View Full Version : Stevie Nicks Always Wanted Mike Campbell in FM???
https://youtu.be/PT7vC8CuOdM
Some have suspected this. He mentions Nightbird sounding like a Heartbreakers song in this video. He posted about this elsewhere but I couldn't find it.
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I remember watching one of this guy's videos right after Lindsey was fired. He was fairly nonchalant about it-- chalking it up to the usual FM drama, Lindsey left before and they survived, and the addition of capable musicians. His perspective has really changed over time. Just the video titles alone indicate this: "Is FM In Damage Control", "Stevie Nicks Should Have Toughed It Out". I know he got major backlash in the comment sections early on. It's interesting to see the evolution of his viewpoint since he doesn't seem like a FM fanatic.
sodascouts
08-01-2018, 04:57 AM
Lola, you do realize this is just some random dude with no insider knowledge filming himself in his living room, right? Why is the stuff he pulls out of his a$$ worthy of its own thread? As you yourself say, he's not even much of a fan! These titles should at least be phrased as "There's a random guy who thinks that Stevie Nicks always wanted Mike Campbell in Fleetwood Mac" to show that they're not based on comments by someone in the know, as most would assume when they read the title.
Lola, you do realize this is just some random dude with no insider knowledge filming himself in his living room, right? Why is the stuff he pulls out of his a$$ worthy of its own thread? As you yourself say, he's not even much of a fan! These titles should at least be phrased as "There's a random guy who thinks that Stevie Nicks always wanted Mike Campbell in Fleetwood Mac" to show that they're not based on comments by someone in the know, as most would assume when they read the title.
Just thought it was interesting, nothing more. I'll try to be more descriptive in the title--question marks didn't work. He is a random guy no doubt but I didn't get to that part till after the video. Mods can delete this thread. I work nights and sometimes this kind of stuff happens with me in the middle of my shift when I'm getting tired :p
sodascouts
08-01-2018, 05:38 AM
Just thought it was interesting, nothing more. I'll try to be more descriptive in the title--question marks didn't work. He is a random guy no doubt but I didn't get to that part till after the video. Mods can delete this thread. I work nights and sometimes this kind of stuff happens with me in the middle of my shift when I'm getting tired :p
Sorry if I sounded harsh, but the last thread sparked people all over Facebook talking about how FM was going to tour with Journey, as if "industry insiders" had talked about it and it seriously might happen!
button-lip
08-01-2018, 06:29 AM
Just thought it was interesting, nothing more. I'll try to be more descriptive in the title--question marks didn't work. He is a random guy no doubt but I didn't get to that part till after the video. Mods can delete this thread. I work nights and sometimes this kind of stuff happens with me in the middle of my shift when I'm getting tired :p
It’s interesting, and yes, I think this was planned, at least since Tom’s death. No grieving involved, of course. And Lindsey (for those who have forgotten it, the victim here), never saw it coming.
You did nothing wrong. Stevie did. ;)
Sorry if I sounded harsh, but the last thread sparked people all over Facebook talking about how FM was going to tour with Journey, as if "industry insiders" had talked about it and it seriously might happen!
OMG!! I don't do Facebook so I had no idea. Holy crap!
Macfan4life
08-01-2018, 07:12 AM
I cant even watch or listen to this guy because it takes him forever to make one point plus those sunglasses are so dorky.
He has no insider information and he is talking his opinion only.
So Stevie conspired to make Nightbird sound like a Hearbreakers song so 40 years later she could fire Lindsey and hire Mike as the replacement.
You lost me on Nightbird sounding like the heartbreakers.
sodascouts
08-01-2018, 07:26 AM
OMG!! I don't do Facebook so I had no idea. Holy crap!
I know! A lot of people just read the title and don't even click on the thread, much less watch the video. People are lazy, lol. So I first read about it on Facebook, presented as something that insiders believed might happen, and I came here to verify the source and was like "ugh."
Plus this particular guy annoys me because he ACTS like he's in the know, but doesn't even get his facts straight, and he steals stuff from message boards without giving credit (you can bet he's visited this one to see where his traffic is coming from). After watching a few vids where he would make downright false statements (Example: Lindsey always wanted to play it safe with setlists and only play the hits), I decided I wouldn't give him any more views.
iamnotafraid
08-02-2018, 02:27 AM
The guy has a hunch, that's good enough for me.
Is this the same guy that slept with Ms. Nicks???
jbrownsjr
08-02-2018, 07:19 AM
I cant even watch or listen to this guy because it takes him forever to make one point plus those sunglasses are so dorky.
He has no insider information and he is talking his opinion only.
So Stevie conspired to make Nightbird sound like a Hearbreakers song so 40 years later she could fire Lindsey and hire Mike as the replacement.
You lost me on Nightbird sounding like the heartbreakers.
This guy is a hack.
iamnotafraid
08-02-2018, 02:54 PM
This guy is a hack.
Bet he's an Auburn fan.
jbrownsjr
08-02-2018, 04:42 PM
Bet he's an Auburn fan.
