back then???

Did “Steal Your Heart Away” sound better in 2003 than it did in 1998? Did any of those songs benefit from at least a five year wait?

I'll give you this for the GOS material, but who knows what OOTC songs would have sounded like if Lindsey rush released them? One of the impressive things about that album is the production, and maybe time was needed for that. Lindsey has always been a studio perfectionist for better or worse. I agree that he should have released OOTC sooner, as by 1992 an album like this was never going to sell (post-Nirvana and all that). I don't think it ever would have been a huge success though, even in 1988.

I still can't give you this point, though, as none of Stevie's, Christine's or FM's output after TITN has aged well. If we're going to be completely honest, nothing Stevie has done after her first solo album has aged particularly well. Some great songs, but the 80s production dates much of it (and to forestall any criticism, of course "Go Insane" suffers from this as well). And none of her recent output is very memorable.

So why is the whole contrarian thing strictly against Lindsey? Let's discuss Christine's great solo career while we're at it.

[SteveMacD]

I don’t Think many people believe Lindsey should be inducted into the RRHOF for his solo work. And Lindsey didn’t call them lounge artists because of the number of musicians they had with them, it was because of what those musicians were doing or not doing and the caliber of their work. I say that with a nod to Carlos.

Yeah, those comments predated Carlos. We’re talking like pre-TITN, before he actually tried it himself (and preceded to perform “The Chain” as a solo artist, with no sense of irony as the kiddies around here like to say these days).

[SteveMacD]

oh laaawwd lets play numbers with steve again. LOL I dont even care enough to go down that rabbit hole plus I wouldnt want to be told to "go away" again. LMAO....

Yeah, facts and what not…

[SteveMacD]

Seven studio albums, ten tours and tons of cocaine
That’s the thing, though. In that time, she kicked cocaine AND klonopin. She went from her peak to her absolute worst to her redemption.

What did Lindsey do during that time?

Plus, are people not allowed to have had low points? Or, do those just always get to be thrown back at them? (Sometimes even I am allowed to fall.)

[HomerMcvie]

Good god, I wish I had a bullet right now. Y'all are f**king exhausting.:wavey:

[SteveMacD]

Agreed as multi-talented as Prince was and as much as I loved him, his album releases were ridiculous and the sheer volume lessened the value of the work. Sometimes crafting is good. Of course, one can go overboard with finessing the same song too long, too.

I can’t speak to Prince, but you know who I used to work for. My attitude is that if he releases five albums a year and there are three great songs per release, that’s still 15 great songs a year. I’ll take that any time over one album released between 1987-03.

[SteveMacD]

Elton John criticized Billy Joel for not making new albums, his response was "Elton needs to make fewer albums"

Which proves my theory that Elton John is the only person who thinks Billy Joel should make a new album.


http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Norm-MacDonald-Weekend-Update-SNL.png

[SteveMacD]

I quibble with your definition of lounge act, sir.

Not mine, His. He did everything He criticized Stevie for doing. He used a bunch of extra musicians and did Fleetwood Mac songs. Literally no difference. He failed to meet his own standards.

[SteveMacD]

But he didn't "need" as many musicians, that's what he chose to do. The guitar army was a weird idea, but it wasn't a necessity from a musical standpoint. Stevie really needs all those musicians on stage.
Yeah, but again, he was the one calling the others lounge acts and proceeded to do exactly the same thing.

I'll give you this for the GOS material, but who knows what OOTC songs would have sounded like if Lindsey rush released them?
Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait. It sounded a lot like Tango II, which if you think about the Tusk-after-Rumours storyline, is something of a betrayal. I mean, I’m supposed to accept that His Genius is a genius for breaking the mold after Rumours, but did something completely within the mold thirteen years later, after a five year absence?

I still can't give you this point, though, as none of Stevie's, Christine's or FM's output after TITN has aged well.
I think John’s album and ITM aged better than the rest, but they have a timeless quality to them. They’re not monster, revolutionary albums, nor were they trying to be, but they’re not embarrassing.

So why is the whole contrarian thing strictly against Lindsey? Let's discuss Christine's great solo career while we're at it.
What solo career? She’s Fleetwood Mac. That’s her brand. She only made one solo album during her tenure with Fleetwood Mac, which the label pressured her into, and it yielded a top ten single, another top 40 single, and peaked at #26 (compared to the highest charting album by the genius, at #32).

The other two solo albums were done in some state of retirement and really should be judged accordingly. That said, I enjoyed them.

And, it should be noted that she had eight albums under her belt, not including her session work, prior to 1975.

[michelej1]

Not mine, His. He did everything He criticized Stevie for doing. He used a bunch of extra musicians and did Fleetwood Mac songs. Literally no difference. He failed to meet his own standards.

Yeah, those comments predated Carlos. We’re talking like pre-TITN, before he actually tried it himself (and preceded to perform “The Chain” as a solo artist, with no sense of irony as the kiddies around here like to say these days).


But he didn’t criticize them for having a bunch of musicians.

If Lindsey had toured with Tango he was going to have extra musicians with FM himself. In those days he always wanted the fuller sound. He eventually found out he could not continue to afford it. He was forced to pare down for financial reasons.

The sheer number of musicians had nothing to do with the “lounge act” aspersions he cast. It’s the way the musicians were utilized. It’s the same thing with the microphone. Lindsey did not say that Stevie was Vegas because she used the microphone, she says he said she was Vegas because of HOW she used it.

But you invented an argument where none existed. I said that the break up in 1987 was less acrimonious than this one and you responded by saying that Lindsey criticized the band in 1987. Yes he did but he also reached out to remain friends with them. That’s why he was at Mick’s wedding in the first place, giving you the opportunity to happily supply us with a picture of it. And when he appeared at the BTM shows, Mick introduced him as if he was one of the band. Fast forward to today when if he appeared at one of the shows they’d probably have security arrest him and throw him out.

[SteveMacD]

If Lindsey had toured with Tango he was going to have extra musicians with FM himself.
Ironically, it would have been Billy Burnette.

The sheer number of musicians had nothing to do with the “lounge act” aspersions he cast. It’s the way the musicians were utilized. It’s the same thing with the microphone. Lindsey did not say that Stevie was Vegas because she used the microphone, she says he said she was Vegas because of HOW she used it.
Like…singing into it?:shrug:

But you invented an argument where none existed.
No, I found an comically awkward picture of Stevie and Lindsey and thought it would be funny in a discussion about shippers.

[sue]

Good god, I wish I had a bullet right now. Y'all are f**king exhausting.:wavey:


Exhausting, but helpful sometimes.
I suffer from insomnia and turn to these pages for an aid to sleep.

[button-lip]

Good god, I wish I had a bullet right now. Y'all are f**king exhausting.:wavey:

And the Queen’s fans must be proud of their new acquisition :laugh::laugh:

[BigAl84]

Yeah, facts and what not…

Haha no, Steve that is not what I said. I was not disputing your numbers. I simply meant I wasn't going to engage in a debate about twenty years worth of tour dates and album sales.

But thanks for drawing conclusions, again.

[BigAl84]

Okay, but don’t get pissed off when the one who worked harder got inducted for a second time.

Again, I never said I was pissed off.

I still don't understand your continuous need to single me out despite the fact I have explained multiple times my intent was meant with no malice to anyone.

[BigAl84]

That’s the thing, though. In that time, she kicked cocaine AND klonopin. She went from her peak to her absolute worst to her redemption.

What did Lindsey do during that time?

Plus, are people not allowed to have had low points? Or, do those just always get to be thrown back at them? (Sometimes even I am allowed to fall.)


Are people not allowed to back away from a situation and focus on making an album for a few years. Using your own words, why is that being thrown back at Lindsey?

