why are SN fans so bitter about FM?

[elle]

i'm really confused.

SN has had a great solo career. she has been revered as a rock legend. she seems so happy lately, on a very successful tour with another legendary woman rocker. her tour seems to be everything her fans have been dreaming of for years and decades.

so why do her fans sound so bitter towards the rest of FM, and towards other fans?

[bwboy]

Hmmm, maybe posters like secondhandchain and homer can answer why they say the things they say about Stevie...

[aleuzzi]

i'm really confused.

SN has had a great solo career. she has been revered as a rock legend. she seems so happy lately, on a very successful tour with another legendary woman rocker. her tour seems to be everything her fans have been dreaming of for years and decades.

so why do her fans sound so bitter towards the rest of FM, and towards other fans?

I think you know why. But it's good to start a thread and get those reasons out, I guess, especially since FM fans have nothing else to do but complain and shout in frustration.

Stevie fans are protective of her. They sense anger coming from the band fans who are, righty or wrongly, pinning all of the blame for no new FM music on her. Most Stevie fans wouldn't be disappointed if she left the band for good and continued to do her own thing. Band fans want the band to be more than an oldies troupe reliving former glories over and over again, less imaginatively each time. If this means as a foursome, a certain subsection of fans (myself included) are happy to see the back of her.

Stevie works hard in both contexts. She's not lazy. But with FM she isn't generating anything anymore. It's all posture and posing these days, retelling and reselling the same yarns.

[Danielle]

I am not bitter at all. "My girl" is out there doing what she loves most and the critics are raving about her concerts! The audiences are thrilled, and she looks overjoyed and sounds wonderful. I couldn't be happier actually.

Everyone should get to do whatever they want to do. As long as Stevie is happy, I am happy too.

[jbrownsjr]

Because they are self absorbed just like her and should be turn into fairy dust and thrown down straight back into the darkness.

[Macfanforever]

Bitter.I may sound bitter on anything.See my post 223 in http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=56571 thread as I said about all of Mac.

We are lucky to have all of them alive............................................................................................... ..................................

[elle]

I am not bitter at all. "My girl" is out there doing what she loves most and the critics are raving about her concerts! The audiences are thrilled, and she looks overjoyed and sounds wonderful. I couldn't be happier actually.

Everyone should get to do whatever they want to do. As long as Stevie is happy, I am happy too.

sorry, should have said "some" fans. always wrong to generalize.

you've been nothing but wonderful to everyone, thanks for all that you find and share! :xoxo:

[KenshiMaster16]

Stevie's happy now, sure. Just you watch. When one of them eventually kicks the bucket, her tune is going to go from "Album? Albums don't sell, who wants an album? Let's tour instead" to "Oh, it's such a shame we never got to make another album, the five of us. Would've been such a nice ending to a long rock and roll fantasy tale."

Same reason she complained and complained about how albums aren't for her anymore and then boom, out comes IYD and 24KG. Her stories change so much and so often even a perfect historian couldn't get a proper timeline of events from her.

[secondhandchain]

Hmmm, maybe posters like secondhandchain and homer can answer why they say the things they say about Stevie...

I've been a LONG time fan of hers. But she begged Chris to come back and we all were overjoyed that there would be a new album. She changes the reasons why she won't do it depending on the day. "albums don't sell" "I don't care if they sell". It's annoying and I'm really bummed out that we won't get the five together for one more. I really don't want to hear Rhiannon for the five millionth time. What I love about this band is their creativity in the studio. I'm really bummed out that she is doing this. Sorry.

[KarmaContestant]

I'm not bitter at all about FM. What I am bitter about is all the shade thrown at Stevie by some people in this forum over the absence of a new FM album. As if she holds the reins - nope, that's Mick and Lindsey. They could have released that damn album two years ago. It's not Stevie's fault they're holding out for her. She's made it pretty clear that she has no desire to participate in a new album. It takes too long. It's excruciating (I imagine) dealing with the band politics in the studio, the nitpicking over pronouns, and the subsequent label negotiations. It isn't fun making an album with FM, as she has mentioned more than couple times recently. Too much business and not enough art.

I'd love a new FM album, with or without Stevie. Like many of you, I feel a bit of disappointment that we aren't likely to see one. Unlike many of you, I've accepted it and moved on to find enjoyment in what *is* happening instead of obsessing over what isn't.

[24karatstevie]

I am also not bitter. Just because Stevie is my favourite member doesn't mean I don't love the other 4. I'm actually really proud of Stevie for going out and doing what makes her happy with this solo tour. While I would love a new album with all 5, I understand Stevie's reluctance. However, if the other 4 want to go ahead and release an album that's fine with me; I would love to hear new music. And while I personally wouldn't attend a show without Stevie there, I have no problem with a small 4 piece tour for those who would like to see it. The only thing I'm not fond of is the outright name calling against Stevie (or any of the members for that matter). My only wish is that the proposed 2018 world tour will be a mix of greatest hits and deep cuts. This formula has certainly worked for the 24 Karat Gold Tour. Hopefully, something will come about in the near future that will make all fans happy.

[SisterNightroad]

I consider myself a fan of both, which is strangely uncommon in this divisive fandom, and I am really satisfied right now.
I think that being a fan of both of them gives me much more enjoyment since when the band isn't active Stevie's solo career is, instead of feeling like one takes something away from the other, and alternating between the two makes things more interesting.

[bwboy]

I'm with sisternightroad- I'm a fan of FM, especially the Rumours line up and the Behind the Mask lineup. But I'm a fan of Stevie, a fan of Christine, and to a lesser degree, a fan of Lindsey, too. And when I say fan, I mean of their work. Stevie has the advantage here, as she's been the most prolific of the three. My thought has always been, when/if a member has success as a solo artist, it keeps the name Fleetwood Mac in the public eye, which is a good thing. Virtually every review of Stevie's latest album and tour starts off with "Fleetwood Mac member Stevie Nicks..." and the same thing goes for Lindsey and Christine. Her current tour is such a success, she (and the Pretenders, of course) have added 20 more cities, and to me, that bodes well for FM when they do release an album or go back on the road again.

[Macfan4life]

I am also a huge fan of both and have attended solo shows of the singers and have their albums. A true miracle happened and Christine came back to the band after 16 years and performed a HUGE world tour. Even then people started to attack them for performing too much and not recording a new album. People forgot about the miracle and when a miracle happens sit back and enjoy it. The biggest miracle would be for these 5 members to record an album together. This has not happened since the 1980's. For what ever reason, Stevie is dragging her feet. But even worse IMHO, she is not honest with her fans. Does anyone really believe the reason she does not want to do the album is because it might not be good? That is an insult to the rest of the band and Christine. So there is a reason why there is a bitterness towards Stevie in this forum. She is preventing a miracle from happening. The Stevie (only) fans have reacted in attacking the rest of the band. I see the band as innocent and just wanting to record an album. As real or true fans we should all want that. I do not see the band touring without Stevie. I think that was a statement to get Stevie's attention to come back to the band. The band is older and they travel in lavish ways in private jets, etc. The band playing small theaters could not travel and support their touring lifestyle. In addition, to practice and tour only to come off the tour and rehearse and tour again is a bit strange. Maybe the band would showcase their new songs while Stevie hides backstage. If the Stevie ONLY fans do not like discussing Fleetwood Mac there are other forums devoted only to Stevie's solo career.

[SisterNightroad]

I am also a huge fan of both and have attended solo shows of the singers and have their albums. A true miracle happened and Christine came back to the band after 16 years and performed a HUGE world tour. Even then people started to attack them for performing too much and not recording a new album. People forgot about the miracle and when a miracle happens sit back and enjoy it. The biggest miracle would be for these 5 members to record an album together. This has not happened since the 1980's. For what ever reason, Stevie is dragging her feet. But even worse IMHO, she is not honest with her fans. Does anyone really believe the reason she does not want to do the album is because it might not be good? That is an insult to the rest of the band and Christine. So there is a reason why there is a bitterness towards Stevie in this forum. She is preventing a miracle from happening. The Stevie (only) fans have reacted in attacking the rest of the band. I see the band as innocent and just wanting to record an album. As real or true fans we should all want that. I do not see the band touring without Stevie. I think that was a statement to get Stevie's attention to come back to the band. The band is older and they travel in lavish ways in private jets, etc. The band playing small theaters could not travel and support their touring lifestyle. In addition, to practice and tour only to come off the tour and rehearse and tour again is a bit strange. Maybe the band would showcase their new songs while Stevie hides backstage. If the Stevie ONLY fans do not like discussing Fleetwood Mac there are other forums devoted only to Stevie's solo career.
I really think it's naive to think that Stevie can put a stop to the rest of the band, she is only one fifth of the band and I doubt that she alone has the power to force the other four fifths to do anything they don't want to.
However I'm curious, don't you consider The Dance a group effort? It's one of my favourite periods of this band.
I don't think Stevie is necessarily dishonest, unless it's bout being dishonest with herself. In the end she didn't say that the album wouldn't be good, she said that it wouldn't sell, which is different, and actually the more an album is good, the more frustrating it is if it doesn't sell.
I also think that at this point in their lives we as real and true fans should be happy with whatever the band members want to give to us, they already gave us very much and deserve in their older years to do what they want at the time they want.
I have missed these Stevie fans attacking the rest of the band, where has it happened?

[lbfan]

My reaction and opinion:
Lindsey had been discussing in several interviews his work as a Producer/arranger on her songs (such as Dreams). I think that has offended her fan base, and maybe Stevie herself. Complaints have surfaced about too many "overdubs" or "over production." Somehow this is getting perceived as "taking credit" for the success of her songs. Stevie clearly has the creative idea (lyrics, melody, etc.), and Lindsey has always fashioned her music into a "song" on FM projects. But Lindsey has never received any song writing credit with Stevie (the two notable exceptions being Frozen Love and The Chain). I get the impression that Stevie wants to prove that she can have successful songs without Lindsey (again, my perception and my opinion).

From Lindsey's perspective, as Richard Dashut acknowledged, Lindsey never received Producer status until later in his FM tenure, even though he was calling the shots. The fallout with Ken Caillat may have come from him attempting to claim more credit than he was due on the musical production on Rumours.

So this appears to be a lot of people "explaining" their role in the success of FM music and legacy, as well as (perhaps) some "revisionist" history. It is truly unfortunate. As Harry Truman once said (paraphrasing), "It's amazing what can be accomplished if no one cares about who gets the credit." Admittedly, I am an LB fan (hence my moniker), but I really enjoy Stevie's songs on which Lindsey has worked (Twisted is an example). It is unfortunate that we may never have that again.

[Macfan4life]

I really think it's naive to think that Stevie can put a stop to the rest of the band, she is only one fifth of the band and I doubt that she alone has the power to force the other four fifths to do anything they don't want to.
However I'm curious, don't you consider The Dance a group effort? It's one of my favourite periods of this band.
I don't think Stevie is necessarily dishonest, unless it's bout being dishonest with herself. In the end she didn't say that the album wouldn't be good, she said that it wouldn't sell, which is different, and actually the more an album is good, the more frustrating it is if it doesn't sell.
I also think that at this point in their lives we as real and true fans should be happy with whatever the band members want to give to us, they already gave us very much and deserve in their older years to do what they want at the time they want.
I have missed these Stevie fans attacking the rest of the band, where has it happened?
Of course she is dishonest. Can you imagine Mick Jagger telling everyone he does not want to do another Stones album because it might not be good. Just imagine the reaction from Keith Richards. Keith would have expletive words. I don't understand this need to give Stevie shelter that no other band member in any other band would get.

No, Stevie does not have the power to stop the band. But the other band members do care and value her input. They want a complete package to go on the road with. They value her artistry and want it part of this album.

Of course we are all happy with whatever the band gives us. But us fans have only dreamed of "what if" these 5 would record another album. We are on the edge of that moment. And sorry, we do have a right to feel frustrated.

Christine gave up performing 20 years ago after the Dance. Who would have dreamed that she is back touring and wants to record music with all 5 members again. This is something THEY WANT to do.

[Tango]

I am also not bitter. Just because Stevie is my favourite member doesn't mean I don't love the other 4. I'm actually really proud of Stevie for going out and doing what makes her happy with this solo tour. While I would love a new album with all 5, I understand Stevie's reluctance. However, if the other 4 want to go ahead and release an album that's fine with me; I would love to hear new music. And while I personally wouldn't attend a show without Stevie there, I have no problem with a small 4 piece tour for those who would like to see it. The only thing I'm not fond of is the outright name calling against Stevie (or any of the members for that matter). My only wish is that the proposed 2018 world tour will be a mix of greatest hits and deep cuts. This formula has certainly worked for the 24 Karat Gold Tour. Hopefully, something will come about in the near future that will make all fans happy.


Just curious- why wouldn't you attend a show with 4 other musicians that you like and enjoy? I would see Lindsey solo, and I would see Christine solo. Why wouldn't you see Lindsey and Christine together? Why would you not see people that you admittedly enjoy.

[Macfan4life]

Just curious- why wouldn't you attend a show with 4 other musicians that you like and enjoy? I would see Lindsey solo, and I would see Christine solo. Why wouldn't you see Lindsey and Christine together? Why would you not see people that you admittedly enjoy.
That would be the case with many casual fans. Stevie can get about 9-10k people for her solo concerts. The Mac can get about 14-16k. If the Mac toured without Stevie, sadly there would be a small theater that probably would not be sold out. Even in solo shows neither Christine or Lindsey could sell out a theater at the peak of their career. Its sad but unfortunately its the truth. Stevie is a huge draw and I remember as a kid waiting in line for Fleetwood Mac tickets listening to "fans" say the most horrible things about the rest of the band. "No one comes to see Christine.....Stevie is so beautiful, Chris is so ugly." "I wish Lindsey did not sing so we can hear more Stevie songs." This all coming from people who would camp out to be first in line to get tickets to a Mac show.

[SisterNightroad]

Of course she is dishonest. Can you imagine Mick Jagger telling everyone he does not want to do another Stones album because it might not be good. Just imagine the reaction from Keith Richards. Keith would have expletive words. I don't understand this need to give Stevie shelter that no other band member in any other band would get.

No, Stevie does not have the power to stop the band. But the other band members do care and value her input. They want a complete package to go on the road with. They value her artistry and want it part of this album.

Of course we are all happy with whatever the band gives us. But us fans have only dreamed of "what if" these 5 would record another album. We are on the edge of that moment. And sorry, we do have a right to feel frustrated.

Hello!!!! Christine gave up performing 20 years ago after the Dance. Who would have dreamed that she is back touring and wants to record music with all 5 members again. This is something THEY WANT to do.
But, again, she said that it wouldn't sell, not that it wouldn't be good. And I didn't enjoy the latest efforts of the Stones, but that's off topic.
Honestly I really don't think anyone is giving anyone shelter, in my opinion she just said something random and suddenly everyone is putting too much thought in those words.
And who said that the band is currently waiting for her or that they want to eventually tour, with or without her? We don't even have any input about their current thoughts or plans.
Nobody said we shouldn't feel frustrated, but the "THEY" doesn't exists unless we are talking about all of them.

[FuzzyPlum]

That would be the case with many casual fans. Stevie can get about 9-10k people for her solo concerts. The Mac can get about 14-16k. If the Mac toured without Stevie, sadly there would be a small theater that probably would not be sold out. Even in solo shows neither Christine or Lindsey could sell out a theater at the peak of their career. Its sad but unfortunately its the truth. Stevie is a huge draw and I remember as a kid waiting in line for Fleetwood Mac tickets listening to "fans" say the most horrible things about the rest of the band. "No one comes to see Christine.....Stevie is so beautiful, Chris is so ugly." "I wish Lindsey did not sing so we can hear more Stevie songs." This all coming from people who would camp out to be first in line to get tickets to a Mac show.

I have a feeling we might be pleasantly surprised by possible attendances. Lindsey and Chris couldn't each draw big crowds solo as they were never big names in the way Stevie was. However, they won't be playing solo and Fleetwood Mac as a brand carries a lot of weight. Do we really think the majority of people that come to FM shows are big fans that own most of the albums? (and Stevie Nicks albums?)...of course they aren't. The majority of the people that see gigs are casual fans that own a couple of albums at most and in many cases just have a Greatest Hits disc. A lot of people will therefore still come as the Fleetwood Mac moniker is a big draw. Some might question why the 'witchy woman' isnt present but they'd still be pretty happy to hear GYOW, The Chain, Little Lies, Hold Me etc. Additionally it's the goddamned anniversary year. The media interest stemming from that alone is enough to bring in decent numbers. I can see them getting the same numbers as Stevie's shows have been getting.

[FuzzyPlum]

Admittedly, I am an LB fan (hence my moniker), but I really enjoy Stevie's songs on which Lindsey has worked (Twisted is an example).

Oh, I always read the L as an I. Assumed Ibfan was some sort of Eastern European name :nod:

[FuzzyPlum]

But, again, she said that it wouldn't sell, not that it wouldn't be good. And I didn't enjoy the latest efforts of the Stones, but that's off topic.

I think she's indirectly suggested it. There was the interview she gave (which to the best of my recollection was quite terse/cold towards Fleetwood Mac and LB in particular) where she said they'd never again be able to capture the magic of the old songs (refering to Gypsy I think). I think she suggested there'd be no point trying because they could never be good together again.

[SisterNightroad]

I have a feeling we might be pleasantly surprised by possible attendances. Lindsey and Chris couldn't each draw big crowds solo as they were never big names in the way Stevie was. However, they won't be playing solo and Fleetwood Mac as a brand carries a lot of weight. Do we really think the majority of people that come to FM shows are big fans that own most of the albums? (and Stevie Nicks albums?)...of course they aren't. The majority of the people that see gigs are casual fans that own a couple of albums at most and in many cases just have a Greatest Hits disc. A lot of people will therefore still come as the Fleetwood Mac moniker is a big draw. Some might question why the 'witchy woman' isnt present but they'd still be pretty happy to hear GYOW, The Chain, Little Lies, Hold Me etc. Additionally it's the goddamned anniversary year. The media interest stemming from that alone is enough to bring in decent numbers. I can see them getting the same numbers as Stevie's shows have been getting.
I second this.

[24karatstevie]

Just curious- why wouldn't you attend a show with 4 other musicians that you like and enjoy? I would see Lindsey solo, and I would see Christine solo. Why wouldn't you see Lindsey and Christine together? Why would you not see people that you admittedly enjoy.

I think I may have mentioned this in a different thread before, I'm not sure. But the main draw of Fleetwood Mac for me is Stevie; however, I also really like Chris's music. I have nothing against Lindsey, I just like Stevie and Chris's music more. I guess I should mention that since I am a newer fan, I have not actually seen Fleetwood Mac live yet. I just saw Stevie for the first time on this tour. I definitely want Stevie to be there for my first time seeing the Mac. I hope this makes sense; I wasn't trying to say anything against the other members.

[HomerMcvie]

Hmmm, maybe posters like secondhandchain and homer can answer why they say the things they say about Stevie...
Because I don't like her, and think she's a ridiculous person. She's taken on this power trip now, that "I'll show them who's the boss". For the record, I used to like her, but her songwriting talent hits the skids decades ago, and her nasally, four note singing range leaves me flat, and uninspired.

The icing on the cake is that they're getting old, and someone IS going to die. Then, it's going to be too late for one last album. And guess who's fault that is? Old goat breath.

Any more questions?

[bwboy]

For what ever reason, Stevie is dragging her feet. But even worse IMHO, she is not honest with her fans. Does anyone really believe the reason she does not want to do the album is because it might not be good? That is an insult to the rest of the band and Christine. So there is a reason why there is a bitterness towards Stevie in this forum. She is preventing a miracle from happening. The Stevie (only) fans have reacted in attacking the rest of the band. I see the band as innocent and just wanting to record an album. As real or true fans we should all want that. I do not see the band touring without Stevie. I think that was a statement to get Stevie's attention to come back to the band. The band is older and they travel in lavish ways in private jets, etc. The band playing small theaters could not travel and support their touring lifestyle. In addition, to practice and tour only to come off the tour and rehearse and tour again is a bit strange. Maybe the band would showcase their new songs while Stevie hides backstage. If the Stevie ONLY fans do not like discussing Fleetwood Mac there are other forums devoted only to Stevie's solo career.

Let's say you're right and Stevie is lying about why she doesn't want to record with FM. Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." I think that's the real reason she doesn't want to make a new album with the band, but she doesn't want to be a b!tch about it and say anything mean about him, especially to the fans.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't want to make a new record with the band, the fact is she doesn't want to and has made that clear to them. She's not dragging her feet or leading them on. They need to just finish the album themselves.

[elle]

Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." .

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you do know that's exactly what she is saying to the public. right?

[elle]

They need to just finish the album themselves.

agree with this. as they apparently did! :thumbsup:

[Macfan4life]

Let's say you're right and Stevie is lying about why she doesn't want to record with FM. Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." I think that's the real reason she doesn't want to make a new album with the band, but she doesn't want to be a b!tch about it and say anything mean about him, especially to the fans.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't want to make a new record with the band, the fact is she doesn't want to and has made that clear to them. She's not dragging her feet or leading them on. They need to just finish the album themselves.
All that is probably true. Isn't sad though if you pay her 10 million dollars she will gladly tour with Lindsey for a year and do her hugs and kisses on stage :eek:

[Tango]

I think I may have mentioned this in a different thread before, I'm not sure. But the main draw of Fleetwood Mac for me is Stevie; however, I also really like Chris's music. I have nothing against Lindsey, I just like Stevie and Chris's music more. I guess I should mention that since I am a newer fan, I have not actually seen Fleetwood Mac live yet. I just saw Stevie for the first time on this tour. I definitely want Stevie to be there for my first time seeing the Mac. I hope this makes sense; I wasn't trying to say anything against the other members.

Thank you for your answer. Yes, you make perfect sense. And it's how you feel.

[FuzzyPlum]

Let's say you're right and Stevie is lying about why she doesn't want to record with FM. Maybe she doesn't want to say to the public "I hate working with Lindsey so much that I can't stand the thought of being trapped in a studio with him for even a week." I think that's the real reason she doesn't want to make a new album with the band, but she doesn't want to be a b!tch about it and say anything mean about him, especially to the fans.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter WHY she doesn't want to make a new record with the band, the fact is she doesn't want to and has made that clear to them. She's not dragging her feet or leading them on. They need to just finish the album themselves.


No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.

[HomerMcvie]

No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
Hits the nail, dead on the head. Spot on!

[bwboy]

All that is probably true. Isn't sad though if you pay her 10 million dollars she will gladly tour with Lindsey for a year and do her hugs and kisses on stage :eek:

There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.

[bwboy]

No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.

Fuzzy, you just don't know that. She wrote nearly all of her material for In Your Dreams, as well as 24 Karat Gold. Even if she was as insecure as you paint her out to be about her ability to write songs now, she still has plenty of old demos she could hand over to the band. But if she did that, she would still have to go into the studio with Lindsey, and she clearly doesn't want to do that. It's frustrating, I'm annoyed and disappointed too, but can't fault her for the way she feels.

If you're mad she won't record with the band, that's fine and understandable, but no need to say "she's insecure" and "worried she'll come off looking bad."

[FuzzyPlum]

There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.


Not always- much of it is just a public show. I think for most of the tour they barely speak outside the venue.

It is just as phony of Lindsey, but he isn't the one complaining he can't work with Stevie. He's happy to grit his teeth and get on with it.

[SisterNightroad]

No! The real reason Stevie doesn't want to do an album with Fleetwood Mac is that she's insecure about her songwriting skills and general musicianship. She's aware Lindsey and Chris have produced a lot of music together and may have even heard some of the material. Lindsey and Chris are obviously creatively 'hot', so to speak. Stevie probably feels a bit put out that Lindsey and Chris are so close now- she's worried she'll come off looking bad like with Tango In The Night (we all know what it feels like when your two good friends spend too much time together without you). In Fleetwood Mac Stevie needs Lindsey to make her songs sound good and she's no longer happy to admit the limitations of her ability. Publicly she's saying working with Lindsey is too difficult, albums don't sell, it won't be as good as the old albums, we are better off just touring...etc etc etc.
The reality is, she probably just can't come up with the songs.
I agree with your premise, but I don't think it's jealousy.
I think her insecurity stems from the failure of 24K Gold because she really cared about that album.
Now because of that she's probably disillusioned about making new records while touring with an unexpected setlist has become a pleasant surprise and wants to do it with the Mac too.
Also I have a feeling that she thinks that the album would take a pretty long time to complete and by the time it eventually comes out and they can hit the road they'll all be more than 70 and they may lack the energy to tour an extensive tour with a 3 hours setlist.
You can record albums at any age but you can't always tour.

[SisterNightroad]

Not always- much of it is just a public show. I think for most of the tour they barely speak outside the venue.

It is just as phony of Lindsey, but he isn't the one complaining he can't work with Stevie. He's happy to grit his teeth and get on with it.
For all we know he is complaining about her all the time, even right now, just they don't ask him in interviews.

[FuzzyPlum]

Fuzzy, you just don't know that. She wrote nearly all of her material for In Your Dreams, as well as 24 Karat Gold.

It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc

[dreamsunwind]

I love Stevie but I'm upset with her for not getting involved. I think that she won't do it because recording with Lindsey as a producer isn't fun for her. If he wasn't producing I don't think there'd be as much of an issue.
But the thing is, she's in a band. That's just how it is in a band, there's always conflict. It wouldn't be a band if everything was peachy. George Harrison often was really unhappy recording with The Beatles because Lennon and McCartney dominated and made him feel like a session musician. But he still showed up because it was his job.
I think Stevie holds all the cards in the band when it comes to things like this because she has way more fans than the rest of them and she knows it and they know it. That's why it's pretty ****ty of her to be putting them in this position since she doesn't want to just be a band member and do her job.
And I'm not speaking for all SN fans but the ones that are bitter about FM are just the ones who think Stevie can do no wrong and so they think everyone else is the bad guy.

[Macfan4life]

There's a difference between working on an album and touring, of course. The conflict seems to be when they're in the studio, not when they're performing. I think all 5 get along fine when they're touring. And it's just as phony of Lindsey to do the hugs and kisses on stage as it is Stevie.

No... they don't get along touring either. But with touring they don't have to see each other except on stage. Conflict has always created masterpieces in music and art.
Frank Lloyd Wright fought Mr. Kauffman daily and threatened to quit and Mr. Kauffman always questioned Frank Lloyd Wright about his architectural plans. In the end they created Falling Water....an architectural masterpiece.
Don't run or hide.... embrace it.

[SisterNightroad]

It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc
The lyrics for I don't care were new, before recording the album she had only the instrumental of Mike Campbell. However they aren't the finest lyrics she did in her career.

[bombaysaffires]

It depends on your definition of 'write songs'. In Your Dreams mostly came from her poetry. It takes a lot to turn a poem into a song. For In Your Dreams she had to rely on Dave to create the music and turn the lyrics into songs.

Yes, she wrote 24 Karat Gold...30+ years ago.


I think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc

well it's like on SYW.... she was content to hand over a bunch of old demos but then got a taste of what Lindsey was bringing and that got her competitive side going and she decided she didn't want just old stuff, she had to step up and crank out some songs.... and she managed to bring 4 new ones...not her best, perhaps, (ahem, Silver Girl) and she recycled lyrics on the same album (Illume and Destiny Rules) though I actually like Destiny Rules and Thrown Down is pretty damn good. It just seems to be so much more work for her these days..her musical vocabulary is sooooo rudimentary and she's run out of all the ways to combine her same 4 chords and make them new. Even, and I hate to say it, but her lyrics have gone downhill from her heyday. Not that she can't occasionally still bring it but honestly..... I just don't think she has that much to write about anymore. Like she said for her solo album reissues and 24k (same vintage) those were her "sex and drugs and rock and roll" songs and she adds that she couldn't ever write those kinds of songs again. what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed?? : O Kidding....she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older, whatever, but maybe she feels that doesn't lend itself to upbeat rocking songs. Who knows. I mean she is a writer whose bread and butter is songs about a)tumultuous relationships or b)witches, ghosts, spirits. She can still write about the first stuff just based on past events, or come up with some new stuff for the second topic. But she just doesn't seem that inspired to write a whole lot of songs like when she was 30, but then... she's 68. She likes the stuff that is successful and doesn't like stuff that won't be "successful". To her the tradeoff in suffering (such as it is) in the studio isn't worth the payoff..... she's happy being an oldies act.

[SisterNightroad]

she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older
Nah already done:
https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2016/08/28/636080065938138511280144335_8%20songs.gif

However jokes aside, I like this idea and I wonder why she didn't find inspiration in the experiences of loss that she endured these years. With age comes wisdom and I'm sure she could still come out with something immensely valuable.

what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed??
I actually do that too.

[dreamsunwind]

well it's like on SYW.... she was content to hand over a bunch of old demos but then got a taste of what Lindsey was bringing and that got her competitive side going and she decided she didn't want just old stuff, she had to step up and crank out some songs.... and she managed to bring 4 new ones...not her best, perhaps, (ahem, Silver Girl) and she recycled lyrics on the same album (Illume and Destiny Rules) though I actually like Destiny Rules and Thrown Down is pretty damn good. It just seems to be so much more work for her these days..her musical vocabulary is sooooo rudimentary and she's run out of all the ways to combine her same 4 chords and make them new. Even, and I hate to say it, but her lyrics have gone downhill from her heyday. Not that she can't occasionally still bring it but honestly..... I just don't think she has that much to write about anymore. Like she said for her solo album reissues and 24k (same vintage) those were her "sex and drugs and rock and roll" songs and she adds that she couldn't ever write those kinds of songs again. what's she gonna write about? Having her yogurt treat before bed?? : O Kidding....she could actually write about losing her dad, her mom, getting older, whatever, but maybe she feels that doesn't lend itself to upbeat rocking songs. Who knows. I mean she is a writer whose bread and butter is songs about a)tumultuous relationships or b)witches, ghosts, spirits. She can still write about the first stuff just based on past events, or come up with some new stuff for the second topic. But she just doesn't seem that inspired to write a whole lot of songs like when she was 30, but then... she's 68. She likes the stuff that is successful and doesn't like stuff that won't be "successful". To her the tradeoff in suffering (such as it is) in the studio isn't worth the payoff..... she's happy being an oldies act.

I loooooove Thrown Down. It's my favorite song of hers from this century. I also really liked Goodbye Baby.

I think it's that a lot of her songs were about her intense love affairs and all that stuff which she hasn't had in a long time so she can't write that same way anymore. I remember on one interview for the EP she commented how she can't write a song like Without You ever again because she doesn't know what it's like to be in love like that anymore.
But she still has so many old poems she could dig out so I don't think it's a matter of not having songs. And you made a good point, I feel like she could've written some great stuff after her mother died because it was such a huge loss for her.

[bombaysaffires]

I loooooove Thrown Down. It's my favorite song of hers from this century. I also really liked Goodbye Baby.

I think it's that a lot of her songs were about her intense love affairs and all that stuff which she hasn't had in a long time so she can't write that same way anymore. I remember on one interview for the EP she commented how she can't write a song like Without You ever again because she doesn't know what it's like to be in love like that anymore.
But she still has so many old poems she could dig out so I don't think it's a matter of not having songs. And you made a good point, I feel like she could've written some great stuff after her mother died because it was such a huge loss for her.

and, frankly, the Lindsey-produced version is better than the other (I'm blanking but think it was produced by Sheryl Crow)

[elle]

And I'm not speaking for all SN fans but the ones that are bitter about FM are just the ones who think Stevie can do no wrong and so they think everyone else is the bad guy.

yeah maybe that's it - that's how it certainly comes across with some people. :eek:

[michelej1]

It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc

This reminded me of Tonya Harding putting her skated foot up on the table and crying that the lace was broken.

Michele

[elle]

But, again, she said that it wouldn't sell, not that it wouldn't be good.
nope, she said that it wouldn't be good. that they can never recapture the magic of their heyday anymore. plus that it wouldn't sell so what's the point.

I have a feeling we might be pleasantly surprised by possible attendances. Lindsey and Chris couldn't each draw big crowds solo as they were never big names in the way Stevie was. However, they won't be playing solo and Fleetwood Mac as a brand carries a lot of weight. Do we really think the majority of people that come to FM shows are big fans that own most of the albums? (and Stevie Nicks albums?)...of course they aren't. The majority of the people that see gigs are casual fans that own a couple of albums at most and in many cases just have a Greatest Hits disc.
exactly. Fleetwood Mac name carries a lot more weight than any of their individual names. many people go see Fleetwood Mac because they want to put that notch on their belt, like you wanna see a Beatle live, or the Stones, or the Who, or Lynyrd Skynyrd (now there's a band that's completely different than in their heyday!), or Beach Boys, etc - while they are still around. they might know a few best known hits and that''s it. and if they own FM Greatest Hits - almost 80% of the songs there are Christine's, so they'll get that!

now individually, nobody knows who Lindsey Buckingham is, or Christine McVie, or John McVie. few people might know who Mick Fleetwood is, mostly because his name is so close to the band name. and many know who Stevie Nicks is. so it's very possible that if they tour as Fleetwood Mac in arenas, while the shows will be sold out because of Fleetwood Mac name, there will be enough people who will be disappointed when they realize that Nicks is not there. but Beach Boys tour large venues all the time, while at the same time Brian Wilson tours small theaters solo. it would not be unusual.

that said, i really hope if the FM 4 tour, that they'll choose to tour intimate venues, which would assure they are not obligated to do all the hits but they can do tons of new stuff instead.

bottom line: if they tour under Fleetwood Mac name, they will be selling out whatever they want. if they tour under any other name, nobody will know who that is, but that will give them complete artistic freedom. and it would be fantastic to see that show in intimate venues, even if the prices are higher than arena prices there - since unlike in arenas, there are no bad seats in theaters and clubs.

[KarmaContestant]

But even worse IMHO, she is not honest with her fans. Does anyone really believe the reason she does not want to do the album is because it might not be good?

Baloney. She didn't say that. She said it wasn't fun to record with FM, she said it took too long, and she said (paraphrased) that no one would buy it anyhow. She hasn't said a word about QUALITY.

[KarmaContestant]

Because I don't like her, and think she's a ridiculous person. She's taken on this power trip now, that "I'll show them who's the boss". For the record, I used to like her, but her songwriting talent hits the skids decades ago, and her nasally, four note singing range leaves me flat, and uninspired.

The icing on the cake is that they're getting old, and someone IS going to die. Then, it's going to be too late for one last album. And guess who's fault that is? Old goat breath.

Any more questions?

Since you feel that way - why hold any animosity towards her for not doing a FM album? There's nothing stopping the rest of the band from going on without her. You of all people should be *cheering* the fact that she's not interested in an album.

[elle]

II think she possibly could come up with the goods- its probably just daunting for her. Chris has already brought at least 6 songs to the table and Lindsey has a big bunch. It's like her starting a 100m race with her competitors already 20 metres ahead of her; 'I've sprained my ankle', 'I didn't sleep well last night', 'I have a stomach bug', 'It's a stupid race anyway- its not worth winning'...etc

:lol: that sounds like a perfect metaphor, since it does seem like all different rotating reasons she keeps bringing up are just made up excuses to cover something else. :nod:


recording takes a year? either she's stuck in some weird time warp, or she's just making stuff up. i don't want Lindsey as a producer? he proposed tons of others (including Dave Stewart!), FM even started recording with Froom, she still refused. the list goes on.

[KarmaContestant]

nope, she said that it wouldn't be good.


Prove it. Find the quote and share it here.

[elle]

Prove it. Find the quote and share it here.
:lol: wow that tone is not very nice.

that most recent interview she gave is somewhere in SN forum. or just google it, and it will come up.

[KarmaContestant]

recording takes a year? either she's stuck in some weird time warp, or she's just making stuff up.

SYW was started in 2002, and released in 2003. That's a year.

Tango took 16 months - November 1985 to March 1987.

Tusk is well documented at 18 months.

Rumours took a large chunk of 1976, much of it due to mixing. And mixing. And mixing.

I think she's spot-on when she says FM spends a year to record an album.

As a fan, I'd say the time is worth it - the results are typically stellar. As a band member, I'd say we need a young producer to take the reins and keep us focused and working, and not over-manipulating the material.

[KarmaContestant]

:lol: wow that tone is not very nice.

Wasn't meant to be un-nice, but yeah, it is abrupt.

[dreamsunwind]

SYW was started in 2002, and released in 2003. That's a year.

Tango took 16 months - November 1985 to March 1987.

Tusk is well documented at 18 months.

Rumours took a large chunk of 1976, much of it due to mixing. And mixing. And mixing.

I think she's spot-on when she says FM spends a year to record an album.

As a fan, I'd say the time is worth it - the results are typically stellar. As a band member, I'd say we need a young producer to take the reins and keep us focused and working, and not over-manipulating the material.

Even if it does end up taking a year, Stevie does not actually have to be there locked up in that studio every single day for the entire year. But the way she talks about it, you'd think she would.

I think one time an interviewer mentioned Stevie's complaints about Tusk to Lindsey and he said something about how that surprised him because she only came to the studio around 3 days a week for her songs. I can't remember the exact quote or where it was from, but it was something like that.

And especially now with technology, she really doesn't need to physically be there all that much.

[HomerMcvie]

Since you feel that way - why hold any animosity towards her for not doing a FM album? There's nothing stopping the rest of the band from going on without her. You of all people should be *cheering* the fact that she's not interested in an album.
Nothing would make me happier than for her to go her own way, by either her own choice, or them showing her the door.
But she is keeping them from moving forward, and that's just plain selfish of her.

[elle]

SYW was started in 2002, and released in 2003. That's a year.

Tango took 16 months - November 1985 to March 1987.

Tusk is well documented at 18 months.

Rumours took a large chunk of 1976, much of it due to mixing. And mixing. And mixing.


right, time warp. way in the past. even SYW was recorded on reels.

[Macfanforever]

Nothing would make me happier than for her to go her own way, by either her own choice, or them showing her the door.
But she is keeping them from moving forward, and that's just plain selfish of her.

Mick could roll her out in a wheelbarrow .LOL.

Sorry I stole that from your sig.

[HomerMcvie]

Mick could roll her out in a wheelbarrow .LOL.

Sorry I stole that from your sig.

I'm sure that he doesn't want credit, but I stole that from "David", years ago.

[Macfanforever]

I'm sure that he doesn't want credit, but I stole that from "David", years ago.

Hshshshshsha.OK.

[24karatstevie]

Personally, I just want all members of the band to be happy. They need to either come to an agreement or set their differences aside to make a compromise that works for everyone. Hopefully something happens that makes all fans happy too. At the end of the day we can take solace in the fact that all 5 current members of FM are still with us and have given many years of great music. We as just fans can not necessarily control or influence what FM do and arguing is really getting us nowhere other than dividing the fanbase based on things that are out our hands. At least we can all agree that we joined this website because of our love of Fleetwood Mac!

[elle]

I remember as a kid waiting in line for Fleetwood Mac tickets listening to "fans" say the most horrible things about the rest of the band. "No one comes to see Christine.....Stevie is so beautiful, Chris is so ugly." "I wish Lindsey did not sing so we can hear more Stevie songs." This all coming from people who would camp out to be first in line to get tickets to a Mac show.
sounds like FM fans were always divided. and that sentence about judging Stevie's vs Christine's looks? wow.
Just because Stevie is my favourite member doesn't mean I don't love the other 4. I'm actually really proud of Stevie for going out and doing what makes her happy with this solo tour. While I would love a new album with all 5, I understand Stevie's reluctance. However, if the other 4 want to go ahead and release an album that's fine with me; I would love to hear new music. And while I personally wouldn't attend a show without Stevie there, I have no problem with a small 4 piece tour for those who would like to see it.
i can understand this, i think. i was trying to dissect which members of the band i would go see solo or in different combinations, and who i would not. unlike many people here who are primarily FM fans, i am primarily LB fan. FM without Lindsey is not interesting to me (well, Peter Green's original version would be, but that version will never tour again). i would not go see Fleetwood Mac if Lindsey was not there. so i can understand when SN fans say they will not go see FM without Stevie.

i would go see Mick solo / with his blues band. i would love to see him with Steven Tyler at the roof of his restaurant in Maui! i would be really curious to see Christine solo. i have no interest in seeing Stevie solo, and even though i'd love to see the Pretenders, i skipped their show with Stevie in my area and will wait for Chrissie or the Pretenders to come around on their own, hopefully in smaller venues.

[sue]

I don't think that SN fans are bitter about FM...

It's the other way around...FM fans are bitter about SN.

Some more bitter than others and the main reason is lack of new music.

I also (as others do) think SN is not capable of writing new material.

[SisterNightroad]

nope, she said that it wouldn't be good. that they can never recapture the magic of their heyday anymore. plus that it wouldn't sell so what's the point.
Stevie thinks touring is the better plan, simply because of Fleetwood Mac's dynamics.

"Do we want to go and close ourselves up in a studio for a year, [and] make a record that’s really good but that probably won’t sell, because records don’t really sell that much?" she asks. "And then we'll have been stuffed together for a year in one room, and...when you come out of that room, we may not want to go on a tour!"

http://www.wjbdradio.com/music-news/2016/12/05/stevie-nicks-wants-a-new-fleetwood-mac-tour-not-a-new-fleetwood-mac-album

[elle]

I don't think that SN fans are bitter about FM...

It's the other way around...FM fans are bitter about SN.

Some more bitter than others and the main reason is lack of new music.

I also (as others do) think SN is not capable of writing new material.

see what you are saying would all reasonably make sense. but every time someone would mention a possibility of FM album being released without SN, we would see bunch of hate being thrown that person's way - and bunch of badmouthing of the other members of FM, basically claiming that without SN they are nothing. that sure sounds like bitterness (or worse) to me.

i think someone here said it's because many SN fans behave like they have to stand behind anything she says and does, and are defending her honor somehow. i've seen many posts or groups on social media where saying - hey i didn't like the boots SN wore today - would get you banned. people on those sites praise how "positive" those sites are, vs a place like here where all opinions and civil arguments are welcome. probably even if you go to SN forum here, you will read a lot of dumping on the Rumours forum and how there are just bunch of SN "haters" here.

[SisterNightroad]

Probably even if you go to SN forum here, you will read a lot of dumping on the Rumours forum and how there are just bunch of SN "haters" here.
Actually 90% of the posts there are me and Danielle's reporting reviews and photos of Stevie's current tour.
People both here and there have a wrong perception of what's in the other forum, I wasn't aware that so many people never (or almost) venture in the other sub-forums to this point.

[elle]

Actually 90% of the posts there are me and Danielle's reporting reviews and photos of Stevie's current tour.
People both here and there have a wrong perception of what's in the other forum, I wasn't aware that so many people never (or almost) venture in the other sub-forums to this point.

but it makes sense. if i am not SN fan, why would i go into forum that discusses her solo career? or the other way around, people who obviously don't like LB or CM and are belittling them at every opportunity, without ever hearing any of their solo music, why would they go to their solo forums?

if someone is actually just SN fan, unless they are also a FM fan, they probably don't have much interest in what the whole band is doing, unless Stevie is doing something with the band.


just for the record, there were a few times i went to SN forum and posted something. if i get an info that i think would help fans there (like presale passwords), i have no reason not to share with fans who'd like to have that. but there were also times (usually the same day!) when i expressed my opinion about something or other there, and was rudely attacked and told to stay out of SN forum. :lol:

[SisterNightroad]

but it makes sense. if i am not SN fan, why would i go into forum that discusses her solo career? or the other way around, people who obviously don't like LB or CM and are belittling them at every opportunity, without ever hearing any of their solo music, why would they go to their solo forums?

if someone is actually just SN fan, unless they are also a FM fan, they probably don't have much interest in what the whole band is doing, unless Stevie is doing something with the band.


just for the record, there were a few times i went to SN forum and posted something. if i get an info that i think would help fans there (like presale passwords), i have no reason not to share with fans who'd like to have that. but there were also times (usually the same day!) when i expressed my opinion about something or other there, and was rudely attacked and told to stay out of SN forum. :lol:
I wasn't talking about you in particular, just noticing a particular general tendency as more people happened to say something similar.
However if I am a fan of the band in its entirety I'd check once in a while all the forums (even if I wouldn't comment) of its members, especially as you say during the periods of activity together. I just couldn't really say that I love a band If I don't care about a part of its input.
I don't doubt someone said that to you, in truth since I write at least every once in a while in every sub-forum it happened to me at least once in each one of them. But I don't think we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

[michelej1]

What I see which I find worthy of ridicule and mockery is those who have an opinion on something that they've never heard or experienced. So many people don't know anything about someone's solo career or about the Say You Will album or the EP, yet they never hesitate to tell you how awful it is. Or they say they listen to something for 15 seconds and concluded it was bad. If attention deficit is so egregious that you can't listen to something, then have the courtesy not to talk about it. Just recuse yourself from that particular conversation. And the fact that you hated something someone has done in the past is no excuse to conclude that *everything* they do is trash. People change, talent changes.

Just like I don't want casual fans to judge all of Fleetwood Mac by One album, be in a good or a bad one, I don't express opinions about individual artists based on what I haven't seen or heard, as opposed to what I have.

Once you tell me that something is awful but you've never heard it, then I lose complete interest in anything you have to say. Michele

[elle]

However if I am a fan of the band in its entirety I'd check once in a while all the forums (even if I wouldn't comment) of its members, especially as you say during the periods of activity together. I just couldn't really say that I love a band If I don't care about a part of its input.


right, and that's why it's so surprising that all these people who are claiming to be Fleetwood Mac fans have been coming out saying how "if Stevie's not there, i don't care about the band".

if 4/5th of the band are doing something, i don't see how you can claim you can't care less about their output if you are a fan of the band. in that case, i think you are a fan of Stevie and whatever she does - whether it's solo, with the band, as a part of some duet etc. you don't care about anything Fleetwood Mac other than Stevie.

and it goes the other way, and with other band members. i learned to love Fleetwood Mac, but i'm definitely not a fan of the band, i'm a LB fan. I'm a fan of what he does, solo or with the band or with others, and i like his solo output better than his band output actually. of course there' so much more of his solo output than his output with the band - because, let's face it, this band has been on ice and hardly prolific for long periods of their existence.

[KenshiMaster16]

Can we take a second to appreciate the irony of Stevies likely last song contribution to the band being a song titled 'Without You' of all things?

[Roxy]

What I wanna know is why anybody thinks the band members even care.

[Tango]

Most people are not mad at Stevie or Fleetwood Mac because they don't know this drama is going on here on this fan board! ;) Check with your friends. They know nothing about it yet.

[bombaysaffires]

What I wanna know is why anybody thinks the band members even care.

care about what? what's said here? I'm sure for the most part they don't. I don't think most people post here trying to speak directly to the band members....(though it's nice if some of it filters back). It's fans talking to each other.

[bombaysaffires]

I wasn't talking about you in particular, just noticing a particular general tendency as more people happened to say something similar.
However if I am a fan of the band in its entirety I'd check once in a while all the forums (even if I wouldn't comment) of its members, especially as you say during the periods of activity together. I just couldn't really say that I love a band If I don't care about a part of its input.
I don't doubt someone said that to you, in truth since I write at least every once in a while in every sub-forum it happened to me at least once in each one of them. But I don't think we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

exactly!! I cruise through all the forums. I've seen all 3 songwriters on their solo tours in addition to the band tours. I own all their solo albums (including Mick and John). Granted I listen to some way more than others, but I'm always going to be interested in what all of them are up to.

[JohnL]

Hmmm, maybe posters like secondhandchain and homer can answer why they say the things they say about Stevie...

I think this whole thread should be changed around to say Why are some FM fans so bitter about Stevie? We defend her to the nth degree but we should not even be called upon to do that.

[SisterNightroad]

Sometimes I want to do a survey titled "Why does the Rumours forum always have new threads with complaining titles?"

[Macfanforever]

Sometimes I want to do a survey titled "Why does the Rumours forum always have new threads with complaining titles?"

I agree.I'm not bitter with any of the Mac members or anybody on here. .Again and sorry to say this.I'm just tired of all the on and on complaining/crying/whining/fighting /fussing on these topics in what should they do together and not do together as a band and other stuff about them .To note .Also these threads are bleeding into the other forums on the similar topics . Its time to move on and get over it.Just enjoy what we have with Fleetwood Mac and its members while they are still with us even if we agree or not in what they do together or not together and their solo careers .

[elle]

Sometimes I want to do a survey titled "Why does the Rumours forum always have new threads with complaining titles?"

Because we have been waiting for new FM studio album since 2009. If that's not clear by now, maybe we haven't been complaining enough? ;)

[elle]

I agree.I'm not bitter with any of the Mac members or anybody on here. .Again and sorry to say this.I'm just tired of all the on and on complaining/crying/whining/fighting /fussing on these topics in what should they do together and not do together as a band and other stuff about them .To note .Also these threads are bleeding into the other forums on the similar topics . Its time to move on and get over it.Just enjoy what we have with Fleetwood Mac and its members while they are still with us even if we agree or not in what they do together or not together and their solo careers .

But Skip, not that I'm not happy that all macsters seem healthy, doing well and all, but we are not their family or friends, we are fans. If they don't produce, I as a fan of their music am getting nothing from them.

There are too many fans who seem to treat these poeple they never met as personal friends. They don't need us to "defend" them. They might need us to "clamor" for new music though, and that's exactly what many of us are doing - and we don't need any prompting for that, but we also don't need to be constantly told by a small contingent of sn fans that we should stop and just be happy these millionaires are alive and well.

Also why are people who claim to not be imterested in these threads opening and reading them, seemingly just so they can complain about us complaining? If these threads annoy you, just don't read them!

[Macfanforever]

But Skip, not that I'm not happy that all macsters seem healthy, doing well and all, but we are not their family or friends, we are fans. If they don't produce, I as a fan of their music am getting nothing from them.

There are too many fans who seem to treat these poeple they never met as personal friends. They don't need us to "defend" them. They might need us to "clamor" for new music though, and that's exactly what many of us are doing - and we don't need any prompting for that, but we also don't need to be constantly told by a small contingent of sn fans that we should stop and just be happy these millionaires are alive and well.

Also why are people who claim to not be imterested in these threads opening and reading them, seemingly just so they can complain about us complaining? If these threads annoy you, just don't read them!

Oops I figure to ruffle your feathers on this but agree with you and others about their low or no output from them over the years and now with thick headed Stevie stalling the project for the last few years .You are right .Maybe I should not read these threads if it gets to repetitive on the topic.

[olive]

1st this is extremely Entertaining .

2nd all this hate, and negativity is based I assume on an article from one source .... and nothing really direct from anyone in Fleetwood Mac
why hasn't anyone called Liz Rosenberg ..... or dave

[SisterNightroad]

God, now you can't even make jokes anymore...

[olive]

God, now you can't even make jokes anymore...
we couldn't really make them before

[FuzzyPlum]

God, now you can't even make jokes anymore...

Did you hear William Shatner once secretly married Stevie Nicks?
She changed her name to Stevie Shatner-Nicks.

[Macfanforever]

1st this is extremely Entertaining .

2nd all this hate, and negativity is based I assume on an article from one source .... and nothing really direct from anyone in Fleetwood Mac
why hasn't anyone called Liz Rosenberg ..... or dave

Wow.Thanks Olive .You made the best point about this.

[Macfanforever]

Did you hear William Shatner once secretly married Stevie Nicks?
She changed her name to Stevie Shatner-Nicks.

Hahaha.That interesting.With all the fake news already.Now they can read the Ledge and get their scoop and right about it.Or the one when she pirated a ship around Boston.LOL...

[elle]

God, now you can't even make jokes anymore...

trying adding some emoticon, darlin'! otherwise hard to know when you are joking and when you are preaching.

[elle]

1st this is extremely Entertaining .

2nd all this hate, and negativity is based I assume on an article from one source .... and nothing really direct from anyone in Fleetwood Mac
why hasn't anyone called Liz Rosenberg ..... or dave

hate and negativity has been here for years, just read the old threads :lol:

that said, i'm not really sure what article or piece of info are you referring to specifically? all the info we have been discussing recently has been swirling around for a while now.

[SisterNightroad]

trying adding some emoticon, darlin'! otherwise hard to know when you are joking and when you are preaching.
Nope, it's not my fault if others have no sense of humor. And emoticons are silly.

[SisterNightroad]

Did you hear William Shatner once secretly married Stevie Nicks?
She changed her name to Stevie Shatner-Nicks.

Or the one when she pirated a ship around Boston.LOL...
What if Stevie and William Shatner stole the ship together to get married on board and redirected the ship for the honeymoon?

[jbrownsjr]

Nope, it's not my fault if others have no sense of humor. And emoticons are silly.

gasp! They are not! just look at them.. :nod::sorry::lol::eek::thumbsup::confused::rolleyes::]:]:]

[SisterNightroad]

gasp! They are not! just look at them.. :nod::sorry::lol::eek::thumbsup::confused::rolleyes::]:]
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/077/Raisins_Face.jpg

[jbrownsjr]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Christine Perfect photo!!

[SisterNightroad]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Christine Perfect photo!!
So blasphemous!

[jbrownsjr]

So blasphemous!

If we can bash the goat.. then we can bash the ever so beautiful, talented wonderful, lovely, one and only Queen!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[HomerMcvie]

If we can bash the goat.. then we can bash the ever so beautiful, talented wonderful, lovely, one and only Queen!



I beg your pardon....NO, you may NOT.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

On the latter, not the former. Everyone loves a good goat bashing!

[SisterNightroad]

I beg your pardon....NO, you may NOT.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

On the latter, not the former. Everyone loves a good goat bashing!
You don't get to tell us what to do with our bashing!
Stevie is a goat
Christine is a trans
Mick is a dandy queer
John doesn't wash for weeks at a time
Lindsey is a mid-life crisis

[FuzzyPlum]

You don't get to tell us what to do with our bashing!
Stevie is a goat
Christine is a trans
Mick is a dandy queer
John doesn't wash for weeks at a time
Lindsey is a mid-life crisis


I think Lindsey may have passed his mid-life crisis in the 80's.
Maybe a later life crisis though.

[elle]

You don't get to tell us what to do with our bashing!
Stevie is a goat
Christine is a trans
Mick is a dandy queer
John doesn't wash for weeks at a time
Lindsey is a mid-life crisis
:laugh: equal opportunity offender, much better!
(although you went really easy on Lindsey)

I think Lindsey may have passed his mid-life crisis in the 80's.
Maybe a later life crisis though.
nah he passed that one too, some time right before SWS came out. just listen to songs about passage of time, getting older and even dying there. and then he got over all that during SWS & OMS tours, and now he "doesn't practice age" anymore. :cool:

[jbrownsjr]

You don't get to tell us what to do with our bashing!
Stevie is a goat
Christine is a trans
Mick is a dandy queer
John doesn't wash for weeks at a time
Lindsey is a mid-life crisis

HAHA.. I love you sister. Mick is a tranny Christine is Trans post! John is pigpen from Charlie Brown, and Stevie is goat and LB is a tranny (pre).

[SisterNightroad]

I think Lindsey may have passed his mid-life crisis in the 80's.
Maybe a later life crisis though.

:laugh: equal opportunity offender, much better!
(although you went really easy on Lindsey

HAHA.. I love you sister. Mick is a tranny Christine is Trans post! John is pigpen from Charlie Brown, and Stevie is goat and LB is a tranny (pre).
No all of you didn't truly get it, that's the worst one.
Lindsey doesn't simply have a mid-life crisis, he IS a mid-life crisis. He is the embodiment of the crisis itself, we don't know when he got it (maybe he's born with it?) but he never completely got over it.
He already had it in high school when he practiced with very successful outcomes the very virile sport of competitive swimming and posed proudly for pictures in swimsuit with his package in sight.
He kept on having it when he started with music and his masculine fro was accompanied with pornstar mustaches.
And when later in the 70s of the success he donned very low-waist jeans with open blouses that showed his manly rug.
And when between the 70s and the 80s he cut his hair and started being Maybelline's new testimonial.
And when in the 80s his curls started resembling pubic hair and he posed naked (!!!) for a magazine.
And now...he wears leather jackets and gels his hair to make it curlier. It's not as bad as it once was but I suspect he'll soon buy a motorcycle.

[Macfanforever]

What if Stevie and William Shatner stole the ship together to get married on board and redirected the ship for the honeymoon?

That would be great.It will be the Love Boat /Star Trek reunion special after the ABC Stevie Christmas special .Just have to look for Capt Stubing.LOL.....

[FuzzyPlum]

No all of you didn't truly get it, that's the worst one.
Lindsey doesn't simply have a mid-life crisis, he IS a mid-life crisis. He is the embodiment of the crisis itself, we don't know when he got it (maybe he's born with it?) but he never completely got over it.
He already had it in high school when he practiced with very successful outcomes the very virile sport of competitive swimming and posed proudly for pictures in swimsuit with his package in sight.
He kept on having it when he started with music and his masculine fro was accompanied with pornstar mustaches.
And when later in the 70s of the success he donned very low-waist jeans with open blouses that showed his manly rug.
And when between the 70s and the 80s he cut his hair and started being Maybelline's new testimonial.
And when in the 80s his curls started resembling pubic hair and he posed naked (!!!) for a magazine.
And now...he wears leather jackets and gels his hair to make it curlier. It's not as bad as it once was but I suspect he'll soon buy a motorcycle.


Erm, I don't quite buy the premise;
posing for photographs in speedos as a teenager, having a moustache along with 95% of men in the 70's, having a pubic-hair hair style...
Are they really the embodiment of mid life crisis?
If so, sh!t, I've been in denial my whole life! I need to buy a Yamaha.

....I'll collect my leather jacket on the way out.

[jbrownsjr]

No all of you didn't truly get it, that's the worst one.
Lindsey doesn't simply have a mid-life crisis, he IS a mid-life crisis. He is the embodiment of the crisis itself, we don't know when he got it (maybe he's born with it?) but he never completely got over it.
He already had it in high school when he practiced with very successful outcomes the very virile sport of competitive swimming and posed proudly for pictures in swimsuit with his package in sight.
He kept on having it when he started with music and his masculine fro was accompanied with pornstar mustaches.
And when later in the 70s of the success he donned very low-waist jeans with open blouses that showed his manly rug.
And when between the 70s and the 80s he cut his hair and started being Maybelline's new testimonial.
And when in the 80s his curls started resembling pubic hair and he posed naked (!!!) for a magazine.
And now...he wears leather jackets and gels his hair to make it curlier. It's not as bad as it once was but I suspect he'll soon buy a motorcycle.

ah ah ah .. don't forget skinny jeans..

[elle]

Lindsey doesn't simply have a mid-life crisis, he IS a mid-life crisis. He is the embodiment of the crisis itself, we don't know when he got it (maybe he's born with it?) but he never completely got over it.
He already had it in high school when he practiced with very successful outcomes the very virile sport of competitive swimming and posed proudly for pictures in swimsuit with his package in sight.
He kept on having it when he started with music and his masculine fro was accompanied with pornstar mustaches.
And when later in the 70s of the success he donned very low-waist jeans with open blouses that showed his manly rug.
And when between the 70s and the 80s he cut his hair and started being Maybelline's new testimonial.
And when in the 80s his curls started resembling pubic hair and he posed naked (!!!) for a magazine.
And now...he wears leather jackets and gels his hair to make it curlier. It's not as bad as it once was but I suspect he'll soon buy a motorcycle.
you know, while the first half of what you describe i think was probably normal for the time and environment, at some point he stayed stuck in the 70s with those widely open shirts. i always thought that was so weird when i first got into LB fandom - those completely unbuttoned shirts in the 90s and 2000s when everybody else left that particular fashion fad back in the 70s.

the other side of the coin is, and i may be completely wrong, but i do think Lindsey is on some level very insecure - which is weird for a person as successful as he is, but seems to be there. or maybe it's not that weird, maybe that's what many entertainers are in fact, driving them towards that need for outside validation to overcome their insecurities.

Erm, I don't quite buy the premise;
posing for photographs in speedos as a teenager, having a moustache along with 95% of men in the 70's, having a pubic-hair hair style...
Are they really the embodiment of mid life crisis?
If so, sh!t, I've been in denial my whole life! I need to buy a Yamaha.

....I'll collect my leather jacket on the way out.
hahaha, see you learn something every day!

[HomerMcvie]

You don't get to tell us what to do with our bashing!
Stevie is a goat
Christine is a trans
Mick is a dandy queer
John doesn't wash for weeks at a time
Lindsey is a mid-life crisis

I actually agree with all of those assessments!

[dreamsunwind]

the other side of the coin is, and i may be completely wrong, but i do think Lindsey is on some level very insecure - which is weird for a person as successful as he is, but seems to be there. or maybe it's not that weird, maybe that's what many entertainers are in fact, driving them towards that need for outside validation to overcome their insecurities.

I think so too. I think he's actually very insecure and unsure of himself. In my opinion, that's where a lot of his 'ego' comes from-- a need of validation. Like if you're not actually sure that you're good so you tell yourself that you are to make yourself feel better, along those lines.

He's a total libra.

[HomerMcvie]

He's a total libra.

Oh god, your Stevie slip is showing....:lol:

[dreamsunwind]

Oh god, your Stevie slip is showing....:lol:

:lol::lol:

I always think of how funny it is to me when (and I have seen this a lot) some Stevie fans always make snarky comments about Lindsey's ego as if Stevie doesn't have an equally massive one herself. They just manifest themselves in different ways I think. With Lindsey it's more of his music and his overthought speeches and all that. And I think him having a family might've helped tame that, if only a little bit. With Stevie it's just her entire 'Stevie Nicks' thing. Show the IYD doc to ANYONE and they will walk away saying 'Stevie sure loves Stevie'.

[HomerMcvie]

:lol::lol:

I always think of how funny it is to me when (and I have seen this a lot) some Stevie fans always make snarky comments about Lindsey's ego as if Stevie doesn't have an equally massive one herself. They just manifest themselves in different ways I think. With Lindsey it's more of his music and his overthought speeches and all that. And I think him having a family might've helped tame that, if only a little bit. With Stevie it's just her entire 'Stevie Nicks' thing. Show the IYD doc to ANYONE and they will walk away saying 'Stevie sure loves Stevie'.

Agreed on both counts!

And I think Mick is the same.

However, I don't think Chris or John are like that, at all!
I think Chris and John are both, "yeah, I'm talented, but know what? I got richer than hell off this band. Life is good, and I'm enjoying the rewards". I really don't think either one of them has anything near the egos of the other three.

[elle]

I think so too. I think he's actually very insecure and unsure of himself. In my opinion, that's where a lot of his 'ego' comes from-- a need of validation. Like if you're not actually sure that you're good so you tell yourself that you are to make yourself feel better, along those lines.
he's actually total opposite - he keeps saying that he doesn't know how stuff will turn out so he doesn't want to do it etc etc. i do think he's pretty secure in his talent. just not secure in all ways he can easily manifest it. like his perfectionism, the need to get the song just perfectly the way he wants it before performing it live. some of the times we got him to do stuff by request at his solo shows, and he would be stressing about how bad and unrehearsed it was after he played it - while everybody in the audience was stunned how great and off the cuff it was, feeling privileged we witnessed something extraordinary. at the 92Y Q&A the RS interviewer couldn't help himself remarking how much Lindsey hated having to tune his guitar in front of the live audience - and how special it was for us to experience it!

:lol::lol:

I always think of how funny it is to me when (and I have seen this a lot) some Stevie fans always make snarky comments about Lindsey's ego as if Stevie doesn't have an equally massive one herself. They just manifest themselves in different ways I think. With Lindsey it's more of his music and his overthought speeches and all that. And I think him having a family might've helped tame that, if only a little bit. With Stevie it's just her entire 'Stevie Nicks' thing. Show the IYD doc to ANYONE and they will walk away saying 'Stevie sure loves Stevie'.
see that's insecurity, thinking they'd not be interesting enough if he just ad-lib-ed them. and introversion, i guess.

[dreamsunwind]

he's actually total opposite - he keeps saying that he doesn't know how stuff will turn out so he doesn't want to do it etc etc. i do think he's pretty secure in his talent. just not secure in all ways he can easily manifest it. like his perfectionism, the need to get the song just perfectly the way he wants it before performing it live. some of the times we got him to do stuff by request at his solo shows, and he would be stressing about how bad and unrehearsed it was after he played it - while everybody in the audience was stunned how great and off the cuff it was, feeling privileged we witnessed something extraordinary. at the 92Y Q&A the RS interviewer couldn't help himself remarking how much Lindsey hated having to tune his guitar in front of the live audience - and how special it was for us to experience it!


see that's insecurity, thinking they'd not be interesting enough if he just ad-lib-ed them. and introversion, i guess.


Good point. Interesting what you mentioned about his solo shows. I think insecurity is the root for most of it, as it probably is for a lot of other people as well. That reminds me of the 'Lindsey Buckingham: Lonely Guy' article where he keeps telling the reporter things like 'do you want to play croquet? I really don't do anything, I knew it would be boring' etc.

[KarmaContestant]

You know, the thing is - it doesn't matter to any of you why Stevie fans are or aren't bitter, so why bother asking? You don't want to know any legitimate reasons someone might be (or mostly likely not be) bitter about FM, just like us Stevie fans don't really care how bitter you are about Stevie and her lasting solo success and duration in the public eye. Elle is only asking as a basis to continue this forum's ridiculous discussion about how she's supposedly ruining Fleetwood Mac's chances of a swansong album, when this conversation should have been over 18 months ago. It's just another lame excuse to mock her and her fans.

The truth is - it's *you* who are bitter. Bitter because Stevie is more successful, popular, on tour, recording music, and loving her life. Bitter because you know there won't be a Fleetwood Mac album without her, because God, what label would even want to sign them for even a one-off album without her? Might as well just record the loss on the books and move on. By all means - write Lindsey and Mick and beg them to carry on without her. Beg Warner or Reprise or Sony or, hell, beg Jimmy Iovine to sign them to Interscope without her. It's you who are bitter because she doesn't need them - and how ironic that she wasn't even wanted by them, and yet somehow through a karmic twist of fate, it's she who carries on? It's she who by and large brought the masses to the shows. It's her recording albums, even if sparsely, even if you think they aren't any good - they're still for sale. It's she who had their only number one song. It's Rhiannon that propelled Fleetwood Mac from a backwater blues-ish nobody band to the massive stars they became. Bitter because you know it is Stevie who has kept interest in Fleetwood Mac going all these years.

(Disclaimer: I cannot deny that Lindsey, Chris and Stevie made magic together. I *am* a fan of the Nicksian Fleetwood Mac's music, all of them, whether they record an album or not!)

I mean seriously - it's the same pathetic four or five individuals here who have kept these Stevie-bashing topics going for over a year. Don't you have anything better to do with your lives, your time, your energy, than talk scheiße about a nearly 70 year old woman who simply doesn't care what you think about her? Sad, really.

Stevie is the key to Fleetwood Mac and it just eats you up inside, doesn't it?

Well, have fun with that. :lol: I'll be over at any of the numerous Stevie Facebook groups, celebrating her tour, her music, her successes, and her vibrant career with the rest of her "bitter" fans.


And Michelle, we all know you're the owner here. These forums have lost so many regular members because of the overwhelming negativity that is The Ledge, but if these are the kinds of discussions you wish to foster, if this is the kind of "fan" board you wish to run, more power to you I guess. I hope you never look at your investment here as a waste.

[KenshiMaster16]

You know, the thing is - it doesn't matter to any of you why Stevie fans are or aren't bitter, so why bother asking? You don't want to know any legitimate reasons someone might be (or mostly likely not be) bitter about FM, just like us Stevie fans don't really care how bitter you are about Stevie and her lasting solo success and duration in the public eye. Elle is only asking as a basis to continue this forum's ridiculous discussion about how she's supposedly ruining Fleetwood Mac's chances of a swansong album, when this conversation should have been over 18 months ago. It's just another lame excuse to mock her and her fans.

The truth is - it's *you* who are bitter. Bitter because Stevie is more successful, popular, on tour, recording music, and loving her life.

Not a dig but I firmly believe that anyone, yes anyone, who thinks Stevie is more popular than the band as a whole is firmly delusional and speaking solely from a fandom perspective. She will never, and has never, done the same numbers the Mac has and has never garnered as much attention either. No single member is bigger than the band, no matter who they are, and will never be.

Is she maybe the face of the band? One could argue that but more popular on the whole? Far from it.

[dreamsunwind]

You know, the thing is - it doesn't matter to any of you why Stevie fans are or aren't bitter, so why bother asking? You don't want to know any legitimate reasons someone might be (or mostly likely not be) bitter about FM, just like us Stevie fans don't really care how bitter you are about Stevie and her lasting solo success and duration in the public eye. Elle is only asking as a basis to continue this forum's ridiculous discussion about how she's supposedly ruining Fleetwood Mac's chances of a swansong album, when this conversation should have been over 18 months ago. It's just another lame excuse to mock her and her fans.

The truth is - it's *you* who are bitter. Bitter because Stevie is more successful, popular, on tour, recording music, and loving her life. Bitter because you know there won't be a Fleetwood Mac album without her, because God, what label would even want to sign them for even a one-off album without her? Might as well just record the loss on the books and move on. By all means - write Lindsey and Mick and beg them to carry on without her. Beg Warner or Reprise or Sony or, hell, beg Jimmy Iovine to sign them to Interscope without her. It's you who are bitter because she doesn't need them - and how ironic that she wasn't even wanted by them, and yet somehow through a karmic twist of fate, it's she who carries on? It's she who by and large brought the masses to the shows. It's her recording albums, even if sparsely, even if you think they aren't any good - they're still for sale. It's she who had their only number one song. It's Rhiannon that propelled Fleetwood Mac from a backwater blues-ish nobody band to the massive stars they became. Bitter because you know it is Stevie who has kept interest in Fleetwood Mac going all these years.

(Disclaimer: I cannot deny that Lindsey, Chris and Stevie made magic together. I *am* a fan of the Nicksian Fleetwood Mac's music, all of them, whether they record an album or not!)

I mean seriously - it's the same pathetic four or five individuals here who have kept these Stevie-bashing topics going for over a year. Don't you have anything better to do with your lives, your time, your energy, than talk scheiße about a nearly 70 year old woman who simply doesn't care what you think about her? Sad, really.

Stevie is the key to Fleetwood Mac and it just eats you up inside, doesn't it?

Well, have fun with that. :lol: I'll be over at any of the numerous Stevie Facebook groups, celebrating her tour, her music, her successes, and her vibrant career with the rest of her "bitter" fans.


And Michelle, we all know you're the owner here. These forums have lost so many regular members because of the overwhelming negativity that is The Ledge, but if these are the kinds of discussions you wish to foster, if this is the kind of "fan" board you wish to run, more power to you I guess. I hope you never look at your investment here as a waste.

Just speaking for myself, I'm a huge fan of Fleetwood Mac as a whole, and all of its members. I have no 'bitterness' about anything and certainly not about Stevie's popularity as an individual which I can acknowledge is a key part of what made Fleetwood Mac popular. The word that I think describes my feelings is disappointment. I'm disappointed in Stevie because of the position she's chosen to be in regarding this band. It seems like she doesn't really want to be a band member anymore, which is her right, because Lindsey and Christine experienced that as well. But the thing is, when Lindsey and Christine didn't want to be in the band anymore, they just left. Lindsey even did a big amount work on an album that became very successful and then left after that. Stevie knows that the rest of them want to make a final album to wrap things up and she knows that it would be very awkward to release an album without her, not only because she is their most popular member but also because it would just be a strange thing, after Christine came back and this being the final curtain for the band, how do they explain her not being there? For me at least, I have no problem at all understanding why they would be so hesitant because talk about a very awkward thing. As someone mentioned earlier, it would be like the weirdness of the 90s era of this band. She's leaving them in a weird state of limbo right now and that's not fair I don't think.

And while I agree with you that Stevie's star helped propel the band, I think more than anything, it was all of them together. In the time of Tango, their huge hits were Little Lies and Everywhere. Tango itself was their biggest album since Rumours and Stevie might as well not have been on it. Go Your Own Way is probably their most enduring song ever, I hear it way more than any other song, even if Dreams was the #1. In fact, and this is no attack on you, I think the argument that Stevie had the only band #1 is no longer relevant because they've had PLENTY of other songs become huge. Take a look at Spotify, which is the most popular streaming site around (and to me this is telling, because most people these days use streaming to listen to music) and you'll see that Go Your Own Way has a hell of a lot more streams than Dreams does. I would never deny that Stevie and her persona (for lack of a better word) was essential in getting FM to the top, but Lindsey and Christine and Mick and John were as well. When Stevie's solo career/her 'star' in general had fallen, it was The Dance that revived her (as well as the others).

I mentioned before that the titles of these threads say a lot 'Stevie fans' being pitted against 'Fleetwood Mac fans', even though Stevie is literally a member of Fleetwood Mac. But she's not acting like one and that's causing all the frustration. I of course don't think it's okay at all to be bashing her and I LOVE Stevie, but I really question why some Stevie fans can't just take their blinders off and realize that what she's doing right now is annoying to people and it's no wonder many are mad at her about it.

[24karatstevie]

As a Stevie fan and as a Fleetwood Mac fan, I just have to say that I am having a blast with Stevie's current tour. She sounds phenomenal, is full of life, and is singing songs I never thought she would. This is definitely a good time to be a Stevie fan! That being said I also understand the frustration felt here. I too would like to see a final album, hopefully with Stevie. I understand being frustrated but what I don't get is the constant Stevie bashing and name calling against Stevie. It's ok to be disappointed in her or even not like her but some of the things said against her are completely unwarranted and not even related to the topic at hand. I've also seen some not-so-nice things said about the other FM members as well. I guess I just don't understand all the hatred that has come about recently. I hope something does come up soon that works for everyone.

[bombaysaffires]

:lol::lol:

I always think of how funny it is to me when (and I have seen this a lot) some Stevie fans always make snarky comments about Lindsey's ego as if Stevie doesn't have an equally massive one herself. They just manifest themselves in different ways I think. With Lindsey it's more of his music and his overthought speeches and all that. And I think him having a family might've helped tame that, if only a little bit. With Stevie it's just her entire 'Stevie Nicks' thing. Show the IYD doc to ANYONE and they will walk away saying 'Stevie sure loves Stevie'.

yeah they both do for sure. but I think if the "fame" went away, he'd be ok with that (but I think if the money went away.....) If her fame went away she'd be most unhappy

[bombaysaffires]

I think so too. I think he's actually very insecure and unsure of himself. In my opinion, that's where a lot of his 'ego' comes from-- a need of validation. Like if you're not actually sure that you're good so you tell yourself that you are to make yourself feel better, along those lines.

He's a total libra.

I actually think it probably has to do with his childhood-- he grew up in a very male dominated, competitive athletic family. I mean, older brother is an Olympic medalist, he played himself on the water polo team, all 3 boys seemed very into sports and that in and of itself is a competitive thing... so I think he's always had pressure on him to do well and I think he internalized a lot of it.... just my armchair psychiatry ; )

[dreamsunwind]

I actually think it probably has to do with his childhood-- he grew up in a very male dominated, competitive athletic family. I mean, older brother is an Olympic medalist, he played himself on the water polo team, all 3 boys seemed very into sports and that in and of itself is a competitive thing... so I think he's always had pressure on him to do well and I think he internalized a lot of it.... just my armchair psychiatry ; )

Oh yeah, definitely. That's what I remembered about Richard's old blog, he told this funny story about when they went on a ski trip and Lindsey was a really bad skier and that embarrassed him a lot because he likes to be good at everything so he kept practicing over and over until he got better and he kept yelling at Richard to help him. It was a really cute story.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah Elle... why do you think Stevie fans are bitter?? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[iamnotafraid]

... why do you think Stevie fans are bitter?? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Alec says it's due to her not
releasing a good album since
November 18, 1985.

[HomerMcvie]

Alec says it's due to her not
releasing a good album since
November 18, 1985.

Oh good lort, wouldn't that have been Rock a Little?

Her last good one was Wild Heart.

[JohnL]

Oh good lort, wouldn't that have been Rock a Little?

Her last good one was Wild Heart.

Unlike Lindsey or Christine who have never released a decent solo album.

[TheWildHeart67]

I think Stevie WILL participate with the newFM album. Regardless of what's been said Her current tour has been a huge success and she's been filling large venues easily for the first time in a couple of decades. Madison Square Garden sold out 20,000 and the show I attended was 16,000 in Florida. She's enjoying this moment, and when it's over, I imagine she will contribute to the new FM album. I doubt they would tour without Stevie under the FM name. They are already contracted to a world tour with Stevie, and two tours would fragment the marketplace, confuse casual fans and, not to mention, wouldn't fill large venues. Regardless, I have no doubt Stevie will eventually contribute her parts and the album will be completed. This entire drama is par for the course with Fleetwood Mac.
It's funny how people feed into it so much and fight. Say rude things and what not. Everyone should chillax. I am not worried at all.

[HomerMcvie]

Unlike Lindsey or Christine who have never released a decent solo album.

The Stevie forum is VVV DOWN THERE VVV.

[elle]

Yeah Elle... why do you think Stevie fans are bitter?? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
i know, right? that was one angry rant!

one thing though, we definitely seem to be talking past each other, not really listening to what others are saying. apparently we push buttons in other fans that we don't even realize - and they in us. maybe we should try giving each other benefit of the doubt instead of immediately jumping to worst possible conclusions.

like this:

Unlike Lindsey or Christine who have never released a decent solo album.
what does this even mean? it's obviously inaccurate. was it posted just to provoke negative reaction? or was there a more positive intention behind it that i just can't grasp?

[aleuzzi]

Unlike Lindsey or Christine who have never released a decent solo album.

What. Ev. Er.

[bwboy]

what does this even mean? it's obviously inaccurate. was it posted just to provoke negative reaction? or was there a more positive intention behind it that i just can't grasp?

Homer said Stevie hadn't made a good album since 1983, so someone else just said the same thing about Lindsey and Christine.

[MikeInNV]

Homer said Stevie hadn't made a good album since 1983, so someone else just said the same thing about Lindsey and Christine.

Yep, they are both just opinions. No reason to be miffed by one and not the other.

[elle]

Homer said Stevie hadn't made a good album since 1983, so someone else just said the same thing about Lindsey and Christine.
so intention was just to escalate the negativity to higher level without meaning what they said?

but why would someone do that if we are trying to be positive?

[jbrownsjr]

Homer said Stevie hadn't made a good album since 1983, so someone else just said the same thing about Lindsey and Christine.

Homer said that??!!!

I can't believe it. Because I liked TOSOTM... and some of the older ledgies made fun of me for it. funny but true...

we all have our own tastes...

[dreamsunwind]

I love Stevie and I haven't really loved any of her solo albums since Bella Donna. Some of them I like some songs but as a whole album I've never been really impressed by anything except her debut.

I liked Christine's 1984 album, it wasn't a masterpiece or anything but I liked it. It's very Christine-y if that makes sense.

I think Lindsey's 1992 album is terrific.

[elle]

Homer said that??!!!

I can't believe it. Because I liked TOSOTM... and some of the older ledgies made fun of me for it. funny but true...

we all have our own tastes...
yup!

see, i would never say "all stevie's albums are bad" because a) i'm sure at least some of them are critically acclaimed (maybe we can take that as some kind of measure of objectivity?), and b) i haven't listened to any of her albums besides IYD, so i can't provide any kind of qualified opinion.

now, if this person was just trying to joke or be sarcastic because they think it's obviously untrue, it would help it they made that clear somehow. because not everyone is familiar with all Christine's or Lindsey's solo albums either. i never listened to Christine's solo albums, for example.

[iamnotafraid]

... wouldn't that have been Rock a Little?

Her last good one was Wild Heart.

I would agree that Wild Heart was
her last great one. But Alec thinks
differently.

David it seems some of your posts
aren't appreciated by the fans of the
traitor.

[jbrownsjr]

I would agree that Wild Heart was
her last great one. But Alec thinks
differently.

David it seems some of your posts
aren't appreciated by the fans of the
traitor.

She used to know who she was.

[iamnotafraid]

She used to know who she was.

Well her name's not Alice anymore. Her new
name rhymes with Benedict Arnold.

[KenshiMaster16]

I actually think TISL was her last greatest. :shrug: I can listen to 10 of the 13 tracks on repeat all day long.

And while I'm at it, I'll go ahead and say aside from Wild Heart, Stand Back and BATB, The Wild Heart album is overrated. :sorry:

But I can say some unpopular things about Lindsey albums as well so.... :rolleyes:

[JohnL]

The Stevie forum is VVV DOWN THERE VVV.

You stop being nasty and I will quit posting here. So looks like we are at an impass. And I can honestly say that what I said was my true opinion...not just trying to stir the pot. I find Lindsey's solo music very either way out there or whispery and fluff. I have never enjoyed it and I find it irritating to my ears. Christine I have to admit is much better. I enjoy some of her solo work but I have never really enjoyed an entire album. Her stuff gets a little too sugary for me. I love her voice but I need it in small doses. My point is that we all have opinions and sometimes they are best kept to ourselves for the sake of unity. This is a FM board...not lets pick on one member board and alienate part of the members.

[olive]

https://cinemaknifefight.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/movie-popcorn-calories-400x400.jpg

[jbrownsjr]

https://cinemaknifefight.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/movie-popcorn-calories-400x400.jpg

haha... I've been waiting for you...

I will follow you down.............. :)

[olive]

haha... I've been waiting for you...

I will follow you down.............. :)

enjoy it , it's just a matter of time before it is removed or edited :angel:

[jbrownsjr]

enjoy it , it's just a matter of time before it is removed or edited :angel:

I don't think so. Michele has a great sense of humor. Which is what makes the board fun.

[olive]

I don't think so. Michele has a great sense of humor. Which is what makes the board fun.

i know she does , she gets it

[HomerMcvie]

You stop being nasty and I will quit posting here. So looks like we are at an impass. And I can honestly say that what I said was my true opinion...not just trying to stir the pot. I find Lindsey's solo music very either way out there or whispery and fluff. I have never enjoyed it and I find it irritating to my ears. Christine I have to admit is much better. I enjoy some of her solo work but I have never really enjoyed an entire album. Her stuff gets a little too sugary for me. I love her voice but I need it in small doses. My point is that we all have opinions and sometimes they are best kept to ourselves for the sake of unity. This is a FM board...not lets pick on one member board and alienate part of the members.

I WILL post my opinions of FM member's albums, and you will like it, or not. I don't really care, and I'M NOT HERE TO PLEASE YOU. If that doesn't sit well with you, do whatever you like. I can think of several options, but those would be nasty to post, so I won't.

Have a good day!:angel:

[HomerMcvie]

Homer said that??!!!

I can't believe it. Because I liked TOSOTM... and some of the older ledgies made fun of me for it. funny but true...

we all have our own tastes...

Oh please, TOSOTM is trash!!! I bought that clunker the day it came out, and TRIED to like it. I listened to it for a couple of months, and realized how far she'd fallen. I finally gave up on it, and it's lying in a pile of rubbish, somewhere in my music room.

For people who think I hate all of Stevie's work, nothing could be farther from the truth. I absolutely LOVE Bella Donna. I think it's one of the greatest records ever made! Because the music sounds like The Eagles, featuring Stevie on vocals. Damn, I love that album!!!

[Macfanforever]

The band politics chats here are worst then the world politics.Maybe it should be banned and just chat about nice things about this band.I know It will make this forum boring without it.

[olive]

I WILL post my opinions of FM member's albums, and you will like it, or not. I don't really care, and I'M NOT HERE TO PLEASE YOU. If that doesn't sit well with you, do whatever you like. I can think of several options, but those would be nasty to post, so I won't.

Have a good day!:angel:

thank you :xoxo:

[olive]

The band politics chats here are worst then the world politics.Maybe it should be banned and just chat about nice things about this band.I know It will make this forum boring without it.

no , this is turning into a millennial's playground

[SisterNightroad]

I just want to remind people that if you really have problems with other members, the content of their posts and/or the way it's expressed you can and should block them. You just have to click on their name to access their private profile and then "Add [insert member name here] to Your Ignore List" and you'll never see their posts anymore.

[jbrownsjr]

I just want to remind people that if you really have problems with other members, the content of their posts and/or the way it's expressed you can and should block them. You just have to click on their name to access their private profile and then "Add [insert member name here] to Your Ignore List" and you'll never see their posts anymore.

I want to block Homer for trashing The Other Side of the Mirror!

But I love him personally so I won't. :lol:

[olive]

I want to block Homer for trashing The Other Side of the Mirror!

But I love him personally so I won't. :lol:

block me everyone else has :thumbsup:

[jbrownsjr]

block me everyone else has :thumbsup:

I love my olive. Stevie fan.. goes to the concerts... yet honest..

blasphemy!!

[SisterNightroad]

block me everyone else has :thumbsup:
How do you know that?
Because if you think that because too few people reply to your posts then I have to inform you that in reality it's because on this board are left only about three or four people.

[HomerMcvie]

I want to block Homer for trashing The Other Side of the Mirror!

But I love him personally so I won't. :lol:

You can block me J, as long as you don't **** block me!

And TOSOTM blows goats!

No, not that one.:lol:

[HomerMcvie]

block me everyone else has :thumbsup:

I would never block you!:angel:

[elle]

How do you know that?
Because if you think that because too few people reply to your posts then I have to inform you that in reality it's because on this board are left only about three or four people.

so i just opened page 9 of this thread and there are posts from 11 different people there, most of them yesterday. so i'm not sure that your counting technique works really well. ;) :lol:

[elle]

https://cinemaknifefight.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/movie-popcorn-calories-400x400.jpg
love it! :]

banned and just chat about nice things about this band. I know It will make this forum boring without it.

lol yeah. it's funny, every time there's ongoing argument here, you see huge numbers of viewers flocking to the forum - yet some people insist that everyone leaves when people discuss and express opposing views!

block me everyone else has :thumbsup:
lol i know what you mean. it's pretty easy to deduce who blocked you, i sure have some idea about all the people who blocked me!

on the other hand, while blocking can be a survival technique on places like twitter, on moderated boards like this i just don't read topics where i have no interest but i do like to see and appreciate different points of view on topics that i care about. plus, if someone singles me out by name and calls me a pathetic loser for expressing my views i kinda wanna know. :lol: ;) :angel:

[SisterNightroad]

so i just opened page 9 of this thread and there are posts from 11 different people there, most of them yesterday. so i'm not sure that your counting technique works really well. ;) :lol:
Then I'll introduce you to my dear old friend Hyperbole.

[elle]

Then I'll introduce you to my dear old friend Hyperbole.

:lol: not working for me, just sounds snarky! :p

aren't you a mod here so should try to make peace? :angel:

[olive]

How do you know that?
Because if you think that because too few people reply to your posts then I have to inform you that in reality it's because on this board are left only about three or four people.

it was sarcasm , a bit of humor :) the thing that has gone missing from this board

i could care less if no one responds i am not that fragile

BUT ... I do hate being censored by sensitive moderators ( not you)

[HomerMcvie]

it was sarcasm , a bit of humor :) the thing that has gone missing from this board

i could care less if no one responds i am not that fragile

BUT ... I do hate being censored by sensitive moderators ( not you)

I agree. And I hate that many don't get that I'm a funny, loving person. No really, I am!!! (I'm serious)

I used to worry about disagreeing with others here, that they wouldn't like me. But now, I've got the people I care about, already in my corner. Newbies can learn to love me, or not. Either way, I'm good.

I think the Great Ledge Implosion of 2007(??) was completely caused by overly sensitive moderators. Things got really out of hand, and a bunch of people left, and new boards were started... I think Michele is the best thing that ever happened here(no, I'm not kissing up. I sincerely mean that).

[SisterNightroad]

:lol: not working for me, just sounds snarky! :p

aren't you a mod here so should try to make peace? :angel:
Snarky? Hardly. Sarcastic, yes.

it was sarcasm , a bit of humor :) the thing that has gone missing from this board

i could care less if no one responds i am not that fragile

BUT ... I do hate being censored by sensitive moderators (not you)
Mine was sarcasm too, but I guess in my mother language worked better.


Seriously guys this board used to be funnier.

[HomerMcvie]

Seriously guys this board used to be funnier.

I really think that it's the Stevie fans. Because when something negative is said about her, THEY CAN'T TAKE IT.


Call Chris a tranny all you want. I think it's funny.:lol:

[SisterNightroad]

I agree. And I hate that many don't get that I'm a funny, loving person. No really, I am!!! (I'm serious)

I used to worry about disagreeing with others here, that they wouldn't like me. But now, I've got the people I care about, already in my corner. Newbies can learn to love me, or not. Either way, I'm good.

I think the Great Ledge Implosion of 2007(??) was completely caused by overly sensitive moderators. Things got really out of hand, and a bunch of people left, and new boards were started... I think Michele is the best thing that ever happened here(no, I'm not kissing up. I sincerely mean that).
What is the Great Ledge Implosion?
I really want to know, I was too young then to be here.

I really think that it's the Stevie fans. Because when something negative is said about her, THEY CAN'T TAKE IT.


Call Chris a tranny all you want. I think it's funny.:lol:
I am a Stevie fan, and I'm funny, and I assure you I'm not the only one. And I'm also attractive.

[olive]

Snarky? Hardly. Sarcastic, yes.


Mine was sarcasm too, but I guess in my mother language worked better.


Seriously guys this board used to be funnier.

i got the part about the same 3 people posting

[jbrownsjr]

If those Stevie fans come over here and make fun of Christine fans.. I'm taking my 10 Christine fans and we're never coming back!!!

You're lucky she even performs for you BASTARDS!!! :p

[olive]

If those Stevie fans come over here and make fun of Christine fans.. I'm taking my 10 Christine fans and we're never coming back!!!

You're lucky she even performs for you BASTARDS!!! :p

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/11/standing-ovation.gif

[elle]

I agree. And I hate that many don't get that I'm a funny, loving person. No really, I am!!! (I'm serious)

I used to worry about disagreeing with others here, that they wouldn't like me. But now, I've got the people I care about, already in my corner. Newbies can learn to love me, or not. Either way, I'm good.

I think the Great Ledge Implosion of 2007(??) was completely caused by overly sensitive moderators. Things got really out of hand, and a bunch of people left, and new boards were started... I think Michele is the best thing that ever happened here(no, I'm not kissing up. I sincerely mean that).

funny maybe, but i don't know about loving! :p :lol:

i think joking, disagreeing, discussing on places like this, about topics that do not personally really touch us, is a great outlet since most of us have to be much more diplomatic irl.

and, people who repeatedly claim that this place is not hopping like it used to and trying to assign their favorite chosen reasons, like types of posts and posters, are completely dismissing that boards like this are a relic of the times before the explosion of social media (which i personally love but it also allows for more and more complete isolation, perpetuation of group think and people living in their own separate realities).

[elle]

Snarky? Hardly. Sarcastic, yes.


Mine was sarcasm too, but I guess in my mother language worked better.


Seriously guys this board used to be funnier.

yup if you are trying at humor it certainly is not coming across - whether it's the language barrier or just the fact there's no tone in writing. plus your persistent refusal to use emojis doesn't help! :lol: :p

we'll give you a chance though, keep on trying! :] :cool:


PS this post is mostly humor, no sarcasm. :angel:

[jbrownsjr]

yup if you are trying at humor it certainly is not coming across - whether it's the language barrier or just the fact there's no tone in writing. plus your persistent refusal to use emojis doesn't help! :lol: :p

we'll give you a chance though, keep on trying! :] :cool:


PS this post is mostly humor, no sarcasm. :angel:

All posts require sarcasm. It confuses the chiffons. Their white wing doves fly away.

[HomerMcvie]

All posts require sarcasm. It confuses the chiffons. Their white wing doves fly away.

I love you.

[olive]

All posts require sarcasm. It confuses the chiffons. Their white wing doves fly away.

the sensitive and oh so very young

[HomerMcvie]

What is the Great Ledge Implosion?
I really want to know, I was too young then to be here.


It was really clique-y back then. We became a group of friends even outside the Ledge, having parties and going to FM shows.

(the following is ONLY my opinion, nothing more)

And our strength as friends was obvious, and the sarcasm was over the top sometimes(because we knew each other, personally).

Then along came this young poster, who posted constantly. He would start multiple threads on the same topic, all within minutes! He was warned by mods, and mocked by members, for doing so, and yet he continued.

Then, one of the mods essentially gave him carte blanche, and told us all that he could do as he liked, and strikes would be given to anyone complaining about it. So of course he continued...and things felt more heated. The pot kept boiling....

Then one night, a member privately asked us all to make this picture(the back side of a horse - yes, a horse's ass - even though it wasn't a "dirty" pic[no anus or anything]) our signature pic. Well, like 35 of us did it. I wasn't even sure WHY we were doing it, but I was part of the group, so I did it(it was making fun of a moderator-ironically, NOT the "carte blanche" mod).

So the next morning, about 30 of us were banned from the Ledge(I believe it was for 30 days). Strangely, 3-4 people weren't banned for the pic, so the fact that a select few weren't included in the ban, obviously didn't sit well.

So immediately, a private message board was started, where we all bitched incessantly about the mods, and mocking memes were made, concerning the young poster.

Back to the ban, after about 3 days, the ban was lifted, and we all got an apology from the "head mod", that he overreacted. Well, for some, it was a little too little, a little too late. I personally stayed away for about 3 years. All I did was put a picture of a horse as my sig!!! I have the apology saved as a word doc to this day.

Because in all our opinions, the mods were out of hand. They'd taken a place we worshiped, and turned it into their own vision, all for the sake of giving some extremely annoying kid free reign to do whatever he wished.

The private board went on for several years. IDK if it still exists or not, because another member and I left the group. Turns out there IS such a thing as being too snarky and hateful. It was fun for a while, but the negativity got too dark, and it just felt like hate, being there. Again, that board was completely private, so it was "anything goes" there. A snitch was eventually found, and that board was shut down, and another started. I could go on and on, but you get the gist...

[SisterNightroad]

It was really clique-y back then. We became a group of friends even outside the Ledge, having parties and going to FM shows.

(the following is ONLY my opinion, nothing more)

And our strength as friends was obvious, and the sarcasm was over the top sometimes(because we knew each other, personally).

Then along came this young poster, who posted constantly. He would start multiple threads on the same topic, all within minutes! He was warned by mods, and mocked by members, for doing so, and yet he continued.

Then, one of the mods essentially gave him carte blanche, and told us all that he could do as he liked, and strikes would be given to anyone complaining about it. So of course he continued...and things felt more heated. The pot kept boiling....

Then one night, a member privately asked us all to make this picture(the back side of a horse - yes, a horse's ass - even though it wasn't a "dirty" pic[no anus or anything]) our signature pic. Well, like 35 of us did it. I wasn't even sure WHY we were doing it, but I was part of the group, so I did it(it was making fun of a moderator-ironically, NOT the "carte blanche" mod).

So the next morning, about 30 of us were banned from the Ledge(I believe it was for 30 days). Strangely, 3-4 people weren't banned for the pic, so the fact that a select few weren't included in the ban, obviously didn't sit well.

So immediately, a private message board was started, where we all bitched incessantly about the mods, and mocking memes were made, concerning the young poster.

Back to the ban, after about 3 days, the ban was lifted, and we all got an apology from the "head mod", that he overreacted. Well, for some, it was a little too little, a little too late. I personally stayed away for about 3 years. All I did was put a picture of a horse as my sig!!! I have the apology saved as a word doc to this day.

Because in all our opinions, the mods were out of hand. They'd taken a place we worshiped, and turned it into their own vision, all for the sake of giving some extremely annoying kid free reign to do whatever he wished.

The private board went on for several years. IDK if it still exists or not, because another member and I left the group. Turns out there IS such a thing as being too snarky and hateful. It was fun for a while, but the negativity got too dark, and it just felt like hate, being there. Again, that board was completely private, so it was "anything goes" there. A snitch was eventually found, and that board was shut down, and another started. I could go on and on, but you get the gist...
...Has this board ever been normal?

[olive]

...Has this board ever been normal?

there will always be someone who needs control and abuse the "power " bestowed on them to moderate and equally there will always be a member who needs attention and the need to control content


then there are the rest of us

[FuzzyPlum]

Call Chris a tranny all you want. I think it's funny.:lol:


Stop now

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/87/fb/04/87fb04cc5a28c5acd53d4eb0cee4116f.jpg

Not amused

[HomerMcvie]

Stop now

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/87/fb/04/87fb04cc5a28c5acd53d4eb0cee4116f.jpg

Not amused

I love Christine with all my heart.

I don't get star struck...I really don't. I think that she's probably the only person alive that I could meet, where I'd be scared to death to even say anything.

She'd probably tell me I'm wearing a stupid f*cking shirt or something!

[FuzzyPlum]

I love Christine with all my heart.

I don't get star struck...I really don't. I think that she's probably the only person alive that I could meet, where I'd be scared to death to even say anything.

She'd probably tell me I'm wearing a stupid f*cking shirt or something!

I think there was a time when she was like that. I'm sure she's mellowed now though- She just a nice, polite lady. Complete opposite- if you were wearing something hideous she's probably complement you to make you feel good.

[elle]

I love Christine with all my heart.

I don't get star struck...I really don't. I think that she's probably the only person alive that I could meet, where I'd be scared to death to even say anything.

She'd probably tell me I'm wearing a stupid f*cking shirt or something!

I think there was a time when she was like that. I'm sure she's mellowed now though- She just a nice, polite lady. Complete opposite- if you were wearing something hideous she's probably complement you to make you feel good.

how cool would it be if Christine does some meet & greets on their tour of 4?

[HomerMcvie]

I think there was a time when she was like that. I'm sure she's mellowed now though- She just a nice, polite lady. Complete opposite- if you were wearing something hideous she's probably complement you to make you feel good.

You get the reference, right?

That was one of Ken Caillat's stories. They were in the studio, and he came in wearing a Hawaiian(I believe) shirt. Chris told him he was wearing a "f*cking stupid shirt". He was using that to show how sarcastic she was.

I've read a lot of really bad things that Bob Welch's wife(RIP) had to say about her, too.

Unlike (my perception of) Stevie fans, I do believe that they're probably true.

I still love her, but I'm more than a little afraid of her!!!:lol::lol::lol:


(although I'm sure you're right, that she's mellowed with age, just like the rest of them....except that short girl)

[HomerMcvie]

how cool would it be if Christine does some meet & greets on their tour of 4?

I'd literally give 10K, if I could spend a couple hours with her, listening to FM stories of old, and knocking back a couple bottles of wine.

[elle]

I'd literally give 10K, if I could spend a couple hours with her, listening to FM stories of old, and knocking back a couple bottles of wine.

man you are greedy! i meant something more realistic (although i kinda seriously doubt she'd do m&gs), like a 2 mins m&g and a quick pic.

kinda like what LB did on some of the dates of his OMS tour. it was still great to have that opportunity, you can pack a lot in couple of minutes! if they'd tour and give us a choice of LB or CM m&g (i know i know, never gonna happen!), i'd definitely pick her (and he would consider it a treason and never talk to me again lol).

[FuzzyPlum]

You get the reference, right?

That was one of Ken Caillat's stories. They were in the studio, and he came in wearing a Hawaiian(I believe) shirt. Chris told him he was wearing a "f*cking stupid shirt". He was using that to show how sarcastic she was.

I've read a lot of really bad things that Bob Welch's wife(RIP) had to say about her, too.

Unlike (my perception of) Stevie fans, I do believe that they're probably true.

I still love her, but I'm more than a little afraid of her!!!:lol::lol::lol:


(although I'm sure you're right, that she's mellowed with age, just like the rest of them....except that short girl)

Ha. Sorry I didn't get the reference. Vaguely recall reading it now. Might have to go back and read it again. I don't wholeheartedly believe the things Wendy said. As ever there are always two sides to every story. I'm sure Chris never gave two sh!ts enough to argue her side back.

[Macfanforever]

Stop now

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/87/fb/04/87fb04cc5a28c5acd53d4eb0cee4116f.jpg

Not amused

Oh my god.The middle finger salute. Who's she pissed at.The photographer taking that shot.

[iamnotafraid]

The middle finger salute. Who's she pissed at.The photographer taking that shot.

I'd be willing to bet that she's about to
give Stevie one of those salutes.

[HomerMcvie]

I'd be willing to bet that she's about to
give Stevie one of those salutes.

As well she should. Ingrate!!!!:mad:

[jbrownsjr]

As well she should. Ingrate!!!!:mad:

Please Christine.. come back... I can't record without you...

Oh, nevermind..

[Macfanforever]

I'd be willing to bet that she's about to
give Stevie one of those salutes.

Yes.I think I rather get the salute then a hot cup of tea or any other beverage in my face.LOL,

[HomerMcvie]

Please Christine.. come back... I can't record without you...

Oh, nevermind..

Psychotic loon, party of one...


(not you):p

[jbrownsjr]

Psychotic loon, party of one...


(not you):p

I've been called worse. lol

[SteveMacD]

I think Stevie WILL participate with the newFM album.
I'm skeptical, and I don't care at this point. I'm mainly buying it for the Christine and Lindsey songs. That's apparently where the chemistry is these days.

Regardless of what's been said Her current tour has been a huge success and she's been filling large venues easily for the first time in a couple of decades.
The thing I've noticed is that her solo shows do better following tours with the full classic lineup. That's the only reason why I still think there's a chance she'll participate. Not because she wants to, but because it's better for business.

I doubt they would tour without Stevie under the FM name.
I wouldn't put it past them. The problem for Stevie is that it might be viable and they might have more fun without her. Lindsey and Christine have enough hits between them to put on a great show.

They are already contracted to a world tour with Stevie, and two tours would fragment the marketplace, confuse casual fans and, not to mention, wouldn't fill large venues.
On the other hand, a smaller tour would require maybe like a tenth of the crew, which means there would be more money to go around if ticket prices were comparable. As for any confusion, that's simple marketing.

[secondhandchain]

The Pretenders are helping ALOT. Don't think she could quite sell that much without them.

[pattyfan]

Maybe Buckingham McVie can open for Stevie Nicks? :) Or vice versa. Wouldn't THAT be interesting. :)

Kevin

[HomerMcvie]

Maybe Buckingham McVie can open for Stevie Nicks? :) Or vice versa. Wouldn't THAT be interesting. :)

Kevin

She would NEVER open for them, IMO. And actually, nor they for her.

Too many GIGANTIC EGOS for that stage to be shared in that manner.

[iamnotafraid]

She would NEVER open for them...

Can you imagine the scenario where Lindsey
calls to tell Stevie that they're going to make
the album without her and are going to tour
behind it. And then he offers her a chance
to open for them.

[bwboy]

Can you imagine the scenario where Lindsey
calls to tell Stevie that they're going to make
the album without her and are going to tour
behind it. And then he offers her a chance
to open for them.

I suppose that's as amusing as Stevie offering FM a chance to open for her.

[iamnotafraid]

I suppose that's as amusing as Stevie offering FM a chance to open for her.

I must have hit a nerve.

[SteveMacD]

She would NEVER open for them, IMO. And actually, nor they for her.

Too many GIGANTIC EGOS for that stage to be shared in that manner.
More like too much money getting left on the table by not simply going out as the classic Fleetwood Mac.

[pattyfan]

She would NEVER open for them, IMO. And actually, nor they for her.

Too many GIGANTIC EGOS for that stage to be shared in that manner.


I wasn't suggesting that would ever happen. It was a joke. :) I figured everyone here would get that, but I guess I should have been clearer. :)

Kevin

[HomerMcvie]

I wasn't suggesting that would ever happen. It was a joke. :) I figured everyone here would get that, but I guess I should have been clearer. :)

Kevin

I think everyone knew it was a joke. I was only pointing out how ridiculous the notion was...

[FuzzyPlum]

Maybe The Heartbreakers could open for Fleetwood Mac and she could play a bit with both.

[bwboy]

I must have hit a nerve.

Not at all.

[JohnL]

I WILL post my opinions of FM member's albums, and you will like it, or not. I don't really care, and I'M NOT HERE TO PLEASE YOU. If that doesn't sit well with you, do whatever you like. I can think of several options, but those would be nasty to post, so I won't.

Have a good day!:angel:

What a trip. And thanks for the caps so that I know you mean business. LOL Ridiculous. Lord forbid anyone should expect any kind of respect or courtesy anymore anywhere. The fact that this continues to happen over and over by the same 3 or 4 people on this board is entertaining and frustrating all at the same time. You are right...you are not here to please me and vice versa. I have been a member of this board for probably 20 years almost. I have NEVER EVER EVER seen it sink to these lows before. I guess the choice is mine. I will move myself back to the Stevie board where I belong. Will you miss me?:lol:

Oh...and I hear the goat is taking her show on the road down under. Looks like no Stevie on a FM album. I know you are devastated. Maybe the new music will see the light of day when one of them kicks the bucket.

[HomerMcvie]

What a trip. And thanks for the caps so that I know you mean business. LOL Ridiculous. Lord forbid anyone should expect any kind of respect or courtesy anymore anywhere. The fact that this continues to happen over and over by the same 3 or 4 people on this board is entertaining and frustrating all at the same time. You are right...you are not here to please me and vice versa. I have been a member of this board for probably 20 years almost. I have NEVER EVER EVER seen it sink to these lows before. I guess the choice is mine. I will move myself back to the Stevie board where I belong. Will you miss me?:lol:

Oh...and I hear the goat is taking her show on the road down under. Looks like no Stevie on a FM album. I know you are devastated. Maybe the new music will see the light of day when one of them kicks the bucket.

You seemed unwilling to accept any opinion varying from your own, so I merely pointed out the facts. Adults have varying opinions, and we're allowed to express them here. Thank god this isn't the old "Seven Wonders" board(fan worship, only). Have a nice day. Let me know how the Stevie forum is!:angel:

[JohnL]

You seemed unwilling to accept any opinion varying from your own, so I merely pointed out the facts. Adults have varying opinions, and we're allowed to express them here. Thank god this isn't the old "Seven Wonders" board(fan worship, only). Have a nice day. Let me know how the Stevie forum is!:angel:

Funny, I have always though that you can express opinions without being rude and obnoxious. Last time I checked Stevie was part of the Rumours era of this band so I am sure I will be here from time to time despite the attempt at banishing me to the Stevie board. Have a wonderful and joyous holiday season. May the warmth of Christmas flood your heart and this board. :thumbsup:

[HomerMcvie]

Funny, I have always though that you can express opinions without being rude and obnoxious. Last time I checked Stevie was part of the Rumours era of this band so I am sure I will be here from time to time despite the attempt at banishing me to the Stevie board. Have a wonderful and joyous holiday season. May the warmth of Christmas flood your heart and this board. :thumbsup:

I wasn't attempting to banish you to anywhere. I don't have that power, nor would I want that power.

But it seems the Stevie to whom you're referring, ~that is "part" of the Rumours era~, REFUSES to record with the Rumours era members, thus rendering them an oldies act.

Artists produce. Has beens rest on their laurels. As far as we can see, only one of them no longer wants to produce...

[SisterNightroad]

I wasn't attempting to banish you to anywhere. I don't have that power, nor would I want that power.

But it seems the Stevie to whom you're referring, ~that is "part" of the Rumours era~, REFUSES to record with the Rumours era members, thus rendering them an oldies act.

Artists produce. Has beens rest on their laurels. As far as we can see, only one of them no longer wants to produce...
This band is an oldies band since late 90s. Unfortunately bands enter the "oldies" status unbeknownst to them and it has nothing to do with their productivity. Unfortunately all the classic old bands that are still active nowadays still own almost all of their credit and fanbase due to their past productions and even if they make new songs they meet lukewarm interest both in and out of the stage.

[pauls90]

Unfortunately all the classic old bands that are still active nowadays still own almost all of their credit and fanbase due to their past productions and even if they make new songs they meet lukewarm interest both in and out of the stage.

How very sad.

Just because you're not gaining as much interest as your peak doesn't mean you just stop - at least if you're an *actual* artist anyway - something those other "old bands" have apparently learned.

It's funny because Stevie likes to use this excuse too but then goes and puts out her own record regardless...

[SteveMacD]

It's funny because Stevie likes to use this excuse too but then goes and puts out her own record regardless...
Stevie was obligated under contract to make albums. That said, her last album was done in two weeks an was made up of old demos she found on YouTube. If not for the contract, I doubt she would have recorded 24KG.

[STEVEHEDRICK]

I just dont care if they record, the last cd i rarely listen to!

[SisterNightroad]

How very sad.

Just because you're not gaining as much interest as your peak doesn't mean you just stop - at least if you're an *actual* artist anyway - something those other "old bands" have apparently learned.

It's funny because Stevie likes to use this excuse too but then goes and puts out her own record regardless...
No, it's not sad, it's just the way things are; all classic rock acts regardless of the fact whether they still produce material or not are "oldies act" because with time they traded their once status of novelty and avantgarde to become the legends and pioneers of the past.
And nobody has to stop making music nor did I meant it as an excuse, I bought both Stevie's album and that of Elton John but I don't hear them that often as Bella Donna or GYBR.

[dreamsunwind]

This band is an oldies band since late 90s. Unfortunately bands enter the "oldies" status unbeknownst to them and it has nothing to do with their productivity. Unfortunately all the classic old bands that are still active nowadays still own almost all of their credit and fanbase due to their past productions and even if they make new songs they meet lukewarm interest both in and out of the stage.

This is very true, along with the other response you just wrote. I think that's why they're so hesitant to release an album without her, they think no one's gonna buy it anyways and a huge portion of their audience won't care to hear the songs.

[Aussie W/Heart]

This is very true, along with the other response you just wrote. I think that's why they're so hesitant to release an album without her, they think no one's gonna buy it anyways and a huge portion of their audience won't care to hear the songs.

I agree, and will add that if Stevie was NOT such a big draw card under the FM name. Very possibly a new album with the rest of the band could of been released by now, without any hesitation.. Ego's or failure of the bands name after their previous huge world tour, with raving reviews, ticket sales etc is not something they would want to risk.. Ever!! but i hope they prove me wrong and have a go, as for their diehard fans waiting to hear new stuff from LB and CM will have something to be happy about..

[aleuzzi]

I agree, and will add that if Stevie was NOT such a big draw card under the FM name. Very possibly a new album with the rest of the band could of been released by now, without any hesitation.. Ego's or failure of the bands name after their previous huge world tour, with raving reviews, ticket sales etc is not something they would want to risk.. Ever!! but i hope they prove me wrong and have a go, as for their diehard fans waiting to hear new stuff from LB and CM will have something to be happy about..

Both LB and CM have made records they knew would not sell very well. I don't think either of them hold sales as a priority anymore. Mick, on the other hand, is still VERY concerned with the FM machine running at full capacity to generate as much $$$ as possible. Perhaps HE was the one holding up progress on the album to allow Stevie a chance to change her mind. She didn't and they're presumably finishing the album as we speak. Presumably. No one knows this band.

[iamnotafraid]

May the warmth of Christmas flood your heart and this board...

Some say David was born with a heart
two sizes too small.

[HomerMcvie]

Some say David was born with a heart
two sizes too small.

Thank you. I appreciate your input. Happy Holidays.

[iamnotafraid]

Thank you. I appreciate your input. Happy Holidays.

It's from my second favorite Christmas show.

[Aussie W/Heart]

Both LB and CM have made records they knew would not sell very well. I don't think either of them hold sales as a priority anymore. Mick, on the other hand, is still VERY concerned with the FM machine running at full capacity to generate as much $$$ as possible. Perhaps HE was the one holding up progress on the album to allow Stevie a chance to change her mind. She didn't and they're presumably finishing the album as we speak. Presumably. No one knows this band.


Maybe they will decide to throw caution to the wind and just FINISH IT!!
(i hope so) since Stevie mentioned that an Australia tour :D could be on the cards in 2017.. Then commence their world tour in 2018, play a couple of their new songs, be brave and mix up their set list, then EVERYONE would be happy including the band.. I think!! :shrug: :D

[James89]

Everything is planned out, they just don't announce anything until it's close to the event.

[elle]

Maybe they will decide to throw caution to the wind and just FINISH IT!!
(i hope so) since Stevie mentioned that an Australia tour :D could be on the cards in 2017.. Then commence their world tour in 2018, play a couple of their new songs, be brave and mix up their set list, then EVERYONE would be happy including the band.. I think!! :shrug: :D

just to fill in the timeline - if you look at the "2017 tour" thread, you will see that there's a talk about either FM 4 or at least Christine and Lindsey touring their new album in 2017. i really hope that happens - only in that case "EVERYONE will be happy including the band".

timeline fits - if they are about finished with the album, they should be able to put it out in spring 2017 and start the tour at the same time. they have the whole 2017 to tour it!

i'm glad to hear about possible Australian tour in 2017 for Stevie, that would make above even more feasible. there's no reason for the band to sit out the whole 2017.

[Newzchspy]

How very sad.

Just because you're not gaining as much interest as your peak doesn't mean you just stop - at least if you're an *actual* artist anyway - something those other "old bands" have apparently learned.

It's funny because Stevie likes to use this excuse too but then goes and puts out her own record regardless...

ONLY because her label requires her to to fulfill the requirements of a contract.

Let's face it, Stevie is 75% of the Mac and Lindsey is the other 25%. Without Stevie, FM is dead in the water!!! Show of hands: Who would go to a FM show without Stevie in the lineup?? Yeah, thought so!!!


FM has the about the same ability to survive without Stevie as MotorHead without Lemmy. That is NONE!!! If Stevie called it quits, Mick F would be soiling his drawers and the house of cards would be falling rapidly!!

[elle]

and here we go again. personal bias and negativity. :distress:

[Newzchspy]

and here we go again. personal bias and negativity. :distress:

I'm sorry, BUT what part of this is bias or negative?? Fact is, the Mac is NOT the Mac without Stevie (and quite frankly Lindsey) . That ship sailed 40 years ago with Rumors and the White Album. I can't imagine a single promoter who'd touch the "Mac" without Stevie. That's no bias or negativity, just the facts .

When Lindsey and Stevie signed on to the Mac in the mid 70s, all bets were OFF as to the future of the band. They are "inextricably connected". Lose one of the two (Lindzers or Stevie) and the band is done!!

[SteveMacD]

I'm sorry, BUT what part of this is bias or negative?? Fact is, the Mac is NOT the Mac without Stevie (and quite frankly Lindsey) .
I'll keep that in mind when I listen to "Bare Trees" a little later tonight.

The FACT is the 2014-15 tour was MUCH bigger than the 2013. Stevie and Lindsey were on both tours, only one singer wasn't. Stevie, while being the big name and the big solo career, had the fewest top-10 hits (2), followed by Lindsey (3), and then Christine (4).

It's like CSN vs. CSNY. Neil is the undisputed star of the band, but it's still viable when he's not there because he didn't necessarily define their sound.

[iamnotafraid]

Why don't we forget about the past since
we can't change it. Then we can lay the
blame at the feet of the person who is only
thinking about themselves right now.

[jbrownsjr]

I'll keep that in mind when I listen to "Bare Trees" a little later tonight.

The FACT is the 2014-15 tour was MUCH bigger than the 2013. Stevie and Lindsey were on both tours, only one singer wasn't. Stevie, while being the big name and the big solo career, had the fewest top-10 hits (2), followed by Lindsey (3), and then Christine (4).

It's like CSN vs. CSNY. Neil is the undisputed star of the band, but it's still viable when he's not there because he didn't necessarily define their sound.

It' true. With B/N they were having a hard time selling out arenas, Staples case in point. When Christine came back, they did 7 sold out shows in LA!

[jbrownsjr]

and here we go again. personal bias and negativity. :distress:

I don't know why you think SN fans are bitter.

[HomerMcvie]

I don't know why you think SN fans are bitter.

Because they can't imagine a FM without their queen. We've all dealt with FM minus Chris or Lindsey, but they're not having it. The band doesn't exist without old what's her name!

[Aussie W/Heart]

just to fill in the timeline - if you look at the "2017 tour" thread, you will see that there's a talk about either FM 4 or at least Christine and Lindsey touring their new album in 2017. i really hope that happens - only in that case "EVERYONE will be happy including the band".

timeline fits - if they are about finished with the album, they should be able to put it out in spring 2017 and start the tour at the same time. they have the whole 2017 to tour it!

i'm glad to hear about possible Australian tour in 2017 for Stevie, that would make above even more feasible. there's no reason for the band to sit out the whole 2017.

Yes, (i didn't explain myself well) FM 4some should release their music asap, like early next year, then a smallish tour behind their new album mid 2017, while Stevie does her solo shows.. she likes to come here around middle of Nov, so gives the rest of Mac plenty of time to do something between now and then.. :D A few pro's and con's, and bit of weighing up to do, i wish them luck :thumbsup:

[nicepace]

Let's face it, Stevie is 75% of the Mac and Lindsey is the other 25%. Without Stevie, FM is dead in the water!!!

Oh please. Maybe that's the way you feel about this band, but I don't think you'll find much agreement on this board. All those exclamation points and "let's face it" don't turn your opinion into fact, and they don't make the rest of us change our minds to agree with you.


Show of hands: Who would go to a FM show without Stevie in the lineup?? Yeah, thought so!!!

If you read through the recent threads, you will see there are many, many fans here who would not only go to a FM show without Stevie, but would be absolutely thrilled to see that lineup. Meanwhile Stevie fans should be happy too, because their goddess is out on her own doing her own thing. Why is this not a win/win for everybody?

[soul_drifter333]

Maybe Stevie can contribute her cowbell skills to a track and then the project can still can considered a FM album.

[James89]

If you read through the recent threads, you will see there are many, many fans here who would not only go to a FM show without Stevie, but would be absolutely thrilled to see that lineup.

Maybe, but they are the minority and it would be pointless and frankly stupid to debate otherwise.

[SteveMacD]

Maybe, but they are the minority and it would be pointless and frankly stupid to debate otherwise.
Or not.

If you don't want to debate it . . .

[nicepace]

Maybe, but they are the minority and it would be pointless and frankly stupid to debate otherwise.

If that's the case, why is "They should finish the album and do a small tour without her, but then do a big tour with her" winning the poll on the other thread, with almost half the votes cast, and "The should kick her out of the band unless she agrees to participate in a new album" is in second place in the voting?

The folks who are casting those votes are saying they want to see FM go on without her, either in the short term or permanently.

I will reiterate my puzzlement as to why so many Stevie fans seem to have a need to try to convince the rest of us that their opinions are facts.

[FuzzyPlum]

Given the chance, not only would I take Mrs Plum to see them, I might be able to get decent enough tickets at a decent price to take the kids too. It's always been too expensive to properly 'educate' them in the past.

[Macfan4life]

Maybe Stevie can contribute her cowbell skills to a track and then the project can still can considered a FM album.
Yes something like this:
MORE COWBELL!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kx9MdYYx7o

[SteveMacD]

Of course Stevie became the public face of Fleetwood Mac over the past two decades. It's not like Christine wasn't retired or semi-retired for nearly two and a half decades. Aside from a short tour for The Dance, Christine didn't tour between 1991 and most of 2014.

Meanwhile, Stevie was almost always on the road, doing promotions on various news and talk shows, and constantly doing whatever it would take to get her name out there. Stevie is the only one who ever seriously pursued a solo career, aligning herself with relevant artists of the day, and was able to establish an identity outside of Fleetwood Mac. But, that identity isn't bigger than Fleetwood Mac.

During the actual heyday, Christine was the dominant force in the band. She had ten of Fleetwood Mac's eighteen top-40 singles. She was the voice of the band. People haven't necessarily forgotten that, hence the huge spike in ticket sales when she came back.


(And, so help me God don't bring up Time. The label knew that Christine wasn't going to tour or promote it and that Mick and Lindsey were working together again in the studio by the time the album was done. Why sink money into promoting that album when the ice appeared to be melting with the Rumours lineup?)

[elle]

there are many, many fans here who would not only go to a FM show without Stevie, but would be absolutely thrilled to see that lineup. Meanwhile Stevie fans should be happy too, because their goddess is out on her own doing her own thing. Why is this not a win/win for everybody?
i know, that continues to be so puzzling to me. it's like people are saying "i'm happy but you can't be". :shrug:

If that's the case, why is "They should finish the album and do a small tour without her, but then do a big tour with her" winning the poll on the other thread, with almost half the votes cast, and "The should kick her out of the band unless she agrees to participate in a new album" is in second place in the voting?

The folks who are casting those votes are saying they want to see FM go on without her, either in the short term or permanently.

I will reiterate my puzzlement as to why so many Stevie fans seem to have a need to try to convince the rest of us that their opinions are facts.
:thumbsup:

[aleuzzi]

Stevie fans get to enjoy her as a solo act. The fivesome are contracted to tour by 2018. So what's the big deal? Part of the reason many of them don't want FM to continue--even for just one album and small tour--is because, deep down they, like possibly Stevie herself, are a little afraid of how well the temporary lineup will be received.

[elle]

Stevie fans get to enjoy her as a solo act. The fivesome are contracted to tour by 2018. So what's the big deal? Part of the reason many of them don't want FM to continue--even for just one album and small tour--is because, deep down they, like possibly Stevie herself, are a little afraid of how well the temporary lineup will be received.

someone mentioned in one of these threads a parallel to the Journey without Steve Perry. while not necessarily right comparison, it can be as good as any. apparently many years in without Steve Perry, they are still selling arenas.

[SteveMacD]

Ultimately, I don't get the logic that they shouldn't do a Fleetwood Mac album without Stevie Nicks because it won't sell very well. Hell, a Stevie Nicks album WITH Stevie Nicks doesn't sell very well anymore. Sales aren't what's motivating them. Lindsey and Christine feel inspired to make new music, and Mick and John have been along for the ride.