This was likely a Business Decision

[jkmaletic]

According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac. :shrug:


Jamie

[jkmaletic]

For convenience purposes, here is the Rick Turner Facebook conversation:


the whole convo -

Rick Turner At one point, Lindsey had proposed that both FM and he with his band tour at the same time with the LB band filling in dates between the FM shows. The report was that Stevie wanted at least a day between gigs; Lindsey wanted to play as much as possible. That's what I heard from a most reliable source at the NAMM show in January.

Elle Llewi heard the same. thanks so much for filling this in Rick!

Elle Llew Rick Turner is it ok if i quote this on The Ledge? it's a google-able place and people sometimes check there.

Rick Turner Elle Llew Sure. I think it just points out one point of contention. Maybe it looked to some as though LB was going to do really well touring hard; perhaps not doubling his money on the tour, but certainly getting in nearly twice the audience face tim...See More

Elle Llew Rick Turner 😪 this makes me sad even more. what a f**king shame!

Elle Llew (excuse my language)

Rick Turner The whole thing is a mess, and I'm sorry for them all. I've had some memorable moments with that crew!

Haley Clark So then tensions were already high at Musicares. Because NAMM and Musicares were the same weekend. Which is probably what led to Stevie and Lindsey having their fight. And the rest is history.

Felix Le Chat Rick this is the most disgusting thing to hear: all could have been avoided.
Give Stevie 2, 3 or even 4 days between shows. I wouldn’t mind to visit consecutive LB gigs 😜
...See More

Pattie D I know for a fact that LB wanted to do a solo tour in between the FM tour. He did say that it was complicated and I guess he wasn't kidding.
I hope he gets to do the solo tour after all. I will not support Fleetwood Mac anymore.

Rick Turner Felix Le Chat Lindsey would have gotten more press than Stevie if they'd done a double tour like that.

Pattie D I really couldn't see Fleetwood Mac going along with his plans. What if people couldn't afford to see FM and went to see LB instead as it was more economical? Big problem.

Rick Turner Pattie D Would have to have been planned for different cities.

Pattie D I could see where that would get costly. Not to mention would the crew get any rest?

Elle Llew but that makes complete sense:

FM plays arena in downtown DC. LB solo plays the Fillmore in Silver Spring, MD.

FM plays MSG . LB solo plays Red Bank, NJ.

easy peasy!

Felix Le Chat Rick Turner : a logistical nightmare (aside from costs) 😝 to have it in different cities.
Most cities do have multiple venues. Although in this group the LB fan ship reels highly I do believe Lindsey would have been ok to play smaller venues than FM.

And I’m sure he got enough guitars 🎸 for 2 sets (if not you could probably help on that 😜


Rick Turner Pattie D Well, it would just be two interlaced tours with some of the folks working practically every night. But that's what they do in musical theater...Broadway and off-Broadway actors do eight shows a week...six nights and two matinees. That's what professionals are capable of. At one point the Beach Boys were often enough doing two gigs on the same day, and on at least one day, they did three...in three different cities. Lot's of alimony to pay for those guys!

Pattie D Don't forget Providence after FM plays Boston, Elle. LOL

Elle LlewYPattie D i'm self serving

Rick Turner It would have been doable. It just needed everyone's buy-in.

Pattie D Well sadly it's never going to happen now.

Elle Llew Felix Le Chat nope, wouldn't be. see above. FM plays cities, LB solo suburbs. works!



here's the link to these posts: https://www.facebook.com/groups/8972...5412200239934/

[button-lip]

Rick Turner The whole thing is a mess, and I'm sorry for them all. I've had some memorable moments with that crew!



Love that part of the convo! There was nothing amicable here.

[elle]

According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac. :shrug:


Jamie

and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.

[SisterNightroad]

and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.
But the Pretenders weren't part of her own solo band, just the opening act, nor did they use her staff/crew. If Waddy or Al were to ask her if they could join another tour during 24K Gold I think she'd surely deny.

[elle]

But the Pretenders weren't part of her own solo band, just the opening act, nor did they use her staff/crew. If Waddy or Al were to ask her if they could join another tour during 24K Gold I think she'd surely deny.
the pretenders were a big part of the draw for her tour. and same people were playing in the pretenders opening for her and at their solo gigs.

[SisterNightroad]

Of course, the point is that they are a separate band with a separate entourage.

[FuzzyPlum]

According to Elle's post (On the Mick's Social Media thread) of the Facebook conversation with Rick Turner, this sounds like it was a business decision, plain and simple.

I'm no business expert, but clearly it would not make good business sense for them to allow Lindsey to solo tour in between the Mac shows. If Stevie or Christine asked to do that, they would be shot down too. Let's say Don Henley asked to do the same thing during an Eagles tour - do you think the rest of the band members would allow that? Uh, NO. How about the Police? - If Sting asked the other members if he could do solo shows in between Police tour dates, I also doubt they would allow that. So if Lindsey indeed came to them and asked them about doing the in between solo shows and they wouldn't allow it, Lindsey must have insisted, which caused Mick/the rest of them to dismiss him.

Yes, there might be more to it than this, but this is probably the biggest reason for Lindsey's ousting.

I'm no tour manager, but as far as Lindsey's solo career goes, doesn't he have a solo album coming out this month? If so, I'm wondering why he couldn't tour it BEFORE Fleetwood Mac starts (allegedly) in the Fall? If he did that, he probably would have been able to stay with Fleetwood Mac. :shrug:


Jamie

I'd guess that was probably the likely plan originally. Lindsey's album release was delayed/cancelled/held back. Perhaps it just wasn't ready for release. Lindsey then said 'Look guys, I've got an album coming out but promo is going to need to overlap with Fleetwood Mac dates'.
Either that or FM tour was brought forward. I recall them discussing the start of the tour in the Autumn now its supposedly going to kick off in the summer.

Anyway, when we are talking about Lindsey Buckingham entourage, what are we talking? I mean, One Man Show - Elle, what would that have involved in terms of personnel?

[sue]

Have this lot never heard of forward planning ?
Or planning of any kind

My daughter gets married May 2019.....invites ready, dress measured and ordered, food sorted etc etc

[jkmaletic]

Have this lot never heard of forward planning ?
Or planning of any kind

My daughter gets married May 2019.....invites ready, dress measured and ordered, food sorted etc etc

Lol, "planning"...not with this band.

I remember some years ago there was a Fleetwood Mac fan club. Part of the fan club package was a wall calendar. Those calendars didn't get mailed out to the fans until part of that calendar year was already over. It was the biggest inside joke between fans at the time. :laugh:

Jamie

[TrueFaith77]

The idea that Lindsey's boutique concerts in support of a solo "best of" collection would cut into even an iota of Mac tour revenue is ludicrous. This wouldn't work for Stevie because I do think she would impact Mac revenues touring simultaneously.

It actually seems like an elegant solution to usual Mac tension of solo and group careers. The motivations behind using this as the excuse to excommunicate Lindsey are frightening to contemplate.

[bwboy]

I agree, there's a world of difference between an opening act playing their own gig on a night off and someone from the same band playing a solo gig on a night off. The Pretenders only did it a few times, anyway, but even if they had done it 100 times, it's not the same thing. I would have this opinion whether it was Lindsey asking for it or it was Stevie asking for it. It would be ridiculous for Stevie to ask to perform solo shows on the nights FM had off.

I feel badly for Lindsey because this reeks of bad timing that's probably out of his control. He probably agreed to this tour last year, I mean he's mentioned before FM was going on your in 2018, but his record company probably dictates when they'll release the record, so that's out of his control, but of course he would want to perform solo gigs when the record is released. Likewise, I can see why the rest of the band doesn't like the idea that one of their frontline band members would be dividing his time between two tours. Logistically it's crazy, plus it's competition for their own tour.

[bombaysaffires]

I can see where an overlap in material might be a point of contention or negotiation-- e.g., "please don't do GYOW or whatever which is a big part of the FM repertoire in your solo shows"....but otherwise... I mean, no offense to LB, but the audiences that go to his solo shows (and I'm one of them) aren't going to wipe out huge profits from FM:sorry:

I mean really, what songs are we talking about that could overlap with both gigs? GYOW? SHN? Tusk? I can see them not wanting him to do those in both places, and having that debate.

Diehard fans would try and see both shows (same if it were Stevie doing smaller venues and stripped down versions of her songs whilst on a Mac tour). And yes, honestly, if it were Stevie her doing solo shows might well impact ticket sales for FM as she's a main draw for many of the more casual fans as well.

Still, while I get the legitimate arguments that can be made business-wise on both sides, I'm trying to envision how it got to the breaking point. If people were saying it was Lindsey who pitched a fit and said, "That's it, I'm out" it would make a lot more sense to me. But them saying, 'look, you're fired'.... Again, if it was a biz negotiation and they gave him an ultimatum of "either you do just the Mac tour or your solo tour, but not both" and forced HIM to make the choice, again I would understand.

But the stories coming out are that THEY kicked him out. Further, we hear that Stevie said she couldn't work with him anymore or wouldn't, and that possibly Mick polled promoters to see who they thought would sell more seats, Stevie or Lindsey, and then decided accordingly who could stay in and who had to leave the band.

The more I think about it, the only way it makes sense is if the band said to him, we won't support the solo gigs, and you need to commit to just FM or just solo but not both, and he chose solo. It's harder to get to the convo of "you're fired" based on this business stuff..:shrug:

[FuzzyPlum]

I can see where an overlap in material might be a point of contention or negotiation-- e.g., "please don't do GYOW or whatever which is a big part of the FM repertoire in your solo shows"....but otherwise... I mean, no offense to LB, but the audiences that go to his solo shows (and I'm one of them) aren't going to wipe out huge profits from FM:sorry:

I mean really, what songs are we talking about that could overlap with both gigs? GYOW? SHN? Tusk? I can see them not wanting him to do those in both places, and having that debate.

Diehard fans would try and see both shows (same if it were Stevie doing smaller venues and stripped down versions of her songs whilst on a Mac tour). And yes, honestly, if it were Stevie her doing solo shows might well impact ticket sales for FM as she's a main draw for many of the more casual fans as well.

Still, while I get the legitimate arguments that can be made business-wise on both sides, I'm trying to envision how it got to the breaking point. If people were saying it was Lindsey who pitched a fit and said, "That's it, I'm out" it would make a lot more sense to me. But them saying, 'look, you're fired'.... Again, if it was a biz negotiation and they gave him an ultimatum of "either you do just the Mac tour or your solo tour, but not both" and forced HIM to make the choice, again I would understand.

But the stories coming out are that THEY kicked him out. Further, we hear that Stevie said she couldn't work with him anymore or wouldn't, and that possibly Mick polled promoters to see who they thought would sell more seats, Stevie or Lindsey, and then decided accordingly who could stay in and who had to leave the band.

The more I think about it, the only way it makes sense is if the band said to him, we won't support the solo gigs, and you need to commit to just FM or just solo but not both, and he chose solo. It's harder to get to the convo of "you're fired" based on this business stuff..:shrug:



...furthermore we are led to believe he asked to be allowed back. That would suggest after he was fired he went back to them and said 'Fine, I wont do the solo tour, I'll just do Fleetwood Mac shows'.
Surely if that's the case then they should have said 'Cool, lets go'.
Instead they refused.

[jbrownsjr]

and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.

Great point!!

[Tango]

Great point!!

There is a comparison, I agree. Here's the difference. The Pretenders are a totally different band. Lindsey is an integral member of Fleetwood Mac (or was, until this insanity began). If Chrissy Hind goes off and exhausts herself doing a solo gig, no problem- it reflects only on her. If Lindsey goes off with his solo plans and then is unable to do the PR crap that goes along with either gig, there will be some friction. Fleetwood Mac demands all. Does it matter? Well, if The Big Machine is financing the travel, hoteling, etc, I suspect The Big Machine has great expectations of it's members. For Lindsey doing this mingled tour is win-win. He gets critical PR exposure. His traveling and lodging is largely helped out by The Big Machine. Maybe Lindsey's solo outing with the intermingling could have been somewhat beneficial for Fleetwood Mac, but it chiefly benefitted Lindsey. (So what? Does it matter that Lindsey got the win win?) I do agree with the premise of the opening thread, that it is likely (and maybe largely) a business decision:

But I am suspecting the wish of The Big Machine was for Lindsey to have done his solo work in completion before or after Fleetwood Mac's outing. AGAIN, this is ALL a bunch of IFs. If Stevie was willing to accommodate Chrissy (and Chrissy, like Lindsey tours on a TINY scale compared to Fleetwood Mac), that was her choice. The PR for Stevie's small scale outing coupled with The Pretenders PR was tiny. Fleetwood Mac is the big machine. The FM Machine is not willing to compromise, and neither was Lindsey.

In the end, I think they are all damaged by this whole thing.

[bwboy]

Great point!!

This just seems biased, and I'll say why:

Using that argument, that Stevie didn't mind the Pretenders performing solo gigs during the 24 Karat Gold tour, it stands to reason Stevie wouldn't have minded Lindsey doing it during the upcoming tour, too. But the simple fact is, it's not an accurate comparison. Now, if Waddy or her backup singers or someone else in her band had performed with the Pretenders on their solo gigs, she probably would have had an issue with that, because she's paying her band for their time, including hotels, etc.

Furthermore, some people seem to forget that there are two other members of FM that might have had concerns about the two tours. But Lindsey fans are focused on Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick. They think that Christine is bound by some sort of iron-clad contract that forces her to go along with FM. Christine can't possibly be in agreement with this decision to let Lindsey go. Perhaps they think Christine is at home crying in her pillow, because she's so devastated that Stevie and Mick have betrayed Lindsey this way, and there's. nothing. she. can. do. about. it. Well, maybe that makes them feel better.

Clearly, John and Christine have just as much a say as anyone else in the band. They could have demanded Lindsey be allowed any provisions he needed to be able to stay in FM, or they could have said they would walk. Or tour with Lindsey instead. Or they could have claimed they were not up to touring. They could have passed on letting Mike Campbell or Neil Finn join. They are not innocent bystanders here. Yet somehow, people direct their anger on Mick and Stevie only. Or they might respond "well I'm angry at them too!" but then go right back to Mick and Stevie.

[FuzzyPlum]

I can't speak for anyone else but I for one am pi$$ed off with all 4 of them.
I think you (bwboy) made a comment in another forum about people showing allegiances to their favourite members... well I can honestly say I've lost respect for Christine. I'm big enough and mature enough to appreciate Lindsey has been wronged and I'm not going to speak up for Christine just for the sake of it. I'm too much of a grown up for those sort of games.

[bwboy]

I can't speak for anyone else but I for one am pi$$ed off with all 4 of them.
I think you (bwboy) made a comment in another forum about people showing allegiances to their favourite members... well I can honestly say I've lost respect for Christine. I'm big enough and mature enough to appreciate Lindsey has been wronged and I'm not going to speak up for Christine just for the sake of it. I'm too much of a grown up for those sort of games.

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

[Macfan4life]

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.
C'mon man
You don't live in a bubble. Its Mick's band. No one can get fired if Mick does not agree. Who in the band does not get along with Lindsey and refused to record a new album because he was there? Stevie. You know this but pretend somehow Christine and John are equal parts. They don't have a 40 year grievance with Lindsey like Stevie does. You are pretending or kidding yourself. What I blame Christine for is not standing up to the decision. Christine could have saved him. But that is NOT the same of those who have an agenda against Lindsey (whether you agree or disagree with that agenda). Its a fantasy to think the 4 members said YOU ARE FIRED LINDSEY. We don't want you to promote your solo album and we don't like the way you carry on with Stevie. Simply unbelievable.
Like the course of history, there are horrible leaders who do horrible things. Then there are the cowards who don't stand up and don't protest the leader doing the horrible things.

[FuzzyPlum]

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.


Absolutely. But surely its clear to see Mick and Stevie are the power of the band. Mick is/has been the de facto leader but Stevie has taken that mantle now. Chris and John are complicit but nothing more than enablers so its only right M&S are receiving the most vitriol.

[MaryLiz2]

It probably was me, and while that may not apply to everyone, just look back at a number of these threads and you'll see "Stevie and Mick, Stevie and Mick" and no mention for Christine or John, except for the occasional "Christine is probably contracted to do this tour." It's important to remember there are, or were, 5 people in this band and a decision like this should reflect on all of them.

Yup. And as far as Christine just going along with things...my memory can be foggy, but back when the rest of the band had their shorts in a knot over Stevie's Rolling Stone cover story Christine PARTICIPATED by being interviewed for the article. Christine does what she wants.

Agree with your prior reasoning on the difference between Lindsey and The Pretenders booking different shows. And not for nothing (and again I may be foggy on the specifics, so I beg forgiveness if I'm wrong), but didn't Stevie hold off on touring in support of 24 Karat Gold because of an FM tour? The album was released in 2014, but she didn't begin the 24 Karat Gold Tour until 2016 due to On With the Show. I'm not one in the "Stevie's fault! Stevie's fault!" camp with the actual verified evidence available... BUT I can also see her being petty enough to figure she had to wait to do her own tour, Lindsey can wait to do his. Pettiest band of all time, these Macs. :rolleyes:

[bwboy]

They don't have a 40 year grievance with Lindsey like Stevie does. You are pretending or kidding yourself. What I blame Christine for is not standing up to the decision. Christine could have saved him. But that is NOT the same of those who have an agenda against Lindsey (whether you agree or disagree with that agenda). Its a fantasy to think the 4 members said YOU ARE FIRED LINDSEY. We don't want you to promote your solo album and we don't like the way you carry on with Stevie. Simply unbelievable.
Like the course of history, there are horrible leaders who do horrible things. Then there are the cowards who don't stand up and don't protest the leader doing the horrible things.

