Almost a year later....thoughts of the new band.

[BLY]

Ok, after almost a year after this new version of my all time favorite band I still feel the same as I did when this was announced. If this band would have had some new music to tour behind I would have felt 100% different. Neil Finn and Crowded House is in my top 5 of all time favorites. I think the harmonies of these three voices could have been amazing (in the studio) I still don’t plan on seeing them live when they come to my area next year. I have nothing but great memories of all their shows I’ve seen. Lindsey’s solo tour this year gave me my MAC ATTACK for 2018.

[secret love]

Ok, after almost a year after this new version of my all time favorite band I still feel the same as I did when this was announced. If this band would have had some new music to tour behind I would have felt 100% different. Neil Finn and Crowded House is in my top 5 of all time favorites. I think the harmonies of these three voices could have been amazing (in the studio) I still don’t plan on seeing them live when they come to my area next year. I have nothing but great memories of all their shows I’ve seen. Lindsey’s solo tour this year gave me my MAC ATTACK for 2018.

MAC ATTACK BY FLEETWOOD MAC
1. Hunger
2. My Mother's Rings
3. I Got You (Stevie and Neil vocal)
4. Don't Dream it's Over (Stevie and Neil vocal)
5. Ride This Road
6. All Over Again (Duet version)
7. Songbird (featuring special guest Lindsey Buckingham)
8. Farmer's Daughter
9. City of Hope
10. Grandfather Song
11. It Takes Time (Full band version)

[jwd]

Ok, after almost a year after this new version of my all time favorite band I still feel the same as I did when this was announced. If this band would have had some new music to tour behind I would have felt 100% different. Neil Finn and Crowded House is in my top 5 of all time favorites. I think the harmonies of these three voices could have been amazing (in the studio) I still don’t plan on seeing them live when they come to my area next year. I have nothing but great memories of all their shows I’ve seen. Lindsey’s solo tour this year gave me my MAC ATTACK for 2018.

I, like Lindsey, was quite visceral at first. Now, I like Lindsey, am looking to the future, not the past. I find myself able to listen to the past FM records and even Stevie Nicks solo material, enjoying it for what it is. But I'm a bigger Lindsey fan now and am anticipating the new music coming from him and feeling blase about the current nostalgia Mac.

[David]

If this band would have had some new music to tour behind I would have felt 100% different.I feel somewhat along these lines. I doubt I'd have considered a new album an instant classic or a masterpiece. But I certainly would have welcomed it more than a long arena tour built around The Chain, Rhiannon, Dreams, Gold Dust Woman, Don't Stop, and so on. I'm just not interested in that stuff onstage anymore. I've been listening to it for 41 or 42 years in concert, and I've been through hundreds of audio tapes and video tapes listening to yet more performances of the same songs. I'm done. If there's new studio work, I'll certainly check it out on Spotify, as I do with LB's and SN's solo albums and last year's McVie-Buckingham CD. But this continual rehash of seventies hits serving as the core of every concert tour has lost all appeal to me—especially given the way that these songs are performed night after night. (You'd think that at least once in forty years of Dreams live, the band would have tried it in a different way—for example, acoustically or with different choral harmonies cooked up.)

I haven't seen Fleetwood Mac play in person since 2003—I can't be bothered. If the current grouping is going to continue touring its big circus for years to come, I'll let others enjoy it but I'll find other live events to attend.

[DownOnRodeo]

I feel somewhat along these lines. I doubt I'd have considered a new album an instant classic or a masterpiece. But I certainly would have welcomed it more than a long arena tour built around The Chain, Rhiannon, Dreams, Gold Dust Woman, Don't Stop, and so on. I'm just not interested in that stuff onstage anymore. I've been listening to it for 41 or 42 years in concert, and I've been through hundreds of audio tapes and video tapes listening to yet more performances of the same songs. I'm done. If there's new studio work, I'll certainly check it out on Spotify, as I do with LB's and SN's solo albums and last year's McVie-Buckingham CD. But this continual rehash of seventies hits serving as the core of every concert tour has lost all appeal to me—especially given the way that these songs are performed night after night. (You'd think that at least once in forty years of Dreams live, the band would have tried it in a different way—for example, acoustically or with different choral harmonies cooked up.)

I haven't seen Fleetwood Mac play in person since 2003—I can't be bothered. If the current grouping is going to continue touring its big circus for years to come, I'll let others enjoy it but I'll find other live events to attend.

David! You seem to be of the mistaken notion that the band's injunction Don't Stop is a mere suggestion! It is an imperative order, and must be obeyed.

[cbBen]

this continual rehash of seventies hits serving as the core of every concert tour has lost all appeal to me—especially given the way that these songs are performed night after night. (You'd think that at least once in forty years of Dreams live, the band would have tried it in a different way—for example, acoustically or with different choral harmonies cooked up.)

Here's Stevie and Lindsey doing "Gypsy" acoustically at a benefit concert:
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/3dbdcc1dc33e5b2dbf7f1112f594a2d820181222155231/cff0a6

[Nicks Fan]

I agree completely. If there had been a legit reason to fire him and they had new music to play I would have been excited. The set list really isn't that different from previous tours. Ever tour since 2003 has had at least a handful of songs either never performed live or not performed in some time while still keeping the same 8-12 songs each show (Dreams, Rhiannon, BL, NGBA, Gypsy,ISA, GDW,WT, CHAIN GYOW DS ETC). It doesn't make sense to pay big money to hear mostly the same old same old.

[Nicks Fan]

Plus if you see Lindsey or SN solo allot of those FM songs are in the set list so it gets boring hearing those same songs year after year.

[BLY]

Go see Lindsey’s latest tour for a fresh set of songs with some that have never been played live before. My favorite tour of his to date.

[Nicks Fan]

I did see his solo show in Kitchener and loved it.

[sleepless child]

Almost a year later, it's still weird to me. I didn't go to the show, but I did watch online. They are professionals and have been doing this for years, so yes it was a good show, especially at the beginning with the setlist,

but it still isn't the same without Lindsey, they will probably not do an album and I doubt if this group tours together again.

[sleepless child]

A lot of people that went to the shows said they looked like they were having a lot of fun and how relaxed it was etc....

But when I saw the group several times during the Billy/Rick years it looked like they were having a lot of fun onstage and they did record a pretty good album Behind the Mask, but Christine and Stevie both left and Christine said it just wasn't the same without Lindsey.

[SteveMacD]

A lot of people that went to the shows said they looked like they were having a lot of fun and how relaxed it was etc....

But when I saw the group several times during the Billy/Rick years it looked like they were having a lot of fun onstage and they did record a pretty good album Behind the Mask, but Christine and Stevie both left and Christine said it just wasn't the same without Lindsey.

Not exactly the same equation, though. Billy and Rick were a far cry from Neil and Mike.

[blinker12]

I saw them in 2003, too, for Say You Will. I wasn’t electrified, but at least they were supporting some new material. Then at the invitation of friends I saw them in 2013. This time I felt the show was sad. “Sad Angel,” in fact, was the highlight. It was the only moment where there was something new or different to someone who’d been following the band for any length of time.

I haven’t felt any interest in seeing them since, not even when Christine rejoined. To watch my favorite band of all time simply treading water - in spite of lineup changes - makes me too sad. The footage I’ve seen of the current tour has given me no second thoughts.

I have seen and enjoyed Nicks solo and Buckingham-McVie, though.

[BLY]

I saw them in 2003, too, for Say You Will. I wasn’t electrified, but at least they were supporting some new material. Then at the invitation of friends I saw them in 2013. This time I felt the show was sad. “Sad Angel,” in fact, was the highlight. It was the only moment where there was something new or different to someone who’d been following the band for any length of time.

I haven’t felt any interest in seeing them since, not even when Christine rejoined. To watch my favorite band of all time simply treading water - in spite of lineup changes - makes me too sad. The footage I’ve seen of the current tour has given me no second thoughts.

I have seen and enjoyed Nicks solo and Buckingham-McVie, though.


Exactly the way I feel. Seeing the Buckingham/McVie show last year with them performing 8 of the 10 new songs said it all.......it’s just a shame Mick and John weren’t with them. I’m sure they would have loved to have done that tour.

[mitzo]

I have been apathetic about FM for ages now, no new material makes them a bit of a bore now. Sick of living in the early 80's. So the new lineup is no more or less ho-hum than the Lindsey lineup. And yes, it is Stevie's fault there has been no new material.

[On Ice]

I have been apathetic about FM for ages now, no new material makes them a bit of a bore now. Sick of living in the early 80's. So the new lineup is no more or less ho-hum than the Lindsey lineup. And yes, it is Stevie's fault there has been no new material.

I agree, this has made it difficult for me to get excited about the new line up- no new music makes it a cash grab and I'm not paying a grand for good seats and travel out of town to see this. Not to say though that Neil Finn doesn't have a great voice- he does and Mike Campbell is an awesome guitarist- he is. But I agree with Lindsey at this point in their career it makes no sense whatsoever and is essentially a cover band. The Tom Petty tribute also irks me to hell- a quick nod would've sufficed. Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch were far more deserving and I don't care if most of the audience don't know those two incredibly talented treasures- they were far more deserving at a Fleetwood Mac concert . Furthermore to drop the only Welch song was unforgivable. Sorry guys, I'm sitting this one out my enthusiasm has dwindled with no new fresh music to offer, while I loved the 80's, it's now almost 2019, time to move on (as Tom would say). If he were alive he'd be telling Stevie to get over herself and record some new music.

[David]

Not exactly the same equation, though. Billy and Rick were a far cry from Neil and Mike.But why is that putative difference important if they're all just playing Dreams and Rhiannon straight night after night? Do you not see what some people in this thread are driving at?

Mike Campbell has artistic stature because of his work with the Heartbreakers, not because of his work this past year with Fleetwood Mac. As far as the latter goes, he's essentially just playing Rhiannon and Don't Stop again and again . . . just like Vito was roped into doing. The entire band is resting on its achievements and style of the seventies. So far, it has practically nothing new to say. Maybe that's just what Lindsey meant when he talked about perspective.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=David;1246917]But why is that putative difference important if they're all just playing Dreams and Rhiannon straight night after night? Do you not see what some people in this thread are driving at?

Mike Campbell has artistic stature because of his work with the Heartbreakers, not because of his work this past year with Fleetwood Mac. As far as the latter goes, he's essentially just playing Rhiannon and Don't Stop again and again . . . just like Vito was roped into doing. The entire band is resting on its achievements and style of the seventies. So far, it has practically nothing new to say. Maybe that's just what Lindsey meant when he talked about perspective.[/QU

I agree David. It’s completely true. I think the stint with Mick, Stevie, John and Christine is merely a footnote for Neil and Mike. The bigger story is why they got there, not necessarily what they did once they were there (assuming they continue to not deliver new music....I don’t think they will. I agree with you as well on LBs comments, something to the effect he doesn’t miss playing these songs, but is hurt for the fans and the legacy
Very well said David, thank you

[bwboy]

But why is that putative difference important if they're all just playing Dreams and Rhiannon straight night after night? Do you not see what some people in this thread are driving at?

Mike Campbell has artistic stature because of his work with the Heartbreakers, not because of his work this past year with Fleetwood Mac. As far as the latter goes, he's essentially just playing Rhiannon and Don't Stop again and again . . . just like Vito was roped into doing. The entire band is resting on its achievements and style of the seventies.

If Lindsey hadn't been fired, he would be the one playing Dreams and Rhiannon and Don't Stop night after night. If Lindsey was still in FM, the band would still be resting on its achievements and style of the seventies, right? Or does that not apply to the band if Lindsey is with them?

If Lindsey was in FM, it would still be a cash grab tour. As opposed to a tour where they play 4 new songs, which then somehow wouldn't be a cash grab tour :shrug: I really don't get it- the same people who hate FM now talk about how this tour is 'just' a cash grab tour, like somehow it wouldn't have been if Lindsey were still in the band. Look, he wanted to record new material, but he was more than happy to go on the road with FM and sing the same hits they've been doing for 40+years. We know this because he sued them for the money he would have gotten from the tour. Despite the fact that they wouldn't record new material, he WANTED to tour with them, singing the same songs he's been doing for 40+years- I felt that beared repeating became some people seem to gloss over that point completely.

I love this tour, and if Lindsey had still been with them, I would have hoped they still played most of the songs they did. No Don't Dream It's Over or Free Falling maybe, even though I loved those songs as performed by them, but more of Lindsey's songs would have been great. All Over Again, Tell Me All the Things, Isn't It Midnight, Black Magic Woman, all fantastic.

[David]

If Lindsey hadn't been fired, he would be the one playing Dreams and Rhiannon and Don't Stop night after night.Totally true. This isn't a Lindsey issue—other than his bona fide attempt to get the band to record something new.

If Lindsey was still in FM, the band would still be resting on its achievements and style of the seventies, right? Or does that not apply to the band if Lindsey is with them? Of course it applies. The band has been retreading its past in concert for a couple of decades, and all sorts of people have been in and out of the band, including Lindsey, Stevie, Christine, Rick, Billy, Dave, Bekka, Mike, and Neil. They've ALL done exactly the same thing. I sometimes think they do what they do because they play big venues and court huge numbers of customers that extend well beyond the fans who are intimately acquainted with their work. But I saw them in 1994 at a little dinner club in Central California—couldn't have been more than 80 people in the crowd—and damned if they still didn't build their entire set on their seventies concert set.

If Lindsey was in FM, it would still be a cash grab tour. No one, I hope, is saying otherwise. If they are, they're wrong. That's how I interpret Lindsey's "big machine" metaphor.

Look, he wanted to record new material, but he was more than happy to go on the road with FM and sing the same hits they've been doing for 40+years.Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Since 2003, there have been three Fleetwood Mac tours with Lindsey. I've skipped them all because I no longer want to hear this aging and musically deteriorating group of people play Gold Dust Woman and Go Your Own Way. Am I explaining myself adequately here?

I love this tour, and if Lindsey had still been with them, I would have hoped they still played most of the songs they did. No Don't Dream It's Over or Free Falling maybe, even though I loved those songs as performed by them, but more of Lindsey's songs would have been great. All Over Again, Tell Me All the Things, Isn't It Midnight, Black Magic Woman, all fantastic.When tickets go on sale, some of us buy and some of us pass. I'm explaining why I pass. The fact that the 2018 band has thrown in some old work that hasn't been heard in awhile doesn't disprove the fact that the band's set is built around its seventies heyday. It's not my thing anymore. Quite frankly, I can't understand why others who have been to as many Fleetwood Mac concerts as I have would still be interested in them as a concert attraction. Is it a habit, like an addiction? A tic? An autonomic response? What keeps people going back year after year to hear Go Your Own Way sung the same way every year (barring the deterioration that age and boredom generate)—especially in this age of immediately available YouTube videos? Seeing Fleetwood Mac every year is worse than watching the same movie every year because Fleetwood Mac costs hundreds of dollars. I'm fascinated by what keeps people going to see them—the same people who have seen them thirty times since 1977. I guess they're enjoying themselves and enjoying an ever more boring string of Rhiannons, but it puzzles me. Maybe they turn to other bands for fresh, new work, and Fleetwood Mac is just an arthritic walk through an old petrifacted scrapbook for them.

I'd love to see a Fleetwood Mac committed enough to reconceptualize itself the way that it did in 1979—two short years after its mass-market triumph.

[bwboy]

I appreciate your response, David. I love it when we can share our thoughts about the band in a reasonable manner. Like you, I would really love a concert with deep cuts, but mainstream audiences want the hits, so that's what we're stuck with.

[Nicks Fan]

What bugs me though is Stevie made the comment that someone didn't want to play the pre 75 material yet between 87-97 all the did perform from the pre 75 era was a total of 4 Peter Green songs between 3 tours. If they cared about the previous lineups then why did they ignore Bob Welch, Danny Kirwan, Jeremy Spencer.

I get that casual fans want the hits but in my opinion they could easily switch it up night to night so that some nights you get Gold Dust Woman and Rhiannon and others you get Dreams and Landslide for example. There is no reason why they couldn't do 10 hits and 10-12 deep cuts if the set list was properly sequenced.

I think the reason Stevie doesn't want to record new material has little to nothing to do with Lindsey and his behavior but more to do with the fact that she has no new music to offer and would have likely given some old demos.

Lindsey has been very creative lately and some of his recent music is very good.

If this current lineup does make new music it will only serve as a big f you from SN to Lindsey.

I sat out this tour because I wasn't paying 700 dollars to hear new guys play hits I have heard before as well as cover songs from the new guys.

I know allot of bands play covers but the difference is that artists like Bruce Springsteen, The Rolling Stones etc do play enough deep cuts and or change up the set list that hearing some cover songs isn't a big deal vs FM who rarely changes up the set list on a nightly basis and or play a ton of rare cuts. For them to do cover songs at this point in time when they have more then enough material of their own to play is stupid.

[blinker12]

lQuite frankly, I can't understand why others who have been to as many Fleetwood Mac concerts as I have would still be interested in them as a concert attraction. Is it a habit, like an addiction? A tic? An autonomic response? What keeps people going back year after year to hear Go Your Own Way sung the same way every year (barring the deterioration that age and boredom generate)—especially in this age of immediately available YouTube videos? Seeing Fleetwood Mac every year is worse than watching the same movie every year because Fleetwood Mac costs hundreds of dollars. I'm fascinated by what keeps people going to see them—the same people who have seen them thirty times since 1977. I guess they're enjoying themselves and enjoying an ever more boring string of Rhiannons, but it puzzles me.

I can’t figure this out, either. Every time they come through town and sell out the arena, I wonder: ‘If I, a super fan, can’t drum up any interest to see this show, how in the heck are they selling out arenas?’ The only thing I can figure out is that they’re drawing not fans, but members of the general public who want to be able to say they’ve seen the famous Fleetwood Mac in their lives. Kinda the same reason why places such as Prague or Venice are now thronged with tourists year-round. It’s the bucket list factor.

[Nicks Fan]

I think the reason they sell well to this day is a few factors. 1) People who have never seen them want to cross them off of their bucket list 2) When a classic rock band comes to town people will likely go just because it is a night out and maybe they haven't seen them live in a while 3) Rabid fans of SN or the band as a whole simply have to be there no matter what. Those types will defend the set list and the tours with such passion because they really like the band and or a certain member. I don't get it either why any die hard fan can be excited about a tour that has so many songs they have been performed to the death. I am a die hard fan and I don't care for the new band or the tour. I have heard most of these songs so many times it has gotten boring.

On social media though lots of people say the band sounds fresh etc but I don't see anyone can say that and actually believe it. Playing mostly the same old tired songs yet again does not make them fresh just because you have new members.

[bwboy]

All those reasons could be factors. The friends I went with are casual fans, and they knew Lindsey wasn't with FM anymore. I didn't actually ask them why they wanted to see FM, but both knew Stevie and Christine were in the band, and the impression I got was that was enough for them. They loved the concert just as much as I did. One thought Stevie sounded incredible, the other friend thought Christine sounded incredible. Both said they liked Neil's singing. Neither one said much about John or Mike, and both liked Mick's drum solo. On the floor, everyone was on their feet the entire concert, with the exception of maybe 2 songs and Mick's drum solo.

[bwboy]

I think the reason they sell well to this day is a few factors. 1) People who have never seen them want to cross them off of their bucket list 2) When a classic rock band comes to town people will likely go just because it is a night out and maybe they haven't seen them live in a while 3) Rabid fans of SN or the band as a whole simply have to be there no matter what. Those types will defend the set list and the tours with such passion because they really like the band and or a certain member.

On social media though lots of people say the band sounds fresh etc but I don't see anyone can say that and actually believe it. Playing mostly the same old tired songs yet again does not make them fresh just because you have new members.

I used to consider myself a die hard fan until I joined the Ledge- now I think I must just be a casual fan, because I don't know the names of all the family members of Stevie, Lindsey, etc. I've attended 5 FM shows in my life- BTM, Dance, SYW, Hits, and this one, and I went because I was curious how they would sound and because I thought the set list sounded promising, and I was not disappointed. Best FM show I've ever been to. I don't go to every FM tour, I purposely skipped Shake the Cage, Time, the EP, and On With the Show, so I don't have to see every FM tour.

You can believe me when I say they sounded fresh, because in my opinion they did. They sounded tight and fantastic, especially musically. Vocally, Christine not so much, but I didn't care. Seeing them perform songs I'd never seen them perform before was fantastic, and they were clearly inspired by the new members and the set list.

I am not somebody who would say the concert was good if I didn't like it. And I loved it! I would have seen them again in a heartbeat, and I've never had the desire to see a show twice in one tour before. Not even FM.

[Nicks Fan]

My point was that they are playing numerous songs they have played before on many tours so I don't get how that is considered fresh. They are playing the songs very much in the same way they always did. No real different arrangements etc. They didn't in my opinion change up the set enough. Opening up with The Chain yet again??? Dreams in my opinion has been performed the same way for decades and pretty much sounds stale. It should be retired. I also think they should have dropped some of the other standards (World Turning, GDW, SHN etc) for some other songs. Wish You Here, Why, That's Alright , Angel, Think About Me, Brown Eyes, Over and Over would have been great additions. A handful of new songs or covers built around the same core songs is not very adventurous. But to each their own. If you enjoyed the show I am glad you did. For me I couldn't support what they did to Lindsey and would have felt the same way no matter who they had fired. As well as paying top dollar for a majority of songs I have heard more then enough times. I have seen them 7 times from 2003 tour to the 2014 tour not missing one of those tours. Each of those tours had something I liked. If they simply had to tour this year then they should have changed up the show much more then they did and make it clear that they were going to really change things up for this tour. They could have still played some well known songs and deep cuts with a show that would have had a nice balance between the familiar and the more obscure tunes.

[David]

My point was that they are playing numerous songs they have played before on many tours so I don't get how that is considered fresh. They are playing the songs very much in the same way they always did. No real different arrangements etc. They didn't in my opinion change up the set enough. Opening up with The Chain yet again??? Dreams in my opinion has been performed the same way for decades and pretty much sounds stale. It should be retired. I also think they should have dropped some of the other standards (World Turning, GDW, SHN etc) for some other songs. Wish You Here, Why, That's Alright , Angel, Think About Me, Brown Eyes, Over and Over would have been great additions. A handful of new songs or covers built around the same core songs is not very adventurous. The band's in sort of a pickle at this stage. They are prisoners of their big-budget tours, which have to fill cavernous arenas in order to recoup costs and deliver expected payouts. In terms of your show, you can't move on to a new stage when you have to attract 15,000 customers every night. These are decisions the band makes, a cycle of big money. I have nothing against big money (in fact, I'd rather enjoy it), but I understand that it does lock you in. The way Fleetwood Mac is "set up" ever since its 1997 reunion, it must play big halls and sell tens of thousands of tickets. In order to do that, it must play Dreams and what-all. A set and a style that are recognizable by the widest number of customers is the locking mechanism. I was thinking about the first time I saw Springsteen, back on the Darkness on the Edge of Town tour in 1978. So I tracked down some interesting info on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkness_Tour). It was a rather chaotic but refreshing mix of arenas (like the Inglewood Forum, 13,000), auditoriums (like the San Antonio Memorial, 5,000), and theaters (San Jose Performing Arts, 2,500). Springsteen is an excellent example of a superstar whose tours these days can accurately be said to follow no particular historical pattern. Fleetwood Mac, with its body of work from 1967 to the present, could if it wanted to dispense with its own historical patterns and create something really new for every tour, but it chooses not to, and I call it a shame.

I'm talking about more than just a set list, by the way. I'm talking about an entire approach to entertainment. Lindsey's first solo tour was a great example of true newness: He and his band orchestrated or reorchestrated a whole show in an intricately detailed and precise way, solving any number of aesthetic problems along the way (and creating a few others). His guitar "army" had to figure out exactly what to do, when to do it, and how to do it, and everything was as precisely planned as the assembling of a model. Stevie's first solo tour, which I saw in Beverly Hills, was also truly new—the show was inextricably tied to Bella Donna, not to Fleetwood Mac. Imagine if her subsequent tours had displayed the same care and intelligence for the "moment," the new album!

At the other end of the spectrum, Fleetwood Mac this year is doing what? Backdrop videos of galloping horses and breaching whales? Where's the aesthetic intelligence in that? It isn't worth a damn.

I have seen them 7 times from 2003 tour to the 2014 tour not missing one of those tours. Each of those tours had something I liked. If they simply had to tour this year then they should have changed up the show much more then they did and make it clear that they were going to really change things up for this tour. They could have still played some well known songs and deep cuts with a show that would have had a nice balance between the familiar and the more obscure tunes. Hiring two big names would have been a perfect opportunity to create some new traditions and make some waves, but instead the organization opted to go back out on the road with a big, expensive circus and all its old traditions intact. Pauline Kael once said that a "classic" is usually just a stunted perennial.

[lovethemac1]

My point was that they are playing numerous songs they have played before on many tours so I don't get how that is considered fresh. They are playing the songs very much in the same way they always did. No real different arrangements etc. They didn't in my opinion change up the set enough. Opening up with The Chain yet again??? Dreams in my opinion has been performed the same way for decades and pretty much sounds stale. It should be retired. I also think they should have dropped some of the other standards (World Turning, GDW, SHN etc) for some other songs. Wish You Here, Why, That's Alright , Angel, Think About Me, Brown Eyes, Over and Over would have been great additions. A handful of new songs or covers built around the same core songs is not very adventurous. But to each their own. If you enjoyed the show I am glad you did. For me I couldn't support what they did to Lindsey and would have felt the same way no matter who they had fired. As well as paying top dollar for a majority of songs I have heard more then enough times. I have seen them 7 times from 2003 tour to the 2014 tour not missing one of those tours. Each of those tours had something I liked. If they simply had to tour this year then they should have changed up the show much more then they did and make it clear that they were going to really change things up for this tour. They could have still played some well known songs and deep cuts with a show that would have had a nice balance between the familiar and the more obscure tunes.

I feel the same way you do NicksFan.

I'm finding it interesting that the show in my city, for April, is only 1/4 to 1/3 sold. And they've been for sale for weeks now.

Any other tour, they have sold out in a few days, with almost no seats available after a week.

They send the announcement about tickets through on Facebook feed about once an hour. They are NOT in the same boat they were before Lindsey was fired. If I want to hear the same old songs, I definitely want to hear Lindsey as part of them.

[Macfan4life]

I suppose what saddens me about this tour is the retreat from the deep tracks. Its an oxymoron to accuse the Mac of a cash grab tour and never changing their setlist only to have 4 incredible deep tracks cut from the set because of the dead stares from the audience. They are trapped in their own past and cant even do a concert without making Rumours their centerpiece with or without Lindsey. Those songs are what the masses buy the tickets for. For the love of God, they are performing Second Hand News and Go Your Own Way without him.
Other artists put their craft above the masses. They may not want to do this but see way too many dollar signs to do anything other than the same set for 20 years.

[secondhandchain]

If Lindsey hadn't been fired, he would be the one playing Dreams and Rhiannon and Don't Stop night after night. If Lindsey was still in FM, the band would still be resting on its achievements and style of the seventies, right? Or does that not apply to the band if Lindsey is with them?

If Lindsey was in FM, it would still be a cash grab tour. As opposed to a tour where they play 4 new songs, which then somehow wouldn't be a cash grab tour :shrug: I really don't get it- the same people who hate FM now talk about how this tour is 'just' a cash grab tour, like somehow it wouldn't have been if Lindsey were still in the band. Look, he wanted to record new material, but he was more than happy to go on the road with FM and sing the same hits they've been doing for 40+years. We know this because he sued them for the money he would have gotten from the tour. Despite the fact that they wouldn't record new material, he WANTED to tour with them, singing the same songs he's been doing for 40+years- I felt that beared repeating became some people seem to gloss over that point completely.

I love this tour, and if Lindsey had still been with them, I would have hoped they still played most of the songs they did. No Don't Dream It's Over or Free Falling maybe, even though I loved those songs as performed by them, but more of Lindsey's songs would have been great. All Over Again, Tell Me All the Things, Isn't It Midnight, Black Magic Woman, all fantastic.

You forgot to mention if it were UP TO LINDSEY, their would be NEW MUSIC.

[dontlookdown]

I went to one of the Forum shows in December and thought they were great.
The energy level was something I haven't seen in them since the early 80's.
Stevie was a powerhouse, Mick and John and Mike were spectacular. Neil was really good.

But something was clearly missing for me -- the unique sound that makes Fleetwood Mac different from every other band. Lindsey's tone and heft and harmony just isn't replaceable.

I'm glad I went, but that was it for me. Won't be seeing them again w/o Lindsey Buckingham.

On a lighter / brighter note, I'm really looking forward to seeing Lindsey on the 2nd leg of his tour. It's really his playing that has made me a lifelong FM fan.

[Dragon]

My thoughts of the new band are limited to being a touring act with nothing new to perform. That thought can change if the band chooses to record.

[SteveMacD]

My thoughts of the new band are limited to being a touring act with nothing new to perform. That thought can change if the band chooses to record.

With the tour going to New Zealand, I wonder if they’ll stop by Neil’s studio. With everyone having fresh chops, it seems like that would be a great time to record.

[aleuzzi]

The new band is embarrassing. That's my thought.

No new music (though Mick led with the promise that new songs--"calling cards"--were forthcoming). An increasingly tired setlist. Long speeches and Tom Petty tributes. Crowded House features.

Yuck.

Others might disagree but none of what's happening now with the band will have any impact on any listener beyond this tour. It's simply not real. We can pretend there's a future here but unless new music comes in the form of a long-player album, I'm not seeing it.

[SteveMacD]

Long speeches and Tom Petty tributes. Crowded House features.
I actually found the speeches to be significantly shorter than the past few FM related tours I’ve seen. Lindsey IMO gets too carried away with psychobabble, and that’s definitely something I didn’t miss. To be fair to Lindsey, he seems to have toned that down a bit.

We can pretend there's a future here but unless new music comes in the form of a long-player album, I'm not seeing it.
And that’s really the big question.

[Dragon]

With the tour going to New Zealand, I wonder if they’ll stop by Neil’s studio. With everyone having fresh chops, it seems like that would be a great time to record.

It could be a possibility to record an extended play and release it online.

[Blue Horizon]

Hi
Just a heads up to say that in guitar world there is a new interview with Mike Cambell where he discusses his new role with FM etc. I won't spill all the beans here,but if you head over to www.guitarworld.com and use the search facility for Mike Cambell and scroll down the various articles you will come across it.
Amongst the interesting info, Mike states that he hopes FM will record new music at some point.

Blue Horizon

[Nick]

Amongst the interesting info, Mike states that he hopes FM will record new music at some point.



That's all I want, new music.

[mitzo]

That's all I want, new music.

Same here. The tours are redundant and have been for years. With or without Lindsey.

[Nick]

Same here. The tours are redundant and have been for years. With or without Lindsey.

I totally agree.

[BigAl84]

Hi
Just a heads up to say that in guitar world there is a new interview with Mike Cambell where he discusses his new role with FM etc. I won't spill all the beans here,but if you head over to www.guitarworld.com and use the search facility for Mike Cambell and scroll down the various articles you will come across it.
Amongst the interesting info, Mike states that he hopes FM will record new music at some point.

Blue Horizon

Even if they do record something, I'd venture to say they have tapped out the market. Between the last two tours and now this one, even with 3 new tracks mixed into the same set..I don't know how many tickets they can move again. They don't have 5 years to lay low again either.

The sad thing is, if they really decided to reinvent their entire approach as a band they would have more opportunities. New material, new arrangements, and smaller venues might create a new direction for them. It would be less money and we know how this band sways with the direction of cash, so I'm not optimistic any of it will happen. They would have to break out of the arena hits show mentality and actually dig in deep as artists. They could still present some of the hits in a different way but it would take effort and time.

The fact that Mike thought it was worth learning 40 or 50 tracks is so darn laughable. Nobody was willing to be real enough to hand him a sheet with the core 20 tracks!? I mean let's cut the carp. This wasn't John Mayer learning the Dead's catalog. That gig does actually require that much learning.

They could have a nice run if they would be willing to let go of the status quo as they know it, but I'm not sure certain egos will entertain that path of thinking. I feel bad for Mike, there could be a lot of disappointment ahead once the tour wraps up.

[Sugar Mouse]

Neil Finn just gave an interview on BBC Radio and he said that band members are emailing him short musical ideas and he's organizing them and starting to write songs out of some of these ideas.

[SteveMacD]

Neil Finn just gave an interview on BBC Radio and he said that band members are emailing him short musical ideas and he's organizing them and starting to write songs out of some of these ideas.

That’s what led to Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie. It was Christine and Lindsey bouncing ideas off each other with the intention of making a Fleetwood Mac album. Unless one of members is Stevie, look for a McVie & Finn album sometime next year (which I’d be fine with).

[mitzo]

That’s what led to Lindsey Buckingham/Christine McVie. It was Christine and Lindsey bouncing ideas off each other with the intention of making a Fleetwood Mac album. Unless one of members is Stevie, look for a McVie & Finn album sometime next year (which I’d be fine with).

Stevie can cowrite with Mike.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie can cowrite with Mike.

She has and can, but will she? She could have picked a couple of covers for LBCM and had that be a Fleetwood Mac release.

[BigAl84]

IF Stevie will contribute, it will be for two sole reasons. It will be yet another Stab at lindsey and because Mike Campbell is in the same camp as Dave Stewart, a yes-man who will promise to not challenge Stevie on any level musically or in songwriting. Somebody she has known forever that will be allowed to be treated as a puppet.

I can't see Stevie emailing anyone anything since it's her devote belief that all things digital are evil (except for that thing that makes her vocals in tune in the studio ha ha ha).

I am curious how much of this is a Mike and Neil collaboration or a Neil and Christine collaboration. I suppose they might piss away another year waiting for somebody to decide if they want to participate or not.

Im sure Irving will have to chime in with how much potential money they will either lose or potentially make by recording new material. Can they lock in a cracker barrel or walmart exclusive deal? Odds are they will be persuaded to do another tour instead.

Elle said it best - so many fans have been burned by all the hopeful and wishful thinking around recording anything as "Fleetwood Mac" between 2009-2016. The biggest miracle about Buckingham Mcvie was that it was somehow allowed to be released and somehow they toured behind it. In the end, it caused a ton of grief for Lindsey and his eventual departure.

[BigAl84]

I also see Neil Finn as the first to say goodbye. He is very active with his own career and a very creative guy. I honestly can't see him tip toeing around FM politics and putting years aside for more greatest hits tours and Irving Azof breathing down his neck.

Mike will hang in there as some dumb obligation to Stevie. Nothing more. He too has his own thing going on. I just see Mike hanging on longer due to his friendship with Stevie.

[SteveMacD]

I also see Neil Finn as the first to say goodbye. He is very active with his own career and a very creative guy. I honestly can't see him tip toeing around FM politics and putting years aside for more greatest hits tours and Irving Azof breathing down his neck.

Mike will hang in there as some dumb obligation to Stevie. Nothing more. He too has his own thing going on. I just see Mike hanging on longer due to his friendship with Stevie.

Funny, I see just the opposite. Neil seems very excited in the very recent press he’s done about being in Fleetwood Mac. He seems the type who can balance multiple projects simultaneously.

[Storms123]

Funny, I see just the opposite. Neil seems very excited in the very recent press he’s done about being in Fleetwood Mac. He seems the type who can balance multiple projects simultaneously.

I agree with this. MC doesn't seem as "all in" to FM and continuing on. I understand what he said in the interview was quite to the contrary, but in reading the article a few times, I sort of inferred it. He's got the Dirty Knobs and has said the Heartbreakers will tour/regroup (I forget his verbatim there). As many have said before, FM doesn't have time on it's side, so if they don't get their post tour "Plans" together, I could absolutely see MC bowing out (and NF too)

[David]

I agree with this. MC doesn't seem as "all in" to FM and continuing on. I understand what he said in the interview was quite to the contrary, but in reading the article a few times, I sort of inferred it. He's got the Dirty Knobs and has said the Heartbreakers will tour/regroup (I forget his verbatim there). As many have said before, FM doesn't have time on it's side, so if they don't get their post tour "Plans" together, I could absolutely see MC bowing out (and NF too)
I agree with your thoughts.

Fleetwood's 2019 tour is pretty piddly. They've done one or two shows so far, correct? And according to the website, here's what's on the tour docket from now through September:


Ten days in February
Thirteen days in March
Six days in April
May OFF
Six days in June
July OFF
Seven days in August
Eight days in September


That's about fifty shows. Nice work if you can get it. A nine-month tour of fifty shows. Pretty piddly. It doesn't exactly bespeak a band firing on all cylinders. Maybe it's supposed to be a part-time thing for the members at this point.

I predict that Fleetwood Mac will continue to tour at this anemic pace for another year tops. The new gents will move on, Stevie will go back to the other side of the mirror, Mick will foment some new financial venture and maybe a club or a pickup band, and Chris and John will be left standing on an empty rehearsal stage muttering. There's hardly any juice in the warhorse. The idea of a flowering of creativity—a renaissance of new music and new plans—is silly. This group is just an old cash cow and the milk is pretty thin. It's too bad because they might have tried some very cool new things this past year.

On the other hand, this is better than how most rock groups die.

[BigAl84]

I agree, MC does not seem all that enthused. I just don't think he will bail first. Who knows...

[Sugar Mouse]

Neil seems to thoroughly enjoy being in Fleetwood Mac. I think he misses the band atmosphere which he really hasn't experienced since Paul Hester's death. Many thought that Crowded House would become a stadium act around the world and this is his chance to experience some of that.

Going forward, I see him balancing Mac work with his own projects. He loves to stay busy and loves to challenge myself. He has an album's worth of material already written with his brother Tim Finn so I expect him to record that album late this year or in 2020. A lot of Finn fans see him reuniting Crowded House for a 2020 tour.

Outside of that, I expect Neil to convince Irving of the merits of a new studio album. Studio albums don't generate direct revenue but they have loads of indirect benefits. They generate fan interest in tours (tours tend to sell better when there's new material) and they also get the creative juices flowing which helps in countless ways.

[SteveMacD]

I agree with your thoughts.

Fleetwood's 2019 tour is pretty piddly. They've done one or two shows so far, correct? And according to the website, here's what's on the tour docket from now through September:


Ten days in February
Thirteen days in March
Six days in April
May OFF
Six days in June
July OFF
Seven days in August
Eight days in September


That's about fifty shows. Nice work if you can get it. A nine-month tour of fifty shows. Pretty piddly. It doesn't exactly bespeak a band firing on all cylinders. Maybe it's supposed to be a part-time thing for the members at this point.
I see a bunch of people, most near or over 70, being away from home, in near constant motion, not necessarily knowing what the accommodations are going to be like, when or where the next meal will be, never getting to feel settled in, constantly being around the same people, where one day can feel like a week, for over four months straight.

Granted, the way they tour is a completely different beast from what I got to experience (mine was pretty blue collar by comparison), the fundamentals are pretty much the same.

It’s not easy, it takes a toll, and the show becomes almost a formality in the grand scheme of a day (which is how they can play the same setlist every night).

[BigAl84]

Neil seems to thoroughly enjoy being in Fleetwood Mac. I think he misses the band atmosphere which he really hasn't experienced since Paul Hester's death. Many thought that Crowded House would become a stadium act around the world and this is his chance to experience some of that.

Going forward, I see him balancing Mac work with his own projects. He loves to stay busy and loves to challenge myself. He has an album's worth of material already written with his brother Tim Finn so I expect him to record that album late this year or in 2020. A lot of Finn fans see him reuniting Crowded House for a 2020 tour.

Outside of that, I expect Neil to convince Irving of the merits of a new studio album. Studio albums don't generate direct revenue but they have loads of indirect benefits. They generate fan interest in tours (tours tend to sell better when there's new material) and they also get the creative juices flowing which helps in countless ways.


Hahaha you just mentioned creativity and Irving in the same sentence. That's ironic and amusing.

Also, balancing solo work and Fleetwood Mac is not something the band (ok stevie nicks) actually welcomes in practice, unless you are in fact Stevie Nicks. In that case, a separate set of rules applies (that includes a spineless backing from Mick fleetwood) If working around solo careers was an easily negotiable thing within the band, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. No offense, but it's always easy for the new guy in town to think it's going to be somehow different for them.

[tothegypsy]

IF Stevie will contribute, it will be for two sole reasons. It will be yet another Stab at lindsey and because Mike Campbell is in the same camp as Dave Stewart, a yes-man who will promise to not challenge Stevie on any level musically or in songwriting.

To play devil's advocate, if the production on "Illume" and "Smile At You" from Say You Will are the sounds of Stevie being challenged, then I'd rather she have a yes-man.

[BigAl84]

To play devil's advocate, if the production on "Illume" and "Smile At You" from Say You Will are the sounds of Stevie being challenged, then I'd rather she have a yes-man.

LOL...that is the most tired, cliche argument that folks love to use here...let's use the good old SYW reference because Stevie is the absolute victim of Lindsey Buckingham. Nah...she didn't sign off on the vocal take or anything pertaining to the song. somehow people think Lindsey did whatever to her songs with her hands tied. She agreed to who did the mixing and final playback. It's not all Lindsey as much as it's convenient to pull that cop out argument. I'm not a fan of how that album was mastered at the end of the day nor some of the choices made either.

I won't even go into her 24 K gold album. It speaks for itself. She sounds like she smoked three packs of kools before laying vocals down for the dealer and it sounds like exactly what it is. A bunch of talented studio musicians told to stick exactly to the demo which wasn't great material to begin with.

With challenges comes some failures. Treading water brings mediocrity.

[BigAl84]

To play devil's advocate, if the production on "Illume" and "Smile At You" from Say You Will are the sounds of Stevie being challenged, then I'd rather she have a yes-man.

To play devils advocate...everyone knows how well Gypsy turned out during the Bella Donna sessions (to this day Wachtel nor Campbell can even play the parts correctly)..but sure, lets continue to talk about Lindsey as a poor producer. He didn't have any involvement in the production of Dreams, Rhiannon or Gypsy. Those were just minor hits for Stevie.....:laugh::laugh: Surely her personification and notoriety was defined by Wildheart and Gate & Garden. I freakin' forgot.

https://media.giphy.com/media/15BuyagtKucHm/giphy.gif

[SteveMacD]

To play devils advocate...everyone knows how well Gypsy turned out during the Bella Donna sessions (to this day Wachtel nor Campbell can even play the parts correctly)..but sure, lets continue to talk about Lindsey as a poor producer. He didn't have any involvement in the production of Dreams, Rhiannon or Gypsy. Those were just minor hits for Stevie.....:laugh::laugh: Surely her personification and notoriety was defined by Wildheart and Gate & Garden. I freakin' forgot.

https://media.giphy.com/media/15BuyagtKucHm/giphy.gif

Yeah, I heard the Fleetwood Mac version of Edge of Seventeen, and the genius couldn’t hold a candle to Waddy. They all have different strengths as guitarists. Vito is still the best player, in terms of technique and versatility, they ever had. Not the most original…

[David]

Yeah, I heard the Fleetwood Mac version of Edge of Seventeen, and the genius couldn’t hold a candle to Waddy.You didn't hear a "version." You heard a 1982 tour rehearsal with a few seconds of the Macsters clowning around with Stevie's big hit. Taking nothing away from Waddy here, whose sixteenth notes are classic. But Fleetwood Mac never genuinely tracked that song. Frankly, I'd have trouble thinking of anything more remote from their style than Edge. Had she brought them that song for a Mac album, it would probably be unrecognizable from what it is.

[tothegypsy]

To play devils advocate...everyone knows how well Gypsy turned out during the Bella Donna sessions (to this day Wachtel nor Campbell can even play the parts correctly)..but sure, lets continue to talk about Lindsey as a poor producer. He didn't have any involvement in the production of Dreams, Rhiannon or Gypsy. Those were just minor hits for Stevie.....:laugh::laugh: Surely her personification and notoriety was defined by Wildheart and Gate & Garden. I freakin' forgot.


I don't doubt that he was once her best producer, I'm just not confident that he is *still* her best producer. That's why I referred to examples from 2003, rather than the wonderful "Gypsy" from 1982. I suppose the most recent song that you could judge is "Without You" from 2013.

[BigAl84]

Yet oddly enough Christine didn't appear to have any issues working with Lindsey on their album together.

With Stevie's most recent disillusion of her demos being better than anything a professional could do, I'd be shocked if she were not the driving force behind Without You remaining so simple with just guitar and vocals. I don't know.

[SteveMacD]

Oddly enough, except for Dreams, Stevie had more chart success as a solo artist by The Wild Heart than she ever had with Fleetwood Mac.

[BigAl84]

Yeah, I heard the Fleetwood Mac version of Edge of Seventeen, and the genius couldn’t hold a candle to Waddy. They all have different strengths as guitarists. Vito is still the best player, in terms of technique and versatility, they ever had. Not the most original…

Yeah and there is a mile long line of guitarists that sound just like Vito. Nothing against him at all. Yeah he's probably the best technical player and musician, but I could pick Lindsey's style and tone out a mile away.

Nice try on the Edge of 17 argument. That was audio from the Mirage Tour rehearsals and they were goofing around off the cuff. You're comparing apple's to oranges.

[BigAl84]

Oddly enough, except for Dreams, Stevie had more chart success as a solo artist by The Wild Heart than she ever had with Fleetwood Mac.

Yeah she's filling arenas due to that albums success! Ok....

Actually she's not really filling arenas at all on her own these days unless it's a co-bill with somebody else.

[tothegypsy]

Yet oddly enough Christine didn't appear to have any issues working with Lindsey on their album together.

With Stevie's most recent disillusion of her demos being better than anything a professional could do, I'd be shocked if she were not the driving force behind Without You remaining so simple with just guitar and vocals. I don't know.

I enjoyed the BuckMcVie album and tour. The songs were catchy. From a production perspective, it sounds more like a follow-up to Tango In The Night than an album released in 2017. Admittedly, the 80s are back in fashion.

[BigAl84]

I think the constant eggshell situation between Lindsey and Stevie was really the driving wedge in the final outcome of the last material they worked on together. This includes SYW, The EP and Soldiers Angel.

You really can't make a suggestion to Stevie without it being taken as a personal attack and as a producer I don't know what you can do at that point except try and make the most with what you've got. Lindsey is no saint either, but there's a broken link in their working dialogue. This isn't the case with him and Christine which is why I think we hear more mac magic on BuckVie than anything else.

I was never impressed with Soldiers Angel. The simplicity of Lindsey's part has a dramatic effect, but it always seemed a little half baked to me...Yet Stevie at that time regarded it as her most favorite thing she had recorded recently and was thrilled with Lindsey's work.

[SteveMacD]

Yeah she's filling arenas due to that albums success! Ok....

Reality check: Bella Donna and The Wild Heart are the foundation for her becoming the first woman inducted into the Hall of Fame for a second time. She actually had greater chart success without Lindsey.

Stevie with Fleetwood Mac (1975-87)
R: 11
D: 1
S: 7
G: 12
7W: 19
AVERAGE: 10

Stevie solo (1981-90)
SDMHA: 3
L&L: 6
Eo17: 11
SB: 5
IAF: 14
TTM: 4
ICW: 16
ROF: 16
AVERAGE 9.375

Maybe it’s more a matter of without a dynamic front woman, a killer rhythm section, and two other mainstream writers, nobody would care about Lindsey.

[BigAl84]

Reality check: Bella Donna and The Wild Heart are the foundation for her becoming the first woman inducted into the Hall of Fame for a second time. She actually had greater chart success without Lindsey.

Stevie with Fleetwood Mac (1975-87)
R: 11
D: 1
S: 7
G: 12
7W: 19
AVERAGE: 10

Stevie solo (1981-90)
SDMHA: 3
L&L: 6
Eo17: 11
SB: 5
IAF: 14
TTM: 4
ICW: 16
ROF: 16
AVERAGE 9.375

Maybe it’s more a matter of without a dynamic front woman, a killer rhythm section, and two other mainstream writers, nobody would care about Lindsey.

Oh good God, right Steve. Sure.

David, pass the popcorn.

[BigAl84]

Because in 1995 anybody gave a sh*t about Stevie Nicks until she reunited with that nobody guitarist in 1997.

Yeah she REALLY packed Boston Commons back in 96 and the makeshift stage in Tampa. Yeah her legacy as a solo artist was really shining brightly up until 97....people were covering "Nightbird" left and right on the radio.

She was about ten degrees away from opening for Seals & Croft pre 97.

Say whatever you want, but FM gave her a new platform to secure her own legacy over the past 20 years.

[SteveMacD]

Because in 1995 anybody gave a sh*t about Stevie Nicks until she reunited with that nobody guitarist in 1997.

Yeah she REALLY packed Boston Commons back in 96 and the makeshift stage in Tampa. Yeah her legacy as a solo artist was really shining brightly up until 97....

And even less people cared about Lindsey when he opened for Tina Turner in 1993.

[BigAl84]

Ok then what in the world is your point Steve? Wow... talking in circles.

[BigAl84]

LB's contributions to her FM songs was a huge influence on her success and ability to launch her solo career. Had she not had success with FM, she wouldn't have nearly as many doors opened for her. If you can't recognize that, then I don't know what kind of trip you're on.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm saying there is a link. Neither of them would be where they are had Mick not caught wind of Buckingham Nicks. Also, who who arranged Stevie's songs on Buckingham Nicks - Lindsey with the help of Keith Olsen.

But at the end of the day, it wasn't Christine, Mick, or John playing musical director for her songs. A large majority was Lindsey at the head of the bus.

One thing is for sure - she's not getting in the rock hall twice because of Rick Vito's work on her Behind the Mask songs.

[David]

Reality check: Bella Donna and The Wild Heart are the foundation for her becoming the first woman inducted into the Hall of Fame for a second time. She actually had greater chart success without Lindsey.

Stevie with Fleetwood Mac (1975-87)
R: 11
D: 1
S: 7
G: 12
7W: 19
AVERAGE: 10

Stevie solo (1981-90)
SDMHA: 3
L&L: 6
Eo17: 11
SB: 5
IAF: 14
TTM: 4
ICW: 16
ROF: 16
AVERAGE 9.375

Quantifying, quantifying . . . always quantifying. It's the sociologist in you.

This numerical list is interesting for another reason: Stevie's two highest-charting solo songs weren't written by her (Stop Dragging and Talk to Me). Two others are co-writing credits (If Anyone Falls and I Can't Wait), Leather and Lace has Don Henley's stamp, even though he isn't credited, and Seventeen is of course the signature sixteenth notes—Wachtel's idea. Her highest-charting single off Shangri-La was written by other people (although her excellent Planets was a big hit in the clubs). Her highest-charting single off Street Angel was written by other people. Her highest-charting single off Timespace was written by other people.

Stevie's iconic songs—her classics—are largely from Fleetwood's catalogue. I'm going to suggest, in sum, that her Fleetwood Mac work outpaces her solo work in terms of both musical imprint and audience appeal.

[BigAl84]

A year later and I don't think I've ever seen somebody nearly miss his cue for the entire solo and then fumble through it.

02.02.19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Rl5zlRQsw

I don't mean to be hard on the guy but....yiiiikkkeesss

Clearly Lindsey is easily replaceable. Everything is fine LOL.

[Feather Blade]

A year later and I don't think I've ever seen somebody nearly miss his cue for the entire solo and then fumble through it.

02.02.19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Rl5zlRQsw

I don't mean to be hard on the guy but....yiiiikkkeesss

Clearly Lindsey is easily replaceable. Everything is fine LOL.

If Steve were here he could be kind enough to post that clip of a certain former member starting the wrong song at the promotional appearance on one of the morning shows a few years ago. Clearly musicians can make the occasional mistake. Not sure why this was worth mentioning on multiple threads.

[BigAl84]

He's actually done this several times and I always figured it would work out as the tour progresses, but apparently not. How many shows have they done so far? Yet it still sounds like an unrehearsed mess.

There's a huge difference between an 8am flub on a morning show BEFORE a tour has even started and butchering the parts and missing the cue throughout an entire tour.

I love the heartbreakers and Mike's playing which is why the sloppiness has been even more of a shock. He does well with the blues numbers, but not when it comes to those signature buckingham parts.

[Feather Blade]

He's actually done this several times and I always figured it would work out as the tour progresses, but apparently not. How many shows have they done so far? Yet it still sounds like an unrehearsed mess.

There's a huge difference between an 8am flub on a morning show BEFORE a tour has even started and butchering the parts and missing the cue throughout an entire tour.

I love the heartbreaker and Mike's playing which is why the sloppiness has been even more of a shock.

To be fair, playing these songs is still fairly new to him.

[BigAl84]

Let the justification continue...the video speaks for itself at the end of the day.

[Feather Blade]

Let the justification continue...the video speaks for itself at the end of the day.

Justification? You mean like you excusing Lindsey's mistake for it being early in the morning? Mine is no worse than yours. Mike makes mistakes, Lindsey makes mistakes, you make them, I know for sure I do. It doesn't seem worth mentioning it in multiple threads. Have a good day Al.

[BigAl84]

Maybe you didn't understand my post, I'll say it again:

There's a huge difference between an 8am flub on a morning show BEFORE a tour has even started and butchering the parts and missing the cue throughout an entire tour.

Hope you have a great day too!:wavey::laugh:

[BigAl84]

Let me be clear. I'm not trying to pick on the guy for a one time flub. The sloppy playing and missed cues is not a rare occasion on this tour. I'm also bringing this up, not just because Mike isn't Lindsey and Lindsey is gone. That's really not my point.

I just don't understand why he cant solidify what it is he's going to play and come in on the mark.

Here's a tribute band that nails the solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLydlS6fHFg

[secret love]

Yeah, I heard the Fleetwood Mac version of Edge of Seventeen, and the genius couldn’t hold a candle to Waddy. They all have different strengths as guitarists. Vito is still the best player, in terms of technique and versatility, they ever had. Not the most original…

Agreed, Vito is brilliant.
Disagreed, Waddy cannot produce near as well as Lindsey.

But Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham co-producing Without You had AMAZING results.

:thumbsup:

:angel:

[secret love]

A year later and I don't think I've ever seen somebody nearly miss his cue for the entire solo and then fumble through it.

02.02.19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Rl5zlRQsw

I don't mean to be hard on the guy but....yiiiikkkeesss

Clearly Lindsey is easily replaceable. Everything is fine LOL.

Watched the video. Not nearly as bad as I was expecting based off of your comments.

:shrug:

[AncientQueen]

That sounds like a very bad Karaoke version of Gypsy and the solo is the least of it's problems. What the hell is Stevie doing to that song here? And why is it so slow and why does it sound so distorted? While I KNEW that I would see a clip of Gypsy when I klicked on the link, I basically recognized the song based on the lyrics. Vaguely.

[SteveMacD]

Neil Finn just gave an interview on BBC Radio and he said that band members are emailing him short musical ideas and he's organizing them and starting to write songs out of some of these ideas.

Just listened to the interview, and the only one sending him bits of music is Mick.

[sands of time]

He's actually done this several times and I always figured it would work out as the tour progresses, but apparently not. How many shows have they done so far? Yet it still sounds like an unrehearsed mess.

There's a huge difference between an 8am flub on a morning show BEFORE a tour has even started and butchering the parts and missing the cue throughout an entire tour.

I love the heartbreakers and Mike's playing which is why the sloppiness has been even more of a shock. He does well with the blues numbers, but not when it comes to those signature buckingham parts.

To be fair, it's a wonder that he can even stay awake during that dull mess. It's a ponderous, sludgy, god-awful version of the song. Failure to maintain even a cursory interest is totally understandable.

[jmn3]

That sounds like a very bad Karaoke version of Gypsy and the solo is the least of it's problems. What the hell is Stevie doing to that song here? And why is it so slow and why does it sound so distorted? While I KNEW that I would see a clip of Gypsy when I klicked on the link, I basically recognized the song based on the lyrics. Vaguely.

Brutal is the best way to describe it. Gypsy has so rarely ever worked on stage. I have some fondness for the raw ramshackle versions from the Mirage Tour and I do appreciate the back to basics version from 1997 (when she could still hit the high notes). This is peak brutal for Gypsy, however. I know it's 2019 and not 1982 or even 1997, but, yikes. Mike seems bored, that stupid piano thing he plays is ridiculous looking, and his solo is a complete embarrassment. Stevie isn't hitting any of the right notes (and what on Earth is with the continued use of the god awful "yasayheyyyyybehbayyyyyyy" with the dorky wave?), and it seems painfully slow.

[BigAl84]

LOL...I wonder how much of Stevie's vocals Christine has mixed into her earpiece.....-5?

[BigAl84]

At the end of the day, I'd still die to know what Christine REALLY thinks of this entire situation.

[cbBen]

I suspect she feels duped.

[sue]

That sounds like a very bad Karaoke version of Gypsy and the solo is the least of it's problems. What the hell is Stevie doing to that song here? And why is it so slow and why does it sound so distorted? While I KNEW that I would see a clip of Gypsy when I klicked on the link, I basically recognized the song based on the lyrics. Vaguely.

I haven’t heard much of this tour at all...BUT...
Stevie sounds like a Pub singer, and a bad pub singer at that..

[Storms123]

I haven’t heard much of this tour at all...BUT...
Stevie sounds like a Pub singer, and a bad pub singer at that..

The lack of publicity for what is potentially a “farewell” tour is shocking

[SteveMacD]

The lack of publicity for what is potentially a “farewell” tour is shocking

Why waste the time, money, and energy on publicity when the shows have been close to sell outs?

[Storms123]

Why waste the time, money, and energy on publicity when the shows have been close to sell outs?

