Isn't it a shame

[ViscountViktor]

As I read the Wiki page for the upcoming album and it talks about those Village Recorder sessions, and I think back to 2014 when Chris re-joined the band, there was the world tour and Stevie then even said she'd get in the studio, I can't help but feel sad we never got the Fleetwood Mac album we hoped for. The new album will be great, but it could have been so much more special with the full band, there was so much optimism for what was to come. And now we'll never see that. So sad.

[jwd]

I feel your pain. I believe most of us would've have wanted a proper FM release with all five on board. But at this point I'm just willing to take whatever the members want to give. Solo, duet, or otherwise.

Looking forward to the Buck McVie album and tour, Stevie's video release of her tour, and the FM tour next year. Really, a lot to be thankful for!

[Frankenstein]

It is a shame, but what's done is done.

[Jondalar]

This situation has helped me let go of Stevie. I no longer feel the same way about her. I just see her as a selfish, "whatever happened to Baby" Jane type character. Her timing is horrible and her reasoning sucks.

[HomerMcvie]

This situation has helped me let go of Stevie. I no longer feel the same way about her. I just see her as a selfish, "whatever happened to Baby" Jane type character. Her timing is horrible and her reasoning sucks.

This. All this. Nothing but this. She's so selfish, and unappreciative of the lifestyle THIS BAND gave her. I hope she rots...

[AncientQueen]

I'm incredible sorry to say this, but maybe Stevie had the right idea to sit this one out, considering "In my World"...

If that is the stuff for FM lead singles by now, maybe doing nothing would have been better, career- and legacy wise.
Maybe a strong backing vocal by Chris (and Stevie, if she would have been there, with the famous harmony singing) would have made it a bit better, but since not even Christine is on it, but instead we get another shot at the stupid grunting sounds from 1987 (a mystery - Big Love has never been a big hit or a signature song, and still he insists to put that grunts on again and again, ruining great (Everyone finds out) or modestly decent (In my world) songs), it seems like Lindseys production skills are even worse than already feared. He obviously has no clue about what he is doing and/or a major ego problem.

[FuzzyPlum]

but instead we get another shot at the stupid grunting sounds from 1987 (a mystery - Big Love has never been a big hit or a signature song,


Big Love was a big hit...in fact, one of their biggest.
And yes, it is a signature song (though not in the album format).

[Macfan4life]

We are beating a dead horse but of course its a shame. I never thought in a million years this would have happened. IMHO the last (true) group effort was Mirage with these 5 members. It would have been something so special to get a group effort again after all these years.
But I see this now as the glass half full and positive. We get more Christine songs and get to see Christine and Lindsey in concert. That never would have happened. Chris loves to sing the blues so I expect her to dig out at least one old classic (pre-Buck/Nicks) Mac song to perform for these concerts. That alone just blows my mind and almost makes this whole situation worth it.
There is some irony though. I saw Stevie in concert 2 weeks ago. She kept bragging to the crowd how while Bella Donna was still red hot she dropped everything to go to France with no air conditioning (yes suffer lol) and record with Fleetwood Mac. She said she would never break up Fleetwood mac and told more stories of her sacrificing to record and tour with them.
I just found such irony in her statements. After all she has been through with huge solo success, NOW is the time she declines to record with them. Its just sad especially since Christine came back to the group. Its just plain weird.

[Jondalar]

We are beating a dead horse but of course its a shame. I never thought in a million years this would have happened. IMHO the last (true) group effort was Mirage with these 5 members. It would have been something so special to get a group effort again after all these years.
But I see this now as the glass half full and positive. We get more Christine songs and get to see Christine and Lindsey in concert. That never would have happened. Chris loves to sing the blues so I expect her to dig out at least one old classic (pre-Buck/Nicks) Mac song to perform for these concerts. That alone just blows my mind and almost makes this whole situation worth it.
There is some irony though. I saw Stevie in concert 2 weeks ago. She kept bragging to the crowd how while Bella Donna was still red hot she dropped everything to go to France with no air conditioning (yes suffer lol) and record with Fleetwood Mac. She said she would never break up Fleetwood mac and told more stories of her sacrificing to record and tour with them.
I just found such irony in her statements. After all she has been through with huge solo success, NOW is the time she declines to record with them. Its just sad especially since Christine came back to the group. Its just plain weird.

She is kicking them while they are down and ruining any opportunity for that final album. I always thought they would have that final album. Can't believe she pulls this stunt now. She is sooo selfish.

[SeanJT]

Is it at possible they could still record a proper final Fleetwood Mac album next year? Supposedly, there are dozens of songs, and the new album only has 10. Maybe another album with Stevie, now that she has proven her point? Not holding my breath. but still holding on to hope.

[SisterNightroad]

She is kicking them while they are down
Why do you think Lindsey and Christine are "down"?

[lennonfan]

Is it at possible they could still record a proper final Fleetwood Mac album next year? Supposedly, there are dozens of songs, and the new album only has 10. Maybe another album with Stevie, now that she has proven her point? Not holding my breath. but still holding on to hope.

well John just bought that new house in LA and where is it Village Recorders is located? :)
I can't help but feel there's more in the can and more to come.

[BigAl84]

BEST case scenario they have 6-8 additional songs at an in progress state that they are setting aside for another duets album OR the unlikely event Stevie comes around. There's definitely more songs in the hopper, wasnt the very first batch of songs they started on before the 2013 tour allegedly around 8 or 9 and then more were added when Chris returned?

Or we will see another Lindsey solo album. I'm almost more inclined to think if the duets album does well, he might enjoy working with Christine again. I do think the chances of a mac album with all five has pretty much passed as sad as it is to say.

[AncientQueen]

Big Love was a big hit...in fact, one of their biggest.
And yes, it is a signature song (though not in the album format).
The big hit from Tango was "Little Lies", and while the live version of Big Love is certainly iconic, the album track/single was a headscratcher and not much more back then.

[sue]

I think that once she got over the shock of Christine being back in the fold, Stevie maybe didn't like Chris being back in the band...
Christine is a musician so belonged back in with the boys, Stevie isn't, and never could jam along.
Christine wrote stuff with Lindsey in the past and collaborated with him, Stevie never did.
And even on a more basic point Stevie was no longer the only girl in this club, and was no longer (especially on the 2015 tour) centre of attraction.
..........Just a thought.....

[WatchChain]

I think that once she got over the shock of Christine being back in the fold, Stevie maybe didn't like Chris being back in the band...
Christine is a musician so belonged back in with the boys, Stevie isn't, and never could jam along.
Christine wrote stuff with Lindsey in the past and collaborated with him, Stevie never did.
And even on a more basic point Stevie was no longer the only girl in this club, and was no longer (especially on the 2015 tour) centre of attraction.
..........Just a thought.....

You know, you present a very interesting angle. I actually NEVER thought of this theory. Perhaps Stevie's issue with making new music is NOT totally ONLY with Lindsey. Could there be some resentment with Christine? Maybe some tension began during the tour? Christine probably secretly thinks that Stevie is a drama queen, but tolerates her to save face. Perhaps Stevie felt pushed aside by everyone but Mick, which led to her dismissing herself from new projects. Interesting theory.

[BenWiganUK]

I've always been suspicious of the relationship between Stevie and Christine. No collaboration ever as writers or singing a duet.

They all want their heads banging together. They have given us so little music and yet are happy to regroup for a financially lucrative tour with expensive tickets. Their concerts have become very formulaic. Oh look there's a gold shawl. I think Stevie's going to sing Gold Dust Woman.

But it is a shame that when finally Christine comes back, Stevie disappears.

So are we about to get another album that they won't play live in years to come....Behind the mask, Time, Say you will....

[Jondalar]

I've always been suspicious of the relationship between Stevie and Christine. No collaboration ever as writers or singing a duet.

They all want their heads banging together. They have given us so little music and yet are happy to regroup for a financially lucrative tour with expensive tickets. Their concerts have become very formulaic. Oh look there's a gold shawl. I think Stevie's going to sing Gold Dust Woman.

But it is a shame that when finally Christine comes back, Stevie disappears.

So are we about to get another album that they won't play live in years to come....Behind the mask, Time, Say you will....

You can thank the spoiled Diva for this.

[jbrownsjr]

You can thank the spoiled Diva for this.

Elle???????????????????

[Jondalar]

Elle???????????????????

No Stevie!!

[bombaysaffires]

on the other hand, maybe Stevie is really glad Chris came back.... it's someone/something to keep Lindsey busy, scratch his itch for making new music (I honestly think Lindsey, as individualistic as he is, likes working with a group and having other people's songs to work on. It removes the burden of him having to create/write everything and gives him new challenges in producing other people's work which he seems to love) and lets her off the hook. She may think Chris being back is the best thing to happen for her ever.... :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

No Stevie!!

You need to be more specific. :lol::lol:

[SteveMacD]

The big hit from Tango was "Little Lies", and while the live version of Big Love is certainly iconic, the album track/single was a headscratcher and not much more back then.

"Big Love" was a top-five hit single.

[jbrownsjr]

"Big Love" was a top-five hit single.

It was a great lead off single. To which then Christine's last two hits kept the album moving.

[SisterNightroad]

Honestly Stevie has always only said good things about Christine and Christine has always only said good things about Stevie too, so I don't believe the current situation has anything to do with an alleged rivalry between them at all; furthermore after their reunion Stevie openly expressed the desire to have Christine play a song with her so I don't think they've never collaborated because she didn't want to. She's also never collaborated with John from what I remember, so do we have to assume that it's because they hate each other too?
Probably it has more to do with the fact that either their working or musical styles don't match very well, or possibly both.

[HomerMcvie]

ORRRRRRR, she's just a selfish bi#ch!

[Jondalar]

ORRRRRRR, she's just a selfish bi#ch!

Yeah pretty much 👎

[SisterNightroad]

Orrr you all need to eat a snicker?

[sue]

Honestly Stevie has always only said good things about Christine and Christine has always only said good things about Stevie too, so I don't believe the current situation has anything to do with an alleged rivalry between them at all; furthermore after their reunion Stevie openly expressed the desire to have Christine play a song with her so I don't think they've never collaborated because she didn't want to. She's also never collaborated with John from what I remember, so do we have to assume that it's because they hate each other too?
Probably it has more to do with the fact that either their working or musical styles don't match very well, or possibly both.


No I wasn't meaning that there was any hatred between them, on the contrary they have a deep care for each other.
I did mean, however that Stevie's nose could have been pushed out of joint a little by the return of Christine.
No more, no less.

[jbrownsjr]

Orrr you all need to eat a snicker?

Hershey w/ almonds.

[Macfan4life]

"Big Love" was a top-five hit single.
Yes it was. Its also lost in the heap of lousy lost 80's pop songs. Funny cause you never hear it on the radio today. Classic rock stations who have the Mac in heavy rotation wont play it. I listen to the 80s channel on Sirius-Xm and its rare to hear it. The only songs that get airplay today are Little Lies and Everywhere....usually light rock or adult contemporary stations. The Bridge on Sirius-Xm plays both of them a lot.

[Jondalar]

Yes it was. Its also lost in the heap of lousy lost 80's pop songs. Funny cause you never hear it on the radio today. Classic rock stations who have the Mac in heavy rotation wont play it. I listen to the 80s channel on Sirius-Xm and its rare to hear it. The only songs that get airplay today are Little Lies and Everywhere....usually light rock or adult contemporary stations. The Bridge on Sirius-Xm plays both of them a lot.

This new song is not going to get a lot of airpay.

[FuzzyPlum]

The big hit from Tango was "Little Lies", and while the live version of Big Love is certainly iconic, the album track/single was a headscratcher and not much more back then.


Whilst its true Little Lies has a more enduring legacy, there's little difference between them in terms of their success at the times of their release; Big Love US #5, UK #9 and Little Lies US #4, UK #5. Both very successful.
Your original statement was that Big Love is not a signature song. The one song Lindsey will always be most associated with is Go Your Own Way. However, if ever he appears on a TV programme the one song you can guarantee he will play is Big Love. I'd therefore say Big Love has become Lindsey's out and out signature song (apart from GYOW).

I really don't know what you mean about it being a 'headscratcher'.

[dreamsunwind]

I'm incredible sorry to say this, but maybe Stevie had the right idea to sit this one out, considering "In my World"...

