Lindsey Buckingham in the age of the MeToo movement

[JimSATX]

I see so much hate for Stevie about Lindsey being kicked out of the band, because people state that she just wants to be in control, etc, etc. Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band? We've all seen the accounts of Lindsey hassling Stevie on stage, and the other band members being pissed off about it. And when Lindsey left before the Tango in the Night tour, Mick alluded to the possibility of Lindsey hitting Stevie during their confrontation, since they had all seen it before. Makes me wonder how abusive to her he might have been when they were still together. And Carol Ann Harris details in her book the abuse she received from Lindsey, including awful things that happened right in front of Christine. Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

[FuzzyPlum]

And yet she/they were all okay with everything for more than 40 years.
Your opening post is backed up by zero evidence, except hearsay concerning events from 30 to 40 years ago.

[lovethemac1]

What about Billy Burnette's recent post about Stevie being violent as well? He said he saw her pick up a chair and throw it at Chris during an argument.

How does that fit in with your scenario?

I have no patience for abuse from any sex to anyone of any other sex.

[DownOnRodeo]

Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band?

I'll never find it, but I swear I have seen (or read) an interview in which Stevie claims that she is the one who can be given to flying into violent rages. (I've wondered whether that's the reason Mick took her into the carpark to tell her about Silver Springs being cut.) Granted it may just be her usual hyperbole. But isn't she the one who said that she chased Lindsey out of Christine's house and down the street?

[secondhandchain]

I see so much hate for Stevie about Lindsey being kicked out of the band, because people state that she just wants to be in control, etc, etc. Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band? We've all seen the accounts of Lindsey hassling Stevie on stage, and the other band members being pissed off about it. And when Lindsey left before the Tango in the Night tour, Mick alluded to the possibility of Lindsey hitting Stevie during their confrontation, since they had all seen it before. Makes me wonder how abusive to her he might have been when they were still together. And Carol Ann Harris details in her book the abuse she received from Lindsey, including awful things that happened right in front of Christine. Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

So after 40 years? Please.

[gldstwmn]

I see so much hate for Stevie about Lindsey being kicked out of the band, because people state that she just wants to be in control, etc, etc. Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band? We've all seen the accounts of Lindsey hassling Stevie on stage, and the other band members being pissed off about it. And when Lindsey left before the Tango in the Night tour, Mick alluded to the possibility of Lindsey hitting Stevie during their confrontation, since they had all seen it before. Makes me wonder how abusive to her he might have been when they were still together. And Carol Ann Harris details in her book the abuse she received from Lindsey, including awful things that happened right in front of Christine. Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

Yes I do. We're talking about someone who has a history of choking people FFS. I mean think about it. When was the last time you choked someone? I can honestly say I never have. I don't think many other people could either.
Lindsey may or may not be physically abusive anymore but I certainly believe he is verbally and emotionally abusive.
As far as the #metoo thing I've never heard of anyone in the band acting in a way that would fall under #metoo but the thing is people who have been a victim of this don't usually talk about it or report it. They feel ashamed. I honestly don't think any of them are like that but then again I don't know any of them. I'd venture to say that 99% of the people here don't. Lindsey is a hard guy to live with. His wife said as much in the RS article. While I don't really care for her or the way she's inserted herself into this mess I do wonder what her experience with him has been like.

[gldstwmn]

And yet she/they were all okay with everything for more than 40 years.


That's the thing though. They weren't. They made accommodations.

[FuzzyPlum]

That's the thing though. They weren't. They made accommodations.

But that's the frustrating thing; If they really had been accommodating for more than 40 years it wouldn't have done any harm to be accommodating for a further 2 years.
All the recent evidence suggests Lindsey has been the accommodating one.

[secondhandchain]

This is a disgusting thread. Please delete it

[secondhandchain]

You’re basically accusing Lindsay of sexual assault by starting this thread so not right. I’m sure he made gold dusts day.

[jeets2000]

I see so much hate for Stevie about Lindsey being kicked out of the band, because people state that she just wants to be in control, etc, etc. Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band? We've all seen the accounts of Lindsey hassling Stevie on stage, and the other band members being pissed off about it. And when Lindsey left before the Tango in the Night tour, Mick alluded to the possibility of Lindsey hitting Stevie during their confrontation, since they had all seen it before. Makes me wonder how abusive to her he might have been when they were still together. And Carol Ann Harris details in her book the abuse she received from Lindsey, including awful things that happened right in front of Christine. Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

Well, to address the highlighted question above, in this 2013 interview (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html) in which the New Zealand "kicking" incident is discussed, Stevie said, "And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life." I take that to mean that was the first "physical" incident she had experienced, per Stevie herself.

Also, just a note about this thread in general: I know this board is built for nothing but idle speculation, but given the gravity of a topic like the #MeToo movement, I'd be remiss if I didn't encourage folks to use their best judgment when posting about this. Sexual assault and harassment are immensely serious topics, and I worry that tossing out speculation like this runs the risk of diminishing the stories of the women (and men) who have come forward. Just my 2 cents.

