Say You Will - Wrong Songs Pushed By Label/Band

[cbBen]

They picked two of the least interesting tracks for singles. Hearing "Say You Will" or "Peacekeeper" on TV would not motivate many people to say, "I've got to get that album." Even though some may dislike it, "Everybody Finds Out" or even "Destiny Rules" is different enough to do just that.

"Say You Will" was a doubly bad choice because not only is it fairly conventional, it also isn't particularly good.

[lovethemac1]

Peacekeeper was what brought me to this album. I love that song.

[jmn3]

I always thought Say You Will the song was a weak single and song to be continuously pimped live throughout the tour. It always seemed like the most obvious “Christine-ish” song which just doesn’t work for Stevie. Everybody Finds Out or Thrown Down would’ve been far better choices IMO. I think from a live perspective, EFO would’ve been killer.

I liked Peacekeeper back when it came out. It’s a bit forgettable however.

[cbBen]

"At least give me time to change your mind" is cringe-worthy. It is completely unlyrical, not to mention a tepid line for a love song.

[HomerMcvie]

Peacekeeper was what brought me to this album. I love that song.

It's a catchy song, but not a lifetime keeper. And I HATE the bird noises throughout it.

[Macfan4life]

They picked two of the least interesting tracks for singles. Hearing "Say You Will" or "Peacekeeper" on TV would not motivate many people to say, "I've got to get that album." Even though some may dislike it, "Everybody Finds Out" or even "Destiny Rules" is different enough to do just that.

"Say You Will" was a doubly bad choice because not only is it fairly conventional, it also isn't particularly good.
Singles are not picked because of they are the best songs on an album. That has always been the case.
I think Say You Will should have been the lead single and tweaked a bit first. Is it my favorite? No way but its the most radio friendly single on the album. Even Stevie said she never purposely wrote hit songs but when she wrote Say You Will she said if this is not a hit, nothing is. It would have done much better than Peacekeeper. However, the Mac is not a current band. There was no way any song of the album was going to land in the top 15 or something.

With a proper video, it would have done better than Peacekeeper. However, Stevie has never been given the lead off single of any Mac album. They kept that standard for SYW.

[petep9000]

Singles are not picked because of they are the best songs on an album. That has always been the case.

What goes into the selection of a single, then?

[David]

Tusk the single wasn't friendly to radio, either. There was no precedent on radio in 1979 for that.

In 2003, Fleetwood should have released Come, Illume, or Red Rover as the lead single. The idea should have been to stand out, not to blend in. The only chance for a single from that band to have done anything in 2003 would have been to get listeners to say, "What the feck is that?"

That is indeed what everyone said when Tusk was first played on the radio. Say You Will the single—the sweet little sing-along that was the musical equivalent of a hot cocoa with whipped cream—meant nothing to nobody in 2003, and got sh|tcanned off the radio ere five minutes had passed.

[bwboy]

Tusk the single wasn't friendly to radio, either. There was no precedent on radio in 1979 for that.

In 2003, Fleetwood should have released Come, Illume, or Red Rover as the lead single. The idea should have been to stand out, not to blend in. The only chance for a single from that band to have done anything in 2003 would have been to get listeners to say, "What the feck is that?"

That is indeed what everyone said when Tusk was first played on the radio. Say You Will the single—the sweet little sing-along that was the musical equivalent of a hot cocoa with whipped cream—meant nothing to nobody in 2003, and got sh|tcanned off the radio ere five minutes had passed.

Nothing Fleetwood Mac released was ever going to get radio play, but the idea that Illume, Red Rover, or Come would have is pretty hard to believe.

Yes, Tusk was an unusual song, and certainly an unusual lead single. However, it followed one of the most successful albums ever released... in 1979, just about any song from Tusk that was the lead single would have gotten significant radio play. 2003? No. My local radio station played Peacekeeper regularly, but Come or Red Rover or Illume? Would never have happened.

[Macfan4life]

Tusk the single wasn't friendly to radio, either. There was no precedent on radio in 1979 for that.

In 2003, Fleetwood should have released Come, Illume, or Red Rover as the lead single. The idea should have been to stand out, not to blend in. The only chance for a single from that band to have done anything in 2003 would have been to get listeners to say, "What the feck is that?"