[saniette]

Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait. It sounded a lot like Tango II, which if you think about the Tusk-after-Rumours storyline, is something of a betrayal. I mean, I’m supposed to accept that His Genius is a genius for breaking the mold after Rumours, but did something completely within the mold thirteen years later, after a five year absence?


I think John’s album and ITM aged better than the rest, but they have a timeless quality to them. They’re not monster, revolutionary albums, nor were they trying to be, but they’re not embarrassing.

Fact: Artists generally take longer between albums than they did in the 60s. So false equivalency. Not to mention 6-9 months was considered a long time for an album back then, like 5 years would be now.

And your opinion about the quality of their respective albums isn't any more valid than anyone else's. You're making excuses for Christine. A solo career means you release solo albums, and hers did just okay. If she released an album, she wasn't in retirement, so why would different standards apply?

My opinion is that OOTC is better than Stevie's 2 albums released in the same time frame. But quantity over quality, that's the corporate rock way, right?

[michelej1]

No, I found an comically awkward picture of Stevie and Lindsey and thought it would be funny in a discussion about shippers.

And I made a shipper comment about it as I do think the photo proved their grudging and abiding attachment to one another and also that you can never break the FM chain. At least you couldn't then. Now, that chain has been melted down for scrap metal.

[David]

Nope. Not giving that one to him. His comments have been out of line. He criticized them for doing exactly what he did. Christine only had five extra musicians, did almost all of her album, as well as deep cuts. She was much, much less the “lounge act” even the genius couldn’t escape. You don't understand what he meant by "lounge act," despite the fact that I've explained it to you. You insist, still, that it had something to do with FM vs. solo songs and the number of musicians onstage (!). You also don't seem to understand the difference between an aesthetic judgment and a personal one, constantly insisting that this guy's criticism of artistic matters is "out of line"—as in "personal attack" (like your nonsense about the East–West shows).

In the 21 years between the end of the “Mirage” tour and SYW, Lindsey only did three studio albums (Go Insane, TITN, and OOTC) and two tours (about 90 shows). In that same time, Stevie did SEVEN studio albums and TEN tours (over 550 shows). Furthermore, in the 23 years between the BTM tour and OWTS, Christine did two studio albums and one tour (47 shows). This is the sociologist in you—ever the sociologist—counting, counting, counting . . . amassing data . . . putting up the numbers on the overhead . . . navigating the Excel spreadsheets and running the formulae . . . as if any of this had anything to do with anything. The funny thing is that we could respond to you in exactly those data-fixated terms and still prove your conclusions daft. For example, how silly is a dry comparison of his album count with her album count, when he's the singer, songwriter, producer/orchestrator, engineer, and sometimes even the album cover or sleeve artist? Circumstances between the two aren't quite so smoothly aligned as to make a dry comparison of numbers in any way supportive of your point. Oh, I forgot—you're not counting Tango as a solo album, but it actually was.

While Lindsey was basking in the glow of his own genius, Stevie was busting her ass.You're using his low ebb of initiative to draw an equivalence with her nonstop release of shoddy junk? Are you that confused about art, commerce, and life?

[SorcererJP]

Another predictable, biased thread filled with haters and frustrated, people who cannot seem to let it go ...

I just fly in from The Netherlands to NYC last month to see my favorite band, yes a new line-up ... but I gave them a fair chance, twice .... and I will see hem in June in my part of the globe once again ....

It was worth every single euro ... I have not given up and I'll never will ....

[David]

It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait. It sounded a lot like Tango II, which if you think about the Tusk-after-Rumours storyline, is something of a betrayal.The aesthete speaks.

I think John’s album and ITM aged better than the rest, but they have a timeless quality to them. They’re not monster, revolutionary albums, nor were they trying to be, but they’re not embarrassing.The aesthete speaks again. My advice is to let your career as a music critic begin and end with that fantastically idiotic judgment.

[tsitopen]

The aesthete speaks.

The aesthete speaks again. My advice is to let your career as a music critic begin and end with that fantastically idiotic judgment.

oh that's too good. SMACKDOUG hasn't changed a bit. Line by line responses to everyone and everything. Ridiculous statements about s**t records. Also a few ridiculous statements about decent records. But i mean calling the John Mcvie solo album timeless takes the cake. That's one of the worst records I've ever heard in any genre.

I didn't realize you guys fought each other now but it's super enjoyable.

[BigAl84]

Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait.

How many years was it between Street Angel and Trouble In Shangri-La - 6 years or so? By your own logic, TISL has no merit either or is that now a profound masterpiece? Let me know if I've mistaken.

[BigAl84]

Wait you guys....One Man Show was made in 2 HOURS!!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/axWsua0zHhRXq/giphy.gif

[BigAl84]

Five years, though? “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” was recorded in six months and “Pet Sounds” in nine months. It’s not like a lot of OOTC wasn’t derivative of his past work. It was hardly revolutionary, broke much new ground, shed any new light on Lindsey, or warranted a five year wait.

What's really ironic, if you take this exact quote and replace OTTC with Bella Donna, replace Lindsey with "Stevie" you would be labeled as somebody spreading rage fueled rhetoric and asked to leave an entire forum, by the same person who wrote the original quote.

Funny how that works.

[SteveMacD]

What's really ironic, if you take this exact quote and replace OTTC with Bella Donna, replace Lindsey with "Stevie" you would be labeled as somebody spreading rage fueled rhetoric and asked to leave an entire forum, by the same person who wrote the original quote. .

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.

[michelej1]

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.

I don't think he quit the band to make his solo album. He quit it because he was fighting with dysfunctional, addicts. Homeless Mick on one hand and no show Stevie (well, to give her credit, she did show up for Petty and Dylan concerts) on the other.

[SteveMacD]

Are people not allowed to back away from a situation and focus on making an album for a few years. Using your own words, why is that being thrown back at Lindsey?
A few years? Sure. But five years, and the album sounds like the second part of an album that came out five years earlier? And then another eleven years until his next studio release (SYW)?

How many years was it between Street Angel and Trouble In Shangri-La - 6 years or so? By your own logic, TISL has no merit either or is that now a profound masterpiece? Let me know if I've mistaken.
I wouldn’t call most of Stevie’s solo albums masterpieces, truth be told. But at least she was on the road, keeping her name out there. TISL wasn’t much, but it was something, it was the only new album from any of them since “Time.” Meanwhile, Lindsey’s fecklessness and Christine’s retirement created a scenario where a generation basically grew up without them. Hell, there was a stretch in the late ‘90s where Peter Green was less reclusive.

[David]

Except Bella Donna came out about two years after Tusk, was recorded in three months, she didn’t quit the band to make it, nor did she ever claim that it was anything other than another outlet for her music.More apples to oranges. When you say that BD took three months to make, that's misleading. First, the recording sessions, which were off and on, actually lasted longer than three months, but no biggie. Second, Stevie worked on her songs and demos with other musicians (like Tom Moncrief (https://www.musicpage.com/tommoncrieff), Mick Fleetwood, Sharon Celani, and Jorge Calderón (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Calder%C3%B3n)) off and on over a period of at least three years—from spring 1978 through late winter 1980. Many of those sessions included all the members of the Heartbreakers (Stan, Mike, Benmont, and Ron) in many hours of work (recordings of which surfaced from the old Modern storage unit). So Stevie was working on material for BD off and on over a period of three years. It's misleading to say that it took "three months"; it even took longer at the actual sessions at Studio 55 and Goodnight L.A., but many of the songs had already been worked on and worked out well beforehand.

[David]

I wouldn’t call most of Stevie’s solo albums masterpieces, truth be told.Glad to hear it! I thought they were all equal to Revolver or Exile on Main Street!

But at least she was on the road, keeping her name out there.While he was producing solo albums, Fleetwood Mac albums, and sometimes even friends' albums.

