Why didn't FM sue Lindsey when he left them in 1987?

[bwboy]

Would they have had a case? Probably not, unless contracts had been signed. If so, they would have had a good case. Unless they just respected his decision. Why force somebody to do something they don't really want to do?

I have a feeling that his leaving the band on the eve of a nationwide tour back in 1987 is going to be brought up in this lawsuit. They're going to say he deserted them once after a disagreement, so they fired him before he could do it again. Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's no way that incident isn't going to be brought up by the band.

[HomerMcvie]

Because he WILLINGLY left.

[Feather Blade]

Because he WILLINGLY left.

Yes, but breach of contract on a tour would still be an issue. I believe that is the point bwboy is making.

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, but breach of contract on a tour would still be an issue. I believe that is the point bwboy is making.

I don't think we were quite as litigious back then. I'm sure they would NOW.

[Feather Blade]

I don't think we were quite as litigious back then. I'm sure they would NOW.

I agree with you on that. As a society we do seem to have become litigious in general. Bad news for everyone but the lawyers.

[bwboy]

Yes, he left willingly, but his decision could have cost the rest of the band millions of dollars... when you thnk about it, it's pretty incredible how quickly FM was able to replace Lindsey. If I recall, they had at least 8 weeks of dates committed for the tour that Lindsey had agreed to, and then he dropped out. And I'm not saying he was wrong to do so, but that's what happened.

Yeah, a lot of laundry is going to be washed in the public, but FM is definitely going to bring what he did in 1987 up. They're going to say they figured Lindsey was going to do in 2018 what he did in 1987, so they just beat him to the punch. The fact that he asked for a few months extension or whatever will likely lend credence to their defense.

[FuzzyPlum]

It's hard to imagine them being bigger b******s than they are now, but if they'd sued him in 87 it would have been really sh!tty. Lindsey had just spent a couple of years crafting an album for them. This dragged Mick out of a financial mess. He endured a bunch of drugged up a$$holes and with Stevie's contributions literally polished a turd. I can imagine them being annoyed but I'd like to think they owed him a lot and deep down respected what he'd done for them.

[dreamsunwind]

Because they were all too drunk/high/stoned/bankrupt to pull themselves together enough to sue someone?

[rhiannondontgo]

Because they preferred to just be productive and move on with their careers rather than get tied up in pointless legal drama. Maybe LB should take notes.

[SteveMacD]

Because he voluntarily opted out of touring income and revenue. The band was already planning on having Billy Burnette be a backing musician, so it was a fairly easy transition.

[michelej1]

Lindsey had not yet signed to tour in 1987. He would not commit.

[bwboy]

Lindsey had not yet signed to tour in 1987. He would not commit.

Hmmm... I feel certain Mick said in his book the rest of the band wanted to go on a long world tour but Lindsey only agreed to tour for a few months in America, so they agreed to that and actually set up dates and venues. Perhaps it was only an oral agreement? Or Mick was lying, or I'm misremembering, and I don't have the book anymore so I can't double check. But the tour dates were announced at almost the same time it was announced Lindsey quit and Rick and Billy joined, so it seemed like the band just added many more dates to what was already planned.

[dreamsunwind]

Hmmm... I feel certain Mick said in his book the rest of the band wanted to go on a long world tour but Lindsey only agreed to tour for a few months in America, so they agreed to that and actually set up dates and venues. Perhaps it was only an oral agreement? Or Mick was lying, or I'm misremembering, and I don't have the book anymore so I can't double check. But the tour dates were announced at almost the same time it was announced Lindsey quit and Rick and Billy joined, so it seemed like the band just added many more dates to what was already planned.

I believe it's implied it was an oral agreement. For a while he was saying he wasn't sure, then he said he'd do it, then he didn't show up to a meeting, then he backed out. He had never actually signed on the dotted line which is why they were all anxious.

[SteveMacD]

Lindsey had not yet signed to tour in 1987. He would not commit.

He verbally committed at one point.

[bwboy]

I believe it's implied it was an oral agreement. For a while he was saying he wasn't sure, then he said he'd do it, then he didn't show up to a meeting, then he backed out. He had never actually signed on the dotted line which is why they were all anxious.

Thanks dreamsunwind... what you said jibes with my admittedly failing memory. Lindsey agreed to tour, then no showed for a meeting, then it culminated in the infamous last meeting at someone's house where he and Stevie argued and he left. An oral agreement in 1987... and it sounds like none of them really changed their way of doing business in 2018 and depended on an oral agreement then, too :(

[button-lip]

Because they preferred to just be productive and move on with their careers rather than get tied up in pointless legal drama. Maybe LB should take notes.

Oh, but Lindsey wants to be productive with the band. They just don't let him. So in that case, he should sue and ask for his share, right? That's also moving on. :rolleyes:

[SorcererJP]

In 1987 they were all just around 40 years old .. still a whole life ahead of them. They only played for 12 years in this line-up. Rumours was just a decade ago .. so they probably only had to look forward and thought .. ok ... just another line-up change ... let's have fun performing and let him go his way ... so no reason for a law-suit.

[aleuzzi]

Many have stated clear reasons above. Another one is that he had just finished producing and arranging a hit album for them, one that was originally part of his solo project. He had already gone beyond what he had intended to do and was not particularly motivated in touring to recoup Mick’s lost millions. Even if they brought him to court for bailing, their reasons for doing it would have made themselves look pretty bad. They would have likely lost, even if he had signed something. But he hadn’t.

[Stormwind]

They owed him, he alone morphed a solo album in the band second most successful album. Lindsey could have refused,saying he could not work in an enviroment like that (TITN recording sessions were painful for him). Mick recovered from the bankrupt thanks to him; Fleetwood Mac was losing momentum, but TITN succedeed to make them global superstars again (it was even successful in Italy, my country where they aren't that known). So, even being angry at him, at the end of the tour they probably understood what a crucial point Tango In The Night was for their carreer. A very successful album with strong record sales for a tour: seems a fair deal to me.

[dontlookdown]

Yes, but breach of contract on a tour would still be an issue. I believe that is the point bwboy is making.

He quit the band before tour plans were made. There were no dates set when he left in ‘87.

[FuzzyPlum]

He quit the band before tour plans were made. There were no dates set when he left in ‘87.


I'm not sure that can be the case. Didn't Stevie say something along the lines of 'That's so unprofessional. You just don't do that to promoters'
or something along those lines. Wouldn't that have suggested dates had already been lined up?

[paleshadow]

He quit the band before tour plans were made. There were no dates set when he left in ‘87.


I'm not positive since it was so long ago and I was only 16, but I think I already had tickets for a show in Boston when they had the press conference announcing he had left. I kind of remember freaking out that the tour would be cancelled. Again, can't rely on my memory anymore. ;)

[NotonRodeo]

I may be mistaken, but didn't Mick emphatically write in one of his books that Lindsey did not leave voluntarily in 1987, he was fired? (That was the same book in which I read Lindsey called the Goat Queen a "schizophrenic bitch", and things got ugly from there. Truth hurts :thumbsup: ) I also recall a joke that John told Lindsey to leave, and Lindsey took it to mean he was being told to leave the band, whereas John was merely asking him to leave the house. Of course Mick may have been his mendacious self, and everyone seems to have revised history to say that Lindsey voluntarily left in 1987, but who knows with this band.

So if he was fired, he could not be sued for not participating in the tour, since he was unable to perform his obligations because he was no longer in the band. Again, I may be mistaken, but these things stick in my mind, though don't ask me what I had for dinner two days ago :D

[SteveMacD]

Just because tickets aren’t on sale to the public doesn’t mean that dates aren’t booked. Tours take months to plan. Lindsey potentially put them in a bind, but I think Mick saw it coming and already had a contingency plan worked out in his head.

[SteveMacD]

I may be mistaken, but didn't Mick emphatically write in one of his books that Lindsey did not leave voluntarily in 1987, he was fired? (That was the same book in which I read Lindsey called the Goat Queen a "schizophrenic bitch", and things got ugly from there. Truth hurts :thumbsup: ) I also recall a joke that John told Lindsey to leave, and Lindsey took it to mean he was being told to leave the band, whereas John was merely asking him to leave the house. Of course Mick may have been his mendacious self, and everyone seems to have revised history to say that Lindsey voluntarily left in 1987, but who knows with this band.

