a difficult bugger?

[elle]

new (or at least recent) interview with Christine courtesy of fleetwoodmac-uk.com -

http://fleetwoodmac-uk.com/wp/christine-mcvie-interview-classic-rock-magazine/

CHRISTINE MCVIE INTERVIEW | CLASSIC ROCK MAGAZINE

Classic Rock Magazine (Issue 246)
By Gary Graff
4th Feb 2018

The in, out, in songwriting heart of Fleetwood Mac.

Five years ago in September, Christine McVie stepped on stage with Fleetwood Mac for the first time since 1997 and has been touring with them since. More importantly, she went into the studio with the guys in the band for sessions that resulted in last year’s lauded Buckingham McVie duo album with Mac’s Lindsey Buckingham. At 74, the former Christine Perfect is fully in, and it doesn’t sound like she has any plans to go her own way ever again.

Are you still glad that you rejoined Fleetwood Mac almost five years ago?
Oh yes. It’s fantastic. I love it.

In hindsight, do you regret the hiatus?
I quit the band only because I developed this horrendous fear of flying and was run down and tired of touring. I bought a home in England that was being restored. I wanted to move back closer to my family. It was not out of any lack of love for these guys. They’re my musical family.

What brought you back?
I realised that I made a huge mistake, that’s all. I started missing them and playing with them and the interaction, the chemistry of it all. I started to really, tray desire to star/ doing something again, and the only people that I would have any desire to do anything with would be Fleetwood Mac.

Your first step back was writing and recording again with Lindsey. You two clearly have a unique emulation. What is it draw out of each other?
It’s a hard thing to analyse, really. I suppose it’s just a musical rapport Is very easy to work with him_ Although I know people say he can be a difficult bugger, I’ve always found him to be a terrific fellow to work with. I enjoy it.

There are some who would say, with all deference to Stevie Nicks, that it’s the product of your collaboration that is the real sound of Fleetwood Mac.
Lindsey just loves producing other people’s songs. He always has. I think with me he tends to lean slightly towards a romantic side of him musically, I’m speaking – because he describes himself as the brains and me as the heart.

Was there any disappointment that the Buckingham McVie songs didn’t end up leading to a full Fleetwood Mac album?
No, I don’t think there was ever any particular agenda at that point. In the very opening days we didn’t know what we were doing. We didn’t know where it was going to go. Anything could happen. suppose it would’ve had to cross my mind at some point. It seems bizarre that Stevie [Nicks] is not on it, because the rest of the band are. But we decided that we wanted to pursue a duet project when we listened to everything back. And I’m really happy that we did because I like what it is. It’s dean-cut and defined very much as the two of us. Which I do like.

Fleetwood Mac will be touring in 2018 What are prospects for some new material from the band?
I certainly think it’s a good idea, I think it would be quite nice to cut a couple of new ones. We’ll have to wait and see. We’re planning to start rehearsing sometime in the spring.

Stevie Nicks was also interviewed in this edition of the magazine

The 2018 reissue of the Fleetwood Mac album is also reviewed in this edition of magazine

Products from Amazon.co.uk

[HomerMcvie]

Well, he's a perfectionist. When "you" think it's good enough, and are ready to move onto the next thing, he's not. He'll labor and labor on the same thing, until you're ready to break.

[elle]

Stevie's big machine-small machine interview from the same issue (also courtesy of fleetwoodmac-uk.com) -

http://fleetwoodmac-uk.com/wp/stevie-nicks-interview-classic-rock-magazine/

STEVIE NICKS INTERVIEW | CLASSIC ROCK MAGAZINE

Classic Rock Magazine (Issue 246)
By Gary Graff
4th Feb 2018

After going from small fry to big Mac, now she balances the band and a solo career.

Stevie Nicks may appear to have a complicated and ambivalent relationship with Fleetwood Mac, but you’d be bard-premed to find a greater public proponent for the band. Since 1981 the writer and singer of Rhiannon, Dreams, Sara and many more has juggled a successful solo career alongside being in the group and has sometimes frustrated her bandmates with her priorities. But Nicks still swears allegiance to the Mac and is always ready to add a new chapter to the saga – when it fits.

You maintain an active and successful solo career, as well as membership in Fleetwood Mac. What’s the agar of doing both?
Solo work and Fleetwood Mac is a really great thing to be able to go back and forth to. You can do your own thing until you get bored and then you can go to the other thing and do that until you start to get bored, and then you can go back to the other thing. It helps you stay more excited and uplifted for what you do so you’re not just doing one thing year after year.

It keeps it fresh, in other words.
Basically, what we are is entertainers. When we go on stage we’re performers. That’s what we do. Even if this band had never made it big, we’d be playing all the dubs. So it isn’t a question of keeping it fresh, it’s that were doing what we love and we don’t have anything else, basically, to do.

What’s the most difficult adjustment when you move between the two?
From the very beginning, when I was seventeen, I wanted to be in a band. When you’re in a band you’re a team. When I’m in solo work, I’m the boss. I have gone back and forth about it in my head. I’ve decided I do like being the boss, but I’ve been in Fleetwood Mac for so long I understand how to not be the boss and be part of a team and a team player and it’s okay. Part of it knocks your ego down, makes you humble. So there’s a lot of good things about being in a band.

Your solo commitments often seem to go on longer than they were initially expected to, which frustrates a lot of the band’s fans — and maybe your bandmates?
A big band like Fleetwood Mac needs to get out of the spotlight, so that’s what we done. We should always be off the road for three years, because when we come back it’s an event. I think that’s very important. There’s a lot of famous bands and a lot of important people out, and you’re going to make a choice of which ticket to buy, and if you haven’t seen one of them for three years or more then that’s going to be at the top of the list. It feels more special. And being away from each other for three years is good. It really sets you up for a good time because everything’s new and everybody’s got new stories and everybody’s been doing crazy, different things, so when you walk into rehearsal that first day everyone’s really happy to see each other. If we toured every other year it wouldn’t be like that.

With all the available material, how does the band put together a set-list?Everyone comes in with their big list of songs that they think we should try. We sit around a table with acoustic guitars and a little keyboard and we just start playing all the songs we might not always do, and some of the songs we maybe haven’t done for fifteen years. There’s about ten songs, the hit songs, that we have to do, and that leaves us ten more. So you start going through Tusk, going through Rumours, going through Fleetwood Mac and Mirage and Tango In The Night and you find a few songs everybody’s wanted to do but never actually suggested, and you play them and pretty soon you start to see the right twenty songs somewhere on the horizon.

You’re back to a three-writer collaboration in Fleetwood Mac. How has that process worked historically in the band?
Christine (Movie) wrote most of the singles. She was the pop writer. And then Lindsey would get into the production, which is what he does, and he would try to pull that pop out of her, so what would be left was a great pop song with a real great [sings] ‘Say that you love me…’ Lindsey and I do what we do, and when you put the three together you have Fleetwood Mac.

Christine McVie was also interviewed in this edition of the magazine

The 2018 reissue of the Fleetwood Mac album is also reviewed in this edition of magazine

[FuzzyPlum]

Lindsey describes himself as the brains and Christine as the heart...hmmm. Okay I'll take that.
Spring rehearsals confirmed...surely very, very late spring???

[RudieCantFail]

Lindsey describes himself as the brains and Christine as the heart...hmmm. Okay I'll take that.
Spring rehearsals confirmed...surely very, very late spring???

Then, what's Stevie? lol

Well, technically summer doesn't start until June 21st, so they have until then.

[HomerMcvie]

Then, what's Stevie? lol


god, you make it so easy!!!!!:lol:

[elle]

Then, what's Stevie? lol

Well, technically summer doesn't start until June 21st, so they have until then.

what was she in the heart and soul tour (was that what it was called, the tour when she was opening for Rod Stewart)?

[jbrownsjr]

Then, what's Stevie? lol



The money and sales!