If that is the stuff for FM lead singles by now, maybe doing nothing would have been better, career- and legacy wise.
Maybe a strong backing vocal by Chris (and Stevie, if she would have been there, with the famous harmony singing) would have made it a bit better, but since not even Christine is on it, but instead we get another shot at the stupid grunting sounds from 1987 (a mystery - Big Love has never been a big hit or a signature song, and still he insists to put that grunts on again and again, ruining great (Everyone finds out) or modestly decent (In my world) songs), it seems like Lindseys production skills are even worse than already feared. He obviously has no clue about what he is doing and/or a major ego problem.

This post is extremely amusing because this is entirely your opinion on things which you're entitled to but you're acting as if it's fact. Clearly there's plenty of people who like the song or just think it's okay and don't have the same feelings about it as you do. I'm kind of baffled by why you would say Big Love wasn't a hit. Even my dad remembers that song from the radio back then and he never listened to that type of music much.
And Lindsey is a musician with over four decades of experience and tons and tons of critical acclaim. While I may also not love everything he does in more recent years, to say he "obviously has no clue" what he's doing is ridiculous.

[elle]

If that is the stuff for FM lead singles by now, maybe doing nothing would have been better, career- and legacy wise.

are you seriously thinking that? is every song or album David Bowie or Prince or Stones or McCartney (pick your legendary artist) ever did a masterpiece? bands like Fleetwood Mac have their legacy cemented by now. new stuff is flexing their artistic muscle and whether it sucks or is great, it shows they are still artists with something to say. i may not like this song and i may even end up disliking the whole album, but i'm glad it will be out, we get to hear it, and they can move on to other projects which i might like much better - or not (unlike FM being stifled and sitting on this one since 2012).

But I see this now as the glass half full and positive. We get more Christine songs and get to see Christine and Lindsey in concert. That never would have happened. Chris loves to sing the blues so I expect her to dig out at least one old classic (pre-Buck/Nicks) Mac song to perform for these concerts. That alone just blows my mind and almost makes this whole situation worth it.

all this!! :woohoo: :blob1: :thumbsup:

[dreamsunwind]

You know, you present a very interesting angle. I actually NEVER thought of this theory. Perhaps Stevie's issue with making new music is NOT totally ONLY with Lindsey. Could there be some resentment with Christine? Maybe some tension began during the tour? Christine probably secretly thinks that Stevie is a drama queen, but tolerates her to save face. Perhaps Stevie felt pushed aside by everyone but Mick, which led to her dismissing herself from new projects. Interesting theory.

I think while when it comes to individuals, Lindsey is the problematic one for her, but that's not the only reason. I think she truly wants to feel in charge and in control and comfortable in her environment when she does an album. When she records with Fleetwood Mac, she's technically the least talented out of the 3 writers and probably ends up feeling that she is because she can't play an instrument and her production capabilities are still heavily dependent on other people. It probably hurts the ego a little, which I get. When she does her solo work, SHE'S the boss and she's in charge and she gets to have everything how she wants. Which is understandable imo, but still frustrating.

[elle]

BEST case scenario they have 6-8 additional songs at an in progress state that they are setting aside for another duets album OR the unlikely event Stevie comes around. There's definitely more songs in the hopper, wasnt the very first batch of songs they started on before the 2013 tour allegedly around 8 or 9 and then more were added when Chris returned?

Or we will see another Lindsey solo album. I'm almost more inclined to think if the duets album does well, he might enjoy working with Christine again. I do think the chances of a mac album with all five has pretty much passed as sad as it is to say.

yes, i think there were 8 songs in the first batch back in 2012. 3 went onto EP and 5 on BuckVie. so i think this is that whole set, which i'm glad to have finally out, because at the time Lindsey was saying they were soft-poppy and fleetwood macy to try to lure Stevie to join in. i don't like my LB too soft poppy so i'm glad these will now finally be out. then FM (minus Nicks) recorded 5 more songs since Christine joined in 2014. those are 5 songs that are now listed with either Christine as a sole songwriter, or as Christine-Lindsey collaborations.

Lindsey was working on more songs during 2014-15 tour, i believe. that must be the batch that he's planning to release on his next solo project that has been slated for the end of this year.

after that, there's Mac farewell tour. then after that, who knows? if they continue enjoying McBuck collaboration, maybe we see a new incarnation of FM after they retire this existing one with all 5 in 2019?

judging by his creativity and activities in 2000s, i fully expect Lindsey to have a few more solo albums and tours and maybe some additional side projects with other artists for a good number of years after FM retires.

[StevieandChris]

I do not believe for one second that we won't get another album with all five, unless someone dies. Stevie has never said she won't do another album, just that she does not think they will. I don't think the word never or won't has been used in a direct, verified quote. It is just press and fan speculation. Which was her opinion at the time she was asked, usually while on tour or in between tours. It's part of the drama that surrounds FM and Stevie is not the only one guilty of this.

Though I still don't understand why the haters even want her to participate if they don't even like her voice now! But whatever. This thread is a broken record and I am just adding to it. I guess if someone dies and they can't do another album as FM some fans will want someone to blame, and if they do produce another album the fans who dislike Stevie will want someone to shred.

And now the posts dismissing me as a shipper or Chiffonhead or idiot can begin again since the "cool" thing seems to be to hate Stevie now (both as a musician and as a person) and only worship Lindsey/Christine/Mick/John (all of whom I love btw, and I like the new single and have already pre-ordered the album and can't wait to hear the other songs).

[Jondalar]

I do not believe for one second that we won't get another album with all five, unless someone dies. Stevie has never said she won't do another album, just that she does not think they will. I don't think the word never or won't has been used in a direct, verified quote. It is just press and fan speculation. Which was her opinion at the time she was asked, usually while on tour or in between tours. It's part of the drama that surrounds FM and Stevie is not the only one guilty of this.

Though I still don't understand why the haters even want her to participate if they don't even like her voice now! But whatever. This thread is a broken record and I am just adding to it. I guess if someone dies and they can't do another album as FM some fans will want someone to blame, and if they do produce another album the fans who dislike Stevie will want someone to shred.

And now the posts dismissing me as a shipper or Chiffonhead or idiot can begin again since the "cool" thing seems to be to hate Stevie now (both as a musician and as a person) and only worship Lindsey/Christine/Mick/John (all of whom I love btw, and I like the new single and have already pre-ordered the album and can't wait to hear the other songs).

She did it to herself. Burn witch - burn!

P.S. They will be dying off soon. They are old and God only knows what all the drugs have done to their bodies. The women in Stevie's family live long but I'm sure they didn't snort truckloads of cocaine for years. And John battled cancer.

[FuzzyPlum]

Isn't it a shame?

Yes it is; I've been a Fleetwood Mac fan for 30 years and enjoy listening to the music of all incarnations of the band. I'll admit to being less of a fan of Stevie and her music than I am of either Lindsey or Christine and I am so frustrated by her attitude. I think her ego is detestable.
However I find it pretty sad the number of people calling her all manner of disgusting things. Grown-up men (and quite possibly women too, but mostly men, I think) thinking its funny to write 'burn the witch' and the like. I respect the right to free speech but come on ffs, grow up people and put things into perspective :mad:

[StevieandChris]

She did it to herself. Burn witch - burn!

---No. We all are responsible for choosing how to react to someone or a situation. If we want to post something negative about anyone, it is our decision to do so.

P.S. They will be dying off soon. They are old and God only knows what all the drugs have done to their bodies. The women in Stevie's family live long but I'm sure they didn't snort truckloads of cocaine for years. And John battled cancer.

---Yes, that is true. May they have more years ahead.

[Jondalar]

---Yes, that is true. May they have more years ahead.

She deserves negative posts - no apologies here.

[FuzzyPlum]

She deserves negative posts - no apologies here.

Nothing wrong with negativity. Everyone doesn't have to agree.
There's no need to act like a d!ck about it though.

Edit: moderators: please be aware I am referring to the terminology used as 'dickish' as opposed to labelling anyone in particular as a dick. Thank you.

[Jondalar]

Nothing wrong with negativity. Everyone doesn't have to agree.
There's no need to act like a d!ck about it though.

There is also no need to act like a snowflake...

[button-lip]

I think while when it comes to individuals, Lindsey is the problematic one for her, but that's not the only reason. I think she truly wants to feel in charge and in control and comfortable in her environment when she does an album. When she records with Fleetwood Mac, she's technically the least talented out of the 3 writers and probably ends up feeling that she is because she can't play an instrument and her production capabilities are still heavily dependent on other people. It probably hurts the ego a little, which I get. When she does her solo work, SHE'S the boss and she's in charge and she gets to have everything how she wants. Which is understandable imo, but still frustrating.

I'm sorry but I can't see how is understandable to want to be in control when you KNOW you're the least talented of the group. This happens in every work environment. If you're the least talented or experienced, you don't ask to be in charge. Simple as that.

I can't even understand how she's in charge in her solo work, because probably every person sorrounded her has more musical expertise.

She has every opportunity in her life to learn to play an instrument, yet she opted for the shawls and the twirls and the tambourine. Fine, to each their own. But then you don't ask to be in charge 40 years later. It's not right and it's not healthy for the band.

[button-lip]

P.S. They will be dying off soon. They are old and God only knows what all the drugs have done to their bodies. The women in Stevie's family live long but I'm sure they didn't snort truckloads of cocaine for years. And John battled cancer.

They're still capable of creating another FM album, regardless their age. Unless one of them suffers a sudden death, I don't see any of them dying soon, not even John. His musical skills seem intact, IMO.

BUT, there won't be another album, thanks to guess who?

Mick wants to make a new album
John wants to make a new album
Lindsey wants to make a new album
Christine wants to make a new album
Stevie said a new album won't sell, which means 'no, I don't want to make a new album'.

So, who were we supposed to blame? John Courage?
No, I believe we should blame the only person who searched for excuses. :)

[SisterNightroad]

So, who were we supposed to blame? No, I believe we should blame the only person who searched for excuses.
It's not about blaming, noone here expects everyone having the same opinion, it's about the manner. Personally I think it's cool every reasoned disagreement about anyone and from anyone, what it's not cool is continuous taunting or baiting with insults or sexist remarks.
Lately the board was calming down, I hope it won't start up again.

[SisterNightroad]

This happens in every work environment. If you're the least talented or experienced, you don't ask to be in charge. Simple as that. I can't even understand how she's in charge in her solo work, because probably every person sorrounding her has more musical expertise.
Actually it depends, most good leaders aren't at all the most expert or talented at doing something when it's about creative tasks, they're the ones who knows how to manage work and which people to be surrounded with and to give the right tasks to. Otherwise, if you think about it wouldn't they then just do those tasks themselves? Instead they coordinate and employ others who are more specifically knowledgeable of them but only in a single specific sector, while they have a generalized knowledge that permits them to organize and complete the whole.

This could very probably be the case with Stevie's solo career, where she doesn't know how to exactly achieve the result-song she wants but hires what she deems as the best musicians and staff that do the necessary practical tasks for her and achieve the results she wants.

[jwd]

Actually it depends, most good leaders aren't at all the most expert or talented at doing something when it's about creative tasks, they're the ones who knows how to manage work and which people to be surrounded with and to give the right tasks to. Otherwise, if you think about it wouldn't they then just do those tasks themselves? Instead they coordinate and employ others who are more specifically knowledgeable of them but only in a single specific sector, while they have a generalized knowledge that permits them to organize and complete the whole.

This could very probably be the case with Stevie's solo career, where she doesn't know how to exactly achieve the result-song she wants but hires what she deems as the best musicians and staff that do the necessary practical tasks for her and achieve the results she wants.

DAMN, THAT'S GOOD, REALLY GOOD!!! :thumbsup:

[button-lip]

Actually it depends, most good leaders aren't at all the most expert or talented at doing something when it's about creative tasks, they're the ones who knows how to manage work and which people to be surrounded with and to give the right tasks to. Otherwise, if you think about it wouldn't they then just do those tasks themselves? Instead they coordinate and employ others who are more specifically knowledgeable of them but only in a single specific sector, while they have a generalized knowledge that permits them to organize and complete the whole.

This could very probably be the case with Stevie's solo career, where she doesn't know how to exactly achieve the result-song she wants but hires what she deems as the best musicians and staff that do the necessary practical tasks for her and achieve the results she wants.


I'm a leader in my work group and many, many, many times I have to do things by myself. That doesn't mean I'm a bad leader, it means I'm sorrounded by people who doesn't know how to do the job or doesn't want to learn, and there's nothing I can do about it but do the job myself. But then I don't work in a creative environment.

Yeah, of course, money can buy everything, even talent.

[button-lip]

It's not about blaming, noone here expects everyone having the same opinion, it's about the manner. Personally I think it's cool every reasoned disagreement about anyone and from anyone, what it's not cool is continuous taunting or baiting with insults or sexist remarks.
Lately the board was calming down, I hope it won't start up again.

I never insulted anyone. I'm just frustrated, like many people here. I guess it's good to have many places other than this board to vent.

[andymaycen]

Beyond happy that Nicks won't be on this....McVie and Buckingham are amazing. If they need a third voice...any 3rd grader with no vocal training could out do Nicks

[Nick]

Beyond happy that Nicks won't be on this....McVie and Buckingham are amazing. If they need a third voice...any 3rd grader with no vocal training could out do Nicks

Don't be a dick. Let's keep her name out of this.

[SteveMacD]

Yes it was.
So, then it wasn't really much of a headscratcher. People dug it in 1987 (and the crowd at the Tina Turner show he opened for immediately knew what it was when he started singing.)

Its also lost in the heap of lousy lost 80's pop songs.
So YOU don't like it. That doesn't change the fact it was one of the bigger hits of their career.

[HomerMcvie]

They're still capable of creating another FM album, regardless their age. Unless one of them suffers a sudden death, I don't see any of them dying soon, not even John. His musical skills seem intact, IMO.

BUT, there won't be another album, thanks to guess who?

Mick wants to make a new album
John wants to make a new album
Lindsey wants to make a new album
Christine wants to make a new album
Stevie said a new album won't sell, which means 'no, I don't want to make a new album'.

So, who were we supposed to blame? John Courage?
No, I believe we should blame the only person who searched for excuses. :)
God I love you being here on the Ledge. :wavey:

[button-lip]

God I love you being here on the Ledge. :wavey:

Thaaaaanks! I don't feel it very much lately! :blob1::blob1:

I'm strong, I'm brave, I won't cry! :distress: :xoxo:

[HomerMcvie]

Thaaaaanks! I don't feel it very much lately! :blob1::blob1:

I'm strong, I'm brave, I won't cry! :distress: :xoxo:

Our wagons are circled, and our camp is growing daily!

Thank you for your honest posts!

[Frankenstein]

They're still capable of creating another FM album, regardless their age. Unless one of them suffers a sudden death, I don't see any of them dying soon, not even John. His musical skills seem intact, IMO.

BUT, there won't be another album, thanks to guess who?

Mick wants to make a new album
John wants to make a new album
Lindsey wants to make a new album
Christine wants to make a new album
Stevie said a new album won't sell, which means 'no, I don't want to make a new album'.

So, who were we supposed to blame? John Courage?
No, I believe we should blame the only person who searched for excuses. :)

Bingo. :thumbsup:

[24karatstevie]

Isn't it a shame?

Yes it is; I've been a Fleetwood Mac fan for 30 years and enjoy listening to the music of all incarnations of the band. I'll admit to being less of a fan of Stevie and her music than I am of either Lindsey or Christine and I am so frustrated by her attitude. I think her ego is detestable.
However I find it pretty sad the number of people calling her all manner of disgusting things. Grown-up men (and quite possibly women too, but mostly men, I think) thinking its funny to write 'burn the witch' and the like. I respect the right to free speech but come on ffs, grow up people and put things into perspective :mad:
This. This. And more of this. Maybe I'm biased because I love Stevie with all of my heart, but I also hate seeing people calling her horrible things in every thread. Those who dislike have that right but do we really have to have the constant name calling?

[SisterNightroad]

I never insulted anyone. I'm just frustrated, like many people here. I guess it's good to have many places other than this board to vent.
In fact I haven't said that you in particular have insulted anyone (at least from what I've seen since I'm not always here)
I just said that there are many ways to disagree and there have been instances in the past in which disagreements weren't expressed in a healthy way. It's only normal that people were frustrated by this just like you are frustrated by the musical situation.

I'm a leader in my work group and many, many, many times I have to do things by myself. That doesn't mean I'm a bad leader, it means I'm sorrounded by people who doesn't know how to do the job or doesn't want to learn, and there's nothing I can do about it but do the job myself. But then I don't work in a creative environment.

Yeah, of course, money can buy everything, even talent.
I obviously can't know if you're a bad leader, but it seems you have a dysfunctional work place. Of course there are many different types of leadership and none is the best in absolute terms, but it rather depends on the job, the project in question and both the personality and other qualities of the leader and of the different people involved, hoewever creative environments usually suffer from traditional types of leaderships "Top-Down".

I've personally never believed in the concept that "money can buy everything" and "money can buy talent"; money can buy a "service" or a "performance" but can't buy ideas.

[sue]

I don't mind all the bellyaching about Stevie...
All the blame landing at the poor woman's doorstep..

But I do hope all the negativity turns full circle when they record their last Album and she's on it.
And in fact the first Single is a Stevie song.
Then she should be thanked profoundly and her feet should be kissed.

[button-lip]

In fact I haven't said that you in particular have insulted anyone (at least from what I've seen since I'm not always here)
I just said that there are many ways to disagree and there have been instances in the past in which disagreements weren't expressed in a healthy way. It's only normal that people were frustrated by this just like you are frustrated by the musical situation.

There are many people here who have said worst things about Stevie than me, yet my post seems the most appropriate to set an example. You have quoted me maybe four times since I joined this board. None of them have been to talk or discuss a topic. It's ok, I don't mind but I think you could change your target once in a while.


I obviously can't know if you're a bad leader, but it seems you have a dysfunctional work place. Of course there are many different types of leadership and none is the best in absolute terms, but it rather depends on the job, the project in question and both the personality and other qualities of the leader and of the different people involved, hoewever creative environments usually suffer from traditional types of leaderships "Top-Down".

I've personally never believed in the concept that "money can buy everything" and "money can buy talent"; money can buy a "service" or a "performance" but can't buy ideas.
Maybe I live in a dysfunctional country because I'm not the only one.

Money can buy talent that make people without talent look talented. It's the oldest trick in the book. :wavey:

[ViscountViktor]

Beyond happy that Nicks won't be on this....McVie and Buckingham are amazing. If they need a third voice...any 3rd grader with no vocal training could out do Nicks

But we're not even getting a second voice according to the new single - where are the harmonies?

I see this thread has descended into the usual pro/anti Stevie stuff name calling.

I don't hate Stevie at all and my post wasn't targeted at her - I love her solo work and am thankful for what she has contributed to the band.

I just remember going to my first ever Fleetwood Mac concert - 8th June 2015, Genting Arena, Birmingham. I believe James89 was at the same one. The optimism and euphoria seeing the full band back together, and now this situation. So, so sad.

[SisterNightroad]

There are many people here who have said worst things about Stevie than me, yet my post seems the most appropriate to set an example. You have quoted me maybe four times since I joined this board. None of them have been to talk or discuss a topic. It's ok, I don't mind but I think you could change your target once in a while.
I don't understand what you mean with "set an example"?
I talk online with quite a few people everyday on this board and out and I don't keep track of all of them, so I don't remember these other instances you are talking about; also I can see that you joined exactly a month ago so I don't understand why you feel targeted by the fact that I quoted you four times since then.
The purpose of forums is that of confronting yourself with other people so you should expect other people to answer your posts with a different point of view.
Maybe I live in a dysfunctional country because I'm not the only one.

Money can buy talent that make people without talent look talented. It's the oldest trick in the book. :wavey:
That is possible, I actually live in a country that promotes dysfunctional working situations too, but that doesn't mean that it's right.

It's impossible to make people without talent look talented at least on the long run in my honest opinion, however I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the matter.

[AncientQueen]

The big hit from Tango was "Little Lies", and while the live version of Big Love is certainly iconic, the album track/single was a headscratcher and not much more back then.

This post is extremely amusing because this is entirely your opinion on things which you're entitled to but you're acting as if it's fact. Clearly there's plenty of people who like the song or just think it's okay and don't have the same feelings about it as you do. I'm kind of baffled by why you would say Big Love wasn't a hit. Even my dad remembers that song from the radio back then and he never listened to that type of music much.
And Lindsey is a musician with over four decades of experience and tons and tons of critical acclaim. While I may also not love everything he does in more recent years, to say he "obviously has no clue" what he's doing is ridiculous.
Lot's of people bought Big Love, that does not make it memorable or really good. It sounded dated after 3 months. I the context of TITN success, Big Love was just a starter.
I'm glad that your father remembers that one, but how is that more relevant than what I wrote?

[dontlookdown]

I can't buy into all this manufactured drama.
They're all either pushing 70 or past 70 -- I'm sure they all feel no obligation to anything or anyone at this point. And good for them.
Christine did a Fleetwood Mac album w/o Stevie and Lindsey (Time), Stevie and Christine did one w/o Lindsey, Lindsey and Stevie did one w/o Christine.
So I don't see this as a negative.
The music on the Buckingham McVie album by all reports, is really strong and innovative.
I would have hated to have another situation like Tango In The Night were the bulk of the great songs are from Lindsey and Christine, and Stevie phones in 3 lackluster songs.

Her heart wasn't in it for whatever reason, so -- so be it.
It's probably a healthier project when all three singers start and build the album together from the ground up; rather than Stevie walk in to an almost completed album.

She just did two of what I consider to be some of the strongest albums of her entire career.
Maybe she didn't have enough strong songs to offer; or maybe she just didn't want to obligate herself to studio time and sacrifice the fun of a tour.

But really, who cares? When you're their age, I'm not sure you really belabor drama. You do what you want when you want it -- and it's their gig, not ours, so I'm not going to judge.

Just happy that Lindsey is steering the ship again and releasing more new music.

[tabruns]

I wish Buckingham's vision of a Mac double album had come to fruition. What a great way to go out.

As it is, yes they put this out as a duets album but its only 10 songs. I think they've said they had a lot more in the works. My hope is that they pushed this out as a duets album because they both really wanted to get the music out, but that the additional songs could form the basis of a Mac album once Nicks tires of her solo phase (Nicks always tires of one then goes back to the other, bouncing from band to solo and back again and again).

[tabruns]

Her heart wasn't in it for whatever reason, so -- so be it.
It's probably a healthier project when all three singers start and build the album together from the ground up; rather than Stevie walk in to an almost completed album.

She just did two of what I consider to be some of the strongest albums of her entire career.
Maybe she didn't have enough strong songs to offer; or maybe she just didn't want to obligate herself to studio time and sacrifice the fun of a tour.



I doubt its a case of not having strong songs. I think its def a case of she wanted her "two years off" as she said in a recent interview, so she didn't want to jump right into the studio with Mac after their last tour. This is why I think she may be open to recording with them next year (I hope).

[SteveMacD]

Christine did a Fleetwood Mac album w/o Stevie and Lindsey (Time)
Actually, she did six albums without Stevie and Lindsey (Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, Heroes Are Hard To Find, and Time), not including her session work (Mr. Wonderful/English Rose/Pious Bird Of Good Omen, Then Play On, Kiln House, The Original Fleetwood Mac, and Say You Will).

I don't have an issue with Stevie not participating, I just have an issue with them not calling it what it really is, because it's much more of a Fleetwood Mac album than Say You Will.

[jbrownsjr]

Actually, she did six albums without Stevie and Lindsey (Future Games, Bare Trees, Penguin, Mystery To Me, Heroes Are Hard To Find, and Time), not including her session work (Mr. Wonderful/English Rose/Pious Bird Of Good Omen, Then Play On, Kiln House, The Original Fleetwood Mac, and Say You Will).

I don't have an issue with Stevie not participating, I just have an issue with them not calling it what it really is, because it's much more of a Fleetwood Mac album than Say You Will.

I love her work on the above bolded!! She's been on just about everything.

sans Live in Boston, EP...

[SteveMacD]

I love her work on the above bolded!! She's been on just about everything.

sans Live in Boston, EP...
Really, it was just Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac, Fleetwood Mac In Chicago (which wasn't intended for release), the Boston Tea Party set, Live In Boston, and EP.

[dreamsunwind]

Lot's of people bought Big Love, that does not make it memorable or really good. It sounded dated after 3 months. I the context of TITN success, Big Love was just a starter.
I'm glad that your father remembers that one, but how is that more relevant than what I wrote?