[FuzzyPlum]

Probably yes. Most of the Lindsey loving Stevie haters on this forum haven't read Carol Ann Harris' book "Storms which you cited in your post. If they read the book, they might have a better understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and it's best to move on and bring in new band members in order to create a peaceful, happy work environment.

a) most of us aren't Lindsey lovers per se
b) most of us aren't Stevie haters per se
c) most of us probably have read Carol Ann Harris' book
d) what the f**k has that book got to do with it? It was written concerning events about 35-40 years ago. This is 2018.
e) no, reading that book I don't get any understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and its best to move on. wtf? :confused:

[Sugar Mouse]

Those familiar with the issues raised by the Me Too movement understand that issues from years ago may have been ignored or repressed for decades and can hold a very different meaning when they come to light today. Those who know survivors or who are themselves survivors may see things differently than you do. And have you read the Carol Ann Harris book? If you haven't, I would suggest to read it.

[saniette]

Those familiar with the issues raised by the Me Too movement understand that issues from years ago may have been ignored or repressed for decades and can hold a very different meaning when they come to light today. Those who know survivors or who are themselves survivors may see things differently than you do. And have you read the Carol Ann Harris book? If you haven't, I would suggest to read it.

So your claim is that the band fired Lindsey because he allegedly abused Carol Ann Harris almost 40 years ago? How about that whole 2 sides to every story thing? Or is that only when the band/Stevie is accused of something? There's nothing too sordid you won't believe about Lindsey, right? No evidence necessary.

And for the record, Ken Caillat's and Carol Ann Harris' books put the whole band in a pretty bad light, not just Lindsey. So if we're going to go back 40 years, everyone in the band would be guilty of unsavory behavior.

[aleuzzi]

I'm not buying the premise.

Thanks for playing.

[gldstwmn]

But that's the frustrating thing; If they really had been accommodating for more than 40 years it wouldn't have done any harm to be accommodating for a further 2 years.
All the recent evidence suggests Lindsey has been the accommodating one.

Sometimes there's a breaking point. When you're 70 two years may be too long. Hell, two hours may be too long. I'm beginning to think that was the case at Music Cares.

[gldstwmn]

You’re basically accusing Lindsay of sexual assault by starting this thread so not right. I’m sure he made gold dusts day.

Why can't we have a discussion about this? JimSATX didn't accuse Lindsey of sexaul assault. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it go away. Part of the problem is that this is an issue that was swept under the carpet for so long.

[gldstwmn]

Well, to address the highlighted question above, in this 2013 interview (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/event/article-2529544/Fleetwood-Mac-You-make-fighting-fun-OK-Lindsey-Buckingham-admits-I-did-kick-Stevie-Nicks-Fleetwood-Mac-settling-old-scores.html) in which the New Zealand "kicking" incident is discussed, Stevie said, "And I’d never had anyone be physical with me in my life." I take that to mean that was the first "physical" incident she had experienced, per Stevie herself.

Also, just a note about this thread in general: I know this board is built for nothing but idle speculation, but given the gravity of a topic like the #MeToo movement, I'd be remiss if I didn't encourage folks to use their best judgment when posting about this. Sexual assault and harassment are immensely serious topics, and I worry that tossing out speculation like this runs the risk of diminishing the stories of the women (and men) who have come forward. Just my 2 cents.

Still it's relevant and timely.

[gldstwmn]

Probably yes. Most of the Lindsey loving Stevie haters on this forum haven't read Carol Ann Harris' book "Storms which you cited in your post. If they read the book, they might have a better understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and it's best to move on and bring in new band members in order to create a peaceful, happy work environment.

Ken Caillat's book is quite illuminating on this as well.

[secondhandchain]

Why can't we have a discussion about this? JimSATX didn't accuse Lindsey of sexaul assault. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it go away. Part of the problem is that this is an issue that was swept under the carpet for so long.

You are LINKING Lindsey with SEXUAL ASSAULT. THAT is the me too movement. He has NEVER been accused of that. Even though you want it to be true, that doesn't make it right. Your obsession with Stevie is making you want this to be true.

[gldstwmn]

Those familiar with the issues raised by the Me Too movement understand that issues from years ago may have been ignored or repressed for decades and can hold a very different meaning when they come to light today. Those who know survivors or who are themselves survivors may see things differently than you do. And have you read the Carol Ann Harris book? If you haven't, I would suggest to read it.

Thank you. Also Carol has said she is writing a follow up. She showed up on Facebook after a long absence due to some health issues. I asked if she was writing the book still but didn't get response.

[gldstwmn]

a) most of us aren't Lindsey lovers per se
b) most of us aren't Stevie haters per se


Can we just let go of the whole I used to be a Stevie fan pretense? No one's really buying it.

[gldstwmn]

So your claim is that the band fired Lindsey because he allegedly abused Carol Ann Harris almost 40 years ago? .
There's a career for you in reading tea leaves, crystal balls and magic eight balls. Where in the world did he say that? He didn't. Stop twisting and putting words in people's mouths so to speak. We can see what he said. It's right there in black and white.

[HomerMcvie]

Why can't we have a discussion about this? JimSATX didn't accuse Lindsey of sexaul assault. Ignoring an issue doesn't make it go away. Part of the problem is that this is an issue that was swept under the carpet for so long.

You're a real piece of work.

[jeets2000]

Still it's relevant and timely.

I think what the other side is saying is that it's not relevant because #MeToo is about sexual assault, and there's never been any whispers of that kind of behavior involving any members of the band to date. So while #MeToo might be relevant and timely, it's not with regards to Fleetwood Mac.

