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[Ledge Moderators]

A few advisements for a peaceful cohexistence:


Remember to always respect other users, the board and the moderators.
Please resolve any eventual personal quarrel (as in "opinion wars" lead through a barrage of posts that don’t concern the forum) via private electronic mail correspondence with the concerned party.
Try to add a “In my opinion…”, “I (don’t) think/believe…” or “It should be…” to your posts when you deem it appropriate, it can prevent many unnecessary misunderstandings.

[ViscountViktor]

8th June: General Election here in the UK.

Politics never stops does it! Expect to see Labour wiped out and May and the Conservatives get an increased majority. Scotland will be really interesting to watch as well, whether the SNP do better or worse than last time and the implications for independence.

[FuzzyPlum]

Shrewd move by Theresa May. I reckon Labour's seats could be cut to somewhere between 150-200. The biggest winners apart from the Conservatives will be the Liberal Democrats- I think they'll significantly increase their share of the votes and pick up an extra dozen or so seats (including Vince Cable who will stand near to me in Twickenham again). Conservatives might take a couple of extra seats in Scotland but I'd expect SNP to keep most of their huge majority. Scotland will be interesting though.
In general I think a major wipe out would be quite good in a sense for Labour- they need an excuse and an opportunity to get rid of Corbyn. Probably better to get it over and done with now rather than limping along for another few years. On average bookies are offering odds of 1/14 for a Conservative win and one bookie is even going as far as 1/20. Brexit, Trump... no chance of an upset with this one, surely.

[MoonSister75]

​I don't think anyone can be certain of anything after what happened last year. I personally think the current Brexit team is a total disaster so I'm praying for some kind of change :angel:

Thanks to the moderation team for reinstating these threads. I hope it remains reasonably peaceful in here.

[ViscountViktor]

ITV doing a debate without May - good on them.

[FuzzyPlum]

...just as I said; a tight election with a hung Parliament :rolleyes:

[sue]

Hung Parliament with all the uncertainty that brings....
and the possibility of another EU referendum???

Ps....could Mrs May stop having her hair cut, she looks like a Viking warrior.

[MoonSister75]

...just as I said; a tight election with a hung Parliament :rolleyes:
:laugh: ;)

​Well I'm over the moon with the result - I'm a big supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, and gaining 41% of the vote from where they were weeks ago, is just amazing! Politics of hope.

Yes things are uncertain with a hung parliament, but nothing could be worse (IMHO) than a far right Conservative brexit team with a hugely increased majority.

Great news for this country - well done the great British public. After a heavy year, everything feels a little lighter today, at least to me.

Weak, wobbly, arrogant Theresa May :shrug: oh dear....

[sue]

:laugh: ;)

​Well I'm over the moon with the result - I'm a big supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, and gaining 41% of the vote from where they were weeks ago, is just amazing! Politics of hope.

Yes things are uncertain with a hung parliament, but nothing could be worse (IMHO) than a far right Conservative brexit team with a hugely increased majority.

Great news for this country - well done the great British public. After a heavy year, everything feels a little lighter today, at least to me.

Weak, wobbly, arrogant Theresa May :shrug: oh dear....

Here, here....well said.....could NOT believe the exit poll.
So much so I had to stay up till 3am.
The trouble is, as you say, arrogant May I think she'll plough on with her
bloody hard brexit regardless.
Unless she is pushed during the summer recess.

[MoonSister75]

Here, here....well said.....could NOT believe the exit poll.
So much so I had to stay up till 3am.
The trouble is, as you say, arrogant May I think she'll plough on with her
bloody hard brexit regardless.
Unless she is pushed during the summer recess.

I'm not really not sure what will happen with Brexit now, but something has to happen, and for some reason I feel much more positive about it today.

Yes the exit poll made it a very exciting night. I'd planned to watch an hour or 2, but I also turned the TV off at 3am. Then found I couldn't sleep and wanted to know what was happening, so got up again and watched until 5am.

I'm not really sure how Theresa May can now stay on as PM in the long term, but maybe she will. I'm just glad she's not in an even more powerful position, and that Labour now have a big increase in MPs. Personally I just feel it's important for Brexit that there is more of a shared power between the parties (although I realise many others would disagree with me)​

And I just have to mention again - Jeremy Corbyn!! What a star that man is :xoxo:

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm not really not sure what will happen with Brexit now, but something has to happen, and for some reason I feel much more positive about it today.

Yes the exit poll made it a very exciting night. I'd planned to watch an hour or 2, but I also turned the TV off at 3am. Then found I couldn't sleep and wanted to know what was happening, so got up again and watched until 5am.

I'm not really sure how Theresa May can now stay on as PM in the long term, but maybe she will. I'm just glad she's not in an even more powerful position, and that Labour now have a big increase in MPs. Personally I just feel it's important for Brexit that there is more of a shared power between the parties (although I realise many others would disagree with me)​

And I just have to mention again - Jeremy Corbyn!! What a star that man is :xoxo:


Have to disagree... worst possible result for the country with regards to Brexit negotiations. May can't step down now. The whole point of having an election was because she was an unelected Prime Minister. If she steps down we'd be back in the same position and facing the possibility of another election sooner rather than later. Anyway, if she steps down the successor is likely to be...Boris!

Jeremy Corbyn... a star? Hmmm. I'm sure all those ex-shadow cabinet ministers that felt they couldn't work for him will disagree. Nice bloke but couldn't lead a party out of Hampton Court maze.

[MoonSister75]

Have to disagree... worst possible result for the country with regards to Brexit negotiations. May can't step down now. The whole point of having an election was because she was an unelected Prime Minister. If she steps down we'd be back in the same position and facing the possibility of another election sooner rather than later. Anyway, if she steps down the successor is likely to be...Boris!

Jeremy Corbyn... a star? Hmmm. I'm sure all those ex-shadow cabinet ministers that felt they couldn't work for him will disagree. Nice bloke but couldn't lead a party out of Hampton Court maze.

I think we'll just have to disagree on this one. He ran an incredible 6 week campaign with an incredible result that almost no one predicted. It also showed clearly just how dreadful Theresa May is as a leader, and how she can't be trusted. From all the interviews I have seen with his ministers they seem to be fully behind him and admitting they were wrong in their judgement.
It should be an interesting time to see what happens from here.

[sue]

It doesn't matter what you think of Corbyn, personally, but he has proven he can fight a good campaign and lead his party from the front.
He definitely got on a roll that people joined.

At the start of the campaign when the election was called, by Mrs May, the Conservatives held an 18 percent lead over Labour.
When all the results were in this morning, that lead had been shrunk to 2.4 percent.

So, lead his party out of Hampton Court maze.....mmmm.
I think the above figures answer that.

[AlexD]

Do any of you in either the U.K. or France feel as if Western Civilization is being threatened by the mass immigration of Muslims into your country? It seems as if every month we see a new #Prayfor[Fill in the blank] trending because of a new radical Islamic terroirist attack in Europe. As an America , it is very sad to see this happening to other Western Civilization countries. A lot of us here want to do something about it, but unfortunately the people who run the country are pushing for this to happen to us.

[FuzzyPlum]

Do any of you in either the U.K. or France feel as if Western Civilization is being threatened by the mass immigration of Muslims into your country? It seems as if every month we see a new #Prayfor[Fill in the blank] trending because of a new radical Islamic terroirist attack in Europe. As an America , it is very sad to see this happening to other Western Civilization countries. A lot of us here want to do something about it, but unfortunately the people who run the country are pushing for this to happen to us.

No. Do Americans feel US civilisation is threatened by the constant mass shootings and general gun crime that seems to occur on a daily basis over there? I feel much, much, much safer here.

[AlexD]

No. Do Americans feel US civilisation is threatened by the constant mass shootings and general gun crime that seems to occur on a daily basis over there? I feel much, much, much safer here.

The overwhelming majority of gun crime in the US comes from people acquiring weapons illegally. On top of that, the sad truth is a huge percentage of the crimes are minorities killing each other in areas that the majority of America will never step foot in. Literally minutes before I checked the ledge, I see another attempted suicide bombing in Brussels happened. These attacks are happening in regular areas that you could easily be in like subway stations and airports. It's much different than the gun violence here that's happening in some ghetto corner of America. Guess which European country has not had a single Muslim terrors attack? Poland. Guess how many refugees they've let in? Zero. It's so pathetic to see this happening and have people like you basically normalizing it. Terror is not "part of living in a big city". It's not hard to find out why this is happening.

[FuzzyPlum]

Don't you dare accuse me of normalising it. There is nothing at all normal with terrorism. It is deeply saddening and disgusting that it happens. You asked what people in the UK and France think and feel and my honest response is I think I feel safer in the UK than if I lived in the states. Gun crime is at ridiculous levels in the US. More people are shot dead by your police in one month than all the people shot dead by British police... ever. More people were killed in a single nightclub attack than in all terror attacks in the UK in the last 10 years combined. This is not, on the whole an unsafe place to be compared to your country.

[jbrownsjr]

Great debate is fine guys/gals... but, let's keep it civil and attack the issues.

[AlexD]

Great debate is fine guys/gals... but, let's keep it civil and attack the issues.

Thank you!

[MoonSister75]

I believe it's much more complex than extremist terrorism only being a product of immigration. Many of the attackers have been born ​and brought up in the country of the attack, but have been radicalised by dangerous extremist ideology. The last attack here was by a white extreme racist, who probably had mental health problems. Another attack was by a man of a mixed race/African descent who had converted to radical Islam. Mental health and social problems play a huge role in what's happening over here.

Also I don't think the Brexit vote and recent elections have helped, as it's divided the country even more and lead to more hate crime. The internet is also a huge problem when it comes to radicalisation. And then you have the age old issues of the wars in the middle east and the involvement of West leading to resentments building up, and the messed up ideology of radical Islam and ISIS.

I really don't think these attacks will stop if you shut the borders. I don't believe it's the answer and could make the situation worse by breeding more hatred and intolerance. We need to get to the roots of the problems of radicalisation, social issues in our own countries and the relationships Western countries have with those in the Middle East.

Just my opinion and I don't want to get involved in any arguments

[MoonSister75]

And as for the suggestion that mass immigration of Muslims is the problem - I don't believe there is mass immigration of Muslims - I'd have to see the figures. And very importantly Islam is a peaceful religion - and a completely different thing to radical extremist Islam.

Hate and intolerance breeds more hate and violence...


edit.. just spotted an article that discusses these issues for anyone interested

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/21/us-and-them-extremism-terror-attacks

[sue]

I agree with Moonsister, a lot of the terror issues have been carried out by 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims...
Muslims make up only 5% of the UK population, hardly mass immigration.

A false view of the terror is held just as we probably have a false view of the gun problems in the US....it seems to us that a mass shooting occurs every other month and not in ghettos but schools and malls.

[MoonSister75]

I agree sue, false views are easily perpetuated by the media. I just think the whole mix of terror events, Western-middle east conflict, extreme Islam and hate crime is so ​complex, the answer doesn't lie in just putting a stop to immigration of one group.

On a lighter note. I know we are not all fans of Jeremy Corbyn in this thread, and not in agreement about whether he is a "star" but I just wanted to share these wonderful Glastonbury photos. Apparently he drew a bigger crowd than the Rolling Stones when they played a few years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/gallery/2017/jun/24/corbyn-receives-heros-welcome-at-glastonbury-2017-in-pictures

[sue]

I agree sue, false views are easily perpetuated by the media. I just think the whole mix of terror events, Western-middle east conflict, extreme Islam and hate crime is so ​complex, the answer doesn't lie in just putting a stop to immigration of one group.

On a lighter note. I know we are not all fans of Jeremy Corbyn in this thread, and not in agreement about whether he is a "star" but I just wanted to share these wonderful Glastonbury photos. Apparently he drew a bigger crowd than the Rolling Stones when they played a few years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/gallery/2017/jun/24/corbyn-receives-heros-welcome-at-glastonbury-2017-in-pictures

I haven't seen Jezza's clip yet, but I agree he is a star in the ascendancy.

Ps have just watched his clip....huge crowds

[FuzzyPlum]

USA.
Your great leader is a complete and utter tosser!
Sorry, but his latest dickish tweets make me so angry.

[ViscountViktor]

Another mass shooting.

I don't understand why you don't just ban guns.

[Sapphire Girl]

Another mass shooting.

I don't understand why you don't just ban guns.

And a criminal is going to abide by this because...?

[iamnotafraid]

I don't understand why you don't just ban guns.


Can we ban mental illness?

[FuzzyPlum]

Donald 'Moron' Trump has conflated rising UK crime rates with Islamic terrorism. Though we cannot be proud of rising crime rates there are absolutely no grounds for blaming Muslims. This Islamophobic tw*t is a complete embarrassment. The guy has an IQ of a child and an EQ of a house brick.

[sue]

Donald 'Moron' Trump has conflated rising UK crime rates with Islamic terrorism. Though we cannot be proud of rising crime rates there are absolutely no grounds for blaming Muslims. This Islamophobic tw*t is a complete embarrassment. The guy has an IQ of a child and an EQ of a house brick.

I think you have to take Trump with a pinch (spadeful) of salt....
He is sort of funny ...if he wasn’t President,
Who governs by Tweet for God’s sake.?
However he was democratically elected, and we have to respect our American friends choice of President...don’t we?

[Jondalar]

I think you have to take Trump with a pinch (spadeful) of salt....
He is sort of funny ...if he wasn’t President,
Who governs by Tweet for God’s sake.?
However he was democratically elected, and we have to respect our American friends choice of President...don’t we?

First time I voted Republican was for Trump and am so glad I did. He can tweet his his butt off!

[sue]

First time I voted Republican was for Trump and am so glad I did. He can tweet his his butt off!

Well, he certainly tweets through it.....🤐🤐🤐🤐

[iamnotafraid]

Domestic abuse never really does. Neither does sexual assault unless you're a judge from Alabama with a predilection for teenage girls. Just sayin'.

Don't forget the President from Arkansas (and his enabler),
then Al Franken Senator for Minnesota. Alabama has hardly
got the market cornered on such - just sayin'.

Bad time to be a man says Barry.

[Jondalar]

Don't forget the President from Arkansas (and his enabler),
then Al Franken Senator for Minnesota. Alabama has hardly
got the market cornered on such - just sayin'.

Bad time to be a man says Barry.

How about a Kennedy who gets drunk and leaves a woman drowning in a vehicle or a president who gets blow jobs from interns and rapes women.

[HomerMcvie]

I say, let's kill ALL MEN!

White men to the front of the line! Retribution, biotches! :sorry::xoxo:

[gldstwmn]

Don't forget the President from Arkansas (and his enabler),
then Al Franken Senator for Minnesota. Alabama has hardly
got the market cornered on such - just sayin'.

Bad time to be a man says Barry.

Oh I'm not saying it knows party or even gender lines. Roy Moore was the first example that popped into my head. It does seem to be far more prevalent in those with a penis though. Let's face it. They've had and still have the advantage.
Another big one bit the dust this morning, Matt Lauer. I'd imagine some people's balls are starting to shrivel at this point so to speak.

[gldstwmn]

How about a Kennedy who gets drunk and leaves a woman drowning in a vehicle or a president who gets blow jobs from interns and rapes women.

Yeah. That's just as bad as advocating violence against women. What's your point?

[gldstwmn]

I say, let's kill ALL MEN!