[aleuzzi]

Christine (Movie) wrote most of the singles. She was the pop writer. And then Lindsey would get into the production, which is what he does, and he would try to pull that pop out of her, so what would be left was a great pop song with a real great [sings] ‘Say that you love me…’ Lindsey and I do what we do, and when you put the three together you have Fleetwood Mac.

The 2018 reissue of the Fleetwood Mac album is also reviewed in this edition of magazine[/COLOR]

Glad Stevie is accurately giving Christine her props. If Lindsey were saying this, he'd say, "Christine wanted me to help her..." or "I co-wrote most of those songs and didn't get credit." So annoying--and distorted.

[aleuzzi]

Then, what's Stevie? lol

Well, technically summer doesn't start until June 21st, so they have until then.

I guess she was the siren who allured people closer and closer before the band slayed them with its sound.

Then she became the diva who (sometimes humorously) kept the band afloat in the public eye because Landslide is about Katrina and Hillary's election.

[Mr Scarrott]

new (or at least recent) interview with Christine courtesy of fleetwoodmac-uk.com -


Fleetwood Mac will be touring in 2018 What are prospects for some new material from the band?
I certainly think it’s a good idea, I think it would be quite nice to cut a couple of new ones. We’ll have to wait and see. We’re planning to start rehearsing sometime in the spring.



It's good that Chris can still at least envisage "a couple of new ones". Even if we only get one Christine and one Lindsey Mac tune with some backing vocals from Stevie from this final act of the Mac that would be something. Not much, admittedly, but something...

[jbrownsjr]

I guess she was the siren who allured people closer and closer before the band slayed them with its sound.

Then she became the diva who (sometimes humorously) kept the band afloat in the public eye because Landslide is about Katrina and Hillary's election.

No it was about the Nashville Floods and Watergate and Queen Elizabeth's marriage to The Duke of Edinburgh, and Princess Dianna.. and.....

C'mon Tony.. keep up... :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

It's good that Chris can still at least envisage "a couple of new ones". Even if we only get one Christine and one Lindsey Mac tune with some backing vocals from Stevie from this final act of the Mac that would be something. Not much, admittedly, but something...

It is something...

The only songs I liked from the Dance were Sweet Girl and Bleed to Love Her..(Live).. don't really like the SYW version..

[sodascouts]

I think Lindsey at one time was difficult to work with, but if the Say You Will documentary is anything to go by, he walks on eggshells now around Stevie and I imagine is similarly careful not to upset Christine.

I love Stevie, and honestly there are so many people relentlessly bashing her on the Ledge now that I'm hesitant to criticize her because I feel she's become a punching bag.... but unfortunately I believe that she thinks Lindsey is hard to work with at this point because she's unable to handle constructive criticism, no matter how tactfully given.

Exhibit A: how offended she is by Lindsey's mild suggestion that she keep her "you" and "she" consistent in "Thrown Down" - which is actually good advice, given in a non-confrontational manner. His manner is irrelevant, however. She's outraged that he presumed to criticize her lyrics, and feels personally attacked. She wants to work with a yes-man like Dave Stewart, who tells her lyrics like "What's faster than a fast car" and "What's deeper than a deep well" are brilliant.

[aleuzzi]

I think Lindsey at one time was difficult to work with, but if the Say You Will documentary is anything to go by, he walks on eggshells now around Stevie and I imagine is similarly careful not to upset Christine.

I love Stevie, and honestly there are so many people relentlessly bashing her on the Ledge now that I'm hesitant to criticize her because I feel she's become a punching bag.... but unfortunately I believe that she thinks Lindsey is hard to work with at this point because she's unable to handle constructive criticism, no matter how tactfully given.

Exhibit A: how offended she is by Lindsey's mild suggestion that she keep her "you" and "she" consistent in "Thrown Down" - which is actually good advice, given in a non-confrontational manner. His manner is irrelevant, however. She's outraged that he presumed to criticize her lyrics, and feels personally attacked. She wants to work with a yes-man like Dave Stewart, who tells her lyrics like "What's faster than a fast car" and "What's deeper than a deep well" are brilliant.

Well, she can be touchy with constructive criticism, but I am realizing more and more how insufferable Lindsey must be to work with. Yes, his surface demeanor seems to be more pleasant, but his carefully-crafted (and long-winded) speeches in interviews and at the mic tell another story: he thinks he hasn't had his due within the band; that his producer's credit isn't enough; that he needs co-writing credits---I can see where Stevie thinks this is bunk. Yes, his productions are often creative and essential to bringing the bare skeleton of a song into its fully-fleshed state. But that is as a producer. I could only imagine him trying to wrestle a co-writing from Stevie, whose demos are a usually lot less fleshed out than Christine's. Stevie knows well enough that the bare skeleton of the song IS the song itself. Christine shrugs her shoulders and says, "You want co-writing credit on "That's How I feel"? Fabulous. Have at it. You want to tinker with my lyrics? Sure. What the hell." I admire her openness and her humility, but I don't blame Stevie one bit in insisting that her songs are her own--and that her words, however ungrammatical, are her own. The I-you pronoun shift in "Throw Down" is grammatically questionable but evocative in the way a a consistent first or third pronoun would not be. She ain't no Bob Dylan, but she is her own brand of poet.

But "Landslide" is NOT about Katrina--a disaster decades after the song's composition. And I doubt the spirit of Rhiannon flows through our soldiers. Hey, all five of them are wackadoo sometimes.

[aleuzzi]

No it was about the Nashville Floods and Watergate and Queen Elizabeth's marriage to The Duke of Edinburgh, and Princess Dianna.. and.....

C'mon Tony.. keep up... :lol:

It's about Harvey Weinstein's sock drawer.

[elle]

I think Lindsey at one time was difficult to work with, but if the Say You Will documentary is anything to go by, he walks on eggshells now around Stevie and I imagine is similarly careful not to upset Christine.
thank you! that was exact impression i had when watching DR doc - he was walking on eggshells.

Yes, his surface demeanor seems to be more pleasant, but his carefully-crafted (and long-winded) speeches in interviews and at the mic tell another story:
where have you been the last 15 or so years?? haven't you heard any of his FM or BM speeches before? :lol: they are always ridiculously over-prepared. to me, that signals insecurity in speaking off the cuff while in front of audiences, and not much else. :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

It's about Harvey Weinstein's sock drawer.

It's about whatever makes me look GOOD!!

[button-lip]

Glad Stevie is accurately giving Christine her props. If Lindsey were saying this, he'd say, "Christine wanted me to help her..." or "I co-wrote most of those songs and didn't get credit." So annoying--and distorted.

Stevie is only putting Christine as the “band’s top songwriter” because she doesn’t want to give Lindsey any credit and she knows she’s also not the top songwriter. If I’m not the top songwriter, you’re not either. If we fall, we fall together, or something like that.

I clearly remember Stevie saying on Ken’s book how The Chain is really “her song” and she has to share profits with the rest of the band. :lol::lol:

[button-lip]

I think Lindsey at one time was difficult to work with, but if the Say You Will documentary is anything to go by, he walks on eggshells now around Stevie and I imagine is similarly careful not to upset Christine.

I love Stevie, and honestly there are so many people relentlessly bashing her on the Ledge now that I'm hesitant to criticize her because I feel she's become a punching bag.... but unfortunately I believe that she thinks Lindsey is hard to work with at this point because she's unable to handle constructive criticism, no matter how tactfully given.

Exhibit A: how offended she is by Lindsey's mild suggestion that she keep her "you" and "she" consistent in "Thrown Down" - which is actually good advice, given in a non-confrontational manner. His manner is irrelevant, however. She's outraged that he presumed to criticize her lyrics, and feels personally attacked. She wants to work with a yes-man like Dave Stewart, who tells her lyrics like "What's faster than a fast car" and "What's deeper than a deep well" are brilliant.