So if he was fired, he could not be sued for not participating in the tour, since he was unable to perform his obligations because he was no longer in the band. Again, I may be mistaken, but these things stick in my mind, though don't ask me what I had for dinner two days ago :D
The blowout in 1987 at Christine’s house started because Lindsey told them he wasn’t going to do the tour. But, it was pretty clear from his interviews at the time that he was leaving.

[David]

I may be mistaken, but didn't Mick emphatically write in one of his books that Lindsey did not leave voluntarily in 1987, he was fired? (That was the same book in which I read Lindsey called the Goat Queen a "schizophrenic bitch", and things got ugly from there. Truth hurts :thumbsup: ) I also recall a joke that John told Lindsey to leave, and Lindsey took it to mean he was being told to leave the band, whereas John was merely asking him to leave the house. Of course Mick may have been his mendacious self, and everyone seems to have revised history to say that Lindsey voluntarily left in 1987, but who knows with this band.
Lots of different takes floating around on that one. Mick's book (My Life and Adventures in Fleetwood Mac) wasn't published until 1990. But tons of articles from 1987 to 1989 painted a varying picture. Remember the Musician cover story by Timothy White in 1989? When Lindsey left the band in 1987, he specifically left because he finally decided he didn't want to tour. Unfortunately for everybody, he made that final decision after dates had been booked and the whole machine set into motion. Did Lindsey believe that the band would cancel the tour or find new blood and do the tour? I think it was the former. He was not expecting the addition of replacement members (replacements for him) until it happened. Earlier in the year, he knew that Burnette might join the touring band, but not as Lindsey's own replacement. In those days, you could say "I'm done with Fleetwood Mac," but not really mean it permanently.

[David]

The blowout in 1987 at Christine’s house started because Lindsey told them he wasn’t going to do the tour. But, it was pretty clear from his interviews at the time that he was leaving. I agree with the reason you give for the blowout, but I disagree that Lindsey's departure was "clear." (If his imminent departure was clear, there wouldn't have been a blowout.) I was a Machead in 1987, very avidly following the band's every reported move and very tuned in to the Fleetwood Mac zeitgeist. In the media, Lindsey was coming across as torn—emotionally ambivalent. You knew there was something wrong, but some of it seemed very similar to the stretch of time after Mirage, too, with everyone in the group retreating to separate corners. At the Get Tough on Toxics concert the previous August, it was already obvious there was trouble in paradise—a Lindsey set and a Stevie set (with Mick) that were totally separated in time, space, and spirit, allayed somewhat by Lindsey's own words about the album being almost finished and a "healing" thing for the group. I was there that night. Everybody thought it odd that Mick Fleetwood (for God's sake) wasn't playing drums for I'm So Afraid.

The night Lindsey's departure was publicized on MTV—sometime in August 1987—the channel premiered the Little Lies video. ALL the fans thought the video symbolized or foreshadowed the break.

That summer, Lindsey never told the press flat out, "I'm leaving." He told the press, "Who knows? I may leave. I have solo recording plans and that's where my focus is now. I'm not really concerned about Fleetwood Mac's plans." It was just like what we'd been hearing from various band members after the 1980 tour and again after the 1982 album. The first half of the Eighties were spent wondering whether the band was still a band. That sensation never diminished. I distinctly recall it.

[Macfan4life]

Lindsey never fully committed to tour in 1987. Some of the promoters were busy planning and expecting a tour. You cant set up a tour at the last minute. I clearly remember listening to a Fleetwood Mac radio Tango in the Night promotion. It was a 2 hour promo with interview with all the band members. Big Love was just released as a single. Lindsey was asked directly about a tour and he said something like "there are no plans yet but there is silence on this issue. Then he laughingly said I don't know what that silence means so its possible."
To sue someone civilly you must claim damages. What would be Fleetwood Mac's damages? Lets be real, the band did not pay Rick and Billy as much as they would Lindsey. In addition, the "Shake the Cage Tour" was quite extensive. I don't think Lindsey would have agreed to such a long world tour. Long story short, the band made more money than if Lindsey stayed. Lindsey would have responded to their complaint with plenty of ammo. Mick bought drugs in his driveway while recording Tango. Stevie was such a mess. He did not want to be around the substance abusers.
I really doubt the band wanted this openly discussed in the public. Most important. Its really hard if not impossible to keep someone in a band they no longer want to be a part of. Even Mick admits that one reason Lindsey did Tango was to help Mick get out of bankruptcy and legacy for the band. He sacrificed his own solo album for Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey lost millions of dollars for not touring in 1987-1988. His sanity was worth more than money.
There was no contract to tour. The band had no damages. The band was grateful for Lindsey turning his solo album into a hit Mac album.
Tango In the Night recordings: Hadn't Lindsey suffered enough :eek:

[bwboy]

Lindsey never fully committed to tour in 1987. Some of the promoters were busy planning and expecting a tour. You cant set up a tour at the last minute. I clearly remember listening to a Fleetwood Mac radio Tango in the Night promotion. It was a 2 hour promo with interview with all the band members. Big Love was just released as a single. Lindsey was asked directly about a tour and he said something like "there are no plans yet but there is silence on this issue. Then he laughingly said I don't know what that silence means so its possible."
In addition, the "Shake the Cage Tour" was quite extensive. I don't think Lindsey would have agreed to such a long world tour.

Sorry Macfan4life, but I remember reading several interviews, reviews, and articles about FM in 1987, and my memory jibes with David. I agree Lindsey never agreed to such a long world tour- he agreed to an 8 week tour of the US or something to that effect. It was a compromise for all of them. I totally accept that Lindsey made those comments in March when Big Love was released, but Lindsey didn't leave the band until August. Lindsey had agreed to a short US tour sometime after March, probably in June or July, and the tour scheduling started. As noted by others here, these tours are planned way ahead. When Lindsey backed out of the tour in August, FM added Billy and Rick as replacements and added on to the dates already scheduled by their people, so to speak. Lindsey had also agreed to adding other musicians to the tour, which against shows he was planning to tour with the band initially.

[Macfan4life]

Sorry Macfan4life, but I remember reading several interviews, reviews, and articles about FM in 1987, and my memory jibes with David. I agree Lindsey never agreed to such a long world tour- he agreed to an 8 week tour of the US or something to that effect. It was a compromise for all of them. I totally accept that Lindsey made those comments in March when Big Love was released, but Lindsey didn't leave the band until August. Lindsey had agreed to a short US tour sometime after March, probably in June or July, and the tour scheduling started. As noted by others here, these tours are planned way ahead. When Lindsey backed out of the tour in August, FM added Billy and Rick as replacements and added on to the dates already scheduled by their people, so to speak. Lindsey had also agreed to adding other musicians to the tour, which against shows he was planning to tour with the band initially.
Sorry but you are incorrect.
No signed contract agreeing to any such tour.
No tour rehearsals preparing for such tour.
No public statements about any such tour.
No tour dates announced.

Let me put the icing on this cake. There was a Christine interview (1987) that many disbelieved until I posted it here (still on youtube) in which Christine stated the inspiration for Little Lies was Lindsey's upcoming departure. She said he never came out and said he was leaving but she knew and other members knew he was leaving. The little lies are his continual beating around the bush, which is EXACTLY what he did about this tour. He never 100% committed. He spoke about things he would want IF the tour happened. You and others can speculate and assume this means he has agreed to a tour if you mention certain requirements i.e. wanting another guitarist etc. The big machine was moving along assuming this was going to happen. He never signed on the dotted line and never fully committed.

The inspiration for Lindsey's song WRONG was Mick's book. He paints a picture of Stevie trying to convince Lindsey to tour and she freaked out when he refused. I don't think there would be a meeting at Christine's house trying to convince him to tour if he obligated himself to such a tour. Mick cant have it both ways. I believe Lindsey and not Mick. The band knew Lindsey was getting cold feet BECAUSE he HAD NOT fully committed to the tour. It was an attempt to get him to officially agree to the tour because he was giving mixed signals.

Now, never question me again ;)

[cbBen]

I could be wrong, but I believe I recently read that the California law making oral contracts enforceable took effect in the nineties. That would explain why Lindsey might now have a case against the band based on oral promises, but the reverse would not be true in 1987.

[cbBen]

FM filled big venues even without Lindsey, so what did the damages really amount to?

[jcalzaretta]

Oral contracts can be binding. Interesting question to ask. He really screwed them over back then from what I can remember.

[David]

Oral contracts can be binding. Interesting question to ask. He really screwed them over back then from what I can remember.
On the other hand, Tango in the Night sold 6 or 7 million (or something like that) worldwide. There would have been no album had it not been for his handiwork. That's a lot of money.