White men to the front of the line! Retribution, biotches! :sorry::xoxo:

And yet OJ Simpson got away with murder. Nope.

[Jondalar]

Yeah. That's just as bad as advocating violence against women. What's your point?

My point is they moralistic Democrats. Hollywood and Democrats always sit in judgement of everybody but they are the biggest pervs.

[bombaysaffires]

Another mass shooting.

I don't understand why you don't just ban guns.

by another white, male, Christian.

We should ban them from coming to the US.

[Dr.Brown]

by another white, male, Christian.

We should ban them from coming to the US.

True that he was a white male, but this whack job had been jailed for domestic abuse and deliberately targeted his relatives and others at a Christian Church.

He wasn't doing this in the name of God, unlike Radical Islamic Terrorists who do such things as storming into a Church and beheading an elderly Priest during Mass while shouting "Allah Akbar".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kju4CYIFKcM

[HomerMcvie]

There's a heartbeat and you never really die

Except for the poor baby that she killed.

[Macfan4life]

Except for the poor baby that she killed.
Don't you believe that line is about that?

[TheWildHeart67]

Except for the poor baby that she killed.
Homer, so you are against abortion, or just in Stevie's case?
I wonder if the baby would have been born with medical issues after being conceived when both Stevie ans Don were on massive amounts of drugs.?
I never thought about that until just now.

[bwboy]

Is this board no longer being moderated?

[Dr.Brown]

Don't you believe that line is about that?

Makes sense, plus she also seems to revisit her experience in the song Goodbye Baby. The lyrics are pretty heartbreaking. :(

Don't take me to the tower
And take my child away
It was I who was
The hourglass
And the sands of time like
Shattering glass went past me
Like a tunnel to the sea

And I who went to sleep as two
Woke up as one now only you remain
You'll close your eyes and travel back
To the time when the light went fading fast
And the words you'll never, never forget, oh no
As you slipped away

Goodbye baby
I hope your heart's not broken
Don't forget me
Yes I was outspoken
You were with me all the time
I'll be with you one day

And I who went to sleep in tears
Woke up in tears, for all of the years
And I who never, never said goodbye
As I slipped away

Goodbye baby
I hope your heart's not broken
Don't forget me
Yes I was outspoken
You were with me all the time
I'll be with you one day

Goodbye baby
I hope your heart's not broken
Don't forget me
Yes I was outspoken
You were with me all the time
I'll be with you one day

Yes, I'll be with you one day

[iamnotafraid]

I thought President Trump gave an excellent State
Of The Union speech tonight. One of his best so far.

[JohnL]

[QUOTE=iamnotafraid;1220294]I thought President Trump gave an excellent State
Of The Union speech tonight. One of his best so far.[/QUOT

Yeah, especially the part where he said "Puerto Rico we love you" and then cut off aid to them that very same day. The man is a self serving pig. And now with the release of the altered FBI memo, he is hopefully sealing his own fate. Next up he will try to fire Mueller. OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!!

[Dr.Brown]

Sorry, the obstruction of justice lies in a purely partisan witch hunt as revealed in the released, unredacted memo. I never thought I'd see McCarthyism return, let alone from the left!:shocked:

[HomerMcvie]

Homer, so you are against abortion, or just in Stevie's case?
I wonder if the baby would have been born with medical issues after being conceived when both Stevie ans Don were on massive amounts of drugs.?
I never thought about that until just now.

Sorry, I don't visit Chit Chat much anymore, and didn't see this.

No, I'm not against abortion(and I was adopted, born pre Roe vs Wade, so it's quite possible I might have been aborted).

I might worry that the drugs they were doing might have affected the baby, but I'd be more worried about the child's outcome, after being raised by two complete narcissists. Can you IMAGINE what a spoiled BRAT that kid would be?

[Macfan4life]

Sorry, the obstruction of justice lies in a purely partisan witch hunt as revealed in the released, unredacted memo. I never thought I'd see McCarthyism return, let alone from the left!:shocked:
Rule 1: Never bring logic into the Chit chat section
McCarthyism is deep state conspiracy with lists and memos of conspirators
Before you use a term you should know what it means ;)

[FuzzyPlum]

I see the mop-haired dope criticized our single payer National Health Service in a tweet today. More great international diplomacy from the orange one. He really has no clue. So dim. SAD!

[JohnL]

I see the mop-haired dope criticized our single payer National Health Service in a tweet today. More great international diplomacy from the orange one. He really has no clue. So dim. SAD!

:thumbsup:

We have become a laughing stock to the rest of the world. The man says one day that we all need to come together and work for the benefit of each other (in a scripted speech)...and the next day the real Trump comes out and accuses anyone who didnt applaud during his farce of a speech of treason. We will see who the treasonous one is on the end. The man has to be removed from office.

[iamnotafraid]

...treason...

The man has to be removed from office.


Think about that for a moment.

[becca]

I dunno, if you are against Trump's name-calling it doesn't really fit to use name-calling yourself, or criticizing his hair do (or don't as the case might be). I think it just feeds the pointless us vs. them thing, at least to some extent.

I think the U.S. needs at least two parties to continue any claim of democracy. It sure seems like some people totally forget that... I wonder sometimes if what the fanatic wants is one party? Well, that's what the communist countries have, so why don't you just go there? Even as a Canadian I want a healthy and yes, strong, United States, and that means a healthy Republican party and a healthy Democratic party. I used to think maybe you could have used a third party or even a fourth that would stick around, but like gun control, if it hasn't happened at this point then I'd say the people have spoken and chosen. Both Perot and Nader were vilified by different agenda groups, so not gonna happen anytime again soon I'm thinking. So now how do the two parties attract stable maybe boring and middle of the road types that will be able to work with others? I'm thinking the most Canadian preferred prezes you've had would be Eisenhower and on the other 'side' Obama. I suspect though that Obama is too recent to induce yawns and wonder about what the fuss was about, but I predict one day he will be seen as one of your most boringly competent Chiefs. You know, just do the job. Unfortunately I have seen really qualified and boring candidates just don't get very far, big sigh! Bill Bradley lost to Bill Clinton? I never understood that one, how could I possibly comprehend Dubya over McCain or even Reagan over Bush Sr.?

You are a mysterious people, often even to yourselves I think. I am often thrown in with you through friends, family, work, but just because someone seems to represent something I agree with does not mean I am ever going to wave banners, wear hats or buy into the brand all the way. Wherever that kind of thing comes from I am happy to have it stay a mystery. And I still say i think you need better conflict of interest laws, maybe then you could've weeded out wounding candidates like The Hillary and The Donald early on. That I can tell you, believe me.:)

:wavey: Well, that's my 1.6 cents Canadian worth for the year. As Bob Dobbs said "Give slack. Get slack." It's still good advice I find.

[becca]

Think about that for a moment.
Thinking? When people can just react? When experts can be brought in to 'talk about it'?

[JohnL]

Think about that for a moment.

Are you saying because of who the next in line is? I hope and pray that, if Trump is really guilty of this Russian collusion, then Pence will go with him. I know...then we are stuck with Ryan but I think he is the lesser of all the evils. It just sucks that our choices are so bad. The last election has brought the US political election process to its lowest point ever. I know I am probably dreaming that Trump will be removed from office but one can always dream.

[jbrownsjr]

:thumbsup:

We have become a laughing stock to the rest of the world. The man says one day that we all need to come together and work for the benefit of each other (in a scripted speech)...and the next day the real Trump comes out and accuses anyone who didnt applaud during his farce of a speech of treason. We will see who the treasonous one is on the end. The man has to be removed from office.

I'm waiting for him to take credit for the stock market dip. Since, he has been pounding his chest that because of him it's been rising.

[JohnL]

I'm waiting for him to take credit for the stock market dip. Since, he has been pounding his chest that because of him it's been rising.

You know that will never happen. He believes that his actions only have positive impacts. God that was hard to even type. The man makes me physically ill. LOL

[Jondalar]

You know that will never happen. He believes that his actions only have positive impacts. God that was hard to even type. The man makes me physically ill. LOL

No - that’s not it. Since day 1 the liberal media and Democrats have criticized him constantly. Anything bad that happens is his fault. They refuse to give him credit for anything. Their trying to find a way to impeach him. He has to stand up for himself and let people know he not going to be a punching bag.

[FuzzyPlum]

No - that’s not it. Since day 1 the liberal media and Democrats have criticized him constantly. Anything bad that happens is his fault. They refuse to give him credit for anything. Their trying to find a way to impeach him. He has to stand up for himself and let people know he not going to be a punching bag.


And GOP never criticized Obama constantly from day 1 did they???
It's difficult to think of much to give Don credit for.
The man really is a child. A very dim child.

[Jondalar]

And GOP never criticized Obama constantly from day 1 did they???
It's difficult to think of much to give Don credit for.
The man really is a child. A very dim child.

We are talking about the media, Hollywood, Democrats and the Deep State making a conserted effort to impeach a president from day 1. The public is just barraged by negative news on a daily basis. The Democrats stole the nomination from their best candidate, nominated a weaker candidate and lost the election but they don’t want to take any responsibility for losing. Instead they are just going to put this country through hell over their own stupidity. Trying to steal back the presidency through any means necessary.

Trump has to tell the public what he is doing. The media (except Fox News) will always put him down. Trump is a fighter. He is not going to let them just run over him.

[JohnL]

No - that’s not it. Since day 1 the liberal media and Democrats have criticized him constantly. Anything bad that happens is his fault. They refuse to give him credit for anything. Their trying to find a way to impeach him. He has to stand up for himself and let people know he not going to be a punching bag.

Then maybe he should stop giving them so much ammunition on a daily basis? The man tweets constantly without thinking of the impact it will have on us as a country and as a supposedly United States. He isnt being used as a punching bag. He is a wind bag that needs to be removed!! And dont even get me started on his protection of Russia above all else. He has not imposed the sanctions voted on by Congress and he slams every single person around him for looking at him cross-eyed except for Russia.

[Jondalar]

Then maybe he should stop giving them so much ammunition on a daily basis? The man tweets constantly without thinking of the impact it will have on us as a country and as a supposedly United States. He isnt being used as a punching bag. He is a wind bag that needs to be removed!! And dont even get me started on his protection of Russia above all else. He has not imposed the sanctions voted on by Congress and he slams every single person around him for looking at him cross-eyed except for Russia.

I guess the world loved Obama because he went on an apology tour and gave them more of our jobs. Thank god Trump puts this country first. Twitter helped get him elected. At the very least it shows he paying attention to current topics. As far as Russia is concerned, it’s crap created by the Democrats so they don’t have to take responsibility for making bad choices and losing the election. Trump is not protecting Russia. He is just not following the Democrats narrative because they are saying he colluded with Russia and he knows that is crap. Besides that, why would he do what Democrats wanted him to do when they are trying to steal an election. And some Republicans like Lindsey Graham and John McCain really act like Democrats and want him gone too. Even if he did it wouldn’t matter, they are going to try and impeach him no matter what.

[jwd]

Tax cut! YES!

[Macfan4life]

Tax cut! YES!
Tax cuts are great but I fear this is the wrong time. The national debt is now over 20 trillion and counting. Soon the largest percent of or GNP will be interest on the debt. The debt is expected to grow to 22 trillion by the end of Trump's first term. It was 9 trillion in 2008 and 11 trillion by 2011. Republicans only care about spending when democrats are in the white house. On the flip side democrats only care about the debt and raising the debt ceiling when republicans are in the White House. Each party is leading to the demise of the United States. Debt is what has destroyed great empires over the centuries. Tax cuts are supposed to be given during a recession to spur economic growth. In 2009 the democrats and Obama did the opposite and spent a trillion dollars on "stimulus." Tax cuts should have happened then. Now that the economy has some legs is the time to cut spending. This tax cut could actually hurt the economy by over-heating it. The market is already falling because of higher interest rates and inflation. When the next recession happens there would be anything to jump start the economy since the taxes were already cut. If you are not living in your means why dont you cut spending if you are reducing revenue? There is no way any country can sustain a 22 trillion dollar debt. In 50 years when world historians look at the demise of the United States they will look at the foolish spending of Congress and presidents of both parties 2000-2018. The world will dump dollars and look to other currencies. All of this spending is coming off a printing press at the Federal Reserve that needs paid back with interest. All great countries who have done this (printing money to finance spending) have crashed and burned. By 2027 China will be the world's sole superpower.

[SisterNightroad]

We have become a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
Not anymore, now it's our turn again.

<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LdhQzXHYLZ4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[FuzzyPlum]

Not anymore, now it's our turn again.


No, I'd say the US still wins.
For every 'Last Week Tonight' that's about Italy John Oliver has done about 50 taking the p!ss out of this sorry Trump presidency.
Italy doesn't come close to the US at the moment as far as laughing stock is concerned, though laughing is still difficult at the moment with recent events over there.

[Jondalar]

No, I'd say the US still wins.
For every 'Last Week Tonight' that's about Italy John Oliver has done about 50 taking the p!ss out of this sorry Trump presidency.
Italy doesn't come close to the US at the moment as far as laughing stock is concerned, though laughing is still difficult at the moment with recent events over there.

What right does Europe have to laugh at anyone? Look at Sweden, Germany, France and Great Britain. Look what their policies have done to their own people. Laughing stock??? Take a look in the mirror. No one wants to end up like you. Your nutty political correctness is killing your people right and left. No wonder people are rejecting the cult of globalism.

There is no blinder man then one with a mission. That goes for countries too. You don’t care enough for your people to use common sense.

As far as American laughing stocks are concerned, look at the nutty Democratic Party with its 150 genders, Sanctuary Cities, and people who want noncitizens to have voting rights.... a party that is supposed to stand for freedom of speech but will beat you up if you don’t say what they like.... they’ve got splinters in the windmills of their mind..... off the deep end.... batt shiiiittt crazzzy....

It’s like I’m watching some crazy sitcom filled with lunatics.

[SisterNightroad]

No, I'd say the US still wins.
For every 'Last Week Tonight' that's about Italy John Oliver has done about 50 taking the p!ss out of this sorry Trump presidency.
Italy doesn't come close to the US at the moment as far as laughing stock is concerned, though laughing is still difficult at the moment with recent events over there.
Well, let's wait and see who wins before saying that.
I guess I guess since you aren't Italian it's not as much awful to you, but this Sunday I'll have to vote and for the umpteenth time there's not even ONE party or candidate I have the desire to vote for, and on top of that they made the votation in such a twisted manner that a lot of the voters will probably end up having their vote annulled because they didn't sign in the right manner.
While I am aware that John Oliver's program is just satire and not real information, much of what it's said there it's true even if it's presented in an amusing fashion and there are a few inaccuracies, and it's just the tip of the iceberg (the scandal of the "ineligibles" God).

[FuzzyPlum]

What right does Europe have to laugh at anyone? Look at Sweden, Germany, France and Great Britain. Look what their policies have done to their own people. Laughing stock??? Take a look in the mirror. No one wants to end up like you. Your nutty political correctness is killing your people right and left. No wonder people are rejecting the cult of globalism.

Ha ha ha. You been watching Sean Hannity again?
Come on, have you ever been to Europe? You have absolutely no clue.
What you are typing is absolute garbage. Complete and utter tosh. Laughable. Ha ha.

