Let's argue about Fleetwood Mac

[jbrownsjr]

Today, I need a distraction.

Please someone argue with me about Stevie, Lindsey, Christine...

shippers? tell me they're still together..
Bluedenim? tell me Lindsey ruined this band with overdubs.!

I need something.. anyone?

[SisterNightroad]

Don't we already always just argue here?
However fine, I think that Lindsey is secretly much more of a prima donna than we all think.
I mean, don't misunderstand me, I love him but just think about all those unnecessarily big words that he uses in his speeches.

[jbrownsjr]

Don't we already always just argue here?
However fine, I think that Lindsey is secretly much more of a prima donna than we all think.
I mean, don't misunderstand me, I love him but just think about all those unnecessarily big words that he uses in his speeches.

How dare you!!?? He's a genius and when he's with Christine his genius becomes even better.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

God that felt good... thank you Sisternightroad

[HomerMcvie]

How dare you!!?? He's a genius and when he's with Christine his genius becomes even better.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

God that felt good... thank you Sisternightroad

I might grant you "musical genius", but not academic genius. He carefully prepares his "big words" speeches, and repeats them over and over...

The struggle must be real.:lol:

[dreamsunwind]

I think he's pretty smart. Back on his old blog, Richard Dashut said how Lindsey was really good at picking up on things in advance and figuring stuff out.

He does rehash all his speeches all the time lol.

I'm not like a shipper in the sense that I think they're still in love or anything like that, like they're dunzo for sure and probably still can get pretty grumpy with each other every now and then, but I love their story, dysfunctional as it is.

But I feel you. Everything feels kind of low right now :( My campus is not a happy place at the moment.

[HomerMcvie]

How could anyone still be a shipper? They f*cking HATE each other(or at least Stevie hates him). There's no new album because she refuses to be stuck in the studio with him.

Their relationship ended FORTY F**KING YEARS AGO.

And they still milk that (album) relationship, because....hmm...lessee....they make millions and millions of dollars.....because lemmings eat it up.

[jbrownsjr]

How could anyone still be a shipper? They f*cking HATE each other(or at least Stevie hates him). There's no new album because she refuses to be stuck in the studio with him.

Their relationship ended FORTY F**KING YEARS AGO.

And they still milk that (album) relationship, because....hmm...lessee....they make millions and millions of dollars.....because lemmings eat it up.

How dare you??!!!

They still write lyrics about each other. He was on Solder's Angel and she praised how great it was to have him in the studio (while she was the boss). Plus, there are so many quotes about how things are better than ever. What's wrong with you???
They kiss on hug on stage!!! How can you say this?

[jbrownsjr]

I think he's pretty smart. Back on his old blog, Richard Dashut said how Lindsey was really good at picking up on things in advance and figuring stuff out.

He does rehash all his speeches all the time lol.

I'm not like a shipper in the sense that I think they're still in love or anything like that, like they're dunzo for sure and probably still can get pretty grumpy with each other every now and then, but I love their story, dysfunctional as it is.

But I feel you. Everything feels kind of low right now :( My campus is not a happy place at the moment.

A friend of mine lives in midtown Manhattan and said you could hear a pin drop.

[sue]

Today, I need a distraction.

Please someone argue with me about Stevie, Lindsey, Christine...

shippers? tell me they're still together..
Bluedenim? tell me Lindsey ruined this band with overdubs.!

I need something.. anyone?

On Radio 2 UK at the moment Simon Mayo is playing "Always look on the bright side of life"...by Eric Idle...
Also, take heart your pain is only for 4 years, here in UK ours is....well who knows.

[dreamsunwind]

A friend of mine lives in midtown Manhattan and said you could hear a pin drop.

Yeah, my sister goes to school there and she told me how the entire campus was basically just dead silent all of last night. So sad.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah, my sister goes to school there and she told me how the entire campus was basically just dead silent all of last night. So sad.

But we are here to argue FMAC!! Give me your dirty complaints!!

[Macfan4life]

Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow :)


Ok lets argue... best or worst Christine line? Was it good or bad to let Lindsey take the first verse?

[dreamsunwind]

But we are here to argue FMAC!! Give me your dirty complaints!!

:lol:
My only somewhat controversial opinion is that I think Stevie somewhat lost interest in FM after Bella Donna came out. Except for Gypsy, all her songs in my opinion were so pale in comparison to her stuff from the 1975 album to Tusk. And I don't really like her solo work except for a few songs off Bella Donna and two or three off Wild Heart, I think it's far less superior. I know there's probably a lot of people who disagree with this so argue away.

[dreamsunwind]

Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow :)


Ok lets argue... best or worst Christine line? Was it good or bad to let Lindsey take the first verse?

OOOH actually here's where i can argue. never make me cry is my favorite christine song, and i feel like no one agrees. to me it's better than songbird or little lies or even everywhere.

[SisterNightroad]

I think the white album is superior to Tusk. Bomb Dropped.

[dreamsunwind]

I think the white album is superior to Tusk. Bomb Dropped.

omg nooooooooooooo
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
tusk is one of my favorite albums of anything
i do love the white album tho
all their albums from 1975 to 1979 are pretty amazing i think it's remarkable they had such an amazing streak

[jbrownsjr]

I think the white album is superior to Tusk. Bomb Dropped.

duh!!! hahahah

[jbrownsjr]

OOOH actually here's where i can argue. never make me cry is my favorite christine song, and i feel like no one agrees. to me it's better than songbird or little lies or even everywhere.

Songbird is my fav... but I love Never Make Me Cry.. esp the piano version..

[jbrownsjr]

Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow :)


Ok lets argue... best or worst Christine line? Was it good or bad to let Lindsey take the first verse?

It was good to let Lindsey sing first verse. I loved that they switched lines, too.. I wish they'd done it live..

Don't Stop (LB)
thinking about tomorrow (CM)

[dreamsunwind]

I think if it wasn't for the fact that she's Stevie Nicks, she wouldn't be able to sell any albums or tickets with her current voice. I don't want to sound mean but sometimes I find it hard to listen to now :/

You could say the same for Lindsey since he's lost practically all his range but he still kills at guitar.

I also think the real reason she won't get in the studio is because she's traumatized from Say You Will. She really didn't like ANYTHING having to do with that album/the process of making it.

[louielouie2000]

I think if it wasn't for the fact that she's Stevie Nicks, she wouldn't be able to sell any albums or tickets with her current voice. I don't want to sound mean but sometimes I find it hard to listen to now :/

I also think the real reason she won't get in the studio is because she's traumatized from Say You Will. She really didn't like ANYTHING having to do with that album/the process of making it.

Ive often thought the same thing about Stevie's voice. Not only has she lost much of her range, but she's lost pretty much all of her vocal flexibility and beautiful, warm tone. Her voice used to be so buttery and strong; it sounds so thin & strained now. At least she has mostly migrated away from the flatness she exhibited so heavily during the first 10 or so years of this century. I blame her flat, shrieking, belting vocals on that awful coach who "saved" her voice. She still has her moments, but her voice is mostly gone now. I remember thinking how terrible she sounded during the Street Angel tour, but compare those shows to modern Stevie and it's shocking how good she was then compared to now.

The whole negativity that Stevie has harped on for a decade regarding SYW just baffles me to death. The Destiny Rules doc shows nothing but Lindsey catering to Stevie, and being extraordinarily supportive and patient with her. Yes, they had their one little tiff, but even Stevie admitted the next day that she was over it. So when I hear Stevie harp on how awful SYW was, I just groan. I suspect she's projecting her own inadequacies on Lindsey.

[SisterNightroad]

I think that John and Mick are ugly.
Charming but ugly.
They're what I like to call "handsome ugly".

[sue]

I think that John and Mick are ugly.
Charming but ugly.
They're what I like to call "handsome ugly".

I think Mick has got more handsome as he's got older......he is almost(almost) fanciable these days.

[aleuzzi]

Today, I need a distraction.

Please someone argue with me about Stevie, Lindsey, Christine...

shippers? tell me they're still together..
Bluedenim? tell me Lindsey ruined this band with overdubs.!

I need something.. anyone?

I wish I could give you something/anything, but I'm still too numb about yesterday/this morning.

[SisterNightroad]

I think Mick has got more handsome as he's got older......he is almost(almost) fanciable these days.
But he looks like a mix of Santa Claus, Gandalf and Dumbledore?! And maybe also that other guy from The Lord of the Rings.
Maybe I could call him cute.

[louielouie2000]

I think that John and Mick are ugly.
Charming but ugly.
They're what I like to call "handsome ugly".

A lot of people used to swoon over Lindsey, but I've never found him remotely attractive, either. Intellectually interesting? Yes.

When I was a kid I used to think Christine was transgender. She looked especially masculine to me in the Rumours album photos. She certainly has aged better than anyone in the band, though. She just radiates inward and outward beauty these days, so her comparatively plain younger looks have certainly allowed her to get the last laugh.

I still believe there might be truth to the ever so infamous Stevie rumors about her keeping her ruptured breast implants in a freezer; and her bumping Coke anally. The woman was so thoroughly strung out in both time periods (on top of being inherently kooky) that it's not a stretch to believe either.

I also believe the reports of Lindsey's domestic violence to be rooted in truth. However, I think he's wholly divorced from that angry, insecure young man now.

[dreamsunwind]

Ive often thought the same thing about Stevie's voice. Not only has she lost much of her range, but she's lost pretty much all of her vocal flexibility and beautiful, warm tone. Her voice used to be so buttery and strong; it sounds so thin & strained now. At least she has mostly migrated away from the flatness she exhibited so heavily during the first 10 or so years of this century. I blame her flat, shrieking, belting vocals on that awful coach who "saved" her voice. She still has her moments, but her voice is mostly gone now. I remember thinking how terrible she sounded during the Street Angel tour, but compare those shows to modern Stevie and it's shocking how good she was then compared to now.

The whole negativity that Stevie has harped on for a decade regarding SYW just baffles me to death. The Destiny Rules doc shows nothing but Lindsey catering to Stevie, and being extraordinarily supportive and patient with her. Yes, they had their one little tiff, but even Stevie admitted the next day that she was over it. So when I hear Stevie harp on how awful SYW was, I just groan. I suspect she's projecting her own inadequacies on Lindsey.


I think with SYW, it might not have necessarily been entirely Lindsey himself but more of like, the direction he was going in/his process. I don't think she liked how the songs turned out so she doesn't trust him to produce for her anymore, even though with the exception of two, I think her songs on it are actually great. And she probably gets tired of his obsessive perfectionism. Also I feel she, probably more her than him, has more sensitivity issues with things, like things that wouldn't necessarily bother other people bother her-- the annoying Bob Dylan thing being a good example. I don't think there was anything wrong with what he said but she kept bringing it up all the time, when it was in the IYD doc, I cringed.

Like after he left the band, she was ****-talking him 24/7 and said how he never really wanted to be close to her after they split up and all this other stuff. Lindsey even said in his USC thing a while back how for him to deal with their issues, the way was to keep interaction to a minimum. So to me it sounds like, instead of screaming at each other 24/7, it was like they would (mostly) argue over songs in the studio, then go on tour and then go home. If she was so unhappy then she should've been happy when he left but she was still constantly dragging him through the mud in all these interviews, like nothing could've pleased her.
And read an interview with her when she said how he saw her performance of Lady on Jimmy Fallon and told her he thought it was beautiful and she still sounded annoyed, like she wanted more. I don't want to sound like I'm judging a situation I don't know, but I feel Stevie just expects him to be like her bff, congratulate everything she does, cater to her, be all loving and happy dappy, do whatever she wants etc. And he obviously doesn't so then that's how they still have that battle. Not like he's a saint, no doubt he's had moments especially in the past where he could be mean and definitely was sarcastic to her, but now I think she just expects too much.

Or I could be totally wrong I don't know it's just my two cents.

[dreamsunwind]

I think that John and Mick are ugly.
Charming but ugly.
They're what I like to call "handsome ugly".

I don't think John is ugly. In the Rumours backstage footage I thought he was pretty good looking. John has this 'too cool to care' atmosphere around him that I find very attractive.
I do think Mick is basically ugly, but he has charm.
Lindsey was so beautiful.... I can't watch any of those old videos or anything without getting so distracted by it.

[HomerMcvie]

I think if it wasn't for the fact that she's Stevie Nicks, she wouldn't be able to sell any albums or tickets with her current voice. I don't want to sound mean but sometimes I find it hard to listen to now :/

You could say the same for Lindsey since he's lost practically all his range but he still kills at guitar.

I also think the real reason she won't get in the studio is because she's traumatized from Say You Will. She really didn't like ANYTHING having to do with that album/the process of making it.

I agree completely. Friends of mine posted video from Nashville a couple of nights ago. While the band sounded great, SHE WAS JUST A DRONE, with the backup singers doing ALL the vocal work.

And yeah, poor Lindsey is in the same boat....

[HomerMcvie]

I don't think John is ugly. In the Rumours backstage footage I thought he was pretty good looking. John has this 'too cool to care' atmosphere around him that I find very attractive.
I do think Mick is basically ugly, but he has charm.
Lindsey was so beautiful.... I can't watch any of those old videos or anything without getting so distracted by it.

As a kid(I mean me), I thought John was ugly. But looking back now, I think he looked fine.

Someone once told me that Mick was kind of dirty, and smelled. There's nothing uglier than odor, at least to me.

[dreamsunwind]

As a kid, I thought John was ugly. But looking back now, I think he looked fine.

Someone once told me that Mick was kind of dirty, and smelled. There's nothing uglier than odor, at least to me.

In older pictures and videos and things Mick always looks dirty to me. Like his beard looks it could have had fleas or something. Lindsey had the big hair but he looked clean. But I think Mick in general is just unattractive, not to sound mean but even if he was shower-fresh I wouldn't be attracted to him.

[seekerj]

Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow :)


Ok lets argue... best or worst Christine line? Was it good or bad to let Lindsey take the first verse?

Jeez, it would take me years to figure out what her WORST line is. There's just so many to choose from!

[jbrownsjr]

Jeez, it would take me years to figure out what her WORST line is. There's just so many to choose from!

a bridge will bring us back together... uhhhh i hate that...

[Macfanforever]

No offense to anybody here. This reminds me of working at those warehouse jobs over the years.There is always somebody that agree or disagree on something.The same goes for those holiday dinner debates which will be coming up in weeks.

At this minute I have nothing big to argue about with FM and it members but the only thing that I'm pissed off over is about their and Stevie tour scheduling sucks.What the hell happen to summer touring.On other stuff.Do we really have any true evidence on whats really going on with this new album .I'm not counting it out yet.By now we should know that FM projects move very sloooooooow.When the time comes . Somebody will whisper into Stevie's ear and tell her to go to the studio.I think she will go. I dont believe in the main stream press in what they are printing on anything.They are FOS .Especially in the last year.

[jbrownsjr]

No offense to anybody here. This reminds me of working at those warehouse jobs over the years.There is always somebody that agree or disagree on something.The same goes for those holiday dinner debates which will be coming up in weeks.

At this minute I have nothing big to argue about with FM and it members but the only thing that I'm pissed off over is about their and Stevie tour scheduling sucks.What the hell happen to summer touring.On other stuff.Do we really have any true evidence on whats really going on with this new album .I'm not counting it out yet.By now we should know that FM projects move very sloooooooow.When the time comes . Somebody will whisper into Stevie's ear and tell her to go to the studio.I think she will go. I dont believe in the main stream press in what they are printing on anything.They are FOS .Especially in the last year.

You did your job... I just needed a distraction.

[Angel75]

I still believe there might be truth to the ever so infamous Stevie rumors about her keeping her ruptured breast implants in a freezer; and her bumping Coke anally. The woman was so thoroughly strung out in both time periods (on top of being inherently kooky) that it's not a stretch to believe either.

I also believe the reports of Lindsey's domestic violence to be rooted in truth. However, I think he's wholly divorced from that angry, insecure young man now.

I totally agree despite loving them both.
But I haven't heard the implants freezer story...tell me more....

[iamnotafraid]

Please someone argue with me about Stevie, Lindsey, Christine...




Stevie released two great solo albums.
Lindsey released one great solo album.
Christine has never released a great solo album.

[HomerMcvie]

a bridge will bring us back together... uhhhh i hate that...

My walls are flaming. Good lort, get that old lady a fire extinguisher, or at least some Preparation H.

[HomerMcvie]

Stevie released two great solo albums.
Lindsey released one great solo album.
Christine has never released a great solo album.

Agreed on Stevie, as long as you mean the first two.

Agreed on Lindsey, but I'm sure you don't mean the first one(my favorite by far, Law and Order).

I disagree completely. I love 1984 and ITM. I think 1984 is just a slight notch above ITM.

[lennonfan]

Let's be real here: the entire band was sexy circa 1982.:)

re: the original post, I think Stevie needs to be as distracted as you. Pity she has to do shows when I'm more than willing to bet she's upset.

[SisterNightroad]

Stevie released two great solo albums.
Lindsey released one great solo album.
Christine has never released a great solo album.
http://i.imgur.com/i3I3bgF.gif

[On Ice]

This kind of reminds me of our unpopular opinions thread a while back, it's fun to reflect on our favourite band and their many great points and equally glaring flaws. But who among us isn't flawed, we're just not all cag illionaires like we've made these five folks. :lol:

Here's mine:
Fleetwood Mac squandered Stevie's backlog of great material and her era defining voice, by limiting her to 3 songs per album in the early days and should have shortened the tours and did a 75, 76, and 77 album before venturing off into Tusk land. The long gruelling tours ruined that precious instrument. That is to say, Rumours in 76 followed by another album in the same vein before Tusk, with more Nicks songs and more of her stellar vocals of the period.

The band, and fans alike, neglect the real heros of the band, namely Green, Kirwan and Welch, that talent pool rivals the best in the business, including the Beatles, Zep and Clapton! Buckingham, Nicks and McVie pale in comparison,although I love them to death.

Stevie threw her solo success into the Mac's faces and the Mac's jealous response forever changed the dynamic and prevented them from ever making another great album, see Mirage, although great moments, it suffered because of this. Both sides are to blame, even to this day. The new album will not be great as a result, and no other album ever came close.

That's a start....

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie released two great solo albums.
Lindsey released one great solo album.
Christine has never released a great solo album.

Lindsey released 2 great solo albums
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released 3 great solo albums

[aleuzzi]

Lindsey released 2 great solo albums
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released 3 great solo albums

I'm now welcoming distractions so here goes:

Lindsey has released two great solo albums and a number of interesting, but uneven ones.

Stevie has released three very good solo albums that I can't listen to in large doses.

Christine has released three very good albums that I can listen to in large doses.

[jbrownsjr]

I'm now welcoming distractions so here goes:

Lindsey has released two great solo albums and a number of interesting, but uneven ones.

Stevie has released three very good solo albums that I can't listen to in large doses.

Christine has released three very good albums that I can listen to in large doses.

I can live with that. I like OSOTM.. most people don't

[FuzzyPlum]

I've never really liked the name Fleetwood Mac. It sounds like a long distance bus company or something. You could have come up with something a bit better Pete.

[SisterNightroad]

I like Stevie's Say you will voice.
Don't love it, but like it.

[Macfanforever]

I've never really liked the name Fleetwood Mac. It sounds like a long distance bus company or something. You could have come up with something a bit better Pete.


Hahahaaha.Bus company or a trucking firm. Buckingham/Nicks reminds me of an attorneys firm or a accountants firm and a insurance agent and lastly a real estate agency .

[Macfanforever]

The holiday season is upon us. No holiday albums.I know some of you will be saying they have enough problems making a regular albums which I do agree . Almost everyone's brothers or sisters released a Christmas album in the past except FM.We do have some solo efforts from its members releasing Christmas music in the past.

I would love to hear Mick doing the Little Drummer Boy .

[aleuzzi]

I can live with that. I like OSOTM.. most people don't

Yeah--I mean, to me, IN THE MEANTIME is a great record, but in truth I know its limitations and recognize it for the very good record it is. Something like Lindsey's OUT OF THE CRADLE is on an entirely different level, to my way of thinking. It's a forgotten classic of the 90s.

Obviously Stevie's first two albums are huge, but I can't listen to them back-to-back or in repeated sittings. I know it's damn good, but I can't get into it the way I did when I was 12 and 13.

[nicepace]

That John and Christine! They are soooo boring as an ex-couple. There's nothing to gossip about! Don't they know they could sell more records if they argued and fought all the time? Sheesh, all they do is get along, like they were friends or something.

[HomerMcvie]

That John and Christine! They are soooo boring as an ex-couple. There's nothing to gossip about! Don't they know they could sell more records if they argued and fought all the time? Sheesh, all they do is get along, like they were friends or something.

The NERVE of them, acting like reasonable people. Not drawing out some 40yo breakup, pretending on stage to still be in love, all for the sake of a few dolts who lap it up! The nerve!!!

:lol:

[iamnotafraid]

1. Agreed on Stevie, as long as you mean the first two.

2. Agreed on Lindsey, but I'm sure you don't mean the first one(my favorite by far, Law and Order).

3. I disagree completely. I love 1984 and ITM. I think 1984 is just a slight notch above ITM.

1. Yep.

2. Probably OOTC for me. Though I like them all.

3. As much as I love Christine's voice, I just don't like her solo albums.

[iamnotafraid]

Lindsey released 1 great solo album.
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released "0" great solo albums

Note my corrections above.

[nicolasjz]

Am I the only one who hates Don't Stop? This song makes me cringe so much. It's the only song off Rumours I skip.

[aleuzzi]

Lindsey should only have contributed four songs to Mirage and four to Tango, leaving room for another Christine or Stevie track on the former and another Christine track on the latter.

[Danielle]

Am I the only one who hates Don't Stop? This song makes me cringe so much. It's the only song off Rumours I skip.
No, I hate it too.

[mitzo]

Lindsey is a brilliant producer of the girls' material. But Lord Jesus, 90% of his own songs suck on an epic scale.

[lennonfan]

Am I the only one who hates Don't Stop? This song makes me cringe so much. It's the only song off Rumours I skip.

I was shocked back in the day when they released it as a single. I thought it was the weakest track on the lp!

[jbrownsjr]

Note my corrections above.

Lindsey released 2 great solo album.
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released 3 great solo albums

I fixed it for you.

[HomerMcvie]

Lindsey released 2 great solo album.
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released 3 great solo albums

I fixed it for you.

I was waiting for you to arrive!!!

[Neal]

Lindsey should only have contributed four songs to Mirage and four to Tango, leaving room for another Christine or Stevie track on the former and another Christine track on the latter.

Totally agree.

They should've ditched the embarrassment that was "Empire State" for "Smile At You" on Mirage, and on Tango should've replaced "Family Man" with (don't kill me!) the quirky yet catchy "Ricky".

[HomerMcvie]

Totally agree.

They should've ditched the embarrassment that was "Empire State" for "Smile At You" on Mirage, and on Tango should've replaced "Family Man" with (don't kill me!) the quirky yet catchy "Ricky".

Oh no. Ricky is crappy. It's okay as a B side, but it's not an album worthy track. Most definitely filler!

[Dr.Brown]

Oh no. Ricky is crappy. It's okay as a B side, but it's not an album worthy track. Most definitely filler!

I love Ricky! It's definitely "out there" - kind of like the bastard child of Tusk and Brown Eyes. I would have put Down Endless Street on the album as well. These would have replaced When I See You Again and Welcome to the Room Sara. No offense to Stevie fans, but in my opinion these are two of her weakest contributions ever to a Mac album.

[dreamsunwind]

I love Ricky! It's definitely "out there" - kind of like the bastard child of Tusk and Brown Eyes. I would have put Down Endless Street on the album as well. These would have replaced When I See You Again and Welcome to the Room Sara. No offense to Stevie fans, but in my opinion these are two of her weakest contributions ever to a Mac album.

Is Ricky supposed to be a reference to Richard Dashut?

[Dr.Brown]

Is Ricky supposed to be a reference to Richard Dashut?

Most likely, but I've never read anything to confirm this.

[elle]

Today, I need a distraction.

Please someone argue with me about Stevie, Lindsey, Christine...

shippers? tell me they're still together..
Bluedenim? tell me Lindsey ruined this band with overdubs.!

I need something.. anyone?

i love you!

[jbrownsjr]

i love you!

That's because when I met Prince for 5 minutes. I decided that we were life long friends and I will continue to act like we were lovers just like Lindsey and I were until the end of time just to irritate you! (talk about a run on sentence) lol

[nicolasjz]

I also hate Hold Me. For me this song confirms all the nasty things that Fleetwood Mac haters say about the band: hyper commercialized saccharine pseudo-rock.

More generally I really cannot connect with either Christine or Lindsey's songs on Mirage. The production is so poppy and blatantly commercialized for FM stations, and the songs just don't have any bite for me.

[nicolasjz]

I love Ricky! It's definitely "out there" - kind of like the bastard child of Tusk and Brown Eyes. I would have put Down Endless Street on the album as well. These would have replaced When I See You Again and Welcome to the Room Sara. No offense to Stevie fans, but in my opinion these are two of her weakest contributions ever to a Mac album.

Very few Stevie fans would disagree with you on that :lol:

[dreamsunwind]

Very few Stevie fans would disagree with you on that :lol:

I like When I See You Again. The lyrics don't really make sense and the "whassamattababy" is kinda grating but I think the music is really beautiful. I'd love to listen to just the music isolated. And Lindsey's part at the end is also beautiful in my opinion.

[bobwelchera]

Totally agree.

They should've ditched the embarrassment that was "Empire State" for "Smile At You" on Mirage, and on Tango should've replaced "Family Man" with (don't kill me!) the quirky yet catchy "Ricky".

Yesss, "Empire State" doesn't belong on Mirage, and I've posted that in numerous threads. ;-) However, "Goodbye Angel" would make more sense on there, though "Smile At You" would be acceptable. I could see "Family Man" being replaced with "Down Endless Street."

As for my own contributions to this, Time is underrated. I said it! "These Strange Times" should have found itself on a B-side, though I believe "Do It All Over Again" would not be a good finishing song. Bekka's songs easily would fit on the country charts of the decade (and even now). "Love Shines" and "Heart of Stone" would've made it even better.

Random thought: the band should've proposed to Christine that they record in England so she wouldn't have to fly during the Say You Will sessions. I am curious what greatness we missed, especially if it never was considered.

[iamnotafraid]

Lindsey released 1 great solo album.
Stevie released 2 great solo albums
Christine released "0" great solo albums

I fixed it for you.


Tag - You're it!

[iamnotafraid]

Random thought: the band should've proposed to Christine that they record in England so she wouldn't have to fly during the Say You Will sessions.

Even better, the Jungle Room in Memphis.

[michelej1]

I think that John and Mick are ugly.
Charming but ugly.
They're what I like to call "handsome ugly".

I think John had his physical charms back in the day. I don't find Mick attractive. But on the Mirage front and back covers, I think they all look good.

And sometimes, when he's not saying gross things, Mick's dulcet vocal tones appeal to me. Michele

[michelej1]

That John and Christine! They are soooo boring as an ex-couple. There's nothing to gossip about! Don't they know they could sell more records if they argued and fought all the time? Sheesh, all they do is get along, like they were friends or something.

Even when they didn't get along, they kept it to themselves. I am sure there are tales they could have told, but they didn't. I can count on one hand how many times they've spoken out against each other. John hasn't at all. Michele

[michelej1]

I also hate Hold Me. For me this song confirms all the nasty things that Fleetwood Mac haters say about the band: hyper commercialized saccharine pseudo-rock.



I would say that Little Lies or, even, Don't Stop exemplify this far more than Hold Me does.

I think Hold Me is sublime.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

Random thought: the band should've proposed to Christine that they record in England so she wouldn't have to fly during the Say You Will sessions. I am curious what greatness we missed, especially if it never was considered.

I believe that she was willing to record with them, but unwilling to tour, and that was a deal breaker.

So we were left with that SYW dog turd lying on the street corner. SYW still smells. I like Time better than SYW!

[HomerMcvie]

I would say that Little Lies or, even, Don't Stop exemplify this far more than Hold Me does.

I think Hold Me is sublime.

Michele

Hold Me has many more fresh production ideas than either one of the other two.

From the extra guitar "plink, plink a plink, plink a plink" on top of the choruses, to the "Ow"(lol - sp) on the 4 count of the second bar of the chorus. Lindsey was working magic on Mirage...

I'll never forget hearing Hold Me live. It was so PUNK, the way they were doing it... Lindsey screaming, "WHY DON'T YOU COME ON AND A".

God, for a time machine.

[bombaysaffires]

Hold Me has many more fresh production ideas than either one of the other two.

From the extra guitar "plink, plink a plink, plink a plink" on top of the choruses, to the "Ow"(lol - sp) on the 4 count of the second bar of the chorus. Lindsey was working magic on Mirage...

I'll never forget hearing Hold Me live. It was so PUNK, the way they were doing it... Lindsey screaming, "WHY DON'T YOU COME ON AND A".

God, for a time machine.

In a review of the album at the time I recall the writer referring to the album as sounding like a music box (not in a bad way) and if you listen to the biggest singles... Hold Me and Gypsy that is definitely the case, due to Lindsey's guitar touches.

[Dr.Brown]

I like When I See You Again. The lyrics don't really make sense and the "whassamattababy" is kinda grating but I think the music is really beautiful. I'd love to listen to just the music isolated. And Lindsey's part at the end is also beautiful in my opinion.

To me, the first part of When I See You Again is both depressing and grating but I think the tone fairly captures where Stevie was at during this time. I agree though that Lindsey's part is indeed beautiful and his outro is sublime. This song can be heartbreaking to listen to at times - so sad. :(

[jbrownsjr]

Tag - You're it!

That looks right.
Lindsey released 11 great solo album.
Stevie released 1 great solo albums
Christine released 5 great solo albums

[aleuzzi]

I love the studio version of Don't Stop. I could listen to it four times in a row. This, apparently, is an unpopular opinion in this thread ;)

[Japhry]

Big Love-I am sick of the acoustic version. Please tell me I'm not the only one who wishes for a return to form to the album full sound version, and FAST-complete with a three part "ah, uh, ah, uh, ah, uh" part at the end!

[HomerMcvie]

Big Love-I am sick of the acoustic version. Please tell me I'm not the only one who wishes for a return to form to the album full sound version, and FAST-complete with a three part "ah, uh, ah, uh, ah, uh" part at the end!

I don't believe the "album version" was ever done live. Unless they did it after Lindsey left the band, and I don't believe they did.

I too am sick to death of the acoustic version, but they'll never drop it. It's Lindsey's showcase for his "million picks a second"(even though half of what you're hearing is delay["echo" in layman's terms]).

[iamnotafraid]

That looks right.
Lindsey released 11 great solo album.
Stevie released 1 great solo albums
Christine released 5 great solo albums
But Taylor Swift is better than them all!

I'm not sure where you came up with that.
But I'm not going to argue with you.

[aleuzzi]

Landslide is both about Hurricane Katrina and, if Hillary won, the latter's struggle to get to the presidency. "I realize that now."

[jbrownsjr]

Landslide is both about Hurricane Katrina and, if Hillary won, the latter's struggle to get to the presidency. "I realize that now."

"Because I knew when I wrote Landslide, that a women would be running for president. Just like I knew that Prince would be my best friend." That's why I write songs, because I know they help these people in every way."


That's how she actually reads to me, sometimes.. lol

[jbrownsjr]

I'm not sure where you came up with that.
But I'm not going to argue with you.

You can't "out" crazy me. :lol:

Still love Rusty, tho.. ;)

[aleuzzi]

"Because I knew when I wrote Landslide, that a women would be running for president. Just like I knew that Prince would be my best friend." That's why I write songs, because I know they help these people in every way."


That's how she actually reads to me, sometimes.. lol

"When I wrote Landslide in 1974, I was writing about all the important events in American culture that would, periodically, over the next few decades, renew public interest in me as an icon. The song is about me. It's about my timelessness."

[iamnotafraid]

You can't "out" crazy me. :lol:

Still love Rusty, tho.. ;)

Don't be so sure!

One thing that all of us can agree on here at the Ledge
is that we all love Rusty.

Now Alec is a different story.

[SisterNightroad]

Don't be so sure!

One thing that all of us can agree on here at the Ledge
is that we all love Rusty.

Now Alec is a different story.
Well, can you blame us?
Compared to Alec, Rusty is totally on a different level:

https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/8/82/Tapped_Out_Rusty_the_Clown_Parade_Balloon.png https://s12.postimg.org/7wccc7hjh/Alec_Baldwin.png

[jbrownsjr]

"When I wrote Landslide in 1974, I was writing about all the important events in American culture that would, periodically, over the next few decades, renew public interest in me as an icon. The song is about me. It's about my timelessness."

When I wrote Landslide, I knew that I would get to bring up 100 different reasons that relate to important events in this country to compare them to. :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

"Because I knew when I wrote Landslide, that a women would be running for president. Just like I knew that Prince would be my best friend." That's why I write songs, because I know they help these people in every way."


That's how she actually reads to me, sometimes.. lol

And people don't understand why I can't stand her.

Because this is how she has always come across to me!:mad:

[jbrownsjr]

And people don't understand why I can't stand her.

Because this is how she has always come across to me!:mad:

She wasn't always like that. I used to love listening to her on Jim Ladd during the Wild Heart days. She was kind of fun and not so pretentious.

[aleuzzi]

She wasn't always like that. I used to love listening to her on Jim Ladd during the Wild Heart days. She was kind of fun and not so pretentious.

Yeah--her Hamburger Helper comment in a 1983 MTV interview had me in stiches. And John McVie once said has the dirtiest laugh of any woman he knows.

Christine once said Stevie has a terrific sense of humor but that she has created a fantasy world for herself. That was back in 1984.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah--her Hamburger Helper comment in a 1983 MTV interview had me in stiches. And John McVie once said has the dirtiest laugh of any woman he knows.

Christine once said Stevie has a terrific sense of humor but that she has created a fantasy world for herself. That was back in 1984.

Christine would call Stevie's posse the silly sisters. It's when she had her little posse follow her around that she became Stevie phase II and III and IV.

When you're surrounded by people always doing things for you, you start to see the world as though you're their God and Savior. It's actually quite natural and I see it with celebs and their assistants out here in BHills all the time. Add drugs and you really get a big Godlike affect.

[HomerMcvie]

She wasn't always like that. I used to love listening to her on Jim Ladd during the Wild Heart days. She was kind of fun and not so pretentious.

I agree that she didn't used to be like that. But WH was 33 years ago!

She's a delusional egomaniac now. I can only "grade" the current, not the former!:lol:

[dreamsunwind]

Christine would call Stevie's posse the silly sisters. It's when she had her little posse follow her around that she became Stevie phase II and III and IV.

When you're surrounded by people always doing things for you, you start to see the world as though you're their God and Savior. It's actually quite natural and I see it with celebs and their assistants out here in BHills all the time. Add drugs and you really get a big Godlike affect.


I've always thought this as well. I remember that Christine interview, it made me sad. She said how in the early days Stevie had her feet on the ground but not anymore.
It reminds me of something that was on Richard Dashut's blog. He got asked how Stevie and Lindsey changed over the time he knew them and he said that Lindsey was always pretty serious and intense, it just got moreso and made him less fun. But he said Stevie changed the most, with her status she had her entourage all the time and she became a lot less accessible. Reminds me also of Ken Caillait's book where he kept talking about how sweet and normal she was 'BACK THEN'.
Robin dying and the drugs probably made it worse.

[Newzchspy]

I've always thought this as well. I remember that Christine interview, it made me sad. She said how in the early days Stevie had her feet on the ground but not anymore.
It reminds me of something that was on Richard Dashut's blog. He got asked how Stevie and Lindsey changed over the time he knew them and he said that Lindsey was always pretty serious and intense, it just got moreso and made him less fun. But he said Stevie changed the most, with her status she had her entourage all the time and she became a lot less accessible. Reminds me also of Ken Caillait's book where he kept talking about how sweet and normal she was 'BACK THEN'.
Robin dying and the drugs probably made it worse.

Fixed that for you: Fame made it worse.

[dreamsunwind]

Fixed that for you: Fame made it worse.

Yeah and I think fame probably affected all of them. But it was only really Stevie who really got lost in la la land for a while and I think that was partly because of her huge star status, coupled with drugs, her 'entourage' were all probably enablers and she didn't really have anyone to drag her out of her fairy world.

This sounds like I'm insulting her which I'm not I do love her, but this is just what I've always thought. I feel like that's why so few of her post-Lindsey boyfriends took her seriously, from Mick to Don to Joe, I don't think any of them looked at her as legitimate relationship material because she'd gotten kind of unrealistic. Even Tom Petty thought she was kind of ridiculous at first.

Or I could just be speculating who knows.

[DauphineMarie]

Well, as someone who studies astrology pretty thoroughly, this is my verdict:

Stevie, the Gemini (an air sign) needs/needed someone to ground her (an earth sign)... That person in the beginning was Robin, the Virgo (an earth sign).

The two people closest to her are/were Sharon (a Cancer) and Lori (a Scorpio), both water signs. Air and water signs are compatible, but create unstable energy as the interaction between the two creates storm-like conditions.

And in Fleetwood Mac..
Mick - Cancer (Water)
Christine - Cancer (Water)
Lindsey - Libra (Air)
John - Sagittarius (Fire)

Again -- zero grounding energy. This also explains just how ridiculous this band can get.. There is nobody grounded enough to hold it together properly.

More miscellaneous friends/lovers.. See a trend here?
Tom Petty - Libra (Air)
Jimmy Iovine - Aries (Fire)
Don Henley - Cancer (Water)
Joe Walsh - Scorpio (Fire)
Sheryl Crow - Aquarius (Air)

The only earth signs I can find/remember that are close to Stevie:
Dave Stewart - Virgo
Rupert Hine - Virgo
Mary Torrey-Devitto - Taurus

SO - All in all, this is why I believe Stevie has gone batty through her advanced stages in life.. She has almost no grounding energy... :angel:

[SisterNightroad]

Well, as someone who studies astrology pretty thoroughly, this is my verdict:

Stevie, the Gemini (an air sign) needs/needed someone to ground her (an earth sign)... That person in the beginning was Robin, the Virgo (an earth sign).

The two people closest to her are/were Sharon (a Cancer) and Lori (a Scorpio), both water signs. Air and water signs are compatible, but create unstable energy as the interaction between the two creates storm-like conditions.

And in Fleetwood Mac..
Mick - Cancer (Water)
Christine - Cancer (Water)
Lindsey - Libra (Air)
John - Sagittarius (Fire)

Again -- zero grounding energy. This also explains just how ridiculous this band can get.. There is nobody grounded enough to hold it together properly.

More miscellaneous friends/lovers.. See a trend here?
Tom Petty - Libra (Air)
Jimmy Iovine - Aries (Fire)
Don Henley - Cancer (Water)
Joe Walsh - Scorpio (Fire)
Sheryl Crow - Aquarius (Air)

The only earth signs I can find/remember that are close to Stevie:
Dave Stewart - Virgo
Rupert Hine - Virgo
Mary Torrey-Devitto - Taurus

SO - All in all, this is why I believe Stevie has gone batty through her advanced stages in life.. She has almost no grounding energy... :angel:
Isn't Scorpio a water sign?

[HomerMcvie]

Oh Moses, smell the roses! :lol:

[dreamsunwind]

Well, as someone who studies astrology pretty thoroughly, this is my verdict:

Stevie, the Gemini (an air sign) needs/needed someone to ground her (an earth sign)... That person in the beginning was Robin, the Virgo (an earth sign).

The two people closest to her are/were Sharon (a Cancer) and Lori (a Scorpio), both water signs. Air and water signs are compatible, but create unstable energy as the interaction between the two creates storm-like conditions.

And in Fleetwood Mac..
Mick - Cancer (Water)
Christine - Cancer (Water)
Lindsey - Libra (Air)
John - Sagittarius (Fire)

Again -- zero grounding energy. This also explains just how ridiculous this band can get.. There is nobody grounded enough to hold it together properly.

More miscellaneous friends/lovers.. See a trend here?
Tom Petty - Libra (Air)
Jimmy Iovine - Aries (Fire)
Don Henley - Cancer (Water)
Joe Walsh - Scorpio (Fire)
Sheryl Crow - Aquarius (Air)

The only earth signs I can find/remember that are close to Stevie:
Dave Stewart - Virgo
Rupert Hine - Virgo
Mary Torrey-Devitto - Taurus

SO - All in all, this is why I believe Stevie has gone batty through her advanced stages in life.. She has almost no grounding energy... :angel:

Hmmmm this is interesting. Astrology fascinates me.

But I don't think someone like Robin grounded Stevie. I think Robin was like any of her friends, she just went along with her. I think someone like Lindsey might have been more like that since he was so different from her or someone like Christine who is more 'earth mother'. But Robin I feel was a best friend but not necessarily a grounding force per say. I don't think Robin was pulling her head out of the clouds when she got kinda crazy rockstar.

Also Dave S is so far from grounding tbh that's why the IYD doc drove me nuts is how she clearly seemed to like him so much because he went along with everyyyyything instead of maybe trying to push her every now and then.

[Macfanforever]

Well, as someone who studies astrology pretty thoroughly, this is my verdict:

Stevie, the Gemini (an air sign) needs/needed someone to ground her (an earth sign)... That person in the beginning was Robin, the Virgo (an earth sign).

The two people closest to her are/were Sharon (a Cancer) and Lori (a Scorpio), both water signs. Air and water signs are compatible, but create unstable energy as the interaction between the two creates storm-like conditions.

And in Fleetwood Mac..
Mick - Cancer (Water)
Christine - Cancer (Water)
Lindsey - Libra (Air)
John - Sagittarius (Fire)

Again -- zero grounding energy. This also explains just how ridiculous this band can get.. There is nobody grounded enough to hold it together properly.

More miscellaneous friends/lovers.. See a trend here?
Tom Petty - Libra (Air)
Jimmy Iovine - Aries (Fire)
Don Henley - Cancer (Water)
Joe Walsh - Scorpio (Fire)
Sheryl Crow - Aquarius (Air)

The only earth signs I can find/remember that are close to Stevie:
Dave Stewart - Virgo
Rupert Hine - Virgo
Mary Torrey-Devitto - Taurus

SO - All in all, this is why I believe Stevie has gone batty through her advanced stages in life.. She has almost no grounding energy... :angel:

Wow.Thanks for sharing.I'm in the same boat as Jimmy I is since I'm an Aries .

[DauphineMarie]

Isn't Scorpio a water sign?

Oh god yes, it is, lol. Thank you.

She loves her water signs...

[iamnotafraid]

Well, can you blame us?
Compared to Alec, Rusty is totally on a different level:

https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/8/82/Tapped_Out_Rusty_the_Clown_Parade_Balloon.png https://s12.postimg.org/7wccc7hjh/Alec_Baldwin.png


Of course I can't blame anyone here.

Rusty has been such a big part of Fleetwood
Mac's success for so long that he's practically
the 6th member.

Right color shirt for Alec. He'd be as popular
as his friend if it weren't for some of his very
controversial views and fashion statements.

I think we all know where John's Halloween
costume came from all those years ago.

[SisterNightroad]

Oh god yes, it is, lol. Thank you.

She loves her water signs...
I just know because I'm a Scorpio myself.
Yes I noticed a trend there.

[Richard B]

Well, as someone who studies astrology pretty thoroughly, this is my verdict:

Stevie, the Gemini (an air sign) needs/needed someone to ground her (an earth sign)... That person in the beginning was Robin, the Virgo (an earth sign).



Interestingly, Stevie is a Capricorn moon which to me, explains quite a bit, especially her career and money drive. But as flighty as Gemini's can be, I do see the self grounding of her Capricorn moon come into play. As you know, the moon represents emotions and mood...your unconscious self.

[jbrownsjr]

Interestingly, Stevie is a Capricorn moon which to me, explains quite a bit, especially her career and money drive. But as flighty as Gemini's can be, I do see the self grounding of her Capricorn moon come into play. As you know, the moon represents emotions and mood...your unconscious self.

Awesome post. I did not know that about the moon.

[SisterNightroad]

Interestingly, Stevie is a Capricorn moon which to me, explains quite a bit, especially her career and money drive. But as flighty as Gemini's can be, I do see the self grounding of her Capricorn moon come into play. As you know, the moon represents emotions and mood...your unconscious self.
You and DauphineMarie should hold an astrology thread, I don't exactly believe in it but it's culturally interesting nonetheless.

[jbrownsjr]

You and DauphineMarie should hold an astrology thread, I don't exactly believe in it but it's culturally interesting nonetheless.

Same here. But, some of it is very interesting.

[SisterNightroad]

Same here. But, some of it is very interesting.
Yes, who doesn't feel a little bit of silly pleasure when readin their horoscope in the paper at morning?

[HomerMcvie]

Yes, who doesn't feel a little bit of silly pleasure when readin their horoscope in the paper at morning?

:wavey:

Me. :lol:

I believe in science and facts, not in fantasies and fairy tales.

I make a terrible Chiffonhead. And a great atheist!:cool:

[olive]

after last nights show I hope she quits and goes and record a new record in 12 weeks. the put together a new show based on the reaction to old and unheard songs she is getting and let the dinosaurs take a year to create a masterpiece and do their thing

[SisterNightroad]

:wavey:

Me. :lol:

I believe in science and facts, not in fantasies and fairy tales.

I make a terrible Chiffonhead. And a great atheist!:cool:
Well, I think 90% of the people who read horoscope don't believe it...

[HomerMcvie]

Well, I think 90% of the people who read horoscope don't believe it...

Yet I'll bet 90% of Chiffonheads do! :angel:

[jbrownsjr]

after last nights show I hope she quits and goes and record a new record in 12 weeks. the put together a new show based on the reaction to old and unheard songs she is getting and let the dinosaurs take a year to create a masterpiece and do their thing

Is the show bad? I've been seeing great reviews.

[bobwelchera]

I would say that Little Lies or, even, Don't Stop exemplify this far more than Hold Me does.

I think Hold Me is sublime.

Michele

I think "Don't Stop", because it's such a happy, positive song, leads folks to thinking negative things about Fleetwood Mac. I've had this conversation with an old bandmate of mine, and I tend to think people hate happy, positive songs. Music about pain and sadness, or that sounds like it's about pain and sadness, tends to be more attractive to folks because it's more cathartic. Like any classic or modern-day pop song, it's played over and over and over and over. When I hear it come on the radio, I certainly listen to it since it's from my favorite band and all, but it's not my favorite song, and that probably is a combination of its happiness and overexposure, on top of other songs just being better.

As for "Hold Me," that's a damn great pop tune, and there's nothing wrong with that. I love the blending of Christine and Lindsey's voices, and the chorus in the final version, despite it being much simpler, is much better than the demo's chorus.

[michelej1]

. I've had this conversation with an old bandmate of mine, and I tend to think people hate happy, positive songs.

I would say that's true of myself. Very rarely do I like a happy song. I mean, I like Don't Stop well enough.

But I hate a song like Joy to the World or I Just Called to Say I Love You, or Reach Out and Touch Somebody's Hand. The last thing in the world I want to sing about is bonding with my fellow man or telling someone You Light Up My Life.


The best thing about SYLM for me is that when he says it he's LYING. I like her acknowledgment of the deception. If he wooed her until the sun came up and meant it, it wouldn't hit me in my sweet spot.

Michele

[Nathan]

The best thing about SYLM for me is that when he says it he's LYING. I like her acknowledgment of the deception. If he wooed her until the sun came up and meant it, it wouldn't hit me in my sweet spot.

Michele

Nice analysis, I agree! I think the verses support it too.