oh the hypocrisy [Archive]

bombaysaffires

04-26-2018, 02:47 PM

I'm pulling this out of another thread because I think it explains a lot about why people are so put off by this whole sh$t show.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/n...d-mac-20121205

This article is in Rolling Stone Dec 5, 2012.

As previously reported, Fleetwood Mac will head out on the road next year for a massive world tour. It turns out the tour was originally scheduled for 2012, but Stevie Nicks decided to take an extra year for her own solo trek. The rest of the group decided to make the best of things and use the time to cut a new album, but that ultimately fell apart, too.

Stevie gets to play fast and loose with the rules-- when she wants to keep doing solo stuff, the band needs to adjust. When Lindsey wants to do solo stuff, tough sh&t, you're fired.

Another bit:

Interviewer: I spoke with Stevie last week. She said she wanted the band to be gone for three years, because anything less would make the tour seem less special.

Lindsey: There might be a little bit of rationalization to that. We had actually planned to tour last year. We hadn't done any routing yet, but there had been a commitment from everyone, and then it got put off. Stevie had done her album and I had done mine as well. Hers came out a bit later and, to be fair, someone is always causing trouble in the band. She would look at me doing these small, solo things where I nurtured myself and brought that back into the band. I don't think she had one of those experiences, whether it was an album or touring behind an album for a while. She needed to have that experience.

It was fair enough for her to want to extend that until she felt it had been played to her satisfaction. There's no judgment on putting the tour off for a year, but it was a surprise to everyone. We had planned on it for a while, and she had planned on it. But things change, and that's a part of Fleetwood Mac. We're a moving target. We're a group of people who, you could make the argument, don't belong in the same band together. It's the synergy of that that makes it work.

Again, he says the band makes plans, Stevie wants to change them even after we were all planning on it, I played nice and said ok fine.

A big part of the rest of the article is about all the dancing around and cajoling they had to do to try and woo Stevie into recording some stuff (this ended up being the EP) .

Why does the band twist itself into knots trying to please Ms. Nicks far more than anyone else in the band? Ka-ching, ka-ching. And she knows it, and isn't afraid to use it. She'll threaten not to record, or not to tour (the card she played during SYW), threaten to go to the media ("How's it going to look when I go to RS and trash this project?" -- I forget which album she pulled that one on) and on and on and on and on.

trackaghost

04-26-2018, 03:00 PM

I brought up something similar in another thread but Mick was really upset with Stevie for delaying that tour at the time and moaned about it in an interview with Playboy in 2012.

The Ghost Of Fleetwood Mac (http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2012/03/mick-fleetwood-revealing-playboy.html)

It's partly why I was so surprised that they would fire Lindsey over supposedly doing the same thing. I think this time, because he has both Stevie and Christine in the band now, he feels more secure to just replace anyone who stands in his way of his big payday.

I also have a feeling that Stevie might have wanted Mike Campbell in the band before Lindsey was even given the boot, which I'm sure Lindsey would not have been pleased about.

Morgana

04-26-2018, 03:08 PM

I just came upon this article. From Ultimate Classic Rock

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-tour-roundtable/

Several mention the delay in waiting for Stevie.

SteveMacD

04-26-2018, 03:16 PM

I totally agree.

That was also before Christine came back and John got a cancer diagnosis.

Time is much less on their side now.

Macfan4life

04-26-2018, 03:23 PM

bombaysaffires

04-26-2018, 05:47 PM

I brought up something similar in another thread but Mick was really upset with Stevie for delaying that tour at the time and moaned about it in an interview with Playboy in 2012.

The Ghost Of Fleetwood Mac (http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2012/03/mick-fleetwood-revealing-playboy.htm)

It's partly why I was so surprised that they would fire Lindsey over supposedly doing the same thing. I think this time, because he has both Stevie and Christine in the band now, he feels more secure to just replace anyone who stands in his way of his big payday.