Because that shows it was a hit to some extent? If it was played enough on the radio for someone who never listened to that genre much to remember it sure seems to me that it did well. I don't know what's your idea of a hit, obviously Little Lies was even bigger and more enduring, he also remembers that as well, but the way you said Big Love wasn't a hit I don't think is true. It's entirely your opinion if you think it's not good or if it sounds dated, and there are probably plenty who agree with you but there's also people who don't and who really like that song and who like 80s music and their opinion isn't worth any less than yours.

[WatchChain]

Honestly Stevie has always only said good things about Christine and Christine has always only said good things about Stevie too, so I don't believe the current situation has anything to do with an alleged rivalry between them at all; furthermore after their reunion Stevie openly expressed the desire to have Christine play a song with her so I don't think they've never collaborated because she didn't want to. She's also never collaborated with John from what I remember, so do we have to assume that it's because they hate each other too?
Probably it has more to do with the fact that either their working or musical styles don't match very well, or possibly both.

"10 years ago, she (Stevie) really had her feet on the ground and a great sense of humor. But, now, she seems to have developed, somehow, her own FANTASY WORLD, which I'm not a part of. We don't socialize much."---Christine McVie, Rolling Stone, 1984

[elle]

There are many people here who have said worst things about Stevie than me, yet my post seems the most appropriate to set an example. You have quoted me maybe four times since I joined this board. None of them have been to talk or discuss a topic. It's ok, I don't mind but I think you could change your target once in a while.
sorry you felt targeted, i know what you mean and have noticed that tendency with certain board members. :eek:

you have been unbelievable, funny and balanced breath of fresh air on this board and i hope you know how much most members love having you here! :wavey: :xoxo:

[AncientQueen]

Because that shows it was a hit to some extent? If it was played enough on the radio for someone who never listened to that genre much to remember it sure seems to me that it did well. I don't know what's your idea of a hit, obviously Little Lies was even bigger and more enduring, he also remembers that as well, but the way you said Big Love wasn't a hit I don't think is true. It's entirely your opinion if you think it's not good or if it sounds dated, and there are probably plenty who agree with you but there's also people who don't and who really like that song and who like 80s music and their opinion isn't worth any less than yours.
I was actually there, a longtime fan who bought TiTN the day it came out. Talked about it with friends and other fans, heard opinions, formed my own. Saw the charts, peoples reaction to the video, compared it with the reactions to the other FM singles. It was IMPORTANT to me. So honestly, I am pretty sure that my opinion is more relevant than some random dude's.

[SteveMacD]

I was actually there, a longtime fan who bought TiTN the day it came out. Talked about it with friends and other fans, heard opinions, formed my own. Saw the charts, peoples reaction to the video, compared it with the reactions to the other FM singles. It was IMPORTANT to me. So honestly, I am pretty sure that my opinion is more relevant than some random dude's.

And yet, it's not. :shrug:

[MoonSister75]

And back on topic.....yes isn't it a shame Stevie isn't on the new record (for whatever good reason she has).
We could be discussing how great the new harmonies are, instead of all the arguing :shrug:

[dreamsunwind]

I was actually there, a longtime fan who bought TiTN the day it came out. Talked about it with friends and other fans, heard opinions, formed my own. Saw the charts, peoples reaction to the video, compared it with the reactions to the other FM singles. It was IMPORTANT to me. So honestly, I am pretty sure that my opinion is more relevant than some random dude's.

Well I wasn't actually speaking about my fathers opinion on the song at all, I just said that he was familiar with it so that to me was a sign of how popular the album and those songs were on the radio then. When it came to opinions on the song, I was indeed referring to other fans but thank you anyways for referring to him as some random dude, it's very polite of you.

Either way I don't care, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion and to your own likes and dislikes, I just hate when people act like their opinions and tastes are fact or more important than those of others, because no they're not. And I'm no longer interested in arguing with someone on the internet over this. I hope you have a nice day.

[SisterNightroad]

"10 years ago, she (Stevie) really had her feet on the ground and a great sense of humor. But, now, she seems to have developed, somehow, her own FANTASY WORLD, which I'm not a part of. We don't socialize much."---Christine McVie, Rolling Stone, 1984
I didn't know of that.
But it does remind me of a Tom Petty interview in which he talked about one of the first times he met Fleetwood Mac and Christine asked him to tell Stevie something on her behalf (and on behalf of the band) because he was much more in confidence with Stevie than Christine and the other band members, and he seemed negatively surprised.

[MoonSister75]

Gardening sounds a good idea....
GEneral Election in June.!!!!!!
MY dishwasher just went BANG.!!!!!

But Ken just played Buckingham Mcvie and the sun is out.
WHo gives a toss, enjoy the sun ..

:shocked: OMG I didn't know about this. No radio or internet news for me yet today, just gardening, walking and arguing on here.

Well thanks for letting me know. Yeh right, just enjoy the sun, I have a wall to paint now.

[jbrownsjr]

I didn't know of that.
But it does remind me of a Tom Petty interview in which he talked about one of the first times he met Fleetwood Mac and Christine asked him to tell Stevie something on her behalf (and on behalf of the band) because the was much more in confidence with Stevie than Christine and the other band members, and he seemed negatively surprised.

Explain this, I almost get it..

[SisterNightroad]

Explain this, I almost get it..
I'll see if later I can dig up that same interview, I think there may have been more to that.

[jbrownsjr]

I'll see if later I can dig up that same interview, I think there may have been more to that.

I love reading about Christine. She's so interesting.

[SisterNightroad]

Explain this, I almost get it...

I'll see if later I can dig up that same interview, I think there may have been more to that.

I love reading about Christine. She's so interesting.

I found that it wasn't actually a Tom Petty article but a quote in the last Rolling Stone issue about Stevie:

Petty was once hanging out at a Fleetwood Mac recording session when Christine McVie asked him to suggest a musical change to Nicks. "So I said, 'Well, why don't you just ask her,'" says Petty. "And she goes, 'Oh, you know her so much better than we do,' and I thought, 'That's strange.'"


I wish he had elaborated more about that. However in my opinion that must have happened during the Mirage sessions.

[dreamsunwind]

I found that it wasn't actually a Tom Petty article but a quote in the last Rolling Stone issue about Stevie:

Petty was once hanging out at a Fleetwood Mac recording session when Christine McVie asked him to suggest a musical change to Nicks. "So I said, 'Well, why don't you just ask her,'" says Petty. "And she goes, 'Oh, you know her so much better than we do,' and I thought, 'That's strange.'"


I wish he had elaborated more about that. However in my opinion that must have happened during the Mirage sessions.

Interesting.
Richard said after they got famous, she was the most different because she got really wrapped up in the Rock n Roll star world and was almost impossible to reach.

[SteveMacD]

Interesting.
Richard said after they got famous, she was the most different because she got really wrapped up in the Rock n Roll star world and was almost impossible to reach.

I blame Don Henley.

[button-lip]

I blame Don Henley.

I blame her and only her. It was what she always wanted, IMO. So, I kinda don't blame her. :shrug:

[BombaySapphire3]

I found that it wasn't actually a Tom Petty article but a quote in the last Rolling Stone issue about Stevie:

Petty was once hanging out at a Fleetwood Mac recording session when Christine McVie asked him to suggest a musical change to Nicks. "So I said, 'Well, why don't you just ask her,'" says Petty. "And she goes, 'Oh, you know her so much better than we do,' and I thought, 'That's strange.'"


I wish he had elaborated more about that. However in my opinion that must have happened during the Mirage sessions.

"Well the conversation rings in my head
Well you know me better than I know myself
Will you write this for me
He says no, you write your songs yourself
That made me stronger
It made me hold on to me "

[Lola]

I took my 23 yr old niece to see Stevie in Indy. She's not a fan but likes a few songs. She enjoyed the show esp Moonlight and Edge. She was mostly focused on the camera crew and hoping for a glimpse of us in a DVD, lol.

[dreamsunwind]

IA there's nothing wrong with having young fans, it's a great thing. A lot of them are pretty casual fans though, they hardly know any songs, wear a moon necklace and look at pictures of Stevie in the 70s for the fashion, that's what kinda makes it irritating. They go to the shows and they mostly only know Seven Wonders. I saw once there was a group of those girls and they literally did not sing along to anything except that song.

And what's most is annoying though is when some of the 'Fleetwood Mac fans' who are basically 'Stevie Nicks fans' that mildly tolerate/enjoy Fleetwood Mac use those girls who hardly know anything about Stevie besides Seven Wonders and that picture of her where she's holding the coke wearing sunglasses and say how it's an example of how Stevie is really the main thing that made Fleetwood Mac big. Like...no she's not. Stevie needed Fleetwood Mac just as much as Fleetwood Mac needed Stevie. They're a band that became big because of each member.

[button-lip]

And what's most is annoying though is when some of the 'Fleetwood Mac fans' who are basically 'Stevie Nicks fans' that mildly tolerate/enjoy Fleetwood Mac use those girls who hardly know anything about Stevie besides Seven Wonders and that picture of her where she's holding the coke wearing sunglasses and say how it's an example of how Stevie is really the main thing that made Fleetwood Mac big. Like...no she's not. Stevie needed Fleetwood Mac just as much as Fleetwood Mac needed Stevie. They're a band that became big because of each member.

This! Like, "thanks Stevie for making Fleetwood Mac so big!". :eek::distress:

[24karatstevie]

IA there's nothing wrong with having young fans, it's a great thing. A lot of them are pretty casual fans though, they hardly know any songs, wear a moon necklace and look at pictures of Stevie in the 70s for the fashion, that's what kinda makes it irritating. They go to the shows and they mostly only know Seven Wonders. I saw once there was a group of those girls and they literally did not sing along to anything except that song.

And what's most is annoying though is when some of the 'Fleetwood Mac fans' who are basically 'Stevie Nicks fans' that mildly tolerate/enjoy Fleetwood Mac use those girls who hardly know anything about Stevie besides Seven Wonders and that picture of her where she's holding the coke wearing sunglasses and say how it's an example of how Stevie is really the main thing that made Fleetwood Mac big. Like...no she's not. Stevie needed Fleetwood Mac just as much as Fleetwood Mac needed Stevie. They're a band that became big because of each member.
I agree about some of the casual fans who act like Fleetwood Mac and Stevie is just their favorite thing ever but only know one or two songs. There is so much more than just that. I guess what I was trying to say with my original post is just that I think it's great that young people are exposed to older music. I'm sure there are some who discovered FM/Stevie through the show but then wanted to learn more and then discovered more of their music.

[dreamsunwind]

I'm sure there are some who discovered FM/Stevie through the show but then wanted to learn more and then discovered more of their music.

Yes, IA completely!

[button-lip]

I'm sure there are some who discovered FM/Stevie through the show but then wanted to learn more and then discovered more of their music.

I talk to some of those fans who also love Peter Green era, so yeah, not all of them built a shrine to Stevie once they learnt about FM.

[lennonfan]

I agree about some of the casual fans who act like Fleetwood Mac and Stevie is just their favorite thing ever but only know one or two songs. There is so much more than just that. I guess what I was trying to say with my original post is just that I think it's great that young people are exposed to older music. I'm sure there are some who discovered FM/Stevie through the show but then wanted to learn more and then discovered more of their music.

the amount of later generations that have discovered earlier incarnations of the band is considerable and has been going on for about a half century now:)

[24karatstevie]

There's absolutely nothing embarrassing about it. You have to understand that a few of the Stevie haters are grasping at any and every thing that they can to disrespect her. It's sort of like a bunch of gnats. You swat and swat at them but they never go away because they have no life outside of pestering you. The funny thing is that I was at three of Stevie's concerts for this tour and I didn't see 30% of any one age group. It was a wonderful mix of young, old and those of us in between. Personally, I would like to see Lindsey and Chris try to bring in some younger fans too. It's what keeps the music alive, after all. I have a twelve year old daughter and she loves Fleetwood Mac.....or Stevie and those other people, as she calls them!!!! As for American Horror Story, we've watched each and every season and love them all.
I went to two of Stevie's shows this tour and I agree, lots of people both old and young! I love that Stevie's music really transcends generations. I had a funny occurrence in Memphis when an older woman near me asked how I knew all of Stevie's songs since I looked so young. Haha I must have been jamming pretty hard for her to notice :lol: