On with the Show and Carnival Begin

[secret love]

I am almost positive Lindsey and Christine were saving On with the Show and Carnival Begin to play on a Rumours 5 Fleetwood Mac tour.

Do you agree? I mean, they named their last tour after the song On with the Show, probably signed off on the tour name when four of them still believed they were going to release a final Fleetwood Mac album. Before Stevie killed off that idea.

And on another topic- do you think the big love in between Stevie and Lindsey on the 2013 tour was fake? "Our relationship was fantastic" and "Now we're such good friends and we get on great" I remember Stevie saying while introducing Without You. All a lie?

[jbrownsjr]

The thought did occur to me that they might want to do those on the next tour.

Also, I've always believed that $tevie and Lindsey have had moments of post break up friendship, (after the fact) and let it fuel their stage work. It's authentic when that happens.

Sometimes, you keep your ex around to hurt them over and over again. And, I think that's what both of them did. I always felt that LB moved on a lot faster than $he because of his marriage and family. Additionally he then moves on musically with Christine and oh boy.. here comes the hachet, axe and saw. Bitter, angry, liar... party of one....

[SteveMacD]

The whole “on with the show” phrase first showed up on “Miss Fantasy“ on EP. I don’t think there was any serious consideration that an album would be done by the 2014 tour, far less new songs being performed on it. I think we got exactly what was intended for that.

I think Stevie and Lindsey worked very hard to establish a new working relationship in light of Christine’s absence. Lindsey became a lot softer with her working hard to convince her to record with him. She then became more sentimental about him, wanting to return to a simpler time in their relationship, back to the Buckingham Nicks days.

Christine’s return upset that. Lindsey didn’t have to act in the play anymore. He now had a willing participant in Christine. There was an overestimation on his part that Stevie would absolutely participate in a full Fleetwood Mac album. I suspect maybe he became over confident in that assumption and stopped being soft with Stevie altogether. She in turn put up an even bigger wall between two of them. In some ways, it paralleled what happened with them in 1975.

I don’t think Stevie was jealous about LBCM. I DO think she saw how much more successful her tour was relative to theirs and realized that she was a much bigger draw than the other two combined and had a lot more power in the band than they had at that point.

Then the Classics came around. Lindsey made his comments, which pissed off Azoff; had strained interactions with Stevie, which pissed Stevie off; shot down Mick’s desire to do some early years songs, which pissed off Mick; and (initially) asked for a delay, which was the last straw.

[button-lip]

The thought did occur to me that they might want to do those on the next tour.

Also, I've always believed that $tevie and Lindsey have had moments of post break up friendship, (after the fact) and let it fuel their stage work. It's authentic when that happens.

Sometimes, you keep your ex around to hurt them over and over again. And, I think that's what both of them did. I always felt that LB moved on a lot faster than $he because of his marriage and family. Additionally he then moves on musically with Christine and oh boy.. here comes the hachet, axe and saw. Bitter, angry, liar... party of one....


They might want to do those two on the FM tour, but of course $tevie would have never allowed it.

I agree about keeping each other close in order to hurt the other. He did bad things to her. $he did bad things to him. But oh boy, her last move clearly took him by surprise. I believe he never saw it coming. Which means he could have never done something so bad to her, no matter how at odds they were with each other.

Everything was fantastic until Christine returned. And it shouldn't have been that way, because supposedly they're all friends. Obviously not as friends as they all are now :lol::lol::lol:

Which only reinforces the notion of how twisted her mind is right now. :rolleyes:

[elle]

I am almost positive Lindsey and Christine were saving On with the Show and Carnival Begin to play on a Rumours 5 Fleetwood Mac tour.

that's been the theory going around a lot. that since those 2 songs, more than any others on BuckVie, are such FM songs. many fans speculated that LB and CM put the idea out for the FM tour, so that there's at least something different on the new tour. the theory then goes that idea drove Stevie ballistic. so i guess Mick and her went to Italy or NZ or wherever and came up with doing 50 yo songs as opposed to 1 yo songs. because after all, why try to move forward when nostalgia singalongs sell. :shrug:

The whole “on with the show” phrase first showed up on “Miss Fantasy“ on EP.
Miss Fantasy and On With The Show were initially recorded and registered at the same time, back in 2011. they were just finished at different times, one with SN and the other with CM. we knew both titles already back in 2011/12, there is a thread somewhere here with that info.

[SteveMacD]

They might want to do those two on the FM tour, but of course $tevie would have never allowed it.
The only flaw in that logic is that it’s also Stevie who wanted to sing “Black Magic Woman” and “All Over Again” which were done outside of her tenure. In theory, why would a song from Time be any less offensive than something from LBCM?

But oh boy, her last move clearly took him bad surprise. I believe he never saw it coming.
Checkmate. Queen beats pawn, so I’ve heard.

[elle]

Checkmate. Queen beats pawn, so I’ve heard.

interesting picture you came up with - it certainly sounds like a Stevie Nicks' and her cult following lifelong dream, doesn't it? :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

interesting picture you came up with - it certainly sounds like a Stevie Nicks' and her cult following lifelong dream, doesn't it? :laugh:

Totally does, but if people keep making the past 40+ years of their relationship analogous to a chess match, it was bound to happen eventually.

[button-lip]

interesting picture you came up with - it certainly sounds like a Stevie Nicks' and her cult following lifelong dream, doesn't it? :laugh:

It doesn’t matter. You know that when a pawn reaches the other end of the chess board it can be promoted to a Queen, a Rook, a Bishop or a Knight?

Anything but a King.

Knight Buckingham sounds good to me. :D

[jeets2000]

The only flaw in that logic is that it’s also Stevie who wanted to sing “Black Magic Woman” and “All Over Again” which were done outside of her tenure. In theory, why would a song from Time be any less offensive than something from LBCM?

Spite?

I'm not saying that IS the answer necessarily, but it's a pretty simple explanation for your question. Occam's razor, and all that...

[Buster]

interesting picture you came up with - it certainly sounds like a Stevie Nicks' and her cult following lifelong dream, doesn't it? :laugh:

You using the word cult is priceless.

[Buster]

Careful, Steve, you are going against “The Theory”.

[BigAl84]

The whole “on with the show” phrase first showed up on “Miss Fantasy“ on EP. I don’t think there was any serious consideration that an album would be done by the 2014 tour, far less new songs being performed on it. I think we got exactly what was intended for that.

I think Stevie and Lindsey worked very hard to establish a new working relationship in light of Christine’s absence. Lindsey became a lot softer with her working hard to convince her to record with him. She then became more sentimental about him, wanting to return to a simpler time in their relationship, back to the Buckingham Nicks days.

Christine’s return upset that. Lindsey didn’t have to act in the play anymore. He now had a willing participant in Christine. There was an overestimation on his part that Stevie would absolutely participate in a full Fleetwood Mac album. I suspect maybe he became over confident in that assumption and stopped being soft with Stevie altogether. She in turn put up an even bigger wall between two of them. In some ways, it paralleled what happened with them in 1975.

I don’t think Stevie was jealous about LBCM. I DO think she saw how much more successful her tour was relative to theirs and realized that she was a much bigger draw than the other two combined and had a lot more power in the band than they had at that point.

Then the Classics came around. Lindsey made his comments, which pissed off Azoff; had strained interactions with Stevie, which pissed Stevie off; shot down Mick’s desire to do some early years songs, which pissed off Mick; and (initially) asked for a delay, which was the last straw.


I don't believe anything has been proven that Lindsey said anything to Mick refusing to play early material.

[elle]

You using the word cult is priceless.

look, Buster: should i be worried? you seem to be obsessed with me.

lately, your almost every other post here have being directed at me, throwing insults and calling me names, even in threads which have nothing to do with me. maybe it's time for you to block me if my posts upset you to this degree.

you seem to be falsely ascribing to me some kind of special powers - as if i'm somehow responsible for everything and anything said or done by any dissapointed FM fan siding with LB in the last year's debacle. plus, as many have said over and over, most people whose actions you seem to be calling out are not even LB fans to begin with. they are usually disenchanted FM or SN fans.

as far as using the word cult: many of us use that word to distinguish people who are SN fans from blind followers who think she poops rainbows and cannot do anything wrong. if you have better word to use, please do suggest it. and, i never called you specifically and don't consider you a part of SN cult. on the other hand, with every post you keep throwing out more and more insults at people who have been loud on social media siding with LB in the last year's debacle, calling all these people "crazed Lindsey freaks" or some such phrasing.

[button-lip]

Spite?

I'm not saying that IS the answer necessarily, but it's a pretty simple explanation for your question. Occam's razor, and all that...

Exactly. She could have easily asked Mick to add Carnival Begin on the setlist. You know, a Christine's song. But no. And we know why.

I don't believe anything has been proven that Lindsey said anything to Mick refusing to play early material.

Careful. Don't go against "The Theory". You know, that's all Lindsey's fault. :rolleyes:

[elle]

Totally does, but if people keep making the past 40+ years of their relationship analogous to a chess match, it was bound to happen eventually.

i don't think i follow this:


where are people calling past 40+ years of LB-SN relationship a chess match?
what was bound to happen?

[cbBen]

The only flaw in that logic is that it’s also Stevie who wanted to sing “Black Magic Woman” and “All Over Again” which were done outside of her tenure. In theory, why would a song from Time be any less offensive than something from LBCM?

Because unlike "All Over Again" LBCM was recorded during her tenure with the band, but without her participation. It may be awkwardness more than offensiveness.

[SteveMacD]

i don't think i follow this:


where are people calling past 40+ years of LB-SN relationship a chess match?
what was bound to happen?


You do realize that the whole “make a move” idiom originated from chess, right?

[SteveMacD]

Exactly. She could have easily asked Mick to add Carnival Begin on the setlist. You know, a Christine's song. But no. And we know why.

Yeah, I guess she could have, although the assumption that “we know why” is laughable. I mean, LBCM didn’t play it live. Was that Stevie’s fault, too?

Because unlike "All Over Again" LBCM was recorded during her tenure with the band, but without her participation. It may be awkwardness more than offensiveness.

OTOH, Time was made at a time when she had a very publicly acrimonious relationship with the band.

[elle]

You do realize that the whole “make a move” idiom originated from chess, right?

Who are you talking to that’s using all that chess language?

#stillthesamequestion

[jeets2000]

Who are you talking to that’s using all that chess language?

#stillthesamequestion

I just ran a search, and maybe I didn't do it right, but the phrase "make a move" literally only appeared in this thread. :laugh:

In theory, why would a song from Time be any less offensive than something from LBCM?

OTOH, Time was made at a time when she had a very publicly acrimonious relationship with the band.

I don't know man, if you think Stevie today, in 2018-19, cares about the "acrimonious" Time era in the same way as LBCM, I don't think I can help you. :shrug:

[secret love]

I was going to start a new thread for my next question but it sits well here too. But on the thread topic, I think you'll agree no way was Lindsey going to play On with the Show on his solo tour when he was no longer part of that show. The only reason I think Christine isn't doing Carnival Begin on this tour is that it uses music similar to I'm So Afraid, so it is very much a Lindsey co-write and out of respect for Lindsey she is not playing it...without him.

What sounds more Fleetwood Mac-y: Say You Will or Buckingham McVie?
Also: by many accounts including by Mick Fleetwood's account, Christine wanted to write and record songs for Say You Will, if she could be assured that she was not required to tour. The band said sorry, no can do. Stevie wanted to tour but didn't have a single new song to offer to Buckingham McVie (of course she actually had dozens of old demos and a relatively new song My Mother's Rings) and the band, including Lindsey at the time said sure, no problem Stevie, of course you don't have to record in order to tour.
Double standard?

[cbBen]

What sounds more Fleetwood Mac-y: Say You Will or Buckingham McVie?

Say You Will. Without the Stevie/Lindsey interplay it just isn't FM to me.

[HomerMcvie]

Say You Will. Without the Stevie/Lindsey interplay it just isn't FM to me.

Ugh. Without the Lindsey/Christine interplay, is just isn't FM to me.

SYW blows goats. No, not that one.

[cbBen]

Also: by many accounts including by Mick Fleetwood's account, Christine wanted to write and record songs for Say You Will, if she could be assured that she was not required to tour. The band said sorry, no can do.

Business-wise, this seems odd. Everyone had to know a reunion of the full Rumours lineup would be a huge selling point.

Creatively, it also seems odd. While not a perfect parallel, it would be akin to Eric Clapton refusing to include Duane Allman in the Derek & The Dominos studio sessions for Layla because Allman wasn't prepared to tour with them as well.

Regardless, it's not a double standard because they never made plans to tour the Buckingham McVie material whereas they explicitly planned to tour behind the material on Say You Will.

[elle]

I just ran a search, and maybe I didn't do it right, but the phrase "make a move" literally only appeared in this thread. :laugh:





I don't know man, if you think Stevie today, in 2018-19, cares about the "acrimonious" Time era in the same way as LBCM, I don't think I can help you. :shrug:

:nod: :xoxo: :wavey:

[SteveMacD]

Say You Will. Without the Stevie/Lindsey interplay it just isn't FM to me.

LBCM.

The musical interplay between Mick, John, and Christine is what I associate most with Fleetwood Mac. Time sounded more like Fleetwood Mac to me than SYW.

[BLY]

LBCM.

The musical interplay between Mick, John, and Christine is what I associate most with Fleetwood Mac. Time sounded more like Fleetwood Mac to me than SYW.


This I can’t agree with. I do think Time sounds as much as Fleetwood Mac as Say You Will as LBCM. If Mick and John are present it’s FLEETWOOD MAC.

[secondhandchain]

Want to know why I think she's not played it live yet? There is no way she can hit those notes live. NO.WAY. "I want it ALL.." Croak croak croak....

[sue]

[QUOTE=secret love;1248111]I was going to start a new thread for my next question but it sits well here too.

What sounds more Fleetwood Mac-y: Say You Will or Buckingham McVie?


Say You Will.....no contest.
I know it’s heresy to say BUT...I’m not that keen on the album Buckingham/Mcvie..
Each to their own and I find SYW far more fulfilling and lasting.

[aleuzzi]

I was going to start a new thread for my next question but it sits well here too. But on the thread topic, I think you'll agree no way was Lindsey going to play On with the Show on his solo tour when he was no longer part of that show. The only reason I think Christine isn't doing Carnival Begin on this tour is that it uses music similar to I'm So Afraid, so it is very much a Lindsey co-write and out of respect for Lindsey she is not playing it...without him.

What sounds more Fleetwood Mac-y: Say You Will or Buckingham McVie?
Also: by many accounts including by Mick Fleetwood's account, Christine wanted to write and record songs for Say You Will, if she could be assured that she was not required to tour. The band said sorry, no can do. Stevie wanted to tour but didn't have a single new song to offer to Buckingham McVie (of course she actually had dozens of old demos and a relatively new song My Mother's Rings) and the band, including Lindsey at the time said sure, no problem Stevie, of course you don't have to record in order to tour.
Double standard?

CARNIVAL BEGIN is most certainly NOT a Lindsey co-write. The song shares the same mood and even mode of I’m So Afraid, but that mood and mode are stock-in-trade devices of rock and blues. John, Christine, and Mick’s presence on both songs is as much a reason for the drawn-out minor-key blues riffs. CB may even stand on the shoulders of ISA in that regard, since ISA came first, but ISA was itself a chip off THE GREEN MENALISHI, and that owed some of its mood and mode to LOVE THAT BURNS. Etc. CB innovates in its own ways and is its own accomplishment, much as SMILE I LIVE FOR before it explored similar terrain yet in its own unique way.

[HomerMcvie]

CB may even stand on the shoulders of ISA in that regard, since the latter came first, but the latter was itself a chip off THE GREEN MENALISHI,

I always thought the former came first?:p

Carry on...:rolleyes:

[aleuzzi]

I always thought the former came first?:p

Carry on...:rolleyes:

My syntax was so cray cray I cornered myself into that bizarre sentence! But the substance of it holds true. I edited it.

[HomerMcvie]

My syntax was so cray cray I cornered myself into that bizarre sentence! But the substance of it holds true. I edited it.

Sorry, I'm very anal about language(not that I'm perfekt, because I'm not).:wavey:

[Kyle]

Sorry, I'm very anal about language(not that I'm perfekt, because I'm not).:wavey:

Christine Perfekt. I would have liked that.

[HomerMcvie]

Christine Perfekt. I would have liked that.

I've got a pic of her in her "Perfekt" T-shirt, somewhere on this computer...wish it was easier to post pics here.

I've got one where she doesn't have the jacket over it, but I can't find it in my archives.

[jbrownsjr]

LBCM.

The musical interplay between Mick, John, and Christine is what I associate most with Fleetwood Mac. Time sounded more like Fleetwood Mac to me than SYW.

Absolutely! But then again, I started at Heroes...

[aleuzzi]

Sorry, I'm very anal about language(not that I'm perfekt, because I'm not).:wavey:

Never apologize about careful reading and attention to language.