I also have a feeling that Stevie might have wanted Mike Campbell in the band before Lindsey was even given the boot, which I'm sure Lindsey would not have been pleased about.

was the link working when you posted it earlier?

When I check it now it says the page is no longer available please go to the main fleetwood mac news page. :shrug:

bombaysaffires

04-26-2018, 05:53 PM

I just came upon this article. From Ultimate Classic Rock

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/fleetwood-mac-tour-roundtable/

Several mention the delay in waiting for Stevie.

Thanks for sharing that link!

Here's one guy's take:

Nick DeRiso: In 2012, back before Christine McVie’s return, Lindsey Buckingham was ready to tour again with Fleetwood Mac, but they waited for Stevie Nicks – who didn’t finally get back on the road with the band until 2013. Following McVie’s return a year later, Buckingham was ready to record, and again they waited for Nicks. By the following year, he and McVie had begun recording without her. This went on so long that they completed an entire album, featuring all of the members of Fleetwood Mac – except Nicks, who did another solo tour in 2015. Then, Buckingham and McVie, waiting into 2017, mounted their own separate tour. All of this happened while they waited for Stevie Nicks. Finally, Nicks returned, but by this point Buckingham – understandably, right? – was ready to do something on his own. So they reportedly fired him. Makes perfect sense.

Most of the others fall for the band's story that the band was worried about getting older and living life to the fullest and Lindsey didn't want that. :eek:

Interestingly, they all think that Stop Draggin' My Heart Around will be included in the set, because of Mike co-writing it with Tom and as a tribute to Tom. In the middle of a Mac show. Facepalm.

trackaghost

04-26-2018, 06:22 PM

was the link working when you posted it earlier?

When I check it now it says the page is no longer available please go to the main fleetwood mac news page. :shrug:

Sorry, I don't know what happened there but here it is again.

http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2012/03/mick-fleetwood-revealing-playboy.html

bombaysaffires

04-26-2018, 06:38 PM

Sorry, I don't know what happened there but here it is again.

http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2012/03/mick-fleetwood-revealing-playboy.html

thanks! More double standard:

“I don’t believe Fleetwood Mac will ever tour again,” Fleetwood says dryly. “But I really hope we do. We have rehearsed and prepared for it since 2010. We were supposed to tour in 2011, but we delayed it for a year to allow Stevie Nicks to support her solo record and for Lindsey Buckingham to do the same with his. I’ve always been supportive of my bandmates doing solo albums, so long as we kept our band together. If you look at the credits as far back as you like, I’ve always played extensively on many of them, and this time was no different. I played drums on most of Stevie’s latest album, the one she is still out there supporting and the one that is the reason that for now she refuses to do a Fleetwood Mac tour. It comes down to her, and for the first time, I think, even Lindsey has lost his patience. All of this uncertainty is a tremendous change for me.”

Fleetwood looks off to the side, pulls his white mane into a tight ponytail and collects his thoughts. It’s clear he wants to get this just right. “Stevie is really proud of her new album, and I get that, but she will not let it go. Honestly, it’s not easy out there, and it’s done well, but she’s insistent upon working it until it is incapable of growing further. I understand what she likes about her situation: Touring in support of her album, she is able to be her, without any degree of compromise. She doesn’t have to worry about the other three of us asking her to do anything—which is basically the contract that comes with being in a band. She has become enthralled and obsessed with her album in a very nice but very inconvenient way. She’s working 20 times harder than she would ever have to with Fleetwood Mac and not making anything close to as much money as she would with us. But that is what she wants to do, and I respect that. In the past I’d not have taken no for an answer. I’d have persuaded Stevie or whoever needed persuading at the time to do the tour. But I’m not doing that this time or ever again, and there is nothing else to say about it. Stevie changed her program and changed her mind, and however willful anyone may be, this is what’s happening. Or not happening, rather. It’s quite simple: Stevie changed her mind. And you know what? That is our innate privilege as humans: Each of us has the right to change our mind.”

