I think all of this is simpler than we assume

[ryan4136]

I think LB said I’m not touring without new music. And the band (Stevie) said not recording. And it was a simple vote in favor of Stevie. The rest of the reasons and the end of the day are window dressing.

[secondhandchain]

You could be right. Also Stevie can NOT write by herself anymore. She needs someone to do most of the heavy lifting. M. Campbell will do that for her.

[button-lip]

I think LB said I’m not touring without new music. And the band (Stevie) said not recording. And it was a simple vote in favor of Stevie. The rest of the reasons and the end of the day are window dressing.

Lindsey never said he was not touring, no matter if the music was new or old. We all saw it in that video.

The reason was simple, but it was not the one you’re saying

[HomerMcvie]

You could be right. Also Stevie can NOT write by herself anymore. She needs someone to do most of the heavy lifting. M. Campbell will do that for her.

Well, Lindsey did that for 40 years. But her bloated ego won't allow that anymore.

[Storms123]

I think LB said I’m not touring without new music. And the band (Stevie) said not recording. And it was a simple vote in favor of Stevie. The rest of the reasons and the end of the day are window dressing.

On premise, I SO want to believe that, but then the interview today...it was beyond awkward. All of them. I feel like if it was cut and dry, the interview would have come across far more genuine. It really didn’t. Now, Mick really did leave the door open, by skirting around the word “fire” (albeit doing it terribly)and so did little crocodile tears. Given this is not a global tour (FM not going to EU???), I don’t think they have any notion this is their farewell....SO who will extend the olive branch to Lindsey, and will he receptive. Honestly I think it would need to be John and go something to the effect, “we suck, we all (you included LB)f’d up. Let’s end this right!”

[button-lip]

On premise, I SO want to believe that, but then the interview today...it was beyond awkward. All of them. I feel like if it was cut and dry, the interview would have come across far more genuine. It really didn’t. Now, Mick really did leave the door open, by skirting around the word “fire” (albeit doing it terribly)and so did little crocodile tears. Given this is not a global tour (FM not going to EU???), I don’t think they have any notion this is their farewell....SO who will extend the olive branch to Lindsey, and will he receptive. Honestly I think it would need to be John and go something to the effect, “we suck, we all (you included LB)f’d up. Let’s end this right!”

Yeah, it could be, but Stevie will never allow it. Unless this tour sucks big time. But it won't, so :shrug:

[ryan4136]

Lindsey never said he was not touring, no matter if the music was new or old. We all saw it in that video.

The reason was simple, but it was not the one you’re saying

MF said he wouldn’t sign on the dotted line. I think that’s accurate. It was a game of chicken, LB wanted new music. The band didn’t blink, and worked behind his back to move on. The whole “he wanted to make us wait a year” line is a partial truth not because he wanted to avoid a tour, because he wanted to record before agreeing to a tour. In fairness this happened in Jan/Feb and they are waiting 9 months anyway from that point to start the tour. Add in 2 months to write and record and that’s the “year” they reference. Or the “two years” (from the last tour) that Ken C has stated.

At the end of the day I think LB said I’m not going out for a cash grab only tour, and they said “well we are, so see ya”

She who will not be named probably sees it as something more. But I’m not sure the rest do. I think Mic would take LB back in a heartbeat if it equaled more money.

[Kubrick2788]

Admittedly, I'm not as up on this as everyone else seems to be. What video is everyone referencing as proof that Stevie is the evil mastermind behind all this?

[louielouie2000]

Admittedly, I'm not as up on this as everyone else seems to be. What video is everyone referencing as proof that Stevie is the evil mastermind behind all this?

To me, the part of the Rolling Stone interview where Stevie says “I just want to be happy the next 10 years of my life” says it all. This was about HER, not the greater good of Fleetwood Mac or it’s fanbase. She was tired of Lindsey’s antangonism and insistence on a new album, so she orchestrated an ultimatum. Only tours from here out- no new albums; take it or leave it (knowing Lindsey would leave it). The rest of the band recorded the Buckingham McVie album; it’s clear as day who refused to participate and got the FM name removed from it. Like others have said, this has all been a high stakes game of chicken. We see who won. The whole band knows what would happen if Stevie were to leave, which is why they ultimately backed her instead.

[button-lip]

MF said he wouldn’t sign on the dotted line. I think that’s accurate. It was a game of chicken, LB wanted new music. The band didn’t blink, and worked behind his back to move on. The whole “he wanted to make us wait a year” line is a partial truth not because he wanted to avoid a tour, because he wanted to record before agreeing to a tour. In fairness this happened in Jan/Feb and they are waiting 9 months anyway from that point to start the tour. Add in 2 months to write and record and that’s the “year” they reference. Or the “two years” (from the last tour) that Ken C has stated.

At the end of the day I think LB said I’m not going out for a cash grab only tour, and they said “well we are, so see ya”

She who will not be named probably sees it as something more. But I’m not sure the rest do. I think Mic would take LB back in a heartbeat if it equaled more money.

I'm confused. When did Lindsey say he wanted to do new FM music? Now? When? Because then it's impossible the rest of the band would have said 'no' if they're now talking about doing a new FM album.
Lindsey had given up about doing a new album with the band a long time ago.

If you're talking about his solo album, it was ready. And he could have done his solo tour before the FM tour started.

[button-lip]

To me, the part of the Rolling Stone interview where Stevie says “I just want to be happy the next 10 years of my life” says it all. This was about HER, not the greater good of Fleetwood Mac or it’s fanbase. She was tired of Lindsey’s antangonism and insistence on a new album, so she orchestrated an ultimatum. Only tours from here out- no new albums; take it or leave it (knowing Lindsey would leave it). The rest of the band recorded the Buckingham McVie album; it’s clear as day who refused to participate and got the FM name removed from it. Like others have said, this has all been a high stakes game of chicken. We see who won. The whole band knows what would happen if Stevie were to leave, which is why they ultimately backed her instead.

It's so nice when you don't have to explain the same thing over and over again. So, thank you :xoxo:

That phrase says it all. She practically admitted she was tired of him and wanted him out.

But he gave up on doing a FM album a long time ago.

[Steviegirl]

Yeah, it could be, but Stevie will never allow it. Unless this tour sucks big time. But it won't, so :shrug:

I'm not so sure. I mentioned before that comments are running for Lindsey about 10-1 on Twitter. The tour may very well suck, and that would be righteous. #IStandwithLindsey

[louielouie2000]

Lindsey had given up about doing a new album with the band a long time ago.

I can’t say I agree with this at all. The EP was Lindsey’s way of trying to get Stevie to dip her toes into the water of recording with him again. He agreed to help with her In Your Dreams solo album. Lindsey spoke for years about recording songs in keys which dovetailed with Stevie’s range. He played the game of chicken when he recorded the Buckingham McVie album with the rest of the band- I suspect he felt that would entice Stevie to join them. Instead it backfired and Stevie most certainly got the FM name yanked from the album. He did years of cash grab tours and mellowed his experimental style on the EP, Buckingham McVie, and his soundtrack songs; all in the hopes of getting into Stevie’s good graces- to no avail.

[jmn3]

It is very simple - she said him or me and Moneybags Fleetwood obviously picked the best answer for his wallet. Edit: Yeah, the McVie's went along with this too. They shouldn't come away unscathed in this. They agreed and let this happen.

As for the tour being a bust or sucking, I truly don't think that technically it will suck at all. Fleetwood and the McVie's are excellent musicians and it appears the same backing band will be there to provide the foundation as before. Mike Campbell is an excellent guitar player and will be fine. I don't know Finn's work much but the guy is a professional and will do his parts fine.

But it will lack SOMETHING. In the same way that the 1987-90 bands were missing something. The shows were technically proficient but they lacked a certain chemistry and haven't aged well at all - they sound sterile and routine. I feel this will be more of the same, even though I'd have to say Campbell is a far more dynamic player than Vito ever was. That chemistry was blatantly obvious during The Dance. Something about that fivesome just works. It's all of the history and drama and tension along with the fact that they just create good music together.

[elle]

I can’t say I agree with this at all. The EP was Lindsey’s way of trying to get Stevie to dip her toes into the water of recording with him again. He agreed to help with her In Your Dreams solo album. Lindsey spoke for years about recording songs in keys which dovetailed with Stevie’s range. He played the game of chicken when he recorded the Buckingham McVie album with the rest of the band- I suspect he felt that would entice Stevie to join them. Instead it backfired and Stevie most certainly got the FM name yanked from the album. He did years of cash grab tours and mellowed his experimental style on the EP, Buckingham McVie, and his soundtrack songs; all in the hopes of getting into Stevie’s good graces- to no avail.

yes to all of this.

i think button-lip is talking about present day - he gave up on trying to push for an FM 5 album in 2018. actually he gave up at the end of 2016 when they decided to put it out as BuckVie.

[dreamsunwind]

To me, the part of the Rolling Stone interview where Stevie says “I just want to be happy the next 10 years of my life” says it all. This was about HER, not the greater good of Fleetwood Mac or it’s fanbase. She was tired of Lindsey’s antangonism and insistence on a new album, so she orchestrated an ultimatum. Only tours from here out- no new albums; take it or leave it (knowing Lindsey would leave it). The rest of the band recorded the Buckingham McVie album; it’s clear as day who refused to participate and got the FM name removed from it. Like others have said, this has all been a high stakes game of chicken. We see who won. The whole band knows what would happen if Stevie were to leave, which is why they ultimately backed her instead.

I think the making of the BuckVie album was the beginning of the end. It's my theory that Stevie was pissed that it happened and basically, for lack of better words, wanted 'revenge' against Lindsey for it. So she's already mad at him for that, he's already mad at her for not letting the FM album happen, then he asks to delay the tour, they say no, then he asks to do two tours, they say no (whichever came first), he stands his ground, she gets fed up and decides she wants to be 'happy' the next 10 years of her life so she says 'him or me'.

And I think she's gonna regret it big time.

[louielouie2000]

And I think she's gonna regret it big time.

I do too. Just remember, Stevie herself quit FM following Behind the Mask because “it just wasn’t the same without Lindsey.” Keep in mind, Lindsey’s exit in 1987 was a truly nasty experience for all. She may say she hates fighting with Lindsey, but it’s that friction all the same that I think keeps her fired up and interested. I suspect that’s why Stevie actually ended up ditching Dave Stewart from her solo ventures- the mutual love fest and “yes man” interactions eventually bored her. Just look at how Stevie chased around Tom Petty, too... even though he was often quite dismissive and even rude to her. She thrives on conflict. With the 2 new guitarists, there will be no head butting, elsewise they’ll simply get tossed out of the band.

[button-lip]

I think the making of the BuckVie album was the beginning of the end. It's my theory that Stevie was pissed that it happened and basically, for lack of better words, wanted 'revenge' against Lindsey for it. So she's already mad at him for that, he's already mad at her for not letting the FM album happen, then he asks to delay the tour, they say no, then he asks to do two tours, they say no (whichever came first), he stands his ground, she gets fed up and decides she wants to be 'happy' the next 10 years of her life so she says 'him or me'.

And I think she's gonna regret it big time.

Hmmm, are you sure you don’t have a source on your own? :xoxo:

Perfectly said :nod:

[WatchChain]

Actually, maybe the answer is very simple. The Mac wanted to make some money, and Lindsey wasn't ready. Get two seasoned musicians, go out on the road, and let Lindsey relax and do his small machine thing.

An inside publicity stunt to prepare for a MASSIVE FAREWELL YOUR in late 2020/2021 with Lindsey Buckingham BACK in the fold. The Farewell Tour can go on for two years, hitting every market twice. The ticket sales will go through the roof, as people will think this is their only time to see the Rumours lineup again.

Finn and Campbell are nothing more than short term office temps. Moreover, they know it, and they're happy to make some money instead of sitting home doing nothing. Sure, maybe I'm just practicing wishful thinking.

[StevieandChris]

Admittedly, I'm not as up on this as everyone else seems to be. What video is everyone referencing as proof that Stevie is the evil mastermind behind all this?

It is some video some fans took that you can not hear very clearly. It is not proof of anything. His conversation with fans is not going to be the same as his conversation with the group.

[louielouie2000]

Actually, maybe the answer is very simple. The Mac wanted to make some money, and Lindsey wasn't ready. Get two seasoned musicians, go out on the road, and let Lindsey relax and do his small machine thing.

An inside publicity stunt to prepare for a MASSIVE FAREWELL YOUR in late 2020/2021 with Lindsey Buckingham BACK in the fold. The Farewell Tour can go on for two years, hitting every market twice. The ticket sales will go through the roof, as people will think this is their only time to see the Rumours lineup again.

Finn and Campbell are nothing more than short term office temps. Moreover, they know it, and they're happy to make some money instead of sitting home doing nothing. Sure, maybe I'm just practicing wishful thinking.

This has been my read on the situation as well- Lindsey will return for a massive farewell tour in several years. I’m not sure I agree that the whole thing is planned... but I suspect that’s how it will likely end. I tend to believe after dedicating their entire adult lives and legacies to this band, that they’ll want to end it on their own terms, in a respectable way. Going out with replacement guitarists from a potpourri of 1980s bands isn’t how any of the 5 will want the story to end.

[Jondalar]

Actually, maybe the answer is very simple. The Mac wanted to make some money, and Lindsey wasn't ready. Get two seasoned musicians, go out on the road, and let Lindsey relax and do his small machine thing.

An inside publicity stunt to prepare for a MASSIVE FAREWELL YOUR in late 2020/2021 with Lindsey Buckingham BACK in the fold. The Farewell Tour can go on for two years, hitting every market twice. The ticket sales will go through the roof, as people will think this is their only time to see the Rumours lineup again.

Finn and Campbell are nothing more than short term office temps. Moreover, they know it, and they're happy to make some money instead of sitting home doing nothing. Sure, maybe I'm just practicing wishful thinking.

Why wasn’t Stevie fired when she wouldn’t make an album with them.

[WatchChain]

Why wasn’t Stevie fired when she wouldn’t make an album with them.

ANSWER: Fleetwood Mac cannot play huge arenas without Stevie. Since Mick and John only earn about 10-15% each of the profits, Mick needs to play huge arenas to make any money.

It's like a car with a flat tire being able to run on a small donut spare tire. Fleetwood Mac can fill large arenas WITHOUT either Christine OR Lindsey--but NOT without Stevie. A Buckingham/McVie/Fleetwood/McVie lineup would only be able to play smaller theaters at best--much like the Buckingham McVie tour playing The Majestic Theater in San Antonio, Texas (seating capacity 2,200). That lineup could also fill theaters of about 6,000.

Lindsey is the only person who really cares about albums. As with most record label contracts, the band doesn't make any money off album sales. The money is in touring. $tevie knows that. Moreover, a new Fleetwood Mac album wouldn't sell over 750,000 units. A far cry from the record sales of yesteryear.

Stevie Nicks - love her or hate her, fills seats.

I am just heartsick over what happened with Lindsey's dismissal. It was the wrong decision for the legacy of this band.

[button-lip]

It is some video some fans took that you can not hear very clearly. It is not proof of anything. His conversation with fans is not going to be the same as his conversation with the group.

Well, English isn't my first language and I can hear and understand everything Lindsey says.
Weren't you all waiting for Lindsey to say something? So because he was talking with fans it doesn't prove anything? He was caught off-guard so he didn't even have time to think about what to say. Like in some other interview that happened this morning.

[Storms123]

Yeah, it could be, but Stevie will never allow it. Unless this tour sucks big time. But it won't, so :shrug:

So much of her story, her legacy, like it or not is wrapped it him (and him her), she can't let it end on a bad note. She says this herself. "When we are 90 and one of us goes, the other will be there...." The tour won't suck, but it will not be the farewell tour they want to go out with. IMO. Why aren't they in Europe, why aren't they in Australia (who knows, may come later) I do find it interesting they are saving the larger arenas (Forum, NYC) for the end of the tour. We shall see. This group has more lives then Morris the cat...however, what I saw today, was a little bit of disgust with themselves. I am a big believer in...there's one side, the other side, and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. So much isht has been tossed around....let's just get to the middle.

[SteveMacD]

Fleetwood Mac can fill large arenas WITHOUT either Christine OR Lindsey--but NOT without Stevie. A Buckingham/McVie/Fleetwood/McVie lineup would only be able to play smaller theaters at best--much like the Buckingham McVie tour playing The Majestic Theater in San Antonio, Texas (seating capacity 2,200). That lineup could also fill theaters of about 6,000.
Probably right about the areas, but the Fleetwood Mac brand with 2/3 of its classic lineup singer/songwriters would easily fill larger theaters.

As I’ve said before, Robert Pollard of Guided by Voices is a friend of mine, and the difference in album sales, money offered for shows, and ticket sales is considerably more if he bills it as Guided by Voices compared to Robert Pollard solo or any other moniker he comes up with, regardless of who else is in the band. It doesn’t matter what he does or who is backing him up, it’s how he brands it that‘s the single largest factor in sales.

My point is, as a brand, LBCM was something new, compared to SN, who was actively cultivating her own brand independent of FM since at least 1978. If Mick and John had been on the tour and the album and tour credited to FM, who knows how well the what was LBCM would have faired, especially if they did the co-headline tour with someone like Bonnie Raitt?

[Nathan]

Probably right about the areas, but the Fleetwood Mac brand with 2/3 of its classic lineup singer/songwriters would easily fill larger theaters.

As I’ve said before, Robert Pollard of Guided by Voices is a friend of mine, and the difference in album sales, money offered for shows, and ticket sales is considerably more if he bills it as Guided by Voices compared to Robert Pollard solo or any other moniker he comes up with, regardless of who else is in the band. It doesn’t matter what he does or who is backing him up, it’s how he brands it that‘s the single largest factor in sales.

My point is, as a brand, LBCM was something new, compared to SN, who was actively cultivating her own brand independent of FM since at least 1978. If Mick and John had been on the tour and the album and tour credited to FM, who knows how well the what was LBCM would have faired, especially if they did the co-headline tour with someone like Bonnie Raitt?

I would love Bonnie Raitt as a co headliner. Maybe she could stand in for Stevie if she ever got the boot. That would fill an arena maybe..

[Angel75]

I do too. Just remember, Stevie herself quit FM following Behind the Mask because “it just wasn’t the same without Lindsey.” Keep in mind, Lindsey’s exit in 1987 was a truly nasty experience for all. She may say she hates fighting with Lindsey, but it’s that friction all the same that I think keeps her fired up and interested. I suspect that’s why Stevie actually ended up ditching Dave Stewart from her solo ventures- the mutual love fest and “yes man” interactions eventually bored her. Just look at how Stevie chased around Tom Petty, too... even though he was often quite dismissive and even rude to her. She thrives on conflict. With the 2 new guitarists, there will be no head butting, elsewise they’ll simply get tossed out of the band.

Yes, this. She does thrive on conflict. But is so self absorbed and lacks self awareness to realise she lives off having LB in her life....without their chemistry and volitity what does she have in her life at all now?

[StreetAngel86]

I can’t say I agree with this at all. The EP was Lindsey’s way of trying to get Stevie to dip her toes into the water of recording with him again. He agreed to help with her In Your Dreams solo album. Lindsey spoke for years about recording songs in keys which dovetailed with Stevie’s range. He played the game of chicken when he recorded the Buckingham McVie album with the rest of the band- I suspect he felt that would entice Stevie to join them. Instead it backfired and Stevie most certainly got the FM name yanked from the album. He did years of cash grab tours and mellowed his experimental style on the EP, Buckingham McVie, and his soundtrack songs; all in the hopes of getting into Stevie’s good graces- to no avail.

this makes me want to cry
because you know it's probably 100% accurate :distress:

and it reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally pisses me off we're never going to get another proper FM album (i love love love SYW and it's my fave record) but it needs to be all 5 of them ALL FIVE OF THEM. +ly contributing, not some 1/2 assed effort from Stevie like EP (though i cut her some slack there because of her Mama)

[bwboy]

I do too. Just remember, Stevie herself quit FM following Behind the Mask because “it just wasn’t the same without Lindsey.”

I have no idea about that quote, and she may well have said that, but that's not why she left FM. She's said numerous times (and Mick acknowledged it) that she left FM because he refused to let her put Silver Springs on her greatest hits album.

[Macfan4life]

I have no idea about that quote, and she may well have said that, but that's not why she left FM. She's said numerous times (and Mick acknowledged it) that she left FM because he refused to let her put Silver Springs on her greatest hits album.
I remember that quote too. You have to put it in perspective though. In 1990 the Mac was out of steam. BTM was considered a major flop being the first album to not go platinum since the Nicks era. The band could not even get a single to crack the top 20. Christine was tired of touring. Ticket sales were not great for their 1990 tour. I saw them during the Farewell tour in Pittsburgh in November 1990 and there were about 9,000 people there. The entire upper balcony was empty which was embarrassing when lights hit around the arena. Stevie's management advised her to not even partake in Behind the Mask because they thought it would hurt her solo career. Stevie's klonopin problem was becoming very obvious too. So in the context of everything happening, of course Stevie longed for the good ole days of the Mac. During the final performance of the Farewell tour in Oakland CA where Lindsey played Landslide, Stevie is optimistic and says someday hopefully they can play together again. The band carried on without Lindsey but obviously there was something missing. Something very similar to when Christine left.

[TrueFaith77]

Yes, this. She does thrive on conflict. But is so self absorbed and lacks self awareness to realise she lives off having LB in her life....without their chemistry and volitity what does she have in her life at all now?

Exactly, the tension may make them dysfunctional but it also defines their art. Without it...

[sodascouts]

Exactly, the tension may make them dysfunctional but it also defines their art. Without it...

She can still write and sing about Lindsey even if he's not around. In performance, though... this isn't a solo show. She'll have to find a new way to relate to the other side of the stage. I just hope she doesn't do something feeble like try to sing "Silver Springs" to Neil or go hug Mike Campbell during the "Landslide" guitar solo, as if the men are as interchangeable as Darrin on Bewitched.*



*Or Dumbledore in Harry Potter, in case you don't know who the heck Darrin is.

[Storms123]

She can still write and sing about Lindsey even if he's not around. In performance, though... this isn't a solo show. She'll have to find a new way to relate to the other side of the stage. I just hope she doesn't do something feeble like try to sing "Silver Springs" to Neil or go hug Mike Campbell during the "Landslide" guitar solo, as if the men are as interchangeable as Darrin on Bewitched.

The SYW set list changed a bit in the early days of the tour, as did OWTS. I would be curious to see how this set list evolves because it’s not resonating with fans. I noticed in the interview yesterday, the rehearsal footage specifically, Christine was practically off the stage in the next room. “If they can’t see me,I am not here”

[sleepless child]

I feel also that Lindsey wasn't crazy about going out and playing the same old stuff again. He and Chris made and toured with new music in a short amount of time. I find it all a bit odd that Lindsey wouldn't agree to tour. Everyone, fans included knew the Mac was touring in 2018. Lindsey says in the video that he is pushing back his solo album and doing a best of that he would like to tour with in between Mac shows. I don't know why that would bother Mick and Stevie so much. Let him do it. If it's too much, he'll decide to stop. And Chris's remarks in the Rolling Stone interview where she says she was surprised at Lindsey being gone when I think she came back from England? It's almost like this was a Mick/Stevie decision. I just think there is more to the story and I hope Lindsey does an interview to clarify. I'm really torn about the tour. They come to Pittsburgh Nov. 1st, but I just can't get on board with it.

[BigAl84]

Ego, it all comes down to ego.

Lindsey doing solo dates between Fleetwood Mac dates was never going to fly. It risked pulling people out of Fleetwood Mac seats and into his show instead. It's disheartening to realize Lindsey thought it would be ok with the rest of the group, it goes to show that I think Lindsey's (and I say this lovingly) assessment of how the rest of the band viewed him and his ability to work with them, must of been quite a bit different than reality. He made very respectful comments about Stevie needing to do her 24k tour and even said, "no harm, no foul in needing to do that". I think he was expecting the courtesy to be returned and it was not. In short, I think he was giving them more credit than they deserved.

Promoters were not going to sign off on a tour with Lindsey playing solo within a neighboring market. It would upset their ability to play secondary markets and milk the cash for every last drop. And no matter how small of a percentage his solo dates would have on Fleetwood Mac ticket sales, we all know Mick is going to side with anybody advising him when it comes to anything remotely financial.

[BigAl84]

Not to mention the whole premise would instantly infuriate Stevie. Her big MO has always been using her solo career to solidify her dedication back to Fleetwood Mac and use it as some sort of backwards guilt trip to claim Fleetwood mac is the sword she always has to fall back on. It was her primary means of leverage within the band and for Lindsey to walk in and somehow suggest do both at the same time....fireworks.

[bombaysaffires]

and here's a reminder why this current situation is total bullsh&t:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-stevie-nicks-and-lindsey-buckingham-reveal-lingering-tensions-in-fleetwood-mac-20121205

This article is in Rolling Stone Dec 5, 2012.

As previously reported, Fleetwood Mac will head out on the road next year for a massive world tour. It turns out the tour was originally scheduled for 2012, but Stevie Nicks decided to take an extra year for her own solo trek. The rest of the group decided to make the best of things and use the time to cut a new album, but that ultimately fell apart, too.

Stevie gets to play fast and loose with the rules-- when she wants to keep doing solo stuff, the band needs to adjust. When Lindsey wants to do solo stuff, tough sh&t, you're fired. :shrug:

Another bit:

Interviewer: I spoke with Stevie last week. She said she wanted the band to be gone for three years, because anything less would make the tour seem less special.

Lindsey: There might be a little bit of rationalization to that. We had actually planned to tour last year. We hadn't done any routing yet, but there had been a commitment from everyone, and then it got put off. Stevie had done her album and I had done mine as well. Hers came out a bit later and, to be fair, someone is always causing trouble in the band. She would look at me doing these small, solo things where I nurtured myself and brought that back into the band. I don't think she had one of those experiences, whether it was an album or touring behind an album for a while. She needed to have that experience.

It was fair enough for her to want to extend that until she felt it had been played to her satisfaction. There's no judgment on putting the tour off for a year, but it was a surprise to everyone. We had planned on it for a while, and she had planned on it. But things change, and that's a part of Fleetwood Mac. We're a moving target. We're a group of people who, you could make the argument, don't belong in the same band together. It's the synergy of that that makes it work.


Again, he says the band makes plans, Stevie wants to change them even after we were all planning on it, I played nice and said ok fine.

A big part of the rest of the article is about all the dancing around and cajoling they had to do to try and woo Stevie into recording some stuff (this ended up being the EP) .

Why does the band twist itself into knots trying to please Ms. Nicks far more than anyone else in the band? Ka-ching, ka-ching. And she knows it, and isn't afraid to use it. She'll threaten not to record, or not to tour (the card she played during SYW), threaten to go to the media ("How's it going to look when I go to RS and trash this project?" -- I forget which album she pulled that one on) and on and on and on and on.

[dreamsunwind]

and here's a reminder why this current situation is total bullsh&t:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-stevie-nicks-and-lindsey-buckingham-reveal-lingering-tensions-in-fleetwood-mac-20121205

This article is in Rolling Stone Dec 5, 2012.

As previously reported, Fleetwood Mac will head out on the road next year for a massive world tour. It turns out the tour was originally scheduled for 2012, but Stevie Nicks decided to take an extra year for her own solo trek. The rest of the group decided to make the best of things and use the time to cut a new album, but that ultimately fell apart, too.

Stevie gets to play fast and loose with the rules-- when she wants to keep doing solo stuff, the band needs to adjust. When Lindsey wants to do solo stuff, tough sh&t, you're fired. :shrug:

Another bit:

Interviewer: I spoke with Stevie last week. She said she wanted the band to be gone for three years, because anything less would make the tour seem less special.

Lindsey: There might be a little bit of rationalization to that. We had actually planned to tour last year. We hadn't done any routing yet, but there had been a commitment from everyone, and then it got put off. Stevie had done her album and I had done mine as well. Hers came out a bit later and, to be fair, someone is always causing trouble in the band. She would look at me doing these small, solo things where I nurtured myself and brought that back into the band. I don't think she had one of those experiences, whether it was an album or touring behind an album for a while. She needed to have that experience.

It was fair enough for her to want to extend that until she felt it had been played to her satisfaction. There's no judgment on putting the tour off for a year, but it was a surprise to everyone. We had planned on it for a while, and she had planned on it. But things change, and that's a part of Fleetwood Mac. We're a moving target. We're a group of people who, you could make the argument, don't belong in the same band together. It's the synergy of that that makes it work.


Again, the band makes plans, Stevie wants to change them even after we were all planning on it, I played nice and said ok fine.

A big part of the rest of the article is about all the dancing around and cajoling they had to do to try and woo Stevie into recording some stuff (this ended up being the EP) .

Why does the band twist itself into knots trying to please Ms. Nicks far more than anyone else in the band? Ka-ching, ka-ching. And she knows it, and isn't afraid to use it. She'll threaten not to record, or not to tour (the card she played during SYW), threaten to go to the media ("How's it going to look when I go to RS and trash this project?" -- I forget which album she pulled that one on) and on and on and on and on.

Wow. Just wow. I hope some interviewer finds this and grills them about it. Because Stevie fills arenas she can do whatever she wants. But the guy who actually put the most work into the music doesn't so he gets the boot.

[Storms123]

Wow. Just wow. I hope some interviewer finds this and grills them about it. Because Stevie fills arenas she can do whatever she wants. But the guy who actually put the most work into the music doesn't so he gets the boot.

If Azoff was the maestro behind this debacle, with mick and Stevie his marionettes, do you think even if the deep recesses of his own mind, is sitting his is office going “Holy F*ck”. Actually that can be said for any of them I guess. I am sure the “band” thought the interview yesterday would have been well received and we can all move on. I mean, flyers showing up in CA???

[jcalzaretta]

Everyone has their own opinion.

1. I think recording with Lindsey was difficult. It came out during Say You Will. She was frustrated by pettiness of him asking her to change her verb tense.

2. He is creative. But what he did to Smile At You was hideous. I for one, was not overly impressed with Buckingham McVie. It did not grow on me.

3. Stevie did not leave the band. The band did not fire her. Thus Buckingham McVie could not be issued under Fleetwood Mac. The majority of the members obviously did not want to throw her out over that.

4. How do we know Stevie is not writing? We know she has a catalogue of songs. She was ok to issue 24 Karat Gold. She has enough for a second volume. Maybe she wants her music preserved to the way she wrote it. Is that really wrong? What are all of your skills? Would you be happy if you thought you did really good work and someone just always wanted to change it?

5. Yes LB helped with In Your Dreams. She asked him to help on Soldier Angel and she was thankful for it.

6. Do you really think Stevie controls the set lists at shows? Her solo shows have been rather diverse. This last one had a lot of old stuff. So maybe there is truth to people thinking that LB did not want to play pre Stevie and Lindsey stuff. Who knows. All speculation.

Kristen said it right. This band is the 5 of them together. That was magic. It was magic to create the music they did from the White Album to Tango in the Night. That is what we love. And we love to hear those songs. And we can always appreciate the music they gave us. And hearing Gold Dust Woman is still going to be great even with Mike Campbell on guitar just as it is when she sings it solo. Yes we lose with the LB penned songs. But we will all survive.

I find people are being unreasonably mean to Stevie with little proof. It's so frustrating. If Christine did not want LB gone, LB would not be gone. I really believe that. It is NOT all Stevie.

[FuzzyPlum]

Everyone has their own opinion.

1. I think recording with Lindsey was difficult. It came out during Say You Will. She was frustrated by pettiness of him asking her to change her verb tense.

But was that really such a big deal? Band mates are never going to agree 100% of the time and its surely fair enough to make suggestions to each other. Such discussions happen all the time in daily life. The normal response is to just disagree, stick to your guns and move on. No big deal.


2. He is creative. But what he did to Smile At You was hideous. I for one, was not overly impressed with Buckingham McVie. It did not grow on me.

She didn't have to go along with Smile At You. She's part of the creative process too. Surely she could step up and say 'I don't like that, can we keep it simple?'
They might then disagree, have a discussion and move on in a different direction.
IMHO Buckingham McVie was great but it would have been even better (and probably fitting last FM album had Stevie been involved. She was the last ingredient that was needed.

3. Stevie did not leave the band. The band did not fire her. Thus Buckingham McVie could not be issued under Fleetwood Mac. The majority of the members obviously did not want to throw her out over that.

They didn't want to, but they should have.
They are a band together.
They wanted to record.
She says 'No'. To me that = resignation.




Just a few observations ^^^^^^^^^^

[bombaysaffires]

Everyone has their own opinion.

1. I think recording with Lindsey was difficult. It came out during Say You Will. She was frustrated by pettiness of him asking her to change her verb tense.

2. He is creative. But what he did to Smile At You was hideous. I for one, was not overly impressed with Buckingham McVie. It did not grow on me.

3. Stevie did not leave the band. The band did not fire her. Thus Buckingham McVie could not be issued under Fleetwood Mac. The majority of the members obviously did not want to throw her out over that.

4. How do we know Stevie is not writing? We know she has a catalogue of songs. She was ok to issue 24 Karat Gold. She has enough for a second volume. Maybe she wants her music preserved to the way she wrote it. Is that really wrong? What are all of your skills? Would you be happy if you thought you did really good work and someone just always wanted to change it?

5. Yes LB helped with In Your Dreams. She asked him to help on Soldier Angel and she was thankful for it.

6. Do you really think Stevie controls the set lists at shows? Her solo shows have been rather diverse. This last one had a lot of old stuff. So maybe there is truth to people thinking that LB did not want to play pre Stevie and Lindsey stuff. Who knows. All speculation.

Kristen said it right. This band is the 5 of them together. That was magic. It was magic to create the music they did from the White Album to Tango in the Night. That is what we love. And we love to hear those songs. And we can always appreciate the music they gave us. And hearing Gold Dust Woman is still going to be great even with Mike Campbell on guitar just as it is when she sings it solo. Yes we lose with the LB penned songs. But we will all survive.

I find people are being unreasonably mean to Stevie with little proof. It's so frustrating. If Christine did not want LB gone, LB would not be gone. I really believe that. It is NOT all Stevie.

1. I think recording with Stevie has been difficult. For years she just wanted to show up and party. Getting her to get past gossiping with her entourage and focus was a challenge. She didn't take care of her amazing voice when she had it, instead mucking it up with drugs and cigarettes and booze and not resting properly etc. She just expected that Lindsey would be there to fix it all up with studio magic for her. Changing a verb tense is a crime?? Stevie's songs often could benefit from a good editor, as all great writers have had. You think Hemingway didn't have an editor?? Stevie suffers from the delusion that every raw lyric that comes out of her head is automatic perfection. Perfection takes work, it takes iteration, it takes crafting. She likes to think she produces flawless material. She. does. not. It becomes great with lots of work done by other people FOR her in the studio.

2. I agree they have grown in totally different musical directions; they are not on the same page anymore. The band, including LB, agreed after SYW to bring in an outside producer of her choosing for her material. If she were a better musician, or worked harder at conveying her vision for her songs, it would make everyone's job easier.

3. No, she just used her leverage as a key money draw to get them to acquiesce to what she was wanting to do, knowing full well they would never fire her. After everything-- what the hell would it take for them to fire her?? NOTHING and she knows it. It will always be her choice when she leaves FM.

4. If Stevie is writing, what are her plans for those songs? Let them sit till she dies? If someone is a prolific writer, you'd think they'd want their songs heard.. otherwise, what's the point? She's the one who has said she doesn't want to record new stuff anymore, because it won't make her money. So if new songs won't make her money, and money is her main motivation, why would she be writing new songs? An album of demos everyone has already heard makes sense, because she's likely figuring, " these songs are out there and I didn't get paid for them all these years, so I'm not really losing anything by putting them out again after recording them in a factory in Nashville." There was NO creativity there at all.

5. Stevie bashes Lindsey all the time (some of it deserved I'm sure) but then always, always, always turns to him to bail her out when she is stuck. She sends him demos more than you think to get ideas. Tom Petty even said, "he's the best producer of her material. I've been up all night figuring what to do with one of her songs and then he comes in and says do this or that and I go, oh, duh!" She knows this too and resents it, until she's stuck and then calls him and just expects him to bail her out.

6. For years, no DECADES, Stevie was the one who said over and over and over in interviews that "people don't want to hear new music at shows" and how they tried playing all new stuff on the Rumours tour and it tanked and they wouldn't do it again. So yeah, I think she had a strong opinion that she voiced about set lists. Stand Back was in the set. Do you imagine Lindsey, or John or Chris suggested that? The band has HER backup singers...do we think the band suggested that? She and Mick choreographed the whole fake S&L lovey dovey crap on the last couple tours before Chris returned. Lindsey (for some inexplicable reason) went along. I still hold him accountable for that. So yes, Stevie has a say in the set list.

Kristen said it right. This band is the 5 of them together. That was magic. It was magic to create the music they did from the White Album to Tango in the Night. That is what we love. And we love to hear those songs. And we can always appreciate the music they gave us. And hearing Gold Dust Woman is still going to be great even with Mike Campbell on guitar just as it is when she sings it solo. Yes we lose with the LB penned songs. But we will all survive.

Of course we will survive. But you miss the point. The magic is in THE FIVE, as you say. So when the songs that were made by THE FIVE are not played by THE FIVE but by stand-in players, it is NOT the same music. The chemistry is NOT there. Lindsey's mark is all over GDW and all the other songs we love. If they had been done by Stevie alone, they would not sound like what we fell in love with. Mike Campbell (whom I love and think is in a really sh%tty position in this) is not Lindsey. So he must either 1) mimic Lindsey's parts on songs, which is rather an insult to his own talents or 2)bring his own take to the songs, which makes them different, and NOT the songs of THE FIVE. Which is then not FM.

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=jcalzaretta;1224986]Everyone has their own opinion.

1. I think recording with Lindsey was difficult. It came out during Say You Will. She was frustrated by pettiness of him asking her to change her verb tense.

2. He is creative. But what he did to Smile At You was hideous. I for one, was not overly impressed with Buckingham McVie. It did not grow on me.

That's YOUR opinion. I think it's really cool what he did to that song.

[bombaysaffires]

If Azoff was the maestro behind this debacle, with mick and Stevie his marionettes, do you think even if the deep recesses of his own mind, is sitting his is office going “Holy F*ck”. Actually that can be said for any of them I guess. I am sure the “band” thought the interview yesterday would have been well received and we can all move on. I mean, flyers showing up in CA???

no, not yet. only, maaaaybe, if the tickets don't actually sell. they know talk is cheap, and that we are seen as just a bunch a cranky old farts who don't represent the majority of the ticket-buying public.

and I do think this tour will sell fine. Mike was a clever choice. People are feeling sentimental about Tom. That will play in the mix of people coming to see them. People are already saying, oh, maybe they'll play something from the Heartbreakers (I am willing to bet now they will, they'll have a Stevie/Mike moment in tribute to Tom). People are also wondering / hoping they'll do Don't Dream it's Over.

Not a Mac show to me. :sorry: But the masses don't pay that much attention or care all that much.

[SisterNightroad]

She didn't take care of her amazing voice when she had it, instead mucking it up with drugs and cigarettes and booze and not resting properly etc.

Changing a verb tense is a crime?? Stevie's songs often could benefit from a good editor, as all great writers have had. You think Hemingway didn't have an editor??
To be fair (and I somewhat agree with the rest you said) the first point you made is true for all the three singers of FM and Stevie is the only one who has learned to take consistent care of her voice in the past 20 years, and it's improper to compare Stevie's writing with Hemingway apart from the more obvious reasons also because writing lyrics for a song entails an entirely different medium from writing for a book.

[bombaysaffires]

To be fair (and I somewhat agree with the rest you said) the first point you made is true for all the three singers of FM and Stevie is the only one who has learned to take consistent care of her voice in the past 20 years, and it's improper to compare Stevie's writing with Hemingway apart from the more obvious reasons also because writing lyrics for a song entails an entirely different medium from writing for a book.

point taken, but even published poets have editors. :)

My main point was that no one in this band is above reproach, and you can find all sorts of unflattering and even unsavory aspects to each and every one of them.

It's not so much that they split up the five, which is always sad, it really is the way in which it was done.

[SisterNightroad]

point taken, but even published poets have editors. :)

My main point was that no one in this band is above reproach, and you can find all sorts of unflattering and even unsavory aspects to each and every one of them.

It's not so much that they split up the five, which is always sad, it really is the way in which it was done.
I agree, however this is how it is and I'm afraid we have to make a lemonade with it.

[dreamsunwind]

To be fair (and I somewhat agree with the rest you said) the first point you made is true for all the three singers of FM and Stevie is the only one who has learned to take consistent care of her voice in the past 20 years, and it's improper to compare Stevie's writing with Hemingway apart from the more obvious reasons also because writing lyrics for a song entails an entirely different medium from writing for a book.

Considering the fact that Stevie's voice is her only instrument, it makes sense people would focus primarily on her voice being shot over the others. Lindsey's voice is basically gone too but people get pretty caught up in his bomb guitar playing which is still amazing after all these years.

[bombaysaffires]

Considering the fact that Stevie's voice is her only instrument, it makes sense people would focus primarily on her voice being shot over the others. Lindsey's voice is basically gone too but people get pretty caught up in his bomb guitar playing which is still amazing after all these years.


Yes to this. Her role in the band is "the singer". Chris is singer/keyboard player and Lindsey is singer/guitarist.

[SisterNightroad]

Considering the fact that Stevie's voice is her only instrument, it makes sense people would focus primarily on her voice being shot over the others. Lindsey's voice is basically gone too but people get pretty caught up in his bomb guitar playing which is still amazing after all these years.
I don't know what "being shot over the others" means, however I wasn't objecting to bombaysaffires expressing their opinion on Stevie's voice, but merely saying that from a technical point of view she has learned to take care of her voice.

[bombaysaffires]

I don't know what "being shot over the others" means, however I wasn't objecting to bombaysaffires expressing their opinion on Stevie's voice, but merely saying that from a technical point of view she has learned to take care of her voice.

Yes, you are right, she has been working for years now to save what voice she's still got.

[dreamsunwind]

I don't know what "being shot over the others" means, however I wasn't objecting to bombaysaffires expressing their opinion on Stevie's voice, but merely saying that from a technical point of view she has learned to take care of her voice.

The full sentence was "people focusing primarily on her voice being shot over the others". Her= Stevie, others= the other singers (Lindsey and Christine) and their voices, because you raised the point that people keep focusing mostly on how Stevie's voice is shot when Lindsey & Christine's are as well.
And my point is that since Stevie is the lead singer and she plays no instruments, it makes total sense people would point out that her voice is shot. Which it is.

[SisterNightroad]

you raised the point that people keep focusing mostly on how Stevie's voice is shot when Lindsey & Christine's are as well.
I didn't say anywhere that "people keep focusing on how Stevie's voice is shot when Lindsey & Christine's are as well"; Bombaysaffires said Stevie didn't take care of voice, I responded that to be fair she's been doing it for a pretty long time, I don't remember well when she started but it's surely more than 20 years now, it was a conversation between the two of us and they seem to have understood my point.

[dreamsunwind]

I didn't say anywhere that "people keep focusing on how Stevie's voice is shot when Lindsey & Christine's are as well"; Bombaysaffires said Stevie didn't take care of voice, I responded that to be fair she's been doing it for a pretty long time, I don't remember well when she started but it's surely more than 20 years now, it was a conversation between the two of us and they seem to have understood my point.

Yeah you did. Bombaysaffires was talking about how Stevie messed up her voice and you replied saying that to be fair, that's true of all three singers. And so I commented saying that because Stevie is the lead singer, she has no instrument other than voice, it makes perfect sense that people will focus primarily on HER voice.

[SisterNightroad]

Yeah you did. Bombaysaffires was talking about how Stevie messed up her voice and you replied saying that to be fair, that's true of all three singers. And so I commented saying that because Stevie is the lead singer, she has no instrument other than voice, it makes perfect sense that people will focus primarily on HER voice.
Yes, exactly, they all have lost part of their voice but she's been working on her "instrument" as you call it already for quite long time.