[Macfan4life]

Ha ha ha. You been watching Sean Hannity again?
Come on, have you ever been to Europe? You have absolutely no clue.
What you are typing is absolute garbage. Complete and utter tosh. Laughable. Ha ha.
Someone has only one source of (dis)information. Trumpists have no ideology. Trump was a Manhattan liberal a few years ago but has people hoodwinked. Its tribalism now. No ideology left or right, liberal or conservative. Its to protect the tribe at any cost. Facts don't matter. The only role in life is to protect the tribe at all costs. It would be like having a conversation with a coffee table. I miss the old debates liberal vs conservative, etc. Now its just disinformation all over the place. Democracies all over the world are tumbling because of the disinformation pumped into the countries. Look who was elected in Poland, Chech republic, etc. Even Brexit was a Russian pipe dream come true. Thank goodness for the French for turning the tide and not supporting fascist LePage. If she had won, she would have dismantled NATO a personal request of Putin. She was just invited to speak at CPAC which is "supposed" to be a gathering of conservatives. They forgot that she supports government health care and government mandating shortening of the work week (anti-business). She is anything but a conservative but because she is so anti-immigrant the "fake conservatives" welcomed her with open arms. Its total hypocrisy but when you don't believe facts, what do you expect.
The indictments are coming. We are in for one hell of a ride.
Our founding fathers were brilliant men. The system they created was a check and balance on all areas of government. Even if a strongman or dictator was elected the Congress would have oversight to counter the executive branch. Our founding fathers never imagined that member of Congress would refuse to do oversight. Trump has so many conflicts of interests. Only the political party in power in Congress has subpoena power. It would take a change of party to get subpoena power to show Trump's taxes, investments, and tenants in his buildings. That may change in a few months.

[Jondalar]

Someone has only one source of (dis)information. Trumpists have no ideology. Trump was a Manhattan liberal a few years ago but has people hoodwinked. Its tribalism now. No ideology left or right, liberal or conservative. Its to protect the tribe at any cost. Facts don't matter. The only role in life is to protect the tribe at all costs. It would be like having a conversation with a coffee table. I miss the old debates liberal vs conservative, etc. Now its just disinformation all over the place. Democracies all over the world are tumbling because of the disinformation pumped into the countries. Look who was elected in Poland, Chech republic, etc. Even Brexit was a Russian pipe dream come true. Thank goodness for the French for turning the tide and not supporting fascist LePage. If she had won, she would have dismantled NATO a personal request of Putin. She was just invited to speak at CPAC which is "supposed" to be a gathering of conservatives. They forgot that she supports government health care and government mandating shortening of the work week (anti-business). She is anything but a conservative but because she is so anti-immigrant the "fake conservatives" welcomed her with open arms. Its total hypocrisy but when you don't believe facts, what do you expect.
The indictments are coming. We are in for one hell of a ride.
Our founding fathers were brilliant men. The system they created was a check and balance on all areas of government. Even if a strongman or dictator was elected the Congress would have oversight to counter the executive branch. Our founding fathers never imagined that member of Congress would refuse to do oversight. Trump has so many conflicts of interests. Only the political party in power in Congress has subpoena power. It would take a change of party to get subpoena power to show Trump's taxes, investments, and tenants in his buildings. That may change in a few months.

Thanks for your great wisdom. Trump’s not a dictator and never was and he didn’t even know enough about Washington to collude with the Russians, unlike the Clintons. It will get interesting. If you think that people are just going to sit around and let Democrats steal the presidency over some made up crap, you have another thing coming. It will be an all out civil war.

[Hawkeye]

Thanks for your great wisdom. Trump’s not a dictator and never was and he didn’t even know enough about Washington to collude with the Russians, unlike the Clintons. It will get interesting. If you think that people are just going to sit around and let Democrats steal the presidency over some made up crap, you have another thing coming. It will be an all out civil war.

You do realize trump being impeached would not then make his opponent in the last election president right? Mike Pence would be president. Don’t see how that’s the Democrats stealing an election.

[Jondalar]

You do realize trump being impeached would not then make his opponent in the last election president right? Mike Pence would be president. Don’t see how that’s the Democrats stealing an election.

You do realize that nobody voted for Mike Pence and he would of never been elected anyway. You do realize that from day one the public has watched the media and Democrats openly conspire against Trump and try to discredit the election. (Now we are supposed to believe that this is just an honest investigation when you’ve been so obvious about the whole thing.)And you do realize that Democrats already stole the nomination and probably the presidency from Bernie Sanders and they don’t mind doing it again.

Oh and you do realize that Hillary Clinton was caught in lie after lie and nothing happened to her.

People who voted for Trump are just supposed to watch this happen.

[iamnotafraid]

Ever wonder how many minds we've
changed here by arguing?

At least I know I'm right.

[FuzzyPlum]

You do realize that nobody voted for Mike Pence and he would of never been elected anyway. You do realize that from day one the public has watched the media and Democrats openly conspire against Trump and try to discredit the election. (Now we are supposed to believe that this is just an honest investigation when you’ve been so obvious about the whole thing.)And you do realize that Democrats already stole the nomination and probably the presidency from Bernie Sanders and they don’t mind doing it again.

Oh and you do realize that Hillary Clinton was caught in lie after lie and nothing happened to her.

People who voted for Trump are just supposed to watch this happen.

People in the US vote for the ticket. You knew Pence would take over at some point if Trump didn't make the full term...and lets face it, at the outset there was always a significant chance Trump wouldn't have made it to the end of a full term. Your voters knew that.

Talk about stealing the presidency. Your Republican party knows all about that. Getting elected with millions less votes than the loser is a big steal. BTW- the election is over- you don't need to keep justifying things with references to Hillary Clinton. She old news. Move on.

[FuzzyPlum]

Ever wonder how many minds we've
changed here by arguing?

At least I know I'm right.

I Know I'm Not Wrong

[Dr.Brown]

...and lets face it, at the outset there was always a significant chance Trump wouldn't have made it to the end of a full term. Your voters knew that.

Wrong. This is only something his opponents wish, just like media pundits "knew" he would never be elected.

Talk about stealing the presidency. Your Republican party knows all about that. Getting elected with millions less votes than the loser is a big steal.

The electoral college which led to Pres. Trump's victory is part of the presidential election process, just as Democrat super-delegates are. Why did no one complain when Hillary received more Democratic primary votes but still lost to Obama in 2008?

BTW- the election is over- you don't need to keep justifying things with references to Hillary Clinton. She old news. Move on.

Because she would have been the alternative and many realize America really dodged a bullet there. The election is indeed over. It doesn't matter whether you think you're wrong or right, the reality is that Trump won. Move on.

[FuzzyPlum]

It doesn't matter whether you think you're wrong or right, the reality is that Trump won. Move on.


He sure did and the whole world has got to live with it. It's not a better place though.

[becca]

You do realize that from day one the public has watched the media and Democrats openly conspire against Trump and try to discredit the election. (Now we are supposed to believe that this is just an honest investigation when you’ve been so obvious about the whole thing.)

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian." :distress:

[Dr.Brown]

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian." :distress:

No, you don't have to "shut up" but realize that Mueller was appointed as director of the FBI by George Bush in 2001. Despite the Republican label, there is no love lost between Bush loyalists and Trump supporters who view Bush and his VP Cheney as globalists who in the wake of the 9/11 attacks were eager to start wars and further destabilize the Middle East while protecting their Saudi friends - this, despite the fact that 17 of 19 attackers were Saudi citizens. Bush/Cheney pivoted away from Saudi Arabia in order to take care of "unfinished business" left over from his father's term in office, getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

Unfortunately, the destabilization campaign continued under Barack Obama and then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who saw to it that Qaddafi was deposed/executed in Libya. The unstable regions then became recruiting hotbeds and a staging ground for Radical Islamic groups such as ISIS. Getting back to Mueller, he was fully on board the Bush agenda and also found favor with Pres. Obama who extended Mueller's term as FBI director. There are legitimate doubts as to Mueller's objectivity and no appeal to such can be made based on supposed party loyalty.

[Jondalar]

Er, Robert Mueller is a Republican and was appointed by Republicans. I know I know, "shut up Canadian." :distress:

The FBI hates Trump. Many Republicans hate Trump. One of the reasons Trump got elected was because a lot Democrats who voted for him never considered him a true Republican. He has been boxed in that role now because Democrats made it clear from day 1 they were his enemy. His voters understand what he has had to go through and are forgiving. The Deep State wants him gone.

I always voted Democratic until Trump. I’m so glad I did. I love my country and am totally embarrassed of the way Democrats have acted. Their behavior has made me an even bigger supporter of Trump. Trump puts American citizens first. The Democrats put everyone else first, including illegal aliens. There is nothing wrong with loving your country. Democrats want everyone to be ashamed.I cannot vote for the anti-American Democratic Party anymore. They don’t even respect the law, police or free speech anymore. Screw them. They’ve lost my vote.

I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. I’m a Trumpster who loves his country.

[Newzchspy]

so, @fuzzyplum , its OK for HRC to steal a nomination away from Mr. Free Sh*T Bernie Sanders?? It works both ways.

Understand, it's not the MOST votes numerically in the USA that wins elections, its the most votes in the Electoral College states that matter. CA & NY always go Demo anymore, so in our system of checks and balances, we have to temper NY, CA and other liberal bastions with the middle and its ALWAYS the middle that wins elections. Like it or not, that's the way it works.

[becca]

Thank you for those two replies Dr. Brown and Jondalar... it does help to see the thinking behind people's politics. I can certainly agree with being very happy with things Trump said about the whole 'pre-emptive war' Iraq invasion which Bush Jr. and Obama both signed on to. I did hear that Bush Jr. bought record amounts of oil for the U.S. reserve when it was at a record high cost while he was in, a conflict of interest for the oil man way up there past things only alleged about Trump. Before that I figured I would've voted Ross Perot two times; I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

[Dr.Brown]

I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

I completely agree that the US is very poorly served by a two-party system. I had hoped that in 2016 Trump and Sanders would have been the two candidates to break up entrenched interests within both parties, perhaps permanently splintering them.

I was really disappointed however in how quickly Sanders caved at the Democratic primary convention even though he must have known there was massive fraud against him coming from the Clinton campaign during the primaries. I think Trump has ended up closer to the mark in upsetting the apple cart among the Republicans but still has a ways to go in that direction. IMHO, the less influence we see from "neo-Con" interventionists such as Bush/Cheney, McCain, Romney, etc., the better.

[Jondalar]

Thank you for those two replies Dr. Brown and Jondalar... it does help to see the thinking behind people's politics. I can certainly agree with being very happy with things Trump said about the whole 'pre-emptive war' Iraq invasion which Bush Jr. and Obama both signed on to. I did hear that Bush Jr. bought record amounts of oil for the U.S. reserve when it was at a record high cost while he was in, a conflict of interest for the oil man way up there past things only alleged about Trump. Before that I figured I would've voted Ross Perot two times; I definitely hoped the U.S. could have a new party or two grow, but that seems further away than ever.

Just an FYI about Mueller. His team of lawyers include 13 Democrats, 3 Independents and no Republicans. He is a man with a mission. That team is out to get Trump. However, after all this time they haven’t found Trump collusion with Russia. It just turning into a perjury investigation, anything to get the president, someway, somehow. The media has gotten huge ratings with Russian collusion stories but now they are even moving away from it.

[Macfan4life]

FISA Judge 1: Republican
FISA Judge 2: Republican
FISA Judge 3: Republican
FISA Judge 4: Republican
Robert Mueller: Republican
Rod Rosenstein: Republican
Attorney General: Republican
FBI Director: Republican
House: Republican
Senate: Republican

The Trump and Nunes conspiracy ;)
BTW I would imagine most FBI agents did not vote for Hillary Clinton and voted for Trump like all other law enforcement agencies

[FuzzyPlum]

so, @fuzzyplum , its OK for HRC to steal a nomination away from Mr. Free Sh*T Bernie Sanders?? It works both ways.

Understand, it's not the MOST votes numerically in the USA that wins elections, its the most votes in the Electoral College states that matter. CA & NY always go Demo anymore, so in our system of checks and balances, we have to temper NY, CA and other liberal bastions with the middle and its ALWAYS the middle that wins elections. Like it or not, that's the way it works.


Yes, I know that. I didn't mean they literally stole an election. :confused:
You don't seem to have the most democratic example of democracy in the world though when the most popular candidate to the tune of 3 million votes (more than 2% of the electorate) loses- but that's another story.

Anyway, I see there were positive comments from your President regarding gun control yesterday. That's a step in the right direction. I'd be happy for you all if he manages to get something done- He's gone up one notch in my estimation, though the bar is still pretty low. Of course, he might speak to somebody else tomorrow and change his mind.

[Jondalar]

Yes, I know that. I didn't mean they literally stole an election. :confused:
You don't seem to have the most democratic example of democracy in the world though when the most popular candidate to the tune of 3 million votes (more than 2% of the electorate) loses- but that's another story.

Thank god a lot of those Anchor Babies didn't move out of state like they were supposed to. California can grow and grow but electorially it doesn't matter.

Clinton didn't try real hard in the Rust Belt State like Wisconsin and Ohio out of arrogance and that's where she lost. It was her own fault. Plus, the Democrats screwed their strongest candidate, Bernie Sanders, out of the nomination. No one wants to take responsibility for losing. That's what all this Russia nonsense is about.

[Jondalar]

FISA Judge 1: Republican
FISA Judge 2: Republican
FISA Judge 3: Republican
FISA Judge 4: Republican
Robert Mueller: Republican
Rod Rosenstein: Republican
Attorney General: Republican
FBI Director: Republican
House: Republican
Senate: Republican

The Trump and Nunes conspiracy ;)
BTW I would imagine most FBI agents did not vote for Hillary Clinton and voted for Trump like all other law enforcement agencies

Yeah, and the fake Dossier payed for by Clinton is why he is even being investigated by Mueller. Don't get me started on conspiracies. Clinton lied over and over again, deleted emails..... Lorretta Lynch on the tarmack with Bill Clinton.... nothing ever happened to her. The justice system protected her over and over again. The Clinton Foundation... Uranium.... Comey got sooo much crap from his own people for letting her off the hook that it backfired.

[FuzzyPlum]

Yeah, and the fake Dossier payed for by Clinton is why he is even being investigated by Mueller. Don't get me started on conspiracies. Clinton lied over and over again, deleted emails..... Lorretta Lynch on the tarmack with Bill Clinton.... nothing ever happened to her. The justice system protected her over and over again. The Clinton Foundation... Uranium.... Comey got sooo much crap from his own people for letting her off the hook that it backfired.


Is that the investigation and resulting dossier that was first set up by conservatives to discredit Trump?
Anyway, the net is tightening- they're getting out while they still can and the canaries are singing.

[elle]

Ever wonder how many minds we've
changed here by arguing?

At least I know I'm right.

i've been checking here from time to time, just out of curiosity. i have to say that i'm puzzled why people keep re-arguing what happened more than a year ago.

why not discuss current events? there's so much important stuff happening right now, including tax cuts, education, foreign policy, environment, immigration, gun control, healthcare, infrastructure (well doesn't seem like much is happening there) that all has consequences for both now and the future, yet all i read here is re-litigating something that's long over and done. :shrug:

[Jondalar]

i've been checking here from time to time, just out of curiosity. i have to say that i'm puzzled why people keep re-arguing what happened more than a year ago.

why not discuss current events? there's so much important stuff happening right now, including tax cuts, education, foreign policy, environment, immigration, gun control, healthcare, infrastructure (well doesn't seem like much is happening there) that all has consequences for both now and the future, yet all i read here is re-litigating something that's long over and done. :shrug:

Because the Democratic Party won't move on. They keep blaming their loss on the president and Russia and won't take any responsibility for their own mistakes. It's time to move on but they won't let it happen. It would mean they would actually have to admit to responsibility for their bad decision making. They also don't want to cater to the white working people in the Rust Belt to win back the votes they lost.

[elle]

Because the Democratic Party won't move on. They keep blaming their loss on the president and Russia and won't take any responsibility for their own mistakes. It's time to move on but they won't let it happen. It would mean they would actually have to admit to responsibility for their bad decision making. They also don't want to cater to the white working people in the Rust Belt to win back the votes they lost.

that makes no sense. democratic party is completely irrelevant right now. they have no power whatsoever, so why would you pay any attention or worry about anything they say or do, or any candidates they had in the past and are long out of any kind of influence sphere.

[Jondalar]

that makes no sense. democratic party is completely irrelevant right now. they have no power whatsoever, so why would you pay any attention or worry about anything they say or do, or any candidates they had in the past and are long out of any kind of influence sphere.

It makes total sense. They are trying to get him impeached. They have from the beginning. All they want to do is disrupt his presidency. They are not treating him like a president. They are still upset over the election.

[elle]

It makes total sense. They are trying to get him impeached. They have from the beginning.

they cannot impeach him. republicans have both the house and the senate.

again, democrats have no power. you are worrying about people without power and stuff that cannot happen, instead of making sure that people who are actually in power do what they promised they would do for you. like drain the swamp for example!

then again, as a FM fan i guess one is used to pondering about stuff that won't happen! :lol:

[Macfan4life]

Yeah, and the fake Dossier payed for by Clinton is why he is even being investigated by Mueller. Don't get me started on conspiracies. Clinton lied over and over again, deleted emails..... Lorretta Lynch on the tarmack with Bill Clinton.... nothing ever happened to her. The justice system protected her over and over again. The Clinton Foundation... Uranium.... Comey got sooo much crap from his own people for letting her off the hook that it backfired.
That's actually false but its not me to try to prove anything to you. Google or do your own fact searching. The FBI investigation into the Trump campaign happened well before the Dossier. The Dossier was political research that stumbled upon Russian connections that was also reported to the FBI. However, the FBI already had an investigation going. On a side note, nothing in the Dossier has ever been proven to be false.
That is what Nunes wont tell you trying to fool everyone that the FBI investigation came only from the Dossier. That is wrong. As we learned from the Trump people who have pled guilty, the FBI investigation started with one guy's loose lips and bragging to other people.
Something that could help you in life is never trust just one news source. Do your own investigation. Never take something for granted that someone is spoon feeding you.

[Macfan4life]

Yes, I know that. I didn't mean they literally stole an election. :confused:
You don't seem to have the most democratic example of democracy in the world though when the most popular candidate to the tune of 3 million votes (more than 2% of the electorate) loses- but that's another story.

Anyway, I see there were positive comments from your President regarding gun control yesterday. That's a step in the right direction. I'd be happy for you all if he manages to get something done- He's gone up one notch in my estimation, though the bar is still pretty low. Of course, he might speak to somebody else tomorrow and change his mind.
Our founders were brilliant men. But they were highly suspicious of common and ignorant men. When they created the government not only did they put checks and balances on all branches of government but they also created a check and balance on the people's power. For example only land owners were allowed to vote. The Congress they created was 2 houses. House of representatives elected by the people and the Senate where the Senators where appointed by the governors in each state. The Senate approves treaties, judges, etc. They wanted educated men in these positions so the elected power was not given to popular vote until 1917 when the constitution was changed to allow popular vote of Senators. The electoral college does many things but the most important thing it does is a chance for the college to over turn the popular vote in case the people voted for a flawed candidate. Its perfectly legal for any member of the electoral college to vote for anyone they want. However tradition is they vote the way their district does. But they are not bound by it at all. Many times over the years not all members of the electoral college vote for the president their district did. For example in 1988 one member did not vote for either major candidate for president. His one vote made no difference in the election and it was more of a protest vote. After the election of Trump many lobbied members of the electoral college not to vote for Trump. But most of the college voted how their district did which elected Trump.
The electoral college will be repealed in the next 50 years. Right now the rural states feel powerful but in about 20 years you can win the presidency by only winning 8 most popular states. You could win 42 states and still lose the presidency. Democrats are wimps lost 2 presidential elections in the last 25 years to the electoral college but winning the popular vote. If this happened once to Republicans, they would definitely move to abolish the electoral college. But once 8 or 9 states decide the presidency with the major cities, they will change their minds.

[Jondalar]

That's actually false but its not me to try to prove anything to you. Google or do your own fact searching. The FBI investigation into the Trump campaign happened well before the Dossier. The Dossier was political research that stumbled upon Russian connections that was also reported to the FBI. However, the FBI already had an investigation going. On a side note, nothing in the Dossier has ever been proven to be false.
That is what Nunes wont tell you trying to fool everyone that the FBI investigation came only from the Dossier. That is wrong. As we learned from the Trump people who have pled guilty, the FBI investigation started with one guy's loose lips and bragging to other people.
Something that could help you in life is never trust just one news source. Do your own investigation. Never take something for granted that someone is spoon feeding you.

Well somebody has been reading Politico and taking whatever Adam Schiff says as gospel. Your research try’s to debunk how important the Clinton paid for Dossier was to getting the court to let them to spy on Trump. By the way, of course the FBI, and the Swamp in Washington DC were investigating Trump. All they have wanted to do from the beginning is discredit him. Just because they started investigation, doesn’t mean they are just. However they had the courts approval to spy on him because of the dossier.

Trump was not part of the swamp. He didn’t know enough about politics to rig an election. Clinton lied over and over again. Nothing ever happened to her. The Clintons dirty dealings are all over Washington.

[elle]

Trump was not part of the swamp. He didn’t know enough about politics
wasn't that exactly his argument on why he can drain the swamp - because he knows it too well from being on the other side, from years of giving money to politicians to try to gain influence? so he'd be perfectly suited to drain the swamp, making sure that his decisions don't depend on who can give more money for something that may benefit him or his businesses since he's independently wealthy. i have not been following much lately, how's that been going?

[Jondalar]

wasn't that exactly his argument on why he can drain the swamp - because he knows it too well from being on the other side, from years of giving money to politicians to try to gain influence? so he'd be perfectly suited to drain the swamp, making sure that his decisions don't depend on who can give more money for something that may benefit him or his businesses since he's independently wealthy. i have not been following much lately, how's that been going?

No that wasn’t his argument. And your statement is full of negative twists against Trump. It’s going well.

[FuzzyPlum]

Drain the swamp?
From what I read Jared Kushner is single-handedly turning Washington DC into Louisiana.

[Jondalar]

Drain the swamp?
From what I read Jared Kushner is single-handedly turning Washington DC into Louisiana.

You worry about the United States too much and CNN and the Huffington Post are more like terrorist organizations than media outlets. All they do is lie, racebait to try and incite and spread Fake News to further the Democratic agenda, which is now a socialist agenda. There is Fox News and then there is everything else. Most news organizations are just branches of the Democratic Party. FOX is soo popular because it's the only alternative.

[FuzzyPlum]

You worry about the United States too much and CNN and the Huffington Post are more like terrorist organizations than media outlets. All they do is lie is try to incite and spread Fake News. There is Fox News and then there is everything else. Most news organizations are just branches of the Democratic Party. FOX is soo popular because it's the only alternative.

I must admit I do spend too much of my time following American political news but I can't help it... I find it intriguing and...well... entertaining. Its like watching a Shakespearean play- often tragic. often laughable, sometimes horrific.

Don't think I've ever read Huff Post and I rarely look at CNN. I mostly read British newspapers online; Independent and The Guardian. I'll also admit to being addicted to openly left wingers like TYT, Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert.

Fox News and then everything else; there are normal views and regular opinions, and then there are extreme views as pushed by Fox. That Fox is one of the very few major news outlets that push such a far right wing agenda should tell you all you need to know. There is a reason why the much maligned 'mainstream media' are called the mainstream.

[jwd]

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[elle]

No that wasn’t his argument. And your statement is full of negative twists against Trump. It’s going well.

i have no idea what are you reading into my post, but there're no negative twists in it.

about that whole draining the swamp and him stating he's the best man to do it and why, i'm too lazy to but i'm sure with a bit of googling you will find videos of him saying that - and i'm surprised you think what he said was negative, i would think that's one of the things people liked about him.

it's going well is not telling me anything.

[Jondalar]

i have no idea what are you reading into my post, but there're no negative twists in it.

about that whole draining the swamp and him stating he's the best man to do it and why, i'm too lazy to but i'm sure with a bit of googling you will find videos of him saying that - and i'm surprised you think what he said was negative, i would think that's one of the things people liked about him.

it's going well is not telling me anything.

He has gotten rid of most of the Obama administration and Clinton lackeys. There are lots more of deep state to go. He has to work on lobbyist too. Term limits would help. He has been doing well with replacing judges. Trump was not part of Washington. That's why he best to do it and why he is NOT part of the Russian Collusion. The man would not even know how to collude to win the election. He was never a politician. That is one reason people voted for him. The Deep State (the swamp) wants him gone.

[elle]

He has gotten rid of most of the Obama administration and Clinton lackeys. There are lots more of deep state to go. He has to work on lobbyist too. Term limits would help. He has been doing well with replacing judges. Trump was not part of Washington. That's why he best to do it and why he is NOT part of the Russian Collusion. The man would not even know how to collude to win the election. He was never a politician. That is one reason people voted for him. The Deep State (the swamp) wants him gone.

thanks for responding. very interesting.

i always thought that by draining the swamp people meant getting rid of special interests, lobbyists and influence of big money in politics, and doing what's actually good for the country and the people.

f i understand correctly you seem to have a very different definition - getting rid of non-partisan carrier public service people. like the ones who are supposed to be keeping special interests and big money in check. however, i may misinterpreting what you are saying since i have no idea what "deep state" is supposed to mean. :shrug:

[SisterNightroad]

I must admit I do spend too much of my time following American political news but I can't help it... I find it intriguing and...well... entertaining. Its like watching a Shakespearean play- often tragic. often laughable, sometimes horrific.

Don't think I've ever read Huff Post and I rarely look at CNN. I mostly read British newspapers online; Independent and The Guardian. I'll also admit to being addicted to openly left wingers like TYT, Bill Maher and Stephen Colbert.

Fox News and then everything else; there are normal views and regular opinions, and then there are extreme views as pushed by Fox. That Fox is one of the very few major news outlets that push such a far right wing agenda should tell you all you need to know. There is a reason why the much maligned 'mainstream media' are called the mainstream.
I've just returned from a week without wifi and I've suddenly remembered about an English paper called Savage that was recommended by famous writer Roberto Saviano a few months ago for its knowledge about Italy's economic and political history, can you tell me something about it?

In the same article he was also praising another American magazine called Jacobin and the writer David Broder in particular that writes for both papers if anyone of you knows them.

[FuzzyPlum]

I've just returned from a week without wifi and I've suddenly remembered about an English paper called Savage that was recommended by famous writer Roberto Saviano a few months ago for its knowledge about Italy's economic and political history, can you tell me something about it?

In the same article he was also praising another American magazine called Jacobin and the writer David Broder in particular that writes for both papers if anyone of you knows them.


Sorry, I've never heard of either of them. Tried googling Savage and cant seem to find anything. Found Jacobin- looks like a very socialist American paper.

[FuzzyPlum]

Great- an international trade war on the way. Well done Don you 5 year old pillock.
There was me thinking US republicans were all for laissez-faire economics.
Does nobody any good...anywhere. :shrug:

[SisterNightroad]

Sorry, I've never heard of either of them. Tried googling Savage and cant seem to find anything. Found Jacobin- looks like a very socialist American paper.
Sorry, I've misspelled, I meant SaLvage!

[Dr.Brown]

Great- an international trade war on the way. Well done Don you 5 year old pillock.
There was me thinking US republicans were all for laissez-faire economics.
Does nobody any good...anywhere. :shrug:

An international trade war "on the way"? What do you think has been going on for decades to our detriment? Why do you think everything seems to be made in China today? Previous administrations have looked the other way as countries have unilaterally imposed strict controls and duties on American imports.

Elon Musk (not exactly a "5 year old pillock") pointed out that China imposes a 25% duty on all American cars imported into China while we impose only a 2.5% duty on imported Chinese cars - a tenfold difference! He also noted that US companies cannot own more than a 50% share of any Chinese auto factory while there are five 100% Chinese-owned auto factories within the US. Does this sound particularly "laissez-faire"?

[Jondalar]

An international trade war "on the way"? What do you think has been going on for decades to our detriment? Why do you think everything seems to be made in China today? Previous administrations have looked the other way as countries have unilaterally imposed strict controls and duties on American imports.

Elon Musk (not exactly a "5 year old pillock") pointed out that China imposes a 25% duty on all American cars imported into China while we impose only a 2.5% duty on imported Chinese cars - a tenfold difference! He also noted that US companies cannot own more than a 50% share of any Chinese auto factory while there are five 100% Chinese-owned auto factories within the US. Does this sound particularly "laissez-faire"?

Trump is doing the right thing. The media is always going to put a negative spin on everything he does and liberals will always spread their gospel, which isn’t truth at all. Finally, someone is looking out for America. Of course foreigners aren’t going to like it. They are not going to benefit from it. They want to turn our country into a third world hellhole so they can feel superior. They lost their power long ago.

The liberal media and Democrats are so insane they are willing to create a Cold War with Russia because they lost the election.Democrats aren't simply the pro-immigration party. They've become the anti-border party. The party opposed to citizenship itself. They don't want the border secured. They oppose the deportation of anyone, under any circumstances, even criminal offenses.

We need Trump to put a stop to this madness. And let’s beat China at their own game, while taking back America.

[FuzzyPlum]

An international trade war "on the way"? What do you think has been going on for decades to our detriment? Why do you think everything seems to be made in China today? Previous administrations have looked the other way as countries have unilaterally imposed strict controls and duties on American imports.

Elon Musk (not exactly a "5 year old pillock") pointed out that China imposes a 25% duty on all American cars imported into China while we impose only a 2.5% duty on imported Chinese cars - a tenfold difference! He also noted that US companies cannot own more than a 50% share of any Chinese auto factory while there are five 100% Chinese-owned auto factories within the US. Does this sound particularly "laissez-faire"?

If the US needs to put tariffs on imports from individual countries then that's fine, but its madness to impose tariffs across the board. Now all countries will all revert to protectionism. This will fuel inflation in the US (and other countries) and be bad for you guys overall....shooting yourselves in the foot. The EU is targeting Harley Davidson, Levi's, bourbon etc. This is clever as price rises on those products mean people in Europe will likely just buy other products/brands. In the US you cant avoid buying steel and aluminium so you'll still have to buy more expensive US steel and aluminium making everything you make more expensive and more difficult to sell abroad. Madness. Sad!

[Jondalar]

Whatever the case, America cannot become like Europe, a continent that is allowing it’s people to be displaced. A place that is allowed to have healthcare because of the United States military. What happens when America is no longer their sugar daddy. They are committing suicide. Muslims aren’t assimilating to Europe. Europe is assimilating to Muslims. The history that Europe has prided itself on will be gone like the statues in America that the Left has managed to take down. When you’re little girls have to wear turbans and get acid in thrown in their face then tell everyone how great Europe is.

[Jondalar]

This video talks about the Russian collusion and surprise it comes from real, objective liberals. Watch if you want to learn something instead of that crap being put out there by the bought and paid for media.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/waGnHlRIsWM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[becca]

U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, released the following statement today on President Trump congratulating Vladimir Putin on his “election” victory:

“An American president does not lead the Free World by congratulating dictators on winning sham elections. And by doing so with Vladimir Putin, President Trump insulted every Russian citizen who was denied the right to vote in a free and fair election to determine their country's future, including the countless Russian patriots who have risked so much to protest and resist Putin's regime."

[Jondalar]

U.S. Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, released the following statement today on President Trump congratulating Vladimir Putin on his “election” victory:

“An American president does not lead the Free World by congratulating dictators on winning sham elections. And by doing so with Vladimir Putin, President Trump insulted every Russian citizen who was denied the right to vote in a free and fair election to determine their country's future, including the countless Russian patriots who have risked so much to protest and resist Putin's regime."

No surprise there. John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Jeff Flake have done nothing but try to hurt Trump.

It’s funny. Hillary admittedly paid Russia for dirt on Trump and doesn’t get charged with collusion. She also profited from selling a bunch of uranium to Russia but doesn’t get charged with anything. Janet Lynch and Obama knew that Russia was meddling with our elections but stopped the investigation. Why, because Russia has always screwed with our elections but they didn’t think Hillary would lose. America is no angel and has interfered with other country’s elections.

As far as Russia is concerned, it’s absolutely pathetic that Democrats are willing to start another Cold War or possibly World War 3 with Russia instead of admitting their mistakes from the election. The mainstream news media is just deep state puppets and they are ramping things up.

[iamnotafraid]

Hillary admittedly paid Russia for dirt on Trump and doesn’t get charged with collusion.

uranium to Russia...

Janet Lynch and Obama knew that Russia was meddling with our elections but stopped the investigation.


This is proof that the left don't have a leg to stand on.
Had Hillary won all this would have been swept under
the rug.

It seems Democrats finally realized in 2017 that Russians
aren't our friends.

I would suggest they get out of the way and let Trump do
his job.

[iamnotafraid]

This just in...

Biden says he'd beat the hell out of Trump if in high school.

Wow! This stuff is better than anything I could make up.

Biden, Clinton and Obama or Larry, Moe and Curly?

[Jondalar]

This just in...

Biden says he'd beat the hell out of Trump if in high school.

Wow! This stuff is better than anything I could make up.

Biden, Clinton and Obama or Larry, Moe and Curly?

I don't know about that. Trump was pretty scrappy. The Democratic Party needs to appeal to working class white voters in the next presidential election. They lost them last election. Biden is the only person they have who they think can appeal to those voters. The problem is Biden is 75 years right now. (4 years older than Trump.) He will be 78 years old the next election. Right now, the media is taking photographs of Biden giving money to homeless people and spreading them around the internet. They want the world to think that he is an angel and Trump the devil. The mainstream media is just a puppet of the DEEP STATE.

The bias of the media is soooo unreal. In 2012 Obama called Vladmir Putin to congratulate him on winning the election. Well, Trump just did the same thing and the media went crazy. They are insinuating that he is in league with Putin. They are absolutely ok with starting a new Cold War or World War 3 with Russia then admit how badly they screwed up in the election. Hillary paid Russia for information on Trump and the Obama administration stops Russian interference investigation, yet, Trump, a man who had no Washington experience. is supposed to be the one colluding with Putin. Totally ridiculous.

Watch the video I embedded. It's pretty sickening.

[iamnotafraid]

I don't know about that. Trump was pretty scrappy.

In 2012 Obama called Vladmir Putin to congratulate him on winning the election. Well, Trump just did the same thing and the media went crazy.

I believe Mr. Trump could take Biden any day of the week.
That's a PPV that I'd be glad to pay for.

I'm wondering if Biden felt the same about the enabler and
her husband Bill?

The call...
It's so ridiculous how the media paints the picture. If
there's not a story - make one up!

I don't believe I've heard one positive story about President
Trump the whole times he's been in office. It seems the news
media and Democrats would even like him to fail on North
Korea.

People wonder why conservatives listen to Fox News. It's
not that hard to figure out really.

[gldstwmn]

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[bombaysaffires]

Speaking as a woman, and as a feminist, being a woman does not exempt you from blame for your actions.

Everyone wants to paint Stevie as the victim of bad behavior perpetrated by Lindsey. I believe it is very likely that such behavior did occur.

However when their personal relationship ended the co-dependency between them did not. They each knew how to push each other's buttons and taunt each other and screw each other over in their interactions. I believe this kind of behavior has gone on for years perpetrated by BOTH of them towards each other.

Many of us believe she knew she could manipulate him by manipulating his feelings, and she also harbored resentments for things that happened in the past, and found ways to inflict payback. (As did he). Her solo success gave her more power within the band to demand what she wanted because to not give her what she wanted risked that she would leave and then they would all lose a lot of money.

She's not dumb. She's very business savvy, and she would use this increasing power to get her way on things. As she got more successful in her solo career and knew she had options that others did not, she began to feel more and more entitled to get her way. After all, she is a legend. The one person who always pushed back against her was Lindsey. Not necessarily a healthy thing, but such is their dynamic. Many people believe that since he was really the only person in the band who would not just give in to what she wanted, over time this really irritated her, and she ultimately used her leverage to get him out in order to have all the power in the band.

You can disagree and that's fine, but that is NOT misogyny. The word misogyny means "hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls." I can't speak for everyone who bashes Stevie, but for many people it isn't because she's a WOMAN that they are mad at her, it's because she made a POWER GRAB. You may choose to justify that because once upon a time he got physical with her. Others don't.

Women can be manipulative and use their financial power in nasty ways just like men can. That is what many think happened here.

[gldstwmn]

Speaking as a woman, and as a feminist, being a woman does not exempt you from blame for your actions.

Everyone wants to paint Stevie as the victim of bad behavior perpetrated by Lindsey. I believe it is very likely that such behavior did occur.

Their relationship ended. The co-dependency between them did not. They each knew how to push each other's buttons and taunt each other and screw each other over in their interactions. I believe this kind of behavior has gone on for years perpetrated by BOTH of them towards each other. Many of us believe she knew she could manipulate him by manipulating his feelings, and she also harbored resentments for things that happened in the past, and found ways to inflict payback. (As did he). Her solo success gave her more power within the band to demand what she wanted because to not give her what she wanted risked that she would leave and then they would all lose a lot of money. SHe's not dumb. SHe's a very smart cookie, and she would use this increasing power to get her way on things. As she got more successful in her solo career and knew she had options that others did not, she began to feel somewhat entitled to get her way. After all, she is a legend. The one person who always pushed back against her was Lindsey. Not necessarily a healthy thing, but such is their dynamic. Many people believe that since he was really the only person in the band who would not just give in to what she wanted, over time this really irritated her, and she ultimately used her leverage to get him out in order to have all the power in the band.

You can disagree and that's fine, but that is NOT misogyny. The word misogyny means "hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls." I can't speak for everyone who bashes Stevie, but for many people it isn't because she's a WOMAN that they are mad at her, it's because she made a POWER GRAB. You may choose to justify that because once upon a time he got physical with her. Others don't.

Women can be manipulative and use their financial power in nasty ways just like men can. That is what many think happened here.
Thank you. This is exactly the type of discussion I wish to have. :cool:

[blinker12]

I don't think there's enough real information out there about the firing to make a call on this either way. No one (except the band) knows exactly what was said or done, so how can we assign any labels, including "misogynistic" or "power grab," to what happened?

[SisterNightroad]

Thank you. This is exactly the type of discussion I wish to have. :cool:
I'm afraid this type of discussion belongs to the Hot Topics thread, sorry but I'll have to move it there.

[bombaysaffires]

Speaking as a woman, and as a feminist, and a lifelong Stevie fan (hence the screen name) being a woman does not exempt you from blame for your actions.

Everyone wants to paint Stevie as the victim of bad behavior perpetrated by Lindsey. I believe it is very likely that such behavior did occur.

However when their personal relationship ended the co-dependency between them did not. They each knew how to push each other's buttons and taunt each other and screw each other over in their interactions. I believe this kind of behavior has gone on for years perpetrated by BOTH of them towards each other.

Many of us believe she knew she could manipulate him by manipulating his feelings, and she also harbored resentments for things that happened in the past, and found ways to inflict payback. (As did he). Her solo success gave her more power within the band to demand what she wanted because to not give her what she wanted risked that she would leave and then they would all lose a lot of money.

She's not dumb. She's very business savvy, and she would use this increasing power to get her way on things. As she got more successful in her solo career and knew she had options that others did not, she began to feel more and more entitled to get her way. After all, she is a legend. The one person who always pushed back against her was Lindsey. Not necessarily a healthy thing, but such is their dynamic. Many people believe that since he was really the only person in the band who would not just give in to what she wanted, over time this really irritated her, and she ultimately used her leverage to get him out in order to have all the power in the band.

You can disagree and that's fine, but that is NOT misogyny. The word misogyny means "hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls." I can't speak for everyone who bashes Stevie, but for many people it isn't because she's a WOMAN that they are mad at her, it's because she made a POWER GRAB. You may choose to justify that because once upon a time he got physical with her. Others don't.

Women can be manipulative and use their financial power in nasty ways just like men can. That is what many think happened here.
__________________

[AnthonyMI]

Speaking as a woman, and as a feminist, being a woman does not exempt you from blame for your actions.

Everyone wants to paint Stevie as the victim of bad behavior perpetrated by Lindsey. I believe it is very likely that such behavior did occur.

However when their personal relationship ended the co-dependency between them did not. They each knew how to push each other's buttons and taunt each other and screw each other over in their interactions. I believe this kind of behavior has gone on for years perpetrated by BOTH of them towards each other.

Many of us believe she knew she could manipulate him by manipulating his feelings, and she also harbored resentments for things that happened in the past, and found ways to inflict payback. (As did he). Her solo success gave her more power within the band to demand what she wanted because to not give her what she wanted risked that she would leave and then they would all lose a lot of money.

She's not dumb. She's very business savvy, and she would use this increasing power to get her way on things. As she got more successful in her solo career and knew she had options that others did not, she began to feel more and more entitled to get her way. After all, she is a legend. The one person who always pushed back against her was Lindsey. Not necessarily a healthy thing, but such is their dynamic. Many people believe that since he was really the only person in the band who would not just give in to what she wanted, over time this really irritated her, and she ultimately used her leverage to get him out in order to have all the power in the band.

You can disagree and that's fine, but that is NOT misogyny. The word misogyny means "hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women or girls." I can't speak for everyone who bashes Stevie, but for many people it isn't because she's a WOMAN that they are mad at her, it's because she made a POWER GRAB. You may choose to justify that because once upon a time he got physical with her. Others don't.

Women can be manipulative and use their financial power in nasty ways just like men can. That is what many think happened here.



Egg-zactly

I never hated her before and I’ll always love her music. But since becoming creatively bankrupt shes become so bitter and spiteful toward her own band. Putting a name on it and calling her out for what’s she’s done and become issnt Mrs-ogamy.

[SisterNightroad]

Honestly I don't think the point is if people call Stevie out, the problem is how they're doing it, personally I've seen a lot of expletives that refer to Stevie's sex life, her appearance and so on and I don't approve it.
Let's pretend for a moment that we're talking about someone else, if a girl or a woman has done something wrong and people are understandably angry with her and call her out, does this make it acceptable to insult her out as a woman, or shouldn't she be addressed as simply a person?

[gldstwmn]

I'm afraid this type of discussion belongs to the Hot Topics thread, sorry but I'll have to move it there.
No actually a Stevie Nicks thread belongs in a Stevie Nicks or Rumours forum. But you are one of the people who are enabling this behavior so I expected as much.

[SisterNightroad]

No actually a Stevie Nicks thread belongs in a Stevie Nicks or Rumours forum. But you are one of the people who are enabling this behavior so I expected as much.
If the threads were simply about Stevie's person I wouldn't have any problem letting them stay there but since the discussions evidently intended to start heavy political dissertations then it belongs here.
I'm curious about how I would be enabling what?

[elle]

Honestly I don't think the point is if people call Stevie out, the problem is how they're doing it, personally I've seen a lot of expletives that refer to Stevie's sex life, her appearance and so on and I don't approve it.
Let's pretend for a moment that we're talking about someone else, if a girl or a woman has done something wrong and people are understandably angry with her and call her out, does this make it acceptable to insult her out as a woman, or shouldn't she be addressed as simply a person?

Is she really being insulted as a woman? I didn’t see it anywhere but maybe I’m staying in just more positive groups.

Most groups jump on others if they even remotely mentioned the story that was told by that Petty insider- it’s him or me. It never even gets to name calling.

If anything, you can describe the power grab as a textbook business MAN tactics- you get enough power, you squeeze the person that stands in your way out.

[SisterNightroad]

Is she really being insulted as a woman? I didn’t see it anywhere but maybe I’m staying in just more positive groups.

Most groups jump on others if they even remotely mentioned the story that was told by that Petty insider- it’s him or me. It never even gets to name calling.

If anything, you can describe the power grab as a textbook business MAN tactics- you get enough power, you squeeze the person that stands in your way out.
Yes, I'm referring mostly to things I've seen yesterday on Facebook, and I'm somewhat surprised that The Ledge seems to be taking the shocking news slightly better than I initially expected.

Yes, the concept of aggressive power play in the work environment is traditionally viewed as masculine as usually women are thought to lean more towards diplomacy, but these are obviously just stereotypes, we all surely know both lots of assertive women and diplomatic men.

[gldstwmn]

If the threads were simply about Stevie's person I wouldn't have any problem letting them stay there but since the discussions evidently intended to start heavy political dissertations then it belongs here.
I'm curious about how I would be enabling what?
No thanks I'm good. I'd like a seperate thread instead of being shuffled into some dusty old corner, which is exactly what been done to #metoo victims, Cosby victims, etc. How ironic. :cool:
Edited to add: I do have a question for you though. My post had nothing to do with politics. Do you think misogyny is political?

[iamnotafraid]

Al Sharpton says "Royal wedding shows white supremacy
on it's last breath".

Well, I guess that's something we've finally got behind us.

[SisterNightroad]

Now I can finally say it: God damn it Italy!

[FuzzyPlum]

I'm starting to think of Donald Trump as Chauncey Gardner.

[SisterNightroad]

I'm starting to think of Donald Trump as Chauncey Gardner.
With the exception that Chance the Gardener was a naive and candid character

[FuzzyPlum]

With the exception that Chance the Gardener was a naive and candid character

Yes, but he was simple, lucky and mistaken for a political and economic genius.

[jwd]

What IS the World Coming To?!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eFRHX6glTSM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Jondalar]

What IS the World Coming To?!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eFRHX6glTSM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I love this commercial. I wish that they would of added Joy Behar saying she hoped Trump was killed in a fire. If the the Left is angry about this commercial, it’s their own fault. They did it to themselves. They seem like they are trying to commit suicide.

[Macfan4life]

One thing liberals and Trumpists have in common is their list of grievances. It used to only liberals who had this list of things being unfair but Trumpists are very much like liberals these days and melt like snowflakes over a Halloween mask with ketchup with their fake outrage.
I see them almost overlapping each other these days. Each side pretends to take some sort of moral high ground. You could create a video from the other side that has similar if not worse actions to make snowflakes melt. Has Trump not said the same thing at rallies that Maxine Waters said? Celebrities like Ted Nugent has said the same nasty stuff against Obama that many leftist celebrities say about Trump. To pretend this is one sided is foolish. Its cultish and tribal and proves no one is capable of thinking these days. Is everyone a victim and has to play these games? We are raising a country of victims with lists of grievances. The fake outrage is the most pathetic part. Anderson Cooper and CNN and Trumpists melting down over a Halloween Mask with ketchup LMAO. Where do we go from here?

[Jondalar]

One thing liberals and Trumpists have in common is their list of grievances. It used to only liberals who had this list of things being unfair but Trumpists are very much like liberals these days and melt like snowflakes over a Halloween mask with ketchup with their fake outrage.
I see them almost overlapping each other these days. Each side pretends to take some sort of moral high ground. You could create a video from the other side that has similar if not worse actions to make snowflakes melt. Has Trump not said the same thing at rallies that Maxine Waters said? Celebrities like Ted Nugent has said the same nasty stuff against Obama that many leftist celebrities say about Trump. To pretend this is one sided is foolish. Its cultish and tribal and proves no one is capable of thinking these days. Is everyone a victim and has to play these games? We are raising a country of victims with lists of grievances. The fake outrage is the most pathetic part. Anderson Cooper and CNN and Trumpists melting down over a Halloween Mask with ketchup LMAO. Where do we go from here?

You don’t like the video because your liberal and it doesn’t make your side look good. My god. If Kathy Griffin, Snoop Doggy or Madonna would of treated Obama like that or anyone of one of his staff, they would be in jail. Let someone make a video of them shooting Obama on the head and they would of been imprisoned . Hollywood coupled with the Antifa, and the mainstream biased media are like a hateful cult.

You keep bringing up Ted Nugent. Ted who? To compare him with real stars is a joke. Trumps approval rating keeps rising and as is does, liberals get more desperate. They even stooped to the low of using children for sympathy any time they can.

[jwd]

One thing liberals and Trumpists have in common is their list of grievances. It used to only liberals who had this list of things being unfair but Trumpists are very much like liberals these days and melt like snowflakes over a Halloween mask with ketchup with their fake outrage.
I see them almost overlapping each other these days. Each side pretends to take some sort of moral high ground. You could create a video from the other side that has similar if not worse actions to make snowflakes melt. Has Trump not said the same thing at rallies that Maxine Waters said? Celebrities like Ted Nugent has said the same nasty stuff against Obama that many leftist celebrities say about Trump. To pretend this is one sided is foolish. Its cultish and tribal and proves no one is capable of thinking these days. Is everyone a victim and has to play these games? We are raising a country of victims with lists of grievances. The fake outrage is the most pathetic part. Anderson Cooper and CNN and Trumpists melting down over a Halloween Mask with ketchup LMAO. Where do we go from here?

Civil discourse would be a good place to start. No one should ever incite violence. That is not the appropriate course for a civilized republic. Treating each other with respect and having mature, open minded discussion goes a long way to accomplishing your goals.

[Jondalar]

Here is a video showing a 30 year old man ripping a MAGA hat off from a 16 year old boy and throwing a drink in his face. He also called him a n*gg*r. You will not see this all over the news because it makes Democrats look bad. https://youtu.be/F37eIJ64t1M

[jwd]

Here is a video showing a 30 year old man ripping a MAGA hat off from a 16 year old boy and throwing a drink in his face. He also called him a n*gg*r. You will not see this all over the news because it makes Democrats look bad. https://youtu.be/F37eIJ64t1M

Surely he called the police and filed assault charges? Or surely his parents would. It's on video. That's ridiculous.

[iamnotafraid]

Here is a video showing a 30 year old man ripping a MAGA hat off from a 16 year old boy and throwing a drink in his face. He also called him a n*gg*r. You will not see this all over the news because it makes Democrats look bad. https://youtu.be/F37eIJ64t1M

As you said it won't be seen all over the news.

[Jondalar]

Surely he called the police and filed assault charges? Or surely his parents would. It's on video. That's ridiculous.

The video was posted on Twitter. The restaurant fired him and the Green Party expelled him from the party. The boy finally decided to file charges and the man was arrested for stealing. He is the 30 years old, Mexican American and his name is Kino Jimenez. He had participated in anti Trump rallies before.

Fox is the only one posting about it on twitter. It should be all over the news because this is a teenager getting assaulted. However, because Democrats aren’t looking so great right now, this could really hurt them, so it’s not getting the coverage it deserves. A lot of people have blamed Maxine Maxipad Walters for this for her rhetoric against Trump supporters.

[FuzzyPlum]

The video was posted on Twitter. The restaurant fired him and the Green Party expelled him from the party. The boy finally decided to file charges and the man was arrested for stealing. He is the 30 years old, Mexican American and his name is Kino Jimenez. He had participated in anti Trump rallies before.

Fox is the only one posting about it on twitter. It should be all over the news because this is a teenager getting assaulted. However, because Democrats aren’t looking so great right now, this could really hurt them, so it’s not getting the coverage it deserves. A lot of people have blamed Maxine Maxipad Walters for this for her rhetoric against Trump supporters.


a) its very convenient the video is only available from that exact moment. You don't know whether there was anything preceding this happening that may have provoked the guy. There's still no excuse for that sort of behaviour but there may have been something in the build up that would have provided some context to his anger. I'm not saying anything of note did happen but its very easy to be selective with clips in order to distort peoples' image of an incident.

b) is that really worthy of news? There are far bigger issues out there in the world. A man gets angry with a kid, takes his hat and throws his drink at him. Big deal- that sort of thing happens every day for a variety of reasons. That Fox picks up on it and makes a major issue of it is really no surprise. There's no accounting for individual idiots.

[Jondalar]

a) its very convenient the video is only available from that exact moment. You don't know whether there was anything preceding this happening that may have provoked the guy. There's still no excuse for that sort of behaviour but there may have been something in the build up that would have provided some context to his anger. I'm not saying anything of note did happen but its very easy to be selective with clips in order to distort peoples' image of an incident.

b) is that really worthy of news? There are far bigger issues out there in the world. A man gets angry with a kid, takes his hat and throws his drink at him. Big deal- that sort of thing happens every day for a variety of reasons. That Fox picks up on it and makes a major issue of it is really no surprise. There's no accounting for individual idiots.

Ridiculous! If the shoe were on the other foot, it would be all over the news. Nobody uses children and teenagers like the Democratic Party - high school shootings to get gun control, illegal immigrants children separated from parents to hurt ICE and Trump. You have to be living on another planet to not see how Democrats are always using children as a weapon.

He also called the teenager a n*gg*r. I guess that doesn’t count when a Hispanic says it.

P.S there is an “unnamed source” that claims the boys made remarks before hand but the liberal media won’t report who that source is. Also what the source claimed is ridiculous. People don’t talk that way. It’s the media trying to protect their party again. Hopefully the Democratic Party finishes it suicide before the midterms.

By the way, this man is 30 years old, the kid is 16.

[FuzzyPlum]

Ridiculous! If the shoe were on the other foot, it would be all over the news. Nobody uses children and teenagers like the Democratic Party - high school shootings to get gun control, illegal immigrants children separated from parents to hurt ICE and Trump. You have to be living on another planet to not see how Democrats are always using children as a weapon.

He also called the teenager a n*gg*r. I guess that doesn’t count when a Hispanic says it.

P.S there is an “unnamed source” that claims the boys made remarks before hand but the liberal media won’t report who that source is. Also what the source claimed is ridiculous. People don’t talk that way. It’s the media trying to protect their party again. Hopefully the Democratic Party finishes it suicide before the midterms.



Whaaaat? Seriously? You are comparing children being shot and kids being separated from their parents en-masse and put in cages with a teenager having a baseball cap taken, being sworn at and having a drink thrown at him.
FFS take a step back and think for a moment :shrug:

[Jondalar]

Whaaaat? Seriously? You are comparing children being shot and kids being separated from their parents en-masse and put in cages with a teenager having a baseball cap taken, being sworn at and having a drink thrown at him.
FFS take a step back and think for a moment :shrug:

What??? seriously?? Uh yes! School Shootings and child separations were taking place before Trump got there but the media didn’t dwell on it before. If you don’t want your child separated from you then don’t cross the border and break the law. Simple as that.

If the roles were reversed, the media would make out the man to be a racist and there would be racial discussions to try and show how racist the Unites States is. The Democrats would use it to keep minorities scared.

Nobody uses children like the Democratic Party. They want people to vote on emotion and not use their brains.

[FuzzyPlum]

What??? seriously?? Uh yes! School Shootings and child separations were taking place before Trump got there but the media didn’t dwell on it before. If you don’t want your child separated from you then don’t cross the border and break the law. Simple as that.

If the roles were reversed, the media would make out the man to be a racist and there would be racial discussions to try and show how racist the Unites States is. The Democrats would use it to keep minorities scared.

Nobody uses children like the Democratic Party. They want people to vote on emotion and not use their brains.


Well, I'm not American but I'm pretty certain the US media has dwelt on school shootings long before Trump (and will continue to do so long after him too). It seems odd to claim otherwise.

Child separations did indeed take place by US border authorities before Trump, but not in such significant numbers. I don't think anybody would deny it may be necessary to separate families in some cases and sent some people to prison. But deliberately using the policy as a deterrent is abhorrent and rightly condemned by people all around the world. There was a 1700% increase in such cases between April and May of this year.

[Jondalar]

Well, I'm not American but I'm pretty certain the US media has dwelt on school shootings long before Trump (and will continue to do so long after him too). It seems odd to claim otherwise.

Child separations did indeed take place by US border authorities before Trump, but not in such significant numbers. I don't think anybody would deny it may be necessary to separate families in some cases and sent some people to prison. But deliberately using the policy as a deterrent is abhorrent and rightly condemned by people all around the world. There was a 1700% increase in such cases between April and May of this year.

They weren’t using school shootings in the past as a weapon against the president of the United States like they are now. They have to find ways of keeping people outraged against Trump so they will be motivated to go vote. Using children is a way to do that.

The policy was not abhorrent. They broke the law. It’s their parents fault. Don’t come here! It’s not supposed to be easy to be an illegal immigrant - does that ever sink into liberals? They need to fight for better living conditions in their own countries, not ours. .... And condemned around the world? Who cares? The media is controlled by liberals around the world who take their que from the Democratic Party. Are people really outraged - not really. Fake outrage is their weapon.

[lovethemac1]

They weren’t using school shootings in the past as a weapon against the president of the United States like they are now. They have to find ways of keeping people outraged against Trump so they will be motivated to go vote. Using children is a way to do that.

The policy was not abhorrent. They broke the law. It’s their parents fault. Don’t come here! It’s not supposed to be easy to be an illegal immigrant - does that ever sink into liberals? They need to fight for better living conditions in their own countries, not ours. .... And condemned around the world? Who cares? The media is controlled by liberals around the world who take their que from the Democratic Party. Are people really outraged - not really. Fake outrage is their weapon.

I'm not from the the US, but trust me in saying this has been in our media for ages. Maybe the school shootings are hitting the media more because there are so many of them. And people are horrified, and it's come down to kids trying to make a difference because nothing was changing after Sandy Hook, etc.

You don't need the media to keep the world outraged at Trump. He has his own Twitter account to keep the world scratching their heads.

As for your immigration issues? All developed countries face the issue of illegal immigration/refugees. Breaking the law or not, human compassion when dealing with children is top. These people did not risk life and limb to come for a better life, because they have options at home. They don't.

But I'm sure you'll stand by your beliefs, that's your right.

[lovethemac1]

They weren’t using school shootings in the past as a weapon against the president of the United States like they are now. They have to find ways of keeping people outraged against Trump so they will be motivated to go vote. Using children is a way to do that.

The policy was not abhorrent. They broke the law. It’s their parents fault. Don’t come here! It’s not supposed to be easy to be an illegal immigrant - does that ever sink into liberals? They need to fight for better living conditions in their own countries, not ours. .... And condemned around the world? Who cares? The media is controlled by liberals around the world who take their que from the Democratic Party. Are people really outraged - not really. Fake outrage is their weapon.

And trust me, we liberals around the world do not take our que from your Democratic Party. Others countries can think for themselves.

[Jondalar]

Ha ha Stormy Daniels was arrested at Sirens strip club about a half a mile away from where I live for letting client touch her. You would think with all the publicity, she would know better.

[FuzzyPlum]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13025/production/_102516877_gettyimages-997733368.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fNXObqi.jpg


The people of the UK have made it known how they feel about Don.
Did nobody ever tell him it's not the done thing to embarrass the host when your in somebody else's house? Very rude man.

[Jondalar]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/13025/production/_102516877_gettyimages-997733368.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fNXObqi.jpg


The people of the UK have made it known how they feel about Don.
Did nobody ever tell him it's not the done thing to embarrass the host when your in somebody else's house? Very rude man.

Some people in the UK don’t like Trump. Some people do. The country sold out its people to political correctness a long time ago but there is hope. Also, they wouldn’t be liberals if they didn’t whine, bitchh and protest. They protest over the opening of an envelope.

[iamnotafraid]

Got to wonder if even half of them know
what they're protesting.

Maybe Roger Waters could borrow that
balloon.

[FuzzyPlum]

Some people in the UK don’t like Trump. Some people do. The country sold out its people to political correctness a long time ago but there is hope. Also, they wouldn’t be liberals if they didn’t whine, bitchh and protest. They protest over the opening of an envelope.

Trust me, there are very, very few people in the UK that like Trump. Not talking about 'liberals' (liberal means something completely different here in the UK, by the way). Don't believe what Fox News tells you- if you believe them they say there were large numbers of pro-Trump supporters at the marches yesterday (there were actually some small groups of English Defence League white nationalists). There may be some pro-Trump people here, but trust me the vast majority of this country is staunchly anti-Trump. Maybe 98%

How funny was he yesterday- backtracking on everything he said in the interview he gave to the Sun newspaper.
'The US-UK relationship is special. Really special. Totally special. As special as special can get. Ultra- special'. What a goon. :blob1:

[Jondalar]

Trust me, there are very, very few people in the UK that like Trump. Not talking about 'liberals' (liberal means something completely different here in the UK, by the way). Don't believe what Fox News tells you- if you believe them they say there were large numbers of pro-Trump supporters at the marches yesterday (there were actually some small groups of English Defence League white nationalists). There may be some pro-Trump people here, but trust me the vast majority of this country is staunchly anti-Trump. Maybe 98%

How funny was he yesterday- backtracking on everything he said in the interview he gave to the Sun newspaper.
'The US-UK relationship is special. Really special. Totally special. As special as special can get. Ultra- special'. What a goon. :blob1:

I wondered where you from, so it’s the UK. We will never agree. I’m glad I switched to Republican and voted for Trump. He’s got enough confidence that people can fly as many balloons as they want. Won’t change him. 😊

[FuzzyPlum]

Got to wonder if even half of them know
what they're protesting.

Maybe Roger Waters could borrow that
balloon.

To borrow a line from last night's late night British TV show 'The Last Leg':
'All in all he's just another prick with a wall'


I wondered where you from, so it’s the UK. We will never agree. I’m glad I switched to Republican and voted for Trump. He’s got enough confidence that people can fly as many balloons as they want. Won’t change him. ��


Sadly no. The Trump baby balloon was due to fly near one of his Scottish golf courses today but he's taken out an injunction to stop it from flying.

[jwd]

Trust me, there are very, very few people in the UK that like Trump. Not talking about 'liberals' (liberal means something completely different here in the UK, by the way). Don't believe what Fox News tells you- if you believe them they say there were large numbers of pro-Trump supporters at the marches yesterday (there were actually some small groups of English Defence League white nationalists). There may be some pro-Trump people here, but trust me the vast majority of this country is staunchly anti-Trump. Maybe 98%

How funny was he yesterday- backtracking on everything he said in the interview he gave to the Sun newspaper.
'The US-UK relationship is special. Really special. Totally special. As special as special can get. Ultra- special'. What a goon. :blob1:

Don't worry about it. He's not your KING!

[Jondalar]

Don't worry about it. He's not your KING!

Right on!!! Does anyone really expect other countries to be happy about Trump when we are no longer footing the bills for them or giving them our jobs.

[jwd]

Right on!!! Do anyone really expect other countries to be happy about Trump when we are no longer footing the bills for them or giving them our jobs.

1776 WAS A VERY GOOD YEAR!

[FuzzyPlum]

Right on!!! Does anyone really expect other countries to be happy about Trump when we are no longer footing the bills for them or giving them our jobs.


He's a threat to the stability and well-being of the world. Therefore we all have a vested interest. There's a big world that exists beyond your borders.

[Jondalar]

He's a threat to the stability and well-being of the world. Therefore we all have a vested interest. There's a big world that exists beyond your borders.

He’s a threat to globalist, liberals and to people who use the United States to foot the bill. This president will not kiss butt and do an apology tour. He likes America and it’s people. He is just what America needs.

[lovethemac1]

He’s a threat to globalist, liberals and to people who use the United States to foot the bill. This president will not kiss butt and do an apology tour. He likes America and it’s people. He is just what America needs.

Omg..............

[Jondalar]

Omg..............

Quit watching CNN, the Fake News network.

[secondhandchain]

He’s a threat to globalist, liberals and to people who use the United States to foot the bill. This president will not kiss butt and do an apology tour. He likes America and it’s people. He is just what America needs.

NO he's a traitor and an embarrassment to this country. I'm paying more in taxes this year (fact) and the deficit will hit 1 trillion next year WAY more then they initially thought. He's A LIAR and causes **** storms EVERY GOD DAMN day. When he was campaigning he went around saying the "real" unemployment rate was 40 percent and the Obama was lying. MAGICALLY he now boasts how the unemployment rate went from 4.6 when he took office to where it is today. WHAT THE F happened to the 40 percent rate he was quoting. LIAR He will say anything. UGH Hated around the world. Hated. The funnies part is that you think this BILLIONAIRE from New York likes Americas people. BWAAAAAH I've have listened to this absolute a hole on Howard Stern for years. He does NOT like people who aren't rich like him. What a joke!

[secondhandchain]

Quit watching CNN, the Fake News network.

Your'e like a walking Fox/trump cliche quoter. "CNN, fake news. apology tour blah blah blah". Meanwhile his sons Oday and Qusay are flying around with secret service racking up hundreds of thousand of dollars in secret service bills paid for by the taxpayers while they open golf clubs. SICKENING.

[iamnotafraid]

Your'e like a walking Fox/trump cliche quoter...SICKENING.

The only thing here that's sickening is you attacking
a member of this forum yet again.

Seriously stop with the hate. They make medicine
for your type of nerve condition. Talk to your doctor
about it.

[lovethemac1]

He’s a threat to globalist, liberals and to people who use the United States to foot the bill. This president will not kiss butt and do an apology tour. He likes America and it’s people. He is just what America needs.

How’s he working for you now??? Not kiss butt????......except for Putin’s. And he threw your America under the bus. Good luck.

[FuzzyPlum]

I've tried my best not to comment these last few days...but I can't hold it in any longer.
If it wasn't potentially so serious I'd p!ss my pants laughing. What a goon. What a lying, slimy goon. Lying to associates, the press etc is one thing, (quite obviously) lying to the whole of your country is another thing. But this is not new. Even so, there are still plenty of you that just wont accept it, no matter what. Sad!

[Jondalar]

NO he's a traitor and an embarrassment to this country. I'm paying more in taxes this year (fact) and the deficit will hit 1 trillion next year WAY more then they initially thought. He's A LIAR and causes **** storms EVERY GOD DAMN day. When he was campaigning he went around saying the "real" unemployment rate was 40 percent and the Obama was lying. MAGICALLY he now boasts how the unemployment rate went from 4.6 when he took office to where it is today. WHAT THE F happened to the 40 percent rate he was quoting. LIAR He will say anything. UGH Hated around the world. Hated. The funnies part is that you think this BILLIONAIRE from New York likes Americas people. BWAAAAAH I've have listened to this absolute a hole on Howard Stern for years. He does NOT like people who aren't rich like him. What a joke!

No he is not a traitor or an embarrassment. He is a patriot. He is trying to fight for Americans but unfortunately he is not getting much support. The liberal news media is the real embarrassment. Donald Trump is being filtered through their eyes and it just exposes how biased and manipulative they really are.

Watching tv, the night of the election, you would of thought someone died. Half the country voted for Trump but there was not a single reporter representing us. The next night news reporters were on air with Democrats in front of millions of people trying to come up with narratives to impeach Trump. We watched this happen, and now you want us to suspend reality and forget all that and believe that the liberal media and Democrats were not out to get Trump. They’re just good honest folks doing their job. Total bulls****!!!! If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it a duck and it’s very obvious that 95% of the media is just another branch of the Democratic Party and has been out to get Trump from day1.

Now we know you think Trump supporters are stupid. You try sooo hard to tie Trump to Putin with the hopes that we will have developed amnesia and turn on him. It’s not going to work. Why? Because we can’t relate to you. Democrats live in their own world of identity politics, 900 genders, loving illegal criminals, hating Christians, hating police, hating free speech... you’re not really classic Democrats anymore. It’s like they have their heads permanently stuffed up their own assses and they only see what they want to see. Democrats don’t represent working people anymore - one big reason why you lost the election, but you forget that.

Democrats motto is to resist, resist, resist... and they are in it to win it because they’ve lost everything. They lie, use children, unidentified sources.., anything that they think will cause an emotional response that may sway a Trump supporter. They want a rush to judgement. They want people to use their emotions and not their brains.

I got a big raise this year at work and my 401k is doing excellent, better than ever. The economy is doing excellent despite Democrats hoping it will crash.

Trump has had the mainstream media, Hollywood, half of the Republicans and all the Democrats against him. He has done a great job especially considering what he has had to go through.

(Typed this on phone so all over place, sorry)

[Jondalar]

How’s he working for you now??? Not kiss butt????......except for Putin’s. And he threw your America under the bus. Good luck.

He is working great. He is working for me and my country, not for your country. I’m sure your news media isn’t too happy about that.

[Jondalar]

Your'e like a walking Fox/trump cliche quoter. "CNN, fake news. apology tour blah blah blah". Meanwhile his sons Oday and Qusay are flying around with secret service racking up hundreds of thousand of dollars in secret service bills paid for by the taxpayers while they open golf clubs. SICKENING.

And you’re like a walking Antifa member ready to bash someone over the head who doesn’t think like you. I LOVE FREE SPEECH! Oh I’ve just outed myself as a Republican.

[Jondalar]

The only thing here that's sickening is you attacking
a member of this forum yet again.

Seriously stop with the hate. They make medicine
for your type of nerve condition. Talk to your doctor
about it.

Thank you kind sir, but I’m not a snowflake. These people are just getting really frustrated because I’m not drinking their kool aide. I remember when they told Americans how bad Hillary was going to beat Trump. I never bought that narrative and I’m not going to start buying their narratives now. They can’t stand that.

[Jondalar]

I've tried my best not to comment these last few days...but I can't hold it in any longer.
If it wasn't potentially so serious I'd p!ss my pants laughing. What a goon. What a lying, slimy goon. Lying to associates, the press etc is one thing, (quite obviously) lying to the whole of your country is another thing. But this is not new. Even so, there are still plenty of you that just wont accept it, no matter what. Sad!

LOL I knew you were lying in wait... typical fuzzy 😊

[secondhandchain]

And you’re like a walking Antifa member ready to bash someone over the head who doesn’t think like you. I LOVE FREE SPEECH! Oh I’ve just outed myself as a Republican.

Why do you people pull out the Antifa crap to make a point about liberals being violent. They are a miniscule group of college student Anarchists. I've been to protests with thousands upon thousand of people and NOT ONE arrest. Such a weak and lame comparison.

[FuzzyPlum]

Half the country voted for Trump but there was not a single reporter representing us. The next night news reporters were on air with Democrats in front of millions of people trying to come up with narratives to impeach Trump.


Fake news.
Trump lost the popular vote and not everyone voted. Considerably less than half of the US voted for Trump.

[Jondalar]

Fake news.
Trump lost the popular vote and not everyone voted. Considerably less than half of the US voted for Trump.


Popular vote doesnt mean anything and you know it. The fact that she had all the money, 95% of the media and Hollywood on her side, was an experienced politician makes Trumps win all the more impressive and historic. Probably the biggest upset in the history of presidential politics and that was not reflected in coverage.

About the popular vote vs winning the election, I guess getting votes by supporting illegal immigrants only works if those anchor babies move out of California when they grow up, which it seems like many didn’t. All those thankful recepients of citizenship can stay in California and collect and thankfully they won’t affect our presidential elections. Democrats forgot about that.

[Jondalar]

Why do you people pull out the Antifa crap to make a point about liberals being violent. They are a miniscule group of college student Anarchists. I've been to protests with thousands upon thousand of people and NOT ONE arrest. Such a weak and lame comparison.

The KKK is a minuscule group of people but it gets pulled out all the time and used against the GOP. This is not the 1940s, so it’s very lame.

As a former Democrat, I can tell you, that many of us have left the Democratic Party because of the way they act and use identity politics. Many are walking away from it.

[FuzzyPlum]

Popular vote doesnt mean anything and you know it. The fact that she had all the money, 95% of the media and Hollywood on her side, was an experienced politician makes Trumps win all the more impressive and historic. Probably the biggest upset in the history of presidential politics and that was not reflected in coverage.

About the popular vote vs winning the election, I guess getting votes by supporting illegal immigrants only works if those anchor babies move out of California when they grow up, which it seems like many didn’t. All those thankful recepients of citizenship can stay in California and collect and thankfully they won’t affect our presidential elections. Democrats forgot about that.


I am well aware of your voting system.
I just felt it pertinent to challenge your view that half of America voted for the goon...they didn't. I don't however dispute he won fair and square (albeit with a bit of foreign help).

[Jondalar]

I am well aware of your voting system.
I just felt it pertinent to challenge your view that half of America voted for the goon...they didn't. I don't however dispute he won fair and square (albeit with a bit of foreign help).

With a bit of foreign help??? A narrative created by fake news. Apparently Russian interference wasn’t that important to Obama, Janet Lynch and Susan Rice since they knew about it long before the election and put a stop to investigating it. Of course they thought Hillary was going to win. Now that Trump is president it’s isuddenly a big conspiracy.

[jwd]

One thing that has become very apparent to me, is that we have, in the good ole' USA, a very corrupt and biased mainstream media. THAT, is A LOT scarier to me, than anything Trump has said or done. God help us all!

[secondhandchain]

The KKK is a minuscule group of people but it gets pulled out all the time and used against the GOP. This is not the 1940s, so it’s very lame.

As a former Democrat, I can tell you, that many of us have left the Democratic Party because of the way they act and use identity politics. Many are walking away from it.

Oh no Republicans don’t practice identity politics at all… What a joke.

[jwd]

Maxine, this is not the right message. SAD.

https://youtu.be/keET6bbERc4

[jwd]

Who elects people like this......oh never mind.

https://youtu.be/M47aqjkCMNc

[Jondalar]

One thing that has become very apparent to me, is that we have, in the good ole' USA, a very corrupt and biased mainstream media. THAT, is A LOT scarier to me, than anything Trump has said or done. God help us all!

The mainstream media is part of the Resistance. They are just another branch of the Democratic Party. They’ve lost sooo much respect because they don’t even try to hide it anymore.

[Jondalar]

Maxine, this is not the right message. SAD.

https://youtu.be/keET6bbERc4

She is such a joke. Thank God she is out and about though. She definitely helps Trump.

[FuzzyPlum]

NY Times op-ed
Current betting:

Mike Pence 2-3
Betsey DeVos 2-1
Jeff Sessions 5-2
Mike Pompeo, Steve Mnuchin, John Kelly, James Mattis 4-1
Nikki Haley 10-1
Javanka 15-1

[Jondalar]

NY Times op-ed
Current betting:

Mike Pence 2-3
Betsey DeVos 2-1
Jeff Sessions 5-2
Mike Pompeo, Steve Mnuchin, John Kelly, James Mattis 4-1
Nikki Haley 10-1
Javanka 15-1

Another anonymous source? My bet is they wrote it themselves to cause chaos since the mainstream media is just another branch of the Democratic Party. Hell they barely try to hide it anymore.

[FuzzyPlum]

Donald Trump; the World responds- Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Jondalar]

I’m sooo happy I voted for Donald Trump. Look at what the Democrats have become - guilty until proven innocent! They don’t even believe in Free Speech either. More and more people are jumping on the Trump Train everyday because they see what the Democrats have become.

[JohnL]

I’m sooo happy I voted for Donald Trump. Look at what the Democrats have become - guilty until proven innocent! They don’t even believe in Free Speech either. More and more people are jumping on the Trump Train everyday because they see what the Democrats have become.

And Republicans have become the party that just wants to degrade anyone who isnt a white Anglo-Saxon male. They have crucified Dr. Ford in the media and refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that what she is saying is true. Which, I believe, is true. Kavanaugh was spiteful and argumentative and lied about how he got into Yale in the first place. He does not belong on the Supreme Court. Bottom line is politicians suck these days more than ever. And now even the Supreme Court is lining up along party lines. It is sickening.

[Jondalar]

And Republicans have become the party that just wants to degrade anyone who isnt a white Anglo-Saxon male. They have crucified Dr. Ford in the media and refuse to even acknowledge the possibility that what she is saying is true. Which, I believe, is true. Kavanaugh was spiteful and argumentative and lied about how he got into Yale in the first place. He does not belong on the Supreme Court. Bottom line is politicians suck these days more than ever. And now even the Supreme Court is lining up along party lines. It is sickening.

Degrade! Spiteful and argumentative? If someone was telling lies about you and trying to ruin your life are you supposed to act happy? White Anglo Saxon male? Give me a break! She came up with a story and none of her so called witnesses can even corroborate it. There are huge holes in her story because it never happened. It’s a fake outrage ****tt show. She is just trying to delay.

Whenever someone starts talking about white Anglo Saxon males, it’s pretty easy to tell they been brainwashed washed by CNN and women studies Unbelievable and you’re probably a white male.

[SisterNightroad]

I've just seen this and I don't know where to share it so I'll just put it here:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140769834_10221323648855754_6769089757019629562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3NP9Po5tJikAX_AYPep&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=6c6cf04c04a3f727d88b3b84e3b18acf&oe=6033DD7A

[HomerMcvie]

I've just seen this and I don't know where to share it so I'll just put it here:

https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/140769834_10221323648855754_6769089757019629562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3NP9Po5tJikAX_AYPep&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=6c6cf04c04a3f727d88b3b84e3b18acf&oe=6033DD7A
It's already been posted in Rumours. Favorite album covers.

[AnthonyMI]

That song was a hair better than Show Them The Way. I dunno why her producer can’t get better material out of her anymore. She had such a way with melody and words. Maybe it was the drugs. Maybe it was Lindsey or some other person inspiring her. This…it’s not how she should go out. I hope there’s another Vault album in her.


Also, I find it sad, in a Miss Havishan way, that the reason she is a old spinster with no loves in her life but a collection of old Klingons like Waddy and Sharon, is exactly because she chose to kill her children with _________ and ______ and ________ (fill in the blank). She’s got her money and gory years and stories I’ll give her that. But as I’ve grown older I understand more and more that it’s not about money and fame and fortune. It’s about the people that you leave behind to remember you. Maybe many future generations will remember her, but I don’t think anyone will owe their very existence to her, unless there is a hidden love child out there she adopted out like Joni Mitchell. Had she chosen, even once, to raise one of her children, JUST ONE, perhaps she would have got off the drugs sooner and not been so selfish about her fame. Maybe she would have been able to balance work and love for a child. I feel like seeing her now, in the winter of her life, alone, (I mean. Living with Waddy and Sharon who are basically Skeletor Vampriress and an Undead Zombie) …Is a warning to not squander youth and chances at a full life.

[bombaysaffires]

That song was a hair better than Show Them The Way. I dunno why her producer can’t get better material out of her anymore. She had such a way with melody and words. Maybe it was the drugs. Maybe it was Lindsey or some other person inspiring her. This…it’s not how she should go out. I hope there’s another Vault album in her.


Also, I find it sad, in a Miss Havishan way, that the reason she is a old spinster with no loves in her life but a collection of old Klingons like Waddy and Sharon, is exactly because she chose to kill her children with _________ and ______ and ________ (fill in the blank). She’s got her money and gory years and stories I’ll give her that. But as I’ve grown older I understand more and more that it’s not about money and fame and fortune. It’s about the people that you leave behind to remember you. Maybe many future generations will remember her, but I don’t think anyone will owe their very existence to her, unless there is a hidden love child out there she adopted out like Joni Mitchell. Had she chosen, even once, to raise one of her children, JUST ONE, perhaps she would have got off the drugs sooner and not been so selfish about her fame. Maybe she would have been able to balance work and love for a child. I feel like seeing her now, in the winter of her life, alone, (I mean. Living with Waddy and Sharon who are basically Skeletor Vampriress and an Undead Zombie) …Is a warning to not squander youth and chances at a full life.

And maybe she wouldn't have (my bet) and that kid would have been (take your pick): born addicted, neglected while mommy focused on her career (who raised Loretta Lynn's kids? NOT her), injured while mommy was passed out in one of the "near-overdoses on the road" as described by Paul Fishkin, would have become addicted themselves, would have been left with inappropriate caregivers, etc etc etc......

Stevie has never been able to balance her love for a grown MAN and her work...she was NOT going to ever find that balance with a child.

I think it turned out best for her CHILD all the way around.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie has never been able to balance her love for a grown MAN and her work...she was NOT going to ever find that balance with a child.

I think it turned out best for her CHILD all the way around.
Agreed. She would have never been a good mother. She's STEVIE, 24/7.

[HomerMcvie]

People follow her blindly.

Abortion is such a hot button issue for so many people, that I think it's good that people know that she's not perfect, because,

People follow her blindly.

[AnthonyMI]

And maybe she wouldn't have (my bet) and that kid would have been (take your pick): born addicted, neglected while mommy focused on her career (who raised Loretta Lynn's kids? NOT her), injured while mommy was passed out in one of the "near-overdoses on the road" as described by Paul Fishkin, would have become addicted themselves, would have been left with inappropriate caregivers, etc etc etc......

Stevie has never been able to balance her love for a grown MAN and her work...she was NOT going to ever find that balance with a child.

I think it turned out best for her CHILD all the way around.

I think that’s what I mean. She is the ultimate victim of her choices. Not (just?) the dead children. And yes, her kids could have easily been Addicts and messed up beyond comprehension just like most Celebrities kids. Or they could have ended up like Jakob Dylan. Or the next Wilson Phillips. Or Lindsey’s.

What’s even more sad is she DID had some years in her 40s that she COULD have made things work to have love and family. She COULD have decided to have kids even in her late 40s before The Dance. when Lindsey has kids at 47-48, she could have focused on that instead of her Career, again, still ghad Fleetwood Mac, and still been a Gazillionaire. But. She’s selfish. And blames everyone but herself. Big Mean Lindsey had a family, love, and balanced Fleetwood Mac and a (not quite as successfully, but far more prolific in later years) solo career post The Dance. She didn’t have to be Miss Havishan. She ended up there. Nowadays instead of reflecting on her mistakes she’s harping on being able to do it all over again. I support her choice to choose. But it is tiresome to listen to her now be sad about it and act so jealousy toward Lindsey AND look at her Yes Men posse of Klingons that live off her.

[AnthonyMI]

People follow her blindly.

Abortion is such a hot button issue for so many people, that I think it's good that people know that she's not perfect, because,

People follow her blindly.

yes.

And.

And I think more youths are waking up to not just following blindly but seeing how people ended up years down the road. Now that we are a generation or two removed from the Sexual Revolution and the 1970’s things are becoming evident there are long term consequences . maybe instead of seeing Stevie and thinking “golly, if I choose to have sex drugs and rock and roll lifestyle and live life hard and fast and give up family I can end up an old crusty hag alone surrounded by my bags of money!! OR, I can chose family and love and balanced life and give up a few things”.

[HomerMcvie]

yes.

And.

And I think more youths are waking up to not just following blindly but seeing how people ended up years down the road. Now that we are a generation or two removed from the Sexual Revolution and the 1970’s things are becoming evident there are long term consequences . maybe instead of seeing Stevie and thinking “golly, if I choose to have sex drugs and rock and roll lifestyle and live life hard and fast and give up family I can end up an old crusty hag alone surrounded by my bags of money!! OR, I can chose family and love and balanced life and give up a few things”.

Perfect response. Thank you.

[HomerMcvie]

Can we move the misogynistic, right-wing circle jerk somewhere else? Accusing her of killing children? This is getting ridiculous.

ACCUSING? Stating facts isn't accusing.

And I'm neither right wing nor anti pro choice.

This is getting ridiculous. :laugh:

[AnthonyMI]

I am not a fan of a lot of her behaviors ( firing Lindsey etc.) but I am with you on this. It seemed like JD Vance had invaded the Ledge...gag

I think by writing a song about it and doing interviews about it open it up for discussion and opinions either way.

[AnthonyMI]

There are people on this planet who have actually killed actual children. Stevie Nicks did not kill children. Stevie Nicks had abortions.

Except she called them children.

“Don’t take me to the tower and take my CHILD away” has for the last 45 years been understood as code for her talking about her aborted children.


“Sara” was, in part, about her aborted child she imagined to have named Sara. Or at least that is what people used to think 20-25 years ago. You don’t name aborted… what do we call them, Fetuses? fetus is latin for “offspring”. Isn’t an offspring of a human called a Child? Just cuz you don’t like words doesn’t make them not true.

And most of “Goodbye Baby” she’s talking about a BABY.

“I who went to sleep as TWO” implies two separate and distinguishable lives. “Woke up as one” means one is dead. “now only you remain” she’s talking about herself in third(?) person. Pretty clear she’s talking about her children.

[AnthonyMI]

She can write whatever she likes in her poetry and songs...she can even regret her decision to not have children if that's how she feels, though that doesn't seem to reflect how she feels today. But no, having an abortion is not the same thing as killing a child, and people like you making dangerous false equivalencies are responsible for creating an environment where people are shot and killed for providing abortion services.

Hilarious. If someone’s choses to murder another human. “He made me do it by using Stevie’s words against her!” Won’t hold up in court.

People are allowed to have opinions and chose what they want to do. Legally. If Stevie wants to advertise how great being able to have free access to abortion was good for her career and lifestyle that is fine. It is my feeling that seeing what that did to her is not at all appealing. Choices has consequences. Maybe they were not evident for 30 or 40 years or more. But seeing her now I know more young ladies who do not see the long term appeal. Now they can make a more informed “choice” when it comes to their “right”

[FuzzyPlum]

So….2 days to go. Who wins the US election?
I have a hunch. And it makes me very worried.
All our American members made up their minds?

[David]

So….2 days to go. Who wins the US election?
I have a hunch. And it makes me very worried.
All our American members made up their minds?

I voted by mail last week. I voted for an independent candidate who fills me with confidence and admiration, somebody I have supported for several years.

The polling suggests that the race is so close that it’s impossible to say who will actually win. I haven’t been this excited since Dewey defeated Truman.

The most important issue for me as a voter is crime — all types, from white collar financial crime to street crime to breach of contract to slapping people in the face to constantly sh|tposting on the Ledge.

My bête noire is Dostoevsky’s Raskolnikov.

[FuzzyPlum]

I voted by mail last week. I voted for an independent candidate who fills me with confidence and admiration, somebody I have supported for several years.

The polling suggests that the race is so close that it’s impossible to say who will actually win. I haven’t been this excited since Dewey defeated Truman.

The most important issue for me as a voter is crime — all types, from white collar financial crime to street crime to breach of contract to slapping people in the face to constantly sh|tposting on the Ledge.

My bête noire is Dostoevsky’s Raskolnikov.

….thought crime was down in the US???!!!???

[HomerMcvie]

….thought crime was down in the US???!!!???

Shhhhhhh11111tttttt. Not in cities. I live and walk in downtown Nashville nearly every night, and I'm packing heat, and still scared. Last fall, they attempted to mug me 4 different times. Not successfully, though. I refuse to stop for them, even when they're demanding I do so. So I changed the route I take(even though it takes me longer to get to Broadway) to a more populated route(more witnesses).

One of the problems is that I'm usually walking alone, which instantly makes me a target. AND, it's NEVER one guy. It's always 2 or 3 together(fukcing cowards).

Friends from back home are always begging me to move back. I tell them, "if I survive the first time I get shot, THEN I'll move back home".

[David]

….thought crime was down in the US???!!!???

Here’s how statistics get politicized by used car salesmen (otherwise known as politicians).

Let’s take Los Angeles. Let’s say there were 5,000 murders in Los Angeles in 2015. Assume that there were 7,000 murders in 2020. In 2024, there were 6,000 murders. Crime is “down.”

When crime is “down,” it still might not be “low” at all. But it’s marketed to the public as if down equaled low. It’s language and rhetoric, whether you’re buying a used car or wondering how safe you are. They do the same thing with the economy. Someone is trying to persuade you that you’re safe or that something is affordable or that life is rosy. It’s like Lindsey telling you that his latest solo album is the best thing he’s ever done — or Stevie telling you that her latest song is her greatest. It’s like when the weatherman tells you to get to your basement in northern Arkansas when you don’t even have a basement, or Mazda trying to sell me a CX-50 hybrid in email marketing when the hybrid version isn’t even available yet.

[FuzzyPlum]

Well, being realistic, crime is never going to be low in your country, but so long as the trend is downwards, that’s a good thing. Of course, the concern is that less crime is being reported.


Violent crime
Preliminary data from 88 cities showed a 16.9% decline in murder, a 7.5% decrease in rape, a 3.4% decrease in aggravated assault, and a 5.2% decline in robbery in 2024. An Axios analysis of 69 major cities found a 6% decline in violent crime in the first half of 2024.

Property crime
In the first half of 2024, residential burglaries decreased by 14%, nonresidential burglaries decreased by 10%, larcenies decreased by 6%, and drug offenses decreased by 2%.

Motor vehicle theft
After increasing since 2020, motor vehicle thefts decreased by 18% in the first half of 2024.

Overall crime
FBI data shows a significant decline in violent crime and homicides. The Brennan Center for Justice reports a 5.7% decline in violent crime and a 4.3% decline in property crime.

[David]

Well, being realistic, crime is never going to be low in your country, but so long as the trend is downwards, that’s a good thing.

A downward trend is great. Everybody celebrates that (except the insane). But the news is not so good for American Jews, against whom hate crimes have risen, reaching a record high in 2023. It’s a 63 percent increase over the previous year, in fact.

There is always a localized fly on the ointment of statistics, and voters who characterize crime as their primary concern are perfectly reasonable to do so.

[SisterNightroad]

Damn it USA, you had one thing to do.

[Villavic]

I see the polls were wrong by a considerable margin, or there was a change at the last minute. As they announced close to a tie, I thought the results would be announced in about 2 days, or more, as has happened on previous occasions.

[Mr Scarrott]

Love and thoughts from across the pond to those Ledgies who will have found the election results difficult to bear. Your pain is felt here, too.

[FuzzyPlum]

Jeez…. No words can describe how I feel. Hey USA….good luck to you. I hope you get what you wanted. Just hope everything works out okay for the rest of us. Hey-ho

[sleepless child]

I have come to the conclusion that over half the country is just stupid. We saw this bad movie 8 years ago. So why in the world would you want to see it again

[WatchChain]

Love and thoughts from across the pond to those Ledgies who will have found the election results difficult to bear. Your pain is felt here, too.

Oh, the pain is real. In the past few days, our new leader-elect has suggested that the USA should make a bid to acquire sovereign nations who have no interest in joining us. If they refuse, he would impose tariffs to destroy their economy. We are also renaming the Gulf of Mexico because the Gulf of America has a nice ring. There's not enough room in this thread for me to list the hundreds of issues with this fascist grifter. The ignorance is equal parts laughable and tragic.

Trump has shown us exactly who he is. That's no surprise. The tragedy is that over 50% of the American people see absolutely nothing wrong with electing a narcissistic charlatan to represent them. None of his outlandish actions were a deal breaker. This is on us. Enjoy the s**t show from afar.

Hard lessons are waiting for some of these fools. Hard lessons, indeed. They are so obsessed with anything that remotely resembles socialism that they never bothered to google the term "oligarchy".

But, hey, we have some tacky $899 gold plated "Inauguration Wrist Watches" for sale along with some hideous looking gold electoral map sneakers. Yep, that's right, our president also sells cheap, tacky MERCH. We are now officially functioning like a trailer park with nuclear weapons. Intellectualism is shunned and his right wing voters are happy and well rested.

[sleepless child]

How correct you are Watchchain. I fear for this country. He is a traitor who tried to overthrow our government and is out walking around when he should be in jail. He is no leader. I can't understand for the life of me why someone would vote for him

[FuzzyPlum]

So….the recent treatment of the International Criminal Court, incendiary Middle Eastern policies, land-grab threats to Greenland and Panama, tariff threats to political and geographical allies (Canada, Mexico, EU), destabilisation of international trade, disregard for internationally established environmental consensus….
….is the USA now the World bad guy? Are you the baddies now?
Genuine question :shrug: