Anyone else really dislike Stevie now?

[Wdm6789]

I haven’t been active on The Ledge for a while, but I need to vent about this.
I cannot believe Stevie would break up the band, especially now. It’s nearing the end for them and Christine finally came back, no one thought that would ever happen. I mean really Stevie!? It’s like she’s giving all the devoted fans the middle finger. What a selfies b****. According to Lindsey, he did everything he could to try to make things work but Stevie wasn’t having it. I would be so pissed if I was Christine. I would have threatened to quit if I was her. I’m sure she came back with the intention of the classic lineup going out together.

[Netter75]

I think if you take a very brief glance at almost any thread on the Rumours forum over the past few months you will immediately find an answer to your question :laugh:

[Storms123]

I think if you take a very brief glance at almost any thread on the Rumours forum over the past few months you will immediately find an answer to your question :laugh:

And the answer would be yes.....for many folks

[HomerMcvie]

$he's been all about herself for at least a couple of decades, but $he's completely consumed now.

"I'm not the boss".

Lying ****.

[sleepless child]

As a fan, it's been very hard to reconcile my love for her and her music and what she did to Lindsey.

I really thought better of this group of people. At their age, they should have been able to work things out and I'm really disappointed in Chris and John for not having Lindsey's back. Unless Lindsey did something we just don't know about. Postponing a tour for a few months isn't something you fire someone for. And if you believe Lindsey, why would the rest of the group not tell Stevie to suck it up.

But I guess she is the cash cow that draws everyone to the shows and they went with her. Sad. Just sad.

[Nicks Fan]

As a die hard Stevie Nicks fan I am very upset. But what really bothers me most is that so many fans keep giving her a pass for allot of things and have excuses for everything but when it comes to Lindsey whatever happened in the past is not excusable and he deserves everything he got.

In my opinion no one in this band is a saint they ALL did things that are totally unacceptable. But the thing is they rose above it all and moved forward.

The way things ended this past year is completely wrong. I agree 100 percent that SN is the draw and having her in the band ensures they could still play the arenas. But in my opinion if she wasn't on board for a new CD then quit and let them make music vs yet another tour. How can anyone excuse another GH tour? Yes they pulled out some very rare songs but it doesn't excuse another tour without any new material. I understand that albums don't sell but at the same time resting on your past achievements is stupid because it looks like you have nothing left to say or give to the fans.

I also don't believe her excuses for not wanting to make new music. I think in reality she is dried up creatively. When was the last time she released a song that she wrote entirely on her own that wasn't a demo from x amount of years ago? Lindsey on the other hand is still very much creative and some of his solo work from 2006 onward is really good. So his music doesn't reach millions. There are lots of artists (Patty Griffin for one) who are critically acclaimed but don't sell millions of albums or headline major arenas etc. If we judged all artists by their ability to sell millions of albums or what sized venues they played on tour what would that prove. Good music is good music no matter what.

The other thing that really bugs me is the numerous comments on Facebook from people who went to a FM show and praise SN for performing so well given what she is going through. It is like they think she is performing under duress. She didn't get fired so why do people assume she is the one going through hard times or whatever?

If Lindsey really and truly did something bad then they should have come out then and said so when he was fired vs making up lies about a tour delay.

[jbrownsjr]

Believe it or not, I'm still able to listen to the music and enjoy her older work. Her music helps me remember Stevie Nicks before she became such a selfish and entitled human being. Her behavior over the past 10 years or so disgusts me. I never in a million years thought she would turn out to be such a power/money hungry bully. But, there she is... being just that.. :shocked::eek::distress:

To freeze out someone out that helped give you the entitlement that you have today.... it's ironic and makes me very sad.

[jbrownsjr]

As a fan, it's been very hard to reconcile my love for her and her music and what she did to Lindsey.

I really thought better of this group of people. At their age, they should have been able to work things out and I'm really disappointed in Chris and John for not having Lindsey's back. Unless Lindsey did something we just don't know about. Postponing a tour for a few months isn't something you fire someone for. And if you believe Lindsey, why would the rest of the group not tell Stevie to suck it up.

But I guess she is the cash cow that draws everyone to the shows and they went with her. Sad. Just sad.

At the end of the day it's all about the cash cow. And, I never thought of their music that way.

[HomerMcvie]

At the end of the day it's all about the cash cow. And, I never thought of their music that way.

They created great music. Well, it was 40 years ago. Why should they bother doing anything new? Rich old whores is what they are.

LINDSEY IS THE ONLY ONE WITH ANY ARTISTIC INTEGRITY LEFT.

$tevie is the boss of their whore machine.

[jbrownsjr]

They created great music. Well, it was 40 years ago. Why should they bother doing anything new? Rich old whores is what they are.

LINDSEY IS THE ONLY ONE WITH ANY ARTISTIC INTEGRITY LEFT.

$tevie is the boss of their whore machine.

Christine did write for the new album. And they weren't old demos. I give her kudos for writing while in England. (ITM and BM)

[HomerMcvie]

Christine did write for the new album. And they weren't old demos. I give her kudos for writing while in England. (ITM and BM)

And yet she didn't stand up for him when the old goat had him fired. She chose the whore machine instead.

She was my favorite member for 40 years. She lost that title.

[jbrownsjr]

And yet she didn't stand up for him when the old goat had him fired. She chose the whore machine instead.

She was my favorite member for 40 years. She lost that title.

I'm guessing here.. but, I think they did it all behind her back.. and LB made her enter an agreement that she wouldn't leave. Don't forget that.

We need to know more in this case... (for me anyway). She's had an amazing career. And I would hate to think she put herself in the same low class bed w/ $tevie.

[HomerMcvie]

I'm guessing here.. but, I think they did it all behind her back.. and LB made her enter an agreement that she wouldn't leave. Don't forget that.

We need to know more in this case... (for me anyway). She's had an amazing career. And I would hate to think she put herself in the same low class bed w/ $tevie.

Actions speak louder than words. She did nothing(as far as we know).

I'd like to think that the LOVE they showed us on BuckVie MEANT SOMETHING. The way it looks now, it meant nothing. Just more fake FM drama. He may have well been faking love for the Old Goat.

[David]

Believe it or not, I'm still able to listen to the music and enjoy her older work. Her music helps me remember Stevie Nicks before she became such a selfish and entitled human being. Her behavior over the past 10 years or so disgusts me.
I have no trouble at all listening to Stevie's music (unless I happen to hate the song). All the less savory aspects of her actions have no influence on my need to hear the songs in the car, at the gym, at work, wherever.

What has changed for me — and it's due more to her tiresomeness than to her ego — is that I don't want to listen to her talk anymore. I used to love hearing her talk. In the old days, I listened over and over to every radio interview she gave. My favorites were the Jim Ladd Innerviews from 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, and 1986. I loved the way she talked and the things she said—how she framed her story. (For example, listen to her take on the love that the members had for one another and how that affected their performances in the 1979 Innerview, or the stories she told Mark and Brian or Mary Turner in 1994 about her professional fears.)

But for several years now, she just rankles me. What used to be always charming is now sometimes charmless. Occasionally, she still pulls out the old carefree, funny Stevie ("I like painting. . . right, houses"). But most of the time she comes across as long-winded, preachy, and shrill. (Did you watch her Australian 20/20 with Chrissie Hynde?) She used to be trite and cute. Now she's often trite and embarrassing—the Sylvia Browne of rock. She too often sounds bitter or cranky about something or other when she tells a story. What's her problem with life, anyway? That she's getting older and no longer looks like her 29-year-old self? Am I insensitive not to feel sorry for her on that count? Would she have preferred the alternative?

[cbBen]

At the end of the day, we don't know what Stevie's been dealing since 1997.

The straw that broke the camel's back may have been a light one, but also may have followed much behavior and goings-on about which we know little or nothing.

I give the benefit of the doubt to all.

My enjoyment of any of the music is impacted not a whit.

I do, however, take issue with the band for carrying on without Lindsey. After 1997, the band had no business excluding any Rumours member willing and able to participate.

[KenshiMaster16]

I do, however, take issue with the band for carrying on without Lindsey. After 1997, the band had no business excluding any Rumours member willing and able to participate.

This a million times over. Very well said and completely agree. It doesn't matter whether you side with Lindsey or Stevie, the entire band's legacy is now tainted and that's how it'll end. It's sad. Just plain sad.

[Wdm6789]

Don’t get me wrong, I love Stevie’s music. I just really dislike her as a person now. The thing that bothers me the most is that Christine finally came back. The band could complete their career all together, but nope, Stevie messed that all up. Again, I would be so pissed if I was Christine. I also can’t believe Mick allowed this to happen.

[cbBen]

Mick wasn't about to let other considerations come between him and 12 million dollars.

No matter what any of us may think we'd do in such a circumstance, until you've left that kind of money on the table it's hubristic to say for sure.

Christine, however, had already left that kind of money on the table, multiple times over. After Buckingham McVie, I am surprised she agreed to go on without Lindsey.

[Storms123]

Mick wasn't about to let other considerations come between him and 12 million dollars.

No matter what any of us may think we'd do in such a circumstance, until you've left that kind of money on the table it's hubristic to say for sure.

Christine, however, had already left that kind of money on the table, multiple times over. After Buckingham McVie, I am surprised she agreed to go on without Lindsey.

He's not getting that now---at least from the US leg.

[cbBen]

There will be a Blu-Ray or DVD (maybe even an album), and perhaps yet another tour. It may end up amounting to over $12 million.

[cbBen]

the entire band's legacy is now tainted and that's how it'll end

It's no coincidence that Lindsey is ending his shows with the song "Treason."

[cbBen]

The thing that bothers me the most is that Christine finally came back.

To be viable the band needs at least two Rumors vocalists. So without Christine back, they couldn't have fired Lindsey without dissolving the band altogether.

I suspect the thought of forcing Lindsey out at least crossed Stevie's mind in 2014 when Christine returned. It may have been something she was planning to do for quite a while.

[Jondalar]

No matter what happens now, Stevie looks bad. She looks petty. The band has ended on a bad note because of her.

[sue]

I can listen and love their music without loving them..and that’s how it is.
I used to love both Lindsey and Stevie when I was young, especially Lindsey..
But I don’t love anyone of them these days.
But the one I actually dislike is Mick...
He is the greedy bastard that gives free reign to Stevie.
He should have told her no Lindsey, no band.
They’re all guilty in this crap....everyone of them.

[BaronVonBielski]

I haven’t been active on The Ledge for a while, but I need to vent about this.
I cannot believe Stevie would break up the band, especially now. It’s nearing the end for them and Christine finally came back, no one thought that would ever happen. I mean really Stevie!? It’s like she’s giving all the devoted fans the middle finger. What a selfies b****. According to Lindsey, he did everything he could to try to make things work but Stevie wasn’t having it. I would be so pissed if I was Christine. I would have threatened to quit if I was her. I’m sure she came back with the intention of the classic lineup going out together.

I’ve disliked her for quite awhile. I find her to be unloyal which is a trait I find disgusting. My opinion of course. I don’t deny she’s a talented poet (her lyrics) and performer but she refuses to give Lindsey the credit for giving her a career. We all know the story and know Lindsey basically constructed her songs. She’s a rather rudimentary musician who requires someone to arrange her prose into an actual song. As a singer, she’s lost her range. Now what FM did to Lindsey is not all her fault. The rest of the band had a choice in the matter. But still in. I way does she deserve to be in the Rock Hall as a solo artist. It’s almost laughable. Again this is my opinion.

[sleepless child]

As a die hard Stevie Nicks fan I am very upset. But what really bothers me most is that so many fans keep giving her a pass for allot of things and have excuses for everything but when it comes to Lindsey whatever happened in the past is not excusable and he deserves everything he got.

In my opinion no one in this band is a saint they ALL did things that are totally unacceptable. But the thing is they rose above it all and moved forward.

The way things ended this past year is completely wrong. I agree 100 percent that SN is the draw and having her in the band ensures they could still play the arenas. But in my opinion if she wasn't on board for a new CD then quit and let them make music vs yet another tour. How can anyone excuse another GH tour? Yes they pulled out some very rare songs but it doesn't excuse another tour without any new material. I understand that albums don't sell but at the same time resting on your past achievements is stupid because it looks like you have nothing left to say or give to the fans.

I also don't believe her excuses for not wanting to make new music. I think in reality she is dried up creatively. When was the last time she released a song that she wrote entirely on her own that wasn't a demo from x amount of years ago? Lindsey on the other hand is still very much creative and some of his solo work from 2006 onward is really good. So his music doesn't reach millions. There are lots of artists (Patty Griffin for one) who are critically acclaimed but don't sell millions of albums or headline major arenas etc. If we judged all artists by their ability to sell millions of albums or what sized venues they played on tour what would that prove. Good music is good music no matter what.

The other thing that really bugs me is the numerous comments on Facebook from people who went to a FM show and praise SN for performing so well given what she is going through. It is like they think she is performing under duress. She didn't get fired so why do people assume she is the one going through hard times or whatever?

If Lindsey really and truly did something bad then they should have come out then and said so when he was fired vs making up lies about a tour delay.

Very well said. I agree whole heartedly.

[jmn3]

While loving her music for a huge part of my life, she wasn't what initially got me into Fleetwood Mac (that would've been Christine with Little Lies at the ripe old age of 6 and then Christine again with that banjo version of Say You Love Me, along with my parent's obsession with The Dance concert on TV when I was 16). The deeper I got into the band, the more I discovered all of the amazing songs and performances that Stevie put on (and Lindsey too of course). However, I've always thought she was simply an obnoxious person. Going back to The Dance era, I think during Behind the Music she compares being in Fleetwood Mac to being in the Army. Even as a stupid teenage boy who didn't know squat, I just felt that was such an overdramatic and eye rolling comment to make.

The Destiny Rules documentary did the woman no favors in my view - but once the Say You Will tour was long over and she went on to bash Lindsey for the album and tour, I really lost any respect I had for her. As she keeps getting older, she honestly just comes across to me as a bigger and bigger narciscistic jerk. She hates Lindsey, hates being in Fleetwood Mac, until she needs a huge fat paycheck. Face it, without The Dance and the insane popularity generated during that time, none of them would have made the money they did over the last 21 years. I was always able to look past their personal crap and enjoy the music which I did and still do love - but what went down since Christine came back, starting with Stevie's refusal to record ANYTHING with the band that gave her everything, has soured me for good on her.

She has become a bitter old woman who like most narcissists, finds a way to make every single event in some way about them. She's always being wronged by some big bad bully (be it Mick, Lindsey, producers, lovers, you name it). She's over-the-top dramatic all the time. She latches on to whatever or whomever is "cool" at the moment in some desperate attempt to remain relevant.

And while I love the music, it has impacted my enjoyment. I've found myself skipping over songs or turning stations when she comes on. It's stupid - Lindsey not being in Fleetwood Mac has done nothing for me except save me a couple hundo on show tickets - but for whatever reason, this year has been the absolute final straw. I know a lot of people here are hoping that this all leads to a huge "Dance Pt 2" reunion with Lindsey. I don't want that nor will I bother with it if it happened (I doubt it...not enough time left in the game for the wounds to heal and make it something interesting - they did that once already in 1997).

[Hawkeye]

I haven’t been active on The Ledge for a while, but I need to vent about this.
I cannot believe Stevie would break up the band, especially now. It’s nearing the end for them and Christine finally came back, no one thought that would ever happen. I mean really Stevie!? It’s like she’s giving all the devoted fans the middle finger. What a selfies b****. According to Lindsey, he did everything he could to try to make things work but Stevie wasn’t having it. I would be so pissed if I was Christine. I would have threatened to quit if I was her. I’m sure she came back with the intention of the classic lineup going out together.


Really????? You felt the need to start this thread? Considering you typed up this topic, you must have eyes.

And let me clarify this annoyed response is not a cry against “negativity.” I’m all for this forum being a place to vent about what’s gone down the past year. People have plenty of just reasons to be upset.

But the concept that someone felt the need to make this thread to me just had to be called out. I feel like some people on this board crave attention way too much, which ironically is the very root of what drives Stevie these days. Some Stevie haters have so much in common with the woman herself.

[Hawkeye]

I have no trouble at all listening to Stevie's music (unless I happen to hate the song). All the less savory aspects of her actions have no influence on my need to hear the songs in the car, at the gym, at work, wherever.

What has changed for me — and it's due more to her tiresomeness than to her ego — is that I don't want to listen to her talk anymore. I used to love hearing her talk. In the old days, I listened over and over to every radio interview she gave. My favorites were the Jim Ladd Innerviews from 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, and 1986. I loved the way she talked and the things she said—how she framed her story. (For example, listen to her take on the love that the members had for one another and how that affected their performances in the 1979 Innerview, or the stories she told Mark and Brian or Mary Turner in 1994 about her professional fears.)

But for several years now, she just rankles me. What used to be always charming is now sometimes charmless. Occasionally, she still pulls out the old carefree, funny Stevie ("I like painting. . . right, houses"). But most of the time she comes across as long-winded, preachy, and shrill. (Did you watch her Australian 20/20 with Chrissie Hynde?) She used to be trite and cute. Now she's often trite and embarrassing—the Sylvia Browne of rock. She too often sounds bitter or cranky about something or other when she tells a story. What's her problem with life, anyway? That she's getting older and no longer looks like her 29-year-old self? Am I insensitive not to feel sorry for her on that count? Would she have preferred the alternative?

The part I highlighted is actually the core of my attitude towards her, but from a fans perspective. I’ll take all of her flaws over the alternative and I’m very greatful for that. Especially when her flaws create excellent outcomes for many fans, at least the ones that matter, not the “jukebox and beer” we would not have the inclredinle Out of the Cradle 2 tour that we currently have without her selfishness.


I honestly like Stevie more after the past year. What balls she has. She’s developing the Neil Young approach of “fu** what my fans want, I care what I want” the only tragedy is she didn’t make this transition in attitude much earlier.

And that is a very well known fact amongst Neil Young fans, he’ll say it himself in a much nicer way obviously. And yes I know it would be better if she adapted his attitude towards making tons of new music this millennium but I’ll Take what I can.

[cbBen]

And that is a very well known fact amongst Neil Young fans, he’ll say it himself in a much nicer way obviously. And yes I know it would be better if she adapted his attitude towards making tons of new music this millennium but I’ll Take what I can.

There's a big difference here: Neil often treated Buffalo Springfield and CSN badly (reneging on commitments and so forth), but he never pulled a power play to get a bandmate fired (leaving aside backing musicians like Dallas Taylor).