Fortunately, Lindsey finally understood and gave up begging her for a new album. I think this is all in the past now, and I personally can’t wait for a new BuckVie collaboration. :nod::]

[sue]

Fortunately, Lindsey finally understood and gave up begging her for a new album. I think this is all in the past now, and I personally can’t wait for a new BuckVie collaboration. :nod::]

I think you’re spot on here.
I think he has given up on a new FMac album.....he went ahead with BuckVie,
and enjoyed the whole thing from studio to Tour.
He’s not too bothered if she’s on board or not.....Her loss.
And as you say roll on new BuckVie ..I would not have said that 12 months ago.

[aleuzzi]

[QUOTE=elle;1220493
where have you been the last 15 or so years?? haven't you heard any of his FM or BM speeches before? :lol: they are always ridiculously over-prepared. to me, that signals insecurity in speaking off the cuff while in front of audiences, and not much else. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Oh, I've been watching them, but 15 years ago--or even six, no one was saying "Lindsey isn't a difficult bugger anymore." Back then it was just a given, now we have the new (BS) narrative.

[jbrownsjr]

Oh, I've been watching them, but 15 years ago--or even six, no one was saying "Lindsey isn't a difficult bugger anymore." Back then it was just a given, now we have the new (BS) narrative.

The only thing wrong with Lindsey is that he's not Christine.

There I said it. :xoxo:

[elle]

Oh, I've been watching them, but 15 years ago--or even six, no one was saying "Lindsey isn't a difficult bugger anymore." Back then it was just a given, now we have the new (BS) narrative.

why get mad at Chris though? if that helps, it's not exactly new, Christine has been saying this basically since she came back - that he used to be very antisocial / socially awkward, completely focused and intense, while he's much more a "normal" complete person now. i guess therapy, yoga, family and having a life outside music does wonders for the man!

the only person who has been consistent in dumping on LB as far as working relationship goes (between of course saying how amazing he is :lol:) is Stevie. and i think in her case, however much he may at times try to walk on eggshells to appease her, he also knows how to pull her strings as does she his. they are that type of exes that can never really be at peace with each other. so i can see that while everyone else might think he's just fantastic to work with (and let's face it, that's a long list, including Tom Petty, John Stewart, Trent Reznor, Richard Dashut, plus all those newer artists - but that's a bit different because those guys are already viewing him as a legend), Stevie may never get to have that experience.

[aleuzzi]

why get mad at Chris though? if that helps, it's not exactly new, Christine has been saying this basically since she came back - that he used to be very antisocial / socially awkward, completely focused and intense, while he's much more a "normal" complete person now. i guess therapy, yoga, family and having a life outside music does wonders for the man!

the only person who has been consistent in dumping on LB as far as working relationship goes (between of course saying how amazing he is :lol:) is Stevie. and i think in her case, however much he may at times try to walk on eggshells to appease her, he also knows how to pull her strings as does she his. they are that type of exes that can never really be at peace with each other. so i can see that while everyone else might think he's just fantastic to work with (and let's face it, that's a long list, including Tom Petty, John Stewart, Trent Reznor, Richard Dashut, plus all those newer artists - but that's a bit different because those guys are already viewing him as a legend), Stevie may never get to have that experience.

I’m actually not mad at Chris, though I wish she’d be a bit more assertive about her own songs.

[aleuzzi]

The only thing wrong with Lindsey is that he's not Christine.

There I said it. :xoxo:

Touché! And agreed.

[jbrownsjr]

I’m actually not mad at Chris, though I wish she’d be a bit more assertive about her own songs.

I know what you mean. But, in listening to out takes and especially the White Album Deluxe.. you can hear what a powerhouse she is in the process.

I have a dancer friend, Gabriel, who is exactly like her. He will put on a show or direct a show and take no credit whatsoever. It's like he's making dinner and just goes about his business. Some artists just don't bloviate like Stevie and Lindsey.

They do the moment and move on.

[bombaysaffires]

thank you! that was exact impression i had when watching DR doc - he was walking on eggshells.



it's funny because all throughout the DR doc Stevie talks repeatedly about walking on eggshells around HIM.... the whole double album thing, and how nobody wants to say anything to him and upset him by saying they don't want the double album, and we want him to have all his dreams come true so everyone is tiptoeing around him.......

And truth be told, we have never been privy in any of the "making of" documentaries to how bad it really was between them in the studio. He was so miserable to her during Rumours but really more during Tusk. If you think they're gonna let you see that footage you're nuts. But it's there. He was often deliberately cruel and nasty and insulting and went out of his way to humiliate her in front of the band and recording crew. Even Richard has sort of acknowledged this in a very very careful vague sort of way, and Ken has talked about it, and even Carol in her book talks about how mocking and nasty he was to Stevie. Did she push his buttons too? Sure. But he really is much better at the nasty stuff than she is. So in DR her reluctance to totally open up to him and trust him with stuff is evident; their history makes her cautious. There's a scene where she's been at the mixing studio before him (Thrown Down I think) and he comes in and she says "I've been here about an hour and now you can just rip into it" and she says it trying to make a sort of joke but clearly expecting him to poop all over the mix she's worked on with Mark Needham. There's little clues all over that doc.

Let's suffice to say they tiptoe around each other.

[elle]

it's funny because all throughout the DR doc Stevie talks repeatedly about walking on eggshells around HIM.... the whole double album thing, and how nobody wants to say anything to him and upset him by saying they don't want the double album, and we want him to have all his dreams come true so everyone is tiptoeing around him.......
she does, doesn't she? maybe that's why so many fans came out of watching that doc with the impression that he's being a huge a**hole. :xoxo: reading those fan reviews first, and then seeing the doc, i was stunned and couldn't understand what those people were seeing that i was not - because yes, my impression was exact one Nancy so nicely worded - he was so obviously walking on eggshells trying to appease her.

they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results. the difference is - he is not actually saying it and you need to watch his reactions to see that he's mostly holding his tongue (dream-catcher scene? soo hilarious!) and trying to make her happy, while she's mostly being loud and passive aggressive about it, making it known to everyone how she's "sacrificing for his happiness" as you described above.

however in the scene with Lord-Algae (not Mark Needham) that you mention, she seems to be genuinely protective of Lindsey - because she knows Lord-Algae is her mixer, not his, and to me the way she said "now you rip into it" sounded like she's making it clear to Lord-Algae that he needs to listen to what LB may contribute.

definitely interesting dynamic, and obviously the one that doesn't work, the same as when they actually both say what they mean. :laugh: :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

she does, doesn't she? maybe that's why so many fans came out of watching that doc with the impression that he's being a huge a**hole. :xoxo: reading those fan reviews first, and then seeing the doc, i was stunned and couldn't understand what those people were seeing that i was not - because yes, my impression was exact one Nancy so nicely worded - he was so obviously walking on eggshells trying to appease her.

they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results. the difference is - he is not actually saying it and you need to watch his reactions to see that he's mostly holding his tongue (dream-catcher scene? soo hilarious!) and trying to make her happy, while she's mostly being loud and passive aggressive about it, making it known to everyone how she's "sacrificing for his happiness" as you described above.

however in the scene with Lord-Algae (not Mark Needham) that you mention, she seems to be genuinely protective of Lindsey - because she knows Lord-Algae is her mixer, not his, and to me the way she said "now you rip into it" sounded like she's making it clear to Lord-Algae that he needs to listen to what LB may contribute.

definitely interesting dynamic, and obviously the one that doesn't work, the same as when they actually both say what they mean. :laugh: :shrug:

It's funny when you watch DR then BuckVie... :lol:

[button-lip]

they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results. the difference is - he is not actually saying it and you need to watch his reactions to see that he's mostly holding his tongue (dream-catcher scene? soo hilarious!) and trying to make her happy, while she's mostly being loud and passive aggressive about it, making it known to everyone how she's "sacrificing for his happiness" as you described above.


