article: A BAND IS MORE THAN THE SUM OF IT'S MEMBERS

[ricohv]

http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2018/04/a-band-is-more-than-sum-of-its-members.html
A band is more than the sum of its members
by Neil McCormick
The Sunday Telegraph
‘It is impossible to imagine the Beatles with any other configuration than John, Paul, George and Ringo’

Fleetwood Mac have changed their line-up. Again. The vintage rock band have had 18 members over 51 years, so perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised at their willingness to swap things about even at this late stage. Indeed, the latest twist in their convoluted saga has something of a superstar transfer about it. Last week, it was announced that vocalist and guitarist Lindsey Buckingham had left, with a source close to the band alleging the split was a result of “musical differences regarding the tour”. Two new members, singer songwriter Neil Finn, of Crowded House, and lead guitarist Mike Campbell, of the late Tom Petty’s Heartbreakers, have been brought in to replace his copious talents.

The question fans will be asking is what impact this latest rejig will have on the integrity of the band. The rest of Fleetwood Mac remains familiar, although the rhythm section of drummer Mick Fleetwood and bassist John McVie are the only members who have been there since the beginning (lending the band their name). Vocalist Stevie Nicks joined in 1974, left in 1991 and rejoined in 1996, while singing keyboard player Christine McVie joined in 1970, left in 1998 and rejoined 2014. And who now remembers Dave Walker, vocalist for the Mac in 1972-73, who subsequently replaced Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath for a year in 1977-78? It’s hard to imagine Sabbath and the Mac existing in the same musical universe, let alone sharing members. Perhaps given their revolving door policy, they should form a supergroup: Black Mac. Did you know that Sabbath have had eight singers and 25 members over their own 50-year career?


There is an ideal concept of a pop group as a close-knit, quasi-family unit, a perfect balance of musical personalities. It is impossible to imagine the Beatles with any other configuration than John, Paul, George and Ringo. But they were among a minority of successful bands that kept the same line-up after their first hit, who broke up when they fell out, and never reformed. The reality for most bands has turned out to be far more fluid. From The Rolling Stones to Arctic Monkeys, almost every major group still performing live after 10 years has gone through line-up changes. Indeed, it is easier to identify exceptions: ZZ Top (same line-up for 49 years), U2 (42 years), Radiohead (33 years), Coldplay (20 years) and, er, I think that’s about it.

Some groups manage these transitions more seamlessly than others. Pink Floyd became a supergroup after leader Syd Barrett was replaced by school friend David Gilmour. Genesis promoted drummer Phil Collins to frontman upon the departure of Peter Gabriel, but who now remembers when Stiltskin frontman Ray Wilson took over the microphone in 1997 for a final Genesis album that was such a critical and commercial flop they had to cancel a world tour? Some groups, including Iron Maiden, Metallica and Nirvana only reached their full artistic and commercial potential after line-up changes, so the classic version of the band is not actually the original.

There are groups who have changed their line-ups so often, there are no original members left – including The Hollies and Dr Feelgood – or have gone through so many changes they end up with competing versions arguing about who has the right to the name, including Yes, The Sweet and The Beat. Backline musicians come and go, but a distinctive singing voice and physical presence are harder to replicate, and many bands become little more than interchangeable vehicles for a frontman, including Robert Smith’s The Cure, Billy Corgan’s Smashing Pumpkins and Trent Reznor’s Nine Inch Nails.

Does that mean a band is really just a brand – a corporate vehicle on which to hang a set of songs? As a fan and regular concertgoer, I have to believe there is something more to it than that. Otherwise we might as well give up on the originals, and just go see tribute bands. In fact, there’s no reason why a reshuffle can’t offer a band a whole new lease of artistic life. That’s what makes Fleetwood Mac’s latest incarnation so intriguing. They have always sought out creative solutions to the problem of musicians departing, and Finn and Campbell are incredibly talented and successful musicians in their own rights. They don’t need to join any band to pay the mortgage; they have presumably been lured in by an opportunity to play fantastic songs and become part of an incredible saga.

I can’t wait to see the results, especially if the Mac are adventurous enough to add Finn’s gorgeous songs to the set. Stevie Nicks duetting on Don’t Dream It’s Over while Campbell rips out a tasty lead: who could resist that? Indeed, given the number of members they have had over their career, Crowded House might actually be a better name for the band.

[sue]

I was talking to my sister in law, who is not a big fan...
She said
“ well they were a good band before him and they’ll be a good band , now he’s left”.....
So what he’s gone, kind of thing. No big deal.....to her.

[iamnotafraid]

...my sister in law said
“ well they were a good band before him and they’ll be a good band , now he’s left”...

If Peter Green was still capable of touring
I might agree. But...

For me they are going to be really boring
without Lindsey. Death warmed over.

[Storms123]

If Peter Green was still capable of touring
I might agree. But...

For me they are going to be really boring
without Lindsey. Death warmed over.

He is a fantastic frontman--that's undeniable. And yes I agree--will be very boring without that presence and dynamic.

[Macfan4life]

Everyone is replaceable in a band. However when you change the core chemistry and sound of a band its really not the same. Fleetwood Mac went on without Lindsey, Christine, and Stevie before but it really was not the same. A guitarist and vocalist is such a vital member of a band.
Stevie sang Dreams, Rhiannon, Landslide, and Gypsy (all Mac songs) on her last solo tour. While you enjoy them as Mac songs, its not Fleetwood Mac. She could be singing with any cover band. For many this is ok. They just want to see Stevie twirl and sing. They have no interest in who the musicians are. The dynamic of the Mac on stage is pretty hard to beat. Removing one of its singers and sole guitarist impacts everything. Imagine Keith Richards being fired from the Rolling Stones. Is he replaceable? Yes. Does it impact the sound and dynamic of the band. Of course.
Bands replace members all the time. Sometimes additions like Joe Walsh to the Eagles and Stevie and Lindsey really make the band better. But the additions are not added just to "fill in" on a behind schedule tour. They were picked for their playing and creative juices. If the Mac went on to record several albums with the new members then its a different ball game. The Mac is at the end of its road. Its a shame we could not get a final album but now we cant even get a final tour with the Rumours line up. That is so incredibly sad IMHO. Everyone knows these members are just there to finish some contractually obligated tour. This is NOT to discredit them (new members). Its to discredit the band who cant even do one last tour with stupid drama.

[button-lip]

I was talking to my sister in law, who is not a big fan...
She said
“ well they were a good band before him and they’ll be a good band , now he’s left”.....
So what he’s gone, kind of thing. No big deal.....to her.

While I respect your sister’s opinion, that’s the difference between being a casual fan and a big fan :p

My sister isn’t also a big fan but she’s against the change. She thinks it won’t be the same and the band will lost its magic. Of course she has me as her sister, so it’s hard to think otherwise. :laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

The promoter I work with(who thought he was breaking the news to me last week - I'd known for days, lol), is a pretty big casual fan. He's always told me that Lindsey IS the show, and he'll never go again, unless Lindsey would come back.

So it DOES matter to some casual fans. Well, I guess casual fans who aren't Chiffonheads.

[Lola]

I enjoyed reading this. I've always been a metalhead. I'd love to hear Stevie wailing over some doomy Black Sabbath or Motorhead cover Tusk which won't happen. Anyway "Black Mac" made me laugh out loud in a good way.

I suspect we'll see more articles like this (prepping fans for the lineup change and promoting the idea of new music) the closer we get to the tour announcement.

[elle]

thanks for sharing.

MODS: this is an article advertising post-rumours era band, so along with discussion should we moved to post-rumours.

[jkmaletic]

The title of this article - Didn't Lindsey himself say once (or perhaps more than once), something about the band "being more than the sum of its parts"? Ironic.

[ricohv]

I'm trying to see this situation in a "glass is half full" sort of way: maybe Stevie will come to life again without Lindsey there-knowing someone has to pick up the pace. She will never be the whirling dervish of old BUT she might step it up in some of the ways she did on her last tour (e.g. add a little 'performance art', a la Moonlight, etc.) and maybe interact with the new members in ways she hasn't been doing with Lindsey (other than the phony hand holding) ...

" I can’t wait to see the results, especially if the Mac are adventurous enough to add Finn’s gorgeous songs to the set. Stevie Nicks duetting on Don’t Dream It’s Over while Campbell rips out a tasty lead: who could resist that?"
^Things like that might actually add a little life to the set! *Fingers crossed*
Ricoh

[Storms123]

I'm trying to see this situation in a "glass is half full" sort of way: maybe Stevie will come to life again without Lindsey there-knowing someone has to pick up the pace. She will never be the whirling dervish of old BUT she might step it up in some of the ways she did on her last tour (e.g. add a little 'performance art', a la Moonlight, etc.) and maybe interact with the new members in ways she hasn't been doing with Lindsey (other than the phony hand holding) ...

" I can’t wait to see the results, especially if the Mac are adventurous enough to add Finn’s gorgeous songs to the set. Stevie Nicks duetting on Don’t Dream It’s Over while Campbell rips out a tasty lead: who could resist that?"
^Things like that might actually add a little life to the set! *Fingers crossed*
Ricoh


She’s going to have to step it up. Mike Campbell is a great guitarist but he’s not a frontman. Neil, I don’t know, but if the promoters chose to throw themselves behind Stevie, she’s got deliver. I have no doubt she will but even she takes a break mid set. On her solo tour, her stories were also an opportunity to take a breather. She’s not going to be able to chat away on this tour like she did on the last, and since Lindsey is so woven into the FM songs, her mentionitis could kick in and that would be awkward.

[sue]

She’s going to have to step it up. Mike Campbell is a great guitarist but he’s not a frontman. Neil, I don’t know, but if the promoters chose to throw themselves behind Stevie, she’s got deliver. I have no doubt she will but even she takes a break mid set. On her solo tour, her stories were also an opportunity to take a breather. She’s not going to be able to chat away on this tour like she did on the last, and since Lindsey is so woven into the FM songs, her mentionitis could kick in and that would be awkward.

And Christine, don’t forget..
They’ll both have to up their game to equal half the energy of Lindsey.

[elle]

She’s going to have to step it up. Mike Campbell is a great guitarist but he’s not a frontman. Neil, I don’t know, but if the promoters chose to throw themselves behind Stevie, she’s got deliver. I have no doubt she will but even she takes a break mid set. On her solo tour, her stories were also an opportunity to take a breather. She’s not going to be able to chat away on this tour like she did on the last, and since Lindsey is so woven into the FM songs, her mentionitis could kick in and that would be awkward.

:laugh: maybe she'll just turn all the stories into stories about Tom?

or stories bashing Lindsey could also be a possibility?

i just heard Neil Finn will be touring solo in parallel and all his fans are boycotting seeing him with FM. not sure how true that is, but wouldn't that be karmic and circular considering the solo tour in parallel is cited reason for kicking Lindsey out? :)

[Lola]

Wednesday 30 May 2018
Neil Finn
Sydney Opera House, Sydney, NSW, Australia
I also see May 31 and June 30th. He had dates in March. I don't see anything for this month. This stuff must have already been scheduled?

[Lola]

Few comments I found on a Neil Finn fan site:


If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore, thumb

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online. thumb

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th. thumb

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.thumb

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3. thumb

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

[Lola]

another one:

As far as projects there are positives, as mentioned on the NEWS page at www.frenz.com/neilfinn/ the Liam-Neil album is still on release for late August (around the 24th) and various promotional ideas are being talked about. (more on that closer to release). There have been time periods where Neil hasn't toured etc we all survived those and new music (and gigs) were created and performed. I like that he makes detours, maybe it also keeps the adventure fresh for him too?

[elle]

Wednesday 30 May 2018
Neil Finn
Sydney Opera House, Sydney, NSW, Australia
I also see May 31 and June 30th. He had dates in March. I don't see anything for this month. This stuff must have already been scheduled?

Few comments I found on a Neil Finn fan site:


If you see Neil's website, you'll notice Neil & Liam album's still planned for release. So that equals new music in 2018. Therefore, thumb

This comes only months after his last highly acclaimed solo album which we watched the production of online. thumb

Neil is scheduled to perform with orchestra on three dates in Australia in May and June and is already booked for one in L.A. on March 24th. thumb

More people around the world are being exposed to and reminded of Neil's name and work. The graphs showing the increase of follower numbers on the Neil Finn Facebook page and visits to neilfinn.com look like something you see in movies.thumb

It's very unlikely that Neil would have released more new music in 2019 so soon after the Neil & Liam album and Out Of Silence, but meeting and jamming with other musicians while touring the world could lead to new collaborations in song or on stage. Imagine 7 Worlds Collide 3. thumb

I doubt there would have been new music from Crowded House in the next few years anyway. Joining Fleetwood Mac for this tour doesn't mean Neil's signed away all his time beyond that, so anything can still happen.

someone from the UK just shared similar info in our fb groups.

karma.

[elle]

another one:

As far as projects there are positives, as mentioned on the NEWS page at www.frenz.com/neilfinn/ the Liam-Neil album is still on release for late August (around the 24th) and various promotional ideas are being talked about. (more on that closer to release). There have been time periods where Neil hasn't toured etc we all survived those and new music (and gigs) were created and performed. I like that he makes detours, maybe it also keeps the adventure fresh for him too?
how ironic would that be if he tours solo at the same time as with the Mac?

all those FM apologists saying that LB "deserved" to be dumped for even considering the same would just have to sit down.

but we know they'll just move to a new "theory" to make sure the real ugly truth does not come out.

[Lola]

someone from the UK just shared similar info in our fb groups.

karma.

Petting one of my cats......Attempting to remain calm........

[bwboy]

So Neil Finn has 3 solo dates scheduled for May and June... and no dates for the Fleetwood Mac tour have been listed yet, and today is April 17. The tour probably won't start until August. How anyone could possibly compare Neil performing 3 solo dates BEFORE the FM tour even begins to Lindsey touring solo AND with FM at the same time, and for several dates, is beyond me. If that was even the reason for the split. But the point is, they are very different scenarios. I am quite certain if Lindsey had 3 solo tour dates in May and June, that would not have been an issue for the other band members.

[Macfan4life]

So Neil Finn has 3 solo dates scheduled for May and June... and no dates for the Fleetwood Mac tour have been listed yet, and today is April 17. The tour probably won't start until August. How anyone could possibly compare Neil performing 3 solo dates BEFORE the FM tour even begins to Lindsey touring solo AND with FM at the same time, and for several dates, is beyond me. If that was even the reason for the split. But the point is, they are very different scenarios. I am quite certain if Lindsey had 3 solo tour dates in May and June, that would not have been an issue for the other band members.
What
How can you be so certain. Its a valid point IF Mick or the concert promoter had a cow Lindsey was touring the same time as the Mac and the new member also has dates scheduled. It IS the same thing because it shows and demonstrates a complete lack of compromise on the band's part. Which also brings another point. Is the touring only a small aspect as to why Lindsey was fired? Its not a coincidence IMHO that one band member refused to enter the studio with Lindsey. Its not honest to say this part of the equation had nothing to do with Lindsey getting fired.

[aleuzzi]

http://www.fleetwoodmacnews.com/2018/04/a-band-is-more-than-sum-of-its-members.html
A band is more than the sum of its members
by Neil McCormick
The Sunday Telegraph
‘It is impossible to imagine the Beatles with any other configuration than John, Paul, George and Ringo’



I can’t wait to see the results, especially if the Mac are adventurous enough to add Finn’s gorgeous songs to the set. Stevie Nicks duetting on Don’t Dream It’s Over while Campbell rips out a tasty lead: who could resist that?

I could. I could resist it easily. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but right now the thought of a new lineup, especially a six-piece, is unappetizing.

[elle]

What
How can you be so certain. Its a valid point IF Mick or the concert promoter had a cow Lindsey was touring the same time as the Mac and the new member also has dates scheduled. It IS the same thing because it shows and demonstrates a complete lack of compromise on the band's part. Which also brings another point. Is the touring only a small aspect as to why Lindsey was fired? [B]Its not a coincidence IMHO that one band member refused to enter the studio with Lindsey. Its not honest to say this part of the equation had nothing to do with Lindsey getting fired.

thank you!

we are trying to stay above the fray here, and really hard. meanwhile we have to read these ridiculous SN-apologist chiffonheads posts (while claiming they oh so love LB no less!).

yes - we KNOW there were 2 main parts to the equation:


Stevie said him or me.
he asked Mac corporation to cover some logistics costs of his solo tour, when they wouldn't accommodate moving tour dates so he can get his solo tour in first. that would cut into corporate profits.

[GypsySorcerer]

The promoter I work with(who thought he was breaking the news to me last week - I'd known for days, lol), is a pretty big casual fan. He's always told me that Lindsey IS the show, and he'll never go again, unless Lindsey would come back.

So it DOES matter to some casual fans. Well, I guess casual fans who aren't Chiffonheads.

One thing I noticed after overhearing lots of casual fans' comments at FM shows: they arrive talking about Stevie, but they leave talking about Lindsey. Every single time I've seen them, I hear these fans talking about his energy, how underrated of a guitarist he is, how they "didn't realize he was that good," etc. I've brought casual fans along to shows with me, and they say the same thing: he carries the show.

[Lola]

One thing I noticed after overhearing lots of casual fans' comments at FM shows: they arrive talking about Stevie, but they leave talking about Lindsey. Every single time I've seen them, I hear these fans talking about his energy, how underrated of a guitarist he is, how they "didn't realize he was that good," etc. I've brought casual fans along to shows with me, and they say the same thing: he carries the show.

I can confirm this. My sister was blown away by his energy level. My niece (22 at the time) was like how old is that guy? Is he always like that? And she liked his jeans :laugh:

[Storms123]

I could. I could resist it easily. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but right now the thought of a new lineup, especially a six-piece, is unappetizing.

Because right now it's a FM/Heartbreakers cover band?

[dreamsunwind]

What
How can you be so certain. Its a valid point IF Mick or the concert promoter had a cow Lindsey was touring the same time as the Mac and the new member also has dates scheduled. It IS the same thing because it shows and demonstrates a complete lack of compromise on the band's part. Which also brings another point. Is the touring only a small aspect as to why Lindsey was fired? Its not a coincidence IMHO that one band member refused to enter the studio with Lindsey. Its not honest to say this part of the equation had nothing to do with Lindsey getting fired.

I think it's both. His requests for the touring scheduling just went over her patience level. He probably put his foot down insisting he wanted to do his dates and she got annoyed/fed up/thought he was asking too much and snapped, putting her foot down aka 'him or me'.

I just feel badly for Lindsey for how this played out. I get that what he wanted was hard to work around but it must be so awful to see them toss you out like that over it. Especially considering he's put more actual effort into the band than anyone. He does most of the work behind the scenes and provides ALL the energy onstage.

[TheWildHeart67]

The promoter I work with(who thought he was breaking the news to me last week - I'd known for days, lol), is a pretty big casual fan. He's always told me that Lindsey IS the show, and he'll never go again, unless Lindsey would come back.

So it DOES matter to some casual fans. Well, I guess casual fans who aren't Chiffonheads.

I am a huge Stevie fan. But without Lindsey, I'm not going to attend the upcoming Mac tour.

[TheWildHeart67]

I think it's both. His requests for the touring scheduling just went over her patience level. He probably put his foot down insisting he wanted to do his dates and she got annoyed/fed up/thought he was asking too much and snapped, putting her foot down aka 'him or me'.

I just feel badly for Lindsey for how this played out. I get that what he wanted was hard to work around but it must be so awful to see them toss you out like that over it. Especially considering he's put more actual effort into the band than anyone. He does most of the work behind the scenes and provides ALL the energy onstage.

None of us knows for sure why he left.
We can assume all we want. But we don't know what happened.
Regardless, without all 5 "Rumours" lineup, it simply isn't what I consider FM

[dreamsunwind]

None of us knows for sure why he left.
We can assume all we want. But we don't know what happened.
Regardless, without all 5 "Rumours" lineup, it simply isn't what I consider FM

Obviously no one who wasn't actually there can know what truly went down, but practically every single 'source' has said it all started with the conflict over the tour dates.
The most useful piece of information we've gotten is the conversation that Elle posted with Rick Turner and it does seem indicate that that is what was at the base of it, and presumably it got ugly from there.

[jbrownsjr]

None of us knows for sure why he left.
We can assume all we want. But we don't know what happened.
Regardless, without all 5 "Rumours" lineup, it simply isn't what I consider FM

They really must have ticked you off. Because you've been a great supporter of this band. You've even called me out for my bitching... (which I'm fine with)

I truly understand the disappointment. It's just such a slimey move. Do they care so little for their fans? Grown ass people.. and they let commerce get in the way of what they always sold us as magic. It hurts.