[gldstwmn]

I think what the other side is saying is that it's not relevant because #MeToo is about sexual assault, and there's never been any whispers of that kind of behavior involving any members of the band to date. So while #MeToo might be relevant and timely, it's not with regards to Fleetwood Mac.

How do we know that?

[saniette]

There's a career for you in reading tea leaves, crystal balls and magic eight balls. Where in the world did he say that? He didn't. Stop twisting and putting words in people's mouths so to speak. We can see what he said. It's right there in black and white.

Um, see the question mark at the end? It's not a statement. I'm trying to figure what the connection is between Carol Ann Harris's book and Lindsey's firing. Seems dubious, but feel free to elaborate on that.

And you may have the same calling yourself, considering all the leaps you make.

[FuzzyPlum]

Can we just let go of the whole I used to be a Stevie fan pretense? No one's really buying it.

I don't understand :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

You are LINKING Lindsey with SEXUAL ASSAULT. THAT is the me too movement. He has NEVER been accused of that.I never linked Lindsey with sexual assault. You did.

Even though you want it to be true, that doesn't make it right. Your obsession with Stevie is making you want this to be true.

Are you f@cking kidding me right now? That is the very definition of disgusting. Why in God's name would I or anyone for that matter want someone to be a rapist? Do you realize what you're saying? You didn't think before you posted that did you? Why are YOU so opposed to this discussion? Does it make YOU uncomfortable?

[gldstwmn]

Um, see the question mark at the end? It's not a statement. I'm trying to figure what the connection is between Carol Ann Harris's book and Lindsey's firing. Seems dubious, but feel free to elaborate on that.

And you may have the same calling yourself, considering all the leaps you make.

Tarot cards. I love them but mostly for the cool artwork. :cool:

[gldstwmn]

You're a real piece of work.

You don't know the half of it. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

I don't understand :shrug:

Sorry. That wasn't so much directed at you as others.

[FuzzyPlum]

Sorry. That wasn't so much directed at you as others.

For the record, I've never particularly been a Stevie fan, but I've certainly never disliked her. So too, I've never particularly been a Lindsey fan either.

[HejiraNYC]

For what it's worth, some relevant quotes from the recent unauthorized biography by Stephen Davis. Admittedly, the book seems to be a rehash of interviews and articles that have been published, so it is what it is. That being said, if, nothing else, the book seems to be meticulously researched.

Courtesy of America's most trusted news source, the New York Post. :rolleyes: :lol:

https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/lindsey-buckinghams-abuse-of-stevie-nicks-detailed-in-new-book/

Their record label had asked the duo to look “sexy,” and the bookish Nicks was already feeling self-conscious when the photographer told her to remove her diaphanous white blouse.

She didn’t want to do it. Buckingham lost it.

“Don’t be a f–king child,” the then-24-year-old guitarist snapped. “This is art!”

She said he was “hijacking” her music and told her mother that her now-ex had gotten physical with her during a row and had “thrown her down to the floor.”

At a concert in Wellington, New Zealand, Buckingham tried to trip Nicks onstage and began imitating her moves. While Nicks was singing “Rhiannon,” the guitarist stopped playing and attempted to kick her.

The rest of the band was shocked, but only singer Christine McVie confronted him about it. Buckingham, who reportedly never apologized, has stated that he doesn’t remember the incident.

One time, during a heated argument in front of the band in 1987, Buckingham, the book says, “manhandled Stevie, slapped her face and bent her backward over the hood of his car. He put his fingers around her neck and started to choke her.” Nicks said: “I thought he was going to kill me.” This time, her band stood up to him. He wouldn’t lay a hand on her again.

...and just to add some serious shade:

“Stevie was an American legend, but Lindsey’s star would eventually fade away.”:lol:

[jeets2000]

How do we know that?

Well, since you and I both know it's impossible to prove a negative, the next best thing we can do is rely on rely on first-hand accounts from the principals themselves (TV/audio interviews with band members, Mick's book, etc.). Print interviews are a good source, too, since they're often based on audio-recorded interviews and verified by fact-checkers and editors.

Then there's the fact that we're lucky to be a part of a community here that has an incredible amount of institutional knowledge, dating back in some cases to the late 60s and early 70s. These people are able to and often do step in with their perspective during contentious arguments. And of course there are a few (usually quiet) folks who are more plugged in to the band's inner circle than the rest of us.

Our job, as well-educated humans on this earth, is to take all of the relevant information we can find and form our beliefs based on the information available to us. Might we come to different conclusions? Sure. But when we're basing our beliefs on verifiable information, it makes for an enriching discussion for everyone involved. Where we deviate from that, allowing preconceived opinions and biases to seep into our views, the conversation devolves and nobody benefits.

The reason I do not believe Lindsey, or any other member of the band, has sexually assaulted another individual is because I have never come across evidence that shows he or they did. Is it possible that that has occurred and I'm unaware of it? Yes. But is it reasonable to believe one of them has sexually assaulted someone without that evidence, though? No, it's not.

That's not to say you can't have a negative opinion of Lindsey because of things he's said and done in the past. You are welcome to that view, and I'm sure it is well-founded in your mind. But to make the leap from that to sexual assault is one I am not willing to make. To me, the topic is too serious for idle, baseless speculation.

[secondhandchain]

Can we just let go of the whole I used to be a Stevie fan pretense? No one's really buying it.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Don't you tell me that I wasn't a Stevie fan. HUGE FAN. That's what I was and that's a FACT!! I have every one of her albums (even the last one). I've been a fan since 1977. She has disappointed me SO many times recently that I can't do it anymore.

[gldstwmn]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Don't you tell me that I wasn't a Stevie fan. HUGE FAN. That's what I was and that's a FACT!! I have every one of her albums (even the last one). I've been a fan since 1977. She has disappointed me SO many times recently that I can't do it anymore.

Actually I wasn't even thinking of you when I made that comment. :laugh::sorry:
If you can't do it anymore maybe the best thing is to stop talking about it.

[gldstwmn]

That's not to say you can't have a negative opinion of Lindsey because of things he's said and done in the past. You are welcome to that view, and I'm sure it is well-founded in your mind. But to make the leap from that to sexual assault is one I am not willing to make. To me, the topic is too serious for idle, baseless speculation.

Just to be clear I don't know if you read my initial post but that leap is certainly one am I not willing to make nor have I made it.

It seems like there is some confusion about what the movement actually is (not by you). So here is the definition from Wikipedia:
The Me Too movement (or #MeToo movement), with many local and international alternatives, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.[1][2][3] #MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag used on social media in an attempt to demonstrate the widespread prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.[4][5] It followed soon after the sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein.[6][7] Tarana Burke, an American social activist and community organizer, began using the phrase "Me Too" as early as 2006, and the phrase was later popularized by American actress Alyssa Milano, on Twitter in 2017. Milano and Michael Baker encouraged victims of sexual harassment to tweet about it and "give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem".[8][9] This was met with success that included but was not limited to high-profile posts from several American celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow,[10] Ashley Judd,[11] Jennifer Lawrence,[12] and Uma Thurman.[13]

There's more, a lot more at Wikipedia but that sums it up pretty well.

[gldstwmn]

For the record, I've never particularly been a Stevie fan, but I've certainly never disliked her. So too, I've never particularly been a Lindsey fan either.

You like the band as a whole or is Chris your favorite?

[jeets2000]

Just to be clear I don't know if you read my initial post but that leap is certainly one am I not willing to make nor have I made it.

Right. I stated that none of the members of Fleetwood Mac had been credibly accused of sexual assault to date. Then you asked, "How do we know that?" which, perhaps inaccurately, led me to believe you might have doubts about my statement (i.e., someone in the band IS a sexual assaulter), despite your earlier post.

I apologize if you felt that portion was directed specifically at you. I was just trying to explain my view and why I felt like this thread -- though an important topic -- is not relevant to Fleetwood Mac based on the information we all have.

[sasja]

I'd be very careful with this post, this title to it and this thread.

It smacks of allegations that could be construed as slander, and might get The Ledge in serious trouble.

Just my opinion.

It might be a different story to post such a thread and start a discussion if this day had brought the stunner in the Mainstream Media that actual sexual abuse/assault allegations have been filed against Lindsey Buckingham.

Otherwise it may be wise to take the thread down. Also because the man has a wife and under age kids.

It's one thing to "accuse" a person of being a poor friend or musician or colleague, it's a whole different ball of wax to baselessly connect that person to a movement that sprung forth in reaction to felony offenses and in that way, to be implying criminal behavior.

[jeets2000]

It seems like there is some confusion about what the movement actually is (not by you). So here is the definition from Wikipedia:
The Me Too movement (or #MeToo movement), with many local and international alternatives, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.[1][2][3] #MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag used on social media in an attempt to demonstrate the widespread prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.[4][5] It followed soon after the sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein.[6][7] Tarana Burke, an American social activist and community organizer, began using the phrase "Me Too" as early as 2006, and the phrase was later popularized by American actress Alyssa Milano, on Twitter in 2017. Milano and Michael Baker encouraged victims of sexual harassment to tweet about it and "give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem".[8][9] This was met with success that included but was not limited to high-profile posts from several American celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow,[10] Ashley Judd,[11] Jennifer Lawrence,[12] and Uma Thurman.[13]

There's more, a lot more at Wikipedia but that sums it up pretty well.

Just saw your edit with this update. Thanks for posting, as I suspect you might be right re: confusion and the original post.

[gldstwmn]

Right. I stated that none of the members of Fleetwood Mac had been credibly accused of sexual assault to date. Then you asked, "How do we know that?" which, perhaps inaccurately, led me to believe you might have doubts about my statement (i.e., someone in the band IS a sexual assaulter), despite your earlier post.

I apologize if you felt that portion was directed specifically at you. I was just trying to explain my view and why I felt like this thread -- though an important topic -- is not relevant to Fleetwood Mac based on the information we all have.

No worries. I get what you're saying.

[FuzzyPlum]

You like the band as a whole or is Chris your favorite?

I am a Fleetwood Mac fan- all eras.
I own most Stevie albums but not all. I find it hard to listen to too much Stevie at a stretch.
I own most Lindsey albums but not all. I find it hard to listen to too much Lindsey at a stretch.
I am/was mostly a Christine fan.

[lovethemac1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Mouse View Post
Probably yes. Most of the Lindsey loving Stevie haters on this forum haven't read Carol Ann Harris' book "Storms which you cited in your post. If they read the book, they might have a better understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and it's best to move on and bring in new band members in order to create a peaceful, happy work environment.

a) most of us aren't Lindsey lovers per se
b) most of us aren't Stevie haters per se
c) most of us probably have read Carol Ann Harris' book
d) what the f**k has that book got to do with it? It was written concerning events about 35-40 years ago. This is 2018.
e) no, reading that book I don't get any understanding of why a band decides enough is enough and its best to move on. wtf? :confused:

Sugar Mick, you have no hot a** clue what you are talking about. Do you honestly not think that those of us who have been fans of this band for decades would not have read that book? This shows how out of touch, and how condescending you can be about subjects that you manage to invent a pile of conjecture about. Sheesh.

FuzzyPlum, thank you for summarizing it for Sugar Mick.

[lovethemac1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeets2000 View Post
I think what the other side is saying is that it's not relevant because #MeToo is about sexual assault, and there's never been any whispers of that kind of behavior involving any members of the band to date. So while #MeToo might be relevant and timely, it's not with regards to Fleetwood Mac.

How do we know that?

Talk about speculation........................

[lovethemac1]

I'd be very careful with this post, this title to it and this thread.

It smacks of allegations that could be construed as slander, and might get The Ledge in serious trouble.

Just my opinion.

It might be a different story to post such a thread and start a discussion if this day had brought the stunner in the Mainstream Media that actual sexual abuse/assault allegations have been filed against Lindsey Buckingham.

Otherwise it may be wise to take the thread down. Also because the man has a wife and under age kids.

It's one thing to "accuse" a person of being a poor friend or musician or colleague, it's a whole different ball of wax to baselessly connect that person to a movement that sprung forth in reaction to felony offenses and in that way, to be implying criminal behavior.

I agree with this 100%. The man has never been convicted of anything.

And as I said before, Billy Burnette posted about Stevie throwing a chair at Chris. No Stevie lovers are talking about that, funny thing.

[HomerMcvie]

I agree with this 100%. The man has never been convicted of anything.

And as I said before, Billy Burnette posted about Stevie throwing a chair at Chris. No Stevie lovers are talking about that, funny thing.
I think that has as much to do with her being a woman, as being $tevie. It's about time she paid that mean man back. Kick his ass, $tevie!

[TheWildHeart67]

Why was this thread created?
The "metoo" movement is about rape and sexual assault.
Even if Lindsey did indeed smack Carol Ann and Stevie around, it has nothing to do with the "metoo" movement.
This thread should be deleted.
Lindsey isn't a rapist.

[SteveMacD]

It should be deleted, I agree.

The only thing I would argue is that Stevie would totally feel emboldened to throw him under the bus at this point in time if he had been physically abusive towards her. That she hasn’t, especially after the lawsuit filing, tells me there was probably not an issue.

[secondhandchain]

How do we know that?

We DON'T know and it's never been said. You really ARE a piece of work. How do we know your only hobby in life is posting on a FM board? We don't know that.

[bwboy]

I'd be very careful with this post, this title to it and this thread.

It smacks of allegations that could be construed as slander, and might get The Ledge in serious trouble.

Just my opinion.

It might be a different story to post such a thread and start a discussion if this day had brought the stunner in the Mainstream Media that actual sexual abuse/assault allegations have been filed against Lindsey Buckingham.

Otherwise it may be wise to take the thread down. Also because the man has a wife and under age kids.

It's one thing to "accuse" a person of being a poor friend or musician or colleague, it's a whole different ball of wax to baselessly connect that person to a movement that sprung forth in reaction to felony offenses and in that way, to be implying criminal behavior.

Wow! I'm not a lawyer, but how could a thread in a fan message board by posters who don't know Lindsey or any of the other band members get the Ledge in trouble? The OP asked a serious question, they certainly weren't accusing Lindsey of anything at all.

Also, do people here really think anyone connected with the band or Lindsey read this board? I just can't imagine Lindsey reading this thread and then calling his lawyers and asking about possible defamation. And the idea that Lindsey's underage kids might be lurking here is also laughable.

But if Lindsey or FM or any of their friends/families/tourmates do lurk on these message boards, I think they would die from laughter at all the theories and first-hand accounts of their lives that people who have never even met them post here.

[justcrazylove]

My god this place has turned into a real piece of ****, after 15 years I think I'm done! I miss Michelle, and ChilliD, and Elle; posters with insightful, thoughtful, intelligent opinions, not hearsay, slander, and a group of sycophants. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for letting this board get to this point.

[HomerMcvie]

My god this place has turned into a real piece of ****, after 15 years I think I'm done! I miss Michelle, and ChilliD, and Elle; posters with insightful, thoughtful, intelligent opinions, not hearsay, slander, and a group of sycophants. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for letting this board get to this point.
I had dinner with Michelle a few weeks ago. She's awesome. :wavey:

[bombaysaffires]

I never linked Lindsey with sexual assault. You did.


Are you f@cking kidding me right now? That is the very definition of disgusting. Why in God's name would I or anyone for that matter want someone to be a rapist? Do you realize what you're saying? You didn't think before you posted that did you? Why are YOU so opposed to this discussion? Does it make YOU uncomfortable?

By linking him to the me too movement, and by condoning this thread (you basically said oh give Jim a break it's a valid topic) which is in fact about SEXUAL assault, you are participating in a very dirty game of innuendo in which one puts the words "me too" and "Lindsey" in the same thread title thereby creating an association but then allowing yourselves the technicality of saying oh no we didn't say he was guilty of THAT, trying to put the blame on the reader for misinterpreting your goal. Which is very clear. Otherwise, why have a whole thread that puts that term and his name together?? Vile.

[secondhandchain]

My god this place has turned into a real piece of ****, after 15 years I think I'm done! I miss Michelle, and ChilliD, and Elle; posters with insightful, thoughtful, intelligent opinions, not hearsay, slander, and a group of sycophants. We should all be ashamed of ourselves for letting this board get to this point.

These aren't normal times in FM world. You can't expect it to be the same. This board is a microcosm for what's going on this country. (not to get political) This is our country now, this is our board now. We reap what we sow.

[justcrazylove]

I totally agree, and I am very much team Lindsey, but threads like this, and the posts that gldstmwn and sugar mouse and the like are creating are just straight up BS.

[sands of time]

I think I heard maybe he was fired because it was discovered he owned slaves. He had to go.

[sands of time]

I'm not a lawyer

Who cares? Give us your analysis anyway please!

[bwboy]

Who cares? Give us your analysis anyway please!

LOL I already did!

[dontlookdown]

I see so much hate for Stevie about Lindsey being kicked out of the band, because people state that she just wants to be in control, etc, etc. Does anyone think Lindsey's past abuse of Stevie might have played some role in the decision to axe him from the band? We've all seen the accounts of Lindsey hassling Stevie on stage, and the other band members being pissed off about it. And when Lindsey left before the Tango in the Night tour, Mick alluded to the possibility of Lindsey hitting Stevie during their confrontation, since they had all seen it before. Makes me wonder how abusive to her he might have been when they were still together. And Carol Ann Harris details in her book the abuse she received from Lindsey, including awful things that happened right in front of Christine. Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

I seriously doubt it. And Carol Ann Harris has zero credibility within the inner circle of Fleetwood Mac. Her book is desperate money-grabbing gossip rag.

[sodascouts]

I think I heard maybe he was fired because it was discovered he owned slaves. He had to go.

I heard he was fired because he suggested that they might purchase the babies of the poor in each city they visited on tour and cook them for dinner; he argued that this would not only save money on catering, but also help the economy by reducing the number of people on Welfare long-term in addition to the immediate cash benefit for the mothers.

He likes to do things concurrently.

[gldstwmn]

I seriously doubt it. And Carol Ann Harris has zero credibility within the inner circle of Fleetwood Mac. Her book is desperate money-grabbing gossip rag.

And yet her book stood up to a vetting process of her publishers attorneys and has been corroborated (certain parts) by others in the inner circle.

[dontlookdown]

I don't know - there's always something so pathetic and stalkerly about these people who were connected to the band, not for their talent, but because they were groupies who found a way in.
I've heard from a lot of credible people that her book is garbage and should have been in check out lines at mainstream grocery stores instead of book stores or on amazon.

[Angel75]

[QUOTE=HejiraNYC;1241863] That being said, if, nothing else, the book seems to be meticulously researched.

Courtesy of America's most trusted news source, the New York Post. :rolleyes: :lol:

Quote:
At a concert in Wellington, New Zealand, Buckingham tried to trip Nicks onstage and began imitating her moves. While Nicks was singing “Rhiannon,” the guitarist stopped playing and attempted to kick her.

The rest of the band was shocked, but only singer Christine McVie confronted him about it. Buckingham, who reportedly never apologized, has stated that he doesn’t remember the incident.



"Meticulously researched" -hahahaha, it is so poorly researched it makes my blood boil. This kicking incident for one was NOT in Wellington, NOT in Australia at all, but AUCKLAND...its very easy to find the correct location if you spend 3 seconds on Google.

And as for LB denying or not remembering this incident taking place, please refer to the interview below when Lindsey ADMITS how unprofessional his behaviour was and that Clapton was considered as his replacement. How can a journalist writing this book get it SO WRONG???

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/fleetwood-mac-back-on-the-chain-gang-243176/

[StevieandChris]

Why was this thread created?
The "metoo" movement is about rape and sexual assault.
Even if Lindsey did indeed smack Carol Ann and Stevie around, it has nothing to do with the "metoo" movement.
This thread should be deleted.
Lindsey isn't a rapist.

I agree. I have little trouble believing he smacked Carol Ann around and possibly Stevie even after the New Zealand incident but I have never heard of a sexual assault allegation.

[gldstwmn]

I don't know - there's always something so pathetic and stalkerly about these people who were connected to the band, not for their talent, but because they were groupies who found a way in.
I've heard from a lot of credible people that her book is garbage and should have been in check out lines at mainstream grocery stores instead of book stores or on amazon.

Probably some of the very same folks who claimed he never hit her at all... They and you know who they are.

[StevieandChris]

Does anyone think maybe the rest of the band was happy to see him go because he was just a really big a-hole?

Disagree about the metoo angle but his being an a-hole is definitely one a factor of him being fired, despite what others post here. Otherwise this would not have happened.

[gldstwmn]

I heard he was fired because he suggested that they might purchase the babies of the poor in each city they visited on tour and cook them for dinner; he argued that this would not only save money on catering, but also help the economy by reducing the number of people on Welfare long-term in addition to the immediate cash benefit for the mothers.

He likes to do things concurrently.

This sounds like one of Lindsey's speeches. :laugh:

[dreamsunwind]

This thread should be deleted because the me too movement isn't about domestic violence. That is a serious issue don't get me wrong, but that just isn't what the movement is really advocating about, they're very different issues.

And either way I don't think what he did back then has anything at all to do with this situation. They would've fired him back then if they really cared about that type of thing. Not when he's almost 70 and has been married for 20 years and has a bunch of teenage kids.

[HomerMcvie]

This thread should be deleted because the me too movement isn't about domestic violence. That is a serious issue don't get me wrong, but that just isn't what the movement is really advocating about, they're very different issues.

And either way I don't think what he did back then has anything at all to do with this situation. They would've fired him back then if they really cared about that type of thing. Not when he's almost 70 and has been married for 20 years and has a bunch of teenage kids.

I agree. It's obscene having his name associated with this thread. Was he ever an a**hole? Yeah. There's a HUGE difference between that and sexual assault.

But there are a few people here on a witch hunt, who don't mind dragging his name through the mud, all for the purpose of raising up their delusional queen.

This thread needs to be gone.

[HejiraNYC]

"Meticulously researched" -hahahaha, it is so poorly researched it makes my blood boil. This kicking incident for one was NOT in Wellington, NOT in Australia at all, but AUCKLAND...its very easy to find the correct location if you spend 3 seconds on Google.

Nice try.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=10986356

Legendary New Zealand bluesman Hammond Gamble and his band, Street Talk, was the support act that night...
I gave Hammond a call this week... he remembered the important stuff.
"They were arguing among themselves," he said. "We were told to leave them alone and don't get near them." Hammond said the gig that followed at Western Springs was a good concert but Wellington was most definitely "meltdown night".


And as for LB denying or not remembering this incident taking place, please refer to the interview below when Lindsey ADMITS how unprofessional his behaviour was and that Clapton was considered as his replacement. How can a journalist writing this book get it SO WRONG???


Again, nice try. :rolleyes:


Without quite denying such incidents, Buckingham looks genuinely a bit puzzled to hear them played back. “What I do remember,” he says, “is a show where I purposely sang much of the set out of tune. We got offstage, and everyone was irate, obviously. They were talking about firing me and getting Clapton. Very well-founded, because it was not a professional thing to do.”

Not a word about mocking Stevie, kicking Stevie or chucking a guitar at Stevie. So, yes, the biography was correct - he's still in denial. :rolleyes: Also, I had no idea they considered replacing him with God, er, Clapton :shocked:. I... just... couldn't imagine. I am in such awe of his incredible body of work. Admittedly, Clapton was completely f***ed out of his gourd on drugs and alcohol at the time, so even if they were able to line that up, it would have probably combusted at some point.

[DownOnRodeo]

I heard he was fired because he suggested that they might purchase the babies of the poor in each city they visited on tour and cook them for dinner; he argued that this would not only save money on catering, but also help the economy by reducing the number of people on Welfare long-term in addition to the immediate cash benefit for the mothers.

"Whatsa menu?"
"Baby."
(beat)
"Whatsa menu?"
"Baby."
(beat)
"Whatsamenu?"
"... Baby! Baby!"

[Andyleo]

Worst thread ever! Please...smh

[g. fish]

So who's the one with anger management issues?

"I think I got up and ran across the room and tried to kill him. I ran and attacked him." Stevie Nicks, Behind the Music

[DownOnRodeo]

So who's the one with anger management issues?

"I think I got up and ran across the room and tried to kill him. I ran and attacked him." Stevie Nicks, Behind the Music

Thank you, that's the one I was thinking of!

[singertobe]

Thank you. Also Carol has said she is writing a follow up. She showed up on Facebook after a long absence due to some health issues. I asked if she was writing the book still but didn't get response.

Carol is on Facebook? Has anyone asked her what she thinks of Lindsey being fired? I'm so curious.

[AnthonyMI]

I dont think this is a 100% bad thread. Yes, the Pound Sign Me Too movement is allowing people with legitimate and fabricated and halfsided stories to be heard. Some people have been exposed for being horrible humans and some innocent men have been slandered by attention seekers. Many of the attention seekers themselves have been exposed as guilty of the very same crimes they are accusing others of. I forget her name but there is that one who was sleeping with a minor, knew it, and had her boyfriend pay him off for his silence, then the boyfriend committed suicide? And then she denied it but they found texts showing she knew she was doing it yet she proceeded to rally people against Wienstien. Yah. GREAT role models some of these MeToo movement people are.


Stevie could write and sing a new song. “Trashy people. Trashy problems.”

[HomerMcvie]

Carol is on Facebook? Has anyone asked her what she thinks of Lindsey being fired? I'm so curious.

Yes, she is. She recently posted that she'd had some health problems, but was back with us.

[bombaysaffires]

I dont think this is a 100% bad thread. Yes, the Pound Sign Me Too movement is allowing people with legitimate and fabricated and halfsided stories to be heard. Some people have been exposed for being horrible humans and some innocent men have been slandered by attention seekers. Many of the attention seekers themselves have been exposed as guilty of the very same crimes they are accusing others of. I forget her name but there is that one who was sleeping with a minor, knew it, and had her boyfriend pay him off for his silence, then the boyfriend committed suicide? And then she denied it but they found texts showing she knew she was doing it yet she proceeded to rally people against Wienstien. Yah. GREAT role models some of these MeToo movement people are.