There's no question that he has always dragged his feet and wasted a lot of time. She has, too. (Rock a Little? Street Angel?) But you're pushing a weird story here—that he's slow and she's fast, and that her speed made her a commercial force that he could only dream about. That's silly. She didn't get inducted into the hall of fame as a solo gal because she busted her behind all these decades. (In fact, we chiffonheads always used to complain about how long she was taking on most of her projects.) She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

[BigAl84]

Glad to hear it! I thought they were all equal to Revolver or Exile on Main Street!

While he was producing solo albums, Fleetwood Mac albums, and sometimes even friends' albums.

There's no question that he has always dragged his feet and wasted a lot of time. She has, too. (Rock a Little? Street Angel?) But you're pushing a weird story here—that he's slow and she's fast, and that her speed made her a commercial force that he could only dream about. That's silly. She didn't get inducted into the hall of fame as a solo gal because she busted her behind all these decades. (In fact, we chiffonheads always used to complain about how long she was taking on most of her projects.) She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

wait, what? the rock a little era wasnt the career defining moment that is referenced to this day, who knew!!:]

[Street_Dreamer]

She got inducted because the public likes her and remembers her.

That HAS to be the reason. As I've mentioned before, in terms of her solo material, only Bella Donna and The Wild Heart are fantastic albums top to bottom. Rock A Little is trash, The Other Side Of The Mirror was mostly underwhelming and Street Angel was embarrassing. I didn't think Trouble In Shangra-La was all that special and I've never listened to In Your Dreams or 24 Karat Gold.

Stack up her solo work to her work in Fleetwood Mac and it's not even close to being competitive. Outside of her first two solo albums, none of her music transcends time. People talk about Tango In The Night having a "dated" sound. Compared to Rock A Little and The Other Side Of The Mirror, Tango In The Night sounds like it came out yesterday.

Personally, I think there are plenty of women and men who had better and more prolific careers than Stevie. Of course my opinion doesn't matter and she's in the HoF forever. Good for her but she never would have got as far as she did by herself if it weren't for Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey's production on her songs.

[button-lip]

Personally, I think there are plenty of women and men who had better and more prolific careers than Stevie. Of course my opinion doesn't matter and she's in the HoF forever. Good for her but she never would have got as far as she did by herself if it weren't for Fleetwood Mac and Lindsey's production on her songs.

And for all those people working for her 24/7. Those are the people that made possible all those albums and all those tours. She knows her job very well.

[wayner]

Never say never, but for now

and until a lot of things change

I've given up and will spend no more $$ on Fleetwood Mac , its current line-up ,or anything to do with members of the original 'Rumors Five'

Who else ??

I just had a discussion with my wife about this, we have seen 3 concerts under the new regime - vegas , san diego, and atlantic city ... notice the party city connection (even though MSG is in our backyard) - one of the reasons we went to this shows ... her words were very simply put

fleetwood mac without lindsey is like the stones without mick

end of conversation

[michelej1]

I like her solo albums well enough. Street Angel and Rock-A-Little are my least favorite. Wild Heart is my favorite, because her vocals were on fire.

TISL was a slow burn. It was tuneless. The songs just droned on and on with no beat and I wrote it off early, but then I revisited it about two years in and it really grew on me. It's mood-invoking.

The fact that I was attracted to her sound before I was even aware of FM tells me that she did indeed possess an indefinable spark. I mean without knowing who the vocalist was on Magnet and Steel, Gold, or even on the icky Sweet Love, I was drawn to her. Listen to the woman on Midnight Wind and try and deny she can be mesmerizing.

Of course, I do have to say the same thing about Lindsey. Gold and Magnet and Steel. That's him and I recognized the production value in those songs without having a clue that Lindsey Buckingham even existed.

But Stevie, as she said, even in Fritz, the boys played their hearts out, but folks kept asking about the mousy-brown haired girl. She caught their eye somehow. Of course, we should point out that FM was not the first time that Lindsey took his girlfriend along for the ride. Lindsey was the one who was offered a record deal in those early days and, as he did on NYE 1974, he made Stevie a part of that, when they left Fritz behind. The musicians gravitated towards Lindsey and the rest were drawn in by Stevie's charm.

I guess that merits her being in the RRHOF.

[SteveMacD]

Fact: Artists generally take longer between albums than they did in the 60s. So false equivalency. Not to mention 6-9 months was considered a long time for an album back then, like 5 years would be now.
I could buy that if he had been doing a lot of touring, but he just went away for five years. Like, did the songs need an extra year and a half to sound better? At some point, doesn’t a song just have to be done? How many extra oohs, ahs, handclaps, electronic percussion hits, or miscellaneous guitar parts will it take to actually improve the song? At what point is it a major artist achievement or just a grand exercise in self-indulgence?

You're making excuses for Christine. A solo career means you release solo albums, and hers did just okay. If she released an album, she wasn't in retirement, so why would different standards apply?
Those albums were more hobby than career move or artistic statement. Christine’s first solo album was done because she was bored being a housewife with nothing to do while John was on tour and “In The Meantime” was something her nephew basically started.

My opinion is that OOTC is better than Stevie's 2 albums released in the same time frame. But quantity over quality, that's the corporate rock way, right?
I totally agree that OOTC is better than Stevie’s albums, but that’s not exactly the point.

[BigAl84]

I could buy that if he had been doing a lot of touring, but he just went away for five years. Like, did the songs need an extra year and a half to sound better? At some point, doesn’t a song just have to be done? How many extra oohs, ahs, handclaps, electronic percussion hits, or miscellaneous guitar parts will it take to actually improve the song? At what point is it a major artist achievement or just a grand exercise in self-indulgence?


Those albums were more hobby than career move or artistic statement. Christine’s first solo album was done because she was bored being a housewife with nothing to do while John was on tour and “In The Meantime” was something her nephew basically started.


I totally agree that OOTC is better than Stevie’s albums, but that’s not exactly the point.

We are so relieved you approve. I have to admit, it was a nail biter!

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse-whippersnapper-miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

Clearly In the Meantime would of been a cultural treasure had Christine had the pure privilege to have you produce it. After all you are our Robert Mandavi of music criticism, our gracious well of music production expertise.

While we are on the topic of just how many oohs and ahhs are really needed, I too often wondered just how many stinkin' stairs did stevie REALLY need to climb in that talk to me video. Right?!

[michelej1]

Yeah, he didn't tour nearly 500 dates in three years like Stevie, that workhorse whippersnapper miracle worker that she is, working harder than anyone in showbiz, all the way to the rock hall baby!!

She works like a soldier in the army.

[BigAl84]

Like a Soldier's Angel.:angel:

[HomerMcvie]

She works like a soldier in the army.

Her life has been so difficult.

[SteveMacD]

The fact is out of sight, out of mind, and Lindsey dropped off the radar for too long and had lengthy gaps between albums and tours.

As did Christine.

Fleetwood Mac without Christine played to packed arenas, Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey is playing to packed arenas, Stevie as a solo act gets on bills that play to arenas, LBCM played to 2/3 to 3/4 mid-sized amphitheaters. Stevie is in the position she’s in because she worked hard to have two commercially viable careers and doesn’t have those types of gaps between tours, so it’s harder for people to imagine a Fleetwood Mac tour without her. She’s also finding new ways of staying relevant to younger audiences.

[mitzo]

The fact is out of sight, out of mind, and Lindsey dropped off the radar for too long and had lengthy gaps between albums and tours.

As did Christine.

Fleetwood Mac without Christine played to packed arenas, Fleetwood Mac without Lindsey is playing to packed arenas, Stevie as a solo act gets on bills that play to arenas, LBCM played to 2/3 to 3/4 mid-sized amphitheaters. Stevie is in the position she’s in because she worked hard to have two commercially viable careers and doesn’t have those types of gaps between tours, so it’s harder for people to imagine a Fleetwood Mac tour without her. She’s also finding new ways of staying relevant to younger audiences.

I wish she had paid as much attention to recording as to touring, especially as her abilities fade with age and overuse. Her solo output is weak in quantity and, often, quality. Her real legacy will be the recordings and not the tours, sadly.

[BigAl84]

And all of these decisions were ones she made. Whoever it was who told her 20 years ago that she didn't have to work that hard, just tour your back catalog,you don't need to create new music, she really took to that piece of advice. For her, that was probably the worst thing somebody could of told her as she has always needed a strong nudge and support from others to get new music across the finish line.

In turn, it shifted her focus from being an active artist to primarily focusing on peddling the persona and image of herself that was is largely rooted in the work of prior decades. There are one of two routes that people tend to go. She spent a considerable amount of time developing her catalog of work and personal image as a brand and primarily focused on driving that brand out into the market. Sadly, IMO a huge part of that persona has been cemented or centered around playing Rhiannon (or similar) in hockey arenas. Playing that image in front of the largest common denominator.

Lindsey went the other route. He spent more time in the studio. More time developing his work, less time preoccupied with selling an image or himself as a brand. This is why his guitar playing is often described as "iconic" but there isn't this visual iconic image that is associated with him. For fans it is that turner guitar and style/tone of playing.

[David]

And all of these decisions were ones she made. Whoever it was who told her 20 years ago that she didn't have to work that hard, just tour your back catalog,you don't need to create new music, she really took to that piece of advice. I loved hearing Stevie sing on her first three tours, her 1994 tour, and maybe a little of her 1998 tour. But only her first tour was really a stretch for her conceptually. For the first time ever, she and her band had to figure out a way to present her for a complete show, and they were creative and successful. They built a strong set featuring nearly all of her new album, some key Mac hits, a movie soundtrack song, a first-time-ever cover, and even an unreleased song. They created a sort of narrative arc, too—we take certain things for granted nowadays like the use of Edge of Seventeen as a set closer and Rhiannon as an encore, but that practice had to be imagined for the first time in 1981. The Mac songs were many of them inventively treated musically, like Angel and Rhiannon and Gold Dust Woman—the Mac versions were obviously not used as blueprints.

But the 1983 tour (which I loved for its amazing drugged-up passion and conviction and sense of liberation) was, structurally, a note-for-note repeat of the 1981 tour. It was at that point that Lindsey's criticism of the lounge act was made and it was accurate. Bad news after that, too: virtually every tour afterward was more or less a repeat of the 1981 creation—with a couple of new songs tossed in to indicate that, yes, we are promoting the newest album.

This last tour with Chrissie Hynde was remarkable for its differences from the old formula. Stevie went out on a limb again and tried to create a new show. Props to her (at least from me). Unfortunately, by that time, she had singing problems.

I can't think of many elements of all her tours that were really new or that really tried to present her from a different angle. Even her toying with the orchestra in Melbourne was unsurprising—lots of acts had done that by that time.

Those of you who have heard all the old audience recordings of old shows probably remember hearing Stevie make onstage jokes and comments about "just me and a piano." Imagine her ever actually having the guts to do that. Well, Lindsey did that, right? Not even a piano, just him and his guitar. There isn't a chance in hell Stevie would ever be that bold and shake up her formula to that degree. From Lindsey's guitar army, with its intricately planned orchestrations and precision, to his solo guitar tour, Lindsey is no lounge act. She has been one for a long time, a very successful, beloved lounge act. That's what makes you a lounge act: the habit of repeating your old successes in the old frames of reference year after year—never trying to recreate yourself or the impressions you're making on the audience.

[BigAl84]

Nice points, David!

I actually have a similar observation for Fleetwood Mac. I loved how there was some differences in guitar tones and keyboards used on the Mirage Tour and Even TITN. The Rumours, Tusk, Mirage, and Tango tours all had some different musical elements to help them sound different than the last tour - not to mention things like that guitar solo during Rhiannon that has been missing for 20 years.

Ever since the Dance, although song titles have come and gone out of the set, the overall sound/tone and arrangements of the live music have been very similar, in my opinion.

Regarding Stevie - I was personally never a fan of her '81 arrangements of Fleetwood Mac tunes - the synths on Sara etc. Although, that was a different time and it may have sounded more current at the time. I do give her credit for not trying to replicate the FM arrangements verbatim.

This ties into my thought on the current lineup - Mike Campbell views it as playing homage to Lindsey by trying to stick to his parts (and I respect that), but I would actually find it more interesting to see him dive into the songs the way he would if asked to interpret it or cover it. He kind of runs in this middle space that comes across awkward, just my opinion.

[singertobe]

So I'm almost done reading Mick's first autobiography (currently in the middle of chapter 9 of 10) and I thought it was really sweet of him to try and help all the former Mac members with their careers, even if it didn't work out like with Peter Green. Why is he not doing that now with Lindsey? What changed between the man he was then and the man he has become today.

Also, I'm gonna be reading Ken's autobiography after I'm done with this and then move on to Ray's. This is all part of my attempt to understand Lindsey's personality and hopefully try to find some missing link that will tell us all why this has happened.

[Macfan4life]

Her life has been so difficult.
And the Army Ranger may be so awestruck
And the Army Ranger may truly care
But the Army Ranger is so tired
so the Army Ranger disappears

[Nicks Fan]

I loved hearing Stevie sing on her first three tours, her 1994 tour, and maybe a little of her 1998 tour. But only her first tour was really a stretch for her conceptually. For the first time ever, she and her band had to figure out a way to present her for a complete show, and they were creative and successful. They built a strong set featuring nearly all of her new album, some key Mac hits, a movie soundtrack song, a first-time-ever cover, and even an unreleased song. They created a sort of narrative arc, too—we take certain things for granted nowadays like the use of Edge of Seventeen as a set closer and Rhiannon as an encore, but that practice had to be imagined for the first time in 1981. The Mac songs were many of them inventively treated musically, like Angel and Rhiannon and Gold Dust Woman—the Mac versions were obviously not used as blueprints.

But the 1983 tour (which I loved for its amazing drugged-up passion and conviction and sense of liberation) was, structurally, a note-for-note repeat of the 1981 tour. It was at that point that Lindsey's criticism of the lounge act was made and it was accurate. Bad news after that, too: virtually every tour afterward was more or less a repeat of the 1981 creation—with a couple of new songs tossed in to indicate that, yes, we are promoting the newest album.

This last tour with Chrissie Hynde was remarkable for its differences from the old formula. Stevie went out on a limb again and tried to create a new show. Props to her (at least from me). Unfortunately, by that time, she had singing problems.

I can't think of many elements of all her tours that were really new or that really tried to present her from a different angle. Even her toying with the orchestra in Melbourne was unsurprising—lots of acts had done that by that time.

Those of you who have heard all the old audience recordings of old shows probably remember hearing Stevie make onstage jokes and comments about "just me and a piano." Imagine her ever actually having the guts to do that. Well, Lindsey did that, right? Not even a piano, just him and his guitar. There isn't a chance in hell Stevie would ever be that bold and shake up her formula to that degree. From Lindsey's guitar army, with its intricately planned orchestrations and precision, to his solo guitar tour, Lindsey is no lounge act. She has been one for a long time, a very successful, beloved lounge act. That's what makes you a lounge act: the habit of repeating your old successes in the old frames of reference year after year—never trying to recreate yourself or the impressions you're making on the audience.

100 Percent agree. I loved the last SN solo tour. The vocals were not great but it wasn't awful either. I liked that she tried to present something different. FM has sadly for years presented the same type of show in that they play the same 12-15 songs a night in virtually the exact same way while throwing 4-7 deep cuts for us die hard fans. I would be shocked if they went on tour and dropped all the support players and just performed as is and had no backing musicians. Same with SN. I doubt she would ever tour solo acoustic because she couldn't pull it off. She can play piano and guitar but her abilities are of a more basic nature. I couldn't see her doing an insane guitar or Piano solo. Melissa Etheridge has done multiple acoustic tours where she plays piano and guitar and plays them very well.