That's why this time he saved Stevie from another sacrifice and chose Christine as his musical partner. No more Bob Dylan, no more dream-catcher, no more Karen, no more asking her to do another album. Lindsey is so relaxed around Christine. The awkardness is gone. And I guess he's tired of dealing with it. :distress:

[bombaysaffires]

they are both tiptoeing around each other, at least from what we can glance in that DR doc - which was probably making them completely unhappy with the results of whatever work they did together, because each of them feels like they are trying to please the other and in the end both are unsatisfied with the results.


to me, this is exactly it in everything they do together. :(

We'll have to agree to disagree about the mixing session. I haven't watched it in quite a while so one of these days i'll have to go back and watch it with your take on it in mind.... For now I stick with my interpretation :laugh:

[SteveMacD]

The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.

[JohnL]

I find it very entertaining reading these threads. I have seen the same group of people here who continually poke fun at the Stevie groups on Facebook and at other online Stevie groups because of their refusal to accept anything negative about Stevie Nicks. And here you all sit gushing and gushing about Lindsey or Christine and acting like you know what they are thinking on a day to day basis and about the relationships they have with people in their band they have known for over 40 years...but knowing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Lindsey is tired of Stevie and doesnt care if she records anymore. Christine and Stevie never made a pact to make the same as the boys in the band. Geez...I think we should just start a Lets Bash Stevie Nicks thread and let you guys just go to town constantly. You just cant help yourselves. It is in literally 99% of the threads on this Rumours board. Look at yourselves in the mirror!!

[HomerMcvie]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[jbrownsjr]

The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.

When I heard the Dreams' demo compared to the release, I dropped my jaw...

Oh my what an amazing production. I love the studio version of Dreams. The band captures Stevie's song and lifts it to new heights. Keyboards, backing vocals, the guitar work, the bass and drums... All magic.

It's also interesting to note that a lot of complaints about SYW were continuity issues.

[elle]

I find it very entertaining reading these threads. I have seen the same group of people here who continually poke fun at the Stevie groups on Facebook and at other online Stevie groups because of their refusal to accept anything negative about Stevie Nicks. And here you all sit gushing and gushing about Lindsey or Christine and acting like you know what they are thinking on a day to day basis and about the relationships they have with people in their band they have known for over 40 years...but knowing that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Lindsey is tired of Stevie and doesnt care if she records anymore. Christine and Stevie never made a pact to make the same as the boys in the band. Geez...I think we should just start a Lets Bash Stevie Nicks thread and let you guys just go to town constantly. You just cant help yourselves. It is in literally 99% of the threads on this Rumours board. Look at yourselves in the mirror!!
Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here! :wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here! :wavey:

There needs to be another board like Seven Wonders. All Stevie worship, all the time. Say anything negative about her, and get permanently banned. Hitler would've loved owning a board like that.

[bombaysaffires]

The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.

Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance, and made her dependent on someone who for quite a while didn't always have the best intentions towards her music. Once she went solo, she did this even more. People often confuse *songwriting* demos which are just her recording herself during the raw writing process, and then getting a complete start-to-finish performance of what she's written with a demo of how you want the finished song to sound. She used to just do her songwriting demo and hand it off to Lindsey for the most part. For many years now, since going solo, she will work with other musicians to record a more arranged version of the song. She did this because she felt frustrated that often the way her songs came out working with Lindsey wasn't what she wanted. As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world. Just because in the early days she was lazier, or less inclined to fight with him while they were a couple or didn't have the years and years of experience in the studio that she has now doesn't mean she has to still work that way. Let's not forget how many albums she's done, she's not totally clueless about how different recording techniques work and how to get some of the sound she wants.

[JohnL]

Aww sorry to hear that even Facebook FM groups are not places of SN worship you’d like them to be and you can’t find what you want even there. I’m sure there must be at least some closed groups on social media that will satisfy your SN needs.

On another note, happy to read you are entertained and not angry anymore, and I enjoy reading your posts in chit chat forum here! :wavey:

Dont put words in my mouth. I didnt say that. I said that you and your friends make fun of them...not me. I have never been angry. This isnt important enough to be angry about. I just find some folks behavior on here a little juvenile.

[elle]

^idk.:shrug: your posts come across as angry and reading into lot of stuff that's not really there. and disrespectful to people and discussions here.

[sodascouts]

The thing I found curious was that Stevie came to the sessions with fully flushed out demos and was upset by the way Lindsey deviated from them. Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey have all consistently stated over the decades that one of Lindsey’s biggest strengths was taking something completely rudimentary from Stevie (I believe Christine called it “rubbish”) and turning it into something spectacular. That’s always been the way he’s looked at his role in the band. It seems a little bizarre that she went into the sessions that way, especially knowing the core of Lindsey’s material was culled from songs he/they had been working on for at least six years. All three guys, not just Lindsey, seemed a little put off by it.

Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!

[Iamwilliame]

Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!

This right here is the best explanation of their musical relationship. Lindsey is not the same producer he was 35 years ago. He is set in his ways now just as much as Stevie is. I also find his production style way too artificial at times.

[elle]

This right here is the best explanation of their musical relationship. Lindsey is not the same producer he was 35 years ago. He is set in his ways now just as much as Stevie is. I also find his production style way too artificial at times.
agree, they both developed in different directions.

Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance, and made her dependent on someone who for quite a while didn't always have the best intentions towards her music. Once she went solo, she did this even more. People often confuse *songwriting* demos which are just her recording herself during the raw writing process, and then getting a complete start-to-finish performance of what she's written with a demo of how you want the finished song to sound. She used to just do her songwriting demo and hand it off to Lindsey for the most part. For many years now, since going solo, she will work with other musicians to record a more arranged version of the song. She did this because she felt frustrated that often the way her songs came out working with Lindsey wasn't what she wanted. As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world. Just because in the early days she was lazier, or less inclined to fight with him while they were a couple or didn't have the years and years of experience in the studio that she has now doesn't mean she has to still work that way. Let's not forget how many albums she's done, she's not totally clueless about how different recording techniques work and how to get some of the sound she wants.

i enjoyed reading this and i think it explains many things, as both soda and iamwilliame said. while Stevie's early days song ideas were heavily dependent on Lindsey fleshing them out, with her growth as an artist she now has ideas for a complete song sound which are very different than what he might do.

this all means that what many fans want from the Mac - collaborating and building songs together from rudimentary song ideas - while seem to be working better than ever with songs that originate from either Lindsey or Christine, ending in numerous co-writes on BuckVie, does not seem like something Stevie is interesed in doing with the Mac anymore. and it doesn't sound like she's interested in adding to other members' songs either - remember back in 2012 Lindsey brought to the Mac bunch of his own rudimentary song ideas so they can build them all together. several years later Chris took several of those and made them into songs like Too Far Gone and Red Sun.

[SteveMacD]

Stevie began working out her songs with other people right after she and Lindsey broke up. She realized that relying on him for that created a real power imbalance,
They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.

As you could see in her film with Dave Stewart, Stevie evolved into wanting and getting more control over the arrangement of her songs over time and that's been the case even when working on solo albums with Jimmy. That's why they would argue in the studio.

So I wasn't at all surprised that she brought fleshed out demos to the band. She had clear ideas about how she wanted those songs to go. She's not obligated to give him a raw songwriting demo. They're her songs. As a producer he should respect how the writer wants a song to go-- in fact that's exactly the job of a producer, to help an artist get their vision out to the world.
The flip side of that coin is that TITN and especially SYW began life as Lindsey solo projects, so why should he have to change his vision and interrupt the continuity of a project he (and the others) had been working on for five or six years before she got involved?

And, what about Mick and John? Should they have to be beholden to Stevie’s demos? They’re artists, too, and it’s their band. John is as passionate/territorial about his bass lines as Stevie is about her songs. John gets especially offended with writers coming in with completed demos, and will demand they come back with the bass taken out of the mix. Fleetwood Mac is a band, and everyone has his/her input on the songs. What might be completely reasonable and necessary for her solo career won’t necessarily fly with Fleetwood Mac.

I suspect that’s why Lindsey wanted to start what he’d hoped would be the next album from scratch with Stevie.

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie and Lindsey's chemistry musically and romantically has drifted just about completely apart..

Whereas, Christine and Lindsey seemed to have grown even with dormant years and a sea between them. And I dare say they care about the band's creativity more than the other members.
I love that Lindsey has a solo album coming out as well. He's not hanging his hat on either of his careers. Admirable.

[JohnL]

^idk.:shrug: your posts come across as angry and reading into lot of stuff that's not really there. and disrespectful to people and discussions here.

As I said, look in the mirror. Disrespect is this board's first name...not middle but first.

[jbrownsjr]

They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.


Fleetwood Mac is a band,

Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

[HomerMcvie]

As I said, look in the mirror. Disrespect is this board's first name...not middle but first.

Yet you act like you're so unhappy here.

According to your definition, you fit in perfectly.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

[jbrownsjr]

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

Don't get me wrong. I love the three singers' solo work, too. And they even get magic there, too. It's just that when it comes time for the band, LB and CM know how to meld.

Seven Wonders came out amazing because of the background singing and guitar, keys, drums and bass. That synth is a really cool sounds. But really, that was sort of mailed in. SYW was a decent album, but it lacked that magic.

example: Illume.. great song.. Christine on it would make it a dream..

In my opinion, adding Christine to Crystal was the best thing that ever happened to that song. The keyboard solo at the end of the song rides off into the sea.

[bombaysaffires]

They seemed to have moved past that by the time she got involved with SYW. She and Lindsey seemed to be in a better place.


The flip side of that coin is that TITN and especially SYW began life as Lindsey solo projects, so why should he have to change his vision and interrupt the continuity of a project he (and the others) had been working on for five or six years before she got involved?

And, what about Mick and John? Should they have to be beholden to Stevie’s demos? They’re artists, too, and it’s their band. John is as passionate/territorial about his bass lines as Stevie is about her songs. John gets especially offended with writers coming in with completed demos, and will demand they come back with the bass taken out of the mix. Fleetwood Mac is a band, and everyone has his/her input on the songs. What might be completely reasonable and necessary for her solo career won’t necessarily fly with Fleetwood Mac.

I suspect that’s why Lindsey wanted to start what he’d hoped would be the next album from scratch with Stevie.

He shouldn't have to, and if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. After all, he did leave the band at one point. He's been very open in interviews about needing to step away from FM in order to appreciate being in a band, and working more collaboratively and less dictatorially. He could easily hold onto his stuff for solo work if he wanted. I'm sure he realizes that his work gets more attention and reaches a wider audience when he's with FM. I have never heard anyone say the band gave him ultimatums about giving up his solo work.

Yes John and Mick might have ideas, and those ideas are consulted when they contribute their parts. They are free to offer ideas about the full song, e.g. when Mick suggested a brass band on Tusk. John created the bass line to the Chain etc. But always the writer of a song has more of a say, in pretty much any band. And you're assuming Mick and John want that sort of active arranging role, which they have never indicated they do. As John says, "I can't see into the writer's head" sometimes when working on songs so the studio can be tedious for him. No one (anymore) tells mick or john "just play this and shut up" (Lindsey tried this in this past). I'm sure any of the writers ever in FM had more of a say of what they wanted a song to be, while being open to suggestions from others.

So yes, Mick and John to some extent ARE beholden to the vision of Stevie or Lindsey or Chris. Just not slavishly. Your Stevie hatred is showing.:shrug:

ETA: Lindsey clearly did NOT change his vision for his songs on SYW and that contributed in part to the sense of disjointedness many find on that album. He then tried to impose that vision onto Stevie's songs and the result was not good. That is also part of the reason she's not keen on working on a band album with him at the helm again. It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.

[bombaysaffires]

agree, they both developed in different directions.



i enjoyed reading this and i think it explains many things, as both soda and iamwilliame said. while Stevie's early days song ideas were heavily dependent on Lindsey fleshing them out, with her growth as an artist she now has ideas for a complete song sound which are very different than what he might do.

this all means that what many fans want from the Mac - collaborating and building songs together from rudimentary song ideas - while seem to be working better than ever with songs that originate from either Lindsey or Christine, ending in numerous co-writes on BuckVie, does not seem like something Stevie is interesed in doing with the Mac anymore. and it doesn't sound like she's interested in adding to other members' songs either - remember back in 2012 Lindsey brought to the Mac bunch of his own rudimentary song ideas so they can build them all together. several years later Chris took several of those and made them into songs like Too Far Gone and Red Sun.

songwriting demos is much the same meaning as "roughs" which Lindsey uses to refer to the recordings Chris sent him from England of the early basic versions of her songs when she first was reaching out and first rejoined the band. I just watched the 'making of' video of the BuckVie album the other day for the first time in a long time.....so cool.

[bombaysaffires]

I agree completely. Projects where all their individual solo crap Is just thrown in, is when you end up with SYW, or BTM. Collaboration is how they finesse the FM sound.

^ This. :thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

songwriting demos is much the same meaning as "roughs" which Lindsey uses to refer to the recordings Chris sent him from England of the early basic versions of her songs when she first was reaching out and first rejoined the band. I just watched the 'making of' video of the BuckVie album the other day for the first time in a long time.....so cool.

Every time I watch that video I get tears. Like seeing an old friend after so many years. Now, I gotta go watch it.

[HomerMcvie]

Every time I watch that video I get tears. Like seeing an old friend after so many years. Now, I gotta go watch it.

I cried several times watching my BuckVie shows. The band of my life is winding down, and that makes me terribly sad...

And I'm getting older, too...

[SteveMacD]

He shouldn't have to, and if he didn't want to, he wouldn't. After all, he did leave the band at one point.
If given the choice, Lindsey probably would have preferred releasing his SYW songs as a part of a solo album, but the decision on how to proceed was much more complicated than that.

The new leadership at WB following the December, 1992 death of WB head Steve Ross (not the guitarist) brought in changes that didn’t necessarily benefit the band. Ross had had a hands off approach to Warner Music, but the new head was described as a bean counter. By August, 1994, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker, both champions of Fleetwood Mac, were out at the label. Given the poor performances of OOTC, Street Angel, and Time (and the lack of promotion for the latter two albums), I think Lindsey was being very cautious about how to proceed. He could have released a solo album a few years earlier, but he was encouraged to wait and see what was going on at the label and was entertaining offers from other labels. I suspect what was going to be GoS was recorded with the durability of becoming a Fleetwood Mac album, if needed.

I have never heard anyone say the band gave him ultimatums about giving up his solo work.
No, they just stuck a producer they knew he’d hate working with to force his hand (which Mick bragged about in 1987).

And you're assuming Mick and John want that sort of active arranging role, which they have never indicated they do.
John has said in numerous interviews that he makes songwriters take the bass out of their demos and that Lindsey was especially bad about telling him what to play. It’s not an assumption, it’s what he’s said over the years.

ETA: Lindsey clearly did NOT change his vision for his songs on SYW and that contributed in part to the sense of disjointedness many find on that album. He then tried to impose that vision onto Stevie's songs and the result was not good.
But that’s the whole point of what I’m saying. The fact is Lindsey, as well as Mick, John, and even Christine, began working on the project in late 1995/early 1996. They weren’t going to change the vision for the album at that point. (“What you don’t realize, Stevie, is that we’ve just spent the last six months trying not to be ourselves.”)

That’s also why Lindsey wanted to do something from scratch with Stevie so that she would have equal input on the direction of the album.

That is also part of the reason she's not keen on working on a band album with him at the helm again.
Which he said he’d be willing to give up, and why he brought Mitchell Froom on board for EP.

But, Stevie can’t just send over demos, be completely removed from the creative process, and be upset when it goes in a direction she doesn’t like.

It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.
Not necessarily. I see people on here who are critical of his production techniques. I think many, myself included, think Lindsey could get back to doing more basic, fundamental songs and production. And, I think he’s open to it in the context of a Fleetwood Mac album.

[jbrownsjr]

God, I missed you. ^^^

[button-lip]

Stevie and Lindsey's chemistry musically and romantically has drifted just about completely apart..

Whereas, Christine and Lindsey seemed to have grown even with dormant years and a sea between them. And I dare say they care about the band's creativity more than the other members.
I love that Lindsey has a solo album coming out as well. He's not hanging his hat on either of his careers. Admirable.

I swear I believe the man will work until he can no longer stand up in front of the mic and hold his guitar :laugh::laugh: I think he still has so much to offer and he enjoys it very, very much. :D


Stevie has always had a hard time with this notion. Whereas Christine and Lindsey are more of a collaborative effort for the sake of the band. The band is where the magic happens, in my opinion.

Well, clearly many of us agree on this. I like Stevie's solo career, and I love Lindsey's and Christine's solo work, but only FM songs can make me jump up and down on the stage, sing in the middle of the street and forget about anything bad going on in my life. They're definitely magical together. And I can't wait to see them again. :]:nod:

[button-lip]

It's so funny because if someone said Lindsey should let Stevie have full control over how Lindsey's songs should sound, people would freak out.

For that to happen you need some musical skills Stevie doesn't possess. She could never have control over a guitar player's songs if she doesn't know how to play the guitar. Same with Christine's songs.

That's probably why nobody ever suggested it. :shrug:

[ricohv]

Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!
This is one of the most insightful things I've read in regards to Lindsey & Stevie in a long time. And I hadn't really considered it. Lindsey's production has evolved in a way that doesn't seem to fit Stevie's style. And she still needs a good producer's help, but maybe in a more organic way. Dave Stewart did it successfully on In Your Dreams but turned 24k Gold into a hot production mess, JMHO! :sorry:

[lbfan]

Another problem is that Lindsey's on a different page than Stevie now musically, and has been for quite some time, when it comes to "sound." He often likes to make things sound unnatural - manipulated vocals, sped up guitar parts, sound effects, etc... she's not into that. Back in the day, his suggestions involved adding interesting harmonies, bridges, guitar parts... but in the recent era, they might also include adding bizarre stuff like the freaky manipulated voice echoing that "What I saw on this journey" verse in "Illume." That was definitely.... different.... and not very "Stevie." So I can kind of see where she might be a little nervous.

On the other hand, she made him promise to leave "Without You" alone and he did... and I think it would have benefited from some tweaking in its arrangement! Not by adding gimmicks, mind you, but by finding ways to make it less repetitive. Lindsey could have helped her with that. These people need to find middle ground!
The obvious exception from back in the day (that apparently Stevie did like) is Gold Dust Woman which included breaking glass and stressed out shrieks (reference Rumours Classic Albums video). Lindsey has always pushed the envelope, but in in the best interest of the song production, not only with his own songs, but with others as well. For example, on the Buckingham McVie CD - Christine discussed the “liberties he took” on Feel About You, which she liked, but it was different than what she anticipated. For me personally, that is the “Fleetwood Mac sound” that is classic and timeless. I can’t imagine Gold Dust Woman, or Landslide, or any other FM song any other way than it was produced. Lindsey deserves the lion share of the credit (or blame depending on your perspective) for the outcome of the songs.

[FuzzyPlum]

Lindsey is a visionary producer- I get that. He's a talented guy.
But I wonder whether he's been elevated a bit too high with regards to those early albums. He wasn't originally given the credit as producer but now I think it might have gone a bit far the other way.

Richard Dashut & Ken Caillat...and even Keith Olsen. Those guys had a major impact on The Mac sound.

As far as In Your Dreams- I think it was a bit bland, so, yeah I'd have welcomed some of Lindsey's quirks.
Feel About You- I get what he was aiming for, but I'd love to hear a stripped back version. I think he just missed the mark a bit.

[bombaysaffires]

I tried answering your post on my mobile and it was a royal pain in the bum, but I'm not going to go back so I'll just post it as it is.....


The new leadership at WB following the December, 1992 death of WB head Steve Ross (not the guitarist) brought in changes that didn’t necessarily benefit the band. Ross had had a hands off approach to Warner Music, but the new head was described as a bean counter. By August, 1994, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker, both champions of Fleetwood Mac, were out at the label. Given the poor performances of OOTC, Street Angel, and Time (and the lack of promotion for the latter two albums), I think Lindsey was being very cautious about how to proceed. He could have released a solo album a few years earlier, but he was encouraged to wait and see what was going on at the label and was entertaining offers from other labels. I suspect what was going to be GoS was recorded with the durability of becoming a Fleetwood Mac album, if needed. [/I]

What you describe are the politics at the record label. He didn't have to agree to merging his solo album into a Mac album, but he did. They made a case that his stuff would reach a wider audience via FM than solo because he'd been off the scene for a number of years. He processed that advice and chose to take it. Maybe they pressured him. But what you've described isn't the band pressuring him, it's all the machinations at the label. Again, if he felt that strongly about keeping it a solo album, he should have. There were ways to get your own music out "to the right ears" without a label even then.


No, they just stuck a producer they knew he’d hate working with to force his hand (which Mick bragged about in 1987).

Bringing in a producer he would hate to work with made him do a band album? You've lost me here.


John has said in numerous interviews that he makes songwriters take the bass out of their demos and that Lindsey was especially bad about telling him what to play. It’s not an assumption, it’s what he’s said over the years.

Yes, that was part of what I said in my previous post. Lindsey tried telling people exactly what to play and it didn't go over well with Mick and John.


But that’s the whole point of what I’m saying. The fact is Lindsey, as well as Mick, John, and even Christine, began working on the project in late 1995/early 1996. They weren’t going to change the vision for the album at that point. (“What you don’t realize, Stevie, is that we’ve just spent the last six months trying not to be ourselves.”)

Firstly, Mick's comment was a joke. It's very British. He was very much taking the piss. Second, the band DID change the vision for it, and everyone but Lindsey was on board with that, i.e. he wanted a double album and everyone else felt it should be a single album. Lindsey fought hard for his vision and they pushed back. That isn't just Stevie. Mick is in the documentary saying he agrees with his manager's opinion that the album shouldn't be Lindsey's vision. That's why Lindsey is seen saying he feels betrayed and like he doesn't have an ally in the band at that point

That’s also why Lindsey wanted to do something from scratch with Stevie so that she would have equal input on the direction of the album.

But which is it? They already had it worked out and she needed to come in and fit into it, or Lindsey was willing to start all over totally from scratch? These two comments seem contradictory.

Which he said he’d be willing to give up, and why he brought Mitchell Froom on board for EP.

I think from Stevie's perspective and years of experience working with him she has seen it can be very hard for him not to still try and control the process even with an outside producer at the board. You get glimpses of it on the BuckVie making of video.


But, Stevie can’t just send over demos, be completely removed from the creative process, and be upset when it goes in a direction she doesn’t like.

I don't disagree with this point at all.

Not necessarily. I see people on here who are critical of his production techniques. I think many, myself included, think Lindsey could get back to doing more basic, fundamental songs and production. And, I think he’s open to it in the context of a Fleetwood Mac album.

I don't know about this last one. Seeing what he did with Chris's songs on the BuckVie record doesn't give me great confidence this would really be the case.

[JohnL]

Yet you act like you're so unhappy here.

According to your definition, you fit in perfectly.

I do get a bit unhappy when I try to read through threads and the subject of the thread has absolutely nothing to do with bashing Stevie Nicks...but every thread turns into that. Do you guys take no accountability for your part in this? You cannot actually believe it is everyone else and not you.

[JohnL]

^ This. :thumbsup:

I fully agree with this. It is necessary!!

[jwd]

I used to get so defensive about Stevie. I really don't care what anyone says about her anymore. Actually I have fun with it and just chime in. All the members of the band have something you can make fun of. Stevie just gets the bulk of it, because you know the biggest stars always take the most heat. did I just say that? :D

[jbrownsjr]

I used to get so defensive about Stevie. I really don't care what anyone says about her anymore. Actually I have fun with it and just chime in. All the members of the band have something you can make fun of. Stevie just gets the bulk of it, because you know the biggest stars always take the most heat. did I just say that? :D

You did!!! :laugh:

[elle]

Lindsey is a visionary producer- I get that. He's a talented guy.
But I wonder whether he's been elevated a bit too high with regards to those early albums. He wasn't originally given the credit as producer but now I think it might have gone a bit far the other way.
he may get the credit now, the other guys still get the money so i suspect they are all good! :)

[elle]

I tried answering your post on my mobile and it was a royal pain in the bum, but I'm not going to go back so I'll just post it as it is.....
.......................................
Firstly, Mick's comment was a joke. It's very British. He was very much taking the piss. Second, the band DID change the vision for it, and everyone but Lindsey was on board with that, i.e. he wanted a double album and everyone else felt it should be a single album. Lindsey fought hard for his vision and they pushed back. That isn't just Stevie. Mick is in the documentary saying he agrees with his manager's opinion that the album shouldn't be Lindsey's vision. That's why Lindsey is seen saying he feels betrayed and like he doesn't have an ally in the band at that point.
........................................


I don't know about this last one. Seeing what he did with Chris's songs on the BuckVie record doesn't give me great confidence this would really be the case.

Mick will always agree with any opinion that will result in more money. has nothing to do with whether or not he agrees with vision. he may love the art and creating, but money always ends up being his main motivator. :shrug:

other than Feel About You, i'm not sure what other Chris' song on BuckVie you are talking about? FAY seems to be the only song Lindsey heavily changed from her "rough". she heavily changed 2 of his. and they all tried different ways of Carnival and decided to go with a slower bluesier one.

[HomerMcvie]

I do get a bit unhappy when I try to read through threads and the subject of the thread has absolutely nothing to do with bashing Stevie Nicks...but every thread turns into that. Do you guys take no accountability for your part in this? You cannot actually believe it is everyone else and not you.

Perhaps some think the most fun comes from watching the few who get totally up in arms about, having a hissy fit... Their panties in a wad. Or perhaps in a bunch, depending on the origin of one's panties.

[SteveMacD]

Maybe they pressured him. But what you've described isn't the band pressuring him, it's all the machinations at the label.
I wasn’t suggesting that he was getting pressure from the band to turn what was going to be GoS into what became SYW, just that it would be unreasonable to expect Lindsey make his songs fit the feel/vibe of Stevie’s new demos after he and the others worked for five to six years on his songs.

Again, if he felt that strongly about keeping it a solo album, he should have.
The fact he brought on Mick, John, and Christine from the outset suggests he wanted durability as to how it could be released from the gitgo. Still, as a production, it had a sound, a feel, a vibe that was fairly etched in stone by the time Stevie got involved.

Bringing in a producer he would hate to work with made him do a band album? You've lost me here.
Christine said Lindsey had to be coerced into making TITN and Mick initially brought on a producer he knew Lindsey wouldn’t like. Check out the first five minutes or so of this: https://youtu.be/pvKMvklt1k0

Yes, that was part of what I said in my previous post. Lindsey tried telling people exactly what to play and it didn't go over well with Mick and John.
It wasn’t just Lindsey …

the band DID change the vision for it, and everyone but Lindsey was on board with that, i.e. he wanted a double album and everyone else felt it should be a single album. Lindsey fought hard for his vision and they pushed back. That isn't just Stevie. Mick is in the documentary saying he agrees with his manager's opinion that the album shouldn't be Lindsey's vision. That's why Lindsey is seen saying he feels betrayed and like he doesn't have an ally in the band at that point
That’s different from what I am talking about. Regardless of single album or double album, Lindsey was always going to adapt her new songs to the sonic feel of the project he’d been working on for years.

But which is it? They already had it worked out and she needed to come in and fit into it, or Lindsey was willing to start all over totally from scratch? These two comments seem contradictory.
I was talking about the album Lindsey wanted to make after SYW that never happened. I think he wanted to make an album like how they made Buckingham Nicks.

I don't know about this last one. Seeing what he did with Chris's songs on the BuckVie record doesn't give me great confidence this would really be the case.

That’s really not a good measure, since Christine solicited Lindsey’s help and wanted him to produce her songs. She was also happy with it.

[SteveMacD]

Christine and Stevie never made a pact to make the same as the boys in the band.
Do you honestly think Christine ever felt the need to make such a pact? Do you think Christine ever had to worry about not partying with the boys? Do you really think Christine lost a single night’s sleep ever worrying that Mick might be paying her less than Bob Welch or Lindsey Buckingham? Also, Christine was still in a legal battle over who owned the band’s name, so I’m sure she was especially sensitive about getting screwed over. Not that she had anything to worry about with Fleetwood Mac, since Mick was like a brother and she was still married to John.

The only reason Stevie made those pacts was because she was completely out of her league, and the pacts gave her some sense of security.

It is in literally 99% of the threads on this Rumours board. Look at yourselves in the mirror!!

Stevie fans can dish it out with the best of them. I remember Stevie fans bashing the hell out of Bekka Bramlett in 1995. I also remember when “Twisted” was announced how Stevie fans said things like bringing in Lindsey was her revenge on Mick for not letting her use Silver Springs (obviously before it was learned Mick played drums on it). Point being that those of us who’ve been part of the Fleetwood Mac online community for over twenty years have seen ugliness from all factions.

[JohnL]

Perhaps some think the most fun comes from watching the few who get totally up in arms about, having a hissy fit... Their panties in a wad. Or perhaps in a bunch, depending on the origin of one's panties.

If I cared what you thought of me, I would have left this alone a long time ago. I just find the hypocrisy entertaining.

[JohnL]

Do you honestly think Christine ever felt the need to make such a pact? Do you think Christine ever had to worry about not partying with the boys? Do you really think Christine lost a single night’s sleep ever worrying that Mick might be paying her less than Bob Welch or Lindsey Buckingham? Also, Christine was still in a legal battle over who owned the band’s name, so I’m sure she was especially sensitive about getting screwed over. Not that she had anything to worry about with Fleetwood Mac, since Mick was like a brother and she was still married to John.

The only reason Stevie made those pacts was because she was completely out of her league, and the pacts gave her some sense of security.


Stevie fans can dish it out with the best of them. I remember Stevie fans bashing the hell out of Bekka Bramlett in 1995. I also remember when “Twisted” was announced how Stevie fans said things like bringing in Lindsey was her revenge on Mick for not letting her use Silver Springs (obviously before it was learned Mick played drums on it). Point being that those of us who’ve been part of the Fleetwood Mac online community for over twenty years have seen ugliness from all factions.

All I can say is that I can totally see them coverting after a Rumours recording session with the guys in the other house and making some kind of pact that they would never let being the girls in the band hinder their success or be used as a reason to be treated differently by others. I can so see Christine doing that. I think this is documented in a few interviews even way back in the day.

[HomerMcvie]

If I cared what you thought of me, I would have left this alone a long time ago. I just find the hypocrisy entertaining.

I really have little opinion of you. You're here. You get all upset and throw a hissy fit, ON A REGULAR BASIS, and tell us that you're never coming back. A week later... the same thing. Lather, rinse, repeat. We get it.

It is what it is. I find THAT entertaining. :lol:

Have a lovely day. :wavey::xoxo:

[elle]

All I can say is that I can totally see them coverting after a Rumours recording session with the guys in the other house and making some kind of pact that they would never let being the girls in the band hinder their success or be used as a reason to be treated differently by others. I can so see Christine doing that. I think this is documented in a few interviews even way back in the day.

Christine never needed Stevie's help to stand up for herself or realize her worth among musicians.

she has been very clear about that when directly asked about it - saying that she has no idea what Stevie was talking about.

[HomerMcvie]

Christine never needed Stevie's help to stand up for herself or realize her worth among musicians.

she has been very clear about that when directly asked about it - saying that she has no idea what Stevie was talking about.

Now that CAN'T be true! Stevie is everything! :lol:

[jbrownsjr]

Christine never needed Stevie's help to stand up for herself or realize her worth among musicians.

she has been very clear about that when directly asked about it - saying that she has no idea what Stevie was talking about.

Agreed, I've ever only heard Stevie say this. Christine was in the business by herself as the lone female back in the Chicken Shack, Shades, and early FMac days. . She was one of the guys and one tough cookie. I don't think people messed with her in that regard.

[button-lip]

Do you honestly think Christine ever felt the need to make such a pact? Do you think Christine ever had to worry about not partying with the boys? Do you really think Christine lost a single night’s sleep ever worrying that Mick might be paying her less than Bob Welch or Lindsey Buckingham? Also, Christine was still in a legal battle over who owned the band’s name, so I’m sure she was especially sensitive about getting screwed over. Not that she had anything to worry about with Fleetwood Mac, since Mick was like a brother and she was still married to John.

The only reason Stevie made those pacts was because she was completely out of her league, and the pacts gave her some sense of security.

This! Christine was always a Queen among the boys. And she didn't need to do anything! The pact. What pact? I think at this point in her career/life Christine doesn't want to spend her energy contradicting Stevie anymore. She just rolls her eyes and grabs her bat for GYOW. :lol:


Stevie fans can dish it out with the best of them. I remember Stevie fans bashing the hell out of Bekka Bramlett in 1995. I also remember when “Twisted” was announced how Stevie fans said things like bringing in Lindsey was her revenge on Mick for not letting her use Silver Springs (obviously before it was learned Mick played drums on it). Point being that those of us who’ve been part of the Fleetwood Mac online community for over twenty years have seen ugliness from all factions.

Too bad I wasn't around that time. Some fans make a fuss about everything. But Stevie's fans are particularly over sensitive and over protective of their Queen. Maybe it's because she's constantly telling them how much each of them means to her. Awwww, why can't Christine do that? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[elle]

Too bad I wasn't around that time. Some fans make a fuss about everything.

i know right? i read old threads here on TL, and even in LB forum for example there was always so much unnecessary spitting on him, in bunch of threads where i'd check for some particular info. if i was here i would have loved to jump into some discussions with TL people at the time!

what i love the best is when people clearly dislike a single band member, or clearly prefer a single band member, but claim how they love love love all of them as an excuse to be taken seriously in their dumping on whoever they don't like. :laugh:

pendulum swings, and in this day and age with all the connections on social media we probably have more info than we ever did before so we don't need to solely rely on bs publicly told by band members. especially when we know they all go back and forth with what they say, to suit a particular narrative they are pushing at the time.

[aleuzzi]

Christine never needed Stevie's help to stand up for herself or realize her worth among musicians.

she has been very clear about that when directly asked about it - saying that she has no idea what Stevie was talking about.

Please, please, please, pretty please, link me to any article where this was revealed. I totally believe you but I want to see it for myself. Especially since I never believed Stevie’s story anyway.

[elle]

Please, please, please, pretty please, link me to any article where this was revealed. I totally believe you but I want to see it for myself. Especially since I never believed Stevie’s story anyway.

i'll try to search for it. it's a bit hard since Christine gave so many interviews last year for BuckVie. i'm pretty sure it's somewhere on here (TL) too, just when you search with something like Christine pact musician etc. too many entries come up.

i think it was Christine-only interview, towards the end of last year or maybe even beginning of this one. she was asked about the "pact" and said she didn't know what Stevie was talking about, that she was a musician and that she was always respected and treated equally among her peers. but that maybe Stevie was referring to her own ever-present push/pull with Lindsey, because other than their fights she doesn't really remember Stevie ever having to fight to get equal treatment either, at least not in their band. or something like that. does that ring a bell?

[button-lip]

what i love the best is when people clearly dislike a single band member, or clearly prefer a single band member, but claim how they love love love all of them as an excuse to be taken seriously in their dumping on whoever they don't like. :laugh:

Haha! I can name quite a few! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[nicepace]

Christine was in the business by herself as the lone female back in the Chicken Shack, Shades, and early FMac days. . She was one of the guys and one tough cookie.

Absolutely. Christine was a real, honest-to-goodness rock 'n' roll pioneer, as the only woman who sang, wrote her own songs, and played an instrument in a mixed-gender band during those years. It has always baffled me that she doesn't get more recognition for this pioneering role.

As you say, as a person, Chris was (is) one tough cookie, and my impression is that in these early bands she was treated by the guys in the band as a musical equal. I think she always knew how to stand up for herself.

By the way, thank you for mentioning Shades of Blue, her pre-Chicken Shack band. Do any recordings exist of that band?

[jbrownsjr]

Absolutely. Christine was a real, honest-to-goodness rock 'n' roll pioneer, as the only woman who sang, wrote her own songs, and played an instrument in a mixed-gender band during those years. It has always baffled me that she doesn't get more recognition for this pioneering role.

As you say, as a person, Chris was (is) one tough cookie, and my impression is that in these early bands she was treated by the guys in the band as a musical equal. I think she always knew how to stand up for herself.

By the way, thank you for mentioning Shades of Blue, her pre-Chicken Shack band. Do any recordings exist of that band?

I'm not sure about Shades of Blue releases. I think that was the band that got her out of window dressing.

[nicepace]

I'm not sure about Shades of Blue releases. I think that was the band that got her out of window dressing.

Thank goodness for that! I don't suppose there are any real releases from that short-lived band, but I was thinking somebody's mother may have taped one of their performances, or something along those lines.

[jbrownsjr]

Thank goodness for that! I don't suppose there are any real releases from that short-lived band, but I was thinking somebody's mother may have taped one of their performances, or something along those lines.

That would be amazing to hear. I think she played bass in that band.

We know should could play strings because of her father and a recent interview where she said the family would sit around on XMAS and play together.

[Mr Scarrott]

I'm not sure about Shades of Blue releases. I think that was the band that got her out of window dressing.

The band was called Sounds of Blue, which I'm proud to say was based in my home town (although before my time) of Stourbridge.

There's a little bit of information here:

http://www.brumbeat.net/chickens.htm

I've often thought about researching this a bit more.

[jbrownsjr]

The band was called Sounds of Blue, which I'm proud to say was based in my home town (although before my time) of Stourbridge.

There's a little bit of information here:

http://www.brumbeat.net/chickens.htm

I've often thought about researching this a bit more.

Sounds of Blue! I knew something seemed off. I would love to hear recordings.

[sue]

The band was called Sounds of Blue, which I'm proud to say was based in my home town (although before my time) of Stourbridge.

There's a little bit of information here:

http://www.brumbeat.net/chickens.htm

I've often thought about researching this a bit more.

Great article, reminds me of my teenage years around Brum, travelling to Walsall, West Brom and Wolverhampton...
I swear that Robert Plant once walked me to my bus (from youth-club) and told me I was a terrible kisser!!!!!
I was only 15..

[jbrownsjr]

Great article, reminds me of my teenage years around Brum, travelling to Walsall, West Brom and Wolverhampton...
I swear that Robert Plant once walked me to my bus (from youth-club) and told me I was a terrible kisser!!!!!
I was only 15..

Now that's a great story!!

[Mr Scarrott]

Great article, reminds me of my teenage years around Brum, travelling to Walsall, West Brom and Wolverhampton...
I swear that Robert Plant once walked me to my bus (from youth-club) and told me I was a terrible kisser!!!!!
I was only 15..

Veering off topic I know, but Robert Plant is still quite often seen in and around Stourbridge, where he went to my old school. He used to gig a lot in the Town Hall way back when. There were three Stourbridge bands that had a fair amount of success in the 90s- Pop will eat itself, Ned's Atomic Dustbin and the Wonder Stuff (Not that I know much about them, sadly...) so there's a bit of a musical tradition for the place. I'm pleased that the Mac has some sort of root there, however briefly...

[nicepace]

This article (and others) identify the band as Shades of Blue. Maybe Chris and the other musicians never settled on a definite name. I doubt that that band existed for very long.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/christine-mcvie-keeps-a-level-head-after-two-decades-in-the-fastlane-19840707