Best Era Of Fleetwood Mac

[Fleetwood Jack]

So, I thought of an interesting question. What do you think is the best all around time period for Fleetwood Mac. Now, for this question to be answered you have to consider the following (to quote that blasted Science Guy, for the era that you chose.

-Did it have (in your opinion the best album), it has to have no filler or next to no filler.
-Do you think that's when they gave their best live performances, (if any).
-Were the B-Sides/Outtakes good?
-This one is just kind of a side note. Did it have their best interviews and promotional/music videos.
-Do you like the solo albums that were released from around that time. Like how Go Insane, Rock-A-Little, and Christine McVie are almost a part of the Tango In The Night era.

My vote might have to be the Mirage Era. Although, (controversial opinion) Tango In The Night is my favorite album from that line-up, I think the live performances from then are rather lacking. I think Mirage was their peak for live performance, just watch the Mirage Tour video! I love the three music videos and the interviews that they gave. I also think that after hearing the reissue it has some of their finest outtakes.

I'm really curious to hear what you guys and gals have to say.

[HomerMcvie]

Mystery To Me,1973. The best album they ever made!

[Macfan4life]

I love 1974. Heros are hard to find is an amazing album. Christine really shines with her songs and you get a premonition of what a huge hit maker she was to become. I love the harmonizing between Bob and Christine.
I also love 1982. Its a quick blip and short tour but its like eating one potato chip. I just cant get enough. It was the end of an era for the band. Everyone was at their peak beauty and it was the last time before drugs started to impact performances (Stevie). It also was the early video era and the band made 2 of the best videos ever so you can imagine how ground breaking they were in 1982. No backup singers or fancy sets. It was basic arena rock which is when they are at their best IMHO.

[SisterNightroad]

Probably 1975-6 for me.
I've always thought that the white album is almost on a par with Rumours, and almost all of the best performances of my favourite songs are from this tour: Green Manalishi with Stevie's wails, I'm so afraid with Stevie still on the chorus, Hypnotized with Stevie and Lindsey's harmonies and, most of all, those unrivalled Rhiannon performances.
Unfortunately there aren't many outtakes leaked, beside a very sweet version of Warm Ways from the tour rehearsals that makes me wish for more.
Interviews and music videos were still pretty much secondary, and solo careers were still just a distant thought.
The live video performances we have from that time are very good, the Largo show and the Capitol Centre one, but the Santa Barbara show that was partly filmed for the Rosebud documentary is from this period too and that seems peerless; I really would like to see more footage from that concert.

[olive]

i wish there would have been more with Rick and Billy

[AlexD]

I always thought that the Say You Will Era could've been the best with Christine, but everyone hates that album haha

[louielouie2000]

Mystery To Me, 1973. The best album they ever made!

I'm glad someone else thinks this was a high point in Mac history. Though I'd widen it to 1973-1974 to include 3 albums: Penguin, Mystery To Me, and Heroes Are Hard To Find. MTM definitely was the standout album of the era, and really, one of the top 5 albums the band ever released. I love Penguin & Heroes too. These 3 albums represent when Bob Welch really came into his own. There's just something about him I've never been able to pinpoint. He's got the mysticism of Stevie Nicks, the storytelling of Peter Green, the pop chops of Christine McVie, and eccentric sonic sensibilities of Lindsey Buckingham. Bob's story is such a tragedy, too. He left Fleetwood Mac just as he was hitting his stride, he wasn't included in the RRHOF, and his death was just heartbreaking. It really bothers me his FM albums aren't available on streaming mediums like Spotify, either. This pretty much guarantees future generations will never hear Bob's FM music.

I also love 1979-1980 in an entirely different way. Tusk is my all time favorite album by any band. Stevie Nicks really flexed her muscles during Tusk, stepped out of the shadows, and became a star. The tour was this giant monster, too. I love the snapshot in time that the Live album is. When I think of the definitive era of Fleetwood Mac, this is it.

[Macfanforever]

1970's and 80's was my favorite.

[louielouie2000]

I always thought that the Say You Will Era could've been the best with Christine, but everyone hates that album haha

If Christine were present, Say You Will would have been a 21st century Tusk. The album really would have benefitted from Christine's presence in multiple ways- she would have bridged the chasm in between Stevie's and Lindsey's songs, and her presence would have meant cutting out some of the dead wood present on the album. As it stands, SYW is still the most artistically pure thing the band has done since Tango. Yeah, it's flawed- but it's honest, and a genuine attempt at forward movement without being trapped by the past.

[bwboy]

I don't know if it's just because they only did one album, but I would have loved one more album with the Behind the Mask lineup. They didn't get much of a chance to show all their stuff, but As Long As You Follow, No Questions Asked, Save Me, Skies the Limit, and In the Back of My Mind all delivered and showed there was still plenty of life in the Mac.

[sue]

I love the white Album and Rumours era....but, my favourite is
the Peter Green era of Fleetwood Mac, especially
"Oh Well", "Man of the World" and "Albatross"...they
have that late 60's bluesy hippie feel about them, very atmospheric.

[sorcerer999]

The "Bare Trees" era holds an extremely special place in my heart. I'm a huge Danny Kirwan fan. It's a shame that his demons took over both his music and his life. But songs like "Danny's Chant" and "Sunny Side Of Heaven" are masterpieces - Snapshots of a band still valid and creative despite losing Green and Spencer, but veering off in a more fascinating and mystical direction. However, his song, "Dust" remains my favorite cut off this record. Why? Because it perfectly foreshadows not only his departure from the band, but also his departure from creating music and, lastly, his HIGHLY UNDERRATED legacy within this band. It's so sad. He's the only other member of this band whose lyrics are on par with Stevie's in regards to the poetic and atmospheric.

I also really dig Bob's funky "The Ghost" and prefer this first version of "Sentimental Lady" to (what would become) the over saturated California yacht rock solo version later on.

Christine's "Spare Me A Little" is like a sneak peak of her Pop sensibilities overshadowing her Blues roots. A "dry run", if you will, for songs like "Say You Love Me" and "Sugar Daddy" IMO. So much fun!

And of course how could you not adore Mrs. Scarrot's "Thoughts On A Grey Day" closing an album that's "beautiful! Just beautiful! So beautiful!" :D

Definitely a "perfect moment in time", not only for the band, but for the fans of Fleetwood Mac. It's a shame it was so short lived. It's also worth noting that this is the only platinum selling Mac album, pre-Rumours line up.

If Christine were present, Say You Will would have been a 21st century Tusk. The album really would have benefitted from Christine's presence in multiple ways

I'm not sure about that sentiment, but I do agree that it would have been more well received and hugely successful had she taken part. There's a reason why "Bleed To Love Her" and "Steal Your Heart Away" are my personal favorites off the record. It's because of Christine's presence...and the only two moments within the record that make it FEEL like it's Fleetwood Mac instead of Buckingham Nicks Part 2.

[WatchChain]

There's not question about it, 1975 through 1979 were the absolute best years of this band's output.

[~*BellaDonna*~]

1979... the year they released their masterpiece, Tusk.

[HomerMcvie]

If Christine were present, Say You Will would have been a 21st century Tusk. The album really would have benefitted from Christine's presence in multiple ways- she would have bridged the chasm in between Stevie's and Lindsey's songs, and her presence would have meant cutting out some of the dead wood present on the album.

That has always been her job. Stevie might be the star, and Lindsey the architect, but Christine's songs ARE the MF SOUND of Fleetwood Mac. Because that's where it all melds, and makes it a cohesive unit. Christine MF McVie. Period.

[Macfan4life]

That has always been her job. Stevie might be the star, and Lindsey the architect, but Christine's songs ARE the MF SOUND of Fleetwood Mac. Because that's where it all melds, and makes it a cohesive unit. Christine MF McVie. Period.
I agree. Lindsey is the architect. Mick and John are the heart but Christine is the soul of Fleetwood Mac. When she left there was star power but the music was soulless.
I believe her leaving was more profound than Lindsey leaving.

[shackin'up]

I believe her leaving was more profound than Lindsey leaving.

I'm sorry but I can't see that. The tours between 87 and 96 were a lot more mediocre and flat than the ones between 2003 and 2013. And sorry, but the albums without Lindsey were extremely poor on original ideas. Say You Will, even if you hate it, was a lot more adventurous and surprising. What is soul? Little Lies or Say Goobye? Come on.

And, to be honest, the quality of Christine's songs are really upgraded in co-production with Lindsey.

[Macfan4life]

I'm sorry but I can't see that. The tours between 87 and 96 were a lot more mediocre and flat than the ones between 2003 and 2013. And sorry, but the albums without Lindsey were extremely poor on original ideas. Say You Will, even if you hate it, was a lot more adventurous and surprising. What is soul? Little Lies or Say Goobye? Come on.

And, to be honest, the quality of Christine's songs are really upgraded in co-production with Lindsey.
I know I'm not WRONG ;)
That is your opinion and I support your right to express your opinion no matter how wrong it is ;)
This is all opinion. The Say You Will Tour was so boring and missing Christine. The Behind the Mask/Farewell tour was far superior to the Say You Will tour even with the klonopin issues.
Behind the Mask is a much better sound than Tango IMHO. I prefer the more rock n roll approach than the digital programmed music Lindsey was doing at the time.
Lindsey is a genius, one of the best guitarists, and ace producer but Christine still adds more depth to the band. The minute she joined, the band changed for the better. Without her, it was not Fleetwood Mac to me. Without Lindsey, it was still Fleetwood Mac to me. I would say the same about Stevie. She adds SO MUCH to the band but if she left, it would still be Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey does make Christine's songs better. But she wrote beautiful songs years before Stevie and Lindsey joined the band. Some of those songs are still some of my favorite Fleetwood Mac songs.
Its funny you picked Little Lies as your example of a soulless Christine song. That is a Lindsey arrangement on mostly a Lindsey solo album.
I will ask the question back to you What is soul? Why or Caroline? Come a little bit closer or Family Man? Warm Ways or What's the world coming to?
Funny cause I think Say You Will is a great album. With Christine, it would have been sensational.