[SteveMacD]

So I'm almost done reading Mick's first autobiography (currently in the middle of chapter 9 of 10)
Ironically, he was in the middle of Chapter 11 when he wrote it.

[singertobe]

Ironically, he was in the middle of Chapter 11 when he wrote it.

I just finished it an hour ago. It was so strange to read about Stevie crying over Lindsey leaving the band knowing what's happened now. I'm gonna start Ken's book tomorrow. I'm determined to find out what could've gone down to make them fire Lindsey.

[HomerMcvie]

And the Army Ranger may be so awestruck
And the Army Ranger may truly care
But the Army Ranger is so tired
so the Army Ranger disappears

Third line is so true...
That final line would be a dream come true.

[HomerMcvie]

Same with SN. I doubt she would ever tour solo acoustic because she couldn't pull it off. She can play piano and guitar but her abilities are of a more basic nature. I couldn't see her doing an insane guitar or Piano solo. Melissa Etheridge has done multiple acoustic tours where she plays piano and guitar and plays them very well.

She plays guitar and piano like a student who's been taking lessons for 3 months. She's a horrible player!

INSANE guitar or piano solo? Somebody call me an ambulance, because I might be in cardiac arrest!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

SOLO tour!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D There's only ONE member who can pull that off. The one the old HAG fired.

[michelej1]

I just finished it an hour ago. It was so strange to read about Stevie crying over Lindsey leaving the band knowing what's happened now. I'm gonna start Ken's book tomorrow. I'm determined to find out what could've gone down to make them fire Lindsey.

Neither Ken or Ray’s book will give you any clue about that.

[David]

Ever since the Dance, although song titles have come and gone out of the set, the overall sound/tone and arrangements of the live music have been very similar, in my opinion. Yeah, I defy anyone to listen to a recording of The Chain or Dreams from 2003, 2009, and 2013, and tell me which is which. We used to be able to do just that listening to a song from 1975, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, and 1982, and could even identify (just based on listening) at which point in a long tour it was done. (Many of us can easily tell the difference between any number of songs they played on the first leg of the Tusk tour, the middle, European leg, and the final US leg. I don't think people can do that anymore with the past twenty or so years, maybe even stretching back to the 1987 touring band.)

Regarding Stevie - I was personally never a fan of her '81 arrangements of Fleetwood Mac tunes - the synths on Sara etc. Although, that was a different time and it may have sounded more current at the time. I do give her credit for not trying to replicate the FM arrangements verbatim.
I'd have to agree. I don't consider what Stevie did in 1981 to, say, Angel or Gold Dust Woman necessarily superior to what Fleetwood did with the studio tracks. But the direction was the right direction to go in: Get in there and re-envision them, and take big liberties with the familiar. Angel, for example, from the Nicks touring band in 1981 is virtually an entirely new song. Its tone, its atmosphere, its tempo, its emotional palette are all entirely different from the Mac recording. Same with Gold Dust Woman. You've got to appreciate the 1981 tour as a primal creative force and a lasting one, because arrangements and other formalist treatment decisions stuck with Stevie and her subsequent solo bands to this day, even despite constantly changing players.

Despite Stevie's successes in 1981, you have to give Lindsey the edge in this realm. His live solo arrangement of Big Love, which we're so sick of today, so completely displaced his earlier studio version that most people don't even think about the earlier version when they think of the song. You mention Big Love to people and they're going to think of the solo guitar version. The later one completely superseded the earlier. That treatment also had a huge influence on his successive solo albums, which he talked about plenty of times in interviews: getting back to his guitar "center" and writing an arrangement that swirled around his specialty modified Travis picking. He has dozens of studio songs that are musical mirrors of what he did with Big Love in 1993. (In fact, some of us may wish he had not been quite so insistent with that style, and had developed some other ideas.)

[BlueLantern]

Another longtime fan here who has, sadly, let go. I still love the music and cherish all the years of being a fan. But that’s nostalgia now.

It’s not just the shameful way things went down. It’s that coupled with the fact that these people are now old verging on elderly. It does not surprise me to read that some recent dates got canceled due to illness; this is now an old, old band. I knew back in 2014 that it was a rare alignment, that tour, to have all 5 Rumours-era band members reunited and touring and sounding quite good (although predictable). Lots of fans knew it; that Fleetwood Mac tour might be the last “real” one, ever, for devoted fans.

And it was. Thanks for all the love and all the good memories. Moving on.

[bombaysaffires]

So I'm almost done reading Mick's first autobiography (currently in the middle of chapter 9 of 10) and I thought it was really sweet of him to try and help all the former Mac members with their careers, even if it didn't work out like with Peter Green. Why is he not doing that now with Lindsey? What changed between the man he was then and the man he has become today.

Also, I'm gonna be reading Ken's autobiography after I'm done with this and then move on to Ray's. This is all part of my attempt to understand Lindsey's personality and hopefully try to find some missing link that will tell us all why this has happened.

You should actually be reading it all in an attempt to understand *Stevie's* personality and try to find the link that tells us why this happened. She was the driver behind it, as is now acknowledged publicly by the band themselves. Then maybe you can tell Lindsey what you find, because he claims to not know either.

[bombaysaffires]

I wish she had paid as much attention to recording as to touring, especially as her abilities fade with age and overuse. Her solo output is weak in quantity and, often, quality. Her real legacy will be the recordings and not the tours, sadly.

And all of these decisions were ones she made. Whoever it was who told her 20 years ago that she didn't have to work that hard, just tour your back catalog,you don't need to create new music, she really took to that piece of advice. For her, that was probably the worst thing somebody could of told her as she has always needed a strong nudge and support from others to get new music across the finish line.

In turn, it shifted her focus from being an active artist to primarily focusing on peddling the persona and image of herself that was is largely rooted in the work of prior decades. There are one of two routes that people tend to go. She spent a considerable amount of time developing her catalog of work and personal image as a brand and primarily focused on driving that brand out into the market. Sadly, IMO a huge part of that persona has been cemented or centered around playing Rhiannon (or similar) in hockey arenas. Playing that image in front of the largest common denominator.

Lindsey went the other route. He spent more time in the studio. More time developing his work, less time preoccupied with selling an image or himself as a brand. This is why his guitar playing is often described as "iconic" but there isn't this visual iconic image that is associated with him. For fans it is that turner guitar and style/tone of playing.

I loved hearing Stevie sing on her first three tours, her 1994 tour, and maybe a little of her 1998 tour. But only her first tour was really a stretch for her conceptually. For the first time ever, she and her band had to figure out a way to present her for a complete show, and they were creative and successful. They built a strong set featuring nearly all of her new album, some key Mac hits, a movie soundtrack song, a first-time-ever cover, and even an unreleased song. They created a sort of narrative arc, too—we take certain things for granted nowadays like the use of Edge of Seventeen as a set closer and Rhiannon as an encore, but that practice had to be imagined for the first time in 1981. The Mac songs were many of them inventively treated musically, like Angel and Rhiannon and Gold Dust Woman—the Mac versions were obviously not used as blueprints.

But the 1983 tour (which I loved for its amazing drugged-up passion and conviction and sense of liberation) was, structurally, a note-for-note repeat of the 1981 tour. It was at that point that Lindsey's criticism of the lounge act was made and it was accurate. Bad news after that, too: virtually every tour afterward was more or less a repeat of the 1981 creation—with a couple of new songs tossed in to indicate that, yes, we are promoting the newest album.