That is indeed what everyone said when Tusk was first played on the radio. Say You Will the single—the sweet little sing-along that was the musical equivalent of a hot cocoa with whipped cream—meant nothing to nobody in 2003, and got sh|tcanned off the radio ere five minutes had passed.
David David David
You are smarter than all of us put together :)
Tusk is not the standard for any music album. The entire idea of the double album was to go against the grain.
You know as well as anyone that the record company has a big say what the singles are. While most of us may like or think Straight Back is the best or one of the best songs on Mirage, its not going to released as a single.
A great example is Bella Donna. Quoting the man who created the album Jimmy Iovine. Bella Donna was a great album but no one was going to hear it because it had no single. Thus he brought SDMHA to the album. Same concept as Talk To Me.
Isn't it Midnight is the best or one of the best songs on Tango but it was not going to released as the first or fourth single.
You get the point, no?
Its not my standard but they pick the most commercial song possible. (The entire Tusk album was not commercial - that was the idea).

[MikeInNV]

Nothing Fleetwood Mac released was ever going to get radio play, but the idea that Illume, Red Rover, or Come would have is pretty hard to believe.

Yes, Tusk was an unusual song, and certainly an unusual lead single. However, it followed one of the most successful albums ever released... in 1979, just about any song from Tusk that was the lead single would have gotten significant radio play. 2003? No. My local radio station played Peacekeeper regularly, but Come or Red Rover or Illume? Would never have happened.

That's exactly right. Fleetwood Mac could have done anything in 1979. They did not have that luxury in 2003. The songs had to be radio friendly in order to have even the modest success that they did.

[elle]

In 2003, Fleetwood should have released Come, Illume, or Red Rover as the lead single. The idea should have been to stand out, not to blend in.
interesting - could have gone either way probably. Come is definitely interesting and different! so is Red Rover, but in a very different way.

then again, SYW the album and whatever lead single was should have come in 1998, 1999 the latest, not 2003. so it could have all gone differently. they had most of those songs in the can, should have released the album.

oh yeah, i forgot, Stevie needed to record solo album and release best of instead of working with the band, therefore postponing FM album for 5 years.

My local radio station played Peacekeeper regularly,
mine too. i was not a FM fan at the time, and i noticed and enjoyed it.
so yeah it definitely got a regular radio play. it made sense to because the song was catchy and lyrics were sounding political and interesting.

Peacekeeper is the only SYW single i ever heard on the regular radio. i had no clue SYW was also a single and have never heard SYW the song until i started looking up LB and FM music on youtube in 2009.

[SteveMacD]

Who would have thought “Over My Head” could have been the breakout single?

“Miranda” would have been my choice. It’s quirky and catchy.

[secondhandchain]

Peacekeeper was what brought me to this album. I love that song.

When I first heard it i CRINGED. Total rip off (even if unintentional) Kodachrome chorus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rlDTK6QI-w

[BLY]

Steal Your Heart Away would have been the best first single to release off SYW.

[Macfan4life]

Who would have thought “Over My Head” could have been the breakout single?

“Miranda” would have been my choice. It’s quirky and catchy.
Are you kidding me? Pretend its 1975 and especially Mac has been transformed from a Blues Band. Over My Head was the perfect first radio single. Stevie always said she never wanted them to release Rhiannon because no one thought it was a single and did not want to see it dragged through the mud.

The Mac released Warm Ways as its first single in England which turned out to not be a wise choice. Its a beautiful song but usually the best songs are not the most commercial ones unfortunately.

Speaking about David's post about going in a new direction with SYW singles...….. I would have loved for Isnt it Midnight be released as the first single from Tango. Its the album's best song IMHO. But the entire world was waiting for the first song from the Mac in 5 years. It would have been a hit even a small one. It may not have charted as well but would have made a statement. They could have releases all of their radio friendly singles afterwards which would have been just as successful. But this would have made the Mac more credible as a rock band. The Tango singles are pure pop commercial songs.

Don't get me wrong. Everybody finds out is my favorite from SYW and I would have released it as the first single. I am speaking in reality what the record company wants and thinks will be most likely a hit.

[David]

That's exactly right. Fleetwood Mac could have done anything in 1979. They did not have that luxury in 2003. The songs had to be radio friendly in order to have even the modest success that they did.
My point got slightly misinterpreted. In what way was Say You Will (the song) radio friendly in the 2003 market? It's a song that chugs along sweetly in 4/4 with all its pat ingredients from 1978 firmly in place: the sing-along chorus, the insta-sugar sentiment of the lyrics, the chiming acoustic guitars, the safe and sane electric lead right out of the session hack's playbook, the cloth-rich harmonies, etc. Everything was lifted right out of three decades earlier. What did kids in 2003 care about any of that?

