Why so few Stevie songs on their albums?

[bwboy]

Especially early on. Christine had 2 hits and Stevie had 1 from their first album, so I've always thought it interesting that Rumours only had 3 songs by Stevie, of which only 2 had her singing solo. Then, with Dreams going to #1 and Gold Dust Woman being such a concert staple, she still had the least number of songs on Tusk. After Bella Donna came out and was such a hit, I can see why the band would only get 3 songs from her, since after that she was focused on her solo career, but I wonder why it wasn't more of a level playing field for Rumours and Tusk?

[FuzzyPlum]

Especially early on. Christine had 2 hits and Stevie had 1 from their first album, so I've always thought it interesting that Rumours only had 3 songs by Stevie, of which only 2 had her singing solo. Then, with Dreams going to #1 and Gold Dust Woman being such a concert staple, she still had the least number of songs on Tusk. After Bella Donna came out and was such a hit, I can see why the band would only get 3 songs from her, since after that she was focused on her solo career, but I wonder why it wasn't more of a level playing field for Rumours and Tusk?

Song length. She always had the opportunity to cut her songs down in length and have more featured on albums but she always preferred to have long songs. If you add up the playing time for Stevie, Lindsey and Chris on each of their albums they tend to work out roughly the same. Indeed, despite having the least number of songs on Tusk she got the longest playing time (quite considerably longer than Christine, in fact). The same might be the case for other albums too.

[Macfan4life]

I guess its like looking at the glass half full or half empty. In the early days 10 songs on vinyl was the max. 10 does not divide by 3 equally. I don't think its a fair way to divide song places by commercial standards...otherwise you are simply a pop band that has no deeper interest than cranking out pop hits. 3 songs is a fair number of songs for a band fronted by 3 singers. Silver Springs would have been on Rumours if space was not an issue. IMHO the band was more than fair. Stevie had center mic for the band (something other bands would have never done for the new kid on the block). Stevie became a focal point for the band almost to the point many thought she was the lead singer. I see the band putting quality in the mix of also doing things fairly. The band also put Steive on the cover of Rumours.

[FuzzyPlum]

A quick bit of adding up (sorry if I've miss-counted) would suggest Stevie had the second longest amount of song time on both Fleetwood Mac and Rumours, behind Christine (assuming World Turning is given half to Lindsey and half to Chris). Lindsey had considerably less space on both albums (even when Blue Letter is attributed as a Lindsey song).

I think back then it would have been fair for Christine to have the most time on the albums as she was the established, recognizable voice and face of the band when L&S joined.

[dreamsunwind]

What everyone else said. She had long songs. Richard joked that she was allergic to short songs.

[bwboy]

Silver Springs would have been on Rumours if space was not an issue.

True, but she still would have only had 3 songs, because if they had left Silver Springs on, they wouldn't have put I Don't Want to Know on the album. But 3 songs written by AND sung by Stevie would have made them all equal, with The Chain being the eleventh song, written by all of them.

Not complaining, mind you. Rumours is pretty damn perfect. Just can't help thinking it's surprising Tusk didn't have another Stevie song on it. Length of the songs versus number of songs is very different, and Sisters of the Moon and Angel could have easily been shorter. True, Sara, Storms, and Beautiful Child have Stevie singing right up til the end, but the other 2 songs could have ended sooner without affecting the lyrics. Considering the success of Dreams and GDW, I guess I would have thought Stevie earned a little more presence on future albums.

[Macfan4life]

True, but she still would have only had 3 songs, because if they had left Silver Springs on, they wouldn't have put I Don't Want to Know on the album. But 3 songs written by AND sung by Stevie would have made them all equal, with The Chain being the eleventh song, written by all of them.