On With the Show was close to sell out too. They publicized that. Before you say the return of Christine was the reason for that, I will say if this is their farewell tour, it's just as newsworthy, or should be under normal circumstances. And also--The Legacy of a Great Band---why would you not publicize the history, all of it.

[SteveMacD]

if this is their farewell tour
They haven’t said it’s their farewell tour. Mick shot that down a couple of years ago. I realize it’s optimistic/naive to think it can go on much longer, but they’re not on that page, yet.

And also--The Legacy of a Great Band---why would you not publicize the history, all of it.
I agree with this. It would be nice for them to promote the new retrospective and tie it into the tour. I suspect legal has been keeping them away from the press.

[Storms123]

They haven’t said it’s their farewell tour. Mick shot that down a couple of years ago. I realize it’s optimistic/naive to think it can go on much longer, but they’re not on that page, yet.


I agree with this. It would be nice for them to promote the new retrospective and tie it into the tour. I suspect legal has been keeping them away from the press. Would hope post the settlement they could all speak. Makes me wonder what else is out there, potentially, we don't know about.

Youngest guy in the Rumours 5 just had open heart surgery. They've all got one foot on a banana peel at this point. I can't imagine (but am always surprised by this crew) they can do much more together after this. Particularly if Stevie (and I am not saying this to insight fury in the masses) holds them to the 3 year break between tours.

[secondhandchain]

Either she will ignore LB's illness or she will make it ALL about HER.

[secondhandchain]

Supposedly the band has known about it for a few days but waited to comment until the family released a statement. No wonder Stevie was extra animated on thursday. Dancing around and way over the top happy. That's what I heard and it's really gross.

[SorcererJP]

Supposedly the band has known about it for a few days but waited to comment until the family released a statement. No wonder Stevie was extra animated on thursday. Dancing around and way over the top happy. That's what I heard and it's really gross.

It's a job !!! People come over to have a great time .. you just have to perform ... it has NOTHING to do with being happy about this situation ... I'm pretty sure she isn't ... all other thoughts are just in your head ... seek help !!!

Back in 2013 I was at the last show in Amsterdam before they had to cancel the Aussie-tour due to John's illness ... minutes before the show I read the news on the internet on my phone ... and they knew it as well ... they just delivered a great show ... it's wat they do for a living ...

[SteveMacD]

This numerical list is interesting for another reason: Stevie's two highest-charting solo songs weren't written by her (Stop Dragging and Talk to Me). Two others are co-writing credits (If Anyone Falls and I Can't Wait), Leather and Lace has Don Henley's stamp, even though he isn't credited, and Seventeen is of course the signature sixteenth notes—Wachtel's idea. Her highest-charting single off Shangri-La was written by other people (although her excellent Planets was a big hit in the clubs). Her highest-charting single off Street Angel was written by other people. Her highest-charting single off Timespace was written by other people.

None of whom were Lindsey Buckingham.

[David]

None of whom were Lindsey Buckingham.
I forgot what we were discussing. I'm currently fighting with FB friends over the liberal bias on CNN.

[jeets2000]

Fleetwood Mac is playing in DC tonight, and it's harder than I thought it would be sitting this tour out. I have no interest in giving them my money after what they pulled, but after being a fan for so long, it's hard for me to reconcile the fact that "my band" is playing here and I'm willfully sitting it out.

Still, I love watching for ticket drops on TicketMaster, and there have been lots today. The side section next to Christine opened up entirely this morning. Front half for $150, the upper half for $100. She would be the only person I'd be going to see, so it was tempting. And of course, in typical FM fashion, the entire back row of the front floor section opened up as well ($200). The fact they're charging more for a Lindsey-less band is truly galling.

Anyway, use this post as a half-lament, half-PSA on decent tickets for tonight's show! :wavey:

[elle]

Fleetwood Mac is playing in DC tonight, and it's harder than I thought it would be sitting this tour out. I have no interest in giving them my money after what they pulled, but after being a fan for so long, it's hard for me to reconcile the fact that "my band" is playing here and I'm willfully sitting it out.

Still, I love watching for ticket drops on TicketMaster, and there have been lots today. The side section next to Christine opened up entirely this morning. Front half for $150, the upper half for $100. She would be the only person I'd be going to see, so it was tempting. And of course, in typical FM fashion, the entire back row of the front floor section opened up as well ($200). The fact they're charging more for a Lindsey-less band is truly galling.

Anyway, use this post as a half-lament, half-PSA on decent tickets for tonight's show! :wavey:

i bought those side tix next to Chris on drops day of on Fleetwood Mac's final tour back in 2015. they were $50 more than they are now, interestingly. actually, the section that dropped today was all sold out back in 2015, it was that section further towards the side (the one that starts at row F or something like that) that dropped the day of the show in 2015. those tix haven't dropped yet today and i suspect they probably won't even be on sale since these currently available won't sell. i would have bought these side stage tix on a drop today if LB was still with the band.

needless to say - of course i'm sitting out. i wouldn't go even if someone got me in for free. his heart attack makes it even worse.

i last saw Chris up close and personal 10+ times on BuckVie tour in 2017, i'm good. if she gets together with Lindsey again - IF he ever tours again - then i'll get to see her again.

i hope DC reviewers will have the integrity like the several recent ones had (not sure why those very balanced critical reviews are not posted in this forum) to actually review the show and not just paste the text provided by the band publicists.

[elle]

https://twitter.com/BeltwayGreg/status/1102924059044732930

[jeets2000]

i bought those side tix next to Chris on drops day of on Fleetwood Mac's final tour back in 2015. they were $50 more than they are now, interestingly. actually, the section that dropped today was all sold out back in 2015, it was that section further towards the side (the one that starts at row F or something like that) that dropped the day of the show in 2015. those tix haven't dropped yet today and i suspect they probably won't even be on sale since these currently available won't sell. i would have bought these side stage tix on a drop today if LB was still with the band.

needless to say - of course i'm sitting out. i wouldn't go even if someone got me in for free. his heart attack makes it even worse.

i last saw Chris up close and personal 10+ times on BuckVie tour in 2017, i'm good. if she gets together with Lindsey again - IF he ever tours again - then i'll get to see her again.

i hope DC reviewers will have the integrity like the several recent ones had (not sure why those very balanced critical reviews are not posted in this forum) to actually review the show and not just paste the text provided by the band publicists.

I hadn't checked the current band's set list in a while. As previously stated, my main reason for sitting out was what the band did to Lindsey. But I'll admit that the opening night setlist was tempting.

Fast forward to today, they've dropped all of the interesting songs that a long-time fan would want to hear... Hypnotized, Isn't It Midnight, Storms, Tell Me All The Things You Do. It's unbelievable. Especially after the shot Stevie took at Lindsey about playing those songs, and of course the band's statement when they fired him (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/fleetwood-mac-fires-lindsey-buckingham-629198/):

Fleetwood Mac issued a collective statement about the news, saying: “We are thrilled to welcome the musical talents of the caliber of Mike Campbell and Neil Finn into the Mac family. With Mike and Neil, we’ll be performing all the hits that the fans love, plus we’ll be surprising our audiences with some tracks from our historic catalogue of songs. Fleetwood Mac has always been a creative evolution. We look forward to honoring that spirit on this upcoming tour.”

[jeets2000]

i bought those side tix next to Chris on drops day of on Fleetwood Mac's final tour back in 2015. they were $50 more than they are now, interestingly. actually, the section that dropped today was all sold out back in 2015, it was that section further towards the side (the one that starts at row F or something like that) that dropped the day of the show in 2015. those tix haven't dropped yet today and i suspect they probably won't even be on sale since these currently available won't sell. i would have bought these side stage tix on a drop today if LB was still with the band.

The floodgates have opened up on the sides of the stage... An even better section than the one I was referring to earlier.

https://i.imgur.com/zah2j92.png

[elle]

The floodgates have opened up on the sides of the stage... An even better section than the one I was referring to earlier.

oh wow. i also just got a stubhub email and clicked on it - there's row 5 orchestra floor for $215. scalpers are definitely losing money on this tour, at least looking at today's show.

[lovethemac1]

Their show in my city, in April, is still 75% unsold.

[lovethemac1]

Their show in my city, in April, is still 75% unsold.

13167

lots still to sell........

[SteveMacD]

13167

lots still to sell........

Maybe it won’t sell out. At this point, it’s already been a successful tour, so it would only be an unusual blip.