Nicks’s change of heart comes with a steep cost, though—one that even such rock royalty as Fleetwood, Buckingham and McVie can’t deny. The last time the band’s entire 1970s-era lineup toured was in 1997, after recording The Dance, which remains one of the top-selling live albums of all time. They played 44 shows in the U.S., a tour that raked in $60 million, which would be roughly $84 million today. After that tour Christine McVie retired from show business, but she did vocals on one more album, 2003’s commercially successful Say You Will; when the band toured, however, Nicks and Buckingham were obliged to cover Christine’s vocals. The band played intermittently in the years that followed. It is safe to assume that the fans will be rabid for the next tour. One promoter estimates that Fleetwood, Buckingham, McVie and Nicks would take home $10 million apiece from an eight-month arena tour. A tour that apparently will never be.

“It is certainly a blow to all of us financially,” Fleetwood says wryly. “I don’t care what you have and what money means to you, we’re talking about a very sizable, profitable tour. We’re talking about being paid well to do something that, unless I’ve misread things in this band for the past 30 years, we all love to do, because we’ve continued to do it even during our most difficult times individually and as a group. As a band we don’t work very often, so we never became some big moneymaking machine like the Eagles. The Eagles are absolutely brilliant—they work relentlessly, they put on a great show and they have all the money in the world to prove it. We just never ****ing did that.” He turns to look down the mountain at Maalaea Harbor, resplendent in the afternoon sun. “Fleetwood Mac could have been that and still could be today if we choose to, but we’re not and we won’t. Instead we are the worst-run franchise in the rock-and-roll business.”

“The news that this tour might never happen was devastating to me,” Fleetwood says. “We have been through so many ups and downs and false starts that, really, it’s almost a part of our process. Nearly every Fleetwood Mac album going back to the mid-1980s began as a Lindsey Buckingham solo project that we’d all end up playing on, until before our eyes it was transformed into a Fleetwood Mac album.”

This time was different, however, even though the motions, at first, seemed to be the same. “We all played on both Lindsey’s and Stevie’s records, so I thought nothing had changed. But as time stretched on, something didn’t feel right. Still, I was not prepared for that blow: essentially the realization that I no longer had a band. I’ve had a band—this band—since 1967. With all else coming apart in my life, it was not something I was prepared to stomach. But like the other guys, I’m getting over it.” He takes another of the long, thoughtful pauses that characterize his speech. Fleetwood is a man who talks easily, but before he says anything of significance, he weighs his words deliberately, his dulcet baritone rolling out in crisp, clipped King’s English. “The act of getting over this shock has proven to be a great catalyst in changing my life for the first time in decades. It inspired me to say, finally, ‘Enough is enough.’ For the first time ever I have refused to do what I’ve done in the past—anything it took to make a Fleetwood Mac album and tour happen. I was always the one to jump through hoops, to get down and beg, to play the fool or be as charming as I could. I literally did whatever was needed to keep the band moving forward. But not anymore.”

SteveMacD

04-26-2018, 06:52 PM

Interestingly, they all think that Stop Draggin' My Heart Around will be included in the set, because of Mike co-writing it with Tom and as a tribute to Tom. In the middle of a Mac show. Facepalm.
How would that be any different than “Stand Back” being a setlist staple in a Fleetwood Mac show?

bombaysaffires

04-26-2018, 06:56 PM

How would that be any different than “Stand Back” being a setlist staple in a Fleetwood Mac show?

It wouldn't. But I don't think Stand Back should be part of a Mac show either. :distress:

Morgana

04-26-2018, 07:03 PM

Thanks for sharing that link!

Here's one guy's take:

Nick DeRiso: In 2012, back before Christine McVie’s return, Lindsey Buckingham was ready to tour again with Fleetwood Mac, but they waited for Stevie Nicks – who didn’t finally get back on the road with the band until 2013. Following McVie’s return a year later, Buckingham was ready to record, and again they waited for Nicks. By the following year, he and McVie had begun recording without her. This went on so long that they completed an entire album, featuring all of the members of Fleetwood Mac – except Nicks, who did another solo tour in 2015. Then, Buckingham and McVie, waiting into 2017, mounted their own separate tour. All of this happened while they waited for Stevie Nicks. Finally, Nicks returned, but by this point Buckingham – understandably, right? – was ready to do something on his own. So they reportedly fired him. Makes perfect sense.

Most of the others fall for the band's story that the band was worried about getting older and living life to the fullest and Lindsey didn't want that. :eek:

Interestingly, they all think that Stop Draggin' My Heart Around will be included in the set, because of Mike co-writing it with Tom and as a tribute to Tom. In the middle of a Mac show. Facepalm.

You are so welcome! :thumbsup:

The Catdancer

04-27-2018, 12:16 AM

This is what Lindsey had to say when they wanted to bring in Sheryl Crow:

"Mick and Stevie wanted to bring Sheryl Crow into the band after the “Say You Will” album. I was against that from the get go, and shot that idea down immediately. I mean, what was she gonna do ? Was she gonna sing Christine McVie songs ? She certainly wasn’t going to sing Sheryl Crow songs. It just wasn’t the right fit, and I would never allow anything to happen that would tarnish Christine’s legacy in this band".

Lindsey Buckingham

So where's Christine's support for him??? I'm so disappointed in her. I thought maybe she would be the voice of reason but no, she "wants to carry on with these guys".
#WhoAreThesePeople

HomerMcvie

04-27-2018, 12:32 AM

So where's Christine's support for him??? I'm so disappointed in her. I thought maybe she would be the voice of reason but no, she "wants to carry on with these guys".
#WhoAreThesePeople

Same here. If she had a freaking toothpick of a backbone, she could have STOPPED this. But she did nothing. First, Bob Welch, and now this.:mad: She's no better than OGB.

secondhandchain

04-27-2018, 12:50 AM

Street_Dreamer

04-27-2018, 01:13 AM

Confirmation and reaffirmation for me and I'm sure many of you.

Iamwilliame

04-27-2018, 05:33 AM

Also being reported by CBS is this little tidbit. "If all goes well, the band says they hope to record."

UGHHHHHH!!!!!

aleuzzi

04-27-2018, 05:56 AM

Also being reported by CBS is this little tidbit. "If all goes well, the band says they hope to record."

UGHHHHHH!!!!!

Yep—that’s a real slap in the face, to Buckingham and to fans who wanted one last great Rumours lineup album.

Macfan4life

04-27-2018, 06:15 AM

Also being reported by CBS is this little tidbit. "If all goes well, the band says they hope to record."

UGHHHHHH!!!!!
I doubt that will happen i.e. meaning a full 12 song CD album. I do believe in their practice time they will create and play a new song for the tour. It will be one song just to prove to the world they are truly a "new" band and the members were added not just to bum rush a tour. It wont get recorded but instead played live.
After the American leg, the European and Australian dates will be added. I don't see this tour ending until late 2019. I just don't see the Mac getting together with their age to record an album in 2021.

StreetAngel86

04-27-2018, 06:38 AM

Thanks for posting the article. This double standard has been pointed out before but this is yet another example.
Lets be clear and real. If Stevie said please delay the tour 5 months for whatever reason, the band would do it without hesitation. I hope there is no one foolish to believe otherwise. This is why so many don't believe this touring smoke screen.

i dont think lindsey really asked for a 2 year or even 1 year delay especially if these dates had pretty much been roughly sketched out.
he conceivably could have done a bit of a US tour over the summer before the FM one.

is there something else they are covering up?

elle

04-27-2018, 07:53 AM

https://twitter.com/notphoebebuffay/status/989020398632058880

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">name: lindsey <br>age: 68<br>seeking: a band who aren't lying liars<br>beliefs: not breaking the chain <br>hobbies: playing guitar, producing others' music, drumming kleenex boxes, singing about seeds, sowing seeds, seeds <a href="https://t.co/fEqUyM9s18">pic.twitter.com/fEqUyM9s18</a></p>— emma (@notphoebebuffay) <a href="https://twitter.com/notphoebebuffay/status/989020398632058880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

button-lip

04-27-2018, 08:15 AM

Same here. If she had a freaking toothpick of a backbone, she could have STOPPED this. But she did nothing. First, Bob Welch, and now this.:mad: She's no better than OGB.

And that's why she's now trying to get away with this by saying she didn't know anything until she was in London. Yeah, right! :shocked::shocked:

lennonfan

04-27-2018, 08:18 AM

this is such a trainwreck.
I want to look away but I can't. I'm still in shock and grief.

button-lip

04-27-2018, 08:18 AM

Yep—that’s a real slap in the face, to Buckingham and to fans who wanted one last great Rumours lineup album.

One of many slaps. Tour starting on his birthday and in October, when it could have easily started also in November (a month clearly doesn't make a difference) are also punches on his face.

Dr.Brown

04-27-2018, 08:39 AM

It's shameful they couldn't keep couldn't keep their sh!t together when even ABBA is reuniting and putting out new music.

https://abbasite.com/articles/a-message-from-abba/

BombaySapphire3

04-27-2018, 09:16 AM

It's shameful they couldn't keep couldn't keep their sh!t together when even ABBA is reuniting and putting out new music.

https://abbasite.com/articles/a-message-from-abba/

Wow.. I knew about the avatar tour but did not know about the new songs..I'm so happy that I was able to see ABBA live in 1979. Now there is one band that has carefully curated it's legacy unlike another one that I can think of:rolleyes:

secondhandchain

04-27-2018, 09:21 AM

jmn3

04-27-2018, 09:31 AM

How are they Going to go on that stage every night and be happy about it? Before it was different, at least somebody left and they had no choice but to carry on. This whole thing just reeks. The fact that Stevie said she just wants to be happy, tells you it just wasn’t just about the tour either.

The fake sentiment will be on in full force. If she just wanted to be happy and do something with Mike so they could mourn Tom, why didn't she just put him in her band and tour solo with him and tell Fleetwood Mac to bug off? Oh wait, because she can make more money touring with Fleetwood Mac and do a third or more less of the work!

button-lip

04-27-2018, 11:45 AM

How are they Going to go on that stage every night and be happy about it? Before it was different, at least somebody left and they had no choice but to carry on. This whole thing just reeks. The fact that Stevie said she just wants to be happy, tells you it just wasn’t just about the tour either.

They're gonna be happy because this is what Stevie wanted, and Mick obliged.
Seriously, that RS quote was the definition of why Lindsey was fired. Stevie couldn't stand him anymore and she wanted to spend this tour (and the rest of her life, because I think also personally everything has been broken between them) happy.
So, yes, she's gonna be happy. Don't worry about that. ;)

bombaysaffires

04-27-2018, 12:41 PM

Stevie always said she always wanted to be a Heartbreaker....well, now she can. She always wanted her music to sound like Tom Petty.... said it was why she hired Jimmy etc... Now she's got Mike, who wrote a lot of the HB music where Tom wrote the lyrics and melodies...

So Mike will write music that she can't, and she can sing lyrics and melody over it (For What It's Worth, anyone? Desert Angel?) And, thanks to some smart people on here, I learned (and watched vids on youtube) Mike sings, and sounds quite a bit like Tom. So I can see her suddenly being motivated to write and record. Heck, maybe they can even bring Benmont in to replace Brett.:shrug: I'd be willing to wager a small sum that they've at least contacted him about filling in the second keyboardist slot this tour. (Not sure he'd do it, but I really think she'd at least feel him out about it).

What should it be called? Stevie Nicks and the Macbreakers? (ties in to Heartbreakers and Bluesbreakers)

Dr.Brown

04-27-2018, 01:16 PM

What should it be called? Stevie Nicks and the Macbreakers? (ties in to Heartbreakers and Bluesbreakers)

With the lingering stench following that CBS interview, while it may seem 'ugly', I think the name Fartbreakers would be more apt.
.

BombaySapphire3

04-27-2018, 01:19 PM

Yeah I actually believe that if none of them croaks( and I'm referring to death not some of their singing voices) during or right after this tour that they will actually record together .

aleuzzi

04-27-2018, 01:25 PM

bombaysaffires

04-27-2018, 08:31 PM

With the lingering stench following that CBS interview, while it may seem 'ugly', I think the name Fartbreakers would be more apt.
.

how about Windbreakers then instead?;)

Dr.Brown

04-27-2018, 10:49 PM

how about Windbreakers then instead?;)

https://media.tenor.co/images/a9eacc4806a265fb86fae9461f2c5906/raw

Street_Dreamer

04-28-2018, 02:11 PM

Kudos if you get where this is from.

Mick Fleetwood, while you stand there, hopefully as uncomfortable as you possibly can be, I want you to listen to me. I want you to digest this. I have a lot of things I want to get off my chest.

I don’t hate you, Mick. I don’t even dislike you. I do like you. I like you a hell of a lot more than I like most people.

I hate this idea that Stevie's the best. Because she's not. I’m the best. I’m the best in the world. There’s one thing you’re better at than I am and that’s kissing Stevie Nicks' ass.

You’re as good as kissing Stevie’s ass as Sheryl Crow was. You're a pretty good ass kisser. Always was and still is.

Whoops! I’m breaking the fourth wall!

I am the best musician in the world.

I’ve been the best since day one when I walked into this band. And I’ve been vilified and hated since that day because the fans saw something in me that nobody else wanted to admit. That’s right, I love the fans. You know who else loved the fans? Bob Welch. And he split just like I’m splitting. But the biggest difference between me and Bob is I was fired.

I’ve grabbed so many of Mick Fleetwood’s brass rings that it’s finally dawned on me that they're just that, they’re completely imaginary. The only thing that’s real is me and the fact that day in and day out, for over 40 years, I have proved to everybody in the world that I am the best on the guitar, in that band, even in production! Nobody can touch me!

And yet no matter how many times I prove it, I’m not on your lovely little t-shirts. I don't get to be on TV shows. I’m certainly not on any crappy Star Trek show. I’m not on Conan O’Brian. I’m not on Jimmy Fallon. But the fact of the matter is, I should be.

This isn’t sour grapes. But the fact that Stevie is in the band without me next year and I’m not makes me sick!

Oh hey, let me get something straight. Christine, you are just as big a part of me leaving as anything else. Because you the Buckingham McVie album with me. You’re the one who was excited to work with me and Fleetwood Mac. And then at five in the morning, you shove **** in the my face and try to sell it to the media because you’re too lazy to tell the truth.

I’m leaving Fleetwood Mac. And hell, who knows, maybe I'll make a best of album. Maybe… I’ll make a new album.

The reason I’m leaving is Stevie Nicks. Because after I’m gone, people will still pour money into this band. I’m just a spoke on the wheel. The wheel is going to keep turning and I understand that. Mick Fleetwood is going to make money despite himself. You know why he’s not a millionaire? Because he surrounds himself with glad-handed, nonsensical, douchebag women like Stevie Nicks, who’s going to tell him everything he wants to hear, and I’d like to think that maybe this band will be better after Stevie is gone.

Let me tell you a personal story about Stevie Nicks alright. We do this whole pro-Buckingham/Nicks campaign...

[Microphone cuts off]

I've been silenced!