So is Rusty.
dreamsunwind
08-02-2018, 08:36 PM
I know this is all speculation but I think she really did always want her own 'people' in the FM world. It started way back too, with all the stories about how she'd give all her different girlfriends these random 'jobs' just as a way to bring them on tour with her and they pretty quickly became like an entourage surrounding her constantly And then she successfully got Lori and Sharon to officially be part of their touring band as backup singers. Then there was the whole Sheryl Crow fiasco from when Stevie was pretty tight friends with her. I doubt that prior to Tom's death, she ever thought about bringing Mike into FM but after Tom passed I'm sure she would've jumped at any opportunity to have someone like Mike (who was her friend/collaborator for years as well as a strong connection to Tom) close to her.
Iamwilliame
08-02-2018, 11:36 PM
I've said before, both Lindsey and Stevie have had more than a few instances of being insufferable. I have wondered over the past several months if Stevie was pushing to bring Mike into the touring band as a second guitarist way before Lindsey was fired and that is what really set this whole fiasco into motion. That seems like the kind of totally impulsive thing Stevie Nicks would do following the death of Tom Petty, and I can see Lindsey laughing and telling her and everyone else that it's a crazy idea that will never happen, just like the Sheryl Crow thing. I can hear her now saying to everyone else, "Mike is a fantastic guitarist and songwriter and he is too good not to be in a great band." Mark my word, she will say those exact words in an interview within the next year. I love so much of the music Lindsey and Stevie managed to make together, but they both annoy me to no end.
Angel75
08-03-2018, 02:25 AM
"Mike is a fantastic guitarist and songwriter and he is too good not to be in a great band." Mark my word, she will say those exact words in an interview within the next year. I love so much of the music Lindsey and Stevie managed to make together, but they both annoy me to no end.
It's funny and I agree with you, you can totally imagine her saying this.
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what....so if she wanted him there, then she had to ensure LB was kicked out
David
08-03-2018, 03:46 PM
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what.
I don't know whether it was "no matter what," but she's always been so close to Mike that her wanting him to join seems totally understandable. I can't believe that she intended to oust Lindsey. It seems more reasonable to assume that she wanted to add Mike in part to provide personal support, to balance out the serious-minded, sometimes abrasive Lindsey. When you have to spend time with someone you annoys you or overwhelms you, you tend to want an advocate by your side. It's like going to see a doctor—bring a family member or a friend so that you won't get swamped by a demanding personality telling you what to do.
What doesn't seem quite so understandable
Why didn't she just bring Mike into her solo fold? Stevie Nicks works as often as (if not more than) Fleetwood Mac. Alternatively, Stevie could have asked Mike to join her full time in Stevie Nicks, and then quit Fleetwood Mac.
Why didn't she also push to bring in Benmont? She's as close to Benmont as she is to Mike (which is to say very close musically and personally)?
button-lip
08-03-2018, 05:50 PM
It's funny and I agree with you, you can totally imagine her saying this.
She wanted Mike in the band no matter what....so if she wanted him there, then she had to ensure LB was kicked out
I don't know if that was always her plan. I think once Tom died and after seeing how bands like Eagles and HB could go on without their main members she decided it was time to bring her people in and kick Lindsey out.
Angel75
08-03-2018, 07:34 PM
I don't know whether it was "no matter what," but she's always been so close to Mike that her wanting him to join seems totally understandable. I can't believe that she intended to oust Lindsey. It seems more reasonable to assume that she wanted to add Mike in part to provide personal support, to balance out the serious-minded, sometimes abrasive Lindsey. When you have to spend time with someone you annoys you or overwhelms you, you tend to want an advocate by your side. It's like going to see a doctor—bring a family member or a friend so that you won't get swamped by a demanding personality telling you what to do.
What doesn't seem quite so understandable
Why didn't she just bring Mike into her solo fold? Stevie Nicks works as often as (if not more than) Fleetwood Mac. Alternatively, Stevie could have asked Mike to join her full time in Stevie Nicks, and then quit Fleetwood Mac.
Why didn't she also push to bring in Benmont? She's as close to Benmont as she is to Mike (which is to say very close musically and personally)?
Perhaps that was a little bit too severe, saying she wanted Mike in no matter what but to me it did seem so very premeditated on her part. But I agree with you exactly why not bring Mike and Benmont into her solo band....?
Angel75
08-03-2018, 07:35 PM
I don't know if that was always her plan. I think once Tom died and after seeing how bands like Eagles and HB could go on without their main members she decided it was time to bring her people in and kick Lindsey out.
Yes I agree, that once Tom died she was calculating various scenarios of how to bring her people in at Lindsey's expense.
I know this is all speculation but I think she really did always want her own 'people' in the FM world. It started way back too, with all the stories about how she'd give all her different girlfriends these random 'jobs' just as a way to bring them on tour with her and they pretty quickly became like an entourage surrounding her constantly And then she successfully got Lori and Sharon to officially be part of their touring band as backup singers. Then there was the whole Sheryl Crow fiasco from when Stevie was pretty tight friends with her. I doubt that prior to Tom's death, she ever thought about bringing Mike into FM but after Tom passed I'm sure she would've jumped at any opportunity to have someone like Mike (who was her friend/collaborator for years as well as a strong connection to Tom) close to her.
I can't see anything wrong with wanting to work with friends, and take them on the road with you.
HomerMcvie
08-31-2018, 08:42 AM
I can't see anything wrong with wanting to work with friends, and take them on the road with you.
But firing the REASON FM has stayed relevant for 43 years isn't the way to go about that.
IT'S FLEETWOOD F*CKING MAC. Let her hire her friend$ for her $olo tour$.
But firing the REASON FM has stayed relevant for 43 years isn't the way to go about that.
IT'S FLEETWOOD F*CKING MAC. Let her hire her friend$ for her $olo tour$.
Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.
FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.
It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.
Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.
HomerMcvie
08-31-2018, 08:56 AM
Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.
FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.
It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.
Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.
Gee, thank$ for the Engli$h lesson, and the conde$cending, $elf righteou$ attitude. :wavey:
Gee, thank$ for the Engli$h lesson, and the conde$cending, $elf righteou$ attitude. :wavey:
Perhaps if you'd actually discussed the point in a reasonable constructive manner you would have a reply more to your liking.
HomerMcvie
08-31-2018, 09:04 AM
Perhaps if you'd actually discussed the point in a reasonable constructive manner you would have a reply more to your liking.
Perhap$ you think I'm concerned.
Perhap$ you think I'm concerned.
You were certainly concerned enough to reply. It appears to me that you are attempting to get the last word when you haven't actually yet contributed anything of substance in this exchange. Perhaps you should concentrate on the content of what you write rather than whether it was the last thing written.
Let's see if you can address a point. You claim that Lindsey is the reason why Fleetwood Mac has stayed relevant for 43 years. But, as I pointed out, the rest of the band don't necessarily think so. As an example, Lindsey's contributed arrangement and production work is often quoted as his biggest contribution to the band as the other songwriters contributed most of the hits. Now, I think that his arrangement and production work is great and that Stevie never sounds better than as when she's produced by Lindsey. E.g. I really like SYW. However, we know that Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's production. Clearly her personal evaluation of the importance of Lindsey in the band does not match yours. It's the band's choice what they do, particularly at their time of life. No-one else's.
Given that Lindsey is no longer in the band, they needed replacements. It's reasonable to work with people who are both talented and friends.
HomerMcvie
08-31-2018, 09:42 AM
You were certainly concerned enough to reply. It appears to me that you are attempting to get the last word when you haven't actually yet contributed anything of substance in this exchange. Perhaps you should concentrate on the content of what you write rather than whether it was the last thing written.
Let's see if you can address a point. You claim that Lindsey is the reason why Fleetwood Mac has stayed relevant for 43 years. But, as I pointed out, the rest of the band don't necessarily think so. As an example, Lindsey's contributed arrangement and production work is often quoted as his biggest contribution to the band as the other songwriters contributed most of the hits. Now, I think that his arrangement and production work is great and that Stevie never sounds better than as when she's produced by Lindsey. E.g. I really like SYW. However, we know that Stevie doesn't like Lindsey's production. Clearly her personal evaluation of the importance of Lindsey in the band does not match yours. It's the band's choice what they do, particularly at their time of life. No-one else's.
Given that Lindsey is no longer in the band, they needed replacements. It's reasonable to work with people who are both talented and friends.
Well, given that $tevie has no interest in recording now, and that $he can't stand Lindsey, that makes his great producing skills far less valuable, now that they're officially an oldies act(no new music, just teat milking).
I firmly believe $he issued the "it's him or me" ultimatum. Mick chose his ca$h cow. Like he could ever make any other choice, being the cheap whore that he is.
That said, Lindsey's playing is THE SOUND of FM. I mean, they'll still have the bleating going for them, but his guitar style IS their sound.
Well, given that $tevie has no interest in recording now, and that $he can't stand Lindsey, that makes his great producing skills far less valuable, now that they're officially an oldies act(no new music, just teat milking).
This is reasonable. We know that Stevie doesn't want to work with Lindsey which is possibly one of the reasons why she didn't join in on the album that became Buckingham/McVie.
Fleetwood Mac tours have been 'play the hits' for a long time now. Even with Lindsey. That's the business they're in, as are many other bands of their era.
The new lineup may shake things up a bit, if comments about playing stuff from more eras in their career come to be. So, the result may be more fresh than the retread going-through-the-numbers we may have gotten otherwise. Not the repeated use of the word 'may' in that sentence.
I firmly believe $he issued the "it's him or me" ultimatum. Mick chose his ca$h cow. Like he could ever make any other choice, being the cheap whore that he is.
Well, people can choose to believe whatever they like. What's more worth actual discussion is if people can support those beliefs with actual evidence and logical argument.
That said, Lindsey's playing is THE SOUND of FM. I mean, they'll still have the bleating going for them, but his guitar style IS their sound.
Lindsey contributed greatly to FM while he was a member. As did the other members. But, it's a band, not just one person.
Lindsey's guitar sound was an important part of FM while he was a member, as was Stevie's and Christine's voices and songwriting, and the rhythm section. Even if we're forgetting the other eras of the band and just concentrating on Rumours, there isn't just one component to their sound. It's a band, with multiple members who contribute distinctive aspects of the sound, and to songwriting and arranging too.
I consider it possible (not 'probable' or 'likely') that part of what has caused the breakdown is Lindsey believing that he 'is' FM in the way that you appear to do. But, I would want to support that with more evidence before attempting to put if forward as a credible factor. Lindsey's comments (apart from the clear comment that this was not his choice) have been frustratingly obscure. E.g. that 'factions' in the band have lost 'perspective' may show this, but to claim his comments mean that would be going ridiculously beyond what the known facts support.
BTW: Name-calling isn't a good way of encouraging people to take you seriously. Mick will clearly have been heavily involved in the decision, but we don't know exactly what role he played nor his reasons for doing so.
HomerMcvie
08-31-2018, 10:18 AM
75% of what we ALL have here is speculation.
Spare me the preachy lectures.
Have a nice day.
75% of what we ALL have here is speculation.
Spare me the preachy lectures.
Have a nice day.
The amount of speculation is far higher than 75%. The problem is that a huge majority of that speculation is presented as fact.
Speculation is fine, provided that it is clearly presented as such. And if someone wildly speculates and then uses that to start name-calling and bashing band members, well then they deserve a bit of preaching.
bombaysaffires
08-31-2018, 01:35 PM
Using swear words and replacing 's' with '$' does not an argument make.
FM reached, in their words, an impasse. Given that they needed replacements for Lindsey if they wanted to continue activity (which we should be thankful for - FM2018 is much better than no FM at all), then hiring talented friends who they know they can with for is a reasonable thing to do.
It is Fleetwood Mac indeed. A band which has reinvented itself with new lineups throughout its 50 year history. With greater and lesser artistic and commercial success. This is just one more step in this process.
Fleetwood Mac was never about any one person. You may say that Fleetwood Mac is just about Lindsey, but clearly the band disagree with you. I'm sorry, but the band's opinion clearly and massively overrides yours.
Many would disagree with the first bit-- better than nothing at all.
It depends on how you feel about the second bit- that they are band reinventing themselves as they've always done.
Because in the past, when new members have come in, it was explicitly for the purpose of the band making new music and going in a new direction. NOT to bring in new members who, for example, would only ever play Peter Green songs over and over. That would not have been a "new" FM it would have been a tribute band. Instead, S&L came in (or Welch etc etc) and brought their new sensibilities to the band and the band veered into a whole new direction. FM with PG is not FM with S&L.
In the current case, no one made the case "oh we brought in Mike and Neil to take us in a new direction" The statement from the band was that they had a tour booked and needed players to help them fulfill that commitment. These guys are being hired to help FM play their existing, historical hits. It's like they are session players for the road.
Now, if this goes well and they decide, hey let's make new music with Mike and Neil, then maybe it will represent a new era in the ongoing FM musical story. So far that hasn't even been said to be the intention.
Plus, if they do in fact make new music and record again etc, and the remaining members of the Rumours5 put out new stuff, why didn't they do it before LB left? LB was never a hindrance to the band putting out new material, on the contrary he ADVOCATED vociferously for it. The stick in the mud, the fly in the ointment to new music was STEVIE. NOT Lindsey.
So if they start making new music NOW, without Lindsey, and Stevie is all onboard about it, what does that tell you? She had just as much opportunity and support to do new music when LB was still there. She chose not to do it. She was adamant about not doing it. Then Lindsey is out, and suddenly she has this magical inspiration to do new music. What does that tell you? She had no desire and made no effort whatsoever to do new music with HIM. All the bs about "the music business" is revealed for what it is. It becomes very, very clear that she withheld her participation, which totally eliminated the chance for growth of the band, because of her personal feelings about him.
Furthermore, reliable sources (people around the band who for obvious reasons don't want their names put out in public-- they still have to work) have indicated that Stevie (in addition to having refused to record with the band since 2003) then gave an ultimatum in which she refused to tour again if LB was still there.
The hypocrisy of them saying "well we're a band and when everyone is on the same page except one person, we have to cut that one person loose" is beyond words. Everyone was on the same page for making a new album except Stevie-- so by their rule, she should have been cut loose. But she wasn't. In fact the record that the other 4 all did together couldn't even get released as FM because of her.
If you can't see the bias in all this behavior, it's because you don't want to. I've been a huge Stevie fan since I was 15 (back in the 70s) so I get how difficult it is to see your idol fall. Or maybe you're a new fan and don't know all the band history. But this action on her part is in line with so much of their historical dynamic. And shame on the rest of them for putting up with it. Why would they?? MONEY. So now we know business trumps all.
And BTW, of course there is speculation here-- IT IS A FAN BOARD. This is not an industry news site; it's a place for fans to come together and talk, speculate, wonder, complain, etc. Never ceases to amaze me that people don't understand wtf a fan board is or what it's for. If you want hard news, go to a hard news site FFS.
Angel75
08-31-2018, 02:53 PM
Many would disagree with the first bit-- better than nothing at all.
It depends on how you feel about the second bit- that they are band reinventing themselves as they've always done.
Because in the past, when new members have come in, it was explicitly for the purpose of the band making new music and going in a new direction. NOT to bring in new members who, for example, would only ever play Peter Green songs over and over. That would not have been a "new" FM it would have been a tribute band. Instead, S&L came in (or Welch etc etc) and brought their new sensibilities to the band and the band veered into a whole new direction. FM with PG is not FM with S&L.
In the current case, no one made the case "oh we brought in Mike and Neil to take us in a new direction" The statement from the band was that they had a tour booked and needed players to help them fulfill that commitment. These guys are being hired to help FM play their existing, historical hits. It's like they are session players for the road.
Now, if this goes well and they decide, hey let's make new music with Mike and Neil, then maybe it will represent a new era in the ongoing FM musical story. So far that hasn't even been said to be the intention.
Plus, if they do in fact make new music and record again etc, and the remaining members of the Rumours5 put out new stuff, why didn't they do it before LB left? LB was never a hindrance to the band putting out new material, on the contrary he ADVOCATED vociferously for it. The stick in the mud, the fly in the ointment to new music was STEVIE. NOT Lindsey.
So if they start making new music NOW, without Lindsey, and Stevie is all onboard about it, what does that tell you? She had just as much opportunity and support to do new music when LB was still there. She chose not to do it. She was adamant about not doing it. Then Lindsey is out, and suddenly she has this magical inspiration to do new music. What does that tell you? She had no desire and made no effort whatsoever to do new music with HIM. All the bs about "the music business" is revealed for what it is. It becomes very, very clear that she withheld her participation, which totally eliminated the chance for growth of the band, because of her personal feelings about him.
Furthermore, reliable sources (people around the band who for obvious reasons don't want their names put out in public-- they still have to work) have indicated that Stevie (in addition to having refused to record with the band since 2003) then gave an ultimatum in which she refused to tour again if LB was still there.
The hypocrisy of them saying "well we're a band and when everyone is on the same page except one person, we have to cut that one person loose" is beyond words. Everyone was on the same page for making a new album except Stevie-- so by their rule, she should have been cut loose. But she wasn't. In fact the record that the other 4 all did together couldn't even get released as FM because of her.
If you can't see the bias in all this behavior, it's because you don't want to. I've been a huge Stevie fan since I was 15 (back in the 70s) so I get how difficult it is to see your idol fall. Or maybe you're a new fan and don't know all the band history. But this action on her part is in line with so much of their historical dynamic. And shame on the rest of them for putting up with it. Why would they?? MONEY. So now we know business trumps all.
Well said ....and yes agreed MONEY trumped at the end of the day
Many would disagree with the first bit-- better than nothing at all.
That's your personal choice. However, there are a lot of people who would prefer some Fleetwood Mac than none. Which will be visible when we see how many tickets they sell on the tours.
It depends on how you feel about the second bit- that they are band reinventing themselves as they've always done.
Because in the past, when new members have come in, it was explicitly for the purpose of the band making new music and going in a new direction. NOT to bring in new members who, for example, would only ever play Peter Green songs over and over. That would not have been a "new" FM it would have been a tribute band. Instead, S&L came in (or Welch etc etc) and brought their new sensibilities to the band and the band veered into a whole new direction. FM with PG is not FM with S&L.
In the current case, no one made the case "oh we brought in Mike and Neil to take us in a new direction" The statement from the band was that they had a tour booked and needed players to help them fulfill that commitment. These guys are being hired to help FM play their existing, historical hits. It's like they are session players for the road.
Now, if this goes well and they decide, hey let's make new music with Mike and Neil, then maybe it will represent a new era in the ongoing FM musical story. So far that hasn't even been said to be the intention.
Well, I would say that even just a tour is a new Fleetwood Mac. New recordings would make this a much much more significant era than just one tour. But as you say we don't know if that will happen.
While it's entirely circumstantial, Neil Finn is not known as a superb guitarist or singer. He's very good at both, but if all they wanted him for was singing and playing, there are better options. What Neil Finn is known as is a songwriter, and Mick has already sat in on Finn recording original material. I'm not saying there's enough there to start assuming that it will happen. But, if it was to happen, then Mick in choosing Finn and Campbell would have chosen very well. Much better than (e.g.) the Time lineup who were excellent players but lacked a bit in the songwriting chops area.
Also, it could possibly (not an assumption, just a possibility) that Mick would like to record another album but that he has to talk Stevie into it. Possibly over time.
Plus, if they do in fact make new music and record again etc, and the remaining members of the Rumours5 put out new stuff, why didn't they do it before LB left? LB was never a hindrance to the band putting out new material, on the contrary he ADVOCATED vociferously for it. The stick in the mud, the fly in the ointment to new music was STEVIE. NOT Lindsey.
The focus at the moment was the tour, not the recording. They recorded Buckingham McVie, which is a FM album in all but name.
So if they start making new music NOW, without Lindsey, and Stevie is all onboard about it, what does that tell you? She had just as much opportunity and support to do new music when LB was still there. She chose not to do it. She was adamant about not doing it. Then Lindsey is out, and suddenly she has this magical inspiration to do new music. What does that tell you? She had no desire and made no effort whatsoever to do new music with HIM. All the bs about "the music business" is revealed for what it is. It becomes very, very clear that she withheld her participation, which totally eliminated the chance for growth of the band, because of her personal feelings about him.
We know that Stevie doesn't want to spend a year in a studio recording an album, and that she doesn't want Lindsey producing her music. There isn't just one reason why she didn't want to record the previous FM album. A lot of the argument here appears to be trying to prove that she's lying based on an assumption of there only being one reason why she didn't record.
If Lindsey is no longer around, then that's one factor different which may help change her mind. For her to want to record again, assuming new songs, then she'd want to write again. Oh, she's going to be on tour with Campbell who she has written with before. And it would probably have to be much less time in the studio. Oh, she's going to be on tour with Neil Finn who recorded an album in a month of Fridays. All recording streamed live on youtube (look up 'Neil Finn The Infinity Sessions'. So, there is at least the possibility that
Furthermore, reliable sources (people around the band who for obvious reasons don't want their names put out in public-- they still have to work) have indicated that Stevie (in addition to having refused to record with the band since 2003) then gave an ultimatum in which she refused to tour again if LB was still there.
There are such claims, but I don't consider unnamed sources reliable. In other contexts they have certainly proved to be unreliable often in the past. And, an important point is when any such ultimatum, if it happened, was given. As we know that negotiations on the tour broke down. So, unless the ultimatum happened well before the negotiations and they were not in good faith, I'm wondering what the ultimatum mean. If the ultimatum occurred after the touring discussion bust-up, then that would fit in with the descriptions of how things happened, and not be an ultimatum coming out of the blue and being the sole cause of the split.
The hypocrisy of them saying "well we're a band and when everyone is on the same page except one person, we have to cut that one person loose" is beyond words. Everyone was on the same page for making a new album except Stevie-- so by their rule, she should have been cut loose. But she wasn't. In fact the record that the other 4 all did together couldn't even get released as FM because of her.
Yes, but we're talking about now. It's not long since the album, but now we're talking about the tour. And, do we know that Stevie blocked the album being attributed to Fleetwood Mac? If so, how? Let me guess - I will be told that I should have searched for evidence further, and there'll only be speculation.
If you can't see the bias in all this behavior, it's because you don't want to. I've been a huge Stevie fan since I was 15 (back in the 70s) so I get how difficult it is to see your idol fall. Or maybe you're a new fan and don't know all the band history. But this action on her part is in line with so much of their historical dynamic. And shame on the rest of them for putting up with it. Why would they?? MONEY. So now we know business trumps all.
I can see the behaviour, but am not extrapolating from it like others. Yes, we know that Stevie doesn't like working with Lindsey. However, we also know that she has many times held her nose and gone out on tour with him.
If they wanted 'MONEY' they would have found some way to go out with Lindsey, as a tour with Lindsey would make more money. Unless they believe that a tour with Lindsey wouldn't happen, then them going out without Lindsey would be a very bad choice.
There seems to be a number of people here on this board who seem to want to put all the blame for the split on one side, and attribute it to evil motives such as $$$MONEY$$$. Rather than the more prosaic reasons of a band part splitting because the members didn't want to work together again, caused by internal friction. Which is a frequent occurrence in the lifetime of bands.
And BTW, of course there is speculation here-- IT IS A FAN BOARD. This is not an industry news site; it's a place for fans to come together and talk, speculate, wonder, complain, etc. Never ceases to amaze me that people don't understand wtf a fan board is or what it's for. If you want hard news, go to a hard news site FFS.
Yes, but there is a difference between speculation, and making conclusions. The latter is happening far too often here based on faulty logic, excessive weight being put on extreme interpretations of what has been said, etc. I have nothing against speculation. Just make sure that you know what is speculation and don't start believing it until the actual evidence, not extrapolations of it, is sufficient.
Well said ....and yes agreed MONEY trumped at the end of the day
And here's an example of speculation being presented as a conclusion.
bombaysaffires
08-31-2018, 04:04 PM
and......your point is, what, exactly?
Angel75
08-31-2018, 04:05 PM
And here's an example of speculation being presented as a conclusion.
How so?
If you choose to believe that there were tour date disagreements or conflict between SnL that couldn't be resolved you come to the point that they can not agree...so your two options are continue and tour or disband.
Now clearly everyone including Mick have solo or business endeavours that can continue with that will keep them financially afloat personally and if they are touring solo they get their tour and audience fix outside of FM.
So the choice was made to continue to tour as FM without Lindsey based on the financial benefits they would reap foremost.
and......your point is, what, exactly?
As per my post above. If there are any bits you don't understand, then please ask.
Because otherwise: my point is that I have detailed where I disagree with you and given supporting arguments.
How so?
If you choose to believe that there were tour date disagreements or conflict between SnL that couldn't be resolved you come to the point that they can not agree...so your two options are continue and tour or disband.
Now clearly everyone including Mick have solo or business endeavours that can continue with that will keep them financially afloat personally and if they are touring solo they get their tour and audience fix outside of FM.
So the choice was made to continue to tour as FM without Lindsey based on the financial benefits they would reap foremost.
You are presenting one possibility as the only possibility. Other potential factors include: wanting to put on the best show for the audience, too many members of the band not being prepared to work with Lindsey any more due to personal friction (which could easily be Lindsey's fault as well BTW), not believing that Lindsey would actually ever tour or would be unreliable (as in 1987), and an infinite number of other possibilities.
I'm not saying that money is not a factor, clearly it is for professional musicians. But, to simply state a simple 'money trumped at the end of the day' is a woefully premature conclusion with no indications of any uncertainty. It's also attributing base motivations to one side.
bombaysaffires
08-31-2018, 04:15 PM
As per my post above. If there are any bits you don't understand, then please ask.
Because otherwise: my point is that I have detailed where I disagree with you and given supporting arguments.
Great. Good for you!
You've done your bit you've given your point of view and your reasons for it.
So have others.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they want.
Beating people over the head will not make them suddenly agree with you. That seems to be what you want.
Great. Good for you!
You've done your bit you've given your point of view and your reasons for it.
So have others.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they want.
Beating people over the head will not make them suddenly agree with you. That seems to be what you want.
Engaging in reasoned debate is not 'beating them over the head'.
If you don't want to continue the discussion, then that is your choice. But, there is nothing wrong in answering people's posts with reasoned debate. And, that is what I believe that I have done.
bombaysaffires
08-31-2018, 05:29 PM
Engaging in reasoned debate is not 'beating them over the head'.
If you don't want to continue the discussion, then that is your choice. But, there is nothing wrong in answering people's posts with reasoned debate. And, that is what I believe that I have done.
You've heard everyone's "evidence". You don't believe it. That's fine. To continue to come on here demanding people give you evidence until YOU are satisfied is arrogant and pointless. You are not the judge and jury. You're one person. You've made it very clear that you interpret the "evidence" such as it is in one particular way. Good for you. You should feel satisfied that you are the most logical person who has made the correct interpretation of everything. I see no point in your babbling on demanding everyone lay out their "evidence" for you to make grand determinations about.
Again, we get it. You think things happened in one particular way. Fantastic.
People will disagree with you. They do not have to "justify" anything to you.
You, like Thomas Markle, should be ignored. Don't feed the trolls, people.
button-lip
08-31-2018, 08:15 PM
You've heard everyone's "evidence". You don't believe it. That's fine. To continue to come on here demanding people give you evidence until YOU are satisfied is arrogant and pointless. You are not the judge and jury. You're one person. You've made it very clear that you interpret the "evidence" such as it is in one particular way. Good for you. You should feel satisfied that you are the most logical person who has made the correct interpretation of everything. I see no point in your babbling on demanding everyone lay out their "evidence" for you to make grand determinations about.
Again, we get it. You think things happened in one particular way. Fantastic.
People will disagree with you. They do not have to "justify" anything to you.
You, like Thomas Markle, should be ignored. Don't feed the trolls, people.
No matter how much evidence we present, some people have already chosen to believe Lindsey chose to leave, when practically Mick have already admitted they fired him "because they weren't happy". :(
Don't feed the trolls. They will eventually go away.... like Stevie's dignity. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
vivfox
09-01-2018, 06:08 AM
Sorry if I sounded harsh, but the last thread sparked people all over Facebook talking about how FM was going to tour with Journey, as if "industry insiders" had talked about it and it seriously might happen!
I'm using your words to point out one amazing fact. So many ex Ledgies like to claim this site is dead but when people hear a rumour about this band, this site is usually the first place one goes to verify if said information is fact or fiction. And The Ledge is also the place where people read such fiction and spread it thru FB as if it were fact. This proves we are still very much an influential group of people in the Fleetwood Mac community.
I'm using your words to point out one amazing fact. So many ex Ledgies like to claim this site is dead but when people hear a rumour about this band, this site is usually the first place one goes to verify if said information is fact or fiction. And The Ledge is also the place where people read such fiction and spread it thru FB as if it were fact. This proves we are still very much an influential group of people in the Fleetwood Mac community.
ha, i just said something similar recently in another thread. it's interesting this still seems to be happening.
Sugar Mouse
09-02-2018, 07:30 PM
No matter how much evidence we present, some people have already chosen to believe Lindsey chose to leave, when practically Mick have already admitted they fired him "because they weren't happy". :(
Don't feed the trolls. They will eventually go away.... like Stevie's dignity. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Where did Mick ever say that Lindsey chose to leave the band? No one associated with the band has ever said that. The band has continued to say that for a host of reasons (including disagreements over touring schedules and an unhappy "work" environment), Mick decided to part ways with Lindsey.
Angel75
09-02-2018, 09:14 PM
Where did Mick ever say that Lindsey chose to leave the band? No one associated with the band has ever said that. The band has continued to say that for a host of reasons (including disagreements over touring schedules and an unhappy "work" environment), Mick decided to part ways with Lindsey.
Well Mick refused to say 'fired' because it's an ugly word so what was his exact phrase then...?? You are just nitpicking that comment, it is very clear what is being said.
Sugar Mouse
09-02-2018, 10:05 PM
Well Mick refused to say 'fired' because it's an ugly word so what was his exact phrase then...?? You are just nitpicking that comment, it is very clear what is being said.
Mick didn't want to use the word "fired" but he made it very clear that Lindsey's contract with the band was being terminated. Companies routinely come up with different words to use when they fire someone. Either way, Mick made it clear that Lindsey was let go and that he was no longer a part of the band.
SteveMacD
09-03-2018, 05:31 PM
Well Mick refused to say 'fired' because it's an ugly word so what was his exact phrase then...?? You are just nitpicking that comment, it is very clear what is being said.
Lindsey also didn’t refer to it as a firing.
button-lip
09-03-2018, 11:04 PM
Where did Mick ever say that Lindsey chose to leave the band? No one associated with the band has ever said that. The band has continued to say that for a host of reasons (including disagreements over touring schedules and an unhappy "work" environment), Mick decided to part ways with Lindsey.
Chiffonheads want to believe Lindsey chose to leave the band because it ease their conscience regarding Stevie and what she did. Mick didn’t make the decision. It was a Stevie’s ultimatum and he had no choice but follow her rules.
Sorry, Mick, we know it was all Stevie. Your balls had been chopped in 1978. :angel:
HomerMcvie
09-03-2018, 11:24 PM
Chiffonheads want to believe Lindsey chose to leave the band because it ease their conscience regarding Stevie and what she did. Mick didn’t make the decision. It was a Stevie’s ultimatum and he had no choice but follow her rules.
Sorry, Mick, we know it was all Stevie. Your balls had been chopped in 1978. :angel:
Mick is a simple little whore, who has always been terrible with money. He'd take a sh*t on Biddy's grave for $5. But he's at least smart enough to know on which side his bread is buttered.
#cheapwhorewithnoscruples
DownOnRodeo
09-03-2018, 11:34 PM
Lindsey also didn’t refer to it as a firing.
He was probably keen to avoid any inflammatory/dramatic language, particularly a phrase that would amplify or validate his weaker position relative to Her Royal Highness.
"I have sadly taken leave of my band of 43 years"
"This was not something that was really my doing or my choice"
That's a man telling us that he was decommissioned, while doing his best to retain his own sense of dignity and self-value, and avoiding the situation where he would be discrediting the value of his career in the band.
bombaysaffires
09-04-2018, 12:20 AM
we also don't know the legal ramifications of saying 'fired'.....nobody knows how their contracts are structured etc..... Hopefully LB is still a partner in FM (if they are structured as a corporation-- many, many bands are) and reaps a percentage of all of it. Christine may have sold her "share" or "partnership" status when she left (she sold of publishing and all the 'burned bridges' could refer to severing her business contracts with the band). Mike and Neil are getting salaries but one wonders about their status -- are they full members? I would think with Neil still having one foot out with his solo career.....who knows.
HomerMcvie
09-04-2018, 08:38 AM
we also don't know the legal ramifications of saying 'fired'.....nobody knows how their contracts are structured etc..... Hopefully LB is still a partner in FM (if they are structured as a corporation-- many, many bands are) and reaps a percentage of all of it. Christine may have sold her "share" or "partnership" status when she left (she sold of publishing and all the 'burned bridges' could refer to severing her business contracts with the band). Mike and Neil are getting salaries but one wonders about their status -- are they full members? I would think with Neil still having one foot out with his solo career.....who knows.
Oh, I'd bet you a million bucks that Mike and Neil aren't full members. That would be REALLY stupid on Dick's part.
On second thought....:p
Storms123
09-04-2018, 11:57 AM
Oh, I'd bet you a million bucks that Mike and Neil aren't full members. That would be REALLY stupid on Dick's part.
On second thought....:p
I agree with you, doubtful they are full members. The rest of the Rumours 5 is taking home a larger percentage this go around without LB.
bombaysaffires
09-04-2018, 12:28 PM
I agree with you, doubtful they are full members. The rest of the Rumours 5 is taking home a larger percentage this go around without LB.
more motive for the killers, your Honor....
button-lip
09-04-2018, 10:55 PM
Oh, I'd bet you a million bucks that Mike and Neil aren't full members. That would be REALLY stupid on Dick's part.
On second thought....:p
I still see the Rumours 5 lineup every time I take a look at Apple Music, and not so long ago it was the SYW lineup, so they could have changed it to the new lineup, but they chose not to. :rolleyes:
SteveMacD
09-04-2018, 10:58 PM
I still see the Rumours 5 lineup every time I take a look at Apple Music, and not so long ago it was the SYW lineup, so they could have changed it to the new lineup, but they chose not to. :rolleyes:
The flip side is that the new lineup doesn’t have any music to sell. That would likely change with a new recording.
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