Stevie could write and sing a new song. “Trashy people. Trashy problems.”

yes that's the disgusting Asia Argento who convinced Anthony Bourdain to pay off her accuser since she's broke.

[Angel75]

Nice try.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503462&objectid=10986356

Legendary New Zealand bluesman Hammond Gamble and his band, Street Talk, was the support act that night...
I gave Hammond a call this week... he remembered the important stuff.
"They were arguing among themselves," he said. "We were told to leave them alone and don't get near them." Hammond said the gig that followed at Western Springs was a good concert but Wellington was most definitely "meltdown night".




Again, nice try. :rolleyes:




Not a word about mocking Stevie, kicking Stevie or chucking a guitar at Stevie. So, yes, the biography was correct - he's still in denial. :rolleyes: Also, I had no idea they considered replacing him with God, er, Clapton :shocked:. I... just... couldn't imagine. I am in such awe of his incredible body of work. Admittedly, Clapton was completely f***ed out of his gourd on drugs and alcohol at the time, so even if they were able to line that up, it would have probably combusted at some point.

The NZ Herald is a reputable paper and I don't deny that Street Talk may be correct but this is a recently written article so who has the best memory....it's questionable the band does but Mick, Chris, Stevie, CAH and many others recall it being Auckland.......?

And why the nice try dig? I am saying he doesn't actually deny it....he doesn't. He probably doesn't genuinely remember but he doesn't say it NEVER happened....that article was 1997....in 2013 he actually does deny it/ says out right he doesn't remember it at all :shrug:

[button-lip]

Worst thread ever! Please...smh

I agree. I don't see the point of bringing back this thread other than to give Lindsey's haters a chance to trash him. :shrug::shrug:

[button-lip]

What about Billy Burnette's recent post about Stevie being violent as well? He said he saw her pick up a chair and throw it at Chris during an argument.

How does that fit in with your scenario?

I have no patience for abuse from any sex to anyone of any other sex.

Really? That's interesting....

[bwboy]

And as I said before, Billy Burnette posted about Stevie throwing a chair at Chris. No Stevie lovers are talking about that, funny thing.

I'd never heard this before! Wonder why Billy didn't mention it in his book? What all did he say? When did it happen and what made Stevie so mad? What did Christine do in response?

[elle]

I'd never heard this before! Wonder why Billy didn't mention it in his book? What all did he say? When did it happen and what made Stevie so mad? What did Christine do in response?

maybe we should make a thread about it to find out more?

[TheWildHeart67]

Lovethemac1, can you post a link to the post from Billy? Let's start a new thread for it though. This thread should die. Lindsey isn't a metoo sex offender

[elle]

Lovethemac1, can you post a link to the post from Billy? Let's start a new thread for it though. This thread should die. Lindsey isn't a metoo sex offender

i just started a new thread for it.

[dreamsunwind]

So who's the one with anger management issues?

"I think I got up and ran across the room and tried to kill him. I ran and attacked him." Stevie Nicks, Behind the Music

Well Stevie has admitted that she did bad things when she was jacked up on cocaine/klonopin. She never really went into detail about it and she probably doesn't even remember all the things she did but it's not hard to believe someone with as serious of addictions as she had having some bad moments. I still don't think it's really correct or appropriate to compare that to the things Lindsey did to his romantic partner or partners. Either way these issues shouldn't just be thrown around as bargaining chips when arguing about why someone got fired or not, they're serious problems that these people had in those crazy times.

[lovethemac1]

Lovethemac1, can you post a link to the post from Billy? Let's start a new thread for it though. This thread should die. Lindsey isn't a metoo sex offender

On a hunt for it now. I'm not super techie, but I will report back as to whether it was Instagram or Twitter. And I will report what I find in the thread that was made for this topic.

[lovethemac1]

Ok, so I found evidence of it on Twitter, but I think the original tweet has been deleted. I just put in the search box of Twitter "stevie chair chris"

October 12/18, it was commented to 7 people "Did you see the tweet from Billy Burnette about Stevie throwing a chair at Chris? I just retweeted it. I read it this morning and I kept thinking maybe that's why Chris left." 7:32 pm 12 Oct 18 (This is not my account, btw.)

It does appear Billy's original tweet has been deleted tho.

Apologies, wrong thread to put this in. Have copied to the thread about this topic.

[gldstwmn]

Carol is on Facebook? Has anyone asked her what she thinks of Lindsey being fired? I'm so curious.

I haven't seen anyone ask her.

[gldstwmn]

I dont think this is a 100% bad thread. Yes, the Pound Sign Me Too movement is allowing people with legitimate and fabricated and halfsided stories to be heard. Some people have been exposed for being horrible humans and some innocent men have been slandered by attention seekers. Many of the attention seekers themselves have been exposed as guilty of the very same crimes they are accusing others of. I forget her name but there is that one who was sleeping with a minor, knew it, and had her boyfriend pay him off for his silence, then the boyfriend committed suicide? And then she denied it but they found texts showing she knew she was doing it yet she proceeded to rally people against Wienstien. Yah. GREAT role models some of these MeToo movement people are.


Stevie could write and sing a new song. “Trashy people. Trashy problems.”

Asia Argento and Anthony Bourdain. She is a horrible human being and basically killed Tony without actually committing the act. The whole thing was a travesty.