Fleetwood Mac /BuckMcVie.......10 tracks.

[BLY]

So I was listening to this amazing album today and realized the reason it only has 10 tracks is because Lindsey kept it open for 3 or 4 Stevie tracks. Oh what this album could have been......

[HomerMcvie]

So I was listening to this amazing album today and realized the reason it only has 10 tracks is because Lindsey kept it open for 3 or 4 Stevie tracks. Oh what this album could have been......

It's the best thing since Mirage! Old Goat Stank really screwed the final chapter of FM to the end, by not recording, firing Lindsey, and being a bitter old ass.

But i love me some BuckVie. I've not taken it out of my car rotation since it came out, June 9th of 17. Yes, I remember the date. I had 14 days to learn every song by heart, for the second show of the tour. :D

[Kubrick2788]

Not that long ago I started fiddling with the track list and added Belle Fleur, Lady, The Dealer, If You Were My Love, and Sad Angel/Miss Fantasy to replace some Lindsey songs. 15 tracks may be a bit heavy, but it makes me happy.

[BLY]

Not that long ago I started fiddling with the track list and added Belle Fleur, Lady, The Dealer, If You Were My Love, and Sad Angel/Miss Fantasy to replace some Lindsey songs. 15 tracks may be a bit heavy, but it makes me happy.



I like your additions but I would not replace any of Buckinghams songs from this album. His songs were so obviously open for Stevie’s contribution.

[HomerMcvie]

I've never cared for Lay Down For Free. It's too repetitious, and sounds like a drum machine, instead of Mick.

[BLY]

I've never cared for Lay Down For Free. It's too repetitious, and sounds like a drum machine, instead of Mick.


Really? I know you said you have had it on repeat play since release so I can’t say “ Give it another listen” 😎 but....... I just love the vocals so I guess I most be a bit deaf to the drums.

[dontlookdown]

Or it could just be that great albums are usually just 10 or 11 tracks.

And there are a few McVie clunkers on this album. I wish Lindsey had de-cheesed a few of hers.
But I do agree, if you imagine Stevie's harmonies on several songs, it could have been much better.
It's a good album, but it didn't get under my skin the way I had hoped it would.

[BLY]

Or it could just be that great albums are usually just 10 or 11 tracks.

And there are a few McVie clunkers on this album. I wish Lindsey had de-cheesed a few of hers.
But I do agree, if you imagine Stevie's harmonies on several songs, it could have been much better.
It's a good album, but it didn't get under my skin the way I had hoped it would.


I love all of this album...even the “cheese” stuff. Its how I feel.😎

[HomerMcvie]

Or it could just be that great albums are usually just 10 or 11 tracks.

And there are a few McVie clunkers on this album. I wish Lindsey had de-cheesed a few of hers.
But I do agree, if you imagine Stevie's harmonies on several songs, it could have been much better.
It's a good album, but it didn't get under my skin the way I had hoped it would.
If anything, I'd say Lindsey is the one who cheesed it up! Sounds like Mirage production to me.

[lennonfan]

pop pros, those 2.
I still feel sometimes it just should have been called a Mac album and that Stevie just didn't want to be on it. Basically, that's what it was.

...and seriously, sorry, I like Stevie I really do (or used to) but in 43 years I have never, ever felt she was the be all of that band. ..far from it, actually, if I had to choose a member who 'had to go'...it would be her.

[Murrow]

So I was listening to this amazing album today and realized the reason it only has 10 tracks is because Lindsey kept it open for 3 or 4 Stevie tracks. Oh what this album could have been......

Given that she didn't show up I was more disappointed that they didn't find a few more Chris-led tracks to fill up the gaps. They must have had some kicking around given how much they were said to have been doing together.

[BLY]

Given that she didn't show up I was more disappointed that they didn't find a few more Chris-led tracks to fill up the gaps. They must have had some kicking around given how much they were said to have been doing together.



I agree and I’m sure they did. I think it was intentional to leave it open. Stevie would have added four songs. I also agree it should have still been called a Fleetwood Mac album because that is what it is.