[jbrownsjr]

The "Bare Trees" era holds an extremely special place in my heart. I'm a huge Danny Kirwan fan. It's a shame that his demons took over both his music and his life. But songs like "Danny's Chant" and "Sunny Side Of Heaven" are masterpieces - Snapshots of a band still valid and creative despite losing Green and Spencer, but veering off in a more fascinating and mystical direction. However, his song, "Dust" remains my favorite cut off this record. Why? Because it perfectly foreshadows not only his departure from the band, but also his departure from creating music and, lastly, his HIGHLY UNDERRATED legacy within this band. It's so sad. He's the only other member of this band whose lyrics are on par with Stevie's in regards to the poetic and atmospheric.

I also really dig Bob's funky "The Ghost" and prefer this first version of "Sentimental Lady" to (what would become) the over saturated California yacht rock solo version later on.

Christine's "Spare Me A Little" is like a sneak peak of her Pop sensibilities overshadowing her Blues roots. A "dry run", if you will, for songs like "Say You Love Me" and "Sugar Daddy" IMO. So much fun!

And of course how could you not adore Mrs. Scarrot's "Thoughts On A Grey Day" closing an album that's "beautiful! Just beautiful! So beautiful!" :D

Definitely a "perfect moment in time", not only for the band, but for the fans of Fleetwood Mac. It's a shame it was so short lived. It's also worth noting that this is the only platinum selling Mac album, pre-Rumours line up.



I'm not sure about that sentiment, but I do agree that it would have been more well received and hugely successful had she taken part. There's a reason why "Bleed To Love Her" and "Steal Your Heart Away" are my personal favorites off the record. It's because of Christine's presence...and the only two moments within the record that make it FEEL like it's Fleetwood Mac instead of Buckingham Nicks Part 2.

I was in the Vegas area this week and I drove to Hoover Damn.. For some reason, I needed to hear Future Games. Woman of 1000 years is so beautiful.

[BLY]

I do love all the era's of the Mac but I would have to say 1975-1987 is my pick. Since the release of these expanded albums It's so fresh to me again. I have a cd juke box in my home office that only plays Fleetwood Mac music (no solo stuff) and I love it all but....

[lennonfan]

I'm torn between Then Play On and the '75 album. Both masterworks, both completely different. I also love about 10 of their other albums almost as much:)

[jbrownsjr]

1970-1982 I know this has so many eras in it.. But I love all these line up changes.

12/13 great years of FMac

[michelej1]

I know I'm not WRONG ;)
That is your opinion and I support your right to express your opinion no matter how wrong it is ;)


To paraphrase the Dame herself.

Michele

[sleepless child]

My favorite era is 1975-76. I loved the white album. As a teenager I just thought they had the coolest sound. Live I think they sounded the best. Stevie's voice was amazing. They sounded so good together.

[BLY]

My favorite era is 1975-76. I loved the white album. As a teenager I just thought they had the coolest sound. Live I think they sounded the best. Stevie's voice was amazing. They sounded so good together.




I second that!

[On Ice]

As others have said, my vote is 75-76, everything about the era is just fantastic. A new fresh sounding band with incredible songwriting from 3 very distinct writers who mesh to perfection. It is also notable that the majority of Rumours was written and recorded during this era. Particularly Stevie, her voice was the best to come on the scene in a long time and live particularly it was such a forceful instrument, and showed such amazing promise for this band to really become and rock and roll classic in the vein of the other big greats in the industry. Although I really love Tusk and the Mirage era that followed, the whole performance came down a few notches from the initial stellar beginnings of the classic line up. This edge was never to return. It was not until well into the Rumours tour in 1977-78 that things began to unravel and cocaine was becoming the obvious destructive factor on this band, not really the fights and relationships that they would have us believe tore them apart, I believe it was more the drugs. The phoned in concerts, the declining quality of the writing etc really was noticeable, but the band maintained its legacy. This is true even today when so much focus is on the 75-76 period, the setlists all contain the majority of the work of this period and has stood the test of time.

[Macfanforever]

I also add The Dance was great also SYW was great too but the focus for me would be 1975 to 1987.If I was into blues rock back then I probably would add 1967 to 1987.

Welcome to the board Fleetwood Jack.

[Fleetwood Jack]

MacFanForever, thank you so much for the warm welcome!

I think this is a poetic new era of The Ledge message board, that will bear much fruit in years to come. I know I'm No Wrong.

(See what I did there?)

[~*BellaDonna*~]

MacFanForever, thank you so much for the warm welcome!

I think this is a poetic new era of The Ledge message board, that will bear much fruit in years to come. I know I'm No Wrong.

(See what I did there?)
Welcome to The Ledge, Fleetwood Jack! I look foword to seeing your contributions. I hope you like it around here!

P.S. Love the reference. ;)

[jbrownsjr]

MacFanForever, thank you so much for the warm welcome!

I think this is a poetic new era of The Ledge message board, that will bear much fruit in years to come. I know I'm No Wrong.

(See what I did there?)

Ladies and Gentlemen.. Let's give a warm welcome to Fleetwood Jack!:D

[Fleetwood Jack]

JBrownSJR, I absolutely love that reference!

[AncientQueen]

Christine MF McVie. Period.
This!
My favorite is the Bob Welch era. Some of the best musicians, songwriters and entertainers came to together and created some of the greatest music ever. The "Bermuda Triangle" Bootleg is testament of their abilities. Bob Welch is so criminally underrated, it's just sad.

[AncientQueen]

I'm sorry but I can't see that. The tours between 87 and 96 were a lot more mediocre and flat than the ones between 2003 and 2013. And sorry, but the albums without Lindsey were extremely poor on original ideas. Say You Will, even if you hate it, was a lot more adventurous and surprising. What is soul? Little Lies or Say Goobye? Come on.

And, to be honest, the quality of Christine's songs are really upgraded in co-production with Lindsey.
NOPE! By no means Say You Will is a better album than Behind The Mask. SYW is sound proof that Lindsey can't write a hook if his life depends on it and his outdated production antis ruined whatever Stevie brought to the table. And the whole thing sounds like a 80s Lindsey album, which imho is never a good thing.

Upgraded? Rather upgrated! Hear the demo for "Everywhere" as reference for Chistines ability to write a pop gem versus Lindseys messing around with it until it is so overproduced that your teeths hurt from all the sugarcoating.

[elle]

NOPE! By no means Say You Will is a better album than Behind The Mask. SYW is sound proof that Lindsey can't write a hook if his life depends on it

Second Hand News
Go Your Own Way
You Do or You Don't
In Our Own Time
Illumination
That's the Way That Love Goes
Rock Away Blind
Turn It On
Down on Rodeo
Wait for You
The Right Place to Fade


just some examples of Lindsey's clear inability to write a hook :lol::rolleyes:

[sorcerer999]

Second Hand News
Go Your Own Way
You Do or You Don't
In Our Own Time
Illumination
That's the Way That Love Goes
Rock Away Blind
Turn It On
Down on Rodeo
Wait for You
The Right Place to Fade


just some examples of Lindsey's clear inability to write a hook :lol::rolleyes:

^^^ THIS! And lest we forget "Holiday Road" - a song that is basically 100% "hooks" within both the verses and chorus! :nod:

[FuzzyPlum]

Second Hand News
Go Your Own Way
You Do or You Don't
In Our Own Time
Illumination
That's the Way That Love Goes
Rock Away Blind
Turn It On
Down on Rodeo
Wait for You
The Right Place to Fade


just some examples of Lindsey's clear inability to write a hook :lol::rolleyes:

Look no further than FM's most recent release...when Lindsey wants to be Fleetwood Maccy he can be hooky. Sad Angel is really hooky. Infectiously so. I think he just gets a bit weird in his own personal music tastes from time to time and loses focus.

PS
'Hooks' doesn't always necessarily mean good by the way.

[AncientQueen]

Maybe he managed a good song with "Second Hand News", "Go your own way" is a great song, but that has nothing to do with the melody or the refrain. The other songs on the list are - well- they prove my point.

[elle]

^^^ THIS! And lest we forget "Holiday Road" - a song that is basically 100% "hooks" within both the verses and chorus! :nod:
ha, yeah. :nod:

Look no further than FM's most recent release...when Lindsey wants to be Fleetwood Maccy he can be hooky. Sad Angel is really hooky. Infectiously so. I think he just gets a bit weird in his own personal music tastes from time to time and loses focus.

PS
'Hooks' doesn't always necessarily mean good by the way.
yup. just a most recent example.

Maybe he managed a good song with "Second Hand News", "Go your own way" is a great song, but that has nothing to do with the melody or the refrain. The other songs on the list are - well- they prove my point.
are you familiar with these other songs on the list? your post makes me wonder how you define a hook?

A hook is a musical idea, often a short riff, passage, or phrase, that is used in popular music to make a song appealing and to "catch the ear of the listener". The term generally applies to popular music, especially rock, R&B, hip hop, dance, and pop. In these genres, the hook is often found in, or consists of, the chorus. A hook can be either melodic or rhythmic, and often incorporates the main motif for a piece of music.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_(music)

[AlexD]

Ancient Queen should be kicked off of The Ledge (No pun intended) for her comments. She is wrong and should be put in jail. If I ran The Ledge, she would be in jail.

[~*BellaDonna*~]

YES. :] :thumbsup:
Ancient Queen, run for your life! They've grabbed some pitchforks and lit up torches.

[elle]

should be kicked off of The Ledge (No pun intended) for her comments. She is wrong and should be put in jail. If I ran The Ledge, she would be in jail.

well yeah we strive to be a democracy and not dictatorship! well maybe not here.

[wondergirl9847]

Well, Lindsey is my main reason for even being here, so any era he's part of is my fave.

But specifically, 1979-1982 are MAGICAL years for FM to me. :thumbsup: They were at their zenith live.

I <3 Danny Kirwan MAJOR so I love Then Play On, Bare Trees and Future Games. Just want to say a HUGE thank you to wetcamelfood (RIP, John :( ) for helping me get into Danny's solo works as well. Danny's such a damaged soul and I wish he could have gotten help when he needed it most.

[shackin'up]

"Go your own way" is a great song, but that has nothing to do with the melody or the refrain.

The only thing that proves a point in your post is this quote, with this, you prove to me that you don't know what a hook is. ( nor a melody or refrain?)

[AncientQueen]

The only thing that proves a point in your post is this quote, with this, you prove to me that you don't know what a hook is. ( nor a melody or refrain?) Oh please. Not even the critics could find a hook in this one, even Lindsey himself referred to that more than once. It's powerful, virtuos and energetic, but it does not have a great hook.

[AncientQueen]

Ancient Queen should be kicked off of The Ledge (No pun intended) for her comments. She is wrong and should be put in jail. If I ran The Ledge, she would be in jail.
Yeah, if everyone who has an opinion is kicked off The Ledge, it would be a lonely place. And - be careful, Alex, I'm fast, strong and mean :D.

I don't have anything against Lindsey, it's just that the idiotic "he made the "girls" songs better" is both mysogynist and plain wrong since 1979.

[chriskisn]

Well I'm torn, is it the BTM or Time era or the Dave Walker era? As my favourite member, I think I have to go with that Dave Walker era, or more specifically those three albums Penguin, Mystery to Me and Heroes are Hard To Find. The best one being Penguin because Mr Walker is on there. :sorry:

[chriskisn]

This!
My favorite is the Bob Welch era. Some of the best musicians, songwriters and entertainers came to together and created some of the greatest music ever. The "Bermuda Triangle" Bootleg is testament of their abilities. Bob Welch is so criminally underrated, it's just sad.

'tis true

tencharacters

[chriskisn]

Yeah, if everyone who has an opinion is kicked off The Ledge, it would be a lonely place. And - be careful, Alex, I'm fast, strong and mean :D.

I don't have anything against Lindsey, it's just that the idiotic "he made the "girls" songs better" is both mysogynist and plain wrong since 1979.

My left wing feminist (and fleetwood mac hating) wife and I have arguments over her labeling everything as misogynist

Misogynist: a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Nah I just dislike most of Lindsey's stuff because it all sounds the bloody same and he draws out the last word of every line like tttttttthhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiisssssssssssss.... :lol:

[HomerMcvie]

Nah I just dislike most of Lindsey's stuff because it all sounds the bloody same and he draws out the last word of every line like tttttttthhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiisssssssssssss.... :lol:

Now THIS is funny, because my biggest Stevie complaint is how she always has to have the last word(live). She repeats the god damned last word of every line, whether it's verse or chorus(or even on her song, for that matter!).

"Damn the light(the light, the light, the light, the light!!!!)"

Why doesn't she just STFU?

I've pointed it out to my FANATIC Stevie friends, who claim they never even noticed that she does this, until I pointed it out. She always has to have the last word. Probably why she's still single....:D

[elle]

NShe always has to have the last word. Probably why she's still single....:D

see now - THIS is misogynistic. (unlike what Ancientqueen tried to sell earlier)

i know you are kidding, but statements like this are a part of this deeply seeded male insecurity.

[HomerMcvie]

see now - THIS is misogynistic. (unlike what Ancientqueen tried to sell earlier)

i know you are kidding, but statements like this are a part of this deeply seeded male insecurity.

I'm a pretty quiet guy, and really don't like people who talk too much. ANYONE who talks too much. And her repeating the last words, is (IMO) her talking too much.

[AncientQueen]

I think it has to do with me strongly disliking the way the male bandmembers tend to belittle the archivements of Stevie and especially Christine, simply because they fear that FM could be seen as a "Girlgroup". I understand why they do it, but it still makes me mad. Christine has written and performed fantastic music long before Lindsey came into the band. His production skills (aka he likes to stay in the recording studio and play around) helped Tusk as a whole, he did some good stuff with Stevies songs on Mirage, but Tango was already outdated in 1989, he overproduced this one so profoundly that it lost all possilbe quality after 1990 in tingle and tangle.

[elle]

I think it has to do with me strongly disliking the way the male bandmembers tend to belittle the archivements of Stevie and especially Christine,

i never got that message. yes for Stevie not being a musician, but NEVER about Christine. can you give some examples?

also i'm confused how does being annoyed about someone arranging other band members' songs lead to claiming his [highly kooky] songs do not have a hook.

[jbrownsjr]

JBrownSJR, I absolutely love that reference!

I'm so glad you got it. John Courage use to bellow that!

[sorcerer999]

As usual, a simple question in the Rumours forum (what's your favorite FM era) has turned into a thread of Lindsey bashing and Stevie bashing. :rolleyes:

[FuzzyPlum]

-Did it have (in your opinion the best album), it has to have no filler or next to no filler.
-Do you think that's when they gave their best live performances, (if any).
-Were the B-Sides/Outtakes good?
-This one is just kind of a side note. Did it have their best interviews and promotional/music videos.
-Do you like the solo albums that were released from around that time. Like how Go Insane, Rock-A-Little, and Christine McVie are almost a part of the Tango In The Night era.


The best album with no filler- come on guys...Rumours
Best live performances...probably not 1977 but damn good that year all the same.
Best B side...check
Solo albums...none in 1977 (thats a good thing. no solo distractions).

Yup, the best year for Fleetwood Mac was without doubt 1977, by a country mile.


PS- sorry Fleetwood Jack, but I wouldn't consider Go Insane, Rock a Little and Christine McVie to be Tango In The Night era. If anything I'd personally align them more with Mirage (but they aren't really Mirage either- cos they're solo)

[jbrownsjr]

-Did it have (in your opinion the best album), it has to have no filler or next to no filler.
-Do you think that's when they gave their best live performances, (if any).
-Were the B-Sides/Outtakes good?
-This one is just kind of a side note. Did it have their best interviews and promotional/music videos.
-Do you like the solo albums that were released from around that time. Like how Go Insane, Rock-A-Little, and Christine McVie are almost a part of the Tango In The Night era.


The best album with no filler- come on guys...Rumours
Best live performances...probably not 1977 but damn good that year all the same.
Best B side...check
Solo albums...none in 1977 (thats a good thing. no solo distractions).

Yup, the best year for Fleetwood Mac was without doubt 1977, by a country mile.


PS- sorry Fleetwood Jack, but I wouldn't consider Go Insane, Rock a Little and Christine McVie to be Tango In The Night era. If anything I'd personally align them more with Mirage (but they aren't really Mirage either- cos they're solo)

Im going to second this. As things progressed and got more complex, the water got muddy with so many other factors. Rumours era was pristine..

[jbrownsjr]

As usual, a simple question in the Rumours forum (what's your favorite FM era) has turned into a thread of Lindsey bashing and Stevie bashing. :rolleyes:

As long as you don't bash Christine. ;)

[shackin'up]

Oh please. Not even the critics could find a hook in this one, even Lindsey himself referred to that more than once. It's powerful, virtuos and energetic, but it does not have a great hook.

See? The discjockey and Lindsey referred to that that LA DJ could't find the BEAT, or the GROOVE in the opening of the song, because of the slight disorienting, last minute added acoustic guitarstrum. That has NOTHING to do with a hook, which means that there is a strong rythmic or melodic headbanger or hummer or singalong part in the song. The whole song is overloaded with all of that. It has some of the strongest hooks in pophistory.

[mylittledemon]

For me it's 1975-1987... with 1997 thrown in.

However lately I've really started appreciating the 1971-1974 era a lot more, especially Christine's songs. :thumbsup:

[HomerMcvie]

see now - THIS is misogynistic. (unlike what Ancientqueen tried to sell earlier)

i know you are kidding, but statements like this are a part of this deeply seeded male insecurity.

I've thought about this all day...

So if I joked about Lindsey going on about "organic", and "cycles", WHAT does that make me?

~I think Lindsey's a narcissistic control freak.~ And always have. What label do I get for thinking THAT?

I think that a**hole would be the moniker that you could come up with(and maybe that's it), but I still find it odd that if you joke about a woman, you're a misogynist, but if you joke about a man, it's all fair game.

[michelej1]

I think that a**hole would be the moniker that you could come up with(and maybe that's it), but I still find it odd that if you joke about a woman, you're a misogynist, but if you joke about a man, it's all fair game.

Well, I don't think it's joking about Stevie. I think it's the part where you said that's why she is still single, as if a woman's goal in life is not to be single and it's a failing of hers somehow that she doesn't have a man.

But just saying that she draws out the last word in all of her songs is certainly not misogynistic.

And Lindsey happens to be a man (well, I don't, in his younger days he was pretty feminine) but I don't think people say he made Stevie and Christine's songs better is because of his gender. Maybe it's because he was a talented producer.

He made some of John Stewart's songs better too.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

Well, I don't think it's joking about Stevie. I think it's the part where you said that's why she is still single, as if a woman's goal in life is not to be single and it's a failing of hers somehow that she doesn't have a man.

But just saying that she draws out the last word in all of her songs is certainly not misogynistic.

And Lindsey happens to be a man (well, I don't, in his younger days he was pretty feminine) but I don't think people say he made Stevie and Christine's songs better is because of his gender. Maybe it's because he was a talented producer.

He made some of John Stewart's songs better too.

Michele

Rules I live by:

I never make fun of the one I love(when I found out that CM kept Bob Welch out of the RRHOF, it broke my fkn heart, and she was WRONG, but I never diss the Queen). And I do respect the hell out of Lindsey, even if he is a control freak. John is just John...he's always held the same position, with little attitude, a monster bass player, and I respect him for that...

The other two, well, I kind of find them to be cartoonish. Easy to mock, and often invite doing so. Stevie's repeating the last words in song, for many years, has irritated me like a grain of sand inside my shell, and it still hasn't turned into a pearl! :p

John Stewart's Gold is one of my top favorite "FM" songs ever!

[AncientQueen]

i never got that message. yes for Stevie not being a musician, but NEVER about Christine. can you give some examples?

also i'm confused how does being annoyed about someone arranging other band members' songs lead to claiming his [highly kooky] songs do not have a hook.
Well, Mick told reporters that working with Christine on the arrangements of "Behind the Mask" made him realize that she "is more than just a pretty face". There is alot of such nonsense in older Mick interviews.

What part is confusing you? A song needs a good melody, a hook or meaningful lyrics to become memorable. Both Stevie and Christine have been reliable provider for that in their work with FM. Lindsey has again and again stated that his production "made" the songs, which is in itself a way to put down the talents of his co-workers in order to make his work inside the band more important.

[HomerMcvie]

Well, Mick told reporters that working with Christine on the arrangements of "Behind the Mask" made him realize that she "is more than just a pretty face". There is alot of such nonsense in older Mick interviews.

What part is confusing you? A song needs a good melody, a hook or meaningful lyrics to become memorable. Both Stevie and Christine have been reliable provider for that in their work with FM. Lindsey has again and again stated that his production "made" the songs, which is in itself a way to put down the talents of his co-workers in order to make his work inside the band more important.

I agree completely with what Mick said about Chris...

However, I DO think that Chris would also agree, at least to some extent, with Lindsey's statement(of course Stevie would never, even with a gun held to her head!). Chris has said that LB was the best guitarist that FM ever had. But I think she meant more than that...that she was speaking of everything that he brought to the table. That he did indeed, up their collective game.

[AncientQueen]

Homer, really? It took Christine 22 years of writing one hit after the other, being the most reliable songwriter, a wonderful musician and the saving grace for the band AND making millions for Mick + helping him out of his financial troubles more than once until Mick realized that she is more than a pretty face and you agree with that statement at that time? Iwould think that he realized Chrisitne was a saving grace in his life some decades earlier and that he would give her the respect she deserves.

[HomerMcvie]

Homer, really? It took Christine 22 years of writing one hit after the other, being the most reliable songwriter, a wonderful musician and the saving grace for the band AND making millions for Mick + helping him out of his financial troubles more than once until Mick realized that she is more than a pretty face and you agree with that statement at that time? Iwould think that he realized Chrisitne was a saving grace in his life some decades earlier and that he would give her the respect she deserves.

I'm saying that Chris is on record, saying that LB is the best guitarist that FM ever had. And I don't think she meant that solely based on his guitar skills, but also his production/arranging skills.

And I would never slight Chris' contributions. She's always been my favorite!!!

[FuzzyPlum]

What part is confusing you? A song needs a good melody, a hook or meaningful lyrics to become memorable. Both Stevie and Christine have been reliable provider for that in their work with FM. Lindsey has again and again stated that his production "made" the songs, which is in itself a way to put down the talents of his co-workers in order to make his work inside the band more important.

I really think Stevie's Fleetwood Mac songs are the least 'hooky' of the three song writers. It's often Lindseys arrangements/production that give them the hook. The hook in Dreams for example is provided by the groove Lindsey gave it. Without that, it was a bit of a 'nothing' song really. Come to think of it, some of Stevie's solo songs are a bit more hooky than her FM songs.

[michelej1]

Both Stevie and Christine have praised Lindsey's work on their songs. Some people think they give him too much credit, but they have both certainly given him credit in the past.

There was that one interview where Christine was with Lindsey and said something like, "dare I say it" with him sitting right next to her, but that no one else made her songs sound like he made them sound.

And then Stevie said he made her songs great and she didn't know how to thank him, give him 10% royalties or what. Of course, people think she was being overly generous. But they have both emphasized his input a lot in the past.

Stevie might not do the same today. She said that when he left the band she learned to do things without him and doesn't need him to make her songs magic anymore. In the last 20 years, she has commanded the studio more and has a different view than she had in those early years.

Michele

[Fleetwood Jack]

O.K., I know it's strange for the author of the thread to get off topic but...

Was Christine really the one who didn't want Bob Welch involved in the whole Hall Of Fame thing? Does anyone know why? I'm really curious now.

I'm just sort of shocked by that. I always assumed it was Mick or someone else.


O.K., you may go back to your daily lives now.

[michelej1]

I really think Stevie's Fleetwood Mac songs are the least 'hooky' of the three song writers. It's often Lindseys arrangements/production that give them the hook. The hook in Dreams for example is provided by the groove Lindsey gave it. Without that, it was a bit of a 'nothing' song really. Come to think of it, some of Stevie's solo songs are a bit more hooky than her FM songs.

Yes, that is what Christine said about Dreams, that Lindsey put in the musical variation.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

O.K., I know it's strange for the author of the thread to get off topic but...

Was Christine really the one who didn't want Bob Welch involved in the whole Hall Of Fame thing? Does anyone know why? I'm really curious now.

I'm just sort of shocked by that. I always assumed it was Mick or someone else.


O.K., you may go back to your daily lives now.

The story we got, as I remember it from Bob's wife(before she got banned from The Ledge[that's a whole other story, but she was VERY angry, and wouldn't play within the rules here, so she got banned]) :

Bob filed a lawsuit against FM for royalties that he hadn't been paid.

The R&R induction came along, and Christine was the one who basically said, "If Bob is allowed to be there, ~I~ won't be". And so Bob was excluded.

Which was CRIMINAL!:mad: Especially since my favorite member forced the exclusion. :distress:

[MikeInNV]

Rules I live by:

I never make fun of the one I love....I never diss the Queen.

Careful....you don't want to sound like a Chiffonhead. :xoxo: :wavey:

[HomerMcvie]

Also, I have "copied and saved" much of the thread where Wendy discussed it(yes, I saved it all. It was VERY likely to be deleted, and that's what I do!).

If Michele says that I can post it, I will copy and paste it.

[HomerMcvie]

Careful....you don't want to sound like a Chiffonhead. :xoxo: :wavey:

She's a pretender to the throne. Speaking of thrones....

[louielouie2000]

Well, I don't think it's joking about Stevie. I think it's the part where you said that's why she is still single, as if a woman's goal in life is not to be single and it's a failing of hers somehow that she doesn't have a man.

I have no doubt though that if Lindsey were single, David would have leveled the same critique against him. I don't think it's necessarily misogynistic at all; it's a cultural thing. Something about those who chose to buck societal norms makes the masses feel uncomfortable. When a high profile male is single long-term, people start assuming he's gay. So it's the same sentiment of inadequacy, as ridiculous as that is. Even in the 21st century, we still don't know what to make of individuals who aren't interested or driven by pair bonding. Folks have to find an excuse for it, a convenient box to wrap it up in.

[bwboy]

Wow, that's so disappointing to hear, that Christine said she wouldn't go if Bob Welch did. I thought they got along- she sang on his solo version of Sentimental Lady after he left the band, after all.

I hate to say it, but it puts Christine in a different light if that's true.

[louielouie2000]

Wow, that's so disappointing to hear, that Christine said she wouldn't go if Bob Welch did. I thought they got along- she sang on his solo version of Sentimental Lady after he left the band, after all.

I hate to say it, but it puts Christine in a different light if that's true.

I think it's somewhat important to view her actions in context with what she was going through at the time. Christine was deep in her "burning bridges" phase- her marriage had ended badly, she was selling her home in LA, purging all of her possessions, leaving Fleetwood Mac, and beginning her self-imposed exile in the English countryside. I suspect she transferred her feelings of betrayal from her husband to Bob. I do wonder if she feels the same way today; I suspect she doesn't.

[HomerMcvie]

I felt the same, that it put Christine in a different light for me. However, if we can put ourselves in her shoes, how would we feel if someone were suing us, and we were supposed to appear at an awards show with them? Probably much the same, I would guess. I guess she is human after all...

[Macfan4life]

I think it's somewhat important to view her actions in context with what she was going through at the time. Christine was deep in her "burning bridges" phase- her marriage had ended badly, she was selling her home in LA, purging all of her possessions, leaving Fleetwood Mac, and beginning her self-imposed exile in the English countryside. I suspect she transferred her feelings of betrayal from her husband to Bob. I do wonder if she feels the same way today; I suspect she doesn't.
We may never know the truth but I am curious WHY the band treated Bob the way they did. From what Bob stated, he was not asking for that much. But there could be a story we don't know about. Since Bob's passing they all speak highly of him. Mick was very fond of Bob in his latest book but NOTHING about the lawsuits or the bitterness at the end. After Bob left the band supported Bob and even did his friends show in 1981. Very sad ending and we may never know the truth. I just want to know Mick and Christine's side to this because it seems so out of character. Its so odd that Stevie became his biggest friend in the years before his passing. Bob is listed on the list of "Biggest snubs of the Rock N Roll hall of fame." Ironically Stevie Nicks is also on that list.

[SteveMacD]

We may never know the truth but I am curious WHY the band treated Bob the way they did. From what Bob stated, he was not asking for that much. But there could be a story we don't know about. Since Bob's passing they all speak highly of him. Mick was very fond of Bob in his latest book but NOTHING about the lawsuits or the bitterness at the end.
They're probably not allowed to talk about the lawsuit. Bob hinted as much in his second Q&A.

I just want to know Mick and Christine's side to this because it seems so out of character.
I wonder how much say they had in who was included. While Jerry Garcia insisted everyone who was ever in the Grateful Dead be inducted, the Hall of Fame didn't extend that courtesy to Kiss, who were pissed that only their classic lineup was included, or Steve Miller, who was pissed that the rest of his band was included.

Its so odd that Stevie became his biggest friend in the years before his passing.
They were good friends for years before. According to Wendy, they rarely saw Stevie, and Bob trashed Stevie and Lindsey on here after they refused to do a benefit for Wendy (although Mick and Billy offered to play).

[Macfan4life]

They're probably not allowed to talk about the lawsuit. Bob hinted as much in his second Q&A.


I wonder how much say they had in who was included. While Jerry Garcia insisted everyone who was ever in the Grateful Dead be inducted, the Hall of Fame didn't extend that courtesy to Kiss, who were pissed that only their classic lineup was included, or Steve Miller, who was pissed that the rest of his band was included.


They were good friends for years before. According to Wendy, they rarely saw Stevie, and Bob trashed Stevie and Lindsey on here after they refused to do a benefit for Wendy (although Mick and Billy offered to play).
You are probably correct. The Eagles cant talk about the Don Felder lawsuit even though Don Felder walked away with one of the biggest settlements in rock history.

Bob did lash out in the final few years before he passed. I assume he was only going after the albums he was involved with. Do you think he gave up rights when he left? No one would have predicted how big the Mac was when he left. They were all such good friends years after he left the Mac. I believe in Mick's first book he wrote that Bob even played with them on a few Tusk sessions. I think he opened for them somewhere too. I think the Bob Welch and friends concert is one of the best rock concerts ever recorded.

[jbrownsjr]

You are probably correct. The Eagles cant talk about the Don Felder lawsuit even though Don Felder walked away with one of the biggest settlements in rock history.

Bob did lash out in the final few years before he passed. I assume he was only going after the albums he was involved with. Do you think he gave up rights when he left? No one would have predicted how big the Mac was when he left. They were all such good friends years after he left the Mac. I believe in Mick's first book he wrote that Bob even played with them on a few Tusk sessions. I think he opened for them somewhere too. I think the Bob Welch and friends concert is one of the best rock concerts ever recorded.

He may have had a point. He wrote a lot of the tunes on these albums.

1971 Future Games – 800,000
1972 Bare Trees – 1,850,000
1973 Penguin – 700,000
1973 Mystery To Me – 1,600,000
1974 Heroes Are Hard To Find – 1,300,000

[michelej1]

Also, I have "copied and saved" much of the thread where Wendy discussed it(yes, I saved it all. It was VERY likely to be deleted, and that's what I do!).

If Michele says that I can post it, I will copy and paste it.

I don't care, but the thread is probably still up in the Early Years forum. You can just link people to it.

Here it is: http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=50439&highlight=welch

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

I don't care, but the thread is probably still up in the Early Years forum. You can just link people to it.

Here it is: http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=50439&highlight=welch

Michele

Good lort, that's 16 pages of posts. Unless someone says that it's not there, I'll assume that it is! Thanks!

[michelej1]

I have no doubt though that if Lindsey were single, David would have leveled the same critique against him.

Lindsey WAS single for a very long time.

Michele

[HomerMcvie]

You are probably correct. The Eagles cant talk about the Don Felder lawsuit even though Don Felder walked away with one of the biggest settlements in rock history.


DO YOU know what Felder got? I mean, it should have been STAGGERING. Technically, by default, he was 1/3 owner of the Eagles BRAND(since Leadon and Meisner quit - giving up their own 1/5ths, respectively - and Walsh and Schmidt were never owners in the brand). I'd love to know...

[Macfan4life]

DO YOU know what Felder got? I mean, it should have been STAGGERING. Technically, by default, he was 1/3 owner of the Eagles BRAND(since Leadon and Meisner quit - giving up their own 1/5ths, respectively - and Walsh and Schmidt were never owners in the brand). I'd love to know...
In addition, Felder wrote some/most of the Eagles biggest hits. Felder was not going to allow them to play them live without his settlement. The settlement was so large that I believe Felder sold them the rights to his songs. Felder wrote most of the music and also assisted in writing Hotel California. The entire intro is Felder. Great interview of this where he talks a little about this on the Howard Stern show. He cant talk about it either but there are some subtle hints and talk. Poor Joe, he was really good friends with Felder and loved to jam with him on stage. He has remained silent because the Eagles would have tossed him out of the band which would have resulted in tens of millions of dollars lost of touring.

[TheWildHeart67]

I remember loving BTM when it came out and FM's desire to soldier on.
But when I try to listen to it now, BTM has a very late 1980's adult contemporary sounding feel and just doesn't do it for me any longer.
My fave eras are 75-87, and 97-2003. I am one of the few that adores SYW

[jbrownsjr]

Lindsey WAS single for a very long time.

Michele

I wonder why he and Stevie never got back together during that single time. I mean all the lyrics are about each other. Certainly, that proves something!

[bombaysaffires]

I wonder why he and Stevie never got back together during that single time. I mean all the lyrics are about each other. Certainly, that proves something!

too much bad blood.

she's said in interviews that things were said between them that never should have been said, and now can't ever be taken back. it poisoned the well. plus, honestly, they are just too different. opposites attract and all that, but back in the day they had the bond of a mutual goal of the success of their music to keep them together through rough spots. that's gone.

[jbrownsjr]

too much bad blood.

she's said in interviews that things were said between them that never should have been said, and now can't ever be taken back. it poisoned the well. plus, honestly, they are just too different. opposites attract and all that, but back in the day they had the bond of a mutual goal of the success of their music to keep them together through rough spots. that's gone.

I love my ex, always will. And I can still write about him. But I would never never never get back with him. It would be hell. We are better off apart. Let's give it a try.

[michelej1]

I wonder why he and Stevie never got back together during that single time. I mean all the lyrics are about each other. Certainly, that proves something!

I would laugh, but I am currently doing that myself about another celebrity couple. They officially announced their break up in July with a press release, but I am POSITIVE they are secretly together and I look for every single clue that reinforces my conviction.

For instance the guy posted a picture of himself on Instagram with a machete in his pocket and that SAME DAY the woman posted a picture of her hair being cut and the locks on the floor. Now, that means he cut her hair off with his machete right? Right? RIGHT?!

Michele

[dreamsunwind]

NOPE! By no means Say You Will is a better album than Behind The Mask. SYW is sound proof that Lindsey can't write a hook if his life depends on it and his outdated production antis ruined whatever Stevie brought to the table. And the whole thing sounds like a 80s Lindsey album, which imho is never a good thing.

Upgraded? Rather upgrated! Hear the demo for "Everywhere" as reference for Chistines ability to write a pop gem versus Lindseys messing around with it until it is so overproduced that your teeths hurt from all the sugarcoating.


I just saw this and I actually really strongly disagree with this. I think one of Lindsey's better abilities is how he writes hooks and just these really catchy bits and things in songs that make a big difference in songs. Not only in his songs but in stuff like Gypsy and Dreams, the parts added from his guitar I find to to be very essential to what makes the song.
And Holiday Road imo is the most infectiously catchy thing ever and it's essentially just hook over and over.

Maybe it's your tastes but I also disagree on SYW vs BTM, I don't love SYW but to me, BTM just sounded kind of weird, something in the production went wrong or something but to me it was just an awkward sounding album.

And I don't mind 80s pop. I actually like Tango a lot. It is what it is, I think something of the times. He doesn't do that type of sound anymore. Everywhere is such a classic tho, I think it's perfect in its final form, so sparkly and poppy.

What I think Lindsey has issues with is writing long solos. I know he's said things to suggest he knows he has limitations as a player but he's still great and I don't think you have to be Eric Clapton to be more creative and crank out a solo. He did it with So Afraid and GYOW but he tends to reuse them a lot.

[dreamsunwind]

Lindsey WAS single for a very long time.

Michele

Lindsey was never single for a long time. After the breakup with Carol Ann he hooked up with Cheri the same year, after Cheri then Anne Heche right away and then Cheri again and then after that came Kristen pretty shortly after. I always thought that was funny about him. He hops from long term relationship to long term relationship with quite short periods in between. A serial monogamist.

[SisterNightroad]

Lindsey was never single for a long time. After the breakup with Carol Ann he hooked up with Cheri the same year, after Cheri then Anne Heche right away and then Cheri again and then after that came Kristen pretty shortly after. I always thought that was funny about him. He hops from long term relationship to long term relationship with quite short periods in between. A serial monogamist.
More that "monogamist", I think about him as a "long term relationship man".

[dreamsunwind]

More that "monogamist", I think about him as a "long term relationship man".

True. I remember when Connie Hamzy talked about her...experiences with him (as well as with Mick and John). Where there's one, there's probably others. So he wasn't always a faithful little pile of hair :lol:

[SisterNightroad]

True. I remember when Connie Hamzy talked about her...experiences with him (as well as with Mick and John). Where there's one, there's probably others. So he wasn't always a faithful little pile of hair :lol:
Not to mention the occasional Stevie comebacks.

[dreamsunwind]

Not to mention the occasional Stevie comebacks.

The part in Carol Ann's book where Stevie semi-attacked her backstage on the Tusk tour and then Lindsey went to 'confront' her and then Stevie had a 'rash'...:lol:

[HomerMcvie]

Not to mention the occasional Stevie comebacks.

They're still happening, right? :rolleyes:

[SisterNightroad]

They're still happening, right? :rolleyes:
No I don't think so. I was talking about the 1976-1987 period, they both admitted that in that period they occasional had moments of being "more than friends".
There was also that daughter of a staff member that remembered of having seen them making out in a corridor during the making of Tusk.

[SisterNightroad]

The part in Carol Ann's book where Stevie semi-attacked her backstage on the Tusk tour and then Lindsey went to 'confront' her and then Stevie had a 'rash'...:lol:
Ah ah, I didn't remember that! Maybe hate sex?

[dreamsunwind]

Ah ah, I didn't remember that! Maybe hate sex?

Tusk era Lindsey was pretty damn steamy so I don't blame her. Hairy hippie Lindsey is forever my #1 but I also love Tusk Lindsey. Also the highly underrated 1978 transition period Lindsey with the super low buttoned shirts and silky jackets.

[HomerMcvie]

No I don't think so. I was talking about the 1976-1987 period, they both admitted that in that period they occasional had moments of being "more than friends".
There was also that daughter of a staff member that remembered of having seen them making out in a corridor during the making of Tusk.

I was merely "shipper baiting". :rolleyes:

[dreamsunwind]

I was merely "shipper baiting". :rolleyes:

See, that's kind of what I mean by negativity. I don't mean to sound like I'm saying you in particular are being rude or anything, so don't take this the wrong way, but when people make unnecessary snarky comments or things intended to sound condescending when there's really no purpose, it could make someone who is a shipper or whatever else the comment is directed towards feel belittled or like they're being mocked or like their thoughts/opinions are stupid. That's what I've noticed the most on this place, is things like that, which are just kind of mean sometimes and unnecessary.

[HomerMcvie]

See, that's kind of what I mean by negativity. I don't mean to sound like I'm saying you in particular are being rude or anything, so don't take this the wrong way, but when people make unnecessary snarky comments or things intended to sound condescending when there's really no purpose, it could make someone who is a shipper or whatever else the comment is directed towards feel belittled or like they're being mocked or like their thoughts/opinions are stupid. That's what I've noticed the most on this place, is things like that, which are just kind of mean sometimes and unnecessary.

I know that you're relatively new here, but you realize that there is a faction here, who do believe(or fantasize) that Stevie and Lindsey are still in love, and secretly have a relationship(or whatever).

Those people are known as (relation) shippers. I find shippers to be somewhat ridiculous, living in a fantasy world. I may or may not poke fun at them. And....no offense, I'm not seeking approval(or someone else's brand of shaming) for poking fun at them.

Hope you're having a good day.

[dreamsunwind]

I know that you're relatively new here, but you realize that there is a faction here, who do believe(or fantasize) that Stevie and Lindsey are still in love, and secretly have a relationship(or whatever).

Those people are known as (relation) shippers. I find shippers to be somewhat ridiculous, living in a fantasy world. I may or may not poke fun at them. And....no offense, I'm not seeking approval(or someone else's brand of shaming) for poking fun at them.

Hope you're having a good day.

I mean, I guess I never knew the exact definition of 'shipper' in the context here. I'd heard about those conspiracy theories and thought they were odd but I never actually saw any of them whenever I'd look at threads, so I assumed they were sort of relegated to the darker corners of the internet. They have things like that in One Direction, there's this surprisingly large portion of their fan base who thinks two of the members are secretly in a relationship. I thought 'shipper' was like someone who's just a big BN fan, you know, who likes them and their dynamic and their history and views it in a positive light. I knew the term shipper WAY before I got into FM because that's what they'd call someone who supports a certain pairing on a TV show. I used to watch The Vampire Diaries and since they had a big love triangle arc, there were 'Stefan/Elena' shippers and 'Damon/Elena' shippers.

Perhaps my knowledge of what a shipper is isn't up to speed.

Anyways that was just my two cents, it really wasn't directed at you or anything so I hope it didn't come across that way, just things like that, also when people call Stevie a goat or something, that probably hurts the feelings of the Stevie fans who love her.

[HomerMcvie]

Yep, that's where Shipper comes from. People who like to believe S&L are still in some form of relationSHIP.

Wouldn't it be ridiculous for people to believe that, 40 YEARS after they broke up, and Lindsey is married with children?

I find that faction of fans to be ridiculous, and I enjoy poking fun at them.

The goat pics are just bonus points.

[dreamsunwind]

Yep, that's where Shipper comes from. People who like to believe S&L are still in some form of relationSHIP.

Wouldn't it be ridiculous for people to believe that, 40 YEARS after they broke up, and Lindsey is married with children?

I find that faction of fans to be ridiculous, and I enjoy poking fun at them.

The goat pics are just bonus points.

Ah yes well that kind of thing is definitely a bit out there. I knew it existed at some point since I saw it mentioned somewhere, I just didn't know it was still a thing. Then I amend what I said before, I guess what I thought a shipper is is more of just what would be considered a fan.
But can you believe, there's people just like that in other things, I one time read a blog of one of those One Direction conspiracy people, and it was actually insane. They devised a theory that one of the members long term girlfriends was actually a set of triplets hired by their management. They based it off things like her hair looking different in certain photos :lol:

I do think the term chiffonhead is kind of great actually, whoever came up with it is clever.

[jbrownsjr]

I was merely "shipper baiting". :rolleyes:

Without a leg to stand on.... :lol:

[SisterNightroad]

I was merely "shipper baiting". :rolleyes:
Well, actually I haven't seen any "shippers" on this board for a very long time, at least a year, and in the almost three years I've been here (plus two during which I wasn't a member yet) I've seen maybe one person that seems to correspond to the definition of shipper you just gave.
I think that part of the fandom you're talking about has long deflated and the few that remains are out of this board.

[HomerMcvie]

Well, actually I haven't seen any "shippers" on this board for a very long time, at least a year, and in the almost three years I've been here (plus two during which I wasn't a member yet) I've seen maybe one person that seems to correspond to the definition of shipper you just gave.
I think that part of the fandom you're talking about has long deflated and the few that remains are out of this board.

So you're saying that my 13 year tenure of baiting, worked?

THANKS!!!!:angel:




;)

[dreamsunwind]

Well, actually I haven't seen any "shippers" on this board for a very long time, at least a year, and in the almost three years I've been here (plus two during which I wasn't a member yet) I've seen maybe one person that seems to correspond to the definition of shipper you just gave.
I think that part of the fandom you're talking about has long deflated and the few that remains are out of this board.

Yeah that's what I meant, I had a more different idea of a shipper based off what I'd seen on here. I knew that more extreme brand existed but I never saw them on here so I figured they weren't a thing anymore.

[HomerMcvie]

Yeah that's what I meant, I had a more different idea of a shipper based off what I'd seen on here. I knew that more extreme brand existed but I never saw them on here so I figured they weren't a thing anymore.

I just always ASSume that they're on the Stevie board...

(I never go there. Literally maybe 5 times in the 13 years I've been here.)

[dreamsunwind]

I just always ASSume that they're on the Stevie board...

(I never go there. Literally maybe 5 times in the 13 years I've been here.)

You're bored by the Stevie board? ;)

[jbrownsjr]

I would laugh, but I am currently doing that myself about another celebrity couple. They officially announced their break up in July with a press release, but I am POSITIVE they are secretly together and I look for every single clue that reinforces my conviction.

For instance the guy posted a picture of himself on Instagram with a machete in his pocket and that SAME DAY the woman posted a picture of her hair being cut and the locks on the floor. Now, that means he cut her hair off with his machete right? Right? RIGHT?!

Michele

Yes!!!!! Yes!!!! lol

[HomerMcvie]

You're bored by the Stevie board? ;)

Yes. I'm a concrete guy, and there are just too many unicorns on there. At least that's the way I imagine it being.

Actually, the few times I was there, there was just too much "Stevie can do no wrong" worship. And Homie don't play dat.:lol:

[dreamsunwind]

Yes. I'm a concrete guy, and there are just too many unicorns on there. At least that's the way I imagine it being.

Actually, the few times I was there, there was just too much "Stevie can do no wrong" worship. And Homie don't play dat.:lol:

Fair enough. There are probably some fans (of anything really) who are a bit extreme. I remember in particular, the guy that ran the Ivory Keys site, I read some of his old posts and he was particularly ardent.

The thing you said about unicorns reminds me of Waddy's Q&A that I read where he said how in the early days, he just could not put up with Stevie's lyrics and was always asking Lindsey to go out and play something else.

[24karatstevie]

The best era of Fleetwood Mac in my opinion is without a doubt the Rumours era (1975-1987)! The music was bliss, the songwriting phenomenal, and Stevie, Christine, and Lindsey's harmonies were pure perfection to my ears during this era! Hello all I've introduced myself on the Stevie board but this is my first posting here! I'm 18 and became a huge Mac fan a little over 2 years ago. Glad this board is here so we can all share the love for this wonderful band! :nod:

[michelej1]

The term shipper originated with the X-Files. I was a Mulder and Scully shipper and I've been a strong Stevie and Lindsey shipper, too, but at this point, I think whatever romantic feelings SnL had for each other are long gone. I haven't always thought that and I used to read the lyrics of new Stevie and Lindsey songs with great enthusiasm looking for references to each other and swooning a bit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping. The reason that it became ridiculous on this board is that a small contingent of people became overly sensitive and, in my view, delusional. If you said something like Lindsey missed Christine when she was away, they were enraged and would say don't try to make false equivalencies between Lindsey's relationship with Christine and his relationship with Stevie. [Which is funny, because I've raged about the media making false equivalencies in this campaign we've all just been through, LOL].

Or when we got to discussing song lyrics it wasn't up for interpretation. They'd say, "it can't mean anything else EXCEPT this ...." and I just thought it became insane. There were only a few people involved, but they were spoiling the entire topic. I loved the romance myself, but the fans were making the subject psychotic and impossible to discuss.

Michele

[SisterNightroad]

The term shipper originated with the X-Files. I was a Mulder and Scully shipper and I've been a strong Stevie and Lindsey shipper, too, but at this point, I think whatever romantic feelings SnL had for each other are long gone. I haven't always thought that and I used to read the lyrics of new Stevie and Lindsey songs with great enthusiasm looking for references to each other and swooning a bit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping. The reason that it became ridiculous on this board is that a small contingent of people became overly sensitive and, in my view, delusional. If you said something like Lindsey missed Christine when she was away, they were enraged and would say don't try to make false equivalencies between Lindsey's relationship with Christine and his relationship with Stevie. [Which is funny, because I've raged about the media making false equivalencies in this campaign we've all just been through, LOL].

Or when we got to discussing song lyrics it wasn't up for interpretation. They'd say, "it can't mean anything else EXCEPT this ...." and I just thought it became insane. There were only a few people involved, but they were spoiling the entire topic. I loved the romance myself, but the fans were making the subject psychotic and impossible to discuss.

Michele
Wow, how long has it been since that?

[michelej1]

Wow, how long has it been since that?

I would say the Shipper fever dance petered out in 2014.:laugh:

That's when the insults waged at others and the insults felt deeply (imagined offenses and slights if another poster disagreed) reached their height.

But you know, I had many delicious SnL moments myself. When I got the lyrics to Show You How, for instance, I almost died. Even more recently, when we had tapes of Seeds We Sow songs, but didn't have the lyric sheets yet and were trying to figure out what words he said and deciphering which songs were about Stevie, those were giddy times for me.

Can you imagine going to a concert and trying to write down strange lyrics you'd never heard before like "penny arcade of Edgar Allan Poe"? That's what I would do. And then we'd try to link them to Stevie songs. Sigh.

Michele

[dreamsunwind]

The term shipper originated with the X-Files. I was a Mulder and Scully shipper and I've been a strong Stevie and Lindsey shipper, too, but at this point, I think whatever romantic feelings SnL had for each other are long gone. I haven't always thought that and I used to read the lyrics of new Stevie and Lindsey songs with great enthusiasm looking for references to each other and swooning a bit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping. The reason that it became ridiculous on this board is that a small contingent of people became overly sensitive and, in my view, delusional. If you said something like Lindsey missed Christine when she was away, they were enraged and would say don't try to make false equivalencies between Lindsey's relationship with Christine and his relationship with Stevie. [Which is funny, because I've raged about the media making false equivalencies in this campaign we've all just been through, LOL].

Or when we got to discussing song lyrics it wasn't up for interpretation. They'd say, "it can't mean anything else EXCEPT this ...." and I just thought it became insane. There were only a few people involved, but they were spoiling the entire topic. I loved the romance myself, but the fans were making the subject psychotic and impossible to discuss.

Michele

Yeah I've never thought there's any romance left or anything like that, just a different kind of love that you'd feel for someone you've known that long and have been through so much with (when they're not sick of each other that is). I just appreciate their long and winding history, dysfunctional as it is.

But omg you just reminded me. I used to watch X Files reruns ALL THE TIME and I never watched the whole show but I loved it because it was so campy and the tension between them was crazy but then they did revival a year ago and I watched it and I was so let down because it wasn't nearly as good as the original series. And Scully's hair was so different from her classic red bob I was upset.

[michelej1]

Yeah I've never thought there's any romance left or anything like that, just a different kind of love that you'd feel for someone you've known that long and have been through so much with (when they're not sick of each other that is). I just appreciate their long and winding history, dysfunctional as it is.

But omg you just reminded me. I used to watch X Files reruns ALL THE TIME and I never watched the whole show but I loved it because it was so campy and the tension between them was crazy but then they did revival a year ago and I watched it and I was so let down because it wasn't nearly as good as the original series. And Scully's hair was so different from her classic red bob I was upset.

When they tour, I think it is amazing to be on stage with someone that you might have been on stage with that exact same night 40 years ago. It's something to have come that long a way with someone.

Ah, Gillian Anderson's hair. The X-Files reboot wig and The Fall white blonde color have both upset me very much this year.

Michele

[louielouie2000]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was completely distracted d by Gillian Anderson's style update on the X Files continuation. To me, the hair, the clothes, the car, all of it- completely clashed with the Dana Scully character we've all known for over 2 decades. I get it, they were showing that her character had progressed and moved on. Still, Scully was an extremely practical, understated character. Her own life and certainly appearance was always an afterthought that took a back seat to her unfettered devotion to research and science. I don't think that core aspect of her personality would have changed. But I digress...

Anyway, I'll freely admit to having been a past shipper as well. I still do dissect any new songs we get from the writers and attempt to find allusions to the other. However, I've long since stopped believing those two are in love. It is clear to me that the two are still creatively inspired by one another, though. They still mine their evolving relationship for songwriting material. And how could they not? It's been a very long and bizarre ride.

[jbrownsjr]

The term shipper originated with the X-Files. I was a Mulder and Scully shipper and I've been a strong Stevie and Lindsey shipper, too, but at this point, I think whatever romantic feelings SnL had for each other are long gone. I haven't always thought that and I used to read the lyrics of new Stevie and Lindsey songs with great enthusiasm looking for references to each other and swooning a bit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with shipping. The reason that it became ridiculous on this board is that a small contingent of people became overly sensitive and, in my view, delusional. If you said something like Lindsey missed Christine when she was away, they were enraged and would say don't try to make false equivalencies between Lindsey's relationship with Christine and his relationship with Stevie. [Which is funny, because I've raged about the media making false equivalencies in this campaign we've all just been through, LOL].

Or when we got to discussing song lyrics it wasn't up for interpretation. They'd say, "it can't mean anything else EXCEPT this ...." and I just thought it became insane. There were only a few people involved, but they were spoiling the entire topic. I loved the romance myself, but the fans were making the subject psychotic and impossible to discuss.

Michele

I know exactly what you mean. It was fun to ship Lindsey and stevie. During the Dance that insane version of Silver Springs was amazing. I felt it in my bones. And the act they put on was exactly what it was.. an act.. but with some truth behind it from the past...

Then a few Ledgies took it to a level where it became like politics and they would slant any evidence they could to serve their thesis. IN EVERY THREAD!!!

Then came the Kristen or Christine bashing. Christine's return literally turned the shippers on their heads. And they even said a few things about Carol Anne (that she read) {I have talked to her a few times and this subject came up}.

And when I called a few people out on their behavior, they would say things to the effect, "we don't mind Christine being back, we're just not interested in her..." OR .. "we know he's married with children; but, we still know that these lyrics mean they are in love." OR "We only bash Carol because of the errors in her book." (meanwhile Stevie says an untruth almost every interview because she's burned her brain out. " There is no question." No debate.. No discussion.. just shipper land.. which became really creepy.... :eek:

[dreamsunwind]

I know exactly what you mean. It was fun to ship Lindsey and stevie. During the Dance that insane version of Silver Springs was amazing. I felt it in my bones. And the act they put on was exactly what it was.. an act.. but with some truth behind it from the past...

Then a few Ledgies took it to a level where it became like politics and they would slant any evidence they could to serve their thesis. IN EVERY THREAD!!!

Then came the Kristen or Christine bashing. Christine's return literally turned the shippers on their heads. And they even said a few things about Carol Anne (that she read) {I have talked to her a few times and this subject came up}.

And when I called a few people out on their behavior, they would say things to the effect, "we don't mind Christine being back, we're just not interested in her..." OR .. "we know he's married with children; but, we still know that these lyrics mean they are in love." OR "We only bash Carol because of the errors in her book." (meanwhile Stevie says an untruth almost every interview because she's burned her brain out. " There is no question." No debate.. No discussion.. just shipper land.. which became really creepy.... :eek:

Yeah, I guess things like this happened I just never saw any of it (I used to read threads here before I joined), I always had a different idea of what a 'shipper' is. More just like a fan, you know. There are extreme/delusional people in any fan group of anything so I guess even here too.

I didn't see anything but people excited about Christine, but I did see some people annoyed at Mick because they said the reason that they had all these tours back to back was because he needs money :shrug:

Carol Ann seems a bit odd though, I saw that thing where she flipped her lid on Nicole who's always really nice to people and Nicole had to reply saying she never even said anything bad about her or her book and that other time apparently she like yelled at someone who pointed out that a picture she posted saying was her on her old couch in her basement was actually a picture of Stevie. I guess it's nice that she interacts with people on Facebook but part of me thinks it's kind of odd that she does that, idk why.

[dreamsunwind]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was completely distracted d by Gillian Anderson's style update on the X Files continuation. To me, the hair, the clothes, the car, all of it- completely clashed with the Dana Scully character we've all known for over 2 decades. I get it, they were showing that her character had progressed and moved on. Still, Scully was an extremely practical, understated character. Her own life and certainly appearance was always an afterthought that took a back seat to her unfettered devotion to research and science. I don't think that core aspect of her personality would have changed. But I digress...

Right? I never watched the show in its entirety and I know it's shallow but the appearance bugged me, the way she was she never struck me as someone who'd change her hair, that little thing just ended up making me enjoy it less.

[jbrownsjr]

Yeah, I guess things like this happened I just never saw any of it (I used to read threads here before I joined), I always had a different idea of what a 'shipper' is. More just like a fan, you know. There are extreme/delusional people in any fan group of anything so I guess even here too.

I didn't see anything but people excited about Christine, but I did see some people annoyed at Mick because they said the reason that they had all these tours back to back was because he needs money :shrug:

Carol Ann seems a bit odd though, I saw that thing where she flipped her lid on Nicole who's always really nice to people and Nicole had to reply saying she never even said anything bad about her or her book and that other time apparently she like yelled at someone who pointed out that a picture she posted saying was her on her old couch in her basement was actually a picture of Stevie. I guess it's nice that she interacts with people on Facebook but part of me thinks it's kind of odd that she does that, idk why.

No comment.. lol.

[dreamsunwind]

No comment.. lol.

I mean, like I said, I don't really know. I just remember someone asked Richard Dashut about that thing with the couch photo so someone reblogged it on Tumblr and I read it and I just thought her reaction was really weird.

For all I know she could be the nicest person on the planet.

[jbrownsjr]

I mean, like I said, I don't really know. I just remember someone asked Richard Dashut about that thing with the couch photo so someone reblogged it on Tumblr and I read it and I just thought her reaction was really weird.

For all I know she could be the nicest person on the planet.

She's a sweetheart.. and great sense of humor. If you go back and read some of the archives of that website you can get a feel for the sentiment and creepiness over there. Just the hatred for Christine alone was staggering.

Haven't been there in a long time, but some of the comments are laughable.

[dreamsunwind]

She's a sweetheart.. and great sense of humor. If you go back and read some of the archives of that website you can get a feel for the sentiment and creepiness over there. Just the hatred for Christine alone was staggering.

Haven't been there in a long time, but some of the comments are laughable.

I loved Richard's blog. He got some weird questions for sure but all his answers were really nice and diplomatic. He had such a sunshine-y attitude towards everything and he shared so many interesting tidbits and stories. I remember reading a long, funny one about when they went on a skiing trip or something and he said how Lindsey was embarrassed because he wasn't a good skier and he likes to be good at everything.

[jbrownsjr]

I loved Richard's blog. He got some weird questions for sure but all his answers were really nice and diplomatic. He had such a sunshine-y attitude towards everything and he shared so many interesting tidbits and stories. I remember reading a long, funny one about when they went on a skiing trip or something and he said how Lindsey was embarrassed because he wasn't a good skier and he likes to be good at everything.

It was kind of like that. (Richard's blog).. If he said something that didn't support LB or SN being together people would attack him. If he favored LB in a story, chiffons would attack him.

I have no doubt why he stopped answering questions. Some of the Stevie fans are worse than the shippers. They have a story in their head about how things are and that's final!! Even if you were there like Carol or Richard, if you don't agree with how it's in my head, you're toast.

[HomerMcvie]

It was kind of like that. (Richard's blog).. If he said something that didn't support LB or SN being together people would attack him. If he favored LB in a story, chiffons would attack him.

I have no doubt why he stopped answering questions. Some of the Stevie fans are worse than the shippers. They have a story in their head about how things are and that's final!! Even if you were there like Carol or Richard, if you don't agree with how it's in my head, you're toast.

And people wonder why I stay out of the Stevie forum...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not saying ALL, but some Stevie fans are just f*cking nuts.

[jbrownsjr]

And people wonder why I stay out of the Stevie forum...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not saying ALL, but some Stevie fans are just f*cking nuts.

I mean even Wendy Welch was banging on Christine's personality and I accepted it. I can see that any of these people can be beyond reproach. And then their fans are, too. Money changes people. Fandom changes people. Having an obsession changes people.

It's really just a part of life.

Hey how about that steamy Buck/McVie sexy rumour!!! Kristen is gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaddddddd...

[HomerMcvie]

I mean even Wendy Welch was banging on Christine's personality and I accepted it. I can see that any of these people can be beyond reproach. And then their fans are, too. Money changes people. Fandom changes people. Having an obsession changes people.

It's really just a part of life.

Hey how about that steamy Buck/McVie sexy rumour!!! Kristen is gonna be maaaaaaaaaaaaddddddd...

Tru dat. I've been forced to see Chris in a light I never wanted to, but that's life. Don't live with blinders!

You know, I always figured John was too hairy for Lindsey, but hey, I wouldn't put anything past them!;)

[louielouie2000]

I loved Richard's blog. He got some weird questions for sure but all his answers were really nice and diplomatic.

That's the thing I found intriguing about Richard's blogs, though... I submitted several music related questions during the height of his activity, and none were ever chosen. I wasn't bothered by this, but I found it puzzling how Richard responded to so many rude and downright pointless questions/comments instead.

[jbrownsjr]

That's the thing I found intriguing about Richard's blogs, though... I submitted several music related questions during the height of his activity, and none were ever chosen. I wasn't bothered by this, but I found it puzzling how Richard responded to so many rude and downright pointless questions/comments instead.

I think for him, he was trying to settle people down with his answers. He was so polite. And they kept getting worse. And he probably got flooded with the crazies... lol

[dreamsunwind]

That's the thing I found intriguing about Richard's blogs, though... I submitted several music related questions during the height of his activity, and none were ever chosen. I wasn't bothered by this, but I found it puzzling how Richard responded to so many rude and downright pointless questions/comments instead.

When you have the anonymous feature enabled, that allows for a lot of those questions because the people who send them are usually a minority but it's the same group sending them over and over. So he likely got a lot of weirder ones and was trying to deal with them. Plus he must've thought some of them were funny.

He did answer a lot of other great questions and offered some wonderful insight, always honest but respectful. I loved all his pictures and the little stories he would share.

[michelej1]

Right? I never watched the show in its entirety and I know it's shallow but the appearance bugged me, the way she was she never struck me as someone who'd change her hair, that little thing just ended up making me enjoy it less.

For reasons unknown, she was wearing a wig. It lent artificiality to the character and also seemed to change the structure of Gillian's face which looked longer.

Michele

[michelej1]

I mean even Wendy Welch was banging on Christine's personality and I accepted it. I can see that any of these people can be beyond reproach. And then their fans are, too. Money changes people. Fandom changes people. Having an obsession changes people.

It's really just a part of life.


Yes, having an obsession does change you and it's crazy. I mean, I think it's some kind of chemical that gets released inside of you, when your view is validated. I think if scientists studied it they would find it akin to the same effect drugs have on you.

I was on The Hollywood Reporter site listening to a panel with The Americans and Matthew Rhys said his character never loved Martha and just felt guilt over her, which is exactly how I read it and I was over the moon. Seriously, I wanted to find everyone who watched the Americans and say, "See, I told you," because whenever I read anything to the contrary I would get angry.

Of course, the writers didn't agree with what Matthew Rhys said at all and I had to debate with myself about whether the writers knew the character more than the actor who played him did and whether the character even belonged to the writers anymore or did the character belong to the actor or to me? (Which is what Chris Carter asked in the Milagro episode of The X-Files) I mean, these are the same questions I've asked myself over the years about Mulder and Scully and, in a way about Fleetwood Mac too.

The difference being that Fleetwood Mac members are real people and can't always (or shouldn't) be reshaped or reimagined as much as fictional characters can be.

Michele

[iamnotafraid]

The difference being that Fleetwood Mac members are real people and can't always (or shouldn't) be reshaped or reimagined as much as fictional characters can be.

Michele

I'm not so sure Stevie is real.

I think we have too much information on all of them
now. The internet, and Stevie giving too many television
interviews left us with no mystery at all.

We certainly can't make them what we want them to be.

[kathykit]

1970's and 80's was my favorite.

Me too! Personally love 80's more:]

[jbrownsjr]

Yes, having an obsession does change you and it's crazy. I mean, I think it's some kind of chemical that gets released inside of you, when your view is validated. I think if scientists studied it they would find it akin to the same effect drugs have on you.

I was on The Hollywood Reporter site listening to a panel with The Americans and Matthew Rhys said his character never loved Martha and just felt guilt over her, which is exactly how I read it and I was over the moon. Seriously, I wanted to find everyone who watched the Americans and say, "See, I told you," because whenever I read anything to the contrary I would get angry.

Of course, the writers didn't agree with what Matthew Rhys said at all and I had to debate with myself about whether the writers knew the character more than the actor who played him did and whether the character even belonged to the writers anymore or did the character belong to the actor or to me? (Which is what Chris Carter asked in the Milagro episode of The X-Files) I mean, these are the same questions I've asked myself over the years about Mulder and Scully and, in a way about Fleetwood Mac too.

The difference being that Fleetwood Mac members are real people and can't always (or shouldn't) be reshaped or reimagined as much as fictional characters can be.

Michele

I don't think he loved Martha. The foundation was always that he was doing his job. The guilt was his own for creating a false relationship and then having her shipped out. I think he thought, "What am I doing in this life?"

[michelej1]

I'm not so sure Stevie is real.

I think we have too much information on all of them
now. The internet, and Stevie giving too many television
interviews left us with no mystery at all.

We certainly can't make them what we want them to be.

But we can and do, because despite the wealth of information out there that we can all read and share, we still come away with very different views of the people. I mean, while I suppose there's a general consensus about the McVies, with Stevie, Lindsey and, even, Mick we can all see or hear the same interview and have very different takes on it -- takes which conveniently fit in with the pre-existing views we had about those individuals already.

Michele

[Villavic]

Rumours era. And if I extend it, let's say 75-79

[iamnotafraid]

But we can and do...

Michele

Maybe at this point my enthusiasm is
lacking to try or care to figure them
out.

As Nathan Thurm questioned, is it me?