When he had a problem with Crosby because Crosby was a junkie, rather than lobby for Crosby's firing (which would have been more than justified), he left CSNY himself – exiting with that biting line in the song "Thrasher": "they were just dead weight to me" (which he later said came out harsher than he had intended but was too good to change*)

He also never gave bad publicity to his ex-bandmates. He took the heat for being the bad actor.

*I wonder whether the same holds with Lindsey and "shacking up is all you want to do" from "Go Your Own Way."

[TheWildHeart67]

Bump. Uuugh.

[jbrownsjr]

While loving her music for a huge part of my life, she wasn't what initially got me into Fleetwood Mac (that would've been Christine with Little Lies at the ripe old age of 6 and then Christine again with that banjo version of Say You Love Me, along with my parent's obsession with The Dance concert on TV when I was 16). The deeper I got into the band, the more I discovered all of the amazing songs and performances that Stevie put on (and Lindsey too of course). However, I've always thought she was simply an obnoxious person. Going back to The Dance era, I think during Behind the Music she compares being in Fleetwood Mac to being in the Army. Even as a stupid teenage boy who didn't know squat, I just felt that was such an overdramatic and eye rolling comment to make.

The Destiny Rules documentary did the woman no favors in my view - but once the Say You Will tour was long over and she went on to bash Lindsey for the album and tour, I really lost any respect I had for her. As she keeps getting older, she honestly just comes across to me as a bigger and bigger narciscistic jerk. She hates Lindsey, hates being in Fleetwood Mac, until she needs a huge fat paycheck. Face it, without The Dance and the insane popularity generated during that time, none of them would have made the money they did over the last 21 years. I was always able to look past their personal crap and enjoy the music which I did and still do love - but what went down since Christine came back, starting with Stevie's refusal to record ANYTHING with the band that gave her everything, has soured me for good on her.

She has become a bitter old woman who like most narcissists, finds a way to make every single event in some way about them. She's always being wronged by some big bad bully (be it Mick, Lindsey, producers, lovers, you name it). She's over-the-top dramatic all the time. She latches on to whatever or whomever is "cool" at the moment in some desperate attempt to remain relevant.

And while I love the music, it has impacted my enjoyment. I've found myself skipping over songs or turning stations when she comes on. It's stupid - Lindsey not being in Fleetwood Mac has done nothing for me except save me a couple hundo on show tickets - but for whatever reason, this year has been the absolute final straw. I know a lot of people here are hoping that this all leads to a huge "Dance Pt 2" reunion with Lindsey. I don't want that nor will I bother with it if it happened (I doubt it...not enough time left in the game for the wounds to heal and make it something interesting - they did that once already in 1997).

This is fantastic and covers so much of how I feel. I still do listen to her music to remember the person that I used to respect. But wow, this post is fantastic.

[Storms123]

There will be a Blu-Ray or DVD (maybe even an album), and perhaps yet another tour. It may end up amounting to over $12 million.

I really don’t think we see new music out of this crew. Very much has a “one and done” type feel to it. Particularly as they change the set list, and not for the better

[Hawkeye]

I did change the channel on the radio when SDMHA came on on my way home from Lindsey’s show Tuesday (my ocd pre wants me from ever changing the channel on the Mac members when they come on the radio, so this was a big deal! )Didn’t feel it was appropriate leaving his incredible show to be listening to the biggest hit of the woman that screwed Him over. But just that day. That’s the extent to my ability to listen to any music being effected by her actions.

[sodascouts]

She honestly just comes across to me as a bigger and bigger narciscistic jerk. She hates Lindsey, hates being in Fleetwood Mac, until she needs a huge fat paycheck. Face it, without The Dance and the insane popularity generated during that time, none of them would have made the money they did over the last 21 years.

Exactly. She acts like she never needed Fleetwood Mac, but look at the audiences she was getting in 1994 versus what she was getting in 1998 and the truth is revealed. Guess who was an essential partner in making that happen? LINDSEY.

Now, 20 years later, she can make good money without the Mac, but still not AS good. She's not just doing them a favor with her participation in the tour. Any informed fan knows their revived popularity in 1997, with Lindsey's help, has led to this point. However, the way Stevie behaves indicates that she has rewritten history to cast Lindsey as an evil villain who has brought nothing but grief into her life.

David tired of listening to Stevie speak years ago, but I enjoyed it until recently, when I realized how much of what she says is either a deliberate lie or self-aggrandizing self-delusion. Then, it becomes unbearable. I do not hate her, but I do not respect her. Unless she makes things right with Lindsey, the black mark against her will always be an ugly stripe across the glass through which I look upon her.

[elle]

Christine did write for the new album. And they weren't old demos. I give her kudos for writing while in England. (ITM and BM)

yes Chris is still creative and she's wasting the time she doesn't have on the stupid nostalgia cashgrab.

i don't want Lindsey to EVER go back to wasting his time with the Mac if Stevie is still in it. she already made him waste 2 decades now. but however much i cannot wait for several more LB varied solo albums, and i hope he opens up to collaborations with some REALLY COOL artists (vs the commercial pop flavor of the day), i would also love it if both McVies blow off the narcissist duo as soon as possible and join Lindsey for some new music and touring. i'm sure that would be healing for all 3 of them. plus BuckVie still owes UK a tour leg.

[jbrownsjr]

yes Chris is still creative and she's wasting the time she doesn't have on the stupid nostalgia cashgrab.

i don't want Lindsey to EVER go back to wasting his time with the Mac if Stevie is still in it. she already made him waste 2 decades now. but however much i cannot wait for several more LB varied solo albums, and i hope he opens up to collaborations with some REALLY COOL artists (vs the commercial pop flavor of the day), i would also love it if both McVies blow off the narcissist duo as soon as possible and join Lindsey for some new music and touring. i'm sure that would be healing for all 3 of them. plus BuckVie still owes UK a tour leg.

If Christine does another album w/ LB, I'll die a happy man. I put the album on yesterday and it just keeps getting better.

[sodascouts]

Would Christine really want to record with a man who has sued her?

I mean, I hope so, but I don't think it's likely.

[Storms123]

Would Christine really want to record with a man who has sued her?

I mean, I hope so, but I don't think it's likely.

I personally don’t think Christine should get a pass in this, but if anyone is smart enough to understand separation of business and personal I think it’s Christine and John. Btw, there is no way any member of that band or that management team was blindsided by that lawsuit. They knew exactly the ramifications of their actions when they put this farce into play.

[HomerMcvie]

Would Christine really want to record with a man who has sued her?

I mean, I hope so, but I don't think it's likely.

Look what she did to Bob Welch, who was suing her!

[SteveMacD]

yes Chris is still creative and she's wasting the time she doesn't have on the stupid nostalgia cashgrab.
You mean the same stupid nostalgia cashgrab Lindsey would be doing if he hadn’t been fired?

I imagine she and Neil will probably have some kind of collaboration.

[David]

You mean the same stupid nostalgia cashgrab Lindsey would be doing if he hadn’t been fired? I don't think he would have continued indefinitely with greatest hits tours and no new albums (or other creative band projects). You're drawing a false equivalence between them. But the difference is that, while he would acquiesce reluctantly to yet another greatest hits tour and no album, she would positively revel in it. Have no doubt that he would have reached his departure point on his own, big machine or no big machine. You've reminded us yourself a million times how little he thought (and was willing to keep quiet about) the East West thingies.

Really, though, cash grab isn't the issue. Writing something new is the issue. He has it all over her in that department, although I guess you could argue that she's a lot more creative than he is in other media, like TV. (I of course give her all props for In Your Dreams in 2011.)

I imagine she and Neil will probably have some kind of collaboration. They're by way of collaborating now. Oh, you mean they plan to write some songs together? No. They won't. They may have struck up a friendship on tour (or not). But he's a long way from becoming a Dave Stewart or a Sandy Stewart in her life.

[bwboy]

I don't think he would have continued indefinitely with greatest hits tours and no new albums (or other creative band projects). You're drawing a false equivalence between them.

They're by way of collaborating now. Oh, you mean they plan to write some songs together? No. They won't. They may have struck up a friendship on tour (or not). But he's a long way from becoming a Dave Stewart or a Sandy Stewart in her life.

David, just to clarify, Steve was referring to Christine and Neil, not Stevie.

Also, regardless of Lindsey's desire to record new music with FM, the lawsuit clearly shows he wanted to be part of the cash grab tour, which is the point Steve was making.

[jmn3]

This is fantastic and covers so much of how I feel. I still do listen to her music to remember the person that I used to respect. But wow, this post is fantastic.

Thanks. Sometimes it feels good to put feelings like that into words. It really has no relevant impact on my life aside from the fact that the whole nonsense of the last year simply tarnishes a band that I would consider my all-time favorite even though they barely have released more than a handful of their greatest hits in the time since I was born. Heck, I post-date the end of the Tusk Tour by a few months! Seeing what they've turned into in what is possibly their last go-around (reviews noting the highlights of the evening as Don't Dream It's Over and Free Fallin' :shrug:) just saddens me. Knowing Stevie and her ultimatum is the reason it's turned into this.....:(

That being said, no matter what I think of her antics, I listened to Gypsy earlier and man...what a hell of a song. I just have to listen to it and think pre-2018 thoughts.

[jmn3]

Exactly. She acts like she never needed Fleetwood Mac, but look at the audiences she was getting in 1994 versus what she was getting in 1998 and the truth is revealed. Guess who was an essential partner in making that happen? LINDSEY.

Now, 20 years later, she can make good money without the Mac, but still not AS good. She's not just doing them a favor with her participation in the tour. Any informed fan knows their revived popularity in 1997, with Lindsey's help, has led to this point. However, the way Stevie behaves indicates that she has rewritten history to cast Lindsey as an evil villain who has brought nothing but grief into her life.

David tired of listening to Stevie speak years ago, but I enjoyed it until recently, when I realized how much of what she says is either a deliberate lie or self-aggrandizing self-delusion. Then, it becomes unbearable. I do not hate her, but I do not respect her. Unless she makes things right with Lindsey, the black mark against her will always be an ugly stripe across the glass through which I look upon her.

Great point about 1994 vs. 1998....The Dance made Fleetwood Mac members "cool" again.

I'll give them all this - it took ALL 5 of them to make 1997 work and thus, the renewed popularity they have all enjoyed since (solo and as FM). Quite honestly, Campbell and Finn are benefiting from 1997 on this tour. It was the right time, perfect at 20 years since Rumors, riding the coattails of an incredibly successful Eagles reunion, with a huge chunk of their fanbase approaching peak earning potential and those people's children coming of age and discovering that their parent's music was actually worth a listen.

[Jondalar]

How quickly they forget -

Street Angel didn’t go Gold until after 1997. The Other Side of the Mirror didn’t go platinum until 1997. TimeSpace didn’t go platinum until 1997. And the only reason her Box Set went Gold in 1998 is because the Dance happened. The only reason Trouble went Gold in 2001 was also because of the Dance. She definitely needed Fleetwood Mac. Her solo career was over in 1994, when Street Angel couldn’t even go Gold and TimeSpace greatest barely made it to a Gold. The Dance which occurred in 1997 saved her career.

[SteveMacD]

How quickly they forget -

Street Angel didn’t go Gold until after 1997. The Other Side of the Mirror didn’t go platinum until 1997. TimeSpace didn’t go platinum until 1997. And the only reason her Box Set went Gold in 1998 is because the Dance happened. The only reason Trouble went Gold in 2001 was also because of the Dance. She definitely needed Fleetwood Mac. Her solo career was over in 1994, when Street Angel couldn’t even go Gold and TimeSpace greatest barely made it to a Gold. The Dance which occurred in 1997 saved her career.

Sadly, she still had the most respectable sales numbers of the lot. SA sold more than OOTC and “Time” combined.

They all needed the boost from “The Dance.” Given the changes at the label, I don’t know if any of them were viable enough to remain on a label if not for the reunion.

And, kudos to Stevie on building her brand and image after the 1997 makeover. She played her cards brilliantly.

[cbBen]

Story seems to be the same for Stevie, Lindsey, Pete Townshend, Glenn Frey, and others. Some initial solo success but, by the mid-nineties, it's clear the public has relatively little interest in them as solo artists; and so they return to the lucrative bands they had left.

Glenn and Pete stopped recording new original solo material after 1993 and, with the exception of Trouble In Shangri-La and In Your Dreams, Stevie did the same.

[Jondalar]

Sadly, she still had the most respectable sales numbers of the lot. SA sold more than OOTC and “Time” combined.

They all needed the boost from “The Dance.” Given the changes at the label, I don’t know if any of them were viable enough to remain on a label if not for the reunion.

And, kudos to Stevie on building her brand and image after the 1997 makeover. She played her cards brilliantly.

You missed the point.

[Jondalar]

Story seems to be the same for Stevie, Lindsey, Pete Townshend, Glenn Frey, and others. Some initial solo success but, by the mid-nineties, it's clear the public has relatively little interest in them as solo artists; and so they return to the lucrative bands they had left.

Glenn and Pete stopped recording new original solo material after 1993 and, with the exception of Trouble In Shangri-La and In Your Dreams, Stevie did the same.

Stevie’s albums stopped selling because of low quality. TOSOTM and Street Angel were embarrassing and neither produced a Too 10 hit. Iovine stopped producing her because she wouldn’t listen to him and then her career just tanked.

[ImpossibleHoney]

Stevie’s albums stopped selling because of low quality. TOSOTM and Street Angel were embarrassing and neither produced a Too 10 hit. Iovine stopped producing her because she wouldn’t listen to him and then her career just tanked.

"Tanked"?

I think you would be pretty hard pressed to find an artist, especially a female artist outside of Dolly Parton and Cher, that continues to record, tour and remain relevant as much as Stevie has. Both "In Your Dreams" and "24 Karat Gold" peaked within the Top 10. How is that "tanking" exactly? A lot has been said about her in the past year but, the one thing you cannot take away from her is her broad appeal and influence. Its no secret that FM would have hit the oldies circuit a long time ago without her.

I rarely ever jump into the fray on here because the arguing is pointless but, when I see just pure inaccuracy - I start feeling a little froggy.

[wilsonmac]

yes Chris is still creative and she's wasting the time she doesn't have on the stupid nostalgia cashgrab.

i don't want Lindsey to EVER go back to wasting his time with the Mac if Stevie is still in it. she already made him waste 2 decades now. but however much i cannot wait for several more LB varied solo albums, and i hope he opens up to collaborations with some REALLY COOL artists (vs the commercial pop flavor of the day), i would also love it if both McVies blow off the narcissist duo as soon as possible and join Lindsey for some new music and touring. i'm sure that would be healing for all 3 of them. plus BuckVie still owes UK a tour leg.

Can you guys imagine an album or couple of tracks with Ryan Adams or The War on Drugs? Just another reason I respect Lindsey as an artist. He knows great music.

Steve- Building her brand? Who cares. They are all rich. I myself don’t have access to there checking accounts balances, but i think Lindsey is doing just fine. He didn’t try to build himself falsely. He didnt have to. His legacy which is much more important, in my opinion will be the creation of music that will live forever. The respect of his peers, fellow writers, studio musicians, engineers, producers,etc in the music business. He will be remembered as a pioneer and a performer who can only be equaled by a select few. That’s a person i look up to.

Blake Mills released a new album this week called “Look”. The entire thing was recorded with a Roland Guitar synth. Who did that before him? Lindsey. This is the kind of respect he has. From people that matter

[Jondalar]

"Tanked"?

I think you would be pretty hard pressed to find an artist, especially a female artist outside of Dolly Parton and Cher, that continues to record, tour and remain relevant as much as Stevie has. Both "In Your Dreams" and "24 Karat Gold" peaked within the Top 10. How is that "tanking" exactly? A lot has been said about her in the past year but, the one thing you cannot take away from her is her broad appeal and influence. Its no secret that FM would have hit the oldies circuit a long time ago without her.

I rarely ever jump into the fray on here because the arguing is pointless but, when I see just pure inaccuracy - I start feeling a little froggy.

I don’t think you are actually paying attention to all the posts. The point is her career had tanked. Then the Dance happened in 1997 and brought her career back to life. She did need Fleetwood Mac. You need to read all the posts before you go off.

[sodascouts]

You missed the point.

When one can't refute a point, "miss it" and address something no one was debating! An all-too-frequently employed tactic by some.

[David]

And, kudos to Stevie on building her brand and image after the 1997 makeover. She played her cards brilliantly.
She really did do that beautifully. She had just begun to rebuild herself in 1996, with a series of public concerts and a Lifetime documentary and concert slated for broadcast—talking to the press again, getting her "look" done (including weight and hair), getting a little "I'm still cool" help from Courtney Love and Billy Corgan. 1997 with Fleetwood Mac pushed her right back to the top again (albeit an older audience this time around). And she took it and ran with it for several years, from 1998's work with Sheryl Crow for "Practical Magic" to the "Enchanted" box set and tour (which everyone loved). She kept it up with a series of one-up concerts, short tours (including the New Year's Eve shows in Anaheim), her 2001 eagerly awaited "Shangri-La" album (again which everybody liked), with a fine tour and cool TV spots on Rosie O'Donnell and the Blockbuster Music Awards—all of which fed of course by the Internet fan base.

As a self-promoter of her own strengths and her connection to people, she has it all over the other Fleetwood Macsters. Mick Fleetwood is every bit the drummer that Stevie is the songwriter—but while she's getting awards from BMI and Blockbuster for songwriting, he is . . . selling wine at Costco. I was going to say that it would be funny if it weren't so sad. But it IS funny.

And Christine's case was no less ridiculous than Mick's. I realize that personal anxieties and depression don't run on a schedule. But to completely ditch Fleetwood Mac coming off the reunion tour and some Grammy nominations for a Number 1 album was just . . . unbelievably bad planning. Just like the heart, I guess the psyche wants what it wants, and Christine wanted to curl into a fetal position in a Kent country manor at the most inopportune time.

Considering the "Say You Will" trials and tribulations, the in-fighting, the nonsense, I think Christine's 1998 departure dealt Fleetwood Mac a blow it never really recovered from (although the other four put up a game front). When she came back to the O2 for those shows, I think everyone (including Fleetwood Mac) got very excited because here was a chance to have another 1997 reunion—in 2014-15. This past year made everyone feel as if they were stuck on a hamster wheel. I think that's why the anger is at fever pitch.

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1244858]You mean the same stupid nostalgia cashgrab Lindsey would be doing if he hadn’t been fired?

Umm...you do know that it's not by choice. If it were up to LB they would have an album out before EVERY TOUR.

[HomerMcvie]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1244858]You mean the same stupid nostalgia cashgrab Lindsey would be doing if he hadn’t been fired?

Umm...you do know that it's not by choice. If it were up to LB they would have an album out before EVERY TOUR.

You can try and try, but you'll NEVER get him to admit that.:laugh::D:xoxo:

[secondhandchain]

While loving her music for a huge part of my life, she wasn't what initially got me into Fleetwood Mac (that would've been Christine with Little Lies at the ripe old age of 6 and then Christine again with that banjo version of Say You Love Me, along with my parent's obsession with The Dance concert on TV when I was 16). The deeper I got into the band, the more I discovered all of the amazing songs and performances that Stevie put on (and Lindsey too of course). However, I've always thought she was simply an obnoxious person. Going back to The Dance era, I think during Behind the Music she compares being in Fleetwood Mac to being in the Army. Even as a stupid teenage boy who didn't know squat, I just felt that was such an overdramatic and eye rolling comment to make.

The Destiny Rules documentary did the woman no favors in my view - but once the Say You Will tour was long over and she went on to bash Lindsey for the album and tour, I really lost any respect I had for her. As she keeps getting older, she honestly just comes across to me as a bigger and bigger narciscistic jerk. She hates Lindsey, hates being in Fleetwood Mac, until she needs a huge fat paycheck. Face it, without The Dance and the insane popularity generated during that time, none of them would have made the money they did over the last 21 years. I was always able to look past their personal crap and enjoy the music which I did and still do love - but what went down since Christine came back, starting with Stevie's refusal to record ANYTHING with the band that gave her everything, has soured me for good on her.

She has become a bitter old woman who like most narcissists, finds a way to make every single event in some way about them. She's always being wronged by some big bad bully (be it Mick, Lindsey, producers, lovers, you name it). She's over-the-top dramatic all the time. She latches on to whatever or whomever is "cool" at the moment in some desperate attempt to remain relevant.

And while I love the music, it has impacted my enjoyment. I've found myself skipping over songs or turning stations when she comes on. It's stupid - Lindsey not being in Fleetwood Mac has done nothing for me except save me a couple hundo on show tickets - but for whatever reason, this year has been the absolute final straw. I know a lot of people here are hoping that this all leads to a huge "Dance Pt 2" reunion with Lindsey. I don't want that nor will I bother with it if it happened (I doubt it...not enough time left in the game for the wounds to heal and make it something interesting - they did that once already in 1997).

What HE said.

[Jondalar]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1244858]You mean the same stupid nostalgia cashgrab Lindsey would be doing if he hadn’t been fired?

Umm...you do know that it's not by choice. If it were up to LB they would have an album out before EVERY TOUR.

Lindsey wanted to make new music. It’s not his fault the way things worked out.

[TheWILDheart]

Still love Stevie’s music and still listen to her whole catalogue regularly.

She’s annoyed me in recent years with her refusal to record with Fleetwood Mac, her weird ass notions about the modern music industry and her comments that making music doesn’t sell money. Remember that interview with Sandra Bernherd from the enchanted tour where she said that she would die if she wasn’t doing this? What happened to that lady? The lady that made music and performed because she would die if she didn’t? Not because she makes a heap of money from it. She went on for years about not recording without Christine and then when she did come back, she still refused.

I honestly feel sorry for her at times too because I think her creative juices have dried up completely. She hasn’t written anything new without help since 2002. All the new songs on IYD were co-writes. I just don’t think she can write like she used to, which must be a horrible feeling for someone who used to write everyday. But she’d never admit that and instead just talks rubbish to cover it up.

As for the current situation with Lindsey, I couldn’t really care less about that. We don’t know the full facts, not really. People are jumping to wild conclusions based on little tidbits of information. But whatever the truth is, I don’t even care really. It’s just yet another ridiculous drama in a long chain of ridiculous dramas that’s lasted for 50 years. Fleetwood Mac has never existed without its over the top soap opera BS. It’s exhausting.

[DownOnRodeo]

I know a lot of people here are hoping that this all leads to a huge "Dance Pt 2" reunion with Lindsey. I don't want that nor will I bother with it if it happened (I doubt it...not enough time left in the game for the wounds to heal and make it something interesting - they did that once already in 1997).

Those happily deluded people must first be holding out for a sequel to the movie TWISTER--complete with screenplay by a resurrected Michael Crichton and a new hit song by Lindsey and Stevie, recorded by having them kidnapped and chained to opposite sides of an abandoned room, with the apparently dead body of Irving Azoff lying on the ground between them, but who is revealed at the end to be alive and secretly recording everything.

[DownOnRodeo]

Mick Fleetwood is every bit the drummer that Stevie is the songwriter—but while she's getting awards from BMI and Blockbuster for songwriting, he is . . . selling wine at Costco. I was going to say that it would be funny if it weren't so sad. But it IS funny.

LOL, David.

And Christine's case was no less ridiculous than Mick's. I realize that personal anxieties and depression don't run on a schedule. But to completely ditch Fleetwood Mac coming off the reunion tour and some Grammy nominations for a Number 1 album was just . . . unbelievably bad planning. Just like the heart, I guess the psyche wants what it wants, and Christine wanted to curl into a fetal position in a Kent country manor at the most inopportune time.

Yes.
And keeping in mind that it was way back in the late 80s or something when she bought that manor house but just kept putting off retiring to there, THIS is what should have happened:

- They make the Tango In The Night album (or at least, Lindsey makes it for them)
- They heed Lindsey's advice and DON'T do their stupid drug-addled tour of madness
- They get lots of nice money from all the hit songs--album sales, singles, constant airplay to this day, advertising use, etc.
- Christine does her decade or so of retiring to the countryside
- Mick, Stevie, John, and Lindsey go through their own therapy and other processes
- Everyone is back on track and refreshed for a Dance reunion and a couple of decades of album-making/touring thereafter.

[jbrownsjr]

She really did do that beautifully. She had just begun to rebuild herself in 1996, with a series of public concerts and a Lifetime documentary and concert slated for broadcast—talking to the press again, getting her "look" done (including weight and hair), getting a little "I'm still cool" help from Courtney Love and Billy Corgan. 1997 with Fleetwood Mac pushed her right back to the top again (albeit an older audience this time around). And she took it and ran with it for several years, from 1998's work with Sheryl Crow for "Practical Magic" to the "Enchanted" box set and tour (which everyone loved). She kept it up with a series of one-up concerts, short tours (including the New Year's Eve shows in Anaheim), her 2001 eagerly awaited "Shangri-La" album (again which everybody liked), with a fine tour and cool TV spots on Rosie O'Donnell and the Blockbuster Music Awards—all of which fed of course by the Internet fan base.

As a self-promoter of her own strengths and her connection to people, she has it all over the other Fleetwood Macsters. Mick Fleetwood is every bit the drummer that Stevie is the songwriter—but while she's getting awards from BMI and Blockbuster for songwriting, he is . . . selling wine at Costco. I was going to say that it would be funny if it weren't so sad. But it IS funny.

And Christine's case was no less ridiculous than Mick's. I realize that personal anxieties and depression don't run on a schedule. But to completely ditch Fleetwood Mac coming off the reunion tour and some Grammy nominations for a Number 1 album was just . . . unbelievably bad planning. Just like the heart, I guess the psyche wants what it wants, and Christine wanted to curl into a fetal position in a Kent country manor at the most inopportune time.

Considering the "Say You Will" trials and tribulations, the in-fighting, the nonsense, I think Christine's 1998 departure dealt Fleetwood Mac a blow it never really recovered from (although the other four put up a game front). When she came back to the O2 for those shows, I think everyone (including Fleetwood Mac) got very excited because here was a chance to have another 1997 reunion—in 2014-15. This past year made everyone feel as if they were stuck on a hamster wheel. I think that's why the anger is at fever pitch.

They did put up a good front, but there it was. Buckingham Nicks. A good idea, but so much of their personal magic was lost. They did have some good moments in those years. However, the magic of Buckingham McVie 'glue' that kept the B/N magic alive wasn't there.

When I heard Stevie and Lindsey try to do Don't Stop w/ Stevie on lead, I was mortified. She completely ruins that song. Then they came back w/ Christine in London and the fans went absolutely crazy. Fleetwood Mac was no longer led by the B/N lie. And, if you listen to the BuckVie element once it's returned, you realize how necessary it is/was. That quirky keyboard/piano bluesy element in that song can't be done without her. It sounds generic, otherwise. Watching BuckVie in 2017 was pure magic that I didn't expect.

[Buster]

Men who make strong decisions: leaders

Women who make strong decisions: bitches

Also, not sure why OP feels sorry for Chris. She is complicit in all this, tinkling away at the keyboards, counting her cash, and ghosting Lindsey.

Do I dislike Stevie? No. But I do respect her a little less based on how she and the band have handled and spoken about the firing.

[secondhandchain]

Men who make strong decisions: leaders

Women who make strong decisions: bitches

Also, not sure why OP feels sorry for Chris. She is complicit in all this, tinkling away at the keyboards, counting her cash, and ghosting Lindsey.

Do I dislike Stevie? No. But I do respect her a little less based on how she and the band have handled and spoken about the firing.

Again with the misogyny bullsh. This has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman it has to do with that she’s become insufferable over the last few years

[KenshiMaster16]

Again with the misogyny bullsh. This has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman it has to do with that she’s become insufferable over the last few years

Bingo. Truth of the matter is I would be just as livid and hateful of anyone else had the roles been reversed. That decision ruined this band for me and it would've done so had Christine been ousted by John, John ousted by Mick or Stevie by Lindsey.

[sands of time]

Men who make strong decisions: leaders

Women who make strong decisions: bitches

Also, not sure why OP feels sorry for Chris. She is complicit in all this, tinkling away at the keyboards, counting her cash, and ghosting Lindsey.

Do I dislike Stevie? No. But I do respect her a little less based on how she and the band have handled and spoken about the firing.

No one is calling Mick a "leader" for the crap decision he made. A terrible decision is a terrible decision, regardless of the genitalia of the person making it.

[Jondalar]

I think Stevie’s selfish decision making has ruined Fleetwood Mac’s legacy. I don’t look at the band the same way. They only managed to make 5 albums of new material together. Ridiculous.

[lovethemac1]

Yes, me.

Because she is really easy to dislike now, and has been for the last decade or more.

And she ruined the band that I loved with all my heart.

[HomerMcvie]

Again with the misogyny bullsh. This has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman it has to do with that she’s become insufferable over the last few years

Buster says you're not allowed to dislike Old Goat Breath, okay, BECAUSE $he has a vagina, okay? #bustertoo

[elle]

Also, not sure why OP feels sorry for Chris. She is complicit in all this, tinkling away at the keyboards, counting her cash, and ghosting Lindsey.

Do I dislike Stevie? No. But I do respect her a little less based on how she and the band have handled and spoken about the firing.

not anymore.

[bombaysaffires]

what do you mean, not ghosting him anymore? :eek:

have they been in touch?? :eek:

[elle]

what do you mean

aha. come over on twitter.

[jbrownsjr]

not anymore.

It's true. Christine has reached out to LB. I heard it from a great source.

[jmn3]

aha. come over on twitter.

C’mon Elle anything more specific than that or at least a link to the tweet(s)in question?:wavey:

[lovethemac1]

aha. come over on twitter.

I looked and can't find anything, although I'm new to Twitter and not very savvy with it.

Any tips on where to look Elle?

[cbBen]

Would love to see Christine quit the band. It would serve them right.

[HomerMcvie]

Would love to see Christine quit the band. It would serve them right.

Absolutely.

As she should have, when all this sh*t went down.

[elle]

I looked and can't find anything, although I'm new to Twitter and not very savvy with it.

Any tips on where to look Elle?

yeah. many people from here going to upcoming meet & greets - they can ask LB and see what he wants to share, if anything.

[FuzzyPlum]

what do you mean, not ghosting him anymore? :eek:

have they been in touch?? :eek:

aha. come over on twitter.

It's true. Christine has reached out to LB. I heard it from a great source.


What? What's this? :shocked:
I've looked on Lindsey's Twitter and Christine's Twitter (pointless) and can't see anything. What are you talking about?
PS, I'm very impressed by the number of replies Lindsey's tweets are getting.

[sodascouts]

Those happily deluded people must first be holding out for a sequel to the movie TWISTER--complete with screenplay by a resurrected Michael Crichton and a new hit song by Lindsey and Stevie, recorded by having them kidnapped and chained to opposite sides of an abandoned room, with the apparently dead body of Irving Azoff lying on the ground between them, but who is revealed at the end to be alive and secretly recording everything.

By the way, forgot to say....

LOL at this!!!

[secondhandchain]

Absolutely.

As she should have, when all this sh*t went down.

To be honest with you, she's toast in the voice department, and it's just embarrassing now. The only thing they should have done is make one final album for the fans where she could have sounded better in the studio.

[SteveMacD]

To be honest with you, she's toast in the voice department, and it's just embarrassing now. The only thing they should have done is make one final album for the fans where she could have sounded better in the studio.

She should do what Lindsey’s doing now on “Surrender The Rain”…use a vocal modulation patch to sound 44 (or younger) again.

[HomerMcvie]

To be honest with you, she's toast in the voice department, and it's just embarrassing now. The only thing they should have done is make one final album for the fans where she could have sounded better in the studio.

I know. An album would have been the way to go out, but Old Goat Breath says they don't sell.

Maybe they should have called it a day after OWTS, rather than watch their skills deteriorate into nothing.

[jmn3]

I know. An album would have been the way to go out, but Old Goat Breath says they don't sell.

Maybe they should have called it a day after OWTS, rather than watch their skills deteriorate into nothing.

But then they wouldn't have been able to "have a moment" with the audience playing a Tom Petty solo song in the encore at a Fleetwood Mac concert. This whole year has been nauseating...

[HomerMcvie]

But then they wouldn't have been able to "have a moment" with the audience playing a Tom Petty solo song in the encore at a Fleetwood Mac concert. This whole year has been nauseating...

Ah. The karaoke moment. Cherished by every loser in the free world.

An absolutely DISGUSTING ending, to the ending of the band of our lives.

[secondhandchain]

Ah. The karaoke moment. Cherished by every loser in the free world.

An absolutely DISGUSTING ending, to the ending of the band of our lives.

The whole Tom Petty thing is cringe worthy. The only reason this is happening is old goat breath has all the power now. LB would have NEVER let that happen. Stevie saying a quick thing about it before a song? maybe. Oh and I never answered the question of this whole thread. My answer? Can't.Stand.Her.

[HomerMcvie]

The whole Tom Petty thing is cringe worthy. The only reason this is happening is old goat breath has all the power now. LB would have NEVER let that happen. Stevie saying a quick thing about it before a song? maybe. Oh and I never answered the question of this whole thread. My answer? Can't.Stand.Her.
Lindsey would have never allowed it. And the other three are f*cking schmucks for allowing the old goat to turn FM into her own band.

I think/hope that they now know(except the delusional OGB)how badly they f*cked up.

[jbrownsjr]

Lindsey would have never allowed it. And the other three are f*cking schmucks for allowing the old goat to turn FM into her own band.

I think/hope that they now know(except the delusional OGB)how badly they f*cked up.

Do you realize how many times $he's threatened them with her star power. $he's a big bully and that's that.

It's her band now.

[On Ice]

It pains me to say it, but I've been a bit of a "quiet dissenter" on the Stevie front, not admitting openly that my excitement and love for her in the present tense has completely left the building. I do however put on either of the 4 awesome box sets from the White album to Mirage and enjoy the "wonderous force of nature" that her beautiful voice once was. For me now it is more about the voice than her deplorable behaviour, but for a few moments here and there she just does not sound good, I don't know what people who are singing her praises actually hear, but it makes me want to crawl under my seat when I hear that droning tone her voice has become. I have not paid to see her in concert since the Say You Will Tour which had some decent moments. To add, not recording also did it for me- I've always thought that her wonderful backlog of material that has gone unused is a big problem with her legacy. Five hugely popular songs does not a legend make. I am also against her solo career being a catalyst for the rock and roll hall of fame- the glory ended after the Wild Heart and its been really spotty at best. So yes, I still love the 25-33 version of Stevie but the rest of it in hindsight, was a steady decline to the low she's at now.

[jmn3]

The whole Tom Petty thing is cringe worthy. The only reason this is happening is old goat breath has all the power now. LB would have NEVER let that happen. Stevie saying a quick thing about it before a song? maybe. Oh and I never answered the question of this whole thread. My answer? Can't.Stand.Her.

Lindsey absolutely would've never allowed such nonsense, nor SHOULD he nor Mick nor anyone else. I'm sorry, but Tom Petty (whose music I mostly love) has nothing to do with Fleetwood Mac. Mike Campbell being in the band for a few months, and Stevie's obsession with and handful of collaborations with him over 40 years does not justify this. And please, Tom playing Oh Well in concert is also not a legitimate tie-in that should have Free Fallin' in the setlist. Tom played Oh Well as a tribute to Peter and old school Fleetwood Mac due to their influence on him. When, at any point did Tom Petty influence Fleetwood mac in any way? But, Stevie can have her "moment" with the audience. Gag me. It's stuff like this that has soured me unbelievably on her (and the rest of what remains of this band).

[jmn3]

Five hugely popular songs does not a legend make. I am also against her solo career being a catalyst for the rock and roll hall of fame- the glory ended after the Wild Heart and its been really spotty at best. So yes, I still love the 25-33 version of Stevie but the rest of it in hindsight, was a steady decline to the low she's at now.

This right here. I'm not sure why her solo career justifies the RRHOF nod? But, I also don't understand half of the artists who are in the RRHOF already so I guess there's that. Her 'rock and roll' songs, especially post 1983, are few and far between.

[On Ice]

Agreed on the Free Falling being in the set list thing. A song dedication such as "this is for you Tom" would've sufficed- how about Storms, (although terribly sung) arguably her second to Silver Springs as her best ever song? An entire song in the set though is uncalled for and an insult to the early talent who deserved more than a nod. Dropping the only Bob Welch song and keeping this is absurd.

[jmn3]

Agreed on the Free Falling being in the set list thing. A song dedication such as "this is for you Tom" would've sufficed- how about Storms, (although terribly sung) arguably her second to Silver Springs as her best ever song? An entire song in the set though is uncalled for and an insult to the early talent who deserved more than a nod. Dropping the only Bob Welch song and keeping this is absurd.

When several reviews highlighted Don't Dream It's Over and Free Fallin' as pivotal moments during the shows, that's when I knew the wheels were completely off the cart.

Storms and Hypnotized (which Neal actually sounded good on TBH) were some of the most interesting aspects of this set. Having them both dropped while two non-Fleetwood Mac songs remain is appalling. They finally recognize Bob Welch after how many years of ignoring him, and then drop it altogether. Idiots.

[wilsonmac]

The whole Tom Petty thing is cringe worthy. The only reason this is happening is old goat breath has all the power now. LB would have NEVER let that happen. Stevie saying a quick thing about it before a song? maybe. Oh and I never answered the question of this whole thread. My answer? Can't.Stand.Her.

I agree. Makes my skin crawl. Artists (in this case a former one who has turned into a Vegas performer) who use the death of someone to promote themselves is the bottom for me. I am still months later struggling to see how anyone is behind this garbage.

[Nicks Fan]

There is a photo making the rounds on Social Media that someone created where it shows every single member of Fleetwood Mac including the new members and some people are using that photo to justify Lindsey's firing by pointing out the many members who have come and gone from FM. Yes FM has a long history of lineup changes but name anyone outside the 75-87 era that was either in the band for a substantial amount of time and or brought them success equal to or greater then the Rumors era.

To try to put Bob Brunning, Dave Walker, Bob Weston, etc in the same category as anyone from the 75-87 lineup is laughable. None of those guys contributed anything of real substance to the band as their time in the band was so brief. Who besides us die hard fans even knows anyone outside of the Rumours era (Peter Green and Bob Welch being the exception).

SN was the one who said Lindsey didn't want to play anything pre 75 and yet the ONLY Bob Welch song they were doing has since been dropped. Yet they have kept cover songs in and a very tacky tribute to Tom Petty when FM lost one of their own members (Danny Kirwan) just recently. You can't share a poster and go on and on about the various members and then turn around and accept a tribute to someone who was never a member of FM while ignoring someone who was a member.

The fact that people think it is ok that are doing this is pretty insulting.

As for SN being inducted in the RRHOF. I voted for her to get in but I will say that as a whole RRHOF is a joke. Many people are in there who have no business being in there when they are more deserving people who haven't been inducted (Pate Benetar, Tina Turner come to mind). SN solo career is is interesting to say the least. On one hand I do think she deserves to be there because she has allot of influence on some of today's stars and did have some big success in the 80's as a solo artist. I can see some people's point though regarding her actual sales and overall success when compared to other artists not inducted.

She had 1 number album and after that her albums continued to sell less and less. Yes she still had top 10 albums and successful tours but by 1991 her albums stopped selling big numbers. If it wasn't for the FM reunion in 97 I think none of her 90's work would have gone gold. She was headed for the state fair circuit until the big reunion. That isn't a dig just a fact.

I have always felt her solo albums were a mixed bag. Some truly fantastic music but then on the same CD some real duds. I think RAL has a lot of very cheesy 80's production on it but yet some of her songs on there are very good. My favorite album is TISL because allot of things were going on in my life at that time and I related to the music.

My least favorite album is her last CD as her voice was too nasal and I was disappointed that of all the demos she has out there that she chose to include another version of Twisted and a cover song by Vanessa Carlton.

Lindsey may not be a big name compared to her but at least he has something to say and isn't content to rest on the GH like she is doing with FM. They made such a big deal about honoring more then just the Rumors era and they have kept just 1 song in the set list from the pre 75 era that is actually a rare cut. Oh Well doesn't count because it has been done often enough since 75 that it isn't really an obscure song.

To me the band has ruined their legacy and whether they sell tickets or not the brand is tarnished and at the end of the day when all is said and done what people will remember is how it ended and not the great music that was made for 50 plus years.

[Jondalar]

There is a photo making the rounds on Social Media that someone created where it shows every single member of Fleetwood Mac including the new members and some people are using that photo to justify Lindsey's firing by pointing out the many members who have come and gone from FM. Yes FM has a long history of lineup changes but name anyone outside the 75-87 era that was either in the band for a substantial amount of time and or brought them success equal to or greater then the Rumors era.

To try to put Bob Brunning, Dave Walker, Bob Weston, etc in the same category as anyone from the 75-87 lineup is laughable. None of those guys contributed anything of real substance to the band as their time in the band was so brief. Who besides us die hard fans even knows anyone outside of the Rumours era (Peter Green and Bob Welch being the exception).

SN was the one who said Lindsey didn't want to play anything pre 75 and yet the ONLY Bob Welch song they were doing has since been dropped. Yet they have kept cover songs in and a very tacky tribute to Tom Petty when FM lost one of their own members (Danny Kirwan) just recently. You can't share a poster and go on and on about the various members and then turn around and accept a tribute to someone who was never a member of FM while ignoring someone who was a member.

The fact that people think it is ok that are doing this is pretty insulting.

As for SN being inducted in the RRHOF. I voted for her to get in but I will say that as a whole RRHOF is a joke. Many people are in there who have no business being in there when they are more deserving people who haven't been inducted (Pate Benetar, Tina Turner come to mind). SN solo career is is interesting to say the least. On one hand I do think she deserves to be there because she has allot of influence on some of today's stars and did have some big success in the 80's as a solo artist. I can see some people's point though regarding her actual sales and overall success when compared to other artists not inducted.

She had 1 number album and after that her albums continued to sell less and less. Yes she still had top 10 albums and successful tours but by 1991 her albums stopped selling big numbers. If it wasn't for the FM reunion in 97 I think none of her 90's work would have gone gold. She was headed for the state fair circuit until the big reunion. That isn't a dig just a fact.

I have always felt her solo albums were a mixed bag. Some truly fantastic music but then on the same CD some real duds. I think RAL has a lot of very cheesy 80's production on it but yet some of her songs on there are very good. My favorite album is TISL because allot of things were going on in my life at that time and I related to the music.

My least favorite album is her last CD as her voice was too nasal and I was disappointed that of all the demos she has out there that she chose to include another version of Twisted and a cover song by Vanessa Carlton.

Lindsey may not be a big name compared to her but at least he has something to say and isn't content to rest on the GH like she is doing with FM. They made such a big deal about honoring more then just the Rumors era and they have kept just 1 song in the set list from the pre 75 era that is actually a rare cut. Oh Well doesn't count because it has been done often enough since 75 that it isn't really an obscure song.

To me the band has ruined their legacy and whether they sell tickets or not the brand is tarnished and at the end of the day when all is said and done what people will remember is how it ended and not the great music that was made for 50 plus years.

Stevie screwed up royally. You can't put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. That's what a lot of fans are trying to do. I think what has been done has caused more damage than people want to admit.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree. Makes my skin crawl. Artists (in this case a former one who has turned into a Vegas performer) who use the death of someone to promote themselves is the bottom for me. I am still months later struggling to see how anyone is behind this garbage.

She has always used someone's death to promote herself or make these kinds of situations about her. She's a complete narcissist, in this regard.

She hung out with Prince for a few hours and acted like they were friends for years and years and years...

[Street_Dreamer]

This tour could quite possibly be the last tour for Fleetwood Mac. That's what bothers me. This could have been a big sendoff and a positive end for a band that's notorious for drama. It would have been a storybook ending. Instead we have this. It's quite sad and pretty insulting for the band to add two new members in its twilight. Mick has always been a money mark so it's not surprising that he didn't have a backbone when it came to Stevie.

I don't really have any other feelings that haven't already been said in this thread. It just makes me sad. Fleetwood Mac has been and always be a huge part of my life. This isn't the ending that should have happened.

[luminol]

I do, however, take issue with the band for carrying on without Lindsey. After 1997, the band had no business excluding any Rumours member willing and able to participate.

This tour could quite possibly be the last tour for Fleetwood Mac. That's what bothers me. This could have been a big sendoff and a positive end for a band that's notorious for drama. It would have been a storybook ending. Instead we have this. It's quite sad and pretty insulting for the band to add two new members in its twilight. Mick has always been a money mark so it's not surprising that he didn't have a backbone when it came to Stevie.

I don't really have any other feelings that haven't already been said in this thread. It just makes me sad. Fleetwood Mac has been and always be a huge part of my life. This isn't the ending that should have happened.

I agree with all of this 100%.

It's really deplorable how she acted and that the others allowed it.

I will never listen to their music with the same enjoyment again.

It's a tragic ending to what should have been a magical final tour for THE FANS with the most successful lineup in their history. Instead they're a joke. And I feel sorry for Mike Campbell being dragged into it because of Stevie's inability to deal with grief and obsession with Tom Petty and his band.

It's all pretty pathetic. Shame on her (and Mick, John, and Chris).

[Nicks Fan]

For me it is the hypocrisy of the fans that has really pissed me off. SN delays tours and albums or decides not to participate and it is fine. Then when they allege Lindsey wanted a delay oh no we can't have that. The way they make excuses for her is pretty ridiculous.


Facebook is really bad too. SN worshipers keep posting pictures or videos saying things like "She finally had enough" or saying things about her performing so well given what she is going through. With all due respect to the victims in the #metoo movement SN is not nor was ever a battered or beaten woman. I do not like this idea that she is anyway a victim in the me too movement. Not to say Lindsey is blameless for things said and done in their relationship but it was two way street in that they both antagonized each other over the years and pushed each other buttons.

IMO I think she is just bitter that others from her past have moved on and have a wife and or kids and she has none of that. I also think she is bitter that she isn't selling millions of albums anymore and Lindsey is making music and having a good time. He may not be selling millions but he is certainly not hurting. She seems angry that her last two albums came and went and were not big sellers. I also still think she has lost her creativity and doesn't want to make a new CD because Chris and Lindsey would have brought something new and she likely would have had to mine her demos instead of writing anything new.

He deserves more credit for saving this band on more then one occasion. Tango was their biggest seller since Rumors and he is the reason for that. SN was barely there so it isn't like she can claim she contributed countless hours in the studio to help arrange and or produce the tracks.

At the end of the day real fans know the truth about who put in the most work and time on their most successful albums even if some people want to claim otherwise.

I can't wait to see his interview on Saturday. Then I will sit back and watch his haters try to spin whatever he might say re his firing. No matter what he says or does I have accepted that they won't change their opinions of him or his wife. They badmouthed him for not speaking re what happened and then when he did say what was what they still were not happy.

[TheWildHeart67]

I like Stevie and I like Lindsey. I don't obsess about their personal lives or disagreements with each other.

[jbrownsjr]

I like Stevie and I like Lindsey. I don't obsess about their personal lives or disagreements with each other.

Well, I agree with that. However, this became a HUGE business disagreement. I have never bought the love affair between them. It's been BS for years. And the people that feel that FMac is SN/LB, have no clue what Fleetwood Mac is all about.

Having said that, holy cow what a nasty, disgusting thing to do to someone. The part that bothers me the most is: The Ghosting.

That actually hurt me to hear it. Because I put myself in his shoes and thought wow. How hurtful that must have been. What those first few weeks or even months were like. Knowing people you have spent 40 years with .. icing you.

And to top it off, the person you elevated to stardom, shoves it in your face and gets you fired with the promoter. That just utterly disgusts me. If she has a soul at all she should be ashamed.

[Nicks Fan]

Well, I agree with that. However, this became a HUGE business disagreement. I have never bought the love affair between them. It's been BS for years. And the people that feel that FMac is SN/LB, have no clue what Fleetwood Mac is all about.

Having said that, holy cow what a nasty, disgusting thing to do to someone. The part that bothers me the most is: The Ghosting.

That actually hurt me to hear it. Because I put myself in his shoes and thought wow. How hurtful that must have been. What those first few weeks or even months were like. Knowing people you have spent 40 years with .. icing you.

And to top it off, the person you elevated to stardom, shoves it in your face and gets you fired with the promoter. That just utterly disgusts me. If she has a soul at all she should be ashamed.

I don't care if people go to the shows. I am just annoyed at people who went on and on about the pre 75 material when in the past they were the same ones saying no one wants to hear that stuff as it isn't well known. I suspect allot the vicious fans on social media don't even own any albums pre 75, have never bought a FM album or any band solo stuff unless SN was on it. If you are only going to see FM because of SN (Not saying everyone is but allot of people are) then in my opinion it shows such disrespect for the other members past and present and their music.

[bombaysaffires]

The first 3-4 minutes or so of this interview with Tom himself gives a clear sense of what he would think about this tour... Wish Stevie had listened to him more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4B3tivQqGs

[cbBen]

I can't wait to see his interview on Saturday. Then I will sit back and watch his haters try to spin whatever he might say re his firing.

I predict a musical performance but no interview.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree 100 percent. Plus the fact that all of a sudden some people are the biggest fans of the pre 75 material when they likely don't even own a single a FM album that doesn't have SN on it. FM is more then just SN and FM. Sad that it took his firing to see that some people who claim to be FM fans are really SN fans and as long as she is there they will accept anything but when she goes they will too.

Are their any decent people left on the planet? :confused:

[luminol]

The first 3-4 minutes or so of this interview with Tom himself gives a clear sense of what he would think about this tour... Wish Stevie had listened to him more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4B3tivQqGs

Wow. Yes. Man I miss him.

She is a parody of herself, still wearing those tired platforms, shawls, and fringe-draped tambourines. Same stage act for decades. Phoning it in.

[bwboy]

Are their any decent people left on the planet? :confused:

:wavey:

I think I'm a decent guy. Seeing FM live doesn't make me a bad person.

[Buster]

Ah. The karaoke moment. Cherished by every loser in the free world.

An absolutely DISGUSTING ending, to the ending of the band of our lives.

LOL- so many things to say about this clown calling other people losers.

[Buster]

:wavey:

I think I'm a decent guy. Seeing FM live doesn't make me a bad person.

The fact you even had to say this shows what a cesspool this board has become. Bunch of bitter people with no lives casting judgement on those who do.

[HomerMcvie]

LOL- so many things to say about this clown calling other people losers.

Yet another personal attack from Buster. There's a surprise.

Moderators???

[sasja]

Ignore is your friend, your majesty, don't forget :)

For me personally, the woman's been hard to stomach since about 1990 so I just avoided her mostly, no skin off of my back. It's just her recent foray into jerk-territory that gets my goat ( so to speak) and brought me back, as I have a hard time with injustice in general. And with jerks :)

[SteveMacD]

But then they wouldn't have been able to "have a moment" with the audience playing a Tom Petty solo song in the encore at a Fleetwood Mac concert. This whole year has been nauseating...
Ah. The karaoke moment. Cherished by every loser in the free world.

An absolutely DISGUSTING ending, to the ending of the band of our lives.
The whole Tom Petty thing is cringe worthy. The only reason this is happening is old goat breath has all the power now. LB would have NEVER let that happen. Stevie saying a quick thing about it before a song? maybe. Oh and I never answered the question of this whole thread. My answer? Can't.Stand.Her.
Fleetwood Mac has traditionally done songs from the new members’ past, like “Get Like You Used To Be,” DLMDA, and “Tear It Up.” Mike produced and played guitar on the original Tom Petty version. Doing solo songs is also nothing new for Fleetwood Mac. They’ve done “Go Insane,” “Stand Back,” and HAEWAFY. Stevie recorded “Free Fallin’” as a solo artist. Fleetwood Mac playing “Free Fallin’” is more credible/less embarrassing than, say, “Farmer’s Daughter.”

[HomerMcvie]

Fleetwood Mac has traditionally done songs from the new members’ past, like “Get Like You Used To Be,” DLMDA, and “Tear It Up.” Mike produced and played guitar on the original Tom Petty version. Doing solo songs is also nothing new for Fleetwood Mac. They’ve done “Go Insane,” “Stand Back,” and HAEWAFY. Stevie recorded “Free Fallin’” as a solo artist. Fleetwood Mac playing “Free Fallin’” is more credible/less embarrassing than, say, “Farmer’s Daughter.”

Again, you need to apply for a PR job with them.

I mean, you're in the business, I'm sure they'd hire you.

[brucewayne]

Without Christine, Stevie, AND Lindsey in the band, then I really just don't care.

For me to stay a fan, the band needs all three of them. They survived Rumours but they can't make it work now? Yea, then no thanks, I'm out too.

Thanks Stevie! And you used to be my favorite.

[vivfox]

SteveMacD,again, you need to apply for a PR job with them. I mean, you're in the business, I'm sure they'd hire you.
Then we'd have Robert Pollard as the new guitarist and singer instead of Neil Finn. Would that have made you more happy? (Said totally tongue in cheek):]

[SteveMacD]

Then we'd have Robert Pollard as the new guitarist and singer instead of Neil Finn. Would that have made you more happy? (Said totally tongue in cheek):]

OH HELL NO!!! :laugh:

In all seriousness, Bob would NEVER consider that. He’d have two albums of new material ready to while they were figuring out setlists.

[lovethemac1]

After that interview this morning, EVEN MORE disappointment in her now.

[HomerMcvie]

Then we'd have Robert Pollard as the new guitarist and singer instead of Neil Finn. Would that have made you more happy? (Said totally tongue in cheek):]

I'm giving you TEN gold stars!:wavey::wavey::wavey:

[The Chain]

Stevie recorded “Free Fallin’” as a solo artist. Fleetwood Mac playing “Free Fallin’” is more credible/less embarrassing than, say, “Farmer’s Daughter.”

:laugh: if anything is embarrassing it's Stevie's cover of Free Fallin. One of the few Enchanted tracks I skip.
Farmer's Daughter, seriously? It's a wonderful exercise in minimalist production, and those harmonies are among some of the most beautiful they've ever put on record. How is Fleetwood Mac covering a Brian Wilson penned tune, one of Lindsey's biggest inspirations, not credible?:confused: Not saying Stevie singing her cover w FM isn't credible, just fail to see how it is more-so/less embarrassing than Farmer's Daughter, as you put it. After all, a band covering a tune by an older group that was a huge inspiration on their own writing is a lot more standard than covering a tune from a contemporary/friend.

[bwboy]

:laugh: if anything is embarrassing it's Stevie's cover of Free Fallin. One of the few Enchanted tracks I skip.
Farmer's Daughter, seriously? It's a wonderful exercise in minimalist production, and those harmonies are among some of the most beautiful they've ever put on record. How is Fleetwood Mac covering a Brian Wilson penned tune, one of Lindsey's biggest inspirations, not credible?:confused:

I think Stevie's recording of Free Falling is horrible, too. Live, however, it was stunning.