[jeets2000]

It might be completely naive of me, but mentally I haven't completely closed the door to BuckVie 2 being a possibility. I know there's the whole issue of the lawsuit, and the machinations of that will likely be the determining factor in Lindsey's relationship with the individual members of the band from here on out. But part of me wonders if Chris doesn't feel just a wee bit guilty about how everything played out and sympathetic to her old friend. Of course, if the stories are true about her feelings/actions toward Bob Welch after he sued the band, then maybe this is all a pipe dream. :shrug:

My working theory, however, is that Chris feels guilty, didn't assert herself with regards to "the band's" decision to fire Lindsey (or successfully so), realizes she has a card to play in all this, which is to collaborate with Lindsey again for BuckVie 2. But this time, Mick and John aren't involved, and there's likely no supporting tour (given her age, potential other commitments to Fleetwood Mac going forward, etc.)

Yes, I realize this is very unlikely to happen (for one thing, if Fleetwood Mac goes to the mats fighting this lawsuit, it could be years before Lindsey and Christine are no longer opposing parties in an ongoing lawsuit), but it's my "Best Case Scenario" for where things stand currently and where I (as a pathetically optimistic fan of these insane people) hope they go.

[David]

Not that long ago I started fiddling with the track list and added Belle Fleur, Lady, The Dealer, If You Were My Love, and Sad Angel/Miss Fantasy to replace some Lindsey songs. 15 tracks may be a bit heavy, but it makes me happy.
To complete the sense of an album in your scenario, do you also imagine those songs played by Fleetwood Mac and arranged-orchestrated and mixed by the Mac team? To me, swapping tracks from other projects in and out doesn't give me that satisfying sense of a Mac album because a song is just a song, and Fleetwood Mac, as much as any other pop band, puts its sonic imprint on a song and singularizes it. Take If You Were My Love, for example. From Mirage outtake to 24K Gold, it just isn't even the same song. Profoundly different.

That's why I never cared which "song" got put on an album. What makes a Fleetwood Mac album sound like Fleetwood Mac is Fleetwood Mac's recording treatment of all those songs (also considering that they haven't always done cool things to songs). Long way of saying that what prevents Buckingham McVie from completely sounding like a Fleetwood Mac album is Stevie's singing, not her songs. A Fleetwood album has never been just a playlist, and a playlist is never a Fleetwood album. That idea of what Fleetwood Mac sounds like with Lindsey helping (or handling) production and arrangement is also at the heart of the disappointment with his departure. I like hearing The Chain played the way he played it with Mick drumming (particularly in 1978 and 1980), and that's now dead. That's what I missed in 1987 at the Forum, and that's what I miss today. The fact that The Chain is still part of today's set means nothing to me (just as it meant nothing to me as part of the 1990 set). The fact that Gold Dust Woman was part of the 1994 set meant nothing to me (other than a mild curiosity). I'm attracted (or not) to what I hear, not to the mere presence of something to pay tribute or fulfill a legacy or meet a marketing expectation. Of course, sometimes the cover job really does excite me based on what I hear: for example, I seem to recall hearing an old concert from the Welch years where Bob did Black Magic Woman. I loved it. Bob was ferociously good on guitar on that. (Did you guys ever hear that?) My two.

[HejiraNYC]

It's the best thing since Mirage! Old Goat Stank really screwed the final chapter of FM to the end, by not recording, firing Lindsey, and being a bitter old ass.

Old Goat stank?? :lol: :lol: :lol: That' sooo funny! Even after the 784th time, it never gets old. :lol: :lol: :lol: You should be a comedian or something. Call Lorne Michaels, stat!

Seriously, it sounds like you're the bitter old ass.

[HomerMcvie]

Old Goat stank?? :lol: :lol: :lol: That' sooo funny! Even after the 784th time, it never gets old. :lol: :lol: :lol: You should be a comedian or something. Call Lorne Michaels, stat!

Seriously, it sounds like you're the bitter old ass.

You're different tonight. Speculation has been...pointed out to me, that maybe you're...toying with....things.

Hope you're okay, Ed. I mean that.

And I'm bitter AF. They FIRED LINDSEY, the wife beater!!!:p

I'm gonna watch the Tusk doc outtakes now, and let it all go...Night, Ed. :angel:

[gldstwmn]

And I'm bitter AF. They FIRED LINDSEY, the wife beater!!!:p

l:

He beats his wife? :confused:

[aleuzzi]

So I was listening to this amazing album today and realized the reason it only has 10 tracks is because Lindsey kept it open for 3 or 4 Stevie tracks. Oh what this album could have been......

There was a finished Christine song that didn't get placed on it because they decided to keep it at 10 songs. Once, when Christine and Lindsey were interviewed for the record, she said "I had high hopes for that song." Lindsey retorted: "For the next record."

[cbBen]

I've never cared for Lay Down For Free. It's too repetitious, and sounds like a drum machine, instead of Mick.

The weakest song on the album by a long shot.

[cbBen]

I'm gonna watch the Tusk doc outtakes now, and let it all go...Night, Ed. :angel:

There are outtakes to the Tusk documentary? Can anyone please link me to them or send them to me?

[HomerMcvie]

There are outtakes to the Tusk documentary? Can anyone please link me to them or send them to me?

Someone sent me a DVD of it, about a decade ago. I'm not sure if they're on Youtube or not. Pretty interesting stuff, especially if you already know the Tusk doc. Some behind the scenes bitching, and eye rolls at others, $tevie in the studio...trying to tell them what $he wants a song to sound like...and NOBODY is listening to her, and $he's twirling her finger around the side of her head...to indicate that they're crazy, etc... It's a must have, for mega fans.

[secondhandchain]

The weakest song on the album by a long shot.

I like it but it would have been much better with a live drum sound.

[cbBen]

I was mixing it up with Too Far Gone. "Too Far Gone" and "Game Of Pretend" are the weakest tracks (I'm not saying they're terrible). The others are all great.

[elle]

There are outtakes to the Tusk documentary? Can anyone please link me to them or send them to me?

i've just seen them peppered all over youtube but i'd love to have all these in one place.

here's Angel-writing excerpt, Stevie and Lindsey working out the melody, that was taken from one of those youtube videos -

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font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:550; line-height:18px;"> View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style="padding: 12.5% 0;"></div> <div style="display: flex; flex-direction: row; margin-bottom: 14px; align-items: center;"><div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 12.5px; width: 12.5px; transform: translateX(0px) translateY(7px);"></div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; height: 12.5px; transform: rotate(-45deg) translateX(3px) translateY(1px); width: 12.5px; flex-grow: 0; margin-right: 14px; margin-left: 2px;"></div> <div style="background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 12.5px; width: 12.5px; transform: translateX(9px) translateY(-18px);"></div></div><div style="margin-left: 8px;"> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; flex-grow: 0; height: 20px; width: 20px;"></div> <div style=" width: 0; height: 0; border-top: 2px solid transparent; border-left: 6px solid #f4f4f4; border-bottom: 2px solid transparent; transform: translateX(16px) translateY(-4px) rotate(30deg)"></div></div><div style="margin-left: auto;"> <div style=" width: 0px; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-right: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(16px);"></div> <div style=" background-color: #F4F4F4; flex-grow: 0; height: 12px; width: 16px; transform: translateY(-4px);"></div> <div style=" width: 0; height: 0; border-top: 8px solid #F4F4F4; border-left: 8px solid transparent; transform: translateY(-4px) translateX(8px);"></div></div></div></a> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BpM8cBThki9/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_medium=loading" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">"There's a part for instance where Lindsey &amp; I are sitting at the piano singing Angel &amp; looking at each other. There's a certain thing that goes on between us - it always has &amp; probably always will. But it's there, on the tape! It's incredible - &amp; kind of frightening. You can see all of what's gone on between us for the last 10 years". - Stevie, US Magazine 1980 #stevienicks #lindseybuckingham #fleetwoodmac #tuskdocumentary #angel</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/mariej1705x/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_medium=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Marie Johnson</a> (@mariej1705x) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-10-21T16:43:15+00:00">Oct 21, 2018 at 9:43am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

[cbBen]

here's Angel-writing excerpt, Stevie and Lindsey working out the melody, that was taken from one of those youtube videos

This clip is in the documentary itself. A nice moment.

[bombaysaffires]

This clip is in the documentary itself. A nice moment.

he was being much kinder to her in this clip than he would be if the cameras weren't there. Tusk, when you listen to most of his songs, is an awful lot about his anger and sadness about the end of their relationship. He hadn't come to terms with it and blamed her. He was very nasty to her during the making of this album. The documentary was made as a promotional piece by the record company and band, so the true nasty bits aren't in it. He could be very caustic and cutting in his comments about her songs and often made it a point to make those comments in front of lots of other people in the studio to add public humiliation to the mix. Not Lindsey's finest hour, but not hers, either.

[cbBen]

He hadn't come to terms with it and blamed her.

I've heard Lindsey in interviews say he didn't want the relationship to end and resented Stevie for breaking it off. I've always found such comments utterly baffling. It is beyond me how a man can be with a woman for 5-6 years, not propose, and yet blame the breakup on her.

[elle]

I've heard Lindsey in interviews say he didn't want the relationship to end and resented Stevie for breaking it off. I've always found such comments utterly baffling. It is beyond me how a man can be with a woman for 5-6 years, not propose, and yet blame the breakup on her.

huh? did you come from another century?

[cbBen]

huh? did you come from another century?

Am I'm being presumptuous?

[DownOnRodeo]

he was being much kinder to her in this clip than he would be if the cameras weren't there. (...) The documentary was made as a promotional piece by the record company and band, so the true nasty bits aren't in it.

Do we know who conceived of and bankrolled the Destiny Rules documentary?
I always assumed it was Warner Brothers, but since half the documentary is about whether or not to sign with Warner Brothers in the first place, that doesn't make any sense.

[elle]

Do we know who conceived of and bankrolled the Destiny Rules documentary?
I always assumed it was Warner Brothers, but since half the documentary is about whether or not to sign with Warner Brothers in the first place, that doesn't make any sense.

i think the director said it was LB's baby.

[DownOnRodeo]

i think the director said it was LB's baby.

Thanks. That was my working theory. (Particularly since there's that scene where he's talking with Mick and expresses an admiration for indie film-making.)
I wonder if part of the reason for doing it was to make sure he and the others stayed on their best behavior.
Either way, it turned out to be a generous fan service--not to mention an incredibly helpful reference for trying to make sense of the current state of affairs!

[cbBen]

I wonder if part of the reason for doing it was to make sure he and the others stayed on their best behavior.

How badly would you like to see the fight that led to the album going back to a single disc and killing (at least according to Mick) any prospects for a future album?

It must have been some fight, because it would have been an obvious climax scene for the film but was not included.

[DownOnRodeo]

How badly would you like to see the fight that led to the album going back to a single disc and killing (at least according to Mick) any prospects for a future album?

It must have been some fight, because it would have been an obvious climax scene for the film but was not included.

Exactly. The most acrimonious and telling part of the story was not included--presumably because Stevie (and maybe Mick's) camps did not give their approval, either to the filming or during the editing stage.

I don't think I'd necessarily enjoy watching another fight between Stevie, Lindsey and Karen, but it's frustrating from a narrative perspective for the most pivotal part of that "subplot" to be elided completely and just summarily reported on by Lindsey after the fact.

I actually side with the others regarding not making it a double album, and being able to squeeze as many as 18 tracks on 1 CD seems like a reasonable compromise. My take on it is that Lindsey had been sitting on this project for WAY to long (ie his last release (other than The Dance) was in 1992) so he had too much invested in it psychologically and was trying to accomplish too much, even despite shifting the project to a different context (ie FM instead of solo).

But everyone stringing him along until the last minute is so infuriating.

[cbBen]

The double-CD idea was ridiculous. A CD holds 80 minutes, so a double-CD album would have been longer than Tusk by a country mile.

One thing that annoyed me about the way Lindsey advocated for it was his constant insinuation that any opposition to the idea was motivated by selling out. "Are you going to do it my way or be a sellout?" It was always a false dilemma.

The Beatles White Album is only 93 minutes and draws from three of the greatest songwriters of all time all at their creative peak.

[DownOnRodeo]

The double-CD idea was ridiculous. A CD holds 80 minutes, so a double-CD album would have been longer than Tusk by a country mile.

I think a chief concern was probably that cramming a lot of tracks onto one CD would result in "burying" of eclectic songs, or have the appearance of such a burying. For example, I imagine the initial idea for a 2-CD package was to limit the number of tracks to something like 12 or 13, rather than put out something like 36 tracks at once.

[cbBen]

Even 18 songs was too many.

[Kubrick2788]

Just pulled SYW out to give it a spin and thought to myself, "way to go, you made it through Murrow!" 18 tracks is too many...it needs some pruning.

[elle]

Just pulled SYW out to give it a spin and thought to myself, "way to go, you made it through Murrow!" 18 tracks is too many...it needs some pruning.

easy. get rid of all Stevie tracks except Destiny Rules, and get rid of WWTWCT and you are in business! better yet, just pull lout that masterpiece that was Gift of Screws bootleg and add Peacekeeper to it.

[DownOnRodeo]

Just pulled SYW out to give it a spin and thought to myself, "way to go, you made it through Murrow!" 18 tracks is too many...it needs some pruning.

The track order was another major bone of contention that was not included in the documentary, unfortunately. Suffice to say that Lindsey mostly got his way, in terms of the darker/avant-garde/political tracks being put on the "A side" and some of the more lightweight/standard tracks on the "B side". Although I see why he did it (to avoid the "track-burying" thing), I personally am not a big fan of this decision--I would rather that the listener gets to "warm up" with the likes of Steal Your Heart Away and (blecch) Silver Girl, and then be later rewarded and surprised with mind-blowing opuses like Murrow, Red Rover, and Illume.

[jbrownsjr]

SYW represented the disconnect between B/N and sorely lacked chemistry. Despite, having some great tunes on it, I don't listen to it often.

B/M in my opinion had way more chemistry and flowed so nicely.

Too bad we may not get another B/M album.

[Kubrick2788]

easy. get rid of all Stevie tracks except Destiny Rules, and get rid of WWTWCT and you are in business! better yet, just pull lout that masterpiece that was Gift of Screws bootleg and add Peacekeeper to it.

Oh, Elle, while there's no need to ever listen to Silver Girl...ever...I'm of the opinion that the Stevie songs are stronger. Definitely some great Lindsey moments, but his "avant garde" songs/lyrics/production choices are almost always a turn off for me. But, to respond to another post, I think SYW has a better flow and better songs that B/M did. I don't know that I'm overly sad the chances of a follow up album have lessened lately. Those songs were fine but seemed to be scraping bottom on Christine's end and Lindsey...well, he's still Lindsey. I don't know that any of the three songwriters have much left to say.

[Kubrick2788]

Just to elaborate a little re SYW vs B/M, I think SYW feels more obviously connected despite it being a frankenstein of a solo album and Stevie's songs thrown into the mix. There's a through line on production, for better or worse, that feels more solid than on B/M. SYW has songs that feel like genuine collaborations as opposed to Christine popping in from time to time on Lindsey tracks. B/M feels more like two distinct halves to my ears than SYW. But maybe that's just me. I'm also the person that thinks Carnival Begin is the obvious clunker on B/M...so who knows?

I am firmly of the belief that Destiny Rules/EFO/RTTG for Stevie and BTLH/SYHA/Miranda are the essentials.

[DownOnRodeo]

While a 2000-ish album from Lindsey comprising the GOS material and his solo version of Peacekeeper etc. would have been AWESOME, I too think that Stevie really brought the goods to the table with SYW in terms of the songs themselves (but I'm not a fan of her vocals on some of SYW--probably half a question of performance and half a question of production/mixing; she's too LOUD). It's just that Silver Girl is so cringey (for many, at least) that it drags down the rest of her contributions.

Love
Not Make Believe
Say You Will
Running Through The Garden
Destiny Rules
Thrown Down
Everybody Finds Out
Goodbye Baby
Illume (9-11)

Tolerate
Smile At You
(I was spoilt by the great old demo; that piano!)

Love to hate
Silver Girl

[cbBen]

In the Destiny Rules documentary she sounds great singing the first half of "Goodbye Baby," but then it cuts to the finished studio recording and it's clear that whatever vocal effect they applied (reverb?) detracts from her vocal. Things like that are probably why she never wanted Lindsey producing her material again.