I don't think this was a decision Stevie was waiting 40 years for. She was upset when Lindsey left in 1987. She happily reunited with him back in 1996. She recorded Say You Will and an EP with him. She toured with him without Christine 3 times. She invited him to perform at a benefit for the Heart Foundation and he accepted. He invited her to appear with him on his Sound Stage concert and she accepted. I don't believe she has an agenda against him. Nor do I believe Lindsey has an agenda against her. That doesn't mean the band didn't make a stupid, potentially legacy-damaging decision, but no, I don't believe this is a culmination of 40 years of grievances on anyone's part.

[sue]

What I don’t understand..
If this is about Lindsey wanting to promote his solo album with a solo tour, why couldn’t he just postpone?

Stevie had 24 karat gold come out but toured with Fmac (on with the show)
She had to postpone promoting 24 karat gold, till On with the show tour ended.

She toured with Fmac as Christine had returned, and 24 karat gold promo tour had to wait.

[bwboy]

Yup. And as far as Christine just going along with things...my memory can be foggy, but back when the rest of the band had their shorts in a knot over Stevie's Rolling Stone cover story Christine PARTICIPATED by being interviewed for the article. Christine does what she wants.

Agree with your prior reasoning on the difference between Lindsey and The Pretenders booking different shows. And not for nothing (and again I may be foggy on the specifics, so I beg forgiveness if I'm wrong), but didn't Stevie hold off on touring in support of 24 Karat Gold because of an FM tour? The album was released in 2014, but she didn't begin the 24 Karat Gold Tour until 2016 due to On With the Show. I'm not one in the "Stevie's fault! Stevie's fault!" camp with the actual verified evidence available... BUT I can also see her being petty enough to figure she had to wait to do her own tour, Lindsey can wait to do his. Pettiest band of all time, these Macs. :rolleyes:

Yes, 24 Karat Gold was released right before she went on tour with FM. And she didn't sing one song from that album on that tour. Not that she should get a medal for that, but yes, she kept her commitment to the band and I don't recall her complaining about not being able to tour for 24 Karat Gold until 2 years later. But I agree with you, I could also see Stevie using that same standard with Lindsey. Right or wrong, at least no one can say she was asking for special treatment back then, and then refusing to give him the same treatment now.

[MaryLiz2]

Yes, 24 Karat Gold was released right before she went on tour with FM. And she didn't sing one song from that album on that tour. Not that she should get a medal for that, but yes, she kept her commitment to the band and I don't recall her complaining about not being able to tour for 24 Karat Gold until 2 years later. But I agree with you, I could also see Stevie using that same standard with Lindsey. Right or wrong, at least no one can say she was asking for special treatment back then, and then refusing to give him the same treatment now.

Oh, but someone will. We fans are as petty as the band. ;)

Quite honestly, with my advancing age I'm just glad that I remembered the details of the 24KG and OWTS dates!

[dreamsunwind]

I 100% agree that this was a business/scheduling conflict that just went really downhill due to clashing egos and decades of drama and pettiness.
However anyone who thinks that Mick and Stevie don't call 90% of the shots here are deluded. Stevie is the big cash cow for the band. Almost all casual fans associate FM primarily with Stevie Nicks. Mick will ALWAYS bend over backwards to appease her and keep her touring with them because she brings in the big bucks. And as for Mick, the band is literally his name. Even if Stevie has the monetary power, it's HIS band.

It's not hard for me to believe that they led the vote against Lindsey and John voted with Mick because of their age old union. Chris probably IS in the middle on this. Besides, Elle's post seems to confirm almost exactly what happened.

[button-lip]

I 100% agree that this was a business/scheduling conflict that just went really downhill due to clashing egos and decades of drama and pettiness.
However anyone who thinks that Mick and Stevie don't call 90% of the shots here are deluded. Stevie is the big cash cow for the band. Almost all casual fans associate FM primarily with Stevie Nicks. Mick will ALWAYS bend over backwards to appease her and keep her touring with them because she brings in the big bucks. And as for Mick, the band is literally his name. Even if Stevie has the monetary power, it's HIS band.

It's not hard for me to believe that they led the vote against Lindsey and John voted with Mick because of their age old union. Chris probably IS in the middle on this. Besides, Elle's post seems to confirm almost exactly what happened.

For many, Stevie is so powerful she's the reason FM fills arenas, and she also can do it on her solo tours. But when it comes to calling the shots, she's not more important or powerful than the rest of her band members. :laugh::laugh:

How voting went is clear for everyone who wants to see it. I'm dubious about Christine.

[rhiannondontgo]

That would suggest after he was fired he went back to them and said 'Fine, I wont do the solo tour, I'll just do Fleetwood Mac shows'.
Surely if that's the case then they should have said 'Cool, lets go'.
Instead they refused.

Actually I think you’re onto something. I could definitely see this being the situation.
Lindsey signs on for an FM tour in the fall after releasing the planned solo record and promoting it on tour in Spring. Label pushes back the solo record which causes both of his planned tours to take place at the same time. He asks FM to either delay their tour or allow him to go out for solo shows concurrently. They say no. Some seriously fighting goes on. Maybe he says that’s the only way he can do it. Either he threatens to not do the tour unless they work with him here or they tell him he’s booted for being difficult in the first place. They then have their plans all screwed up and a contractually obligated tour fast approaching and are scrambling to figure out a solution or replacement. He realizes they’re going on tour with or without him, comes back and says “I give in, i’ll just do the FM tour only” but Stevie’s still pissed off and sick of it all so she says “nope, not letting him back”. And the rest of the band follows suit because they see her as a 5 foot tall sack of money.

[FuzzyPlum]

And the rest of the band follows suit because they see her as a 5 foot tall sack of money.

Love this line. Very true. He He He



https://www.wpclipart.com/money/money_bags/walking_away_with_sack_of_cash.png

...Intense silence as she walked in the room

[iamnotafraid]

https://www.wpclipart.com/money/money_bags/walking_away_with_sack_of_cash.png

...Intense silence as she walked in the room


I've never seen that picture of Stevie before.
Where'd you find it?

[FuzzyPlum]

I've never seen that picture of Stevie before.
Where'd you find it?


I took it from Mick Fleetwood's Twitter. It might have been taken at the Classic West show, I'm not sure.

[rhiannondontgo]

Love this line. Very true. He He He



https://www.wpclipart.com/money/money_bags/walking_away_with_sack_of_cash.png

...Intense silence as she walked in the room

I actually stole it lol. My friend works for a singer that was on a tv show & was a huge pain in the a** throughout the whole run. He’s always telling me stories about the insane sh*t her coworkers had to do to pacify her & when I asked why they didn’t just throw her off, he said “ratings. she’s a 5 foot tall sack of money so they do whatever she wants”. I’ve used it to describe Stevie’s role in FM ever since. :laugh:

[iamnotafraid]

Cool.

I hardly recognized her without her shawls.

[sands of time]

As ridiculous as this whole thing is, and as devastated as I am, I realized today that maybe this is actually a fitting way for the band to come to an end. For over 40 years, FM has been fueled by the conflict of Lindsey striving to be an artist vs. the others striving to be wise business people. Maybe this ending is more poignant than a final tour where everyone gets along and celebrates their career.

[sodascouts]

As I said elsewhere, this doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand why they didn't just tell him that they wouldn't accommodate him, and that if he didn't like it, he could leave.

Why fire him just for asking?

Losing Lindsey will hurt their sales. It's a BAD business decision to fire him if he's willing to stay despite not getting his way.

There has to be more to it.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=sodascouts;1223096]As I said elsewhere, this doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand why they didn't just tell him that they wouldn't accommodate him, and that if he didn't like it, he could leave.

Why fire him just for asking?

Losing Lindsey will hurt their sales. It's a BAD business decision to fire him if he's willing to stay despite not getting his way.

There has to be more to it.[/QUOTE

Agreed there has to be more. It's so insulting, and 4 days in, it doesn't hurt any less. I actually cannot listen to their music. Am so disgusted with them all. All 5 that is--they couldn't get it together.

[button-lip]

[QUOTE=sodascouts;1223096]As I said elsewhere, this doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand why they didn't just tell him that they wouldn't accommodate him, and that if he didn't like it, he could leave.

Why fire him just for asking?

Losing Lindsey will hurt their sales. It's a BAD business decision to fire him if he's willing to stay despite not getting his way.

