The REAL Rhiannon [Archive]

singertobe

12-30-2016, 12:41 AM

So I just got my copy of the Welsh Mabinogi and it begins with a guide to pronouncing Welsh names. Naturally Rhiannon was one of those names and I found out WE'VE ALL BEEN WRONG! Its pronounced "Hree-ahn-on."
I would so love to share this with Ms. Nicks herself. What do you think she'd have to say for herself?

annabellee

12-30-2016, 01:11 AM

And would you really say that to Bob Dylan?:]

James89

12-30-2016, 10:08 AM

FuzzyPlum

12-30-2016, 05:32 PM

I'm Welsh so I can shed a little light on this. Welsh speakers would pronounce it like that but I have two friends called Rhiannon and their names are pronounced just like the song so it depends on if you speak Welsh or not really. :)

...and given the majority of Welsh people do not speak fluent Welsh I'd say the majority of people would pronounce it as it is in the song- though Welsh accents can sometimes be a bit more drawn out so Welsh people would say something that sounds like 'Reeanaaan' (at least, that's how they pronounce it in the valleys).

singertobe

12-30-2016, 06:20 PM

And would you really say that to Bob Dylan?:]

Yes! Yes I would :D

pryderi

12-31-2016, 02:21 PM

I believe she did an interview years back, someone help me, where she pronounced it the correct way but then said that Rhiannon (the song pronunciation) was the prettiest way to say it.

bombaysaffires

12-31-2016, 02:33 PM

I believe she did an interview years back, someone help me, where she pronounced it the correct way but then said that Rhiannon (the song pronunciation) was the prettiest way to say it.

yes, she did.

she's well aware of the correct Welsh pronunciation but also that it's easiest for people to say and remember as reeeaaannon

singertobe

12-31-2016, 03:02 PM

paleshadow

12-31-2016, 06:05 PM

I wanna see that interview.
While on the topic of Rhiannon, have you guys ever thought of Disney doing the movie? Since she marries a prince, that technically makes her a princess, and I think she would be a perfect addition to their princess line-up.

She was already an immortal Princess before she married Pwyll. Part of the beauty of that story is that she gave up that life to marry a mortal. It would be cool to see the story on screen, but I think Disney would make it too cutesy.

MoonSister75

01-01-2017, 03:26 AM

WE'VE ALL BEEN WRONG! Its pronounced "Hree-ahn-on."

I've been learning Welsh for many years, but it's been a very slow process...

Most non-Welsh speakers would pronounce is as Stevie does.

Welsh speakers use an aspirate sound for the Rh - as you have written... Hree..(I always think of it as rolling the r, but it can also be described as - h followed by r with a hiss)
Welsh speakers also emphasize the second syllable - Hree ahn On

The rh and stressing of second syllable are described well here - https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Welsh/Pronunciation

Happy New Year to all Stevie/FM fans :0)

SisterNightroad

01-01-2017, 01:17 PM

She was already an immortal Princess before she married Pwyll. Part of the beauty of that story is that she gave up that life to marry a mortal. It would be cool to see the story on screen, but I think Disney would make it too cutesy.
What about Tim Burton? I mean as a movie, not animation.

singertobe

01-01-2017, 04:56 PM

What about Tim Burton? I mean as a movie, not animation.

Oh dear me NO!

StreetAngel86

01-01-2017, 06:56 PM

Welsh speakers use an aspirate sound for the Rh - as you have written... Hree..(I always think of it as rolling the r, but it can also be described as - h followed by r with a hiss)
Welsh speakers also emphasize the second syllable - Hree ahn On

Happy New Year to all Stevie/FM fans :0)

and now you've got me pronouncing it in the COUNT's voice :lol:
one ... one HreeARNon ... :lol:

MoonSister75

01-02-2017, 08:26 AM

and now you've got me pronouncing it in the COUNT's voice :lol:
one ... one HreeARNon ... :lol:

Ah yes Count von Count... He featured on a kids program over here during Christmas - The Furchester Hotel. I was surprised to see he's still around :nod:

I imagine The Count saying it with a long drawn out aahhhnnn

I think in Welsh it's a shorter ann in the middle, and the emphasis is in the higher tone. Rhi ann (up) on (down again)

(I could be wrong, feel free to correct me anyone...)

FuzzyPlum

01-02-2017, 03:57 PM

Hey singertobe,
I don't think these really shed any light on different Rhiannon pronunciations but they are Welsh Rhiannon songs that you may be interested in hearing;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dJo84QtaD8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wckHKz02Ho

Also, this is Welsh comedian Rhod Gilbert on learning the Welsh language;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvScUgHcA8Y&list=RDqvScUgHcA8Y#t=5

Also, Ali G (Sacha Baron Cohen) learning Welsh;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnFW5mgPbk

singertobe

01-02-2017, 04:46 PM

singertobe

01-11-2017, 06:32 PM

Oh my gosh you guys the Mabinogian promotes rape! I'm not kidding! WTH?!!!!

FuzzyPlum

01-12-2017, 01:47 AM

Oh my gosh you guys the Mabinogian promotes rape! I'm not kidding! WTH?!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised. The stories are many hundreds of years old. I think it would be fair to say attitudes to women were slightly different back then. Far from being the sanitized, modern romantic interpretations I think the stories were originally quite bizarre, mean and vicious at times.

singertobe

01-12-2017, 05:51 PM

I wouldn't be surprised. The stories are many hundreds of years old. I think it would be fair to say attitudes to women were slightly different back then. Far from being the sanitized, modern romantic interpretations I think the stories were originally quite bizarre, mean and vicious at times.

Oh yeah I knew before reading it there was gone be some bizarre and twisted stuff. I've already read all the Grimm's stories so I know things were pretty dark back then. But rape? I most DEFINITELY wasn't expecting that. Stevie would be so disappointed.

Actually do you think she's gotten a chance to read it after all these years?

SisterNightroad

01-13-2017, 12:05 PM

Oh yeah I knew before reading it there was gone be some bizarre and twisted stuff. I've already read all the Grimm's stories so I know things were pretty dark back then. But rape? I most DEFINITELY wasn't expecting that. Stevie would be so disappointed.

Actually do you think she's gotten a chance to read it after all these years?
She did read it at least partially:

I read a book called Triad. It was just a stupid little paperback that I found somewhere at somebody's house laying on the couch. It was all about this girl named Rhiannon. I was so taken with the name that I thought, "I've got to write something about this." And I sat down at the piano, and I started writing this song about a woman that was all involved with these birds and magic. Come to find out years after I've written the song that in fact Rhiannon was the goddess of steeds, maker of birds. Her three birds sang music, and when something was happening in war, you would see this horse come in and it was Rhiannon. This is all in the Welsh translation of The Mabinogion, their book of mythology. When she came, you'd kind of black out then wake up and the danger would be gone, and you'd see the three birds flying off, and you'd hear this little song. So there was, in fact, a song of Rhiannon. I had no idea about any of this. Then somebody sent me a set of four books written by a lady named Evangeline Walton, who is now dead. She spent her whole life translating The Mabinogian and the story of Rhiannon. She lived in Tuscon. I went there in 1977, after "Rhiannon" had been a huge hit. Her house was totally Rhiannon. She spent her whole life on the story of Rhiannon. She never married - she in essence had almost become Rhiannon, and it was trippy. She had heard about the song. She told me about her life and how she had been entranced by the name, just like I had. It's so interesting, because her last book was 1974, and that's right when I wrote "Rhiannon." So it's like her work ended and my work began. - Performing Songwriter magazine, 2003

singertobe

01-14-2017, 10:49 AM

She did read it at least partially:

I read a book called Triad. It was just a stupid little paperback that I found somewhere at somebody's house laying on the couch. It was all about this girl named Rhiannon. I was so taken with the name that I thought, "I've got to write something about this." And I sat down at the piano, and I started writing this song about a woman that was all involved with these birds and magic. Come to find out years after I've written the song that in fact Rhiannon was the goddess of steeds, maker of birds. Her three birds sang music, and when something was happening in war, you would see this horse come in and it was Rhiannon. This is all in the Welsh translation of The Mabinogion, their book of mythology. When she came, you'd kind of black out then wake up and the danger would be gone, and you'd see the three birds flying off, and you'd hear this little song. So there was, in fact, a song of Rhiannon. I had no idea about any of this. Then somebody sent me a set of four books written by a lady named Evangeline Walton, who is now dead. She spent her whole life translating The Mabinogian and the story of Rhiannon. She lived in Tuscon. I went there in 1977, after "Rhiannon" had been a huge hit. Her house was totally Rhiannon. She spent her whole life on the story of Rhiannon. She never married - she in essence had almost become Rhiannon, and it was trippy. She had heard about the song. She told me about her life and how she had been entranced by the name, just like I had. It's so interesting, because her last book was 1974, and that's right when I wrote "Rhiannon." So it's like her work ended and my work began. - Performing Songwriter magazine, 2003

Huh? I haven't read anything about her riding into war. In fact she seems to be a very minor character in the Mabinogian...

singertobe

01-25-2017, 12:06 PM

Now halfway through the Mabinogian and I am VERY disappointed. Its SSOOOOOO BORING!!!!!!!!