How did Say You Will "fit" with what we were all listening to in 2003 (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/23/best-2003-songs_n_3636519.html)?

In suggesting Come and those other songs, I was trying to think of anything on the album that would have gotten some attention owing to its more contemporary sound. Say You Will fooled no one. If people heard it at all, they heard it as intentionally retro blandness. It's been Fleetwood Mac's curse ever since the mid-seventies, when THEY were the measure of what radio hits should sound like, to try to regain that stature by going deliberately retro. But the only time I can think of when that approach worked for them (commercially) was with the 1997 reunion -- and there were peripheral reasons for that particular victory.

[David]

Are you kidding me? Pretend its 1975 and especially Mac has been transformed from a Blues Band. Over My Head was the perfect first radio single. Precisely. Over My Head fit right in with radio in 1975--James Taylor's How Sweet It Is, Johnny Nash's Tears on My Pillow, and all the other soft-pop ballads by Olivia Newton-John and Natalie Cole and the Eagles and John Denver and 10cc. There was nothing outlandish or musically odd about Over My Head at all. In 1975, remember, most of us were still listening to AM. (I was listening to Elton John and Redbone and Tavares and Frankie Valli and KC and the Sunshine Band and the Carpenters and the Bee Gees and Captain and Tennille and Neil Sedaka. I was a blandly commercial little boy, but I sure loved Come and Get Your Love and It Only Takes a Minute, Girl, to Fall in Love, the two greatest songs of all Western history.

Everybody finds out is my favorite from SYW and I would have released it as the first single.Me, too. I play that at the gym for my workouts to this day. Anyway we can! Anytime we can! Anyway!

[David]

“Miranda” would have been my choice. It’s quirky and catchy.
Might have gotten some airplay. They should release it now!

[SteveMacD]

Are you kidding me? Pretend its 1975 and especially Mac has been transformed from a Blues Band.
Are YOU kidding ME?

Fleetwood Mac stopped being a blues band back 1969 with Albatross. Then Play On, Kiln House, Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, and Heroes Are Hard To Find were pretty far removed from the blues. There might have been an anecdotal song or two, if that, but those were not blues albums. “Sunny Side of Heaven,” “Sentimental Lady,” and “Spare Me A Little” were every bit the pop masterpieces as anything on 1975 album.

Over My Head was the perfect first radio single.
I don’t know if I would have picked it over SYLM or Blue Letter, TBH.

[Jondalar]

Peacekeeper was a real single and a good one.

[Macfan4life]

Are YOU kidding ME?

Fleetwood Mac stopped being a blues band back 1969 with Albatross. Then Play On, Kiln House, Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, and Heroes Are Hard To Find were pretty far removed from the blues. There might have been an anecdotal song or two, if that, but those were not blues albums. “Sunny Side of Heaven,” “Sentimental Lady,” and “Spare Me A Little” were every bit the pop masterpieces as anything on 1975 album.


I don’t know if I would have picked it over SYLM or Blue Letter, TBH.
I broke my rule to not respond to your posts because its like a dog chasing its tale. I never said The White album was a blues album nor 1975 Fleetwood Mac, a blues band. I said they transformed from a Blues Band.
I recall even in Micks first book exclaiming it was a no brainer which song would be the first single. I saw a Lindsey interview many years ago commenting it OMG it was Fleetwood Mac WITH hits. You can hear in Christine's singing in the song she has a blues influence.
You don't care for the song, and I am not that crazy about it either. That was NOT anyone's point. Christine has many bluesy singing and sounds on her entire catalog especially the albums you mention.

[SteveMacD]

I broke my rule to not respond to your posts because its like a dog chasing its tale.
Whatever. :rolleyes:

I never said The White album was a blues album nor 1975 Fleetwood Mac, a blues band.
I didn’t suggest you did.

I said they transformed from a Blues Band.
Implying that the arrival of Buckingham Nicks marked their transition away from the blues. I was saying they had already started moving away from the blues in 1969, and were not a blues band by 1970.

I recall even in Micks first book exclaiming it was a no brainer which song would be the first single.
I recall the opposite. I forget who they went to, but that guy was the one who thought it was a hit.

That was NOT anyone's point.
Including mine.

Christine has many bluesy singing and sounds on her entire catalog especially the albums you mention.
The blues will obviously always have some influence on whatever Mick, John, and Christine do musically, but “Spare Me A Little” has more in common with “Say You Love Me” than “Get Like You Used To Be.”

[jcalzaretta]

Steal Your Heart Away and Bleed to Love Her are great. Would not have done well on top 100 chart but would have on adult charts. Say You Will to me was Stevie was writing more like Christine. Not Stevie at all. I always wondered with proper marketing if Thrown Down could have done better given it was featured on Friends. Have to capitalize on that stuff.

[cbBen]

I always wondered with proper marketing if Thrown Down could have done better given it was featured on Friends. Have to capitalize on that stuff.

Absolutely.

"Say You Will" is a terrible choice. IMO, it shouldn't have even made the album. Just take the subject matter: a woman asking a man for one more chance, or at least some time to do the real convincing (maybe in the song's sequel?). It's the most tepid courtship imaginable, with the woman somehow both the pursuer and the weaker party.

Plus that line "at least give me time to change your mind" is just unwieldy and requires a bad meter to make it scan.

My problem with "Peacekeeper" is less pronounced, but concerns the subject matter, which is too impersonal and executed too cryptically for an anti-war song (and is also about as far from Fleetwood Mac's wheelhouse as one could imagine).

[lilyfee]

While most of us may like or think Straight Back is the best or one of the best songs on Mirage, its not going to released as a single.
A great example is Bella Donna. Quoting the man who created the album Jimmy Iovine. Bella Donna was a great album but no one was going to hear it because it had no single. Thus he brought SDMHA to the album. Same concept as Talk To Me.
Isn't it Midnight is the best or one of the best songs on Tango but it was not going to released as the first or fourth single.
You get the point, no?
Its not my standard but they pick the most commercial song possible. (The entire Tusk album was not commercial - that was the idea).

I agree with what you said about songs we would rather have as singles. But I disagree with the idea that those songs could not have been singles. Part of what made/makes FM interesting is that their work was so confessional and different! It is a shame that Straight Back - one of Stevie's most interesting songs ever IMHO - is buried on FM's least popular album. And Isn't It Midnight (along with Little Lies) is the catchiest track on Tango in the Night so that still bothers me too!

Say You Will is catchy but it would not make me want to buy an album. I think Everybody Finds Out and Smile At You (even though this version is not my favorite of this song) are exciting tracks. Tonally they follow the thread of scorned lovers in Fleetwood Mac songs and that story and authenticity makes you want to hear more. Plus, Stevie gets so into it vocally in Everybody Finds Out, yelling alongside the crescendo of the violins... It is an energy I do not think we have seen in a studio vocal from her since then. I think that would have appealed to anyone even remotely familiar with her famous Rhiannon performances, as well as new fans. It is a shame they never do this live!!

[Buster]

oh yeah, i forgot, Stevie needed to record solo album and release best of instead of working with the band, therefore postponing FM album for 5 years.
.

I hardly believe you forgot since you obsess over this stuff 24/7.

Yeah, horrible that Stevie finally found her voice and creativity again and wanted to record a solo album instead of recording with a “band” that had stopped being a band over a decade earlier. You want to blame someone, blame Christine who bailed after cashing in on the reunion hype. Stevie stayed with FM.

[jbrownsjr]

I hardly believe you forgot since you obsess over this stuff 24/7.

Yeah, horrible that Stevie finally found her voice and creativity again and wanted to record a solo album instead of recording with a “band” that had stopped being a band over a decade earlier. You want to blame someone, blame Christine who bailed after cashing in on the reunion hype. Stevie stayed with FM.

Cashing in? They did 4 brand new songs. Rebooted Silver Springs with beautiful piano intro, re-arranged Rhiannon with a grand piano intro as a duet w/ Stevie, Big Love and Go Insane were brought in solo, re-arranged Say You Love Me with a vocal arrangement and banjo, they had the USC Marching band for the concert special, and DVD, they actually put out a DVD... Christine and the band put a lot of work into that tour. And, she came out of retirement to do it. Also, she specifically told them this would be her last tour BEFORE THE TOUR STARTED

Blame Christine??? really??? For what? Giving the fans a great way to go out?

[TheWildHeart67]

I absolutely love SYW.
I loved it upon it's release, and still love it to this very day.
I think any song released as a first single would have struggled due to the rapidly changing music landscape of radio.
There simply wasn't a viable way to promote it.
MTV had drastic changes, barely playing music videos, and rock radio no longer was one genre. Most new rock songs got rotation on "alternative" stations and "Classic Rock" was regulated to a mostly oldies format.
All things considered, the album performed pretty well.

[button-lip]

I hardly believe you forgot since you obsess over this stuff 24/7.

Yeah, horrible that Stevie finally found her voice and creativity again and wanted to record a solo album instead of recording with a “band” that had stopped being a band over a decade earlier. You want to blame someone, blame Christine who bailed after cashing in on the reunion hype. Stevie stayed with FM.

She stayed more than we needed her to stay, honestly. :rolleyes:

But we all know Stevie can do no wrong. We owe her everything really. She's our muse, our inspiration, our Goddess. I don't know where FM would be without her, really. :laugh::laugh:

Please, Stevie left the band when she wanted to, just as the rest of its members! And we all know why. Too much of…. everything.

[HomerMcvie]

She stayed more than we needed her to stay, honestly. :rolleyes:

But we all know Stevie can do no wrong. We owe her everything really. She's our muse, our inspiration, our Goddess. I don't know where FM would be without her, really. :laugh::laugh:

Please, Stevie left the band when she wanted to, just as the rest of its members! And we all know why. Too much of…. everything.

There will always be Chiffonheads, to whom $he can do no wrong. That will never change.

At least we know what a dolt $he is.:xoxo:

[elle]

Yeah, horrible that Stevie finally found her voice and creativity again and wanted to record a solo album instead of recording with a “band” that had stopped being a band[over a decade earlier. You want to blame someone, blame Christine who bailed after cashing in on the reunion hype. Stevie stayed with FM.

:eek: you express a lot of disdain for our favorite band, Fleetwood Mac.

isn't that the definition of the band reunion - to get back together people who stopped being a band in the past? :shrug:

if somebody didn't care for the reunion, they should have said no. and if they didn't want to stay in the band after, they should have left. Christine did the right thing, she left. staying in the band one doesn't want to stay in and holding it back is not a positive. that is putting your own career above the band, once you used band's reunion to pull your career back up from the rock bottom it's been at that point.

[MikeInNV]

that is putting your own career above the band, once you used band's reunion to pull your career back up from the rock bottom it's been at that point.

You've made this little dig at Stevie multiple times. I guess it's lucky LB couldn't manage to put out any material between The Dance and SYW; otherwise he would be guilty of same. He did, however, tell the band not to come knocking for a while once SYW was over. Not sure what the difference is. FM hasn't been full-time since 1980, and you as much as anyone enjoy the breaks for solo work.

[TheWildHeart67]

So many people seem so unhappy on this board. Bickering back and forth about rock stars that are worth over $50 million each. :xoxo:

[elle]

You've made this little dig at Stevie multiple times. I guess it's lucky LB couldn't manage to put out any material between The Dance and SYW; otherwise he would be guilty of same. He did, however, tell the band not to come knocking for a while once SYW was over. Not sure what the difference is. FM hasn't been full-time since 1980, and you as much as anyone enjoy the breaks for solo work.

why would that be lucky? i also said multiple times - way more in fact! - that i wish he released the original Gift of Screws when it was done, back in 1998, as a solo masterpiece that it was, instead of waiting for FM and chopping it up across multiple FM and solo efforts.

i also said multiple times that he asked for that solo window between 2006 and 2008 because Stevie nixed another FM album in that period, which was his original wish and intention. so that's the difference. and i'm so tired of the same ole arguments, multiple times, yet here we are. again.

[SteveMacD]

i wish he released the original Gift of Screws when it was done, back in 1998, as a solo masterpiece that it was, instead of waiting for FM and chopping it up across multiple FM and solo efforts.

He didn’t wait for Fleetwood Mac. He likely recorded it with the others specifically so it could be released as Fleetwood Mac if need be. He took the advice to wait and see, and decided it was in his best interest to release it as part of a Fleetwood Mac album. I agree that he should have released it as a solo album in 1998, just as he should have released OOTC in early 1991, if not sooner.

[elle]

He didn’t wait for Fleetwood Mac. He likely recorded it with the others specifically so it could be released as Fleetwood Mac if need be. He took the advice to wait and see, and decided it was in his best interest to release it as part of a Fleetwood Mac album. I agree that he should have released it as a solo album in 1998, just as he should have released OOTC in early 1991, if not sooner.

i know that's your theory, but his work with FM members or Stevie is peppered all over his output, whether solo, or producing others such as Walter Egan, so i'm not sure whether that theory really holds.

the advice to wait was to do an FM reunion before releasing GOS, according to Rob Cavallo. the reunion event plus tour was already done and that advice was not applicable anymore in 1998. at that time he could have decided to release GOS stuff with FM or go solo. since SN went solo, with best of following by studio album from scratch instead of getting immediately into studio with FM, he should have not waited for her to return, or helped her try to get Vegas residency, or whatever else, but instead release GOS in 1998.

OOTC in 1991 was way late for it, he should have finished and released that album in late 80s, instead of waiting for grunge 9i0s to come around. but that's a whole another story.

i'm hoping that at 69 he has finally learned all these lessons and will put his output first. and no returning to time-wasting exercise that FM has been since 1998! :wavey:

[SteveMacD]

i know that's your theory, but his work with FM members or Stevie is peppered all over his output, whether solo, or producing others such as Walter Egan, so i'm not sure whether that theory really holds.
There was nobody else from Fleetwood Mac on Go Insane or OOTC. Look at the 1993 Virgin interview. Do you think THAT guy would have anything to do with the band if his masterpiece had been a commercial success?

The biggest issue in 1995 that affected all of them was Mo and Lenny being out at Warner. Albums tanking, leadership changes at the label, and the success of other bands reuniting forced their hands.
i'm hoping that at 69 he has finally learned all these lessons and will put his output first. and no returning to time-wasting exercise that FM has been since 1998! :wavey:
I agree, although he’s been his own worst enemy. The band can get some of the blame (although Fleetwood Mac usually greatly benefited him), but the gaps in his career have been self-induced. Eleven years between tours (Mirage to OOTC) and eleven years between studio albums (OOTC to SYW). Doesn’t matter how much of a genius he is if he’s not getting his name out there.

[dontlookdown]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Peacekeeper is a good song, but it was much better as a solo Lindsey demo before Say You Will.

And the title track is a one-note bland track with potential, but it should have never been a single.

Thrown Down would have been my pick - a solid Fleetwood Mac song with duo vocals that would have lived comfortably on Tusk.

I also think Everybody Finds Out could have landed them back in the top ten. It would have been completely unexpected, and a video with Lindsey and Stevie singing into the same mic would have helped to sell the album. Another lost opportunity. The last minute of that song is spectacular. It almost enters Gladys Knight and the Pips territory.

[secondhandchain]

Agree wholeheartedly.

Peacekeeper is a good song, but it was much better as a solo Lindsey demo before Say You Will.

And the title track is a one-note bland track with potential, but it should have never been a single.

Thrown Down would have been my pick - a solid Fleetwood Mac song with duo vocals that would have lived comfortably on Tusk.

I also think Everybody Finds Out could have landed them back in the top ten. It would have been completely unexpected, and a video with Lindsey and Stevie singing into the same mic would have helped to sell the album. Another lost opportunity. The last minute of that song is spectacular. It almost enters Gladys Knight and the Pips territory.

Say You will is like 3 notes in the WHOLE song. Horrible.

[HomerMcvie]

Say You will is like 3 notes in the WHOLE song. Horrible.

The worst vocal on any single they ever released. Imagine that old goat singing Gypsy. Oh wait....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBqB_k84Ms

[cbBen]

"Everybody Finds Out" would have been fantastic. Edgy and great.

That record exec who showered praise on "Say You Will" did himself, the label, and the band a disservice.

The Eagles reunion album sold a ton. This album could have sold a ton too, but that wasn't and isn't even my point.

From a purely artistic level, "Say You Will" and "Peacekeeper" were the blandest songs on the album. Lindsey may have been wrong to push for a double-disc, but he was right to resist going the safest possible route. He knew these two songs were not the right choices, but was no doubt outvoted. I bet that fight excised from Destiny Rules concerns this very issue.

[Mr Scarrott]

"Everybody Finds Out" would have been fantastic. Edgy and great.

I have to agree with this, it's got a fantastic bassline from John, some prominent drumming from Mick, and has, at least to my ears some kind of mixed 70s/80s veneer to it. It's a pity Stevie didn't write it, though.

I'm obviously in a minority here but I really like the SYW version of Smile at You. There's few Tango touches to it that might have struck a chord with a wider audience.