Not complaining, mind you. Rumours is pretty damn perfect. Just can't help thinking it's surprising Tusk didn't have another Stevie song on it. Length of the songs versus number of songs is very different, and Sisters of the Moon and Angel could have easily been shorter. True, Sara, Storms, and Beautiful Child have Stevie singing right up til the end, but the other 2 songs could have ended sooner without affecting the lyrics. Considering the success of Dreams and GDW, I guess I would have thought Stevie earned a little more presence on future albums.
I don't understand not counting I Don't Want To know because Lindsey is singing with her on it. I think their voices go very well together on the song and its Stevie's song that she offered up. She gets full credit. You seem to not put it down as a Stevie song because she is singing with Lindsey. The group does not think in fractions. They put songs on the album that are good and deserve to be there. IDWTK is a good song and it sounds good with both singers so they put it on the album. Christine let Lindsey sing Don't Stop, Hold me and Think About me. Those are still Christine songs and Christine contributions. But its a group effort.
I think she could have had another song on Tango if she was available more often and she had a good song that the group really liked. You seem to be equating number one songs or the front microphone status should give Stevie more song than the other singers. By that standard...Lindsey has the least "hits" so should be given the least amount of songs? That is corrupt thinking IMHO. I think her songs are very well written but really need Lindsey to put them in proper order and they can be quite long.
The Chain actually is a Stevie song. They had the music but no lyrics. They took her lyrics and added it to the song. Yes the other members contributed and they thought it was important to include all members in credit to make a point but they lyrics are mostly from Stevie. So she really has 3.5 songs on Rumours ;)

[aleuzzi]

Song length--as everyone else says. But by the time Mirage came around, the band was also working on a formula--three Stevie songs for every single album. Four or four-and-a-half songs for Christine; five for Lindsey. (That he got the most of all three only makes sense because he was the producer--and because as the sole male voice in the band, his songs balance the seven songs performed by women. That's my guess.) But then there is also the case that after Tusk, Stevie was hoarding her best material for her solo albums. Not until Say You Will do I sense FM is once again a priority commitment with re: to her songwriting.

[aleuzzi]

The Chain actually is a Stevie song. They had the music but no lyrics. They took her lyrics and added it to the song. Yes the other members contributed and they thought it was important to include all members in credit to make a point but they lyrics are mostly from Stevie. So she really has 3.5 songs on Rumours ;)

It's as much a Christine song as it is a Stevie song, with Lindsey holding the threads together.

Musically, The Chain would not be so without "Keep Me There." But then we wouldn't have the fantastic (and reworked) lyrics and melody on top of it without Stevie. So...

[FuzzyPlum]

Song length--as everyone else says. But by the time Mirage came around, the band was also working on a formula--three Stevie songs for every single album. Four or four-and-a-half songs for Christine; five for Lindsey. (That he got the most of all three only makes sense because he was the producer--and because as the sole male voice in the band, his songs balance the seven songs performed by women. That's my guess.) But then there is also the case that after Tusk, Stevie was hoarding her best material for her solo albums. Not until Say You Will do I sense FM is once again a priority commitment with re: to her songwriting.

Mirage is the one album I do think she was a bit short changed. Her song time on that album was considerably lower than both Christine and Lindsey to the tune of (the equivalent of) one whole song. Also, that was supposed to have been something of a 'come back' album. I'd have thought they'd do all they could to promote their major player as a means for shifting albums in light of Tusk's relative failure. She certainly wasn't short of material even if she was keeping her best stuff for her solo work and song for song she's arguably the strongest on Mirage.

[Macfan4life]

Mirage is the one album I do think she was a bit short changed. Her song time on that album was considerably lower than both Christine and Lindsey to the tune of (the equivalent of) one whole song. Also, that was supposed to have been something of a 'come back' album. I'd have thought they'd do all they could to promote their major player as a means for shifting albums in light of Tusk's relative failure. She certainly wasn't short of material even if she was keeping her best stuff for her solo work and song for song she's arguably the strongest on Mirage.
I can see this. I do remember an interview in 1982 with Lindsey stating "they were not playing his Mirage songs on the radio" or something like that. Since Stevie was a huge solo star it could have been a subliminal attempt to remind everyone Stevie was only one member of a 5 piece band. I remember many saying that Stevie was the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac. That is what many people thought and maybe Lindsey tried to dampen the limelight a bit from her. I also believe Lindsey getting more songs was an attempt to prevent the Mac of being a "girl singer" band (to the public).

[SteveMacD]

I think back then it would have been fair for Christine to have the most time on the albums as she was the established, recognizable voice and face of the band when L&S joined.
Also, they were still dealing with an ongoing lawsuit over who owned the Fleetwood Mac name.

[bombaysaffires]

i also think at least in the beginning she wasn't seen as the major contributor that she has become. She always talks about how in the beginning she was just happy to be there and perhaps somewhat exaggeratedly says that because she was just a "chick singer" and not a real musician she was in somewhat of a "lesser" position. So I can see this being a conscious or unconscious factor for the first album and even for Rumours because wasn't OMH a bigger hit than Rhiannon charting-wise? I think Christine was obviously the senior songwriter from FM and Lindsey being the songwriter/arranger/producer on BN material he had more clout in the beginning than Stevie. :shrug: And in those days she deferred a lot to his decisions on which of her songs to include. Then they just got into this 3 song thing and it became her mantra......kinda like the "we break for 3 years" thing in recent years. After Rumours and Tusk I agree she may have been holding onto certain songs for solo work, though she's always claimed that she shows them everything and they can use whichever they want.

[AlexD]

If you think Stevie doesn't have a lot of songs on their albums, just wait until you see the number of songs she has on the next album coming out.

[jbrownsjr]

If you think Stevie doesn't have a lot of songs on their albums, just wait until you see the number of songs she has on the next album coming out.

And the walls came tumbling down!!!

[HomerMcvie]

I remember many saying that Stevie was the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac. That is what many people thought and maybe Lindsey tried to dampen the limelight a bit from her.

HAHA! Last Saturday in Nashville, when I was seeing a (n awesome) FM tribute band, some dude in the crowd kept asking me, "how tall is the lead singer?"(because she was REALLY short, just like Stevie)
Well, I wasn't HAVING it!
Me> "FM doesn't have a lead singer".
Douche > "Yeah, they do, the chick in the middle"
Me> "NOOO, FM has THREE singers. There isn't one lead singer!"
Douche > "Yeah there is, that girl in the middle"
Me > "well, you're wrong. Stevie ISN'T the lead singer!!!!"
Douche > walks away, perturbed. :p

He clearly picked the wrong guy to axe about FM having a lead singer!!!:D

[Macfan4life]

HAHA! Last Saturday in Nashville, when I was seeing a (n awesome) FM tribute band, some dude in the crowd kept asking me, "how tall is the lead singer?"(because she was REALLY short, just like Stevie)
Well, I wasn't HAVING it!
Me> "FM doesn't have a lead singer".
Douche > "Yeah, they do, the chick in the middle"
Me> "NOOO, FM has THREE singers. There isn't one lead singer!"
Douche > "Yeah there is, that girl in the middle"
Me > "well, you're wrong. Stevie ISN'T the lead singer!!!!"
Douche > walks away, perturbed. :p

He clearly picked the wrong guy to axe about FM having a lead singer!!!:D
Ha ha. Good for you. I think even Lindsey commented on this on some recent interview I heard. The group was seen as having Stevie as the lead singer and center stage. I am sure this drove Lindsey nuts. At least Stevie was grateful and recognized that no established band with a singer already would just let someone walk into the band and take over center stage.

[dreamsunwind]

i also think at least in the beginning she wasn't seen as the major contributor that she has become. She always talks about how in the beginning she was just happy to be there and perhaps somewhat exaggeratedly says that because she was just a "chick singer" and not a real musician she was in somewhat of a "lesser" position. So I can see this being a conscious or unconscious factor for the first album and even for Rumours because wasn't OMH a bigger hit than Rhiannon charting-wise? I think Christine was obviously the senior songwriter from FM and Lindsey being the songwriter/arranger/producer on BN material he had more clout in the beginning than Stevie. :shrug: And in those days she deferred a lot to his decisions on which of her songs to include. Then they just got into this 3 song thing and it became her mantra......kinda like the "we break for 3 years" thing in recent years. After Rumours and Tusk I agree she may have been holding onto certain songs for solo work, though she's always claimed that she shows them everything and they can use whichever they want.

Oh I've always believed that after Bella Donna she's saved her favorite or what she thought were great songs for her solo material. Gypsy was kind of a whatever song (in my opinion) that became a classic because of the production, I listened to the Tom Petty version and some of the other demos/outtakes and it would have been forgettable imo. Which is understandable, but I 100% believe that after her solo career took off, things just weren't the same with her attitude towards the band.

[aleuzzi]

Oh I've always believed that after Bella Donna she's saved her favorite or what she thought were great songs for her solo material. Gypsy was kind of a whatever song (in my opinion) that became a classic because of the production, I listened to the Tom Petty version and some of the other demos/outtakes and it would have been forgettable imo. Which is understandable, but I 100% believe that after her solo career took off, things just weren't the same with her attitude towards the band.

Exactly. Two of her three Mirage songs were from demos more than five years old.

[HomerMcvie]

Ha ha. Good for you. I think even Lindsey commented on this on some recent interview I heard. The group was seen as having Stevie as the lead singer and center stage. I am sure this drove Lindsey nuts. At least Stevie was grateful and recognized that no established band with a singer already would just let someone walk into the band and take over center stage.

Thanks.

You know, if she was talented enough to actually play an instrument(not counting her ONE "F" chord on a 100K piano :rolleyes: ), people would consider her a "band member".

But the fact that she LACKS that talent, makes her the "leader singer"???

Oh Moses, smell the roses!!!

[Macfan4life]

Thanks.

You know, if she was talented enough to actually play an instrument(not counting her ONE "F" chord on a 100K piano :rolleyes: ), people would consider her a "band member".

But the fact that she LACKS that talent, makes her the "leader singer"???

Oh Moses, smell the roses!!!
Have you forgotten about the cowbell?
More cowbell baby!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_MWeOs8Ffg

[singertobe]

Song length. She always had the opportunity to cut her songs down in length and have more featured on albums but she always preferred to have long songs. If you add up the playing time for Stevie, Lindsey and Chris on each of their albums they tend to work out roughly the same. Indeed, despite having the least number of songs on Tusk she got the longest playing time (quite considerably longer than Christine, in fact). The same might be the case for other albums too.

Her songs don't seem that long

[HomerMcvie]

Have you forgotten about the cowbell?
More cowbell baby!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_MWeOs8Ffg

I'll give her a cowbell....

Around her neck!:D

[bwboy]

Her songs don't seem that long

On Tusk, Beautiful Child, Storms, and Sisters of the Moon are over 5 minutes, I think, and Sara is over 6 and 1/2 minutes, while many of Lindsey's songs are under 3 and 1/2 minutes.

[bombaysaffires]

Thanks.

You know, if she was talented enough to actually play an instrument(not counting her ONE "F" chord on a 100K piano :rolleyes: ), people would consider her a "band member".

But the fact that she LACKS that talent, makes her the "leader singer"???

Oh Moses, smell the roses!!!

the thing is, if she put some effort into it, she could be not bad. Even Christine once said she thought Stevie should play onstage so she could be seen as a musician not just a singer. But that would take a discipline she doesn't have.

If you listen to earlier demos her playing is not bad at all. Not Great, but decent. Sisters of the Moon comes to mind. I think when she joined the band her much lower skill levels were much more exposed and she tried a little harder. She even played guitar onstage early on. But Lindsey kinda nagged at her to practice and have the discipline and she didn't (like when she talks about having taken guitar lessons growing up... she learned 3 or 4 chords, enough to go write one song, and then decided hey i don't need to keep taking lessons!). And very quickly she was never onstage with a guitar again and her piano playing was back to ding-ding-dong. It's so sad to me to hear her more recent demos even things like Thrown Down where it's just her banging on one same chord over and over and over again..... her melodies are good but man.....when I compare that to Sisters, it's so sad. But when you're a legend you can poop out random notes and someone will professionally arrange them for you and turn them into gold and you can delude yourself it was all you.

[FuzzyPlum]

Her songs don't seem that long

Sara: 6.22
Storms: 5.31
Sisters of the Moon: 4.42
Angel: 4.54
Beautiful Child: 5.21
Total: 26.50 (5 songs)

Christine songs on Tusk: 20.18 (6 songs)
Lindsey songs on Tusk: 26.54 (9 songs)

I stand corrected on a previous post I made suggesting Stevie had the longest song time on Tusk. In fact Lindsey's songs totaled longer than hers by 4 seconds.

[HomerMcvie]

the thing is, if she put some effort into it, she could be not bad. Even Christine once said she thought Stevie should play onstage so she could be seen as a musician not just a singer. But that would take a discipline she doesn't have.

It's so sad to me to hear her more recent demos even things like Thrown Down where it's just her banging on one same chord over and over and over again..... her melodies are good but man.....when I compare that to Sisters, it's so sad. But when you're a legend you can poop out random notes and someone will professionally arrange them for you and turn them into gold and you can delude yourself it was all you.

Agreed. You have to be obsessed with it, to become good. She never had that.

Amen to the amen, on the latter... DELUDED is a very good word.

[Macfan4life]

Agreed. You have to be obsessed with it, to become good. She never had that.

Amen to the amen, on the latter... DELUDED is a very good word.
Stevie plays a mean tambourine :eek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCdIN-02jYI

[secondhandchain]

I can see this. I do remember an interview in 1982 with Lindsey stating "they were not playing his Mirage songs on the radio" or something like that. Since Stevie was a huge solo star it could have been a subliminal attempt to remind everyone Stevie was only one member of a 5 piece band. I remember many saying that Stevie was the lead singer of Fleetwood Mac. That is what many people thought and maybe Lindsey tried to dampen the limelight a bit from her. I also believe Lindsey getting more songs was an attempt to prevent the Mac of being a "girl singer" band (to the public).

It has been said many times its about song LENGTH. End of thread.

[HomerMcvie]

It has been said many times its about song LENGTH. End of thread.

Thanks, Adolph. :lol:

[Macfan4life]

It has been said many times its about song LENGTH. End of thread.
Not always true. Stevie had one of the shortest songs on Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Mirage and some of the shortest songs on Tango.
When I see you again 3:52
Welcome to the Room Sara 3:45
Seven Wonders 3:45

Stevie can be wordy and she can deliver long demos. However she is not a musician and cannot make her songs long musically like in Gypsy. The amazing long guitar ending on Gypsy was done by Lindsey and it sounds great.

You may be entitled to your own opinion but not entitled to your own facts ;)

IMHO I don't think Stevie saved her best songs for her solo career especially for Mirage. Most of Bella Donna was written 7 years before the album came out. For Mirage she offered up some of her best work from classic demos: Smile At You, Gypsy, That's Alright (from Buckingham/Nicks), and something more current but beautifully written... Straight Back. I think Straight Back is one of her best written songs. It just seems after Wild Heart during the drug haze her songs were not as good. I don't care for her songs on Tango but they are much better than anything on RAL IMHO.

[singertobe]

Sara: 6.22
Storms: 5.31
Sisters of the Moon: 4.42
Angel: 4.54
Beautiful Child: 5.21
Total: 26.50 (5 songs)

Christine songs on Tusk: 20.18 (6 songs)
Lindsey songs on Tusk: 26.54 (9 songs)

I stand corrected on a previous post I made suggesting Stevie had the longest song time on Tusk. In fact Lindsey's songs totaled longer than hers by 4 seconds.
Dang! They feel so short though!

[SisterNightroad]

IMHO I don't think Stevie saved her best songs for her solo career especially for Mirage. Most of Bella Donna was written 7 years before the album came out. For Mirage she offered up some of her best work from classic demos: Smile At You, Gypsy, That's Alright (from Buckingham/Nicks), and something more current but beautifully written... Straight Back. I think Straight Back is one of her best written songs.
Agree, and don't forget If You Were My Love, I think the FM Demo is the best version of this song.

[stevierocks87]

I've often pondered this question myself- especially on Mirage like others have said, when her voice is just GOLD and she brought so much great material to the table. I understand why her contributions were limited on Tango.

A related question I've been wrestling with with all the now officially released demos and outtakes- WHY were so many of Stevie's INCREDIBLE backing vocals taken off? Especially on Rumours- You Make Lovin' Fun and Oh Daddy. Her harmony on Oh Daddy especially is just perfect, and I love her on "Lovin".

The new version of I Know I'm Not Wrong with Stevie is by far my favorite version. It's rough but could have been cleaned up to still include some backup. Same with Book of Love- she sounds so great on that track!

[24karatstevie]

I've often pondered this question myself- especially on Mirage like others have said, when her voice is just GOLD and she brought so much great material to the table. I understand why her contributions were limited on Tango.

A related question I've been wrestling with with all the now officially released demos and outtakes- WHY were so many of Stevie's INCREDIBLE backing vocals taken off? Especially on Rumours- You Make Lovin' Fun and Oh Daddy. Her harmony on Oh Daddy especially is just perfect, and I love her on "Lovin".

The new version of I Know I'm Not Wrong with Stevie is by far my favorite version. It's rough but could have been cleaned up to still include some backup. Same with Book of Love- she sounds so great on that track!
I agree, Stevie's background vocals are some of my favorite of all her vocals. She does harmony so well. It really is a shame that so many never made it to the final versions. Hold Me is one of my all time favorite FM songs as is, but when I heard the early version with Stevie singing with Chris, I loved it even more!

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=Macfan4life;1202072]Not always true. Stevie had one of the shortest songs on Fleetwood Mac, Rumours, Mirage and some of the shortest songs on Tango.
When I see you again 3:52
Welcome to the Room Sara 3:45
Seven Wonders 3:45

Stevie can be wordy and she can deliver long demos. However she is not a musician and cannot make her songs long musically like in Gypsy. The amazing long guitar ending on Gypsy was done by Lindsey and it sounds great.

You may be entitled to your own opinion but not entitled to your own facts ;)
Well she wasn't there for Tango so didn't derserve it. I think after Mirage things changed because she wasn't as involved. So is her running time on Mirage MUCH shorter then the others?

[FuzzyPlum]

So is her running time on Mirage MUCH shorter then the others?

Are people really so incapable of looking things up?
Stevie's songs on Mirage were the equivalent of one whole song less than Chris and Lindsey;

Stevie: 11.50
Christine: 15.51
Lindsey: 15.14

[bombaysaffires]

Are people really so incapable of looking things up?
Stevie's songs on Mirage were the equivalent of one whole song less than Chris and Lindsey;

Stevie: 11.50
Christine: 15.51
Lindsey: 15.14

yeah but she had at least one whole song LESS than they did, so of course her time would reflect this.:shrug:

[FuzzyPlum]

yeah but she had at least one whole song LESS than they did, so of course her time would reflect this.:shrug:

yeah but the point is, on previous albums she had less songs but roughly the equivalent time. On Mirage she's hard done by as she has less songs but also less time.
Are her Mirage songs longer? yes and no. Two are relatively long compared to most songs on the album but one is fairly average length. The long ones aren't the longest though... WYWH is the longest overall. In general her Mirage songs are much shorter than Tusk. I guess as they knew Tusk was going to be a double album they didn't need to push her as much to cut them down.

[Macfan4life]

Agree, and don't forget If You Were My Love, I think the FM Demo is the best version of this song.
Stevie as well as the rest of the band were at the apex of their career in 1981-1982. Stevie had a huge catalog of brilliant songs. Bella Donna is a masterpiece. Stevie's songs on Mirage are top notch. I wish the angry version of Smile at You made it to Mirage and Oh Diane was dropped. It would have given Mirage more depth for sure. This is just my opinion but Lindsey was definitely not going to give Stevie anymore songs than 3 on Mirage. While recording the album, Bella Donna was still cranking out singles and high on the charts. I see him grabbing the wheel to make sure the new album was not going to be Bella Donna 2 or make Stevie even a bigger star. I don't see Stevie protesting because she just had the biggest moment in her life as a recording artist.

[bwboy]

Macfan, your reasoning makes a lot of sense. And I think Mirage would have been a stronger album if they had cut Oh Diane and put in Stevie's song in it's place.

[aleuzzi]

Macfan, your reasoning makes a lot of sense. And I think Mirage would have been a stronger album if they had cut Oh Diane and put in Sfevie's song in it's place.

Or removed Empire State. Or both songs!

[secondhandchain]

Stevie as well as the rest of the band were at the apex of their career in 1981-1982. Stevie had a huge catalog of brilliant songs. Bella Donna is a masterpiece. Stevie's songs on Mirage are top notch. I wish the angry version of Smile at You made it to Mirage and Oh Diane was dropped. It would have given Mirage more depth for sure. This is just my opinion but Lindsey was definitely not going to give Stevie anymore songs than 3 on Mirage. While recording the album, Bella Donna was still cranking out singles and high on the charts. I see him grabbing the wheel to make sure the new album was not going to be Bella Donna 2 or make Stevie even a bigger star. I don't see Stevie protesting because she just had the biggest moment in her life as a recording artist.

I do agree that Oh diane could have been dropped. ugh.

[bwboy]

Or removed Empire State. Or both songs!

Very true. Oh Diane is repetitious and Empire State is just... there. Even Goodbye Angel is more interesting than those two.

[SteveMacD]

Macfan, your reasoning makes a lot of sense. And I think Mirage would have been a stronger album if they had cut Oh Diane and put in Stevie's song in it's place.
Except it was a minor hit in Europe.

[FuzzyPlum]

Except it was a minor hit in Europe.

I'd say it was much more than a minor hit in the UK. It was only the second top 10 single and one of only 5 top tens in total from this line up in the UK.

Given a choice between Oh Diane and Empire State...I'd gladly take Oh Diane any day.

[jbrownsjr]

I'd say it was much more than a minor hit in the UK. It was only the second top 10 single and one of only 5 top tens in total from this line up in the UK.

Given a choice between Oh Diane and Empire State...I'd gladly take Oh Diane any day.

I may be the only person that enjoys Empire State. It's so Law and Order.. lol

[HomerMcvie]

I may be the only person that enjoys Empire State. It's so Law and Order.. lol

Nope. I've never understood the hate it gets. Not my favorite, but far from my least! Oh Diane, I get it(the hate). The Popeye song, too.

[SisterNightroad]

Personally I've reevaluated Empire State a lot after hearing the demo out of last year's Mirage reissue.

[jbrownsjr]

Personally I've reevaluated Empire State a lot after hearing the demo out of last year's Mirage reissue.

That helped it for me, too.

[michelej1]

I may be the only person that enjoys Empire State. It's so Law and Order.. lol

It's a fine song. It doesn't make me avert my eyes like Family Man, that's for sure.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

It's a fine song. It doesn't make me avert my eyes like Family Man, that's for sure.

Michele

The guitar on Family Man sucks me in. Just like it does with Slow Dancing.. (at the end) I feel there should have been an extended version of Slow Dancing with that acoustic guitar continuing.

[SisterNightroad]

That helped it for me, too.
I think it is one of the few examples in which Lindsey's production can mar a song instead of embellish it.

[michelej1]

The guitar on Family Man sucks me in. Just like it does with Slow Dancing.. (at the end) I feel there should have been an extended version of Slow Dancing with that acoustic guitar continuing.

I love Slow Dancing.

Thinking of songs that I wish had an extended version, Northern Star would be one of them.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I love Slow Dancing.

Thinking of songs that I wish had an extended version, Northern Star would be one of them.

Michele

I love Northern Star!! Yes, I wish she had indulged more in the keyboard solo, too.

hmmm extended versions... I always thought Forgiveness could have been extended .. at the end when she sings, "and the spell that you cast......

[Macfan4life]

I love Slow Dancing.

Thinking of songs that I wish had an extended version, Northern Star would be one of them.

Michele
I think Slow Dancing would have charted better than Go Insane as the first single. The video was better too.

[bombaysaffires]

I think Slow Dancing would have charted better than Go Insane as the first single. The video was better too.

:eek: :eek:

[jbrownsjr]

:eek: :eek:

I like the end where he is stuck in the TV. lol

[michelej1]

I liked the Slow Dancing video, but it was campy. It made me smile and I appreciated the silliness and I am WAY into vampires too ... But I like what Go Insane's video said.

I actually liked Go Insane as the single and it made a nice distinction between his solo product and his FM songs. Putting it out first told people to expect a contrast. Whereas I think Trouble being released first gave people the wrong impression of what the rest of Law and Order would be like.

Michele

[jbrownsjr]

I liked the Slow Dancing video, but it was campy. It made me smile and I appreciated the silliness and I am WAY into vampires too ... But I like what Go Insane's video said.

I actually liked Go Insane as the single and it made a nice distinction between his solo product and his FM songs. Putting it out first told people to expect a contrast. Whereas I think Trouble being released first gave people the wrong impression of what the rest of Law and Order would be like.

Michele

Hmmm I think I have to watch the Slow Dancing Vid again. It's been so long.