There has to be more to it.[/QUOTE

Agreed there has to be more. It's so insulting, and 4 days in, it doesn't hurt any less. I actually cannot listen to their music. Am so disgusted with them all. All 5 that is--they couldn't get it together.

Why are you disgusted by Lindsey? What did he do? When they still didn’t want to give him his solo tours dates between FM tour dates, he finally postponed his solo tour and they fired him anyway.

[HomerMcvie]

Old Money Bag indeed...
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpspnejxwpv.jpg (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/dBsound/media/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpspnejxwpv.jpg.html)

[jmn3]

Old Money Bag indeed...
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpscwqbpg5t.jpg (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/dBsound/media/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpscwqbpg5t.jpg.html)


Omg.... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[HomerMcvie]

Omg.... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n300/dBsound/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpspnejxwpv.jpg (http://s115.photobucket.com/user/dBsound/media/fmLOLStevieBagCash%20copy_zpspnejxwpv.jpg.html)
I know!!!! I've been laughing for 30 minutes!

[jkmaletic]

As I said elsewhere, this doesn't make sense to me.

I don't understand why they didn't just tell him that they wouldn't accommodate him, and that if he didn't like it, he could leave.

Why fire him just for asking?

Losing Lindsey will hurt their sales. It's a BAD business decision to fire him if he's willing to stay despite not getting his way.

There has to be more to it.

Where did you get the impression that they simply fired him for just asking?

[sodascouts]

Where did you get the impression that they simply fired him for just asking?

From the scenario that was posted, I got the impression that they felt he was asking for too much. They found his request unreasonable. They fired him.

ETA: It's like if you go to your boss and you say, "I'm really valuable to this organization and I deserve a considerable raise." Maybe it was presumptuous of you to ask, but typically, you'd expect the boss to either say "Yes" or "No." What you wouldn't expect is for the boss to say "You're fired!" If he/she does, then you were fired for asking, weren't you?

However, as I said in my post. I believe there's more to it than that in this case.

[jkmaletic]

From what was posted, I got the impression that in this scenario, they felt he was asking for too much. They found his request unreasonable. They fired him.

ETA: It's like if you go to your boss and you say, "I'm really valuable to this organization and I deserve a considerable raise." Maybe it was presumptuous of you to ask, but typically, you'd expect the boss to either say "Yes" or "No." What you wouldn't expect is for the boss to say "You're fired!" If he/she does, then you were fired for asking, weren't you?

However, as I said in my post. I believe there's more to it than that in this case.

Maybe, the "more to it" in this case would be Lindsey asked, they said no. Lindsey then insisted, putting his foot down, believing they would pretty much HAVE to go along with his request, they still said no. Both sides stood their ground which led to the unfortunate firing.

Jamie

[pattyfan]

I guess I don't totally understand the situation, because it seems to me that if it was purely a business decision, it would have been much better not to fire him. Now they are risking selling far fewer tickets at shows. I think if they did a tour and LB did solo shows on off days, it would have little or no impact on ticket sales for Mac shows. I think that a vast, vast majority of people would either go to both shows or only the Mac show in their area, whereas with the new lineup, far more people will just stay away from the Mac show. So it being a business decision makes no sense to me.

The other thing I'll add is that I'm seriously astounded that money could even come into this. If any of them are not already set for life, then it just speaks to horrible greed and a complete and utter lack of ability to live within an extraordinarily huge means. Very sad.

Kevin

[TrueFaith77]

I’d rather they all had broken up. Lindsey and Stevie could focus on their solo careers which have only reached new heights of artistry. Christine could have worked with Lindsey again or recorded Blues albums with Mick in Hawaii u til they die.Now they are just bastardizing their legacy. Except Lindsey who will marshal this into creativity, I pray.

[BLY]

I’d rather they all had broken up. Lindsey and Stevie could focus on their solo careers which have only reached new heights of artistry. Christine could have worked with Lindsey again or recorded Blues albums with Mick in Hawaii u til they die.Now they are just bastardizing their legacy. Except Lindsey who will marshal this into creativity, I pray.


I'm with you on this. I have been a fan since 1976 and loved all versions of the band. I'm a huge Petty and Crowded House fan but this is just wrong on many fronts. The last tour would have been a great end with the return of Christine.

[jkmaletic]

I'm with you on this. I have been a fan since 1976 and loved all versions of the band. I'm a huge Petty and Crowded House fan but this is just wrong on many fronts. The last tour would have been a great end with the return of Christine.

A great end? Maybe. People here would still find things to complain about, i.e. the same 'ol set list.

[Lola]

I guess I don't totally understand the situation, because it seems to me that if it was purely a business decision, it would have been much better not to fire him. Now they are risking selling far fewer tickets at shows. I think if they did a tour and LB did solo shows on off days, it would have little or no impact on ticket sales for Mac shows. I think that a vast, vast majority of people would either go to both shows or only the Mac show in their area, whereas with the new lineup, far more people will just stay away from the Mac show. So it being a business decision makes no sense to me.

The other thing I'll add is that I'm seriously astounded that money could even come into this. If any of them are not already set for life, then it just speaks to horrible greed and a complete and utter lack of ability to live within an extraordinary huge means. Very sad.

Kevin

I agree with everything you said about fans going to both or just the Mac shows. I would have gone to both. I would have been dead broke but by God I would have gone to as many shows I could have. What does a firing accomplish r/t ticket sales? Ok, some Mike Campbell fans will check out a show or two. Is Neil Finn a big draw--I don't know but my guess is no(could be wrong).

Assess the competing narratives: 'FM w/Mike and Neil minus LB' versus 'See the classic Rumors line up one last time". Is this even a question?? Even the majority of folks who saw FM last time around would go again cause this presumably is the last tour. Some fans sat it out last tour thinking they would tour one more time---those people would definitely buy tickets for the 5. Some of them will still go to the shows cause they figure this is the last chance but those #'s will be smaller I think.

I wonder if Mick will do meet + greets. Will the fans be instructed that he will not be answering any questions about Lindsey. Maybe his lawyers will advise against him doing meets.

[FuzzyPlum]

I would have gone as there was some discussion of them digging out deep cuts/older songs. That would have freshened up the setlist.
I'm not sure to what extent they'll be able to do that now. They need to keep it as identifiable as Fleetwood Mac for casual fans as possible so Chris and Stevie will most likely stick with their must do's.

Regarding the double tour- it may have generated additional publicity so it could have benefited both Lindsey and FM in terms of ticket sales.

[Macfan4life]

Oh the pathetic irony:
Mick charges fans $400 to take a photo with him on tour
Lindsey wanted to charge fans $40 to play solo guitar in a tiny theater

[Lola]

Oh the pathetic irony:
Mick charges fans $400 to take a photo with him on tour
Lindsey wanted to charge fans $40 to play solo guitar in a tiny theater

Exactly this!!

[gldstwmn]

And not for nothing (and again I may be foggy on the specifics, so I beg forgiveness if I'm wrong), but didn't Stevie hold off on touring in support of 24 Karat Gold because of an FM tour?
She postponed a fully booked tour. The dates hadn't been announced yet.

[Lola]

I would have gone as there was some discussion of them digging out deep cuts/older songs. That would have freshened up the setlist.
I'm not sure to what extent they'll be able to do that now. They need to keep it as identifiable as Fleetwood Mac for casual fans as possible so Chris and Stevie will most likely stick with their must do's.

Regarding the double tour- it may have generated additional publicity so it could have benefited both Lindsey and FM in terms of ticket sales.

I saw something in an article earlier today about how the older albums are now available for streaming or purchase online. It was like one sentence buried in an article. I'll try to find it...I don't use pandora, etc so I'm not familiar with the content that was available or wasn't available.

[gldstwmn]

Maybe, the "more to it" in this case would be Lindsey asked, they said no. Lindsey then insisted, putting his foot down, believing they would pretty much HAVE to go along with his request, they still said no. Both sides stood their ground which led to the unfortunate firing.

Jamie

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! :nod:

[gldstwmn]

I agree with everything you said about fans going to both or just the Mac shows. I would have gone to both. I would have been dead broke but by God I would have gone to as many shows I could have. What does a firing accomplish r/t ticket sales? Ok, some Mike Campbell fans will check out a show or two.

The Petty fans will come out for Mike. The tour will sell just fine.

[NotonRodeo]

It just speaks to horrible greed and a complete and utter lack of ability to live within an extraordinarily huge means. Very sad.



The perfect description of Mick Fleetwood :D

[Lola]

The Petty fans will come out for Mike. The tour will sell just fine.


Of course, I just think the prospect of the Rumours 5 would result in the most ticket sales.

I don't know what happened (basically what I read here). I've been thinking more about what you've posted--let me see if I've got it right.
It could have been LB who wouldn't budge on his solo tour (after Stevie postponed 24K Gold tour due to Chris returning). Then they or LB discussed a concurrent tour as an alternative to delaying FM tour. When that didn't work he was fired so that he can do solo tour and FM can do their tour.

Sorry to be so thick headed here but at times I need someone to spell it out for me step by step.

[bombaysaffires]

The perfect description of Mick Fleetwood :D

As a man with 4 daughters, (and don't one or both of his older daughters now have kids? is he a grandfather?) two of whom are still rather young, you'd think he'd want to be so invested in making sure they are taken care of and he can leave them at least something.....:shrug:

not to mention if he lives as long as his mother did, he'll need to support himself. who knows how long he can actually play if he lives to his 90s or more. I guess he could take photos with the tourists for a fee if nothing else.

His restaurant seems to be really the only business venture that he's had that's doing reasonably well. Maybe because he has business partners managing it day to day. But we don't know; one day he could come out with a story of how they defrauded him whilst his attention was elsewhere :shrug:


Someone said Stevie has no dependents. Not true. She may not have children, but she supports many people-- first off family... you know she supports her brother and her niece and others. She also has employees-- she runs Stevie Nicks, Inc. Backup singers, housekeepers, accountants, lawyers, investment managers, property managers, Karen's been on her payroll for 26+ years, property upkeep, doctors, voice coaches, costume designers, etc etc etc. She has bills to pay that are probably far higher than the others.:shrug:

ETA: Lindsey's expenses must be ENORMOUS. His family, kids education, kids and wife's horses, wife is building gigantic horse farm, etc.... he has to be thinking of some economizing with all the money from a Mac tour no longer on the cards....no matter how smartly he's invested all these years. Losing FM tour money is huge.

[dreamsunwind]

Maybe, the "more to it" in this case would be Lindsey asked, they said no. Lindsey then insisted, putting his foot down, believing they would pretty much HAVE to go along with his request, they still said no. Both sides stood their ground which led to the unfortunate firing.

Jamie

Lindsey probably did put his foot down because he wanted to do his solo dates. But according to the Tom Petty photographer (who I at first doubted somewhat, but after the announcement looks like he was mostly right), Stevie then got fed up with his 'arrogance' and his requests that she told Mick "it's him or me".

While we can't know the exact truth this seems like the likely story. They both stood their ground and it got ugly. But it should not have ended like this, they should've done whatever it took to make it work.

[Ench]

I suspect that, at this time of their lives, that they didn't want their last ever tour to be an absolute nightmare. It may be less important what they were arguing about, and more important that they were arguing.

As people have been saying, the Stevie/Lindsey schtick is fake as fake can be. Perhaps she just didn't want to do it any more.

A FM tour without Lindsey is clearly a lesser thing than a tour without him. But, perhaps the other members (or enough of them) decided they'd prefer that to having to put up with the tour being a misery. Which more and more I'm getting the impression that it might have been.

[sodascouts]

Maybe Mick looked over at how well the Eagles were selling without Glenn Frey and thought "I bet we can sell just as many tickets without Lindsey Buckingham as long as we have Stevie Nicks."

It's a galling thought to anyone who appreciates Lindsey Buckingham, but otherwise, I can't see how breaking up the Rumours lineup could be considered a GOOD business decision.

[Lola]

Maybe Mick looked over at how well the Eagles were selling without Glenn Frey and thought "I bet we can sell just as many tickets without Lindsey Buckingham as long as we have Stevie Nicks."

It's a galling thought to anyone who appreciates Lindsey Buckingham, but otherwise, I can't see how breaking up the Rumours lineup could be considered a GOOD business decision.

I can see this. Chris is back, Stevie is still considered the main draw. They get Mike Campbell who is kind of "related" to FM via Stevie's relationship with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. They add Neil Finn and give it a go. If Lindsey really held his ground/whatever Mick figures this is an "easier" way to go?

[button-lip]

Lindsey probably did put his foot down because he wanted to do his solo dates. But according to the Tom Petty photographer (who I at first doubted somewhat, but after the announcement looks like he was mostly right), Stevie then got fed up with his 'arrogance' and his requests that she told Mick "it's him or me".

While we can't know the exact truth this seems like the likely story. They both stood their ground and it got ugly. But it should not have ended like this, they should've done whatever it took to make it work.

And we have another winner! Except that you're not posting what you think Lindsey did.
What people need to know is that Lindsey was ready to postpone his solo tour once he realized he couldn't convince Mick. But decisions were already made because Stevie wanted him out.
And Mike was already approached by them even before Lindsey knew he was being fired.

[elle]

And we have another winner! Except that you're not posting what you think Lindsey did.
What people need to know is that Lindsey was ready to postpone his solo tour once he realized he couldn't convince Mick. But decisions were already made because Stevie wanted him out.
And Mike was already approached by them even before Lindsey knew he was being fired.
man i missed a lot! i've never heard this piece of the story. do we know this, or it's just someone speculation?

what i also find bizarre is people claiming how it's obvious that LB not giving his normal 200% at the Classics but instead just regular 110% is what gives FM every right to get rid of him as a bad employee.:rolleyes: how can anyone say this with a straight face? have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows, making it clear she could care less about FM. her solo fans say she's a completely different person, engaged and happy on her solo outings. so why was she not fired anytime between 2009 and now for not giving it a 100%? :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

man i missed a lot! i've never heard this piece of the story. do we know this, or it's just someone speculation?

what i also find bizarre is people claiming how it's obvious that LB not giving his normal 200% at the Classics but instead just regular 110% is what gives FM every right to get rid of him as a bad employee.:rolleyes: how can anyone say this with a straight face? have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows, making it clear she could care less about FM. her solo fans say she's a completely different person, engaged and happy on her solo outings. so why was she not fired anytime between 2009 and now for not giving it a 100%? :shrug:

ummm because of $$$

[iamnotafraid]

...have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows...

She's been doing that for so long.
If one were critical, you could date
that back to everything that came
after the Mirage Tour.

Unless you're wearing blinders it's
easy to see. I know because I wore
them for a long time.

[jkmaletic]

man i missed a lot! i've never heard this piece of the story. do we know this, or it's just someone speculation?

what i also find bizarre is people claiming how it's obvious that LB not giving his normal 200% at the Classics but instead just regular 110% is what gives FM every right to get rid of him as a bad employee.:rolleyes: how can anyone say this with a straight face? have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows, making it clear she could care less about FM. her solo fans say she's a completely different person, engaged and happy on her solo outings. so why was she not fired anytime between 2009 and now for not giving it a 100%? :shrug:

I would have actually preferred they fire Stevie at this point. It would've been much easier all around, and I don't think there would be nearly the amount of backlash that there is for Lindsey. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of Stevie's fans would be like, well- that's unfortunate, but oh well! Solo tour time!!

As far some saying Lindsey was willing to compromise and yet they still fired him? - that has to be complete garbage. That would just be outright insanity. The likely scenario from what I've read is both sides put their feet down resulting in the firing.

Some are also saying Lindsey was fired for not giving his best when performing? - That's complete garbage too. That guy has always given his all, and FM knows that.

Jamie

[Storms123]

Some are also saying Lindsey was fired for not giving his best when performing? - That's complete garbage too. That guy has always given his all, and FM knows that.

Jamie[/QUOTE]

And Mick even says so himself when he does his "band intros" and introduces Lindsey. He's (Lindsey) the only one who never leaves the stage for 3 hours!! There is so much speculation back and forth. I hope against all hope that the ultimatum and nastiness isn't what went down. Aside from the legacy of the band, it's just an awful narrative as a human being. I have to wonder how long it takes for Stevie's "mentionitis" to kick in. Could make for some awkward moments? While this tour won't fail, I am doubtful it will be as successful as "OWTS" was. I hope they can recover from this and give the fans and themselves one last final outing.

[Lola]

I found this on one of the Stevie tumblr blogs:



I have connections, and make no mistake that the ONLY part Stevie played in Lindsey's firing, is that she is not available to tour later next year. She has solo commitments for after this already-planned Mac tour, only for him to decide he wanted to postpone. So FM had to choose between touring now without Lindsey, or touring next year without Stevie. Alas, fans need a bad guy and they've decided Stevie's it.

Asked by Anonymous
Sure, but it also has a lot to do with the the recent past: Stevie refusing to record a new album with FM and instead wanting to tour with an older album of hers, many people were pissed about that, and it’s not hard to imagine that this was also part of the build up that led to Lindsey’s departure.

[elle]

I found this on one of the Stevie tumblr blogs:



I have connections, and make no mistake that the ONLY part Stevie played in Lindsey's firing, is that she is not available to tour later next year. S

it will be interesting to see the tour dates when they come out next week. i've heard that they will start with just a few dates to test the water, since they didn't expect all the backlash. but who knows, maybe they announce the whole tour. if the tour goes into late this year, this speculation will immediately be proven obsolete.

[button-lip]

I suspect that, at this time of their lives, that they didn't want their last ever tour to be an absolute nightmare. It may be less important what they were arguing about, and more important that they were arguing.

As people have been saying, the Stevie/Lindsey schtick is fake as fake can be. Perhaps she just didn't want to do it any more.

A FM tour without Lindsey is clearly a lesser thing than a tour without him. But, perhaps the other members (or enough of them) decided they'd prefer that to having to put up with the tour being a misery. Which more and more I'm getting the impression that it might have been.

I agree but that doesn't give them the right to fire him and leave many people without a job in the process. That's petty, arrogant and tacky.

Come on, it can't be that bad! Stevie is also a "me, me, me" person and I'm sure they also have to deal with her whimps, but no one ever cross the line and try to go on without her.

[button-lip]

Maybe Mick looked over at how well the Eagles were selling without Glenn Frey and thought "I bet we can sell just as many tickets without Lindsey Buckingham as long as we have Stevie Nicks."

It's a galling thought to anyone who appreciates Lindsey Buckingham, but otherwise, I can't see how breaking up the Rumours lineup could be considered a GOOD business decision.

Eagles are selling 60% of the arenas capacity, and Glenn Frey is dead. They must have thought fans reactions wouldn't be the same because Lindsey is pretty much alive. :woohoo:

[bombaysaffires]

I found this on one of the Stevie tumblr blogs:



I have connections, and make no mistake that the ONLY part Stevie played in Lindsey's firing, is that she is not available to tour later next year. She has solo commitments for after this already-planned Mac tour, only for him to decide he wanted to postpone. So FM had to choose between touring now without Lindsey, or touring next year without Stevie. Alas, fans need a bad guy and they've decided Stevie's it.

Asked by Anonymous
Sure, but it also has a lot to do with the the recent past: Stevie refusing to record a new album with FM and instead wanting to tour with an older album of hers, many people were pissed about that, and it’s not hard to imagine that this was also part of the build up that led to Lindsey’s departure.



this puts a more realistic context around the reports that Mick/the band mgmt had polled promoters to see which configuration of the band would sell more tickets (and then use that as their decision tool :distress:)

The essence of the rumour is true but there was no context around it. Context matters.

Still doesn't change what I think of the outcome, but it shows better how the pieces fell into place.

So with this info I can see them debating back and forth about dates, and Stevie / her camp saying "look, we already have dates booked / planned for next year, so I will not be available for any Mac dates then" and then I can absolutely see them throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "so decide if you want him or me". This would be very very very in line with the tactic she / they used during SYW negotiations about the album being single or double album... she threatened, "if you make it a double album I will not tour beyond the 40 dates we've already booked". It reinforces that of course they know she's a major draw for the audience (and they clearly believe she is the MAIN draw) and will throw out that card whenever it suits their agenda... "well fine, do what you want, but if you do Stevie will take her ball and go home". They know this will scare the pants off Mick...and....she gets her way.

They can couch it as just giving the band the facts and letting the band decide as much as they want, but it was clearly intended and taken as an ultimatum.

[gldstwmn]

Of course, I just think the prospect of the Rumours 5 would result in the most ticket sales.

I don't know what happened (basically what I read here). I've been thinking more about what you've posted--let me see if I've got it right.
It could have been LB who wouldn't budge on his solo tour (after Stevie postponed 24K Gold tour due to Chris returning). Then they or LB discussed a concurrent tour as an alternative to delaying FM tour. When that didn't work he was fired so that he can do solo tour and FM can do their tour.

Sorry to be so thick headed here but at times I need someone to spell it out for me step by step.

Yes. That's what I was so trying to say. :lol:

[Ench]

I agree but that doesn't give them the right to fire him and leave many people without a job in the process. That's petty, arrogant and tacky.

Come on, it can't be that bad! Stevie is also a "me, me, me" person and I'm sure they also have to deal with her whimps, but no one ever cross the line and try to go on without her.

They do have the right to fire him, if they don't want to work with him any more.

I would hope that they would do right by anyone who lost out in the tour. However, we don't know exactly what happened and whose fault it was. Perhaps we should wait to find out more about the split, if we ever do.

Otherwise it's easy to blame the band members we don't like, and absolve the band members that we do like.

I'm more of a Lindsey fan than a fan of any other member of that band. That doesn't mean that I jump to the conclusion that Lindsey is in the right and Mick and Stevie in the wrong.

[button-lip]

man i missed a lot! i've never heard this piece of the story. do we know this, or it's just someone speculation?

what i also find bizarre is people claiming how it's obvious that LB not giving his normal 200% at the Classics but instead just regular 110% is what gives FM every right to get rid of him as a bad employee.:rolleyes: how can anyone say this with a straight face? have you all seen the last 4 FM tours? if you haven't seen tours than read the reviews? more often than not, Stevie was practically a zombie sleepwalking through FM shows, making it clear she could care less about FM. her solo fans say she's a completely different person, engaged and happy on her solo outings. so why was she not fired anytime between 2009 and now for not giving it a 100%? :shrug:

No, it's true. It was confirmed to me by someone who was "around" a couple of the band meetings. The same person who told me Mike Campbell was approached by Mick/Stevie even before Lindsey was fired.

If Lindsey wasn't engaged in his work at the Classic East then why was he so mad with some tech during GYOW because of some sound problem? Does it sound like a person who wasn't commited with his work? Then we should all be fired from our jobs! :lol:

[TrueFaith77]

this puts a more realistic context around the reports that Mick/the band mgmt had polled promoters to see which configuration of the band would sell more tickets (and then use that as their decision tool :distress:)

The essence of the rumour is true but there was no context around it. Context matters.

Still doesn't change what I think of the outcome, but it shows better how the pieces fell into place.

So with this info I can see them debating back and forth about dates, and Stevie / her camp saying "look, we already have dates booked / planned for next year, so I will not be available for any Mac dates then" and then I can absolutely see them throwing down the gauntlet and saying, "so decide if you want him or me". This would be very very very in line with the tactic she / they used during SYW negotiations about the album being single or double album... she threatened, "if you make it a double album I will not tour beyond the 40 dates we've already booked". It reinforces that of course they know she's a major draw for the audience (and they clearly believe she is the MAIN draw) and will throw out that card whenever it suits their agenda... "well fine, do what you want, but if you do Stevie will take her ball and go home". They know this will scare the pants off Mick...and....she gets her way.

They can couch it as just giving the band the facts and letting the band decide as much as they want, but it was clearly intended and taken as an ultimatum.


Oh yes I have been thinking of this as well. As she said in DR: “This is not about art.” Yet Lindsey caved. The art-commerce struggle exists strongly within him (he even writes songs about it). I have more to say but am getting upset lol

[button-lip]

They do have the right to fire him, if they don't want to work with him any more.

I would hope that they would do right by anyone who lost out in the tour. However, we don't know exactly what happened and whose fault it was. Perhaps we should wait to find out more about the split, if we ever do.

Otherwise it's easy to blame the band members we don't like, and absolve the band members that we do like.

I'm more of a Lindsey fan than a fan of any other member of that band. That doesn't mean that I jump to the conclusion that Lindsey is in the right and Mick and Stevie in the wrong.

Do you think at this point we're "jumping into conclusions"? Many people connected to the band and to the Heartbreakers have already spoken.

And yes, they can fire him and he could also sue if he had already signed on the dotted line for this upcoming tour.

[gldstwmn]

it will be interesting to see the tour dates when they come out next week. i've heard that they will start with just a few dates to test the water, since they didn't expect all the backlash. but who knows, maybe they announce the whole tour. if the tour goes into late this year, this speculation will immediately be proven obsolete.

It's a fully booked tour.

[elle]

talking about business decisions........ very interesting opinion. you need to listen to the end. it is a conspiracy theory kind of rant, but the underlying corporate greed / squeeze the money while you still can from these dinosaur bands every which way you can claim is certainly something to ponder. especially if the rumors that Azoff is not LB's manager anymore are true. :shrug:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-B87yPmRy1s" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[elle]

It's a fully booked tour.

yes, it is. it has been since january. that doesn't mean they'll release all the dates on 4/23.

[julesmck]

I found this on one of the Stevie tumblr blogs:

I have connections, and make no mistake that the ONLY part Stevie played in Lindsey's firing, is that she is not available to tour later next year. She has solo commitments for after this already-planned Mac tour, only for him to decide he wanted to postpone. So FM had to choose between touring now without Lindsey, or touring next year without Stevie. Alas, fans need a bad guy and they've decided Stevie's it.

But didn't Lindsey supposedly offer to scrap his solo dates when they told him he couldn't do both tours? Why would they still insist on kicking him out if he was willing to compromise?

[button-lip]

But didn't Lindsey supposedly offer to scrap his solo dates when they told him he couldn't do both tours? Why would they still insist on kicking him out if he was willing to compromise?

Because decisions were already made and Mike Campbell was already approached. "Him or me".

[elle]

No, it's true. It was confirmed to me by someone who was "around" a couple of the band meetings. The same person who told me Mike Campbell was approached by Mick/Stevie even before Lindsey was fired.

If Lindsey wasn't engaged in his work at the Classic East then why was he so mad with some tech during GYOW because of some sound problem? Does it sound like a person who wasn't commited with his work? Then we should all be fired from our jobs! :lol:

ah interesting.

re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?

[sodascouts]

Eagles are selling 60% of the arenas capacity
Really? I hadn't heard that. I have not gone to any shows without Glenn because i think the "Eagles" are not legitimate now.

That certainly doesn't bode well for Fleetwood Mac.

[sodascouts]

ah interesting.

re Classic East, that whole narrative actually fits nicely into Azoff / corporate greed conspiracy theory - LB was undermining the Classic gigs put together by Azoff with his public statements that he's at this point just accepting Mac gigs for what they are - cashgrabs - and going through the motions ("just close your eyes, play the set, and take the money"). that couldn't have sit well with Azoff.

so it's not that Lindsey is not giving it well over 100% at the Mac gigs. it's that he didn't shy away from saying they are basically uninspired cashgrabs. so you could see Azoff wanting to 1) get him in line or get rid of him, and 2) making sure that FM doesn't do yet another exact same GH tour as the last 3 ones. yes the 2014-15 one was their most successful ever probably, but there was no new narrative for the upcoming tour (like rumours 5 re-united!). having LB solo with new music and creativity going in parallel would further undermine yet another GH tour, in the year when every boomer band is doing hugely expensive farewell tours. there needed to be either a shakeup or get LB in line! so pair this with SN and LB always fighting, and SN probably always pulling similar him or me threats, and now you do have a perfect storm! so maybe, Jamie and this youtube vinyl guy are right about it all being pure corporate greed, business based decision?

In the latest press release, Azoff is not listed as Fleetwood Mac's manager. Unless that was a mistake, he's been fired too (or he dropped them).

Or has there been an amendment to that release?

[HomerMcvie]

Really? I hadn't heard that. I have not gone to any shows without Glenn because i think the "Eagles" are not legitimate now.

That certainly doesn't bode well for Fleetwood Mac.

I saw the Eagles for two consecutive nights, a couple weeks ago. The first night, I got(at the last minute) the cheapest seat they had, looking directly at the back side of their right ears. There was still a big screen, and the audio was perfect, so it was fine...

The second night, I decided I'd upgrade a bit... but NO cheap seats left. Box office lady, "we've got tons of $250 seats, but NO cheaper seats". I said, "I don't WANT a $250 seat!" She said, "no one does, that's why all the cheap seats are gone. Everyone would rather sit behind them, than pay $250 for a semi crappy seat!"

[jkmaletic]

Carol Ann Harris' thoughts on this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhnctNhhQnk/

[ryan4136]

Carol Ann Harris' thoughts on this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BhnctNhhQnk/

What a rambling mess, that never got around to saying anything.

[lovethemac1]

But didn't Lindsey supposedly offer to scrap his solo dates when they told him he couldn't do both tours? Why would they still insist on kicking him out if he was willing to compromise?

I agree. It’s hard for Lindsey to have any say (or any hope) when they had already gone behind his back and approached MC in January. He abviously didn’t know what they had been doing.

They had to have had this is the works, otherwise they would have jumped at the chance to keep him and not affect ticket sales.

[Tango]

For those that are unable to see the instagram: (I added spaces as I can't read instagram easily myself)

fleetwoodmacfanclubFrom Carol Ann Harris’ Facebook page:

I guess it's time for me to say something as the posts on here are all over the place and placing blame on Fleetwood Mac as an entity for Lindsey no longer being in the band is wayyyyy too premature.

All I want to say to all of you is that the band meeting where the decision was made that he was no longer in the band was surely so ugly....so sad...so awful...that I, for one, am grateful that I wasn't a witness to it.

To place blame on Stevie, Mick, Christine or John is unwarranted and the fact that Lindsey hasn't made a statement AT all speaks volumes to me.

I can tell you that just from a business perspective, Lindsey being "fired" or leaving the band was NOT anyone's choice but a decision that the band made for reasons that will eventually become known as in this day and age - it's impossible to keep anything this big a secret for very long...

I truly feel sorry for all of the fans of Fleetwood Mac who will NOT get to see what is to me, the "real" band and I am not throwing shade on the two guitarists hired to replace him. They are brilliant musicians - but for a "Farewell" tour, (in my opinion) they are going to be up against it.

But my last word on this is that it's a very, very sad end to an era for Fleetwood Mac...but all of you have the music, have seen the tours - and in the end, that will always be yours to enjoy.
Love to you all - Carol Ann

[button-lip]

For those that are unable to see the instagram: (I added spaces as I can't read instagram easily myself)

fleetwoodmacfanclubFrom Carol Ann Harris’ Facebook page:

I guess it's time for me to say something as the posts on here are all over the place and placing blame on Fleetwood Mac as an entity for Lindsey no longer being in the band is wayyyyy too premature.

All I want to say to all of you is that the band meeting where the decision was made that he was no longer in the band was surely so ugly....so sad...so awful...that I, for one, am grateful that I wasn't a witness to it.

To place blame on Stevie, Mick, Christine or John is unwarranted and the fact that Lindsey hasn't made a statement AT all speaks volumes to me.

I can tell you that just from a business perspective, Lindsey being "fired" or leaving the band was NOT anyone's choice but a decision that the band made for reasons that will eventually become known as in this day and age - it's impossible to keep anything this big a secret for very long...

I truly feel sorry for all of the fans of Fleetwood Mac who will NOT get to see what is to me, the "real" band and I am not throwing shade on the two guitarists hired to replace him. They are brilliant musicians - but for a "Farewell" tour, (in my opinion) they are going to be up against it.

But my last word on this is that it's a very, very sad end to an era for Fleetwood Mac...but all of you have the music, have seen the tours - and in the end, that will always be yours to enjoy.
Love to you all - Carol Ann

So, for Carol Ann the real Fleetwood Mac is the band without Lindsey?! :shrug::shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

I think she's saying it's not a real band without LIndsey.

[FuzzyPlum]

To place blame on Stevie, Mick, Christine or John is unwarranted and the fact that Lindsey hasn't made a statement AT all speaks volumes to me.


For the most part I agree with her. I'm not sure what to make of this line though. I think she is implying its Lindsey's fault as evidenced by his lack of a response. I think it more likely he's trying to be the grown up and avoiding a tit-for-tat public sparring match. That and/or he's been advised to say nothing for legal reasons.
He has the right to remain silent.

[button-lip]

I think she's saying it's not a real band without LIndsey.

Yeah, now that I'm reading it with less anger... :lol::lol:

For the most part I agree with her. I'm not sure what to make of this line though. I think she is implying its Lindsey's fault as evidenced by his lack of a response. I think it more likely he's trying to be the grown up and avoiding a tit-for-tat public sparring match. That and/or he's been advised to say nothing for legal reasons.
He has the right to remain silent.

I don't get it: the band has nothing to do with the decision, but they made the decision nevertheless. It's been a slow morning for me or I am missing something here. :shrug:

[jeets2000]

No offense to Carol Ann Harris, but, given the fact that most of her interactions with the band ended in the 1980s, I feel like she has about as much insight on this matter as I do. :sorry:

[Lola]

For those that are unable to see the instagram: (I added spaces as I can't read instagram easily myself)

fleetwoodmacfanclubFrom Carol Ann Harris’ Facebook page:

I guess it's time for me to say something as the posts on here are all over the place and placing blame on Fleetwood Mac as an entity for Lindsey no longer being in the band is wayyyyy too premature.

All I want to say to all of you is that the band meeting where the decision was made that he was no longer in the band was surely so ugly....so sad...so awful...that I, for one, am grateful that I wasn't a witness to it.

To place blame on Stevie, Mick, Christine or John is unwarranted and the fact that Lindsey hasn't made a statement AT all speaks volumes to me.

I can tell you that just from a business perspective, Lindsey being "fired" or leaving the band was NOT anyone's choice but a decision that the band made for reasons that will eventually become known as in this day and age - it's impossible to keep anything this big a secret for very long...

I truly feel sorry for all of the fans of Fleetwood Mac who will NOT get to see what is to me, the "real" band and I am not throwing shade on the two guitarists hired to replace him. They are brilliant musicians - but for a "Farewell" tour, (in my opinion) they are going to be up against it.

But my last word on this is that it's a very, very sad end to an era for Fleetwood Mac...but all of you have the music, have seen the tours - and in the end, that will always be yours to enjoy.
Love to you all - Carol Ann

Thanks for posting this. I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

Her statement boils down to "Lindsey being fired or leaving the band was not anyone's choice". stop. "but a decision that the band made for reasons that will eventually become known" stop.
Huh? Is she saying the band didn't want to fire him but was forced too? Did they have to scrap a member and they chose Lindsey? She sounds like an edict was handed down from on high and the band must obey.

[dreamsunwind]

No offense to Carol Ann Harris, but, given the fact that most of her interactions with the band ended in the 1980s, I feel like she has about as much insight on this matter as I do. :sorry:

Yup basically. She's just offering her take, I wouldn't look much deeper into it.

[paleshadow]

and yet, Stevie had no problem whatsoever with the Pretenders doing it.

it's interesting view to ponder, for sure, but doesn't make sense when you take into account Stevie's last year's tour with the Pretenders.


The reality is that in Fleetwood Mac, there are members that people go to specifically see. If you are there to see Lindsey, but he is touring independently (for much less per ticket, and at close by venues) you may forgo the full Fleetwood Mac ticket and just go see him. Same for Stevie and her fans. That type of set up would definitely have a financial impact on the band as a whole.

[FuzzyPlum]

The reality is that in Fleetwood Mac, there are members that people go to specifically see. If you are there to see Lindsey, but he is touring independently (for much less per ticket, and at close by venues) you may forgo the full Fleetwood Mac ticket and just go see him. Same for Stevie and her fans. That type of set up would definitely have a financial impact on the band as a whole.


Never been to a Lindsey Buckingham solo show but the way he jokes about it would suggest the number of fans that go to his shows wouldn't really make any dent in FM numbers. Plus most would go to both (avid LB fans will pay double to see him solo and with FM). Even if fans only go to LB concerts- so many shows last time around were sell outs. If a small number of fans don't buy tickets, then somebody else would buy them anyway.

[jkmaletic]

Never been to a Lindsey Buckingham solo show but the way he jokes about it would suggest the number of fans that go to his shows wouldn't really make any dent in FM numbers. Plus most would go to both (avid LB fans will pay double to see him solo and with FM). Even if fans only go to LB concerts- so many shows last time around were sell outs. If a small number of fans don't buy tickets, then somebody else would buy them anyway.

Let me first re-state that I am not a business person by any means.
But using common business sense, the band cannot allow Lindsey to do this (or any band member) based on an educated guess that he won't sell that many tickets. :shrug:

Jamie

[FuzzyPlum]

Let me first re-state that I am not a business person by any means.
But using common business sense, the band cannot allow Lindsey to do this (or any band member) based on an educated guess that he won't sell that many tickets. :shrug:

Jamie

I am by no means a business person either. Common sense however would suggest profits aren't going to be maximised by scheduling significant gaps between shows. Furthermore, the backlash they are facing and the impact this may have on ticket sales would suggest a degree of compromise would have been prudent from a business perspective.

[mylittledemon]

This may have been mentioned before (but I haven't seen it as I've quickly perused the responses)... but didn't the original press release say Lindsey wouldn't be joining them on this tour? It seems like maybe there's hope in the way it was worded. Perhaps his ousting was intended only for this tour, and they've left things open for him to rejoin at a later time? Someone help me out if I'm way wrong here. ;)

[Storms123]

This may have been mentioned before (but I haven't seen it as I've quickly perused the responses)... but didn't the original press release say Lindsey wouldn't be joining them on this tour? It seems like maybe there's hope in the way it was worded. Perhaps his ousting was intended only for this tour, and they've left things open for him to rejoin at a later time? Someone help me out if I'm way wrong here. ;)

I noticed that too, and hope there is some truth to it. My only concern is they haven’t come out to say that if it is the case. Given the backlash, which I assume is far more pervasive than they anticipated, I would think they would try to calm the tide a bit? Part of me still wonders if they don’t release all of the tour dates and assess how things progress.

[sodascouts]

The reality is that in Fleetwood Mac, there are members that people go to specifically see. If you are there to see Lindsey, but he is touring independently (for much less per ticket, and at close by venues) you may forgo the full Fleetwood Mac ticket and just go see him.

I don't think firing him will solve the problem of losing sales re: fans who were coming specifically to see Lindsey...

[mylittledemon]

Given the backlash, which I assume is far more pervasive than they anticipated, I would think they would try to calm the tide a bit?

If this is true, I'm fairly certain the PR team would've told the band that it's best to say nothing rather than potentially add fuel to the fire. They wouldn't want to reflect negatively on the new line up... so to say "yeah Lindsey will be back in a few years" might make this change seem short lived and pointless rather than exciting and fresh. (I mean, is it really anyways? lol)

[Storms123]

If this is true, I'm fairly certain the PR team would've told the band that it's best to say nothing rather than potentially add fuel to the fire. They wouldn't want to reflect negatively on the new line up... so to say "yeah Lindsey will be back in a few years" might make this change seem short lived and pointless rather than exciting and fresh. (I mean, is it really anyways? lol)

No idea if it’s true...part “wishful thinking” and part freshman year of college business class. I honestly don’t think they expected the backlash they’ve received. I think the silence on both parts could be “let’s assess this as it continues to unfold “ and keep your mouth shut in case there’s a lawsuit. I like to think Lindsey’s silences is my point 2 above, but also attempting to not be part of the rumor and innuendo. I think the bands silence is my point #2 and an attempt to assess the landscape before they remaining 4 need to do press for the tour. The temperature of the fans will likely guide their messaging. Just all my opinion though.

[StreetAngel86]

Eagles are selling 60% of the arenas capacity, and Glenn Frey is dead. They must have thought fans reactions wouldn't be the same because Lindsey is pretty much alive. :woohoo:

Maybe LB should join the Eagles
and fill up that remaining 40% :thumbsup:

i hope this tour line up tanks
and Stevie can go join the Heartbreakers as ppl have suggested :wavey:

and FM officially disbands and never utters a word ever again.

[mylittledemon]

No idea if it’s true...part “wishful thinking” and part freshman year of college business class. I honestly don’t think they expected the backlash they’ve received.

I wonder if they actually are genuinely worried about the backlash... I suppose ticket sales will be the only indicator to them that matters.

[Storms123]

I wonder if they actually are genuinely worried about the backlash... I suppose ticket sales will be the only indicator to them that matters.

The wallet rules the world :) If it's true the tour will officially be announced next week, we will soon find out. I am curious to see how they roll it out though--what markets, how broad, etc. IE do they avoid MSG and go to Barclays or Prudential for NY Area.... Situations like that.

[bombaysaffires]

"All I want to say to all of you is that the band meeting where the decision was made that he was no longer in the band was surely so ugly....so sad...so awful...that I, for one, am grateful that I wasn't a witness to it."

I think she's spot on with this.

[TrueFaith77]

"All I want to say to all of you is that the band meeting where the decision was made that he was no longer in the band was surely so ugly....so sad...so awful...that I, for one, am grateful that I wasn't a witness to it."

I think she's spot on with this.

One thing you can say for her is that while she was often self-deluded, she vividly captured personalities of the band members. They are a nasty bunch.

[Storms123]

One thing you can say for her is that while she was often self-deluded, she vividly captured personalities of the band members. They are a nasty bunch.

She's also a bit of a "hanger on" even after all this time..She probably sees this news as a few more books to sell

[Aussie W/Heart]

I think its pretty safe to assume Carrol Ann would still be in contact with most of the "insiders" such a Sara Fleetwood etc.. Not the band, but friends of the band.

This latest debacle, i imagine spread like wildfire within there tight little community, after the sh$t hit the fan :distress:

BTW, I am sad and sorry it has all ended this way.. LB's energy and interactions on the stage will be greatly missed..

[dreamsunwind]

I think its pretty safe to assume Carrol Ann would still be in contact with most of the "insiders" such a Sara Fleetwood etc.. Not the band, but friends of the band.

This latest debacle, i imagine spread like wildfire within there tight little community, after the sh$t hit the fan :distress:


I very highly doubt that she has been part of the band's circle at all since the 80s. She's probably still friends with Sara Fleetwood, but Sara herself is no longer part of that circle.

[Aussie W/Heart]

I very highly doubt that she has been part of the band's circle at all since the 80s. She's probably still friends with Sara Fleetwood, but Sara herself is no longer part of that circle.

Yes i agree, she has not been part of the bands circle in a very long time, but via the grapevine ... friends of friends :shrug:

That comment she posted on Instagram, IMHO was more than likely not just made up tho..