I'm also going to give a shout out to Say Goodbye , only partly because I enjoy murdering it on the guitar. It's Lindsey's most beautiful song on the album, notwithstanding that weird throat-clearing noise he makes somewhere near its start. Whilst it's maybe not an obvious choice for a single, more people need to have heard it. I can mentally imagine it on all sorts of soundtracks and adverts....

I'm with the majority of you over the single choices they did make. Say You Will is bland; Peacekeeper is a dirge. I've put together a 10 hour playlist of 150+ Mac songs from all eras, and neither of them make it onto it so that's a good indicator of my regard for them. The fact that the band couldn't be bothered to make proper videos for the songs, just live performances speaks volumes.

Still, taken in its entirety, I really like the album, warts and all.

[cbBen]

I have to agree with this, it's got a fantastic bassline from John, some prominent drumming from Mick, and has, at least to my ears some kind of mixed 70s/80s veneer to it. It's a pity Stevie didn't write it, though.

She co-wrote it.

I'm obviously in a minority here but I really like the SYW version of Smile at You. There's few Tango touches to it that might have struck a chord with a wider audience.

I'm with you. I love it, including all the bells and whistles.

I'm also going to give a shout out to Say Goodbye , only partly because I enjoy murdering it on the guitar. It's Lindsey's most beautiful song on the album, notwithstanding that weird throat-clearing noise he makes somewhere near its start. Whilst it's maybe not an obvious choice for a single, more people need to have heard it. I can mentally imagine it on all sorts of soundtracks and adverts....

Great song, but I think Lindsey sped it up too much. They should have just re-cut it in the fashion of the live performances.

I'm with the majority of you over the single choices they did make. Say You Will is bland; Peacekeeper is a dirge. I've put together a 10 hour playlist of 150+ Mac songs from all eras, and neither of them make it onto it so that's a good indicator of my regard for them. The fact that the band couldn't be bothered to make proper videos for the songs, just live performances speaks volumes.

I skip three songs on the album: "Say You Will," "Peacekeeper," and "Silver Girl." The problem, as I see it, is that when they had the pick of Stevie's back catalog, they could pick all great songs. But as soon as she walked in with those four new songs, only two of which were any good, they were stuck with two bad songs – because politically they couldn't tell her they weren't good enough. This is where having a producer from outside the group to say "no" (the single most important word for a record producer) would have helped.

Still, taken in its entirety, I really like the album, warts and all.

Me too. I think it's one notch (maybe two) below masterpiece level.

[Mr Scarrott]

Thanks for your comments ChBen

I don't think Stevie wrote the music for EFO, is what I meant to put .. I thought she just wrote the lyrics... will need to check the liner notes.

[cbBen]

Thanks for your comments ChBen

I don't think Stevie wrote the music for EFO, is what I meant to put .. I thought she just wrote the lyrics... will need to check the liner notes.

Correct: Stevie wrote the lyrics, Rick Nowels the music.

[Mr Scarrott]

Everybody Finds Out has always weirdly reminded me of Keep on Going from Mystery to Me. If anyone else thinks the same, let me know. If not, I'm obviously losing the plot...

[mitzo]

The worst vocal on any single they ever released. Imagine that old goat singing Gypsy. Oh wait....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGBqB_k84Ms

Have to agree about the vocals on SYW, Stevie is really digging into her lowest register throughout and the song therefore has no lightness at all, a friendly and pleasant pop tune becomes a scary sped-up hymn of some sort. If only Christine could have been on the track or they had raised it a note or two or, I don't know. I like the song itself, but Stevie did not do it justice with a vocal.

[SteveMacD]

The worst vocal on any single they ever released.

Worse than Paper Doll???

[bwboy]

From a purely artistic level, "Say You Will" and "Peacekeeper" were the blandest songs on the album. Lindsey may have been wrong to push for a double-disc, but he was right to resist going the safest possible route. He knew these two songs were not the right choices, but was no doubt outvoted. I bet that fight excised from Destiny Rules concerns this very issue.

Interestingly enough, I love Peacekeeper and Say You Will, and strongly dislike Everybody Finds Out.

[HomerMcvie]

Worse than Paper Doll???

I far prefer Paper Doll.

[HomerMcvie]

Have to agree about the vocals on SYW, Stevie is really digging into her lowest register throughout and the song therefore has no lightness at all, a friendly and pleasant pop tune becomes a scary sped-up hymn of some sort. If only Christine could have been on the track or they had raised it a note or two or, I don't know. I like the song itself, but Stevie did not do it justice with a vocal.

Christine was ALWAYS the balance that made them great. Even if she was the least popular singer(actually, that might have been Lindsey) that they had. She was the pop singer that made it radio friendly. That's why she had the most hits. SHE MADE THEM RADIO FRIENDLY.

[sue]

Just perusing the various threads about Say you will......when good old Ken Bruce plays ...Peacemaker..., he does play it quite often !!

Personally I love SYW, took me ages to get into it, and still find new stuff now.
My favourite track, Steal your heart away....and Illume.

[GavinBrown]

Thrown Down (wall of sound version) was a HIT just WAITING to happen. I like the album Version as well, but this would have been GOLDEN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ySQvnULZA

[jbrownsjr]

Worse than Paper Doll???

Nothing is worse than Paper Doll

[Mr Scarrott]

Nothing is worse than Paper Doll

Listening to nothing is better than listening to Paper Doll.

[jbrownsjr]

Listening to nothing is better than listening to Paper Doll.

I'd rather listen to Mrs. Scarrott!! for real!!!

oh so bare. oh so bare..

[He's So Unusual]

I've never liked Say You Will (the song). It's far too cutesy for my liking. It sounds like something Christine should have written and sung. I HATE the kids singing at the end.

Destiny Rules should have been the lead single.

[button-lip]

I've never liked Say You Will (the song). It's far too cutesy for my liking. It sounds like something Christine should have written and sung. I HATE the kids singing at the end.

Destiny Rules should have been the lead single.

Hating Stevie's niece..... that's not good. If only Stevie knew....

[HomerMcvie]

Hating Stevie's niece..... that's not good. If only Stevie knew....

$he'd have him trampled by a herd of her own $pecies.


I too HATE the kids on the end of the song. Stupid decision to put them on there.

[lilyfee]

I've never liked Say You Will (the song). It's far too cutesy for my liking. It sounds like something Christine should have written and sung. I HATE the kids singing at the end.

Destiny Rules should have been the lead single.

I at least understand the creative decision to have the kids sing... I think it is meant to hark back to Stevie and Lindsey meeting as kids. But it is such a weird thing to hear on a Fleetwood Mac song. And it feels super gimmicky on a song that needs something more than kids singing (better writing? better performance? both?) to make it seem special.

[David]

Thrown Down (wall of sound version) was a HIT just WAITING to happen. I like the album Version as well, but this would have been GOLDEN!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ySQvnULZA

Love it. But why do the comments call it a Shangri La recording? It sounds like Fleetwood Mac to me: John's bass, Lindsey's guitar and vocals, Mick's drumming, etc.

[Straightback]

I've never liked Say You Will (the song). It's far too cutesy for my liking. It sounds like something Christine should have written and sung. I HATE the kids singing at the end.

Destiny Rules should have been the lead single.


I don't know what I hate more, the song Say You Will, or that stupid choreography Stevie did during the chorus. The first time I saw it when I saw FM during the tour I wanted to crawl onstage and physically restrain her from doing that lasso movement over her head.

I also really like Destiny Rules. The only thing that keeps me from loving it is that the delivery is SOOOOOOO nasal. Like more nasal that usual.

[bombaysaffires]

Tusk the single wasn't friendly to radio, either. There was no precedent on radio in 1979 for that.

In 2003, Fleetwood should have released Come, Illume, or Red Rover as the lead single. The idea should have been to stand out, not to blend in. The only chance for a single from that band to have done anything in 2003 would have been to get listeners to say, "What the feck is that?"

That is indeed what everyone said when Tusk was first played on the radio. Say You Will the single—the sweet little sing-along that was the musical equivalent of a hot cocoa with whipped cream—meant nothing to nobody in 2003, and got sh|tcanned off the radio ere five minutes had passed.

ha. stevie and her team would have fought that -- especially Come.

[cbBen]

"Come" way too vulgar, plus as with "Red Rover" Stevie's not on it.

"Destiny Rules" was the obvious choice for both single and title track. "Everybody Finds Out" would also have been a great choice.

"Say You Will" is one of the worst songs on the album. The lyrics are awful. A woman pleading with a man for at least some more time to change his mind? Pretty tepid stuff. Unlike the others who have weighed in on the matter, however, I do like the kids singing on it.