This last tour with Chrissie Hynde was remarkable for its differences from the old formula. Stevie went out on a limb again and tried to create a new show. Props to her (at least from me). Unfortunately, by that time, she had singing problems.

I can't think of many elements of all her tours that were really new or that really tried to present her from a different angle. Even her toying with the orchestra in Melbourne was unsurprising—lots of acts had done that by that time.

Those of you who have heard all the old audience recordings of old shows probably remember hearing Stevie make onstage jokes and comments about "just me and a piano." Imagine her ever actually having the guts to do that. Well, Lindsey did that, right? Not even a piano, just him and his guitar. There isn't a chance in hell Stevie would ever be that bold and shake up her formula to that degree. From Lindsey's guitar army, with its intricately planned orchestrations and precision, to his solo guitar tour, Lindsey is no lounge act. She has been one for a long time, a very successful, beloved lounge act. That's what makes you a lounge act: the habit of repeating your old successes in the old frames of reference year after year—never trying to recreate yourself or the impressions you're making on the audience.


Yes, yes, and yes. :mad:

[SteveMacD]

Despite Stevie's successes in 1981, you have to give Lindsey the edge in this realm. His live solo arrangement of Big Love,
Huh? That and “Go Insane” were pretty much it. Lindsey’s arrangements of NGBA, “I’m So Afraid,” “The Chain,” GYOW, and SMAP were pretty much identical to the Fleetwood Mac arrangements. Same for SHN and “World Turning” in 2006. He was certainly no Richard Thompson in that regard.

In fact, some of us may wish he had not been quite so insistent with that style, and had developed some other ideas.
This.

[michelej1]

Another longtime fan here who has, sadly, let go. I still love the music and cherish all the years of being a fan. But that’s nostalgia now.

It’s not just the shameful way things went down. It’s that coupled with the fact that these people are now old verging on elderly. It does not surprise me to read that some recent dates got canceled due to illness; this is now an old, old band.

You are right of course, about their age. But we know that even 10 years ago they would’ve canceled a few dates because of illness. Someone’s voice goes out, someone truly gets ill or sometimes they just don’t sell enough tickets, so they blame it on illness. That has been happening for years.

But it is precisely because of their age, and imminent nursing care and deaths, that what has happened is so traumatic and irredeemable.

[button-lip]

You are right of course, about their age. But we know that even 10 years ago they would’ve canceled a few dates because of illness. Someone’s voice goes out, someone truly gets ill or sometimes they just don’t sell enough tickets, so they blame it on illness. That has been happening for years.

But it is precisely because of their age, and imminent nursing care and deaths, that what has happened is so traumatic and irredeemable.

After 15 months of drama, I only hope he could heal properly, both physically and mentally. The latter will be probably the hardest one. :(

[elle]

After 15 months of drama, I only hope he could heal properly, both physically and mentally. The latter will be probably the hardest one. :(
i really hope he's not even seeing any of the crap going on.

was so looking forward to fakewoods moving out of my area, finally. ito be done with their tour and their stupid disrespectful advertising. they were supposed to be gone outta here this week. yet now they still have to remake 2 shows around here (maybe they'll be cancelled?) and then they are now apparently being poor men's replacement for the Stones at the jazzfest. :eek:

i wanna move on. i want to get over it. but they keep adding insults to injury.

[jwd]

i really hope he's not even seeing any of the crap going on.

was so looking forward to fakewoods moving out of my area, finally. ito be done with their tour and their stupid disrespectful advertising. they were supposed to be gone outta here this week. yet now they still have to remake 2 shows around here (maybe they'll be cancelled?) and then they are now apparently being poor men's replacement for the Stones at the jazzfest. :eek:

i wanna move on. i want to get over it. but they keep adding insults to injury.

According to FM77, an insider of sorts, it will be their last tour. Thank God! Put this travesty to rest!!!

[TrueFaith77]

According to FM77, an insider of sorts, it will be their last tour. Thank God! Put this travesty to rest!!!

But I thought it was a “new band” 😂

Mick is disgusting

So all of this was for NOTHING

And it all ends, instead of a story of romance and redemption, as one of greed and revenge

I can’t wait to hear the songs that get written about it

But this is a tragedy

[Storms123]

But I thought it was a “new band” 😂

Mick is disgusting

So all of this was for NOTHING

And it all ends, instead of a story of romance and redemption, as one of greed and revenge

I can’t wait to hear the songs that get written about it

But this is a tragedy

And don’t forget all of the new music this new band is going to make. It’s a colossal F-you to many fans. Beyond sad

[David]

I just wanted to post to say hi, everybody.

(I had to go in to the office today to finish some work, so I'm kind of bored.)

[Street_Dreamer]

According to FM77, an insider of sorts, it will be their last tour. Thank God! Put this travesty to rest!!!

If true, this definitely makes this "incarnation" of Fleetwood Mac a cover band. It's one thing to go on the road but to not make new music is disgraceful and a slap in the face to Lindsey who was obviously willing to be flexible with his own schedule. Kind of a slap in the face to all the other members of the past who busted their ass in the studio and on the road.

[jbrownsjr]

I just wanted to post to say hi, everybody.

(I had to go in to the office today to finish some work, so I'm kind of bored.)

Hi, David! :wavey:

[bombaysaffires]

According to FM77, an insider of sorts, it will be their last tour. Thank God! Put this travesty to rest!!!

I think it should be, but I will believe it when I see it. You can never underestimate the greed.

For Stevie it would be easy, because of course she can tour solo.

If FM really does stop touring, I'd bet it would be more due to John and/or Christine and health issues. I can't see Mick being unwilling to go on, nor Stevie. But she gets less hassle and more of a cut going out solo. And more of her songs. :shrug:

Makes me wonder more about the discussions about firing Lindsey. If you knew this was your last tour, why boot him then? As LB points out, it sort of sh&ts on your legacy and the whole point of going out 'one last time'. A final tour should be a love letter to your fans and all the highlights of your career.

So one imagines the conversation being Stevie saying she won't tour with LB, the rest thinking well sh*t I was going to top off my bank account one last time (because clearly the thinking wasn't, hey this is our last tour let's be daring and do the set we always wanted to do or whatever) and Mick's whole admitted "we had to decide if we could do it anyway" which translates to "let's not leave all that money on the table".

But you know events like this jazz festival and other things will come up where people will ask them to play and Mick will run around trying to rally everyone else to do it. Who will he rally-- Mike and Neil as well? They will have moved on and have to consider dropping whatever they are doing for FM....not sure I see Mike doing that, but I suppose everyone has their price......:shrug:

[DeepBlueDee]

was so looking forward to fakewoods moving out of my area, finally. ito be done with their tour and their stupid disrespectful advertising. they were supposed to be gone outta here this week. yet now they still have to remake 2 shows around here (maybe they'll be cancelled?) and then they are now apparently being poor men's replacement for the Stones at the jazzfest. :eek:

i wanna move on. i want to get over it. but they keep adding insults to injury.

They have apparently cancelled their performance at Jazzfest too, due to Stevie having "the flu" :

https://www.nola.com/entertainment/2019/04/fleetwood-mac-cancels-may-2-jazz-fest-show.html

[lennonfan]

wondering if karma is catching up to Ms. you know who

[AliceLover]

The show (Boston 3/31) was weird. It wasn't like Say You Will when Christine just left. All I could think about the whole time was how they "fired" him. After all those years, all those albums, they just said goodbye. It just felt wrong. There was this underlying mean-spirited feeling that held over the whole show.

Of course, I still love Stevie and Christine. But, we're in a fight.

[michelej1]

The show (Boston 3/31) was weird. It wasn't like Say You Will when Christine just left. All I could think about the whole time was how they "fired" him. After all those years, all those albums, they just said goodbye. It just felt wrong. There was this underlying mean-spirited feeling that held over the whole show.



It was more like Buh-Bye than Goodbye. Buh-Bye, Baby.

[elle]

They have apparently cancelled their performance at Jazzfest too, due to Stevie having "the flu" :

https://www.nola.com/entertainment/2019/04/fleetwood-mac-cancels-may-2-jazz-fest-show.html

wondering if karma is catching up to Ms. you know who

Stevie will get better, i know she will - she has to!

[sprinkles fairy dust.]


[dedicates a song written about her to someone else.]

[button-lip]

Makes me wonder more about the discussions about firing Lindsey. If you knew this was your last tour, why boot him then? As LB points out, it sort of sh&ts on your legacy and the whole point of going out 'one last time'. A final tour should be a love letter to your fans and all the highlights of your career.

The whole point of firing Lindsey was giving him a lesson. No matter if if it was their last tour or if they were still planning on doing another tour. She waited until Musicares, but I have the feeling she wanted to fire him even before that event. Hey, at least she had the heart to let him receive his award in front of his family!

The show (Boston 3/31) was weird. It wasn't like Say You Will when Christine just left. All I could think about the whole time was how they "fired" him. After all those years, all those albums, they just said goodbye. It just felt wrong. There was this underlying mean-spirited feeling that held over the whole show.

Of course, I still love Stevie and Christine. But, we're in a fight.

What people don't understand is that they just. don't. care. They don't care about the legacy, they don't care about fans' feelings, and they certainly don't care at all about Lindsey's condition.

It's just the flu. She will be fine. She's inmortal. :angel:

[Nicks Fan]

Trouble in Shang ri la perhaps??? I think their in Trouble.

[button-lip]

Trouble in Shang ri la perhaps??? I think their in Trouble.

Don't you dare!!!! They're "happier than evahhhhhhhhh"!!!!!!! :laugh::laugh:

[michelej1]

Stevie will get better, i know she will - she has to!

[sprinkles fairy dust.]


[dedicates a song written about her to someone else.]

That's hilarious. Thinking of people for Lindsey to dedicate Stephanie to in the future.

[Mr Scarrott]

I've not quite given up, in the sense that I would buy any new music that this incarnation might deign to put out, but I'm not holding out much, no, hope is the wrong word...maybe completist interest...but I'm not going to see this lot live.

It's a pretty crappy way for it all to end. Part of me now wishes that Stevie would just leave them be and that the final act of this band could be a reconfiguration of Peter (maybe helped out by Rick Vito), Jeremy, Christine, John and Mick, playing the odd show here or there to bow out. That would be a way to go.

[HomerMcvie]

It's just the flu. She will be fine. She's inmortal. :angel:

Please don't come here paying this negative crap.

It just HAS to be something really serious. :lol:

[michelej1]

Trouble in Shang ri la perhaps??? I think their in Trouble.

They really should be saying goodnight. They really shouldn't stay anymore.

They were unconscious to the pain he was in.

[wayner]

Of course its over...been that way for over a year now. I don't even look at the constant threads about Mick or other band member's statements. "OMG, Mick pooped and he did not mention Lindsey" "OMG, the band did not mention Lindsey." "OMG the band did mention Lindsey but it was too short" Really? I don't care about any of that because I don't care about any of them anymore. By constantly replaying that stuff over and over it shows you have not given up IMHO.
Funny how Chris finally says she had no issues with Lindsey but went forward for the good of the band. Her loyalty to the band is what killed the band. Sounds nice but at what cost. I suppose its all about money especially at their stage of their lives. They are in their 70s and know they cant do this much longer. When 10 million is at stake, legacy is not a concern anymore. I love how Chris says the Mac is a democracy but then says the decision was needed for the band to survive. You cant have it both ways by alleging you may have voted against it but then agree and justify it at the same time.
Enjoy your bloody 10 million darling.


it is just very hard to give it up ........but the nails are in the coffin

[michelej1]

Please don't come here paying this negative crap.

It just HAS to be something really serious. :lol:

She's so brave. She knew she was under the weather, but she struggled for as long as she could for her band. Once the RRHOF ceremony was over, she just collapsed under the strain. She's carried them all for so long.

[Storms123]

She's so brave. She knew she was under the weather, but she struggled for as long as she could for her band. Once the RRHOF ceremony was over, she just collapsed under the strain. She's carried them all for so long.

Is it not odd that they know she's still going to have the flu 3 weeks from now?When does Europe kick off? Are they sparing her for that? Just seems odd--

[elle]

Stevie will get better, i know she will - she has to!

[sprinkles fairy dust.]


[dedicates a song written about her to someone else.]

That's hilarious. Thinking of people for Lindsey to dedicate Stephanie to in the future.
thank you! ha, i'm using that somewhere!

They really should be saying goodnight. They really shouldn't stay anymore.

They were unconscious to the pain he was in.
yup. we should start a thread under this name. time to hang it up. they are running themselves into the ground now - they should quit while they are still more/less healthy.

[michelej1]

Is it not odd that they know she's still going to have the flu 3 weeks from now?When does Europe kick off? Are they sparing her for that? Just seems odd--

I know what you mean, but to play devil's advocate, I traveled for Christmas and when I returned home I got a cold after New Year's. It is now more than 3 months later and I still have a cough from that. I'm not a singer and I don't have all of the remedies at my disposal that Stevie does. I really have not tried to do anything for my cough except tea, honey and Alka Seltzer. But I am pretty sure if I had a flu today, I'd still have a cough in May.

[elle]

Is it not odd that they know she's still going to have the flu 3 weeks from now?When does Europe kick off? Are they sparing her for that? Just seems odd--

it is odd. flu normally doesn't last for a month. so if she's sick it's probably something worse. hope whatever it is that she recuperates and will be fine.

but why this band's first instinct is to so obviously lie about everything is just weird.

[Storms123]

it is odd. flu doesn't last for a month. so if she's sick it's probably something worse. hope whatever it is that she recuperates and will be fine.

but why this band's first instinct is to so obviously lie about everything is just weird.

Totally agree--I don't wish anyone any ill health/harm. But yes, why the lies, but we've been asking this question for almost a year.

[Jondalar]

it is odd. flu doesn't last for a month. so if she's sick it's probably something worse. hope whatever it is that she recuperates and will be fine.

but why this band's first instinct is to so obviously lie about everything is just weird.

Didn’t her mom go into the hospital for the flu and then die? She is 71 years old. It takes longer to recuperate. Plus, she has to travel and will have to come in contact with a lot of people.

[elle]

Didn’t her mom go into the hospital for the flu and then die? She is 71 years old. It takes longer to recuperate. Plus, she has to travel and will have to come in contact with a lot of people.

her mom had pneumonia.

but you might be right, flu definitely does take longer and is worse for older people, that's why they are so strongly recommending old people and very young get vaccinated. plus these particular old people have led - shall we say it nicely - very non-health conscious lives.

sounds like it's time to hang it up.

[HomerMcvie]

She's so brave. She knew she was under the weather, but she struggled for as long as she could for her band. Once the RRHOF ceremony was over, she just collapsed under the strain. She's carried them all for so long.

I can dream of being able to carry her, someday(hopefully soon). Just me, and 5 other people. :D

[BombaySapphire3]

I can dream of being able to carry her, someday(hopefully soon). Just me, and 5 other people. :D

Maybe we can get a choir of munchkins to sing at the service:shrug:

[HomerMcvie]

Maybe we can get a choir of munchkins to sing at the service:shrug:

Squeeeee! Dreams can come true! :blob2::blob2::blob2:

[SteveMacD]

but why this band's first instinct is to so obviously lie about everything is just weird.

Just a guess, but something like that might involve insurance.

[BigAl84]

I can't believe nobody posted the news. How can all of you be this far behind the 8-ball. I've got the dirt. Buckle up for this one:

Christine smirked. At the RRHOF ceremony. Let's just say it got very Delores Clairborne, very quickly. Word on the street is they are trying to put it all back together, however Christine has been trying to reach out to the band for the past 4 days to no avail.

Mick and John were spotted at a cheese steak truck in Philly discussing their options of replacing Christine with Sheryl Crow AGAIN.

[lovethemac1]

Maybe we can get a choir of munchkins to sing at the service:shrug:

Or a gaggle of goats...............

[lovethemac1]

I can't believe nobody posted the news. How can all of you be this far behind the 8-ball. I've got the dirt. Buckle up for this one:

Christine smirked. At the RRHOF ceremony. Let's just say it got very Delores Clairborne, very quickly. Word on the street is they are trying to put it all back together, however Christine has been trying to reach out to the band for the past 4 days to no avail.

Mick and John were spotted at a cheese steak truck in Philly discussing their options of replacing Christine with Sheryl Crow AGAIN.

OMG!!!!:xoxo: This was too funny!!!:nod:

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=bombaysaffires;1251863]I think it should be, but I will believe it when I see it. You can never underestimate the greed.

Mi$k will be touring when he's 98...he'll be propped up in a wheelchair behind the drums and then wheeled out after the show to sell t shirts. I'm not even joking.

[BigAl84]

OMG!!!!:xoxo: This was too funny!!!:nod:

Allegedly discussions at the cheesesteak truck revolved around re-working the set to include all sorts of material from deep in their catalog that they've never been able to do before with Christine in the band. This will be the most unique set they've ever done according to inside sources.

[jmn3]

Allegedly discussions at the cheesesteak truck revolved around re-working the set to include all sorts of material from deep in their catalog that they've never been able to do before with Christine in the band. This will be the most unique set they've ever done according to inside sources.

Stand Back finally makes its triumphant return....many twirls, the shawl, and modified leg kick included.

And that crackhead dance is going to last an hour.

[Storms123]

Stand Back finally makes its triumphant return....many twirls, the shawl, and modified leg kick included.

And that crackhead dance is going to last an hour.

The crackhead dance is actually going to be a duet now....combo with the blasted drum solo

[jeets2000]

In the context of this post's original topic, "who has given up," and expanding that a bit to, well, the band itself, I found this write-up about Aerosmith's Vegas residency (https://www.thewrap.com/aerosmith-draws-a-line-refuses-to-pander-in-exhilarating-start-to-vegas-residency-review/) to be pretty interesting. I am no fan of theirs and agree with the Vulture writer who put them near the bottom of the Hall's 200+ inductees, but nevertheless, stuff like this is nice to hear:

Tyler, guitarists Joe Perry and Brad Whitford, bassist Tom Hamilton and drummer Joey Kramer took pains to remind people that they’ve been at this, with a couple of breaks for fights and rehab, for close to 50 years.

“What the f— are you sitting down for?” Tyler said early in the show, shaming an audience member in the front who had the audacity to… sit. “Get the f— up. This is Vegas.”

Making the most of a stellar THX-certified L-ISA sound system within the Park Theater at the Park MGM, the band tore through their back catalogue with little-to-no pandering to any casual fans in attendance.

...

Aerosmith still rocks, hard, not in spite of their five decades but because of them. They’re tougher and scrappier than they used to be, the way Hugh Jackman is sharper as old Wolverine in “Logan” than he was as fresh face in the first “X-Men.” They’re at a point where they have nothing to prove, and could easily rely on a slew of backup musicians to carry them through their just-short-of-two-hour show. They act like they don’t give a damn anymore, but play like they do.

Glad someone is still taking this stuff seriously. Even if it's Aerosmith! :lol:

[wayner]

In the context of this post's original topic, "who has given up," and expanding that a bit to, well, the band itself, I found this write-up about Aerosmith's Vegas residency (https://www.thewrap.com/aerosmith-draws-a-line-refuses-to-pander-in-exhilarating-start-to-vegas-residency-review/) to be pretty interesting. I am no fan of theirs and agree with the Vulture writer who put them near the bottom of the Hall's 200+ inductees, but nevertheless, stuff like this is nice to hear:



Glad someone is still taking this stuff seriously. Even if it's Aerosmith! :lol:

Jeets

I appreciate your comment , and understand

My reason for this thread was that i had been away from life and music for a long while , and Fleetwood Mac brought me back in 2009 ... for that I'm thankful but the disappointment of all this bullshjit is so childish , we are all after all 70 + or almost years old , and FM are acting like children

i expected more from them

guess we are all human , ,but thats still no excuse for how they treated Lindsey

[fleetwoodguy79]

I'm sorry you suffered through that. I didn't expect to read anything like that in response to my post. At first I thought about not responding cause I don't know what to say but that didn't feel right. All I can say is I'm so sorry bad things happened to you. Sincerely. Hugs to you.

As for LB--- I'll cont to support him whole heartedly!

Really, thank you so much for the kind words. Support from others are what is getting me through this, with also the help of a professional.

I know that it's hard to write back to things like that. So, thank you for having the courage to do so. I'd give you a hug back if I could!

Thanks for sharing, fleetwoodguy79. The power of music should never be underestimated. You will get through this.

If it's not too personal, I would love to know some of the songs that helped you during that difficult time.

Indeed. Music has changed my life for the better and I know that I'm not alone (or wrong...).

Not too personal of an ask --

The two albums that spoke to me most were "Tusk" and "Out of the Cradle". Any song that felt like healing of pain was like a warm blanket for me. I would listen to those CDs with my headphones on in bed all through the night sometimes just to try and sleep and shut off my brain. It felt like my body was the cause (even though I was 10) and as someone that young, it's terrifying to think that something is wrong with you that you can't fix and can't talk to anyone about.

On "Tusk", the songs that most helped were, "Storms", "Brown Eyes", "Honey, Hi", "Beautiful Child", and "Walk a Thin Line".

When I found Out of the Cradle, there were so many songs that helped me though it was very uncool at that time (mid-late 90s) as a kid to enjoy that kind of music. Remember, grunge was still in and hard-edge music was the thing to listen to.

"Surrender the Rain" and "Street of Dreams" were amazing songs for me. "Turn it On" also had something behind the words and melodies that helped me face the day -- I remember listening to it on repeat after a bad night on the bus the next morning.

I'll lastly share... I went to one of Lindsey's solo shows last year with my wife. I was not prepared for it.

When Lindsey started playing "Surrender the Rain", I lost it in the middle of the theater. Completely lost it. I couldn't move. Sobbing uncontrollably. It was so moving. All of those memories flooded back to me at once -- the positive ones -- about how much I had to cling to that song to live. It was a warm blanket in that moment again, too. My wife is an amazing human being for putting up with me like that.

That's the power of music. Thanks for listening, I really appreciate the support; and that's also why I'm "done".

[TrueFaith77]

The crackhead dance is actually going to be a duet now....combo with the blasted drum solo

a co-worker of mine said that the drum solo was his favorite part of the concert. I was like... wtf?

[jmn3]

a co-worker of mine said that the drum solo was his favorite part of the concert. I was like... wtf?

I don’t care what incarnation of this band you see in concert, if you walk away from a show and the Drum Solo is the highlight for you, someone, somewhere, failed.

[Storms123]

a co-worker of mine said that the drum solo was his favorite part of the concert. I was like... wtf?

Wow. That’s all Mick needs to hear. It will be a 90 minute drum solo, the crackhead dance and a tribute to TP

[Street_Dreamer]

Wow. That’s all Mick needs to hear. It will be a 90 minute drum solo, the crackhead dance and a tribute to TP

Don't forget the vest with all the sound effects.

[fleetwoodguy79]

Don't forget the vest with all the sound effects.

The crotch grab and ensuing sound effect was the last straw for me.